Noah-O

Welcome to episode 24 of "Foreground Background" with me Noah Scalen. I'm an artist, author and corporate creativity consultant, and today I'm interviewing Noah O. Noah O is an innovative rapper and entrepreneur that has been a staple on the Virginia hip-hop scene since his debut project, Monument Avenue, in 2014. Noah founded the charged up entertainment record label and recently launched a flagship store in Richmond, Virginia. He's made appearances on Sway in the Morning and Hot 97 and was named one of Style Weekly's Top 40 Under 40. His recent release is the deeply personal album Trillipino, which captures his experiences as a Filipino American growing up in San Francisco and Richmond, Virginia. In this hour-long conversation, we discuss dissolving self-pressure to allow for creative experimentation, translating storytelling and poetry skills into a creative career, and so much more. I couldn't have made this podcast without my team art members on Patreon. The regular writing and reflection I do from my Patreon page has me thinking deeper about the issues that artists and creative folks of all sorts have to contend with. I've been talking with fellow working creatives to get their perspective and once I started having these conversations, I realized that others could benefit from them as well. If you enjoyed this podcast, please leave a comment and let me know what resonates with you and give it a thumbs up or a five-star review wherever you listen to it. And of course, if you're not already a team art member, I hope you'll check it out at patreon.com/noescalin. For as little as $5 a month you get behind the scenes access to my art studio, including content available nowhere else. Hey Noah, oh, it is a pleasure to have you on my podcast. Thank you, thank you Noah. It's always funny to say, to speak and say the name Noah. Right? It's funny too because if you grew up like us with the name Noah, it was actually a pretty rare name. Yeah, yeah. It is not anymore. It was the most popular children's name for many years running recently. So we're going to be in a world full of Noah's vision. Yeah, I have a son named Noah, and he know other children or kids named Noah, but yeah, until I met you, I think I had met like two or three Noah's in my childhood. Well, we won't be the rare exclusions anymore in this world. So gosh, you know, I'm trying to even remember how we originally met. We have some mutual friends. And I'm trying to think about, you know, I remember when your Monman Avenue album came out, I feel like that. That's a horrible number. Yeah. And somebody was like, you got to check this guy out, and then we got introduced and found we had a lot of mutual interest and just really a kindred spirit when I see you in terms of your creative output, your creativity. And so that's really what this conversation is about, just sort of getting a sense of how did you get to where you are now, what was that journey like, how do you do what you do? So I always like to take people all the way back. So let's go back to childhood. And young Noah, you came out of the San Francisco area, right? Correct. I was born in San Francisco, California. I grew up and I was born at Kaiser Hospital, I think on Gary Avenue in San Francisco. Well, we're getting really specific. Yeah. So people that are in San Francisco, the Bay Area, they'll know what I'm talking about. But I was born at Kaiser in San Francisco. I grew up in visitation valley neighborhood at first in San Francisco, then I spent a lot of time in my grandmother's house on Geneva Avenue near like sunny Dale in that area. And then I lived in a daily city, then moved back to my grandmother's house on Geneva in like near the Excelsior district. So and then you moved to Richmond, how old were you when you came this way? I was about to turn 13, so I was about to 18. My father was, my father was born in Richmond. He grew up in Chicago, but then moved back to Richmond and ended up on the West Coast as a young man. And that's where he met my mother. So there's another connection between us, my parents grew up in Chicago. Oh, yeah. That's cool. Yeah. My dad grew up. So my dad's dad was actually an artist, a painter, and he's like, I'm in my line. But my dad's dad met my dad's mom in Richmond, that University of Richmond. He was an art student and then he ended up going to Chicago to like pursue art and go to school. I think it was like the Chicago art institute or something. Yeah. So he took his family from Virginia to Chicago and he was out there until my dad was about in middle school. So my dad grew up in Chicago from like being a baby to middle school and moved back to Richmond. And then he was very like left, left leaning, very progressive, radical type of person. This is like Vietnam or right after Vietnam during that time period. And he just found that the West Coast was a better, better fit for like who he was with as a person, you know? Yeah. Well, and you exactly answered sort of the beginning of my question really because the reason I want to take you back is really just to say, you know, did you grow up in a household where art, creativity, you know, music making, was that happening? Were you encouraged to do it? Were you doing it? Was it something that you were kind of right out the gate known for? Not originally as far as like, I didn't really start doing music to like middle school, but creativity was definitely like nurtured. I remember like my parents held raised my cousin, so he kind of lived in our household as like a big brother, but I remember very early in like middle school, he would get in trouble. So my mom like enrolled him in some kind of summer program where he, it was called make a circus where he would, they took like these kids, like inner city kids and they taught them like circus things, and then at the end of the program, they would perform like their own circus, and my cousin was into that, and he was really into like hip hop, like this is like the time of like hip hop was just beginning and hip hop had a lot of roots and grassroots things going on in the Bay Area. So I remember like things like break dancing and my parents, like I have pictures of where I was like five and I'd be at like these break dancing things with my parents. I didn't know that like those things were so, you know, so much a part of like my upbringing, you know, like being around hip hop, but I wasn't like trying to wrap or anything like that myself, but they did put me in a talent show when I was like five or six where we performed. We were kind of like just like, I guess we'd be like karaoke or something where we were like miming this known hip hop song from the fat boys, so like my parents put myself and my little friends in like starter jackets with pillows, we were like, you know, pretending we were wrapping the words. So like there were like, you know, experiences like that, but yeah, creativity was like nurture. Whatever pretty much like we wanted to do as kids, whether it was sports or like things that stay out of trouble, my parents were encouraged. I feel like that makes such a huge difference when your parents are like good about it or say go for it, you know, push you towards and say, yeah, this is cool and not it's not for you. No, and I was very, I was just talking to my sister about this where like my father was an entrepreneur, so he was like had to be in his 20s or just about the time he was 30, he opened his own, sentry 21 real estate office in the inner city, like not too far from the neighborhood we lived in where, you know, I got to see like my dad was own his own place, like he was young, own buildings and stuff, but my parents, like eventually once I got to middle school, my mom saw that like I was getting in trouble and different things, there's a lot of stuff going on with our family, just in our environment that we were exposed to that weren't good, but the, she recognized that I had a talent for writing, like so she encouraged me to enroll in creative writing classes and that's kind of where that was like the beginning of me wrapping, because from writing I could like really elaborate in a very detailed way, like storytelling and poetry, so that eventually evolved into me being able to take my own experiences and put it into the form of words, you know, yeah, that's awesome. I love that again you were encouraged and they were given, there was a format, right? Okay, you're writing, seems like you're going to go do it more, did you then, I guess what's the segue from there to wrapping and what age was this happening at, so you know, were you about, so about middle school is when like I started getting like, I guess building my confidence that I could really had a talent for writing, you know, she, I was fortunate, my mom did recognize that in me and push me in that direction, so about, I say about 14 or 15 is probably about 15 is when just messing around with my friends or like I was starting to smoke a little bit of weed, so I would just wrap like freestyle and then it became a thing of every time I was with my friends, they would tell me like, I guess they recognized I was good at it and I was looking back on it, it was just something that came very natural, I could, you know, just hear it beat and I just start wrapping, I could wrap about everything that was going on in the room or right in front of me and it made sense, it wasn't like I was trying to just, it came very natural, so like and at the time again, I was getting in a, I was getting in a lot of trouble, I got like expelled from school, kept being kicked out of school or just problems with, I guess authority figures, you know, arrested for little stuff but, and about high school is when I started to like really just fall in love with hip hop, like I just like ate, slept and breathed it like I'd have to look at the magazines or watch videos and then I started like any time I'd get money, I'd go to like little record stores and buy like the singles and so from there is when I started to like whatever I could do to put myself around hip hop, I would do whether it was like just me getting the magazines and stuff and then like, let me rewind a little bit, all right, so before then growing up in San Francisco, like I was immersed around hip hop culture, hip hop culture is not just wrapping, it's graffiti, break dancing, DJing and, and I'm seeing, those are like the four pillars, so like first things that I was doing to kind of contribute or, or attempt to be part of the culture was I was doing graffiti, like as a kid I was like 10 years old and I'd begun all day catching the bus, like all day to go to school and make my way back home, so this is like eight hours, I was like 10, 11 just in the city and I'd see like graffiti and I started to put it together in my head like I'd learn the graffiti artists names and see these big pieces they were doing and I'd see it on the bus, so even that like 10, 11 I started to like, vandalize graffiti on the buses, you know, wherever I was, popular thing is to take like the UP, United States Postal Service priority labels and you write on those or draw it and then you stick it somewhere, so I was doing that at like 10, 11, so I did that for a while, then I'd say when I moved to Virginia, I remember reading a magazine by Mark Eco, and Mark Eco, who started Eco Clothing, was in the graffiti, he was a graffiti artist, so he had like a, I guess it was like a zine and it was about graffiti, but I saw an article about these dudes that were from San Francisco and Daily City where I grew up, there was a group of Filipino DJs and at the time they were like the top DJ crew in the world, they'd win like these graffiti, I mean, these DJ battles, so I was reading about these guys and I kind of connected with them because I'm living in Virginia, but I'm seeing these guys in these magazines and they were from my old neighborhood, so I started to think and they were Filipino too and that was the first time that I'd seen like Filipinos getting recognized for being part of like hip hop culture, so I wanted to be like those guys, so I started to like, I guess scheme on how I could get like $300 to order these like my first DJ kids, but it like 13, 14, that's a lot of money, you know, so I couldn't get my hands on like the money to get my own DJ equipment, but what I could do was I could write in the notebook and from there I started to get like these cassette singles that would have the instrumentals and I'd write, started writing to those, then I figured out like I could take my CD boom box and I could put the CD in the top and play the instrumental and then record it to the cassette portion by wrapping into my headphone. Oh my gosh. Yeah, you play the headphone into the microphone slot. Exactly. Oh my gosh. So I said ingenuity. Yeah, yeah, and that's like, you know, that's to me, you know, you can draw the parallel between like hip hop and punk because it's a very like DIY approach, you take whatever you have access to and you use it to create something new, you know, that's where hip hop comes from. The music of hip hop started with like kids taking these like disco or like disco records and like juggling the beat to make a new beat and then they'd wrap over it and that's what a created hip hop, you know, so it's always been a part of like hip hop, the way you just take what you take from other things in your environment and you reinterpret it as something else, you know, but one of the first things I did was like, I got my hands on a mixtape of like DJ clue or some other famous DJ and I was like, probably like eighth or ninth grade and I was like, man, what can I do to get some money? I could take this cassette, duplicate it. I could go buy some blank tapes from like the dollar store, make like five copies of it, but then there was a copy place so I could take the mixtape cover and go make copies of it on the like I cut out one copy of it and then make two, then copy that then cut those out. But each one would buy it. I feel like kids do not know this very specific thing that is so familiar to me that like the trips with copy machines and each one was progressively worse, the father was degrading. I did that and then I was like, what I did was I snuck at the end of the tape, me wrapping as a freestyle, like onto the end of the last song, I then like recorded myself wrapping over some instrumental and like put and I, you know, dubbed it onto the tape so I was like some of these mixtapes at school, but I didn't have my name like listed on the cover so I was just selling them and then I think somebody was like, man, I heard what you did or is that you wrapping at the end of it and I was like, yeah, like I was just sneaking it on there to see if people would like it but that was probably like my first time, like it was those were my first experiences like wrapping from my friends, burning these or dubbing these cassettes and then like things got serious when I got expelled from school and I had to go to an alternative school and the first week I was there, there were people from the part of Henrico that I lived in that told me about another, some other kids that were from the East End and they're like, yo, you know, you like to wrap or people knew I could wrap just from hearing me freestyle at like different things but they're like, yeah, these guys over there and they wrap but they're like serious, they're doing shows so I was introduced to this kid on the field trip and I sat down with him and he told me he was like, oh, you can wrap too, you know, and at this time not everybody was wrapping, like it was a very, I want to say exclusive but it wasn't something like now where everybody attempts to wrap, it was like, it was a hard thing, you know, to do like to put words together so at this time, it's like if you weren't serious about it, people would like, this wouldn't take you serious, you know what I mean? So it's not like something you could really just like kind of wing it back then, it was like either you could or you couldn't, if you couldn't, you had no business attempting it because the people they could do it were really good at it. So I was somebody who was really good at it, I just didn't have any like connections or community of other people who are really good at it. So this was the first time I met, you know, another person my age who was serious but he told me that that weekend he was going to be on BET, which was like a big deal, he was going to be on BET performing for some show they had called Team Summit, which was like a show that used to come on and they would show like, they would talk about different social justice things but then they would also have people performing on the show and BET at the time was like, you know, the biggest black entertainment network there was, you know, rap city, it was like a, this is a national thing, an international channel. So yeah, I met, I met this kid and he was telling the truth. So that Saturday I went and turned on the TV, I didn't even have KY to go to somebody else's house just to, let me see if this guy is really on there and he was and it just blew my mind away for the first time I was like, this is a kid I just was at school with the other day and he's on TV rapping, you know, it's like it really made it real in my mind like I could do this and this is potentially what could happen. So from there, when we got back to school the next week, he invited me to become like part of like a crew they had. So through him though, I was introduced to like, kids from all over and they kind of had like a collective where it was like 15 of them that rap like Wu Taing, you know. So I started, that's when it really got serious. I started hanging with them and it's just like that changed my life because every day, every weekend I was like at the studio, eventually I was asked to join like their group and that's when it became real serious. So like every weekend, we were like rapping at like events and this, this and that and from that, that's when it became for real. And I also like in addition to me actually rapping, again, I would do whatever I could to put myself around the culture. So I met guys, back in those days, like since everything was in the real world and not digital, the record labels had like these teams of promotions, teams, you know, in every city, every major mid market, whatever. So you'd have like a major record label. They would allocate part of their marketing budget and each sit to give to like somebody in that city and they'd give that, you know, little bit of money, but they'd give you posters, you know, any promotional shirts, I mean stuff like shirts, posters, tapes, like all the cool stuff to promote for these albums or artists that were, they were going to put out. And then along with that came, you know, if you were part of these teams of people who are doing the promotions whenever these rappers or the record label people would come to town, you know, you were part of their team to help show them around that city, you'd have to go with them to the show or to the hotel, like you were their eyes and ears to this market. So I was like 15, 16 and like I was helping like do the promotions for like albums that were coming out on a major level. And I was just happy to do it because like I got to be around the music I love when these rappers would come to town like, yeah, I was a kid hanging with them, going to clubs, studio, just wherever. And then not only that, like when I'd go to school, like I, you know, have shirts and posters, things that other kids didn't have. So like ever since I've been a kid, like people who have seen me around this type of stuff, you know, but at the time, like I knew I was still developing as an artist, but at that you always think you're ready, like I'm ready, I need to get a record deal now, I need to be the man now, but the type of person I am, I'm very calculated. I knew, you know, this is how you get to where you're going, all these things I'm doing are stepping stones because I'm learning the business, I'm learning the business from front to back, like how to properly market our artists, how to move around and talk to like club owner people, venue owners, how to, you know, I just started learning the whole routine, you know, you go to the radio station when you go to a city, you go out and mingle with the people and then at the end of the day or even then you go perform and then they go do it in another city, you know, so I started from that I learned just like from front to back what it took to be an artist and it kind of took away like the mystery or the fascination with it, like I didn't become jaded, but I could see it for what it really is, like this is a job, it's a cool job and what's cooler than that to get paid to do what I love, you know, yeah, there's always my mindset, like so I wasn't like other kids where like when I got a spare dollar, I just wanted to like go to pay to be at the party, I wanted to be the person who was getting paid to be at the party, you know, that makes sense. Yeah, there's so many things here and I guess I want to, yeah, sorry, I'll just like, no, I love it because well, there's so much in there because I think one, like you, you had an opportunity to really intensely hone your craft starting pretty young, which is great. You got an entrepreneur parent, so you had some model for this entrepreneurship. You also got the opportunity to see how things worked. And I think that's a rare thing because a lot of times you don't, right? It's just magic. People exist. They suddenly appear in your world and you're like, I don't know. People are just famous, right? And so to know, oh, no, there's a very specific process. There are a lot of steps and you can follow them. That's all invaluable. So you're doing this in high school. Yeah, it happens when you get out of high school. Oh, man, it just continued. So when I was in high school, again, my mom encouraged me to like take classes that were like honing what I love. So like, I got kicked out of school again, but I was given the opportunity to like go into this alternative school program that would allow me to still take like technical center classes at another school. So my mom talked in my counselor and they kind of like made an exception for me where I would go to the alternative school, but I'd still be allowed to attend like Highland Springs for tech center. And at the time, Henrico was the only county they had a radio broadcasting and journalism class. Wow. So this class not only taught you how to operate, it's like it taught you about the radio business, how it started, how radio, what radio was invented for, how to actually DJ like and be a radio announcer, how to write, you know, copy for the commercials. So that part of our class was actually the class had a radio station in it. And it's still there. It's in Highland Springs where the broadcast signal probably goes for like nine miles or something. But I was taking that class in high school. As soon as I got out of high school, I wanted to go to college, but I actually had a, I had a baby in the 11th grade. I had my first son. So I knew that I needed to stay home to work. Like I was at a crossroads. I can either go to college and not get to see my son or I could stay home, work, and I'd get to be with my son. But I, which was the best thing because like right out of high school, like within a year, my mom passed away and I ended up getting custody of my son. But one of my first jobs right out of high school, I got a job with, at the time, clear channel broadcasting, which is, I think it's called intercom now, but they own it. It's a big radio conglomerate. And they, one of the stations they had at this time, it was brand new was 1065 to beat. So I started working for with 1065 to beat, which is like a big hip hop station of Richmond. I've worked there from the first week they were on the air. So yeah, right. Yeah, what a, what a, what a, what a straight trajectory you had. I mean, I feel like so many people are like, oh, well, this, that I move this way that, you know, and like, and a lot of times I'll ask people about college because that seems like that's where people are learning, you know, a very specific aspect of their craft. And you made, you know, such a thoughtful choice, honestly, to be like, hey, I can be with my kid and not or not. I mean, and so like your child benefited from that, but that's that point at which for a lot of people would have been, I'm just going to be working some job and that'll be that's my life. And instead, you're just like right onto the next piece that like adds to your puzzle towards where you want to be. So I was still working like, I had like a little part time job, but I heard a commercial one day when I was in the car that this radio station was about to open, you know, come on the air. It was like a fake, like if you, I was probably turning the down, it was like coming soon, you know, this station is coming to this down, you know, number. So I just drove, I just drove or I found out where it was at. And I just went up there and I was very fortunate like I went there. There was this young lady there and she's like, oh yeah, we're about to come on the air. We need people. So it was like, but that initiative is amazing to sort of see that window. And I think this is consistent with a lot of people to talk to, which is and something I talked about to another person recently about this idea of luck and how we make, you know, opportunities for yourself. Like, you can hear that little ad and do nothing or you can drive immediately there and be like, I need to do this. Yeah. Like my, I was fortunate in the guard like, and now as I'm older, a lot of things make sense, but my father was very like, he came up rough, but he was always writing stuff down and I'd find like writings and sayings and the things he was teaching me or that he was the things that he adhered to now are pretty commonplace, things like manifestation, things like speaking things into existence or vision, envisioning where you want to be. My father was instilling those things in me as a kid like he teaching me to like close your eyes and see yourself doing this and almost like as an exercise. Well, now I'm grown. I can recall these things like he was teaching me some very profound like concepts. Yeah. You know, and one of the his sayings and I still have this piece of paper. It was like, you know, what is it? Luck is when preparation meets opportunity. He had them. He'd carry it around in his wallet and I have it now and it's up on like my dressing. I don't believe it looks like luck, right? So if some people may look at the things I've done, like, man, you're at the right place or the right time or you're lucky or this, this, that, you know, the right people, but it's not any of that. It's me knowing what I want to do, where I want to be and continuously despite all logic, despite all signs, that makes sense. I continued to put myself in the way. You know what I mean? No, I think you've described the formula for success right there. This doesn't make sense logically. Everything will tell you like, no, this is impossible. It's a dream, like, but yeah, like I immediately, I got a job at the station and then I was able to bring one of my best friends who like we were at the radio class together. So like, you know, and we're like 1920. We're working at a radio station. We're getting paid to like, set up radio equipment, go to concerts, drive the radio station, van around. It has like a huge sound system and rims on it. So we were like, it was like the best thing for a kid. The party's here. Yeah. We're like going to every, every place that people want to go, but we were getting paid like and meeting like the people we look up to, like meeting famous people like, so it was just like, yeah, living what we are like, I guess a dream, you know what I mean? So, so where, so from here, where you are now, you get this job. How do you get to putting out your first release? So at that time, I was in a group on Devon's son. So we were, we were kids that were wrapping, but we weren't like a kid wrapping group like Little Bowel. We the concepts, we were around like, you know, some like guys like street guys and things like that or people from our community that were, I guess we'd be able street guys, but we were, we were like young, young men trapped in kids bodies, you know, or kids age. So we were, we were part of a bigger collective called villain faith. And we were putting out mixed tapes like on our own, just putting out, you know, mixed tapes performing. But over time, like my group members, well, first like the bigger collective, we were a part of kind of dissipated after one of the leaders, unfortunately passed away. So from there is when I started to think along the lines of like having our own movement, which was charged up. And this is like 2002. So I've always like, hip hop, there's always been these stories of the self-made, you know, entrepreneurs or record labels like Jay-Z with Rockefeller or Master P with no limit or E-40 with sick with it records. That's, you know, part of hip hop is like, you just doing it yourself. If you don't have any help, instead of waiting for, you know, some imaginary hip hop fairy to come down and put a deal on the pillow, you got to, you got to do what you can. You know, so we started charged up and we're, you know, wrapping, putting out our own mixed tapes and things like that. And the fast forward like I started putting out like mixed tapes at first, but I was still part of a group. But eventually like my group members began to get into like production and I just never really was passionate or it could make beats. I never really wanted to make beats. I just actually wanted to wrap and tell my story. So, you know, fast forward, I'm putting out mixed tapes, putting out mixed tapes, putting out mixed tapes. In about 2010, 2011, one of my songs from my mixed tape, we shot a video in the video. And at this time, I was starting to throw events too, from like my experience of being at the radio station, seeing how like events were coordinated and put together. I figured out how to throw events on my own too. So like not only like was I learning the rap part, I was learning, you know, how to actually rap, how the music business works, how events are coordinated and put together in finance. And then how to promote these things. So like all the components of like, you know, what is needed to to to enter or be a part of hip hop, I was learning, you know, first hand. But I shot a video and I'll throw an event at the camel every month. I shot the video at an event I threw and the video ends up getting into rotation on MTV jams, which is like, it is a big deal, you know, crazy. Yeah, I didn't have a record deal, you know, people from Virginia had gotten record deals before. But I say I was like, one of the first, if not the first artists from Richmond, especially to have a video going to major, going to major rotation. Because, you know, with radio and with video, the way these things work, there's a finite amount of like videos that can be in circulation at any time on a major platform. There may be 12 videos you're going to see constantly. My video was one of those like, few videos and rotations. So like, it's how did they find it? There was a gentleman, so I collaborated on the song with a guy named Streets Deep and another guy named Jay Nero. Streets had a manager at the time, a guy named Creme, Creme, who are resting piece. He passed away in 2012. But Creme, the video was such good quality. So this is the time that like these high quality digital cameras were beginning to be accessible on a like a, I guess, accessible to like regular people, where you can get a camera and it looked like something I record, like we put out. So we, once I saw like videos with that type of quality, I wanted that type of quality video. So I found a director who could do it. And this time also was like the convergence, or this is when like Twitter first came out, right? So like whenever new social media platforms come out or new technology, you'll have what's called an early adopter. I didn't realize it. I always kind of been like that. Like when there's this new thing, like try it. Normally when there's like a new social media, the first people that are on those platforms are other people with the like mindset. So when I first got on Twitter, it was very easy to get in contact with people who were like may have been out of your reach before. Yeah. So we put the video, we submitted the video through like a submission service. And yeah, on Twitter, on Twitter, the guy who was helping manage my friend found like this young lady who worked for MTV programming and not only and I also got in contact with a guy. Now these people like the one guy who put my video in there, he's like the head of like either Spotify or Apple music, like playlisting, like I just reached, you know, at that time you could because it wasn't so saturated with people just like talking about random stuff. If you were on there, you were trying to do something, trying to accomplish some more, some kind of like make it move. You know, this is a it's a through line that I've seen with several people where, you know, we're talking about that luck, but also in terms of opportunity. And that specific piece of like being an early adopter and using seeing something new and taking advantage of it in that moment when it when you can, because you can't know, right? Like like that access. Yeah, like it's sort of just staying on top of it. What's happening in the world is so important because that's where that right. You follow that thread. You're like, Oh, this is what happened, right? I had this chance. I talked to this person. And that's what can't. And I've heard stories from many people about that sort of use of that technology in that way. I'm totally done it. Like yeah, we reached out to them. And it was just, I mean, there's a conversation. We're like, Hey, you know, we submitted this. And then the young lady was like, Oh, Hey, yeah, I'm going to go into the computer. So she saw it and she was like, Yeah, there's a meeting Monday. I'll bring it up. I like that. And she said like, Oh, we watched a video. We love it. It's going to start airing tomorrow. You know, and you know, what I like about these conversations, I hope that people are listening to him get from right is that like the structure of how this works. You can't ever replicate somebody else's success. You can't be like, let's do what you did, right? But like that way of responding where like you were one of whoever many submissions, but that that contact made her pull it out, right? And that, and it had to be good, right? Yeah, it couldn't have been crap. If it was crap, it wouldn't happen. But like you made an intentional choice about the quality, every piece of that adds up to that. I love that. So this is, so this is a big breakthrough for you in terms of getting opportunities. Yeah, this is like 2011, 2012. So, um, and I'm, and I'm, you know, backtracking so I could lead you in the monument avenue. So from there, I start getting like record labels, I started getting like radio station DJs, people who previously like didn't pay attention to me. I cut through all of that now. Now I'm emerging to the whatever some mythical front of the pack, as far as like at least this region. Like I've done something that put me like ahead of others, you know, but it wasn't, it was, I was very intentional about what I was doing, but I didn't know at the time, you know, as an upcoming rapper, you know, probably I don't know other people's like trajectory, but my mindset was just like, you try to do something, you get a lot of attention. And then you get quote unquote the record deal, right? Right. And then that's the pinnacle and you've done it somehow. Yeah. So have happily ever after. Yeah, right. So I put myself, you know, on that trajectory. Now I'm a backtrack a little bit. When I was in the group, like I said, my partners were producing. They weren't rapping as much. My partner started as I was putting out my first solo mix tapes. I've always been good at like marketing promotion. So I like flooded, flooded the streets with like my mix, my first mix tapes. So my first mix tapes were like probably very different from who I was in my group, you know, I played, played the background in the group. But now I was like in the forefront. A lot of the group songs were kind of like we had to find a happy medium of how we could work together as a group, right? Like I was always more like lyric driven, probably like different concepts where my partner, he was very good at making like catchy music, like probably more pop as far as like catchy easily accessible music. So he started to tell me, you know, that people people like my mix tape, but people were saying like, oh, well, he he's not making anything that's like for the radio or for the clubs, you know? It's very good as a rapper, but it's not catchy. I wasn't making anything catchy. I guess, you know, those types of records for some people are very hard, but for me it's easy to write those type of records. It challenged me, you know, to really like, it was very, it was more challenging for me to write about my real life or about things that were deeply personal. So I felt like I was able to do that for the first time because I wasn't in a group. I could let people more in them who I was, but when he told me that, I kind of took it as a challenge, like you know what? All right, people know I can rap now and I was starting to win like battles and things like that. So people really knew like, I can rap. I won battles. I was starting to make a name for myself as a solo artist, but when that happened, I took it as a challenge, like you know what? I'm going to studio and I'm going to make something to just shut all that up, right? So I did. And it had that, it took off, got on TV. So now I was like at a crossroads where like I was meeting people from record labels, meeting DJs. And the thing is when you when you make something that like instantly catches on, it'll bring a lot of attention to you, but the the ask or the expectation is that you'll continue to drop music to follow up on that success. Normally something that like sounds similar or can easily pivot people from that to the next similar record, but that wasn't, again, there was no plan, no foresight. It was just make this song. Everybody's going to like it. I'm going to get a deal and I'll be rich in whatever, whatever I was thinking. Yeah. I was meeting and say I met some A and R's people coming to Richmond to look at me and meet with me. The question they would ask is like, all right, so what's next? Like what's next? And that's what I didn't realize is that when you meet these people, even if it's a record label, whoever it is, they don't have the plan. They'll finance your plan, but a lot of times they don't have some magic blueprint. They're willing to put money up to get behind whatever's working for you and just as long as it keeps bringing in money and more of the same. So when I realized that, I kind of got frustrated because I was like, man, I realized like, okay, if I do this or I sign something, I'm going to have to continue to make these types of songs. And that's not who I wanted to be as an artist or that's not what I wanted from my career. And I've seen all these stories of people who like sign these deals. And now they're no longer in control. You're just yeah, it's you, but it's you and you're just like a drone. You're just up there singing and dancing. As long as somebody can just like keep this machine going. Yeah, I didn't want that. I wanted the freedom to say what I wanted to do what I wanted and to feel, you know, happy with myself at the end of the day, be able to look myself in the mirror and know that I did things on my terms. So I met, during this time, I met this producer, Clef Dollars, and we became really close and Clef, he seen what was going on. He'd been in the studio with me and there's an A&R there. And he was like, you know, I'm not going to tell you what to do, but this ain't it like this. I know it's about to happen because Clef was like the first person from him and Matt skills or the first people from Virginia and Central Virginia to get record deals. So he more or less let me know like I'll help you with whatever you need if that's what's going to happen, but you know, we need to talk. And I had known them for years before that, but we never sat down to like really talk and work on music. So once I sat down with him is when he was like, you know, that's that's not it. You know, what you think is going to happen isn't going to happen. I've already been through that. Like let's just let's just like shut like ignore all of this and let's just like work on music. It's amazing. You found somebody that could do that for you because I mean, and then you have the force of will to sort of say like I could take the money, right? I mean, if you're getting offered deals, that's hard to say no to, but to say, I want to do what I love what I'm passionate about and not turn into this, you know, as you described it so well, this sort of just machine to produce money for these people, like that's hard to do that to sort of stick with your guns and so to have an advisor or somebody can say like for real, like this is not going to serve you ultimately in the short term it will. And I think that's that piece, right? The like, oh, I see fame as the success of getting a deal or break it out whatever. But if you don't look past that, if you don't set the goal higher, that's where you peak. Yeah, and that's and that's what I didn't want because Richmond, you know, Virginia has it had a tremendous amount of people who've like had that opportunity and I know how this place could be, especially in the hip hop crowd where it's like, I'm the type where I'd rather do things in my pace and the way I want then to be somebody who people looked at like, I had an opportunity and I screwed it up because it's a lot harder to get people back on your side if they look at you like a hip hop, the term like you fell off or you fumbled the opportunity, you know, so this was an opportunity for me to like redirect and like become who I wanted to be like I saw artists that were building like grassroots fan bases and not not from Virginia but like people who were from other markets and I kind of wanted to emulate their career trajectory was like, you know, you can be one of these people who gets I can create a hot song but that's just a moment, you know what I mean? And moments don't last but if you can create something sustainable over a length of time, that's the type of career I wanted to where, you know, my impact isn't just felt for a moment, you know, you'll have moments where some things are felt more than other but when you can have a pattern and a career that looks like that, that's when you know the way that people look at you or the conversation that revolves around your name is totally different and that's what I wanted more than anything. So clef started me on that path. We started working on an EP and right at the end, like literally the week after he mixed the last song, clef passed away. Yeah, unexpectedly and it kind of really messed me up because he was like a big brother figure to me a mentor. He was the first person that had some larger measure of success and respect in the hip-hop community and industry who who kind of took me under their wing. So when that happened, that was like in 2012. It's kind of lost for a while because, you know, we completed the project but I didn't want to like ask his family for the files and I had, you know, and I really didn't need to anyway. I had my own studio, I had other music so I just left it alone and fortunately, one of the producers who had produced, like, saw him from me here and there. God Taylor Whitelow reached out to me and he said, you know, I know you were like working with clef and he kind of took you under his wing. I want to do the same thing where me and you just make a whole album together and, you know, let's just talk about it and it was really like, so we sat out and started talking and then that's where Monument Avenue. He came from, he said, I've had this idea for some time. I don't know if it should be like a group or I put it, I just have like this thing in my head called Monument Avenue and at the time our studio was right on like Broad Street and the Boulevard right around the corner from Monument Avenue. So that's where that album came from, you know, just us like our conversations and us kind of processing at the time. It's like 2012, 2013, 2014 where Richmond, especially like, started that as far as I could see, like, there was a change occurring, especially in hip hop and within the city where Richmond was going from just a really rough place and a negative place to like this more artistic place, you know, at the time, in those few years like VCU had once the final four and it was just like becoming a cooler, more artistic place. But it was like, how could we create an album that we take advantage of the place that this is becoming, but we also have to use this platform to like acknowledge some of the things or speak on some things that aren't being like talked about, like, what's going to happen if, you know, Richmond becomes this creative, how can Richmond truly become this creative progressive place without addressing like kind of the, the sins and the pain of the past, which very much has an effect still on the current time. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. So that's what that's kind of how everything from the beginning up to that moment. Right. Well, this could turn into a multi-part podcast because I know you have so much interesting stuff to talk about how all the, because you've been in a powerhouse from that moment to now. I mean, I can't even count how many albums, mix tapes, collaborations, things that you've created during that time. And that's not even talking about you starting a store, the clothing line, you know, making art and really pushing yourself and all these really inspiring directions. I gosh, I mean, this is the thing. Look, we don't have time to cover all of it. So we have to come back because what I really find interesting about all of this is again, just sort of like how you sort of have been very thoughtful and intentional about your process. Have you been able to transition to the point where you now live off of your creative endeavors? Yes, yes, finally. Amazing. We talk about live though, like, you know, am I able to sustain my life currently through my creative things? Yeah, I don't have like, yeah, yeah, it could be better, but that's why I keep working, you know, because there's things I do want materially. Right. Children, you know, but yeah, I honestly say that where the things that I come up with are enabling me to like survive each day. Amazing. I think that's because I think that's something that a lot of assumptions are made about when you encounter people who have success. You know, you see people dropping out and whatever and you think, okay, well, they're rich now or whatever it is. But like so many people are still working and there's no negativity about that. I mean, you know, you piece it together however you do. I do it in a variety of ways. I each I do workshops. I make art. I could, you know, you, you know, you just figure it out. That that like what you said is something I had to realize, right? In the past, I would look at everybody's pictures different, especially in 2022, right? Does that come from just music? That's probably like honestly, no, like it's a combination of things, right? Whether, you know, it might be, you know, every month is different though, as you know, like every where we're creative. So like, you know, I have a store now, but then I'm also doing songs, some clothing. I have other other things that like investments and different things I've done, but I've worked also during that time. I've worked nine to five jobs in between. There's there's times I've attempted to like do music only or you know, when I say music, it's not just music, but I mean, creative endeavors, right? There's there's been gaps times where I work nine to five and juggling vote, you know what I mean? But like, since for the last two years, it's strictly been this, which is amazing because the last two years for context of whenever somebody's listened to this, if you didn't listen to it the day it comes out, right? Those last two years was two years of a pandemic. So when a lot of people were struggling the most, you've been able to sort of create this opportunity for yourself. Yeah, and it, man, I think about that all the time, like, you know, the, the month. I went into the pandemic without a job, you know, it was the scariest thing to think like, what am I going to do is the world about to end? Am I going to starve? You know, am I going to be out in the streets? But like, it's like, what is it? Like, when you're back is to the world, you know, and through that, I just started to work. Like, a lot of times, I thought I was at my capacity as far as what I could take on how much more work I could do. But a few years ago, I had a manager at one time, shut out Ricky Parker. He really challenged me to do more. Like, you got to do more. And it's like, I thought I was doing the most I could do then. But it's like, this is a very hip hop is very competitive. I mean, just the audacity to try to be creative and make a living is an audacious thing. Like, it doesn't make sense. Like, but I have found, and now I'm getting more comfortable with myself in that way, where I know that when like, things are at their worst, if I just continue to work hard and keep my eyes open and not let like, my mind or my circumstances get the best of me. You know, some opportunity will present itself as long as I keep going. You know, that's the key is like, keep going. And that's what like charged up is about. It's just a mentality or a belief. Like, got to keep going. Like, the energy has a button, just keep going and keep going. Like, even when I don't feel like it, and it's not easy to do. But in the last two years, I've like challenged myself to do even more. And I found it like the more I do, it's like energy, the more when you're already moving, other things that are moving will cross your path. Yeah. No, this is profound. I mean, I think that I was going to ask you what advice you'd give other people. But honestly, I would just say, repeat everything you just said, because that's it right there. The best advice I could give is to like, especially like in 2022, and I was just having a friend, a conversation with my friend Ty here where there is no one way, right? Even guys who are on major labels, their, their things look very much like you, what you were saying, your piece milling your life together, right? It could be you get this big music project that takes off. But then like, you know, an opportunity presents itself where you design this or you are asked to speak at this or you're, you know, asked to endorse this. Like, it's not one thing. And especially with hip hop, the way it is now, I look at like my actual music. And it's like this for a lot of hip hop. Your music is almost like the commercial, the sound, the, the, like, it's almost like you, I am the brand, right? I'm the brand. But the music is just a commercial for the overall brand. So I don't have to put that pressure on myself to like, I have to sell this many records. It's just like, no, I'll, I'll, it gives me by not putting the pressure on myself musically. It's actually made me a better artist to be more, more, more experimental, more free because I'm not like looking at it like I used to wear. I got to make this song and it's going to go sell 50 million copies. And then I'll just be touring like, nah, if I'm more free in my creative process now to be, um, experimental to be more creative, you know, and I found like with me, that's what people appreciate is like the total package the thought I'm putting into like, not only my music, but like the rollout, the, the covers, the design, the merch pieces that accompany it like. So some rappers like Rick Ross is somebody I look up to. He has like champagne. He also owns like wingstop and like rallies, burgers like, you know, there's all this, this portfolio, like it's very like much like entrepreneurial thing, entrepreneurial where they're like, you know, the average wealthy person has like five streams of income. I believe like we're at that place in the world where like the average creative has to have like all types of tentacles, you know what I mean? Yeah, and I think that that not only do you have to have that survive, but I think that creatively, like you're saying, it is, it also inspires you because you don't have all your eggs in one basket, you can jump around, you can, as you said, you can be experimental because it's not the only way you're going to earn income and it isn't that desperation around it. Yeah, yeah. Like that's like Kanye, somebody I look up to as well, or like even you, like you have, you know, your visual things and then you have your band, like I've learned from like and been inspired by like many people, but I really during the pandemic too, I started seeing that I could use like the clothing for me. I don't really like say I have a clothing line because it all goes back to my music. It's like merch or an extension of who I am as a music artist, but I started looking at clothing and things like that as another meat like artistic medium, you know, another means of expression. And that's because and that's when people see a shirt or something with a little catchy thing or something they like they wear it. So it's like I started to really like approach the clothing as like an extension of like my creative process. So there may be times where I'm not inspired musically to go record a song and write a song, but I may just see something where a shirt gives me that same feeling of creation if that makes sense. Yeah, you're funneling your energy towards that. So this is the question I ask everyone and and it's I'm fascinated by how people respond. So I'm intrigued to see what you say. Do you feel successful? Yep. Yeah, I used to, man, I used to wrestle with that question a lot. But I could say like the man I am today, yeah, very much so because I realized that everything that I'm doing or everything I've done is my own doing, right? So it's like if I was to say no, then it's like, man, I'd be pretty miserable feeling because my life right now is exactly what I've gotten. So it's like I've gotten due to my work. So it's like if I wasn't if I didn't feel successful, it just feels pretty like fuel, like what am I doing then, you know, like do I know there's other levels? Yeah, I'd like to continue what I'm doing and it just continue to grow. Of course, make, you know, I want to create more bigger projects, things that are wider received, but I do feel successful. I feel the most free that I've felt in a long time, like artistically, creatively. I'm just inspired by like so many people that are in my circle and the things they've been able to do and just motivated like I would like, of course, for it to grow, but I try not to focus. I find that the like the less I focus on that and the more I just focus on doing the best with like the projects that are in front of me and giving it my all like as far as like the thought I put into it and putting forth my best effort like I have it. Let myself down. Yeah, as long as I continue to do my best, I feel I feel successful. Brilliant. That's I yeah, I couldn't ask for a better answer. Thanks so much for your time. Like I said, I think we'll have to have a follow up because there's just so much we didn't even get to and oh, sorry. No, no, no, it's great. I should expect nothing less from someone who is a wizard with words. So thanks for your time Noah. All right, hey, if you're listening to this, Trilipino is out now, depending on when this comes out, come see us look at charged up stored too in Richmond, Virginia. There you go. Thanks for listening to foreground background with me Noah Scalen. If you want to know more about Noah, oh, check out his site knowa-o dot com, which will also be in the show notes. If you want to help me make more things like this show, please consider becoming part of my team art at patreon dot com slash Noah Scalen. And of course, please rate and review this podcast wherever you found it. The show is edited by Kelsey Devorek. Thank you, Kelsey. And the music used on this episode is Flying High 2019 Hip Hop Remix by Jan Tracks. And finally, a special thanks to all of my Patreon supporters. You help make this show possible and you all rock.