Nolan, Spielberg, Ellison, Cruise(!), and the CinemaCon Studio Power Ranking

(bell ringing) This episode of The Town is presented to you by AMC Networks. Billy Magnuson and Zach Galpinakis star in the new series The Audacity on AMC and AMC Plus. Influence rises, people unravel, and CEO meltdowns are business as usual among Silicon Valley elite. Executive produced by Jonathan Glatzer, a writer, producer of succession, and better call Saul. Watch new episodes of The Audacity, Sundays exclusively on AMC and AMC Plus. It is Friday, April 17th. Craig and I are just back from Cinemacon, the big movie theater convention, it's used as Palace in Las Vegas. We again braved these smoky air and rascal scooters and went to pretty much all the big presentations and parties. Thanks to everyone who said hello as I was trying to avoid the studio PR people asking what I really thought of their trailers or while I was stuffing my face with no Bursushi at the Universal Party, I did make sure to ask Chris Nolan the important questions of that party, like whether he's seen those videos of himself walking through the crowded city walk to get to the IMAX movie theater, spoiler alert, he has seen them. I heard several people at Cinemacon this year note that it was the most enthusiastic and well attended convention of the post-COVID era. I think I agree with that. Probably because the box office is up more than 20% this year, but it's also because there's a sense of hope that if Amazon can keep releasing movies like Project Hail Mary and the traditional studios all return to meaningful theatrical windows, which is pretty much happening these days more and more at least, theaters actually have a chance at survival. Having said that, there were some great stuff in these presentations, a lot of kind of whatever footage, some horror scares we've seen a thousand times, and some true WTF, what the hell moments. So now it's time to rank the presentations. For that, I haven't listed my fellow ringer podcast network colleagues, John Fennesy and Amanda Dobbins. They host the big picture, very popular movie podcast. Unlike me, they have great taste. We want their takes and mine on the individual movies. We did a separate chat on the big picture feed. Our rankings today on the town are about the business, of course. Will these upcoming movies find an audience? Did the stars do their jobs properly and promoting them? Why in the world were some executives allowed to speak when they can't even read a damn teleprompter? Et cetera, et cetera. Today we're going to rank the studios and their Cinemacon presentations, the good, the bad, and the masters of the universe. From the ringer and puck, I'm Matt Bellany, and this is the town. [MUSIC PLAYING] OK, we are here live in person at the ringer headquarters in downtown Los Angeles with John Fennesy, Amanda Dobbins, of the big picture podcast and my seatmates at Cinemacon for the past week. What did I do that was annoying, other than playing words with friends during the horror trailers? Oh, no. I didn't notice that. And I think this-- and we all have to cope in the way that we can. I just can't see another dagger go through someone's head. Yeah, you are not very supportive of my minions enthusiasm, but-- I am pro minions. We are in pro minions, by the way. You and Robert De Niro. Yeah, we are. All right, so thank you for coming on. We are going to go through our rankings of the presentations. We are going to judge them on the following criteria. OK, did they have the goods? That's the number one criteria. And for that, I will need your opinions on the movies, as we know in the show. My opinions about the quality of movies do not matter. I am here to judge the business of the movies. But it's the quality of the goods. It's the materials, the trailers, the footage, et cetera. Number two, star power. Who did they get there? There was a big drama because Trump was in town, and the private jet runways were clogged up. Some of the Disney talent had to fly commercial yesterday. Oh, for shame. I know. Awful, awful. And the rock fit in those business class seats. That seems like a Netflix movie with Kevin Hart. We can say that on this podcast. We are not on Netflix. Second class. Starring Kevin Hart. Not a rock. So star power is, who was there? How they were used, who did not show up. And we're going to deduct some points for overstaying their welcome. Too much of a good thing. And then three is the presentations themselves. Production value, use of talent, length, executive performance. We know these are not professional performers. But some of these, like Jesus Christ, like pass the baton if you're not going to be comfortable on stage. All right. So let's go through the rankings. Who would like to go first for their number one presentation? I have a feeling we are all going to pick the same one. We did it. So she's Ag. I said, you want it, Sid, would you like to start? Yeah, I'll start because I know you guys are going. I'm choosing Warner Brothers. Now, I thought Warner Brothers presentation was a little bit unusual relative to what we usually get at cinema con. One, a lot of time spent on what happened in 2025. The incredible success. Someone they need an editor because they presented the same facts in 12 different ways. Did you know we won the most Oscars that we have in our history? Did you know we tied the record for the most nominations for a studio? Yes. All of that. It was very long, too long. It was extravagant and not always considerate. However, by the criteria that you've set, they had to meet the single best piece of footage and the best moment of star power in the same presentation at the conclusion, which was their last piece of the puzzle was "Dune Part III," which for us is a huge movie that we're all excited about. A legendary movie, which was not really discussed on stage. It was presented as a big one of whatever. Very true. I agree. That was the best individual movie presentation of the entire thing. When you look at star power, they not only had the filmmaker and Dene. They had Zendaya. They had Timmy, the two biggest stars out there right now. And the footage was unbelievably good. It was really the talk of the entire weekend or week, I should say. And then on top of that-- And they knew it. They finished with this. Yeah. And they closed with that for a reason. And then on top of that, I thought they had a lot of interesting stuff. The digger Tom Cruise was on stage, talking with Alejandro Gonzales y Nareeto about their new film, which seems audacious at a minimum, and maybe even quite good. And his performance looks very exciting. And he is all in on this movie, as you can tell, by his attendance there. There were also a couple of other components. I thought the introduction of clockwork, the new shingle that they're doing, and the announcement of Sean Baker's film being a part of that shingle was really exciting. And they managed to keep that secret until they announced it. It was not been reported, which is a big flex. Yes. And then a handful of other titles just for me personally that I'm excited about, an evil dead movie, the end of Oak Street, the new David Robert Mitchell movie starring in "Half Away," moral combat, too, for the '80s kids out there. So there was enough there in the middle of the presentation. And they also had Pat Noswald, who was a confirmed movie freak as the kind of host for this entire-- But it was so psychophantic. I can't stand that. That's for Comic Con. Do that at Comic Con. These are professionals. These are theater owners. Like, you don't have to just be slabbering all over the talent for an hour and a half. To me, I have Warner's as my fourth. So I'm in the middle. I have them at number two, because I agree with Sean that the star power was undeniable in the highlight. You didn't even mention Sandra Bullock and Nicole Kidman, who came out to present practical led to. That was delightful. And it was wonderful to just bask in their glow from the nosebleeds. So I think that they had a lot of people. They did have Tom Cruise. They had a lot of splashy moments. They did have one negative. And so you said that according to your criteria, we're going to subtract-- Yes. --for things going to rye. And Supergirl was on this stage. And I don't think either in terms of the presentation itself, which featured Jason Mamoa and Millie Aukok, Millie Aukok wearing a Chanel Supergirl sweater that I think they're going to ask to be returned after her-- She just wasn't prepped. Much like David Cornsweat was not prepped last year. But-- I don't understand this. They had negative feedback to that part of the presentation last year. And this year they just ran it back. They did the exact same thing. And somehow it went even longer. The presenters were less ready, even though the questions were the most softball questions. It was, what was a specific scene that you enjoyed? Millie Aukok did not have an answer. There was no one defeating her one specific moment. This is press training 101. I do not know how it happened. And Peter Safran is actually good and fun in these situations that go ahead of DC. At one point he asked her what it was like working with the dog. Like punch me in the face. And she was also like there was no dog. She's like, "Don't believe what you believe on the screen." You're not admit there's not a dog. I know. Like, oh, the dog. I'm supposed to pretend that I acted opposite a dog. That's CGI. And then I have to be honest. The footage that they showed was never ending and dire. In my opinion, I thought that that looked quite bad. She had no charisma. It was not prepped. No. And it was just embarrassing. Like, if you're going to do it, do it. Yeah. And I felt that way over and over again where they did the same thing as last year. They bring people out to have a conversation where the questions are written by 10 publicists. They're approved by four publicists for each talent. We get no one's giving answers. and it's just a whole lot of nothing. - The thing is, is that there are some people who are really good at this kind of thing. We saw a few examples of it this week. We saw Jack Black. You just put Jack Black on stage. He's been performing on stage for 35 years. He's incredibly comfortable in environments like that. He knows how to hit his laugh lines. He knows how to be exciting. The rock vamps during the Moana presentation for 10 minutes, 'cause he's extremely gifted at that kind of thing. - I guess so. It was fairly aimless in about being a girl, dad, and empowering woman. - Which I tune out of some point. - Honestly, if you put 95% of Hollywood stars on stage to do something like that, they would fail. - Yes. - They would not be able to hold the moment. And so you just can't put people up there who don't know how to do that work. - They don't do it. I know. - I agree. - I could record a video. - That was by far the low point of the Warner Brothers presentation by far. - Yeah, I just, some of it was annoying. You mentioned them patting themselves on the back over and over again. Great. No mention of the bride. No mention of the fact that this year is not gonna match like what they did last year. Like none of that. They talked over and over about Oscars and the theater owners do not give a shit about Oscars. They want box office. They also had this whole originality pitch, which great. They had original hits last year and that's kind of what they've been dining out on. But you do the originality pitch and then you present two DC movies, A Dune, "A Lord of the Rings," "An Evil Dead," "A Game of Thrones" movie, "A Weapon Spin-Off," "Practical Magic 2." It's like, "Guys, what are we doing?" - Yeah. - I mean, they're in a very complicated position right now because is that slate gonna be absorbed into a larger company or not? And do they need to have big projects like this or should they be taking more bets right now? I find that given the situation that that studio is in, I think that they sold their slate pretty well and it made me feel not like they were about to become like a part of the Bork. - And they certainly did not mention it or acknowledge at any point. - Well, but the messaging was pretty clear. I mean, one person, I talked to called it funeral, meaning this is their equivalent of when Tom Rothman, who was at Fox 10 years ago, got up and played the 20th Century Fox fanfare during the last presentation of 20th Century Fox as a standalone studio. They looked at this as the final Warner Brothers presentation as a standalone studio. They literally brought up all the executives at the end and put them on stage as kind of a, both congratulations and also maybe help wanted. This kind of had an audience of one. Hey, David Ellison, we did well last year. We've got tons of franchise. You like franchises? We're doing a Game of Thrones movie. They put it all in the press release and just fire hosted out to everyone as one last stand. If you had to say right now in 2028, well Mike and Pam be running the Warner Brothers film slate. - In 28, if I was on a betting app, I would say yes, but it would not surprise me if they were running Sony. - Yeah, that was the way. - Yeah, and this cross-flying mind is well. - Let's say if Rothman leaves after the Beatles movies, then they need someone, like they've done this a couple of times, they've gotten a movie studio to spend a lot of money and then be sold. They could do it for Sony too. - Well, I saw their performance and they have a very funny back and forth energy, but I saw their weird boob joke. - Yeah, he always gets a little craze to the line there. - You made a joke about grabbing boob in a theater. - Well, it was related to Pat Naswell. - Yeah, right. - Pat Naswell did do it very seriously. - Anyhow, it felt like a little bit of an audition from them too. A little bit of a look at what we did and look at what we can do. We can manage IP and also we can do the original stuff and that's our skill set. - So, do you think some of it was also them trumpeting their own year at because at this time, last year and at the presentation, last year, their jobs were very much in the balance. And here they are a year later and things are going well, at least for them. - For now. - For now. - All right, so let's move on to what I assume is your number one and is my number one. Would you like to make the reins? - It is once again, I believe, universal. Though this year's universal presentation was very different from last year's, which was big on fanfare. They had this symphony orchestra playing all of the great music. They had a bunch of meggins, like a lot of bits. And this year, they didn't need to do any, you know, showy stuff because they had Spielberg in the house and Spielberg movie. They had Christopher Nolan in the house and Christopher Nolan movie. They have the minions. They just had Super Mario Galaxy. It was pretty light on movie star. - How dare you not mention other mommy? - Oh, sure. Well, this is a great title ever to be bestowed upon a movie. - I'm excited about their smaller stuff. You know, I like they have sense and sensibility on the focus that they have when they only, which you don't understand the premise of, but that's okay, we'll find out together. So, the purge the romcom is a good encapsulation of that movie. - Yes, but also like aren't, won't you go see the purge the romcom? - Maybe. - Maybe, okay. - I do like Monica Barbaro and go to-- - Yeah, counter-turners. - They have a lot of smaller stuff, but they didn't really need to pat it out. - Yeah. - Because they have disclosure day, which, you know, even if I know from a box office perspective, that's something of a question mark, but like they can still say, "Hey, look, it's Steven Spielberg." And we have a new Steven Spielberg Alien movie. - And he's never been to Super Mario. - I don't understand how that's possible. - It's crazy. - Yeah. - Maybe he had enough cloud to say no in the past and he just wasn't interested in that, but unbelievable, he's never been. - Yeah, and Nolan and two clips from the Minions. - I know. I thought we were getting a third. - I know. - I was confident we would get a third. I'm like, oh my god, he started like talking about the plot. - He recaps the entire movie. I'm excited for Minions versus Monsters. I didn't want it spoils. - I know. - We also got Robert De Niro's 80-Win-Year-Old Biceps in a new comedy. - Oh, I'm sure. - Thank you. - I'm very glad to hear your name. - Oh, thank you. - Yes, yes. - Yeah, yeah. - Yeah, yeah. And, you know, this is not a pro Ben Stiller podcast. I think he's got issues with him and I think his reputation in town is not great. But I think this movie will work. - I do too. - Yeah, I do too. And Craig certainly does. I'm in. I am in. - Yeah, I'm in. - I already speak around now. Into the mix here. - De Niro, Charming is ever. And, you know, when it's like award shows, when these people can take the stupid banter that's written for them and kind of make it fun, then it works. - Yeah, I mean, they made it work. So, you know, 10 years of hosting the MTV movie Awards for Ben Stiller, where he's just like very comfortable in that environment. And they, you know, those, all three of those movies are a varying degrees of quality, but they all were successes. And this new Focker Law is going to be almost certainly a big hit. I, you know, it's interesting that they literally only had the Jack Black Ben Stiller, Robert De Niro, and then Steven Spielberg and Coleman Domingo and Chris Nolan and Snoop Dogg opened the three. - Snoop Dogg, yes. Donna Langley, the head of Universal, she is, I think, probably the only studio head that could have mixed it up with Snoop in a way that was fun. And him kind of nudging her a little was playful and it wasn't lame. She also took a shot at Tom Rothman during her presentation saying she wasn't going to scream at everybody like he did. He told them to, what was it? Get off the ad crack. - He did. - Which I also respect. He gets points for that. But she gets points for going after him twice actually that. And she said something about the Olympic rings, which he used and they obviously have the Olympics relations. - He violated the copyright on stage. - So she gets points for that. And they get points for overall presentation and having two legends on stage, showing footage. I also think the fact that they showed an entire movie gets you plus. They showed an entire movie, Dreamer's movie, Forgotten Island, which people said was very good. I didn't go. I know I'm going to have to see this movie with my kids so I didn't want to see it there. But you get points if you are confident enough to show a movie in full. - Yeah. I think that makes sense. We didn't go see it for the exact same reason because we'll just go see that movie with our kids as well. But Universal's on this a few years in a row now too. They usually are comfortable with their, with the work that they have, especially in those divisions too with films made for kids. Like they showed us a lot of minions. They didn't have to show us as much of minions as they did. And I think both Spielberg and Nolan got pumps out of this, especially Spielberg. That calmed a lot of nerves about what that movie is, at least from my perspective. Nolan didn't really need it. We're all going to see it anyways. But it got me very excited. I hadn't seen that footage yet. - He's in the, the, the, the, the, the, the Odyssey isn't a good spot. - Yeah. - All right. Number two. Can I go? - God. - Yeah. - I'm going Disney. - I'm going to be boring, effective. - Yeah. - I, and with a caveat that I missed the last part of it, because I had to go right my newsletter. So I did not see the big Avengers reveal. We can talk about that. - Even without Doomsday you're going Disney. That's really fast. - Yeah. You and I both have it a bit lower. - Yes. - I have it at number four. - As do I. - I only did, I almost had it as one. But I would have liked to see Dana Walden, the new head of all content at Disney, make her big debut there. She is over movies now. I know, I mean, she's a career TV executive. She was there. She came to my talk with John Favreau. I would have liked to see her on stage, at least kind of making a presence. Mike Hopkins, who runs all of Prime Video, just similar job to hers. He was there and spoke and she did not. So that was a little weird. But I think that Toy Story 5 is going to be massive. - Yes. - And does exactly what these theater owners want. I think that Mandalorian showing 17 minutes of-- it was a statement of confidence. You didn't love the footage. I thought it was better, but showing it like they they clearly felt they needed to boost the narrative on that movie. And I think they kind of did. Do you disagree? No, it shows that they believe in it and that they are not as worried as I say it. I think we all are or people who kind of see saw the Super Bowl commercial and are just like, okay, well, there's some rumors that they're worried about it. Some have noted that they haven't put tickets as we're taping they have not put tickets on sale yet, which some have suggested might be because they're afraid of the results. I don't know that that's true. I think that the early tracking that we've seen has been strong, but not Star Wars strong. Yeah. So they have some work to do. What's the bar? I mean, what's the bar? Star Wars is the gold standard of movie going over the last 50 years. Right. It is the signature movie going event of the last 50 years. So that is the standard. This is the first streaming series to make the transition to a movie, but it's also Star Wars. So it's a little mixed up there, but I think they got a boost. They're favreau. I know I interviewed them. I'll say he's always a good advocate, not just for his movies, but for the industry at large. And he's got the track record with the theater people. I think the star power was great. All the stars you expected, Tim Allen. They got out there. They got, you know, they got the rock. They got Tom Haney. Yeah. Robert Downey Jr. Chris Evans. They got all their stars out. To me, it's really just that, you know, on the big picture, you use the phrase D risk is what they've done. They're film slate. And their film slate to me is just not that interesting. It is probably going to be very successful. And we've already seen an original movie from them this year with Hoppers, but there's not really hardly anything original. Well, Disney proper. And they didn't show hexed, right? No, they did. They showed it. And so this is the thing is that in terms of the presentation, they it was not risky, but the energy really, really did kind of fall throughout the presentation from the first 17 minutes of Mando, which is exciting, but like long. So people were kind of they weren't sure when it was going to stop. Yeah. And then and then hexed, I would say that the Moana clip was under enthusiastic in the room. You know, this the smaller movies kind of quiet. So and then the Avengers of it all did feel a little thirsty and forced. I know it's going to do well. Like I've been saying that for a long time, people have dunked on me saying, what are you talking about? I am not saying that Avengers is not going to do well. It is going to be huge, but it is now up against Dune 3. The Dune 3 trajectory is really strong. And it has movie stars that people feel are a lot fresher right now than these Marvel guys who are playing back the hits that were popular 10 years ago. And Robert Danny Jr. and Chris Evans were there on stage again, but like much like as at the Oscars, their chemistry is not really there. You know, you had the announcement of Infinity Vision, which was like very funny, but it's just we talk about this a little on picture, but dizzy. Come on. Like you cannot expect us to take this and not make fun of it. I mean, it is a joke. It is a joke. They are taking the non iMacs PLF screens, which the the exhibition industry has been talking about branding the non iMacs screens in a some way that people will be excited about them in a way that they're excited about iMacs because these theaters people come up and say two tickets in iMacs, please. Oh, we don't offer that. Like they don't they don't know the difference. Infinity Vision, like, is this going to work? I think it's like a helpful thing to put on a poster and might actually work long term, but anybody anybody talking about it right now is probably making fun of it. There's no one who's like, I cannot wait to see what Infinity Vision really looks and feels like on the big screen because it is invented. It is a it is a creation and an attempt to undermine the opposition. That's really all it's operating. And to make up to take a little bit of brand equity out of Disney and spread it across the the an area where they don't have an advantage. Also, is there a dude has all the iMacs screen? Is there an upcharge attached to this experience? That's something that is a normal upcharge of the PLF for whatever format. But if this this is Infinity Vision only available on a PLF screen? I believe so. Yeah. I mean, they didn't ask me if I'm like on a Dolby screen or my understanding is it's going to be all of them. If you go to see Avengers on a PLF screen, there's no iMacs, so all of it is going to be called Infinity Vision. Okay. I can't even say it's a certification. It's like this gets the stamp of approval. It's like another card to card. It is a marketing adventure. You're a dungeon than dragon. This is a marketing. This is a dawn draper special. It is a marketing invention. In the same way that I am a certified award winning podcaster. Yeah. Which means a lot. Did we win any? No, we have one. Yeah. No, but so it felt it felt a little desperate or just you know, like they are showing signs of weakness and that's why you're right that it's just going to make all the money and I know this is the business podcast, but I think Sean and I are a slightly resistant of that's okay. But if Dune can take a couple hundred million out of Avengers, which I think it can, I'm worried if I'm dizzy because part of the narrative of Marvel right now needs this. They need this to exceed expectations. They can't have this do what Avatar 3 did. Yeah. Which did great by any normal expectation. 1.5 billion is great by Avatar expectation. That's kind of not great. And if this movie does 1.5, are they happy? I don't know. Yeah. I think it throws a real wrench into the long term plans of the Marvel studio. Honestly, I think if the if the Moot if Doomsday significantly underperforms relatives who avengers expectations, it's something that we've talked about for many years on this show. Actually, I think the first time I came on the town, we talked about the dip in quality in Marvel and what was really happening with Marvel. And that was almost five years ago. And so this has been a slow moving train towards this this concern and a lot of this stuff now we're more and more suspicious of because they have not been able to turn the public sentiment. The movie still can make a lot of money. Yeah. It just is it enough for it to set the pathway for the next 10 years in the business? Right. All right. What about your number two? My number two is universal. Okay. For all the reasons that we talk about. So then let's go to number three. Yeah. I'm I'm zagging on my number. Oh, please. You and I are once again matched. Are you on? Did you choose this as well? No, I'm matched with Matt. Oh, okay. You guys are matched. I'm going with Sony. Oh, wow. Okay. And here's why I missed the last year was the disaster. Last year was karate kid. I missed last year. And the and the Braun out Beatles stuff. And yeah, so I missed all that. I wouldn't say that Sony has the best film slate. I wouldn't say it's the most powerful studio or even the most interesting studio. I think it has a couple of things that are helpful for this game that we're playing. One is that they closed the show with Dwayne Norek Johnson, Jack Black and Kevin Hart, who were three very big movie stars in a Jumaj movie. I don't really care about, but they hit the mark there. Can we give an award for the best use of Jack Black at Cinemacon? He was there for three presentations. So was he for one of them? He was just a screen. He only did a video for Minecraft too, but he did sing a version of the song. That's right. But I'm like, he was for Super Mario. He came out for Super Mario and just did his stick. So I think number one is probably the Sony one. And he was in the room for Sony. So what does it say that he was presumably still in Las Vegas, but did not come out on stage for Warner Brothers? We don't know where he was. But that's true. We can either confirm or deny. I don't know. Maybe he did not. He didn't want to overdo it or maybe Warner didn't need him or want him because that movie's not coming out for a long time. Right. Other things about Sony, one, obviously they have Spider-Man brand new day and there's a lot of pomp and circumstance. No Tom Holland in person. He was there via a virtual video screen, which is quite strange. The reason that I'm picking this and there are there are movies on the slate. I love. I'm really interested in the Resident Evil movie. There's a lot of horror movies that they have that look interesting. The announce another night and gale officially happening with the fanning sisters. But Tom Rothman on the on the back three of his career, just talking shit to movie theaters was incredibly enjoyable. Love it. Only he could do that. And they were they weren't booing. No, but they certainly didn't love being told that they are they need to get off the ad crack. Yes. So get rid of the endless advertising and substantially shorten the pre show. That was the quote. And he was looking directly at them when he said, and I know for a fact, because I'm in movie theaters all the time. This is how everyone who goes to the movies feels. Exactly what I know. I know. I know. I loved it. I was a great man. And he's kind of on a heater lately. He came on the town and he's been preaching. He wrote a New York Times piece about the the the windows situation. I love it. I think that there should be more shit talking at Cinemacon. I would love it if they were back and forth. Like our movie was way better. Their movies. They say that they're the highest cruising studio, but they're not. That kind of stuff. I love the social reckoning presentation. My thoughts on Jeremy Strong. You can get over on the big picture. I'm a big fan of this performance already, even though we've only seen snippets of it. And if it turns horribly wrong, I will accept no accountability for that fandom. But the fact that they brought Sorca out and he talked about his movies not coming out until October. Oh, it's October. I thought it was December. Yeah. One other thing too that they have that I think is interesting is I do feel like the video game era is upon us and they have this synergy with placing So they have all these properties that if we are actually moving away from superheroes and into video games They announced both bloodborne and hell divers happening and I think that their slate will continue to be Developed around that material Absolutely. They now have an advantage. They have two advantages Sony has that they've never had before the anime boom That's right. They have that pipeline through crunchy roll and they have PlayStation. Yeah Do we think people care still about Jumanji? I'll admit when I saw it. I was like, oh, yeah, they're like other characters. I mean those movies play really well overseas And that's part of the reason why they've done so well at the box office that we never have we ever discussed one of them ever on the show No, but now we have children of movie going age. So that's we might suddenly be caring about them. Yeah, I know I I think my kid would be Interested but I got to show him the originals it feels like you kind of need to know the premise. Yes, the Robin Williams original Yeah, yeah, so all right. Let's move on my number three and This was a surprise to me given that last year was sort of a mixed bag from them. I'm gonna say Amazon MGM studios They're learning mine as well their second presentation was better than their first They did take a lot out of the universal playbook in terms of people on motorcycles a live musical performance from job Updies to open it. There was there was fanfare and they even the star power some of it was from a movie that's already been released In project Hilmarie. That's true, but I appreciated that they're like oscilling in and it was funny. He's always good They know that yes, so it was it was smart But no, I have them as well because of the fanfare and then I think that they're this year's project Hilmarie is Thomas Crown Affair directed by Michael B. Jordan Academy Award winner Michael B. Jordan, which was prominent. They flashed that right away It will be released in March 2027. So it's the same playbook and we and look good. Yes, and I'm excited personally for that movie And he's charming and was great out there and they had chemistry with the female leads. Oh, yes, I thought that was smart to lead with that um, you know their executives like Mike Hopkins is he I appreciated that he came out they maybe could have used him less. Oh yeah, I think I think Amazon's executive team still needs a little polish. Yeah, there's a showperson quality Yeah, you have to have to be able to do this one of the reasons why I shouted out rofman is he's very comfortable in his skin He's done it many many times at that show. He loves talking people like that. Porte Valente less comfortable Kevin Wilson their distribution guy was a little bit more and was Carried most of the presentation on the back half they have some cool looking stuff I think they're they're also pushing a lot of original movies that are interesting to me Um, we saw cultism i passport be keeper two um, there's new David leech bank ice movie which look we'll see um The head space balls, you know, space balls was a great presentation Mel Brooks was via video made a very funny joke about not being there because he was going to fish But it was the first person I'm sorry about to make the joke. Yeah, I made that joke. Yes um, but Masters of the universe. Yeah, can we talk about this? So that was the disaster of last year's cinema con where they showed the workout video of the star I'm not gonna let's go. Let's end. Yeah, okay, you said I could I butchered every time They seem to be leaning into the fact that we all know how Chinsy it looks. They handed out foam swords. Yeah, oh, those are foam with other plastic. They were foam I took one I posed with one and then I this morning I gave it to my daughter um And she said I have the power now she has the power And I you know, I I was obsessed with he man when I was five years old And I would love for this movie to be good and I'm a little concerned. They they have not articulated why Who this audience who this movie is for? Because ostensibly when you look at it it looks like it's for 10 year olds But 10 year olds don't know or care about he man. Yeah, so presumably it's for you and me Who grew up with the character and might want to bring our child to it? Yeah But to me it looks god awful and it doesn't it looks fake and cheap and Well, there's there there has been masters of the universe stuff on Netflix There was a he man show there was a sheerah show like that IP has been since been mined in the last five years So there is some awareness of it among younger people obviously not at the level that when we were kids But it just I mean, it's a big movie directed by Travis Knight and there's like tons of effects work And who's in the Transformers movie I liked oh, yeah, I mean he's a I think he's a really talented director It's not motion animation films are really really good. It's not about that. I think it's more just like I feel like they've missed the tone like they didn't land comedy. They didn't land pure fantasy action Like it feels a little bit stuck and he almost felt like he was embarrassed a little out there And he's got to sell this movie. Yeah, and they were Yeah, but but they were joking about like guys muscles Old time and like did we mention the muscles and yeah, that's very different from last year when they were presenting This is much more of a traditional kind of superhero action-y style movie And I think that's part of the problem we were talking about clay face on the big picture Which is a movie that understands what it is and who it is for which is people who know what clay faces and As long as they keep the budgets in check it being just a successful movie for a specific audience will be worthwhile Massers of the universe Is very clearly not for me Amanda Dobbins who never watched team in but they have positioned it and seemingly budgeted it as something That is supposed to be for everyone is supposed to be that big superhero thing and it's not gonna be that Okay, so who do you guys have for three? I had Sony and Sony and you had Amazon. Yeah, well, we didn't say Verity But I'm I am all in on Verity and I have thought every other calling who were adaptation I've seen is was quite poor I did appreciate them giving out the Verity book. Yes, but I left it in Vegas because I don't want to know I just want to go and hold the scene I'm never gonna read that Well, that's nice But it looks that movie looks like the Distillation of what works in that genre. I agree like scheming women that there may be and they may be over fighting over the Man there may be some other secret right they sort of look like they almost make out at one point. Yeah, there's a murder But it's not going on and halfway. It's Dakota Johnson. It's Josh Hartnett. It's like, you know, it's the a version of that. Yes, I Okay Let's go to number four then see I had warners for four. I have Disney. Yeah, I as well have Disney at four That's really just about the quality of the movies to me, but see you also care about the quality I also have energy in the room also that there was really high energy at times for doomsday But I came away feeling very cold about that and I think what they showed us was a real like Jingling keys like remember when you had so much fun in 2019 feeling and didn't really feel like any ingenuity creativity And more importantly, why are we here like what is this story? What are we doing? We have not been building towards this story I felt that are these characters why are they all together? I had a bit of an existential moment During the Amazon presentation when they showed the trailer for that sheep movie Oh, yeah, yeah, Sean the big believer in a row. Yeah, we saw it last year and we thought it was a parody last year I honestly didn't know if it was real I I agree with it But then they changed the name. It's now called the sheep detectives which arguably I don't know not better They got detective in the time. Yeah, but I started thinking like wow, where's my life right now? Where I'm sitting here in Las Vegas watching the sheep movie trailer for the second time in two years Wait until we do a whole episode about I know I know so did you feel that way during doomsday? Um I've already gone through those those emotional cycles with the Marvel films which I quite liked in the 2010s um And now I think I'm on the other side of something and so maybe that's just coming through here And I think a lot of people are going to be made really happy by the movie Do you believe that all the hoop like the people that were hooting and screaming for that do you believe they were paid plants? Because we talk about this I believe in nature. Disney denies it But there were clearly influencers there. Yes, absolutely. There was a core group of people who were given access to cinema con um Who were not there last year and who were very clearly given access Because of their particular interest In doomsday and in it wasn't just that it was it was the genre is like I don't I do I think at my heart I don't really care if they were there and paid like I do I if they're gaming the system like that and then these outlets are reporting on the Ovation's and buzz and that But that just means it's incumbent upon us to say what we think is really happening like that to me This is a trade show. It's like the studios should be doing everything they can to generate excitement for their movies But that hate people to do it that crowd is famously Not a fanboy crowd right It is a business crowd. It is a it is not a hot room as they say you got to really be impressive or bring a big star In order to get attention and if you're just gonna pay influencers to cheer at your trailer then what's the point of any of it? I think the Disney is at number four for both me and Sean because in that moment in the room it felt If not fake then forced to make the lecture yeah and and like it was maybe not gonna correlate certainly not to the quality of the movie But outside of that room and to the box office at large the whole presentation to me felt like reheating a souffle Which is I know what Hollywood is at this point And the Disney in 2026 but but but that is it did feel like you were not gonna get the same experience And so I think for both of us I had it higher because it works. It's your it does work You're right. And this is the business pie. The most effective cinema con moment, the history of cinema con. I've been going over a long time was that one year when they showed the placard of what's coming from Disney over the next five years, this was in like 2017 or whatever, when it was just like banger after banger after billion dollar movie. And I and people looked at it and there was literal like awe. Yeah. What they were doing. I think if you're, but I think if that's your mentality, then I think it's actually fine to be okay with people being paid to generate. Yeah. I guess. Yeah. It's not like an address to Congress. It's a, it's a little bit. But that was impressive to people who weren't being paid. Right. Right. Right. You know, Disney's had some rough spots with movies that didn't work and Marvel is where it is. And the Pixar and original animation question. So I was a little bit more impressed that they put this all together. But again, I didn't see Hexd or Avengers. Yeah. Hexd will be huge in my household. No doubt whether or not it's going to be a hit work as a movie is hard to say. Okay. So what does that label? Who have we knocked out? Oh, yeah. Well, we all have the same number. We have the last play. So let's play the sad draw bone, Craig. And let's go into Paramount. I have as my subhead Yikes slate. So they vamped pretty much. I know they did a lot. There was a lot there. So let's talk about David Ellison. I wrote about this in my newsletter and how he sort of ignited this war amongst the theater owners because one, the big one, AMC is now supporting him based on what he said there. He got up on stage. It was a surprise. He said, I'm looking you in the eye. And I am giving you my word that I am going to commit to a 45 day window for theatrical and a 90 day window at minimum to streaming. And I'm doing it right now. So this has all been talk. And he started it with the next two movies. I think that was a big deal because it's more than talk. It is a commitment to do it right now. Whether this is going to last beyond when this merger closes, anybody's guess, I don't take his word. I don't think anyone should. There's no incentive for anyone to believe anyone in this business. David Zazlov came to Hollywood and said he's building water brothers for the next generation. Three years later, he's selling to get himself $800 million. So don't believe anybody. But they did produce this video, but a considerable expense that touted Paramount as like the new home of talent. And they got all their stars in it to do this thing, including Tom Cruise. What did you think about it? And be on the lot. And it was all shot on the lot with big shots of LA. The implication there was we're a good neighbor. We're part of your community. We're supporting movie stars. These people are all behind us. We are here to stay. And it's intercut with old footage of the Paramount lot and look at the history here. And we respect Holly. And there's Will Smith and Miles Teller and John. And Jerry. Holly would like, you know, Timothy Shalame takes a chocolate out of the forest gum chocolate box on a bench. All you know, I think grown a little of that. Of course. And then don't you directed. We should say that. And the climactic image was Tom Cruise sitting barefoot. I would note a top the Paramount water tower with the vistas of Los Angeles all around him. So it felt like filler and protesting too much and was also just a commercial for Paramount that David Elson kept referring to as a short film. And I was like, we have different definitions. I gotta be honest. I wasn't really that bothered by this. I kind of like. I like it. I'm gonna make it. I like it. I think it's show business right? And he's got to win this war, right? And he's fighting this war. And there's a lot going against him. And I can't say I'm very excited about this merger at all. I can't say I'm really happy with anything he's done with CBS news, for example. I have real doubts about whether or not this is going to work at all whether or not. But Sean, he loves movies. He loves a certain time. He is. He is. What's the rest of the presentation showed us? We're going to I mean, that is my takeaway having looked at the slate. But in that moment, when they were in that short film, which is hokey and is really try hard. Listen, I've seen weirdly sincere too. It seemed like it was both things at the same time. And I like visiting the Paramount lot. Like I'm a movie nerd and I really hope he doesn't put condos on it. Okay? Like let's keep making movies. But it was an advertisement. And to distract from the fact that the rest of the movies, everything they have going is just the testosterone. And they also showed it the same day at their TV up front presentation that they were doing in LA the same day. So it's designed as a propaganda high video for the company. And you need to get behind us. Don't look over there with Barry Weiss's CBS. Look at the legacy of this 100 year old studio. And we are now good shepherds. Yeah. I understand that intention. I think if you put Tom Cruise on a water tower, like I'm going to pay attention to that. That's just something I like. Is the barefoot, the bare feet implication that he climbed up it with and couldn't wear shoes while clever. He just didn't want to have shoes on top of the water tower. I think it was more than he was just getting comfortable. Okay. Alright. Yeah. That's it's home now. Yeah. For Tom Cruise's top the water tower. The thing is is when you look when you drill down on the slate, it looks like the sky dance slate. It looks it looks like a lot of very male and special forces masculine, a very like kind of narrow definition. And so when a man and I were walking out after the paramount adaptation and we were like, is this really like a little like a keyhole into what 28% of Hollywood movie will be? Well, the sky dance had Dana Goldberg is now running the studio with Josh Greenstein at Paramount. So you kind of got to look at the track record and what they're going to do. And this slate to me was very skydancy. Very even though they would say that their their movies have not yet started to come out. They have a Timothy Shalame movie with James Mangold that is that they didn't show they have a bunch of projects. They have the Call of Duty movie with Pete Berg that that they kind of tease with video game footage. But they're looking for franchise oriented films and they will find them wherever they can. And right now they're finding them in Jackass and Paw Patrol and Ninja Turtles and these like B and C level franchise. Angry Birds. I mean, Sonic is a huge franchise, but Sonic the Hedgehog street the new Street Fighter film like a lot of stuff that seems like, you know, it has potential box office power, but feels a little chinsy at the same time. I mean, they did announce new Star Trek movie and development, new Transformers movie and development, new World War Z movie and development and confirmed Top Gun 3 and development. Those are huge brands. They have to be taken care of. It's very easy to fuck up a Star Wars movie. They already fucked up one World War Z movie. It's called World War Z. Like this is very possible to do. Well, in Ellison and Skydance, they had Terminator right and it didn't work. It didn't work. So it's not just having this IP or reigniting this old IP. It's a finding it's making sure that you have teams of people and creatives attached to it. Star Trek relaunched that work because JJ and the people who wrote those movies, they got it. They found a way to reinvent it and make it work. It doesn't it's not happening anymore. So they're going to have to find somebody who bought who buys in. Can this administration do that? I don't know. Amanda, what did you think of Johnny Depp? That was my. Came out for the Ebony's movie. Yes, that was my what the fuck moment. And it was it was truly grim. And you and I, Sean and I turned to each other being like, wait, Johnny Depp is really here. And then I will say he got a standing ovation from the people. Yeah. I know. But it was bigger pop in the rock, bigger pop in Timothy, Shalame. Yeah. He got the most sincere like, oh my God, he's here. Well, maybe because they thought he was going to keel over it. But you know, but Johnny Depp in the flesh sort of, but it's also not really with us in spirit in the room. Sure. Introducing Ebony's are directed by Ty West was just a confirmation of what's going on at Paramount and of the industry at large, which is what franchise can we put a story everyone can be reanimated. We can take this for free and do it. Yeah. Let's do it. He spoke very lovingly about Alistair Sims performance in the film from the 30s. And then he loves that. And that was the only thing he said that I was like, this seems like it's coming from a person. Everything else was just a lot of bromides and weird sarcastic. Yes. But that's an interesting, that's an interesting gamble that movie to me because Ty West is an innovative studio movie like that before. It's, it is IP that everybody knows Johnny Depp is still a big star to many people who, you know, don't care about what's been going on in his personal life over the last 10 or 15 years. But also it's like it just looked like a Christmas Carol. Like it didn't really look like anything different than what it is. Why does it exist? Right. Yeah. So I don't know. Yeah. And there's a couple of those in the Paramount presentation where you had to ask yourself why it exists. Like another Jackass, which where they look old. I know. Yeah. Thank you. Most of my boys love that. You do. Okay. The maybe wrong. You're interested in seeing one of them with a robot giving them a proctology. I am 100%. Yeah. A thousand percent. But I mean, just a generational thing. But it did make me feel old when watching that. So I do understand what you're saying. Well, they're pitching that movie as best as last. Yeah. Like that. This is the end for them. That they won't be doing anymore. You know, they could have the money. It comes out. But you know, I know. But they say that all the time. But whatever. I don't believe anyone when they say it's a scary movie. Stuff was fun. Yeah. I think I'm a movie movie. Yeah. It just felt it felt B level Paramount needs to get back to where the franchise stuff feels A level and they're not. It's just going to take two to three years for them to really get Star Trek going and you know, stuff like that that that is going to make them feel on the same level as all these other studios. All right. So those are our rankings. Just to finish this up, we're going to do our biggest WTF moment, which a man had just revealed. Yeah. We're gonna do our most pleasant surprise and then we're going what is this best audience prop? Oh, the best gift thing we got. Okay. All right, we'll do that. So let's do you what's your biggest WTF moment? Well, I find all the awards to be quite strange, but I did think Steven Spielberg getting the America 250 award for the MPAA. It was quite odd. It was like last year where they brought out Kevin Costner and gave him a surprise award. That was last year, right? I used to go over the horizon. Yeah, and it's like Kevin Costner knows exactly what's going on. And he literally was like, and then he had some fake tears. Yeah, you know, there was a cool conversation between Coleman, Domingo and Steven Spielberg. We got to see new footage of this college your day. I think all of that was good for him. I just think watching Charlie Rivkin talk for five minutes before handing something to Steven Spielberg was just like, we don't need to do you know, is this helping the theater owners? Is it helping the press? Like what is it really doing other than just shining on someone who like everyone agrees is one of is one of the 10 most important people in the history of movies? Yeah, like we know it's good. We don't need to do that. So that was a WTF for me. Also, what is it? What 250 years of America and Rivkin was like, well, that's half the time there have been movies. I know. I guess they're doing a whole thing at the MPAA. They're trying to get in on it to like win public opinion. I mean, movies nobody nobody is more vocal about how awesome movie theaters are than I am. So I understand I'm on their side. I'm just like that was a waste of our time. Yeah, that stuff doesn't bother me because this is all promotional. Yeah. Yeah, but it is when we're sitting through it. Like yeah, that's I could have been having a cocktail. Yeah, I we sort of stepped on my WTF moment because it was Milly Alcott like all of that. Yeah, I was going on and I kept going. I know that was bad. It was durational, but but she wasn't alone. I don't want to just pick on her. There were a number of stars that were there in like you said physically. But like didn't quite know what was going on or what they were supposed to be doing. Yeah. And that's okay. I guess, you know, it's what makes fun. But the DC keeps doing it year after year. It's very easy. We know you know better. Yeah. We know you are a charismatic guy. But it's just they spend so much time prepping everything else. You can give her one specific scene. It's unforgivable. It's a lot of politics going to be all the people who didn't proper. Like Chris Melodonry probably wants to tell us the plot of minions and monsters. Right. There are probably people backstage that know better. Yeah. But are they going to tell them? It's not worth it. That one. I was like, all right, I'm good here. But at least I felt his enthusiasm. He was like, I'm super proud of this. And then he brought out the guy who's the voice of the minions. And also the film. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So whatever. It's fine. At least that movie makes money. Yeah. You know, like for some of these smaller ones, like, okay, we don't need enough. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, most pleasant surprise. Other mommy. Other mommy. So the Jessica Chastain horror film. Yes. Uh, Blumhouse. And we were talking about this movie at the party afterward. And I would love to see the focus group report or the internal debate over naming this movie. And I know this goes on a lot of horror movies in particular. What the most effective name is. Other mommy is just hall of fame all time. It's classic. Yeah. Instantly the best. I am. I have never made a meme in my life. I would like to make a TikTok meme about other mommy right now. I understood it. I connected with it. I will. You unpaid marketing for it. Like it is an evil mom. Who is the other mommy? Exactly. There's an other mommy within me. There are other mommies out there in the world. I get it. I want to explain to my own mother. Like what other mommy means? This movie I really hope it is successful. Yeah. Because I want this to be rewarding. It's good material. Whoever came up with it needs a raise, a bonus, whatever. Okay. So we agree on that one. And also like I like the banter between Sandra Bullock and Nicole Kidman. That was like reassuring that the 90s are alive and well. Yeah. They're both doing great. Seemed authentic. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know if they like each other or not. They seem like they're a good time. They kind of have sold it. It was more than enough. I was also pleasantly surprised by Whalefall. I thought that that was seemed like genuinely interesting. But that's like, while I'm talking, I'm talking like moments in the room. You know, I mean Snoop Dogg and Donna Langley having chemistry was exciting. Yeah. That was fun. I enjoyed that. I've seen that before at parties. Is that a surprise to you though? Well Snoop is just he watching him here. So I thought of I was like, you know who he is now? He's like Bob Hope or like Johnny Carson. Dolly Martin or Dolly Parton. Where he's just like comfortable in any room. He's transcendent. He's always himself. And the reaction when he came out, like there were like 65 year old white men who probably have not listened to a lot of Snoop music who'd love him. Yeah, it's great. I mean, he is really entered a very rare item of American celebrity. I know. Do you think his movie will be good? What's Craig Brewer who I really like? You know, so I hope so. Yeah, Donna and Snoop are friendly. They he came to their Oscar party for the wicked year. And clearly they. And he has a he has a big deal at NBC Universal in general because he did the voice and they were doing an anime show with him. Right. And then they're doing this biopic. So he has like a big overall deal with them. They believe they're in the Snoop business as they like me. I mean, I just as a die hard. Rab fan my whole life and remembering when Snoop hit in the early 90s and fall. This this feels like the one and a million outcome of his career. Yeah, like based on where he has gotten. And that's why he's the rare case where I'm like biopic kind of justified. Like has had a crazy life. Yeah. And so I'm looking forward to that. Yeah, interesting what they include and don't include in that. Yeah. Okay. I mean, he was murder was the case is literally one of his first most known songs. So I know he did he made like a one eight seven on an undercover cop joke in front of the theater owners. That's his breakthrough song. I know. I'm loving it to the fucking movie theater. I know. I don't think he was being on the. Yeah, exactly. All right, best audience prop and then we got to go. Gotta be the sword. The sword. Yeah, the sword was the only one I'm not wearing a thing one or thing to wig. No, that was bad. And they wanted everyone to wear it in there. I'm not doing that. I did bring the Odyssey beer coosie home. Oh, that was a thing. Yeah. Oh, I didn't see that. Yeah, yeah, with drink tickets and. There was a minions coosie as well. I didn't know that. Yeah, there was. Oh, no. I missed that. Okay. And then otherwise like there weren't a lot of big props to see the sword is probably best, but I'm not taking that out of the plane. I should get arrested. I drove. Yeah, that's why I drove. I knew there might be a sword in play. All right, well, we had a lovely time. We also went to the sphere. We did. And you guys saw Wizard of Oz for the first time, which you can hear thoughts on the big picture. But thank you guys. Thank you for having us. Thank you for like indulging and sitting next to me. You guys were like, we had a great time. It was so fun. Matt, one other flex from that I liked from from this week was when we sat down. And usually there are there were plastic to Sony water bottles next to us for every presentation. And I sit down and I'm like, oh, weird. They switched to aluminum bottles. And Matt goes, that means James Cameron is near. And you were right. He was. He was. Billy. I wish you'd know. Cameron came out. You cannot have plastic bottles in a auditorium that Jim Cameron is in. You know what? Good for big to him. He flexes how he wants that movie. Does that movie need the 3D? I don't know, but that's also clearly the only reason that he wanted to do it. When so he's friends. I asked about this. He's friends with Billy Eilish's mom through like organic farming and things that their his life is. Same. That's great. And then he just talked a lot about the little cameras they made. You know, like the science experiment for Jim Cameron. It's just Billy Eilish is an odd choice for this kind of project. She has a huge audience. I understand it from that perspective, but I've always been a little dubious of this movie. And I can't say I was swayed after seeing what we saw. Right. Okay. All right. We got one last shot in there. So thank you guys for coming. Okay, that's the show for today. Want to thank my guest Sean Finnecy and Amanda Dobbins. You can check out their podcast, the big picture on the Ringer podcast network. Want to thank producer Craig Horlback. All right. It's our John Jones. I don't want to thank you. We will see you next week.