86: @Newman_Kara

Hey everyone, welcome to Eatering Social. My name is Courtney Sandora and throughout this podcast series you'll be hearing from myself and the Go Social team. Go Social is a PR and social media marketing firm with offices in Denver, Colorado and Louisville, Kentucky. We'll be discussing social media trends and influencer best practices in the food and beverage landscape. If you have any questions and want to reach out you can find us on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram at TheGoSocial or you can visit our website at goforthbesocial.com. We're joined today with Cara Newman who is not only a journalist covering spirits and a variety of topics but also an author. And I think I saw Cara, you were just nominated for a Tales Award, weren't you? Yeah, I just found that out about an hour ago, so thanks. Congratulations. Thank you. Well, I guess just to kind of start up at the beginning, can you talk a little bit about how you got into the world of writing? Yeah, sure, I'm a career journalist, I've always been a writer, I went to journalism school and went straight from there to writing about financial topics. I was writing about stocks and bonds and commodities and that became kind of a long route into writing about food and eventually drink. So I've always been a writer but what I've written about has changed over time. Do you find spirits to be more exciting than the financial side? It's different, I mean at the time I thought it was very exciting but I think that writing about spirits and cocktails in the bar world really suits me a lot more right now. I'm enjoying it a lot more, it's a lot more relaxed, a lot more enjoyable and these days it's a whole lot more interesting to me than financial topics. I actually was a journalism major as well, I went to Indiana University but how have you seen the field of journalism change since you start? Oh, it has changed completely, I mean in every way imaginable. When I started, I thought it was all going to be about print, I really set my sights on magazines and I still love magazines and these physical printed objects but over time it's changed so tremendously, I mean it's not just that everything is digital now. Digital has taken priority over print, print has become this secondary, sometimes luxury item where online and digital really has become central and core and if you're not online it's like you're not even there and at the same time video has become so much more important. Social media has changed everything when it comes to finding stories, marketing stories, sometimes it is the story, it's incredible, everything has changed and now I'm really looking at things like artificial intelligence and who knows what's coming down the road. Have you been pushed to actually take video as a journalist now? From time to time, it's not my forte, I've tried it and I don't do TikTok, that's also not my forte and it doesn't feel natural to me although I do consume it from time to time. I wish I felt a little more comfortable with video, I mean that really seems to be in demand and I think the whole visual aspect is interesting and it's something I eventually maybe would like to become better at but I'm really more about the text than the visuals. Yeah, I mean it's interesting what you're saying about print because I know back, you know, doing PR I've had clients that back in the day they said like well if it was only on online it didn't count, like if it wasn't in print they're like it doesn't even count and now that flip is just amazing. I know so much of that too is going into the whole world of like e-com and affiliate marketing, have you run into that? Yeah, affiliate links definitely, yeah, it matters, I mean if I recommend a product on wine enthusiasts a lot of the time there will be an affiliate link to the product and wine enthusiasts generates revenue I assume through that and I don't select the link but it all kind of goes hand in hand. Yeah, it's really interesting to see. So what you mentioned wine enthusiasts, I know that you do focus a lot on spirits for them. What got you into the world of beverage alcohol? It's interesting because I first started writing about food history just as a hobby and then I thought I was going to write about food and that was really where I started and as a freelancer while I still had my gig writing about the financial world I did a couple of small articles for Chili Pepper magazine which is a real magazine and we focused on things like salsa competitions and ranking the best hot sauces and things like that and then one day my editor said to me we need a column about cocktails, can you write it and I said column about cocktails, I have no clue but yeah, sure, no problem, fake it till you make it and it turned out to be just the right place at the right time, the entire spirits and craft spirits and cocktail renaissance was really just starting to open up then and it turned out to be a really great place to be both because it wasn't as saturated as the broad food world but also because it was just so new and exciting and there were people doing all these really cool things and there were all these great stories and great products to chase down and it turned out to be a really great decision for me. Yeah, that's wonderful, you know, as the spirits world has changed we're definitely seeing more like no low proof spirits as I'm sure you are, are you interested in that world of mocktails or do you have any thoughts about that? I enjoy them, I consume them from time to time, I'm glad that they exist and I think that there's a lot to be said about beverages as a whole, that it's not only booze, it's not something I'm particularly interested in covering but I am finding that all of my editors want me to include a reference to, you know, zero proof options because more and more people want them. Definitely, yeah, I don't even think, I keep hearing like people are like, oh, mocktails is a dirty word, like it's so outdated so I shouldn't even say mocktail but, but yeah. It's the names that people recognize so why not, it's a real word so people recognize what it is right off the bat. Do you have like a favorite spirits category that you like to write about? I like gin and I like gin cocktails, though if I have my druthers that's probably where I gravitate first, I also find whiskeys an incredibly interesting and broad field, it just includes so many different types, you know, everything from Scotch to American single malt to Japanese whisky and I'm also very much interested in what's going on in the agave spirits world, also up and coming, lots of new and different spirits, not only tequila, not only mezcal, I've just been spending a little time in Tucson recently where I learned a bit more about agave spirits made in America and non-traditional agave spirits that are made in Mexico, there's just so much, it kind of blew my mind. Yeah, that is such a hot category right now. And you also wrote a book, correct, do you want to share a little bit about your book, that experience? I've written seven cocktail books and a nonfiction book, yeah, yeah, I mean, it's, it's funny, right now I'm not working on a book and it's the, well I should take a step back, I'm working on a book idea, I'm always working on a book idea, but it's right now is the first time I'm not actually working on a book in a long time and it's, it's kind of free and it feels kind of weird, but I've had a good run working on cocktail collections. There's a new book that came out from Nicola Nice recently about women in the cocktail space and she described me as a translator because I do things like I did a book about equal parts cocktails, which is something that bartenders talk about but consumers typically don't, or I did a book about party size punches, but it was a reference to batching, which bartenders talk about but consumers don't, or my last book was called cocktails with a twist and it was about cocktail families, which bartenders talk about, but consumers don't, it's more about, you know, here's a margarita, which then could also be a spicy margarita, which would also be, you know, a mango margarita, or you change one spirit and it's a completely different cocktail, you put in rum, maybe it's a daiquiri, so I've kind of translated these very geeky bartender concepts into consumer-friendly language. Yeah, definitely, that's very cool. Is there anything, whether it's a book or a story, is there something that you're most proud of or was your kind of favorite piece that you've written? Well, I'm proud of the Shakespeare SIP book about equal parts cocktails and I mean, well, since you brought it up, I'm also, I'm proud of the article that got me that nomination for the Tales of the Cocktail Spirited Award and that's a story about a Japanese whisky maker from the turn of the century and for that, I basically followed another whisky maker all around Manhattan as he visited all the different sites that the Japanese whisky maker lived and worked at over the decades and he was sort of piecing together his history and thus I was sort of wove into that, not only the Japanese whisky maker's history but the researcher's history and it was just this very complicated, layered, nuanced, long read, like I don't typically get to write so it was really fun to roll up my sleeves and really work on this kind of deep dive. Yeah, that's wonderful. Well, speaking of you getting to write deep dive pieces, I mean, what advice would you give to someone who's looking to go into journalism today? I would probably advise them to do the same thing that I did, meaning to go where everybody else isn't in terms of finding their subject matter. I think it's a great idea to specialize but even if you don't, I think it's good to not be part of the areas that are so saturated. For me, everyone was covering food. It was the time when Food TV was really exploding and everyone wanted to write about food and be the next Anthony Bourdain and it turned out to be really fortuitous for me to find a little less saturated subset and that was ferrous and cocktails and that was wide open at the time and now there are lots of other people coming in. There's lots of competition but I think if somebody is getting into journalism for the first time and they're trying to figure out what they want to cover, I would say go where everybody else isn't and you'll have the field all to yourself and all those great stories all to yourself. And you live in New York, correct? I do. I do. Certainly nobody has to do anymore. Yeah, well, that's what I was going to ask because I know, I mean, you've written for the Wall Street Journal in a period of time, do you think living there plays a role at all in you getting those really high profile pubs? Or can you live? No, not necessarily. You can live anywhere these days. I mean, it's the era of the digital nomad. I mean, you asked me what's changed in journalism and that absolutely has. The digital footprint is all over the place. You'll get to know one another in different ways and find stories in different ways. I do think that it has helped me to sometimes be in the same room as my editors and my subjects and because I'm in New York, I cover not exclusively but strongly a lot of venues and distilleries that are, you know, here in my backyard. But I think someone living elsewhere could probably cover the same things. And there are times when I'm covering bars in Kansas City and I'm not in Kansas City. You know, these days, the Internet and social media has really changed everything and now people are having meetings over Zoom and you and I are having this conversation. We're not in the same room. We're not in the same state. Yeah, definitely. So I'm sure you get hitched about 10,000 times a day. Yes, yes, being with my existence. What advice would you give to brands and or PR people for their pitching? I mean, what are you looking for? What makes a good, maybe I should start that off. What makes a good pitch in your eyes? That's a really good way to put it. What makes for a good pitch in my eye? A pitch that's about a story and not necessarily a product. One of the things I would, I was thinking about what I want people to know about what I do and how I do it. I'm a freelancer who works with multiple publications and some have a consumer focus and some have a trade focus. I rarely cover wine even though I work with wine enthusiasts among other publications and wine is in the name and I get so many wine pitches that I cannot use and I think people just see that publication name in my bio and say, "Oh, wine, okay." And those are pretty much almost always automatically deleted. It's not that I never cover wine but it's just so rare or has to be so specific that these are pretty much wasted emails. So I think what makes a good pitch is something that's a story rather than just a product and something that actually applies to the world that I cover. That makes sense. Are you a fan of press trips? I take some of them. I find they can be very, very useful. I'm a big fan of boots on the ground reporting whenever possible and press trips really help make that happen. I have certain restrictions because I review spirits. I cannot accept press trips that are single brand spirits, press trips. That leaves a lot of other opportunities for me. But it definitely cuts me out of some of the really cushy, single brand press trips which are really prevalent in the spirits world. A lot of brands like to take journalists and immerse them in their world. And for me, that won't work if I then have to go back to my desk and sample a product and say, "Oh, this isn't very good, is it?" Yeah. So I have to be very careful about avoiding conflicts of interest and the appearance of conflicts of interest. But there are opportunities to travel in terms of press trips. I work with consumer tourism boards, I'll work with consortiums of spirits, when sometimes spirits brands all get together and play well, and those work really well for me. Or even festivals and things like that, or hotel-driven trips, those work really well for me. Anything that's not just a single brand has to work pretty well for me. And I find that you asked me also what advice would I give to a journalist coming up and trying to prove themselves. I would definitely recommend more than anything else to get as much, again, I keep calling boots on the ground, but I think that in-person reporting will take someone a long way. Everything now is available online. I know your focus is social media. Social media is tremendously helpful in terms of finding story ideas and sources. But it's not a substitute for getting out there and talking to people, picking up the phone and talking to people instead of sending an email, getting out on the road, getting out to a bar to actually try something in person, or to a distillery, or to a city or country. I mean, those are great opportunities, and it really differentiates your reporting and your writing from everybody else out there. Yeah, that's really good advice. So speaking of social, I know you said TikTok is not your favorite, but what on a personal level do you find yourself spending the most time on when it comes to social- These days, these days it's Instagram. I mean, if you had asked me a couple of years ago, I would have said Twitter because it's so word driven, but I'm not on Twitter at all. My account there is pretty much just a placeholder. So these days, I'm spending more time on Instagram and a bit more time on LinkedIn, but just a little more. Yeah, that's definitely changed over the last few years, but in terms of LinkedIn becoming more like not just for a job search, but how do you hear other people are using LinkedIn as well? Yeah, I feel like, I mean, I feel like 10 years ago, it used to be you only went on there. If you're looking for a job and now it's like people are using it to build their personal brand and just much more conversational is what I'm seeing. So it's almost morphing. I don't want to say it's becoming Facebook, but kind of like Facebook-y more so for work. So it's- I don't disagree. Yeah. And I feel like I've tried out every new social media platform that's come along. I tried Blue Sky and it was kind of fun for a while and I tried Host and it wasn't useful and I tried Mastodon and forgot about it promptly. And I'm still trying to find something else, I mean threads I guess I use, but I keep forgetting it's there. Yeah, that was an interesting one. When that came out, it was like every client we had to panic that we've got to get on threads and I was like, let's just wait a minute, like does the world really need threads right now and so many of these new ones just kind of fizzle out for sure. So you mentioned finding sources on social media. Can you share a little bit about how you do use social media for your job? Oh, absolutely. Sure. I mean, I use it to see what people are talking about more than anything else. I catch up on events, I didn't get to attend. I spend a lot of time in stories, sometimes more than I should in Instagram stories. Or if I know somebody's going to a bar or a restaurant I haven't yet visited but would like to, I'll take the little time to look at what they've posted about a place. I mean, sometimes I find kind of a glimmer of a story idea, but really the whole idea. And the last thing I use it for is I guess finding sources, you know, if someone is talking about something, I want to interview them for a story. Sometimes I'll connect through Instagram though I'll usually try not to DM somebody I've never met before, but every now and then there's no other way to get in touch. Yeah, definitely. I mean, how do you feel if someone DMs you as like a pitch through social? Is that something you prefer to happen on email? Definitely email. I'm way more organized than email. And half the time I don't even see DMs, they get routed into, you know, there's requests and then there's the main section and half the time for someone I'm not already connected with. It just lands on request. I don't even see it until, you know, until I actually go in and check, which can be a while sometimes. So it's not a great way to reach me. Yeah. Um, do you get like any pressure you said, you know, I know you write for different publications are your editors telling you like you have to get, you know, share the story on social so we'll get more link clicks. Does that happen? There are gentle requests, you know, gentle reminders. I don't think anyone has required it. It's more of like a nice to have. I think my editor's value, um, the content I provide more than the social media connections I have. Do you like it if a brand shares your story and tags you in that on social? I don't mind it. I mean, it's nice to, you know, it's nice to know that somebody out there is actually reading it. I think that my reviews are often shared and tagged if they like the review, or if someone's mentioned in a story, I do try to send the link around to anyone I've I've interviewed in that story. And if they're going to share it, I think that's great. And if they want to tag me, that's that's nice. Yeah. What is, what is your stance on social media influencers? I don't know if I have a stance. Um, I mean, social media influencers, it's a different kind of storytelling than, than journalism and social media influencers are not all the same. I am amazed the amount of production work that goes into some of the influencer posts is really impressive. Um, in general, I'm not a fan of the pay for play model. And some of the influencer posts can be just so relentlessly positive. And those are just really easy to spot and scroll by. Are there any of the cocktail influencers that you look to kind of see what's trending like a joint jewels or anyone like that? I'm not sure. I mean, I'm also not quite sure what's considered an influencer. Like for example, on Instagram, I'm a huge fan of drinking with chickens. Is she a social media influencer? I don't know. I don't know. Maybe she is. She's not a journalist, I don't think, but I love her content. And every now and then she'll be talking about, she doesn't talk so much about spirits products, but I mean, she has her own merch. I don't know. I mean, I'm not trying exactly answering the question here. I mean, I enjoy some of them on a personal level. I'm not sure that a lot of influencers actually influence what I'm planning to cover. Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. I mean, I, I feel like that I've talked to some people are like very violently against each other's like almost appalled. And then others, you know, I've talked to a lot of people who do say, oh, I discovered this brand or I discovered this cocktail by following them. So it's interesting to see people's reactions. Do you like at these meet these brand events or press trips, do you, do you see more influencers being invited to kind of the same events that media are invited to? Sometimes, I guess here's where I do have some, some thoughts, a stance. I've, I had an interesting experience on a press trip that included both journalists and, and influencers. I don't even remember who it was. It wasn't someone who I was familiar with. I don't think they were even covering spirits. I think they were more of like a lifestyle influencer, but I remember it so vividly because it was somebody who traveled with a video videographer following them around. And it was interesting because we both wanted access to the same people and the same experiences. I mean, the point is to have access to this content that will inspire an idea or that you want to, to share. But it was really hard to mix these two groups, you know, journalists and influencers together because I found it was really difficult for me to ask these deep dive questions about Drake techniques while the influencer was trying to, you know, get the perfect lighting for five takes of the thing on martini. And I said the influencer also was annoyed that I was getting in their shot and asking these picky little questions about gin botanicals and bitter blends when they were just trying to get the content that they need to do their jobs. Yeah. So you almost in some ways would think like if you were recommending to a brand that you have more of a media focused experience and then, you know, carve out time for the influencers. Yeah, I, I think that we don't necessarily have compatible goals. It doesn't mean that one is more desirable than another. I just think that our styles of gathering content for our work is, is very different. Yeah, definitely. Well, those were the bulk of my questions. I know we're coming up on our time, but is there anything new that you're working on and you mentioned that you have the book in the works? Are you going to be at tales of the cocktails? I'm still figuring that out. I know that I will be at Brooklyn Bar Convent and that's coming up in a couple of weeks in Brooklyn, New York. I, I hope to get the tales, you know, fingers crossed, I'll need to make some arrangements. Will you be there? I'm going for the first time. It's been on my bucket list for forever. So I'm, I, I love New Orleans. I know some people, I feel like you either love it or hate it, but I love the time. Do you like it? I like it. I'd like it less in July. I would love to see the conference moves to stay, you know, February, but New Orleans is just, it's a ton of fun, you know, there's just always so much to, to take in and so visually stimulating and there's so many good things to eat and drink. You're going to have a good time. Definitely. I'm looking forward to it. Do you have like a favorite bar in New Orleans? Oh, I mean, anything owned by the, the cure team is always terrific. Okay. I mean, I'd like, I'd like cure, let's say I had a really good experience at Matalita last time. I guess outside of that family, Jewel of the South is also a really nice experience. Definitely check it out. Well, I really appreciate you sharing your insight. It was, it was very interesting, you know, being on the PR side. It's so interesting to hear on the media side and, you know, just really good to always remember to, you know, I think we're, I think we're all looking through the world through our own, our own lens at our own movie and, you know, knowing that like you're getting bombarded with wine pitches all day is like, you know, it's just always good to keep that in mind when you're, when you're working together. So I appreciate you taking the time. Oh, it's my pleasure. Thanks for, for asking such thoughtful questions. Yeah. All right. Well, and to follow you it on Instagram, you want to give your handle? It is, it's Newman underscore Cara, K-A-R-A. Perfect. All right. Well, I really appreciate it and look forward to talking in the future. Thank you. And maybe I'll see you in New Orleans. Yeah. All right, everybody, that wraps up today's episode of Eat, Drink, Social. Thanks for listening. If you have a story to share or know somebody that does, feel free to reach out to us. Okay. Thanks. I'll see you in the next one. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. [BLANK_AUDIO]