O Brother, Where Art Thou?

The year's 2000. Wait a minute. Who elected you leader of this outfit? Well, Pete, I figured it should be the one with the capacity for abstract thought. But if that ain't the consensus view, then hell, let's put her to a vote. Suits me. I'm voting for yours truly. Well, I'm voting for yours truly, too. Okay. I'm with you fellows. The movie? Oh, brother, we're out now. Hello, everyone, and welcome to. Unspooled! Yes, welcome to Unspooled. This is a podcast about good movies. Critical hits, fan favorites, must-sees, and in case you missed them. We've covered the AFI Top 100, and now we are checking off movies from three, maybe even more, movies. We're checking off movies from three, maybe even more, movies. Odyssey in here. There's not quite enough Preston Sturgis. I don't know what I make of this. Like, I thought you were about everything I love. I'm not sure what you are. Are you kind of slight? Are you kind of weird? And then my disappointment has faded with every watch. Every watch, I just find it lighter and lighter and more and more fun. You know, to me, this is the battle I go through with every Coen Brothers film. I watch it with the highest of expectations. I am immediately let down. But I liked it. I just am like, oh, it wasn't what I wanted it to be. And then it just continues to grow and grow and grow. And, you know, when I rewatch it for the episode this week, I was like, oh, I like this movie a lot more than I remember liking it. And to your point, every single time. But I think the reason why their movies have this kind of appeal is because they're jam packed. I mean, this is, you know, a comedy film. It's a comedy road movie. It's also like you said, it has these like literary illusions, but it's also about like faith and and the future. Right. They're talking about like modern times and getting the South into this new version of the South. You know, but it's also kind of about like how the media can turn people into legends. And there's so many big ideas at play that I feel like on first viewing, you can't even appreciate all of them. It's sort of like you're getting hit with Tommy Gunfire. It all fits together as a great film, but you start to see all these layers every single time you rewatch it. No, I think that's exactly it. I think that's exactly it, because they don't come out and say, here's what my movie is about or here's what was interesting to us. Right. They're playing with the audience all the time. You know, they want to act like they don't care. And they in all the interviews for the movie, they're like, oh, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't when the movie came out. They're like, it's just a romp. We just want to make something fun. It's just a dumb comedy. We started by writing a comedy that was like three idiots on the run. And then we're like, yeah, it's an odyssey. Let's just call it an odyssey. Why not? And they act, you know, they act like it's nothing in plain sight. But then underneath it, you know that they have these churning ideas that they're going to make you pull out. They're not going to even give you a big speech about what the movie means. Right. They want you just to kind of sift through it and find the treasure. Well, you know, I think that the title is really If you're a film fan, to Amy's point, you know that this is a reference to Preston Sturge's Sullivan's Travels. And in that, you know, movie, you have this disenchanted, he's a director, right? Yeah. The disenchanted director who is trying to tell the perfect story about the South. And it sounds so lame. And he wanted the title at, oh, brother, where art thou? Right. And yeah, this is him describing it. Right. I want this picture to be a commentary on modern conditions, stark realism, the problems that confront the average man. But with a little sex. A little, but I don't want to stress it. I want this picture to be a document. I want to hold a mirror up to life. I want this to be a picture of dignity, a true canvas of the suffering of humanity. With a little sex in it. How about a nice musical? How can you talk about musicals at a time like this with the world committing suicide, with corpses piling up in the street, with grim death gargling at you from every corner, with people slaughtered like sheep? Maybe they'd like to forget that. Then why do they hold this one over for a fifth week at the music hall? For the ushers? It died in Pittsburgh. Like a dog. What do they know? In Pittsburgh? They know what they like. If they know what they like, they wouldn't live in Pittsburgh. That's no argument. And yeah, that's exactly the kind of movie that Coen's never want to make, right? Yeah, I love that movie. And it's funny because the director's misguided, right? He wants to stop making comedies. He wants to show the real people. But what he finds in going on that journey is that the real people have, you know, they're not just sitting around being melancholy, right? They have a life. They have joy. And he kind of invents what his idea of the movie even should be because he actually sees that these are real people, right? And. Right. And that when you're miserable, you might just want a comedy. Like, I'm, even as a critic, I'm having a hard time wanting to see movies that make me miserable. Oh, and I mean. I feel it's unfair. There's probably some great movies that are miserable right now, but I have just no bandwidth for it. Oh, 100%. I mean, one of my favorite moments in that film is, you know, a bunch of Chang gang members watching a comedy and laughing. And that really is the moment. He. He sees that he has worth making comedy, right? Like that, you know, and that's. Which is how the Coens feel. Yeah. Yes. And that movie, Preston Sturges' film, is doing something really interesting. They're telling a story about the South, but also showing that there's, you know, yes, there is poverty, there is racism, there is violence, but there are also humans there. It's, like I said, I think it's a conservation of the way that Hollywood glamorizes or, or not glamorizes, but kind of. Patronizes, maybe. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Well, and that's what I found so weird about going back and reading original reviews of Oh Brother or Artau, is critics, the uniform kind of take on them was like, the Coens are really patronizing. The Coens are really insulting to people of the South. The Coens are really snobby. The Coens think they're smarter than everyone else. For some reason, I don't feel that when I watch this movie. I see people. I see filmmakers who are curious and kind of equal opportunity pranksters. Absolutely. And I think that they're having fun in trying to tell this grand tale by pulling little things from the biggest epics that we have, like The Odyssey, like Moby Dick, right? Even The Wizard of Oz. There's so much in this. There's so much Wizard of Oz. Yeah. It's amazing. And they're just kind of making this, like, just stew of big, big literary and filmic illusions, right? So you start to feel like we're in this world where everything is kind of larger than life, but at the same time, it's also, I think, incredibly pointed and real. Yeah. I mean, this is a movie that I feel like is in love with being a movie. Right. That whole digital use of turning things sepia was just to even bring you inside and be like, this movie's fake-ish. It's a fantasy. We're playing with the format. This is not like a documentary by any sort of. Please don't pretend that it is. And that it's just. I don't know. There's something in a movie where when you sit down, even if it feels like a shallow story, it's made with so much care. There's so much effort into it, into the pacing, into the dialogue, into the set design, into just beautiful recreations of the South, that no matter if it feels like a romp, you know that you are in good hands. Absolutely. Every choice in this movie is completely thought out. And I think at the same time, lampooning or paying homage to classic American storytelling. It's a prison movie. It's a road movie. It's a musical. It's political satire. It's an adaptation of things that we know and we feel. So it's kind of even playing on our expectations of what all those things are and subverting them at the same time. And I think that that gives you that uneasy nature or that polarizing nature. Because like, oh, you're giving me something that looks like pizza, but it doesn't taste like pizza. Like, wait, wait, hold on. And it's confusing, right? It's confusing to me. This podcast is brought to you by Paul just eating a piece of pizza. I am eating pizza right now. But you know what I'm saying? It has that thing where I think that that familiarity is one of the reasons why it's making people frustrated. It looks like the thing I want, but it's not the thing I want. Yeah. I was sort of frustrated. Definitely the first time I watched it, like engage more with the odyssey. Right. But now I'm thinking about it, especially post seeing Christopher Nolan's odyssey, hearing all the discourse about how, how, oh gosh, odd, strange, refreshing, pointed it was to watch an ancient classical mythological mythological tale told not in that uniform British English of like, Zeus, you will thunderbolt all people of how that's my brilliant British accent. But like told through like American dialects, people saying mom and dad. Yeah. And transplanting the odyssey to, I think in Nolan's world, like an American statement on what's happening with this country right now, what's happening with this world right now by making it feel so American over there out there, regardless of the fact that they didn't even read the book. I think Joel maybe read the Iliad once. Uh, it's doubly American. This couldn't be more American. It couldn't sound more American. The accents couldn't be more American. It is an American story. And you do get the feeling of like going on a journey through all of the different monsters and creatures and God-like tyrants of this country. And I also think it kind of breaks America into this idea of two types of people, right? There are people who can speak a good game and, you know, and they can kind of manipulate you with their speech. And then this idea that song is maybe the biggest unifier. I do feel like this movie is centered by these two types of storytelling. We have these, you know, these prisoners, these bad guys who become heroes because people love their song. They don't even know what they did. Right. Um, and when they get this kind of pardon at the end, but because we love their song, we're kind of letting them off the hook. It's okay. Well, you create a good art and it's like the power of, you know, uh, persuasion in the media, like who you are. And I think that that's a conversation that's really interesting to have at this time in 2000, like, you know, how, you know, like how we can let some people know that we're not going to off easy just because we like what they do. That's the part that popped out to me that had never popped out so strongly before. Because right now we're living in a time where everything is politics and manipulation. Almost nobody even brought up the political element in reviews of this time. Really? You know, in feedback. No, they talked about the music. They talked about how it was or wasn't that Odyssey-like. But the fact that this is a movie about two people running for governor, one of whom is, you know, Pappy O'Daniel, who is this manipulator. He's the current governor. And the other one is this like rebellious reform upstart who sounds like he's a good guy, but then winds up being in the Klan. I mean, this reform candidate, his name is Homer. He's very good on a stage. He's very good at performing. This is him saying why we have to get rid of Pappy O'Daniel. So you have these two candidates. Neither one of them feels like I would enjoy voting for them to be my governor, but they're both using the popularity of the Soggy Bottom Boys as like pro or con. One of them is like, I'm going to turn against the Soggy Bottom Boys because they are an integrated band. And that's why I'm going to vote for them. And I'm going to vote for them. That goes against like my morals. And I'm going to play up to the Southerners and try to get like the racist vote. The other one is like, I love the Soggy Bottom Boys. I love you guys so much that if you, you know, vote me for governor, I'm going to turn them into my brain trust. And from everything we've been around, these guys are morons. It should not be a brain trust. Exactly. The power vested in me, these boys, is hereby pardoned. And the second Pappy O'Daniel administration, these boys is going to be my brain trust. What's that mean, Everett? I don't know what it means to you. I mean, if you tell me, you're going to be voting. The power behind the throne, so to speak. Oh, okay. So without further ado, and by way of endorsing my candidacy, the Soggy Bottom Boys is going to lead us all in a chorus of "You Are My Sunshine." Thank you, boys. You see the power of the media, right? This idea of "I'm just going to ride out what is popular." And popularity kind of trumps everything. You know, all of a sudden we go from this governor, like you said, who is bad. I mean, look, he is the lesser of two evils. But I think even as an audience member, I'm falling into that trap too and going like, well, but I think that this is the right choice, but he's also bad, right? Like, you know, we get into this argument all the time, like, well, you know, people are like, I don't want to vote because I don't like either of them, you know, it's like, well, this has been going on for a very, very long time. Yeah. Or even the crowd who's there cheering and clapping for the Soggy Bottom Boys, being so excited to vote for whoever likes the Soggy Bottom Boys. They're like, hey, this guy Homer's in the KKK. Nobody cares. The people do not care if one person's in the KKK or not. They just care that you like the band that they like or don't, you know, and you just see who's a better, who's better at being a shrewd political animal. And I also think this idea that like, it doesn't even make a difference. About what you stand for. We like the pomp and circumstance. And I think that that's something about America, like we like, like we like theater, like when you look at that Klan rally and I've seen many Klan rallies in film, but I would say that this Klan rally is so kind of beautifully shot and the ceremony of it is so, you know, ritualistic that it feels like, oh, I understand. And I also think this idea that like, it doesn't even make a difference if one person's in the KKK or not, but I would say that this Klan rally is so, you know, ritualistic that it feels like, oh, I understand. less temporary, neuterful. is a physician-formulated, clinically tested way to support healthier hair from within. In fact, Nutrafol is the number one dermatologist-recommended hair growth supplement brand used by over 1.5 million people, and they have formulas built for men at different life stages. 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You are listening. And this movie is a lot about sight. You know, I think that you can make an argument that the Cyclops character that John Goodman plays, he has one eye. So his way of looking at the world is skewed, right? He is unbalanced in the way that he sees the world. The radio gives people an idea of the soggy bottom boys that isn't actually true, right? We embrace, you know, there's a whole thing about, oh, the owner of the radio station is blind. So he doesn't even know who's performing. Like he's just hearing the music, right? There's a lot about sight and how you actually see. And maybe sight isn't all about just what you are visually seeing, but it's kind of the mental picture that you're creating about what you're seeing. Again, going to performance. Yeah. And it is funny, like how many blind characters are in Homer or circle around Homer. You know, that there's like blind prophets, that Homer himself was considered blind. We get a note of like the blind prophet here. He's based on like the character of Tiresias, who if you've seen the Odyssey, he's the guy who like digs out of the dirt. He's like, here's what's going to happen to you. This is their version of that character. You seek a great fortune. You three who are now in shame. You will find a fortune. No, it will not. be the fortune you seek. But first, first, you must travel a long and difficult road. A road fraught with peril. Yeah, this idea of seeing clearly is a huge metaphor in both. You know, he gets home in the Odyssey and, you know, Odysseus isn't sure who recognizes him. He disguises who he is here. You even have like, this Penny character refusing to recognize her husband, pretending she doesn't know who he is, hiding behind beards, thinking people are like just no good train hopping beggars. You know, that's, that is very much one of the things that unifies these things. Well, even, I mean, George Clooney's character's obsession with his own appearance, right? He needs a certain pomade, right? He wants to look a certain way, you know, even though he at certain points is covered in dirt and looks, you know, absolutely, completely disheveled. His hair, he wants to make himself look like this. He wants to look like this. Yeah. I love how he just wakes up like sputtering. You know, George Clooney did his own makeup for this, or basically he did his own filth. Like, he would take dirt, rub it on his face, just rub it on his face for real, and then wipe it off with a wet paper towel. And then he'd just add a little bit more stubble with a pen. Oh, wow. Interesting. I love that. Tiny thing about his performance and his accent, he based his accent on his uncle who was from Kentucky. And what he did, is he had his uncle read the entire script to Oh Brother, Where Art Thou in a tape recorder. Then he threw the script away, and he just listened to his uncle say the lines over and over again until he had the accent right, which worked in terms of memorizing his lines. But then a couple months into this shoot, the Coens were like, you really do have every word of this perfect, except you never say the words hell and damn. His uncle had just skipped them because he didn't want to curse. Oh, wow. Oh, so sweet. And I love that because this is Clooney. He gets announced that he's making this movie one month after he officially quit DR, when he's like the sexiest man in the world. And he went like full clown, right? The sexiest man in the world's like, I'm going to rub dirt on my face. I'm going to make myself look ridiculous. He turns himself into just this charismatic buffoon, fast talking, slick. Well, somebody who seems to know the answers, says how the world works, but is. Constantly the least perceptive. And which is why he's also hilarious, right? Like, he will never be flustered. He will never be without the answer. But yet he has no knowledge whatsoever. But he is spitting it out like he's got, he knows everything about everything. You stole from my kin, who was fixing to betray us. You didn't know that at the time. So I borrowed it till I did know. That don't make no sense. It's a fool who looks for logic in the chambers of the human heart. I mean, seeing George Clooney in this movie, is such a treat. Just seeing somebody put all of their movie star charisma into this. I'm just realizing now how much I just adore these handful of actors. I don't feel like we have enough who are willing to look ridiculous in the service of having a great movie. Oh, absolutely. But I also think, you know, we just came off of an Academy Awards season where you're watching somebody like Sean Penn and even Leonardo DiCaprio, both in the same movie, in one battle, do these very big performances. I mean, Sean Penn definitely. much more of a clowning performance, you know, I like that these leading men have, like, I think a lot of leading men have this, like, want to be a character actor. I think that that's one of the things I love about Brad Pitt. I mean, F1 is not that, but he often will find himself trying to do something more. DiCaprio's always kind of chasing that. You know, this ability to feel so comfortable, maybe it's the, it's maybe the Paul Newman, thing, right? I know, I know I'm so good looking. I need to, like, switch it up. I don't want to be good looking. I want to be something else. And it doesn't hurt that he also looks like a 40s movie star in this movie is, you know, if he feels time period specific, like he looks such the part as does Totoro and Tim Blake Nelson as well. I mean, I love the way that Tim Blake Nelson essentially just keeps his mouth open for the entire film. It's hilarious. Yeah. And it's funny to think that this is like one of the first times people saw Tim Blake Nelson. Like, I think this movie helped. They kind of like pulled him out of not retirement, but out of Obscurity. I mean, he's like an Oklahoma rich kid, you know, but a smart one. He's the only one who had read the Odyssey. Like he has a degree in classics from Brown. He's the only writer too, right? He was wanting to make his own movies at this point and the music, right? I think that there is something about, you know, I wrestle with this or I don't wrestle with it, but I'm often thinking that one of the things you can, one of the hardest things to do for yourself is to approach the world with a certain amount of naivete, right? We have all been hardened and formed by our experiences that we have lived in. And so when we go into a certain situation, we make assumptions. And as we make assumptions, we probably are closing ourselves off to certain things, but that's, you know, part of of survival, right? Like, you understand, like. I will look both ways before I cross the street. You know, there are certain things that are baked into our, who we are. But I think that this movie is trying to tell you don't think you can know all the answers. Knowing all the answers, you'll never get far. You will never, you know, it's like you have to kind of flow with the world. You have to kind of move with it and make judgments based on the moment rather than a prescriptive lockdown. Because that's what George Clooney is always doing. He's like, I got my answer, even though it's not based on what's actually going on, right? Like he's never, never, ever phased. And I think this idea of like moving like with the ebb and flow, I want to bring it to the river. Because I think the river to me is so crucial in this film. Like what the river represents. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it represents a bazillion different things. Like this river that's coming. You know, this dam that's going to come that, according to the lie he's told, is going to wash away where he buried the $1.2 million. There's a little bit of it in there that is, yeah, flow, giving over. It's strange how reminiscent the scene of everybody getting washed away in the river is to a scene that you'll see in the Odyssey when you finally see it. This idea of accepting your fate, putting your trust in the hands of the Lord. Like he finally does for a second towards the end of it before he takes it back here. Lord, please look down and recognize us poor sinner. Please, Lord. I just want to see my daughters again. I've been separated from my family for so long. I know I've been guilty of pride and sharp dealing. I'm sorry that I turned my back on you, Lord. Forgive me. But help us, Lord, for the sake of my family. And of course, he's immediately like, no, there's a scientific explanation for this. Definitely, definitely, definitely. But in that moment, he allows the water to flow over him. But then there's also this whole sense of what the water means, even in the Odyssey on a larger scale, which is Poseidon, that a God that is angry, who is controlling your fate, who's not letting your boat go to shore, that he maybe gets Poseidon's forgiveness and Poseidon helps him out. Like, throws a bunch of water out to, like, save his life. Yes, because he's somebody who doesn't actually believe in religion, right? Like, when everybody else runs to get baptized, he's like, nope. But yet he is somebody who is constantly saved by these moments of, you know, unexplainable, you know, like, he is living a very blessed life in a way. Yeah, and I feel like the idea of the gods, if they are real in this movie at all, you know, that's left kind of vague and teasing. In a way, the gods almost. The gods seem to be ominous. Like, the gods kind of, to me, feel more like the law. Right. You know, the sheriff who shows up with the reflective glasses and you can't see his face and you can't please him. And he's just an avenger. You know, he has made up your mind. He has made up his mind that he doesn't like you and you have to be punished. Again, by the way, sight and not sight. And the law acting like the state of Mississippi. Yeah. But the state of Mississippi is like this avenging God who will not forgive them. And, you know, the way that this movie. You know, constantly puts them in water for these major decisions. You know, this idea, like, they are. And by the way, water washes away that guy, right? Like, we don't know what happens to him. We assume that he's dead, but, like, water takes him out, right? The water is the one thing, this reoccurring theme that can kind of wash away your sins. It can kind of give you rebirth. It can, you know, deliverance. Like, I think water is, you know, is really interesting here. Because even the seduction, while framed as negative, is actually, I guess, positive, right? He didn't turn into a frog. We think he did. But, like, there's nothing bad in the water. You think, oh, the water, they've called him there to change him, but it didn't. Well, no, I mean, I was going to say, like, when they're having that water scene at the end with the sheriff, he has that really freaky line where he says. They're trying to tell him, like, you can't arrest. You can't execute us. We've been pardoned. We just got pardoned by, like, Governor Menelaus. And he goes, well, we haven't. We don't have a radio, and the law is a human institution. That line really freaks me out. Because if the law is a human institution, then what is he? Because he's saying, I'm going against that. Like, I don't have to listen to that. He seems bigger and scarier. Like, he sees himself above the law, above humanity. I think, but also because he's wearing these dark glasses, he can't see what he is or what he's not, right? Like, they do such a great job with the costumes. They do such a great costume design there in the sense that even the center part of his sunglasses is, like, a leather, like, a little pouch. I've seen these before, you know? But, like, you don't see anything across his face. You know, and the way that you always are shooting him, he is. He's got blinders on. Blinders. Not even. Yeah, I would say blinders. Why not? But I also think that this movie doesn't just make the evil people have blinders on. I think you could draw a line to Penny. Which is, you know. You know, Clooney's wife, Holly Hunter, in the film, you know, her demand for this wedding ring, right, is something that is interesting that she comes back to. She, like, she needs proof. You want me back? Well, you got to give me that ring. Well, here's another ring. Well, that's not the ring I wanted. Well, you told me it was there, and that's the one I got. Well, I could have gotten confused. Like, I need that ring. And it's, like, there is something. Like, she also has a firm line. And a lot of people do. Like, a lot of people are stuck in their belief and stuck in their ways. And maybe, I don't know if it's not appreciating the moment that they're in or seeing the forest through the trees. But I thought that the fact that the movie ends on that wedding ring moment, to me, you know, he wants this reunion. And I'm thinking about this. He wants a reunion. He wants to come back. And I guess maybe it's saying that there's two parts to this story. Like, just because you want to be back, just because you want this reunion, doesn't mean that you can control somebody else either. Like, somebody else has a say as well. Or is it that you'll always be fighting an uphill battle? You will always be on this epic quest. You know, like, is marriage the ultimate, you know, hero's journey? I don't know. He will never be able to find that. We know that he will never be able to find that ring. So, until. So, or will he always. Will he be dying trying to find that ring? My adventure in days has come to an end. Time for this old boy to enjoy some repose. That's good. You were right about that ring, too. Any other wedding band wouldn't do. This here was foreordained. Fake was a-smiling on me. You just have to have confidence in the gods. That's not my ring. What? That's not my ring. Not your ring? That's one of Anne Harling's. You said it was in the roll-top desk. I said I thought it was in the roll-top desk. No, you said that. Or under the mattress, or. No, you. Maybe my shipper robe. I don't know. Well, I'm sorry, honey. Well, we need that ring. Well, that ring is at the bottom of a pretty darn big lake. Uh-uh. A 9,000-hectare lake. I don't care if it's 90,000. But, honey. That lake was not my doing. Well, of course not. I counted to three, honey. Honey, no, wait. Well, I also just enjoy seeing an actor with that much charm find the limit of his charm, you know? Yes. That he just cannot win her over, and the idea of somebody so drawn to that. But, yeah, we can say marriage is the ultimate hero's journey. Sure. Right, I mean, no, it's like. Well, I guess maybe. Maybe it's a journey that never ends. Yeah. Which I think is a beautiful way to look at it. It's not just like you get married and it's over. It's a continually. Every relationship. It's not just about marriage. But every relationship is a constant, you know, recommitment and growth. I mean, that's. We talked about The Invite a little while ago. I think that's the core of that film, too. Especially after you read, like, an article in the New York Times with Esther Perel. You know, this idea. You know, it's like. I think that there's the idea that you can constantly be on this journey of marriage, and maybe that's the hardest one. I don't know. I think that, again, I see why that's so interesting, and I found it to be really. My eyes opened this time. Ooh, my eyes opened. I see the movie a little bit differently, and I think that that might be why the movie ends in an unfulfilling way for some. But for others, it feels like, oh, what a perfect bookend here. Like, what a perfect way to end it. Because he went from one chain, a chain gang, to another. His kids. Ooh. All in that chain gang, right? I mean, they're all the same thing. That's true. And one is voluntary. They are all holding that little rope, right? Yeah. And his want to have that, right? Like, he's going from one to the other, and is one better than the other? He's living in a. He's still living in this thing where he's kind of trapped, and he's got to answer this woman who's going to be very demanding of him, and they're on a chain gang. Yeah, he wants another lifelong, long sentence with a master he can't please. Right. You know? Oh, I like that. You know, there's something that I respect a little bit in the Coens' idea of pulling their homages from the Odyssey by a sense of just sort of gut instinct, or like, here's what we thought was interesting. Here's what we remember about the story of the Odyssey that we're not going to reread. We're going to be able to conflate some stuff together, push stuff together, cram stuff together to figure out, like, the themes that we find really interesting. I mean, because talking about the impact of, like, power and music and popularization popularity, that makes me think that they took the scene of the sirens, this basic idea of like, here's a song that will cause you to jump out of a boat, jump out of a car, you'll lose your life to pursue it, to get closer and closer to the sense of music. It's like they took that idea of the power of music and then wrapped it around the entire thing. Right? Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That it's all about a siren song. And I feel like when you're not trying to literalize it and be like, beat for beat, here's the odyssey, then you can get to those larger ideas. And you can take the sirens and you can turn them in a little bit of Circe too, who's like, maybe changing human beings into frogs instead of pigs. I love that. And I think this idea that your life, you are always going. On adventures. And there's choices that you make in each one of those adventures and they will define you, right? And you can kind of recommit yourself in different ways. And I feel like that's part of the baptism. I think that that's also part of, you know, when they take that frog and they're going to care for the frog and they're going to make it, you know, they didn't just leave their friend, you know, they made this choice. It could have been easier to leave them. Then they go back and get them again, you know, to kind of pull them out of that prison. I love this idea that you're. You're constantly changing who you are or you can change and change quickly. Maybe that's part of it too, right? Like, you aren't just the same person. And maybe we're damned if we don't want to change. And maybe that's why we go to that bank robber, you know, Babyface, you know, George. Is it George Nelson? Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's a real person. Yeah. Right. Yes. So Babyface, like, Babyface is fighting so hard against what people are labeling him. As that, like, he can't actually. I don't know. Maybe that's, like, in his demise, it's so clear that maybe there's something about, like, when you don't let yourself change or you don't embrace how people see you, that could hurt you. I don't know. Maybe I'm losing it a little bit here, but. I don't know. I mean, yeah, he rejects being called a guy with a baby face. I love the extra that they hire to, like, whisper. She has the best face. The Coens themselves, are so good at hiring a full ensemble of just interesting people to look at. But Babyface, yeah, real person. Babyface's story, by the way, he was arrested for the first time when he was 12 years old because he accidentally shot his friend in the face. And he was kind of like a clone a little bit of Bonnie and Clyde, where he drove around the country robbing banks with his wife, Helen. He wound up dying in a shootout with one of the agents who had killed Dillinger. And then he killed that agent who had killed Dillinger, but he was. was hit. He died in a safe house with his wife. And his. I think this part's really sad. His wife had to leave him behind in a ditch, his body, because he was dead and they couldn't take him with him. She wrapped him in a blanket because he hated being cold. I think that's really sad and sweet. Yeah. But I think that, from what I've heard, he and his wife, Helen, had a true love story. A little sad Helen's not here. I think it is pretty funny that he hates cows. Cows. I hate cows. Oh, George. Not the livestock. I also love that when he gets lynched at the end or gathered up by, like, the group of avenging townspeople, you just hear someone in the back yell, cow killer. Yeah. Oh, when that cow is in that. When the cow is at the end of that, I thought that was so. made me laugh so, so hard. But I guess, you know, to a certain point, you know, he is. You know, he. He loves the spectacle. He is a violent man, right? But he's got this energy to him and, you know, and I guess maybe. You know, I'm. Sorry, like, let me say this. I'm glad that their love is there. And I think, you know, when I'm looking at him and trying to figure out, like, what is his Achilles heel? Like, well, his Achilles heel is that he is, you know, essentially. That's like. It's like, don't call me chicken from Back to the Future, right? Like, it's like, that's the one thing that kind of, you know, gets him going. Are you saying Achilles heel? Because that's an Iliad thing. I was. I mean, there it was. I mean, because he is, right? That was you? That's your version of subtly entering into. I mean, that's it. You know, I said it in enough way that I knew it was connected, but I didn't draw much of a larger connection to it. I was like, I hope I'm using this right way. But I do think that, like, he is. You know, this idea of, like, how we remember people, like, you know, Billy the Kid and Babyface is like, these are violent, violent people, but they're going around, they're performing them their own story, right? They're telling their story of who they want to be, and then we just accept it, too. So maybe that's just back to perception again. These are the moments that make Nordstrom Nordstrom. Endless summer escapes start here. Travel the worlds of Netflix IRL. Inspired by fanfare. Favorites like Stranger Things and Squid Game. Brave the upside down. Face off with the front man. Play leveled-up arcade games. Shop exclusive merch. And enjoy themed food and drinks. Beat the heat. Play, eat, and shop on repeat at Netflix House at Galleria Dallas. Bring your crew and save. Get your tickets today at netflix.com slash house. I mean, Paul, can I tell you something? Yeah. Since I watched this movie, I have done nothing but sing these bluegrass songs to my cat. Oh. Who tends to really like them. Because, you know, my cat meows around when he likes a song. I know, yeah. He like meows with me every course. He loves the man from Constant Sorrow. Just loves it. He has not gotten tired of meowing whenever I sing it. That song has a really interesting history, you know, because it was T-Bone Burnett who went and gathered a bunch of this music that then became a giant bestseller, which is wild to imagine how big the soundtrack was. I remember. Peeting out Outkast. I remember. Are you serious? Oh, yeah. But, yeah. I mean, there's so many neat stories just connected to it. Like, the Man of Constant Sorrow song, that was first written in 1907 from everything he's been able to trace back by this, like, coal miner who got beaten up by a railroad tramp. He was left to die. He just wrote down his lyrics. The lyrics wound up being in the hands of, of all things, a blind banjo player. Then they eventually made their way to this folklorist, and then it became this American standard where you can hear it. The first time it was ever recorded was in 1928. I want to play a little waterfall of, it's starting in 1968, and then two people who sang it next. I am a man of constant sorrow. I've seen trouble all my days. I'll say goodbye to Colorado, where I was born. Partly raised before. In this world I'm bound to ramble. There are no friends in me now. Yeah. Man from Constant Sorrow. It gets picked up by Bob Dylan. He records it on his very, very, very first album that he ever did. And then the last one, Miley Cyrus. Gotta have her in it doing the song. Wow. This is wild. I know. I should have my cat do it. Yeah. Or even like that very first song that you hear in the movie starts, you know, when the chain gang is singing right here. That has a really interesting story where that's an original recording that T-Bone Burnett had heard that was recorded in the 1950s. Back when there was the very famous musical folklorist, Alan Lomax, who would go around. He would go around recording music, asking people to record music that they remembered, handing tape recorders to people. He handed this tape recorder to an inmate at a prison and said, can you record what you guys are singing on the chain gang? And this guy did. And that is the original recording. This man named James Carter, he recorded that in a prison in Mississippi, the real one. And they wound up finding James Carter, you know, 50 years later when this album came out to like give him a royalty check. He was just a guy working in Chicago. Surprised, and this really changed his life. The convicts were singing it when I got there. They probably had been singing it years before I got there. I'm proud of it now. Because it gave me a piece of money I wouldn't have had if I hadn't sung. It put a smile on my family's face. That's the big thing. They flew James Carter to the Grammys and it was the very first time he was ever on an airplane. wow. Isn't that just amazing? I'm just sitting back enjoying this story. Wow. That's really fascinating. And we didn't milkshake duck him, right? Nothing bad happened with James Carter. He didn't, it wouldn't turn out to be like a serial killer. A lot of the times when we find some people. Yeah. Yeah. He put, I think the money into his local church. His, his daughter is also in the interview that I played. She's wonderful. And yeah, like, but the sense that this music is alive, even that the people who sang this music was still alive when it came, when the movie came out, it's just, it's amazing. Cause it feels like ancient and new at the same time. We're still living in times where politicians and endorsements and all of that matters a lot. It's, I mean, it's ridiculous. Yeah. And I think that it's interesting to put so many themes that are universal that have stayed with us for a long time in the past. I think we were looking at it. And I think when you look at the Coen brothers resume, you see that they often go back to the And to me, I think that there is, you know, I guess the sense of, well, in the past things were better. Right. And I hate to go back to this phrase, but that make America great again, take the Trump out of it. It doesn't make a difference about Trump, but there is a thing that like, well, in the past things were better. It was easier in the past. And I think what the Coen brothers often show by going in the past is like, Nope, it was all there. There were still people. Yeah. There were, there were, um, you know, money troubles, there was status anxiety, you know, their rituals, there's everything. Right. And then when the story that we tell ourselves is like, Oh, it was easier, but that's the story. And that's what everybody in this movie does tells a story of something that makes them, you know, look better or feel better about where they came from or what they did. It justifies it in some way. And it's so easy to say, well, the past was different. Well, it's the past is different because you are telling a version of that story to make sense with where you are now. And I think by constantly uncovering it, there's a little bit of relief. Like we've been here, we've done this. I think that's why sometimes the most important journalist I want to hear from, and I don't even know if you consider him a journalist is like Ken Burns. Ken Burns is like, yeah, we've done this. And he's like, this is probably how it will end. You know, cause like, and this is probably where we'll go. Go on here. Cause it's like, Oh, there's a familiarity with like, history does repeat itself. We do get into patterns. It never feels like, uh, it always feels like it's the first time. Yeah. That's one of my favorite thoughts. That's, that's what gives me more comfort than anything. Uh, just knowing that people have made it through this and survived and made it through worse and survived. It's probably why my favorite books, a lot of them are like James Missioner books. Oh yeah. You know, just like these epic stories about history with like rise and fall and rise and fall and rise and fall. And one place which, Oh, James Missioner is the best, um, for that, you know, something like the source where you just watch a town get destroyed over a thousand years and keep building itself back up and people making the same mistakes. Like, and that's why I think it's so fascinating. Cause you know, when that's Cohen's take this story, set it in the past. And then we all at the time, it feels like missed the point of what they're getting at. That's fascinating. Cause you would want to think when you tell a story and set it in the past, the distance allows us to see the themes better. Like it becomes more like a myth. Cause if you make the story and set it today, people get cranky. Like we're not like that. We don't do that. That's not how this works. You find the quibbles when something is set in the present day, right? You compare it against what you know, you figure out why it's wrong. But when it's farther away and you're not as familiar, I think it's easier often to see the themes. I just find it fascinating how much I miss them, you know? But you know what? I think part of it is a great movie will always hit differently in the different times. You watch it, but I also think, you know, we're so accustomed, especially in the streaming age, we watch and we forget, right? Everything is disposable. You know, what's next Friday? Oh, there's five other things that are out on three different streaming platforms. And this is a movie. It's like, yeah, you got to watch it and you'll walk away with the first version of it. And you watch it again, you'll walk away with maybe a little bit more and then you keep on watching it. And it, it's really deep filmmaking. I think it's sort of like the way that people talk about Kubrick and the Cone. The Cones are very similar. They, they make their films to hold up to a standard, a legacy. There's more than what meets the eye. And I think that that's true with many great directors, but especially with them, the Kubrick and, and, uh, you know, Kubrick and the Cones, I feel like have a strong, you know, belief that like, don't worry one day this will all even make more sense to you, but you have to put the time in. It's like a great text, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Make a bold statement, but I think, I mean, I don't think there's a Coen brothers movie that gets worse when you watch it again. I think there's a lot of movies that get worse when you watch them twice. Yes, I agree. It's like the logic of movies can fall apart very quickly under examination. It's like, um, or, you know, oh, that doesn't make any sense. The, this is all shored up. It all makes a lot of sense. Um, and it's a bummer that this was polarizing, but certainly didn't affect what they wanted to do. I don't think that they're ever affected by, uh, by what they wanted to do. No. I mean, I think they deliberately encourage people to get annoyed by them. Right. Like, oh, do you want another Fargo? Well, you're not getting one. Right. I mean, that's, that's been their thing the whole time. We haven't done no country. I'm sure someday we'll do no country, but to go from no country to burn after reading, I mean, it's hilarious. They're just like, ha ha, take that. You wanted another one of those serious Texas violent dramas. You are not getting it. I mean, and, and this is why I feel like we'll keep on watching them and the images of this, movie are stunning roger deakins's work on this is amazing like you said they were able to like run this through digital processing to really create that like kind of dust bowl look movie is uh and this is a movie sadly that i did watch on three different screens uh television ipad and iphone and uh and it looks it looks great on every one of them uh it was a tricky day it was a tricky day wow well can i tell you something that i came across a little new snippet from june of 2001 an important time in laker history lakers win a championship oh yeah yeah sure tiny news brief from the los angeles times quote the lakers viewed oh brother where art thou this week phil jackson spliced in educational basketball clips just to keep the film session lively in part it was supposed to represent the laker journey to the brink of their championship said jackson the odyssey the little things that go on the trials i also want these guys to have some decent music in their ears and give them an opportunity to wither under some bluegrass and country and then they went on and beat the 76ers and got a ring well there you go you know what god bless the lakers uh they'll need it anyway so hey no uh all right amy what uh what a great conversation what a great film i'm so happy that we got a chance to re-watch this well that was some fun though wasn't it george yeah almost makes me wish i hadn't been saved jacking up banks i can see how a fella derive a whole lot of pleasure and satisfaction out of it it's okay who doggies all right amy let's take a little bit of a break from watching movies well i guess we could be watching the brand new apple tv film uh the dink with jake johnson and mary steam virgin because next week we have a special sit-down chat with director josh greenbaum who you know from movies like will and harper barb and star go to vista del mar and the upcoming space balls too so we have a really good time with you guys and we'll see you next week bye bye so we have a really fun chat with him and uh i think you might even enjoy the interview a little bit more if you watch the dink beforehand all right well you can continue this discussion about oh brother or arthur on our free sub stack like i said check out our youtube page at get unschooled uh we also have merch you go to unspooled.dashree.com check out what we got and amy this show would not be possible without our amazing producers unspooled is produced by amy nicholson paul sheer molly reynolds and harry nelson sound engineered by cory barton music by devin bryant episode art by kim troxell show art by lee jameson and social media production by zoe applebaum this is a roam production see you next week bye for now endless summer escapes start here travel the worlds of netflix irl inspired by fan favorites like stranger things and squid game brave the upside down face off with the front man play leveled up arcade games shop exclusive merch and enjoy themed food and drinks beat the heat play eat and shop on repeat at netflix house at galleria dallas bring your crew and save get your tickets today at netflix.com slash house tammy regularly hauls stuff to her kids at college that's why she shops at bj's wholesale club saving up to 25 off grocery store prices beef jerky microwave meals laundry pods even they can't screw up have you met my kids and with bj's gas she gets there for less they call me the road warrior this is your home road warrior mom home of the save join for just twenty dollars at bj's.com slash mesquite and save 10 cents per gallon for six months open soon limited time offer new members only bj's home of the save