OFF BOOK: Conversations with Casting Directors / Brett Greenstein / Episode 106

(upbeat music) My name is Elizabeth Boykevich. My friends call me EB, so that means you can call me EB as well. I am so glad you're here. I spent the last 20 years in entertainment first working in casting for theater, TV, and film. Most recently, I was the head of casting in talent while helping build two TV networks and brands at the Walt Disney Company. I am a leadership coach and facilitator. I'm a mindfulness guide, and I am a human being trying my best to human well. I dig all things around growth, creativity, curiosity, and storytelling. I realized there wasn't a place where actors could get to know casting directors and ask questions for free, so here we are. We collected over a hundred questions from actors and will be answering them alongside a different casting colleague each episode. A giant thank you to everyone who submitted questions. Links to submit a question for the podcast, and our guests can be found in the notes section of each episode. I hope this supports and encourages you on your acting journey. I love you. Keep going. The world needs your voice and your creativity. Welcome to Off Book. (upbeat music) I am thrilled to introduce you to my friend, Ann yours, Brett Greenstein. Brett and his partner, Colin Daniel, formed their company, Greenstein Daniel Casting in 2004. They are one of the most respected and prolific casting offices in Hollywood, with their focus mainly being a TV comedies. They have cast too many pilots to name, TV movies, an independent film. Some credits include reboot on Hulu. Never have I ever on Netflix, American Auto, Home Economics, Hot and Cleveland, BH and 90210, Superstore, American Housewife, and Sprung. Here we go. So thank you so much for hopping on with me, Brett Greenstein. My pleasure. It's so good to see you. Great to see you too. You like handsome as always. Oh my God, stop. (laughing) Thank you. So I gave you a little preamble of this and really want to share the wonderful people that have the casting directors in the industry. I love it. Would you share with us how you got your start? Where you grew up, what was your relationship to TV and films as a little kid and what brought you to LA and got you into the casting side of the business? I grew up in Dallas, Texas, in the suburbs of Dallas. It was always a kid that was very obsessed with TV and movies and I was a latchkey kid. So literally it was taking myself home after school and just TV was our babysitter. Until my parents got home from work. I was very drawn to TV and film from a very early age and it was what was most interesting to me. I kind of always knew I wanted to be in the business. I just didn't really know how. When I finally moved out to Los Angeles, I got a job that had nothing to do with the business and I did that for a little bit and hated it and I just waited tables and was trying to figure my 22 year old self out. And then eventually got into the business at a very low level sort of script reading, doing coverage, kind of job. I personally find it really interesting and I think the part that strikes me in this business to is all the things that usually we think have nothing to do with casting. All parts of us are used eventually in the business. So I think that's what's really interesting. I was reading scripts for this company called Propaganda Films which was a big independent production company in the '90s and they were doing really cool things, commercials, music videos, and D-films. And I eventually ended up getting a job as an assistant to the head of the company. His name was Steve Gold and he was a very big deal at that time in the indie film world. I kind of owe everything to him because he was the first person who gave me a shot. I didn't really have any experience. I didn't study film in school and have worked on a set. I think he just really liked me and saw something in me. I literally went to film school by working for Steve. And that's where I got to see how you deal with agents, how you deal with managers, how you have to deal with talent when he was dealing with a very big talent. And then the nuts and bolts of production. And I got to be on film sets and I got to be with him in various locations when we were shooting these movies. It was really a cool and eye-opening and well, life-affirming experience because it just solidified that this is what I want to be doing and I'm so happy to be in this business. He was one of the good guys. I was so lucky that he was kind and nice and invested in me and everybody who worked for him. Unfortunately, he passed away a few years ago and I'll always be grateful and thankful for Steve and for that experience. And also, the amazing thing about working at that place was that some of my best friends there and people who are still friends with today, it was like going to camp in a way, going to work with so much fun because we just all had a blast together. We were 25, we're working hard going out every night. That was just one of the happiest times in my life. I had worked for Steve for four years and we got to a point one day when we were talking about my future and I was being groomed for a film development job which are what most of the assistants who worked for him went on to do became executives in his company. I didn't really feel like that was the right thing for me and we started talking about what I wanted to do. And I said to him, I think casting is actually the most interesting, like when we're prepping these films and when you get to be in the casting process with the director, I always find that the most fascinating and interesting, I love to be in the room with you and all that's happening. So he said, well, you were about to prep this movie and maybe you should go work with these casting directors. I just hired and go see what you think. And so he'll let me leave my job for six weeks and go intern with these casting directors while he's still paid me my regular salary and hired attempt to fill in for me. And it was so generous. I went to go work for Heidi Levy and Monica Mikkelson who were partners at the time and we did this film called Nurse Betty, which was. - So what a tiny film. - Well, no, that was a big deal that movie. - Yeah, it was Morgan Freeman and Renee Zauwager and Chris Robb. - And Kenere? - Greg Kenere asks. And his Neil Le Butte's second film, he had just had a giant hit at a Sundance. So this was like his big first commercial film. It was such a great experience. And you get to see all these actors coming into the room and reading for him and I was running camera and got to witness all of it, which was so cool. They were really smart casting directors. I learned so much from them. So after that little stint ended, I went back to Steve and said, "I think I want to be in casting. I think this is really what I want to do." So stayed with him for a couple more months. Well, I'll be segueed in getting him a new assistant. I went out from there and got my first casting job. It took me a little bit to figure it out, but I was really fortunate that I was working at a great company and for an amazing man who just needed to go with my gut and my instinct and pursue what my passionate about. And I didn't have no performance. I was not a former actor. I had no aspirations or interest in acting, but it just always was something I was drawn to. - That's an incredible story. Thank you for sharing that. We've known each other almost 20 years and I never knew that story. - Yeah, oh wow, really? That's so crazy. - Yeah, I didn't know that's how you got your start knowing what you loved, winding up in an office with someone that was a complete mench. - Yeah. - And so supportive. And that was your first film and the first casting directors that you worked with is incredible. - I'm so lucky and grateful for all those years and experience with him. And all the films that we did, it just solidified the fact that I need to be in this industry and this is what I was born to do. It just set me on a path. From there I got this job working at Imagine Television, which was Ron Howard and Brian Grasier's company. When I worked for Gail Pillsbury, she was the head of casting at that time. She was my true casting mentor and taught me everything. I really knew. And that was at a studio level 'cause she was overseeing all of their television projects. And after a few years there, she partnered with Bonnie Zane and wanted to go off and have their own independent shop. I was a casting associate under them. And mostly working with Gail. That's really where I got to learn more hands-on casting in terms of being in the room with actors, the business of casting, dealing with production, dealing with agents, making deals. All that's I learned in those years working for Gail. We did some really cool things. I was very fortunate they were in office that did dramas and comedies. So I got to do a lot of both genres, which was fun. And though today I specialize in comedy, it was a great experience to be able to do all that stuff. I'm very grateful to Gail also. I've had very good bosses in my life. And I've been very fortunate and she taught me everything I know. And her love for actors and casting and the process was very infectious. And she was very kind to actors. I learned a lot of how it should be done and that you can do this in a nice way. And that we're all in it together. And we're rooting for you. And we want you to get the job. I learned a lot of that kind of attitude and that way of working from her. Yeah. When did you decide to hang your own shingle? I worked with her for, I gosh, four years, I think. And I was getting to a point where I was getting cast and director credit on shows, which was generous. But you can only do so much when you're casting associate at a busy office. And I had just reached the ceiling of how far I was able to go. A manager, a friend of mine, suggested that I meet Colin Daniel, who was also an associate at Jeff Greenberg's office. And who was in the same position that worked for Jeff for many years and was ready to branch off on his own. We had a drink. We clicked right away and both thought, yeah, let's give this a shot. We both had the same background, same age, same temperament. And they felt like the right nicks and fit. It was a little scary making that decision to we're starting our own business without any real relationships that weren't our own. And luckily, we were able to get a first job when, well, you would know this, but back in the day, ABC Family didn't really have any original programming. It was like a reruns of Gilmore Girls in the 700 Club. The very first pilot was something called Just a Phase and it was a comedy pilot about a 12-year-old gay boy in 1980s. It was written by Carter Cuffington and that was our first job. And that was our first gig and we were really just so thrilled that ABC Family was willing to give us a shot because we weren't proven cast and directors but we were hungry and would work for cheap and we're willing to work super hard and we did and and I think the project was a little bit ahead of its time for 2004 but so that was our first job. Colin and I started our company in 2004 and gosh we're on our 18th year together which is this month actually was October in 2004. We've been so fortunate we've just been going from gig to gig and working nonstop ever since that first job. You guys have such a fabulous reputation and have such a prolific office and I know you cast comedy and drama but mostly comedy. Yeah. Can you talk about why you think that happens? Was it the relationships you made? I don't know. Colin had done mostly comedies. He had done some plays here in there some film work, independent film kind of stuff but under Jeff it was mostly comedy stuff so that was really what his expertise was and it was just what was coming to us. Those were the things that we were asked to meet on and I love doing comedy. It's certainly much more fun to be in a room where we're laughing getting to hear jokes and getting to work with sides. They're way shorter. So it just kind of fell in our lap. We get to do one hours every now and then and we've done a bunch of TV movies. It's nice when that happens and we get to mix it up but for what kind of just gotten into this comedy thing and I love it. I feel like there's a special skill. We couldn't possibly define it. I'd be curious if you could. I can't of putting together a really strong comedy ensemble and jump out who's an executive at Warner Brothers also spoke to this too. A lot of producers are superstitious. If you are a casting office that can successfully put together really good comedy ensembles that's how you become in demand and that's what you guys have done over and over again for years and right now I was just out with an agent the other day and we were talking about reboot which eugenics cast and which is a hilarious cast. Can you talk a little bit about that? How is it working on that show? That show was it was a dream. It was getting to work with Steve Levitan who was obviously a huge and prolific producer who created Modern Family amongst other hits and we had worked with his producing partner before his partner Daniel Stockdijk and she introduced us to Steve. We were able to dive into it with him and it was interesting because we came together during COVID. All of it was via Zoom and we never got to meet in person and didn't have any sessions in person as that's just not how it's done at the moment and it was awesome. The script was so funny and such a great send up of the television business in actors and the writers are in their egos and neuroses. It's just been a blast to do and we've been able to pepper in so many great supporting actors and you know from the writer the writers who are on the show. Yes the writers room of the all school comedy writers are like so beautifully cast and so hilarious. I could watch those scenes all day long. I just love the young versus all generations and come in together. Those episodes have been so fun. This has just been a dream job and hopefully we get to do it again. It was just a blast. I know I'm asking you to choose between your babies but do you have a favorite project or project that stands out that you've done? Has there been something that's been like especially hard or especially fulfilling? In terms of things that we've done in the last couple of years that come to mind, I would probably I would have to say never have ever which we did with Mindy Kaling and Lang Fisher for Netflix. The pilot was huge because we did an international open cast and call which I have never done before. Mindy really wanted to find a new talent to play the lead of the show and so we did this she announced this cast and call on her Twitter and on Instagram and it went viral and we had 15,000 young ladies auditioned for the part of Davey the lead and that was nuts. We've never done anything like that so literally we are divided. Everybody in my office we divided and everybody had to watch 500 a day and then we were at the end of the day kind of go through the ones that we all liked and listen it was easy to kind of go through them in a way because half of them were wait just not age appropriate and we're not playing high school. Then couldn't do an American accent. Various reasons and we eventually kind of dwindled it down to choices that we thought were showing the producers and we found this girl in the suburbs of Toronto who was a senior in high school and it never she had done like a school musical. Never had she ever auditioned her ad. Never had she ever auditioned or done anything professionally and we flew her in she mailed it in her audition didn't get star struck or scared and reading in front of Mindy and we're like oh my god this girl is amazing how did like how did this happen and when you see actors who are so skilled and have so much experience and go to school and I'm sure everybody has bad days when they audition but this girl just had so much charisma and so much strength and confidence it was like how did that happen it's just so rare. Yeah and then we had her do a chemistry read with the woman who played her mom born a juggernaut fun. She got the part and the whole time we're thinking oh my god we're putting 10 episodes of a Netflix show on the scroll shoulders. It was never done a thing that she know how to memorize lines that she know how to where her mark is. Is she going to be intimidated by all the cameras and working with actors and various directors and I remember watching those first day of daily's and she was so amazing and so solid and sure of herself and such a pro. I'm like oh my god this is the coolest thing so I'm super proud of that show and the the cast that we ensembleed and it's multi-generational and all the diversity it was a blast to do this the hilarious episodes and I think it meant a lot it was a show that had a lot of meaning to a lot of people and it was yes and it was in it premiered at a time when we're all just stuck at home and all we had was our net fluxes and our hulies and things like that so the immediate response to the show was so huge it was so cool to see the fruits of our labor right away and to see everybody respond to it in such a positive way. We got to do four seasons of it and and that was something that comes to mind recently of something we're really proud of. I love that would you talk about the nuts and bolts of an open call for people that don't know the way I've done it in the past especially like a nationwide or a worldwide. Yeah. Did you post one small scene for people to do and then so you posted one small scene people would read that on tape and then if they showed any promise or seemed like the right type or there was something to then dig into you gave them more material correct. Exactly. I think the first round was four or five lines and I'm pretty sure it was something small just so we can get a sense of them. Obviously we needed them to do a slate with their name and where they were and tell us about yourself in 30 seconds and then get into this short little scene. Everybody in my office was going through these auditions but then we gave callbacks and then people would do an actual fully realized written scene from the pilot and those were the ones that that we would really go through and then decide who to send to producers from that. We were seeing actors that were submitted by agents and so we're going through the normal process as well at the same time and we ended up testing a couple actors who were repped and with experience along with a few that were from the open cast and call and then my tray is the one that ended up getting cast. It was very intense and it's a lot of work and a little overwhelming when you do something that's so locked and widely publicized because of the power of Mindy but it was awesome and it was super it was just amazing like the response. It was really. Six people in your office are walking up 500 tapes a day as well as still running a casting office and doing sessions for everyone else. Yeah. Yeah. There are other shows you're doing as well. I think it was at a time when luckily I feel like we were doing maybe one or two other things. So it wasn't in the same time but all hands were on board and it took our whole team to cast that show and yeah. It's exciting. It's really exciting. I love hearing that story. Thank you for sharing it. So I have some questions from actors that I'd just love us to discuss if you're down. So this one I think is actually interesting. Do you have any thoughts of how if you are an actor now and you have not met the casting office but you're going on tape and perhaps you don't have a sense of tone. How would you recommend that an actor would study? If it's a pilot you're auditioning for chances are you're getting this script. So hopefully you're getting the whole script and you're able to read it before you have to work on your sides or you're audition material for your character. So obviously that will help just so that you have like a background of what's really happening plot-wise and who all these characters are. But unfortunately in episodic casting we don't really share the scripts because they're usually works in progress by the time that we're getting to the point of casting and they're changing so much throughout the week or the weeks before they shoot. So you're just getting sides and if it's a show that hasn't premiered yet or nobody knows what it is you may not know what the tone is and so you kind of have to take a stab in the dark. Obviously it's pretty clear I think it is that it's whether it's a single camera or a multi-camera show by the way the text is actually typed out. All actors should know that dialogue lines have some space in between its multi-camera and if the lines are tighter with no space in between it's single camera and that definitely will inform the pacing and maybe the level of how large you can be with the comedy. So I think that's a good way of knowing what the tone is and then other ways are just like doing some research on the writer or seeing other shows they've done before, seeing what other shows that worked on and what the five but those shows are, it's really hard when you're not given a script. And also in these days when you're not in the room with a cast and director. So I know people are making stabs in the dark and just guessing how it should be done. And it's tricky. But for the most part, unless it's a Disney channel show where I think you can be a little bit bigger and you can be a little bit wackier and a little bit more. - How you feel? - Yeah. - Yeah, I think for the most part, always keep a grounded, make real choices. Don't go too big. That's always something we can play with in a callback or on the day, on set. How many tapes do you usually see per type of role? - For episodic, when we're casting week to week on all the guest stars and co-stars, we'll probably do 20 to 25. That's the duty now with casting on tape and not having sessions in person is that we can put out more appointments and we can go through them quicker and give more opportunities that way because we're seeing more people. Now we're able to streamline that and see more people because it's just more time-efficient. And it's more efficient for us to get through them all when we're not doing a lot of the pre-audition talking or getting to know each other. Which is a bummer. I do miss all that and I do miss getting to no act room in that way. And it is, that is an important part of the process, I believe, but with the way things are and just the state of COVID and how production is, everything has to be on tape. And so I do miss that interaction, though, for sure. - Yes. Meeting new people, but also connecting with the ones that you know, right? - Yeah, yeah. - Relationship with. - Totally. And yeah, we would see regulars and people who have been casting and auditioning for years. And it's always fun to see them again and catch up and see how they progressed. And I just, I love that. I do miss that part of it. But on the other hand, now that everything's on this being self-taped, we're just able to see more. So to answer your question, probably 20 or 25, when we're doing episodic stuff, when it's a pilot, we're seeing hundreds for a role. And we also have more time. We have usually six to 10 weeks to cast a pilot. So there's just more time to see more actors. And they're expected to see a lot more. But episodic, when you only have a week to cast an episode, there isn't that time to see more than 20 or 25. - Do you see tapes only until you find the right person or do you go through them all? - We go through them all. We watch everybody that reads. And sometimes if we feel like we're just not getting enough choices, we may do another round. - If it's something really specific that we're struggling with, whether it's an age or a type or just a look and we're not feeling like we're nailing it or the comedy, yeah, well, we will do another round. - And in that grouping too, if there's someone that you feel like you can get it, but it wasn't on tape, I would imagine that you give them an adjustment, correct? - Yeah, if they're in the wheelhouse and the look is so right, and we know that they're the right vibe of the show, they just need this kind of a little bit of adjustment, or they just need this little bit of piece of information to make a better choice. - Yeah, we totally do that. We'll send some quick notes to the agent, ask them to retap as quickly as they can, and then hopefully that second version is a little bit closer to what we're looking for, and then we would send that in with the group to the producers. That happens all the time. And sometimes we're doing callbacks and we'll via Zoom, and we can give feedback or direction right there in real time. But, you know, that's usually in a pilot situation, that's so much an episodic casting. Are we doing zooms? - Yeah. How do you feel, Brett, if you send an audition out? - And an actor thinks maybe they're not right for the role. Do you say fine, don't do the auditions? How do you deal with that? - If we put an appointment out and we get back from the agent or the actor, like they're just not feeling right for it, I totally respect that. I appreciate their honesty, and I only want people to audition for things they respond to. And if they're just can't wrap their head around it, aren't clicking with the character, don't think that they're this kind of vibe, if it's the kind of comedy that we're doing. - Yeah, that's great. I don't want them to waste time. We don't want to waste our time or our producers time. And I appreciate the honesty and know we wouldn't hold it against them. And we'll try them for something else that we think that could be a little bit more right for. - Do you find, Brett, when you're working on different genres of things, that now that we're in the self-tape world, are you looking for something different in how an actor prepares the tape or puts themself on tape for an hour versus a multi-camera? I think what this, the person that's asking this question is getting at is should my framing be different? Should my lighting be different? Should something be different? Depending on what type of show I am auditioning for. - I've never really thought about that, but I don't think it needs to be different for the different genres of television. It needs to look professional. It needs to have decent lighting. I need to be able to see your face. You need to have good sound. And I know that this whole self-tape thing has caused actors to start investing in their own self-tapping studios at home. And but listen, it's worth it. You have to have good sound. You have to have good life. I don't want you to be in shadow. I don't want you to be muffled. And it's going to help you get the job as if it looks as top quality as possible. I see self-tapes now that are like so good and so much better than what we used to do when we would have people come into our cast room. I'm so impressed with the quality of cameras and the lighting and the mics and people are stepping it up in a very big way. And I want them to know it's appreciated. And it really goes a long way in terms of I think helping you stand out a little bit. At the end of the day, it's the audition and what you're doing with the material, but setting yourself up for success with good lighting and sound is definitely key. And having somebody reading with you who's going to help, who's not going to bring you down, is not going to slow the scene down, who is hopefully at your level because having a bad reader can really sometimes tank an audition. And I know sometimes people will read with themselves or we'll take out the reader's lines that usually doesn't work well. We need to hear the scene and we need to hear people going back and forth. So do whatever you can to get somebody who's a good reader because that makes all the difference. That's so interesting that some actors would take out the other person's line, my line, your line, my line. You want to see them all. We had an actor audition another day and he took out all the lines that were not his. And he was really good and very right for the part. And we asked if he would do it again, but could he get a reader. And the response was no. Look, okay, well, that's probably not going to happen. Yeah. Well, do you want to see the actor being alive and being in the scene, whether they are speaking their lines or they're re-acting or an acting is listening. We need to hear you half of it is how you're responding, how you're taking in the information, how you're going to react to the lines that you're being given. And so when you're saying random lines without any context of what the other line is before and after it, it doesn't help make the scene pop is really doing yourself with the service. Something else I had heard Brett have you had any experience with this one casting director was saying they've also seen actors where they basically are make a teleprompter of their computer next to where they're reading the lines like a teleprompter. Yeah. And have you had experience with that? That seems really distracting and a very bad idea. No, I don't really see that much in terms of the auditions. From what I can tell, it seems like most people are off-book or trying to be. And if they have the page in their hands. Yeah, totally fine. Yeah, it's totally fine. Yeah, you don't need to be off-book. I see people do that for table reads. They'll have their lines up on the screen and you can tell that they're looking off-camera for tailoring, but that's fine. That's what they should be doing. But I don't really see so much of that in auditions. This is interesting. I don't know how I want to talk about it. So if you would just dance with me on this one because what someone asked was the business versus a personal relationship with casting directors. So if you're an actor and if you're in the business, I have actors that are friends that I met through work. I'm sure you do as well, right? Yeah. Walking that line in between someone that's young in the business that was sharing a story with me and he was saying, I guess he has luck like, "Friending casting directors on Instagram?" And a reminder for everyone that's listening. Everyone uses social media in a different way. There are a handful of casting directors that do use it as networking and to get to know new people. A lot of people do not. It's for their grandmother, it's for their best friend, it's for their partner, it's for their personal life. Anyway, this young actor was expressing frustration because he kept trying to hit up a casting director that he wants to go in for and was feeling very insulted that the person was not responding on DM. And I said, "Listen, it's different for everyone." And it's not really a question. I think I'm just trying to share that everyone uses it differently. I personally, I have a professional account and a personal account. I have actors trying to friend me on my personal account all the time and I don't accept any of them. How do you feel about that? Yeah, I only have a personal account and I really only want to use it for friendships and for family. I don't want to use it as a tool to meet actors or be contacted by actors. Especially when I don't know you, we don't have a relationship. We've never met before. That's not how I want to meet an actor through social media. And like you said, every casting office is different. Some use social media as a term of networking and are very good at it. I've seen cast managers do it. It's just not the way I want it to use it. If there is a new actor who wants to get to know your office, we're kind of old-school in a way. We still go through the male. We look at all the postcards that come through. We look at the headshots and resumes that are still male to us. For us, it does have to come to rep presentation. I'd rather be introduced to an actor by somebody who I trust and who I know I like their taste and I like their other clients and their body of work. I think it's just in terms of keeping a professional and go through reps. That's how we operate. Brett, here's a question. Do you think in person theatrical auditions will make it come back anytime soon? I don't know. What hope so? I've missed it. I really do. It feels like a long time ago and needs to do auditions like that. I hope one day we get back to it because I do miss the interaction of small talk and getting to know people. That's how we were meeting new faces because we found them on the breakdown or they were pitched to us through their agent and we were getting to know people that way and meeting them in the room. I think one day it'll get back to it. I just don't know when because we're still under these COVID protocols in our sets and productions are still demanding testing and vaccinations and masking and all that stuff and hopefully that's in the near future. There's parts of it that I don't miss. I don't get colds anymore and I don't miss having 40 people in our waiting room and we're backed up and there's tension in the air and it's running late and the phones are ringing like crazy and I've got tons of emails to return. I would think there's going to be some sort of hybrid but I'm curious to see what happens. Meaning it's going to still be self-tape and then as you get further on in the process that then there will be more in person. Yeah and I have to say about in person there is nothing better than when Colin and I are in the room with our producers and a director possibly and I'm talking about pilots but when comes in and just nails it and you've been looking for weeks and can't find that role and you're having such a hard time and then somebody comes in and just like personifies that character in ways that you never even imagine were possible. It's like such a good feeling. We're all collaborative. We're all looking at each other. Did that just happen? Did we just see like the coffee? See the lawn? Yeah. And it's such a cool feeling when we're all in unison see it. So I do miss that. I do miss that discovery and that moment where oh my god we just nailed it. We found them. The hunt is over. Especially working on comedy when something really works. This is ages ago in a comedy film but Sandra O came in on something and we couldn't breathe for 15 minutes because she just killed as she had us laughing so hard and as a casting director being in the room when an actor makes you lose it and also brings something to the role that's even better than on the page. There's nothing like it. Yeah. It's just I know it really is. It's the best feeling. It's pure joy. This is from an actor that was getting called in all the time for a particular casting office and then seems to have fallen off their radar. What is the best way to get back on a CD's radar is it okay to reach out to them with an email? Yeah. I think you got to get your agent to bug us. You got to get your raptor. It's a weather. It's an agent or a manager to remind us of you. I don't want to encourage people just emailing all cast directors to, "Hey, I'm still here. What do you have for me?" Well, for your office it would be through agents. Some offices and it's important for actors to hear this. Every office is different. Every office moves information and categorizes. Like everyone works differently. Some people are like, "Yeah, email me directly." And others prefer a snail mail something and I prefer things to come through agents. That's important for people to know. Yes. For us, it's most important that it comes through it. Reps. It makes it cleaner. Just because we haven't seen you in a while doesn't mean that there's a reason behind it. There may not have been anything that you could be right for. There's nothing wrong with having a rep remind you or if they're doing a quick pitch like, "Hey, this role that just came out on breakdown blah blah blah is so perfect for it." I'm like, "Yes, of course they are. Yes, thank you for reminding me. Let's get them an appointment." So I love that. I love when that happens when we all get a playful nudge. It's helpful because I can't remember everybody that we've seen over the years and we love so many actors and we only see so many per role. So it just, it's, you can't take it personally and certainly being reminded by an agent is the best way to do it. So. I think what some actors have asked you when a casting director says to me, "Well, keep you in mind for other things. How do they keep track of that?" casting directors have a very special brain and this is the beauty of having a partnership and you have associates and assistants in your office as well too. So it's elective brain of what Greenstein Daniels casting is that you get lots of different suggestions and everyone's watching different shows in your office. I'm sure and learning different actors. Totally. Yeah. A lot of the time we're just casting from a master list of all the actors we saw for a role that seems to be somewhat similar to a role that we may be looking for now. So we'll sometimes refer to that list and, "Oh yeah, blah, blah, blah. It was so funny in that." Or, "Oh, yeah. That person gave a great audition for that part and let's try them." And we do a breakdown practically for everything every role almost. A column I go through every breakdown ourselves and we look at every picture and check out people's resumes and watch demo reels. And so we're totally open to bringing people in for a role or giving an appointment for a role to people we don't know because if they look like they could be right or they're something in their demo reel that struck us as funny or that's exactly the right look that our producer said that they were looking for or totally down to see people who we don't know and we haven't seen before. That's kind of like what we love. We love to discover new faces. Brett, I love that you brought up master list. This is such a good thing that actors don't know. So when you work on a role for a pilot, right, a series regular for a pilot, here's the bad example would be Kig and Michael Kee's role in reboot. Then the casting office after the role is cast generates something for every single role called a master list that will literally list every single actor that was seen, discussed, pre-read, made it to producer session all on one list and that's a master list. So when Brett is sharing master list, if they have another character pop up in a pilot that has some similar qualities to that role in reboot, you look at the master list. So you're looking at all of those people that you saw and people that were at different points in their career too. Some people that were just starting. So you're working off of master lists. You're working off of agents and managers submissions. And you're also working off of your own casting director generated lists that you put together before you're even looking at the master list. So there's many different ways that casting offices are putting together and collecting who they're going to say. Exactly. Exactly. Let's start Kee because that's just a great way for us to be reminded of who we saw, who we considered, who wasn't available at that time. But because of some date issue, maybe like now they would be available. So yeah, now we could try them because they wrapped that movie that they weren't available back then. I love going through the not available list because half the time we discover somebody who wasn't available at that time and now could be. Yeah, those are Kee. We really do a lot of casting from that. And it doesn't mean we're repeating actors. It's just sometimes they weren't right for that thing. And now they could be really right for this thing. It's a good way for us to remind ourselves of who we liked before and who's we're trying again. Yes. Yes. Do you have a memorable audition story? Either something that was like favorite, it was so good or something that was like, oh my gosh, that was such a disaster. I've seen so many disasters. That could be bad day, not the right actor for the right role. So many factors in why that somebody had a bad audition and I would never hold it against them. Is there a performance and it doesn't have to be on something that you worked on? Is there a performance that you've seen recently that's knocked your socks off? I just finished this show called Bad Sisters that is on Apple. Yes. I loved it. I loved it so much. And I didn't know most of this cast and most of them being Irish. And the girl who played the youngest sister Becca just hopped every time she came on screen and just was like funny and you felt for her and there's a lot of dramatic moments and sexy moments and she's gorgeous and just made so many really cool choices. I was just like kind of mesmerized by her and I did it like a little search on her after my finished watching it. Her name was Eve Hueson and it turns out her dad is Bono. Yes. Like Irish royalty and I was like, oh my god, that's so cool. Anyways, that was just like literally just finished watching it to the day and that was an actor that I'm like, I don't know more about who this girl is. As a baby actress, she was in the nick that Sodaberg series opposite Clive Owen ages ago, but that was very dark. And seeing her in comedy, I agree. She was fabulous. That whole cast. Yeah, they're all great. And the ending was especially satisfying to me. Was it for you? Yes, it was. I kind of had a feeling we were going to get an ending like that. But I did. Yeah, a little bit. I loved it. I thought it was so well done. And I was like, oh, it's a shame. We can't really do a second season, but I don't know. Maybe they can figure something. What else are you watching? What else are you loving? I love this show industry on HBO Max, which is by no means a comedy, but I just love HX and the actors are so great. That cast is nuts. And the tone is super interesting. Yeah. And I don't know what they're saying half the time because it's the finance industry and it's so nothing I know anything about, but they're making financing sexy and intrigued by that. And lots of great young actors in there, especially the lead. She's amazing. And it's like her first job of college. I love that show. What else am I watching? I loved the Vanessa Bear. I love that for you. Yes. On Showtime. I just I love her. I just I watch her all day long and we're big Molly fans here. Molly Shannon fans. So I mean, that's such a great part for Molly and then Jennifer Lewis is amazing. And that Rogers were huge fans of. And I just love that cast and jealous of who gets to cast it. Because I just think that would be so fun to do. And I'll turn to think of things that aren't mine. How do you know what I loved? I loved the dropout on Hulu. I loved it. I thought I'm in to say Fried was brilliant and deserves all the awards and such a great ensemble cast and such of other interviews. I've seen Andrews. What a great juicy park for him. Yeah. And and all the people that weren't at Theranos and were like from McCabe Watkins to Rich Summer and just some great actors in there. So there's a couple shows that are recently. Yeah. I love those. We're in agreement about all of those. Brett as well as all the housewives of course. Of course. I'm trying to keep it highbrow. Yes. So let's say your mother calls you and said I just met a great gal and she is a daughter who's moving out there to be an actress. Do you have any advice for her? What would you say? That's a good question. I would say it's not going to happen right away. You have to be prepared to hit the ground running when you get here, but certainly you need to make a life for yourself. So that means figuring out what part of L.A. you love, where you want to live, getting a job, getting into acting classes, working with a teacher that you really respond to, putting out feelers for agents and managers. It's not all going to happen in month one. So you just need to get into mindset as this is a long haul. And it could take a year, it could take many years. It may not happen at all. I tell the young people coming to town to just pace yourself. And you have to temper expectations because it's a miracle when it happens. When you have a successful career and you can make a living at it and know that it may take a little bit, but you have to be patient. And you have to just keep moving forward, keep yourself goal oriented. But have a life also. Find outside interests outside of acting, make friends outside of acting, have a backup plan, those kind of things. I hate seeing when people put all their eggs in this basket. And they get super frustrated that it's just not happening quickly enough. It's competitive. And there's many here. I just want people to be a little bit prepared for. It's going to be a slog. Not to be, not trying to be negative. I'm just trying to be pragmatic and. Yeah, you're speaking to tenacity. Yeah. And you're speaking to your ultimate goal. And it is easy for all of us when we want to achieve something to get frustrated when it doesn't happen right away. I love this advice, especially Brett. I was recently talking to someone who had been in acting, was testing for stuff. That was like big. And then he had to stop for a while. And he said, well, I'm really committed to acting now. I'm really committed to acting now. And I said, are you in a class? Yeah. There's no. Are you in or are you in some sort of community? Are you taking classes at UCB? Do you have an acting coach? None of those things. And I don't think it speaks to making a small step every day into what you want to do. Right. Yes, be in a class. Do those things. Do what you can to support and build your life outside of acting. If you don't have a lot of dough, you can watch acting classes on YouTube. You can listen to the greats talk about what they love about the craft and what works for them. There's lots of things that you can do in the meantime that is moving towards what you want to create in your life. Every day, I meet a lot of people who are like, I want to do it. I want to do it. I want to do it. But they're waiting for an agent to discover them. Or they're sitting and waiting for a casting director to come up and say, Hey, would you audition for this and they're not making little moves every day towards creating those opportunities for themselves? Yeah, exactly. And creating your own content, writing for yourself, shooting a short film with your friends, doing a webisode, doing a play. You don't have to wait for somebody to give you the green light and start making your own stuff. And maybe hopefully one day of it could turn into something bigger. And if not, at least you have the experience and you're networking and you're building clips for yourself or real or whatever it is. You just always got to flex those muscles. And like you said, there's ways to do it that are expensive or you don't have to invest in too much. Yeah, I don't have to be working at it. Yeah, and I've heard some management firms say we're looking for multi-highfinites and that's what they're talking about. They're talking about people that are able to write their own material or directing things or doing comedy. And there's other things that you can do. No one's saying it's easy. No one's saying it's not exhausting. And as you shared that a state of what the industry is right now and how people are getting noticed. Yeah. Yeah. Brett, what made you happy this week? What made me happy? I was in Palm Springs at the beginning of the week and the weather finally cooled. It was like the 80s and we went on an amazing hike and it was so nice to be outside and it was cooler and amongst trees and nature. And it's been such a hot summer and final things are changing. And so for me, I love to be outside and I love the hike. So that was something that brought me joy at the beginning of the week. I love that. Yeah. Yeah. Brett, thank you so much for your time. Oh my gosh. Thank you for having me. [Music] I am so grateful to Brett for sharing his time and experience with us. Please keep in mind each casting office has a different preferences for how they like to receive materials. Many offices prefer to go through representatives. Some are okay with direct contact. Greenstein Daniel accepts materials through representatives only. I hope you have a delightful day today and share the love. Tell someone that you appreciate them. Tell them you're glad they exist. Thanks for listening. Please share this podcast on your socials and with any artists you think would dig it. And send me your questions. I have many more casting folks coming in to share with you all. See you next time. [Music]