Nobody Has It Figured Out: Lessons From 16 Years in GTM | Michael Tarrant

Hi guys, I'm Dan at Hanvedi and this is something to consider. Food is interesting because people often talk about it as culture, tradition, even lifestyle. But the older I get, the more I realize food is also memory, its identity, its grief, its migration. It's the story's families carry quietly across generations without ever formally documenting them. And in a world where everything feels increasingly fast, optimized and performative, there's something deeply human about people who still approach food with care, slowness, and emotional honesty. Today's guest is someone who is built an entire world around that idea. Zahrabullah is the founder of Cooking with Zahra, a platform that has become known not just for recipes, but for storytelling through food. Over the years, she has expanded that world beyond content into products, production, and building a larger ecosystem around the way food is experienced, shared, and remembered. Through her work, she's documented regional dishes, family traditions, and the emotional connection so many people in the region and the diaspora communities have with the act of cooking itself. What interests me about this conversation isn't simply what recipes or content creation she does. It's what happens when food becomes language, when recipes become archives, and when the kitchen becomes one of the last spaces where identity still gets passed down slowly, intentionally, and by hand. So today we're talking about memory, culture, nostalgia, motherhood, creativity, building a business around trust, and what food reveals about who we are becoming. Zahra, welcome to the show and thank you for being here. Thank you. I'm so excited to be here. Oh my God. It's such a pleasure. And I'm so grateful that you're here because I have to tell you something. I didn't mention it before, but you have to know. So I in September will officially be marking my four-year milestone of moving to the UAE. And on my vision board in 2022, Zahra Abdullah was on my vision board because I was in love with what you created. I started following you. You were one of those accounts that didn't just inspire, I love cooking. And especially during COVID, my little secret fantasy was to just become a content creator and cook. That's what I wanted to do. That was my fantasy. And I loved it. And what I loved about your account, read it into your from the region and you carry so much heritage and understanding. And there's so much nuance to what you do, but you didn't in a way that was so, it would be, it would be small to call it just aesthetic. You did something that I connected to. You were on my vision board hardcore. And I remember messaging a very dear friend of mine saying, I want not just a page like this, I want a life like this because it's so beautiful what you created. Thank you. So it's a full circle moment for me. Oh my God. You know, when the days are hard and you're questioning why you're doing what you're doing, feedback like this just really is, it's things that I need to, oh, you really got me there. I wasn't expecting that. But thank you, I appreciate that. That into you're an incredibly beautiful person. I remember speaking to you for the first time. And I think one of the things that really stood out, although you're an incredibly accomplished woman, not just with your platform and the community that you've built over the years, but also as a business woman. And I met you at a time where you were scaling your own company in a variety of different ways. And I remember talking to you and being so impressed at how humble you were. Like it was, it was just so refreshing, especially in a world where entrepreneurship is one of those over glorified things where everyone almost feels like they have to hide the realities of what it takes to be an entrepreneur. And I've actively tried to kind of break that barrier in my conversations on this podcast. So yeah, that was my first impression of you. Thank you. I appreciate that. Oh my God. You got you, you really started it up with a very emotional. Okay, so we'll take a step back. We'll take a step back and give us a chance or give my audience a chance to get to know you. What can you tell us about the context of your life to set the stage for this conversation? I am your sister. I am your friend. I am the person you come to to talk to in layman's term. I'm the girl next door. And I get very embarrassed when someone comes to me because I'll be walking in the mall and there'll be somebody and she gives me a smile and I'm like, I know I don't know her, but I'm going to you, you, you, you, people feel so connected. And so I always try to remember to say to acknowledge that connection and take time to just say hello because it's still weird for someone to feel connected to some, you know, social media has created the space where it's just a weird space. But I've become part of people's lives and I just don't realize how much and I just, I don't think I can ever really fully understand it. So I'm very humbled by it because I'm someone that's, you know, I still see myself as that 21-year-old or 24-year-old that moved to Dubai, you know, with two suitcases. I just finished my schooling. I grew up in Canada. I did my undergrad and I did my masters and I came here with a dream, ambition. And initially, I thought I was only going to confer six months, get a life experience and then go up to law school. But then life, life happened. And I'm one of those people that's very, I'm proud to say I have a lot of grit, a lot of resilience and sometimes things don't go my way, but I carve my way. And that's something that I can proudly say with absolute humility in the same time. But because I know I come from, when I say humble beginnings, humble beginnings in the sense that I really started and built myself from, from the ground up. And so that humility, I'm grateful for. I wasn't handed anything. I worked hard to build whatever I have. And so I always, I'm in that state of that, that 24-year-old girl, the one that started from nothing, in essence. Okay, there's so much to unpack there because even in terms of the way that you talk about building from the ground up, you, you're very soft spoken. And the way that you talk about it is, is, I mean, I think you're the first person to come on here. And when I ask that question, you didn't start with what your brand is as an entrepreneur and what your business is, which, which I think says a lot about you. I'd like to take a step back before we get into you landing in Dubai. You were going to go to law school. Why, what did you study in school? So I wanted to, my dream was to become the Malkluni persona. Wow. I wanted to go and study law and work as a human rights lawyer. I wrote the LSAT so many times. Wow. And I did miserably in the every single time. Oh, my lord. I did get when I was, when I was 19 or 18 years old or 19 years old, when I had graduated high school, I did get accepted to law school in Southampton. Not sure. And my parents said, no. Interesting. Why? They're like, we immigrated all the way to Canada, so we can give you the best life. And so we can all be together. And now you want to pack up and leave us. I don't think so. So I had to suck it up. And I ended up going to an amazing university. I went to University of British Columbia in Vancouver. And I don't know if you've ever been to Vancouver or to UBC, but that campus is just incredible. So I was very privileged. I had a wonderful academic journey. And then I went to Ontario and I studied and I did my master's at the University of Windsor, which is an extreme opposite of beautiful, but beautiful friendships were made and beautiful experiences. And I wanted to have a serious life. And I thought following a degree in law would give me that seriousness. I wanted to have impact. I wanted to be a service. And I thought studying law would be that, especially human rights law. Interesting. Yeah, that makes sense in terms of what would drive you. So, okay, so how did you end up in Dubai? So I'm half the Iranian half Sudanese. And we left Sudan in 91. And before we immigrated to Canada, we stopped over in Dubai. Okay, so you got a chance to see it. Yeah, we stopped over. We had family here. We said hello. And I always remembered that there's something about the energy of the space that I love. And when I graduated university, I missed the Arab culture. I missed the Azan. I missed the community. I missed the nostalgic elements of my childhood, which I felt I lacked living in Canada. And so the first opportunity I had to move here, I jumped on the plane and I was was a proud person. So I did all these things on my own. So I told my parents, I love you. I'm going to leave you straight out of college. Wow. I packed my bags and a lot of people don't know this, but to the extent of how proud I was, the only thing I had was enough money to rent an apartment. I actually rented a room from a shared like a couple's house. I rented a car, which I was grateful I could pay the rent's payment at the end of the month. So after my first salary payment. Wow. And I had enough money just to eat. Talk about humbling. And I was so happy. I was so happy. I made friends. I connected. I and so I just, I just hustled my way like that's the real world. I hustled my way through. And the only thing that I had my secret weapon was my education. My degree under my hand. That was my key through doors. And then I just built them there. Wow. That's a great. So you met your husband here. You had your kids here. You literally built the entirety of your life here. Yeah. When I say Dubai is home, it's not an understatement. Dubai is my home. Dubai is where I built my dreams. Dubai is where I was able to do things my way. You know, one of the most emotional moments for me was when Dubai culture reached out to me and said we want to give you a golden visa. Wow. That was a moment where I felt I was I was I didn't have to ask Dubai to be here anymore. There was saying we want you to be part of us. And so this this person who felt like I don't know if if if I can truly express this feeling of being wanted or that feeling of worth by a government entity is like a big deal for me. So that makes sense. You know, it's one of those things I don't think I will ever take for granted because I think it's it's it's such a privilege to be in a place that has created an ecosystem and an environment where they chose you just like you've chosen them. And you don't find that anywhere in the world with all of your respect to everywhere else. But even when I was living in the States, I never felt like I was wanted or could ever be there if it wasn't for you know what I was you know what what I was legally bound to being there for. So it truly is a privilege. It's one of those I think underrated or unspoken things about the privilege of being in a place like the UAE. And the privilege of growing up with the city. I mean when I moved here it was quite a young city. Today how old is Dubai UAE 50-something years old? So it was a 30-year-old baby. I remember myself at 30. I was still figuring it out. I mean Dubai was young. Dubai was young and it's evolved so much in the last 22 years. I've been 22 years now in Dubai. So it's evolved so much and what a privilege to watch it grow and what a much even greater privilege to also grow alongside it. And so for me that's why I feel so connected to the city. I love that. So you're connected to the city. You found a new home. You met a man. You fell in love and you started a family. What drew you into the space of wanting to start documenting cooking? Like are you naturally a cook? Is it something innate? Like why like what brought you there? So I've always called myself a feeder. Okay. Never a cook or a chef. Okay. And when I was in university I used to always invite all my international student friends over to my house and my mom and my grandmother and I would prepare a dinner. And it would be all traditional Persian dishes that all my Persian international school friends grew up with. And so they'd be so excited to have cornice absie or fessanjoon or or whatever that was these nostalgic home cooked meals. Because for me those experiences were equated to love. And what greatest act of love or act of service is then taking time out of your schedule to make something for somebody. And that gratitude when you fed somebody is even just the biggest gift. Like my husband recently started to dabble in the kitchen and he's loving it because the ooh and oh thank you you can see that excites him and he's like back at more you know back in and trying to do more things. And by the way he's become an amazing pastry chef. His paint pies are out of this world better than mine. Really? Wow. I'm happy to validate that if you ever want to bite me over. Okay talk to me about your since this is something that stems from something you used to do. Talk to me about your earliest memory of food. Even if it was just kind of a feeling not necessarily a dish. So I've had a lot of time to reflect about my journey and why I stumbled onto food and why I've come to where I come where I've come today. When it comes to nostalgic memories I grew up in Sudan and I remember there was an apricot tree in my grandmother's house or villa I should say in carriage. And so it was this beautiful villa and I remember these two massive brown gates a long driveway and on the right and left side of the driver were all these fruit trees. And we spent so many beautiful childhood memories climbing those trees, picking the fruits, sitting by the pond and just enjoying the the sun and you know these memories that you imagine and cook I mean in novels and books about the romanticization of the childhood innocence. I I live that. Wow. I live that and and so whenever I think of love I think of my grandfather and my grandmother I think of the apricot tree. I think of my grandmother greeting me with my favorite dish and that's love. And for me that's my way of giving a love. Oh, you got me, you got me. You're getting emotional. I'm getting emotional with you. It's okay. It's okay. We love to cry. I look, listen, ever since starting this podcast I've embraced crying. So like go for it. I'm here for it. It's okay. Oh my God. And so for me being that immigrant child who had to deal with so many challenges food is love. And that's why I do the same thing. I have beautiful memories of my childhood my childhood in Sudan, read and read lunches and and you know everybody like hanging out together love was always around food. It was the dinner table. It was the welcome drink or the welcome gift or it was always around food. And so when I got married I was the first and my friends to get married and the first to have kids. And I decided that I wanted to be a stay at home mom but I was a terrible stay at home. Why what makes you a terrible stay at home mom? I just always wanted to create. Okay. And you know I came up with so many different business ideas. My first business idea was a concept called cook and oaks. Okay. And cook and oaks was supposed to be this educational kids play area. Cook was a very inquisitive bird and nooks are these little spaces that kids would go and read and learn. And so I wanted that. But then that was that was an idea that we had to shelf. And then I started another business idea with my sister called Mushi. And Mushi in Farsi when you want to say oh my god you're such a mushi. You're like you're so cute. Mushi is like a little mouse. Yeah. So Mushi was like like the adverb of someone super cute. And it was cute little party party idea. Like party items. Yeah. So we would do these themed birthday kids. And they were kids that you would buy and you could you know plan your own kids birthday parties at home. Anyways that then last one. So we closed that. And then I just stumbled onto blogging and actual like old school blogging like not even a website. You just write things. No. So no. I started a big what was it called blogs net or a blog spot. Yeah. Blog spot. Blog spot. So I started blog spot. Very basic elementary. And it was basically a recipe index for friends. And then I was active in it. And then I had my third child. And then I got I had a personal health issue. So then I stopped blogging for a while. And food and blogging kind of brought me back to life. It brought me back into feeling like myself and sense of self. So I always say this food space is my artistry. It's my therapy and it's my way of of connecting people because it really, at different points of my life, served all three different elements and so it became a wild life of its own and I remember when I so basically I had cancer when I was pregnant with my third child and it was a very hard period for me and I didn't know how to mourn that journey and I was always I'm strong I'm strong I'm strong whatever but I ended up being very angry after I had recovered and my friend I remember I contacted her and I said her Helen I need your help I see you doing all these amazing things and I want to be like you're climbing Mancliman Jaro you're winning these amazing awards you are a successful business woman you're my hero I love what you've done and so she meets me and gives me this book she says the Jack can feel the principles of success okay I'll read that you have to read it twice okay I'll read it twice so the first time you read it the second time you highlight it and take notes and action every question that asks you to do that book basically allowed me to start dreaming again and so then I did my little five-year strategy and I built this ultimate list of everything that I wanted to achieve and Donna I've achieved them all so now today I'm in a position where I'm like I need to dream bigger wow but it's scary to dream bigger because that means you can do I mean basically I'm afraid of actually fulfilling what I want to do but now it's like I can do it build the courage so I'm at a pivotal moment so the tears that are happening now so casually and so it's because I've been doing a lot of reflecting lately and so everything's still very raw and honey if you start watching this podcast from episode one trust me I knew I know exactly what you're going through like and I documented it on a podcast for the world to hear so bless I get it I'm here for it I commend you for it but I think also what's interesting because listen I yes maybe recipes it may have been the strategy and social media may have been the channel along with actual you know money revenue generating products like the frozen food etc etc but I don't want to take away from how you did it the way that you tell stories is significantly different than anyone else out there and I think that's a big part of what has given people people like me kind of the that feeling that you look for when you when you have this will to connect or want to connect with someone so I'm curious about this where did this come from because you're very intentional you're very slow you're not about just here's the recipe it's yum cute so good look in the cat that's not what you do you're very intentional and very different your voiceovers are considered you're talking to us about culture you've taught me things about Persian food that I didn't know about and I thought I was a fan of it but where does that come from is that just the something you were taught I think maybe especially now the world the way it is today are region how we are defined it's so again I don't think I did it consciously but when I sit and reflect I realized ah there is a subconscious there's a subconscious discussion that I want to talk about if you look at the videos they're in a modern aesthetic not typically Middle Eastern it's intentional because I am I am not the other what does that mean I am not the other meaning growing up in North America I felt this is my experience it may not be a reality but this is the experience that I felt I was the other I remember going for a birthday and my my friend trying to teach me how to eat pasta with a spoon spoon and a fork and I looked at her I'm like we know how to eat pasta with a spoon and a fork I don't need you know because I was the other maybe I wasn't sophisticated or civilized enough to know how to do it I'm not the other in the sense that okay have you ever read Edward Sarah's book Orientalism yes of course it's it's that other we are of a people because they are not acceptable to the majority yes yeah so we're not backward we're not unchanging we're not we're not people who are stuck in a time yeah yeah so that so interesting so really that was kind of the story you were trying to tell was a lot bigger than just cooking it was really representation yeah and and giving kind of our side of the world a bit more visibility but in a way that's palpable and maybe someone might be a fan why do you need to be palpable for someone else I'm palpable because in the end of the day whether we like it or not we all are prejudiced and we all have moments of racist and that is usually rooted to fear the the the concept of the other is rooted to this idea that they're not familiar they're not similar so I can't relate to them so they're the other so you have to make it palpable because I am I am mainstream I am mainstream we are here we are here to stay and so if my white clean marble kitchen with that sage green aesthetic is going to make it more aesthetic for you to see it or catch your attention than great but you'll hear my Persian music you'll see my Persian flavors or my Arabic flavors you'll hear my my traditional raw essence and you want to be part of it because it's not afraid it's not distant enough because that kitchen aesthetic makes it inviting inviting and neutral and then there's a curiosity with everything else and it's really sweet because the feedback I get is from people who are not Middle Eastern who are loving that they're learning about the food or you've got the ones who have been a part of diaspora their whole life and you know the last time they had a traditional dish was when the grandma passed away and you know they come from a mixed cultural marriage and maybe they're the mother who is of the ethnic origin that they belong to passed away and they have a father that is not from the culture but they missed the essence of it yeah so the yearning for it yeah and so it comes down to this is the other big it's this identity of worth food is a way of reminding you that you are greater than that moment in itself because the recipes that we have don't belong to just five minutes ago they are generations old and they've survived so many generations and we are here to stay you know and we are going to evolve and we're going to be present and we're gonna be proud and and and it's important for us and as a mother it's important for me to gently I don't like forcing things down throat and so for me if I can do it in a way by passing and if it resonates then great and if it doesn't then it moves along but today my kids know although they've never been to Iran my kids know Iranian food they know they'll never they'll never remember the memories of us going down and having picnics by the river and climbing on to my grandmother's a little farmhouse and picking toots you know mulberries or or grabbing a plate of a salt shaker in the back of your pocket and climbing up the sour cherry tree and picking the cherries and shaking the salt you know that childish innocence they'll never get to experience it but they'll maybe experience it through the food and so they know they come from something they know that they belong and and this identity of food during my the weakest moments when we were first when we first moved to Canada when we were kind of the other it was food that reminded me no no we are we are tribal we are strong we come from generations of culture and history and so this is why I love food wow well I mean that was beautiful that was incredibly beautiful and it's interesting because you said something very very key that I want to circle back to yes there's a broader audience that maybe misunderstand what it means to represent yourself as an Arab or as a Persian or anyone from the global south everywhere but a large portion of who you were connecting to was the diaspora community or or the community that feel that there's a distance and a disconnect between something they yearn for that they may not completely understand and and who they are and there's something very powerful there because I feel like that's a community one that is worth investing in and that's a almost a forgotten community in many ways because This is also a community that's othered where they're from. We live in a world that's very attached to this idea of black and white mindsets of, you can only-- you have to choose, OK? When in reality, the beauty of everything that we are sits in the gray, even when I think about the relationships between Africa, the Arab regions, the North African regions, the Persian regions, the Turkish region, there's so much shared culture and experiences that have made its way into our food, have made its way into our culture that has been exchanged between us. There's a tapestry to be explored. And I think that's what makes food so incredible is that it welcomes everyone. There is no filtering system. There's no qualification. It's for everyone, which is powerful. You know, you said something. And I have so many thoughts that are just coming into my head. I think about dumplings, for example, and how it's been a journey. They originate in China. The silk roads, taken them. Then you go to Uzbekistan and they have a month, too. Then you have the Afghanis who have another version of it. Then you go down to Turkey. You go to the Arab world, the Shishbara. You've got the Manti in them. And then all the way to Italy, it's the Ravioli. These are-- this is so incredible how this one recipe has evolved so much. When I translate this to life, it's so easy for people to be judgmental and want you to be a certain way. But that's not life. We are fluid humans. We are fluid in experience. And when you're able to see how a Ravioli can change and be still part of something so culturally profound, then you can also change. And so when you start to realize that you can be so many different versions and it's OK, you start having grace for yourself. And so for me, this is what this blog has been for me. It's been a journey of self-discovery. It's a journey of self-worth, of self-value. And it's been a challenging one, because I've had to question a lot of things about how I see things, how I view things. Like a funny story, right? We were doing the cookbook. And we did a simple beetroot salad. And my food stylist who is English. She-- sorry, my photographer who is English-- both of them are English, actually. But so Rindi, she took a bit of the beetroot sauce, which was red. And I had a napkin. And she just casually blotted a drop of the sauce onto the napkin. And I was ready to-- and I looked at her and I'm like, are you OK, mate? That's dirty. It's not perfect. We cannot, we cannot, we cannot put a picture like that. That's going to-- there's so many conversations. Yeah. And she looked at me like I was lost the plot to the XR. It's not a big deal. It's natural when you serve. You could naturally serve and have a drop. And we want to have a natural aesthetic. And I just said, OK, but we're not putting the red dots. I will take what you've said. And I had to sleep on it when I realized, oh my god. This is why a lot of people don't go into the kitchen, because there is such a demand of perfection in how we act and how we prepare and how we serve and how we live that we get crippled. And so that little drop of beetroot sauce like an onion, you peel layers, help me peel a layer of judgment or a cultural view that it doesn't resonate anymore. It doesn't. That's so interesting as a story. You're reminding me of something. If you come to my kitchen now, because I love cooking, I'm the person that has all the matching containers and the printed labels and everything's uniform and pretty in whatever best ally at home when I think about my grandmothers, their kitchen looked nothing like that. Their kitchen was recycled jars and Tupperware and things fermenting in the corners of the kitchen. And even the way that she looked, and that was my happy place. Like I don't even want to call it messy. It was just so real and it was honest. And that's what enticed me. I wonder why we've become so attached to this idea of perfection, because to your point, which I actually agree with, this performative perfection is a barrier for a lot of people to even get involved in the cooking process, which is actually quite beautiful. Yes, 100%. Yeah, beautiful and communal. It's brings people together in a very interesting way. I feel like through my blog, I've been able to shed a lot or peel the onion. The metaphorical onion. The metaphor. I've been able to peel layers that don't no longer serve me. And what's really interesting is that I've been doing this since 2010, so it's about 12 years. And I've come to a place where-- I don't know if I want to continue doing this anymore, or if I want to change or maybe add a layer. But I've come to a point where I have an itch. And I feel like this blog served me. But the reason why I don't want to close it is because it's still serving others. And that's always been about being of service to others. And so I feel like I still need to continue it. But then I also need to do something for myself, which is where I'm like, what is the next thing? You want to get creative, you want to build. It's interesting, because also as an entrepreneur, I think the rhetoric is always tied to this idea of build and scale in a massive way. That's what an entrepreneurial journey should look like. But in reality, what I've learned, not just from my own experience, but also from my conversations, is that entrepreneurship is very cyclical, because it's very tied to the journey of the creator itself. And as any human-- if you talked about the ravioli, but any human, we evolve over time. It's actually putting an unrealistic pressure on ourselves when we make it seem like we have to be attached to one thing for the majority of our lives. Your business is not your child. So you are not committed to have it for the rest of your life if it doesn't serve you as you grow and evolve. And I think that's also the case for content creators. I always see this with influencers where they're not given enough grace when they want to change. They no longer want to do what they want to do. They want to pivot. They want to-- and then so what? Like, why is that such a big deal? They are human, just like you and me, and we all change. I think, as I sit here and I think about it, my journey was, I think, as a result of my children. The cooking was because I wanted to-- not only nourish and nurture, but I wanted to feed their souls. I wanted them to feel like they belonged. Because in the end of the day, they come from very mixed backgrounds. And where's your husband from? So my husband's Palestinian Jordanian. So and I'm Iranian Sudanese. The only place they know out of these identities is Jordan. And it's really funny because I've been feeding them so much Persian food. But if you ask them what their favorite dishes is the only dish I don't know how to make. Menza? Yes. And my husband loves that. He's like, yes, a score. Hardcore Jordanian. Like, I even made musakhon, which I think I make, and I kick ass musakhon, but they love menza. The one dish I don't know how to make. But I know they're going to miss my food when they move on. But that's amazing how they have connection. Exactly. It's amazing how they have connection, which leads me to another question of, why do you think food becomes something very emotionally charged? It's a very emotionally charged subject, especially when we're not living in, let's say, our ethnic community or the place where we were originally born. Why is it? Like, even me and you were talking about it. And the minute you start talking about food and memories and nostalgia, all I think about-- it makes me emotional right now. All I think about is my grandmother or my aunt. And before I would leave for my trips, how they would want to make sure that. So I think there's two things that all of us need. And I don't remember where I read it. As adults and even with our children, we need two things. We need to feel seen. And we need to feel heard. And because those are two feelings of love and food. Does that? Because you are seen because you feel connected. You feel like you belong. You feel like you're not an outsider. You're not the other. You come from a group of people that share the same value system. I mean, you grew up in the States. I remember this one story. I never grew up with Zatar. But I loved Zatar. I remember tasting it somewhere. And I went-- there was Iraqi friends of ours who had this show in my shop. And I would go to-- their house, go to their shop. I'm like, "Do you guys have Zata?" They're like, "No." I said, "I swear once you sold like a minute a year or something, that I just wanted that connection." Because for me, in living in Vancouver, where there was a lot of Asian influence, I craved that Middle Eastern flavor. Because that was rooted. That was connection. I don't know if the answer the question for you, but I felt seen, I felt like I belonged, I felt connected. Yeah. It's interesting because also when I think about social media and I'm not referring to the aesthetic of your feed, but I'm thinking about what beauty and aesthetic looks like now and what this modern world moves toward or has a tendency to move toward. And it's a palette that is very light. It goes together. It feels simple. It feels minimalistic. It feels clean. Yet when we talk about yearning and what we crave and what we love and what we're in the mood for and what gives us a kick, it's always, it's spicy. It's colorful. It's complex. It's messy. It's so much more than that. I feel like there's a weird tension between these two opposing worlds. I think it also comes to you go to different places for different things. You come to my page for a hug. Do you know what I mean? Your page is a hug. That's it. You come by a page for that loving, you know, like, you know, I think when I think about hugs, I think my grandmother and her. She was a she was a chubbier lady and I still have just sitting in her bosom because it was just the christianiest place. That was the hug. But sometimes you want space, sometimes you want sizzle, sometimes you want excitement and adventure. And I think that's what's beautiful about the social media space because everybody brings in something different. And at different points of your life, you need, like, you know, during when the war was happening, I saw the engagement skyrocket because people just wanted the hug. Yeah. You know, but when life is normal, my engagement goes down because people are looking for the sizzle and the heat and the excitement. And and and that's that's okay as well. In COVID, I was like the amount of engagement I had during COVID was intense. My grandmother was staying with me at the time. People wanted a hug. And so there was a visual, there was the emotional, there was aesthetic, there was there was a story. There was a story. Exactly. But Zara, how do you maintain authenticity in something like this? Because again, it's very easy to fall into the trap of being very performative. What do you think makes what you do more authentic? I have to tell you something today, one of my biggest struggles is challenging myself with that question. Because I do believe for a very long time, I was doing everything authentically. And then I think the last year or two, it started to not feel authentic, which is why maybe you may notice that the content isn't as much as it used to be. And because I'm going through this question of my why, why am I doing this? Why did I start this? It's served my wife for the very long, for a very, very, very long time. And yes, there's also a joy in being of service to others. There's a beautiful, there's a beautiful, you know, to be a satisfying, you know, people there. Yeah, people, people started to stop being that we've adopted this me mentality versus the community mentality, where you contribute. Yeah. And to a certain extent, I don't judge it because I think everyone needs to at some point, self-serve, it's like, you know, you need to put your mask on first before you can take care of everybody else. So I feel like there's different moments. But today, I'm going through this phase and I have this itch. And this itch is around building world. Okay. And I know that it seems sometimes taboo. And you know what? You want to talk about money? You want to talk about wealth? Yes. I don't want to talk about it unapologetically. I want to talk about how to build wealth, but not only build wealth, but build generational wealth. I mean, when I think back, I'm someone that has had no fear with hustling. I have no shame. Like I sit back and I reflect with my husband like, Sam, do you know the kind of jobs that I've held throughout my lifetime? Like, oh, my God. What kind of jobs? Oh, my God. I was a mascot. Were you really? I think it was like 1314. I delivered newspapers. I worked in McDonald's. I was a crew chief. I used to train. Wow. I was in cinnamon. I wrote cinnamon rolls. Well, that's a fun job to be sure. But it's very humbling to be able to have started from that because it gives you an opportunity like you're always open to learning. Yeah. And I think to your point, if I were to kind of come back to to that, there's this, I think it's interesting because while I do believe in taking care of yourself, I do think that there's a role to play when you are part of a community. And I think that's very intrinsic in this part of the world. And in the global south, there's almost this inherited responsibility where it's not just about yourself. It's to your community. So even now when you talk about wealth, I want generational wealth. I want to talk about that and educate. That's also, you know, I want to grow and develop and prosper, but within my own little community as a family, which I think speaks of all the use to to someone in and their relationship to where they came from because there's definitely a common thread there. In a world that is moving towards convenience and speed, do you think that cooking from scratch has quietly become like this active form of resistance to that? I think being able to cook from scratch is a luxury. It's not, I don't know if it's an active resistance. I think it's just a luxury. And if you have the privilege to create something out of scratch, that's a luxury that you enjoy every moment of eating whole foods is a luxury. And I think we can be so judgmental in how we eat, what we eat, whether it's sugar free, whether it's organic, whether it's processed, or it's not processed. And I'm always very wary about how we speak around food and how we can have such judgmental calls around food because the world is not equal. Someone can have the money but not have the time. Someone can, I mean, I just working in the community, building the community that I have built. There are so many people that you come across. And I think in my lifetime, I've been able to experience the shoes of different people so I can have empathy for their struggles. I think not everyone has time so they have to depend on the process but then they create that nostalgic moment with the simple ways. I think someone might have too much time but not have the resources, the financial resources. So I feel like in the world that it's just so judgmental, we just have to have a bit of grace. And just everyone does them what works for them without, without side-eyeing or having a call. If someone wants to have that instant cup of noodles, maybe that's all they can have. I think that's a very fair, I think that's a very important message honestly because I think especially in an era where being a quote-unquote "trade wife" is a trend and it's an aesthetic and it's something that people can actively take on as a performative role. I think that there's a lot of truth to what you're saying in terms of, you know, for some people, it's not always about choice, it's about, you know, the life that they have and the context of their life and their access to resources. So I think it's important to remember that, you know, there shouldn't be judgment in that at all for the good or for the bad. But I have a question. If someone understood your life only through your meals, the ones that you've cooked, what would you hope that they would understand about you? I've never thought about that question. That's a good question. That I am someone that is kind, that has grace in the sense that allow people to be who they are and not judge them because everyone's journey is different, everyone is in a different chapter of their life. Someone that's strong, that's intentional. Someone that can handle the heat. Have you ever felt misunderstood? Yes, and my clothes have had to come out sometimes and they're always shocked but you're supposed to be nice. Yes, I can be nice, but also firm and have boundaries. Learning how to build boundaries There's a strong one, but I do it. on a politically now. How's your health? Fantastic. The healthiest I've ever been? The fittest I've ever been? That's incredible. Before I go to our last question, I have a question about motherhood. What has motherhood taught you about being the woman that you are today, living at a time that we are living in? That is quite uncertain. At times, feels unstable, is constantly trying. It's not easy. No matter where you live in the world, no matter what your privilege is. It's a very strange time. What has being a mother taught you? That life happens for you, not to you. And every challenge is there to teach you a lesson. And sometimes the challenges get harder and harder. That means you're not listening. You're not learning, you're not shedding. So, if it becomes harder, slow down, listen and figure out why it's getting harder. Because it's the same problem was likely repeated, repeated, repeated, and you're just not changing. So, my kids have been that lesson for me. My kids have been. So, Yusuf is 2008. Wow. Recession. Recession. So, he was the one who told me remain humble. When you have wealth and remain stable, and so they can be resilient when it's not a drought, a period of drought. Adam was my 2010, and he's my. So, 2008's Yusuf stayed in the Yusuf story, right? Can you elaborate? Stayed in the Yusuf. There's a whole story of seven years of drought, seven years of wealth. I don't. I won't say it correctly, but that's the main element. One of the main stories around Zadena Yusuf. So, Yusuf is my reminder of the seven years of drought and seven years of real patience through all of those things. Yeah, and to remain humble, just because you have the wealth doesn't mean you become arrogant, maintain your humility, and be cautious, so that when it's the tough days, you know how to kind of navigate. And then Adam was my 2010 baby, and Zadena Adam is the first prophet. So, Adam is the reminder that there's a new day, and a new chapter. And so, just because you had a struggle that was the past, Adam is your reminder of a fresh page. And then Sami is 2013. Sami is my baby that his name means to be Minal Sumu, right? To be of elevated stature. So, you rise above the problems, and you don't let it take you down. You don't let it become you. You have to have al-Kibir. You have to have a, you know, a bigger point of view. And so, surprisingly, the names of my children and the lessons I've learned are always lessons that isn't just from the age, but they're constantly challenging me and helping me grow, grow, grow, grow as a human. So, my kids are my, my gift of life. That's beautiful. I love that you tied them each to, to one of your children. Yeah, well, it, you know, I didn't intentionally, like, Adam, Yusuf was supposed to be a brachim, but when he was born, my husband and I looked at each other, like, it's a Yusuf. And then it made sense why. And Adam was supposed to be a up. Wow. Wow. I usually end this episode on a question that I leave for you to ask. What would you like to ask me, or what would you like me to consider? In what respect? In any way. So, usually, the whole idea is if this conversation led you to a moment where you feel like Dana, what would you do, or if there's a specific question you have in mind for me, or if you feel like, instead of question, you kind of want to leave us with a message, a mindset, something to consider. Oh, my God. Every morning, I have all these, like, mindset conversations with myself. And, okay, I know what I'm going to ask, because it's a question that interests me, and it's about wealth. Okay. Ask. How is your relationship around money and building wealth? Interesting question. I've never been asked this question. How's my relationship to it? It's one that is laced with anxiety because I feel incredibly intimidated when it comes to the idea of how I can grow wealth. I was always a good saver. I was always someone who understood how not to spend and to grow my wealth through saving. However, what I've come to realize in adulthood is that I didn't take enough risks. And because I didn't know how, and I was always too shy, and maybe a little ashamed to ask questions. So, while, of course, I think that there's still opportunities to learn and grow in that respect, I would say my relationship to it is, I'm a bit intimidated by the subject because I feel like it's one of those subjects where a lot of people talk about it, but it doesn't feel practical and easy to apply. It feels like I have to go get a degree, which I know isn't the case, but, you know, so that's my relationship to it. Yeah. So, hopefully, we will grow. I mean, I'm also working on my journey and my, my, my intent of changing, but I'm hoping to take a whole bunch of people along the ride with me. So, shallow. I mean, I feel, I feel lucky that you announce this here because once it comes out, we're going to hold you accountable to it. Zada, thank you so much for being here. It was such a pleasure to have you. Thank you for having me. This was amazing and apologies for all the tears. No, no, I loved it. It made me, it made me love you more. Thank you for being who you are and what you do. And good luck with the next chapter. Thank you. Thank you. And to everyone listening, as always, thank you for the privilege of your time. I hope that you found something to consider.