Nourishing Traditions | Sally Fallon - E415

Welcome to the Low-Carb MD Podcast. No one is beyond help. No one is beyond hope. Nothing said on the Low-Carb MD Podcast is medical advice. Please consult your own doctor before making any lifestyle changes. [Music] Welcome back to the Low-Carb MD Podcast. We have been talking about many things on this podcast over the last six years, including metabolic health, lowering process carbohydrates and sugar. We've been talking about sticking to real food. We've been saying, you know, question the conventional sort of medical authorities. Always make sure you talk to your doctor, have shared decision-making. We've questioned a lot of things over the past seven years, and we've gotten criticism. We've gotten a lot of criticism, but there were people way before us doing this. There were people that we've stood on the giants of. There were people who've been questioning medicine and demanding the nutrition be part of the medical curriculum for decades. And I'm not talking about vitamin deficiencies, I'm talking about what did indigenous people who are healthy eat? What does it take to be healthy? And you know, we've talked about Western price before, and today we have the founding president of the Western A-Price Foundation. It is my absolute honor and pleasure to bring on the no-founding president, Sally, Fallon Morelle. I've met her in Washington, D.C., not too long ago, where we collaborated in hopefully changing policy in a positive direction in this country, so we can get this country healthy, disease-free, and reverse the chronic disease epidemic. Now, I'll say in advance, we made this a great, and I can't wait to talk about all those disagreements. But I would love to hear for more first, I'd like to say welcome. Thank you. We will have her books in the show notes, so please go take a look at our books, and some of those books include grains and include tubers and include certainly avoid artificial sweeteners. We certainly believe in bearing opinions here, and I'm delighted, absolutely delighted, to have Sally join us today, so I'm just so thankful you agreed to stoop yourself to our level. No, no, I'm not. Brian Message-Me, you can't make it. And he's an internist out in Arizona, and he's just a huge door of supporter of the Western A-Price Foundation. So he sends his regards to Dr. Brian Lenskiy, so we're both so excited to have you here. So maybe we could start with, before we get into it, I think we'll start with where you want it to go, which is, you're like, "Trow, I'm not that low-car." And Western A-Price looked at various cultures and societies, and certainly, we can get into dental carriers, but there are many, many civilizations that thrived on carbohydrates. So maybe we could just start there. This is the low-carb MD podcast, so I'm sure that's an area to start with. I'd love to, at some point, talk about the leadership it took to start the foundation, lead the foundation. I'd love to hear about that as well. But we'll let's start with what's the role. What's the subject at hand? Yeah, that's our answer. So Dr. Price looked at populations all over the globe, indigenous populations, and some of them were indeed hardly any carbs, like the northern Canadians and the Eskimo, and they didn't have plants. Those diets were extremely high in fat, and that's the first thing I would say is if you're going to go very low carb, you really need to eat high fat. But many others were pretty high in carbs, the Swiss had oats, excuse me, Swiss had rye bread, and the galec people had oats, and then in the South seas, you had tubers and fruit. So we never give any hard and fast rules about macronutrients, because well about carbs, put it like that, because there was such a disparity in what he found, what we can all agree on, there were no refined carbs. There was no white flour, no white sugar, no white rice, it was whole grains and tubers and things like that. But the other half of the equation is the nutrient density, and these diets were very high in minerals, and extremely high in the fat-soluble vitamins, AD and K. And we only get those from a few places. We get them from animal fats, especially fats of grass fed animals. We get them from organ meats, and we get them from certain types of seafood, especially shellfish like oysters. There's very nutrient dense foods. So our diet, we don't say, oh, you can't have potatoes, we just say put the butter on the potatoes, put the grass fed butter on the potatoes. We don't say you can't have bread, we say prepare the bread properly by sourdough method, so that it's easy to digest. And we do recommend including in your diet the really high nutrient density foods like liver, oysters, fish eggs, those kind of foods, two or three times a week, those are the real power houses. But otherwise, I eat a diet that includes sourdough bread, potatoes cooked in duck fat, and natural sweeteners, I eat oatmeal, soaked oatmeal with lots of butter on it. So we like to say that the wise tradition is diet, there's no renunciation. It's just knowing how to choose and how to prepare. I'd love to talk about that a little bit. You know, I can't agree with you more. The amount of nutrients and things like oysters, liver, certain nuts and seeds, it's just through the roof. And I think people don't appreciate the fact that a lot of the monocroping that's happened, a lot of the meats that we're eating now there. They're just arrived of the minerals they used to have. And many of the people coming into my clinic, Sally, they're actually nutrient deficient when they walk in. They may be wildly overweight, but they're nutrient deficient. Right. And you can do a low carb diet and still be nutrient deficient. If you're just eating conventional meat and not a lot of fats. I've seen it. Yeah, you can still be nutrient deficient. Low-late deficiency. I've certainly seen it in low carb diners as well when the restriction is really high. And you know, the, it's, you know, rib eye every day, you know, or lean sirloin every day. It's, wait a second. Where do you plan on getting vitamin C from animals with the liver? Right. That was minimally cooked. Right. And filled with folate, you know, vitamin C. Right. So, liver is just such a key food. It's got all B vitamins, including B12. Lots of minerals. It even has vitamin C. And, you know, I know that's a, that's a struggle for lots of people, but there's lots of ways to enjoy liver. And my favorite way is is a pate, chicken liver pate. And by the way, the poultry livers are the best ones because they have so much vitamin K in them. And the, and vitamin D. Whereas beef liver is, there's your vitamin A, but you're not getting vitamin D and vitamin K from beef liver. So, but it's really important to get that in the doubt. I have to tell you a story. We just finished our conference. And a woman brought up a very cute little baby round face. So it was a Western price baby, but the baby was extremely pale. And I said, oh my goodness, this baby needs liver. And they brought the baby up to me the next day. And the baby was pink all over at Rosie's cheeks. And we had served chicken liver pate for one of the meals and they'd given it to her. And just one serving of that chicken liver pate. And it looked like her anemia was fixed. Let me tell you, I love going to the, you know, the steakhouse and, you know, asking for the the unusual cuts, the kidney, the chicken, the chicken liver. I mean, I don't think there's another animal that would exclude those things, right, besides humans. You know, one of the, so I think there's a lot of agreement here, eat nutrient dense food. Certainly, one of the things that I've I found along the way is we live in a very addictive food environment. You know, the way the average person eats, you know, this is not real. Most people with their concept of normal is not normal. Our food is not normal. You're talking about duck patting, duck fat, you know, having liver and that's normal. Like it sounds normal. Do you and me were having a conversation? Someone listeners out there were just getting started with their metabolic health journey or trying to lose weight or trying to just reclaim their health or reverse chronic disease. Yeah. You know, they're used to pizza and birthday cake, right? Yeah. And wash it down with soda. So you know, a lot of times we try to walk people along the path. And you know, this is one of the things I've sought a long, long time about and I want to get your opinion because the extent of chronic disease that we're seeing right now has never been seen before. Yeah. Never been seen. And children is so tragic. Yeah. Well, I can tell you a story about this. People try to use their willpower to stop eating sugar. And we had a gal write us a letter. She said she'd been on our diet for a while and high fat diet. But she still had this one bad habit when she went to the supermarket. She always went to the cookie aisle and got a package of cookies to eat. She said one day she went to the cookie aisle and stood there trying to decide what to buy. And she realized she didn't want the cookies. And she was able to walk away without any willpower. And a good nutrient that didn't diet will eventually do that for you. It will take away your, I look at a package of cookies. And I was a sugar hauler. Believe me, I could eat a package of cookies in five minutes. And now I look at a package of cookies and I actually get kind of nauseous even thinking about it. And there was a study where they took rats and they addicted them to sugar water. And then they gave them a diet that was 40% large. And you know what? The rats didn't want sugar water anymore. And the researchers were kind of disappointed. They were upset because the rats didn't want their tasty treats. And they said they were on a chronic eye fat diet, like making it sound like some terrible thing. But what most people need to get over is their fear of animal fat. And the fear of animal fat has been drummed into a starting in grade school with the dietary guidelines. And until we get the fats back in our diet, we won't have the willpower to resist. Because if we're not eating enough saturated fat, saturated animal fat, the body has a backup plan. And that plan is to make saturated fat out of carbs. And so the body is going to crave sugar and white flour. I can't agree with you more. There's so much evidence that supports this diet's higher in saturated fat. Actually, believe it or not, lower the blood levels of the saturated fat, meaning the body is. They lower triglycerides and they lower blood sugar and they lower cravings, they lower hunger. And our big thing is butter. Don't be afraid of butter. I mean, I eat half a stick of butter a day. And that's what keeps me healthy, I'm sure. And I don't crave these things I used to crave. How much do you think the fear of fat and the fear of cholesterol have, you know, and the embracement of sort of processed carbohydrates, right? How much do you think that this. Would you say that's 100% of our chronic disease epidemic, 90% 80% of those. I would say 80% I would say 80% I mean, there's other things going on. There's environmental poisons, there's EMF, which is very toxic. There's a lot of things going on, but I think you can do 80% of it with diet, with a high fat diet. So you know, what does this look like? It looks like the moderate protein, that's eggs, cheese, meat, organ, meat, seafood. It means moderate carbs. I'm not saying we're overdoing with the carbs, but you can have oatmeal twice a week and you can eat a little bread, sourdough bread, and you can eat some sweet potatoes or potatoes. But the rest of it is fat. Do you worry about the glyphosate, like in the crops, do you worry about that in the. Well, you'd really need to buy organic, for sure. Eat some of your grains because they're sprayed with glyphosate just before harvest. You get the full brunt of them. Now you can't avoid it completely, but another thing that we recommend is bone broth. And that has a lot of glycine, and that'll push out the glyphosate. That's not bone broth. I'm sorry to disappoint you. The chicken bone broth? No, you got to stew longer. Yeah, you need to make your own. You need to make. Yeah. I probably. That'll be my next thing is to do it. I do drink a lot of bone broth, but it's pre-made. You know? Well, maybe tell me the problems with that. Well, it's usually MSG, and it's usually MSG. It's not labeled, but there'll be some hydrolyzed protein or something like that. And that really messes with your brain, MSG. It's not on the label. It must be. It says organic bone broth. Chicken bone broth. Well, put it in the fridge and see if it gels. Oh, it doesn't. No, because there's very little glycine in this very little collagen in it. Right. So I'm going to make my own. That's it. You've inspired me, Sally. I'm going to make my own. And that. I have made my own. It's just, you know, it's tough. It's very difficult, but you've inspired me to do it. It's not actually. Get a good slow cooker. Yeah, I put it in a. I put it in a quarter or ten quart one. I just put it in there. One that can keep the temperature very low. So you do it overnight and you'll get a good gelatinous broth. I had some. I must have eaten something when traveling and I came home and I had it. It was kind of like food poisoning, I guess. And I felt horrible. And I always keep broth in the freezer and I took that out and had a mug of broth. And I mean, I could feel in ten minutes going away. And within ten minutes of drinking that broth. It's funny. My wife was saying the same thing today. Her sister started drinking a lot more bone broth and she's drinking a lot more bone broth. You know, and they've ditched the coffee, picked up the bone broth and they've come up every morning. And they feel great. And their load is down. They feel good. Yep. And of course, coffee is, you know, does the same thing to your adrenal glands that sugar does. Yeah. Boost adrenaline production. But then you have to come back to normal and that's very hard on adrenal glands. Yeah. So can I ask you about your specific diet? You know, you mentioned potatoes, grains, oatmeal. You know, I don't know if you drink juices or not or no, no, no. Yeah. So like, can you give me an example of yesterday, like what you're, what your diet looks like? Like just walk me through. You woke up. You ate that like I was just a simple for the average person listening. It was like, okay, I hear her saying, org and me, I hear her saying, oatmeal, like what is a day or two of your eating look like? Okay. Well, I kind of alternate between eggs or oatmeal. Now this is oatmeal. I've soaked overnight. So it's truly predigested. The mornings I have oatmeal, I usually have a couple of pieces of good natural bacon for the fats. And then the oatmeal I eat with a lot of butter. And I drink some beet kovas in the morning. That's a fermented beet drink. And then for lunch, I usually eat a late lunch. I do intermittent fasting. So I just have two meals. But I have a big lunch. And yesterday I had some pate on sourdough bread with a salad. And then I had some berries with raw cream on them. That was my lunch. Very high fat. So high fat, moderate protein. It sounds like moderate to low. I mean, the carbohydrate count in a bit of soaked oats is not much, right? Oh, it is. I mean, it's not maybe a big bowl. 30 times. I think the number is 50 grams of carbs a day. And your thyroid gland needs carbs. So you need a minimum of 50 a day, which is like a small potato or a couple of pieces of bread. Yeah. I mean, it sounds like that's a pretty low carb diet. But I do grains. I do grains. It's funny. I'm not a big fruit eater. I'm not a big salad eater. And I make my own salad dressing. That's very important. What type of fats do you use in your salad dressing? I use olive oil. olive oil. And like, I'm just curious, I have to like, I'm very paranoid about olive oil. So how do you know? Well, I know, I know, I mean, we, we get olive oil from a gal who I know, I know aren't she. It's up from her own crop of olive trees. So she's pressing it herself. Yeah. Yeah. It takes it to a press. Yeah. Got it. Okay. That's what they do in California. There's a couple of presses that they can take the olives to. That's a. So, so really a high fat medium protein. You know, I'd say your diet is even fairly low in carbs. You know, but it's not. Well, if you're, if you're, let's just think, if you're 60% fat, now mind you, that doesn't look like 60% on your plate. That's fat. That might be three tablespoons of fat per meal. 60% fat and 2015, I would say 15% protein. So there's another 25% is carbs. Yeah. So that sounds so. I mean, compared to the average American diet, it's a low carb diet. Yeah, but I'm not just deliberately avoiding carbs. Yeah. Can I ask you, you know, I've thought about this for a long time and, you know, I look back at sort of indigenous populations and how they accommodated carbohydrates and some very healthy, you know, populations that had like 80% carbohydrate and were still pretty healthy, maybe 70% not that I recommend that, but yeah, I've heard that and I, I do question whether they have seen the whole diet when they say it was 70 80% carbs. Like, I think they think of the people of someplace in the South seas. And I don't think they actually observed the whole diet. I'm sure it wasn't that high in carbs. Certainly very carbon-clusive, you know, at the least. Yeah, oh yes, lots of tubers. Yes, yes, yes. And they were usually fermented. So that changes them too. Yeah, here Bobby walks around with sour crowd. That's what I, that's all right. It's funny. I was talking to a patient yesterday. He's like, you know, my heritage does the same thing. I walk around with kimchi, you know, a lot of fermented carbohydrates, but, you know, I think about the populations from five to five decades ago and earlier, right? They were not exposed to one vegetable oils. They were not exposed to, they really had no significant obesity, right? No significant obesity. No, you look at the, even in this films of 1910 New York, you did not see fat people. Everybody's slim. So I'm sort of, you know, and I look at, you know, people have said, "Tro, why do you think that carbohydrate restriction is so important in the modern diet?" And, you know, when you look at observational data, which it has its issues, you know, decades ago, it appeared that fat was not great. And certainly the newer observational data in the last 20 years has been suggesting that carbs are not that great. So it's tough to make conclusions like, what's going on? How are we flip-flopping? Right, why are we flip-flopping? But what I think, based on the mechanistic data, is that the more chronic disease, the more obesity, the more diabetes, the more powerful the carbohydrate restriction component becomes. Not to say that all those, you know, everything, nutrient density, absolutely necessary. Not to say, you know, we definitely eat animal fats. But I, I, hard of me thinks, gosh, I think the sicker we are, the more that part of the pendulum matters. I don't know, one of the here your thoughts on that. Well, and you really have to say what kind of carbs to, I mean, extruded breakfast cereal corn flakes with skim milk. That's a breakfast that's going to really mess with your metabolism and say, "Ned of my kids, none of my kids have had that breakfast ever." Yeah, neither of mine, neither mine. But my breakfast of oatmeal with butter and a side of bacon, that doesn't mess with my metabolism or my blood sugar. Yeah, that's amazing. So again, I think a lot of it has to do with what kind of carbs and how they're prepared and how they're eaten. Yeah, yeah, absolutely 100% agree. And every now and then I'll wake up, if I've had eggs for two or three days in a row, I'll wake up and think my body needs oatmeal now. I need that. You feel like it's all this. Yeah, I just, it's just fascinating. And you feel strong, you feel good and you know, I'm happy to hear that. You know, I haven't had oatmeal in 10 years. Well, be sure to cook it like in nourishing tradition. If I eat oatmeal that hasn't been soaked overnight, I actually get toxic shock from it and I've almost passed out from it. You really need to soak it in something acidic and it's the recipes in my book, nourishing traditions and then eat it with fat cream or butter. Yeah, that'll definitely dampen the glycemic effect for sure. Oh sure. Yeah, having a bit of, you know, just hold it in the stomach longer. Yeah. But that combination makes me ravenous. You can put some chopped nuts on it, pine nuts, you can put a little maple syrup, you can put coconut on it. I have maple syrup in 10 years either. Gosh, you know, you're going to get this. You're going to sell you may, you may, uh, uh, piece of bread. I haven't had, uh, I haven't had an orange in 10 years. That's interesting. Now it's, I don't, I'm not a big, I actually don't do well on, on high pectin fruits. So apples, peaches, all that, they have to be cooked or I don't do well on that. But I love citrus fruit. Not that I eat a lot, but every now and then I really want a half a great fruit. Oh, I love fresh orange shoes. Yeah. Um, I'm going to shift gears a little bit. Um, you know, I want people to understand a little bit about what's the name price, what he found, why he's so important and why this foundation is important that you found it and sort of the mission that you've really let him continue. So I'd love for you to just give the listener, uh, you know, I know you've told the story a million one time, but that's, I think it's an important story nonetheless to tell. Well, I was very lucky to grow up in a family that I would say my parents were the first foodies. My mother was a wonderful cook and they traveled a lot and so she would come home and make the dishes that they'd eaten. So I grew up eating a lot of interesting food. Uh, funnily enough, she never fixed liver. I think she thought it would be too hard to get us to eat it. And we didn't have raw milk. By the way, that's the subject we need to touch on. But we always had butter and we always had lots of fatty meats and eggs and cream. You know, it was French cooking basically. And then I started out with my own family. My first child was born in 1973 and that was just about the time that this low fat message was coming out that we should avoid fat, that we should eat a kind of plant-based diet. And I just knew, and I just knew this was wrong. I knew if I didn't give good fats to my daughter, she'd be cranky and grabby, just like I would be. So then I discovered Western Price. I found his book in a bookstore and read about these diets and the importance of the fats and the fat soluble vitamins. And I saw I knew I see I'm doing it right and I never paid any attention to what the government was saying after that. And I had three more children, three boys and raised them. They got healthier with each child because I was learning more and doing more liver, started doing cod liver oil for the children. And anyway, when my youngest was in school full time, went to kindergarten, I got this idea to write a book that would put Dr. Price's findings into practical form and that's nourishing traditions. And it actually goes beyond Dr. Price because he didn't talk about proper preparation or broth or any of the other subjects I put in the book. But anyway, the book came out in '96, second edition in '99. I have to make a bunch of corrections. And then my co-author and I founded the Western A Price Foundation to continue to provide information about studies and just kind of keep this and people's focused on this importance of the nutrient dense diet. And here we are. We just had our 25th conference. We're 25 years, 25 years. We had a wonderful conference in Salt Lake City. And we've published a journal this whole time. We have a great podcast. We have a lot of interesting material that you get. If you become a member, we encourage people to join. It's $40. We have never raised the price of membership. In 25 years. Then you get to be a member of our family and get our journal and get our updates and so forth. I cannot. What I'd love to talk about. I know, uh, remind me, what's the price? If I remember, he was a dentist, correct? Right? He was a dentist and he was in carries, right? That's how it works. And now he carries, but crowded and crooked teeth and all. Most of his patients had mouth full of infection and they had narrow palettes and crooked teeth. And he had heard that traditional people had beautiful teeth. So he, he traveled for 10 years every summer. He went to different parts of the globe to see for himself. And he found 14 population groups that had excellent dental health, virtually no cavities and beautiful broad smiles. None of them needed braces. So he and he was able to compare these people on traditional diets with people who had started to eat the white man's food. And within one generation, the facial structure changed and they had overbites, underbites, crowded, narrow faces. Not the beautiful round faces of the traditional people. And then of course, rampant tooth decay as well, causing a great deal of pain and suffering. And he took photographs. That's the amazing thing about his book. These photographs of the healthy traditional people, their teeth are just amazing. How broad their smiles are and how wide their faces are. And so this is what we need to get back to and we put a big emphasis on maternal diet for pre-conceptual care and pregnancy and then breastfeeding in the growing child. And we have lots of wonderful Western price babies now who look like the babies and the people in the photographs. You know, when I was 13 years old, you're talking about childhood and children. When I was 13 years old, I was 210 pounds the weight I am right now. Okay, my at 13, my older brother, I think, was when he was 13, he was nearing 300 pounds. My younger brother is probably the same. And we ate predominantly skim milk cereal, lunch food, right, our school lunch food. And then we would have episodically, like, you know, just sort of cooking that was more traditional and ethnic, you know, Armenian heritage, right. So we would have, you know, the chickpea based, you know, we have hummus or we'd have tabooly, which would have a little bit of grain in it. We actually would do raw liver, you know, we would have raw liver is a, is a son of a deep. That's probably saved you. Yeah, right. Yeah, we'd even have raw meat, but not often raw meat with grains mixed together like a kufte. But that's what's like. Give it with kibbe, right? Yeah, yeah, we call it a little different, but yeah, but we, those are very rare. Those are very rare. We rarely had those. And we were exposed to just the modern food environment and we blew up my whole family. We blew up. Now about 10, you know, 10 years ago, I found real food low carb eating, which is almost exactly how you describe. Just less emphasis on the grains, I'd eat grains maybe five, 10 times a year. And slightly less emphasis on the tubers, although occasionally I'll have a yuka. Right. And I reclaimed a lot of my health and over time, I increased the organ meats in my diet, you know, the way that probably my ancestors ate. And my health's never been better. Now I want to juxtapose my, my son, my 13, he turned 13. And I'm just amazed. He just ran and I'm just sharing this with you as a proud father. He just ran a great jawline teeth, not crooked, you know, like I have crooked teeth and grew up with crooked teeth. And a picture of me in this, you know, six years old with crooked teeth. And a nice, great jawline. And the kid just ran a 520 mile, like an amazing. Wow, wow, for a child. And I look at, you know, the food environment I grew up with and the food environment he has. And that's the only thing that's changed. Yeah. Yeah. And this is reversible. That's the good news. The other thing that happens when the face gets narrow is the pelvic opening gets narrow and chalberth becomes very painful and difficult. But when the teeth are, face is broad, the teeth are straight, then the pelvic opening is round and chalberth is very easy. So lots of people are waking up just like you did. They're abandoning these horrible foods, the foods of the 50, 60, 70, 80, 90s and going back to what their ancestors ate. And it's, you know, there's a lot of things you can do for your health. But as you say, this is the basis and without that, nothing else really works. I mean, I, I, I just had a hit piece on me, Sally. The goal of what? Hit piece on me because like you, I'm concerned about sort of environmental exposures. And I know that something that the West and Price Foundation is also very concerned with they, they ran the guardian, you know, I always thought I would be so proud to be in the guardian. Yeah. I would be so proud to be in the daily mail. But they said health influencer causes fears over sunscreens. That's what they said about me, Sally, you know, well, they're, they're horrible. How does the Western Price Foundation and how does Sally, you know, what does she think about? Well, I'll tell you a story. I have a friend, nutritionist in California and she was getting, she was getting a lot of surfers. These are surfers, these are masculine men coming in with erectile dysfunction. And the first thing she does is take them off a sunscreen and then she puts them on a high fat diet and she says come see me in a month and they solder, saunter in a month later with big grins on their face. And she said, see, it worked. You don't have to see me anymore. So I think the sunscreen's are just horrible and people are putting them on their children, slathering them all over every day. When even they're covered in clothes, they don't even need it. And you know, are you, what's this doing to your little boys? These sunscreen's not only contained estrogens, they contain testosterone blockers. I mean, I'm just disrupting chemicals that absorb through the skin. You they have to illegal level and they put on the whole body. Yeah. And yes, we should be very, very afraid of sunscreens. Yeah. Yeah, not the sun, maybe, right? Not the sun. Oh, no, get out the sun. Sun's good for you. Yeah. By the way, a lot of people tell me that once they get off the industrial seed oils and onto the saturated animal fats, that they're not so sensitive to the sun. They can tolerate the sun a lot better. I think when you remove inflammation from the body, right? I've been thinking about this for a long time. I have a clinic that people come in, the average patient loses about 43 pounds at one year Sally. And I'm very proud of these results. And yet when they come in, they're on average 293 pounds, right? And their vitamin D is low, their vitamin C is low. And I thought to myself, these are over, quote unquote, overfed people who are low in vitamin D. How does that happen? Right. Let me just say something here. Yeah. All right. We are extremely concerned about people taking vitamin D. Now they may be low in vitamin D, but when you take vitamin D on its own, you deplete vitamin A and vitamin K. So we recommend cod liver oil, which has the A and D together. And we recommend getting vitamin D from food where it's balanced with these other vitamins. Yeah, I've never recommended D was okay, but the question is more of a philosophical question. How is it that the body lowers vitamin D and it must be used up in response to inflammation? Right. It is the only way to explain these low vitamin D. Oh, and well, I think you just need vitamin D for lots of. - Thanks. And by the way, I mean, just say, A and D and K together is big time depletion of vitamin A. We really need to go to the calvator oil instead. Inflammation, what is inflammation? It's the body's therapy. We need to look at the cause of the inflammation, not just the inflammation. And of course, industrial seed oils are very damaging in that damage the body responds with inflammation. - Yeah, I mean, just like something. - When you break your ankle, the ankle inflames, but that's therapy. It's cushioning the injury so that you don't go out and walk on your ankle, it's telling you to keep off your ankle. - You know, percent, that's how I got to 350 pounds. It was my body siloing basically protecting my blood. And that's, I'm a 100% believer in inflammation as a response. And it uses up those vitamin C and vitamin D. And this is why I think, you know, when we, even when we're looking at kids who have obesity, their level of vitamin C is almost like, - Yeah, they don't eat any. - They don't have vegetables. - I don't think it's not just eating. I think their body is depleting these vital antioxidants, nutrients. - Could be. - You know. - The level of vitamin D is, I've seen single digit vitamin Ds. - Oh gosh. The, I was gonna say, the really good source of vitamin C is sourcrout. Vitamin C goes up almost 10 fold when you make cabbage into sourcrout. - So just sourcrout and kimchi. Now I'm gonna make it. I'm gonna take it. - Yeah, I want that. - Yeah. And of course, you can buy them now. They have to be raw, but, while these things, you know, we put out a shopping guide where you can order homemade broth, you can order sourcrout, you can order all kinds of things. Grass-fed butter, grass-fed raw butter. We haven't talked about milk yet. - Well, I know the answer already. And most of the listeners do as well. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Do you feel, so I know you feel strongly about raw milk. This is absolutely, I think a lot of people have been, like we've been listening to quote unquote medical authorities for a long time. And I think finally people are waking up to say, wait a second, you know, do we really, you know, if you know the former, you know the cow, and you're, you know, see the milk coming out, do you really need to homogenize and pasteurize it and to the people that are, you know, serving raw milk, they need to be locked up, absolutely not. I think it's a travesty, really. - But even in California, you've got a dairy that's 1,600 cows, and they sell raw milk all over the state and they have a superlative safety record. It's just wrong to say that raw milk is inherently dangerous. Pasturized milk causes 20 to 30 deaths from antifalactic shock per year. That's pretty dangerous in my opinion. That raw milk doesn't do that. So, and it should be full fat milk. The fat's there for a reason, and you want the creamiest milk you can get. And that helps you absorb iron and helps you absorb calcium for strong bones. The weird, you know, giving our growing children skin milk, that's a crime against humanity, that's genocide. - I think a lot of things that we're doing to our kids are crime. - Yeah. - You know, again, I look at myself at 13 years old, I was a current weight, I am now crooked teeth, you know, or my mental health was not optimal. All because my diet was completely manipulated. So, I'm thinking-- - And the high carbs make you unstable, I think, because your blood sugar is going all over the place and it drops too low. And that's what I suffered from was low blood sugar. And I would pass out from low blood sugar. - Yeah, and many people don't know. It's because of a lack of metabolic flexibility and exposure to high carb diets. So if you lack, if you have metabolic syndrome, lack of metabolic flexibility, eat high carbs, you're going to experience low blood sugar. These warring tribes, all these people that we talked about, they didn't die from low blood sugar, they didn't have a low blood sugar. - No. - It would be, they would, you know, run 25 miles to the beside, it would run 25 miles, fight a warring tribe and then run back and then eat. - But the other thing is they didn't do that every day then they rested. - Right, yeah. - Yeah, any other, you know, major things that you think that, the listener out here who's getting into diet, trying to tackle their weight, you know, any other major tips you think that they should know about for they, and they'll continue on their journey. That the truth they need to hear. - Well salt is very important. All traditional cultures ate salt and it was unrefined salt. Even in America, I've had people tell me, oh, with American Indians didn't eat salt. Yes, they did, but there was a huge salt trade in America. There were families of Indians that didn't belong to any particular tribe and they just carried salt, especially from the Ohio River Valley, which a lot of salt there. And it was when the Spaniards disrupted the salt trade that all the diseases came into the Indians. So you do need salt. I'm not saying the kind of salt that's on potato chips. That's what I mean. I mean, add salt to your food until it tastes good to you. And I add salt to my water, source of minerals and makes the water a lot more thirst question. - Let's see if I can show you. Yeah, I got volcanic salt here. I have, you know, ancient sea salt right here. - Yeah. - So salt, I agree. Fat, salt, real animal, you know, real animal proteins and fats are beyond, you know, the most vital thing, I think most people. - And I do think because we don't eat bones like traditional people did, the dairy is important. It needs to be full fat and it needs to be raw. - Yeah, they get those nutrients, absolutely. I agree. Don't forget the bone broth. - Yeah. - Don't buy the ones I make at home, right? Don't buy the ones I make. But the bone broth is not a good source of calcium. We were very surprised when we tested it. It was very little calcium in bone broth. The bone broth helps you create cartilage and your bones are part cartilage and then the calcium is laid down on the cartilage. So on the collagen, excuse me, on the collagen. - Besides milk, where would you get? I mean, I obviously cheese and other fermented dairy, I guess would be a great source. Any other source of calcium in your body? - Well, in traditional cultures, if they didn't have milk, they would dry out bones of small animals or cook them and then crush them and eat the bones. The Eskimos ate the fermented bones of the fish, which were very soft. They've just found a pot from ancient China and there was a residue of bones inside the pot. So the Chinese were adding powdered bones to their food. So there's only two sources of calcium in the human diet. One is bones and one is dairy. And we're very fortunate in the West. We consume dairy, it's very available. We just need to get the right kind of dairy. And by the way, we have a website, realmilk.com, where you can find raw milk anywhere you live in the United States. It's widely available. - That's great. Any other tips before anything else, you want to our listeners to know. In our listeners, somebody between the age of 30 and 60, getting started on their health journey, trying to get off medications, trying to get good medical advice, good dietary advice, trying to get back on the right track. Anything else you don't know? Well, start with butter. Eat lots of butter. Make your own salad dressing. - Eat real food. - Eat real food. Yeah, yeah, eat real food. And not to judge. 'Cause shop the aisles of the supermarket. - Can I ask one last question before we part ways here? What degree is faith and spirituality a part of the Western price sort of movement and foundation? What do you think about the importance of this in our modern life? - Yeah, I think it's important in all of our lives, but that's not our focus. Our focus is food and we welcome all faith to our foundation. We don't want to turn anyone away with promoting one belief system or another. A lot of us are into Rudolph Steiner, but we try to keep that out of our teachings on nutrition. These are universal. The body, whether you're a person, Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, the body needs the same things. Yes, ma'am. I agree. I agree. Thank you so much for your help. Oh, you're welcome. Thank you for having me. I appreciate it. I appreciate you coming on and sort of educating us, educating our listeners and guys. Look at the show notes. You're really dealing with the person who's had a huge impact. This organization has had a huge impact on the healthcare of, you know, a lot of people and it's becoming more and more notice finally. I think with Maha and RFK and I just want to thank you for your time today. And for all the work you've done in your leadership and willing to stand up against people have probably criticized you for decades. So I want to thank you for your continued support. By the way, one of our employees was at Costco the other day and they were selling chicken feet and beef tallow. So that's real progress to find these in Costco. That's that's where I got my bone broth. So, but I'll but I'll be making it now. I promise. Yeah, okay. All right. Thank you so much for. And yes, look forward to being able to post this podcast. Yeah, maybe we can connect. I'd love to come to one of these conferences. If you can give me more information about the Western Price Foundation, we'll certainly put it in. And any conferences you have, I'm sure our next. Our next. Our next conference is October of 26 and it's going to be in Washington DC. Great. Oh my god. I can't wait. I'd love to be there. So. Yeah. Thank you. Great. Awesome. Our conference website is wise traditions.org. And the foundation website is Western a price dot org. I'm looking forward to seeing you in DC in 2026. All right. Okay. I tell you. Thank you. Bye bye. Bye. If you enjoy the show, please consider supporting us on Patreon by going to lowcarbmd.com.