Nest Session: Yvette Young on Internet Stalkers

My name is Yvette Young, and I am a musician and songwriter. Who is snuggling into you right now? Deeply asleep, apparently? This is my Chihuahua mix, Bub. He's probably made an appearance in every single video that I've done ever since I got him. I feel like since you've been in our studio, he has pretty much been glued to you the entire time. Yeah, he's definitely a mama's boy. And you might hear some snorting, some farting, some like, you know, visceral sounds. It's not me, it's Bub. We touched on this earlier, but you weren't initially a dog person, right? You're not a born-and-bred dog lover. This is new. Yeah. You know, actually, when I was a kid, I was scared of dogs. And then I was like such a bird person, which is perfect that I'm on the show, actually. I mean, this very bird-based show, and I am very enthusiastic about birds. Where did that come from? You don't bump into many bird people. And if you do, they can be quite freaky. Yes. And I am quite freaky. And as a bird person, I'm allowed to say that. I don't know. I don't know what it is that makes certain people gravitate towards having birds as their favorite animal. But for me, I grew up hatching, incubating lovebirds with my mom. We would get the eggs, and we'd go to the bird show all the time. You'd show your birds? Oh, no. I purchased birds. I have a gender conure. His name's Jekyll. I got him from the bird show, which I know sometimes is like the way that they breed birds is unethical. But these are all small breeders just showcasing their product, which is weird. Well, David, you showed cats. Yeah, I showed cats. That's why he assumed you were on that end of it. Oh, gotcha. Yeah. So my dad worked as a veterinarian when I was growing up. And my dad got obsessed with cats for a while. And we would breed and show cats in cat shows. You got cats and birds at the same time? Yeah. And then we got into birds as well. And so we had a house at one point that was full of cats. Full of birds. And they actually, weirdly, if you train them well, you know, they do coexist pretty well. Like parrots can hold their own. They've got a big beak. They can peck back. Yes. Some of them have like the, you know, small guy syndrome. And I feel like they just really are aggressive, which is funny. So this was like a mother-daughter kind of experience, breeding lovebirds? Yeah. My mom's a huge animal person as well. Like she grew up raising chickens in China. And she even at one point had pet flies. Which is interesting. Sorry, coming in, it's so gay. That's not a thing. Yeah. Same with her. What kind of flies? She had flies in the house is what you're saying. Yeah. No, she had them like in a jar. I never really asked her. This is serial killer behavior. Food for the cat or for the bird? No. She, you know, she loves all living creatures. It's actually really sweet. We shouldn't get stuck into your mom. It's actually like, it's deeply weird, but quite sweet. She just really cares about animals. And I think I inherited that. Like, um, you know, I, I've, when I was a kid, I used to put ladybugs in jars and stuff and like, look at them. I used to catch lizards and just like. Same. I had lizards as a kid. I love lizards. Little skinks. We had them in like a little terrarium. I love skinks. We hatched a skink at one point out of an egg. It was like that scene in Jurassic Park where the velociraptor hatched. It's really special. Yeah. I think I like all the animals that maybe society deems as like gross or like weird or not cuddly. Yeah. Like, you know, this guy's the epitome of gross and not cuddly, but I love him. What does he make of your music and your musical life? I think he hates guitar because every time I plug into an amp, he just like runs away or, you know, maybe it's the vibrations or something about the frequency, the loudness. He doesn't mind acoustic. Like I was working on a bunch of ambient soundbaths and he was, I knew that I was doing good. Cause you just hear like snoring coming from the back and he'd be asleep. Yeah. You're going to play some music for us later on, but how did you get into that world? You know, you're raising lovebirds with your mum. When did music come onto the scene? I was born into playing piano and violin. Like I played in orchestras and my dad is a composer and piano tuner and he plays piano. My mom, actually they met cause they were, my dad was my mom's accordion teacher in communist China. And like, it's weird. Like accordion was one of the only Western instruments that like, you know, Mao allowed at the time cause he liked accordion. Big Weird Al Yankovic fan. Yeah. Yeah. I think Chairman Mao really loved Weird Al. I heard that. But like, yeah, uh, they, they kind of were like, she's got to do an extracurricular. She's got to do piano. I played in two orchestras, played violin, hated it because I was really averse to competition. And I like, just really, really hated it. I hated it. I hated it. I hated it. And I like, just really didn't like, I don't know. I feel like I was really hard on myself as a kid. So every time I messed up or like did a competition, didn't win, it was, it was just a lot, you know? Yeah. Stressful. Yeah. And I don't know if it was up to me, music isn't meant to be enjoyed that way. It's not, I don't think it should be something that you use to like beat other people down. I think it's like a community building thing. I think it can help you heal and like touch people. Um, so yeah, uh, they kind of pushed me to do classical music and I hated it, but, um, I was hell bent on being an artist, um, like an illustrator painter. So I went to UCLA for, uh, fine art and visual art, visual performing arts education. Wow. Became a teacher, briefed in as a tattoo artist. Uh, and then I was helping high schoolers apply for college. Like that was my thing. Um, really, really enjoyed helping them find like their direction in life. And my student was like, do you have Instagram? And I was like, hell no. I was one of those people that like, I don't want like meta stealing my like data and shit, like tinfoil hat. So, um, I was like so anti-social media and she was like, you're super dumb for not being on social media. And she made my account for me. And then I started posting guitar videos, long story short, the pressure of the classical world got me really sick. And I developed, uh, anorexia for like four years on and off. And I was actually pulled out of school and hospitalized because my heart stopped working. Oh, full on. Yeah. You were in it. Yeah. I was like inpatient program, like on a crazy nutrition plan, just, you know, hooked up to an IV. Like, yeah. At what age? Like when was that happening? Like 16, I think is when it started. Holy shit. That's full on. Yeah. That is pretty common because I think, when you're 16, that's like your adolescent years. And that's when you're just going through, you already have hormones going crazy. And then, you know, um, you're kind of just in your formative developmental stage. And I think just, it was so unhealthy for me to be put in such a high pressure situation and, you know, family life wasn't the best. So I ultimately it was a recipe for me to turn to, um, restrictive eating to control something in my life. Um, but that's when I took up guitar and I, I, I fully believe that if I didn't have guitar, something for myself, I, I wouldn't be here cause it, it saved me. It like gave me an outlet. It helped me kind of release, you know, I wasn't the most outspoken person. So I think having instrumental music kind of like brought me out of my shell and helped me express things that words couldn't. And it made me feel like I had agency cause I taught myself something like it was the first thing I ever chose for myself in my life. And that's a big deal. What, what do you think gravitate made you gravitate towards guitar? Was it other music you liked? Was it a friend that played like, why that instrument? I used to sneak out to shows all the time. Like, okay. I say I was anti-social media, except my space. I was like super seeing kids, you know, like That's different. My space was like early on. That was like a different thing. It was more like a social thing. Like it's sort of algorithm based. Like, I remember following so many bands on my space and I would like see that they were playing a show at some teen rec center and I would like sneak out. Um, and I always really thought that was cool. I'm like, Oh my God, you get to like travel and play music with your friends. So naive. Cause like a lot of bands, I don't think people are actually like friends sometimes, you know, it's just like a job, but yeah, you know, I wanted to do that. And it was this really cool way for me to make friends outside of high school. Cause I think people in my high school, I found it kind of difficult. Yeah. To relate to, um, you know, everyone was like a really good kid and I was kind of like into, you know, tattoos and, and, Oh, hello. Was that a little snore just then? Or, uh, That was some kind of grunt snore combo. What part of the country were you when this was happening? San Jose. Yeah. Bay area. Um, so I would just like meet up with random scene kids on the internet, which is in retrospect, pretty dangerous. Cause like, you know, I just meet these people on the internet and I don't know anything about them and I would sneak out to shows. And I guess at some point I was like, Oh, I really like, you know, one of the first things I did was I was like, things i ever learned don't hate creed succeed from the edge i don't get me started i'm legitimately rally a massive new year's eve a couple of years ago i was in vegas watching creed bring the new year in easy to hate but they have some legitimate bangers the guitar riffs are great i feel like honestly the guitarist is amazing honestly it became cool to hate on creed and i think that's why everyone could not agree more we did an entire episode based on the fact that it was like cool to hate creed i need to watch this episode yeah it's creed is very close to my heart yeah yeah i love this is blowing my mind but rock honestly but rock is like so sick i could not agree more it's weird the number of things we have in common at the moment like the birds lizards and yeah all the beast stuff birds but rock it's like a dream uh okay so you loved creed is what cut you into guitar is what you're saying obsessed with that riff from 60 from the edge then i learned um scott was your muse scott was my muse well i guess chimanti right like yeah yeah um and then i got into like stained i told you butt rock was my life i've been to stain i've been to stain shows yeah a lot of that music has a big audience in new zealand like we love because it's sort of bogan rock just like big anthems and big riffs but yeah i've been to stain shows okay don't you hear rob laughing there's another one i love chevelle oh i over my head i've never heard of chevelle i'm sorry about chevelle yeah do you like chevelle fill me in what is your what is chevelle oh my god send the pain below banger the red banger yeah we're gonna listen to some okay no i'm noting it down i'm excited for this um but yeah i taught myself stand uh creed um radiohead i learned paranoid android um and yeah and then i discovered uh bands like american football i was it's such a funny jump honestly to go from like creed to american football but um they introduced me bands like them and toe introduced me to alternate tunings and then i was like wait a minute like i can write music for myself like this and so kind of just started going off and doing my own thing and so and at some point you had the student come in and be like you're really good at this guitar stuff and then you're like oh my god i'm like oh my god i'm like oh my god i'm you should start posting some videos yeah i mean she was just like you need to have a social media presence if you want to be like you know if you want to be in tune with young people so i i got the uh instagram and facebook and the way i got endorsements was actually i posted like a video of myself playing and at the time i was so self-conscious of the fact that i was a girl because i think in like my genre you know people can see me as a girl and i was like oh my god i'm like oh my god i'm like oh my god i'm like oh my god i'm like oh my god i'm like oh my god i'm like oh my god i'm like oh my god i'm like oh my god kind of cruel to women and so i cut off my head in the video frame so no one could tell i was a girl and i wore like a big frumpy sweater and i like did some like tapping stuff and then it like blew up so um yeah i think i used to be really afraid of like showing myself online because i think i felt self-conscious and afraid of just you know people being assholes because i know it completely makes sense like you're a woman online and also you're someone that wasn't heavily on social media and doing it for the first time yeah posting yourself to camera playing it's like quite a bold thing to do it takes guts to put yourself out there that's a good segue i guess into the topic today we try in this show to sort of talk about like specifically sort of sort of i guess odd bits of like american culture and you i don't know if your story sort of segues into this but you were sort of stalked at some point yeah and i'm very because i i hear sort of murmurings about this happening to people i've never had a friend that's this has happened to but i also feel like america is kind of like i know i'm just curious what how your story unfolds in this country i know so many of my peers who have issues with someone becoming like fixated on them and um just you know a lot of people live online and are very parasocial in the way they interact with people like what from what i understand sometimes you just when you're are is this boring you he's like snoring i don't know i can't hear the snoring but i just see a dog that is so passed out it's not funny it's like i've heard this story before yeah like bored boring i think yeah people stop viewing you as a human and start viewing you as like an object to be assessed and critiqued and like i think one of the most jarring things for me is uh as i've you know become shifted into like a public figure sort of person is how much of myself to really put out because i'm an open book i'm like a golden retriever person i will like let anyone in my house like you know yeah since i've experienced some some very unique things i've kind of like shut down but i also don't want to fully shut down because i think what makes my art like i don't know what what makes art really special is your ability to like be vulnerable and to like be open and be real you're authentic you're being you yeah i really could not do this like going back to the whole eating disorder thing like music is one of the only things i have for myself these days and it's like i refuse to pander or cater to anyone else because i did that when i was yeah i'm such a people pleaser in every other way but music for me is like the only thing where i'm like i have to do it on my terms in my way and yeah it's been kind of jarring to figure out like oh i i probably can't like put two too much of myself out there but i still want to be real like i don't want to do a curated thing i would quit yeah yeah you know what point did you stay tuned for more flightless bird we'll be right back after a word from our sponsors what point did you get red flags that something had gone awry as far as one of your fans or someone that's just watching likes your your fans or someone that's just watching likes your your instagram page your playing well i'll just tell you guys about the worst one um you know i think if you're a girl on the internet first of all if you are a person on the internet people don't realize that like anyone can see you and then if they have some kind of psychosis they can develop a narrative about you and like become obsessed with you you don't even have to be a celebrity anything and that's like i think i used to think like oh only people like britney spears you know or like i don't know eminem or something like your giant yeah like only those people deal with this but no if you are any size on the internet you will you can attract the crazies i think there's like parents that their kids online need to know about as well like younger kids who want to be tiktok famous or something like i wish that was more of a conversation that happened so you know i get the whole smorgasbord of things that i think other girls get like uh impregnation fetish dms um they're very colorful what is that like what do you mean by that people like saying that like they want to like so crazy like people just telling me really graphic fantasies about like how they want to impregnate me and like right you know it's very rapey um like that kind of stuff there's a guy who dms me all the time um either jacking off or like holding a sword like naked like it's insane um and i'm talking about this because honestly i feel desensitized to it yeah no but it is that thing like it's madness and it's fine it is that thing about being a woman online because i don't think males messaging me but it's never like that you don't get girls with swords nude like i don't i don't it's never happened you can invite it to three ways oh i'm invited to a three-way once hell yeah but no but it's such a different experience obviously being a woman online and just people targeting with that shit okay so you're getting this stuff it's like go away yeah they either hate you or love you and you start to realize that love and hate and obsession they're all from the same like intense love i'm not talking about like oh i love my you know friends i love my family like no this kind of like obsessive obsessive love it's such a dangerous precarious place to be i try not to consider it but i do think about like if someone's like obsessively adoring you the moment you do something that they don't approve of um they can flip on you and you become their object of like hate right that's what it's what you went back to saying that they're not viewing you as a person you're like this perceived thing that they put all that shit onto yeah someone who really loves you they will accept your autonomy and accept that you are not going to be aligned with their idealized perception or vision of you in their head yeah because you're a human yeah you're human so this guy he had been sending me really crazy dms for maybe two years and i just kind of ignored it um but one day he sent something he started getting kind of racist you know and i was like i think i was in a bad headspace and i was like yo i can't deal with this today so i blocked him everyone was like you should block him yeah but reasonable i'm not gonna tell people what to do but i really think it's a bad idea to block stalkers and crazy people because in their insanity they tell you their every move so as soon as i blocked him He started being like, you cut off contact to me. I'm going to come to you. Some sort of engagement. and validation of what he has been doing. Yeah, so he looked at my address and he, like, sent me a screenshot of my house from, like, a satellite picture and then he, like, sent me an AR-15 and he's like, this is for you. What? A picture of a gun and knives and stuff. At the same time, like, this was a guy who, in addition to sending me, like, all these weapons and hateful things, he was also, like, super sexual. Like, I think he had an Asian fetish. That's another really, like, gross, weird thing that I think, you know, people who are Asian do with is, like, people fetishizing them. But, yeah, he sent me all these weapons and stuff and I did not see because I had him blocked. Yeah, it's in your other folder. Yeah, and I remember thinking, like, oh, this guy is, like, nuts. One day, I wake up to someone yelling at my mom and I thought I was having a bad dream. Like, I was like, oh. Or I thought it was, like, a domestic quarrel next door from the neighbors. And then I was like, wait, that's my mom's voice. And I started, like, snapping into it because I had just woken up and then I hear my dad come in and my dad ran in and he was like, do you know this guy? Oh, God. Eric. His name's Eric. Do you know this guy, Eric? And I was, like, trying to put two and two together. I was like, oh, my God, Eric. I was like, the stop. I couldn't believe that he was literally at my house. Yeah. And my dad called. The police. Because that's also, that's terrifying because there's a level of discomfort from online interactions. Yes. But when that's very different to someone being at your house, you know, that's, like, a crazy level of Obsession. Obsession. So what had happened was he, like, had been camping out in our bush. We saw on our ring camera. He had been camping out in our bushes studying, like, my activities. So he memorized when, like, what my car looks like when I'm out of the house, I'm in the house. And he, like, lived outside. And this happened, like, around 4 or 5 a.m. He thought, luckily, the way my house is set up is I have a room. I don't live there anymore. But, like, I have a room. My dad has a room. My mom has, like, a separate room. So he actually went to the side, saw the first window, which happened to be my mom's room. It just broke in the window. And, like, just, it's crazy because I feel like if it had been my room, it would have been much worse. But he kind of got a scare. Because it's like, wait, that's not her. That's, like, an older Asian lady. This is, like, terrifying shit. How long was he living in the bushes? I think, like, four days or something. When we called the police, they arrested him. He hadn't seen me at this point. Like, I was hidden away. He only saw my mom and my dad. I'll never forget his, like, haunting. I'll never forget him being in the police car seeing me for the first time. Like, his eyes. It sounds like a horror movie, but, like, bulged out of his head. He was, like, screaming, and he got, like, veins in his neck from screaming. Like, just horrifying. And I remember that day, they were like, so you're under, the police were like, first of all, it's so annoying to deal with police. They were like, oh, is he, like, a boyfriend or something? I don't know. Like, that feels misogynistic to me to assume that, like, I did something. No, it's something that you have done. How old are you at this point? This happened, like, maybe, three years ago? Four years ago? Something like that. So the cops are instantly like, what did you do to, like, make this happen? Instigate this. Yeah. And they kept, like, it was so infuriating because the cops were like, oh, like, is he, like, an ex or something that you, like, did something to? I'm like, no. Like, I've never interacted with this dude once. I've literally haven't spoken a single word. It's been, like, a one-sided conversation. And here's when it, it was frustrating because because I had blocked him, I, they were like, we need more evidence that, even though we have two years of him DMing you nonstop, messaging you crazy stuff, crazy religious stuff, like, nonstop, we need more evidence that he's, like, you know, intent, there's an intent to harm. So I'm like, okay, well, I have an AR-15 picture here. I have, like, pictures of knives. He also left a letter at my house saying that he invited me on a date, to have noodles and hot pot, but he was implying that we were going to eat people meat. So he's, like, not, like, Yeah, no, it's off the rails. I have pictures of all this. Like, I have the ring camera footage. I have the letter. I have, like, the everything. Um, but the police were like, you have 48 hours. He's an emergency protective order. But you have 48 hours because that's the, that's the time he's going to spend in jail, two days, to get a restraining order. And I had never gotten a restraining order in my life. I never had no experience with, like, the justice system. Yeah, how to begin to file something like that or do the paperwork correctly or where to begin. Yeah, so a big bummer is that the court is only open 9:00 to 5:00. So if you have a job, like, good luck. You have to take time off. And that's money that you're going to lose to have to deal with. This is what I learned is that if you are a victim of some kind of stalking crime or a violent crime, like, the burden is on you to supply proof. Oh, I'm sorry, to supply proof and to protect yourself. Because by default, they're more likely to protect the stalker person, actually. So this resonates in New Zealand at the moment. This has been a big topic of discussion in a very similar way to everything you're saying, where there's just nothing you can really, there are little things you can do, but essentially the favor all seems to be with the stalker as opposed to the victim. Because the cops are continuously like, "But what do they do?" And I'm not going to lie, like, there are people who abuse the system and, like, call, you know. But even a tiny, tiny little percentage. It's already traumatizing realizing that a guy who had been, like, threatening you with sexual violence for, like, two years, finally showed up at your house, assaulted your mom, broke in, had been camping out. Like, that's already traumatic enough, and I'm, like, processing this. But all of a sudden, I have to, like, take time off work and then go to the courthouse. And a restraining order costs money, so I had to pay for it. And then I had to go back and review and re-visit -- like, I had been just ignoring the emails because they're honestly disgusting to read. And I had to go back and screenshot everything and then compile evidence of the things and create, like, a presentation, almost. You basically got two days of just going through this horrific shit. Yeah. And it's, like, a full-time job to, like, compile all this. So I bring it to the courthouse. They can either accept or deny your restraining order. Mine was accepted. -Yay. -Good. Good. In the 48 hours that he was supposed to be in jail, they released him early. So they were, like -- it's almost like you have 48 hours to protect yourself. "Psyche! He's out!" And so guess what he did? Come back. -Back to the house. -That's actually when he gave me the letter. As the -- I'm now remembering the sequence of events. Is that -- when he came back is when the letter happened? No, you -- "Let me take you out on a date." -Yeah. -Jesus. So I, like, was, like, "I have a restraining order now." And the police were, like, "Actually, like, we need, um, to get him --" I think something happened where they didn't have him sign something. So because they were lacking his signature, they couldn't arrest him for coming. Like, they were, like, "He needs to come back." I know he came here once, but technically the first time he came didn't count 'cause we forgot to have him sign a piece of paper. So it's so bureaucratic and, like, insane -- and, like, inhuman, actually, like, the way they dealt with him. It's also, like, terrifying 'cause you've got this guy out that you know what he's done before. And the cops are essentially saying, "We can't do anything until he crosses some sort of line again." -And signs a piece of paper. -Yeah. He didn't sign the paper, so he came back, left the letter once. They're like, "That's not enough proof. Like, you need to --" "Before we arrest him for violating your restraining order, he needs to come back one more time." And I was like, "Okay, well, he is." So he actually wandered around my neighborhood, and, um, me and a friend at the time followed him. And we were telling the police, like, "He's right there. Like, can you just arrest him?" "Can you arrest him for being in my -- on my lawn or, like, you know?" And they were like, "Well, no. Like, he needs to demonstrate violent intent or, like --" She needs to leap through the fucking window again before they can do something. Well, essentially, one of the female cops at this point got really upset. And she's like -- And also, they kept on calling him my ex-boyfriend, -which was really -- -Everything about this is so infuriating. I know. I got -- And she got mad. She's like, "It's not an ex-boyfriend." She's like, "Like, when can we arrest this guy?" She's like, "I don't know. I don't know. I don't know what's going on." She's like, "I don't know. I don't know what's going on. I don't know what's going on." She's like, "I don't know what's going on. I don't know what's going on." Yeah, what I learned about this is there's so much protocol that has to be obeyed, and I understand why protocol is in place, but it is so inefficient, so crazy. I feel like if we had just done, like, this vigilante style and, like, you know, apprehended him with handcuffs on the street, it would have been so much quicker. Yeah, whacked him with a bat in the butt a few times. Yeah. It's been like, get the fuck out of here. Maybe not the butt. Yeah, and so we actually got reprimanded for following him. They were like, you can't do that. You don't know, like, you're not allowed to stalk him, like, essentially. So, and so we gave up. We were like, you know what? He's, like, around the neighborhood, but I feel like he's going to come back. So, I went to a birthday party, and while I was at dinner, my mom calls me, and my mom was like, he's back. And essentially, they were installing a camera. he surprised my mom from behind her I'm lucky that my mom is really good at de-escalating so she didn't get hurt but that's when I called the police and I was just like yo he's back and so then they were able to well they lost him he ran away because it took too long and then they found him and they you know arrested him and um just put him in jail and then uh oh I forgot another detail of it sorry it's like all coming back to me another detail of this is I was in order to serve the restraining order I had to figure out his location so there are two jails that he could have been at um during that 48 hour period of time and when you call the jail number the line doesn't work so I couldn't look up which jail he's at thus I could not give him this restraining order because it's on you to give him the restraining order else it doesn't count yes I have to serve it to him physically or hire someone to which costs money so I was able to give it to him because he showed up and that's how like you know um he was served he finally got put away in jail I was like uh the DA called me at this point and there's a new DA now and he's been great but at the time whoever was in office was like sorry we like dropped the ball on this uh I just want to know if there was going to be coverage of any form because uh we noticed that you're a public figure and you're like a musician like they're starting to like cover their butts about any kind of fallout you can send them a link to this podcast now I know right they were like is there going to be coverage about this because we want to make sure we're doing our job I got angry I got so angry because I was just like it shouldn't matter who I am like no no they're essentially coming to you being like we don't really want to do anything about this but if you're going to talk shit about this we will spring into action yes it felt like that and then I was like what do you recommend I do in this situation he's like stay vigilant um you know um I don't know I don't know I don't know uh get cameras I'm like have that and he's like get a dog this guy's not gonna I'm sorry he like doesn't even bark when people come over honestly he's like come in like you know wait stay tuned for more flightless bird we'll be right back after a word from our sponsors so how did this kind of so how did this kind of so how did this kind of resolve what does it feel resolved like this guy has been punished is he how do you feel about this today like what is happening he went to jail um I couldn't find information on him because they were like oh that's private so I'm just like are you kidding me like he could come to my house but I can't find out like what how long he's gonna serve like they're like that is just confidential information and then judge Judy hit me up like um in a letter I have the letter so there's a lot of this a lot going on the letter I'm gonna pull it up right now uh-huh people know I'm not full of shit you're on judge Judy's production radar here you go okay I'm looking I'm looking at this email it is a judge Judy letterhead uh I love that it starts with no doubt you've heard of the famous judge Judith that's the contentization of America right like so they have found your case and they want you on the show yes and they want me to appear with a guy who tried to kill me and I'm gonna show who has mental illness like he is schizophrenic I think it's so asinine to like try to make a show out of someone's very severe mental illness and to assume that I want to be in a room with him they're pushing that you can make some money yeah they said that um I'll make money from it guaranteed I said no absolutely not that's the most sort of American sort of twist you could imagine in a story like this like for judge you just suddenly like rear up yes I was already traumatized and then seeing her logo like pop up on a letter and I was like anyone at home is just her face and the name and the name of the show yeah so in the meantime that happened then I think I had like a good year of peace and then so unfortunately part of my job as a musician is my location is public I'm playing here tonight come next week I'm gonna be here seven o'clock and you get people like hanging around the bus you get people like like sneaking into green rooms and stuff like there are very very committed people and I called my uh the person who assigned to my case um there are resources by the way like if you are the victim of a stalker you can there's like someone who's I think they're called like the the victims unit and they call you and they suggest like you get a hotel and um they will give you a stipend to buy cameras but again it's like it is it just requires so much work because you have to like you know make a whole case and while you're fleeing for your life like you don't really have time to like put together like a document about this so I just out of pocket paid for all this stuff but yeah I called the person who assigned to my case and I was just like hey like is the restraining order still valid and they're like oh well no it's just in California so every state I'm in I have to get a new restraining order like that is crazy this guy flew from Texas so yeah you know I was like that's kind of ass that this doesn't apply when I'm in Colorado or when I'm in New York or no to cover yourself the United States it's 50 different restraining orders yeah so I was like what should I do if he shows up and they're like well call the police and then you can mention that a restraining order but then you have to like open a new what I'm like I don't have time like I am just like at a show you're trying to do sound check and sort out your band yeah and not to be morbid but and you know I don't want to like fear monger or whatever but there's been cases of people like sneaking in guns to shows and like just shooting you know so many people we're in America yeah as well yeah these are real fears it's not more but I think it's like a practical way to think about things yeah yeah and you know I'm not at a level where I can afford like a bodyguard or security or anything and you know quite frankly I I enjoy interacting with my fans like part of my whole thing is like you know I got into guitar because it saved my life and helped me out of a depression and an eating disorder and I like being able to like have a connection to the people who support my music and most of the people that support your music will be lovely great people and you've just got a few people in here that are now playing in your mind making you assess how you can publicly meet people at shows and that kind of thing yeah and you know I started freaking out again because he started sending me violent sexual emails and he started saying that he was he literally um I mean I'm sure I could dig for it if I look but he had an email being like I I'm not going to do that follow asian girls now um I like follow them and I hide in bushes and um to suppress my urges I jack off into a plastic bag so I don't do anything to them I showed this to the police I was like is this enough for you to arrest him again because they let him like at this point I figured out that they let him out they didn't tell me they were supposed to tell me and I can't look up if he's still incarcerated because that's private apparently um so yeah at this point he had been let out he was telling me this stuff and I was like can you arrest him again like is saying that you're jacking off following girls in a plastic bag like is that enough and they're like well like you know it's just like him saying it like we didn't catch him doing like oh so are you saying as of today this person is still in he's still online and he's a presence I'll get to current because he is out right now but at the time um I was really annoyed because he's technically breaking the no contact part of the conversation and I was like I don't know what to do I don't know what to do I don't have the restraining order in the cal in California by emailing me all this stuff and I'm like hey where is he and they're like oh we actually like lost I don't know they like lost his location or something I don't know where he is they're like you need to open a new case to um get him arrested again because the old case for some reason didn't apply anymore so he had been sending me videos of him jacking off and in the jack off video he has an ankle monitor like balls and shaft right here but like ankle monitor like in the foreground and like I was like guys he has an ankle monitor like and so I submitted like I I took great joy in sending the police 10 videos of some dude jacking off yeah you watch this fuckers yeah I'm like you say there's no evidence like here you go enjoy so they were like oh um I I had to fight so hard to make a case but they the d there's a new d.a. who called me and he's like he's been arrested again so like because he's been arrested again because he broke the no contact thing he's in jail but he's in a special program for people with mental illness and you know what I I do think that people who have some kind of mental illness like they're a victim of the system and they should be getting treatment and help but in America it's really expensive and difficult to do that and there are a lot of people you know who have undiagnosed mental conditions who ultimately do crime and I don't think that they should be necessarily treated the exact same as someone who has like violent ill intent it's a very empathetic response I know yeah it is I mean that's the kindest possible but it's also because you want him to get help so he leaves you the fuck alone yeah and leaves other people and you don't see the system helping prevent him from doing it help him stop the urges to keep doing it ultimately we want him to be a functioning productive member of society right that's like the best case scenario yeah as he snaps out of his you know jack off psychosis and he's like oh my god I've been you know I've been in a lot of trouble I've been in a lot of trouble I've been in a lot of trouble I should go to horny jail for like, you know, like. - Yeah. a new DA called me and he was like, I'm so sorry about this. And he's like, we're going to do everything we can to keep him in jail this time. But he's like, I'm going to level with you that it is the way that the system works in America is they're not incentivized to keep people in jail because it's expensive. So they're like, he's probably going to be let out and he's probably going to be given a person to monitor him. And I got to give props to this guy, the new DA. He was very thorough in explaining to me what would happen. And he's like, I'm going to appear in court with him to try to, I'm going to make a case to keep him in jail. And he's like, I agree with you that he should be kept locked up because this is a dangerous guy, but there's a huge chance that he will be ultimately let go at some point. So I wrote a statement. I wrote my persuasive case as to why. And it probably feels good to have someone that feels like they get it and they're on your side. That's a wonderful thing. Yeah, someone who isn't going to call him my ex-boyfriend. That understands what is actually happening here. Yeah. And he was like, do you have tours coming up and things like that? So he actually cared. He kept me updated. He went to, he's like, do you want to appear in court? I'm like, fuck no. Like, I don't want to see this guy, especially after the bulging. I like, I can't erase that from my memory. It was insane. Ultimately he was let out. And currently, as I know to this day, he is on a program, but I've had no contact from him. Good. It's very, very difficult when you're in like a psychiatric, it's very easy for people to make progress because they're being forced medicine. They're getting help and they can show signs of becoming like a sentient, like regular person. But when you get let out of the inpatient thing, you can't force an adult to take meds. So most of the time they just end up reoffending. I'm so sorry all this happened. It's full on for you, for your parents, like for your mom having to do it, like all of you, it's absolutely insane. It's insane. I felt guilt because I was like, my parents didn't sign up for this crazy guy to come over. And like, I don't want them to have to deal with, like, it could have been really bad. Like it could have completely gone out in a million other ways. Yeah, completely. It's still pretty awful though. You know, that's still incredibly terrifying and violating. Honestly, I'm very annoyed at how in America your information is just sold to people in public. Oh, I mean the whole data broker thing is just insane. That whole scene. Yeah. You can find someone here easily. Yeah. I think doxing is one of the worst things you can do to people because like then they have to literally move because crazy people. I think, you know, I think internet cultures change a lot since those MySpace days when I think things were a lot more, you know, I made a lot of friends on MySpace on early message boards and had, I was 13 going around to some dude's house to pick up some like VHS of live footage. It was all fine. Yeah. But it's advanced to the point today where there's so many pitfalls. It's just like, and you've got the worst case example of that. Yeah. I pay for a service now to erase my information from every time you order something online and put your shipping address like that gets put in a database. Like they can sell your information. The thing I buy like just scrubs every day, but it's still up to me to keep it updated. You know, has this detracted from your joy of being able to like, because a big like you are an amazing musician and you share what you do in your music and how you do it and you're sharing tricks and gear. Has it changed your enjoyment of that or has it just changed your relationship with it slightly? I'm going to be very real. I'm afraid of people at this point. Like I, I mean, I am an introvert already and that's why I never wanted to be on social media in the first place. I'm grateful to it. It changed my life. Like, you know, I'm not, I'm not going to be like, I mean, I am a bit of a doomer in that. I think dead internet theory is real. And I think it's like dividing us and it's just very dark the way the internet has evolved. But, you know, initially it, I owe my career to people believing in me because I, I had the, you know, the, the, the, that one viral video and stuff. And, um, yeah, it's like a bittersweet thing for me, but these days I think I've like, another part of being a public figure is like, I miss being able to like, just do things for myself without everyone scrutinizing. My every move. And again, I think part of being a woman is you get in cells and stuff like coming at you. And, um, yeah, I'm a very sensitive person. I would be lying to say that it doesn't get to me. It doesn't hurt my feelings when someone who's never met me in my life writes a three page essay about why I suck and why I'm like a bitch or why I like diagnosing me with all the mental issues, like writing a three paragraph essay about me, like, you know, diving into my family life. And it just feels, it is hurtful because I think I got into music because it saved my life. Guitar. I am so grateful to, um, the instrument for giving me self-esteem, helping me find agency. Um, I fully love spreading the joy of music as therapy. You know, it got me out of my I think it helps so many people. I just want to help people. And it like is so frustrating and hurtful that like, even though I try to put 100% good into what I do, I'm a human. I'm not perfect. I'll make mistakes, but people just like latch on. It's almost like they're wired to want to find that one thing wrong with you. And then just like create drama out of it. And doesn't help that the algorithm these days, like really loves turmoil and loves divisiveness. And loves anger. And that is what meta wants to feed you. They want to make you mad. They want to make you gossip. They want to got drama is like number one, like in terms of Rob and I were talking about this earlier on, just in regards to engagement is all based on drama. And once that discussion, once someone posts something a bit controversial under a post, the arguments that go on for 30 comments that draws people in some of them are bots, literally. Yeah. I know, but it's like, it's asinine that we found a way to monetize people's anger and keep us like hateful. And to encourage it. Yeah. I was talking to a guy from Singapore the other day. He said that in Asia, there's people you hire to literally leave like hateful comments on, on like celebrities videos to create engagement and drama coming in. Yeah. And honestly, if you are someone who profits off of like online drama and you make your money off of getting clicks to ruin someone's life, like you are part of the problem, you're a bad person and you should be like ashamed of yourself because I think the world doesn't need that. Like we already, like I find my mental health to have deteriorated so much since I've been a person on the internet. And it's like, you know, I remember the days where I was in a classroom teaching kids. Yeah. I had problems, but I was like, I didn't have this like self-consciousness and like fear of engaging with an everyday person. But another thing is like the craziest people are the loudest, you know, the most negative people are the loudest and. And it feels like there's so many more of them than there are because they are so fucking loud. Yes. And like, you know, I've talked to therapists and they're like, why don't you just like get offline? I'm like, it's my job. It's your job. I know that's the, I think you're speaking to so many things that so many people are reckoning with at the moment. Yeah. Cause it's not just as simple as like, turn off your phone, get off the internet. Cause no, to get people to find your work and there's so much good to it still, you have to be online. It's nothing as simple in this. And I think you're navigating that. Yeah. Musicians, artists, we all have to wear so many hats these days, like in the 80s and stuff, like you just record a bad-ass song. You can go on a heroin bender, like who cares? Like, but no, now you have to like make content. You have to like brand yourself. You have to like make music, maybe record the music, uh, yourself too. If you don't want to pay a bajillion dollars for like a studio, um, market yourself. Like there's just so many, and you have to be online, like putting yourself out there, you know? Like there's so many hats that you have to wear. And ultimately I think it dilutes the quality of your work because you're having to think about so many things. And then you have this like fear of insane people. I wish I was more thick skin, to be honest. I think honestly, you coming here and talking, I think you are way more thick skin than you think you are. Like the way you can relate to the stuff and even laugh at things a little bit. I think you're way more thick skin than you think you are. Most people couldn't survive that. This is what you've just described is so fucking full on. I've never been through it. I don't think you've been through anything like that. It's insane. I almost quit. You create such beautiful stuff. You're going to play some of it soon. And it's so annoying that this negative shit has to like fill so much of your brain when you're just making really beautiful music. Yeah. I realized also people can lie and make up a lie and like put it, like, I know that sounds so stupid, but like I had this one guy one time, all I did was give him a ticket to a music convention. Cause I was like, oh, that sounds so stupid. But like, I had this one guy one time, all he was like, oh, you don't have a ticket. Like, here you go. I was trying to be generous. And then I found out the whole day he had been photographing me like secretly. And then I found out that he made a secret account where he, um, says that we're dating. And then he contacted all of my friends and said that he was like someone I had, I was dating and I like slept with. And I like, um, they were like, Yvette won't talk to me. Can you please get her to talk to me? And all my friends are like, who is this guy? You know? And you're like, no, it is someone that I did a ticket cause he didn't have a ticket. Yeah. And that's what it flips around to, which goes for that thing you said earlier. like it's hard to trust people that's why because of shit like that on one hand i i really enjoy the ability to like give people a ticket or like you know just help someone out but but it you know one bad apple just kind of ruins it for everyone because i think a lot of artists are actually people get mad at artists for being a little like guarded and like you know not the most open and i think if they had a reason why they would i also think it is you know we've had a lot of guys on the show playing music and i think they won't it is such a gendered problem like it's insane as your dog snores no but it is like that so i think that's something to keep in mind because i think there is some people sort of understand how different it is to be a woman online over a man it's such a different situation and i think you speak to that so but you get to the heart of that yeah no one should have to deal with that shit it's crazy my guy friends they'll deal with people saying that like they have their baby and stuff and it'll be like a crazy person who's like oh you impregnated me spiritually and like you know that kind of stuff but like i've heard people get that too why is that so common i don't know there is like a weird internet psychosis i have things that sort of people latch on to at times yeah if people listening to this want to listen to your music this beautiful stuff you make like how do you prefer people to listen to define your work yeah we have we have good audience good people watching we honestly one thing we're very lucky with we have good we have good people we're very lucky at the moment band camp is the best way to support artists directly spotify pays pennies but if you must stream apple music spotify i think band camp doesn't get talked about enough and it's if you haven't used band camp it's uh you can choose what you give to an artist often for an album or for merch and it's a way and it goes so much it goes to them and if you want to support an artist band camp is one of the best things you can possibly do besides going on tour with tour and buying a ticket and buying a t-shirt yeah yeah where i feel like i get support the most is people buying merch people come into shows and people supporting band camp so and i like band camp because you actually get to own the thing like you download the audio file and that's right down the lammoth that lord of the rings death metal project that i love so much and not to be like nerdy or whatever but you know the streaming platforms all compress the audio to in a really unnatural way and you know and band clip and band camp i can't talk if you're an audiophile you can download a flack and you can hear the song in its purest most unadulterated uncompressed form um as part of the segment and because i'm greedy i like to taste different all-american snacks and people bring him food yeah and i i he had brought something in for us to digest i love cornbread i like a lot of southern food even though i was born in california i feel like cornbread is just very like hearty i haven't had a lot of cornbread and it's something you don't get in new zealand at all what is it that you don't get in new zealand at all what is corn like what is cornbread as a food like what it's like bread made of corn i don't know you guys grow corn yeah but we don't have bread like we eat corn on a cob okay we'll put it in a salad or something but we're not making bread out of it like what what do you compare it to for someone that's never had a piece of cornbread like what is it like honestly i love the texture of it it's very dense isn't it cornbread it can't be yeah it can be fluffy it can be dense it can be sweet it can be savory um i i didn't get a chance to get it but with a with a little hit of hot honey oof oh and the cornbread i made uh i just used cornmeal flour butter i put corn kernels in it some people don't like that but i like the just a bit of texture in there a bit of texture okay i was gonna make strawberry matcha cornbread because i'm asian and matcha you know i was like oh how can i make this like more of my culture but i didn't because i just in case you don't like it's okay i mean rob is a big i mean matcha is something that is um it's invading it's la it's everywhere it's just begun to sink into new zealand now matcha is sort of reaching new zealand and being a thing what's like a like a super quintessential new zealand food so our main meat pie yeah meat pie so like a pastry meat pie mince and cheese pie right like an australian meat pie but they call it a new zealand but better a sausage roll and our main drink we're really proud of our like milky coffees so a flat white a very milky coffee is very popular sounds great but yeah we have very like we like um we like our meat pies which is something i miss here in america because all your pies are just fucking sweet like here's an apple pie here's a boysenberry pie have you ever been to new zealand um no i i would love to because my like i told you earlier my dream is to caress a kiwi bird you have a kiwi tattoo i do have a tattoo right here i'm covered in birds oh my god like yeah i have like a huge parrot all right it's like for like leg fetish you're an absolute bird freak i am a bird freak rob it's so nice usually rob's like i'm like fuck that's cool huge macaw parrot thing so oh my and we didn't even get into the fact that you tattoo us for a period as well oh yeah that was so much briefly okay we need to eat cornbread let's have cornbread let's dig in um i brought strawberry preserves um just so you can like strawberry jam yeah okay does he eat cornbread he eats everything this is great it's a great texture this is a really sweet one which i approve of because i have a massive sweet tooth i'm glad you like it did you get is it good for you cornbread it's got vegetables and it's got corn in there it's not good for you damn it carrot cake's not good for you either damn it we're just trying to find like something delicious but also healthy hard to find yeah this is really good that's a good cornbread thank you so much i'm glad you like oh my god who taught you how to make it was a you recipe or did it was a sort of passed on from parents i looked up a recipe once and i just like kind of tweak it i love cooking that's like i think aside from music i love visual art painting yeah went to art school i love cooking it feels to me the same as like making a song that's enough so yeah one day i would my dream is to launch a plant-based cookbook so we'll have you back when you do that thank you um what are you gonna play for us the first song i'm gonna play i think i'll do one of my solo projects um sorry one of my solo songs it's called always i've been touring in a band for a while and honestly i didn't even get into it but it's been it's been so amazing in some ways i don't take it for granted but it has been very traumatic in a lot of other ways you know this industry so i think for me to just feel like i have autonomy i really wanted to make more solo music um so i'll just start out with a solo song i wrote for myself you're amazing that's so good thanks you you you you you you you you you you you you you you You try so hard to lock away the pain Can we put the mask away Take a chance on your own life On each other We had it all A moment in the sun After all that's said and done I still want you but I gotta go Always I will love you always We'll finish other always I'm behind you always 'Cause I'm still holding on I'm behind you always guitar solo Am I a fool For living in the memories Rainy days, but watching time Slip through my fingertips And I'll pull away I tell myself it's better Maybe now is not our time to be But I can deny that Always I love you Always Will I ever see you again? ♪ We're still friends, you're the wrong way ♪ ♪ I'm behind you always ♪ ♪ 'Cause I'm still holding on ♪ ♪ I'm behind you always ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ I'm behind you always ♪ - This song I'm gonna play is called "Glimmer." It's an acoustic version of a song from my band, Covet. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ You will realize you don't need it anymore. You'll realize you don't need it anymore. Thank you. © transcript Emily Beynon