Speaker 1Yo, welcome to the show. I'm your host Gunnar Olsson and joining me in Studio A at the Thrifty Traveler World Headquarters in Minnesota. It's Thrifty Traveler Chief Global Executive Editor Kyle Potter. Kyle, welcome to the show. Where's Studio B? Studio B is in progress right now. It's being built. Yeah, it's everywhere else in the office. What happens in there? I don't know. That's for our next spinoff podcast. All right. Today, Kyle, we're talking about the points and miles deals that are probably too good to last. They're the deals that we refuse to gatekeep from our fellow travelers. So we're just going to lay them bare for everybody to book while they still exist for us all. Along those lines, Kyle, I want to find something out. Do you have any travel tips or hacks that you've gatekept over the years? I want you to swing the gate open. Let's figure out what is left out there to get to people. Just travel hacks. I'm not talking about the deals yet. Just what are the travel tips you have?
Speaker 2This is going to be a terrible answer and a bad start to a podcast. I don't think I do. I think that's kind of our ethos here is that we share every tip that we can. We share every deal that we can. So I don't know. Maybe if you have something that will unlock something for me, but I got nothing. I think I've shared everything I know.
Speaker 1I have one and I have talked about this before, but not at length. So it's not. And that's not a satisfying answer to this question either. Great. And I don't talk about it a ton because it is illegal. But the BYO boarding drink, the to-go cocktail from the lounge where you take your last drink, you take your last champagne and you put it in your coffee cup and then you can just bring it through the terminal and onto the plane. That's how you get a boarding drink in economy. You are not allowed to drink alcohol you brought on board, but it's nice to have a little boarding drink.
Speaker 2I don't talk about it a lot because it's illegal is going down in TT lore forever. What are they going to do? Somebody's going to storm into Studio B. Three weeks from now and arrest you.
Speaker 1Okay. Today on the show, we're talking about Alaska's really positive change to its Atmos program. We're talking about Southwest lounges and we're breaking down the points and miles flight deals that are just too good to last. All that and more. Greetings from Lauterbrunnen, Switzerland. Welcome back to the Thrifty Traveler podcast. Welcoming us back this week was Sherry in Switzerland. The Lauterbrunnen Valley is one of the most magical places on earth. Kyle, my wife and I spent a week in Murin several years ago. It was our first trip abroad together, the Swiss Alps, but particularly that valley are out of this world. I really, really love this video from Sherry. Thank you for sending it in. Let's get into something hot and cold. A look at the good and bad news out there for travelers. And we'll start with something hot. Kyle, the on some airlines, the only thing harder than adding a lap infant to your reservation is actually raising that infant. And we have a rare case in which Alaska probably went from worst to first on this. Every airline has a different policy and mechanism for doing this. This is particularly when you're adding a lap infant to your reservation. So you're not buying them a seat. You just want to add the infant that you're going to have screaming on your lap for as long as the flight takes. Typically, some airlines charge like a percent of the cash fare. That's kind of the norm for the most part for the foreign airlines. Some charge, it's just a flat 5,000 mile fee like Air Canada does, which is a pretty customer-friendly policy. Some airlines like now Alaska just charge the taxes and fees. For a long time, Alaska's policy was really infuriating. You couldn't add an infant online at all. They got, you know, their website would just explicitly tell you, we don't do infant award tickets. You would have to call and figure it out. And then someone would tell you what you're going to pay once you were on the phone. Now it's just the taxes and fees for all bookings, books with Alaska Atmos. The big change is it used to be just for Alaska and Hawaiian operated flights. And now it's for all partners too.
Speaker 2So whether you're using Alaska miles to fly Alaska or Hawaiian out to Hawaii or Cathay Pacific to Hong Kong or Qatar airways to the Middle East.
Speaker 1Yeah. Yeah. It's a really, really, really great update to this program. I should shout out that Ben at One Mile at a Time discovered this last week, but yeah, all of the partners being involved is really good. This is just really, exciting news for someone who uses Alaska Atmos all the time and also a father in that order. But what do you think, Kyle? What do you think about this new change?
Speaker 2Is that how you think of yourself holistically? A consistent user of Alaska Atmos, but also a father? Yeah. Where does podcaster fit in that list? Third. Yeah, that's good. Okay. Yeah. This is, this is amazing news to the point you've made. It is just a crapshoot as to whether the airline that you're booking through has an easy way or a cheap way to add a lap infant or have a way at all, which Alaska for most of the last decade and change fit under the latter portion of that. So this is great. Taking the guesswork out of it, I think is the biggest thing. I do wonder if, because it can be such a technological hurdle to get this done, that if they were just like, well, you know what? We're going to do it free.
Speaker 1We're good. You're good. Yeah, I think so. And also, you know, they had to basically start because they started flying their own long haul international flights just recently. They probably had to start from scratch on a policy and realize we probably need a policy here. And why don't we just make it the most customer friendly one possible? I love it. It's a really, really great decision from them.
Speaker 2I do think a big piece of it was probably just, this was the easiest way, even if it isn't the most profitable. I also think that airlines, the best airlines find creative ways to give people that extra little surprise and delight or a reason to engage more with their mileage program. Airplane has been like the hallmark of this, of just like having these little things that you can do with that program to add several stopovers on the same ticket, for example, or do multi-city trips and multi-leg trips without raising the cost. This is, I think, kind of in that vein too, where you're giving parents a reason to pay close attention to this program. And you know what? If you end up, if you have a lap infant going on your first trip to Europe, that means two years from then or a year from then, you're probably going to be paying for that child to join you on your next trip. And now you have a great feeling about it. And I think that's a really, really good thing. about the experience you had booking with Atmos. So I think this is a pretty savvy way to approach
Speaker 1this. Yeah. Atmos is already the best. It's just another great way to get some value when you're flying as a young family. All right. What's the worst one that you've dealt with, if not for Alaska? At the beginning, it was probably Alaska just because there was almost nothing that you could do. The worst one that I've dealt with sometimes just when you're booking with partners, it's always a little tricky. It's kind of a cop-out answer because it is a lot of them. You're reaching out to an airline who tells you you need to talk to the other airline who tells you go back to the first one. And then you're bouncing back and forth trying to find an agent who could actually help you. Usually it just takes a few extra calls and you can get it done. But yeah, I think Finnair was the one where I was worried I was going to have to pay 10% of the cash price. And then I just got an agent who just charged me the taxes and fees. I still don't understand why that happened. But that one was a nice little surprise and delight. So I haven't had any horrible experiences so far, but we still got a year to go. Yeah. Still got time. All right, Kyle, let's pivot to something cold. I want you to picture this. It is 2016. A US airline has announced its new plan to attract new customers and maintain their loyalty by opening a series of airline lounges at some of its major hub airports. To go with it, the airline has announced a premium credit card to give those travelers access to those lounges. It's a pretty familiar story in the airline industry. I lied about one part, Kyle. It's not 2016. It's 2026. And that airline is Southwest Airlines. That is exactly. Exactly what they announced last week, about 10 years too late, which is why it's something cold this week. Although I do like this announcement. Maybe it's unfair that this is something cold.
Speaker 2Well, I mean, I think there's something to be said about the fact that the most profitable and arguably the most innovative airline in the history of US airlines, or maybe the world, looked around and said, hey, you know what? Maybe lounges are a thing after everything that we've been through. Or hey, maybe a new premium travel credit card. We could do that. Nobody's thought of that, right? It's just really.
Speaker 1It is really funny. It is really funny. So Southwest said its first clubs are going to open in Austin, Baltimore, Honolulu, and Nashville, and they'll start opening in late 2027. Perhaps most notably in the announcement, Southwest said that it has plans for seven more lounges, bringing its total to 11 when it's all said and done. That is a pretty aggressive network to start a lounge network with. That's a lot. That's a lot of lounge space that they need to find. They're going to be operated in conjunction with Chase and its Chase Sapphire Lounge Network. I think is a really great sign for the potential quality of these lounges. First, Kyle, your thoughts on just the lounges themselves in conjunction with Chase?
Speaker 2Southwest hasn't said a lot beyond the fact that they're partnering with Chase to build these. Would I expect them to be on par with Chase Sapphire Lounges in Boston and Philadelphia and LaGuardia? Probably not. I think if only because there's a certain amount of irony here that the airline that pretty much democratized travel in the United States is now saying, we're going to create premium spaces for our most valuable and highest paying travelers, just doesn't really fit in with the Southwest DNA that we've known. But I guess it also says that the shift is official, that Southwest really is just becoming another U.S. airline. And I think that that is probably going to be a financial win for them. It's still a little bit sad. The Southwest that everybody, mostly everybody loved for the last four plus decades, that airline really doesn't exist anymore.
Speaker 1I really hope that these clubs are a little goofy and weird like Southwest is, you know, if they're just like. every other lounge that's gonna be pretty disappointing especially if you're 10 years late to the game or more in a lot of cases why don't you just make it like really unique and interesting and you know we don't need more bespoke art and design and locally curated chef inspired menu like just give me something really weird and kooky i don't know it's southwest what if in honor
Speaker 2of southwest founder herb kelleher the they only served wild turkey bourbon and they also had a specific smoking section because that if herb wanted anything that's what he would want this guy was a legendary drinker and the only thing he was more legendary than than for drinking was for waking up and smoking a cigarette the moment he woke up until he passed away like those
Speaker 1boxes in the european airports where you're allowed to just go in there and rip darts they should just have a little herb section where you get a wild turkey and a dart when you go in there herbs office southwest we're on to something here you're welcome you've got
Speaker 2two professional marketers in the room telling you how to do this
Speaker 1all right perhaps the most important part of the announcement is that there's gonna be a new southwest rapid rewards credit card from chase that'll launch in 2027 too there aren't many details the only one we know is that it will include lounge access right now their highest price card comes in at like 229 annual fee so we're presumably looking at something north of 400 is just my guess for an annual fee for the lounge credit card uh what do you think about this potential new premium card
Speaker 2i think they're gonna have to do more than lounge access to make this enticing because the entire concept of lounges is going to be so new to southwest there's gonna have to be something else here and i'm confident there will be um i think 450 at a minimum a year is probably the starting point for this um but you know i think they need to they need to get moving on shedding some light on what these lounges are actually going to be like and whether they will in fact have
Speaker 1herbs office herbs office coming to chicago midway near you what a perfect way to wrap up a weekend trip huh yeah a quick stop at herbs office on the way home outstanding southwest take our advice please do something fun with these lounges all right we need to talk about all of the award deals that are too good to last but first we're gonna take a quick break all right it's time for the extra mile where we dig a little deeper on an important travel topic and it's inspired as always by our awesome extra mile newsletter it hits your inboxes every weekday morning giving you the latest travel news deep dives and occasionally a glimpse inside the thrifty traveler team slack actually you were highlighted in this week's uh from the thrifty traveler team slack uh from your trip to china several years ago that was a good good story in there go check that one out you're gonna have to read it i can't repeat it here sign up today at thrifty traveler.com slash extra mile to get that newsletter every day all right this week on the extra mile we're spelling out the best of the best redemptions in the world of award travel it's the cream of the crop our favorites the most unbelievable deal in points and miles but here's the thing in the travel world amazing deals usually aren't long for this world because the airlines and hotels eventually realize that they're just too good this list would have been much longer a year or so ago uh and the list's probably going to be different again in in a year from now
Speaker 2this list could be dated by the time this episode comes out there's a very real possibility there
Speaker 1with these deals if you can book them before they're gone and you really should there's some of the biggest wins in award travel so this week we are we're opening the gate to thrifty traveler world headquarters we're letting you all in to see our favorite redemptions that are out there right now um and we're going to use a an important scale an important international scale here to talk about how endangered these are this is the international union for the conservation of nature scale for conservation status this is what tells you if species are extinct or endangered it's either extinct critically endangered endangered vulnerable near threatened or least concern that probably could have been a little pithier with their list but they didn't enlist our help they didn't unlike uh southwest who has now hired us on full-time as consultants it just happened it happened during the commercial break yeah okay i'm gonna start kyle um and i think this is the best deal in all of award travel right now um it is booking japan airlines business class to japan for 60 000 american airlines miles each way uh like i said i think this is the best redemption in points and miles the best bang for your buck um 60 000 is just a rate that does not make sense for a lot of these routes especially all the way from the east coast to japan um it is started to devalue already in that it used to be you could book connections on american airlines to an to a japan airlines hub all for that same 60k price now those connections are going to cost you 80k total uh so
Speaker 2flying from chicago to tokyo costs 60 000 flying from minneapolis to chicago to tokyo costs
Speaker 180 000 well put thank you um basically this just this can't last long i'm going to designate this as critically endangered i just think this this deal is so good the one thing that gives me pause on that is that it has lasted for so long already i just something must be working for both american and japan airlines to keep doing this but man this this rate is too good especially when you're flying from the u.s five dollars and 60 cents in taxes and fees completely flexible i think this is the best deal in travel right
Speaker 2now well we joked earlier about it being 2016. in southwest talking about lounges the irony here is that american airlines award chart for one world partners like japan airlines has not changed since 2016 and we've been worried rightfully so i think that it would and that it will next year you know come march or april the next time american goes through one of these cycles it's only a matter of time until that happens where you know 60 000 a rate of as low as 60 000 for a one-way in japan airlines business class becomes at least 90 or 100 but all ready i think we've seen you know them futzing with the race with these connections like you talked about but also more importantly japan airlines is just getting so much stingier with award availability like many airlines are with their premium cabins especially when allowing partners like american or alaska and others to book them i mean it used to be really easy to book you know 10 8 to 10 months in advance and you would have your pick as long as you were flexible with which hubs you could could fly from flying to tokyo or back now you know you got to be really flexible you have to be willing to jump on you know an alert that we send to our premium members where it's only departing from san diego or only from san francisco over a two-month span where there's 20 some days in there it's few and fewer and further between than it's been at any point in the last six plus years yeah
Speaker 1definitely um that is
Speaker 2my number one pick what about you cal my so i did i guess maybe i didn't understand that we were going to do these uh in order uh it doesn't have to be in order i'm just saying okay your your first option okay my first one i think is the one that i use the most probably what you use the most too which is booking delta operated flights through air france klm flying blue to be able to book a short haul flight you know 500 some miles an hour or less let's say for as low as 5 000 miles each way even if delta is charging 25 000 sky miles for that exact same delta operation flight uh to get down to mexico for as low as 14 000 miles each way um out to hawaii and back for 50 000 miles round trip when delta charges you know especially for non-stops to either maui or honolulu over 150 000 sky miles in some cases and all of these are for main cabin fares where you can pick your seat i think this is this is the best workaround in the world of point and miles to me especially for people who live in or near delta hubs where they need to fly delta and delta's own pricing can be pretty gross yeah we talked
Speaker 1about this in our starter kit episode about redeeming points and miles but this is the the most frequent way that i book flights i could probably have phrased that better if i was a professional podcaster this is the booking that i do the most often because we have to fly delta from here so often delta charges crazy high fares and really high sky miles fares so these flights are going to be very expensive and they're going to be very expensive and they're going to be very expensive and they're going to be very expensive points that i have i send them over to air france all the time to book these short hop delta flights and it's such a good
Speaker 2booking and there are so many ways to earn air france miles because you can transfer them from every single major bank from american express to capital one to chase to city to build to everything else so it's just it's so so easy to get these miles and then still book for a fraction of what delta might be charging i would put this one on our very important and probably vulnerable middle of the pack um you know i'm i don't think it's like an urgent thing that's going to happen i do think it's only a matter of time because for many many years we said that virgin atlantic flying club points were the way to book delta flights and over the last three years or so they've just chipped away at that bit by bit where you used to be able to book a one-way business class fare to europe for fifty thousand points that's gone to asia for sixty thousand points in business in delta business class that's gone they've raised award rates on all but the shortest of the shortest delta flights where even then you know they're charging seven seven thousand five hundred miles each way so you're almost always going to be better off booking through air france instead so it is only a matter of time especially after the changes we've started to see air france make this year but i'm not i'm not too worried about
Speaker 1it just yet yeah no that's a great one i really like it On to my second one. My second one is going to be. be American Airlines long haul flights bookable with AA miles that always book into main cabin. So this is a couple of different deals I've kind of thrown into one. I'm cheating a little bit. Usually it's like 42,000 American Advantage miles round trip or less in some cases to Europe, for instance, on American flights. And those books straight into the main cabin. When you book with AA miles, they do not sell you basic economy dot, dot, dot yet, which is why this is on our, which is why I'm considering this perhaps threatened here. I think that'll be near threatened is the distinction I'm giving this one, that rate, that 42,000 mile rate. I don't think that rate is necessarily going to go up. What I think might happen over time is that they just allow you to book basic economy at that rate, at that rate. And then they've kind of raised the price on the main cabin, but we've seen this. It's, it's usually when the sale happens, 70,000, AA miles round trip to Japan, 75,000, AA miles round trip to Bangkok. We've seen that deal pop up several times. Again, this is all usually in the main cabin, especially those Asia routes are usually flying Japan airlines, which probably has the best economy class in the world. I think you would say. So main cabin is just the big factor here. I think that someday American airlines is going to come to their senses and start charging for basic charging, basic economy for these lowest rates, which really stinks. Right now, I love that they only let you book into the main cabin.
Speaker 2The, the two things I really love about this one are one, when we see these rates, like 42,000 miles round trip to Europe, sometimes less, it is so widespread. It's across, you know, six plus months of the calendar often, you know, as far as 10 or 11 months in advance, so you can plan a trip around this. And it's not just from Philadelphia and Charlotte and Chicago, you know, some of America's biggest nonstop hubs to Europe, but from airports nationwide, whether you need to take one connection, or in some cases, two from a tiny airport. And two, in almost every single case that I can remember, you can book these separately as one ways for 21,000 miles each way, sometimes less, which if you're struggling to piece together a trip, the value of that is just massive. Yeah, absolutely. Okay, what's your next one? My next one is one that we talked about at our live show in Minneapolis, and people, we're so concerned about saying this out loud, they tried to shush me on the stage. It is flying to Europe from one airport in the United States for 15,000 miles each way, and minimal taxes and fees. It's using Virgin Atlantic Flying Club points to fly either Air France or KLM. And from almost every airport in the country where either of those airlines operate, they'll charge you as low as 15,000 miles, in some cases, 12,000 miles. And then they'll charge you, you know, 15,000 miles each way from the East Coast. But like 160, even $200 in taxes and fees for the one way to Europe and like 400 on the way back. And there's one airport that's an exception to this, which is our home airport of Minneapolis, St. Paul International, where it is a $5.60 tax and fee for a one way flight flying either Air France or KLM to Amsterdam or Paris. And for a round trip, it's typically in the neighborhood of the United States. And it's a one way flight flying either Amsterdam or Paris or connect onward basically anywhere in Western Europe for the same amount of miles. And in some cases, a couple dollars more in taxes and fees. This is one of the best deals in travel period. And we have been worried about this one disappearing for as long as I can remember. And we've been sending this alert when we can find availability to our premium members for like seven years now. And it's still there. So I don't know where this sits on on our rankings. It's probably somewhere in the neighborhood of endangered. But this is so good. I vividly remember talking to one of our premium members who said he had booked this redemption from Minneapolis to anywhere in Europe, flying Air France or KLM using Virgin Atlantic flying club points, like eight times round trip. It's incredible. I think the day I started here at thrifty
Speaker 1traveler, like five years ago, I thought that this was its days were numbered. I thought this was probably coming to a close. I think you all were talking about like, Oh, well, this deal is not going to last much longer now. And it just, for some reason has eluded virgins purview in a way that makes no sense at all. This should not exist. But take advantage if you can, especially if you live anywhere near MSP, or you can easily position MSP. This is a really, really good deal to save on those taxes and fees is huge. I mean, it could be the difference between you taking the trip and not.
Speaker 2I mean, there are so many economy redemptions that are in the same neighborhood of points, you know, somewhere between 12 and 20,000 miles for a one way. So 24 to 40,000 round trip, but you get hit with $500 or more in taxes and fees, which might be pretty darn close to what it is to just buy that cash fare. And this is a massive exception from one airport. We are just so lucky that we have this one.
Speaker 1Yeah. If you need proof that we are not gatekeeping the best deals, this is the deal that impacts us the most as MSP residents. And we're giving it to you. We're giving it to you. So go take advantage while it still exists. My third one, Kyle, I'm using Alaska Atmos to book short haul American Airlines flights. The shortest ones you can get for 4,500 Atmos each way in economy or just 9,000. Each way in first class on American Airlines. I would consider this vulnerable. I've gotten so much value out of this. I use it for short hops to Chicago all the time from MSP for 4,500 in economy. I've done it actually for a flight, two flights coming back from Chicago this fall, where I just booked us in the first class because first class was still so much cheaper than economy on Delta using points and miles. And we needed the extra bags because we're bringing the infant along. I've used it for like slightly longer flights. I've used it for like, you know, two flights to Phoenix as well. I just think especially that first class redemption, just 9,000 miles each way is a crazy value. But I think Alaska is pricing these just a little too low, maybe for Americans liking, which is why I think this is possibly vulnerable. But this Alaska program to book American flights is so, so good.
Speaker 2It's a really good one. I am really jealous of people that have much more flights on American Airlines than what we do. Yeah, I mean, it's a really good one. I mean, it's a really good one. We basically have Chicago and Dallas and Phoenix and Charlotte. And that's kind of it. I mean, if you live in an American Airlines hub, you're probably paying exorbitant in many cases, advantage mileage rates for just quick domestic trips, you're probably just booking with cash instead. But if you can earn Alaska miles, this is great.
Speaker 1Yeah, seriously, if you live in Charlotte, like the airport in the US that is the most hub captive, like they are the most strangled by one airline in Charlotte. You need to be making at most a major part of your points earning strategy because the savings are so good. And like I said, even on those short flights, you can get even up to first class for single digit points roundtrip. It's each way is pretty amazing. So what's your next one, Kyle, your third
Speaker 2choice? My next one, we're finally getting into hotels, and I'm going to single out the Hilton honors free night certificates, which are the single most powerful free night certificates of any airline. hotel chain, it's not even close because every other hotel chain caps what kind of properties you can book with these. Marriott has a handful where it might be as little as 35,000 points per night. It might be as much as 85,000 points per night. And then you can kick in some more points to cover the difference. And IHG, it's 40,000 points per night, I believe. And Hyatt, it's basically 15 to 20. Hilton, there is no cap. You can book any single property so long as there is standard award availability, whether that's 35,000 Hilton honors points per night for a Hilton garden in Dubuque, Iowa, or Kalala Island, a private island in the Caribbean off the coast of Nicaragua that costs, I think, 240,000 points per night. You can use your Hilton free night certificate for either of those. This is probably on the verge of going extinct. I'm surprised that raised award rates at so many properties within the last two years that they haven't taken a hammer to the free night certificate and put some guardrails around it just yet. I think it's really only a matter of time.
Speaker 1All right. I'll give it the critically endangered designation then, but you're right. This is almost extinct. Have you ever had a Hilton agent on the phone when you're calling to use your free night, like give you a pat on the back for the booking? Every single time. They always do that because they'll look at the cash price and they'll tell you at the end, like, oh, sir. By using your free night, you saved, and then sometimes they'll be like, whoa, you saved $2,600 on this free night at this hotel in Rome that you have no business staying at. I love it when they do that.
Speaker 2It's great. Sir, we see your paid stays history. You cannot afford this. Good work. Yeah. And you know what? This one stands out even more, I think, because of all of the negative changes that we've seen across the hotel landscape, specifically with points and miles in the last couple of years, where Hyatt really nuked its award chart and is even now, taking transfer ratios from Chase to Hyatt effective October 1st. Marriott prices, unless if you're in the right corners of Asia and then to a lesser extent, Australia and the Middle East are just through the roof basically everywhere. The same is true of IHG. Hilton has done this itself too, and yet there's still this option to be able to book the priciest of the pricey Hilton resorts, including SLH, Small Luxury Hotels of the World properties that may cost thousands of dollars per night in some cases. You can book a night with a free night certificate, throw in some points for another night or two, whatever you need to do in order to make it a longer stay. But having the ability to use this for the cream of the crop Hilton properties is amazing.
Speaker 1Yeah, this was the clinching point you made way back when we started this podcast. We did the Hyatt versus Hilton discussion, and you convinced me to dip my toe into the Hilton ecosystem. This uncapped free night is so, so valuable. I've gotten so many awesome hotel stays out of it in the years since you've convinced me to do that. So really good one there. Critically endangered Hilton's uncapped free night certificates. My fourth choice, Kyle. I've got a one world, very American Airlines theme in mind, I realize now, but booking American Airlines to the Caribbean for between 9,000 and 20,000 American Airlines miles round trip, especially from the East Coast and the Southeast, if you're making those connections through Miami, sometimes get incredibly cheap, like 9,000 round trip from a lot of these places. The prices are super low. And even for peak season, they really don't raise rates that much during the peak season months, especially if you can book out in advance. But this is a flight deal that our team at Thrifty Traveler Premium finds all the time. We always send it out. And it's just one of those things that always makes you think like, man, before you shell out 60,000 Delta Sky miles for one ticket, you could book the whole family. For using your AA miles, AA miles to the Caribbean and Mexico is one of the best values in all of award travel. I would call this near threatened. I don't think it gets as much hype as some of these other redemptions do. So maybe AA hasn't caught on to what a good deal they're giving people quite yet. But I think if this is one that you can take advantage of, especially if you can book a few months out in advance, you can get peak spring break, peak Christmas break using some of these really, really cheap redemptions. And I highly recommend that you do.
Speaker 2My wife and I flew home from Antigua a couple falls ago. And at the time, despite the fact that it was toward the start of the peak season for going to that corner of the Caribbean, it was 8,000 advantage miles each way to get home. I didn't have advantage miles at the time, so I had to book through Finnair Avios. But I was like, man, that is. And the cash prices were still quite high. I mean, it was more than $500 a piece for that exact same one way flight from Antigua through Miami back to Minneapolis. There are so many flights to the Caribbean through Miami and to a lesser extent, Dallas, that I would say that this is either near threatened or just like not even a concern at all, because it's all about supply and demand. And there are so many flights throughout the Caribbean, even to some of the most popular islands, that I think this is a slam dunk redemption for the foreseeable future. But you should get on it if you've been thinking about the Caribbean. Figure out a plan to earn some American miles, because you're not going to get a better deal.
Speaker 1Yeah. Even the first class rates are also really low sometimes, especially if you're willing to fly early in the morning or late at night. There are some times where I was looking at some Caribbean flights and I was like, man, maybe I have to. Maybe I got to go up front for this one. But that's an awesome redemption as well. Kyle, your fourth choice.
Speaker 2I am a broken record on this, but I don't care. It truly is one of the single best redemptions in the world of points and miles for the round trip discounts that you get when using Japan Airlines Fly Partner Airlines. So as an example, you can book any one-world airline flying from the United States to Europe. Maybe it's Iberia. Maybe it's American Airlines. It'll cost you, generally speaking, 60,000 miles each way. If you book that as a round trip, it's not 120,000 miles. It is 85,000 miles because of a quirk with how Japan Airlines actually measures the distance of your flight. All that matters is the total mileage that you're flying, whether you're flying one way or round trip, including if you're booking a flight with connections. So long as they're on the same airline, it's going to price out as it's one solid trip, which just opens up this world of unbelievable possibilities. And most importantly, not just on one-world airlines like Iberia or British Airways or American, but they also have some really, really valuable one-off partnerships with Air France and Emirates. So you can fly JFK to Milan and back in Emirates business class for 5,000 miles and under $250 in taxes and fees when that exact same redemption through Emirates would cost you over 100,000 miles and close to $1,000 in fees. I cannot believe that this still works with any of these airlines. It defies logic that they would price things this way, and yet they've been doing this for not just more than a year since Japan Airlines Mileage Bank really hit the scene because banks started adding them as a transfer partner. But for as long as we know of, it's incredible.
Speaker 1Yeah. What would you give the designation here on our nature conservation scale?
Speaker 2I would put this one at endangered. I don't think it's imminent that something bad is going to happen to this, but I also wouldn't sit on it either. If you need to make a trip to Europe somewhere and you want to do it in business class, let's say, and you can just depart from the same thing and come back, you might as well take advantage of this while you can. You can transfer points to Japan Airlines Mileage Bank on a one-to-one basis from both Bilt and Rove Miles and from Capital One to Japan Airlines. It's not a one-to-one, but through the month of September, there's a transfer bonus that gets it pretty darn close. So I'm taking advantage of this pretty soon.
Speaker 1Yeah. Okay. I'm going to go with my fifth and final choice for the deals that are maybe too good to last. This one is going to be Southwest Rapid Rewards Flash Sales. So this is, again, a little bit broad, but especially for domestic flights and then also flights to Mexico. We've seen really solid flash sales for Rapid Rewards on flights to Mexico. My latest one that I booked was my flights down to Chicago to go see the White Sox Popat night. I booked a round-trip flight from MSB to Chicago Midway for 4,000 Rapid Rewards. That was. When they ran a sale, it was tied to a cash sale. They didn't say that it was going to be Rapid Rewards, but I made sure I checked the Rapid Rewards and I accidentally had 4,000 Rapid Rewards that I threw at those flights. It's an unbelievable value. More often, I see about 3,000 each way on those shortest Southwest flights. But if you're looking at 6,000 points round-trip, 6,000 Southwest Rapid Rewards, especially if you can transfer them in from Bilt or Chase, that's a really good deal. If this is too good to last or if it's just the norm, the reason why I'm giving this the designation of least concern, not close to endangered quite yet, is because with all the changes that Southwest has made, I still think being the lowest fare is their number one bullet they can fire to go get new customers. I think when they run these cash sales, so often the Rapid Rewards price is tied to it. It's not explicitly tied to it anymore like it used to be, but they run these unbelievable sales. And I just think they need the positive media attention they get from these low fares and just people bragging about how cheap they can still fly Southwest. Pricing power is and always has been Southwest's kind of number one strength. And I think that they're going to continue to offer these crazy, wacky sales, just like hopefully they open crazy, wacky lounges with smoking rooms someday. But this Southwest Rapid Rewards flash sales, I think, is my fifth choice here.
Speaker 2But I'm going to have to make a disclaimer that smoking is bad and we don't think it should probably happen anywhere, let alone in public spaces. For the bit, though, we're committed to the bit, apparently. Yeah. You know, I said earlier, I wish that there were more American Airlines flights here at our home airport. I really, really wish that of Southwest because, you know, the ability, they have so many more flights to more destinations than basically any other airline in the country, at least nonstop, right? To benefit from that with some of these sales would be incredible. We get some of it, you know, to places like Midway and Nashville and Baltimore and a handful of others. But I would just kill for, you know, a whole, you know, a couple dozen Southwest routes would be really, really fun. So for people who live in one of those big Southwest strongholds like Denver or Nashville or Chicago, you got to take advantage of these. They're some of the best deals in domestic travel, period.
Speaker 1Yeah. Signing up for Southwest sale emails is just one of the easiest things you can do to save on travel in the long run, because when they announce sales, anything other than the, when they send you one that says fares as low as $59, that doesn't mean anything. That's just their standard sale. If they send anything else with like a promo code in it, that means that prices are actually going down and it means prices are going down on all other airlines too. So a good travel hack there. Sign up for Southwest promo emails. You just got to filter out the ones that say $59 on them. That's my special travel gatekeeping hack of the day. Your fifth choice, Hal.
Speaker 2Fifth and final, we're going back to Japan Airlines. This is what I'm going to be this week. British Airways has really still bucked the trend, at least so far, and still being very liberal with award availability to book business class. The problem for most people is that it doesn't really matter because the fees that they charge are absolutely disgusting and nobody wants to pay $500 or $1,500 in cash on top of burning the miles to fly a business class seat. So flying from, in this example, from Chicago to London, British Airways itself charges $88,000 avios and about $500 in taxes and fees. Finnair avios, which you could kick over from British Airways to Finnair, you won't want to because it's that same $88,000 avios each way and $1,500 in taxes and fees. You could book British Airways with American Airlines, it's 57,500 advantage miles, a lot better, but $733 in taxes and fees. And yet. You can book that exact same flight from Chicago to London for 42,000 Japan Airlines miles and $219. So if you do some quick math, you see that you can book flights for two in British Airways business class, one way from Chicago to London for less than one passenger on either of those options. This is, I cannot believe how good this deal is. To me, this is the single best deal on this entire list, period, because British Airways. Still has a lot of award availability. So if you want to get to London or you just want to get over to Europe and you want to do it in a business class seat, this is as surefire of a bet as you can make. Now, like before, talking about booking round trip for a discount, you can do that with this too. You're going to pay more because you're going to wind up paying the departure taxes and fees from London and especially from Chicago and the East Coast. The savings aren't as significant. So it's 42,000 one way, 80,000. So you're going to have to pay a lot of money to be able to get to London and the East Coast. If you're trying to depart from Dallas or certainly the West Coast, there's going to be more significant savings on the mileage front. But even for a one-way ticket, this is amazing.
Speaker 1Yeah. I think I slammed the door mentally on British Airways a few years ago just because the taxes and fees got to be so egregious. But Japan Airlines just pried that door back open. And now it's actually a possibility for travelers all over the country, which is a really, really good thing.
Speaker 2$219. Overcharge on a one-way business class ticket to London. Other than booking with some US-operated airlines where they'll still charge you $5.60. That is as good as it gets, period. It does not get better than that. It still stinks a little bit that it's that high, but compared to paying closer to $1,000 or $700 plus, if you're trying to book a Virgin Atlantic business class seat now over to London, this one really, really stands out. Where would you put it on our scale? Before we move on? Oh, I'm going to put that one at endangered. I think at some point, the surcharges on that are going to get raised and they're going to get raised by a lot. So get in on it while you can.
Speaker 1Okay. So when we were making our list, I think we both assumed that the other would put this one on and then it kind of didn't. So now we have an honorable mention category. And that is all of the Delta SkyMiles deals that they have on new routes or pretty new routes, routes that have been around for like a month or two. The bookings have more or less just opened, but they haven't been able to fill seats at the rate they want to yet. We're talking about flights to Auckland, Taipei, Hong Kong, Brisbane, Marrakesh, as low as 25,000 SkyMiles round trip all the way to Taipei and all the way to Brisbane, all the way to Auckland. We've seen that deal go all the way to New Zealand as well. That is such a stunning flash sale. And the prices on that, if you're looking at just a price per mile, I mean, that's about as good as it gets in. Award travel. Anything you have on these kind of Delta SkyMiles and where would you rank them in terms of endangered?
Speaker 2I would just say, I think for all of the talk that we've rightfully given SkyMiles that you need to start paying attention that they're becoming much more valuable. New routes are really the common theme in almost all of the great deals that we've been seeing in the last four or five months. Delta is going to keep adding new routes. And some of these routes are now several years old, and we're still seeing great sales on them. I would put this one at as low as it goes. Least concern? Least concern. I am not concerned about this at all. Maybe at some point, the flash sales to Auckland aren't going to be as prevalent or as deep as they are. But Delta's going to add new routes for next year. There's going to be more entries on this list. It's only a matter of time before we see a flash sale to Manila in the Philippines when Delta starts flying that next year. That is going to happen. And same with whatever else they decide to add next year. So I think these are going to continue because it's clearly part of Delta's strategy, and I'm very much here for it.
Speaker 1Yeah, we've spent many hours talking about Delta SkyMiles and these amazing flash sales on the show, but I'm glad we got to honorable mention them as one of the best deals in award travel. Can we each do one that is extinct? Let's do one deal that got away, one that we loved so much and maybe loved to death. I think this one of mine is definitely one of those in that category. We loved it to death. We may have killed this one. We squeezed too hard. Yeah, Hawaiian first class for 26,000 Finnair obvious each way. I can definitely say we did kill this one. We found out about this and started sending it to our premium members. And then some other people in the points and miles world found out about this too, and sent it to all their members. And then all of a sudden, Finnair wised up and stopped charging an incorrect price for their first class flight. So what was what was happening was Finnair was charging the premium economy rate for Hawaiian first class. high flat business class seats, uh, flying over to Honolulu. Um, they did eventually wise up and now the best deal is to book with Alaska Atmos for 40,000 miles each way, which is still an incredible deal for that flight, especially. But, um, yeah, unfortunately that one had to come to an end. 26,000 finner obvious each way was too good to be true and it had to end eventually.
Speaker 2Right. Yeah. Well, and nobody should be surprised by that. We certainly weren't. And, you know, I think it's tempting to say, well, you guys killed the deal and you know what? Fair. We probably did. But at the same token, if you're looking at some of these things and you say to yourself, wow, that's an amazing deal. How is that real? That should be your mental signal that you should go out and book that now, because at some point too many people are going to book it or the airline will catch their mistake or the airline will just realize, you know what? We can probably get away with charging a significant amount of additional miles than what we're currently doing. They're going to do those things, whether we write about them, or we send them to our premium members or somebody else writes about it, or time just goes on. All of these workarounds are going to close at some point. You got to get in it while the getting is good.
Speaker 1Yeah, definitely. What's yours?
Speaker 2One that got away. Mine is booking a and a business or first class using Virgin Atlantic flying club points. This was, and somehow still is like the ultimate example of how valuable points can be in the number of influencers that we still see to this day talking about, oh, you can fly a and a's the room for 52,500 points each way. It's like, yeah, you can because that award rate still exists on paper. But in practice, that award space is borderline non-existent. You might be able to find one, two dates across the entire 331 day calendar. If you're very, very lucky to book that seat, but functionally, this deal does not exist at all because a and a has gotten so stingy, with releasing award space, not just to Virgin Atlantic, but to basically every airline in the world. So yes, it is great that in theory, you can book for 52,500 miles from LA or from Chicago for 60,000 miles in a and a's the room business class or more flying first class. But finding those that are actually bookable, that doesn't really happen anymore. I think ironically, first class is maybe a little bit easier to book than even business class for what, 72,500 miles in first class and a little bit more from, you know, Chicago and the East coast. But that it's still pretty tough sledding. So I would say that this deal is functionally extinct.
Speaker 1Yeah, definitely extinct on that one, especially if you want to fly, not alone. If you want to book two passengers, you're not going to be able to find a and a, the room. And that is still the number one social media influencer misdirection that is out there. So many influencers out there who are saying, you know, here's exactly how to use your Amex points. This is the deal that you're going to get. And it just doesn't work like that,
Speaker 2unfortunately. Well, and you know, they'll point out, well, there's a transfer bonus available at the time, let's say of 30% from American express or chase to Virgin Atlantic. So you can book one of the world's best business class seats to Japan for even less. You are just setting up people to transfer those points without knowing that that redemption is basically impossible. Now it's, it's really, really frustrating.
Speaker 1Okay. I think that's a good list. I'm glad we got to put everything on the endangered species scale and give people an idea for science. Yeah, this is all for science. This is very rigorous. The important work we're doing here on the podcast. Should we help a listener? Let's help a listener. Okay. Jennifer asks, Jennifer says, love the podcast. I've learned so much and laughed a lot too. What podcast is she listening to? Uh, my question is about planning a beach vacation somewhere in the Caribbean or a family of five. I want to try an all-inclusive resort, ideally using some type of points and miles or hotel free nights, but with five people, I want to try an all-inclusive resort. I want to try an all-inclusive resort, finding cheap flights matters too. So does the flight first rule still apply here? Or should I be finding resorts with a ward space that works for us first? Or do I go full sicko and research a bunch of resorts, pick a handful that would work and then wait for the flight deal to match up? So, Kyle, I think the gist of Jennifer's question here is when should you shirk the flight's first rule? When should you consider flipping it on its head?
Speaker 2I think when the accommodations are more important, that's when you start with that and then try to build backwards. So I really like Jennifer's idea of researching a handful of resorts. And then I would say then start looking at flights, see if that award space is there, and then pull the trigger on both at basically the same time. Book your hotel, book your flights, and then move on. If you can't find anything that works, yeah, you know, research a handful and then wait for the right deal to pop up. Or set some Google Flights price alerts to, you know, Antigua and Bermuda and Aruba and wherever else is on your radar. And so that when that alert comes in, you're ready to go. Double check that however you're trying to book your hotel is still going to work. Especially if you're trying to book using points. It's kind of the flight first rule with a little bit of a tweak, I think. I think it's always important to scope out the flights, even if you wind up being driven by the accommodations first.
Speaker 1Yeah, I think that's helpful for Jennifer. Katie asks us, and we have time for one more, so I'm going to squeeze in another question here. If you get a credit card with an annual fee in order to earn the welcome bonus, can you later downgrade to a no-fee card and still keep the earned bonus? That's Katie's first question. I'll get to her second question in a second. But Kyle, if you downgrade your card after you earn the bonus, do you keep the points and miles?
Speaker 2Yes, with a very important caveat that some banks are big, big sticklers about this, notably American Express. So the thing to do would be, let's say you open an American Express Platinum card or an Amex Gold card and you earn that bonus. And then the annual fee comes due. You're like, well, I don't really want to pay this for another year. What you do? What you do? What you do is you actually wait until after that fee hits your account and you pay it. And then you message American Express and you say, hey, I want to downgrade to a cheaper annual fee option, a no annual fee option, whatever you can. Then they'll prorate your annual fee. So if you cancel within a couple of weeks, you're going to pay a tiny, tiny fraction of whatever that annual fee is. The other hitch there is that you need to still have at least one card open that earns those points, no matter which bank you're dealing with here. Because if you only have one Chase Ultimate Rewards card and then you downgrade to a Chase Freedom Flex, which without a Chase Sapphire card in your wallet doesn't actually earn Chase Ultimate Rewards points, you don't have points anymore until you open another card at least. So you need to be strategic about this and you do really need to be careful because Amex in particular will claw back bonus points if you cancel too soon.
Speaker 1Yeah. In the case of airline miles or hotel points, once those points are in your account, they really don't. You don't have a mechanism to go get those back. So those ones you're pretty safe on. But yeah, be careful with the credit card ones. Katie's second question is for people who are very close listeners to the show. If you listen to our credits, she asks, are Sylvia Thomas and Kyle Thomas related? I always wonder when I hear their names during the podcast credits. Sylvia is our producer. Kyle Thomas is our video editor for this podcast. They both have the same last name, but they are not related. It is a rule, however, on this podcast. You either. You either have to be a Kyle or a Thomas to work on this show. Do you know that? How do you fit in? That makes me endangered. That's what that makes me. I don't fit in, Kyle. All right. If you want us to answer your question on the podcast, if you have any feedback for us, hit us up at podcast at thriftytraveler.com. We might feature your question on next week's show. To close the show, as always, we go on the spot and I get to put Kyle on the spot this week. You ready? Don't hit me with another gate kept travel hack. I'm out. Kyle, if you could. If you could pull one flight deal or travel hack back behind the gate, back inside the gate, what would it be? Is there one deal that got too popular that the deal died or maybe people got too into it as a travel hack or a flight deal? What would you un-gate keep if you could? What do you wish you still had for yourself?
Speaker 2Well, first of all, I just wouldn't do that. But if I had to, gun to my head, it would probably be a redemption that honestly probably should have been. Again, on our list of endangered or too good to last, which is flying Iberia business class from the U.S. to Madrid or vice versa for as low as 40,500 avios each way. Because despite the fact that Iberia has added a lot of additional U.S. and Canadian cities to its map, these have gotten a lot harder to book. And, you know, there's always going to be a piece of it is, is it just the airlines deciding they don't need to do this or is awareness just too. High and demand is too high for these things, booking, using points and people are are beating you to it. This is always on that list of any time an influencer posts about this. Anytime there is a roundup of the best ways to get to Europe in business class, this is almost always number one. And, you know, having done it a couple of times, it is an amazing deal. And I think Iberia business class is an awesome experience. But when you can book for as low as 40,000, basically 40,000 miles each way. It makes it that much better.
Speaker 1Yeah. Anything round trip for less than 100,000 miles or for two one way for less than 100,000 miles is pretty phenomenal. Really good call there. All right. Thank you so much for listening to Thrifty Traveler podcast. Rate us five stars on your podcast platform of choice. Like and subscribe to the show on YouTube. Send this episode to someone you know who needs a vacation. And if you have feedback for us, send me a note at podcast at ThriftyTraveler.com. I'd love to hear from you there. Kyle, tell us about the team.
Speaker 2This episode was produced by your favorite host who is going to be arrested on his next flight. For his personal pre-departure beverage, Gunnar Olsson, who is produced and edited by Sylvia Thomas and edited by Kyle Thomas, who are not related. Our theme music is by Benjamin Tiso. See you next week. See ya. © transcript Emily Beynon
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