Nike

Listeners, you should know, David and I were texting before this debating do we change this thing around do we play with this should we reorganize this section and he texted me let's just do it so in the honor of bad jokes by David Rosenthal. Here we go. Welcome to season 13 episode one of acquired the podcast about great technology companies and the stories and playbooks behind them. I'm Ben Gilbert. David Rosenthal. And we are your hosts. There's an age old question in business. What is more important? A great product or great marketing? Well, today we have literally the perfect case study in that very question in Nike does break through innovation drive that business or is their core competency really around their profound advertisements and their sponsorship deals with athletes and teams or they're probably best in the world brand positioning to understand it. We have to examine Nike's entire 60 year history of course because this is acquired and because shoe dog is so good that's amazing you got to start at the beginning. So really the question is what makes this company the single largest apparel business in the world today outside of luxury of course and how is it possible to be a shoe company that does over $50 billion in revenue when they technically don't make a single shoe. So you may think you know Nike from the movie air or shoe dog, but what hasn't been told is how those old stories tied to the gigantic shift in strategy that Nike is really in the middle of right now. Well LPs we got to thank you for voting for this episode. David and I have had it sort of in our episode backlog for two three years and when we put it up for a vote the overwhelming majority of you selected this as our next episode. If you also want to vote for future episodes and become an acquired LP that is acquired dot FM slash LP. If you want an update every time we drop a new episode so you don't miss it you can sign up at acquired dot FM slash email and we'll be dropping little Easter eggs in hints in those emails to tease about what the next episode is going to be. So that's acquired dot FM slash email don't miss a new episode and lastly make sure you check out a CQ to our second show where we interview people who are building their companies today. Available in any podcast player and without further ado listeners as always this show is not investment advice David and I may have investments in the companies we discuss and the show is for informational and entertainment purposes only David Rosenthal what is that stack of books on your desk. Oh my god I think Amazon owes a thank you know to acquired LPs because I bought every Nike book out there I mean might six foot long desk is covered in Nike books so fun to read all of them. I thought there was just shoot I didn't realize there was the literally over a dozen that you and I collectively read. There's so many of them I read thousands of pages but there are three books that all basically tell more or less the same story that we weave together to come up with our core acquired. Niki story here today and I'm bringing it up because it's actually pretty important what these three books are the first of course is she dog the goat business memoir of all time. The second is a book called just do it that was written by the journalist Donald cats been do you know who Donald cats is who I do not. So done after he wrote this book and I think he wrote one or two other books he had quite the career change he went on to found the company audible really isn't that crazy it's kind of cool that that was founded by a journalist. Yeah just wow so he wrote kind of the canonical third party journalist take on Nike and then the third book is a book called swoosh which I bet most people have not read but kind of like taste of luxury I think people who are really in the know in the footwear industry have read this book. It was written by one JB Strasser and her sister Laurie Beckland JB Strasser is Julie Strasser who was the wife of Rob Strasser now Rob if you've seen the movie air the character played by Jason Bateman is Rob Strasser Nike's legendary first head of marketing. The item among many that is not discussed in the movie is that Rob shortly after signing Jordan had an enormous fight with Phil night left the company with Peter Moore who was the designer behind Jordans and ended up joining Adidas as CEO of Adidas America just a few short years later. It's like an incredible betrayal. This is like a Judas level betrayal I mean to say he was persona non grad around Nike is understatement of the century and here is this book that was written in real time by his wife as this was all happening incredible. Yeah so Strasser will get into his contributions but he is probably second only to Phil night in willing Nike into existence. We start however with the shoe dog story the origin of blue ribbon sports and actually a little bit before shoe dog starts in July 1948 when one bill bowerman becomes the head track coach at the University of Oregon. Now bill was a legendary figure in addition to being Nike's co founder along with Phil night I mean kind of the only way to describe him is he was like a descendant of the survivors of the Oregon trail the cowards never started in the week died along the way was one of his favorite sayings yes. So bill's dad was the governor of Oregon and bill fought in World War two as a major and he actually negotiated at the end of the war the stand down of a German battalion. He's also such a character he lived going to remote mountain top in the Oregon mountains at the mail delivery people who would come up to his home kept knocking over his mailbox with their trucks. So he rigs the mailbox with explosives to blow up the truck the next time it happens and he literally blew up the truck. I mean the stuff you could get away with in the 50s they do not make them like that anymore know they do not. So when bill comes home after the war he first coaches high school and then he becomes the head track coach at the University of Oregon. He takes this background character that he has and he becomes maybe arguably the most successful track coach in American history. So I believe bill coaches the first American sub four minute mylers hands up coaching several Olympic teams he definitely turns the University of Oregon into the most prestigious track program in America. You know he's a national celebrity which is pretty crazy for Oregon in the 1940s 1950s. Right. So a few years into Bowerman's tenure as head coach he recruits a pretty talented middle distance runner freshman from Portland nearby one Phil Knight. Now Phil also has some interesting Oregon roots. He's the son of Bill Knight who is another well known University of Oregon alum. He was a former lawyer in Portland and he's the publisher of the Oregon Journal newspaper Phil follows in his dad's footsteps. He majors in journalism at Oregon and he runs for Bowerman and I would say Phil is OK as a runner. Well, it's interesting Phil Knight would describe himself in his prime as an OK runner because he was running with the best collegiate runners in the world coached by Bill Bowerman who barely gave Phil Knight the time of day. I get the sense he was not a man of many words and certainly almost no words of encouragement other than run faster. And so you've got Phil Knight the guy runs a four minute 13 second mile in his convinced he's OK. This is exactly what I was going to say I think any other school Phil would have been a star. This isn't really in shoe dog but I know Phil's personality from reading so much about him over the past couple weeks. I think he probably went to Oregon in part because he wasn't going to be a star there I mean he is I think the most introverted CEO that we have ever covered on acquired. I mean Rockefeller was pretty introverted but he looks like Elon Musk compared to Phil Knight. Yeah and a lot of the CEOs that show up in these acquired episodes are deeply private people but it's mostly because they want to stay out of the limelight and when they're in the limelight you can see that they can turn it on and they're bright and shiny and they're sort of loving working the room. That's not Phil Knight at all. Not at all. I mean I was super lucky I owe a huge thank you in my life to Phil Knight. I went to Stanford Business School. I was one of the first classes to graduate at the Knight Management Center that he endowed there. Didn't he give your graduation speech? Exactly. It was amazing. It was kind of the first draft of shoe dog that he had been working on the book came out a couple years later so great but I remember thinking this does not seem like the founder and CEO of Nike. Even here talking at Stanford the most warmly receptive audience possible like he was very nervous. Yeah. So Knight runs at Oregon and it's important to say we should note about that. He was definitely a person, a man like they don't make anymore, but despite what you might think, he wasn't militaristic. He really was pretty innovative. He was the first track coach, maybe college coach of any sport, who really put a focus on rest for his runners. And part of this famously for the Nike story, too, was technology and was shoes. So Bowerman actually taught himself how to be a cobbler and would take athletic shoes, usually a D-Dis athletic shoes and modify them or even build his own and then use his athletes as guinea pigs to any advantage that they could have. He would be looking for and shoes were part of it. And the technology that Bowerman was experimenting with was crazy stuff. He would rip shoes apart and he would rebuild them. This is from the Nike website with snake skin, deer hide or fish skin, goofy and crazy stuff. And his guinea pig was Phil Knight because Phil wasn't at the front of the pack so he gets sort of a forward to experiment on him. So very fortunate for Phil Knight and his future that he was not the fastest runner on the Oregon team. Exactly. This is where it all comes together. So after Phil graduates, he goes to business school right after undergrad to Stanford, just Stanford GSB hence the connection. He graduates from GSB in 1962. It's also crazy. Nike feels like such a modern company. This was a long time ago. So in Phil's final term there at Stanford, he takes what is then the only quote unquote entrepreneurship course at GSB. I mean, today there's like a hundred different entrepreneurship courses taught by the famous professor Frank Schallenberger who Knight gives tons of credit to for blue ribbon sports and ultimately Nike. And in the course for Knight's final paper, he writes the business plan for blue ribbon sports. Pretty much word for word. His thesis is that he knows from growing up with his dad and I think he actually maybe spent some summers at college and then at GSB working in the newsroom at the Oregon Journal. And he knows from the photography department that high end professional cameras had traditionally been the domain of the Germans. Leica was the most famous camera brand. And then at this point in time in the 50s and 60s, the Japanese are starting to enter the market. So Nikon was the big Japanese entrant Fuji Rico. Exactly. They made great cameras and they undercut Leica on prices by a huge amount. And he also knows about the sporting goods market from his time at Oregon and particularly being a test pilot as they would say for Bill's shoes. And actually the dynamics are pretty much exactly the same in the athletic goods market. There are two companies, both German, the Dominic sports equipment. One of course is Adidas or Adidas as the Germans would say. Yes, as we will get into in just a sec here. And the other one to a lesser extent was Puma. Now there was an American athletic apparel footwear maker in Converse and others. But Converse at the time was stuck in the Canvas shoe era, which was already like ancient history. So if you know Chuck Taylor, All Stars, you know the famous seminal Converse shoes, but if you had to guess, when do you think Chuck Taylor played basketball? Ooh, let's see. I think if I remember our NBA episode, the NBA was really getting go in like post-war. So like the 50s, I guess he was an early 50s NBA player. Yeah, you might think so contemporaneously with the time we're talking about right now. No, Chuck Taylor played professional basketball in the 1920s. Whoa, that's when the Chuck Taylor All Star technology is from. It's a Canvas shoe. By this point in time, the market had migrated to leather upper shoes of which Adidas or Adidas was the leading technology manufacturer of it. So anyway, basketball shoes wasn't really the market yet. It would become much, much later as we shall see. The market was running shoes. And it was like an okay market, but this was not the camera market. So Phil Knight's thesis here, it actually didn't get any sort of notice or praise famously from his classmates or even really from the faculty because they're like, okay, this is a good idea to apply Japanese low-ed disruption to the athletic apparel market and the footwear market. But this is not a big market. The market such as it existed was track shoes. Right. Think about how you would define a market size. There's not that many track athletes at any given point in history. So not that interesting. And it's worth maybe saying one word on the Adidas or Adidas story before we move back to Phil Knight and chewdog here because it's pretty crazy. So it's called Adidas because Adidas was founded by Adolf Dossler or Adi for short Adidas. Even like the 1920s? Yes. So after World War I when Germany was totally decimated, but before World War II, he becomes like a fairly well-known elite cobbler shoe purveyor, track cleat purveyor to Olympians at the time. So actually, ironically, I guess Jesse Owens wins the 1936 Olympics, the big American demonstration, literally beating Hitler in Berlin in Germany in Adidas shoes. And actually, that was Adidas or taking a big risk by sneaking a pair of Adidas shoes to someone who could get them to Jesse Owens like the night before his race. And Jesse Owens was like, oh, these are actually awesome. And so it was like a big sort of, uh-oh, is this going to be a problem for Adi when it comes out that the American one wearing German shoes? Interesting. I didn't know that part of the story. That makes sense because Adi's older brother, Rudy, worked with him in the business as did Adi's wife and son. After World War II, though, the two brothers have a huge acrimony split. Rudy goes off and starts a separate shoe company. It never came out what the fight was about, but one of the rumors is that Rudy went and fought in the Nazi army and Adi didn't. And maybe that might have, I don't know, but may have had something to do with it. Anyway, crazy. Rudy goes across town and starts a competing company after the war, named Puma. Craziest thing. Adidas, Adidas, and Puma are the two brothers. They're both the Dosseloy brothers. Crazy. Okay, so take us back to Phil Knight. Phil has this idea in this class in business school, this good idea, but small idea, to sell Japanese track shoes in the U.S. and undercut Adidas. In 1963, after he graduates, Phil decides that he's going to go off before he really starts life, he's going to go take a trip around the world and he convinces one of his buddies from GSB to go with him. They go first to Hawaii famously and the buddy meets a girl in Hawaii and is like, why would I leave Hawaii? Yeah, I mean, smart guy. Although he goes on to Japan and he's still thinking about this idea, when he's in Japan, he starts going to tracks in Tokyo and watching what people are wearing running around the tracks and he observes and he decides that the tiger brand shoes that he's seeing are the best. So he looks up the company that makes tigers, turns out they're made by a company called Onitsuka, which is based in Kobe in the south of Japan near Osaka, and Phil, for a desperate introvert, kind of crazily, this is how passionate he is about this idea, he gets it in his head that he's going to hop on a train from Tokyo and just go knock on their door and say hi to the Onitsuka Corporation and maybe ask them if he could import some of their shoes. So the story goes that he shows up on the door and I can only imagine what 23 year old Phil Knight is feeling as he's going through this. Well, this is the other side of Phil's personality where he's sort of a tortured soul. He's introverted, but he's unbelievably driven. He has a splinter in his mind where when his buddy's like, actually, this is pretty good, I'm going to stay in Hawaii. It feels like, but I'm longing for something. Yes. Something wrong with my existence in the world that needs to be fixed and I need to go and find out where I belong and what to do and how to change the world and how to build something. And I think he's got a motor that's just different than the way that other humans operate. I've been thinking a lot about, I think this is a David Sennra saying that the CEOs and the founders of these companies that we cover, that he covers, they are the Ginghis Khan's of our time and Phil doesn't present as a Ginghis Khan. Yes. But he still is. Deep down underneath all that introvert, he has that same drive that John Rockefeller had that an Elon Musk has that a Mark Zuckerberg has. And this unbelievably competitive spirit is the founding element of Nike's culture that permeates to this day. At Nike, you play to win and I think everyone shows up to work and you wear Nike stuff and you don't ever wear any of the competitors not to, hey, I want to try out this stuff. it's like, Hey, we don't do that here. That's playing for the other team. Get off the other team. You're on our team and you wake up every day and you show up to go to work and kick your competitors asses. And sometimes that takes them to questionable places that we'll talk about later in the episode. But Nike is among the most competitive cultures in the world. It's funny. You say Nike there is sort of founding principles because Nike isn't going to come for quite a while here while Phil is making this train trip down to Kobe. He suddenly has a realization his plan is he's going to show up at the door. He's going to say that he's an American businessman, you know, a distributor and he wants to distribute their shoes in America. Literally his business plan from the GSB class. He doesn't have a company though and he doesn't have a name for the company. So he has to think fast and come up with a name. And there are multiple conflicting stories about where the name comes from. The one that Phil tells is that the name Blue Ribbon Sports comes from him thinking back to his childhood days becoming a track athlete in middle school and high school. He talks about he got cut from the baseball team and his mom encouraged him to go out for track. And then the blue ribbons that he won at his track meets, you know, really helped define his personality. Very nice story. Very nice story. That's where the name comes from. The other story that appears in the other books is that Phil was out drinking the night before either drinking perhaps Blue Ribbon, PBR beers or I think more likely the other one that I read is Santori Blue Ribbon Whiskey, which is a Japanese whiskey brand. We saw a billboard or something like that and that that's where the name Blue Ribbon came from. As with any of these stories, we'll never know and it's probably some of both. Yes. Either way, perhaps driven by this drive to succeed. Phil puts on the performance of a lifetime in this meeting. He claims that he is a US businessman. From America, he's gone to Stanford Business School. He has a company called Blue Ribbon Sports. He wants to import their shoes. By the way, he ran track for the legendary Bill Bowerman, who of course they know. He tells them that he's done market research. He thinks that the US tracks you running shoe market could be a $1 billion market, which he totally makes up. He has no evidence to back this up whatsoever. He's done lots of market research. Lots of market research. And it is completely wrong in both directions. The actual US market for running shoes at this point in time, there's no way it was a billion dollars, like maybe a hundred million. Maybe, I mean, we just were talking about like, running was not a thing. It was a thing that athletes did. Right. And the running craze or the fitness craze hadn't really started yet. So to give you a sense, David, I think you're probably spot on with that, maybe a hundred million, maybe two hundred million for track shoes in the US. The branded athletic shoe market all up, including all sports for the whole US across all age groups, everything, two billion dollars. Right. So he's completely wrong on what it actually is at that point in time. He's also completely wrong on what it would become in the other direction. Thanks to Blue Ribbon and Nike. Right. They had a large hand in growing. And I'll spoil it for listeners. The branded athletic shoe market in the US today is a hundred and thirty billion dollars. Now, obviously not all of that is track and running, but like a large part is running shoes. And that's growing 5% year over a year. So still a growth market, even at that scale, which by the way, that number 130 billion, just to like compare it against some other things, that is bigger than the video game market. Wow. Hey, I mean, not everybody has to play video games, but everybody has to wear shoes. So night leaves this meeting, this performance of a lifetime. He gets an agreement from Onitsuka that if he wires them $50, they will send samples of the shoes to his office back in the States, ie his family home in Portland, Oregon. So first thing night does, he gets in touch with his dad. I don't know, he sends him like a telegram or something back in Portland and asked him to wire $50 to the Onitsuka Corporation of Japan for purchasing these samples. He gets home, I think it's two or three months later after this. Surely the shoes would have arrived, but surely the shoes would have arrived. He rushes home, says, hi mom, hi dad, did the shoes arrive? His dad's like, what shoes? The shoes did not arrive. The shoes would not arrive for almost another year. Wow. A little foreshadow again, what doing business with Onitsuka is going to be like for the fledgling blue ribbon sports. And this is just to like get some samples to see if he can sell $50 worth of shoes that takes over a year. So Phil gets home. He's disappointed. He's got to start his life. He gets in a job as an accountant. He's got a business school degree studying to take the CPA exams and become a licensed CPA. And then finally, at the end of 1963, I think right around Christmas, Phil writes in shoe dog, the samples show up and Phil gets them. They're great. They're what he remembers. He thinks, you know, these aren't quite maybe as good as Adidas, but they're good enough. And I can sell them cheaply enough that my business plan will work. Right. They're way cheaper. So Phil gets back and writes on it to us as great. I would like to be the US distributor for track and field shoes. And Onitsuka says, okay, great. You can be the distributor for the Western United States. We already have somebody that we're working with on the East Coast, but you can have the Western 13 states. Phil's like, great. He quits his accounting job. He starts the company. He goes to work. He hires one of his twin younger sisters, who I think was maybe still in high school to help him part time with receiving the inventory and sending them out and stuff. The naivete is just dripping off of Phil at this point. It's like, oh, good. I have a business. So surely I will make enough money to be able to quit my job and hire people. Yes. And now he doesn't have enough money to open a retail outlet or even really to get enough inventory to sell wholesale to other retailers. So his genius business plan, I don't know how much of this was part of the Stanford paper or not, is he's going to drive around to track meets in Oregon and up and down the West Coast and sell the shoes out of his car. Pretty awesome. That's like legitimately doing the shoe leather work that no one else is willing to do and getting through that hard part to get your business off the ground, establishing proprietary distribution channels. Yes. Speaking of proprietary, he also has another actually really great idea, which is that while he's driving around, he'll go down to Eugene and see his old coach, Bowerman, at the University of Oregon. And he thinks, oh, if I could get Bill to put his runners in tigers, then that would be great marketing for me. And I know he's not always super happy with the detest. We're going to have a better relationship. He'll be able to experiment with these shoes and I'll sell them to him for cheap because at this point in time, even the legendary Bill Bowerman and the University of Oregon, they bought all the shoes. Nobody was giving them shoes. It was like a major line item in their budget. Crazy. And so let's just take a quick pause and recognize this company that would eventually become Nike started a not as Nike, be not with a swoosh, see not making a product. It's literally just importing and reselling someone else's product. And the plan is to build a big business off the back of not actually making things. Not exactly what GSB or any other business school would determine a recipe for success here. But maybe that penciled more at the time being in this super globalized world that we're in now with the internet and companies with these massive resources that can scale immediately, adventure capital. Exactly, adventure capital, which can just supercharge a company's growth if something's working. The idea that your core competency is just distributing someone else's product among a geographic area where you have a relationship with customers, that might have actually been a pretty good plan and much more defensible in a way that it's much harder to build something like that from scratch now. That's a super good point. And it turned out actually that on Itsuka had already studied the US market, whether they agreed with Phil's plucked out a thin air market size or not. They wanted to enter the market, but they didn't think they could do it on their own. So they actually were looking for somebody like Phil. Yep. So Phil goes down to see Bowerman. And to Phil's surprise, I mean, Bowerman is not a warm and fuzzy guy. He's never really shown Phil much encouragement when he ran for him or since Bowerman says, "This is a pretty good idea. Not only do I want the shoes for cheap, I want you to cut me in on the deal. I want to be partners with you in this company." And Phil is like "Florid." And like real partners, 50/50-ish. It's not like I want you to like toss me a percent here there for being an advisor or something. It's like, "Okay, great. Co-founders? Just like that." So Phil's like, "What's the deal you have in mind?" I think originally, Bowerman says 50/50, and then he sleeps on it and he comes back with his lawyer and he says, "Actually, let's do 51/49. I want you to have 51 meetup be 49 because I don't really want to be involved here." Now, on the one hand, this is super exploratory of Bowerman, of his old athlete that still obviously looks up to him like a father. It's kind of like there weren't really VCs yet in this era, but when there would be like VCs taking 50, 60, 70% of the company, on the other hand, this is a no-brainer yes for Phil. Right. He's giddy about it. He's like, oh, only half the company? Great. Well, and if Phil doesn't do this deal, he would have 100% of Phil Knight's Blue Ribbon Sports, but he does do the deal and he gets 51% of Bill Bowerman's Blue Ribbon Sports, which is a completely different animal. Yes. So I was thinking about this. After reading Shudog, I was like, hmm, because I'm just right after the second time, it just feels a little weird that Bowerman would just kind of immediately be like, yes, I'll go into business with you, person who ran for me that I never had a particularly close relationship with. And so I've always wondered, like, why was he so eager to do this? And as part of the research, I stumbled upon this guy named Scott Reems, who was formerly a Nike historian. He worked in the marketing department and then for over 20 years, worked at Nike and became the company historian. He has an epic set of LinkedIn posts that are really like these incredible gems pointing out things in company history. And so he's got this post. He says, based on letters in the University of Oregon and Nike archives, Bill Bowerman corresponded directly with many footwear manufacturers in the 1950s. So like 15 plus years before this, including Adidasler directly to Adidasler, trying to purchase shoes for his runners directly to avoid retail markup. He made it clear he had ideas on how to make running shoes better. Remember, these are in letters to Adidasler years before. The responses he received referred him to footwear distributors in the United States for Adidas and ignored his design offer. So Bowerman is sitting there and he is primed. He's like, oh, you're going to import foreign shoes and give me a deal. I'm in just like on it's echo was primed to receive young Phil night. So was Bowerman bed, bed. This is so awesome. I was going to save this for a reveal later in the episode Scott Reems is legendary. He was, as you say, Nike's corporate historian, he worked super closely with Phil on writing shoe dog. Oh, did you read his post too? I sent you his LinkedIn. Did you look through them all too? Not only I sent him a message on LinkedIn, I talked to I spent hours talking to Scott. Really? He spent a few days helping me put our version, acquired version of the Nike story together. We have a huge, huge thank you to him, but I was going to surprise you with this. This is super cool. That is so awesome. Oh, that's so cool. I guess I should tell you. So listeners, we talked to like nearly a dozen people to prepare for this episode. I also want to thank Eric Sprunk, who is a 27 year Nike veteran and David. You know that I chat with him, but he was COO until a couple of years ago and very cool to get his perspective and Scott's perspective. I'm curious if you any other nuggets that come up too. Oh, I've got one in particular that I want to bring Scott's perspective in, but it's a little farther in the story. Great. All right. We've got 51 night, 49 barmen in Blue Ribbon Sports. They each put in $500 to finance the first big shipment of inventory of tigers from Monizika. And they do, they meaning fill, does what he intended to do. He drives around, to track meets around the Pacific Northwest and sells them out of the back of his car. And even with that funny sales strategy, and in Shudog, Phil talks about this while he was in Hawaii with his buddy. The way they made money was they sold in Cyclopedia's door to door and then Phil gets a job as a stockbroker trying to sell stocks. He doesn't make any sale. He's the most introverted person in the world. He can't be a salesman. But for some reason, when he's selling shoes, when he's doing his crazy idea, he can literally just go to track meets and convince kids and their parents to buy these shoes out of the back of his car. When you believe in something, sales are just natural. It's so true. So they sell out basically immediately and then they plow all the profit that they're making back into the next orders of inventory from Monizika. So they do $8,000 in revenue in 1964, that doubles in 1965, they do $16,000 in revenue. But Ben, as I think you're about to say, there's kind of a problem here. Well, there's a few problems, one of which is they're not making that much money. It's not a great gross margin business. You have to pay to import these shoes from Japan. How much can you really mark them up to sell them? And if you're making, I don't know, two, three bucks profit, something like that on each pair of shoes, you have to sell a lot of shoes if your only way to get money to buy more inventory is the profits from the shoes that you sold last order. I don't even know how you double year over year because where's the money coming from to get the inventory? This is not a solvable problem. It's a circular issue. There's no way to do it, so Phil is selling the Tigers for $6.95 a pair. It costs him and Bowerman about $3.50 to get each pair of shoes. So that leaves about $3.50. Pretty soon Phil hires his first full-time employee, the legendary Jeff Johnson, who has a huge role in Nike, as we shall see. Once Jeff and other sales reps come on board, he's giving them about $1.75 in commissions. So half the gross margin ends up going into sales and marketing expenses. Exactly. So that leaves what a buck $75, maybe $2, like you said, in profit, prepare. How are you going to order more inventory at $3.50 a pair when you're making $2.00 in profit, prepare? The math doesn't pencil. Wow. Quick aside on Jeff Johnson. Like we said, he is absolutely legendary. He also sells out of the back of his car. He's based in California. He met Knight at Stanford. Jeff was a Stanford undergrad who ran track and met Knight, well, he was at GSB. Johnson sells out of the back of his car. He evangelizes the brand. He designs shoes. He eventually opens Nike's first retail store in LA. He sets up manufacturing. He moves back and forth across the country. He is basically like everything you would ever want in a first employee at a company. To find that Jeff Johnson is the most incredible thing that could ever happen to a startup company. And he has an irrational passion for running, which basically no one else did at the time. Here's a great quote from shoe dogs, so it's in Phil Knight's voice. In 1965, running wasn't even a sport. It wasn't popular. It wasn't unpopular. It just was to go out for a three mile run with something weirdos did, presumably to burn off their manic energy, running for pleasure, running for exercise, running for endorphins, running to live better and longer. These were things that were unheard of. People went out of their way to mock runners. Drivers would slow down and honk their horns. Get a horse. They'd yell throwing a beer or soda at the runner's head. And he goes on to say that Johnson had many sodas thrown at his head while he was outrunning. This is one of the moments that just floored me rereading shoe dog and internalizing that, you know, running. I go for a run maybe three times a week these days. Right. It's just normalized into life. Every time I walk out in the street, basically anywhere in the world, unless I'm like truly in the middle of nowhere, you see people running. And the idea that motorists would throw beer and soda cans at runners is crazy. Yeah. Totally wild. So back to this financing issue. As you can imagine, the only way to grow as a company with the set of operating constraints that Blue Ribbon Sports has is through financing. And the only way to get financing in Portland, Oregon in those days was to go to Oregon regional banks. I think actually there were laws in the US that corporate banking could not happen across state lines. Correct. Like two or three banks that night, even has the option of going to. Yep. And by the way, when you're going to get money from the bank, it's not equity capital. They're not saying like a venture capitalist would say, oh, well, buy a piece of your business and value it at this and give you the money at that. It's just pure loan that you owe back to them at some point in time with interest. Yep. And the bankers who were making these loans in Portland then was a very, very small town and in a very, very small state on the west coast of the US, they're not going to be very risk seeking. They're going to be quite risk averse. So there's another good passage that I grabbed from shoe dog that explains this. Filmmite. I was projecting $16,000 in my second year. And according to my banker, this was a very troubling trend. A 100% increase in sales is troubling. I asked your rate of growth is too fast for your equity. He said, growth off your balance sheet is dangerous. And this is where Filmmites complete opposite approach comes and he goes, life is growth. Business is growth. You grow or you die. And the banker says, that's not how we see it. And there's a couple of important points to make in here. One of which is this equity they're referring to. We refer to equity these days, especially in startup land as percentage points in a startup. And what he's talking about here is the technical definition of equity. The book value of equity. Right. assets minus your total liabilities is your equity and in many cases you can sort of squint at this if you don't have a lot of liabilities or a lot of debt on your books and say, "Okay, so it's basically like the cash in the bank. It's the assets you have on hand as your equity." So what this banker is basically saying to Phil Knight is, "I will only loan you up to the amount of money that I already know you have." Yep. Now, that's not terribly helpful. It's basically a cash advance. It's like, "Well, the money that I have is sort of tied up in other stuff, like inventory, and you're just loaning me enough money for me to make my next order, but there's not actually any real new capital." It's not like there's a post-money valuation. You're basically just saying, "You can borrow these dollars, then you can give them back to me, and I'm going to cap your dollar limit super low." Yeah. It's basically factoring. Right. Is what it's known as today. Right. So, yeah, as you can imagine, there are quite a lot of struggles with the various banks in Oregon, and it's all very well chronicled in Shudog. So, since growth is literally rate limited by the banks, Knight decides that he can't justify taking a salary. He goes back to being an accountant by day. He joins Pricewaterhouse in the Portland office. He does that for a couple years. I mean, years, years takes a long time to grow this thing. Eventually, Blue Ribbon does become big enough, and he needs to devote enough time to it that he can't be a full-time accountant. So, instead, he gets a job teaching accounting at Portland State, where he meets two women, both of which will change his life. The first one is a student. I mean, things were different in the '60s. A student in his first class that he teaches named Petting Parks, who he sees has a great potential as an accountant. So, he hires her as a bookkeeper. Part time while she's a student, I believe, for Blue Ribbon sports. Very shortly thereafter, she becomes penny Knight, his wife. Now, I think of, gosh, like, 60 years, maybe something like that. The other woman he meets is an art student, not an accountant. An art student named Carolyn Davidson. And Phil over here is here talking with some friends in the hallway one day talking about art classes, and he stops her and he says, "Hey, I've got a company. We need some part-time art and design work for, like, brochures and sponsorship collateral." Because everyone's telling him that he needs to do advertising. Phil Knight to this point, which is hilarious, given Nike today, doesn't believe in advertising. And so, he's like, fine. I'll give in to some other people who are advising me that I should make some brochures or something. And the way I'm going to do it is I'm going to hire a part-time student from Portland State to do my advertising collateral for two dollars an hour. Yes. She says, sure. Put a pin in that. We are going to come back to Carolyn Davidson and the Nike Art Department in a minute here. Yes. All right, listeners. Now is a great time to tell you about a long time friend of the show, Vanta. AI has scrambled the whole security picture. It used to be that you proved that you were secure once a year on audit or a static PDF that everyone would not, and you're done. But in an AI first world, that doesn't hold up anymore. Yep. Your risk surface changes every week now. A vendor turns on an AI feature or someone writes in a new model without telling IT, and your posture is different than it was last week, let alone at your last audit. Vanta's own research found that around 70% of companies have this "shadow AI running with no security review at all." Right. And that's where Vanta comes in. They're the leading agent trust platform, meaning they've built the thing that closes the gap. And the way that they close that gap is Vanta agent. Think of it as a GRC engineer that's governance risk and compliance, except that it's software and it doesn't sleep. It finds the issues drafts the fixes and cuts the time that you'd spend on vendor assessments in half. In half, which is exactly why more than 16,000 companies today run on Vanta. Companies like Ramp, Cursor, and Snowflake all stay audit-ready and catch the risks that crop up between audits across every vendor, every AI tool, the whole environment. And that's the real value. Trust has to be continuous now, which is why Vanta automates your security, your compliance, and the work to earn and prove trust. We're huge fans of Vanta over here, and literally hundreds of acquired listeners have become Vanta customers at their companies over the years. So you can get $1,000 off of Vanta at Vanta.com/acquired. That's V-A-N-T-A dot com/acquired for $1,000 off and just tell them that Ben and David sent you. Okay, David. So should we share the Carolyn Davidson thing now or don't we need to evolve Nike a little bit more before it really comes into play? Yeah, put a pin in it. We'll come back to it. So in the meantime, by hooker, by crook, and maybe Onitsuka, as we will see, would argue, by crook. Blue Ribbon Sports' sales do keep growing. They do keep getting just enough and just enough in time financing to finance their inventory and orders from Tiger and Onitsuka. In 1966, they do $44,000 in revenue. In 1967, they do $84,000 in revenue, noticing a doubling theme here. Turns out, even from a very low base, if you double every year for like 20 years, you can still become a big company. So then, in 1967, Bowerman. Remember, you know, Bowerman's been involved, his name, his association with the company has been huge throughout all this. But like you were saying, a minute ago Ben, his real motivation is he wants R&D access. He wants to be able to make shoes. And in 1967, ahead of the 1968 Mexico City Olympics, he comes up with a new idea for an entirely new type of shoe, one that he probably can't really manufacture on his own. But now he has this relationship with Tiger with Onitsuka. And his idea is that rather than leather on the upper parts of these track shoes, what if we instead use a breathable material like nylon, so that my runner's feet aren't sweating throughout the whole race? On the one hand, like, guess nobody likes sweaty feet. On the other hand, if your feet sweat a lot in leather shoes over the course of several miles, well, they're going to get heavier and weigh down. And so maybe this might help the shoes stay later. And Bowerman is obsessed with lightweight in his shoes. So Onitsuka is very receptive to this, they think, great, we love this. We'll make the shoe. We can do that. We can source the nylon. We'll make the shoe. So Bowerman and Phil get together, like, this is amazing. We're going to have our own model, you know, that we've designed the Bowerman's design, which you should already start to get a little bit nervous here, because it's like, well, okay, who owns this shoe? Exactly. Well, that would be for the courts to decide. Is it like the blue ribbon shoes design company owns the design and they hired a contract manufacturer, or is it more like, oh, we just gave you a little suggestion idea. And like, we BRS don't own anything. Yep. The relationship complicates a little bit here. It's no longer just, hey, we're the American distributor of tigers. So Bowerman and Phil want to call the shoe. They actually want to borrow from the Adidas playbook and call the shoe, the Aztec ahead of the Mexico City Olympics. Adidas has been doing this for years. They always come out with new shoe models ahead of whatever the Olympics is in the world every four years. Adidas, of course, has already beaten them to the punch. They have trademarked a shoe that they're coming out with called the Azteca gold. And I don't know if it's blue ribbon or on Zika decides that the Aztec is too close to that. So legend has it, you know, knowing so good. These men, I assume this is quite true. Bowerman is casting a bout for other ideas for names of the shoe. And he says tonight, what was the name of that Spanish guy that kicked the, you know what out of the Aztecs? And I just like, oh, that's Cortez. And thus, the blue ribbon slash tiger Cortez is born naming aside the nylon uppers are a huge innovation. And this becomes a big hit. I bet someone out there is wearing Nike Cortez's right now. It's become like a lifestyle shoe and less of a running shoe because the definition of a running shoe has changed dramatically. And so the fascinating thing is, if you look down at your Nike Cortez or you Google a picture of it, it's basically exactly the same as the thing that they came out with. But when they came out, it had the only Tsuka now A6 design on it, not the swoosh. Yeah, spoiler alert, tiger eventually became A6. Yes. So also in 1967, Bowerman has another just monumental contribution. His contributions, those sporadic when they happen are enormous. Yeah. So he writes a book. I feel like some marketing agency these days would advise a startup on, oh, yeah, this is how you build a market, you know, write a book, start an evangelized movement. Bowerman just does this because it's what he wants to do. He had gone on a trip to visit another international track coach in New Zealand a few years earlier. And he discovers the concept of jogging. I don't even know if the word jogging really existed in America at this point in time. The idea of running not to win, but to run for joy or for physical fitness was entirely foreign concept. All right. I'm going to read a paragraph from shoe dog here. This is Phil Knight. He told me on top of everything else, he was also writing a book. A book, I said about jogging, he said, roughly, Bowerman, Norman was forever gripping that people make the mistake of thinking only elite Olympians are athletes. But everyone's an athlete, he said, "If you have a body, then you're an athlete. Now he was determined to get this point across to a larger audience, the reading public. Sound interesting," I said, but I thought my old coach had popped out a screw, who the heck would want to read a book about jogging. "This is Phil Knight, the founder of Nike." "Right. I mean, even Phil Knight is like jogging. That's crazy." So Bowerman writes this book, it's called "Jogging, a physical fitness program for all ages." He writes the book, it comes out in 1967. Life magazine, life magazine was huge in America at the time. They come out to Oregon and they write a profile of him and his jogging clubs that he started for the citizens of Eugene of all ages to get into jogging and physical fitness. And by God, as much as anything, this book and this article is what starts the fitness movement in America. Yep. It's the craziest thing. I keep going back and forth when looking at Nike and say, "Did they benefit from this enormous wave that they were writing, or did they create a wave?" And I think it was actually both. Yes. So Knight has this great quote about this later in life, he's asked, "Literally, this question, if Nike started the fitness revolution." And his answer is so typically, Phil Knight, he says, "We were at least right there and we sure wrote it for one hell of a ride." I love it. Here's a crazy bit of trivia, David. So for me, when I reflect back on the birth of the jogging movement because I'm a millennial and I wasn't there, I think of Forest Gump, he's running across America and all these people are running with him and that time and that aesthetic to me is like, "Oh, that's when jogging sort of really took off." He was wearing Nike Cortez's. Yeah. Perfect. So great. And the fact that Blue Ribbon really did have, starting to become pretty real distribution at this point to the West Coast, they actually had built a brand and a trustworthyness with customers and coaches and that sort of thing for themselves that not only could Bowerman write the book and evangelize and have the idea, but they could actually get shoes onto the feet of people because out of this budding company, they actually had a little bit of distribution. And more than just athletes. Yeah. Or more importantly, changing the definition of athlete. Yes. I like that. Changing the definition. More than just people who define themselves by their occupation, whether amateur, professional as athletes, right. So by 1970, just a short while after this, Blue Ribbon is now doing over half a million dollars in annual sales. So they're like a real company now. They're selling out of the Cortez's literally as fast as they can get them off the boats from Japan. Onitsuka, Renews, Blue Ribbon's distribution agreement in 1970 for three more years to run through 1973. When this happens, Phil then goes to the bankers in Oregon and asks for, "Hey, you know, great." And Tes is selling out great fitness is this new thing. We're a half a million dollar revenue company. We've got a three year ironclad deal with our manufacturer. Surely, you could assign some value to that contract. If not to our brand and our team and all these other intangibles, you won't just treat as as if we're book value now. Like we'll have some real enterprise value because you can invest in our enterprise here, our enduring institution. So he asks for a line of credit of $1.2 million to finance inventory. He never asked for a over a million dollar line of credit before. He trips the alarms. He trips the alarm system. $1.2 million. A kid off the street can literally walk down San Hill and raise $1.2 million today. Inflation adjusted, it's probably like $8 million or something. Sure. Whatever. But a kid off the street can walk at a Stanford and raise $8 million today. Exactly. Let's say it's an AI company. So the bankers, not literally, although literally they would do this very shortly thereafter, they throw him out. They're like, no, no, no, no, we're done here. You can't be doing this. We're done. I'm just fascinated by this concept of, it's almost as if the idea of enterprise value didn't exist that literally a company could only possibly be thought of as its assets minus its liabilities. So what that meant was if you want to grow your company and you want to grow it as fast as possible, then it means you can only take out as much debt as you have assets in the company. But you probably shouldn't because then if anything goes wrong, your company is like immediately wiped out because your debt to assets ratio is like literally a hundred. And what Phil Knight did was all of the time kept it at a 100% ratio or close to it like a 90% ratio. He'd look and see how many assets they had and say, great. We should have exactly that much debt too, so I can grow as fast as possible. And so it kind of becomes this game of musical chairs where when you're levered that hard, you need to be growing super fast because you need to get that inventory off the boat sell it so you can as fast as possible go and pay off the bank so that a, the interest doesn't pile up and you don't trip a bunch of covenants, but b, so that then you can go ask them for another loan to do the same thing again and you literally need growth as the only way to keep the lights on. It's not just growth as a virtue, it's growth as a necessity. And this in addition to the competitive thing I mentioned earlier where Nike is a competitive company, Nike is a growth company. And if you go to their investor relations page to this day across the top in big bold letters, it says Nike Inc is a growth company. They were born out of this is the only possible way to continue our existence is grow so we can pay off the bankers to things here. One, this is so sad. That's the way it was and thank God the business world has evolved since then. I mean, you can decry the ridiculousness of startups and VC and tech and all that now, but this is a way better alternative than the way things used to be to, though, ironically I actually, as crazy as this sounds, think it was a critical element of Nike succeeding and becoming Nike because if it were too easy, there would have been a flood of other competitors or on it's who got others would have just done this themselves, right? It's like many of the stories we tell that it's path dependent, the only way to have built what they built was to have endured what they endured in a system that was stacked against them. There's huge survivorship bias here, but the journey that they had to go through to survive is incredible. Plenty of other companies maxed out their available credit and debt all the time and had a 100 percent liabilities to assets ratio and went out of business and went under yes and Nike almost does. When this happens when he gets thrown out of the banks, Phil needs to do something to raise money, so he decides the only thing he can think of is to do a small public offering, like a local IPO. Remember how Ben and Jerry's was the first direct listing? Yeah, I think it's something like that where they sold shares, Ben and Jerry's sold shares in Vermont to like their neighbors. This is what Phil wants to do and this is how bad it is. So, hey, he changes the name of the company. This is so good. Nike isn't anywhere in the picture yet. He changes the name of the company to sports, dash, tech, T.E.K. With the idea that, oh, this will make it sound like a technology company and then people will be interested in investing. Because he hears that people are getting financing for their business in the form of equity capital where they're willing to assign a valuation to the company and regardless of what your current sales and assets look like, that sort of takes your potential future growth into account and gives you capital in exchange for that. What they want is a percent of the upside, you know, equity investing as we know it today in startups and all of that is happening in Northern California into tech companies as we chronicled on the Sequoia episode with Don Valentine. It's that era. Exactly. We are right in that era now. Don is about to start. Sequoia, a lot of this is happening around Stanford. Of course Phil up in Oregon is hearing about this. But once anybody, you know, any proto venture capitalist digs into sports tech, they're going really like, no. So what I've never been able to figure out is did he change it to sports tech ink and then change it back to blue ribbon sports, or did they sort of like, I'm trying to figure out if they ever literally changed the name on documents. Oh, that's a great question for Scout Reims. We'll have to ask everyone. Yeah, yeah. So, this is how bad it is though. The offering fails. Nobody's interested. None of these proto VCs, none of the local business people in Portland. They're all like, oh, no, no, this is a terrible company. Well, and Phil might undersells it too. But before he learns some of his later lessons, it's his super humble, you know, I'm not a very good runner. I'm only a 413 mileer type attitude. Right. Oh, shucks. Yeah. And so that's not going to sell shares in your company. Yep. So, he ultimately has to raise some money from the families of some of the employees at Blue Ribbon, most famously, Bob Woodell, who would become Nike's first president other than Phil. When Phil takes a sabbatical later in the 80s, Bob is this amazing story. He was also a bowerman runner, had a terrible accident in college and was confined to a wheelchair for the rest of his life, becomes one of Nike's and Blue Ribbon's first employees, and then becomes a huge leader, built so many things at the company. and becomes the first president, other than Phil. But he doesn't come from wealth and his family loans, I think, three or $5,000 to Blue Ribbon, like a huge amount of money for them. - It's like a huge amount of the family's net worth. - Phil would convert that into equity before the actual IPO, and they would become millionaires and change their lives. - It's amazing. Yeah, the way that he was financing this was basically through convertible debt. And so all the pre-IPO, little friends and family financings that he's doing here are convertible notes. - So this brings us to 1971, the Anis, either Mirabellus or Haribla, depending on how you want to think about it. I just butchered both Latin and French there. But clearly, this financing path isn't gonna work for the next stage of growth. Eventually, night, I think he reads in either a magazine or a newspaper article about Japanese trading companies. How he had never heard of Japanese trading companies before then, given the amount of business he was doing in Japan is crazy. Although it wasn't only Tsukas' strong interest for Phil and Blue Ribbon not to find out about Japanese trading companies as we shall see. - And what they are is this very strange type of company that we don't really have, at least in the tech ecosystem today. - No, does not exist in America or in most countries. - And it's sort of a hybrid between a lender and a supply chain partner, where it's a company that has some primary business that they're doing. - Slash private equity firm/holding company. - Yes, it's a company that in this particular instance has a business that they're in and generates a bunch of cash. So what do you do with the company's treasury? Well, you could do boring stuff with it, or you could make strategic investments with it, or you could operate a financing business where you leverage all of the unique relationships you have from the parent company to do diligence, to advantage your investments, to put your foot on the scale, and you're using the fact that you have a large treasury to open a competitively advantaged bank, especially in sourcing international goods. - Yes, to do asset-based financing, exactly what Blue Ribbon needs. So the company that he ends up meeting at the local branch office of it in Portland, I think they might have been the only Japanese trading company with a branch office in Portland is Nishio Iwai, which is one of the smaller ones. Today, the company is called Sojits. Today, it is still a $40 billion revenue company. Back then, in 1971, it was a $100 billion annual revenue company. And it was, I think, the sixth largest Japanese trading company. The other ones that many listeners probably will have heard of are companies like Mitsubishi, or Mitsui, or Sumitomo. These are enormous companies, and especially in the '70s, as Japan was really rising. We told the story on the Sony episode. Nishio Iwai was a godsend for Blue Ribbon. - And it could have gone either way. That was the thing with these Japanese trading companies is if you weren't super clear on exactly what you wanted up front, it could totally go the way of private equity, where, oh, you tripped one, covenant, or up, you, this, that, the other thing. And suddenly, they're able to own a controlling interest of your company, or they're able to take over management and install their own people. It was a PE style financing where oftentimes, they would sort of take over and absorb the businesses that they were financing. So, Phil Knight was going into this saying, okay, that really, really, really can't happen to Blue Ribbon. What can I possibly negotiate with these guys to make it so that their interests are aligned with mine, but not in a way that could compromise my control? - Right, 'cause he gets a little spooked. According to Shudog, Phil walks into the office of Nishio Iwai in Portland. This is like the Portland Oregon branch office of Nishio Iwai meets with one of the officers there who would go on to become an incredible personal relationship for Nike and for Phil, a guy named Tom Sumeragi. And he offers on the spot to finance all of Nike's inventory on the spot in a meeting in the branch office in Portland. So Phil's like, whoa, how do I deal with these guys? - Right, they're a little too eager. This can't be that good of a deal what's going on here. - It turns out ultimately it's a great deal. - And why is it a great deal? Well, the first thing you have to know is Nishio knows Japanese manufacturers. And so they start asking Phil Knight questions like, well, who do you work with in Japan? And like, would you ever make your own shoes? And are you looking for relationships with more factories? And so they start to get the sense that like, oh, maybe eventually we could put our foot on the scale in certain ways and help this company win. And so if we're doing business with them as their financing partner, this could be really good for us too. - So Phil, in retrospect, makes the mistake of calling up on its Yuka and saying, hey, you know, I'm in this lurch with financing. I just met Nishio Y. They offered to finance all my orders with you guys. Would you be okay if I do it? And they immediately say, absolutely not. (laughing) And the reason they say absolutely not is Ben, just like you're saying, they know what's gonna happen here is Nishio is gonna say to Phil, hey, you know, this is nice that you're buying Onizuka's inventory. Onizuka, I think it's like a 20, 30, maybe $40 million revenue company in Kobe at this point in time. - Right, this could creep into us. - Nishio is a hundred billion dollar company, right? Nishio is gonna say, hey, we'll introduce you to manufacturers, to factories here in Japan. Build your own shoes, make your own brand, screw these tiger guys. And that is exactly what happens. - All right, listeners. Now is a great time to thank our long time friend of the show, ServiceNow. 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But the question is, who's managing them all? - So if you're trying to turn AI ambition into real business outcomes and make it work safely, securely at scale, go check out ServiceNow.com/acquired, and tell them that Ben and David sent you. - Okay, so Blue Ribbons in this interesting situation where they've been kicked out of their bank from a lending perspective. They can still keep their money there. They stole the operating accounts, but they can't get any more debt there to finance their inventory, which they need to buy. They need this cash to be able to buy their next round to grow the company. Nisha enters the picture. How does it go from here? - So this basically sets off a whole chain of events that would later get prosecuted in court. So Onitsuka, as we said, they are super nervous. They know what this Nisha relationship is going to mean for Blue Ribbon and it's not good for them. So they start looking around at working with other potential distributors in the US. They assume that Blue Ribbon one way or another is going to end their relationship with them here. They also, as kind of a last ditch effort, make an offer to buy Phil out, to buy Blue Ribbon. And Phil thinks he's being smart here. He stalls. He doesn't say yes. He doesn't say no. He's like, oh, let me talk to Bowerman. - Yes. And one thing I was trying to figure out. So in Shudog, it doesn't give a value. Phil just says that his contact at Onitsuka offers to buy 51% of Blue Ribbon and keep him as a minority partner. And from some other sources, what Phil Knight says in interviews is that they offered to buy it for book value. - Yes, that's what I read too. Which I imagine is like zero. - So it's a pretty terrible deal. 'Cause what is the book value of a company that 100% of the time has its capital tied up in inventory? - Right, it's zero. - So it's zero or most generously, it's the value of the inventory. So in 1971, I believe they did 1.3 million in revenue, which best estimates would be that their cost was something like $6,700,000. - Right, but they probably turned to that inventory several times. So at any given point in time, the inventory is less than that. - Right, so it's a terrible deal. It's a takeover and so Phil Knight's basically just like, I don't want to piss them off by declining. So I'll just say nothing. - Right, he knows at this point that he's done with Onitsuka. They're gonna go with Nisha and they're gonna set up their own factory relationships and make their own shoes. But he can't just shut off Tiger. It's gonna take time to spin this stuff up. He needs the Tiger shoes in the interim. So he stalls. - And by the way, this relationship so far has been unbelievably fruitful. They're at the point now where because of Blue Ribbon, 70% of runners in the US. Mind you, runners is not a large category yet, but runners in the US have Onitsuka shoes. - Yeah. - So this is pretty important. - Yeah. - So there's a whole bunch of stuff. Phil hires a spy. There's a thing where the Onitsuka management team comes over to visit Blue Ribbon headquarters. Phil steals some documents out of the guy's briefcase. - Literally the guy goes up to go to the bathroom or something and Phil grabs it out of a folder and photocopies it. - Yeah, it's pretty bad. Even worse, Phil is a combination as we keep saying of Ginghis Khan and like extremely introverted and really naive. He writes a memo to the whole company saying that he's hired a spy at Onitsuka. This is not the kind of stuff that you want coming up in legal discovery later. A whole bunch of this stuff happens. They end up in this literal Mexican standoff here where like there's no way out without firing shots and somebody has to fire a shot first and it's Phil. Phil shoots first. He's like, "Hon, he shoots first." And I say, "Mexican standoff too." 'Cause A, that is the situation there. And B, the first shot gets fired in Mexico. So while Phil is waiting on spinning up the Japanese factory relationships with Nisho Yui, he remembers from back in the Mexico City Olympics in 1968, I think that there was a factory, I believe in Guadalajara, that Adidas had used to make soccer cleats for the Olympics. And he says, "You know, those soccer cleats "that Adidas made were pretty good." Let me go down to that factory and see if I can get some of those cleats. And we'll sell them here in America as Blue Ribbon, American football cleats. Now technically, he thinks this won't violate his exclusivity agreement with Onitsuka because Onitsuka doesn't make football cleats. Now that's debatable. Yeah, there's a paragraph in the written agreement that gives Phil Knight three years or whatever it is of exclusive distribution. In exchange, he is forbidden from importing other brands of track and field shoes. And so theoretically, he thinks as long as we're not track shoes is fine. So he goes down to the factory in Mexico. He's like, "Can I get the shoes?" And he'll be like, "Yeah, sure. What do you want to put on them?" When we made them for Adidas, we had the three stripes on them, the Adidas stripes. What design do you want on your version of these shoes? And oh, yeah, by the way, what do you want to call them? And Phil's like, "Um, let me get back to you." About to this. So he goes home to Portland and calls up who else? Carolyn Davidson. Yeah, the part-time art department at Blue Ribbon Sports for $2 an hour. And he asks her to design something like Adidas's stripes that can go on the sides of these soccer/football cleats. And huge thank you here to Scott Reams for helping us sort out exactly what the timeline is and what the details are. 'Cause it's not well understood how this all went down. And you can actually hear quotes from Phil Knight in interviews at a little bit in shoe dog where it disputes other records of how this all went down. And people care a lot about this because obviously what we're getting here is the origin of the swoosh and of Nike. And so how does this end up happening? The most interesting thing is from Scott, he put this on LinkedIn. He talked to Carolyn herself about this. Her recollection is that originally in the request to create what became the swoosh, they wanted structural support as an element in the design. And she came back with some designs. They didn't like any of them. And so in the second revision, they dropped the requirement that it be supportive in any way and that it's just about having the brand sewn onto the outside. - Also super importantly, this is not the name that we're talking about here. So point one, we are just talking about a logo to go on the shoes. So all the thought of like, oh, the swoosh is like the wing of the goddess of victory. No, not the case. This is before the name. - Right, so it's literally not inspired by the Greek goddess of victory. Like I was just in France. I just stood in front of the winged victory statue. It's this beautiful, incredible thing in Paris. There's this myth running around forever and ever that the swoosh is inspired by one of those wings. The name Nike came after the design of the swoosh, which by the way also was not called a swoosh yet. - Okay, so as you say, she goes through two round sketches. When the second round comes back, they're out of time. The factory is calling and they're like, hey, shoes are just about ready. We just got to put the sides on them. What do you want? So finally, Phil and Jeff Johnson and Bob Woodell, they're sitting around in a couple of other folks and they're like, well, we got to pick one. And they're like, well, maybe, I don't know, this one that kind of looks like a check mark. It maybe is the best of the bunch and Phil very famously says the line, I don't love it, but maybe it'll grow on me. (laughing) And that becomes the swoosh. Now ultimately, they do give Carolyn stock in the company before the IPO. So she makes more than $2 an hour, but for this project, she was paid $35. - Which also, she said she spent way more than 17 1/2 hours, but it was just kind of coming up with some price to charge. Fun thing about, I did the math on the IPO shares. When Nike would public, they did give her 500 shares. The stock price today is around 110 and it has split seven times. So two to the seventh times $110 a share times her 500 shares is worth $7 million today. - Nice. And I heard Phil say somewhere, I think it might have been in the GSB graduation speech. I believe he said that she held the shares. - Yes, as late as 2016, 2017, he is on the record saying she has never sold the share. - Yeah, wow, incredible. - Pretty cool. - So they send the logo off. So a short while later, factory in Mexico calls them up and it's like, all right, shoes are done. We're ready to box them and ship them. What should the model name of these shoes be? Like the Cortez or the Azteca gold or whatever they had called them. What's the model name of the shoes? And so back at Nike headquarters, they're all sitting around brainstorming. And this is where all the famous ideas that get thrown out, Phil Knight loves dimension six, the other people are throwing out the bangle, the falcon, you know, all the naming ideas. The ideas they wanna name the model of the shoes. Like these cleats, what are the cleats called? They're not coming up with a name for the company. - And it's the idea it's gonna be the blue ribbon dimension sixes. - Yes, so legend has it. And as best as we can tell, this is actually true. In typical Phil Knight style, he can't make a decision. They're waiting towards the end. It's the same story has happened with the logo all over again. They're batting it around and then the night before they need to finally drop dead, give the name of the shoes to the factory. Jeff Johnson comes in and is like, I had a dream last night. (laughing) - Johnson. - And in the dream, the name came to me, Nike. And everybody's like, what are you talking about? - What are you talking about? And he's like, the winged Greek goddess of victory. These are gonna be the Nike football cleats. And everybody's like, all right, well, we like that better than the other stuff, ship it. But it wasn't that big a deal. - Like it was a big deal, but it wasn't that big a deal. This wasn't intended to be Nike. This was intended to be the name of the model of the football cleat. - That they weren't even sure it was gonna work. - Right, and it didn't work. Turns out this factory not very high quality. - Well, no, I don't think that was the problem. I think the factory was fine. I mean, they made shoes for Adidas for the Olympics. The problem was it was in Guadalajara. It doesn't get very cold in Guadalajara. So the shoes were great, but in freezing temperatures, they would crack. They'd never been tested in the cold. And, you know, as Americans at least know, many American football games are played in cold temperatures. So they ordered 3,000 pairs. They sold them apparently the Notre Dame football team, wore them that year, at least the quarterback did, then they would crack and cold weather. So it's a very inauspicious start to Nike and the swish here. - Yeah, it's kind of amazing that they even continued after that, or that they didn't just give up and say, "Okay, shoe distribution sounds a lot better than making shoes." - Yes, but again, whether it violated the letter of the agreement with Onitsuka or not, ultimately the courts would decide it didn't, but it's game over here, like, the relationship is done, they have burned the bridge. It's over. - Yeah, and this to me. He is a little bit of a thing in Nike's DNA where they are competitive all the way up to the line and then one toe over. Yeah. What's the Uber corporate value toe stepping from the Travis era? It's very much that. We are fiercely competitive and at this point in time it was to stay alive so I get it. But for their whole existence it's like, is there anything we can do that other people aren't doing because they kind of think you can't but maybe we'll do it anyway and deal with the repercussions? That kind of happens with Nike over and over and over again. And for most of these situations, this one very much included. Yeah, like this ends up in lawsuits and yeah, it's probably a toe over the line. On the other hand, it's also a little bit like Uber in the early days with toe stepping. Like, the alternative was the taxi industry. It's good for the world that they stepped a toe over the line. Like they didn't do this. There's no Nike. Yep. So with that, Onitsika pulls out of the relationship, they don't send any more Tigers to Blue Ribbon. Phil signs a deal, finally, with Nishou Y. And the core part of the deal is Nishou will finance all of Blue Ribbon's financing needs henceforth, pretty much at a scale that goes all the way up to the moon. I mean, they're a hundred billion dollar revenue company, certainly way more than any of the Oregon banks could do. And they'll do that at market interest rates to Nishou will help Blue Ribbon set up direct manufacturing relationships in Japan, which they do. And then three in exchange for all that, Nishou gets a 4% royalty on every shoe that Blue Ribbon sells, which ultimately ends up being a great relationship. And that's on top of the financing. They already owe interest on borrowing the money, but now they additionally owe a 4% royalty. Yes. This is sort of like the trading company playbook. And is that just for the inventory they finance or all sales? I believe it's for all sales. Whoa. Does that still exist? I don't know. I doubt if it does in the same way. I know that the relationship with Nishou Y continued for like 30, 40 years, like a very long time. If it still does exist today, I'm sure it is not the same terms. But this goes on for a very long period of time. Wow. I mean, at this point in history to have the house in order with a strong financing partner, there's crazy stuff we didn't even cover. Like he got kicked out of multiple banks. The FBI got involved. They were playing it a little bit too fast and loose where they were using every available penny to buy inventory. And so there would be checks that bounced for payroll and things like that. When these things topple, they topple all at once. And so they had like a day where they got called into the bank and then the bank called the FBI and then they got investigated for fraud. It was an insane few years there. Yeah. Shudug has a lot of great like Phil Knight's personal experience going through this, which is, I mean, it's worth the read no matter what, but read it for that. But safe to say this moment here in what is it, 1971, 72, they can kind of take a deep breath and say, well, the business ahead is still really hard because now only Tsukas going to be working against us. We have to figure out how to design and make shoes ourselves. But at least we have a real financing partner that has struck a deal to work with us. Yep. So once this is all in place, Phil goes over to Japan and works with Nisho, goes visits lots of factories. He's up meeting the Nippon rubber factory. He's touring with lots of folks and his sort of test of these factories of whether they can be a partner is he pulls out a Cortez and he asks the factory how long it would take them to make a version of the shoe. So he meets with Nippon rubber in the morning, they say, hmm, let's go out to lunch. Let us borrow the shoe, inspect it a little bit. We'll come back after lunch and we'll have an answer for you. They come back after lunch and there is an almost perfect duplicate of the Cortez sitting there on the conference room table and Phil's like, hell yeah, this is what I'm talking about. What an amazing way to do business because he had met with all these other factories. They're like, yeah, we'll get back to you in a few weeks and like over lunch, they built one. Amazing. So he is jazzed. He orders all sorts of models. He's like, can you do all the running shoes that we slash tiger? We're doing before at least the ones that we and Bowerman designed. They're like, yep, no problem. He's like, can you do tennis shoes, basketball shoes, cleats? He's like, yep, yep, whatever you want. So in a kind of very unfilled night like peak of confidence here, he says, great. Well, I'll just start right now, model name. So he writes out the Wimbleton tennis shoe, the Forest Hill tennis shoe, the Blazer basketball shoe, the Bruin basketball shoe, the marathon. Of course, the Cortez is like, great. Let's do all of them. And these are Nike franchises that stood the test of time. Many of these shoes are still made. The Blazer for sure. Yep. Of course, the Cortez and they're like, okay, great. And then it feels like one more thing, the boxes. Can you make them bright orange? I want them to stand out. And deep on rubber is like, you got a man, whatever you want. It's awesome. So great. And to this day, they're orange. And by the end of this trip, Phil and Blue Ribbon Sports has a whole new line of athletic shoe models coming out of Japan with a much better relationship, solid financing, and a brand new brand to show it all off. The wing had got us in victory. Nike. Yep. And there's kind of this funny thing where it is still Blue Ribbon Sports. So in 1971, they do create Nike Inc. It is a wholly owned subsidiary of Blue Ribbon Sports. And it is responsible for manufacturing, well, or contracting with manufacturers to make this line of shoes, this Nike designed line of shoes owned by Blue Ribbon Sports. Of course, later on, these would flip and Nike would become the parent company. But for now, it's a subsidiary of Blue Ribbon. Amazing. So Phil gets how many tells power men about this. And this is where yet another sporadic but incredible Bowerman stroke of genius comes to play for Blue Ribbon/Nikey Bowerman's Jazz. He's like, great. I never liked the owner too, guys. That much anyway. Hey, but he doesn't really care about that. What he cares about is he's like, wait, so there are factories now? We can tell them exactly what to do. You mean, I'm the new chief R&D officer of Blue Ribbon Sports. Let's get to work. So that weekend, supposedly it was the weekend, right after Knight told Bowerman about what was happening. He goes home and over breakfast on Sunday, Bill is sitting there. His wife, Barbara, is making waffles for breakfast. And honest to God, I think, you know, I've had a corner, a corner, everybody. This really happened. Bill is struck with inspiration and he's like, hey, honey, can I borrow that waffle iron? That waffle iron was not coming back. He goes out in the back in his mountain home and he had a vat of polyurethane sitting there and he had it because the University of Oregon had just redone their track and made it into a polyurethane track instead of a cinder track. And Bowerman at the time was like, well, this is great. This is the future. The Olympics are going to do this and whatnot. But the shoes that I have, that I have my runners in, they're not gripping the track that well. And so he sees the waffle iron. He's like, what if I pour polyurethane into the waffle iron? Which has two problems. Yes, the shape is, yeah, you can imagine how that could grip a track well. There's two problems. One, hot polyurethane, super toxic. The man for many years of his life, because he's been experimenting forever, is like breathing in all these hot, terrible chemicals. He's literally a mad scientist. Yes. And two, pouring hot polyurethane into a waffle iron is going to permanently glue the iron shut. Yes. Which is exactly what happens. So apparently the first actual waffle trainer shoe was inspired by this design, but like he literally couldn't make one in a traditional waffle iron. Now, according to Scott in a really like, you cannot make this stuff up. He thought that that original waffle iron was lost history and like, was this even true or apocryphal anyway. Years and years later, after Bill had died, his, I think it was his kids are going through the estate. No. And outback as Memphis is up in the mountains, like they didn't have real trash surface. So they threw the trash in like a garbage pile in the back, and they're doing some renovations of the house or something. Somehow they discover out in the trash heap, the glued shut waffle iron, and it is in Nike's possession to this day. That is awesome. Isn't that awesome? So where of course this is leading is the waffle trainer, which is another one of Bowerman's genius inventions and becomes the first big hit shoe for the new Nike brand. He would eventually after gluing the first waffle iron shut, then creating a mold out of plaster in the waffle iron, pour polyurethane into that, and then make the waffle soles for the shoes. It's a great way to work incredibly well on artificial surfaces, not just tracks, but also astro-dry. turf, which is becoming a thing at this point in time. So the University of Oregon football team wears them that year on their new Astroturf field. It's like a huge thing. They beat Oregon state wearing their waffle trainers. This is incredible publicity for Nike. And I think the waffle trainer is starting to be worn outside of track situations. Like this is the first hint of a lifestyle sneaker. Yes. I forget what the first colorway that they do it is. Look at you sneaker head over there colorway. Yeah, colorway. Eventually, I think it's Phil who's like, Oh, we should do this in a blue. They'll go well with blue jeans. Ah, yeah. The canonical old school waffle trainer is blue with a yellow swoosh. And I think a lot of those were sold to be lifestyle shoes going with blue jeans. Which turns into Nike's real business eventually. But that the success on the field on Astroturf fields, the success in track that year. So this is 1972. Blue ribbons first full year doing sales as Nike purely on their own. They do $3.2 million in revenue. Remember, just a couple of years before their last kind of full year with Tiger, they're doing half a million dollars in revenue. So to go from all the crazy drama, ending the Tiger relationship, starting up their own factory production, making the waffle trainer to be at $3.2 million, fully financed by Nicheau, what a great spot to be in. Nike is designing their own shoes and going direct to the manufacturer. I think the benefit to the business at this point is not margin expansion. It's purely aliveness and can we convince people to buy things from us that aren't only to get tigers. Because to this point, it's still unproven if it's, hey, Blue Ribbon has great distribution and people will buy anything from these guys because we trust the company. Or if it's people really wanted to go to Tiger because they were really good shoes for runners. And I don't really want whatever this new thing you're selling is. Yes. And it turned out that it was the former people were willing, definitely willing to buy Blue Ribbon shoes and to buy Bill Bowerman shoes, regardless of Tiger and Onitsuka, which is kind of amazing. That is completely opposite to what my intuition would have suggested. I would have definitely believed there's these shoes that are popular among other competitors. So I should be wearing them to be as competitive as them. If I run them myself, I learn to like them. It's very strange that it ends up being the relationship that matters. Like thinking, oh, I trust whatever this running shoe distribution company is now making because they say it's good. I'm sure it's good. Well, this is how important Bowerman was. He started jogging. Not only was he Bill Bowerman, you know, legendary track coach. He also started jogging. So the convergence of things, all the butterfly wing flapping that had to happen for Nike to become Nike. Right at this time, right is Nike is being born and Blue Ribbon is going out on their own. Bowerman gets a generational runner at Oregon, Steve Prefontaine, tragedy, like weirdly so many people we've covered recently on acquired dies in a car crash way too young, you know, James Dean style, which ironically, of course, just cement his legacy. But Pre was the American runner. He was on the cover of Sports Illustrated while he was a runner at Oregon for Bowerman. He simultaneously held every American record for every distance between 2000 and 10,000 meters. It's crazy. He died holding every single one of those records. Yes, incredible. And he did this at Oregon and then later as a professional, but still for Bowerman and his Olympic teams in Nike's right as Nike was starting. You can't script this any better. And in fact, he was not allowed to take a paid endorsement due to AAU rules. Yes, this is another toe stepping that's going to happen here. Just like snatching the document out of the briefcase, whatever it takes to win, Phil Knight figures out a way to A, make sure that he's running in Nike's and B, make sure that he doesn't need to worry about money by finding a clever way to not do a paid endorsement, but something else. And this is one of those things that the AAU and the amateur rules and all that like Nike was a thousand percent on the side of right here. And Nike was on the side of the athlete, which is a thing that they've always been and is a huge part of their strategy. Yes. So what was happening was amateur athletic rules and the Olympic organizing committees rules were that you had to be an amateur. You couldn't be a professional athlete. You couldn't take endorsements or take money to race. Pre was this poor kid from Oregon. So after he graduated and wasn't at the university anymore, he literally had to bartend to make money while he's simultaneously holding the American records in every major distance event. This is criminal. So what Phil does is he decides to employ pre as a corporate employee of Nike as the national director of public affairs for $5,000 a year with no responsibility. Yes. And there's this amazing quote and shoe dog Phil says people asked me what that meant. I said it means he can run fast. So great. So great. This is the perfect encapsulation. I'm going to foreshadow just a little bit here of the later number three in the later. Nike document of the 10 principles of Nike that we will talk about in a bit number three is so great perfect results count not a perfect process break the rules fight the law. That's exactly what Phil and Nike are doing here. Yep. You bet. So that's on the sort of proto marketing front that this early Nike playbook is getting going. You know, $5,000 for the best publicity you could possibly ever get. It's filled like basically inventing sports marketing. I mean, there was a sort of nascent idea of athlete sponsorship at the time, but it really this is the invention of it as we know it today. And all athletic brands are defined by athletes. And this is really the first instance. Yes. That's part one of just the brilliant kind of restart up of the Nike startup playbook that Phil puts together here. Part two, equally brilliant and innovative. He comes up with an idea for what he calls the futures program. So the way retailing worked back then and Nike had their own stores always, but they also sold through retailers. Of course, the retailers would place orders with Nike to buy the shoes and then they would resell them at retail. And then they would pay after they got the inventory. This is how retail works. This is like the law of the land, not the official law, but the way it all works. Yep. Phil comes up with the idea because remember, he's got the niche of UI partnership, but financing is still like he's scarred by this. So he goes to the retailers and says, if you commit and pay for your orders six months in advance, Blue Ribbon will give you a 7% discount. And we're going to call this the Nike futures program. So he's essentially moving his financing from banks and niche UI over to his retail partners to his customers. And the retailers, of course, tell them to take a hike at first, but then the waffle trainer comes out and they can't make enough of them and retailers can't get enough of them. And the only way that they can get the waffle trainer, sweet, sweet inventory, there's delicious waffles that they want is to sign up for the futures program. And this really starts Nike down a path of their distribution strategy being a wholesaler. They sell to retail chains. And for decades starting here in the early 70s, they are predominantly someone who reaches their customers through an intermediary through retail. Yes. So that's the second piece. The third piece then is sort of obvious and is happened all along. But now as Nike is making their own shoes is outsourcing and global outsourcing of manufacturing. So again, Nike isn't making the shoes in their own factories. Now they did actually buy a factory in New Hampshire along the way, which is a little bit of a detour. Phil sent Jeff Johnson out to like buy it and run it. That was more of a stopgap measure while they were transitioning from Tiger kind of a hedge to it was a hedge. Yes. And it was a secret hedge. Again, break the rules, fight the law. They use nichos money, which was supposed to be to buy inventory instead to plow it into capex of buying and rehabbing a factory. And then they were secretly operating their own factory with money that was not supposed to be used for that purpose. But again, Nike break the rules, fight the law. And here they are today, a huge and successful company. I like that break the rules, fight the law sounds much more inspiring than toe stepping. So global outsourcing though. At first, this of course is in Japan with Neapon rubber. But as we are saying, Japan is coming up in the global economy. And right around this time, Nixon cuts the dollar peg to the yen loose and the yen starts floating against the dollar. So up until this point from after World War II until the mid 70s, the yen was pegged the dollar. Once the currency floats and the Japanese economy, of course, has come up hugely over these decades, now currency issues become a big problem for Nike in terms of importing from Japan and the cost of labor is going up. So basically, the ratings on the wall, there's no way that they're getting shoes for $3 a pair anymore anytime soon. This means that they got to go find other countries to make the shoes. Yep. So Phil and a bunch of the management team starts flying around Asia. They go to Taiwan. They go to South Korea. Ultimately, they go to China. They go to Indonesia. They go to Vietnam. And this is where the Nike global production machine is born. And at first, it's primarily Taiwan and then South Korea that they go to then the big move is into China, both in terms of production and for selling. I think there's a scene in Shudog even when he's on the trip around the world in 1963 that he like peers into China from Hong Kong and is dreaming about two billion feet in China. Nike would be one of the very first companies. And I think the first footwear company that would be allowed to sell in China to sell and open factories. They sort of opened the country for the industry. So this we would certainly be remiss in doing a Nike episode if we didn't talk about the downside of this. The upside, of course, is cheap shoes. And the upside, I think you can make a strong argument in the case with many of those countries that this is part of the coming up process in the global economy. If you look at what happened to the Japanese economy, to the South Korean economy, to the Taiwanese economy, they went from making shoes to making chips to making technology to being global economic powers. It's part of the process. At the same time, people are making like 70 cents a day working in these factories. Totally. Well, let's flash forward to the 90s here where this really hits a flash point. And then I think we'll come back to the story. While we're here, we may as well be here. So stories hit the news of some really horrible things like child labor, stitching soccer balls on dirt floors and high temperatures, toxic glues, carcinogens, etc. Nike fans looked at this as, the company really has a black mark on their otherwise great reputation. But it kind of was the natural endpoint of an idea that had been in the company's DNA the whole time. I mean, literally Phil Knight's Stanford paper is about arbitraging cheap labor from imported goods and selling into markets willing to pay higher prices. They should have realized this is where it could have gone if left unchecked. So to add insult to injury, Nike wildly mishandled this. They tried to act like it wasn't their problem. They literally said to the press, Oh, we don't make shoes. Mark Parker later walked this back with a stance where he said ignorance is not bliss. You have to understand the systemic issues and work with factory partners to solve them. They did do a huge amount of work to clean up their act. They created new standards for factory partners. They publish supplier lists. They have third party audits of factories. They do huge investments in R&D and invented things like new types of glue that weren't toxic, which they then went on to share with their competitors. But David, I don't know. There is still this interesting and more theoretical question. What is the line of acceptability and who should determine it? Obviously, when a company trips a clear bright line like child labor, there is appropriately public outcry. But what about when the lines are blurrier? Are 75 degree factories okay or are $3 wages fine? If the local average is $2 an hour, at the end of the day, there's a discomfort of sitting with the idea that in order to manufacture a product that you are buying from shoes to smartphones, somebody has to work in conditions you wouldn't endure, even if it's better than all of their other options. And companies need to grapple with a spectrum that they sit on. On one end, there's making the absolute maximum margin. And on the other end, there's creating labor conditions that customers would totally be fine with if they learned every single little detail. And in the 90s, Nike chose to sit too far on maximizing the margin side of things and they intentionally turned a blind eye to what was going on in the factories and they were in the wrong because it led to exploiting people. One of the things that Nike folks were really surprised by at the time when the controversy came up is they were like all the other shoe companies do it this way, all the clothing companies do it this way. Why are we being picked on? Yeah, but Nike started it and they're the biggest. But I think it's even more than that. People had come to love Nike so much and the brand represented so much that it was like a huge betrayal. It was a disappointment. It was like, oh, I thought you were better than that. You are about inspiring greatness and this is not greatness. And I think that's really interesting that like, yeah, this was part of Nike from the beginning. But because of everything else that made Nike successful, it's super ironic that they didn't hold themselves to the high standard that the whole company was all about. And then their customers were like, yo, this doesn't compute. Yeah, they sort of discovered they couldn't have their cake and eat it too of saying we are the brand that inspires you. Oh, but by the way, anytime there's an issue, oh, that's one of our suppliers problems, we simply don't make shoes. Even though it is technically correct, the court of a public opinion, you will find you guilty. So okay, back to the bin 1970s. In 1974, these pieces of the Nike startup playbook, the inventing sports market and basically sponsoring quote-unquote pre for $5,000, the outsourcing you're financing to your retail partners. And then the global outsourcing of manufacturing, all of this combines in 1974 for just an explosive year. I can't remember exactly the phrase, but in Shudug, Phil says something like, the limiters were off, the governors were off. We could run. They do $8 million in revenue in 1974, which is up almost hundred percent. They nearly doubled again in 1973 to 1974. 1974 is also a momentous year for Blue Ribbon because they finally settle the legal battles with Onitsuka and they win in court. Amazingly. Ultimately, they settle for Onitsuka paying Blue Ribbon $400,000, which by this point in time is a bit to Blue Ribbon. But the actual butterfly flaps its wings, hugely important outcome of this for the Nike journey is that the court case with Onitsuka leads to one Rob Straser. Yes. Coming into Phil Knight and the Nike orbit. He was their lawyer on this case, right? Yes. Straser was the junior attorney at the Portland law firm that was working on the Nike case. And Straser is just a force. I mean, this guy was not cut out to be a corporate lawyer. He actually comes in after the case is settled to Blue Ribbon as in-house counsel, but then Phil quickly realizes like, oh, this guy is way more valuable to me than as my lawyer. You know, everybody else in Nike at the time, they're all former runners. Most of them ran for Bowerman. Straser is, I think, about six foot two and weighs over 300 pounds. And he has an equally outsized personality as his actual size. He gets the nickname within Nike of rolling thunder, and boy does he roll like thunder. And while he and Phil, of course, did ultimately clash, and there was the terrible betrayal that happened for a while. They were thickest thieves. Yes. So the first thing that Phil puts Rob in charge of is taking this really early sports marketing concept of doing sponsorship deals with athletes and blowing it out. So they had already before Rob joined done the first official sponsorship of an athlete with Ily Nostasi, the tennis player. They paid him $10,000 to wear Nike tennis shoes. Oh boy. How quaint. When Straser comes in, he starts doing sponsorships in a systematic manner. So he goes out and negotiates with athletes and agents. He signs up like half the NBA for peanuts. Now, not the big stars, but the journey in the role players in the NBA. He just obliterates them in their agents in negotiations. I mean, they're getting like, I don't even know the dollar amounts, but not a lot. They're getting free shoes. Basically. And then Nike is showing up on nationally televised broadcast every single night. Yep. This leads then to a bigger initiative that Straser puts together. And if you've watched the recent movie air of air Jordan, this totally gets played as like a Sunny Vicaro thing. Straser hires Sunny Vicaro to come in and build the college basketball program for Nike. And this is another just equally brilliant move. So Straser gets Sunny to go around the country and sign up coaches of the big basketball schools to become Nike coaches. Now, there's nothing preventing the coaches at schools from being consultants, advisors running Nike clinics. No, you can pay him whatever you want. You can pay him whatever you want, right? And they can tell their teams to do whatever they want. There's no contract between the team and the coach about wearing shoes. But if the coach says, hey, I really like this shoe company. You should wear the shoes on court. What do you think the players are going to do? It's actually a team policy. Let's see. Yeah, exactly. So within a month of working on this, Strasser and Vicaro have got UNLV, Georgetown, Texas, Arkansas. They get legendary coach Jimmy V. at Iona to sign up to be committed to being Nike coaches and their teams wearing Nike. This is hilarious. So all this is happening. The Washington Post gets word of this. They run a real Pearl Clutchy article saying that this is shameful. Nike is commercializing the purity of college athletics like, oh my God, give me a brick. These kids are being exploited, like at least they're getting free shoes here now. In the article, the post mistakenly says that Iowa is one of the colleges that Nike has signed up not Iona. So Lut Olsen, the coach at Iowa, who's legendary, he goes on and coaches at Arizona. Lots of listeners probably know who Lut Olsen is. He's in the Hall of Fame now instead of being pissed off that he was included in this shameful article with the post. He calls up Nike and he's like, yo, can I get on on this? So then they sign up, Lut it, Iowa, and then Arizona and he becomes a big Nike coach. It's incredible. Strasser then takes the same playbook to college football. Signs all the big coaches in schools, all the big powerhouses for peanuts. This is incredible. Selling football cleats is never a big business for Nike, but college football is huge. I mean, still huge. A lot of eyeballs on those swooshes. And this is so clarifying of what their sports marketing strategy is. These endorsement deals are not about the sneakers that that basketball player is going to sell or, oh, I want to buy the cleats that my favorite college football team is wearing on the field. No one else plays football other than college football students and the very few NFL players that exist. So there's really nothing to buy, but what you do see are these swooshes and it's cementing that brand in your head of this is what real athletes wear. So one thing that's worth mentioning, this is sort of obvious, but didn't click for me until really getting pretty deep in the research here for Nike. There are actually only three sports that matter. So Nike, Adidas, Reebok, they sponsor lots of sports, but running basketball and tennis are the only sports that matter because those are the only shoes that normal people can wear. Normal people don't wear baseball cleats or football cleats or soccer cleats no matter how popular those sports are. Yep. Even to this day, all the marketing, all the athletes, everything you see on TV of Nike and the other athletics companies, it's not about getting you to buy the shoes that that that athlete is wearing. It's about getting you to buy Nike. Right. The funnel is every single one of those is a brand impression. So consider them all billboards and then they just need to manufacture enough products to meet needs in your life that you can go and participate in the brand story by buying things that you need in your life and you're inspired to do that because what you saw on those moving billboards and all the players running around. But the products that the players are wearing are made for them in their athletic journey and the products that you're buying at the store are things that are made for you in your athletic and increasingly lifestyle journey, but you're inspired by what you see on the billboards. You're buying victory. Right. So their whole business eventually becomes figuring out this multi-sided equation of can we create enough demand, like it literally on their income statement says demand creation by doing these sponsorships and then can we create the right product mix for people to participate in our brand by giving us their dollars. Yes. Now, I don't want to say that stress or alone architected this grand strategy or even I'm not really sure that filler anybody at Nike understood this at this time, but certainly stressor executes this in just an incredible way. Nobody else was doing this. The college coaches, they ran the table and it was just an incredible run in the late 70s. All the while, the jogging movement is just getting bigger and bigger and bigger. Right. Keep in mind, they still only make running shoes. There's no apparel. There's no shoes for other sports really. There's like some things on the margins, but 90 plus percent of their revenue is running shoes. Yeah. The core sales, what they are marketing is go buy a waffle trainer and wear them with your bleachings. Yep. So through the late 70s, revenue just doubles year over year over year. They go from 14 million in sales to 29 million in sales to 71 million in sales, finishing out in 1979 with 150 million in sales. Yes. In 1976, when they officially changed the actual name of the company to Nike, then 1977 was a huge year, as you said, to do 70 million in revenue that year. They signed John McEnroe. They crossed a thousand employees, so it's getting to be a real beefy organization. Two other things. They bring one former NASA engineer and true mad scientist, Frank Rudy, into the fold, the inventor of air soul technology, which Phil Knight is not a fan of. We hear about the idea. Well, he thinks it's a crazy idea. First, Phil's meeting with Rudy. He's like, I don't even know how Rudy got into my office. Who is this crazy dude? He's about to kick him out and then Rudy's like, yeah, a deedist didn't want it either. And Phil's like, oh, you said the A word. All right. Let me try it. So supposedly Phil goes for a run in the prototypes of the air souls. And he's like, yeah, actually, these are pretty great. And we should say, for anybody who doesn't know everything that you hear of now, the air max, the air Jordan, the Air Force one, it is a literal air bag. Actually, it's a nitrogen bag that sits in the midsole. So think about the thing between the lower soul, the rubber on the bottom, and inside of the insole, basically the part of the shoe that you can't get to that's underneath your heel. And sometimes that runs all the way across, all the way up to the toe, that replaces foam cushioning instead using a little air bag that magically doesn't pop. Yeah. I mean, Rudy really was a genius. So Phil's like, all right, let's do it. He tasks who else, Rob Straser, with going and doing a deal with Rudy. They do a deal. Rudy gets between 10 to 20 cent royalty for each pair of air soul technology shoes that Nike sells. Eventually, Nike would just buy Rudy's company and Rudy would become an employee of Nike. So still here in 1977, Straser is just on fire. I don't know the full context around this. Scott Reims has a great LinkedIn post, but as best as we can tell, Ben, as you said, the company was growing hugely. There are all these new employees there who are just kind of taken for granted that Nike is winning. Straser gets kind of pissed off one day, and he goes to his typewriter, and he fires off a memo. He zeroxes, he copies this memo and paces it up on the walls all around the office of Nike. 10 principles. And this document is just amazing. We've tweeted it before it's going around the internet. Yeah. It's going around the internet, but it's going around the internet described in the following way. Here is the document that Phil Knight wrote articulating Nike's principles. What are the things that are wrong with that statement? One, Phil Knight did not write it, Rob Straser did. Two, Nike's principles, also incorrect. When this was written, it was actually still blue ribbon sports, so that it was not yet the Nike Corporation. Three, the top of the document has this thin, wispy swoosh. That was never the Nike swoosh. This is someone's attempt to doctor this at some point to make it look like some old version of the swoosh. There is an old version of the swoosh, which we will link to in our sources. It is still in the US PTO for the swoosh trademark. It is a hand drawn version, Carolyn's hand drawn version of the swoosh that looks nothing like this weird thin, wispy thing that was like doctored and added to the document. So not Nike ink, not the swoosh, there was never a swoosh on the document. It was done on a typewriter. How are you going to do that? And three, not Phil Knight. But yes, oh my god, these principles are amazing and we're going to go through them. Now is a great time to talk about a new partner of ours here on Acquired, LaGoura, the agentic operating system that is redefining how the world's best legal teams work. Yup, it's sort of obvious that AI is going to completely change the legal industry. I bet most of you listening have dropped a contract into some sort of AI chatbot out there. That insight and ask the question, what if you really built something with that power from the ground up for the legal industry? So the founders did exactly what great founders do operate with obsessive customer focus. They embedded inside a massive law firm for months. They sat with the lawyers just watching how the work really gets done. And that's how you get features that customers love, like tabular review where you drop in a folder of hundreds of contracts and it pulls every key term into a grid a lawyer can actually work with. LaGoura's bet here is interesting. Since it lets each lawyer handle more complexity, any given person can increase the quality of their work and do higher value work. And this means that the pie can grow even as each individual task takes less time. time. And they recently launched LaGora agent offering greater intelligence and performance. The agent lets lawyers set an objective. Then it can handle the planning and the execution and delivery of the final product. Legal teams get to maintain full control and transparency since they're still involved where judgment is required. And LaGora works where you already work. You can use it within Microsoft Word while redlining or drafting. The early LaGora numbers essentially speak for themselves. When they have a head-to-head pilot with their top competitor, they win 70% of the time. LaGora now has over 100,000 lawyers on the platform from 1200 legal teams in 50 countries. And crazily, they went from one million to a hundred million in ARR in about 18 months. Truly insane numbers. And that is the real test. Plenty of things demo well, but the question is whether a busy associate actually reaches for it during crunch time or whether a partner trusts it before going into a conversation with a major client. If your legal team wants to check it out, whether you're a law firm or your in-house at a company, you can learn more at LaGora.com/acquired and just tell them that Ben and David sent you. Okay, David. What are these principles? All right. Nike principles, according to Rob Strasser in 1977. One, our business is change. Two, this is so good. We are on offense all the time. Three, we already alluded to, perfect results count, not a perfect process, break the rules, fight the law. Number four, this is as much about battle as about business. Five, assume nothing, make sure people keep their promises, push yourselves, push others, stretch the possible. Number six, live off the land. Number seven, your job isn't done until the job is done. Eight dangers with a underlying as a heading bureaucracy, personal ambition, energy takers versus energy givers. Knowing our weaknesses, don't get too many things on the platter. Number nine, it won't be pretty. And then number ten, if we do the right things, we'll make money damn near automatic. It's so good. It's so good. That last one is so spot on for any business through to this day. It's so easy to get wrapped up on all the other crap. You do the right things, you make product, the customers love, you market it right, you build a brand, you will make money damn near automatic. So I read these differently than I used to read them because when I didn't know Nike's journey, I sort of would just read them and be like, yeah, that's awesome. We're like, wow, that's so pithy. I can't believe their official corporate values are in such a pithy way. No, this is stream of consciousness, all from Rob's dresser, all into the typewriter. And like some of them are things that Nike would never say today because it shows the tradeoffs inherent in their business. I mean, live off the land, it's cringe worthy, right? It's almost like, you guys, you had this huge labor issue. It's not good. So you sort of see where some of this stuff comes from, break the rules, fight the law. I think there's also something very clear, dangerous bureaucracy, personal ambition. Like this is a foreshadow of Rob's dresser hating the bureaucracy at Nike after its IPO that we'll talk about in a second, clashing with Phil Knight. Developing his own personal ambition and developing his own personal ambition, leaving and going to Adidas. So there's like so much in here that when you really start to know the company's history and story and the headspace that he was in when he punched this out, it reads entirely differently to me than I sort of used to just read it as a, hey, I love Nike. A brand, wow, so cool. I wish I could work at a company that had these pithy punchy values. Yeah, this is definitely one of those cases where ignorance is bliss. Yeah. But man, they're awesome. The one that is still in Nike's maxims today that they distribute to employees that is David, something you and I both hold near and dear and think of with acquired is we're on offense all the time. You don't win by playing defense. Nope. Okay. So we're approaching 1980. They're about to go public and they are entirely a running shoe company. Still no sign of the Nike that they are today where they have a peril where they're diversified across the zillion sports. And from their revenue, they're basically a running shoe company that makes shoes for men. That is where their revenue comes from. So Nike IPO's the second week of December in 1980. The same week as Apple. Unbelievable. It's amazing. You get all the way through shoe dog. There is basically no mention of market cap at IPO. Like it really underscores how much nobody believed enterprise value matter than. Yeah. It was about $400 million. The market cap at IPO. Apple for comparison sake was $1.8 billion. Now interestingly, before they went public, Bowerman sold most of his stake back to Phil Knight. Actually, this was related to some of the financing's earlier, but as Nike got bigger, he just didn't want to be a major listed shareholder in a highly visible public company. Certainly, he was in retirement age towards the end of his life. He was like, I'm going to sell my stake back to Phil. So when they went public, after the IPO, Phil owned 46% of the company and was overnight, one of the richest people in America. And the craziest thing is like one of the richest people in America then was $178 million. Yes, quite different. Now, he was far from the top richest person in America, but still this made national headlines. Yeah. So this is where shoe dog ends, which is kind of crazy. I had forgotten this before I went back and reread it. There's no Jordan. There's no huge fall from grace that is about to happen for Nike, basically right after they go public. Phil picked an interesting time to end the story. Very much so, especially because right after they go public, Phil goes on sabbatical for a year. It's sort of like, you know, the job's done, wash my hands of it. Then the job's not done until the job is done. There you go. But like the whole company, there was a lot of hubris going on. They're on top. We own the running shoe market. We've been in this magical, secular, growing trend forever. And it's just surely going to continue, right? And the fitness boom continues, but running is not exactly the thing that keeps carrying. I mean, they 50% market share in running shoes at this point in America. And yet their growth in the future is going to be dictated by where they go from there because it's really hard to have more than, you know, 50% market share in an industry like this. Early Nike did so many things right, but they made one critical mistake. They mistook the running and the jogging boom for the broader fitness boom. The broader fitness boom was a massive secular trend that continues through to this day. The running boom was a cyclical trend that was part of the fat driven fitness cycle. And by the early 80s, as we're heading into everything that the 80s was and that the 70s were not, running and jogging is out. And aerobics are in. And Nike absolutely refused to see that and refused to do aerobics like on principle. Fascinating. I mean, in 1980, Reebok USA is founded. And by 1988, Reebok eclipses Nike in sales. Yes, at well over a billion dollars. And it's not like Nike fell out of favor in running. And it's not like people who were running stopped running. But Nike had ridden the running boom at this insane growth rate of running. And even if running continued, its growth rate was going to massively taper off and they were going to stop growing their market share. So like they really did need to look elsewhere. And I think it was pure hubris that blinded them from finding their next market. So Reebok, funny, originally a British company started as foster and sons. They were the company that made the track shoes for the 1924 British Olympic team that was the basis for the movie chariots of fire. The Reebok, we all know, well, not today, but back then is a completely different animal. It's a marketing driven company started by a guy named Paul Fireman, who was American. And pretty quickly, they developed a business plan to cash in on the aerobics fat. And they made a shoe that in Nike's principle opinion sucked. But it went really great with leg warmers. You know, it was all white. It had soft leather that wrinkled. It looked good. Women loved it. It was everything that Nike was not. And their rise, like you said, Ben was even steeper and faster than Nike's. Ironically, Reebok would end up much later getting acquired by Adidas. And then spun back out the private equity recently. Wow. So financially, they're sitting pretty pretty. They've just raised 22 million in the IPO, which then was a lot of money. They basically wouldn't need any more money after that. They raised one smaller pipe later in their history. But the company was basically built on debt financing and this 22 million in the bank for my PO. And you can see how they got fat and lazy. Their whole life, they were starved for capital. Finally, they had it. Their whole life, they were the underdog. They're not the underdog. They've got half the running market and this dominant brand where they just steamrolled the competition to get into all these sports deals. But right at the same time as the aerobics boom is coming up, Adidas is becoming a very real competitor in the sports marketing deals too. And so Nike is kind of realizing like, we are not nearly as well capitalized as them and they're kind of going to come eat our lunch and all these deals where we just figured out that you can pay people and they'll wear your stuff. So our cheap brand advertising is kind of going away. And meanwhile, in our core like consumer actual reason people buy truckloads of shoes, the fitness market, the swooshing sound you hear is that going to Reebok. Yes. So interestingly, financially, there only are a couple quarters where Nike's revenue declines. I think that's because of the futures program. Kind of saves their skin again. Retailers had to commit six plus months in advance to their orders and yeah, Nike was able to at least maintain revenue through a lot of this. But the actual underlying dynamics of the business are ugly at this point in time. The market, like I said, is swooshing away. So that brings us to 1984. Phil Knight actually wrote in the letter to shareholders that year. 1984, like Georgia, well predicted, was not a good year for Nike. Everything that we talked about is happening. But 1984 was also the seed of something pretty incredible that would make everything that happened before in Nike look like child's play. And that would be a young kid from North Carolina, Michael Jordan who walks in the door. This is such a fun time to do the Nike episode because the movie air just came out, which really is like a fun kind of summer blockbuster movie, also very, very inaccurate in how it portrays everything. Oh, yeah. No, it's a very fun, can't be work of fiction. I mean, it gets the broad point right. Michael Jordan saved Nike absolutely 100%. The characters involved in how it all went down and what the deals were. No, almost all wrong. There's a lot of little dynamics that we can be mad about. Like it was kind of stressors baby to do the deal, not Vicaro's baby to do the deal. You know, Vicaro never flew to North Carolina to negotiate at Michael's house with Michael's mother. Like all of this doesn't actually happen. They weren't going to fire everyone in the basketball division if this didn't work. But again, factual inaccuracies are fine. It's the characters that they messed up that really bothered me. I know I'm doing a review of a movie that maybe not all of you have seen. So spoilers, but like, God, they make Phil Knight just not at all who Phil Knight is. They make him out to be kind of a rub and after watching every interview he's ever given and reading all this stuff about him. And I just don't think that the benefit like character is anything like Phil Knight. Anyway, airs entertaining. Here's the real story. The big important thing from Michael Jordan, the air Jordan won and then everything it became in the Jordan brand is that it didn't just save Nike. It changed the world. That's a super campy thing to say, but it is 100% true. If you walk down any street pretty much anywhere in the world today or you go into any event building venue, whatever and you look at what people are wearing, they are wearing sneakers and they are mostly wearing basketball shoes and running shoes. That was not the case before air Jordans air Jordans and Michael Jordan made sneakers into culture. So Nike takes a chance. There's a kid out of North Carolina. He's picked third in the draft. He's really good. He just took the game winning shot to win the NCAA final four, but you know, he's not LeBron in high school. Yeah, he's picked third. Right. I remember going to see LeBron as a high school athlete because I live near Akron, Ohio, and he went to St. Vincent St. Mary's famously. He was very obviously one of the best NBA players as a freshman in high school. Jordan wasn't quite that. He was a different type of player. He was not as big and as physical as a lot of the guys dominating the NBA at the time. So doing a big deal with Jordan really was more of a gamble for Nike than they would do with really any athlete today. All right. So let's talk about what that deal was and why it was so different. Nike, like we just said, they're backs against the wall. They need to do something to save the company. And it's actually Straser who puts this deal together and together with Sunny Vicaro as portrayed the movie goes after Jordan, but Straser puts it all together. So the deal is a two and a half million dollar minimum guaranteed payout over five years. But that's not actually how the economics work. The revolutionary aspect of the deal was the payouts were calculated as a 5% royalty on gross revenue from the sales of air Jordans, the whole line, the shoes, the merchandise, everything. It's almost like the way the book industry works. They gave them an advance on the first 500K a year. But you know, once he sold through the advance, he was going to get a 5% participation on any of the shoe sales. Right. And it goes even deeper than that. This structure was completely revolutionary. So the way shoe deals were done at the time. So Magic Johnson and Larry Bird were the biggest stars in the NBA at the time. They were both signed with converse. Their deals were roughly $100,000 a year in cash payments to wear the converse weapons. Ben, have you ever worn the converse weapons? No, never. Do you know what they are? No, I don't. These are not airbirds. They weren't signature shoes. Nike says, we are going to make you a signature shoe. And then you are going to participate in the upside from that. They did that intentionally. It wasn't Jordan who asked for that. Nike wanted it that way. They thought we need to incentivize Jordan to build the dream here. We need to tie this all together. And it's brilliant counter positioning because all their competitors basically couldn't do it. Converse has too many stars to go all around signing these a you get some of the upside deals. Like Nike had freaking nothing to lose. They of course, they could give away some of the upside. If Converse is going to do this or it is going to do this, they actually do have quite a bit to lose by giving away upside. Of course, Nike turns out it was a big paycheck that they cut Jordan for years and years and years. But Nike was truly doing something here that their competitors could not. And it was smart to figure out what are the things that by being small and cash constrained and under penetrated in the NBA, what strengths do we have? Right. It goes even further. Also in the deal, the previous year, Nike had sold 400,000 pairs of Nike basketball shoes. They include a clause that Jordan gets of royalty on incremental sales in future years beyond the baseline of everything in the Nike basketball line. I did not realize that. This is how it works. We alluded to this earlier in the episode. It's the halo effect. Yes, the Jordans are important and we'll talk all about the Air Jordan ones in a second here. But it's not about the Jordans. It's about the swoosh and it's about the halo effect and the lifting up of the whole company's sales. I had no idea that Jordan got a royalty of non-Jordan shoes. He did. And this would eventually morph into the Jordan brand and the Jordan line and Zion Williams and Jason Tatum. And like they are Jordan athletes. This is part of it. So Nike also guarantees a minimum ad spend to promote the Jordan line. They're all in here. They also give Jordan stock options in the company. This is a hell of a deal. And it's smart for Nike. So there's something kind of interesting here, which is I was trying to figure out if I would describe this as a partnership. David, you and I are partners and acquired. We together benefit from the upside and the downside. That is what makes a partnership. Is this a partnership? Is there any scenario where Jordan has any downside or is all of the downside owned by Nike? No, it's all owned by Nike because there's the minimum guaranteed payment for two and a half million dollars over five years. That seems like a pittance today. But that was huge. Nobody else was getting that kind of money. So here's the thing. And this was chronicled in the movie. This is absolutely true. Jordan didn't want to work with Nike. Nike was for the second rate pro players. Jordan wanted a deedus. Jordan was a kid in the 80s, like a teenager. To the extent that sneakers had started to transcend into culture, it was a deedus. Hip hop, break dancing, track suits, shell toes. That was a deedus. That was what Jordan wanted. And so to put a finer point on this here, Jordan didn't want to be Nike's partner. So he basically wasn't. And they backed up the truck forum. And some of that truck was in variable comp. And some of that truck was in cash. But make no mistake. That is what this is. Is Nike having no leverage? Jordan having all the leverage and getting a landmark, unbelievable deal still to this day unmatched in terms of the amount of dollar outflows that has gone to an athlete because of it. Yeah. So Jordan actually takes the deal and shops it to a deedus afterwards. And he's like, I really don't want to go with Nike. Like I really want to be with the deedus. You don't have to match this. Can you just come anywhere in the ballpark close? And a deedus is like, we could give you $100,000 a year. It's a reluctantly. Jordan goes with Nike. But you're so right. And it's so important. It sets up the incentives, even though Jordan has no downside. He's like, well, Jordan also is on offense all the time. This is a guy who plays to win, so you give him the incentives. he and Phil Knight are going to get along real well. So here's what happens. In that first year, the Air Jordan Ones, this is going to be very incredible. Some of you know this, some of you going to listen to this, you're going to be blown away. Hang on, because there is a second part to this story that is not what you expect. In the first year, Air Jordan Ones sell $126 million. That's the shoes and the associated merchandise with it. David, do you know what their goal was? $3 million over three years. So it's about 15% of Nike's entire revenue for the whole year. In the first year, they sold 1.5 million pair in the first six weeks after releasing them. So put aside the halo royalties that Jordan is getting on the rest of Nike basketball. Let's take just the 5% of that $126 million that he made in his first year. That's $6.3 million that Jordan got from Nike in 1985. Do you know what Jordan's contract with the bulls was? It's too perfect. $6.3 million over seven years. So he made the exact same amount from the Nike deal in his first year. He made his entire seven year contract with the bulls in his first year. Wow. I always wanted to think of the story as like, wow, Jordan took some risk and it paid off big on the back end. It's like, it paid off immediately and he had to make no tradeoffs to do it. He got the cash guarantees and he got the royalty upside and it happened immediately and it only got bigger from there. Well, tradeoffs, I think there are two things. One, none of this would have happened if Jordan didn't turn out to be Jordan. Totally. And in fact, that's literally true. If he wasn't, what were the three clauses? If he didn't either win rookie of the year or win the NBA finals or win the MVP or something, there was an out in the contract. Oh, interesting. I didn't know that. They were basically like, we will give you the entire farm or 5% of the farm if you are a phenom and if you're not. Interesting. So there was some protection for Nike. Yes. And I think he's Michael Jordan. So whatever the thing was, he got all three of them. Oh, it wasn't the NBA finals. It wasn't become an all-star. Interesting. Which I think he did in the first year. Yes. Yes. Yes. That's right because the other players kept the ball away from him and they froze him out because they were so jealous. Okay. One Jordan had to become Jordan. To though, he sacrificed a huge amount. There's this great quote from Jordan when he retired for the first time. He said, "Fill night and Nike have made me into a dream." And that's very sweet on the surface, but that's very dark underneath of it. Michael Jordan's life was no longer the life of a normal person or anything close to it. And now, to a certain extent, that happens to every star bit like, today, you're like, duh. But back then, this was the first time this happened. Jordan became a dream. And that's very hard to live with as an actual human being. So there was some downside. Yeah, David, you're so right. Imagine that I come to you and I say, "Hey, I'm going to pay you and give you revenue upside." And all you have to do is do the thing that you're already good at and work harder the thing you're already passionate about. By the way, I'm going to use your face on $5 million of paid media in the next few months. It's like, whoa, what? But that's it for any normal life that I get, like right out the bat. Right. And he's a kid. Yes. So again, like this is all normal today. Everybody understands this. LeBron knew exactly what he was getting into when he signed with Nike at a high school and went to the NBA. But like, this was the beginning of all of this. So why did they sell so well? That's sort of this interesting $126 million in the first year. Like, why was the demand for them crazy? Did people just love Michael Jordan? Nike, this is, I think, the first time they really flex their ability to recognize an opportunity for an incredible marketing moment. So back in '84, Jordan starts wearing in preseason and in warm-ups, some modified airships because Nike's actually not done making the Air Jordan one yet. And so he's wearing these black and red shoes that are now called the Jordan breads, B-R-E-D. And these shoes are black and red. And in the NBA, you wear white. And that's it. And so Jordan's getting ready to play in the league with these black and red shoes, which again, he hasn't actually worn on court. And to this day, no one can find footage of him wearing the black and red precursor to the Air Jordan one, these modified airships on the court. So we're not actually sure that it happened. Right. Because it takes a while to actually make a new shoe. So the Air Jordan one is still in production. Right. But this black and red catches the league's attention. David Stern says, hey, you can't wear those. We're going to find you if you do. In fact, this results in literally writing a letter that doesn't state the dollar amount, but does say, hey, it's against league policy to where the black and red shoes. It doesn't mention the Air Jordan. It doesn't mention the Air Jordan one. It just says those black and red shoes. And this gives Nike this incredible opportunity to make a marketing moment out of it. Now, it would have actually been very expensive, because the way that the fine work technically, after you dig into it for a while is $1,000 for the first infraction, $5,000 for the second infraction. It may have even been the case that it was $10,000 for the third over an 82 game season and facing possible ejection. It's a big tab for Nike and it's a big problem for Jordan. And before he could even wear these black and red shoes in a game or have the opportunity to, they switched. The Air Jordan one, they made white and red. The one that is iconic that you can go buy and then they make all the remakes out of the AJ one is not the bread. And the bread is the thing that kicked up the big issue. Anyway, so Jordan, they just film him in this incredible commercial where he's just standing there in the camera pans down from his head to his feet, where he's wearing the black and red. And it just goes boom, boom, and puts these black bars over the shoes and they make a whole big deal out of the fact that these shoes are so great, they are banned in the NBA and you can go buy them at your local retailer and people go nuts. So great. Such a good story. And the code to all this is even after reading all these books and watching all these videos and these interviews, I actually don't know what dollars ever changed hands. Some people said it was $5,000 times in 82 game season. Some people said it was $1,000 ever and then nothing after that. I have even heard that no dollars ever exchanged between Nike and the NBA or Nike and Michael Jordan because the fine was never levied. It was a threat that then Nike made the Air Jordan ones before anything could be enforced. If anybody knows, please join this lack and shoot us a DM or put it in the general channel. I'm very curious. The thing that's so great, though, Nike, right? Like, it doesn't matter. It's the story. It's the dream. Right. They just put it in a freaking Hollywood movie that it was $5,000 times 82 games and that's all anybody's going to remember. Oh, man. Now is a great time to talk about one of our favorite companies, Statsig. Yes. There is a reason why the best product teams rely on Statsig, whether they are iterating on their core product features or shipping AI-powered experiences at scale. Yep. In the crazy speed of today's AI world, shipping fast is just table stakes now. It's basically trivial to build and deploy your app constantly. The real advantage is how quickly you learn what changes actually created value for customers and how fast you can use that signal to guide what you shipped next. This is where Statsig comes in. It brings experimentation, feature flags, and product analytics into one unified system so teams can ship safely, test rigorously, and directly link what they changed to how users actually behaved. So if you want to make learning your competitive advantage, whether you're building new AI experiences or just evolving your existing core product, go to Statsig.com/acquired to get started. Okay. So I mentioned a minute ago about the other side of the Air Jordan one story. It's not the dark side of Michael Jordan's fame. I think this is crazy. I don't think anybody really knows this. Nike sold $126 million worth of Air Jordan one shoes and merchandise in the first year. Fact. Another fact that gets put out there is that Nike sold $150 million of Air Jordan shoes and merchandise during the first three years. Now if you look at that, you're like, wait a minute. Huh. What happened? Something bad happened in years two and three. Yes. And indeed something bad did happen in years two and three and in year one. Nike needed that first year of the Jordan deal to be a huge hit. So they stuffed the channel. They pushed so much product on retailers and to the futures program and whatnot that that's how they hit the $126 million in sales. There wasn't actually $126 million of demand for Jordan products that year. So good commercial, but not $126 million of demand commercial. I mean, they're probably was I'm making this up 50, 70, $100 million of demand like unprecedented for any shoe in history for a single year. But Nike also effectively took some steroids on this one. Yep. That turned into a huge problem. Because the retailers and the buying public had a huge hangover the next year, in year two, that was compounded by two issues. One, Jordan broke his foot early in the season of his second year, missed most of the season. Two, the Air Jordan twos sucked. There's kind of no other way to put it. This was where Straser, who again in masterminded all of this, the Jordan deal, the Jordan ones working with his collaborator Peter Moore, all this stuff, they kind of went rogue. The Air Jordan twos cost $100. The Air Jordan ones cost $65. The Air Jordan twos were made in Italy out of premium Italian leather. This doesn't sound like the Nike playbook. This also doesn't sound like a good basketball shoot. Do you want to play basketball in Gucci leather? Probably not. Jordan didn't like the shoes. They were not good to play basketball and they were super stiff. They were hard to break in. They didn't fit his style, right? So he wasn't playing. B, he wasn't incentivized to push them. I mean, he was economically incentivized, but he didn't like the shoe. It all kind of fell apart. On top of that, as this is all happening, Straser and Moore too along with him, but really Straser is becoming increasingly rogue within Nike. He breaks away. He starts a new division in a separate office complex from the rest of the company called the new products division. This is like very Steve Jobs, McIntosh. 100%. I mean, literally like the parallels here. Unfortunately, it comes to a tragic end. He sets up his new campus, new division away from the rest of the company. He mandates that all new product launches have to go through him in this new group and that they're going to take control and streamline the process and the Jordan twos come out of this. Obviously, it's not a very good shoe. This becomes a big problem. Obviously, there's only one way that this is going to end. Either Straser is going to become CEO of Nike or Straser is going to leave Nike. Yep. And Straser ain't going to become CEO of Nike because one, Phil Knight is CEO of Nike. Two, Nike has a dual class voting structure. Phil Knight controls all the high vote shares and he controls the board. So, really, this is the end for Straser. They get in a huge fight in 1987. Straser leaves the company. He goes off and takes more with him, Peter Moore. And they start a consulting firm in Portland called Sports Incorporated. All of which is fine. And you could imagine a future where one day, Knight and Straser might reconcile. And they could be friends again and say, wow, Rob, you've had such incredible part of the Nike journey, contribution to everything. We can bury the hatchet. Well, Sports Incorporated takes on as one of their major clients, Adidas. And eventually, they're only client. And then eventually, Adidas buys the company, moves their North American headquarters to Portland, Oregon and makes Straser the CEO of Adidas America. And then incredibly tragically, this is just terrible. Eight months into the job, Straser has a massive heart attack and dies, I believe, at age 46. Oh, it's just terrible. Yeah. But the betrayal that this engenders, it's irreversible. Ben, you talked about earlier than Nike culture. There's a quote from Jeff Johnson, blue ribbon employee number one, who I think had already left the company at this point. He's asked in the book, just do it about Rob becoming CEO of Adidas. And he says, I know they, Adidas aren't what they once were, but Adidas people were the Huns. I would starve to death before I would work for Adidas. Wow. And then when Rob dies, Phil does not attend his funeral. It's really just heartbreaking. There's a quote that sums it up in this Portland monthly article that talks about why Straser isn't known to many people outside the companies and why his role sort of fades into history. And they say, why? Because his work was vital to both, which makes it incredibly difficult to neatly write him into the mythology of either one. For Adidas, it was a brand revival conceived and executed by a fat American ex-Nike guy and his artsy partner. For Nike, Straser's overachievements are overshadowed if not severely tarnished because he was a traitor from Phil Knight. It might have been okay if he had just quit, but he went to work for Adidas, an intolerable betrayal I never forgave him. Yeah. Oof. And still, the repercussions of this exist to this day. Adidas's American headquarters are still in Portland, Oregon. Yep. And they poach a lot of Nike people. Yep. So, okay. Back to Jordan, the plot thickens here. Jordan's not happy. Straser was his guy there. Yeah. Straser was his guy. Straser leaves, starts this new company, starts working for Adidas, becomes the CEO of Adidas. Jordan's going to go to Adidas. The writing's on the wall here. I mean, Jordan's deal is up in 90, right? Not only is this deal up in 90, he tries to renegotiate. So, in year three, Jordan is so unhappy. The wheels are in motion at Adidas. Adidas with Straser, not yet at the helm, but whispering in the year, is going to be willing to do a Jordan-type deal for Jordan. Michael always wanted Adidas anyway. He's going to break the deal with Nike and go with them. Yep. So, back to Nike and Phil. This is serious wartime mode. They schedule a pitch meeting with Jordan. This is, I think, towards the end of year three of the deal to try and save him, to try and re-sign him. They're willing to do anything. Renegotiate the deal, give him more economics, give him another shoe, anything. Phil goes to a bright young star within the Nike design group. Tinker Hatfield, formerly of Nike's architecture and building planning team. He wasn't even a hired as a shoe designer. He was an architect. This is super important. Tinker was another bowerman guy. He ran track for bowerman at Oregon and studied architecture. And then he comes into Nike and together with Mark Parker, who would become the CEO of Nike, they designed the Air Max, they designed the Air Trainer. They're part of Nike's revival on the running and training side and competing ultimately in aerobics with the Air Trainer. Now that Strasser and Morgan, Tinker is the star that he can give Jordan. He says, go fly out to Chicago, go with Howard White, Jordan's guy at Nike, go talk to him, come home like bearing your shield or on it essentially. So, Tinker goes out. I remember he's trained as an architect and then became a shoe designer. What do architects do when they meet with their clients? They ask them questions. They say, what do you want? What are your specifications? Tinker sits down with Jordan and he's like, tell me what you don't like about the Jordan, too. They're too tough to break in. Okay, cool. What else is wrong with them? They're high tops. That's too much weight. I'm Michael Jordan. I need lightness on my feet. I want to fly. I don't want the extra weight. Okay, cool. In an ideal world, Michael, what shoe would you want? What would it look like? Michael's like, well, I want a great basket ball shoe that will also look great off the court, but it needs to be both. They can't be like the Jordan, too, that look great off the court, maybe, but sucked as a basketball shoe. Tinker's like, okay, noted. So he goes back to Nike, works feverishly. Jordan comes in for this last ditch pitch meeting. He shows up four hours late. Phil starts the meeting and it's like, oh boy, here we go. Tinker, like an architect has the shoe under a black cloth on the table, just like Steve Jobs in the key notes many years later. Phil hands the meeting over to Tinker and he's like, Michael, I took notes on our conversation. Here is the Jordan three. And he pulls the shroud off and hands the shoe to Jordan. And he's like, it's the shoe you asked for. He goes right down the checklist. Soft leather that doesn't need to be broken in. You can wear a new pair in every single game. Mid-cut height, not a high top, not a low top. The support you need without the weight of a high top. Elephant print leather for style off the court that won't detract from performance on the court. And then the piester as he stands, no swoosh. There's a little swoosh on the back tab. The main logo is the Jordan jump man logo on the tongue. The jump man logo did exist beforehand. Peter Moore had actually designed it, but it was never in the prime position. It was always the swoosh. And then the jump man. That's like heretical at Nike at this point to not have the swoosh be the main character. But Michael Jordan didn't really want to be a Nike. So the only way to keep him is to kind of hide the swoosh. It's kind of like hard getting back to the beginning of like Phil Knight could have had 100% of blue ribbon sports or he could have had 51% of Bill Bauerman's blue ribbon sports. Yeah, it's pretty crazy because the whole point of these deals is to get swoosh impressions. And they were really to say we think it's going to be profitable enough in the long run to be in business with you that we will not put the swoosh on the side of these shoes and they were extremely right to do that. Indeed. So as part of that, they renegotiate the deal. Jordan agrees to stay with Nike. The Jordan brand becomes its own sub-segment within Nike, its own shoes, its own clothes, its own colors, its own logo, its own advertising, all managed standalone. And then ultimately, this would take several years, but it would become Zion Williamson, wears Jordans, Jason Tatum, wears Jordans. The University of Michigan, for some reason, is Jordan not Nike as their official uniform supplier. UNC is Jordans. And so do you know what changed in that renegotiation? Yes. So they extend the deal for seven more years. I believe at the same 5% royalty on gross sales. But there's the new massive further commitment to making the Jordan sub-brand much more of its own brand. And they up the total guarantee to at least $18 million. So from two and a half to 18 in three years. Wow. Ultimately, just like the two and a half, that's meaningless because Jordan brand sales go back up in 88, 89, 90, on and on and on, 200, 300, 400, 500, 500, million in sales. This is when they do the spike in Mike ads with Spike Lee. It's gotta be the shoes. And Wyden Kennedy gotta be the shoes. Jordan earns over the course of this contract. Easily, at least $100 million easily over the seven year. Yeah, it's just dwarfing what he's earning from the NBA. In his total career from basketball contracts, he made something like $90 million. So I mean, you even said it in that first year just from the get-go with his Nike yearnings were way outpacing his NBA earnings. Yep. Now, interestingly, at retail, again, back to this halo strategy, the Jordan threes and then all Jordan subsequently really, this is when they become the luxury brand. The Jordan's are Nike's Louis Vuitton trunk. Yeah, they make a lot of revenue from them. Yeah, they sell a lot of them. But you know what, it also helps them sell a lot of wallets. Yeah. So the Jordan three is priced at like $200 or something? Oh, $100. But this is 1988, 1989. Right. Okay. That makes sense. All right. So you mentioned how much you made at the end of that seven year contract. There's something mind blowing going on today in 2023 with the Jordan brand. And I don't think people quite have a handle on what has happened in the last three years. So the Jordan brand is the fastest growing part of Nike. Nike grows like 10% a year. The Jordan brand over the last three years keeps growing at like 35% and it does billions in revenue growing at 35%. So this past year, they just reported FY 22, the Jordan brand did $6.6 billion in revenue. Let's assume that the five percent figure is still accurate enough. It's accurate ish. Jordan's making over $300 million a year from the Jordan brand at a five-ish percent royalty. He retired for the last time 20 years ago. There is no athlete making $300 million a year. Michael Jordan will make five maybe $10 billion over his lifetime from the Jordan brand. Absolutely unprecedented for an athlete. He's effectively a founder of a brand that is growing 35% at six plus billion dollar revenue scale with all the operations and distribution and marketing of Nike. It is unfathomable. So he did active work for many years in order to build the brand equity. But he does passive work now to keep it alive. Of course, he has sort of input on who they're signing to the Jordan brand. He is sort of a vote in that. But in Michael staying out of trouble and Michael staying the dream, he builds a tremendous amount of brand equity and Nike reaps 95% of that. So like they're perfectly happy with this arrangement. They're happy to cut him $300 million checks. I would be two if I was earning the other side of the $6.6 billion. But Jordan totally has had to shape his life in order to be the dream Michael and continue to be that. He is so synonymous with the brand that he has to be perfect to keep the brand doing what it's doing. Yes. And that's the dark side for Michael. One more really critical thing I want to say about all this in Jordan and the building of the dream and the changing of culture before we move on to all the rest of Nike history, which we will cover here, you can't ignore to again the timing in this. All of this coincided with the rise of ESPN and sports center. And that was so important in the early days like when Steve Prifantaine was on the cover of Sports Illustrated or some of the tennis players. There was like there was a Nike line of, oh, we could spend $X million in advertising. But if we get our shoes on the cover of Sports Illustrated, that's worth $20 million. With ESPN and Sports Center, those athletes and Michael Jordan being all over that 24/7 every night, that was $20 million a night of free advertising. That's a great point. So off the back of the rise of the Jordan brand, in 1988, they launched the Just Do It campaign with the very first, I think this is the first widening Kennedy ad, right? Second real big one. The first was the Revolution ad with the Beatles that they did for the Air Max. Okay. Another ticker hat field in Mark Parker joint. And so they're kind of finding their footing again. They're realizing that okay, we can diversify outside of running. We can find a lot of places to sell the dream. We can make different products to monetize the dream to let people participate. Their market cap hits a billion dollars at this point in 1988. So investors are starting to wake up to like, huh, they're building something really special here. They open their first Nike town in Portland. The early 90s, late 80s, early 90s are just all good for Nike. I think by 91, their market cap hit five billion by 96, their market cap hit 10 billion. And they're really just executing the strategy that we talked about, but at scale until they get hit with everything we already talked about on the labor challenges and that controversy. Yep. So that's a tough few years. Interestingly, like right around the dot-com crash is also kind of tough for them. Their market cap drops from 20 billion to eight billion dollars. They weren't in any way yet a tech company, but tough times right around the same time period. An interesting thing from that front, losing Kobe to Adidas was big. Really big. And people forget this. People forget that Kobe was an Adidas athlete first. Yes. In the same way that people forget that Kanye was a Nike athlete or a Nike rapper, rapper first. But yeah, those early 2000s were not a great time for Nike. But then interestingly, Kobe was so unhappy at Adidas and wanted what Nike could give him that he bought Adidas out of his deal to move over to Nike. Oh, yeah, I have the numbers. So Kobe was with Adidas from 96 to 2002 and he hated the Kobe twos so bad that it's rumored that he paid eight million dollars to get out of his contract so he could move over to Nike. Yeah. That was a huge win for Nike and a big turnaround. Like 2002 is really when it started to get good again for them. Yep. I'm sure part of that was the shoes and yeah, by all accounts, the Kobe twos sucked. I do think there is and this will get to analysis in a little bit. Nike can do something for athletes for the big superstars that the other companies can't. Oh, and right around the same time in 2003 is when LeBron came into the NBA and Nike signed him out of high school. Yep. Okay. So 2002, they get Kobe 2003. They get LeBron. They've cleaned up their image. They're cleaning up their factories. They're cleaning up their supply chain in 2003. They acquire a converse for $309 million. They're once faux and now Nike's in the multi-billion dollar market cap and converse is a tiny fraction of that size 2003. Michael Jordan retires and it's fascinating just to get a quick data point. The Jordan brand that year in 2003 is doing $700 million a year and today it's doing $6.6 billion and that's been the delta since he stopped playing basketball. I mean, the thing is both of those numbers are bonkers. Right. $700 million is bonkers and $6 billion is bonkers. Yeah. Jordan has completely transcended a sponsorship deal and turned into a brand. The notion, the platonic ideal of Jordan is a brand more than a human. So in 2006, another important thing happens and most people didn't realize it at the time because keep in mind 2006 over in Apple Steve Jobs is still the CEO. So not a lot of people know this guy named Tim Cook's name, but Tim joins Nike's board. I believe in like late 2005 he joined the board. He immediately starts helping Nike into understanding how to use digital technology to transform their business and into 2006, they launched the Nike Plus iPod. - Yes, yes. - Which was not a terribly successful product in the market, but man, did it help Nike understand where the puck is going? - And this was the first corporate use of Plus in a product name. - Oh, was it really? - This is the moment that has led to the terribleness of the sea of digital corporate products today. - We all have this to think. - Plus this, plus that, plus blah, blah, blah, I'm surprised there's not a Jordan Plus out there. No, there's not because Jordan is too well managed to brand. - I actually did not know that's funny. - That was the origin of Plus. - It was interesting, 'cause it was this little thing that you would put in the install of certain shoes and it would measure your stride length and you're, you know, all the metrics about running and it would report it to your iPod, 'cause it had a little like 30 pin connector thing you could put into your iPod. It was the most clunky, clujy thing ever, but as that evolved into the fuel band and then as the fuel band evolved into apps on your iPhone, Nike started really building a way to have a relationship with their customers directly and not just through their products but with this sort of suite of services. And 2006 and then again in like 2013, 14, they had a sort of a new strategy start. There's really these clear moments in time where the company changed its DNA and I go all the way back to 2006 on the technology one. It also completely changed their acquisition strategy 'cause up until then they had been acquiring brands. They bought Converse, they had bought Starter, Starter was gonna kind of be there like Walmart brand. - Oh, that's right, Colhawn. - Colhawn, yeah. And I think this sort of aha moment happened where they realized actually what we wanna be doing is pouring everything into the flywheel of the Nike brand, the divested a bunch of stuff, but they started acquiring capabilities from a bunch of these other companies to help them make this tech migration. It's like a two decade thing where they have these two different strategies that are happening at the same time. One is the digitization and to give you a stat on how impressive that is across the four mobile apps that Nike operates today, they have 500 million users a quarter who are now using Nike digital apps from their e-commerce app to their running app. - Run club, train club, sneakers. - And the Nike mobile store. Huge user base. All sort of started at this moment in time where they realized we should be in technology and B, we should be making acquisitions not of other brands but of technologies that we can integrate to help us extend our brand and participate more in the lives of our customers. The other thing, and this is a little bit later, this is more of the 2013-14 era, they pull the trigger on this big strategy shift away from what Phil Knight had sort of pioneered with the retail relationships to go direct. And Nike started to realize in this new era, this internet era, this global era where you have to be at scale to execute certain strategies, they're gonna be the player at scale that can execute a direct strategy that can operate Nike.com to sell shoes directly to customers, that can operate retail stores and all these different places to go directly to customers. And they're not all the way there. And I think there's a lot of like we'll talk in their sort of bearable case about where they are in that transition and how successful it will be. But there is this tipping point where a brand becomes the scale player. Like think about Disney in media. They've become the scale player. They can run a different playbook and go directly to customers in a way where other places that make content need to integrate with the existing distribution channels. Disney can make a 10, 15 year transition, especially with the right technology to go direct. Nike's basically betting that they're also one of these hero brands that can run that playbook. - For context, today Nike is what more than twice the size of Adidas, who is more than three times, I think the size of the number three player, which is Skechers maybe. - Yep, it's super power law distributed. The other aspect of that is personalization. Nike I actually think is really at the forefront of a parallel personalization with what started as Nike ID. And now as I think called Nike by me, but anybody can make their own Nike shoes in their own colors with their own designs on them to be able to do that at scale with their customer base and to produce the standard lines that requires a level of scale economies that nobody else can really match. - Okay, so that's like the 2014 era where they really start to execute this digital and direct migration. Around this time, you have this very old idea of sneaker heads starting to take root in a big way, this huge growth category where the secondary market for shoes, in most situations you would think like used shoes are worthless. And like I'm being tongue in cheek here as most secondary market shoes are not used. - Well, until recently, any mainstream person would have said, of course, to that statement. - Right, but there became David to your point about Jordan and Nike creating culture and participating in cultural movements and changing the way that people move around in the world and having a sneaker as a thing that defines you rather than a sneaker as a thing you throw on for the tennis court, but you wear proper shoes any time you go somewhere else. They really have figured out how to reach an audience and tap into their identity in a way that the original film night track shoe thing never could have dreamed. And shoes have become this method for self-expression and the secondary market is huge. It's like a some estimate, two billion dollar, some people estimate six billion dollar category. Keep in mind, all of athletic shoes are what, what did I say, 150-ish, somewhere around there. So still a tiny fraction compared to the athletic sneaker market broadly. But who would have thought that used special edition shoes or secondary sales of shoes could possibly be a single digit billion dollar ecosystem? - Right, I mean, this is companies like Goat and StockX and we'll talk about this more in analysis, but Nike has made the, I think, very conscious decision not to capture any of that value. - Yeah, I'm fascinated by that. I think they've figured out clever ways to make a bunch of money on limited edition sneakers without having to be the marketplace for all the secondary sales. - The other way that Nike potentially could capture this value would be to massively increase their prices. And this is really interesting. I think this is where Nike is different from the luxury brands that we've covered, the LVMH's, the Porsche's. Porsche makes tens of thousands of dollars of incremental gross margin with their library wine colors that you can buy. Nike sells these incredibly limited editioned retro and otherwise sneakers, but they sell them for 150 bucks, 200 bucks, maybe 300 bucks, like not a lot of money. The instant that they get purchased, you can turn around and sell them on the secondary market for $5,000, some of these shoes, $10,000, maybe more. That is a very intentional decision by Nike not to capture that value. And I think the reason they do it is to make all of this work, to make the dream work in a way that is applicable to everybody on the planet and not just Louis Vuitton's market, is they have to keep it attainable. And so they're willing to let that $26 billion or whatever, go to secondary players, go to StockX in order to keep the dream alive. - It's pretty crazy. I don't think there is anything that I can buy from Nike that costs $500. - Yeah, and yet Nike absolutely produces many items that are worth way more than $500. - Right, and it's not even a high number. It's not like, oh, I can't buy something from Nike for $10,000, like I really can't think of a single thing that I could possibly purchase for them, even for $500. - Right, the one product that I know of was the mags, the backs of the future shoes that they actually produced. But those were for Michael J. Foxx's charity. I think they made 50 of them and sold them for $17,000 if I have that right. But A, that was for charity. B, that was like obviously a stun. That's not Louis Vuitton. - All right, here's what I can buy for $490. I can get American and National League jerseys for the All Star game, and they have some football shoes that cost $300. Curious. - Wow. Crazy. - But the point still stands, they make it up in volume. (laughing) - Yes, I really can't think of anything else off the top of my head where a company is making such a obvious and clear choice to give value to other players in the ecosystem, whether there's be companies or just people who are arbitraging. - Yeah, just like a luxury brand, they have to market the dream, but their mechanism for capturing value is entirely different. - Yep. - Okay, I'm gonna move us quickly here through 2018 to today so we can analyze the business in its current state. So in 2018, something pretty special happened. They pulled the trigger on a widening Kennedy ad with Colin Kaepernick about standing for something. - The dream crazy ad. - Yup. the text of which obviously was just Colin Kaepernick's face and says believe in something even if it means sacrificing everything they accompanied it with a commercial it launched online Kaepernick tweeted it then they did these big billboards in every major city. I remember the first time I saw it and I was like whoa Nike executed perfectly on exactly what they were trying to do here it strikes you emotionally much like many of the Nike commercials. It was at a particular moment in time where they saw an opportunity to do something that they felt was right and become the center of media conversation for like months like this was the advertisement of the year and in fact I know that when they launched this they actually scrapped their plans for the whole rest of the year for a whole bunch of ad campaigns that were already ready for a different way that they were going to do the 30th anniversary relaunch of just do it and instead. So I said made everything in this new tone this Kaepernick ad struck such an incredible cord and made a lot of people super angry on the sort of other side of the political aisle of this particular issue that Nike was supporting that like it entirely changed Nike's media plan in every geography for every sport for the rest of the year. This was two years before Black Lives Matter became a really big thing with George Floyd this actually was like a big risk if this had been done two years later. It would have played out very differently it would have been way less of a risk they would have been just like every other company just like everyone else. Yeah, and it's quite illustrative that we aren't really talking about anything that Kaepernick did we just assume that the whole audience has seen this ad understands the power of this ad that says a lot about the ad itself the metacontext around how we're talking about it. I do think this is a good place to open up what is Nike's media strategy because it's very clear especially over the last 20 years that they pick a social issue that they feel strongly about. And they drive a truck through it in the American media market and say hey we want to prioritize this and we want to say we stand for this and we want to say we stand for and support something. And there's a cynical way to take that which is like they've done the analysis and they believe that in doing this they're going to build more love than they're going to piss people off from you know those people are worth losing because we prefer these people instead and we think these people is disposable income is high enough for there's enough of them or whatever. I actually don't think that's the way that it operates I think it is like an executive and creative gut feel this is a set of values we feel are right and we're going to continue to bet the company on the people that identify with that set of values are a great customer segment for us and we can grow within it. I really do think it's quite touchy feeling. Yep. And this is also you to back to the cavernic had this is to my mind the pinnacle of the brand halo element of this yeah cavernic played football not an important sport for Nike in terms of shoe sales hadn't played in several years. That's right wasn't about football he was sitting there on the Nike roster getting paid there's a bunch of press about how they were thinking about actually cutting him. And then someone internally is like well what are you thinking this is a huge opportunity for us but like it's hard to be a Nike athlete when you're no longer a professional athlete. Yeah, this is like the ultimate example for me of the ad the sponsorship the campaign it's not about the shoes it's about the halo. Yeah, despite that going really well for them in 2018 they did just have a whole bunch of other controversies big me to issues at the executive level the person that everyone thought was going to be the CEO and next after Mark Parker. And many of his people around him were shown the exit there was the whole organ project that's their competitive running group with doping and all the alleged abuse going on there. So these sort of like coming out of 2019 they really did kind of just need to like clean things up and write the ship. And it was very fortunate that well all of this was going on their big competitors were all kind of screwing up and especially going into covid like none of their competitors figured it out. But there's these smaller shoe brands and you look at on or Hoka or Brooks a lot of these niche players have done well in growing but Nike hasn't had a formidable scale competitor. Adidas has just been nothing but mistakes over there the last few years and so Nike has had some of these issues but has kind of been fine. And after they brought in John Donahoe they've been able to clean up the organization reset for the next chapter execute this shift to a direct and digital strategy while I think they take a little bit of a breath and say like. Okay, what does Nike in 2030 look like and how can we make sure that we don't sort of stagnate here. Oh, this is great. I have so much to say let's officially transition to analysis and do power and then you can update us on the business today as we go. Great. So okay power for new listeners as part of the analysis on every episode we do a segment called power which is based on Hamilton Helmer's incredible business strategy book seven powers. Yep, which is basically what is it that enables a business to achieve persistent differential returns and be more profitable than their closest competitor on a durable basis. So David, I think there is a trap laid for us on this episode, but I'm curious you said you had a transition to power so I'm curious where you were going. Okay, so obviously we're going to talk about brand here in a minute, but but scale economies. Yes, are written all over this company in this episode for me and this is the clearest thing in my mind that makes this industry and Nike's position and strategy within it so different from say an LVMH or a Porsche or any of the others. I think it's portion scale economies, but if you look at the sneaker industry, we talked about this a minute ago it's such a power law. There's Nike, there's a data that's half their size and then the third place player is well less than half of a data size. Yes, after that is sketchers than Puma, then a six converse under our, but like massively declining market share curve. Yep. Okay, now compare that to the rest of the apparel industry. It's wild. How different it is, right? Think about fashion, think about clothes, think about shirts, think about pants, think about jackets, think about whatever. No other corner of the apparel industry looks like this in that there are two, three, four companies that make a huge share of all of the sneakers that the world wears. That's wild. It's totally wild. It also is massively scale economies driven because the way that you acquire customers and retain customers is with this brand halo of sponsoring these big athletes and putting on these large, very expensive branded events and competitions. And small companies can't do that. The primary way that you get someone to be a 20 year customer of Nike is to go and spend money on the biggest athletes in the world. And the whole game just like Netflix is Nike's acquiring content. Nike is acquiring the LeBronz of the world to be Nike athletes. And the LeBronz of the world are going to go where there's the most dollars flowing to them and who can give them the most dollars, the people with the biggest customer bases. It's not just that Nike is paying LeBron a check every year for a lot of money like Congress was back in the day. It's not like, oh, here's your $100,000 check, right? There's alignment and an incentive to be part of the biggest machine. So like the Kobe situation is so illustrative of this, right? Kobe was with Adidas. Yeah, maybe the Kobe two sucked like I don't know any didn't like the shoe. I doubt that was the issue. I think the issue was what Nike could do for Kobe. And thus what Kobe could participate in was exponentially higher than even what Adidas could do. And like that is huge power. Yeah, it's fascinating. I mean, the game is figure out how to have the most customers that you can sell a parallel to and then you get to buy the biggest billboards and you get to align interests with the biggest billboards. It's a content game on the customer acquisition side. And you can make the best commercials that are the most inspiring. I mean, that I guess doesn't take as many dollars, you know, you can produce an incredible commercial for $100,000. But the talent in it is going to cost you millions. The Super Bowl slot is going to cost you millions. I think a lot of Nike's power on a go forward basis is totally the scale economy stuff. Yeah, totally agree. And they had lots of counter positioning in the old days like the whole Jordan thing was a pure counter positioning play. Yes, in that the other companies couldn't do it because Magic and Bird would never tolerate Jordan getting a fundamentally much better deal. Correct. Yeah, they had too much to lose. So brand, I think this is a trap on this episode. I think Nike is a brand first and foremost. What they do is build this incredible brand, sell the dream support. or athletes inspire people, but when you literally understand how Hamilton defines brand power, and the perfect example is the Tiffany ring. You get a Tiffany ring versus an unbranded diamond ring of the exact same caliber. You're probably paying 10 to $30,000 more for the Tiffany engagement ring, and there's a pureness to that brand premium concept. Does Nike really have a brand premium? Or is it the athletes that have the brand and Nike's scale economies let them buy the athletes brands? Right. As Trent Griffin would put it wholesale transfer pricing, where actually the athletes are the ones that sort of hold the power and Nike's happy to pay out for it and pass through all the profit pool to the pinnacle athletes. And questionably, that was the case in 1984 with Michael Jordan. And then again, in 1987 and '88, when they renegotiated the deal, right. But let's look at an Air Force one or a dunk, you know, the dunk lows that everyone's wearing right now, they're not really generating pricing power on that. Maybe off of something purely unbranded, but off of Adidas, people are more likely to buy the dunk low SB than whatever the Adidas equivalent is. But the prices are pretty equivalent. Yeah. They're not paying more for them. Right. Now, maybe again, that's a intentional choice by Nike. But in this category, I do think, yeah, if the dunk's cost more than the Adidas shelters, I don't know. Maybe shelters would be popular right now. Right. For whatever reason, Nike has either decided not to or can't raise the prices where their brand differentiates them. And I think it's fascinating. The Nike running shoes that I buy that are $160, $180. The equivalent Adidas pair is $160, $180, same with the equivalent new balance pair. And so if you assume that they do have brand power, Nike is making a conscious choice not to capture that value in making all those shoes more expensive than competitors. Yeah. But I do think, despite you saying the trap, and I think there is a big trap in overestimating brand value of Nike, it does definitely have brand value and brand power. Yeah. It shows up in a different way. It shows up not in pricing. It shows up in the fact that I often don't look at a competitor. I will only go by the Nike thing. Yep. My thought exercise on this, which is a little different than my usual brand power thought exercise, which is, can you kill it? Can you intentionally kill Nike? No, you can't. It can't die. It will be with us in 100 years. Oh, that's quite a take. Oh, you don't think Nike is going to be here in 100 years? I think you could totally kill Nike in the next 30 if you wanted to. I also don't like your premise. I disagree with your DOR thing that the really good brands or the way you can tell something's luxury or a durable brand is like, if you couldn't kill it, if you tried, I think that's too squishy. Okay. Fair enough. I have something way less squishy for you here, though. Okay. I think I was talking with Scout Reams about this. I have no data on this whatsoever. But I don't think it is a controversial statement to say that the swish logo is tattooed on more bodies around the globe than any other company logo. I'm sure that's the case. It has to be the case. So if that's not brand power right there, I know it doesn't fit Hamilton's definition. Yeah. It's a slight of hand. What Nike is first and foremost is a brand. What the entity is is a brand because they don't make sneakers, which we'll talk about. And second here, they don't seem to charge more than their competitors. I'm literally looking at Adidas gross profit margins are on average higher than Nike's. Nike's current rolling last four quarter gross profit margin is 44%. Adidas is 46% and Adidas every single quarter for the last 10 years has had a higher gross margin. What is going on here? Why isn't Nike with a better brand than anyone else in their space? And one of the hero brands in the entire world, they don't seem to be getting a special Nike markup. This is again, and this is purely conjecture. I do think this is an intentional decision on Nike's part. I think they absolutely could sell $500, $1,000, $5,000, $10,000 Nike items. They absolutely could. And they choose not to. I think because if they did that, what one thing we didn't talk about. So Nike announced a few years ago that their whole marketing strategy was going to be reoriented around I think 12 cities in the world. And they were going to focus everything they did from a marketing standpoint on thinking about what it would mean to be interesting in those cities. So what's behind that? And the cities are like New York, Los Angeles, Tokyo, Shanghai, Rio, Paris, et cetera. And I think what's behind that is Nike needs to be accessible to the taste makers in those cities. And that doesn't mean wealthy people. That means people on the streets. That means young people. That means people who can't afford $5,000 items but want to be participating in the pinnacle of Nike. I'm not talking about $5,000 items. I'm talking about charging $200 instead of $180 because there's a swoosh on it. And the market price for those shoes seems to be $180, no matter who makes them. Why don't they do that? Is it because of what it says right at the top of their IR website, which is Nike Inc. is a growth company and they care more about growth than harvesting profit dollars? It could be. I think the thing that is so confounding here is the secondary markets. There is no question that the value of many Nike items is well above their selling price. Right. And I don't think that's the case for Adidas, maybe for some items, but I doubt as many as Nike. Yeah. I don't know. I don't have a clear answer here. I think my best answer is they want the most swooshes out there in the world. And there's some sweet spot where they're willing to trade off profit dollars for that, or these sort of continued brand presence where the swoosh feels like a ubiquitous thing and a brand people celebrate and are excited about and they just want it reinforced on everyone everywhere. So they're willing to give margin dollars for that. Oh, maybe this actually all comes back to scale economies because it's kind of the same thing with Amazon, right, or Netflix. For a given price, Netflix can offer more value or could in the past offer more value than anyone else. Amazon with Prime can offer way more value than anybody else. This is the scale economy play. Yeah. I don't think the rest of the powers are particularly worth talking about. The most interesting thing is there's not any switching costs. There's not any network economies. There's not a cornered resource. I frequently switch shoe brands all the time. And that would be like one of the things that I'm least excited about about any shoe or a parallel company is unlike tech businesses. There's no potential for any form of lock in and there's no potential for really any form of network effects. Like, come on, how am I going to benefit from other people wearing Nike's? Maybe like in the Nike run out being able to share stuff with my friends who also have the Nike run out, but it's thin. That's not how they make their money. Yep. Agreed. So interestingly, I guess what I would conclude on power is Nike is first and foremost a brand that from a seven powers perspective, most leverages scale economies to get their outsized profitability totally agree with that. Nice. Okay. I will catch us up now and give us the numbers on the business today and then we can go into playbook. So Nike is at absolutely astonishing scale. They are a $51 billion revenue business growing 10% year over year. As I mentioned at the top of the show, they're the largest apparel company in the world except for the luxury category, LVMH and Hermes, got to beat. Nike sales to women alone are bigger than all of Lulu Lemons revenue. Wow. Take that in for a minute. That's shocking. I feel like that's an illustrative stat and Nike has really lagged in developing products for women. That's exactly what I was going to say. It's just $8.6 billion of their $50 billion of revenue. Wow. It's like every corner of Nike is bigger than the brand that you associate with that space. You know? Yep. The Nike brand does $49 billion. So there's some other revenue in their converse and I think there's some other catch all. But basically there's Nike in converse and Nike includes Jordan. So I mentioned earlier this shift to direct that Nike has been in the midst of for basically like a 10 year journey, about 60% is still wholesale, is still sold through retailers. And impressively 40% of this very large business, $50 billion of revenue business is now done selling products directly to consumers either in stores or on their website. I can't imagine how difficult that transition is to make when you forge these like long partnerships with retailers. Come back to that in a second. Their gross margin profile 44%. So it's sort of interesting looking historically, David, we've been a tech podcast and we've looked at lots of software businesses that have these 70, 80% gross margin. businesses. You know, Nike has real costs. As you would expect with materials, labor, logistics, cost of storing all this inventory, 44% not bad. Let's just remember luxury. LVMH is a 68% gross margin business. Hermes is a 71% gross margin business. So Nike is better than a car company, but ain't no luxury. Yep. So Nike does 6.4 billion in operating income. So that's their income before taxes, 12.5% operating margin. So that's sort of what you should think about their sort of take home, not a software company. Yeah. Lots of costs involved in this business. They have eight and a half billion dollars sitting in inventory, which even for Nike is high. That's a point we'll revisit in our analysis here. Unlike the Nike of old, they also in addition to that inventory have 10.7 billion dollars in cash and similar equivalents. So the company is no longer constrained by how much capital they have available to them. While it's been a growth company, they kind of don't know what to do with the cash. It's sort of this interesting question of well, the way they started is that they could use 100% of their cash all the time to go buy more inventory and reinvest that in the business. And that was true for like a couple decades. They've now had 30 consecutive quarters of increasing dividend payouts. So it's a dividend stock with 11 billion of cash on hand in addition to continually paying these dividends. It's funny. This doesn't jive for me with the statement on the investor relations page, Nike is a growth company. I mean, I guess 10% growth at their scale is impressive. 35% growth in the Jordan brand is very impressive. So you might think it seems like they could reinvest more in the business to grow faster. They already spend $4 billion a year on demand creation. And I assume that's like their sports marketing budget. I think the wording on the financial statement is interesting too. They literally look at it as we're basically going out and buying media to create demand for our products. Yep. I mean, that's 100% what it is. Yes. Like we're saying, it's not really that different than Netflix acquiring or producing content for Netflix. Right. They just monetize in a different way. Yep. Footwear is almost 3x the apparel business on a revenue basis. So at least by revenue, footwear is still their bread and butter. And in part, it's just selling sneakers to people that go wear sneakers every day and wear them out once or twice a year, then need to go buy some more sneakers. And that's like most people in the world. It's a pretty incredible market that they now get to address, you know, $150 billion or athletic footwear market. It's crazy. When you look at this pretty interesting thing that they list, which is their wholesale equivalent revenue breakdown, which is basically saying, yeah, we sell some of this direct, but we want to put apples to apples and make these unit sales, sort of adjust it as if they were all sold through our wholesale channel. Men's is 51%. Women's is 21%. Kids is 12%. And the Jordan brand broken out separately. Like all of this excludes Jordan. The Jordan brand is the $6.6 billion business that makes up the other 16% of that pie chart. Holy God. Yeah. Men's inclusive of Jordan, if you just assume Jordan is three quarters men, that means that they're selling 64% of their product to men. So remember when I said at IPO, they sell sneakers to men. It's like kind of the same business as it was, but a super different business that it was at the same time. Yes. In some sports specifically, like just to dive into one example, they have a near monopoly in basketball shoes. Nike and the Air Jordan brand's share of performance basketball was 86% and the stats a few years old. It was right before the pandemic, but the dominance was even more prevalent in the lifestyle basketball category where they have 96% share. I have to wonder the other shoe companies who are still doing big deals in the NBA. Let's take under armor and Steph Curry here in San Francisco. Like, what are they doing? Name another under armor athlete. I mean, they exist, but I don't think I could, right? Like, why? And obviously it's worth it to Steph Steph could sign with Nike tomorrow, but under armor is just paying him a boatload of cash. And I think also gave him tons of equity in the company and whatnot. But like, why? I mean, I just think it's bad move for under armor. I think this is the classic thing that we've talked about in 11 different industries of don't get caught in the middle in the age of the internet. It's so obvious in media, it's becoming obvious in universities, but be the New York Times or be acquired, but don't be the Cleveland plane dealer or be Disney or be Doug Demiro or in this world be Brooks or be Nike, right? But don't be under armor who's not a platform brand. They don't have the size and scale and everything that accrues to a Nike, but they're trying to run a mini Nike playbook. And I need to run a completely different playbook. Yeah. Totally agree. So Nike is just leaning into this in a big way. They're now the official uniform supplier of the MLB, the NFL and the NBA. And they're throwing huge dollars. Like, the NFL deal alone is something like a $200 million a year deal. And David, you were telling me, Nike doesn't even get to sell the jerseys to customers. It's literally just to get the swish on the game day jerseys. This is absolutely fascinating and blew my mind when I talk to a few people in the industry about this. So yes, the official jerseys, let's take the NBA, for example, Nike replaced Adidas a few years back as the official jerseemaker of the NBA. When most NBA jerseys are sold to buyers who pay money for them, AKA fans, not the players. Most of those are replica jerseys, which I'd heard that term before. I never thought about what it meant. Most of those are made by fanatics, which has run an incredibly interesting playbook in the sports world and the sports marketing world over the past few years. They are replicas made and sold by fanatics in conjunction with the teams of the jerseys that the players wear. Nike pays to make the jerseys that the players wear. It is a billboard. It is a sponsorship. That is what they are paying for. But that's probably not what you're going to buy. You're going to buy a replica from the team store that is made by fanatics that has the Nike swish on it, which in many ways that's part of why Nike is willing to pay to sponsor the NBA is because the replica jerseys get more swishes out there in the world, even if it's not on things that they sell. It's a billboard, even if it's not on things that they make. Right. That's wild. It's totally wild. You would think the value chain would flow the other way where you would make money from the jerseys sold because you are an apparel company. But instead, you're paying to put your swish on jerseys made by other people. One final thought on this athletic shoe market being a $130 billion market. I mean, Nike totally participated in a world change and helped to change the world that we all wear sneakers all day. What an insane market to address that there are 14 billion feet in the world and we all wear out the shoes. It's just a thing we need to just keep replacing. What a fantastic thing to get to sell. It really is surprising to me that they haven't quite figured out price discrimination with the exception of some of these very specialized shoes, which I'm probably not going to go buy. I'm just not a sneaker head. So I'm not going to go buy any this limited edition color. This, that, the other thing or something. I have to keep in a closet in a bag. It's not my bag. But so if you like exempt away that part of the market, there's probably some shoes that I should and would pay $500 for. And yet those shoes don't seem to exist. And that's very surprising to me. Yep. Okay. So those are the numbers on the business today. You want to go playbook? Let's do it. Okay. Playbook. The first one, I know I've said it a few times on this episode. I totally want to like ingrain it in the ears of listeners where Nike will come up with the most creative clever way to win. And even if it's breaking a little bit of a rule, it's fine. The best illustration of this is breaking too. Did you watch that, David? Oh, yeah. So good. It was compelling. Unbelievably compelling. But they said, what are all the rules to competitive running? If you're going to have a pacer on a run with you, it needs to be the same pacer the whole time so that you can't cheat and like rotate in pacers. You can't wear certain types of shoes that have ill-defined rules. And so Nike stages this event with their shoes that provably make you 4% faster than you've ever been before. And they drive a Tesla with a laser and a whole bunch of pacers around this guy. And they're like, you know what? We're going to make this big media spectacle out of this guy setting the world record and breaking the two-hour marathon time. And like, he came close and it was an unbelievably entertaining event to watch. And what they said was, we don't care if this is legal or not in competition. We're just doing a stunt. You know, and you guys can debate afterwards if this actually said the world record for the marathon time or not. And I just thought it was like, there's nothing more perfectly Nike than saying like, well, those rules are like quite cute. But Nike is a growth company. That's the ultimate non-sequator. I hope that becomes a mean. It's actually better if you open it on mobile because the sub headline goes away. So it's literally just a black and white picture of Serena Williams. It says Nike Inc is a growth company. The first time I opened it on my phone, I was like, that is a Okay. All right. I'm making that pretty clear. So I don't know. I think you sort of see some of that in the best DNA of Nike and in the crappy DNA of Nike, like the Oregon project stuff. So it's important to understand that, to understand the company. Hey, Ben, break the rules, fight the law. That's right. Another big one is the things that are your very strength can go too far and become your weakness. And they totally pioneered outsource manufacturing in Asia, which is also why they got hit so hard and deserved to get hit so hard when that became an issue. I always think everyone should always be aware in your business that your greatest strength is also your greatest weakness and you just have to factor it in. You just have to know it was weird to me how wildly caught off guard they were by like, oh, well, we're not a shoe company. Come on. Can't say that. Yeah. On the note of not a shoe company, there's a great analogy here to TSMC. And in fact, there's a great analogy here to the Nvidia and Qualcomms of the world and Nike. Nike is a fabulous shoe company. Yes. Yes. I think that is ultimately the answer to is Nike a shoe company. Sure. This is our semiconductor episode this season. They're a fabulous shoe company. Yes. And unlike TSMC, semiconductor manufacturing is wildly differentiated shoe manufacturing. There's like two or three really big ones that Nike works with. They're unbelievably prescriptive. They source all the materials. They do lots of audits, stuff like that. But it runs quite differently than their apparel business, which has like thousands of manufacturers that they work with, which are all custom for all the different fabrics and stuff that they need to make. And so in some ways, it's like the fabulous semiconductor industry. But unlike semiconductors, the manufacturing isn't as CapEx intensive to start. And there's not as much process power in it. So you actually do have this like highly fragmented, foundry equivalent, like manufacturing ecosystem of people who can make your stuff. To the scale economy's power question, to the extent in footwear that there are limited numbers of factory operators that are the big ones that are fully audited that you want to work with. Being the scale player that can dominate the capacity in those factories is a huge advantage. That's exactly right. What we're on manufacturing is sort of a funny note. Nike manufacturers zero shoes, but they manufacture 100% of the nitrogen-filled little airbags. They do it in Oregon, because that's trade secret. And then they ship those over to their Asian manufacturing facilities to put them in the shoes. Do they do that with any of the other technology, like flying it or react? I don't know. I don't think so on flying it. I don't know if you're going to make the flying it in the US. You may as well assemble it. Yeah, I assume not. So I also think it's one of these interesting things where like Nike gets hit. Basically, all shoes are made the same way. There's some companies that like to claim credit for, oh my gosh, this one's made the US. Well, I like part of it's assembled in the US, but basically everyone, you know, either makes the whole shoe or the upper outside the US. And I think new balance is a US brand, but like it's not, to my understanding, it's not all made here. It's like designed by Apple in California. Right. The other huge theme that I think is important to take away here is for the first 15 years of Nike, it was a story of leverage every single point along the way up until 1981. They took the highest leveraged route they possibly could. The whole thing was betting the farm on top of betting the farm. And we are telling Nike because it is the survivor ship by a story. And there are many that would have failed along the way because at any given point, they would have gotten slightly ahead of their skis and the 100% debt to assets ratio would have caught up with them and then poof they go out of business. And Phil Knight even put up he and Penny's house to guarantee a loan. If it came down, it all would have come down. There's no slack in the system at all. And even continued through to the Jordan story, right? Nobody else was going to do that deal. Yep. Exactly. So Phil Knight basically never took on any equity investors. And so he took no delusion. He and his management team and Bill Bowerman owned 56% at IPO him owning 46% because he just kept betting the farm all on debt and basically had no buffer at all. So what that means is on IPO day, he was worth 178 million. And today he's worth about 40 billion. When you own 46% of your company at IPO and it goes on to become a top 50 company in the world, that is how you become the 25th richest person in the world. He shot the moon and he kept ownership the whole way. Yep. Okay. So we talked a lot about this brand halo idea. I want to put a specific fine point on what the strategy is they create pinnacle products for athletes. I think oftentimes without even thinking about how does this translate to something the ordinary person could buy or wear. The athletes find their way to it either through a brand deal nowadays or in the early days, you know, through their local running shop who has something cool and exclusive. You build brand with that niche athletic community by being obsessed with that particular athlete's journey and designing products for them and customizing experiences for them. That brand then seeps out into the broader consciousness either through paid media or through just organic word of mouth that Nike stands with athletes. They're obsessed with it. They make the experience of being an athlete the best thing possible. And then they extend and when I say they extend they figure out what products that need to make that fit into the universe of the consumer psyche of how could I be like that dream that I'm watching how can I participate in this feat of athleticism and show that this is like me too. And the hardest thing is figuring out how to extend to that audience and make products for them to buy without compromising that step one that belief that you make pinnacle products. And what Nike has been able to do and thread that needle and figure out how to make the $15 t shirt that you get at dick sporting goods with the swoosh on it. And also convinced me that the very best shoes to run in is the, you know, Nike vapor fly next percent, whatever, whatever. Again, just like our LVMH episode, it's amazing that they can make a little wallet clutch for a credit card and an ID and a $200,000 handbag. Yep. All the thing I would add to that is just reiterate what kind of has hit me through doing the research in this episode is that athletes are Netflix shows. Yeah, I didn't think of that until we were actually recording here. And these days, especially in the beginning, it was athletes are billboards and Netflix shows in that, you know, on sports center or whatever. Like you're going to see the swoosh now with social media and the modern world. It literally is a Netflix show. People are following you name it Patrick. I'm home serena Williams. They have a following who are following their lives like a reality TV show. You want to hear an insane quote that dates all the way back to 1983. Rob Straser wrote this in an internal memo. Individual athletes, even more than teams will be the heroes. Symbols more and more of what real people can't do anymore risk and win. Yes. I see your Rob Straser quote and I will one up you a Phil night quote. Give it to me. This is actually about Phil night and just do it around the time Michael Jordan became a Nike guy. Phil night had finally begun to apply in full measure his hunch that if the general public could be helped to imagine great athletes as he imagined them as having implications of the very best that the human spirit had to offer then those athletes would become like the heroes of old the heroes in books and people would come to those heroes and listen to what they had to say. Yes. I love it. Side with the athletes sell the dream people will buy products. Yes. Interestingly enough to in this Rob Straser quote where he says individual athletes even more than the teams this was the big takeaway from our NBA episode that is about marketing the athletes not marketing the teams now what's really interesting since we did the NFL episode earlier this year after doing the NBA episode. I've really changed my thought on this the NFL is a better business as a league than the NBA. No question in my mind but the amount of value created out of the leagues I think more value is created out of the NBA the NFL just captures way more value and this is the more valuable league but this Nike episode is totally solidified for me the value coming out of the NBA Jordan Kobe LeBron because on and on Zion Wembee Victor Wemme Maya the new phenom coming out of France that was the number one pick of the spurs he's already a Nike athlete fascinating and basketball again because it directly translates to those are the shoes that people can buy whether they buy that model or a different model they are buying those shoes they're not buying football cleats and it's the face of the person, it's not behind a helmet. It's like, they're the heroes. - Right, yeah, basketball is quite helpful in that there's a reason to buy those shoes just to wear them around. Like, you don't have to invent a new product for people to participate in the brand story like you do with football. - I mean, it's funny 'cause it's the gatorade line, not the Nike line about Michael Jordan, but like, be like Mike. If you wanna be like Mike, it's really easy. You just buy the shoes. If you wanna be like Patrick Mahomes, it's a little harder. - Right, I don't have any pads, I don't have a helmet. I have nothing in common with Patrick Mahomes. No shoes will change that. - Yep. - I have one that I've been trying to think on. And at one point in the research I wrote down, when you sell commodities, brand matters a lot. Is Nike differentiating a commodity with their brand or are they not in the commodity business? - Well, this gets to your question at the start of the episode. This is the crux of the question. I think there's two answers. The prestige models. The Jordans, the retro's, the vapor flight, what have you? The prestige $150 plus Nike models. I don't think those are commodities. I think those are products. Nike also sells a lot of $50, $60, $70 pairs of shoes. Those are probably commodities that are helped by the brand Halo. - Yeah, buy for kidding it like that does make sense. Someone told me that in many years, the monarch has been their best selling shoe, which is this crazy high margin Dad barbecue shoe that no athlete has ever worn for anything. Everyone should just Google Nike Monarchs and you're like, oh yeah, no, my parents wear that. I don't know, it's like the ultimate barbecue shoe. And that's kind of what America buys. And so they've sold enormous volumes of this thing. - I'm like one more kid away from becoming a Nike Monarch. - Ironically, it's actually caught on with Gen Z. And so there's this weird thing. Now we're like, people are wearing monarchs ironically. So the monarchs are objectively a commodity product and they're super differentiated by having the Nike brand on them. Whereas the vapor fly for the two years that it came out, the next percent thing that the Breaking Two Marathon got ran in, it was like by far the best running shoe on the market for two whole years. That is actual R&D product that differentiates itself. So Phil Knight has the final word on this. In an interview maybe eight, 10 years ago, he said, when directly asked the question, are you a product company or a marketing company? We are a marketing company. And the product is our most important marketing tool. I disagree. I think the athletes are your most important marketing tool. I think the product is a monetization method for the marketing that you do through athletes. But if you admit that, then you're saying that we don't have differentiation in our product. But I do think it's quite telling that they started distributing someone else's product. And yeah, they do lots R&D. But at the end of the day, they succeed because they have built the best brand in the world, the most amazing distribution in the world and the most tier jerking marketing that anyone ever watches. And they have a 30 year enduring brand. For 30 more years, Nike will be, I can't predict after that. But Nike will be a brand that people look up to and are inspired by. Yep, totally agree. And it's interesting, even like telling a little bit of the athlete's story along the way here too, even that story of the product is what's important. That's kind of part of the myth of the marketing of the brand with the athletes, right? You know, the Jordan 2, the Jordan 3. Like, yeah, the Jordan 2 sucked. Sure, like everything I said, probably true. I think MJ probably really believes that as do many people. On the other hand, it's also a really convenient story or the Kobe story of, oh, the Kobe's, you know, a Dita shoe sucked. Right. Sure, makes for a really good story for the soap opera that is the athlete's life that is the Netflix show that they're selling. Right, being a soap opera keeps him in the spotlight and keeps the opportunity to have more impact with sponsor eyeballs. Yep. This whole sponsor celebrity thing is both a asset if you do it well in a massive liability if you do it wrong. Nike strategy has very clearly been celebrate athletes. Adidas has had the strategy that seems to be like celebrate eyeballs where they'll sponsor anyone with attention. It's rappers, it's musicians. Oh, boy. It's some athletes, it's celebrities. It's, do we want to talk about Kanye? Well, this is quite interesting. So I think Nike was smart. I think they legitimately premeditated. Ooh, we don't want to be associated with this person. And so they drove a really hard bargain and notoriously in 2015 Kanye walked away from Nike and so they refused to give me creative control. I think Nike didn't see exactly what was coming with Kanye but I do think they realized, hmm, our entire brand is built on celebrating athletes and what we should be in business with celebrities in some way, shape and form. I mean, there's these great old stories of Rob Strasse are making sure that we be stars when we're wearing Nike's and driving around Hollywood. We're here to celebrate athletes and stand by athletes and like we would stand by Tiger Woods. We did in some really trying times in his life where a lot of people turned against him. Would we stand by Kanye? No, we don't know what to celebrate about him. And so I don't think they had too much foresight and knew exactly what was gonna happen. But I think they've clarified their strategy that their athlete focused. And for anyone who hasn't been paying attention, he blew up Adidas's year. Adidas net income has basically evaporated and gone to zero. They used to make over $2 billion a year in profit in the last four quarters on a rolling basis. They've made less than a hundred million. So two billion down to a hundred million and they claim around $500 million of this is the easy right down. They posted an actual net loss last quarter. It is a pretty disastrous situation over there and there's a full out slide in their deck where they admit we think we're better than this and we're not. Oh, I didn't realize it was that bad. It's bad. It's really bad. They're in a complete reset year. Well, I think it may be part of this. What has happened is Nike can participate in getting their billboards in these other aspects of popular culture, music being the biggest example of it without having to have rappers be sponsors because how much Nike placement is there in music? A ton. How many songs are there about Michael Jordan to this day? Or LeBron or Zion or John Moran or what have you? Yeah, there's a lot of different ways to play it and Nike seems to have played the chess board quite intelligently. Quite intelligently, yeah. All right, so here we are at the end of analysis, the bear case and the ball case. So there's a bear case that we haven't talked about which is Nike's in a weird place when Mark Parker retires. He was supposed to have a successor. The successor is out for me two reasons and a bunch of other people too. They're theoretically thin on people who could take the job. They bring in John Donoho, John was the CEO of service now, was the CEO of eBay and was the CEO of Bane. So not from the sneaker business. But was a board member? He was a board member, so he knows Nike's history from that level, but different than, I mean, Mark Parker started as a sneaker designer, very different sort of lineage coming in. He designed the Pegasus, which I think is the longest single running model with no pauses in Nike's history. I ran in a Pegasus two days ago. Oh, that's amazing. So John comes in and is sort of this external hire. I get the sense, I'm not sure he'll be a 20 year CEO. I get the sense this is sort of like figure it out time for Nike's stabilized things, get them set in a good direction and then figure out who from the bench is the right next person. I don't know how long it'll be, but it's just like a vibe that I get from reading stuff. Well, Nike's also so insular. People develop up through the company and stay there forever. Yeah. So COVID happened around the same time that he's coming in to take over. And they've sort of decided to do this big reorg where they used to have an org structure super focused on each sport. And that meant that it was people's jobs and whole team's responsibilities to track the athlete's journey through their experience playing that sport. And they provided crazy amounts of support to athletes and like, here's an example. At the last Olympics, they wanted every single sport to have the option to be wearing Nike shoes, every athlete. Well, many sports don't require shoes. And Nike said, that's fine with us. We just want to have a presence and we want to support those athletes. They did a bunch of R&D on all sorts of crazy things including like a gymnastics partial shoe for one specific gymnastics event because they're just obsessed with how do we make the athlete experience better if they end up in swooshes and people understand what we're all about. They'll want to participate in our brand story too. Well, this reorg was sort of intended to realign teams at Nike with the way that they actually interface with the outside world. So now it's men's women's and kids because you go into a Nike store on Fifth Avenue in New York and there's a floor for men's women's and kids and you go into a Dick sporting goods and there's a men's women's and kids. And so it kind of makes sense. You shouldn't send 12 people from Nike one representing every sport to go meet with the one buyer at the men's wear department of that shoe store. But Nike's an incredibly matrixed organization and so that's sort of the thing that was happening. the bear case in this is What has kind of gotten lost is an obsession and focus on these individual sports and the journeys in these sports. Let's look at the trainers, like just a little example in running. As we learned in the Brooks episode, the business for them is in the trainers. It's not the race issues. It's what you're wearing to get your three mile or your five mile in a few mornings a week and you wear those out and then you buy another pair and it's a great business. So there's some Nike running department who needs to be sort of obsessing over that journey and growing their sales and their share in not just race day shoes with this amazing vapor fly stuff, but like the trainers. But look at what's actually happening in the running market. You've got Brooks on and Hoka all becoming billion dollar revenue run rate companies in the last 18 months. Nike, fortunately, their big competitors like Adidas have just been out to lunch. But these little competitors who are all nipping at their heels are doing a great job focusing on their niches. And when you simplify an organ the way that Nike has, there's a little bit of a concern around, are they still focusing on the niches and are they still focused on serving athletes in the same way and an obsessive way that they have been in the past? - Okay, I buy that as a bear case. - So there's a lot of nuance there but I think that in the same way of that all Disney quotes, so with Disney animation goes the company, sort of like, so with running goes Nike, that's a bell weather. - Fair enough. I totally see what you're saying. I think if you were to say that the equivalent Disney animation for Nike was running at the beginning, I think it is unquestionably basketball today. - Fair. - And I don't see them slowing in basketball. - Well, I mean, that's the thing. It's kind of hard to come up with a bear case. There are all these little nitpicky, like I listen to a bunch of teagas calls and I listen to the earnings calls on quarter and like in doing my like investor diligence on this, these are the sorts of things that people are concerned about. A big one is like this potential reversal of strategy on D to C, like they reopened Macy's and they put more inventory in footlocker in the last couple quarters and that's sort of concerning 'cause the whole narrative has been we're going direct. But also, oh, we have too much inventory so we gotta blow it out and, you know, discount it through our retail channels. There's lots of questions to management about if that sort of thing is happening right now. Big slowdown in China, not just them, but all the big brands. It seems like the Chinese market is shifting to Chinese native brands or there's a lot of signs that that might happen. And so, you know, the China market is a huge, important set of consumers to Nike. So I think them figuring out, especially how their social justice stance is fit in with the CCP controlled China. That's a huge open question and are they going to be able to address that biggest market in the world for feet or not? You know, at scale is sort of the question. Yep, makes sense. Honestly, that's the best I got for bear case. Let me add on one more. I don't think this is really a bear case, but if you're viewing this through the lens of should I buy the stock, not investment advice, but, you know, versus other companies that could put my money into, as incredible as this company is, operations, the power, the scale economies, the brand, I think the durability, it's still not a software gross margin business. Nor is it ever going to be. I love that our complaint is always, it's not a SaaS company. Well, it's a really good business model. I mean, look, if you could put all your dollars, you could put it into SaaS companies, you could put it into Nike. Right. I do think Nike has incredible durability. Yeah, I mean, that's the bowl case. These scale economies are super real. And they're in pole position to just keep spending and keep investing in building this incredibly durable brand. And like products will come and go. There will be five-year stints where they have the most amazing grunting shoes that everyone needs to marathon in. And there'll be years where they don't. But the Nike brand and their media strategy and their brand voice and the way that they deploy into all these local markets and tweak the messaging to be local appropriate in every corner of the world and manufacture at scale. Like it's just, the Nike brand means something to billions of people. And Nike knows how to make it keep meeting something to them. Yep, like I said earlier, there are a lot of swoosh tattoos on bodies around this planet. That is a bowl case right there. Yep. And the world of globalization and the world of the internet returns to scale are a big deal and they're in the scale position. And I'm sure both hardcore basketball fans and sneaker heads would nitpick with this statement. But to me, Nike basketball and the sneaker head culture is the core of the driving force, you know, the pinnacle of the halo, the Jordan brand. And I just don't see, like it feels like as strong as it's ever been to me. Yeah, completely agree. I mean, you listen to these Tegas calls with Adidas people and they're like, our issue is how to figure out how to make the brand cool again. And that does not show up in any way, shape or form in the Nike interviews. Yeah, totally. All right, well, that closes out Baron Ball. I have some fun trivia for you, David. Love it. So I saw you tweet something about some person in this episode being related to a person in a previous episode. I think Daniela commented on it. And I was trying to figure out what you had just found. And I'm wondering if this is it. So I'm gonna read from Wikipedia. Nicheau UI was involved in a corruption scandal in 1979 after it passed on a $500 million yen bribe from McDonald Douglas to the director of the Japanese Defense Agency in an attempt to influence the sale of the F4 Phantom aircraft to the Japan Air Self-Defense Force. The scandal was uncovered only three years after a similar scandal involving Lockheed conspiring to bribe Prime Minister Tanaka. For anyone who didn't listen to our Lockheed episode, we talked about this bribe bringing down the Prime Minister of Japan. And oh my God, it happened through Nicheau. Yeah, amazing. I did find that. And that is an amazing connection. And the deep cut is great for acquired lore. But that is not what I tweeted about. My tweet was actually about something slightly different, which was people that we come across in the acquired universe, minor characters who go on to be major characters and other stories. And it was actually about Don Katz and Audible. Oh, interesting. Yeah, that's a good one too. Which I love these wild career changes where like you go from being a journalist and an author to starting a technology company. Yeah, it's pretty cool. All right, quick carve out. I think you should go listen to Mark Andreessen on Lex Friedman and then you should listen to him again on Ben Thompson in that order. He's been on a little bit of a media tour since he did, it's the Andreessen Horowitz strategy. It's like everything we talked about on the episode with them and how they're the most media savvy in the game in part because of working with Margie there. But like, oh my God, he's so smart. And it's just a privilege to get to listen to him talk every once in a while. And it's fun that he's out talking right now because his perspective on AI is also, yes, he's talking his book. And also, all of his arguments are extremely compelling. He's very smart, so I recommend you listen to it. Well, it's like LeBron selling shoes. You know that he's selling shoes. But my God, he's amazing. Right, it's like, oh, listen to the venture capitalist who has 30 billion under management where a lot of it is like betting on the future that AI is going to be this big thing that's good for the world. Talk about how AI is good for the world. Yes, I can acknowledge that and listen to him and then be like, and I completely agree with almost everything you're saying. Great, I've listened to the Ben Thompson in there for you but not the Lex one yet. So I'll have to do that. I am breathing a huge sigh of relief over here 'cause I was more than ever certain that we were gonna have the same carve out today. Can you guess what mine is? No. Maybe not 'cause we've been so deep in Nike research to not pay attention to current events. Mine is Speak Now, Taylor's version, which just came out. And I feel like Speak Now, at least for me in my Taylor Swift experience, is like the forgotten album. Like I just never think about it. Totally. And then when it came out and I was like, oh wow, well, hey, I was surprised that she's even continuing to do the re-releases. I thought so. I was like, she doesn't need to do this anymore. She's got the leverage. Yeah, the ultimate power move would be to stop. So Pleasant Surprise that it came out and also Pleasant Surprise to rediscover Speak Now. Like there are some bangers on there. (laughs) Great album. It's so funny listening to her now. How old is Taylor now? She's exactly my age, 34. Well, she's 33, she'll be 34. And to hear her singing songs from when she was 21, it's just such a fun juxtaposition. Yeah, that's cool. I gotta listen to it. I literally haven't done anything other than read about Nike. So. Yeah. It's good. There's some great songs on there. I'll enter my three-day window right after we finish recording where I can pay attention to other things again before just starting research for the next one. Yeah. Speaking of, we should pick a topic. There's like a thousand I want to do. So after this all, give me a call and we can talk about it. With that, you can get notified new feature that we just launched of all new episodes launching. Go to acquire.fm/email and we will include some fun Easter eggs in there in addition to just telling you the episodes live. But that's the way to get on the email list. Many of you are already on that. Thank you for doing that. It is awesome to be all I have that direct connection with you and not rely on a tool. Twitter algorithm or anything, letting you know that we're live. Anything subject to change. Yes, become an LP acquired.fm/LP. ACQ-2 is in any podcast player. Dave and I have a couple of fun interviews queued up for that. So ACQ-2 should have some good stuff coming soon. And join the Slack acquired.fm/slack. With that listeners, thank you for going on this blue ribbon journey with us. And we'll see you next time in Dimension 7. Wow, you are bringing a new energy to these out turns. I like it. It came to me in a fever dream. Wow, that is some black air forces energy. Yep. All right, later. We'll see you next time. Who got the truth? Is it you? Is it you? Is it you? Who got the truth now? [MUSIC PLAYING]