Nepal’s Gen Z protests: Corruption, Discord votes, and the fight for change

You're listening to Pumapad Gast. Yes, a popular youth-led movement can topple entire state institutions. It can lead the prime minister to flee the country in a helicopter. That has happened. But what comes after Gen Z is really being vigilant. They're not letting things progress as they would have maybe 10 years ago. Right now, there are many, many groups who are watching the entire process or expressing their dissatisfaction or the criticism or even their support sometimes of how this interim government is functioning. And I think that this is very important because for Gen Z, this young generation has always felt like they had no stake in any of this. And Gen Z might have been naive, but they're learning, they're showing a very much a willing ness to learn how to govern and how to become part of this process. Hello, I'm Pusir Abia Lampai, Pumapad Gast, and you're back with us with another episode of Teca Teca. And this time, we have a friend from Nepal. And I'm sure Nepal has been on everybody's minds in the past days, in the past weeks, really astounding images and videos that we've been seeing. And also, a lot of us here in the Philippines and all over the world are really intrigued by what they're calling the Gen Z protests. We suggest that this is led by the youth. And also, we're looking at the changes, the rapid changes, and reform. And in the latest news, a vote over discord. How is that possible? What does this have in store for Nepal in the coming days? And what lessons can we learn from Nepal, as we watch the protests there? And as we gear up for our own protests over corruption and the continuing concern about governance and good government here in the Philippines? Joining us in this episode is Pranai Rana of Kamal Weekly. He's joining us from Kathmandu. Pranai, welcome, Babu Hai. Hi, Ravi. Thank you for having me on your podcast. It's great to be here. So, I'll dive straight in. I mean, like I said, first of all, we wish everybody as well. I hope you are okay. And we say that because we've seen the videos, on the one hand, of course, people are concerned by the violence, the images that they've seen. But at the same time, I think it's safe to say that people here in the Philippines can empathize with the anger. So, let me start with the images that we've seen and what people have started to call this. We've called this the Gen Z protests and coupled with that, we've seen, I think you know what videos we're talking about, the burnings, the deaths, the beatings, the anger, but also the jubilation of people as they see some promise, in fact, even developments of change. But what are we not seeing, you suspect, and what do we not actually understand about what's going on? So, most of the images and the videos that have been widely shared across the world have been from the second day of protest when protesters burned down a lot of buildings and there was a lot of violence. And you know, those make for very striking images, our parliament building on fire, the seat of the executive on fire, those are very dramatic images. But what is less widely shared is are the images from the first day of protest. On September 8th, when the Gen Z actually took to the streets and they were protesting against corruption and then the state decided to suppress that protest with deadly force. So, the images that really radicalized us here in Nepal, where those images from the first day when the police were firing live ammunition at kids, college students, school students who were still in their school uniforms and carrying backpacks and them being shot, these kind of very horrific images really, really affected us and that is why we went to protest the next day. So, I believe those images from the first day are less widely known, but that was really the impetus for us to take to the streets the next day. And what really led to all of the arson and the violence and the burning and the politicians being attacked. So, that was really the cause. And right now what is also happening is there is a lot of activity and movement and mobilization behind the scenes among the Gen Z where groups are getting together and they're trying to figure out a way forward. So, they're discussing among each other, they're discussing with Gen Z groups, young youth groups from all across Nepal, they're trying to bring them together and make like a list of demands, you know, what do we want from the next government, how do we want the future of Nepal to be. So, all of that mobilization is happening now. And of course, as with any decentralized protest movement, there are going to be competing interests, they are going to be different factions who want different things. But all of that I think is part of the democratic process, it's part of negotiating and learning and figuring out what do we want as a Nepali people and also what do we want as the use, as the future of Nepal because really the future belongs to this Gen Z generation. And that's that all of that activity, I think is getting less coverage internationally. But that's probably the most important part of this entire movement. But I'm gonna lie, you mentioned, you know, that was day two, and he said, you have to look at day one, because we keep going back, I imagine it also doesn't start at day one. How far back do we actually have to go, day minus one, day minus two, what was happening in, let's say, the month before the actual day one. So the first day, the September 8th protest, that was really, it was triggered by the social media ban. But before that, for at least two weeks before that young Nepalese had been taking to social media and posting what they call the Nepo kids, Nepo baby trend, which I think was probably happening some time in the Philippines too. Did you have some of this? I think it was happening in Indonesia too. So Nepal also picked it up from, from these countries, we saw this trend. And then young Nepalese saw that, well, this applies to us too. The politicians and their children in our country are leading fabulously wealthy lives. Their lives are on par with any, you know, western country. Whereas the average ordinary people of Nepal live in desperate poverty, their only option for the future is to leave the country and go abroad either to work or to study and hopefully never come back. So this frustration has been building for years now. And this, but the anger against the government and the anger against these politicians who have ruled Nepal for 20 years now, even more, maybe 30 years now. So that really was, was being expressed on social media by these young people. And with the social media ban hit, for them, it was, it was a trigger. It was, well, now they're trying to even suppress our voices online. So that's why they decided to take to the streets. So it is actually an accurate because there is some of the first breaking of the news. It really highlighted the fact that, I mean, calling it Gen Z, but also paying that to a ban on social media is also inaccurate because it was not actually a, it was not actually a social ban, a social media ban that triggered all of this. It was the reason for trying to ban people from going on on social media, which was a lot of people now starting to talk about Nepal babies and corruption in, in, in government. And you're absolutely right, that was around that time, Filipinos certainly. And we know our friends in Indonesia, who are also starting to give pushback and backlash and condemnation. Not only of the corruption, but really we, the unapologetic and even brazen bragging in the brazen impunity of these, these people who were essentially bragging about unexplained wealth. Exotic. Yes. Yes. So it was really, it really started at its core as a corruption issue. Mm-hmm. Yes. It's an, it was an anti-corruption movement. The social media ban was just an immediate cause, but the movement had been building for weeks at least before. Okay. Now, a quick background there because you said, you know, this government had been in power for decades. But this government is on the backs of communist parties, if I'm not mistaken. And these communist parties were swept into power on their own revolution and their own campaign and fight to fight corruption and to fight bad governance and to fight for better, better government. For the past two, three decades, what has been your reflection about how there can be no rest for the weary about how, you know, about how on the side of those in power, as they say, power absolutely corrupts and to see those out for reform, getting into power and then falling into the same, into the same rabbit hole of descending and spiraling corruption and bad governance. What has been the reflection of the Nepalese people there? Yes. Like you said, right? The communist, more than the communist party, the Maoist party really was the party that launched this 10 year long civil war because they were very dissatisfied with the way the country was being run. They had the same issues that we have today, rampant corruption, you know, the country controlled by a few elites while the rest, the majority of the Nepalese people live in terrible conditions. That's why they launched their war. For 10 years, they fought against the state and then after 10 years when the war ended, the Maoist party came into mainstream politics, joined mainstream politics, contested elections and won an overwhelming majority. Because for the first time, the Nepalese people thought, well, here's a new party. Let's give them a chance. And we did give them a chance for four years and they couldn't do anything. And then their mandate was taken away too. And now, nearly 20 years since the war has ended, the war ended in 2006, 2007, 2006, 2007. But since then, we've seen the Maoist party be completely and totally co-opted by the ferry system that they were trying to fight. The moment they joined mainstream politics, they became exactly like every other party. So all of those ideals and, you know, the dreams that they had, kind of, that they themselves had, and they'd shown to the Nepalese people about a new Nepal, a Nepal where, you know, everyone has equal rights to a good life. All of that has gone away. We realized we were also duped that they too were exactly like everyone else. No, okay. I do want to get to that because now the latest news at least as far as we're seeing the headlines is you have a new prime minister, the first woman prime minister. But even that story of a first woman prime minister is really overshadowed by the quote-unquote the process by which she was chosen/installed/recognized as the new prime minister. This, all this talk about, you know, for the first time a leader was installed by way of an online vote, particularly over Discord. And I can understand the intrigue and the, you know, even the romanticism over how, you know, technology and overhaul are electoral systems, not just in Nepal, but certainly in any other country like the Philippines and Indonesia. But explain that to us first. And is there anything that needs to be qualified on that Discord vote? I mean, my real question is how is that even possible? I empathize and I can really say, you know, I can understand the romanticism over it. Now it's not possible, that's a self-selecting population voting over a, as popular Discord might be. I still imagine not all voters have access to Discord, but what's there to qualify on that headline? Yes, I mean, you're right. Discord is not representative of the Nepali people. But what we need to understand is that this was a Gen Z lead protest movement. This was very much a youth, young Nepalese led the protest. And young Nepalese, for young Nepalese Discord is a very popular platform. Of course, it's not for everyone, not all young Nepalese are on Discord. But it is a platform that they are, a lot of them are comfortable with, that maybe the millennials or the Gen X might not even have heard of before this. We understand, yes, we understand Facebook, we understand WhatsApp, we understand Twitter, we don't understand Discord. So that's where they congregated, that's where they were talking. And it wouldn't, I would say technically that she was chosen by Discord vote. There was a vote. And the vote was preceded by long conversations between these young Nepalese, we're on this Discord server and they were debating, they were talking about who we should pick. The front runner for the longest time was the, the current mayor of Kathmandu, his name is Balensha, he's a rapper, turned mayor. He is very, very popular with the young generation and they wanted him to lead. So the, the interim prime minister we have now, the former Chief Justice, she wasn't the front runner for the longest time. It was Balensha, but when the Kathmandu mayor said that he, he expressed no interest in becoming interim prime minister, then the youth were like, okay, who else? They were five other names that were put up. Among those five names, Susheela Karke, the current interim prime minister, she got 50% of the vote. That was seen as, no, it was not a binding vote, no one was, you know, no one was compelled to do anything based on that vote. But what that showed was that, yes, she is clearly the most popular candidate. So the people who were negotiating the representatives of Gen Z, who were negotiating with the president and with the army chief at the time, they saw this as, this is probably the candidate that most people are comfortable with. And then the Kathmandu mayor, he gave her his stamp of approval, he said he endorsed her and he said, yes, she would be a great person to lead the interim government. We should also put her once he said that it was pretty much sealed. That yes, Gen for Gen Z, this 73 year old woman, this former Chief Justice is the best choice. So they went with her. Okay. One thing to qualify there, one is that this is an interim prime minister, that's one. And second, the, I mean, is it safe to say, therefore, that at the end of the day, it needed to be the army or the president and or the army, it's still needed to be the institutions, the establishment, if you will, that needed to sign off on this. In other words, this is a revolutionary government that is now appointing an interim government. And hopefully that leads back to a, you know, a constitutionally based government is, is that a more accurate way of saying it and that, therefore, the discord vote was not so much a binding vote, but it brings to the tent and provides an exit strategy in particular for the Gen Zs, who otherwise would still be out in the streets. Exactly. Yes. So the, the discord vote was basically just a way for Gen Z or young Nepalis to feel like, you know, that they have a stake in this entire process. For too long, they've been shut out of all these governmental appointments, governmental positions and bargaining and negotiations and all of that. But this was a protest they led and they felt we had, we are the biggest stakeholders here. And that discord vote was a sign of their engagement with the process. But yes, like you said, ultimately the authority rested with the president, the president needed to approve of the prime minister and he did listen to all of these voices. He listened to what was going on and in the end, he did go with the, the choice that the Gen Z had made, but ultimate authority, yes, did rest with the president. Okay. The president, not the army. No, not the army. The army was playing more of a facilitating role. Despite our fears, I mean, we were also very concerned that the army would be the deciding factor here and they would play an outside, outside role. But surprisingly, and to all of our relief, the army really did play just like a very facilitatory, mediating role and they did not dictate anything. And in the meantime, all of this has allowed the, the situation to quill and to have a certain relative calm for Kathmandu and for Nepal, enough I imagine for the different sectors and players, including Gen Z, and all that they would want to represent, to at least now take it to, to, to the rooms and to negotiations and to, to having even institutions plan away forward for Kathmandu and for Nepal. Yes. Yes. Okay. What comes next, do you think? And what comes next, given, you know, the hard lessons and the painful truths about now whoever gets into power will now have the same path as was open to the Maoists, 20 years ago. And with the cautionary pale of we know what happened to them. What's next for Kathmandu and then for Nepal? And what do you think is the lesson here for, for Gen Z worldwide and for societies worldwide? Certainly, just in our neighborhood of Asia, like I told you, we've seen the protest in Indonesia. What do you think is the common lesson for all of us, especially given that speaking of Gen Z, all of us, all of them, I'm not a Gen Z, but all Gen Z are in fact now at the same platform. And as you said, all this talk about Nepal babies and corruption, the language was borderless because the experience was borderless. The aspirations and the anger is also borderless and the inspiration, certainly, is borderless. So people looking at Nepal, whether for inspiration or for cautionary tales, what do you think? Some people should be looking at and learning from you, just in the past two weeks. So right now we're planning for elections in six months. And from the experience that we've seen, like you said, like regional borderless experiences, we've learned from Bangladesh and from Sri Lanka too, what can happen? That has happened. But what comes after Bangladesh still has not held elections. Elections are planned for February now. It's over a year. We are watching that here in Nepal and we are afraid that that could easily happen too. That's why I think we need to be more vigilant, you know. Gen Z is really being vigilant. They are not letting business as usual. You know, they're not letting things progress as they would have maybe 10 years ago. Right now, there are many, many groups who are watching the entire process or expressing their dissatisfaction or their criticism or even their support sometimes of how this interim government is functioning. It was always the older people who decide all of these processes. For them, it was also a very opaque process. You know, the legal language, the even that's spoken language that politicians use is very difficult for young Nepalese to even understand and legal language, even more difficult to even read. But they're really engaging with this process. They're trying to understand and now there are Instagram pages that will explain, you know, how the constitution works. What are the laws that are attracted towards certain clauses or certain demands? So Gen Z is educating itself and Gen Z might have been naive, but they're learning and they're showing a much, they're showing a very much a willingness to learn how to govern and how to become part of this process. And that's, I think, really, really important for us moving forward. The lessons, I guess, are the same for everyone that they are for us, that, you know, after the revolution, after protest movement has succeeded, that that inter-genome, you know, in the middle, the time in the middle is very dangerous. That's the time when really opportunists and people were just waiting to get in the middle and use this chaos and confusion for their own ends, those people become very active at these times. And that's happening here in Nepal too. The political parties were disgraced. They're already rising, they're already coming out into the public and making speeches. So we really need to be very, very careful not to let these people take the movement back, take this momentum and use it for their own ends. And I think vigilance, right? Like hyper vigilance from all of us who were involved in the protest, who saw what happened and who have a stake in the future of this country. We need to really, really watch and supervise and just not let any of these vested interests get in the middle and take over the entire movement. You know, Filipinos, we like to tell ourselves and criticize ourselves. And we say, the problem with us is that we have very short memory. We're very forgiving and actually we're not even forgiving. It's just that we tend to forget very quickly. Do the Nepalese people have long memory? Do you think that this affliction is unique to Filipinos or can you relate? Yeah, we can relate very much. We are also the same. We do, I mean more than forgetting, for us, it's, we get used to things, you know. Very much there is a Nepalese saying, where it's estainé, which means this is how it is. And Filipinos say, genientelage. Same thing. How do you say it again in the police? Estainé all. Estainé all, genientelage. And we hope, I hope we prove all ourselves wrong that it doesn't have to be that way. I'm hopeful, I'm hopeful. We'll see where things go, but yes, like everyone, we, you know, me as a journalist, I also have to be very careful, very vigilant and try to do the best that we can with what we have and not let this process get hijacked. So we're looking forward, we're optimistic. We hope that things will get better. Yeah, well, Pranay Rana of Kamal Weekly, Maraming, Maraming, Salamat, Namaste, Mabuhai, and thank you very much for giving us your time and your insights. Thank you so much, Roy. This episode was engineered by me, Anthony Top Yes. Jay Marc Dordicilia is our editor at large. 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