Odegaard grabs winner for Arsenal in London derby | Reasons why fans should be very excited about Alonso's Chelsea | Man Utd pegged back twice at Everton as Nev questions defensive issues

Welcome one and all to the Gary Neville Podcast, which comes from North London today at the end of what was a compelling Derby between Arsenal and Chelsea. It was built as perhaps the first big signpost game of the season, Gary. What are you reading on that signpost? Yeah, I mean, look, the first thing he's just to talk generally about the match and that first 25 minutes half an hour is exhausting. It was like, you know, a game just flies by and yeah, the first game this season where you really felt you sort of in the game and everybody at home would have been excited watching it. It was a brilliant start, a breathtaking start. And when you would be a good game, I thought it was just going to be a, I said, do the night after the Arsenal Villa game that we're really looking forward to this. For some reason I thought both managers, particularly Javier Enzo might retreat and reverse back down the road a little bit and not pick Netto at right wing back and play a bit more defensive, but he didn't, he didn't do that. He went with everything and that obviously made the game a lot better and even from a Michaela at a point of view, he could have gone a little bit more solid if he wanted to maybe as a bit more experience, maybe less progressive as solace on that left hand side, but I thought as they would play, but he stuck with solace and again, solace played well in the game, which was big for him after obviously having a difficult night at Villa. So just a general approach of both teams to the game was excellent. And I think particularly worth mentioning that we know that Chelsea had been exciting in, you know, if exciting is conceding goals and being into when they're being involved in matches where there's basically lots of goals in them, then that's what Chelsea have been. And Arsenal has seen as being the opposite of that because they just control matches they've excellent defensively, but they went punch for punch in the first 25, 30 minutes and I said a couple of times it was great to see Arsenal in a game like that because we don't quite often see them like that, you know, they tend to sort of what would be struggle and lean on their opponents, don't they and then wear them down and then get the goal and maybe get another and see the game out without conceding and that's normally, I mean, it's brilliant for them and it's an excellent way to win leagues and I think they'll win the league this season through doing that, but it was good to know that in a game whereby it was a basket ball match for periods that they also could compete in that part of the game and it was really good to watch. I asked for a concern to talk that it was a basket ball match and they look such a mature cohesion as champions would sort of cohere and team they look almost like I know you never reached this point like the finished article. So would that concern them at all that they were drawn into that kind of game? I think that they would look they can look back upon it now and think probably that they enjoyed it. I'm sure their players were enjoying it at the time. I'm not sure Micheal Arthett and Gabriel Heinz and the others in the dugout will have thought that's the way I want the game to go. They'll have wanted Chelsea to be more sort of what be suppressed on counterattack and playing out. They would have wanted to just append them in a little bit more and do what they do. I mean, think about what Arsenal do. They're brilliant defensively and they get into a shape. They usually go in front and what they do to go in front is they'll be Neil Nell and then they'll need a goal and it'll be a California or it'll be a Declan Rice and they'll just shift it up again for five minutes. They'll get the goal and then they'll be able to come back and just sort of recycle it and sort of see what the other team can do. And that Arsenal do that. They did that Villa on Monday night and when they're playing in good teams today the fact that Morgan Rogers scored in the first minute and a half meant that they were dragged and pulled emotionally into a game. And I mean, I love emotional football. I think I've said that many times before. You've got to respect and you can't not respect the Pep Guardiola organised football which is very difficult to play against. The Michalata does it slightly differently but they're usually very organised in their attack. Quite methodical and they wear you down. But it's brilliant to see, particularly I think in the Premier League, we love emotional games, don't we? Where really tactics go out of the window for a period and players are moving into different areas and taking chances and it felt like that. There was a desperation to the game for 25 30 minutes and I love that side of English football and Premier League football but you don't often see it here which is a good thing for Arsenal. You won't want to see that every single week. So yeah, I just thought it was a it was a good day. Good day for both teams. I mean, a better day for Arsenal. But I said at the end of the game in the wrap up that I felt that I feel that when Chelsea's players go home tonight and Javier Lonzo goes home tonight, I thought actually Arsenal would win this game comfortably today. I thought they would win two or three nil. And that's not happened. And that's down to Chelsea's style of play getting a goal the way in which they hung in there at times when it was difficult for them and they were a threat going forward and they looked dangerous. So yeah, I think it was a we knew Arsenal were better. They have been better. So well done to Arsenal, particularly going a goal down and coming back to two on. But well done to Chelsea as well for how they've gone about it. I'm sure those Chelsea fans in that far corner will be disappointed in the Chelsea fans at home. But they'll think actually I can watch this. This is something that I can sort of live with them and buy into. Just before we go to Chelsea properly, you made Martin Herdegard your player at the game. Yeah. And last year, listen, it was captain a team that won the league and went to the Champions League final. But there was a perception he missed and football that he wasn't at his very, very best. He's had a wonderful World Cup with Norway, which went very, very well for him. How good is he now? Excellent. And look, I wonder whether I think Timbers the best right back in the league, by the way. But there is something that Herdegard Ben White and Sakahav. I'm going back in time to actually call Perez and Omri. That three on that left hand side of the pitch for Arsenal against me is the best three on a side that I've ever faced. Absolutely exceptional. Literally, you had to have eyes in the back of your head. You didn't know where the runners were coming from. There was someone dropping in. There was someone going round that way. And there was someone running in there. And it was like, what do I do? And I always remember, Sir Alex Ferguson saying to me, Gary, if you're not sure, just stand still. Because it was almost a case of, you know, you'd have Perez dropping in there. So you think you should go in with Perez. But if you go in with Perez, Ashley Cole will go round you that way. If you got to Ashley Cole, Omri, just drifting and running side. So it was, it was clockwork. And there is a bit of that clockwork element to Herdegard, Sakah and White. And actually even Havots went over in this first half and played with them. And that four down this side is where the goal came from obviously as well with Havots going cutting in. I just feel like he Ben White does run forward really well in a more predictable way than Timber. Ben White makes those overlap. And what that does it takes people to end, which opens up that space for Herdegard a little bit more. So that's one thing. Is it that basically he's back with his pals? And he actually just lives in that space comfortably. And that's no disrespect to Tim, because I think he's the best in the league as a fullback. The next thing is with a Martin Herdegard. I said so many times last season, if I've got a criticism of Arsenal in possession. And I think they're marvelous in possession the way in which they sort of what would be suffocate teams and keep them in. And Gabrielle and Celebra or Gabrielle and Conza today as it was, you know, they really push up high and they don't let you out. And I think it's brilliant to do that. Because I didn't play in teams that did that. We kept teams pending, but it wasn't through that sort of such aggressive sort of what would be movements. And Herdegard, he said to me one thing last season, he did get into a cycle of being too safe. He's a wonderful technical player. He's understanding if the position is fantastic. He's got real intelligence and football game and how to play. But if anything, he just got into that sort of little bit of a languid, you know, just playing it sideways and playing the easy pass. What I feel that he can do and is capable of is two things. One, he's capable of being sharper and receiving it on the back foot and then slotting passes through. And I think that helps him when white's running. So that's one thing. And more of that. And then making those late runs into the box more than he does. So we saw the goal today that he scored. He's just taking a gamble that something's going to happen off the back of Haberts. And Haberts have to say, because he was very close to Herdegard as my man in the match, Haberts. And I think I've called him a good performer. That might be understated. That might be not appreciating his value. He's an excellent forward, Kai Haberts. In every sense, in possession, out of possession, on the counter attack when he makes the runs when David Raya gets it, he does so many things really well, Kai Haberts. But he's not got that explosive element of Harland or that even that electricity of maybe even a, a shallow Pedro even, but he's just, he's got a beautiful repertoire about him. There's just something that he's really good. He's a really good forward. But Herdegard, yeah, he sort of makes that movement in behind. So can he get the 1012 goals, the 1012 assists that would mean that his control of a game with those output and those numbers would mean that he would be seen as being one of the best in the league. So yeah, he started the season really well. He had a good World Cup really well for Norway. But you're right, he's just getting that sort of element of positivity when he gets on the halfturn. Don't become languid in your style and sort of be safely recycling that. You can do that when you're two and three, and of course you can. And you can go and run the game, which he can run the game from that number 10 position. But when Arsenal need goals, and particularly the start of matches, look for danger, look for, look for those moments where you can impact the sort of what will be the score sheet more than he did last season. So he knows what to do. I mean, he's got the capability and the one thing I would say that I've seen in these last two games now, and I'm not sure how that's going to come, is that Chelsea were pressing towards the end of the match in the last 10 minutes and Ashton Villaworthy of the night. And I think the best Arsenal teams, the very best going back in the day with Omri, and you're talking about him looking at this team out of Omri, he became over, you just be announcing the league now, we almost are anyway, but they just lack that counter attack and that's why I think Mika Latta wanted you and Averez or a plenty of Vinicius Jr., because if you've got that spring from those deep positions that they will find themselves, and they comfortably saw Chelsea out in that last 10 minutes, they didn't feel under threat and it's 2-1. But when you're playing against a team in Europe that are exceptional, that are as good as you, just the idea that you can go and get that third goal or that second goal, Ashton Villaworthy of the night, they just missed that, that's the only thing that's missing right now, excellent defensively, brilliant in midfield, very good in attack, and they're actually to be fair, not recycling it as much as they used to, they're actually being more sort of what would be probing in their sort of forward play. But when you won goal up with 5-10 minutes to go, I think Mika Latta would be saying, how do we get that precision on the counter attack? Sol has played I think a bad pass when he could have released maybe, was it Madweki, I'm not sure. But generally that's the only thing out, the only comment I would have today for Arsenal is that they've took part in a brilliant game, they've come out on top, they've got the mentality, they've played like champions to respond to going one-nil down and well done to them, they deserve the three points. You made it very clear as well that you like Chelsea, you've enjoyed what you've seen in their first three games and you've enjoyed today's game. But clearly there's a difference, in purely purposeful terms, not necessarily critical, what have Chelsea got to do to be as good as Arsenal? Yeah, they've got a long way to go to get as good as Arsenal, but you remember Mika Latta has had, this is his sixth season, is it? Xiaomi Lanzos had six weeks, so time, they're building a new team in the sense that it's a team, obviously the part was here last season, but then quite a few have come in as well. I'm actually, to be fair, really positive about what I've seen from Chelsea just generally in this last few weeks, because I have to say that if you're spending that level of money which they have over this last few years, the least that you want to see is entertainment and you want to see, look like that'll get you off your seat, and if you're a Chelsea fan going to Stanford Bridge and you're watching Palmer Rogers in Gel Pedro, you're only people say, what was it, back in the day, that's worth the admission, it's worth the ticket money in itself, you're only some players that you just feel like you'll pay to watch, and you'll never feel short-change, I remember when sort of United had those types of players back in the day, you know, if you were now, those are United for those years from 2008 to 2011, or 2006, sorry, to 2011, for those four years that he was there at his peak, I know he was there from 2004-05, fans would just never have wanted their money back, you know, fans, I want my money back, rubbish, I think Chelsea fans over this last few years, will have thought, all that money that's been spent by the owners and what direction we're going in and what we're doing, I think they'll really get behind this Chelsea fan because I'm watching it and I'm thinking it's exciting, and there's lots of things that they can improve, the back three, they've got that sort of what would be the back three when I watch them, it's almost like the legs aren't connected to the hips and the hips aren't connected to their bodies, so almost like they're a bit like sort of all over the place, and I look at the sort of best back three probably that I ever saw, which was the event as an Italy back three with it's Barzagli, Benucci and Keelini, you know, three real giants, but they were sort of what would be, they were men, they sort of worked together as a three, they knew how to position themselves, they were great in the air, they knew how to push up and went to drop deeper, they organized the people in front of them, what Chelsea haven't got at the back in that back three at the moment, and maybe that will come, maybe they'll need to actually to be fair and recruit more as sort of they move on through the next year or two, he's having a lot already, he's just get that back three that feel solid, they don't look solid, they look like they're a little bit all over the place, so that's the main thing right now, Emmy Martin as should have saved that first goal, he's been brought in to be fair to be a personality, to be a character, but he's also been brought into make big saves as well, and actually thought that would be right, I should have saved the Morgan Rodgers one, but he was outstanding after that David Raya, but I thought Emmy Martin should have saved that first goal, he'd be really disappointing with that, so the back three is a question, and whether that can grow to be good enough, you know, for Farner, not reading the one where Harvard's done is it, you know, again, just that little bit of sort of what would be experience being wise, whether the, whether the wing backs are good enough right now, but I think Nettles done a very good job saying Hey, Aito Hatton, Hatton, yeah, on the far side, he's done OK, midfield, I think Reese J, I thought Lavia played well, he was disappointed to go off and I was surprised to see him go off, but they don't want to lose him maybe, maybe they thought OK, we'll gusto him, James, and that will be a question, look, if you've got Casado, Casado and Lavia in there, I think Chelsea can have a very, very good midfield too, but keeping them two fits going to be the question, Casado, that was standing, Lavia's an excellent player, so I think Chelsea can keep that midfield too fit, keep Reese James fit, they've obviously got that front three, they're in a good place, and I think they can finish second, third is the lowest that he Chelsea finishing, so that's a really good, you know, if you just said that to me a year ago, I mean, absolutely nowhere, I don't couldn't see where it was going this project, you know, Javier London before the game, he said about his early in this project, it is, he's trying to reestablish a bit of experience in the spine with Martin as with Henderson, Luthe Quah, Le Quah and Wellbeck, and I think it's the right way to go, you need good experience players in your dressing room, so for me, I'm as positive as I have been for three, four, five years about Chelsea, because I can think of the going in the right direction, it's not perfect, they were always going to be, I think, to be fair today on the wrong end of Arsenal, because Arsenal just had such a good team, wouldn't expect them to win today, but that was as good as I felt they could have done in the game, and I think that to be fair, they can go home tonight thinking, right, okay, yeah, we, we can take that confidence out of that defeat, and that doesn't sound right, does it, when you're at sort of the elite level, but I think people will know what I mean by it, you can sit here and be arrogance the wrong word and say, you know, it's win or nothing, that's not what football is, there's only one team wins the league every year, and there's only one team wins the Champions League every year, and every elite coming Europe in England, France, Spain, Germany, want to win it Italy, want to win it, so there is an element of making sure that you're seeing your club going the right direction, and I think Joey Alonzo, I think that these fans over there in the corner have travelled from Stanford Bridge today, we'll be thinking, yeah, I can buy into what I'm seeing, I like this, and I like watching them, sometimes you'll say, you know, when you get given that sort of, we get sent out our fixtures, don't we? I won't be in mind since some Chelsea fixtures, you know, sometimes you get a team you think, that'll be hard work, watching that game, and sometimes I'm really excited about that game because I think it'll be a good watch, and I think Chelsea will be a very good watch this season. We're just concentrating on the Super Sunday games essentially today, so the other one of those, which obviously you watched very closely, I didn't, but I know it finished it. Why not? Just United to Gary, and the first I saw of you this afternoon was moments after that equaliser and hit to that, so you've had time to take breath. What did you see in that game? I watched all of it, and every little bit of it, yeah, I stayed in the truck, to be fair, some grounds, just to explain to people, not that you're interested, but maybe you are, some grounds it's really difficult to get from the truck, we have like a Winnipeg, oh, don't we, that we can go in and watch, there's like three screens in there, I'm making two games, I'm going to watch both games with the three games, I'm going to watch three, and usually I like to be in there and not come up to the stand as early as possible, some grounds though it's difficult to do that, actually all trappers, one of them because you've got to go all the way back across the floor court to get to the actual compound, but I asked, oh, you can just walk underneath, Kat, you can get back to it, so I just thought, right, okay, I'm going to set myself in that truck, I'm going to sit down in that corner, and I'm going to watch this football, partly, well mainly, because I mean, I did fan wanted to watch them, thought it'd be a really good Super Sunday, really excited about the first game, I'm really excited about the second game, so I watched it all, but I didn't watch the last 20 seconds, maybe after, as soon as that goal went in from, making the nails, yeah, I got up, it's five to four and a thorough, I better go up and do this Arsenal Chelsea game, a little bit more miserable than I was before that, I mean, look, Manchester United can see the two goals again, that's it, from United perspective, you can't see two goals again, I mean, they're on track to concede 76 goals, if they carry on, they won't do, they won't concede 76 goals, but the one thing that I think needed to happen beyond the transfer window with the questions that have been asked about the defence was that Manchester United, well, one needed to win today, but secondly, they couldn't concede goals, and then maybe some people lazily could say, oh, they were two spectacular goals, I mean, that last goal was a really bad one, it's a really bad one because they're on that far side, you know you've got Jack Grealish down on the left, and I'm making sure I'm getting the players right, dogoo for some reason, chase is out and press is isolated press. Santos then doesn't go over behind him and stays back and it just gets played past Dorgu. It's a massive mistake that. And it's a massive mistake from Dorgu but he might have been told to go and press by Santos. So if Santos I don't believe he will have done. It just strikes me with a lot of lack of communication. So Dallow I think went off and Euro comes on at right back. He's narrow and tucked in and deep as are the other back four players and Masrao is at left back. So United has to change their back four again during the match. And you're all coming on at right back. I'm sorry that just for me highlights the problem because he plays so now. If you look at what happens on that last goal, forget the last bit. The last bit, the keeper can't do anything about it. It's a special strike. There is a lot happens before that goal goes in the back of Manchester United's net. When you're playing against the team, it's 2-1. You're away at Everton and there's a goodest in part then but obviously at the Ildic Hildekens in Stadium, you've got to push up. You've got to make sure that you don't get players going sprinting off and doing stupid things. Dorgu sprints forward. The ball gets played past them and Everton just drift down that left hand side so easily. Santos doesn't get across and then when Santos doesn't get across really quickly enough, you're always deep and narrow almost playing like a third, stroke fourth, narrow center back, waiting for the ball to go into the box. So they could have stopped it at source. So that's a major real error in the lead up to that and I was screaming as it happened because you know full well you're going to get the ball pumped into your box. So you're going to get a shot against you. You're going to get a team being desperate in the last few minutes. So you have to make sure that you're organised and the United weren't organised in that last couple of minutes and teams think they've got a chance against them. And I look, I've said this before, I played in certain United teams for a period where teams felt they had a chance against us at all, Traffin and teams felt they could get out of us and that we weren't quite good enough defensively between that period between Schmeichel and Van der Saar. We weren't amazing defensive. So I've played in the team that wasn't the top tier defensively. Now I've been there so I'm not sort of looking at it from a point of view of not having an experience of this. And what it does, it just means that teams, well teams don't give it anyway, but teams don't even, but they also have that feeling that we can score against you. And that's a horrible place to be at. When you play against Arsenal, it's almost a shock when they concede. It's almost a surprise. I didn't feel that Chelsea were going to score in that last ten minutes. So for Manchester United today to concede a first goal, which means that they're sort of thinking, I thought they were a little bit complacent and I was saying it after the first goal, 52 minutes. I thought they were a little bit complacent. I thought they were a little bit, they lack that killer instinct in that period up until the 80, whatever minute it was, whenever it's unequalised. And then lo and behold, they react again. And they score a great goal with Shaw's little flick into the sort of middle and sesco heads it down. And you think, okay, well, but you didn't have that killer instinct at 1-0. It's going to kill the game and they could have gone and killed the game in that 1-0 to 1-1 period. But they were a little complacent on it and didn't have that ruthless instinct at all. And I was saying it. I was saying, you're going to get a shock here because you're not watertight at the back. So you're always going to concede a goal and they did. And then anything, you're right, it's 1-1. But to get back in front and then not organise properly when you're back in front. Look, the goal in the end is absolutely exceptional. I thought Laman should have saved the first one. But the second one, no chance. But yeah, that will be the headline off the back of today. And it just puts a bit of pressure on the United because they've got obviously sitting next week, European games start now in midweek. And for Michael Carrick, what he's trying to build is a trust, a trust in his team, a trust with the fans, a trust that he can repeat what he's done in the end of last season. And that was a game that definitely should have been won today. Everton weren't at it at all in that first half. But the first half United with a better team and just didn't, again, didn't have that killer instinct up top. And certainly from 1-0 to 1-1, they'd, to be fair, let Everton back in the game. So yeah, just not really full throttle when you've got a team down, putting them away. And then just this liability of conceding goals. And I don't think it's going to go away. And that is my big fear that I don't think it's going to go away. I think conceding goals is going to chase them and hunt them down the road. And I don't know how Michael deals with it because he's got his best back for on the pitch. I don't know why Luke Shaw went off with five minutes to go. Maybe hopefully he's not injured. I don't know why Dallow went off with five minutes to go. I don't think, and I've seen it twice now, they've been, both of them have come off in two games. I don't think I ever, I mean, to be fair, Ruben Amorim and Eric Tenhaag used to change their back for us a lot as well. You can't be changing your back for you just, you know, I mean, I mean, if you've got in cap here to come on for Call of Fury, maybe you can, but Manchester United have got a back for of Shaw, Dallow, McGuire and the Sandral Martinez. And they've not got much behind that. So you can't really change your back for it one, they'll down or two, one down. So Michael Carrick will probably tell us why maybe they're injured, Dallow and Shaw, or maybe you just thought he could get away with it in the last five, ten minutes and save them for midweek. I'm not sure, but it's not ideal. And that is a concern for Everton. It was a great day for them in the sense that, you know, they didn't play brilliantly well, but the fans could have turned at a certain point, but they didn't, they just kept going and they get a special goal in the end with an equalizer. Okay, just one more issue. And I was walking out of Pell City last evening and I saw a dad with his little boy, and he turned to his boy and he said, if asked to concede a goal tomorrow, we will be the only ones yet to concede in the Premier League whole city. Seven points out of nine, I think they'd want to hear from that Gary Neville. What he's got to say about them. Yeah, and I watched large parts of the game. I was in London last night and got down a little, I didn't watch all of the games. I got down a little later, but competitive, compact, aggressive, giving their all. I mean, why wouldn't you get, you know, if you play for whole city in the Premier League, play for whole city any time, you've got a fight like crazy. You've got to give absolutely everything and to be fair, when you look at them play, they're just so determined. I mean, every team I think is determined, every player's determined, but it seems to be that extra bit of determination. When you talk about the old classic of not having the maximum talent, but just making up for it with endeavour and spirit and fight, and that is what we're seeing with whole, a group of players will look absolutely so eager just to do everything they can to seize this opportunity that they've got to play in the Premier League against these clubs that are spending hundreds of millions of pounds and compete. And yet brilliant to watch. And they could, the chance later on, we just didn't get, you fancy them as well. There's one before that. I think I had a wasn't there as well. Yeah, and you're just thinking, oh, my God, I just remember, I nipped someone, I just heard it and I run back around the corner in my room to see it. I thought, oh, my goodness, how early Matt Bernie, how have you not scored that? Because that would have been the classic perfect start, wouldn't it? We'd do a whole at the top of the league with Manchester City and Arsenal. That would have been a great story. We've said last season, didn't we? That teams going back down from the, going back down that get promoted from the championship is not helpful for us. We obviously have this belief in this country that the Pyramid doesn't fail us and that everybody can beat everybody. We say that, don't we? But is that really what's happening in last season with Leeds and Sunland coming up? It was really good for the Premier League and we want a whole, and you want Coventry and you want Ipswitch to shock a few because we all think that they could go down and hold so far. It's a great start very early, but they've got that competitive instinct and that fight that fans to be fair for the football club sees the bare minimum and they've got it in abundance. And Chelsea, hold next weekend, which will be fun and we'll be back with Manchester Derby. Yes, Manchester Derby next weekend. Yeah, it won't be fun. It's never fun. Well, unless we see what happened last season, which scored last season, it was a, was it in Burma? Couldn't you? Can't remember now, has it been brewing off and then there's played someone through it? I do remember, I remember, I remember celebrating as the ball went, because I was at, to be fair, I wasn't expecting Michael Carrick's first or second game. You remember it better than me. It was his first game, I think. It was Michael Carrick's first game, and I remember thinking, yeah, it was Michael Carrick's first game. I think he won and then came here to ask the week after I think won. So, yeah, he's got special memories of that game, Michael Carrick. And it obviously was a big factor in a journey to get in the job. So I actually wouldn't surprise me next weekend if Manchester United go and win that game. It really wouldn't. I didn't think at times they're suited to being backs against the wall, a little bit underdogish. And then they can go out, because I mean, look, that front four will score goals. I'm not surprised that Manchester United have scored two again today in that game. And we'll look forward to next Sunday. See What it brings fantastic. Thank you Gary. Thank you