New Approaches with Kat Pasquatch

(upbeat music) Welcome to Rose City Politics. We are continuing our conversations with candidates running for mayor and city council across Windsor. I'm Doug Sartori, and I'll be your host for this episode, and I'm joined by my co-host, Pat Papadayas. - Hello. - Today, we're turning our attention to the mayor's race. There are 11 candidates registered for mayor, and over the course of this election, we're talking with a number of them about their campaigns, their priorities, and their vision for Windsor. As always, we'd like to recognize and thank Launa Locals 625 for supporting this podcast. Today, we're joined by Kat Pasquatch, candidate for mayor of Windsor. Pat describes herself as a community builder, entrepreneur, and proud Windsor. She was born in Toronto, spent part of her youth in Musinine near her family's indigenous community, Muscre First Nation, and later came to Windsor to attend the University of Windsor, where she spent seven years as a student and another nine as an employee. Her professional background spans indigenous outreach and education, nonprofit housing, entrepreneurship, arts and culture, and labor advocacy. Since 2023, she has been president and CEO of Cannam Urban Native Nonprofit Homes, having previously served three years on its board. She is also the founder and operator of Culture Shock Beade Company, an indigenous owned business she started with her mother. At the University of Windsor, Kat served as Aboriginal Outreach and Retention Coordinator from 2016 to 2025, and was a University of Windsor Senate representative for six years. She has also been involved with a number of community and arts organizations, including the Windsor Essex Orange Shirt Day Committee and Art Windsor Essex. Kat, thank you for joining us. - Wow, that was incredible, thank you. - That's quite a resume. Okay, let's start off with the question that sets the stage for everything that will follow. Why are you running for mayor of Windsor? - Every time I get asked this, it actually doesn't get any easier answering. Mainly because this journey has evolved and I think what I had started off with when I first put in that application, which is just this crazy notion that I could really stir up change. And it's really built a lot in the past few months since I've submitted my papers. But at this point in the game, I know that in order to lead our city in a different direction and being able to change the status quo that I've been seeing, all of the years that I've lived here, I know that I can bring that perspective to the table and I'm going full steam ahead with my campaign and hoping that people resonate with the message that I'm gonna bring. - You know, in your, first of all, let me just say, I was, as impressive as the Arizona is, my favorite part is being in business with your mother 'cause I love a good mother daughter story. I just wanna put that out there. But you describe your approach as putting people first and progressive leadership. Tell us a little bit about what that actually means in practice when you're making a sort of municipal, a difficult municipal decision and how that translates to how you would lead us, Mayor. - I, a lot of the leadership that I've always looked to were a lot of Indigenous women and the way that Indigenous communities work is always collaboratively. It's, there's this, there's the idea of the circle and a sharing circle. Maybe people have heard about this, even restorative justice circles and decision-making and sitting in a circle really puts everybody at the same place. And even when I look at the way that the city hall is structured and seeing the mayor sitting on a higher platform than everybody else in that space, there's this power dynamic that always has set, always been uneasy with me in any sort of institutional space. And I know that in terms of the way that I think about progressive leadership, it's really about bringing all voices to an equal place to have a say in how decision-making is made. And that really does tie back to the cultural ties and my cultural upbringing. So when I think about progressive, that lens sort of helps shape the way that I look at leadership and how I would approach the mayor seat moving forward. - It's really interesting. And so I would really like to hear you elaborate on that and maybe give us an example of a Windsor issue where you think the current approach is not working and where your approach would be fundamentally different. I think about the different voices and the things that I've heard about the unhoused and those specifically that are facing addiction. And I think about some of the comments that have heard on how we should be dealing with that. And what I hear a lot is a lot of judgment and misconception of what folks are experiencing. And when you bring people into sort of like, when you think about treatment and you think about these spaces, like let's say like NAA, those models are used, right? Everybody is sitting, you have the opportunity to share, you have the opportunity to learn about other people. And I don't think that there are enough people and Windsor that sort of understand what it is to struggle and what it is to have addiction issues. And if we actually took this time to be able to sit down and see people for the human beings that they are, that dignity, you start to build up dignity, right? You start to be able to see somebody and the struggles that they face and maybe have a better understanding of why they're in the situation that they are. - We're gonna pick up on what you were talking at a little bit in terms of housing, homelessness will pick up on the substantive issue. Housing is clearly a major priority for you and you even mentioned it sort of like really early on. And you proposed expanding cooperative housing using city-owned land and long-term leases. Why cooperative housing? What does that model achieve that conventional affordable housing decent? - I like the idea. When I was researching cooperative housing models, I really like the idea of people that maybe have access to savings that haven't qualified for conventional mortgages. And that actually includes myself. I haven't been able to, that being a first-home, first-time home buyer has sort of always been out of my reach even though I've had professional success and secure job over the years. But when I've looked at some of the cooperative housing models in other cities and even in other countries, people are able to come together and be able to put that purchasing power together. So whether or not somebody has a set amount of savings, whether somebody has a smaller pool of access, it's the combined resources that come together that enable people to buy into that space. And so somebody maybe that's putting down a higher down payment into a process like that will have a lower payment than a lower rent, so to speak, than somebody maybe who doesn't have that access and they'd be paying a closer to a market rent into the cooperative housing. And I really like this idea of like, you're meeting people where they're at based on income and based on savings and coming together in community. And that's part of the conversation that we're seeing. We're seeing a lot of struggles in society that we're not relying on each other enough and we're not speaking to each other enough. There is a big disconnect that's happening. That's this underlying undertone that's happening in our communities everywhere. - You've committed to a 0% property tax increase in your first year as mayor. At the same time, your platform proposes doing more in a number of areas, including expanded housing, transit, homelessness response, small business supports, investments in youth programming and arts and culture. Where does the money come from? What would you be prepared to cut, defer, or do differently to make that commitment possible? - So the nice part about some of the ideas that I brought forward don't cost money. And I think right away about the youth mentorship programs that we would be able to enable. Something like that, I have been able to build with no budget whatsoever and then move forward. And really what that takes is time and dedication from volunteers and other like-minded citizens. Thinking about that 0% though and the reality of it is, it's the way that I think about it right now and the climate that we're in. I think a lot of people are strapped for cash. There is a lot of concern about how and who can afford a tax increase. And I know that there is a lot of concern about the budget right now. How are we gonna address all of the rising costs? And I've been chatting with other counselors on their thoughts about this. Some are saying that this budget is the single most important thing that's gonna be looked at and I'm hearing other counselors, and other prospective counselors talking about ways that they would like to be able to raise money. And I'm like that needs to be a part of the conversation. And I haven't been hearing enough of that. What are the things that the city isn't doing right now in terms of generating revenue that makes sense to the city? And yeah. like I don't hear enough of that conversation, I know that there isn't enough money in the budget currently, but like, let's look at ways to do that. Okay. I want to follow up on that because you touched on affordability and affordability for the community in your response. And one of your opponents has talked about the whole tax bill, the whole bill for city services, and I'm curious in terms of affordability. What are your thoughts on user fees, on some of the costs that are imposed on people to live in this city and take advantage of services, and how does that fit into your fiscal plans? So thinking when I first started hearing about that, I'm like, wow, that's really going to impact, I think, the lowest income people in our community. People that actually have to rely or really dependant on public services, and what area that is, and so I think about the bus, is that the bus that we're going to be looking to go increase the fee to get on the bus, and I don't agree with that. I don't agree with that system because people that don't use the bus are then suddenly absolved of helping carry that cost to the city, and something like transit is needed and should be invested by everybody in our community. I don't think that that's really where we should be looking right now in terms of it. So if we're talking about from what I assume might be Francis's plan in order to address those fees, I don't think that that that is the way forward. It really just starts to create this disparity between low income, the middle class, and then those that maybe just don't access the services, the way that the rest of the community does. I know that the budget is going to be a very big challenge, and there's, it really is surfacing to the top of conversation in a way that I guess I didn't anticipate when I first put together my platform. And where I was really focused on thinking about it at the time was this looming threat of terrorists and the cost of living that's happening in Windsor, and all I could think about was prioritizing the safety of expectation in the first year, and then really being able to dig down and look at the processes and really understand how things are being spent in the city in the first year and go from there because I really don't think that the 0% is sustainable. But because of there's so much uncertainty right now, it's something that I actively trying to strive for the other part of that is thinking about it's not going to be entirely up to me right it's going to be up to a council of individuals to sit down and have that hard discussion on whether or not we can actually achieve that that is my hope. And the more that this conversation comes up the more that I'm able to sit and reflect and say OK, maybe I'm not right on this and it's OK to admit that and I think that's going to be one of the strengths that I can share with Windsor Windsor rights is that I'm going to be able to take accountability if I am not making the best decision, but there is going to be a team of people at City Hall coming together to make the best decisions for everyone. A lot of a lot of what you've put out there is really about new approaches. I'm not so sure the 0% no increases necessarily new in terms of differentiating and we'll probably get to a little bit of that today as well, but you know you call from your approaches to for example homelessness addiction and mental health crisis response. What specifically would you do differently from what Windsor is doing now on those. It's like it's so sometimes it's just so basic that we forgot like the simplest ways to be able to support people that are facing that. And right now what I'm seeing especially because I live in the downtown core like my business is down here is like washrooms and building dignity like. There are there's this is one of the biggest issues that I've been hearing from residents in the downtown core is where do people go to the bathroom, where do people go and shower. Like if somebody is trying to come out of addiction, they need basic supports in order to move forward and you know access to food. We have shelter supports in the downtown core, but there is this expectation that people that are accessing those services have to leave throughout the day. So where do those people go to the bathroom, right? We've actually gone out on the street and chatted with folks and people that are. That are using the shelter services on the day to day basis and I've asked them where do you go to the bathroom and they say anywhere I can. And that's just the reality of it and so if you want to. If we want to address those needs, we need to start with basic needs first and other residents have even said we just need to get some ported parties down there and then go from there. It doesn't have to be so complicated when we start with small increments, we're going to be able to build up a better community. So that's where I think that's where that's where I would like to start. OK, and so just to follow up on that, what would you ask of the provincial and federal government in terms of supporting your agenda around new approaches to homelessness addiction and mental health crisis response. What would you want to see from those higher levels of government? I want them to stop relying on charities in order to provide the services like I really want to see them start to take accountability because I've been seeing so much finger pointing in terms of who's responsible for what. And at some point, we need to say enough is enough that everybody it's a collective responsibility on all of us because I see it as a sort of failing of society that so many people are facing addiction issues and are unhoused in our community. Where to go to them and ask them, I would say like we need to stop relying and I know that this might be a little contentious, but we need to stop relying on Christian based charities and their models and start looking at other types of resources to help support people. I think that that is one of the reasons why the welcome center has been so successful. I'm pretty sure that they are not a Christian based faith organization. There is room for that. There is space for that. I don't want to diminish the work they're doing. It's incredibly important, but it can be incredibly difficult, even for someone like me, this indigenous to access those types of services because it doesn't fit with, you know, it just jive with my life. And I know that there are other folks that are on house that feel the same way. I think it was a couple of weeks ago, we had another counselor on the show who we asked, you know, what they've learned from the time they were elected to that evolution. And part of his campaign and actually specifically Ronaldo in Ward 3 in the downtown core, which for a variety of reasons that we know in terms of the concentration of services in the core. This is where predominantly at least these issues are seen. I'm going to put it that way. But your strategy in terms of crime specifically, which is not necessarily the same thing, but connected in the way people see these issues. Emphasizes prevention, youth programming, mentorship, intervention. So again, another approach, sort of on this team. So your approach in terms of public safety, putting emphasis less on enforcement and more on prevention, how does that approach, what does that look like in practice for you? And again, what would you do differently in terms of the crime aspects? Because I do think sometimes crime, mental health and addiction is convoluted, but to the extent that we're talking about specifically crime. So I guess with that is like, they feel like sometimes the underlying question, do I believe in more policing? And the answer is no, I don't policing is not the answer, right. I know that there has been shifts and changes. I've been seeing social workers teamed up with police in terms of, you know, being able to go to those distress calls. And how they handle that and how things are working out there from that point, I don't think I have enough information to see what's working and what isn't right now. I don't know if we've had that model enough long enough in Windsor to see success or to see any of the failure points in how Windsor police is dealing with that. But what I think about and when I was looking at sort of the trend of crime in our city, what I'm seeing is a lot more petty crime, right. I'm seeing like packages being stolen, right. And people are looking for packages that are maybe high in value and they'll go and they'll pawn it or they'll throw something like that up on market place. And sometimes it's just about meeting basic needs, right. And that is why when I talk about access to basic services, it's so important because I think we're definitely going to see a curb. If people have access to food and if people have access to basic amenities. And I think about other areas outside of the court, you know, where we're seeing vandal, vandalism. And I think about youth that are bored, right. There's nowhere for youth to go. We're losing a lot of our third spaces where people active. We're hearing complaints about people going through the alleys in the evening and thefts of bikes and so on and so forth. And I think if people had safe spaces to go with our youth, safe places to go, we would see a real deterrent there. And investing back in the community is the best way and where we see some of the most success in other communities. And we're seeing a lot of that in New York, which I think is incredible when you actually stop and look at the programs. programs that they're putting out there. It's been it's it's been amazing seeing the response and seeing how the culture in the city has shifted. Hey, um, you're expanded platform calls for more frequent transit, um, expanded evening service and Sunday service and restoration of the winter Detroit tunnel bus. So, um, focusing specifically on the tunnel bus and expanded services, what problems are those investments intended to solve and how would you pay for it? So how would we pay for it is definitely this is definitely a part of the long term game. And when I talk about transit, um, I need to like back up the conversation just a bit because I think about what I mean hearing about the toxic work culture of our city employees and I hear about so many distrustful things about what's been happening to our transit drivers, uh, and the frustrations that they're experiencing there that need to be addressed. I don't see something I I will say that in the first year, especially with the the idea of a zero percent increase, this isn't going to happen immediately, right? All of these plans are I'm expecting to lay out over the next four years. But that being said, if we're going to see a shift and we're going to see a change, we're really going to have to sit and talk to the transit workers and the people that work there to see what is happening, what needs to be improved and how we want to go about that collaboratively and it's going to be a big discussion and it's going to be hard conversation. And I don't think anybody's ever really wanted to have it up until this point. So moving forward, how we're going to pay for that. Like, I guess what I need to be said is at some point we do have to raise taxes because the way we want to grow in this city, it's inevitable. We're not going to be able to hold the line on zero percent forever. But in the first year is that the most reasonable thing for me to say I'm going to go and change everything right away. I just don't think that that is the right approach until I know what it is exactly needs to change. And how we're going to change it. So you talked about a number of potential investments and a four year plan for Windsor transit. But if you could make one significant change to the transit system in the first year, what would it be? Buses around schooling and like students moving throughout the city and being able to help reduce that congestion during peak hours, I think would be most beneficial to residents immediately. Okay, I'll get to the dreaded road question. The alternative and I guess buses need to be on roads and everything. But road safety is in fact actually one of your four pillars in the original platform, you know, Doug mentioned earlier expanded platform. And it's been really interesting to see from the time that you first announced and correct me if I'm wrong, you were the first candidate to announce. You know, you we almost see an evolution really of of your platform and but road safety was one of your four pillars in the original platform. So it obviously made made it to your priority list really early on. What is the single kind of biggest challenge you would make or change, sorry, to you would make to improve road safety in Windsor. Why was that one of your your top four priorities? Because of all the speeding in the city. Oh my gosh, it's just inevitable and it is everywhere. And I've driven all across Ontario. I've used up the travel regularly every weekend to different communities. And everyone's speed limits are between 30 to 40. Why are we going 50 to 60 to 70 in some of our residential neighborhoods. I see that's I see that is a fairly cost effective way to be able to increase road safety. And I don't understand why we've allowed this trend to continue for so long of people being able to move at much higher speeds across the city in a ways that are unsafe. I mean, the one I guess the cost of rolling out new signs would be an expense. But for the most part, I think that's one of the easiest ways to be able to create safer neighborhoods. There's so many areas, even on my street where I see signs that community members have come together and say, slow down, there are children in this neighborhood. And they're constantly asking that. And then we see like the speed bumps, but how effective are they really, right? It's it's you're still going to get the same speed down the street. And so if we ask if we actually are signaling speed bumps with the slower speed limit. That's To me, it just makes sense. And why is Windsor always so far behind all of the other changes that are happening in other cities. Okay, changing gears a little bit. You've made transparency, a really big part of your platform. What information does the public currently not have that you believe it should have? About me. What information about municipal business? What is what is not transparent enough right now? I mean, okay, that's thinking about this question actually. I got posed with like 300 questions from my team. They're like, we're going to get you prepared for this interview today. And I was like, I was terrified reading some of the questions you put together for me. And this one kind of came up as well. It's been really interesting hearing the conversations about how the agenda gets built during council meetings. And who is deciding that and how you get items and how counselors are able to actually access that and get issues in front of everybody to discuss. I think that there needs to be more transparency there because we want residents to be engaged, right? We want residents that be able to have access and on how things are coming out. And even the way that we're getting notice and agendas are being shared and Oh my gosh, like that's not that's not a democratic process whatsoever. And I think that that's one of the simplest ways to be like, hey, this is an easy way to say, this is how you get involved. This is how you can enact change in the city. This is how you get your voice heard. Why is it so convoluted? Why is it such a struggle right now for everyone? Counselors residents to be able to have a voice in city hall. So transparency and the flip side or at least, you know, bread and butter of certain, especially when when the electorate is that is looking to change. Transparency and accountability are two things that come to mind. So on the issue of accountability. What would that look like under administration under your leadership if you're elected mayor? How would Windsor residents know whether you're actually delivering what you promise? What does accountability look like for you? accountability really ties into communication. And when I've chatted with some of the other folks that are at city hall right now, I think that Windsor has like a failing grade in terms of how they communicate processes, right? It's been really interesting. The information that sort of come my way now that I put my name forward about things that are happening in the city that are actually incredible, right? There's really cool things that are happening in the city in terms of support and services, but we don't hear about this. Even when you try to go look for that information, it's like, I don't have access to this. I'm going to give the example of last night, there was a conversation happening at the art gallery about housing in our community. And the mental health supports and the way that shifts shifts are happening, the way that there are medical services now that can help immediately meet the needs of those experiencing like addiction on our streets, I haven't heard anything about that as a resident, and I put my name forward for this municipal election. I'm not like oblivious to these things happening in the community. So it's been really interesting to see that that if you're not communicating anything, then nobody even knows how to keep you accountable, right? If you're just keeping everyone in the dark about everything, then that's a really easy thing to hide behind. We released a podcast earlier on the incumbent who is running for reelection, and we asked him about strong mayor powers. I think it was, I don't know, my sense was it was the question that kind of hurt him because in his view, didn't like the framing of the word strong mayor and what the public has done with that, but you said that people should remain concerned about post wrong mayor powers are used. I think that ties into transparency and accountability, but you've also said that, you know, they can be used in certain circumstances, at least that's my reading of your platform if elected, how would you decide when it is actually appropriate to use those powers rather than work through council. I think, so this is, this is where I think like a worst case scenario, right? And it's unlikely, but it But what if we get a council that makes all of their decisions that are not based on factor science or any of the reports that administrator or administration is putting forward, right? Like, what if what if we end up with a council that is spending, spending all of our money on priorities that are not important to the city or just don't make sense for our community. And I, I could think about if I were to flip things, right? The outrage that community residents feel that our tunnel bus was canceled, what if the mayor was in a position to do the opposite and say, hey, actually, I'm going to bring back tunnel bus, I'm going to overturn this decision, I think that people would have been applauding him, right? But that wasn't how this played out in this situation. I think taking a really strong to Sans on saying I'm absolutely never going to do that really pigeonholes and I understand that maybe that was what they Francis believed was going to be the win in his campaign is I'm never going to use this because I don't want to be anything like Dilkins. But when I started looking at other mayors who used the powers in order to help cut red tape for housing development, I was like that is something I can get behind, right? If we are going to speed up processes because something has to go all the way back to committee or maybe even back to public consultation before it can be approved, this is one of the ways that I think what it was designed that was what strong mayor powers were designed to do was help speed up housing. Honestly, I didn't realize at the time how contentious this would be but I am hearing the voices of so many residents saying like we don't want it, we don't want you to do that. And I agree like to go and overturn democratic processes doesn't sit right with me and that kind of goes like was right back to the process that I was talking about earlier of sitting in a circle and collaborative decision making. So yeah, that's I think something we really wanted to get at is how you how you in your decision making process reconcile the priority that you've stated for collaboration, transparency and listening. And I think you've given some indication about when you would make that choice. I'm curious though how like in your reflection on this, how do you categorize that? How do you think about like when you would need to impose your will versus listen and be collaborative? I I guess I sort of think like I keep thinking back to this example of like other decision making that I other decision making tables that I've been at, right? I'm like I think that we should do this. I think we should take this really strong stance and my committee members have been like cat like calm down, so down. Let's try some other ways to approach things before we get to your idea. And it's very humbling and it's very um it's a moment of like self-reflection and what I realized gets really tied into that is someone's ego and if you can keep your ego in check it really uh like I said like it it humbled me and to be able to stop and say okay my approach is not right and I can have that conversation. And just what I was sharing with you earlier of just being able to say okay maybe I'm not making the best decision but this is going to be a collective decision. It's just been that is a track record that I have that community members and other organizations that I've worked with have seen. And um I just have to say that right and I have to say that with you now and say this so that people can hear my voice that that that is it's it's not easy and I don't see enough accountability for people in decision making positions right now to to admit when they're wrong and I'm more than willing to do that. Okay um relatively so you've spent the summer knocking on doors and talking to Windsor residents and um what have you heard that has surprised you or changed your thinking since you entered this race? There's uh I feel like this could go through different ways. So what surprised me was how many people don't uh understand the different levels of government and responsibility um whether it's municipal jurisdiction I got asked a lot about health care about uh teaching in schools and education and what happens in classrooms and it you have to be so careful and so tactful and how you respond to that um just trying to provide that like this isn't actually the purview of the municipality um but you still want people to be engaged and encouraged right and have those conversations and kind of redirect them to the people they should be having the conversation with. Another thing I didn't expect was to see how powerful some of the messaging that I've put out is and how relatable um I am I I really wasn't expecting that whatsoever and um working and connecting with so many different members of our community and and seeing them um express their solidarity and their support of me was was I was taken aback I'm still kind of sitting on that even after some experiences last night it's humbling it's like wow people are really really do believe in the platform that I put forward and I'm excited to see where this this plans us where this goes. I know we're we're sort of reaching the wrap up but I do want to ask you because you've been forthright and not only um uh identifying to of what I think you know despite what people want to say out social media is admittedly you know the two folks that are known names in this race um you know you've got an incumbent mayor who's been in there for 12 years you named them even I've got to say you know that was like an interesting it's like okay we don't have to say had this incumbent or that incumbent but you know and then you've got another counselor who's been there for 12 years so and then you've got you know a total of 11 people running so in addition to yourself nine what is that another snow how many people do we have nine others okay I'm doing the math math so on a second there are 11 people running yeah okay perfect okay so so you know I saw 12 and I'm thinking okay 12 years on council for each of them one is counting well Drew Delkins has been on for a lot longer having said that you know what I'm saying here are two well-known names that a lot of people don't need it you had to break through right um along with uh sort of uh uh another large group of people running from mayor to get your name out there first of all in terms of rate name recognition which I think you've done personally very very well like in a race where you haven't been elected but you know I guess what I'm asked I want to ask you is what do you think this election is going to come down to because what I think people are thinking is okay you got two folks that people think are the front runners um and there's always opportunity for somebody to break through right especially when those two are long established and if people are looking for what does that look like because I think one is positioned as the change candidate is Z etc so I guess what I'm asking you what do you think this election is going to come down to in terms of what you have to offer to voters that they can't get from those two candidates wow no I mean I was obviously expecting this question and it's it's um like what makes me different and yeah what differentiates your you know what what you can offer I think a lot of the regular everyday residents in the city that don't necessarily come from public privilege see something in me and that has been the part that like leaves me feeling so like flustered and humbled um because you know being a small business owner I've shared in the media that I've been on housed you know I've lost family to addiction um and uh I I know that I'm bringing a perspective that has never really had a voice at city hall and people see that right like I am an artist in the community I am a community I'm a community leader for my indigenous community and be putting my name forward has really sparked this conversation of I have someone to vote for now because I see myself in you and that was like what has been so powerful and like I can feel it like even as I'm sharing with you now like I need to take this energy and I needed to help motivate me to keep going because there's been days or it's been challenging right and just to be able to be real and have this conversation openly with you and to share with all of the listeners and I know there's so many people out there that listen to this podcast which is why I was so nervous to do it um we just we want to see real people representing us in decision making positions right we want to see that and then we're seeing that change sort of sweeping across the United States and I and I don't always love comparing the Windsor to the United States but there's so much momentum there because we're seeing so much anger and hate leading in other areas that we really do need find ways to stick together I know that I've had a lot of conversations with people who have never voted and I've never cared to vote because I've never seen themselves represented and they see that in me and that is that is a powerful thing for someone to come and share even just last night you know another small business owner that I met said he's never I've never voted once in my life I've never cared to and then I saw you were running and I am so excited can I have a poster to put up in my window like that was that was so cool and it keeps pushing me forward and it gets me really excited but really you know all of these things and the voices and change all of the things that help encompass who I am have really helped me excel as a leader outside of City Hall and I'm really hoping that I can convince enough people to get to the polls and that at the end will be a big win for me if we can get our dismal voter turnout up I will feel so proud of the work that I have done at the end of this campaign thank you for taking the time to have this conversation with us we really appreciate you coming on and we wish you well through the rest of the campaign and to the folks listening thank you so much for tuning in we'll continue releasing conversations with candidates. as we head towards the October 26th municipal election. In the meantime, I'm Doug Sartori, along with Pat Papadea. - Thanks for coming on, Kat. - Yeah, thanks for joining us on Ro City Politics. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music)