Nuggets of Wisdom with the ORCA

(upbeat music) - Hello everyone. Welcome to another episode of "Becoming a Professional". I'm your host, Megha Prasadiyah. Riley's behind the camera working the equipment as we're according from Orlando, Florida. - Hey guys, how's it going? - So before we introduce our special guest today, let's go through our usual housekeeping. This episode is brought to you by the National Chapter of Bed Officer, an enormous appreciation for their support. Please make sure to sign up for the alumni member network if you haven't already, so we can easily connect and have y'all experience all of the benefits that the network has to offer. And then disclaimer, the opinions on this podcast are our own and may not reflect the position of Bed Officer or our respective employers as a whole. So without further ado, today's episode, we have a very special guest, Electro from the University of Auckland, the business school of Auckland, sorry. He is also a Bed Officer as Oceania region. - I'm looking forward to you trying to say my surname, so let's go. - Oh, he let's go, no pressure man, go. - Oh, I was just about to say Fred. - The Orca, right? The Orca, Fred, excellent. - Excellent, full marks, full marks. Brilliant, okay. So straight into the origin story, we love a good origin story, so Fred, we've worked for a long time, but I still don't really know much of your origin story. - We haven't now talked about myself before to you. - Or Quidd, okay. - Well clearly, I'm not special enough then, but where did you start? - Yep. - How did it all come about, like that journey? - Yeah, so my origin story, as it relates to a Bed Officer, Orca, my career and all that. So how it all began is, I can't myself very blessed. When you gave me this problem, I was thinking, I was thinking about what I was gonna say. I can't myself very blessed that my parents had always made sure to think, what Fred, you do what you want to do in life. I don't mind what it is. Think about what you are passionate and energetic about and go ahead and do that. So I'm very blessed to do that. But unfortunately, me being me, it's been any blessing into a curse and any curse into a blessing said, "Well, I like too many things. "I pick up hobbies like it changes weather in Auckland "or changes weather in Orlando. "Every hour I'll pick up something new." So but anyway, at the end of my high school, I had whittled it down to two things I wanted to do. Firstly, to enter the restaurant, hospitality industry, chef, whatever, or study business at university. There you go. The clincher was realising that one of these makes a better hobby than the other. Cooking is a better hobby than doing accounting. Yes. Cheafly because you can't practice without training, et cetera. So then I decided that was the mix I'll do. I'll study accounting business subjects at university. Right. At university, I started with accounting economics and finance as subjects I was considering. But then listen to that, that ongoing parent narrative, which is very helpful in this case, to just follow what interested me. Right. Economics and finance, I did well at, but were too heavy into calculus, which I can do, but not my strong suit. So I pursued accounting as my course of study, as my course of major, which is slightly ironic because my accounting grades were never as good as my economics and finance grades. But listening to what I cared about personally, led to that. Then when it came to my major starting to finish, my study, starting to finish, I realised I didn't want to go into practice because another of my latent true loves came about. True loves in terms of career and profession came about, which is to teach. So the idea of teaching accounting, being in an education space, was more interesting to me. So that's segway into studying a postgraduate degree and honors degree to a PhD. And now here I am. There we go. I've done all my studies and all my career at one place, University of Auckland. Wow. Did I give you a commission? I am paid to be there. Well, true. So how about the exposure to beta alpha side, though? How did that come about? Yep. So exposure to beta alpha side. One of the things I love to do is help my colleagues. And I remember one day, one of my colleagues, Julie Harrison, who was the previous-- Orca. Yeah. Or she in a regional chapter advocate. We love the term Orca, though. It's not a bad term, is it? Yes. And I'm glad that you're talking it up, because the Orca term, Oceania region chapter advocate, was coined by me. So of course, of course, I loved it. It's a fun fact. Fun fact. Because we were trying to say what's a faster way of saying it, the letters worked out, so there we are. So I still remember you actually said that to me all those years ago, right? Like, you introduced yourself as the Orca. Yeah. I did coined the term. Right, no wonder. I thought it was a big, big secret revealed that it was me. So now I finally know. Anyway. So Julie was looking a little bit more flustered at the end of the day than I remember her, typically looking. OK. So I said, oh, Julie, what's going on? Is there anything else I can help with? Anything I can help with? And she said, oh, well, I'm organising a conference for-- which it turned out to be beta-office. I just didn't know what those letters meant at the time. And so I said, OK, can I help? So I helped with some organising, some printing, some formatting. And she said, oh, Fred, why don't you come along to the event? I think you'll get a lot out of it. And so that was-- it turned out to be the regional meeting, now called mid-year meeting, at Auckland. I came along who are all these talented, diligent, energetic students intriguing, tell me more. That led to the pathway of maybe we can get you on board as a co-advisor, eventually than a faculty advisor, and now a giant advocate. Nice, nice. So this was the 2017 meeting, is that right? I try not to think how long ago some things are, but I believe you would be correct. Fun fact, that was my first time I was in New Zealand, like that meeting. OK, that explains why you remember it. Yeah, exactly. I do remember it. And also, I do remember the Orchitem started there. So now I know. Anyway, I'm just going to remember that. But yeah, actually, I do wonder, what is it like to serve as a chapter advocate? Yeah, all levels of amazing and wonderful and hard work. I guess it's a brief summary of that. Good, yep, yep. Then when pressed for more details, practically, what I do is eye bridge between the strategic, the top level arm of beta alpha site, which is the executive office, the president, the board, and how that gets implemented in practicality in day-to-day terms. So the chapter advocates serve as the bridge between what the board directs to the faculty advisors. So we are the coaches and the mentors for the faculty advisors, who then look after the majority of the club, which is the student body. So that goes up, down. It also goes down up. As issues are raised by students, then go to faculty advisors, weed, and package that up, and take issues to the board. Practically, that's what I do. There are meetings involved with a lot of passionate, wonderful people. There is paperwork to fill out and all that sort of thing. So that's practicality to actually come back to the question you actually asked, what's it like being a chapter advocate? The analogy I've settled on, it's like you're a sled driver for a whole pack of highly energetic, very strong Alaskan Huskies. They have energy, they have passion, they have drive. They will run faster and do more than anything. You could possibly do a dream off. And it is so therefore my job to pull as hard as I can under the reins to prevent burnout and to make sure we're all moving in the same direction. So it's such a delight because you are surrounded by people who care so deeply about these things. And so my blessed job is to say, all right, let's get the sled going in a good direction. Let's keep everyone from running away wildly and from tiring themselves out too much. There we go, there we go. I mean, yeah. So we have a lot of listeners, students, like faculty advise, I guess to the faculty advises listening to this, like what advice would you give them? Actually, first of all, why should they become a chapter advocate and also what advice would you give them? Yeah. So why to become a chapter advocate? I think one of the main reasons we see people becoming chapter advocates is because they have a delight, a fulfilling and a rich time as faculty advisors. And the opportunity comes up because there's a bit more space in their career or there's a bit more stability or the opportunity rises. And they say, yes, I'd like to take that next step. I'd like to give a bit more to the region. As to why it becomes fulfilling, a lot of faculty advises, as I've just mentioned, get a lot out of a lot of fulfillment, contribution, et cetera, working with a lot of students. It's like that, but meta. So you are now able to help guide coach lead mentor, others who are also doing this work. So it's a very amplifying effect. Faculty advises, the ideal model, we don't do everything ourselves. We work with students, we work with partners to get the mission going. Like that at the next level. Right. How can you work with faculty advisors, empower them, share best practices, share stories, have a bit more say in getting these people to work together? So if you find yourself addicted to making a difference and empowerment, and would like to get it to the next level, the chapter advocate position is a natural next step. There you go. Only one of us per region, which means that in smaller regions like Oceania, nine, soon to be 10 chapters, the opportunity comes up more often. I see, if need over there, I don't know if we allow to draw attention to people behind cameras. Our region has 75 chapters. So put your hand up. There we go. OK, OK. You mentioned one word that I really want to pick on for a mentor. Mentor, right? Like mentor, it's important for mentor. And I have had the joys of seeing your wonderful mentoring programs that you've run in the University of Auckland, wearing the faculty advisor hat, I think, not the chapter. It would be the fact if you had it right. You were so many hats, which is a delightful analogy to bring up, because in my personal style, I do not wear hats. So at least professionally, I can wear lots of hats. Carry on. Yes. But mentoring, you are really graded. Sort of setting up all these mentoring programs. So I guess, what's the secret source? And I guess, do you want to share for the benefit of our listeners what the mentoring program looks like at the University of Auckland? Yeah. And how does that compare when you see other mentoring programs throughout our region, like within Monash, Melbourne, but also, like, broadly through your interactions as chapter advocate with the other, like, you know, different regions, like mentoring programs, right? How do they? So there is no secret source. Or, if you want to use the analogy of the hamburger chain, it is advertised as secret, but it's ketchup, mustard pickle, and mayonnaise. So it's a structure, which just draws on a lot of very core common practices. So what we do at the University of Auckland is we have a structure where I, or when I was faculty advisor, now Julie, will work with the leadership team, right? Just to talk about questions such as, what do you see coming out of the year ahead as leadership? What are your career intentions reflect briefly on your skips, your strengths and weaknesses? And then, rather than us doing a mentoring work, what we do is we just body them up. And what we do is we body them up with somebody who has been an alumni, ideally who has served equivalent or similar positions, to then get that connection going through. So then, when I was running it, I would have a coffee, or dinner, or lunch ketchup with them to say, all right, let's get you all comfortable talking to each other. I'll ask a few coaching questions around. So, what are you afraid of in life? So, what are you deeply insecure about? And then, I will leave that to-- Well, what you see, I assume you may have gathered from the past 20 minutes, have very little shame when it comes to asking or presenting things. But these are important questions in around mentorship. So then, after that, after I beat it up or win free, I then left them to go and work amongst themselves. So, a few key arms there. It's just opening that conversation between like and like. So, as faculty advisor with that longer history, I can broker and see these relationships. It is asking a few probing questions to get to richer conversations faster. And then, giving them space, because I am only one person. And I like the rest of you all-- I'm a mere mortal. We have 24 hours a day, seven days a week. Surprise, surprise. Yes. Surprise, surprise, despite all wearing the hats. Yes. OK, OK. So then, when it comes to what other chapters are rolling out, it is more and more just because I'm very evangelical about this model. And my mentees, the people that have been mentors and mentees are also very sharing about this, have also started rolling out very similar processes. But other common models that we see are-- so just within that leadership team, within the student leadership team, the president, co-president, et cetera, will serve as coaches to students. Or maybe after a particular session with professional partners, the professional partner will be approached or approached students to say, shall we do some coffee catch ups and mentorships and so on. And then the other very common model is that the faculty advice has one-on-one time with particular students as needed. I would counsel that as deeply passionate as you may be personally to do mentorship, you are-- I'm sorry to say-- only one person. Yes. And so a lot of value comes around-- when the opportunity, when the chance comes to you, to broker relationships, to broker potential mentorships. Because the joy of brokering is that you don't have to literally do it yourself. Nice. But the other joy of it is that it has a gratifying, amplifying effect. I can see all these connections grow up. And it also is helpful because it's that nudge for a student to say, why don't we organize your mentor? And they go, oh, I never thought I'd be important enough or valuable enough to have a mentor. That's not just that. Then you also talk to the mentor to say, I think you'd be great for this. And there's a similar parallel effect there of, oh, I'm very new to my job. My only qualifications are, I had a similar role to them. What am I going to do as a mentor? So there's that dual empowerment of the mentee. Yes, you are worth being invested in. The mentor, yes, I think you can give back to a lot. Wow. Yeah, that's secret sauce, I guess. Yes, which is just a mix of ketchup, mayo, a bit of mustard and pickle. That's it, that's it. So in addition to mentoring, how else can, I guess, we get the students and alumni to pay it forward? So I think that little model in and around, everybody, who's passionate, diligent, works hard, et cetera, has had life experiences, all they have to do is just reflect on that. And then there are avenues and channels therefore in which they can give back. And I think it's a case of when you're looking to pay it forward, pay attention to all these team members around you, and give them that very firm, but very reassuring, push that, I think you can take the next step. I think you can help out. I think you can mentor. I think you can be chapter advocate and so on. Why don't you give it a go? It's freaky. I know what can we do there? Again, this comes back down to it. We're all kind of only one person, unless you're a conjoined twin, but then you are constrained by physicality. And that comes with other issues. But I think they're literally classified as two people. So that will not go down that rabbit hole. I think that amplifying effect, that coaching, that mentoring, that brokering relationships, is a way of paying it forward, which I think I don't think a lot of people think that way. Yes, brokering, like being able to provide your sort of connections, sort of intermediary, an agent, a connector, a facilitator, has a lot of benefit, and it's not a common role. So I guess, why is it important to engage the students in alumni and the first place? Yeah. So by engaging, you mean to reach out into a-- To reach out, interact, to have that one-on-one conversation with them, and really get them to engage. I mean, as a lecturer, I'm thinking about lecturing. You can deliver a class to 100 students and done, right? I would love to deliver to a class of 100. The University of Auckland was very blessed with large class sizes. So as much as I love teaching and marking for 350 students, it would be nice to-- a third of the class, they have only 100 students, but I understand our market is a bit different. So as you may have gathered, I am somebody that gets a lot out of interaction, human engagement, connections, and so on. And so at a personal level, I get a lot of enrichment. The cup is full, the battery is recharged, and so on. And so that's why I have always been drawn to it. I think when it comes to-- if you are naturally extroverted, never confident about that term, but if you are naturally a bit more extroverted, having these connections and being intentional about how it fits into a personal purpose, personal strategy, very useful. There is a case of then bringing energy uplift, detection of problems, and motivation to others around you. Use your energy for good, spread it for good, and so on. That's why I found it useful and why I encourage others who are more gregarious to do that, add a bit of intentionality to it. At the same time, there are also those who have the labeled introversion, again, never fully sure about that term, for which these things are a bit more of a struggle. As somebody who is extroverted with an introverted partner, introverts have a phenomenal amount to bring to the world. Turns out if what you do as a chief operation is to sit, reflect, do diligent work, you have something very important to say and very important to share. And so for those situations, it's a case of landing, perspective, insight, structure, and then also critically, making sure that you yourself are seen and welcomed into the world. It's scary, I know, kind of why I spend a lot of time facilitating and brokering, so that people like me who will talk all day, and then suffer to resource throughout the next few days, but then talk through it anyway, and we'll invite the voices of those that are naturally a little bit more quiet, and empower them. And empower them. So thinking about those models, thinking about what some people bring to the party, what other people bring to the party, I think that bringing together of these people is always useful, which is why when it comes to-- so why do we think it's important to guard and engage? It's because people are brought together and talking. Yes, and that's a key skill, like communication, and you said empower to give them that sort of voice, potentially, like help them with public speaking, even, right? Yeah, public speaking. I like every other human out there and utterly terrified of public speaking. I tell all my students-- Don't look at them. Thank you, thank you. Thank you. 37 years of practicing from birth, not to let fear show. That has other issues. So baggage, but we won't talk about those. So one of the things I always tell my students to say, oh, Fred, I love the way you teach. I love the energy you bring. How do you do it? And then I let them in on the open secret open because I'm telling everybody. And I do tell everybody. When I am prior, just moments before getting ready to teach, there is a deep and thorough anxiety and flight response in me. I just want to quit the room. I just want to leave. Can we not just have recorded this and go? I understand that it's an entirely normal response because you're about to be judged. You're about to present yourself. You're about to be put out there. One of the moments I remember watching on Netflix because I am a human and I watch Netflix is the Jennifer Lopez getting ready for the halftime Super Bowl show. OK. A very enjoyable documentary. And one of the scenes I remember is that moment just before they got to perform. Yeah. Super talented, super wonderful years and years and years of practice. And they've rehearsed for this endlessly. And they're just to look on their faces of, oh my gosh, what's going on, like jumping, relieving nerves. So they have it, too. So of course, we will have it, too. So when it comes to practice and public speaking, can we do go? Yes. It's show time. Absolutely. If J-Lo can do it, you can do it too. J-Lo is going on the show now. It's, I guess, that's right. Please don't ask me what the name of that documentary is because it has escaped from my short-term memory. I'm just going to have to Netflix that after this. You can use any of the powerful search tools out there to find it. Yes. And that's what I was actually going to ask next. You know, like, I mean-- Well, Jennifer Lopez is next documentary. I've just told you I don't know the title of it. I was just going to say the powerful search tools. I mean, you inferring AI, perhaps, or something like that. More broadly, though, before we get into the AI rabbit hole, like, right, given your experience. SA Zodiac, Chinese Zodiac Rabbit. I've always wondered about the use of the term rabbit hole. OK. Tunnel? Tunnels. Tunnels. Other words, we could use that labyrinth or maze, but, you know. OK, sorry. OK, before we go down-- why don't we carry on with the conversation rather than me, which is for the people at home. This is something I enjoy doing to Mingala. I enjoy enriching vocabulary and experience. Yes, absolutely. I absolutely need it. And you know what? And the other thing I enjoy doing is making the back of house behind the camera people laugh. And the more they stifle, they laugh, they're the better. OK, sorry. You can edit that out for yourself. That is-- On our own, we're keeping this in. Also, Netflix, please sponsor us. Continue. All right, cool. OK, so-- Yeah, all right. You were talking about rabbit holes. Yes, we told you. But before we did that, we were going to-- we were going to take a step back. And I guess, like, given your many years of experience of teaching and educating and your profound knowledge, I'm used to all of the golden nuggets of wisdom that you're dropping, but I'm never tired of them because they're always very innovative. So I guess what pieces of advice can you give to the students listening around what are the key skills? Like, I mean, we mentioned communication, public speaking. What other skills, like do you think AI is one of them? What are some of the stuff that you think is going to be super relevant for the students that are about to graduate in the next two, three years? I'm going to give you what many people consider a very unexpected answer to come from somebody like me. And it's not a new piece of wisdom. It has predated us to many structures of philosophy and belief. And that's self-reflection. I think that idea of, we can look at this very practically, what am I good at? Where do my skills lie? Where do my talents lie? Excellent starting place, which Dan says, therefore, what are the practical skills I'm going to train in? What are the strengths I'm going to further leverage? What are the weaknesses that I would choose to offset? With strengths or with training or what have you? And therefore, move on. That does not practically come about from listening to a podcast. It's a very useful knowledge to listen to podcasts, to think about, therefore, what are some skills? What are some ideas? What are some values that resonate with me? Which I will then reflect on and pursue. But then when it comes to all sorts of grand questions, what are all the new trends I ought to care about? What are-- how do I manage work-life balance? I prefer the term work-life integration, but that's a different topic. How do I deal with conflicts that come about? I've got a difficult, ethical dilemma in front of me. What do I do? Self-reflection. What sits true with me? What is my list of virtues? Where do I stand on particular issues? Is a skeleton key? Is universal currency for all of these things? So self-reflection is fundamentally very boring. Because the way one self-reflects-- yes, you can journal. Yes, you can go through apps and all that. But the way one self-reflects is to sit there and do nothing and whatever mad thoughts, whatever-- I love to wear neuroses. Whatever neuroses come to mind, whatever-- this scientific term-- whatever autobiographical thinking comes to mind, you listen to it with kindness, with patience, and see what happens. So self-reflection is how I'd answer that question, a bit weird, given the tattiness, the talkativeness that I have. I'm counselling, not talking for a bit. That's the golden nugget for the day, like self-reflection. I think-- no, I agree. I think self-reflections are a very important skill to have. I guess back to the whole beta-office, I think. Because this is the beta-office podcast. And we're both-- we both love beta-office. So what are some of the key skills that beta-office can sort of help train its members to have and make them workforce ready? And how does that set them apart from other organizations? Do you want my perspective as a faculty advisor or a chapter advocate or somebody who works in industry, university is a workplace, so we can think about that. I will take any and every answer that you want. You'll take any and every answer that you'll get. OK, let me quickly throw it right back at you. Let me quickly prioritize what I would consider the most important. OK. What I adore about beta-office in parallel, in substitution, with other organizations, other environments, is that it brings together a lot of people sharing a common pathway, common objective, which is the definition of a group. For what's very useful for this for students is that it is a career readiness organization like many out there, working parallel substitution. But I enjoy that breadth, that organization-- the breadth that this organization gives, and that pipeline, that storyline, that throughline that exists. So a lot of other student organizations have a lot of technical topics. They have a lot of great focus topics that they care about. One of the selling points of beta-office, was that because there's a faculty advisor, there is a stronger throughline that goes through. As one cohort of leaders has their wonderful set of initiative, the BD Alaskan Husky, they run around. We have all those wins. We have all those learnings. That gets preserved. That gets captured and brought through. So that is an immense advantage that we have, because it brings that throughline through people from the start of the University of College experience. Through to, they become alumni. And when you become an alumni, you're very busy. Other things happen in your life. And you would love to give back to your organization, your alma mater, but you don't necessarily have that time. Or it's on your to-do list. But then other things appear on top of you to-do list. So the structure of beta-office, being housed within a department, being supported by a faculty advisor, I think gives a lot of difference and a lot of value in and around it. There we go. There we go. I was going to say we should plug the alumni to try and get more involved, even though they're busy, but-- I mean, they're busy. But who isn't busy? Exactly. Even if you say, all I do is sit around and play video games, that's a formal busy. Everybody is very busy. That's it. That's it. Look, thank you for-- Oh, sorry, one last question. Oh, OK. One last question. Not worthy of thanks yet, OK. What is your favorite beta-office memory? My favorite beta-office memory. In addition to Auckland 2017. Which, I don't know, is that your-- I'm sorry to say. I had a gallery that is not my favorite beta-office memory. Oh, man. Everybody has different, different favorites. So my favorite beta-office memory-- you'd prompted me on this. And then, in contrast to every other thing, which I've thought about before, I haven't really thought about this one. But luckily, you prompted me. So I can think-- I had thought about it. So I'll answer this in two ways. The first way is that every ongoing moment, every lived and now imprisoned moment, is such a delight. Because one of the things I'm trying to practice is, here and now, in contrast to ruminating or laying a golden luster or sheen on-- the word is nostalgia. That's the word I'm looking at, coming from, on the past, around what was wonderful or in contrast to things sac, things so I envision a nicer future. So as part of self-reflection, I'm trying to be a lot more in the present moment, which means that the present moment is always such a good memory to then be replaced by the next present moment. OK, but to answer your question in a more conventional sense, one of the things I enjoy-- I love it, by the way. I love these golden nuggets of wisdom. I'm glad you're on the podcast. I will always answer the question you raise. But sometimes I will choose to also, in addition, answer a different question. So to answer the question in a more conventional manner, one of my favorite memory-- not one of my favorites. You've asked me for my favorite, so I'll give you my favorite-- is when you look back and you see a through line, like almost fated destination that comes about. So I remember when I did my first and only job interview at the University of Auckland, where I still work. I had one other interview before that for a role, which was to be a librarian at high school. But let's not count that. It wasn't a paid position. It was a volunteer just to make sure I was a sensible person. So during my job interview, you always get to the end of these things. And they say, well, Fred, do you have all your name here? Do you have any questions for us? And because I prepared for my job interview, I know they are going to ask this, so I will have an answer. So I said, one of the things I enjoy is coaching and helping encourage great students to excel further. And so if there is anything like that at the University, I would love to get involved in it. I was met by intrigued, but fundamentally polite and blank stairs, from the rest of the committee going, well, we didn't expect anybody to ever say this. How do we answer it? It's been a long day. So I decided-- well, let's let the question slide. OK, I've done my part. I've answered every question from a honest way. So then nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing, comes about it. And then, lo and behold, where do I find myself? I find myself in charge of-- first at University of Auckland now as a region, a student organization that encourages excellence in students and encourages and lifts them up. So sometimes the through line is very neat, but that was my favorite recollection. And the stars are aligning. The thing I wanted was put out there into the universe. And then, many years later, it was given to me. You manifest it. Manifest. Slow manifest, slow manifest. All right, thank you so much, Fred. It's been a delight having you on the podcast. And thank you. I always seek and enjoy opportunities to talk with you, Mangala. So thank you for letting me be here, inviting me to be here. Absolutely. I was like, we've got to get Fred on this podcast. For why? I don't know. Well, precisely for everyone listening in, I'm sure they would agree. It's been a delight listening to all of the golden nuggets of wisdom that you're dropping and also answering things in an unconventional, but then also a conventional manner. Supposedly, because what I think many years ago, you did tell me what defines convention or what defines normal or something like that, right? So that kind of stuck in my head and really led me to a guy that feels like a life craft. This is like an old grandpa in a 37-year-old body, Fred. Well, it was for a few years ago. Feels like an old grandpa thing to say, which is probably why I did say it. Well, I mean, it did cause me to question a quarter-life crisis of thought for the regional meeting, but that's for another topic. Anyway, thank you to everyone for tuning into this week's episode. Please be sure to like, subscribe, and follow us from whatever platform you're tuning in from. Please check out our show notes for our various social media pages and to get your official back. So I, Fred, thank you once again for joining us as our special guest for this week. Sorry, this fortnight has been such a pleasure to hear your story. And as I said, always love to hear your golden nuggets of wisdom. And with that, to our listeners, we'll see you on the next episode of becoming a professional. [MUSIC PLAYING] Hey, everyone. Riley here with the credits. This episode titled "Nuggets of Wisdom with the Orca" was hosted by Mangala Presedia, produced by myself, Riley Ramos, and a company by our special guest, Fred Ung. Music was sourced from Reslu Audio and fine-tune music on Adobe Stock. Huge shout-out to Beta AlphaSci for their financial support and keeping the podcast going strong. If you haven't already, please join the alumni and member network. Details can be found in the show notes. Thanks again for tuning in, and we'll see you on the next episode of becoming a professional. [MUSIC PLAYING] (upbeat music)