Nev & Carra: Man City’s Anfield win overshadowed as Liverpool’s Wirtz problem grows

Welcome everybody to Anfield for the Gary Neville Jamie Karago podcast at the end of a most peculiar day in the history of the Premier League Liverpool have been beaten 3-0 by Manchester City, which is Barely the headline in itself, and I think the simple question to start with so both of you is How you feel at the end of that day? It's not feeling isn't it because ordinarily over the last 10-15 years when we've seen Manchester City come here Quite often we've seen my very difficult days. It's a Horrible place to come just full stop for any team from Manchester United or City and we would be absolutely Eulogising over a performance like that where they've come through and withstood a really difficult part of the game Which is the first part always is here at Anfield the frantic nature of it and then they come out on top with 3-0 There's a but isn't there and we're sat here not knowing what this means. We know what it means today We know that Manchester City go three points clear at the top of the league But there's a feeling that ultimately this is not going to be where Manchester City finish You know ultimately Liverpool fans are singing going down their shouting cheats through the last 5-10-15 minutes of the match And you can't get away from that ultimately and city fans are not going to be able to get away They're a bit absolutely delighted the city fans. They love their football club. They will support their football club long after this season for the next 20-30-40-50 years But I don't think they probably recognize right now the stain the stigma the damage that this is going to do to them And there is going to be I think up and down the country a lot of annoyance That they see this team that is glorious to watch at times and got some fantastic players Wean football matches. It's just not going to be enjoyed and I don't think to be fair as united fan I've ever enjoyed city winning game, but what I have to do is have admired them enormously over the last 10-15 years And there's just a little bit of something there isn't that that just takes away the The feeling that you have at the end of a football match that means that you feel a little bit lower in your stomach You feel a little bit like you're Watching something that's false that's not right And we just have to get through to January February don't we wear this obviously well Manchester City will either clear themselves or they'll be Found for the guilty didn't well the guilt will be confirmed So yeah, for me, I think there's just a feeling that at the end of a match feels quite strange I could sense it a little bit in your voice Peter in the second and third goals went in that wasn't quite the sort of Feeling that you get am I was the same I think you were the same weren't you just feel a little bit like Did the funny thing gives me much to say they'd be delighted tonight They want to understandably so and listen those supporters as you've just said love their football crew And this will be one of almost one of the great days. They probably all look back in years to come You know, everybody's being against the whole world's against us and we all came so I'm free We had a party got the bananas out from you know something that you're so shaped with them sort of the late 80s early 90s So they love that today, but in some ways I almost think the feeling around Manchester City Will grow even more the more they win In some ways everyone was desperate for them to lose their most of the country so they'd be delighted and any set of supporters and players Would have been exactly the same will ram that down the throat of everybody who's against us And I keep saying a football club is like your family. You defend them to the absolute health So and that's what city fans have done and they'll love today But I just think the feeling around the country will just keep growing and growing and growing until this is sort and this This needs sort of a Manchester City as well One way or another they can't keep kicking the can down at all. This needs we need a resolution as soon as possible because But watching again there today and what does it actually mean really going forward? Is it making any difference to Manchester City this season going for the league with Arsenal? They're the two best teams by a mile. We know that no one else is going to really compete with them in terms of the title But yeah, I mean we won every game to match. We said that to Skydon was almost like a slogan for Skydon every game matters But right now it doesn't It does indicate that whatever they had to manage over the course of the last fortnight Manchester City They've managed it really well, haven't they because it could have gone either of two ways There could have been a scenario. You could dream up the night before of them actually crossing the white line and Not finding that fiber and intensity and defiance, which is a word we've used a lot today And they did and they did appear to enjoy their day Yeah, I thought they had some really good performers I thought the donor Roman done a Roman goal was fantastic But Diaz at the back thought he just played quite a few long passes actually in the first half that just sort of he didn't sort of Complicate his game. I thought he was very solid thought Elliot Anderson in midfield was absolutely outstanding And then Harlan's just there, isn't he? I mean that first goal that sort of finish is just brutal I always think emphatic devastating that the words I use when I watch Irling Harlandy Comes alive for a moment and just lights the game at what a goal scorer what a player. So those three players I just thought generally and Elliot Anderson Big big question marks about the money big question marks can he replace Roderie Big question marks can he fill the gap and can he become a player that can play at this level because obviously he's coming up from notting them forest He's answered all those questions in the first couple of months. He's been absolutely outstanding Looks like a real Top performer and I'm not Yeah, I think when Declan Rice went to Arsenal We knew that Arsenal were getting gold We knew that they were getting a fantastic player that would do a great job for them And I think we all said that eventually we thought that they he'd take them to the title He would be the difference player and it has probably happened I don't think we thought that Elliot Anderson was maybe in that category or in that level But I tell you what he's knowledge of the game. He's understanding of the position The way in which he's now starting to stride around the pitch And the ways which he started to leave one on a couple of players You know that it's a mechalister and others Take the ball in difficult situations Dominate big matches like Anfield and an old Trafford, which is tough for Manchester to go and play at these grounds He's been outstanding hasn't he's been really really good and looks like he's worth every single penny and more Yeah, I mean if you're a new castle fan watching that you know the mess they got themselves into it pay us And this and that maybe goes back to the Manchester United Manchester City situation and they had to sell players And you know we talk about the rules but you think about could they have sold someone else and kept him You know you think of the money nothing on forest. I mean, I'm not even sure what new castle was about 15 million wasn't it something like that You know wasn't a lot more than that and you look at him as a player now And right now you're looking at arguably the best midfield player in the country alongside Yeah, I'm right. So those both Declan Rice top of that list, saying at the end of the last season we're in the title but Both well going forward for England maybe as well at the you know got two English players who for me And Rice at the the top of the class in the world. Did you see Joe Bellingham's assist last night for the Vinicius junior goal I mean that was unbelievable. I mean you think about England's midfield of rice Bellingham and Anderson He gets that ball and that left-hand side he skips. Oh, she's a problem Sorry, sorry that turn off. Yeah, come on Yeah, Bellingham you think about the three in midfield that England have got outstanding you could argue it's Getting to a point whereby you could think it might be one of the best midfield best midfield in the world type thing It's I mean another Spanish will have something to say about that, but it's a brilliant midfield. We have No, it's hard not to get excited actually there's an Englishman about that with the next tournament being at home But that's another story. I just wanted Jamie whether if we stripped away the whole shenanigans with Manchester City off the back of this weekend you would be Chilting towards City over arstall, you know in that sort of two-way conversation because they Some of the football they play today was was beautiful, wasn't it? I think it's hard to do that this early I think what you would see from Manchester City's point of view The two toughest venues along with Arsenal where they've gone and won I'm winning very difficult circumstances where all traffic with 10 men and here today coming into the situation that they came into So I'm a big fan of mereska. I always have been I remember him coming here with Chelsea in his face season And that was the season Liverpool won the league and Liverpool won the game But tactically it was fantastic cause Liverpool read the problems every time and I slot came up again So there was he could definitely handle himself at this level And when you go back to how they beat how Chelsea be Paris Saint-Germain in the club world cup I think they beaten three now or three one And it wasn't just this scraped through they beat the best team in the world and played them off the par Copa was outstanding So he could he could handle himself at a level So I was told it was a great appointment when he come in You see how he handled himself in the press conference ahead of this game as well Didn't look flustered looked in total control So I think they've got a top manager there Yeah, it's not I said in the game Who knows along that last because of the situation with City going forward We've always known they were great players and I said that in commentary Whether you're talking about the money they've spent Was it in a dishonest way or you know the Well listen, they've been proving guilty You know, we keep talking about that the process carry on they've been proving guilty We've had a process for three years And the last 114 you know, 115 judgment The guilty they may get a couple off in an appeal But the guilty but what you must say is the players that they have actually brought in Very few them haven't worked and I look at my own team Liverpool and I'm thinking We have certainly haven't got that success race over the last you know couple of years You think of Elliot Anderson straight away performing Elan Harlan's done a some you know day one check he came in what Just over 12 months ago. He looks to pass straight away So all these players that matches the city by whether it legally or not They've hit the ground running and that's why no matter how many changes they've had over the years It never feels like they didn't they were in transition Because the players who came in have started straight away So you never felt like you missed company or you missed the goaro or you missed avid silver because the next one I came in was fantastic as well and that hasn't been the case with Liverpool since Jürgen Klopp moved on that I mean all over the place in terms of buying and selling. That's the flip side isn't it Karakas we've seen obviously Manchester United spend well over a billion pounds in that same period you've seen Chelsea spend I think over a billion pounds I think other clubs I think Arsenal now are probably getting there over 10 years and City have invested that money incredibly well and their coaching system and their style of playing has been absolutely outstanding. The question mark is and I think this is something that I think me and you probably I don't like the rules so I think I've said this a number of times I think Manchester City should have been allowed to spend more money and more on a funding should have been allowed to go into the club. The problem is that every other club has been abiding by those rules or 99.9% of the other clubs have been abiding by those rules and that's the problem that they have they voted for the rules and then have gone and broken them. I think if they'd actually sort of not voted for the rules and said no we're taking on the establishment here in English football we should be allowed to challenge you because I believe that black what Jack Walker did with Blackburn is is something I believe every owner in the country of football club should have the ability to do which is to go and try and win a Premier League title by investing in their team and in their club so I do believe that but the thing is with cities if they just came out and said no we invested all in money we give ourselves big sponsorship contracts because to be fair we have got connections to those bonds and actually I think we'd all probably sit there and say actually maybe there is a rule change they'll still probably get the book thrown at them but I think there would be more compassion and more empathy I think it's the fact that they keep on denying it and they keep on digging deep a deep a hole and they keep on sort of what we doubling down that's the problem I think isn't it? Yeah I'm the scale of it you know you're sort of almost a billion pound of it but this and I agree with a lot of what you've said there but that's the thing it feels like they're going to keep going and going with it and you know all the headlines tomorrow we're talking about it now it won't be about how fantastic Manchester City would agree it'll be about this league of champ you know we'll keep using that word because the Premier League used everything eight times in the statement or you know the result they put out after the verdict and that's that's the stain on Manchester City right now and that's why I keep saying I think the owners will have to go because even in situations like that where Manchester City have been fantastic the supporters have had a good they've loved it but every headlines tomorrow this is a sham league this is a sham league what does it mean does and this will not go away until we get the very and that's why it's imperative Manchester City and the Premier League get this sorted out ASAP because we can't have this we've got the best league in the world we've got the most exciting league I'm sure people from everywhere around the world were watching today but in the in the in the press box the media room before I'd people from all over the world because of Manchester City's situation but if that wasn't there they'd still all be here to watch Liverpool be Manchester City the whole world's watching and we should be really proud of what we've got here as a Premier League you know I'm delighted I'm still involved and I was a player involved the lighter I'm involved with Skype and talk about the best league the best players but but we've got this these eyes on us about all over the world about is this real is this fake is you know we look at the Italian league maybe your other leagues and always look at anything not quite sure about that that's never been the case here and this this needs to get as a sore and this and everybody saying that you know hearing anything new from me but the quick we get this sore so we can all move on yeah my saying events are still to this day thought about in that negative way aren't they and it is a problem for the Premier League this right now it's a real problem for the Premier League because that's the first Manchester City game that I've done obviously since this came out and it does feel different doesn't it it does feel different there is a but there is a sort of shadow hanging over it there's a dark cloud that you know it's got a load of rain in it and a massive storm and you just don't know when it's going to burst but you know it's coming and it's just you're waiting and it's not good for anybody really and I think that the reality of it is the Premier League as you say is deemed as being sort of greatest thing that we have in this country the fact that everybody around the world loves it but I want me volunteering not I don't get to volunteer we get told what games to do don't we get we get to listen through to us but you know I prefer not to do Manchester City games for the next two or three months being honest with you and that's never been the case for the last 10 12 years because I've always admired them enormously the football that I've seen you mentioned Kevin De Bruyne or a lot and you're Kevin De Bruyne and David Silver and I think of those two football players that you watch and a Guero I absolutely loved watching them plays a joy to watch those football players play absolute joy because you're watching world class in the league and you watch Harlan its world class it really is so you want to see world class players the fact I wish they were in a red shirt and he wishes they were in a Liverpool red shirt is a different matter you still got this admiration and massive professional respect for what you're watching when you see and great things and we're seeing it now and with that game today we should be absolutely forning over Manchester City's 3-0 win at Anfield because that's bloody hard to do but we sat here like thinking like this and by the way won't be on our own everybody own probably after we'll have switched off yeah I'd love to know what people switched off at 2-0 thinking I don't know what's that anymore don't watch them celebrate winning and that's sad for Manchester City fans who have absolutely nothing wrong here you know Manchester City fans have not done an absolute thing wrong and they'll be sort of defiant right now in thinking that ultimately I think that things but you've got a there was a banner over in that far corner I thought it was devastating a generation of supporters have been cheated I thought you know something that will be the mood around the country for 10 15 years they've been cheated and Manchester City they have that appeal and they're confident they're going to win it and if they do then obviously we all sit here and say right okay fair enough but the reality is if they don't and those guilty verdicts are confirmed they've got a massive problem and they don't deal with it the problem I have with it is that it'll go to another appeal and it'll just keep going and going and going and that's where I think it just drags the game in the go to and this will go on it can't be allowed to happen and I know people keep saying oh they're not guilty we got on a pill the ah guilty we we we had a process for over three years 140 out of 115 yes they're allowed to appear they get that that's Manchester City's thing but right now they are guilty we've had the process we've done that we've been really respectful when City've been lifting trophies no one said the words about 115 charges especially at Skyrim really respectful and thought well okay if they get offered you got to keep saying go at it all is the greatest coach of all time these plays are amazing Harland is amazing and I can I find it maybe everybody sees it differently but I find it quite easy to almost separate individual plays not so much of the club in a team because you win things as a team but it doesn't make me think any less avail in Harland what what I just saw today's got nothing to do with charges or how much he was bought for he's just like the best sort of center for or goals got I think I'm probably going to ever see Kevin to bring one of the best players I've ever seen that that will never change in my mind I can almost separate the individual players and think I'll never take that memory out of my mind about how good they were no matter what happens here the team stuff of course yeah because they basically had plays in the squad they wouldn't have had but wouldn't it be all of them you don't mean eh but no it's it just needs some would you repeat myself yeah observe the North American dad 50s great polo collection he enters his vehicle information on Carvana and offer appears in minutes remarkable he squints reads it again smiles and says dang that's a good offer the highest form of approval no haggling no hassle no one called him boss he's still on the couch astonishing sell your car today on Carvana.com pick up these may apply so let's just sort out that that's the box of the game if we may I mean we've talked about the brilliance of city's goals but it did hinge on the groundwork sending off so what's your take on that I mean I've just been looking at all of you shoulder and I don't think either of them a yellow card I think the referee can use common sense on the second one no one that he's booked him but I've just looked again it is it is barely a foul the first one and I remember watching it in real time and I hope I'm right when I say this I think the referee looks at the foul and he's not going to give a yellow card and then I think he sees Anderson down and I'm not saying Anderson died I don't know if there's an awkward form he did stay down for quite a bit and it wasn't almost like a dive I thought he may have just awkwardly felt and I think he gives it on the fact that Ellie Anderson looks at hate it's it I'm absolutely convinced when I looked at a thought there's no way he can give a yellow card it was an awful decision really bad don't want to suffer like Sauer Graves because he's sitting on a win the game but it was such a really good game at that point where it was riveting it was exciting on the edge of your seat it was lacking quality in both boxes but Liverpool were writing that game right it was a really poor decision that from the referee but what I would say I thought Graven Bet was outstanding in the game and this stuff has got to stop now I said this last time Liverpool played writing Graven Bet has to play in the Liverpool team he has to now he hasn't started the season really well with the new manager and he's dropped him early on but he's six foot three he can open his legs he can run he can play he's handling himself in the Premier League he's a Premier League winner he's one of the outstanding players in Liverpool won the Premier League now he's got that situation he's supposed I've now become a centrimid fair play he's got my callison it so he's got numbers but I'm just sorry to say this Florian Vets sign and it's not experiment that's the wrong way it's not working and it hasn't worked so far and Ryan Graven Bet should not be sitting on the bench in Florian Vets playing for Liverpool because I was very critical in Florian Vets on the back of the last game I'll fill up a pool of bone with it on the Jamie Carrigan podcast but it wasn't just on that game it was on his body of work at Liverpool now I know it's only another game later and I actually said that I think he did play particularly well for Club and one of the games scored a couple of goals. But you see that again there. Now on the back of me being really critical. A certain section of Liverpool supporters were a little bit critical of me. Because Liverpool were happy. They'd won the game. It was boom. You go into the international break. And I was seen as putting a negative slants on it. But it was very difficult not to. Now it was seen as being harsh. But a goal that hasn't made a good start so far for Liverpool. And he wasn't particularly good today. Now if we started being critical of him, I think that would be harsh. Because he's been here six weeks. Didn't have a preseason. You'll want a bit more from what you've seen already, but you think I'm gone. Slow down. Give that a bit more time. You know, another couple of months. Get used to it. Get up as fitness. That would be harsh having to go with him right now. It's not harsh. We haven't got to go to Florian VIII right now. He's got to do so much more. And I struggle to think of one game where he's being, he's won Liverpool the game. He's being the man, if you like. And I was thinking about this of, you know, he was brought in to be a star of the Premier League. I felt he could be the Kevin De Bruyne that, that city had that. I think at times got Man City over the line with Liverpool in league title runs. But I think you could make a case for the being 10 or 12 players in Liverpool's Premier League. You know, history Premier League in that position. You've done more than Florian VIII. He's been here for now, 55, 60 games. It's a lot. It's a lot. And I don't see a change in. And when the only thing positive I can take from today is, well, I can take a lot of positives. I thought Liverpool played quite well against a really good team. But Graven Beach has to play. He has to play in that midfield. And the Florian VIII, where he's almost nailed on that he plays every weekend at number 10. He has to stop. It's not. I think Liverpool have given him enough chances. And I think he needs to come out to the same. I said that last time out. And I'm going to say it again, and we're not being too critical. We're not. We've given him a lot of leeway. We've been very patient. Karra, is there just a case of just the sheer volume of money that was paid for him that they almost have to exhaust it and double down on it to the point whereby I have to make it work. I agree with you completely and everything that you've said. It mystifies me watching him sometimes. He's touching a couple of important situations. They really let him down. And I also think I wonder whether he's actually at. Does he. He does recognise it because obviously from where he came from, he did score goals. And he did assist, so he knows the importance of that. But does he really understand how important it is for him to go on score goals and assist goals? When I watch him, he doesn't look like. When you watch the Broner or you watch Bruno Fernandez or you watch some of the plays they're always trying to impact the game decisively in the final third within his assist or a goal. When I watch first, I always think I always feel like I'm watching some form of rondo, some form of what would be a little possession game that hasn't got your line ball that hasn't got goals. I almost feel like I'm playing. I'm almost like he's tapping his there. It's like five aside. Yeah, it's like, come on, you've got to think about two things. Assists and goals and just transfer everything towards. I don't know if there's other parts of the game, but. What you're saying is absolutely spot on and I think plays of that calibre. Let's say Cherokee today. Let's say Bruno Fernandez. Let's think of Cole Palmer. Let's think of all regard, right? Now, I think every time I watch them play, they will nearly score or nearly assist or score or assist. But if they don't, they come very close to doing so in that game. As all stats yesterday, actually, or last night on game of the day on Sky, they had the Chelsea game on. And Cole Palmer had just signed a new contract. And I worked there. It said how many goals and assist he's had in how many games he played with Chelsea. And it was basically, he had a goal or assist every eight times out of ten. Eight times out of ten games that he had a goal or assist. And I thought that's. that's top level. That's fantastic. But, where it never looks like it's going to go. So, if you're thinking of Liverpool and how they set up, they play with a number ten, a striker and two wingers. Now, they play with two out and out wingers who hook the touch line. Now, it's not like Salda Romani was sort of inside forwards. So, you're thinking, if you're number ten's never going to score. And your wingers really hook the touch line and almost looking to go on the outside and facilitate for the other players. You're almost looking at your centre forwards. Is the only place player who can really score. I said Liverpool played well today for a lot of the game. It first half, second half, didn't the game before the Gravenvage red card. But he didn't have a chance. Didn't have a chance in the game. The only one was the Kuma Swam. That was a half chance. If he would have scored, it would have been a great goal. So Liverpool have a real problem this season on the iriola with score and goals and creating chances. And that's what you're born for, the invades for. So, he's not giving you not undefensively. But he's not giving you not and going the other way. And I just, listen, I don't want anyone to sort a pile in on the ladder or have a goal at the lab, but I just think we're justified in saying we need more and we can't wait. And I went back and I said before I think there was players for Liverpool who were deemed not good enough for Liverpool. In terms of going to Italy title or European cup, if you like. You had a real impact in those positions. I think of someone like a Nick Bambi, a Vladimir Smicer, Yossi Benayun, Maxi Rodriguez, Yari Litman. And we've had so many plays in those positions, Katini or Steven Gerard. Steve McMahon, I mean, you've brought more to the table than this lad is right now. And I just think we're at a stage where we can't wait any longer. I think you've just, they've got to be a rebalance of the midfield. And make sure, okay, if we're not going to get goals and assists in there, where we've got legs, we've got height, we've got power. Graven Beach has to play in that team. Just on Barclay because obviously he is only six weeks in. I think we gave votes quite a long time before we said, okay, more critical of everything. That's right. But just looking at Barclay today, particularly in that first half, when he was down here, obviously, against Nunez. And there's a couple of times, isn't he? I think in the top game, a big game. As a right back, you're likely to be run at probably two or three times a half in a big game. Because if you're getting run at more than that, you're usually getting a bit of a doing. So, ordinarily, you're going to have a couple of moments whereby you're facing your winger and you have to win. He really did turn down and reject the one-on-one duel that he directly had against Nunez. He sort of wasn't positive and didn't have that belief. And I don't know where that comes from, really, from Barclay, because you think about the way in which he plays for France. You know, in the world, company gets the ball off of PSG. And he's just so direct, he's rapid. And you think, right, okay, go straight at Nunez. Doesn't matter who it is, it could be the best right back in the world. He's playing against, by the way, but certainly when you're playing against Manchester City and you get that one or two moments, I don't know why he rejected the one-on-one and going directly at Nunez and driving him back into the box and just trying to give him a little bit of a problem. So, that would just concern me and that can't continue. He's going to make sure he comes out of that. So, just simple as this. I have to say, Giggs, he used to say this to me. I'll run at you literally 55, 60 times in training. You'll take it off me 54, 53, 54 times. But the one time he goes, I'll score, and that's it. You're done, your session's ruined. And that's the mentality of a Wingo that will go at someone 10 times in a game. And you might take it off them nine times. But the one time you go past them, you've done, and you've had a bad game as a full backing. I just didn't feel like Barclay had that in the game. So, I'm surprised because I would have thought that his youth is energy, his exuberance, his talent would have just really given him the ability to go and do that. And I don't know why he didn't have that to say, that was the one surprise for me. He can correct that very quickly. He's got games in me. But don't let that drift into two games, three games, four games, eight games. He's got to correctly, he's got to be really direct and keep the confidence of going at defenders one-on-one. Lovely. Unless you have any other business. No? You might want to tee up Monday night football. Carriage is the Coventry Newcastle. Yes. Well, you're going to cover. Steve Cooper is going to do a piece on Coventry. I think he was the last English manager to give a team up in the Premier League. So, obviously, Frank's in there. So, we're going to have a little look at his experience in that situation. I had a good look at Manchester United last night. He did me analysis this morning. So, that's ready, that piece here as well. And we're going to have a look at Brighton and an individual player for Brighton. You know, I think right now, probably alongside Elliot Anderson, is arguably the best player in the Premier League right now. That's a beautiful teaser. Thank you Gary. Thank you Jamie. Well done