Next-Gen Carving a Path into Sustainability and Renewal in Family Business

[MUSIC] You are listening to the InSair and Family Business Podcast. We are talking to family business leaders, professional, executives, and the next generation to help inspire the leaders of tomorrow. [MUSIC] Listen to authentic family business stories and learn about the journeys and fostering long term success, legacy, and impact across generations. The podcast will explore perspectives and insights and feature some of the best global practices in family business leadership. I'm your editor and host, Martin Roel. [MUSIC] We are celebrating International Women's Day for the month of March and had dedicated a series of podcasts featuring female leaders who are making an impact in family business. We bring this series in collaboration with AVS Advices. Today's episode will focus on next year carving a path into sustainability and renewal in family business. My guest today is Lara Butter. She is a 13-generation of the family enterprise butter eco-packaging, which was founded in Italy by her grandmother in 1947. For three generations, the company has been a major player in the packaging industry. The company has a rich history and legacy and offers a wide range of corrugated cardboard and similar products. The 13th generation is now represented by Lara and her brother Lara. Welcome to the podcast. Thank you, Martin. It's a pleasure to be here. It's great to host you. You have worked in the healthcare company, Ross and you spent 10 years abroad in different countries. How did your corporate career influence the leader you have become today? I believe that learning from the best is always a good option. So knowing and getting experience from different companies, especially if they're mood-linationals, they're superstructured and knowing how their processes work, how they do things, how they innovate, if they innovate. And the perks and their limitations actually gave me a good insight as to how I wanted to lead my own company. And what I liked and disliked about working in a different context, so you have a benchmark and having a benchmark is always good to understand and improve on what you've seen outside. So it's something that I didn't realize at the time how much I learned from it, but I am sure that it's given me a different perspective and a good baggage of experience that I can use even though I don't realize I'm using it. It just comes to a time when you don't realize what you're gaining as your career takes on. You then joined the Bonta Eco-Pageting. You went back to the family business. What made you decide to join the family business? Right, I never actually decided to join the family business. It wasn't in the cards, so I took a completely different route. I went into Pharma, my career was in Pharma. I didn't think I would ever look back. But then in between jobs, after 10 years abroad, I decided to come back to Italy. And that's when I said, "Okay, I'll give it a go because dad wanted to know what I wanted to do when I grew older." I never actually said that I don't want to get into the family business, but never said the opposite either. I thought it was a good time to get in and actually make an informed decision. In my head, that informed decision would have been, "No, I want to continue my career in Pharma and be multinational companies." However, little did I know that I would fall in love with the whole thing, with the family business, with the smell of paper, with the legacy I found, and with realizing that I could actually make an impact. So, anything I wanted to do to improve things actually could happen. And you could see the outcomes straight away, something that I probably missed a lot in multinational companies. I realized that it's much harder to make things happen because there's big structure, lots of hierarchy. And it needs to go through various procedures and approvals before things get changed and things get improved. You're only trying to improve things. Yet, it seems so difficult. When I got into the family business, I actually realized that because I had fresh eyes, they were unbiased. I realized that there were things that I think could have been improved in the processes. And I asked my brother who was just beside me, I was like, "Why do we do things this way? Why don't we do them another way?" That would be more efficient. And I was astonished because he just turned around and said, "Well, just do it." And that was something that I didn't know could happen. And I didn't realize how easy it would have been to make things happen. So, I think the idea of being able to have an impact and it can be good or bad, by mind you. But that's something that I enjoyed and gave me the challenge to stay and never look back really. Was there any trigger that made you join? Because you had a good corporate career. You never know what was waiting on the other side, but any trigger that led you to take that decision somehow? I think it just fell in love with it. So, I never looked back. There's nothing that really triggered me. But the more you stay, the more I enjoyed it and the less I wanted to find a different job. So, it kind of stayed there. It's just having. It's like having two different lives. And it's just the previous life. That's what I was doing. Absolutely. Today it seemed so far. Did you feel any pressure or expectations from your father or your family to join? You mentioned your brother before. Was there any expectations? Well, my dad is from the 1940s. So, the phenomenon role of women at the time was being a wife and a mother above anything else. So, I didn't have any expectation of becoming a career woman and taking on the role, a responsibility role within the company. But maybe because of that, I had the willingness to prove people wrong. So, I can actually do it and I can do it well. And that gave me probably the challenge I needed to try and do the best with. with what I had and exceed expectations in a way. So, putting that pressure on yourself is probably the best of motivation you can have in life, absolutely. It's got bad points and good points. So, it's bad because it's not fair in a way that you're not expected. And you don't have the same pressure that another gender may have. But then again, had things been different and was there no gender stereotype? Would I've had the same passion and willingness to succeed and competition within me? I don't know. So, I think in the end, I see the positive aspects of having that. I want to briefly touch on the family dynamics. Your father is the president and he's involved in the board. Your brother heads the commercial business and you lead the sustainable packaging division. How's your working relationship? I think it grew with time. So, initially, as I said, we had to find our own spaces because I came in later on. Not knowing what my role would have become. But I think the main point that you need to try and reach is trying to have separate responsibilities so that you don't have conflicts. Or you avoid conflicts mostly. I think these advantages could be having a lot of confidence. So, the role you have at home is taken inside the business and it's not fruitful because you need to separate the two roles but it's not easy. And the advantage of having a family in the company means having people you trust wholeheartedly. And no one else from outside the family would actually be so trustworthy to anyone's eyes. And that, I think, is something that gives you support. You know that you can lean on each other and even if you have conflicts, family love comes first. And you'll find the resolution eventually. And it'll never become mean or nasty because family comes first. And that's the main objective at any point in time. But yeah, you do have conflicts and you need to learn how to separate the two roles. So in order to maybe mitigate against those conflicts and fallouts and disagreements, have you put in place any mechanisms to kind of manage that relationship between you? Not structurally, but we have regular meetings whereby we update each other and we can openly discuss things and find a solution. The fact that there's three of us and that is kind of with us, I'm sure it helps because he understands both points of views and can kind of balance each other's competences, each other's points of view and make us find the right solution at every step of the way. Has anything surprised you during your journey with a family business? I mean, was it love at first sight? Well, I was surprised I fell in love with it, certainly. I had no idea I was expecting to just try it and say, no, this is not for me. Thank you very much. I go back to the big multinational company and continue my career. So surely I was surprised by my own decision and by liking the fact that it was a small medium sized firm. I think from externally you have a negative concept of a small medium sized firm, the fact that it's small, the fact that there's not much competition as in the big multinational companies to succeed and to go on into the career ladder. But actually maybe because it's more challenging, you want to make sure that you can and you do your best to ensure it thrives. You really want to ensure that the efforts that your grandma put in, that your dad put in can actually continue. And I don't know if you can describe that, but it's something that you feel inside. My dad was always at work. So the amount of effort he put into this company for us children to lead a comfortable life is today I see it as amazing at the time it was normal, well it felt normal, but he never had holidays, he was the first one in, the last one out, we can see what work. He really felt the responsibility. And today I understand it because now I have children of my own and you have an objective, you know, you want things to go well because there's a new generation and your own family and that's dependent on it. Do you then feel any pressure to carry on the entrepreneurial flame and being the mixed in together with your brother, your father still in the company and you talked about your grandmother and all that? Do you feel any pressure to any type of burden to be now the generation that's going to lead the company forward into the future? Well, I am aware that the third generation by statistics is the most at risk. So I do feel that pressure and have felt that because everybody's told me, so are you going to destroy the company? I was like, I hope not. So I'm trying hard to go against statistics. So yeah, that pressure is on. It's part of working in a business. You've got risks, you've got opportunities, you have to, you know, that's my job is to try and make the most of it. So you came back as a next year and then of course you have to find a role in the company, your brother was all already in the company. You early on took an interest and the lead on sustainability and innovation at the family company. What motivated and led you into that strategic journey? I know you have done quite a lot in this area. Yes, but it didn't start off that way. So when I started, I covered many roles. Whatever help was needed, I went and it was kind of training on the job. So I did from admin to accountancy. I went in logistics when it needed. I was looking at production, commercial. So before I got into sustainability, I actually had to find my space, not only my space, but where my competences were best used. I thought that I had to improve the company somehow and use my competences to do that. And finding the right space was in a way something that I had to do to ensure that the role I had and how it affected other family members within the company wouldn't have going to contrast and find my own niche where I could actually thrive. And one of the things that I felt was my responsibility was to try and improve things. So business development. We've always done corrugated cardboard packaging. We had done it for over 60 years at the time. What could we do more? So what could I bring to the company? And that was going, but it needed improvement. It needed growing. So how can we grow more? Boxes are a commodity. So that's when I started to become curious trying to find out, to research, what does the market of packaging, where is it going, what are the consumers going to want in the next future? You work with frugal innovation and other methods. Can you explain more about that and how it provides a competitive edge for your company? Oh, absolutely. Frugal innovation is a concept that I came across in maybe 2016 and I absolutely adored. As I said, we're a small, medium sized company and usually small companies tend to think that innovation is for bigger corporations because innovation in itself has this idea that needs lots of money. It needs a division all by itself. It's something that big companies do. In actual fact, because Italy is made 99% of small to medium sized businesses, we can't leave it to the big companies. We have to be doing innovation and making sure that our companies will be ready for tomorrow's future. And with frugal innovation is a concept that comes from developing countries and they still do innovation, but they don't have the same technology, the same infrastructure, the money, but they still do innovation. One of the biggest innovations that stuck to mind is making a fridge out of clay. No electricity, but yet they manage to make a fridge. And why? Because they had a need. They understood that there was a need to make a fridge. We have to understand the small medium sized businesses that there is a need to innovate. We cannot do things the same and expect the outcomes to be different. We know the market is changing and nowadays it's changing even more rapidly than it was 20 years ago and we need to be ready. So the concept that you need to innovate has to be there and I see a parallelism between developing countries having to use frugal innovation to survive in certain parts of the world and small to medium sized businesses to survive within the market and with this globalized market which gets things even harder. Was that a bit of a lonely journey, trial and error and you went into e-commerce and then saw the boom you were here with sustainability but how would you characterize that journey getting to the point where you are today? Yes, lonely is definitely a world I would use. Not just because of the path I took and the journey to get to where I am today. The role in the company is quite lonely because it's you in the end who have to take decisions. Okay, in my case there's a family behind so we always kind of lean on each other but it's not the same. So there's the loneliness in tackling this kind of role whereby I found a way to make it less lonely by using the entrepreneurial associations. So finding like-minded individuals who encounter the same issues, who can actually give you some insight, show you the way in some instances and you learn from each other. So finding people who have that same passion, you kind of rub off each other and you can talk shop constantly and it's not bad, it's not looked and frowned upon. So that's also something that I enjoy and gives me pleasure. You also when we prepared for the podcast you told me you were involved with one of the Italian industry associations, so focusing on entrepreneurship and STEM and women and other matters. Could you tell us a little more about that? Yes, so I truly believe in collaborating and networking with like-minded individuals where entrepreneurial associations come in but entrepreneurial associations are also where you discuss matters of the sector. So I believe that we need to voice our concerns for the sector, for the market, for Italy because then there's a part of lobbying and making sure that people who do make decisions for us are aware of the issues that we are facing as companies within this entrepreneurial system. 99% of companies within Italy are small to be emphasized businesses and we need to voice our concerns to make things. happen. But yeah, gender equality is something I believe in and it's something that's changed in the past 20 years. It's surely more people are more aware today, but I still think there's so much work to do in order to obtain proper gender equality. So what I do is try and you know, act as role model for the younger generation, try and tell the younger generation where the opportunities in career lie because schools today are not telling them, are not giving them the statistics and we know we're in the market, we do know what roles are missing and where you can actually make a career today. I try and push the information towards schools and the younger generation and then female empowerment. I do key notes speeches for companies and try and you know, make people aware. I think awareness is one of the big obstacles that make people then influence their own kids. So if the older generations are aware, they probably make things differently and do things differently, educate differently their own siblings. So hopefully that works. And then I try and be connected to startups. So I help an advisor for female startups. I am in the panel for judging impact startups as well. So the idea is being in contact. So what I get is young people really passionate about what they do. They're into the business. They they want they're really competitive. They really want to achieve things and if I can help in any way it's something that gives me great pleasure. So I find it both rewarding but I know it's some I'm somehow helping and making an impact to our own territory, to our own entrepreneurial system. So I believe it's one of my responsibilities. Lara, you're also a professor in sustainability and university. Tell us a little more about that. Yes, this is kind of fresh. I was asked to become professor in sustainability and we only started sustainability expertise eight years ago but obviously we managed to make an impact and the the expertise is recognized outside of our company and that definitely makes us proud as a business but also personally. Plus it's a new challenge trying to learn from the next generation of consumers is something I enjoy as well as the challenge of doing it in a different context which is academically finding a new role that goes on top of everything else that we do in sustainability. What challenges and opportunities have you encountered as a woman in a leadership position? Did you have to fight any biases or stereotypes during your career or even in the family business? The answer is yes absolutely but I'd rather not focus on the problems I've had to encounter but what the positive came out of it. So for sure I've had issues. I've had to sit down through male communities talking about things that weren't business related and had nothing to do with business and judge females for something that had nothing to do with business many and many but that only gave me more willingness to prove people wrong. So in a way I kind of become numb to a few of the things that I dislike about gender inequalities and unfairness there is in this aspect but then again would have been so willing and so determined to succeed had I not had these challenges. What advice would you then have for women aspiring to leadership roles? So yes work hard no one owes you anything so the only way you can achieve things is by proving yourself and there is nothing that you can do by working hard that can go against you. So if numbers and qualitatively your work is perfect no one can actually say anything against it. Of course with time you learn that there are ways of approaching people there are ways of you shouldn't be doing because of politics but that's company politics is both men and women have that challenge within big multinational companies especially you need to know how to treat people how to work in team how to express your frustrations in a polite manner but that is something that you learn whereas doing putting the hard work in and making sure that your work is always top notch no one can go against that so I'm a sustainer of hard work first of all and then you can think of anything else. So if you want to do it you can do it. Yes that's for sure but you need to put the work in. You have two kids Lara what are you trying to pass on to them? Will you give them the same freedom to decide as you had you told me that your father didn't put any pressure on you you stayed abroad for several years? What are you trying to pass on to them? Will you give them the same freedom? I certainly try and involve them in what I do so the backstage of what maybe they see they see a newspaper article I seem to be in their eyes the most famous person ever and I try and show them the backstage of everything I do and the concerns I have the anxiousness I may have so I make them feel the passion I put into it the hard work they see that I put into it and the fact that sometimes you fail and you're not happy about it so there's not just what you see and what is the successful is what usually gets told and seen outside but there's a lot of what happens inside that I try and involve them with. Is it your dream that they may one day join the family business? Well I wouldn't mind working with them I think it would be fun but that shouldn't influence them anyway. You seem to have that personality with a trial and error and carving out a niche and proving yourself and all of that how do you deal with the change? Today I thrive in it and I am aware that it is a necessary process for continuous improvement and I'm also aware that there is possible failure when implementing change but I also know that if you don't fail and you don't try you'll never have a different outcome. Some someone more intelligent than me once said if you continue to do things let's say where you can't expect a different outcome so we need to change that's a need that I am aware we have to look out for so change meaning innovation but changing perspective so even if you fail you've changed perspective and seeing things with fresh eyes with a new perspective will make you see how better to do things so it's even if it's a step sideways a step backwards it actually will help you to make the step forward eventually so I firmly believe in that and I think experience has showed me that even though you may feel it actually gives you a competitive advantage and again in sustainable packaging you don't straight of the way find the next big thing but you need to try to make sure how can they improve it from now. I can certainly feel the passion about what you do and the journey that you're on. What do you really enjoy about your current role? The diversity within it. There are no two days that are the same so I get involved in from you know building works to production to commercial side and it's very exciting things are moving and you always make sure in my role that things are moving and there's open opportunities to do things differently in the future. Sometimes it gets too much because you can't do everything but I've also learned that the more things you have to do the more you have time for them because you get organized better and you get more efficient because you have that determination of reaching the end and implementing things and making sure they work. So that's certainly something I enjoy. I enjoy having the freedom to decide what the next business opportunity is going to be and the freedom to fail even though I hate going to fail. getting things wrong. So I do as much as I can to ensure that there is a scientific base to what I do. But when discussing with my dad, for example, he's like, "Coaches me to accept the fact that you'll never have everything under control." And sometimes you really have to listen to your gut feeling and go with it because you'll never be sure that an investment will have the return of investment that you had planned. And at some point, if you don't accept that there is a risk that you cannot control, you'll never do anything because you're waiting for things to be perfect and to be certain. And you can't do that. And at some point, you have to trust yourself and trust your gut and trust your business acumen, really, because today I've been in the business for quite a while and maybe my gut feeling is not the same gut feeling that a 20-year-old would have. So trust yourself a little bit more. Today, we have covered a lot of exciting stuff. What did you have shared with us, Lara? We talked about coming back from the corporate career ladder. We talked about finding your role, trial and error, getting into innovation, sustainability, STEM, women and leadership, and maybe the future of the next generation coming in. You have done so much. What a sharing, what a journey that you have provided here today. It was really inspiring to listen to your story and to learn from you. Thanks very much for sharing and for joining us. Thank you, Martin. And we won't stop here. I know it's been fantastic. Thank you.