Normalizing Peace & Profit For Women Founders with Emily Dean

Messaging to me is your brand's like soul personified, right? Like it is your DNA and then the way that you're sharing that with the world, especially how we build brands like there is a core message, right? And I do think we need one sort of umbrella core message, but then we have messaging frameworks that can be various scenarios under that, but as long as we're laddering up to that one sentence, then to me, like that brand is doing its job, right? Welcome to the Purpose and Progress podcast where values spark action. I'm your host Ashley Seng, a values align brand messaging strategist and consultant, wife and mama, thrift-drain traveler, and this is a podcast for women who want to lift up, learn from and work with each other as you build a business that feels and does good. All your passion, expertise and ambition combine into the unique way you show up and stand out. So let's celebrate our paths toward Purpose and Progress. Come for the anecdotes and advice. Leave with the motivation to take confident meaningful action towards your vision. [Music] Hello, hello, and welcome back to the Purpose and Progress podcast. I'm so excited to talk with today's guest Emily Dean. She is the founder and lead strategist of Bolt and Bloom. We met via ladies who strategize. Neither of us is particularly active in the group, but somehow we got connected. And I actually found out about the group from Arden who I interviewed in episode 17. So I'll have both ladies who strategize and Arden's episode linked in the show notes. And Emily is just such a joy to talk with. You will see across the episode, she really marries this idea of work and who, magic and science, experience and intuition. And I'd love that she is on such a powerful mission to support women, entrepreneurs, founders to make the money they need with all of the wellness they need. And we talk a lot about the idea of self sacrifice and how it does not need to be part of our personal or professional stories. We are able to claim space, care for ourselves, put ourselves at the center and still be of deep service to others and be deeply contributing to the communities and movements that we're part of. I'm the excited to share an episode that's about normalizing peace and profit, well-being as a core KPI and brand identity as something that is both soul and DNA personified. It's just so fun to nerd out on messaging and marketing stuff, but even if you are a completely differently minded person in that your assistance person or your much more visual, she doesn't mention how visual she is, regardless of what your expertise is or how your brain works. I think you'll really resonate with the way Emily views the world and self and the way business can and should be done. It's a really, really fun, energizing conversation. You might notice I veered a little bit from the standard question list that I have been using. I have been experimenting with this podcast probably in such subtle ways that you have never even noticed, but I'm really trying to find my groove as an interviewer and for me it was a lot more freeing to ask follow up questions directly related to what she just said to keep the conversation as organic as possible, which is always my goal. My goal is always for you to see the human behind the business and to really see yourself in whatever anecdotes and advice any of my guests share. Anyway, I think you're going to love everything Emily says. Definitely be sure to check out her brand reset lab, which is a four week brand building intensive with founder health at the core. I will have that linked in the show notes, along with all of her other resources. As always, be sure to check out all the show notes linked at ashlisane.com/episode 103. And of course, be sure to subscribe to the toward purpose and progress newsletter. It's where I share all of the latest podcast episode drops, along with roundups and founder friends, shout outs and events that I think you should know about. It's really one of my favorite ways to show up and be in community and in communication with you. And if you love this episode, please do give it a glowing review, subscribe and share a screenshot on social so that more multi passionate teenagers, just like you know about the podcast and come back in two weeks because I'll be coming at you with another solo episode. So with that, let's dive into the interview with Emily. So I'm so excited, Emily, to officially talk to you today. Thanks so much for joining me. Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be chatting with you on this gloomy rainy day. It's just it was the perfect time for a cozy conversation. Oh, lovely. And like hopefully whoever is listening to this, you're either on like a beautiful walk in the sunshine or curled up on a gloomy day, like whatever, whatever the weather is. Hopefully it's exactly what you're needing and wanting. Yes, I do love a rainy. Yeah. You got it. So on this podcast, we talk to women, for women in business, all about purpose and progress. I'm so deeply curious about why we do what we do and how we communicate what we care so much about. And I know that is absolutely your wheelhouse too. So with that, I would love to know what's your current elevator pitch, something you'd say. A networking event or in a Zoom chat, hey, I'm Emily. I do, you know, what's your pitch? Yeah. I love this question because it just, I think it took me a while to step into this. But so yeah, the way that I answer that now, which feels most authentic to me is that, you know, I run a boutique brand marketing consultancy called Bolton Bloom. And I also help purpose-driven founders evolve their brand strategy in a way that they can scale without self-sacrifice. So we're not getting rid of peace or profit here. And what I like to think of it as is like where vision meets grounded strategy and with a side of like well-being and nervous system care. Oh, I love every part of that. All of those elements are so magical, a little bit mystical, but then also so, so pragmatic. I know we were talking about the magic and the pragmatic before we even hit record. But I feel like in business, it is especially entrepreneurship, solar entrepreneurship, being a founder, it is such a journey of self discovery. You see all of the flaws, you highlight all of the strengths, you realize all of the negative self-talk and bad habits that you have. Most of which are direct hindrance to your self-care and your emotional regulation. And I feel like it is such, you are being of such service to your clients and to the entrepreneurship community in general, to be focusing on those elements paired with the very pragmatic and important and sort of lever pulling elements like messaging and marketing. So I'd love to know how and why you settled on that that combo. Yeah, you know, I think I really started out by and I'm in my second year as a business owner. So like props to me. That's a milestone in my mind. But you know, when I started out, I was really just really wanting to do wanting to work with women and help them build cool shit to be honest. And then once I really started digging into like, what are the unique challenges that women in business face? It's just like there is a never ending sea of difference than how we see like modern corporate culture. And I came from a corporate background. I was in New York City and like a corporate marketing job for 15 years. But I came across this stat that has just been like keeping me up at night. And it's that over a third of entrepreneurs hit burnout. And when you break it down, 52% of female founders are carrying heavy loads of anxiety and depression. Like this is not like a fringe. Like this is the norm for women in business. And I think it's very, you know, not to say that that men don't experience this as well. But women very much over index on struggling with mental health issues when going through business. Yeah, I think women, especially and again, not exclusively by any stretch, but traditionally stereotypically, societally. Women also carry that mental load of the home of caregiving, whether or not they have children or aging parents or whatever it is. And I have built a business child free and I have built a business with two small children and it is a whole different ballgame. Just the emotional regulation alone. I'm learning a lot about emotional regulation from my social media feed and especially my ADHD rabbit holes and parenting is a trigger for sure. But also when you are pouring so much of yourself of your identity of your purpose of your livelihood into this business that you're creating. Of course, it can be emotionally charged. We put so much pressure sometimes rightfully so on our ability to make an impact, make a living, make a reputation, build a legacy, whatever it is that we are after, or for people like me. All of the above, please, full force 100% all the time. Thank you. So I think it's an important conversation to be had, even if it stops at the conversation point, even if you do nothing about it, at least that level of awareness and oh, you're not alone in this matters so much. Yes, and awareness is the key, right? And I always say like some women build businesses, some build families, and some do both. And I am childless by choice, but I have, I just the amount of respect I have for women who are doing both at the same time is insurmountable. And knowing that women just naturally, we have this kind of maternal other focus, right? Whether you identify with being a more masculine woman or being more feminine, it doesn't matter. We are naturally other focus. We are caretakers largely, right? So we often forget to put ourselves at the center of our business. So that takes a huge toll over a period of time. So even though I am focused on building brand, to me, that's such an, it's so connected to our sense of identity that if there's a way that we can put you as the founder, as like the nucleus of your business and normalize that your well-being should be a core KPI to me that feels like I'm, you know, I'm, I'm serving in some way. I love the sentence you just said, you're well-being as a core KPI. That is like the perfect bridge of you have the corporate chops. You speak the language, you know what you're doing. And also well-being can be measured. It can be felt. And it absolutely permeates regardless regardless of how well you're measuring it, how well you're attending to it, poor well-being absolutely is affecting your ability to focus, to pour into your clients, to have initiative for the new exciting project that maybe would boost your revenue and make your, your business more sustainable or stable or whatever it is. So I love that. I won't even say balance, but just that pairing between, okay, yes, we are getting down to business, but also well-being is a part of that business. Yes. And we can, and both can exist, right? That peace and profit, they can exist. They're not mutually exclusive. And I think that's important to normalize for women too, because we don't necessarily like, it doesn't have to be one or the other. It can be, it can be both. It's just that, you know, we have to be mindful about how we get there. So how do we get there? I would love to. Oh, like how do you integrate this? So, okay, obviously you're working with your clients on marketing, on messaging, on strategy. Obviously, that is part of it. But how do you integrate this wellness element? Yeah. Well, so I take something that, it's kind of like, I really feel like it's so level work. Like when building a brand identity, like I think it's really a lot of the founders that I've seen are building it off of someone else's vision, or at least, you know, what they've seen on social media, how they think businesses should be run, how they think brands should be built without actually like tapping into their intuition and stepping into like, this is what I want to bring into the world. And this is why I want to do it, right? So I think there's just like I, I spend a lot of time in that space. So the core thing that I do with clients is I really take them through this four week container, where we identify the most core elements of your brand identity, your, you know, mission vision values, your audience offer, and then your core message. So to me, those are like the sole level ingredients that go into your brand. And you should be at the center of that, right? So I think when you work with big agencies or big like branding corporations, it's like, it becomes less of what you're about and more about like what culture is reflecting back to you. So I just want to empower people to put themselves first in that part of the process. And then also I'm built in the process of building a course right now, a cohort, or we're doing this in a group of like five to six founders. And part of that work is, you know, grounding in meditation and breath work. So those are things that were kind of like naturally building muscles around when we make these kinds of big decisions. Yeah, I, I think that idea of hiring a big branding agency because it seems fancy or it seems like they know what they're doing. I can see the appeal of that, you know, the testimonials, the logos that they have that they've worked with in the past, the big price tag shows, oh, they must know what they're talking about. And yet I can imagine just based on having subcontracted with many larger agencies, how they're so rigid sometimes, not, not rational agencies here, but sometimes they're so processed driven, so our approach driven, so market research driven that the founder and their unique vision is lost in the process. And I think a lot of times, not always again, but sometimes, you know, it's kind of same same, right? Like they kind of turn out the same thing for all their clients because, you know, they know what works. And you know, maybe it would work to some extent, but would it be that true reflection of who you are as a founder? What your vision is, the impact you can make. Does it really tease out what makes you special? What makes you tick? And for me, it's that Venn diagram of not only you and your vision and what you believe in and how you view the world, but you're perfect fit people. Like really what they're looking for, what they want from you. It's the same reason that who gives a crap, which is like a sustainable toilet paper company is able to have a blog about, yes, toilet issues, but also able to have posts about date nights and international women's day and all kinds of things that are seemingly out of left field, but they know their audience. They know what their audience wants and needs, and they're able to like fill those spaces and inject humor and voice and value in that way. So I just think there's something to be said. Yeah, and I mean, Ben and Jerry's right, another great example. It's like it's an ice cream company. And yet you see like how purpose driven their founder is and he's taking a stand on a lot of cultural issues. And so it's, I just think we're seeing because there's kind of been over a period of time, this erosion of trust with brands and also with big agencies, right? You have like your big what now three advertising agencies. And so there's a lot of like group think like happening in the space. And I think we're going to start to see, well, we already are starting to see a lot more like founder focused brands coming in to and be able to become a disruptor in their industry because they have a strong POV and it's led by the founder. I think like we want to see the founder and what their values are. And if it aligns with ours before we pull out our wallet and make a decision because inherently, you know, that's a very, it's we vote with our wallet, right? Yeah, that is one of my core beliefs. Yeah, the way we spend our dollars really does matter. And just to to that end of knowing the human behind the brand, we're business, we're humans doing business with humans. And so yes, like you talked about scale at the top of this episode. We want to grow our businesses, right? Not necessarily to infinity. Sometimes we don't want to have the whole shebang, you know, solar pernors like us, what would be the next level? Probably to have a small agency. What would be the next level after that? A big agency, right? So like we don't always necessarily want to completely scale and change in that way. But ultimately, we are always humans doing business with other humans. And so if we're able to humanize even bigger brands, it goes so far. And even, yeah, like brands taking on a human-esque persona even, you know, you think of the Wendy's Twitter, for example, or X or whatever it's called these days, but like originally they got famous with their Twitter. And how they suddenly had a voice. And, you know, am I buying Wendy's? No, I don't eat fast food. But I think it's a great example of humanizing, humanizing a very, very, very big sort of decentralized, giant franchise. Also, I just want to plug your Instagram because you have commentaries on big brand Well, big and small brands like this in the wild all the time. So and they're always like so spot on. So definitely follow Emily because her really, really concise and insightful analysis of like what brands are doing. It's just like it's it's gold. So thank you so much. That means the world actually used to do kind of that in my corporate past life. So I like really enjoy doing it for the audience that I know and love now. That's so fun. I love that. Like, those skills are transferable. Like just remember to us all, whatever your life was, it's absolutely relevant. I feel like so many of us are ashamed by like a winding path or, oh, I had this one degree and I don't use it. Yes, you do. You absolutely do whatever experiences you've had, whatever you've learned, whatever like random rabbit holes you've gone down the internet, it shows up in some way because it imprints on us. So yeah, I love that you're doing. Right. What we what we eat, what we think, what we, you know, what we consume on the internet, all of it, all of it impacts how we show up in the world. And yeah, I had a period of time where I was really trying to detach myself from my, like, you know, past corporate identity. And then I just kind of reframed it and said, no, these are actually really valuable skills that now I can bring to people who I want to serve. And to me, that feels like the most empowering thing. Yes. Yes. I love that. Hi, Ashley here. I'm jumping in quickly to remind you that if you want a business that feels and does good, aligning your values is the most important step. It's how you show up consistently, stand out and connect with clients and partners on a human level, whether you want brand messaging strategy, ongoing conscious marketing consulting or anything in between. I'm here for the empathetic accountability you need to take confident, meaningful action toward your vision without getting trapped in your deep thoughts along the way. Book a free alignment call to chat about whether or the right fit to work together. It's linked in the show notes or at AshleySame.com/align. Now back to the interview. So I asked you your formal elevator pitch. What would you say I call it a dinner party description? What would you say to a stranger about what you do? Especially someone who isn't a marketing buff. They don't know about online business or being a founder, just like how do you describe what you do in layman's turn? Oh God. Yeah, I do think I just, you know, I help people show up and amplify the cool shit that they're doing on a baseline level. But I also know that a lot of entrepreneurs are exhausted, burnt out, constantly tweaking their brand. I know I was at the beginning of my journey and still kind of feeling unseen and unclear. So I really step into the role of helping them figure out what exactly it is that they stand for and how they want to say that in a way that lands with a mix of psychology that I know about consumer behavior and then also just like the sharp is how frameworks that I've picked up along the way. And especially in strategy, it's like, there's never one right framework. I know every consultant is out there trying to like copyright and sell a framework, but like it's really like, it's really just a tool in your toolbox. And I have a lot of tools like that in my toolbox. So I get to implore them in different ways and get creative with them when I work with clients, but there is no right or only framework. But so it's also like it's part therapy, it's part creative direction and it's part like brand evolution. I love that. I, it's really interesting that you said therapy because I have on multiple, multiple occasions been called like a business therapist or something. You know, I have no training in, you know, that realm, but it's really interesting how cathartic it is to unpack your brand in a safe container with someone you trust who can give outside perspective, give validation, give a little bit of, I call it empathetic accountability or like gentle pushback. It is amazing how powerful that is because we live in breathe our brand. We think about our business day and night. You know, regardless of how well you do the work, life balance thing, you're still thinking about it, right? Like it still takes up so much of your time and energy and it really, really is nourishing to your brain and your soul to have spaces where you can unpack. Oh, here's what I mean by that. Here's language. You should put to that thing that has just been eating in the back of my brain for so, so long. And yeah, it's, I love that you have tools to do that without having a prescriptive approach to anything because it really is so dependent on personality and values and goals and everything in between. Yes. And honestly, it's so much like excavation, right? Sometimes, I mean, I know I'm guilty of this too and I have to go to outside sources, like even just like my core friend group and be like, this is how I'm looking at this thing. Like, is there any, am I missing something? Is there something I hadn't thought about? You know, it's just that there's, there's so many ways that we can open up our perspective to get to a deeper sense of why we're actually doing the thing we're doing. And so I think it just helps to have somebody sit with you and ask why, you know, and not in like a, you know, poke prod, like negative kind of way, just like, well, why is that? I'm just a very genuinely curious person. So like, okay, cool. Like you're, you know, trying to create, you know, a new toilet paper. Why? Like, oh, interesting. Why? And you'll see that like, once you get into like the fifth or sixth layer of asking why, then do you get to like really the root of why somebody is in their current pursuit? And that's what I think is like absolute gold. And when you get to the center of that why, then the mind map from there of offer suites, audiences, grand manifestations, like whatever it is is infinite or at least, you know, there's more than that one path of, oh, well, toilet paper, right? Like the why behind it. Okay, what other ways could that show up in the world? I recently wrote about, I'll have to link it if I, if I have it somewhere, but I recently wrote about the five wise exercise. I didn't come up with it, of course, but that idea of asking yourself or asking someone or having someone ask you five levels of wise to get to that heart of, okay, here's what we're actually talking about. Or a sort of like shortcut or slightly different way to do that same exercise is simply asking to what end? It's why, but in a much more tangible, like what am I actually aiming to accomplish here? Rather than why, oh, because I care about this. Okay, why? Because I care about that. Okay, why? But to what end? Some brains might just react much more strongly to that. So I really love that question as well. Yes, yeah. And the ultimate problem that you're solving for actually was, um, I just think to a podcast I'm totally blanking on the name of it. But the importance of getting to your problem to one word. You could get your problem to one word. It allows you to like, to see all the potential possibilities around that around that problem. And then you're able to like communicate that problem in depth. So it's just like it brings an extra level of clarity. I'm still like thinking about my word, right? I have like five words that I'm like, they're going down, but just how like to get to that precision is, you know, that's what puts you on 10 talk stages. That's what it's going to be. Brown, like the, you know, the expert on shame, like it's like you associate her with that one word. And that's what is like sent her career, like skyrocketing. There's a lot of other examples of that. But I was like, wow, okay, that one word thing really stuck with me. That's really interesting. I don't think I've ever heard of that like exercise or goal. Um, so yeah, that's, that's really, I wasn't going to ask, well, what's your one word? But since you said it's a work in progress, well, you're welcome to share some of the words or we can just let it be it, it is a work in process. I'm like, I'm like, okay, autopilot, like that's a word, right? Like just swing things like going through the motions without being intentional about why you're doing them. So trying to get things off of autopilot. Yes. Okay, because I feel like a lot of people is autopilot. Okay. Okay. Because I think a lot of like tech companies and AI, I don't know, advocates would be like, oh, we want it to be on autopilot. You said it and forget it. So that's really interesting. Sorry, what was the next one when you're business building that we, you know, that's, that's how you come up with businesses that eventually become very unclear or don't, don't scale the way you want them to because you were at the center of it. You put everything you outsource before you were ready. You put things like autopilot that you shouldn't have. Yeah, misalignment and like self-sacrifice, right? So to me, those are all kind of like three words that I'm like tapping into a little bit. Do you do at my knee jerk reaction? Yeah. Self-sacrifice is the thing that I think of most when I think of you and/or it feels the most unique and resonant and empathetic and like heart-stringy, but also very tangibly like you can point to a situation where you self-sacrifice and you can point to action items you can do to course-correct that or make a better decision in the future. So like it's a little bit you know, airy-fairy, but also it's very very very tangible, especially when you're experiencing it and you're like, oh man, I did it again. So oh my god, we figured out my word. There you go. And spoken like a true messaging person, it's like a double word, so like kind of cheated, but also like in it self-sacrifice in and of itself is its own entity, but like it's not in two little parts. So yeah. Like we just had a session. There we go. There we go. I mean that's I truly believe that brand messaging, brand building, really all of the above of what we've spoken about is part magic, part science. It is those tools and it is that intuition and that experience and that outside perspective and it is all of the in between and the integrations and interactions between those two sides of the spectrum. And I think that's going to become more important than ever, right? I mean, yes, as entrepreneurs, like we're all using AI in some way, shape or form, like it can be your best marketing assistant if you want it to be, but it will never it will never have your intuition, your creative thinking, your like unique perspective on things. And so I just think that's going to become more and more important to make sure that people know how to communicate that for themselves so that they're not leaning too heavily on automation and AI. Yeah, because I think whether it's AI generated or from a consultant or from a, I don't know, list that you downloaded from the internet or whatever it is, you still need that level of discernment and intuition to know is this the right thing? Because, you know, Cheshire PT can spit out 10 different values for you and, you know, they might all hit, but like you'll know based on your intuition whether or not that's something you want to be known for, that's something you want to stand for, that's a way you want to stand out. And AI or any other human will have no way of ever knowing that you need to have that discernment. And that's a muscle you have to exercise. That's an exercise of self-trust that comes with experience that comes with feedback from your perfect fit people. If you want to be aligned with your perfect fit people knowing how they think and what they need and want from you, that's an act of empathy to be able to absorb their values without losing yourself by any stretch. But yeah, all of that is innately human. And I think that's beautiful. Yeah, yeah, don't get me wrong. I love chat daddy for certain reasons, but not gonna be my end-mobile. So funny. So I'd love to know what's your current trajectory? You're two years into business. You are a 15 year corporate marketing veteran. What's your vision for your life in your business? I will not hold you to it, but just curious what's the path you're on? Yeah, well, my ultimate like, North Star is to get more women to that $1 million mark without burning out in the process. Only like 2% of women founders actually get there. But yeah, I want to do that in a way that's not burning me out either. So that's why I kind of think like, small is the new big in terms of how I'm approaching my own business and just, you know, actionable daily steps. And now I'm kind of in this process where I've been doing the one-on-one stuff for a while and that really lights me up. But how can I create containers where I'm helping more women that might not be able to afford what my one-on-one is? So, you know, I'm kind of playing around with this idea of scale. And, you know, what can I, what can I create? That's maybe a little bit more self-paced. That's like a nice entry level or then how can I build community in a way that's meaningful and a group of women that like want to get behind that are well-being in business. Oh, so so beautiful. Also really fascinating. I think you just said 2% of female founders make it to that $1 million mark. And I just feel like I follow so many women online that are like, I have a seven-figure business. And so it's really fascinating. A, you know, they could very well not be telling the truth. That's very easy. Or B, just how easily we can convince ourselves that because we saw it on the internet or because, you know, we have 10 accounts that we follow, it's something that we're somehow falling short on. And I love the idea of representation. I love the idea of examples and aspirational content and inspirational content. But I do think we have to be really careful with, I think even a sixth figure business is much, much further removed than most of us think. Oh my god. Yeah. And even doing this mid-year planning with her name's Megan Hale, she's a scaling coach. It's so another number that popped up was just how the 250 mark for most women is the mark in which they feel nervous system regulation when they feel like they can finally like hire authentically and pay people what they want to be able to pay them, right? Against failing teams and being able to actually make an impact. So it's like we feel like that number seems really big like at the point of business that that we're at, but we need to normalize that as being like a normal number to do the things that you want to do. So it's like that's kind of been this like just this thing that's like opened my mental aperture of like okay, we like if if you want to have like a meaningful business, AKA the structure of it, that tends to be a number in which women feel that they can positively contribute. That's really really fascinating. I know you said before we recorded that you're not a numbers person. I am not a numbers person either. I'm mad at my books. I love to ask you data, but for myself, my own personal finances, I am a mess. I'm really good at the tracking. Like I know exactly where every dollar and every cent is and goes and within, but the like big picture like conceptualizing $250 or not $250,000 and what that could mean and yeah, I think especially that hiring you said authentically and paying people what do you want to be paying them and feeling like you have enough money to let go of to then bring in money that you know whatever this position would be bringing in yeah, that's really really fascinating. And what we'll have to make link Megan's website or program or something in the show notes. I'll get that from you after. So what was the one decision or experience that changed the trajectory of your life? I'm sure there were many, but any that comes from all of any yeah kind of my like quintessential pivot moment. You know, I think like I had it was a panic attack honestly. And I landed myself in the hospital from it and it just I had gotten to a point where my body was screaming at me to do something different. And there were a lot of other you know like personal things that were happening in my life that led up to that that also contributed. But I do think like my kind of the way that I had conditioned myself around this version of success in constant hustle and needing to prove your worth through performance. You know, that was always kind of like an underlying theme. And then it just got to a tipping point and yeah, I just looked around at my life and I was like this is this is not who I want to be. This is not how I should feel in my body. This is not how the way I'm contributing to my community and you know the the life I want like this isn't it. So I just kind of had one of those big moments where I kind of burned it all down and rebuilt back again. So in hindsight, I'm really grateful for that moment, but it was a solid like six months of terrible panic and anxiety. So yeah, you know, hopefully like I want to like help show women that you don't have to get to that point. Like that doesn't have we don't have to have of these like epic turning points, right? It can just be something if we put enough awareness into it ahead of time, but that's not something that like your body doesn't have to wake you up. - Yeah. - Slowly see the other side of it on your own. - I think some personalities and situations and you know, whatever you're dealing with, do need that screen. Do need that burn it all down to build it back up completely from scratch. And I think some of us also do better with the whispers, with the, oh, let me just follow this little breadcrum. Let me just see what this small change would do. Oh, let me just see what, changing it one degree or 30 degrees rather than a complete 180 or 360, or well, I guess 360, you do right back where you started. But like, I, some people really do better with that incremental change and that slow and steady progress. And some people take progress in really big strides. And I don't think there's any right or wrong way. Obviously, you know, in terms of regulations and mental and physical health, maybe the whispers are a little bit better. But also, some of us just need, they need a big catalyst. They need a big excuse to finally, finally take that leap or finally know, oh, this, this is what I've been trying to figure out this whole time. Yeah, totally. And in hindsight, like, I had the whispers, right? I just wasn't listening to them the way that I should have. And also like around that time, like I had a death in my family that was, you know, really heartbreaking for me. And I think it was just like a perfect storm of shit that life hands you sometimes. I mean, yeah, you're right. Like sometimes we need those major life events. And you know, sometimes we don't. And there's no right or wrong to it. It's just that that happened to be my experience. Wow. So as a fellow messaging strategist, I want us all to understand and demystify the idea of messaging. There's no right answer. I just love hearing all the different perspectives because so many of my guests work in different industries and everyone has their own lexicon. So I'd love to know what you think of when you hear the word messaging. Messaging to me is your brands like soul personified, right? Like you, like it is your DNA. And then the way that you're sharing that with the world. So yeah, I think that we have, especially how we build brands. Like there is a core message, right? And I do think we need one sort of umbrella core message. But then we have messaging frameworks that can be various scenarios under that. But as long as we're laddering up to that one sentence, then to me, like that brand is doing its job, right? Like take, for example, liquid death, right? Death to plastic, right? That's their core message. And like I know it's also their tagline. But like when you think about that, like you know exactly what their mission is, you know exactly what they're about. And then obviously they have a lot of different micro messaging that lands under that based on, you know, who the person is that they're talking to, what platform they're showing up on and what they're trying to communicate. But my guess, not that I am on liquid deaths, like brand team, but any means. My guess would be like in the background, it is an upside down triangle and everything is laddering up to that one core message. So yeah, to me, it's like there's a peak and then there's all the valleys under. I love that you started this with soul. And then you ended with a framework and DNA. And you just, you definitely are activating the, both parts of the brain, brain and heart. And I'm here for it. I guess I did do that. Yes, that is, that's your, I feel like that is your voice. That's your vibe. That is so core to your messaging. So to that features for visual creatures, right? We need, we need visual ways to understand things. Yeah, especially big picture things like a core message. Like that is big, right? So yeah, thank you for that. Yeah. So what's your favorite way to market yourself? A medium or a method? I'm still figuring that out, to be honest. But yeah, I never really like, I was not a social media person by any means. You prior. So yeah, I feel like I've gotten a lot more comfortable showing up online. And at the end of the day, that's still the most inexpensive way that you can get your message out to the most amount of people. I've had discovery calls with people from all over the world. Thanks to media. So I'm just like as much as we hate the algorithm and as much as like, you know, the people who own the platforms, that is like a whole another story that I could totally rant about. But for me, how I'm kind of framing it at this phase in my life, it's like, it is a, it's a beautiful bridge to people all over the world. Yeah. I think many, many people feel that same way. Or want to feel that way and sort of need a justification like that to continue to show up. Yeah. This would not be an episode of Purpose and Progress podcast if we don't talk about values. And we sort of mentioned it in passing. But I would love to know either how you integrate your values into your messaging and your marketing and/or some values aligned decisions you make beyond your copy content conversations. Mm. Wait, so how, the questions, how do I integrate my values? Yeah. Where do you value show up? Yeah. You know, I think of like, one of my big values is like question growth always. Mm-hmm. So, you know, even personal life and professional life, I've seen so many people just grow for the sake of it, right? Not kind of thinking about like we were talking about earlier, why they're growing. What's the purpose of that growth? Um, so for me, it's like when an opportunity comes across my table, I'm like, okay, but why? You know, it might sound really exciting and I might like, you know, have that Hell Yes energy, but unless I can validate where it's going to, when it's going to lead to a little bit or how it's going to serve my larger purpose, I question it. Um, so that kind of like self inquiry is just like baked into my programming. Mm-hmm. And I bet that carries over really, really seamlessly into your client work as well. Yeah, there's also this book I read at the beginning of my journey called Company of One by Paul Jarvis, highly recommend, but that's what the whole book is about. It's just like the power in staying small and it really just kind of like helped shape the way I view business building. Ooh, lovely. I will link it in the show notes. Um, and then what is one tactical tip you can share about messaging, marketing that will save people, especially multi passionate deep thinkers, time or money or energy. What's a tip you have? Yes, I love this question. I actually, I'm going to pull from my experience working at Nickelodeon in my past life, but one of my favorite bosses actually had kind of instilled this in me and I take it with me today is that if you can't put it on a post, it no, you haven't landed on the idea yet. So just the power and brevity, right? Like just being able to hyper simplify a mission vision message, right? In a way that resonates and still allows people to understand what you're building and why you're building it. That's my biggest tip. Ooh, that's so good. Uh, and that's very similar to the core message to the one word problem you're solving. Yeah. Um, I know you found so simple, but it's just a hard part. Yeah, no, it like that's why elevator pitches are sometimes harder than bios, which are sometimes harder than about page, which are sometimes, you know, like it's it boiling down the essence, seeing the essence and seeing the trees through the forest. That is the hard part. That's why people bring us in because that's really, really hard to do. Um, yeah. Okay, so I'm certain everyone is going to be loving everything you just said. How can they stay connected with you? Yeah, um, well, I'm Emily Dean on Instagram, TikTok. Um, I'm just about, I'm just starting an email, um, an email newsletter. I'm grads. That's my neighborhood medium. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's still kind of like the most personal way that you can show it for your people. So I'm here for that. Um, and then I'm also working on a actually a tiny visual course that is all about messaging. So if that picture interest, um, I've got something for you. And then of course, I'm also going to launch my group cohort. It's called the brand reset lab. And that's going to launch in August, which will be live by the time people, people listen to this. You might think, I mean, I second cohort by, by the time you go live, but yeah, every quarter. So come join me. Hey, lovely. Well, thank you. Thank you so so much. I'll have all of that linked in the show notes and Emily, what a pleasure. Thank you so much for having me. This was a delight and it's not raining anymore. Look at that. Oh, I did that just so you know. Thank you. Thank you for your service. Thanks so much for listening in. It's a privilege to be in your ear and on your mind. This is the place where values spark action. So hopefully after today's episode, you're inspired to take confident meaningful action or your vision. If you want more rants, reflections and resources, straight to your inbox every Tuesday, head to ashleysang.com/newsletter. It's linked in the show notes and the description. And remember your message matters. Thanks again and I'll catch you next week.