No Problem Passages: Following Up On The 10 MILLION view SLAVERY Kerfuffle

25 million people think I want to bring back slavery. They think they really think that right-wing watch for those of you Don't know they're a left-wing organization that tries to get conservatives canceled and not just canceled I'm making the case killed in light of what happened to Charlie Kirk to intentionally misrepresent someone's views such that they are painted as as holding the most evil possible position you are you're putting it out there to a bunch of Unstable radical insane leftists who are gonna do what they're gonna do. God doesn't take kindly When we stand in judgment over his word especially as those ordained to the ministry of the word of God God doesn't like that Isaiah 66 - this is the one to whom I live he who is humble and Contristened spirit and trembles at my word Hello and welcome to the reformation red pill podcast. I am your host Joshua Hames and today We got a spicy one, but first I got a you know as always I got to introduce the elven prinsling himself Pastor Brooks Poddiger a pastor of Pilgrim Hill reformed fellowship and as always grateful to be saddled up here today Well, it's always a pleasure to be saddled up next to you even though I make your life difficult sometimes Let's address that today Today we're talking about well, we've entitled the episode no problem passages and It's a follow-up to the slavery kerfuffle now some of you some of you who I oh So deeply envy have no idea what we're talking about and to that I say great keep your hand of the plow Stay off X and just just just enjoy that blissful ignorance the best kind of blissful ignorance for those of you who Have been tuned in to X and the online world. I went mega viral or This is the first time I've been supreme like really really viral for something negative and For something that I don't actually believe and so right that's the thing. That's really maddening. So now I've got 25 million people who think I want to bring back Slavery they think they really think that so you're telling me that they weren't quick to listen slow to speak Shocking. It's truly shocking. I know I know So I'll explain the controversy for those of you who don't know about it. I made a video last week reacting to Ali Beth Stucky and her interview or not her interview her debate on surrounded where she was surrounded by 20 progressive Christians and on that video I made the point and I made the case that she lost a little section of one of those debates Particularly with a guy named Tim Whitaker who at the very beginning he asked her Do you believe that it's inherently evil for someone to own another person and she said yes, of course, right? And at that very moment she was going to get cornered It was inevitable because she was playing what we might call the that was then this is now game with scripture She went beyond scripture. And so I you know I'll just give you guys the clip that went viral and I'll have you notice what they didn't add Or what they didn't include in that clip that went viral. So right wing watch who are our biggest fans I know you're watching right now right wing watch You know, I'm sure that you're gonna be so generous and how you clip this episode. So let's just buckle up for that Well, you know a quick note on that right wing watch for those of you who don't know They're a left-wing organization that tries to get conservatives canceled and not just canceled I'm making the case killed because in light of what's going on right now but in light of what's happened to Charlie Kirk to intentionally misrepresent someone's views Such that they are painted as the most as holding the most evil possible position you are You're putting it out there to a bunch of unstable radical insane leftists who are gonna do what they're gonna do and so You know, I don't know I don't know even how this is legal to but you know, I guess I guess it is but It's pretty despicable because now I've received my fair share of death threats because of this So thank you, right wing watch for that. I know you don't really care about your watching So that's that I'll show you guys the clip that they clipped and then we'll Watch a few seconds more to show you what they took out and then we'll get into the topic of the episode Which is to have no problem passages and then we'll kind of do some cleanup work on this whole slavery kerfuffle So with that, let's watch this clip The institution of slavery is not inherently evil I know some of you guys are upset by that some of you guys are saying I've been saying that for years Okay, I'll take it a step further. It is not inherently evil to own another human being. I Know just wait some of you guys are really upset But let's talk through this because it is very important that every Christian affirm what I just said and not only should they affirm it Every Christian in today's society should be able to defend what I just said, okay? Every Christian should be able to defend it big Eva big evangelicalism has been getting this wrong for years basically since the genesis Since the advent of big Eva. They haven't had a good answer for the slavery issue All right, Christians in America have been led astray on this topic They've been led to believe things that the Bible doesn't teach. Okay. They didn't even add that they Scratch the last couple of seconds. They didn't put that. That's where they cut it off So they're like this guy loves slavery. This guy is defending slavery. That's how they framed it Okay, and now we just go a few seconds later and let's see what I had to say are kinder than God I just want to clarify just so it's just crystal clear. I am not saying that slavery was a positive good for society I am not saying that we should bring it back I am very happy that white Christians abolished slavery in the West and basically across the entire world or most of it All right. I'm very happy about that I I want to make my thesis very clear for this episode and it's very simple the box So that's that's what they left off, right? Is that pertinent to to the conversation at all? Yeah, you know, you would think so but not according to right-wing watch They thought now that stuff's not really important. I'm just and something too We live in just outrage clickbait culture and and again, we were part of it, too I mean we've it's part of the world we live in and so it's not just them and us But it is such a reminder of the danger and the limitation of this medium because when you're in a conversation You ask clarifying questions, right? If you are a generally generously spirited person So even the bit that they clipped I I thought wow that that could be taken Very wrong-headedly it could sound like you're saying you need to defend slavery as a good Which is the way they of course put the frame right around it which no, no, no, no I don't want to nope don't want to say that and then you keep going for another minute. Okay. Yeah, okay That's that's great of clarity, but I could have asked you. Hey, so are you saying this and what you would say? No, that's not actually the point I'm making and so we have to be very careful, especially When it's somebody who hates the word of God despises a biblical worldview when they put a frame around something and put it To you as Christians. We just need to be very On guard is there more to this story? Am I being duped here? Well, I mean, I was surprised with how many people got baited into that. Yeah, and that's that's really important because I think I You know, it doesn't really bug me when the left hates me for my views. I that's that's that's to be expected But whenever fellow brothers in Christ Take the leftist framed piece of propaganda that they just put in their lap and just eat it up That's what that drives me crazy. I'm like, what are you doing? Like do you not understand that these people? Hate you like you they hate you too. Okay, and they will do the exact same thing to you All right They're just look you give them any excuse and they'll do it to you too And yet you're gonna dog pile on a fellow brother in Christ dog pile on him for something that Probably we actually mostly agree on well, and what's interesting is the point You're trying to make is to warn Christians that if you concede ground here out of fear You're going to become the Joshua Hames for holding your views on sexuality. That's right That's exactly that's the entire move that's being played here is to get you to flinch at one point in scripture Therefore they can tag you based on your own what you've just said about the word of God for your views on what the the Bible says And that's exactly right and so for this episode we'll keep it pretty short and sweet We titled it no problem passages because honestly that this this concept of no problem passages was pretty powerful for me and in my reformation red pill journey early on because I Lived my life as a Christian even a pastor of a Christian leader with problem passages passages that would make me wince Passages that I might say if I were preaching on them don't shoot the messenger I'm just giving it to you like it instead of loving the law of God loving the word of God I was uncomfortable with it I had I had problem passages and when I think I originally heard Doug Wilson coin that term That immediately resonated with me. Oh my goodness. I I am despising the word of God I'm standing in judgment over the world word of God and apologizing. Yes, or the inerrant word of the holy God What what are we doing? And so and to be clear on this and the way Doug put it is once the exegesis is done Right because there are a lot of bad interpretations of Scripture Okay, there are a lot of bad interpretations of Scripture that should that should cause some rub inside You should have a gut check with you know some of these bad interpretations Yeah, so then we must do the proper exegesis once the exegesis is done. That's it. No problem passages You conform your heart to that, right? And so that this was a pretty powerful concept for me Coming into this world. I mean it kind of it changed the way I preach it changed the way I it honestly it reshaped my entire missiology frankly. Yeah, I want to tell you guys about our sponsor for this video beam dream sleep powder They're awesome. Okay. I'm 33 years old. 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We are a word Judging people it is a small thing for even Christians to stand in judgment at the word of God And so you just have to put the stake in the ground and say I I will not have a problem passage It doesn't mean everything is equally easy to understand or even easy to digest, but when God has spoken I'm not going to consider myself morally superior to the transcendent creator of all things and how easy We slip and shove God off the throne and say actually I want to see your because I have some things thoughts about Your word and and that and that's what I that that's what we do And and again second to mythy 316 all scripture is breathed out by God and it's all profitable For teaching for reproof for correction for training and righteousness And there's there's really three perhaps more but three that I jotted down reasons We have problem passages, right passages that we just come across and and we don't like we wish we had an eraser And they were gone one we don't understand them two We don't like them. Mm-hmm. You see this especially with gendered piety Women submit to men men the responsibility to provide and to lead I don't I don't like that. I don't want that there And that's just rebellion and immaturity really or or three We might agree with it, but we know that it'll have social consequences if we actually say that we agree with it And therefore we try to distance ourselves And so that that's really what what happens with this specific issue, right with with the the slavery issue Because he here he here's the move and I've already talked about it Your talking point is of course slavery de facto is only evil always evil all the time You have to say that especially you white Christian better say that because there's a whole I got a whole bag here of things That are gonna be tossed at you if you don't right every Christian. We know that toe the line Here's the problem In the Old Testament and then it bleeds over into the New Testament God made stipulations for the institution of slavery or bond servitude or Servant hood. It's the same word. It gets it gets um complicated So if you've already like Ali bestucky did say it is only always evil all the time and then you come to that passage It's funny. That was our reading last night and family worship with my children for I think it was Exodus 21 This is interesting. Well, what do we do when we come there? What we do is we skip over it Because we don't it makes us uncomfortable. Well, if you've done that then then the game is lost It's it's like your your theology Jenga. They found one piece They pulled out and if you can flinch there well now you've now undermined all biblical authority So so that's the move that's being played and we don't want to fall into that trap No, that's exactly right and and what's I think what's interesting too as I thought about the response from all these Christians is a lot of Christians are in the process of Waking up from this liberal egalitarian fever dream that they've been living in for so long Right and but it is a process and I try to be patient with them Because you know it was a process for me But even as I came to these new convictions or this this conviction of having no problem passages There were a few like social issues you know social issues or doctrines that Had to be addressed quickly and one of them are the first one that fell for me was the homosexuality issue I was already on the board I was already on board with saying it was a sin, but I was one of those Christians who didn't want to I wanted to kind of tiptoe around it I did the apology apology apology before if I'm preaching about it and then oh And we love you and we care for you and da da da da and it's a sin But it's not just like all the other sins and you know You know do that kind of thing and I remember here in Vodibhakum. Just like destroy that way of approaching homosexuality like We don't do that with any other with other sins like like adultery. I have adulterer friends Oh, if you're an adulterer here, you're welcome here and you know what no we want you to repent and believe so that was that was the one That I really reformed quickly on was the homosexuality one the next one to fall for me was Capital punishment. I had just become like a de facto pacifist Because I I employed what I called like a god a damnable gospel philosophy Which is where you philosophize the gospel at the expense of the the actual text of Scripture, you know Well, Jesus forgives therefore we must forgive and then I just ignore all of the other very clear capital punishment passages And we're not gonna get into that today, but the third one the third big one for me I think is this issue is this issue of slavery whenever I first actually heard Pastor Wilson talking about this it was like whoa Hold on. What are you talking about? Like it's not inherently evil. It's not inherently sinful but then we did a Bible study then he went to Scripture and I was more and more convinced that oh All right. Well, here is another area where I have been conditioned by the world to Right, I mean, that's that's that's the sin at the beginning of the world to redefine good and evil for ourselves Instead of letting God define good and evil for us Yeah, well, yeah, I was gonna say I what what what sets those three things apart the first two are together The third one this issue is separate is the first two are front burner Like they are the issues in our time. That's right magistrate not wielding the sword That's right, and the sexual revolution just black mold everywhere. That's corrupting everything Romans one And so those need to be recovered quickly. Yes, and then but slavery We're we don't want slavery don't glad is gone not promoting don't want it don't want it What we but the issue as I already said is biblical authority. That's exactly right. Yeah, and that is one of the top three then Yes, that's right. That's that's that's actually the one above all of it. Yes. Yeah, and this is the the way that that is used to Undermind biblical authority. So it's it's not actually that issue itself, right? I hope it wish it would be glad if it's all gone forever but I Refused to say anything God ordained made provision for is inherently evil because that is to indict God with Promoting evil. That's exactly right. And so and so then the question becomes all right We have no problem passages. So how do we deal with the slavery issue? And this is where you know, this is where we give them the old what's up presupp Argument here and we say, you know, they say well everyone obviously knows that slavery is inherently evil It is inherently obviously everyone knows that it is inherently sinful for one image bearer Or if you're an atheist human being to own another no, it's still image bearer if you're an atheist you're exactly right What am I talking about? That was a test. I was testing you liberal. You passed the test pass the first. Oh, that was good That was quick You know, you know Okay, so if you call a dog's tail a leg, how many legs does a dog have if you tell what if you call A dog's tail a leg. Let's say we call his tail a leg How many legs does he have? How many legs? Oh, I see four legs four legs. Yeah, that's right. Okay. That's good. That's good I don't I would have felt really stupid if I got that wrong here. The more kids you have the more dad jokes you need But of course we get to ask the question the I mean the trump card question By what standard do you say that owning another human being is inherently sinful? Please? Tell me atheists. Please. Tell me agnostic with no standard. Please. Tell me by what standard because If you're going by social consensus, then you have no objective standard by which to Accused anyone of anything evil much less, you know this idea that owning another human being is sinful. So if you had polled everyone You know 200 years ago, everyone would be against you So by what standard are you saying that owning another person is evil? And of course the whole premise of this episode is that it's all about biblical authority we stand firm on the word of God and Scripture particularly in the Old Covenant does in fact regulate and condone Some for a version of slavery or we could say a particular type of slavery and that's important We'll get into that here in just a second and even the word condone is important because some people say no the Bible doesn't condone slavery It does condone it condone doesn't mean gives a stamp of approval woohoo. We're so happy about it. It's the best possible thing It's it's the way things were always meant to me. That's not what condone means But it does give tacit approval Particularly in the Old Covenant it was and not only that but God gave slaves as gifts like it We just have we can't run away from these brought quote-unquote problem passages, right? It's part of the story It's part of the story and God is wise and again We have to come humbly and these aren't easy waters to go into now That's why you have to come humbly with your Bible wide open And with a mature desire to really understand what God has said Understanding that's the you're here in the map, but what's the trajectory of the gospel over time? But anyways, I'm getting ahead. No, no, yeah, that's no that's exactly right Well, so I'm gonna give just a couple of examples just to drive the point home for for anyone because there was a lot of people Looking for clarity. There's a lot of Christians out there who Actually like what we do who follow what I do and they were like, I'm just confused like I trust you But I'm just confused and so that person I'm eager. Yes have a conversation with absolutely as the saying goes if somebody's intent on Understanding work more words only makes it worse That's right. I'm not worried. I'm not worried about that person Five clips from here that they got and God bless you. Yeah, right, but this person. Yeah, I get it That's why Bible studies are important. Yeah, and so we're not gonna go deep into the weeds on this but I'll just give a tertiary kind of flyover view here the Bible it does condone and regulate slavery particularly and You know, it's not in obscure passages in Leviticus guys And I got this little gym from Pastor Wilson at church because by the grace of God, you know I had my slavery kerfuffle and Pastor Wilson was preaching at our church and I came up afterwards and I was like hey pastor Wilson Whoopsy Cuz I actually put his video it like I didn't even I wasn't even the one making the case I brought his video in to make the case for me So I went and talked to him and I asked him like hey, first of all, I'm right, right and he's like, yeah You're definitely right. This is what the Bible teaches and I was kind of asking for some wisdom on how best to respond And and he gave me this wonderful little gym And it was that if you're dealing with good faith Christians who are willing to do a Bible study And we can all agree that the Word of God is our ultimate authority What what are we trying to get back in classrooms, what are we trying to get back in our courthouses? What are we the 10 commandments the 10 commandments slavery is not just regulated and condoned in little obscure Verses in Leviticus and even if it was that would be enough But it's the 10 commandments like verse 4 specifically regulates that you are to give a Sabbath to your slaves And I know some people are going to say well in this translation It says servant or in this translation it says bond servant or this or that Guys, it's all the same Hebrew word all of it ebed or evad And so it that's where I get a little complicated in the exegesis But so the fourth commandment tells us how to treat slaves and so does the 10th the 10th commandment Thou shalt not covet one of the things you're not supposed to covet is your neighbor's slaves um, and I This is where we've got to Delineate and distinguish between two different kinds of slavery and there's many different forms But I'm going to say biblical slavery versus pagan and the pagan just covers everything else Because um, because there's a lot of different forms of slavery out there. Um, but because I got places to go Yeah, that's right. Yeah, that's right. We got places to go And so we're just we're just going to talk about those two Those two types of slavery and um something that's really problematic that I saw even in the debate with Ali Bastaki And that I've seen other apologists make this move. This is really not good. This is really It doesn't help your case whenever you say in the old covenant in the old testament It was just bond-servant slavery That does not help your case because it's not true. It's not that there was a kind of bond-servant slavery um, and really the bond-servant slavery is When you hear the word slavery It looks nothing like that. Um, it looks like bond-servant slavery. It was it was basically an economic arrangement where they were even paid They were the property they did they were owned by a master Uh, so that's where the ownership piece comes in which was my original thesis that it's not inherently evil for one image Which is credit card debt today. Yes, you know, that's yeah, no, that's exactly right. That's exactly right um And so yeah, it was an economic arrangement And they they would actually be paid earnings to the point where if they the in Leviticus It says if the if that slave becomes rich enough and enriches himself enough He can buy himself out of slavery. He can pay off his debt He can pay off the bond-servant Um, or or we get to the year of jubilee where they're set free. So there's that so there is a bond-servant type of slavery But the problem is there's also another kind of slavery. That is not bond-servant slavery. Namely in Leviticus 25 Um, that talks about foreign slaves that you can pass on to your children. Okay, so this is a different type of slavery altogether This is um, it's still not the kind of slavery that you would think of with the transatlantic slave trade Which is more race-based slavery um and But it still was a type of slavery where there would be prisoners of war there would be um different situations They could sell most often was the case they would sell themself into slavery or there'd be prisoners of war that sort of thing and they would become property of Of an israelite and they could pass those the the slaves down to their children and So let me just break this down really quickly because I want you to not I want to really distinguish that Even the kind that's not the bond-servant slavery the other kind of slavery I really want to distinguish that from what you tend to think of with the american uh transatlantic slave trade type of system because often you're picturing three things kidnapped with no rights And abused like those are the things there may be some other things that come into your mind But those are three things that tend to come into your mind. Um, and all three of those are explicitly created By the old covenant law by the old testament law and I'll do you know what the penalty should have been for someone who steals a man? The death sentence the death penalty and yet we're too moral to have the death sentence. That's right That's right. That's a great irony and we would say yes and amen all the word of the lord proves true That's exactly right and I'm going to rattle off these three texts just to show you just to show you my work here. Um, you know, uh, so uh, so And the point is to get across that the america or the biblical slavery system was actually a Incredibly compassionate system that was for the betterment of everyone involved. Like that's that's that's why it existed and And we'll get to well we'll get there in a second So kidnapped deuteronomy 21 16 whoever steals a man and sells him And anyone found in possession of him Shall be put to death. Oh, did you have that? Sorry about that. What I stepped on your toes. I didn't realize you had that Oh, no, that's no, that's great. But that that last piece is actually very important because So let's say, you know, someone gets man stolen that gets kid. They get kidnapped Now even the person who's found in possession of him is liable to the death penalty That means that if you were if you were a slave master You had to make sure that when you went to go to us, uh to to purchase a slave That they were not that they were the type of person who either sold themselves. They likely in almost every circumstance They sold themselves into slavery. Um for economic reasons, but uh, but you had to make sure that they weren't stolen that they weren't kidnapped Because you were now liable for and you and you could face the death penalty for not doing your due diligence there So there's the kidnapped piece second one with no rights deuteronomy 10 19 says to love the sojourner there Uh, love the sojourner therefore for you were a sojourner in the land of egypt and later I didn't put this one down actually. I should have but um in leviticus. I think it's 24 you guys can Look this up, but it actually um over and over again all throughout the law um, the law of moses says to treat And if this is actually you would think upside down It says to treat your brother as you treat the sojourner your brother who's enslaved as you treat the sojourner So there's for the stranger in your land including a stranger who is enslaved You are to treat them with utter respect and kindness compassion and uh, and you are to treat them as an image bearer of god Um, and not and we know this because we you go on to exodus and this is the last one A lot of people will say well, you were just allowed to abuse your slaves and I'll pull up a passage in exodus 21 Which I didn't put that one down But it's a few verses I think it's 21 like 23 or 24 that talks about if you strike your servant and he dies Then you are to be punished, but if he does not die Then uh, it doesn't say you're not to be punished. It just I can't remember exactly what it said Um, but the key word there is if you strike your slave and he dies The word punished there is the death penalty. Okay, so you receive the death penalty for taking the life of your slave Um, and then it goes on a couple of verses later in verse 26 And it says when a man strikes the eye of his slave Male or female and he destroys it He shall let the slave go free because of his eye if he knocks out the tooth because of a slave the male or female He shall let the slave go free because of his tooth. So right there That is nothing like, you know, the transatlantic slave trade Not at all the horrors of of frederick douglas if you read his his biography, which I have. Yeah, it's it's not at all that um, so so so that is The the apologists are right to say that slavery in the old testament in the old covenant was different than your picturing That's an important thing to make but the thing that remains the same Is getting back all the way to the beginning with ali bestucky's original statement Which was that it is inherently evil or sinful for one person to own another the bible just does not say that Right and again, the whole point is to be able to excuse sexual sin. Yes. Yeah, that's right That's the whole if I could get you to say that then you can't Um, hold the bible. Um, yeah, you can't bring me to account for that. No, that's exactly right. That's exactly right Um, and so so that's why and so that's why I did this episode of last week was because We cannot we cannot be moved off of the word of god. We cannot be embarrassed about it Not one single passage We cannot because if we move off one like you said at the beginning if if they can take that one brick out The whole thing starts to fall apart. Yeah. Yeah, and and um, and also I think I I want to say It doesn't mean we're not all bibles of scholars and you don't have to understand But understand what you aren't in the position of being defensive So many christians just assume well explain how that makes sense You don't have to yeah, it's the word of god. Yeah, so you say God has spoken. Of course, it's When it's properly understood by maybe someone smarter than I it's it's right. Um, roman's nine the biggest question ever About god's predestination and his election of his people and our responsibility our ability This is the deepest theological waters ever and what's paul's first response Who are you to question god? Like how dare you question the integrity of god? And so that needs to be just our our default is not defensiveness It's who would I ever be to question the word of god? Even when I don't understand Every bit of it genesis 12 when abraham Tricks pharaoh and then leaves and he's given female servants and and the slaves And uh, bouncing all these things we don't go We say It's the word of god. I don't understand all of it, but god is always wise and true So in first Timothy 4 8 the apostle paul tells us that physical training is indeed valuable for the christian life And while physical fitness is not the most important thing in the christian life It is still of great importance particularly for men Why because god has called you to protect and to provide men you are called to be protectors Therefore god is calling you to be strong spiritually emotionally and yes, even physically Physical fitness is also important because god has called you to provide Your family needs you to live a long healthy life. 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Listen, it's never too late to start Joe garacy with backwards planning financial works hard to help families achieve their financial goals He's a christian who works with one of the largest and most trusted financial service companies in the world Whether you have millions in assets or you're just now getting started investing Joe garacy can help you reach your financial goals visit backwards planning financial.com or Called joe garacy at 615-767-2555 No, that's that's exactly it. And so before we finish up with some practical application I want to kind of tie this up in a bow and give you My my take I think our take on how do we How do we think through the slavery issue in light of the new covenant? And I think that's really important So we I kind of we did we gave you some something to grab onto of how you know There are different forms of slavery and we're not justifying the evils that happened Um, the man stealing that went on and the transatlantic slave trade and all that stuff Um, but this is an important category that really Has a lot of explanatory power Um, or actually several different issues that you that you might be thinking through And it's this category that i'm calling sub-creational So sinful versus sub-creational inherently sinful versus sub-creational now this principle comes to us from matthew 19 Where our lord is talking about Uh Divorce he's talking about marriage and divorce And you know, we don't need to necessarily get deep into the weeds on on that But uh, basically the two different camps are coming to to get um Get his take trying to trap him really but on on uh, when it's okay for a man to divorce his wife And basically we don't we're not coming we're not making a judgment on that passage in this in this one here but in this episode But the the phrase he uses is um Moses permitted you to have a divorce for these reasons But from the beginning it was not so yeah, that's good Okay, and so when we say from the beginning when our lord says from the beginning it was not so he's saying that The law of moses permitted and regulated these sub-creational realities It wasn't you were permitted to get a divorce back then But this was not what god intended. It's sub-creational. You could divorce somebody lawfully, but it still wasn't good Right. This is a reality in a fallen world. Yes. That's right. That's exactly right. And so um, it was lawful But it was sub-creational Okay, uh, and and there's and there's a few other issues that actually fall squarely in that category in my view I think we could say the polygamy issue isn't it? We talked about this recently how um, Polygamy is very clearly a sub-creational reality because genesis one is the blueprint For how things were supposed to be right and even an elder has to be the um a one-woman man Exactly, which brings us to really the climax is we've got the the creation order that gets tainted by sin And then we've got these sub-creational realities that god regulates throughout the old testament And then we have our lord jesus christ the the second atom who comes to recreate creation right to recreate the cosmos And and with the advent of the coming of our lord the second atom Well, then those sub-creational realities begin to dissipate and you'll notice like even Uh, the church has historically let's take polygamy. It's it basically Went away entirely in christened them. It was gone because that was a sub-creational reality We see the the echoes or we see the the directional element of that with uh, the what you just mentioned Which is the qualification for elders. Um, but then I think that the the slavery issue falls squarely into that We know jesus christ came to remake creation and to bring his kingdom here on earth as it is in heaven And from the beginning you were not born enslaved to one another You were born free in covenant with your god And so when christ comes he doesn't come and abolish slavery immediately and same in philemon He doesn't just go ahead and abolish slavery right then and there But all of the seeds the the mustard seed as he said of the kingdom that grows up over time All of the seeds the new creation the recreation seeds start to flourish and as the gospel penetrates Peoples and cultures polygamy goes away slavery gets abolished Why because it is for freedom that I've come to set crisis come to set us free stand firm Christians like william wover force that's exactly right and he used the bible for that cause that's right And he used the bible to justify abolishing slavery, right? Um, right and so and so this is all very key and so I think that that category really Helped me make sense of some of this that element that there is something that can be sub-creational yet lawful But over time with the advent of christ those things can then become unlawful as things As things progress as the new creation kind of takes root in all these places And even unlawful might might be too far. I probably actually wouldn't go that far. I'll I'll keep the sub-creational language And and and perhaps not say sin sinful per se, but sinful in many circumstances I think we could say positively a fruit of the gospel taking deep root in a people as this goes away then Yes, right and that's that's enough to be said. Um, and Yeah Well, why don't you lay on the plane for us pastor brooks with some pastoral exhortations and practical application for us as we uh As we go about our days not enslaving people. Yeah Nor wanting nor desiring to and not wanting to be enslaved to sin or technology or anything Well, yeah, what in a final note on that there are there are we're all slaves according to the apostle paul, you know Yeah, um, I think I just want to piggyback on on um, what you just said as far as Trying to to understand Some of these things we have to understand it in light of the entire story And and the whole story is to get glory to jesus christ for the transformative power that he has Over his people and the way that that then starts to flesh out in their actual life together People will see your good works and give glory to to your father the actual earthy realities that change because christ is now our lord And again, I think the the ending of slavery is a no-brainer here. Um, and you already Mentioned it, but but philemon. It really is a glorious Test case of what this actually looks like in real time finally even won 16 and 17 So he's he's telling him to receive anisimus back. Um, no longer as a bond servant Now he was coming back technically As a bond servant, but how do you receive him? How do you view him no longer as a bond servant? But more than a bond servant as a beloved brother Especially to me But how much more to you both in the flesh and the lord? So if you consider me your partner receive him As you would receive me and so it's not a sledgehammer to the whole institution Because that is law law law law, right the law is not bad when he's lawfully we know about that but rather um an appeal to A christian man whose heart is being transformed by the gospel and what does love require now in this dynamic? Grow up into that more and more and paul says treat this bond servant now as if it was paul coming to you How would you treat me? That's how you and how what exactly to do over five years 10 years, you know, whatever Obviously that's going to transform the entire community which is and then gets glory to christ for that work Um, and so that's why we can not just apologize for it, but celebrate The maturity of the church and what christ has done to make a a formerly Barbarous people in some pockets Or just immature and others grow up more and more Into a people who have been formed by by the gospel That's so good. That's so good. I would say also just to even add on to that is First grant the in 1613 you are commanded brother Particularly men but everyone to some degree but men uh to be watchful To stand firm in the faith and where do we get the faith? We get it as delivered in the word of god stand firm in the faith. No problem. Passages. No problem. You're telling any of it Exactly and then so be firm stand Be watchful stand firm in the faith act like men be strong and let everything that you do be done in love This is a call to man up stand on the word of god be bold be courageous everywhere everywhere since Since the assassination of charlie kerr people that are waking up. I am getting messages left and right. Let me tell you guys as a quick Just exhortation encouragement I used to be as I said earlier. I used to be the winsome christian who was trying to You know, let him know how much I care before they care how much I know a kind of person um Instead of just standing firm on the word of god and saying what's true and I have received so many messages Um through my social medias of people who have been thanking me for particularly on the lgbt issue. Yeah, um for not Like going soft on this for going and I don't I say we don't we shouldn't even call it homosexuality We should call it sodomy. We should focus on the behavior. Um, this this is ruining lives It absolutely is ruining lives and we need to stop pretending that you know, we need to just be you know Coddling this sin in our midst. No, we need to treat it like we treat adultery We need to treat it like we treat any other sin and I've had so many people say thank you I know the darkness. I have lived in this world this lg tv trans blender world for long enough to know How dark it is and I wish that there had been more people in my life That would speak that spoke about it like you speak about it because maybe just maybe it would have kept me from going down this dark path Um, and in fact, oh, what my favorite thing that one of the guys said to me is he said I started listening and it really upset me I was very offended, but then I kept listening. I don't know why but I kept listening and as I kept listening I realized what what was going on. It was offensive to my flesh, but not to my spirit. It was healing to my spirit We must not We must stand firm on the word of god. We cannot move an inch We cannot budge an inch and that's why this whole slavery conversation is important not because I get it It's annoying to bring up like I it's one of those things that ruffles feathers I I know that and I don't talk about it often, but it came up in the culture and it was an important moment to say Right. Look go ahead pastor. Well. Yeah, I was going to say it's we're not the one who's going to bring it up The whole point of this is it's going to be brought up Against you right to say to and then the temptation everything we've said is going to be the back pedal And then the game's lost. That's exactly right. Yeah. Well, I know you got to get going. I did two pastor brooks Would you leave our people here with a blessing and a prayer? Yeah, sure. I'd love to pray Father we come to you and and and we confess that In our own sin and even in our own fear We can be a people who do not tremble at your word. We can think ourselves wiser than god And so I pray for all the hearers now that they would have a fresh resolve to be a people Who who with contrition and with humility of heart tremble at the word of god We have a book that god almighty Wrote gave to us concerning things of salvation as we thank you for that. I pray that you would Make us a a courageous people and a people Who are known for our our joy and our gladness? In christ and how that manifests in our life together. We pray it in jesus name Amen, and the lord bless you and keep you and make your face to shine upon you and be gracious to you May the lord lift his countness on you and give you peace Amen, amen God bless you guys as you well know my hope and prayers that you would be equipped to build Defend and expand the kingdom of our lord jesus christ