No Divisions, No Scaling : A Fairer way to compete !

Introduction and Week Recap Welcome back to the Chase Pain podcast. It's been a cracking week. I've recovered from the Arnold's Fitness games, just about started to get back into the workout. I do want to thank all the listeners that listen to the Arnold Fitness games, the episodes. It means so much to me. And I know Joe, our guest today, I think you've listened to a few of the episodes as well, haven't you? Speaker 2 Yes, I have. Good man. I'm glad, Glad you. Speaker 1 Enjoyed it and I want to come on, I want to thank today's sponsors, VXS Gym, where they've been so supportive of the podcast. So if you're looking for some new decent gear, I've got their hat on today. VXS gymwhere.co.uk 10% off discount code dot DARC with capital letters. And they're fantastic business, great guys. Actually bet them for the first time at the Arnold Festival, which is really cool. So the most important thing today, Joe, our guest, the founder of the Challenger Code. Welcome, Joe. How are you? Speaker 2 I'm good. How are you? Speaker 1 Yeah, very good. I'm no, I'm really excited about today. I'm excited. And listeners, you should be excited too because we're, we're going to hear some information today that you might not know about, but it might have been things you've thought of as a competitor before or in the fitness space. Introducing Challenger Co and Its Mission And the goal we've got on the show today called Joe, founder of the Challenger Co. He's got some fantastic answers for us. So just for the listeners, Joe, just briefly just let them know what the Challenger Co is about just in a pre sentence and then we can kind of have a conversation about it. Speaker 2 Yeah. So we're a new fitness platform that's starting us out of the West Midlands. And essentially what we're trying to do is do fitness challenges that everyone can kind of take part in, but also be robust enough that like competitive athletes could kind of do them at the same time. So the motto we're trying to like live by is like unique formats in unique venues, but open to everyone. So it's not a case of just like this is for the pros or this is for the elites, or it's just a fun run. We're actually trying to like blend all of those together to give everyone kind of like a good, good, good experience with fitness. Speaker 1 Yeah. So you perp so, so listeners are really now focused on what the challenge of Co is. I do want to just kind of start off by kind of get an understanding from from you Joe and for our listeners kind of like 10-15 years ago compared to now, what that fitness world means to you. Like what does fitness mean to you then and what does fitness mean to you now, going through those experiences, not that you. Speaker 2 I know you've got a lot of. Speaker 1 Experience in fitness, but kind of how has that evolved and changed? Speaker 2 So I guess so my kind of background, so I'm 31 now, which I guess is not too old, but I do actually feel quite old in the fitness. Evolution of Fitness Culture Over 15 Years You might. Speaker 1 Be sound old. Speaker 2 So I kind of got in when I was like 1617 in like my school gym and I was playing rugby at the time, and then kind of then started transitioning into like taking rugby more seriously. So going in like shrimp conditioning. And at that time, obviously, like things like CrossFit were only just starting to really start to hit the mainstream, especially in the UK as well. So yeah, I kind of got into it through that way and then got bit by the bug and got into Olympic weightlifting and then kind of always sat next to the whole fitness scene in general. But I think in the last 10 to 12 years, I would say we've just, it's gone really mainstream. I think fitness and going to the gym was all these always quite a niche thing. And you know, like if you go like your family parties, you would have someone and they would like make a comment about how much protein you're eating or something like that. Like have you had your shakes today or whatever? But now that is just like super mainstream and it's super normal and like even like when you go to Tesco, it's. Speaker 1 Weird if you don't, it's weird if you don't. Speaker 2 Yeah, exactly. Like protein bars are like in a meal deal now and it's like years, years ago there was only like like when my protein first started there was 2 flavours like it was unflavoured and chocolate that was his. So. So yeah, I think it's changed for, I think it's really cool to see that in terms of like it exploding, you'd be getting way more mainstream and also gyms as well just turning like really transitioning into not just places that people go to as a chore, but more people things do as like a big part of their day. Like a lot of people now are training for like good two hours, 3, five times a week and then spending a lot of money on competitions and stuff. So there's a big part of people's identity now. And I feel like we're almost like switching from like fitness is just a thing people do for health and actually more of like an identity and actual like lifestyle hobby, which traditional sports probably used to fill. Speaker 1 Would you say that's because there's so much says there's now so many options for people to compete at all levels? Does that make sense? Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah. And I think the big one has also been like social media as well. Impact of Social Media on Fitness Engagement Like I think, I think, I think like the you think as well, like 10-15 years ago, like Instagram wasn't that much. I remember being like one of the first people on my personal Instagram, he was posting like weightlifting videos and like like two people liked it. And then like your mates from home are like, oh, he does that to them thing. Whereas now like you go on social media and like everyone's got a videographer from the high rocks event or they're from their fitness race or like even now you see like people that went to primary school with are like doing high rocks. So they're doing like weightlifting competitions. I think social media has been a big part of that. And then also the money that's come into that from brands as well, it's just allowed people to turn their hobby into something like a little bit of a side to us as well. Whereas it's like online coaching or even like discount codes for things like My Protein or Gym Shark and stuff like that. So I think, I think that's how it's kind of gone. It's got a little bit more serious in a sense as well, but also becoming more accessible as well. Speaker 1 Yeah, it is. So on your journey through your fitness related experiences, would you say that's played the pivotal part into setting up a Challenger code? Speaker 2 Yeah, 100%. Like so I think I think like what you originally asked you like kind of like what is fitness? Personal Journey and Inspiration Behind Challenger Co It's quite hard for me thing to answer because it's literally just being who I am for like for all I've ever known really. I just. Speaker 1 Think this is different and that question as well as a bit of a, you know, it's quite a hard question to answer, but ultimately it's what is personal to you. Everyone's got a different answer to that. And again, I'm not going to hold you to this is what you think everyone should be. It's more a case of what it means to you and your journey and how it got you to where you are now with this kind of new, new business venture. Speaker 2 Yeah. And I think like with that, I think so I think, I think fitness is always like a personal thing that people can kind of do. But then it is for a lot of people, it's a passion. And it's a, and it's, I'll tell you what, it's escapism. Yeah, it's escapism. It's being able to go into the gym and if you're having a bad day and you might work as an accountant or this, that and the other, and then you can just like smash some weights for two hours and feel amazing after. And I think that's what fitness is for a lot of people. And then it's also meeting other people who like the same music as you or the same interest as you, and then you start chatting to them. It's like, oh, they also like that niche thing that you also like outsiders, the gym as well. And then you'd be kind of come, come friends in that way. So I think I think that's what fitness, it's almost like a melting pot. And I think gyms are like that as well in how that's kind of transitioned into where I've gone professionally. So when I was like 18 or so in sixth form, I actually like failed my first year of sixth form. I was going down the route of doing like graphic design and IT and I just completely lost interest. But I also start again to the gym way more seriously at that time. So I actually. Speaker 1 It was the gym's fault. Speaker 2 Yeah, but he then also kind of saved me as well. Like I then I then switched and was going to go down the route of sports science and so went off university, spent like 6-7 years getting like 3° in this kind of topic area and then working professionally in that sense. So it kind of always set me off on that track. And then when we came to building out what we're doing with Challenger, it was a case of like a couple of years ago, I had an injury which kind of like prevented me from carrying on with weightlifting anymore and almost pulled me out of that space. And what I kind of realised is that what I was missing wasn't necessarily the numbers or the the competitions, It was more the people and the socialising that you meet along the way for it and that buzzword community. But that's kind of what you're actually growing a lot of the time. And I think sometimes you really blue sight of that. Speaker 1 Yeah, agreed. And I, I mean, we, it is a buzzword community, but it's something I don't think we can get away from because it does bring you to close to close to people. I mean, I did the Arnold's event last weekend and I'd only spoke these people online or watch their videos. But when you meet them for the first time, you really feel as though you know them, you've built up this trust. You know, you're sharing the same workouts, you're sharing the same pain when you go things that when you go through things that are tough, that is hard work and you go through it with somebody. It's a sense of sharing and it is something incredible about that moment. And you know, fitness to me is, is character building. Fitness to me is definitely, it's more than fitness. It's great. You are literally sculpting your own version, a new version of yourself. And we don't know how that looks right now because that's a year, 2 years, 10 years from now. And I believe we continue sculpting every single Day, 1% a day, but ultimately you're just trying to be better tomorrow, better the next day. And that's what we get. If we stay consistent with it, we can achieve any goal we kind of want to achieve. From your point of view, where you are now with it, I mean, you must have seen some problems in some areas, or maybe not problems maybe actually seeing how I could do something differently. So with the challenging code, challenger code, what did you see? Was there anything broken in the fitness competition space? Was there anything that really pushed you to build something new? And if So, what was it? Speaker 2 I think the gap that I kind of saw coming out of like, so if I, if I frame it in the sense of like when I was competing in weightlifting, I was taking that like very serious. Identifying Gaps in the Fitness Competition Space That was my, everything about my life was built around trying to improve my snatch and cleaning jerk. So that also LED into job and personal relationships and stuff. And kind of when I got injured with it, it kind of led me to a little bit of burnout. And I think the gap that I kind of saw then getting back into that space after injury was that there was a lot of people doing that kind of underneath a little bit. And you kind of realised that actually, like the best part about this is actually like the people who you deal with and the, and the fun aspects of what you're doing. And I kind of looked at the competition space and it was something which I always had in the back of my mind with weightlifting is that the training sessions were often the best part of weightlifting, but it wasn't actually the composition day. Because when you go to competition day, you're lifting at 10 AM, I'm lifting at 3:00 PM, so and so lifting at Sunday at like 2:00. So it can be a little bit disjointed, whereas Max out. Speaker 1 Shared experience is it that that is? Yeah, experience, right? Speaker 2 Whereas like Max out Friday is like everyone's, everyone's in the gym. We never. Speaker 1 Maxed out Friday. Speaker 2 I lived, literally lived on it and much to my detriment actually as well, actually it would have been a lot better weightlifter if I did do. But yeah, everyone's in the same gym at the same time getting after it and it's really concentrated in that space. And I think I looked at it and was like, how can we get have, how can we have that feeling as an event? And how can it not feel that when you go to say like a fitness event at the NEC or something, how can it still capture that like throw down kind of feeling of what you get in the gym with your mates, but also in a competition setting as well. So there's a, there's a, there's a concept of like, kind of like normalised scoring and like ratings and this, that. And you know, you'd seen a few of the businesses kind of do. And I kind of saw that. And what I saw with that was it was what we were trying to try to find was an inclusive inclusivity tool really so that how can you get everyone doing the same thing at the same time without making it a fun run or a little bit like scaled, scaled down. How can you keep it really high, like really high, like robust and like having people like trying to set world records, but also have someone as their first competition at the same time. So we kind of settled on this idea of having like a true normalised scoring system for all the fitness. The Concept of Normalized Scoring Systems But then so I kind of approached like 2 of my two of my best mates who one of them, it's got a PhD in atomic physics. So he's, he's one of the smartest people I've ever met. And I kind of threw the idea out to him and I was like, look, we're kind of doing this. There's a few ideas out there already. But like I'm not too sure if the maths is right on them. This is kind of what I want to do. Can can we do it? Like does it? I've had a go at it already. Like I don't think the maths is quite right that I'll send over. Speaker 1 To you, just for the listeners, just so they can visualise this in their head, if that's OK because you're explaining it brilliantly. The scores will be set for each event. Could you just say what the events are so the listeners are aware of what the events would be and in their head have so everyone that is competing competes the exact same event? Is that correct? Speaker 2 Yes. So for the for the main event that we're starting off on the 9th of May, we're doing the hybrid title. So it's Scott bench deadlift one right, Max 10 climbs a bike, 1K ski, one more room. OK. We can apply this scoring system to basically any kind of fitness event where there's data, yes, we're homing that in on the like your legacy kind of fitness events. So your one Rep maxes your snatchers, your clean jerks, and then also your 2K2K row 500 metre row one more, run 5K. Speaker 1 Let's go 500 metre row. Speaker 2 And so so those kind of like legacy kind of tests, so basic enough that anyone in any gym could do it, but also at the same time like anyone can get on a concept two row machine and do a 2K. Yeah. But only a few people would get on it and do it in sub 6 minutes. That's kind of how we wanted to build it of like legacy kind of tests. And then once we had that kind of like setting of like these are the kind of things we wanted to do it naturally and formed into how we had built that score out because we used a very specific data model approach which made it very, very accurate, which also meant that we could only operate in those legacy tests anyway. That kind of answers that. Speaker 1 Yeah, for sure, for sure. And again, it's just just for listeners, it purely and simply is the the the challenge of score in simple terms is what it makes, what makes it different from traditional categories like age or weight is that everyone is competing at the same same time as it were the same event, but each event will be giving a certain score. Is that is that correct? Speaker 2 Yeah. So it scores you how good you are for who you are. Speaker 1 I like it, yeah. Speaker 2 Yeah, that's essentially how it works and it works off if you want to get into like a little bit of the maths stuff with it. Yeah. So it's essentially this idea of like probability and statistical rarity which has probably just gone over, loads of people said straight away. Speaker 1 Whatever, everyone switched off. Guys, please don't switch off. Stay with us on this. Speaker 2 So there's there's many ways in which you can like normalise scores. Mathematics and Fairness in Scoring So, and normalising scores in sport is not a new concept. I mean, you've had the Wilkes formula in powerlifting, you've had the Sinclair formula in weightlifting for years to compare between. What we did instead is that we took all of the data that exists on those tests, like your warrant maxes your 2K rows because all that data is out there. And then essentially what we then did was run that through a very specific type of data model, which then categorised people for their age, sex and body weight. So the main kind of categories that you have in sports, because those things are going to influence your ability to do well at those events. And then essentially then that's all plotted out and you're scored for how good you are for those characteristics. So if you are a 70 KG power lifter and you're deadlifting 3 times body weight, that's probably quite close to the world record. Therefore, you're going to score very high on the score because there's not many people in the world who can do that. So therefore, it's going to get high score versus if you use another way to do this, so say like power to weight ratio or like just divide them by body weight, that wouldn't really show the same thing because obviously as body weight increases, the heavy you get, you can't lift as much. Like you, if you're a super heavyweight weightlifter, you can't lift 3 times your body weight. So we applied like a very specific data model to kind of do that essentially as simply as it is, it doesn't make it any easier, but it just makes it fair for everyone. And I think how we wanted to approach this with competitions is that in the current stance, the easy way to get everyone involved in the competition is to lower the bar and make the exercises easier. Instead, what we said is that let's make the scoring system just fair for everyone and kind of like raise the floor for everyone instead so we're all being compared fairly for who we are. Speaker 1 It's really interesting the the way you said that, it just made me think. So if you look at high rocks, for example, very, very, I don't want to use the word simple, but they are simple movements that anyone can do, right? You know, running instead. First, Deadpool. Obviously it can be heavy and it's challenging. I think all balls are a challenge for a lot of people, but they are movements. They're the judges. Let's not go there. That's a whole different point. There are a lot of different, sorry, there are simple movements. But what you're saying is you've produced a system that actually you can now take the more challenging movements, the weightlifting, the 2K rows, all the all the movements that is not in a high box. But you can take challenging movements and provide a fair system for scoring that would measure a Dallin Pepper compared to me. Speaker 2 Yeah. Speaker 1 Incredible. Incredible. So yeah, go on. Speaker 2 I think, yeah. So the way to kind of say that would be the scoring system adjusts to all the differences between everyone without the competition changing. Yeah. Speaker 1 That's how. So you're working the scores around the competition, not the competition around the scores. Speaker 2 Yes, yeah, yeah. And I think if you, if you to use that fitness racing, I think they've done a great job of getting mass participation. And I would say if fitness, fitness racing is like day one exercises, like all those ones, if you're a gym PT, like you look at all those things in the high rocks and like you can get pretty much everyone to do those exercises on the first day they step in with the exercises. We've pits. I would say we can, we can do that as well. Like, but we're not doing snatching clean jerk and I think just yet, but like we stick into the squat, bench and deadlift. I would almost say those if fitness racing is week one, day one, I would say challenger events at the moment, probably week 1, like by the end of by the end of the week like we can get you into a competition. Speaker 1 That makes sense, that makes sense and and just and again just for the listeners to understand you've chosen these movements based on this is the beginning for Challenger, right? Yeah. Looking forwards. There is no limit to what you can deliver though. You actually, you can build it out to any, any platform, any you can rock up to a gym box or you know, a CrossFit box and you can go, OK, choose 7 workouts and you can use this system and it can provide a fair system to score from your scowled athlete to your who's your best athlete in the box, OK, to gym over there. And we can provide this scoring system for a A1 off on a day competition. Yeah. Speaker 2 Kind of yes. So the because of the approach that we took with the data being the thing that informs the scoring system, as long as there is data, we can pretty much start to build out scores for things. So you it's very easy to start off with your legacy fitness things first because because. Speaker 1 You've got the data, right? You've got lots of yeah. Speaker 2 Yeah, like you think, like if you're just going off weightlifting and powerlifting or indoor roving, you've got 50-60 years worth of data to pick from. So you you've got a big enough sample size to know how good someone is for who they are. You could do this for like CrossFit events. So this is something we did already look at. Data Models and Fair Comparison of Athletes So like if you go back to some of the old open workouts where on the leaderboard is there and this and they were like, that is something you could kind of do. And it's there's some that we did kind of look at as well. But it's also this element of that. And that's kind of what we're getting to with the scoring as well. Is that the the way in which we did The score I personally feel is the most accurate way you can normalise for people and can't go into too much depth of highways and so on as most people wouldn't really care anyway. The International Weightlifting Federation are now using the same concept of what we're. Speaker 1 Interested. Speaker 2 But it's just one of those of like, let's make it the tests accessible enough for anyone in every gym as well to do so. Not everyone's got the space in all of their gyms to do some of like the old CrossFit wards or they don't have the skill sets to be able to do them as well. But you go into most gyms now and there's a barbell in there and there's a space for you to like work up to a heavyset and there's most likely now ski, egg, a row machine, some form of bike and then everyone's doing running now anyway. So I thought with that kind of. Speaker 1 For me, I don't do. I don't do running. Speaker 2 I I even either of now like very, very badly, extremely badly actually. But yeah. So that that's, that's what how we so over time it's we've got that logic of like this is how we can make competitions fair. So if you do want to build something out like we can kind of do that and we're starting off with the most accurate way of to do it first, so. Speaker 1 Yeah, it makes sense. I'm interested into what I'm thinking now that listeners listening right now, I got a thing, they might be one of the last questions and be like, Oh yeah, but what about this? How was that fair? How was this? What was the hardest part about making something like the Challenger score actually work in practise? And if so, has anyone gone actually, has there been any pushback they only spoke to and you've kind of overcome those burdens along the way because it is a journey. It's not going to be accurate or perfect first time. So what were those pushbacks you've had that you've kind of overcome? Speaker 2 Yes. So when we first started doing it, we did quite a bit of pilot testing as well. So that was with people like actually testing out schools and going into gyms and actually running that. And I think the biggest, the biggest hurdle straightaway that we found was making sure that like the curves are correct. So what I mean by that would be if we take dividing by body weight, for example, or taking a benchmark, So I've already used the body weight, so I use a 2K row as an example. So if you took like a benchmark of say 7 minutes for a 2K row for a male, and you say right, if you are that, if that's a good benchmark and then you take a percentage of that, that would be a way to use the normalised between everyone. But performance doesn't work like that, does it? Because you know that 50% of a 2K row time of 7 minutes. And if you then do that in 14 minutes, it's not, that's not the same actually in 2K row at like 7 minutes is way harder than it is in 14 minutes. So getting that curve correct was possibly the hardest thing that we've ever done with it. And it's still something that's growing over time. And that's the great thing that we're doing with the data is that the more people who do this, the more accurate it's going to get as well. Because when you're working with data as well, you, your median and your, and your average kind of like score is going to be dependent on the data set that you use as well. So you might have, if you're pulling from competitive data, that's going to be skewed. Whereas if you go into the average, if you took a sample size of 10,000 people who go to the gym, on average, the average 2K's roaming time might not be 7 minutes, might actually be 9 minutes, might be 8 minutes. So I think that that was one of the hardest things that we had to do and that we bless him, Ben, he spent, he spent a lot of hours just doing some kind of like voodoo maths, which even went over my head in that sense. And so that that's kind of been the pushback on that sense. And, and obviously we've kind of just revised over, I think what we've got now is as good as it can kind of get for the time being. And then the more people do it, you'll strengthen over time. But again, like the best people will still witness. It's just a case of like how many points that they beat you by. So that that's on the curve perspective on the, on the actual like philosophical kind of thing. Challenges in Developing the Scoring System It does come into a sense. And this is what we found when we started doing the normalisation of running this, this one's a rabbit hole. So I'll try and try and answer this one quite quickly that it's a case of like you could be beaten by someone who has done less weight than you or has run a slightly slower time than you, but maybe they're slightly older than you and that can break people's brains. Speaker 1 But. Speaker 2 The nice thing about it though is that when you actually start to see this in person, because we're choosing like quite hard tests and to they keep using the 2K row. Like even if you do a Max out 2K row and you are like 55 year old female and you hit a really good score on that, you're not just you're not getting up off the road machine and walking casually away from it. You're on that. You're in the. Speaker 1 Falling off and you're laying there, Yeah. Speaker 2 You're in the same state as what the person as what the young male was who's doing it in maybe 6 minutes 25 You're in the same state. So there's a level of like respect there of like, damn, that person beat me. But OK, it's a little bit of a mind boggle first, but actually I can see they're they're also like in the same state as me. It's that shared struggle. Speaker 1 It's, it's that shared struggle in the effort. And I've always, I've always said this and I think it's fantastic what you're doing, dude, because you can have two runners, 2 rowers, 2 crossfitters. It's just that we get to a red line either early or related. We all go through the pain barrier and again, Chase Pain is the podcast. This is what it's all about. We're all going to hit the pain threshold. We're all going to use the same effort, just that it might take some longer to get there, but we all go through that moment of shit is hit the fan. I want to quit. I want to stop bodies saying no, head's saying no, but somehow we find a way to go on. And when you do complete that 2K row, someone's done it in 6 minutes, O1. Someone's done it in 10, O1. You've both got the same desired feeling, haven't you? Yeah, it's great. Speaker 2 Just to touch on that one as well, like when we did the running, that one was a real 1 where we had to really think about what is fairness in sport. So before we had done running, we'd obviously done rowing, we'd done the bike, we've done all the concept to kit and then we did the lifting as well. Fairness in Running and Weight Classes And that was quite easy to do because there's already preset categories in there. But you have weight classes and it's quite a very understood thing. Even rowing has weight classes. But then when you get into running, there's none of that. And we, what we actually, what we actually kind of found is that like running is almost like the most unfair sport in a sense because the light, the lighter you are, the better you are. It is like the light you are, you just go typically go typically that is the sense. And we don't have any of that. But it also then started to really bring about a question, which is obviously this is way too much for a podcast. But in the female athlete space, there is like the energy deficiency syndrome. And a lot of that sometimes comes from the fact that like you can get away with running. We've just been lighter and lighter and lighter. And then you get into these positions where people are in crazy energy deficits in the sport of running and we almost looking at us like, well, that's purely because like there's no like weight class. And it's like weight class sports do have like those problems as well. But there is an element especially in weightlifting where you need to be healthy as well to be able to compete as well. Whereas like in running, there is like some of these problems where there's energy deficiency like issues and we kind of like thought that as like well, damn. Like is that just because like the light you are the certificate fast you go as well? Speaker 1 Yeah, it makes sense. I mean there aren't official weight classes in running, but if you were, if you were to collect 150 female and 50 male marathon runners, I think you'd find there'd be within a very similar weight class as opposed to 100 metre runner that want to want to go and do a marathon. I think people that take running seriously, they, a 10K runner, needs to be at a set rate to be there at their optimum level. But if you go and do a part run, everyone's going to be of the same calibre. Usually they like to go for a bit of fun, like there's fun runs, right? Obviously numbers are really too fussed about their weight or you know, whatever it may be and that's when it will be. There will be a difference there. But but I don't think obviously there's no weight classes in running, but I think if people take running seriously, they are going to train for it and be within their right weight class without there being in. I would say there's an unofficial weight class in running, but you look at who's the boxer that's just done the high rocks. Speaker 2 Tommy. Speaker 1 Fury. Tommy Fury, obviously he done. I think he did a 10K rock, he did a triathlon or something and he did this big Sprint finish at the end, pushed someone out the way and then he did his high rocks and now he does his big Sprint finish. But he's a really big guy. The point I'm making, he's a massive guy. Did actually a sub 60 partner workout in time and in high rocks, really big guy. But you go and put him into a marathon, you know he will not be able to hit the times that marathon runners can hit. But what if he did trim down? What if he did actually go on a big diet and actually train from a runner? Maybe he could hit those thumbs, I don't know. I think it's a really good question. You're exactly right on what you're saying and I've never thought about that before. In running there is no divisions. Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah, it would be almost if you flip that to strength sports. Yeah. And you had no weight classes in strength? Speaker 1 Yeah, imagine. Speaker 2 You're like, you're like guys would be screwed. They'd be absolutely screwed. Don't actually some of the best lifters of all time like Naeem Sula Monoli like pro consider the best weight lifter of all time like he was like a 55 like what 56 KG lifter Yeah, but you'd almost be then comparing him to like lashes Alhadzi and you're like, you can't really do that. No, of course. Yeah, it was interesting when we were like, right, let's scale that back a little bit and let's just get let's just get a score ready for night for me like and let's try not to break our brains so. Speaker 1 So it it sounds as though you've obviously had some issues to overcome and we all do when we set up new concepts. And it sounds like there's probably going to be some other issues going forward because it is a process of elimination. It is that I don't use the word trial and error, but you basically are gaming content, gaming facts and figures. And as that database grows, you will only be able to offer more, isn't it? You better offer more criteria, but that's that you must really sign because I bet you're like, I want to be there. Now click your fingers. Five years time, we'll have all this data. We can do all this kind of stuff. That's really exciting for you going forward, isn't it? Speaker 2 Yeah, Yeah, definitely. Yeah, it's, it's always good like with as well. Just we just need to get traction at the moment. And I think one thing we've really noticed with this is that when we take this to a couple of gyms and stuff is that people at first are a little bit like puzzled by it. And then as soon as they start to see the scores go in, they're like, oh, this is just like, but it's just like how it normally is, like the best people that like, it's just how it is just actually, Oh yeah. My, I think what it is is that like typically in the fitness space at the moment, we naturally skew towards certain groups of people and certain like body weights and stuff. And I can give you an example with what we're doing with the hybrid total that kind of came about because we were talking about this kind of like hybrid standard that people have of like the £500 back squat and the five minute mile. And when you think about that, everyone talks about it, but it's like that's a good hybrid standard. If you're late 20s and a 90 KG male, what is it? What does, what is it for if you're a female for a start? And then what happens if I am 70 KG and I don't deadlift 500 lbs, but I'm dead lifting less, but relatively that's a higher and you're kind of like hang on a second, like why we just hitting on just pure just like picking just numbers out of thinner errand saying that number means something Well. Speaker 1 It's always good. It's a wow everyone. It's it's that wow factorism. Yes, 500 lbs And it is just, yeah, the big guns. It always brings out that big wow, you know, viral moment. It's great for social media. Ego, ego lifting is where I write. I can lift that and I can run that. But like you say, it's also relative to someone that weighs a lot lighter but actually can lift more. But it doesn't it doesn't sound as good. No, it's true, though it doesn't sound good, does it? Speaker 2 Yeah. Speaker 1 It's strange. So, so how, how are you going to balance that inclusivity while still keep keeping it competitive on on picture And now the event day, you know, hybrid, I want to, I want to find out like, how do you want, if you're going to want an event, how do you want that to be? Is it going to have a great atmosphere? Will there be a DJ? Will it be music, lights, camera action? What what? What's your thought process on that? Speaker 2 Yeah, so how, how we kind of do that is I, I, I subscribe to the idea that the everyone deep down wants a really good training atmosphere. Event Atmosphere and Venue Planning And in my opinion, a really good training atmosphere is like everyone's supporting each other, music loud and lots of energy. I think if you go into a gym and it doesn't have that, it's deflating. It's like going into a library. And if it doesn't, if it doesn't have that, then it's like, oh God, like you've probably been in those environments where you feel like there's an extra couple of KG in the air and you can just kind of get them. So, so in terms of how we're running the event on the 9th of May at Alexander Stadium, which is a fantastic venue of the Commonwealth Games, it's held in Birmingham. We've got the, all the lifting we're doing actually inside the stadium underneath, kind of like where the stands are, there's a really cool gym inside that. So it's all going to be enclosed in there and Red Bull are coming along to help us with that as well, which is going to be awesome. Speaker 1 That's a great brand. That's brilliant, isn't it? I mean, that's. Speaker 2 Yeah, we've got quite lucky that they're doing their charity fun run in the same venue the day after. So we've got quite lucky that one. But yeah, so we've got some like cool DJs coming down here, like friends of mine. And then we've also got some like other music artists from just the West Midlands area because that's I'm a big music fan. So we want to kind of like get different styles in as well. Yeah. But that that weight room is going to be like the Max out Friday kind of feeling of like the music is going to be loud, going to be a lot of energy in there. You're going to be in there to do your lifting. And then you probably want to get out of there after when you've done that, say there's going to be there's going to be a lot of noise in there. And then when we're doing the cardio, then you're then going to go through the stadium kind of like tunnel, like as if you were coming out for the actual big event in the stadium. Speaker 1 Yeah, so we're. Speaker 2 Going to walk you through the tunnel there and it's going to be like a 1 route entrance on that as well. So you can't come back in. It's just one way and then all the cardio is going to be focused in one space. You have the bikes there and then once you'll do the bike, you'll flow then onto the ski and then once you're done then then you'll be running round the track and then we'll have like the the finish and and stuff. Speaker 1 Like that, that I, I love the sound of that for the flow of this is for the listeners again, is there after each event, is there like a break? They get a time break. And where is that? Yeah. Speaker 2 Yeah. So how we're how we're running it on the strength is that in the strength. Event Schedule and Flow Details So you'll, you'll come in first, you'll have like, we're going to give people about 20 to 30 minutes to kind of weigh in and warm up. Yeah. And see how I have access to that. And then we're going to bring everyone in their waves into the strength room 1st. And then you're going to go through the squat, bench and deadlift. And I know there's other competitions that give like very set windows to do things. We're going to have it as like a very similar kind of concept, but slightly longer windows because I just don't think 5 minutes is enough for you to get up to. We're bringing in the like 10-12 minutes instead. So that room is going to be capped around like 35 minutes. But there's going to be a couple of floating racks with an MC kind of calling out people's names. And the leaderboard is always going to be there. So it's going to resemble a lot of like what a weightlifting competition kind of looks like, but not as strict and not as not as, yeah, not as strict as I can. Supporting Spectators and Family Yeah, More relaxed. You can have a look at the quaint vibe in there, right? Yeah. I get it. Because that that will be the opposite to a lifting event where it's all quiet and they do, which is great. But you know, that, that, that, that, that sounds really cool. And what about people? I've got my wife and daughter coming to watch. Would they be able to come and watch in the room and then, like, flow with me? Yeah. Speaker 2 Yeah, Yeah. So we've got space for that as well. So the the room's got a pretty decent capacity in there. So we can have the competitors and some space for people kind of watching as well. And then into the endurance. Then we'll then have a, you've got then like a 10 minute transition from to like change your shoes, like grab some electrolytes or like have some more caffeine or whatever, or some energy gels. And then you've got 10 minutes then. And then you all go out into the bike. You do the bike, which is going to be 10 kilometres. That probably going to take most people around like 20 minutes or so. If you're really good, it might take you less than that. And then we'll have another kind of like break period for about 5 to 10 minutes is to catch your breath and then it would be the ski and there'll be another like 5 minutes or so break and then it will be everyone on the run together. Event Format and Transition Phases So the idea is that like it's all getting done in around a 90 minute format. So then it kind of brings in a cool aspect on top of it, whereas you've got the maximal strength and the different endurance things, but at the same time, you've got to be able to do all of that in the space of 19 minutes. So that's going to be quite a challenge in itself as well. Which I, I did the, I did the testing for the event myself way back over Christmas. And it's actually like, yeah, it, it took a couple of different revisions to do it, but it is quite nice. When we flowed through it, it was like you are leaving equality and a muscle group behind you. Every time you're flowing through it, you think like once you've done the bike, you're then going into like the ski, which is slightly more of a body. And then the run is going to be probably just everything at that point. The run is going to be everything, yeah. Speaker 1 Be dead anyway yeah and on the on the lifting is there lifting got we done a set order. Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah. So it's going to follow like squat punch dead. Speaker 1 Yeah, that makes sense. OK, great. And from a scaling point of view, have you already started thinking about, well, actually if we'd but Hierarchs for example, they're doing heat and wave after wave after wave up to like 11:15 at night and they have these waves going through. So their model, you know, it's very successful. It's getting huge volumes of numbers going through. From your point of view, the hybrid total is 1 is it's kind of the the first, should we say of many and that structure can change as and when you desire. So it won't just be the same workout every time, right? Speaker 2 Yes. So I think that's like people like formats. And I think Hierarchs has really shown that people do like a set format to work towards. What I personally would like to do is actually make what we're building a little bit more decentralised than Hierarchs and probably sit in the gap between how CrossFit used to exist and then Hierarchs and there's a bit of a gap there. So I think in terms of like scaling, how we would want to run this is running city to city. So we've got like hybrid turtle in kind of Birmingham, then we could do one, maybe London, Cardiff and Manchester. Scaling and Future Expansion Plans But then beforehand, because everything is run on a web app, which we own ourselves and stuff, and we can start giving that to gym owners. There's no reason as to why you couldn't run something in your gym beforehand as like a qualifier or like a way to get all of your gym involved in something at the same time. And you could use that yourself as benchmarking or just doing a certain competition for you guys. And then you've got something in your city then that you can then go to and the whole gym can kind of go to. So that's kind of like where we kind of want to take that in terms of the scaling. So instead of just looking at, do we just go from 100 people at Alexander Stadium to 1000 people? It would be like, actually, can we just go the other end and get like lots of people in the gym kind of doing this and then having a way for them to actually do something that's on their doorstep. And everyone can kind of go to that at the same time that that kind of brings back to what we said at the beginning of like unique formats in unique venues. So I, I'm personally like this is no hate on any kind of like events or, or any venues, but I just think there's way more venues out there that fitness can go into now that can do. There's loads of like old warehouses or like even at Alexander Stadium, like there are lots of venues like that where I'm just thinking I'm looking, I'm like, God, you could really, really call what you think competition. There's even like old like pub venues and stuff like that where you look at it. You just need without with our stuff as well as like it's not too much of electrical demand with it. It's like concept to use don't need electricity, you obviously you just need lifting kit. So I think, yeah, in terms of scaling it, we want to be able to have something that Jim owner can get benefit from and then also what the actual individual can get benefit from as well. Speaker 1 So, and just to make sure I get this right, so there's an opportunity there actually to utilise the tech, isn't it? So the tech that you've created can go into every gym in the country in the world. Like that would be the, you know, we always look at the biggest scale possible where we have that tech in every country, sorry, in every gym in the world. And then they can use it as and when they wish. So would they pay a subscription for that or was that not been organised as of Yeah. Speaker 2 I'd hope they would, yeah. I mean, they amazing and just, no, it's like a, that is a model that we've looked at to, to go down that we, there are many, when you start this kind of business, there's many routes you could kind of go down with it. Global Potential and Gym Integration And I think it comes back to what does that scoring system actually let you do? And it's, it comes back to that idea of like it's an inclusivity tool 1st and it allows you to put an event on that everyone can have a goer. And that's where we wanted to like come at the angle first of like, let's put a cool thing on that's local to people that everyone can get involved in. And then if we want to take it into gyms and let pick gym owners, then start to build on top of that, we can do that as well. But let's nail this bit first. Speaker 1 Yeah, I'll get. Speaker 2 Demand for it get the traction I've got. Speaker 1 A head of myself there. No, no, because. Speaker 2 It's it's great though, but I think if we were to start the other way around first, yeah, I, I chose not to go that route. And I think that's also just because like I love training and putting on events together with people and put visa quite loud as. Speaker 1 You sound really infectiously personality about it, like you sound really infectious in the fact that you're excited about putting on the event at the stadium and also about what you're building here. And I think it's clear to clear to show the that you're building a platform, an events platform could drive into something so much bigger. But from your point of view, you're going to pivot when you need to as a business, you're going to see what works, a bit of suck it and see because it is new and see how the event works out. I mean, it might be that actually the event goes great and you go, OK, let's put on, you know, 5 events each year and have, you know, 50,000 people start the event. So I don't know, but it's really nice that you haven't gone. We have to just do this. We can evolve and do this, this or this. Let's look at how that works. I think that's really great. And that's the excitement of being in your business, isn't it? Speaker 2 Yeah, I think definitely. And it's, it comes down to how I kind of view things morally as well because I've worked in like gym management and stuff. And I think like with certain other businesses sometimes when you talk about that, because you're almost looking like affiliations with that and you're like affiliation packages. And I almost wonder sometimes like, what do you actually get out of that? What does the like is that is this the actual like two way relationship here? And I think we're if just coming from the gym and growing up in gyms, I want to be able to give like something to a gym owner where I'm going to get benefit, but you're going to get a lot of the benefit out of it as well. And actually we can work together to actually grow this network for everyone where we can all kind of like win from that. And I think that's something with like some of the event space at the moment and some of the affiliations. It does kind of feel as if people look at it and they're spending money and they're like, what am I actually getting from you? Whereas where we kind of want to be in the position of like, well, you guys can use this stuff and you can, you can have, you can run your own stuff in your place and we can just like support you if that with the app or the scoring system. But then also we're going to put this cool thing on as well. And then you guys can feed into that and we can benefit you and it can just build out that actual like true network, which I feel like 15 years ago, that's what lots of people were trying to build at the time. And I think in some cases we've kind of lost that anyway. Building a Community and Inclusive Environment Yeah. So personally, your journey you've been on, what have you learned most about about yourself and about the business journey? But has your approach changed now you know what you can create or what you've created? Has your perception changed in the approach of what a competition is and how a competition should be scored? Is it just your way or the highway, or are you still open to all the other ways that are out there? Speaker 2 Oh, no, definitely open to definitely open to ways to do it. I would say like we're, we're we're firm, but like flexible on that. So yeah, they we say we actually originally start this as a team competition and that was that's what we originally started doing it as. And then we realised after a bit of feedback, we were like, OK, we need to shelve that for a couple of years time and just get this concept off the ground first with individuals. So already we're already open to that kind of idea. And then people then coming on with different ideas, like when we first started talking about the hybrid tale, I had some exercises in mind and then we started talking to other coaches. And then we're like, actually throw this in there and actually, you should do this. And actually like you, you have to put a one mile run in like, because we're going to do 3K at 1st. And then people like, no, you have to do what? So yes, there's, there's that element of it as well. And I think because we're building up the platform, the score, it does give the opportunity for people to actually feed into that as well. So I'm more than happy for that. And I would love, I would love a scenario where say three years down the line where we set out like a pool of like 20 tests for the highway turtle for this year. And we just let people vote on what they want you want it to do. Adapting and Evolving the Competition Format So that would be really, I think that would be really cool with like let the community kind of vote. OK, cool. That's the highway turtle for 20/29 and everyone's going to voted on that. And then in terms of like personal kind of side of things, I think my relationship with competing in competitions and just sport in general has changed. So I've always enjoyed competing, I've always enjoyed lifting. But I think in my mid 20s that got really serious and the enjoyment kind of went out of it. Speaker 1 Yeah, and. Speaker 2 I think. I think my worry for the entire industry at the moment is I see the similar behaviours in people and I'm like, calm down, you're still going to make progress like. Speaker 1 Yeah. Speaker 2 Don't worry about it like you have one bad competition, it's not the end of the world or like you've had a couple of bad transitions, not the end of the world. Like actually just enjoy what you're doing and enjoy the process that you're going through because there's always an injury around the corner. There's always another life struggle around the corner. And this could go very, very quickly. So just enjoy it whilst you've kind of got it. Because like, if you're not having fun doing it, then why you like, why are you really doing it? And you know, you know, Ben must see the guy who owns RAD. Yeah. So he said, I thought he summed up fantastically when he was saying about the, the branding stuff in fitness and he was saying how it's always like a bit Moody and dark and stuff. And he was actually saying, well, actually, like you do some of these hard workouts and CrossFit and you do feel like you're at the red line and stuff, but you finish it and you're like, oh God, that was actually really good for me. Like I pushed myself to a new place. And I think that's what like that's how my relationship has kind of changed over time where you kind of felt like obliged to do that stuff and it kind of felt like I have to have to struggle. Well, actually like maybe just enjoy the fact that you can actually do that. You can go in and hit a really good time because there's not a lot of people who can do that or might not even have the ability to do it. Speaker 1 It's it's definitely prioritising the fact that you can go to the gym one, the fact that you can work out, you can get a good sweats on. Appreciate those moments. And of course we will want to hit a PB. We want to get better and fitter. But just appreciate the fact that you can be in that moment with a friend or in the community and getting after it right. Yeah, I, I, I haven't done one, but I quite like the the look of the FX. I think they've got that really well planned. And the point I make on this is they change it every year. So they change the work every year. Like I thought that's quite a good event. I haven't done one. I've watched one, but that looks pretty cool. And what about SO do you want to also open doors or can this open doors of people that are really intimidated maybe by fitness competitions? The Joy of Participation and Personal Growth Yeah, definitely. And that's why we want to go into get this into gym owner's hands as well. Whereas you can meet people where they are, yeah, and let them kind. Speaker 1 Of comfortable for them in that environment. Speaker 2 Isn't it? Yeah, Yeah. And that's not just coming down from accessibility of the exercises, but it's also, as you just said, the environment and the fact that you might be able to have your first competitive experience in the own setting with your own mates and your own people. And you might say, that's enough for me, I'll leave it there. Or they, or you could actually jump into it and say, well, that was really good. I actually want to keep going and, and kind of go for that as well and carry on training that way. So yeah. And I think with the inclusivity side of it being baked into the actual scoring system, it's always easier to take the first step to do something if you're doing it with other people around you. And the fact that with the scoring system, anyone can do this together, it just opens up that door that you could actually go and get someone to do something with you. Like I've been trying to get my dad to do this. So is it my dad's been helping out build the business that it's, I'm almost looking at like you won't do the event. But I'm also thinking like in the future like try and get him to. I'm going to train him up so he won't let me hear most I'll be getting. Speaker 1 That's really cool. So how do people sign up for this event then? How do they actually sign up? People are listening right now and they think bench, squat, loving it, like let's go. How do I sign up? Speaker 2 So tickets are on sale on Eventbrite. So if you go onto the Challenger Co Instagram or you just go onto our website. Speaker 1 I'll put the links on here as well, Joe. Yeah, yeah, listening guys. I'll put the link on. If you're on YouTube, see the link. Encouraging First-Time Competitors If you're on Spotify, there'll be a link there for you. Speaker 2 Yeah. So if you go into www.thechallengercode or www.thehybridtotal.com, we've got a calculator as well where you could run through some of your scores. You could kind of see like what you might get already. And then you go into the Instagram, all the links are kind of on that onto the Eventbrite. We've got some like discounts as well, which we kind of want to push through to like independent gyms, basically like kind of like the CrossFit gyms and the the functional fitness kind of gyms. So we're already going around a couple of gyms starting literally Friday this week. So I've got a busy weekend in the Midlands area. But if you're not in the Midlands area or you are this first time here and it's just literally drop me Adm on that Instagram or drop me an e-mail Joe at the challenger co.com and we'll sort help you out with some entries as well. For us, like for us, this is a like starting point. So we really want to just get as many people as we can involved in this. And not not even just from like the functional fitness space. But there's I think there's a broader market here in terms of people who might be into sports or finish like playing sports at like a younger age and kind of looked at them for like, yeah, like that kind of looks like SNC training probably go do that competition. I think that that's how we kind of wanted to sit in that space of like we could pull people from there, pull people from there. And if we can kind of work with independent gyms, hopefully independent gyms can take that as well and they might get new members from there who they may not have got from the traditional CrossFit routes. Speaker 1 Yeah, no, that's great. So I've been on the website, yeah. And guys, listeners, you can go on. I want to make this really, really clear. And you can fill out the data. So for each workout, you can put your scores in right now. In fact, if you're listening, go and do it now. Go on the website and fill in your scores. I'm going to tell you what my score was, listeners, and then you can let me know if you beat my score or not. So I filled out the strength. Do you want to shout out the. I've got it written on here, but I've got my score written down. So the first first lift was. Speaker 2 Oh, you're about. Oh, sorry. So I just loaded up in another tablet. So yeah. So the first one is the squat format Max. Speaker 1 So squat. So 160 squat. Yeah. Next was bench. Yeah, yeah, bench. How to Sign Up and Get Involved Now currently I'm at about 90 to 95. My PB is 120. So what do I put in? Speaker 2 Well, you have to come on the day. Speaker 1 Let's say 95, let's say 95. No, let's say 100. I'm going to do 100, say 100. So we put in 100 next. Speaker 2 Deadlift. Speaker 1 Deadlift OK I hit PBA couple of weeks ago 202.5 nice. Now I don't think you can put .5 in the system yet. You should be able. Speaker 2 To on that calculator. If not, I will message. I'll message Lawrence and everybody else you update that. Speaker 1 So 20, if not 202. And then after that we've got the bike. Is it bike 10K bike first? Speaker 2 Yeah. Speaker 1 Yeah, OK. Speaker 2 So that's one of that's the concept two guys. Concept two. Yeah, because I've sent this to a few people and they're like pulled out numbers of like a what bike or what they've done on actual bike. I'm like, whoa, like Concept 2 bikes, they'll be different, so. Speaker 1 Let's say 20 minutes I. Speaker 2 Know you do, you'll do it quick on that. I could do it in 18 minutes like. Speaker 1 Yeah, I do. I would like to think I could break 1730, but unless they say 20 minutes, I haven't done that. I haven't done that test officially so. Speaker 2 I would if you take what your. What's your 5K roton? Speaker 1 1847 I think she's. Speaker 2 Probably going to be around that region. Speaker 1 Oh, OK. Yes, Yeah, that makes sense. That makes sense. OK, that's cool. And then we have the ski. Speaker 2 Yeah, 1K. Speaker 1 1K ski, yeah, I've never done a 1K ski before, but I know listen, it's going to it's going to be 2 by 500, it's going to be 4, let's say 3, let's say 345, three, 4340. I'd send it and then and then the run. I won't do, I'll just walk. I don't do running. Speaker 2 Rich Froning method, yeah. Speaker 1 The rich Froning when he walks. Yeah, but no, yeah, I don't know you. You can pick a tonne for me from a run. I don't know. I've run there a long, long time, mate. But I am going to sign up for the event, Joe. I'm going to Sign up today and I will. I'm actually on a holiday in Egypt, yeah, till the beginning of May, so it won't be the best training. Speaker 2 Hot weather. Speaker 1 Yeah. Speaker 2 That mile time is going to go up that so we can see that. Speaker 1 I might turn the mile into a fast walk. Speaker 2 Yeah. And I think one thing I'll say on that as well is that doing that because I think for some people who might be in the the functional fitness space or even slightly might be looking at like first competitions, they might see one Rep Max and think, oh, like a bit scared of it. Like what I would say with that is that that you are going to be doing that in a concept of a 90 minute kind of session. So yeah, that doesn't need to be like 7 attempts at the weight. Like it's more of a fact of like treat it as like a heavy single, like get it. And if you do have like an extra 5 KG in the tank, maybe save it because you don't need to bench and then you need to deadlift as well. And then you need to bike as well. So it'll be interesting just to see from a conversation point how people do take like that. I mean, when I ran through the testing, I didn't go to maximum unlike the bench and the deadlift. I cantered it in the tank and then I sent it on the bike because I was I'm 5/8. So I was like ski I'm ruined on anyway. And then on the bike, I mean on the run, I just, there's nothing left then. So you just go for it. Just red line on the on the yeah, on on the lifting. Don't be put off by the fact that it's a one Rep Max or anything like that. Just just take that as like, it's one Rep and it's going to be like. Speaker 1 Being a bit clever, being a bit clever with it, working out where your strengths are. So. So for me, I've just completed my first hybrid total and you actually get scores. What's the highest score you can get on each project 1000? Speaker 2 Yes. So it's out of technically like 999. So that would be 999 would be essentially a world record. Tips for Approaching Max Lifts in Competition So listeners, just say, you know, I'm going to let you know what my score was. We've been noting this down. My score was 9999. My score was 998. No. Speaker 2 It's out of 6000 as well, so actually awful score. Speaker 1 Crushed it. So I, I'm going to actually post my, my, my score online. So you'll have to have a look online and see what my score was or it's my pretend score. But when I compete, obviously on the 9th of May, I'll be there buddy. And I'm looking forward to the experience. I'm looking forward to to send in the bike. I'm looking forward to that and having some fun and also getting to, to taste that experience of what you're building at the beginning. For me, that's really exciting to come down and see you at the beginning of this journey and also to see how that grows over the next six months to a year to two years. So no, it's going to be going to be a lot of fun. Are you stressed about it or excited about it? Speaker 2 No comment. Speaker 1 It's funny because I was talking to Hornsey, who owns the Arnhem's, obviously set up the Arnhem's events and when I talk to him, he's always great fun to talk to. I always say how's it going? He's like don't ask, he's always dressed up to the Max, but great guy. Shout out to Bonsie and yeah, he's. Speaker 2 A he's a top guy. I went, I went to the Arnolds and, and I chatted because I chatted to him a few times and yeah, I saw that surf and I was like, that's, that's legit. Like how, how organised it was and how clean it was. But then also like the, there's an element, I think. I think it's on the Saturday afternoon where there was one person left and she had some rope climbs to do and it's running. Excitement and Anticipation for the Event The floor was like clapping. Speaker 1 For it, yeah. So I was in that heat so that I think it was a Sunday. I saw I was in the heat, or that might happen on Saturday as well. But in my heat, a lady, everyone got round her and she managed and she basically said no. And Rick went up to her, give her some cues, said you're doing it. And he got her back up and she did it. And it was an incredible atmosphere, such a good moment. It really, really was. And that's what fitness is about. Community the buzzword. Speaker 2 Yeah, I think as well like with our with what we're trying to build because because there's not necessarily like any categories or any kind of like pro tier or light tier like these don't you don't need to scale this in terms of like the, the, the equipment selection. What I've noticed from us doing is that it naturally just has a very supportive environment in it already because you have a lot of different people there. So it kind of naturally makes that kind of melting pot anyway. And I think sometimes like when you look at maybe some of the quote or maybe slightly more toxic environments, it does sometimes come from like just everyone of the same kind of categories in the same place and stuff. And even like my experience in weightlifting, like sometimes like the the top competitions, you almost like, well, guys like they get British champs, but like, come on, like, like they come on like we're all, we're all all in this together at the same time as well. It's like it doesn't need to be as aggressive. So I think, I think that's, that's what we're trying to foster with that. But at the same time like to do that, you also want to be able to make it open enough that if someone does really want to get after it, like we've got that support for them and we've got the same energy for that as well. Because I think sometimes you can get, you can loot, you can pick one or the other party sometimes. Speaker 1 It's a tough battle, so happy medium, such a tough line to manage where you want to make sure someone that maybe is top level or elite, they can go in there and actually feel like they're in a top competition. You've got the environment, the buzz, the crowd, but also for someone to go that hasn't competed before and not be too worried about going there. It's a really tough balance and that's your headache, not mine to worry about. Yeah, and I'm sure. Speaker 2 I think, I think that honestly, like, I feel like most of the time like those environments typically like if you just, if you've got quite a few people supporting like looking at some of the stuff that we got on the day, we've been very selective on who we put in certain places to make sure that those people do actually welcome people in from the very first time you step into the competition. Creating a Supportive and Energetic Environment It's like the front of house and stuff, make sure that's really important. But we just want to make sure that when you kind of come in, this is your kind of competition and it's your opportunity to get a really good score and have a really good time and challenge and challenge yourself because it is. Speaker 1 That's what it is. That's what it is. Speaker 2 It should be, it should be. The energy should be infectious as well. And that's what I mean like whenever you go into good training environments, everyone's cheering each other on. And it doesn't matter if it's a beginner or then first ever like PD, everyone should be cheering that person on and stuff. Because at the end of the day, if you, if you cheer me, I'm going to cheer you on and stuff. And it's the same. The energy is infectious, so. Speaker 1 It is, it is. And it sounds like I was. I'm really glad you've thought about that process because if someone goes to a live event and they get that feeling and they get that camaraderie, they get that energy from all the staff, it makes such a big difference to their day because a lot of people are going there to enjoy it. And I've been to a few events where it, not that it wasn't welcoming, but you know, it wasn't the experience I'd hoped to get just from a, a fun point of view and just people being positive around you rather than moaning about every little thing and just being helpful in general. I think that that helps a lot. So the fact that you thought about those things is really important. And listen, I look forward to attending the event. I'm going to do a vlog at the event and I'm going to stick it on the channel. And yeah, we'll, we'll obviously catch up at the event as well. And I really appreciate you coming on today to share this this this new idea. I think it's brilliant when people come at come at things and go, actually, I've got this idea. I'm going to put me effort into it and make it work. And not only make it work, but actually prove that it works. And you're already doing that. So the more people that can get on board, the better. And you don't know until you try something. Any GMO is listening. Any athletes are listening. You wanna try something new, just go and give it a go. You know, jump on the website, log in, sign up, have a go. And hopefully I'll see you there. And you might try and beat my score. You probably will. Yeah. But mate, it's it's, it's been a great conversation. I appreciate your time today and it's been given you a chance for the share about what your, your journey, what you've done and what you're doing. And we, we look forward to, you know, staying in touch and, and seeing how this develops. Really mate, and I wish you all the best in what you're doing because it sounds fantastic. Speaker 2 No thank you no thank you very much so and and so yeah anyone who wants to get involved 9th May or beyond literally just drop me Adm or drop me an e-mail. Reflections and Future Vision for Challenger Co I literally will reply that to you and chat to everyone about this. So yes, as you say, like this is my passion, so I'll talk to anyone about it so. Speaker 1 And it comes across that way, Joela. It comes across that way, people, by people, right? And you can see you're passionate about it. And that's very infectious. And I hope people both can come and give it a go. And I wish you all the very best listeners. Thank you so much for tuning in today. And Joe, thanks for joining the show. We will see you next time on Chase Pain podcast. We share some more journeys and celebrate people and fitness. But remember, if you haven't already, go and chase some pain. Closing Remarks and Call to Action Let's go bye.