Octavia Spencer on Her 15-Year “Overnight Success” & Defying Hollywood

Today, I'm sitting down with the incomparable Octavia Spencer. She's a producer and Oscar-winning actress, and now she's starring in an executive producing the new Amazon Prime video series "Rider Die" alongside Hannah Wattingham. An action comedy about friendship, secrets, and just how far you'll go for the person you love. It's the kind of role Octavia once had to fight to even be considered for. And now, she's in a position to help decide which stories get told and who gets the chance to tell them. So today, we're talking about the journey from being underestimated to knowing your worth, the friendships that carried her along the way, and what it means to use your success to create opportunities for others. So, let's get into it because baby, this is Kiki Palmer. And baby, this is Octavia Spencer. Today's episode is brought to you by our presenting sponsor, Starbucks. Fall's most iconic beverage is here. The Starbucks Pumpkin Spice Latte is back to kick off the season. Order now on the app. Come on out, girl! I'm so happy to see you. Look at you, I'm fishing in red. I think those peppers that you smell so good too. Well, thank you, I showered today. How you doing? How's life right now? You've been in town, have you been relaxing? Has it been busy? I have been on tour for this project for a few weeks and then I took a couple of weeks of sanity off and went to the Grinidines and just got myself all the way to church. That way, it was the Grinidines. In the Caribbean, Mystique, this beautiful island near St. Vincent. Ooh, fabulous. That was wonderful, darling. And so when you said this tour, you were talking about your press tour for Ride or Die. Yes, I'm so excited for the trailer looks, I know we're going to talk about it, but that trailer looked too good, girl. Thank you, I did it, I did it all. But I feel like you always are finding these unique creative projects to do. You know what I'm saying, like that, my girl? We know we got to stop by mine and support, but that movie, girl, it gave us gifts for a lifetime. Thank you, because you know the opportunities are usually not as varied for us. And so we have to seek those different types of projects out. Yes, so it's serious because Hollywood has archetypes. I mean, theater, film, it all has archetypes, but like the interesting part is to take those archetypes and put them in a new surrounding and a new invite. Like you can, you know what I'm saying? I like to put them in a blender and let things get chopped up and whatever lands in the new foam is what I get to be. I want to taste the new flavor. Okay, let's start with this pre-show pull-up. I do it with everybody. Now, what is your zodiac sign? Do you know? Gemini, but I'm a double Gemini. Gemini Sun and Moon. Oh my god. So you get double the crazy for half the price? That's my. So do you feel very Gemini? No, I don't think anybody feels crazy. Just feels normal. And then what about your rising? Your rising is different. I'm Sun and Moon. Sun and Moon and then do you know you're ascendant? I don't know my ascendant. I wonder what it is. I think it's my scary people because if I'm a Gemini, Sun Moon and a ascendant, there is some workery. That is hilarious. What is your love language? My love language is food. Okay. Food and music. I can't separate the two. Girl, you ain't never lied. I went on a date recently and this guy ordered the food for me and it was all good. No, it was happy his ale. First of all, the fact that he ordered and I'm like, I can relax and then everything was good. Okay. I was thrilled beyond belief. So music, what's your music? Are we talking about a jazz club? Are we talking about? I like everything. I'm that person. I like jazz. I like hip hop. I like country music. I like me just every time I'm dancing up in that country. Okay, take me to a country play. No Beyonce has brought us all the way back. Got us in our booths. And a booth in that. And some of us shouldn't be wearing belts. I'm thinking, I can only do this in my house with this cowboy hat. A mess. Too good. Okay. What is something your friends roast you for? That they get on you, that they catch you about? Well, because I'm the first one to ask for a dinner party. But I'm never the one to host it. And I always, I used to bring a bag salad before they were a faux pas. I live for the word faux pas. Yeah, you hear me? That's my middle name. faux pas. faux pas. That is hilarious. So you come up to the dinner party, but you ain't got the right stuff. No, and I always, always have my, uh, to go, uh, tupperware. And there's nothing, that's a faux pas. No, no, it ain't for me. It's not for me, but no, I, but you shouldn't. Well, I've been knowing these people now for 30 years. So they know I'm going to show up with my to go stuff. That's right. Nobody eats leftovers the way I do. Okay, and you know what? No one's going to love you the way I do leftovers. You know what I mean? And you're not going to eat all this. No, you're not going to eat all this. So let's just cut the, let's just cut it. Exactly. Um, okay. What is one movie you could watch over and over again? I do. I'm excited to hear that watch, um, the Godfather. The God, that's a long one. I, you know why? Because it is a lesson. You learn a new acting lesson. That one scene. I don't know if this is the which Godfather this is, because there's also so many. But the one where the brother is going, uh, getting ready to shoot him all up like that. I can't stand all that. I love revenge. I hate that, uh, the fam family, you know, power, greed, all that stuff sends me into a tizzy. I get to attach to the characters. I do too. Let me tell you something. But that tells you that we've been doing our jobs if we mourn those characters. The girl. If we, and that's one of the reasons I want to watch again, because the ones that die, the only way you get to see them again is if you start over. You got to keep watching them. You got to keep watching. It's so true. Yeah. It's so true. What, what do you think it was that you first learned you had in love for acting? Was it watching movies and something like this? You know, going to see it's show or something? I would say, you know, we used to watch TV all the time when I was little. And I, I, we didn't have, uh, money for television all the time. And especially one that had a remote. So, um, I had six siblings. And at one point during the week, one of us had to stand next to the TV to change the channel. Yeah. And on one particular night, and I, I, I want to say it was the Oscars, but it could have been the Emmys. It was my turn to change the channels. And everybody was all dressed up and sparkling and beautiful. And they won prizes. And of course, that just made me happy. I said, what are they doing? And what, what do they get the prizes for? A lot of prizes. The prizes. The prizes where you have to work hard for those prizes. Okay. And, and my mom didn't try to deter me from that, but it definitely made an impression, just watching all of those artists in a room. Yeah. Some of them being rewarded, some of them not, but all of them being beautiful and talented. Oh, I love that. I think that's the first time that I've heard that association with the awards in that way. But it is, it is an interesting thing. When you do look outside of whatever it means to win or to lose, it's just, we've all collected here or something that we all find to be so important. And that we're excited about sharing with each other. There's something beautiful there. Okay. So, I mean, 30 years in this business? Yeah. The only time I think about it is when I walk into a dark room and have to stop and walk slowly. So I don't, so I don't fall down. Otherwise, it just feels the same. It feels like no time is bad. But you know very clearly when, when. When I used to produce, yet again, another produced and starring in, yet again, another really cool and interesting project called "Rider Die." I mean, I watched the trailer. It looks so cool exciting. I mean, you know, you could tell us about your character, Debbie. I mean, she's accomplished. She's opinionated. She's funny. It really just a messy modern mom that discovers that her best friend is a bounty hunter. That was a sad sin. A sad sin. She said, "So tell me like, how did you, how did you, what was the beginning of this? Did you find like the very rough version of the script or did you find the writer after you had the idea?" It was all divine. So I, my development deal is with Paramount. And one of my favorite producers, Barbara and Andy Musgeti, their brother, sister team. They were developing this with, paramount and I got a call one day for my agent that said hey they're going to pitch you this idea just because you're in a deal with them you don't have to say yes if you like it you know just in non-committal and and and we'll take care of the rest yeah yeah I was like guys this is not my first rodeo I know not to get married on the first date and sure enough I heard the pitch and I went ahead and did it I got married on the first day oh it was that good yeah I hadn't heard a pitch that was that compelling I don't think ever I've heard good good it is really tough to get a really great pitch you know it is they had been developing it with the the show creator Tessa Coates for a while and so then to have Barbara Muscetti I love the last name Muscetti okay they sound like they some assess they are assesses when it comes to film and television project brilliant taste so I always trust the taste of the people that I'm in business with and the the pitch was there and then it was about okay well who do you see as as your partner yeah and we all immediately said well Hannah and then a few weeks go by we get a meeting with her and she does exactly what I did of course her team told her not to say yes yeah and of course she was leaned into the she said we marry over that zoom and at the end she said of course guys I think I mean oh my gosh have we ever seen you play British well if you watch episode four I have to squeak a British accent now I want to now I want a movie where you are literally somebody that goes into cover and soft crimes here's the type of British about my British accent it encompasses all of the accents I'm posh I'm a chimney sweet actually that's the undercover layer for the movie we find out during the midpoint of the film she's not British she's not British she's actually she's actually from the hood no exactly y'all there's too funny okay so you guys get in bad you do this this amazing project I mean what can we expect I think you are doing action obviously I think at the outset people were expecting it to be just a hard comedy yeah but when you put actors in situations where one person is with holding a whole side of themselves I might guess it it's not all going to be funny games there's gonna be some anger and there's going to be betrayal there's going to have feelings of betrayal and we have to play all of that out and let the let the comedy come as it should but just like life I mean think about one day in your life is one day in your life purely comedy no no no even if you tried to say you know today I'm just it's just going to be horror one day in your life isn't purely horror one day in your life isn't purely drama you have all of those elements which is why horror is my favorite genre because it encompasses all the others girl when you were just saying that it was making me think about how reason why we all loved my son was because it was scary but then also she was fucking hell but then also it was like these kids do need a mind these kids my actually do need her yeah so it's it's so true I'm seeing that consistency and even if we go all the way back to the help the help had those same things too where it was like sad but then it was also like I love these you know it was like aha and it was like you know what we good yeah it's all of those ranges of emotions where it really doesn't just it's not just one genre exactly so I love that I really do love that how would you describe your process of be come you know producing and putting your own movies together because I think this is something that you know it's a lot more difficult than one what might imagine it is so difficult I mean I say from my own experience I don't you have a project that you've been kicking about for at least 12 15 years you got a dust that old chest not off it's taking it back around you know it's so true when do you what are the signs because there's this big thing around packaging you know everybody's like you got a package everything right what are you you feel like your top three things or two things even that let you know that something's going to come through that's going to go through the other side the most important thing this is why I love writer directors I love them with my whole being because you can like a project but if you get the wrong take on it and the wrong writer writes it or gets it adapts it and it's not what you envisioned it's not any indication of what the yeah source material was it's like we are back at square one so it is always finding the right writer and sometimes the right writer hasn't graduated college that's that's real sometimes that's real the right writer has been put out to pasture because they've reached a certain age sometimes the right writer doesn't know that they have it within themselves to create that project so I believe in the good Lord's time you know get it out there and if it's something that is extremely meaningful to you then you wait you you wait and and it'll get to the right people what you just say right that I feel like that's something that I've learned with age you know I mean some of these things you I feel like in my earlier to be in my 20s I would be like you know I you always feel like you're running out of time or you feel like there's you know you're not you're putting pressure on yourself because you're not doing enough but it's so true that some things just come with time with patient with age what do you feel like are some of those things for you now at this time in your life that have only come with with age being good and recognizing that I'm good at certain things because we can listen to a lot of ambient noise right yeah and that ambient noise is only there to distract you only there to deter you from what you know that you're capable of and so now it's like is that noise let me turn it now what were you saying how great I know it but also you know but but and then again you also need to know there's a discernment that you have at a certain age where you know this isn't good for me I need to let this go so a lot of things happen and come with age a lot of things you know yeah something else that you said an ARP is you you know success isn't about what you accumulate it's about who's sitting around your table which ties beautifully with what you were just saying so who's around your table maybe it's not the people right but the type of person who who are at your table the type of people around my table are the type of people a all of my siblings okay you know you know you know family you get to love each other warts and all and sometimes it's very warty yeah sometimes it's just too many you are too funny you know what I mean it's like a lot of words today but they love you warts and all and they will be there for you regardless of of of need and then I would say the same thing of my friend family yeah I want you there if you're only there when the sun is shining I don't want you there I need you there when it's a flood and we all know I'm I can only I need somebody who's gonna throw the rope out because we know that if I turn over on my back I might be going under so you know what I mean yeah you know exactly what you mean because so many people are there I was just talking about it with my mom so many people are like I'm with you I'm with you I'm with you because you're risking it all mm-hmm the moment that it means that they have to risk something you know it find you know they're suddenly scared yeah you know but they're ready for all the shine when it's time for things to shine so yeah I could agree with you more yeah and I want creatives yeah around my table because it gets it all out there if nothing is being invented you know if all we're sitting around it's just just rewatching the Godfather nobody else is creating anything you know I love the Godfather but can we do something out even if let it be a re-innovation yeah stepfather stepfather something something that is so true I need the creative minds too because also it it ends up not being you that keeps bringing something to you know and I think that everybody is creative to some degree but it's like are you open that door are you open in that door living in that space exactly and nurturers don't you want people who nurture not just the children around us but the children within us girl and I feel like I'm not saying that guys aren't nurturers I'm not saying that but I feel like guys to be nurturers but I need my girlfriends to be but that's what I I realized that in my life that's why I've always been like women women women women women anywhere I could find because of that that nurturing energy you know what I'm saying it's like women have such this amazing quality the ability to just be able to really see you. - I think if guys nurtured the boys within their friend group and if women continue to nurture the girls within our friend groups, oh my God, how great the world would be. - Yeah, nurturing is necessary. It's not just something we need when we're kids. - Get a dad somebody, get a mom somebody. - Yeah, dad your friends, dad. - Dad. - Dad, I'm dad. - Dad, I'm, let's coin that. (laughing) - Mama, new madam, new movie. (laughing) - There we go, creating again. (laughing) Okay, you came up with a lot of dope people too. I mean, we're talking Allison Janie, Melissa McCarthy, Tate Taylor. I mean, when nobody had tons of stuff going on, but y'all had time, you know what I mean? Where did you spend your time doing? How did you guys get to create a group? - Well, Melissa McCarthy and her husband, Ben, have always been creatives. They have always written, and they've always-- - I just love that duo vibe. - Let me tell you something, I love that we're neighbors. I love that they know that I like getting dressed for work, but if I'm around the house, I don't, and they call it a sweat pant night. (laughing) They're like, hey, we're making burgers, it's sweat pant night. And if they're having other people over there, let me know, it's not a sweat pant night. But they are the most inclusive friends when it comes to work. They always create work for their friends to, so their friends can eat. Our friend Jordan Black also, he creates, so that his friends can eat. But I think that is born out of the groundlings, like people who do-- - You went to groundlings? - I took their-- - One of their workshops. - One of the workshops, yeah. - Wow, I didn't even know that. - It's invaluable. - I mean, you were so funny. You were really so insanely funny, and it's, again, I think sometimes we don't really, in case somebody does stand up, sometimes you don't really realize that their drama is also coming from their humor. So it's so crazy that you actually had some formal stuff with comedy, 'cause I'm like, yeah, you're just hilarious. - You have to take groundlings. - Oh my God. - I took Tony's supposed to class, and it was the-- - That's supposed to? - Yes. - Boulevard. - Boulevard, I really want to know those people. Tony, let me help you. (laughing) - Can you hook me up with his opponents? - Okay. - Yo. - I need a pass to get down to the public opinion, right? - Yeah, definitely needed pass. - Right. - Wow, that's incredible. So anyway, so it came from, you feel like that, was that the era, or was it just the community of when you get into a comedy space like that? - A comedy community like that? - I think it was, so my friend Stephen Rogers who wrote "Itanya." - I love that movie. - We got Allison Janney and Melissa McCarthy and all, anybody from the groundlings that you know, I got them from Tate, Tate was in groundlings, and then I took groundlings after, after those guys. - Yeah. - But Stephen Rogers, huge writer, and I call him my bankroll, (laughing) back in the day because he banked rolled all of us. Honestly, he wrote, you know, "Hope floats." He wrote "Catinly a Pold." He was our rich friend who loaned us all money when we were broke. He told me I was the only one who paid him every cent back. (laughing) And I did, because I didn't know if I was gonna need to borrow it from him. (laughing) - This is just what we call recursive. - Exactly, exactly. But I've always been, I mean, always had, you know, Josh Hopkins, I think it's so crazy and cool. When we hear these names, it's so important. I think especially anybody watching wherever they are in their career right now, especially if they feel like they're not getting the visibility that they want or they feel they deserve. It's like, it always seems like, oh my gosh, it's so crazy you all knew each other. Like, but at the time it wasn't that. We were all just, you know, it's like, obviously, you're so happy that you all have become who you become. But I think it's so interesting to know that like, people also were just like, building community, being friends and it was what it became, you know? - Exactly. - And that goes back to that time piece. - And the only difference is, there we were just being paid to create, you know, they made the same, like right now, I'm doing a movie with Ben and Melissa that they wrote. It's just what we've always done. What we've always done. - And I think it's so important to say that, 'cause again, and Issa Rae talks about this a lot too. She talks about, instead of going trying to go, whatever you think up is, go to the side. Go to the person that build and create with that person that's already in the trenches with you, because you already actually have everything you need. And whatever accolades or whatever visibility that's gonna come, it's going to come. Just be, just do the work. - Do the work. - Do the work. - And do good work and good work will warrant that, will warrant success and will warrant accolades. But sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes you just have great work out there, you know. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - An impact. - An impact. - You know. - That's most definitely true. - I feel you. - So you grew up in Alabama. You're one of six. - One of seven. - One of seven. Oh my gosh, one of seven. Big family. What was your role? In the household and what got you in the most trouble? - Talking. (laughing) ♪ Baby, it's this kicky pola, yeah ♪ - You know what just came back into my life like it never left? (laughing) The Starbucks pumpkin spice latte. And the second I saw it on my Starbucks app, I knew fall was just around the corner. The first sip took me right back to that fall feeling. And I remember how much I, L, O, V, E, this part of the year. I can't wait for the leads to have their whole moment. And the air to finally have some personality to it. When I actually wanna be outside instead of rushing past everything, that's what I'm excited for. It's funny how a walk I've done a hundred times feels brand new just because fall is almost here. That's the thing about fall rituals. They're familiar in the best way. The iconic Starbucks pumpkin spice latte falls right into that category for me. Same drink, same me. But somehow it feels like a whole moment every single time it comes back. So let this be your sign to slow down, soak the season in and grab a Starbucks pumpkin spice latte as fall begins. Celebrate fall with a return of the iconic pumpkin spice latte. Order now on the Starbucks app. Taste like fall. I think I just found our next family trip and it's Asheville, North Carolina. Yes, September is when the leaves start turning and I am building this entire trip around a porch. I need to find a home on Airbnb with the real porch because I can already picture mornings out there with coffee and evenings watching the mountains change color while my parents pretend they're not getting emotional about it. (laughs) I'm putting the River Arts District on the list too because watching glass blowers work is like the kind of thing that my sister will talk about for years. And that's already asking if Asheville has good barbecue which yes, obviously that's so locked in. We're also doing the built more one afternoon. It's this gorgeous, gilded age mansion right outside of the city that makes you feel like you've been transported to Versailles. I wanna watch my parents walk those gardens like kids again. So what I'm saying is find a place to stay on Airbnb in Asheville this fall. I'm building the whole trip around that porch so we can get that magical home away from home feel and I'm not even sorry about it. - Talking, talking when you get you in a lot of trouble. - Yeah, would. - Well, you know, loose lips sink ships and I had older sisters and they were trying to be sinking some ships. Well, they didn't want you to sink a ship. - Yes, of course. - And you was telling a damn business. - Too much talent. - Oh my gosh, not the title tale. - But you don't know that you're telling. - Yeah, 'cause you just wanna have something to talk about. - You just wanna have something to talk about. - You know, oh, such a such, that cute boy came, that cute boy came over. You know, oh, so now we know loose lips. - Dang, now are you the baby girl? - I'm the next to the youngest. I have a younger sister. - Younger sister, so all girls? - Six girls, one boy, the boy is the oldest. - Okay, that must have been fun having an older brother. He must be quite a few years older than you. - Yeah, you were almost a second. - Okay, great, yes. - Wow, so it was great growing up in the house together in Alabama. Remember about growing up in the South like that? - I can't tell you, I feel bad for people who don't have siblings and a bunch of them, because I certainly have people who know every aspect of my life, every aspect of my upbringing. And they're the only people who know your specific history. - Yeah. - You know what I mean? - I feel that, I mean, I imagine everybody, I guess feels that way about their family or their siblings or whatever, but I feel like, for me, I've grown to appreciate even more because I started performing so young. And like, there's some of the only people that I will ever know when I meet now that didn't know me first as an entertainer. And that's like invaluable to me, 'cause they remember the me that wasn't yet perceived. And so it's like, the siblings, like, I mean, we was up late night playing a shark, like it's just like, all the silly things you would do. - Oh my God, so monopoly, none of them want to make a deal with me. 'Cause they know soon as I get that building, it's going out. - Yeah. - And I'm collecting every dime. - Every damn dime. - Unless I go broke, you will never pay rent. - Guys, I mean girl, that is literally what they do to me. I hate it that way my family didn't want to sell me nothing. - We need to get more monopoly games out there to teach people about business. - Okay, learn how to collaborate. - Collaborate. - And collect. - Learn how to collaborate and collect. - Period. - Yes. - Now you said your mother taught you in your sisters that there were no limitations on your lives, except the ones you placed on yourself. - Obviously you've lived your life that way and done the incredible things. What would you say is that is most like your mother about you? - Well, the fact that I moved to Hollywood right after college with $3,000 to my name, one of the old TVs, the big ones. (laughing) - Yeah, we know. - It had a booty on it. - It had a booty and a belly. (laughing) - Yes, I know that with some of the screens I had to cover you. - I had that curvature. (laughing) And it was too big to fit in my trunk. So I had it on the back seat and I had it covered with clothes. 'Cause I didn't know if I was gonna be able to afford a TV. Remember how those TVs used to cost a lot of money. - Thank you. - Now all these smart ones are cheap. (laughing) - 'Cause they probably make 'em so quick. - Yeah, you know. - It's another story. - But I, oh man, I, when I look at where we are today in time and technology, would I have been the same brave child that I was when I moved out here? - I don't know. - I don't know. And what, I think this is, this is don't where we go with this because are you saying that maybe seeing as much as sometimes the kids do can be a little bit of what paralyzes you to afford it? - I think that's why a lot of this generation is feeling-- - Empathetic. - I think that they have, they're exposed, the whole world is in the palm of their hands. - Yeah. - And we had to go out to discover the whole world or we thought it was the whole world but it was actually just down to the corner store. - Yeah. - But when you can access anywhere, everywhere and the way it's curated, it makes it appear to be the most exotic, the most exciting. And then there's just little o' you and you're just sitting in your basement, making content. I think it does a number and a quite a-- - So it does two things that I'm here. First of all, there's not that curiosity breeds excitement period. When you don't know, you don't have expectations, you're willing to go out into search for something because it doesn't even feel like bravery, it just feels like you exploring. That's lost when you get too exposed to some things. And then again, that expectation piece, once you go somewhere with a certain expectation, I'm moving to California with $3,000 in my pocket. I don't see anybody online, did it, and they became the number one tick tocker. When you go and that isn't happy for you, now you feel like you're a failure. - Preach. That's really-- - And then everybody has this truncated amount of time that this is supposed to happen. I still say I became an overnight success in 15 years. - Yeah. - But in the 15 years, I was working as an actor, I was learning, I was taking classes, three to four days a week. There was never a dull moment. And I thank God and Jesus and the entire council. - Yes, council. - The entire council of saints that I knew nothing about the internet as it is now because it literally, it robs you of that curiosity. - And it makes what you said at the beginning of this conversation which is turning down those distractions, it makes that 10 times harder. - Exactly. - Because I feel like I had a little bit of both. Like I came up before social media was really a thing. And then like my career expanded in the middle of social media becoming a thing. And I feel like I was constantly tuning that radio. And it was like, it became, like it can breathe so much anxiety. - It's so much anxiety, right? It becomes an appendage. - Oh my gosh, oh my gosh. It becomes this added layer that really doesn't let you rest. And I was actually just having this conversation with myself the other day where it's like how much time have I been giving to opinions that don't deserve it? I'm not talking about the fact that one thing about me, I think I used to always be happy about is I'm gonna do what I'm gonna do regardless, right? And I don't care what anybody says. I don't care anybody. I'm gonna always do what I'm gonna do regardless. And so I always felt like, yeah, that was my strong suit is that I listened to only my voice. But what about the hours and hours and hours of perspective shifting that I've done, being in what somebody else said about me? Why am I even, why do I even, why do I even, my gift of point of view seeing that's reserved for my performing, it doesn't deserve to be in this space where I'm now sitting in the position of what this troll thought, or what they said about me. Now I gotta see the POV, POV is trash. - Think about the trolls sitting under those overpasses, underpasses, wherever they sit, okay? It is their job to spit vitriol, to humiliate. It is, how often do you see a person in the comment section, you know, spreading light and joy, like being, being Betty White. - Yeah. - You know, if you can't be Betty White, don't be in the comment section. - That's right. - That's right. - Because everybody, no matter what you think is going on about what is shown on the internet, everybody has some type of crisis in their life. Everyone. - Everyone. - So don't be, don't be a troll, be a Betty White. - Be a Betty White. - I love Betty Resta, because we need that Betty. - Betty, right? - We need her. You've talked about struggling with dyslexia, but that a teacher in your school noticed that mysteries, is what kind of got you excited to read. What do you think that she was able to pick up on in that moment of time, like, that let her know it was mysteries, and why was it mysteries, you think? - I think that that was something that she perhaps gleaned early on, because she had had so many kids. - Gleaned. - I love it word. - Gleaned. - Yes. - Gleaned. - Very much for my British side, you see. - Gleaned. - I'm keen to gleaned. (both laughing) Oh my God. - I do think it's because it was, you know, numbers, she'd done it a lot. - Yeah. - The one way to keep a child engaged with a narrative is to have something in it for them. And if there's a clue in it for you, and you get to be the hero that solves a mystery. And so that was the thing. And of course, as much as I wanted to throw the books down, I'm so sick of this book. And then you just keep reading because you don't know what a clue. And then they start to pop out. And that's how I actually navigate my life now. A friend in this room, I had to use some deductive reasoning because they thought they had lost their wallet. And I, it was your hand friend if you're in the room. It's Chad. - It was so, it was your other girl. I literally looked over there, she said no. (both laughing) - Chad Ludwig, I'm name dropping. But no, I do it all the time. I have to, it's just, it's how I, I see life, I see. - What a fabulous teacher. And so yeah, this interesting thing of how you see life is like solving these elements. - Yeah, it's in the details. - It's in the details. - Everything's in the details. - Wow. It must be some Virgo in her chart. - It must be a Virgo rising, Virgo landing. - I'm gonna say Gemini's a really good. Virgo landing is crazy. - I landed on a Virgo. (both laughing) One or two times. - I'm howling. - So this was cool to me. 'Cause this is another one of those things where it's like, you and Virgo worked together before. When you were 17, you did the long walk home and it came to Alabama and you somehow talked your way into entering on the project. So we got to talk about that. - I somehow by calling every single day for about eight weeks. And then dropping by the look at, oh honey, I was that girl. - And they didn't take you to jail. - No, they didn't take me to jail because they were hiring. (both laughing) - I dropped by y'all so high right now. - That is inspiring. - It's so inspiring. - And so what were you, were you PA on there? Like what would you do? - I was an intern. - You were an intern. - Like 40 years old. - What did they have you doing? They would you like in office. - Okay, so our production office was a giant warehouse. It was a furniture store. Giant. And they put all the department heads had desks there, all the departments. So you walk in and you can see the whole of production. It was like this giant bullpen. And I worked in extras. And I made a hundred dollars a week. I was so rich, making a hundred dollars a week. And I'll never forget when Patrick Swayze came to town to visit whoopee right before they did ghost. My sister was in love with Patrick Swayze. And I met him and I said, "Will you please call my sister "because she's not gonna believe me." And we call, I call, I call, and she's on the other line. And she's like, "Hello?" And I, before I can get it, I gotta go 'cause she was talking to some boy. And she hung up and he said, "I'll call back." And we call back and she's like, "Hello." And she hung up, "What the hell?" She never got to talk to Patrick Swayze. So I get home. home and it was all over the news that Patrick Swayze had been in town. And I said, "Yeah, he called you." And she was like, "What?" And so now, if I call her from set, she's always "Hold on, hold on." Hello, it's somebody on the phone. I'm like, "No, I am never going to call you again." I know she died. Devastation. That's happened to me with my Sims before because of this day of technology. I do a video. Yeah. But damn, she is. Well, I did have Blair. I always, we make a joke. And I was just about to say Blair underwear. I almost said, they call him, they call him Blair underwear. Blair underwood my friend and colleague. Oh my gosh, Blair. I love him so much. I had him move a message, but I say out of that business. Did you ever say this movie that Blair did call a "sunder"? No. Oh my gosh. I think that might be a rewatch. And once I watch it, I have to rewatch it. It's kind of like on that fellow traction tie vibe. Girl, Blair is a fool in that one. That's a good way to have to see a son of a man. I love that Blair underwear. That's fabulous. Don't don't see it. It's not me, Blair. It's not me. It was my front-end, front-end slip of my sisters. Oh my gosh. But on this movie, whoopie Goldberg, you guys end up speaking. You were telling her, hey, maybe I'm not going to go to school because I'm going to be this acting thing. And she says, get your education. Here's the wonderful thing about being on a set because it becomes your second family. If you are a part of the crew. And I was on that set for like five, six months. And she organically heard my story. She organically knew that I was supposed to be in college because I took that semester off to work on the movie. And she knew that education was very important to my mom. And of course, after being a part of the circus, you want to go join. And she was like, no, the circus will be there. You need to get your education like you promised your mom you would. And I did. And she was shooting Clara's heart in South Africa and had her brother call me to say, we, whoop knows this graduation day. And she's in, in Africa. And didn't want to disturb you with a time difference. So I'm calling you to let you know that she loves you. And she'll reach out to you a little, a little earlier in your time, a little later in her time. Yeah, we'll be stayed. Oh my gosh. Yeah. I just love what honey. We love we'll be for all reasons. She was the first one of us women that allowed us to know that we could be box office successes. We didn't have to be somebody's friend. Yes. We could be the main character. The one. And, you know, for the people who don't know, we began with whoopie for me. And it will end with whoopie for me. I will, I got to find something else for us to do. And let me be the little sister. Come on, do you put me a roll? We need it. We need it. I would live. I would live too. Oh my gosh. So I love hearing those things because you see how so blessed some people are. You know what I'm saying? Or you, what you, how you feel about them? And whoopie is one of those people? And you see why? It's more than just the work. It's the person. And listen to how crazy this is. Riders die, debuted on prime on July 15th. For whatever reason, I hadn't been on the view in 10 years. Well, maybe it was not my whole COVID of it. So, and I have a project that I'm doing with Sunny. And with, you know, you know, my history with whoopie? Of course. It premiered on the day that I was on the view. And I got to plant some seeds for Sunny and throw some flowers to whoopie all on the same day because I felt like it was meant to be. It was meant to be. I'm very much that meant to be type of person. I feel like the stars or, you know, totally an alignment with source. And I'm just so, so these magical moments I love, I love me to. It's so awesome. Yeah, you've joked even in this conversation. And often about this 15 years success, because a lot of people are always feeling like because they just found you, you've just arrived. Oh, yeah. Did you ever, in those 15 years of a steady working, think about giving up? Or what was your attachment to what did you think success would have been for you? What were you looking for to be? Well, success for me was somebody paying me to go and do what I love to do. And then another somebody paid me. And then another. And so then I got an agent to say, well, we just can't start showing up for every somebody. We have to craft a career. And so that's how it began. And I loved the thought of being on a set with Will Smith wanting to see how he navigated a scene. I loved the idea of, let me tell you what people don't realize is the help had Sissy Spasic Academy Award winner, Mary Steenburgeon Academy Award winner, Sicily Tyson Academy Award, nominee, multiple, and then won it posthumously. And then all of the girls that came after, there were so many titans of the industry. Why would you not want to be in their presence and just kind of be that pot at plant and watch them work without a doubt? You know, I love it. So there was, there was never a moment that I thought I should try something new because then I thought, well, what would it be? What would it be? Now I'm sticking with this. Yeah. And I think the key of so much of what you're saying too, like the main thing that caught me and this is the same thing that I feel about my career too is just being able to do what I love sustainably. Exactly. It's such a difficult career that, and I'll be honest, when I was coming up, aside from seeing a war show in a beautiful event, I really didn't know what fame was or care about what fame could be. I cared about being able to do the thing. And so I think, yeah, like just success has always, again, visibility, that's one thing, but you can be successful and not be visible. Yes, I like that. You can be visible and not be successful. Yeah, I like being successful and not being visible. I like being able to walk into, you know, a grocery store with my sumo ball, no makeup, sweatpants, and people always go, "I think that's that's not her." Because why would you look like that? I think that's not, it's not, it's not on me. And then I love it when they say, "Are you Olivia Spencer?" And I can honestly say, "I am not, I am not Olivia." You know what happens to me sometimes? What's your name? I don't know. What's your name? Now you put me on, now I'm playing a game. Yeah, I was like, "How do we get here?" No, hello. No. Just, I know you. I know you. What's your name? And then you try to let them off easily when you say, "I don't think we've met." Oh no, I know. And then they start going down the movies. I love it when they don't even name the movie. Did you work at the high it? I did. I did. Yes. Oh my god. How are you doing? It just shuts it all down and just say, "Yes, that's the thing that, that, um, groundlings taught you." Yes, and, yes, everything. Yes. Anything, I had this lady there for, "Do you want to tell you that you look like Kiki Palmer?" And I was like, "Much prettier." Now look at you. Now look at you. It's like you just saying, "What do you mean, much prettier?" Anyhow, in a world where someone can go viral overnight and we've kind of been talking about this, like the, the, the, the ideas of success, the expectations, what can come of it. But then a lot of people are getting real. It's actually happening. They're coming. It's happening, it's happening fast. Do you think that in there, there might be some steps that could be missing? That, that, that would be in preparation of that sustainability that we're speaking to? I listen, given that what we do is people think it's easy because you're just, you know, wearing costumes and looking far out into the distance and making faces or so it seems. For anyone to reach success, I applaud them. But if your goal is to be a trained actor and you are catapulted into this arena because some prank that you pulled on somebody made you famous, they're very, very different. Yeah, yeah. You're going to get on a set standing in a scene with Robert Downey Jr., Viola Davis, you, me, and you're going to have to deliver it an emotional scene. And if you can't do that, I'm not saying don't go pull pranks on people and make your money that way. But get into an acting class and learn the craft. Yeah. Learn, learn the craft is a big thing. I'm curious Please, what your thoughts are about just evening. immediate fame, 'cause I think about this a lot. Like, fame to me, it traumatized me in when I was a kid. And I was, you know, there's moments of it. There's like extreme popularity, trendy, everybody's talking, and then there's just like, yeah, yeah. You know, I've gone through so many phases of that. And it was traumatizing at its height when I was a teenager. And then I felt the same feeling bubbling again, right? After I did know, and you know, all that kind of stuff. And I was more prepared for it the second time around. And I kind of like, yeah, yeah. How was your relationship with that, with the extreme visibility, popularity, the fame? I don't think I have extreme visibility. And I'm grateful for that, you know what I mean? I love acting. I love that if it's not around a show that people take no interest. You're also a young, beautiful girl. And everybody's gonna be interested in who you're dating and who you're not dating. People are vested in your personal life. So I would say, don't give them any reason, don't put your personal life out there. - Yeah. - Keep your personal life to you and yours and let them be just about the work. And then when they get enough of seeing you what you want them to see. And then if you wanna peel the curtain back a little bit, but once you peel it back, somebody's gonna be ripping me in the covers. I'm like, ah, like right now, I can't get enough of Tom is in there. I'm like, where are you? Where did you guys go? Oh my God. I need more, Tom. - Where did you go? - It's taking me keen out. They're like, at home, man. - Where at home? - They said that's that my **** man. - You know what I'm saying? Don't you know I bought popcorn and I'm watching this whole press release. - Oh my gosh. But it's true this, the whole dating thing is these. - Yes, it is scary. And the thing that I don't like about what we do is the disrespect to, and it's mostly women that it happens to you. When you move on to another partner, somebody for clicks thinks it's okay to revisit someone you dated. And they see this tall, dark and handsome man right next to you who is not that person. So I say, I'm glad that that's not my thing. 'Cause remember Cherey from a real hospital. - Yeah, sure, sure. Who gon' check me boo? I will. - I will check you. - Who gon' check me boo? - I'm gonna check you. - I have a show. - Don't, don't, don't, don't, don't get in my business. I will become a librarian at that point, checking you. - Literally, get in people. - So the question about your dating life. (laughing) - Look, look, look. - We'll just remove it. I saw a ring on your finger. I thought it was up for talk. So, well it is, it's like it in a pretty. (laughing) So, that's where it begins. (laughing) - No, it's just kinda how hard it is. - You know, I know exactly what you're talking about. And it's interesting though, because I feel like so much of my life up until social media, it just was my job. You know, especially like because of, as I started to grow older, and people say I was like, I really wanna keep my romantic life private. But also, I was just kind of like, a nerd about my craft. You know what, I mean, you know, it's like, I just, I never came up for air y'all. It wasn't key to keep it back 'cause I wasn't crying. - Exactly. - It's hard to date and define people and to even experience enough relationships to know what you want. - Exactly. - It's like, I always tell people, you know, the basketball players that you see, they don't know how to talk about nothing else, but basketball, yeah, that was me. - Yeah. - You know, that's my main judge, where it's like, I'm so dedicated to my craft. So, it's, it has a mid to later years that I've really tried to get myself a chance to even know what it is to date. - And let me tell you something, on this side of 40. (laughing) It's a long pause, I'm like, which side do I want to really say? - Don't want to say 56 to do I want to say 40. We're going to keep it young. - Both are fabulous, 'cause you feel good. - Thank you, thank you. - You're welcome. - 56, then. (laughing) On this side of things where I would say, I'm glad for you that you have a child because we just get into the grind of things and the years, the weeks turn into months, turn into years, turn into decades. And you look back and you're like, wait a minute, is it, has 10 years actually passed? So, always make time for yourself. Always make time for yourself. - Yeah. - And, I'm learning that in this wonderful old age of 56. - Did you ever want any kids? - I wanted three kids, not just one, because I needed that one child to have somebody to play with. Oh, but then, my more of it brain, what if something happened to the one child? I need three, so you say how am I crazy? - I love everything that I bring. - Everything about, it's, yeah. - Everything about your gym and everything I bring. - My gym and I brain. My gym and I moon, my gym and I. Sun, my gym and I. The law's landing. - And then, you never, you just said, hey, (beep) or do you want them now? - Well, I have enough children in my life now that I get to love and send them home. - Yeah, yeah. - The send home is good. - Yeah, and I, I have a, you know, quite a few nieces, nephews, great nieces, nephews and God children. - Yeah. - And I think now when I think about it, that's exactly where my energy needs to be on those kids. - Yeah. I know you say you don't feel like you have high visibility. I feel like visibility comes in seasons and I know especially at me when you think about all your accolades, the awards you've been given, there's tons of visibility everybody's talking and thinking about you. What was the moment though, after that 15 years and that big breakthrough with the help? 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So no more settling, no more close enough, visit Sephora to find your match. (upbeat music) Well, I was at the grocery store in the produce section right after the help and I was trying, I want to say I was thumping a melon. And this guy, and I'm examining it, thumping and this guy got so close to my face and he said eat my blank. - No, I say H.O.D. - Uh-huh, and I just looked at him. I was about to bop him over the head with his melon but I forgot that he was actually saying a line to me and he was like, "Get it, get it." And I thought this fool almost, with a melon. And then I realized, "Oh, okay, okay." Okay, so there is a public perception that you can, you know, crossboundries and people think that you are constantly in the city. - Think it about your job. - Yeah, you know, or, you know, it had been months. Actually, it was probably a year and a half to two years later. So the last time I heard that. - He just saw it though. - Yeah, I know. It was just like excitement. I'm like, honey, come here. Don't ever say that to anybody, especially not a woman. - Oh my god. - You know, so you, you know, just making sure you have boundaries. But that was the point. And then I was in Spain doing publicity for the help. And I am an Auburn Tiger. And our greeting, our battle cry, whatever is War Eagle. I was in Spain. And I hear. - War Eagle, Octavia. - And I thought, "What? War Eagle?" You know, you know, just not not not. - It was a reflex. - Yeah, completely. So that's when I realized, "Okay, I might be swimming in a different boat right now." - Yes. - But to the extent that it is, it is always out there. - Yeah. - I keep that in bed. - Yeah. - I mean, well, after you win the Oscar, I know you said, you know, you kind of have to start. We're like, "Okay, you know, I'm about to get all these scripts. We about to get all this stuff. I'm going to be popping." And I know we hear this a lot. So I don't, I want to go a different area with it. But what would you say that you, that you learned like about the expectations or the ideas around what Oscars can give, you know, you win, you win one? - Well, Viola Davis being just the salt of the earth that she is. She kind of prepared me for that. She told me well before we even started the campaign to open the film, let alone the Oscar campaign. She's like, "This is going to be a protracted amount of time. Do you know what job you have lined up next?" And I'm like, "Why don't we just close this one?" - She said, "No, it's going to be, it's going to be nine months of your life. If you don't have your next job," you know. I'm like, "Well, I don't have my next job." - That is so real. - Yeah, you know? - So real. - So when, when Snowpiercer came about in the fall, I booked Snowpiercer. - That movie is so good. - It is so good. - It is so nuts, but it's good. - Crazy, and I love it. - But I can't do people down there. - It was so crazy. I had so much fun working on that. - A great world. I love creating a world in the house. - Yes, and director Bond, I mean, I love-- - You've done such cool projects. - I refuse to be pigeon-holed. I refuse to be your idea of what I should be, your perception of me. I'm my perception of me, and I am clay on a potter's wheel, continuing to figure that out. But it was never easy, and one would think, all white girls, I mean, the minute they book, they have ten projects lined up, and it's like, "No." What do you have for me? We want you to play this maid. We want you to play that maid. - We think she's a maid. - Yeah, I'm like, "Guys, I don't know, I can't even cook. Stop asking me to be somebody's maid." I play the best maid written, and therefore I don't ever need to do it again. - Right. So don't knock on the door. If it is a M-A-I-D, if it's an M-A-D-E, made, well then let's talk about it. But it was Viola totally being honest and saying, you need to start thinking about your next job, and then what sustained that for me, after like Fruitvale Station, I got Fruitvale Station right after I won the Oscar, and there were a few roles that came between, I thought, "I'm going to need to start producing because I can see this well drying up." There aren't a lot of opportunities, and the things that I gravitate towards are usually the things that we find. - Yeah, yeah, I mean that's the thing. Our industry is constantly ever changing. - Yeah, ever changing. - It really is, it really is. And I love the solution, even though it's again, we can sit and we can talk about what we can compare or what should happen, you know, that happens for others, but I love that the reality is, I'm forward moving. This isn't going to, I'm not going to waste my time to, you know, it was kind of similar to what I was talking with Wippy about is like, I would love to snap my fingers and change everything overnight. I know the first five things I would change, but until those things are going to change, I'm going to still be finding the solutions for myself, and giving myself autonomy in a process that feels as if I shouldn't have any. So I really, I really love that, and you've been great doing that. - Well, thank you, and the other thing is, if I had magical powers, it wouldn't be to change anything in my life. It would be to change the course of the world, all of the upheaval and strife, and try to force people to be better people. Not my journey in life, because everything that has happened to me, whether good or bad, has shaped me into the person that I am. And I feel that I can speak from a place of knowledge, because it has happened to me. So I think now I'm Wippy to a lot of young people, and it's like, wow, time is really, really, um, sped up. Well, you're not there yet, honey, you'll be Wippy in 20 years. - Oh my gosh, I would love to join that group. You'll be Wippy in 20 years. - Hello. I need to figure out my Wippy thing. How does Wippy that? - Hey. - Hey, welcome to the view. - You're welcome to the view. - Wippy. - Oh my gosh, I just love her so bad. - Yes, I love her. - Oh my gosh. Okay, so this was cool to me when I was getting ready to speak to you, was after the help, you know, you had made, you did the help, you had gotten the Oscar, people clearly knew your talent was insane. But I don't know, I guess you were talking with Jessica Chastain, and somehow it came up that you guys would get paid differently. - So Jessica, also, salt of the earth, came to me with a project that she wanted to do, a Christmas project. And she, again, a person who does, she's a doer, she's a producer. And she said, "I want us to do it together." I mean, wouldn't it be great? I said, "Yes." And me being the talker that I am, remember talking, "We'll sink ships. I'm about to sink this ship." So I said, "Yeah, Jessica, y'all, that's great. The idea sounds great, but you don't have to pay me." And she said, "Of course, I'm going to pay." I said, "No, no." People always say, "Of course." And then they only have, when they go to white actors, they have dollars. And by the time they get to the black actors, they have cents. So I need to know, do you have some dollars? - This is so real. - And she said, "Octavia, yes." And so I gave her the chronology of my pay. - Yeah. - And she sat quietly on the phone. And she said, "Oh, my God, you and I. " No, no, but you know what I mean? She was like, "I got a damn for the help. I got 13 cents." - You know, literally. - I know exactly what you're talking about, because somebody tried to say something. I don't want to interrupt. But somebody had said something to me and I literally told them, I said, "It's hard sometimes to know what you're missing." If you don't, if it's gonna take a sister, that's a sister. - Yeah. - To be like, otherwise it's like, I'm happy in comparison to where my personal growth is. - Exactly. - So when she looked at your paper, she said, "Oh, [bleep] girl." - Yeah, when I told her-- - You in trouble. - You in trouble, girl. - So, and so my team always, they know when someone comes to me, if it's not a labor of love, my labor of love, my labor of love, I'll do for a dime. I'm not doing your labor of love for a dime. I'm not doing your labor of love for a penny. I'm not doing your labor of love for deferment. You have to come at me the right way. And this is how you know if they truly value you. And this is for every inquiring mind out there. This is how you know if they truly value you. If they come to you and say, "It's a $10 million budget. Nobody's making any money I said, you know what? it's a great script. I understand that. Let's talk back in. Back in. Back in, and that imaginary money that you haven't made. See, I'm peeping that you're peeping that you're going to make that money. And then in success, I want my not done, I want my dollar. And if you can't give me, you want me to sign on for pennies and the front, but won't give me any of the imaginary money in the back. We can't be friends, honey. The first person to introduce me to the imaginary money in the back paid me pretty good for my little kid age. I was 11 or 12 years old, introduced me to the imaginary money. Got major imaginary money was Tyler Perry. You hear me? That was the other reason I worked in casting office, because I learned to read those contracts. The imaginary money is where you get rich. Imaginary. That is. So if they're not willing to get, they want you to do a small budget film. And they don't want to cut you in on the imaginary money. Yeah. They are no friends of yours. So especially the business. And this is what I say to them. Thank them, honey. Thank them. Thank them for thinking of me. When you get to the thank you part, we never say things mean. It's thank them. Thank them. And my, my, my, my Lord, oh, God, she's saying thank you. I'm like, thank them. It's so thank you. And the, and the other people on the other end are like, she said thank you and they're like, that's not a good thing. She's done. She's done. You won't be getting driven. That is bonds. Boo boy. That is so real. It is. Yeah. I mean, I really do. It doesn't mean that I won't do. Yeah. But you need to be thinking about me when you're thinking about you. Yeah. Yeah. You're thinking about what you're going to get in success. And you're telling me you love me and all these things. The worst part about that is when they turn into a cult classic. You hear me? No back. No back. No front end. No front end. But you got, you got the, the kick ball. We got heathers on, but I'm a cheerleader. Why do we make our own? We'll do our own mom. I made that mom. Oh my gosh. Speaking of mom, we're going to get to this game. Yes. Oh my gosh. You are such a ball. I love for you. I love for you. So I can have you know, we all love mom. That Bob has the most iconic. I mean, we live for you. It's Regina. Regina Hall even stole it in this game. I am so mad at Regina for stealing mom. She's so funny. Okay. So we're going to play this game. Okay. And you're going to tell me if you would let it slide or if you would bring the mom Bob out. Okay. Okay. So I'm going to play with you. I'll get I'll give some some as well. Okay. So it's with with my let it slide or with the Bob come out. Okay. So the first one is your friend date your ex. Bob. Bob with an ex. I'm going to have to agree with you. Because what day are you meeting with? I mean, what would you have you been thinking this whole time? Well, something going on this whole time. Okay. Someone eat your leftovers without asking. I'll let it slide, but I'd be mad as hell to me on a second try would be mom with the Bob. Okay. Your friend tells everybody a secret you told her. Well, sometimes I've done that. Okay. Wait. Wait. Wait. If I told you not to tell, that is it is mom. The Bob is coming out. If I didn't tell you not to tell, it's on me because you need to say you this doesn't leave us. We didn't know. And by the way, the person I told, they're really trustworthy. It's always that. Okay. Someone borrows your wig and doesn't give it back. I'm coming over. That lady is so funny. I see my sister does this all the time. And so I haven't mod her yet. So I think I would have to let it slide because, you know, once it leaves your head, it will never see the light of day on your head again. Okay. A date goes to you and text you three months later. See, there's a part of me that won't sit. We'll see. We'll see. We'll see. We'll see. I'll get wants to stalk him. Play games. Yo, that Jim and I is fierce. That's what makes Jim and I so fun because I would be writing that passenger seat. There's a part of me that's like, you ghosted me. I might you might see elements of this in my dude. I'm joking. I'm joking. We got to go to the park. Okay. Here we go. Someone takes the aisle seat when you booked it. Sweetie, there is no. There's, there's just, I don't even have to put the ball on. These eyeballs will be all you need as I'm checking. Because what are you doing in my seat? Because this is me making the salad production. Oh my gosh. One time I was on a flight and I was trying to get me and my friend to sit next to each other. My home girl, she was a female friend and so, you know, the person we were sitting there waiting for them to approach, you know what I'm saying? They were like, hey, do you mind? And they were like, and she was like, this is my wife. Like, like, you know, this is my wife. And then they said, this is my wife. Like, oh. Got you with them. Got you with the wife. I guess y'all got it then. Well, you know what? It's always easier if you ask the flight attendant. Yeah. If everything is booked up and if the person sitting next to you, like, you know, if there's another seat, if they're going to be full and then you kind of do your recon and you can say, I realize you guys want to fly together. But my friend is sitting in D and she doesn't fly well. They said, you know, he is available. Do you mind? Do you mind? And some people will. Yeah. But I- And let's stay together. Well, my thing is, don't y'all see each other every day? Don't you want to break? Don't you? I think you need this time apart. Don't you need this time apart? Much together. They breathe the too much togetherness will bring a relationship down. That's a scene in the movie. Literally trying to get the seat that whole thing jokes right themselves. They do with funny people back at you. Thank you so much for coming on the pie. Thank you for having me. Just a ball. True. So much. I feel like I've known you. I actually have known you your whole life. But the energy is that I'm so happy to sit up here just getting to it with you. I really admire you. I admire you too. And thank you for all that you do and your voice is very needed in our community. Thank you so much. Thank you. This conversation is a reminder that being seen can change your life. But knowing your own worth can change someone else's. I tell you, it builds a career and a life on her own terms. And once she had the power to open doors, she made sure she wasn't the only one walking through them. So if you take anything from this episode, let it be this. Define success for yourself. Know your worth. And when you get the power to make a difference, use it to help somebody else know theirs. And baby, this is Kiki Palmer. [BLANK_AUDIO]