NDIS Fraud Is Exploding — And No One’s Stopping It

So you all might have seen the shots of me a couple of years ago coming out of the water just magnificent manliness on a beach on the sunshine coast. It was just after Christmas day. I wasn't at my best. Since then I have been on a health kick and I had no energy. I wanted to change that. I go to the gym now regularly three or four times a week. So I started taking R5 which is designed specifically for people in their 40s and 50s. This staff has changed my life. You get 20% off by using the code Carlos go to revive five dot com dot a you first up. So what is the NDIS the national disability insurance scheme was set up in 2013 to fund support for Australians with permanent and significant disability. It was introduced under Julia Gillard and now costs around 50 billion a year supports more than 600,000 people and is one of the fastest growing areas of government spending closing in on Australia's entire military budget. It pays for care things like therapy support workers and equipment not everyday living costs. So drew is a former UQ student activist known for his anti Chinese Communist party stance. Built a reputation calling out corruption and institutional failures. Pete is a popular Aussie prank YouTuber revealed his home was rated by police and nearly faced eight years in prison over videos exposing alleged scammers. They join us now. So lads, I've set this story up. I've given a couple of facts on how the NDIS came about under Julia Gillard. How much is spent on it compared to say the military. Oh, crazy. And I want to you guys to know that I've had so much feedback from everyone at home. Everyone on their phone saying I've got to interview you guys because this corruption stinks to fucking high heaven very bad. So you are here now. Yes. We know the stats on the NDIS. What's the reality? I mean, I think the sad reality is that it's actually worse than it's reported. So I mean, we would go to these businesses out in Western Sydney and different parts and it would literally just be closed shop after close shop after close shop. Closed in the middle of the day, you go to places and they've got NDIS banning orders banned by the government for corruption and you'd go there and they're still operating. So I think it's just an incredible that it's way worse than most people expect. Let me start from the beginning. Yes. How did you get involved? Where did the hunt come from? Where did you get the scent? This is very interesting. So obviously we saw the Nick Shirley video in Minnesota. So I was I was looking on ax. I was scrolling through ax and obviously I knew Nick Shirley did the whole Minnesota fraud going on there. And then I saw everyone in Australia talking about potential like fraud in the NDIS. And I was thinking to myself, there's something to look into here. Like if a lot of people are talking about it, you know, 1300 providers in just like Campbell for 17,000 people or something. One in 13 people and I was like, all right, there's something to look into. And that's what I message this big guy here. Drew Pavler and from there, we've kind of just right and we're just like focused on the goal of just exposing, you know, the fraud potentially in the NDIS. One thing to get some messages about it. But you guys actually took it to another level. You decide, all right, I'm going to actually put some time into this your own time. And must have been pretty quick response. You got some feedback. What did it show? It was extraordinary. So I can't believe it how I met Pete. Like I literally didn't even know who Pete was. And like, Pete was huge on YouTube. But I'm just I've just very obsessed the politics. And so I hadn't met Pete and I was like, wow, there's this other Greek fellow living in Brisbane, who's a big YouTuber. And I was following what was happening with the NDIS for years, yeah, for years, like just watching it progressively get worse. But where does it come from boys? I mean, it's not just that. I mean, I'm surprised you're not in the clink. I mean, we're all stuff you've done. I mean, I've done some pretty case. If you want to check it out, go on. But you decide to do some good with the power of YouTube, which is significant. And you connect up. And how does that work that relationship from there? It works really really well because Pete has this mentality for YouTube. He's got this great mind for shaping the story and getting it out to people through new media and stuff like that. And I've got this sort of obsession with politics and the sort of eccentricity about it all. I mean, I've just been obsessed with politics for years and I've been an activist for years on a whole range of issues going back to CCP stuff and all that sort of thing. So it just worked out really well that Pete's got this amazing talent for YouTube and telling a story. And then just I guess we just worked out really well together. The sort of investigation. It just, it uptells, it uptells, what I'm really trying to find out from the get go of this interview is, am I doing this for what I think will just be great TV or because there's something more substantial. I think it's destroying the country. I think just straight up, I mean, not just obviously not just NDIs for, but just the state of the country right now is a disaster. Like if you just look at the state of the economy, it's like this is one of the only areas of the economy that has growth in it. Inflated. Yeah. And it's paper growth. Like it's, it's not productive. It's not helping the country. There are so many people who are being scammed and abused in the system already as well. And I think it's just the fact that this is like probably the most glaring example of the country being systematically rauded. It's just, it's, I think it's just an absolutely terrible state right now. I'm going to get into that in a bit more depth. But I just want to close off on, you know, the real heart of this for you. Yeah. It's turning your skills on YouTube and communication into something very meaningful. But you've got to start it out somewhere. Of course. Yeah. Well, two years ago, I did a lot of like exposing scammers. And then I got arrested. And I was dealing with like a year of like court and all that kind of stuff. So like that was where I really wanted to change, you know, the way I did things like to actually help the people out. I think that both of us, yeah, we've both been arrested like five times between the both of us. Have you ever convicted of anything like we never actually don't think wrong. They got dropped. I just got dropped completely innocent. Yes. Can I be honest? I have been arrested a couple of times as well. You've been arrested. Well, yeah, just for my own discretion stuff. I was young fella. How's being arrested? There was another one anyway. We're not good. We're just pushing the bounds. I think I think that's probably why me and Pete work very well together because I think just naturally extremely annoying people. Really, really annoying. And like both of us like to push the boundaries of being. I've been arrested for my protest against the Chinese governance of that. He's been arrested for exposing scammers and stuff like that. So just the combination has been very deadly together. All right. You're deadly together. Yes. Now you start investigating this bohemouth of corruption as you point out. Yes. 10 billions of dollars. How does it start out? Where are the flickers? Where's the evidence at the start? Take me through the whole. Shabang. Well, that's hard. I mean, look, we we started in Western Sydney because we read that article that everyone read in this at the start of January where they pointed out that there was something incredible. It was like something like one in 13. Le Kenber residents had an NDI provider. I mean, it was that the scale in Le Kenber and some of these suburbs in Western Sydney was just incredible. We started looking at Google Maps satellite imagery and you crazy overlaid with NDIs businesses and like you look at banks down and you look at some of these suburbs in Western Sydney and like they're literally sometimes dozens of NDI shops on the same street. And we just don't understand how that's even possible. Yeah. So that's that's where it started. We started. We put out some post as well asking people for leads and we just kept on digging kept on digging. How much feedback did you get? So this is in the initial stages of your investigation. How much feedback starts coming in? Now there was a lot on X like it was the start. Yeah, instantly it was pretty much like a massive thing. So we we spoke about it and we're like, we just got to keep looking into leads, but we got to go into it properly. We didn't want to just, you know, go there and just that was the end of the video. So essentially we started with banks down. We wanted to knock on doors majority. Honestly, that goes down. I'm just being honest. What do you know? You see it says like, oh, staff hours nine to five. You knock on the door and no one is there like Adolf. No one. No one is there. And then you call them and it's like, oh, the call can't be received or whatever it says. And then we're like, it's just like, how do these people make money? Yeah, I mean, you'd go to these places and this they're closed in the middle of the day despite the sign saying that they're open. And then you try to look them up online. Their website doesn't even exist. Like a lot of times they a lot of the times they'll they'll have on the sign, you know, a link to a website. And then you try to look up the website. It doesn't exist. And you try find them on social media. There's nothing. And we're just wondering like, how do these places even make money? Like there's no advertising that shut in the middle of the day with when it's supposed to be staffed staff hours. It just does not make sense. This is not how normal businesses operate. It's just fake images like AI images. They just type something in. Put it on their website. You know, you go to the website and there just be like, for example, AI generated images of like people caring for disabled people, etc. And you're just thinking to yourself, like, what is actually happening here? It doesn't look good. But that was only really the start. Like, obviously we looked into that. We're like, I, this is just like the surface level stuff that we found. So we're like, let's look into it deeper. And obviously that's when the three months. And we did three months worth of work. Three months worth of work. And we would we started off going through, for example, like just the official government NDIS banning notices and the compliance notices. And I think I think the amazing thing there is that it's just the tip of the iceberg because there was a statistic like at this the March quarter. 2025 there were 7,000 T-boss regarding fraud in the NDIS. And something like 16, or it was less than 20, actually went through to a prosecution. So that's like less than 0.1%. How is that possible? And so the places that actually get banning notices and compliance notices, you would think have to probably be egregious if 99% overwhelmingly of places that get fraud complaints, it never even goes to prosecution says. So yeah, we started going through, we were just knocking on people's doors and stuff like that. And then that's when we started getting some extremely aggressive responses. And we thought, OK, there's something to maybe peel back there. The reality is that you're getting an angry reaction because you're onto something. Yes, look, this is the thing. I don't think anyone looks at this and they think this is a professional legitimate business. Like, if this was a professional-- if you go to a normal professional coffee shop, or something like that, and you just ask a question, I don't think people are going to start throwing things at screaming slurs and these sorts of things. I mean, this is not how people normally operate in business. Saying our word, come on. You're in the disability business, and you're saying the our word. It's just, yeah, that to me. And then just clearly looking at them raging at us, breaking my glasses, you know, that are said about about 20 times. You broke my glasses, oh my god. I've seen some of the clips you're now and putting yourself in a little bit of physical danger. Was that a thing? That is real. So we, again, we'll try to avoid the direct details so you don't get a legal trouble, but there was one tobacco shop that we saw. Hey, listen, have we got the legal stuff yet? No, so listen, would it? Yeah, okay. So look, there was one in particular that was potentially related to sort of black market tobacco dealing. And it's kind of infamous in Australia over the past couple of years that there's just been these sort of spate of five on me, a tag across all of Australia regarding the tobacco black market trade. So when that one happened, it was a little bit scary. I think our parents were both pretty mad at us. And we got security cameras on our homes and stuff like that. I think I get sad to say this, but I think legitimately, like if we lived in Sydney, we'd feel a lot more insecure. Oh, I wouldn't want to. Yeah, I feel a lot more at threat in Sydney, because look at what happened to friendly Jordy, for example. I'm not even friends with him. He hates me, but he got five on. And so honestly, I legitimately think if we lived in Sydney, we would probably be higher targets. I think we're kind of lucky that maybe we're living in Queensland in to stay. So you go into these businesses, their shell businesses, basically. I would have been advertising in the front when no one was working in it. That's the first level. Then you start going into these businesses and we've seen all the fallout. And are you able to establish how much rauding was going on? That's hard, because obviously we can't get the government access. Like there's no one in government telling us the information about how much each of the NDIS providers are getting. So that's the thing. I'd say that the thing is, we are really just at the very tip of the iceberg here. And we're going to be doing this for the next two, three years, I think. And we've just started at the very-- we've just scraped the surface, I think, at this point. And you look at Nick Shirley and Minnesota, he had like government insider sources. We're asking for people in the government to come out and reach out to us. Number, we can do that together. I mean, with that element of it, I mean, you guys are already often running. But we've had bunches of stuff sent to us as well. What I do legitimately think is that this is of national significance and importance. And if there's-- and what there seems to be a fair weight of corruption going on and raiding of the system, and nothing shits me more. Oh, yeah. And so again, go on with what else you've kind of discovered. Well, we found, obviously, the cleaners inflating the invoices with the cleaners. So essentially, I set up a sting operation where I rented out the Airbnb. And I was like, all right, I'm going to hire a cleaner through directly through the NDIS provider. I'm going to record all the foreign calls, et cetera, because I wanted to get them on camera saying specific things. The NDIS provider was saying there's a minimum charge of two hours. But then I called, ended up calling up the NDIS fraud and investigations team. And they said there's no direct rule of minimum two hours on the invoice. They'll claim a government rule. Yeah, exactly. So essentially, I set up the sting, got the cleaner to come to the room. And that's when I started the clock. You monitored them. They didn't even do two hours. Yeah. And then you saw-- 24 minutes. It was 24 minutes. I saw the receipt. We actually had cameras inside the apartment. We weren't able to actually eventually publish that because of the legal stuff. Five years in prison potential. But I mean, they used tissues to clean stuff. They didn't bring professional cleaning equipment. They literally just used tissues inside the apartment to wipe down the benches. That was literally all they did. 24 minutes worth of work. And then they tried to invoice 236. Yeah. And the other thing is obviously, they didn't have any cleaning equipment. How do you literally show up? You're a cleaner, but have no cleaning equipment. I even asked an NDIS cleaner. And they said, you definitely-- you're normally supposed to bring the cleaning equipment. Because-- Well, how do you clean it doesn't have cleaning equipment? What cleaner doesn't have cleaning equipment? How? They used tissues. They literally just used a box of tissues that was already in the apartment. I keep laughing because I'm enjoying your storytelling. But also I have to keep-- I have to keep in the back of my mind. It's really shit. I mean, it's really shit. And also, it's hard working Australians money that's going into this. And for me, it's outrageous. You have so much tax. But at this time, you're spending your own-- at this point, you're spending your own money, you've got to get your own legals, which is not cheap. I mean, how are you doing all this stuff? Yeah, just-- we've been crowdfunding. Like, the last video we probably ended up spending like 10,000 illegal fees to try and clear it. And they were giving the worst case scenario. So they were saying, even just stepping into the shop could constitute a trespass charge. And we had to say, listen, we've got a very high risk tolerance. We're happy to go to jail. They want to murder us. If they listen to what a murder. Like, seriously, if the Australian government wants to go off the arsura investigating India's fraud, I think the Australian people would be on our side. So we've got a high risk tolerance here. We're going to try to do as much as we can by the book. What you're saying is you guys are prepared to do time in the clink. Oh, 100%. Of course. 100%. Well, for the people, why not? Yeah. It's costing us $52 billion per year. And it's projected 2030 to be $100 billion. You really think that that's normal. That isn't normal. That's not normal. It's almost more than the Australian military at this point. No, no, so the military-- And you're 100% right about that. The Australian military costs between $55 and $65 billion. The NDIS is upwards of $50 billion now. And the projections are much higher. It just doesn't make sense. I don't know. I mean, when I dug into it, I was like, how does it spend more money than Medicare, which is supposed to be universal public health care for every single Australian? How does this program spend more than Medicare? Just doesn't even make sense. And so seriously, if we had to go to jail, if they say that recording people is illegal, et cetera, we're happening potentially face the consequences. We have a high risk tolerance. We don't want to go to jail. But if the Australian government decides to go after us for trying to expose it, then we will accept that penalty. The other interesting thing is about this whole NDIS. It's not even just-- like, it's normally known as the right-wing thing, because obviously, Nick Shirley did it. People associated with right-wing. There's actually been a lot of people on the left. Everyone messaging left-right, whatever it is. It's affecting every single Australian. And the people at the top of the government, which we want to work with everyone. But obviously, we've really only had Pauline Hansen so far support us publicly. A couple liberal. Yeah, and a couple liberals. But other than that, let's be real. They're all trying to essentially ignore it, sweeping under the rug. I saw that with Pauline Hansen, she tried to get an inquiry up. There was an inquiry that was done. A task force was set up. You know, like the task force was doing the fuel. The task force was set up. And it's a committee run by Labour MP. Well, it's them investigating themselves. I mean, it's just terrific stuff. Look, it's interesting. Like Fatima Payman, who's quite a left-wing senator, like she voted for the Pauline Hansen motion, because she pointed out that the Labour-socald inquiry was-- I'm not sure you should get started on Fatima. Yeah, I want to say-- I actually strongly dislike-- I couldn't believe it. I have to say, I'm strongly against Fatima Payman. But she voted for Pauline Hansen's NDIS motion. She's strongly against me, bro. She won't let me tell you. Yeah, I know. I'm not going to imagine. Anyway, yeah. But she voted for that. This is what happens with these guys. Sometimes they surprise you. Like when I said, it should be free public transport while this fuel supply issue is going on. And the Greens, the next day, were coming out something. What were they calling you? Do they think you're a right one? No, no, they supported it. Oh, they supported it? It was like a shock of my life. Really? But then I thought, I'll hang on a second. If I've come up with an idea that the Greens like, then it's really fucked. That's true. That's never going to work. That's actually a good fight. And they went back on topic. So Pauline, try to get this inquiry up. Didn't work out. Greens and Labor voted down. There was, like I said, an inquiry that was done before. But what kind of inquiry that has a bit of teeth is needed here? And where would you send them specifically? Where is it? Because there's suppliers. There's providers going. I'd say providers and the plan managers. You'd say even people don't look at the plan managers. I actually think the plan managers are there. So take everyone who is not familiar with the NDIS. How does it work like that? Well, look at that. The plan managers essentially tasked with managing the funds for the NDIS participant. I think the big problem with the NDIS, the way it was designed, they kind of designed it as this kind of market system with the idea that disabled people would be able to shop between different providers, and there would be competition. And in a competitive marketplace, people would be able to shop around for the best quality. And that sort of thing. But I think the problem is just that in reality, it does not work like that. So we interviewed a guy the other day on the Gold Coast. And he just explained to us that he never understood what was happening with his NDIS plan. He's the business that he was working with that was looking after him, just managed the plan for him, managed all the money for him, and essentially, [BLANK_AUDIO] because they were managing all the invoices and all the money for him. They ended up just started, they started to rule out the system. And so this poor bloke, he ran out of money early on his NDIS plan and he's pretty severely disabled. He was facing homelessness. What is he gonna do? He ran out of money on his NDIS plan because this business that was managing his money for him decided to start charging him 10 hours a day for somebody to come to his house. In reality, the person would come for three hours, four hours. - And some of the days even literally, they wouldn't show up at all. So they would say, "This is support work becoming. "He'd be like, "and this show company pays it." And they just pocket the difference. And this poor bloke, he told us that he just did not have the capacity to manage his own money. And so that's the big problem in the system, the way that it is on the internet. - And because you guys would be aware of this, there are great elements of this that the legitimately look after people who need it. - 100% - 100% - And so that's where I've found it confusing. Probably like a lot of Australians, I think, in principle, this is a great thing. But it's now got so corrupted. - Yeah. - 100% - That we need to do something about it. - Well, we all agree. We all agree, obviously. It is in practice a good system. But then when you, yeah, when you look into it, - In the idea of it is so. - Exactly. But then you look at the people who actually dissape, we're being taken advantage of. On so many, we've received over 100 tip-offs. - Thousands of messages. - Thousands of messages from people about their own stories. And that's just a small sample. - And so. - We've had so much support from people in the NDIS. And people who are like, "I've got a severely disabled kid, "and we can't get enough support through a system, "and then we see this scamming taking place." So that's the thing that's really sad about it, kind of like, there are people who actually need it who are not getting enough support right now through the system. - So you imagine what it's like. You have, you're a parent of, you know, a disabled kid. They really need this help. Like parents need help, the kid needs help. And they're not seeing the benefits. Someone's making money out of it, but not them. And they're not even getting the services that they're paying for. - Well, that's where we step in people. - Yeah, well, they're where we step in. - They're also being, a lot of them are being rejected. So there's a lot of stories of people who are genuinely disabled. They're being rejected with their plan, they apply and then they get rejected. But then you see these like NDIS providers, people like taking advantage of the system. How are they able to get the funding? But then the people who are disabled get rejected. - And look, that's what it is. - Some of the stuff that you could spend it on, like up until very recently, like you could use it for prostitute sex work. You could be used to. - It could be used. - No, Clive Palmer said this to us a couple of weeks ago, that interview if you haven't seen it, check it out on the KELSEF and other YouTube channel. - Okay, check it out. But he said that and I was like, hang on, I want. - It's real, it's actually real. I was stunned, but you could previously hire a prostitute through the NDIS. Or I just truly don't understand how that's even possible. And as well, you know, you could, it was being used for overseas holidays as well. - What I'm talking about. - Part of mental health is some sort of satisfying of sexual whatever. - Yeah, and it's interesting, 'cause like there's big debates about it. Like there's this green set at the Jordan Steel John, who has disabled himself. And he was very proud to say that, he actually said this in this Transcendent that he has access sex work services before. And he thinks it's an important part of a disabled person's life because they get access to physical intimacy. I mean, I kind of understand, but still on the government money of Australia, I don't expect it. - I don't know, man. - I was like, I don't know. - I just don't justify. - I tried to, I tried to, I do feel, I feel bad, look, I don't know. - I don't know, I don't know. - Maybe you save up your parliamentary salary. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - And pay cash for it. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - I think in Jordan's place, he's on 230 down another year. - Can I, he could hire a prostitute. - Can I just say, can I just say one thing? - Sure. - I draw the line at tax payers paying for hookers. - Yeah, I agree, everyone does. I think literally everyone does. - And what about the 12 billion to the dog, but dog walks, what's the other two? - Look, look, look, it's a bit, like the headline was a little bit, it was like, look, it's $12 billion for like sort of discretionary services. And what that means is like, it can go towards dog walks, it can go to cinema outings, it can go to cafe visits and stuff like that. - I can handle the dog walk. - Some of it is okay. - But I'm still borderline, but also, if you've got money, some level of cash, some of it's obviously, if you've got a small amount of cash, you've got small amounts to be discretionary with it. But all of this stuff, I mean, it should be essential services, really essential services, I believe. And because of the breadth of it, there is an allowance for corruption to come into it. - Yeah. - Right? Because you can't police, it's too broad. - There was an amazing one where it was literally one of the guys involved in the Melbourne home invasions. He was like a teenage youth offender or whatever. And he got flown to the Gold Coast at a theme park. - I saw that. - And it was the NDIS, that was the NDIS spending that. And it's like this guy broke into a home at night with weapons, would have potentially been willing to kill somebody for what, a watch or something like that. It's a terrifying crime to break into somebody's home at night. - I think that's really poor form for me actually. I mean, there are, you know, thieves can go on the log ride too. - Oh, of course, give them the log ride. - I actually don't even need to see it. - I know, they deserve a bit of a thrill outside of breaking into someone's house in the middle of the night with a machete. - Oh, of course. - And getting cash. - I agree with that. - Send them to Dream On. - Why not? - I think the greatest victims of the story, you know, the guys with the machete breaking into homes at night, they deserve a dream well, park ride too, I think. - That's true. - I think that's it's just, honestly, sometimes I look at it and I'm like, why didn't I just get into the NDIS as a reward of myself? Like, I love would be so. - Now, which started the business? - Cleaning business right now. - I'm so excited. - But it's usually like, sometimes I, this is the thing that pisses people off so much. Like, why work? Why even fucking work in Australia? I don't have to say why work and pay 50% of your money in tax when you can just fucking rule the system. - Okay, let me ask you this. Let's move it on to, to Lecamba. So why do you think in your investigations and you're just touching the surface? Why do you think there's a concentration of NDIS providers in the Lecamba area and banks there? - It's a beautiful suburb. - Yeah. - We think so as well. - I think that potentially it's linked to the fact that there are a lot of people who have moved to that suburb from low trust societies, often failed states, often broken societies where there are not high standards of public trust. And so I think that's, - There's no deeper connection with, you know, people who are coming in from another country and whatever agency is doing that or whatever business. - There was something. - But look, the sad reality of it is, it's obviously not popular or nice to talk about but there's an element of migration fraud involved in this. There are a lot of people who have come to Australia who probably can't actually, you know, sell their skills on the labor market, like they probably actually can't work. And so I think the NDIS to some extent has basically become almost like a universal basic income. For some people who've come from countries that are very poor and would not be able to work in Australia. And then the question becomes, like, why should we fund that in this country? - I think a lot of people are. - I agree. - What else did you find? I mean, I saw one story I think where you had this beautiful girl on who had, I think there was some issue with her arm or stuff. - Oh yeah, that was the video I made. - And so then you've got a pedophile or something. - Oh, she can't get funding, but the pedophile can. - That's what I'm talking about. She's genuinely disabled. She needs like a driving, an actual piece of equipment to be able to drive. She gets rejected and doesn't get funded for that, which is the problem with the system because a pedophile, a convicted offender, gets $1.4 million through the NDIS. - And you know what's amazing as well, Carl? I used to think that the NDIS was, like I thought that the option was like NDIS or welfare, but when you're on the NDIS, you can still get welfare payments. So this convicted child rapist, not only does he have like this massive NDIS package, hundreds of pounds, maybe millions of them. Like he would also be on welfare as well. - I don't know how that happens. - Yeah, it's just like, what does it happen? - I mean, this is why we're upset and this is why we started looking into this 'cause it just seems that Australia is being pilfered. - Yeah. - That's what it feels like. - Well, normally, you know, in these situations, you know, if the old saying is, it's only a reward if you're not in on it, right? But the majority of people that you're hearing from, you know, really want it, they can use it, but they're actually just getting fleeced. - Yeah, exactly. - Or they can't get it because of, you know, some weird assessment of them or, but I don't know. And I think this is also an important point to point out as well. Like it's obviously not just like, migrant fraud, et cetera. Like there's also an element where people from, probably very well to do backgrounds, like they have a lot more access to, you know, the medical system and they can kind of just pay to play. Like you can get a diagnosis for almost anything these days, I think. - Yeah. - And so like realistically, if I was a kid today, my mom probably would have got me at all. - Well look at the stats on that. - So what do you actually need to get NDIS? - Look at her. The thing is, like I was an eccentric kid, Raikhal, and I'm still a little bit eccentric, 100%. If I was like a kid today, my mom would get me on the NDIS, 100%. - Nah, he is. - And like this isn't just like a right way to talk about it. There was literally a lab MP Mike Freelander, who's a doctor who literally said this, and type one, he just said, look the problem is that there are so many people who are getting onto this game who are not severely disabled. Like they might have very mild forms of autism and neurodivergency, I'm like neurodivergent and whatever. And literally, if I was around today, like my mom probably wouldn't be able to do this. Like if it was like extreme autism. But when it's like, - When it's like my complexion society, - Exactly, but when it's like mild and you're like, well, they're watering that part of it down, right? - Yeah, it's a Jordan Steel John. The Green Senator said that he wanted to make that. I think he wanted to add ADHD to the NDIS. Like I'm literally, I've literally got ADHD, so I would be allowed to get onto it. And I like really stick it on it. But realistically though, like it would actually be so, like, I'm not sure if I'm gonna get it. a fraud on this round taxpayer if like I was on the NDIS because like I can function in society allegedly like allegedly but still though like like I'm a little bit weird and according to this green sentence or I should be on the NDIS I'm not severely disabled like I can function so I yeah like what you've got ADHD like everyone's got a bit of ADHD these days because everyone's on their phones 24/7 so seriously like yeah and again ADHD in a severe form it's so difficult for parents right yeah and I agree with that and and I think that made I've got you know I have heightened energy yeah obviously not obviously we're talking moderate forms not obviously not competitive yeah no for a pretty high energy both because you're only five years younger than me that's true that's true yeah you're a young man Carl you're 30 years old you're looking great but we obviously what what we're talking about here is like moderate forms yeah moderate forms of ADHD moderate forms of autism realistically they should not be on the NDIS I think that's like even the labor government is recently starting to talk about that and the Greens want to put ADHD on it it doesn't make sense here's the trouble it looks like it's so fat and so broad and I'm trying to lose weight calories bro I would never say that I have to hold him since I've been on the revive five man it's just that you're looking sure thank you buddy thank you look at that all right it's looking sure so what do we need to do here because there are elements that need it how do you strip it back we need to I guess the most effective way is to actually if if if the projections are right and it's going to cost X then there needs to be fundamentally right now an urgent inquiry into the waste yeah exactly how there's not an inquiry is beyond me how labor and the Greens can vote against it is beyond me 34 senators voted against that 600,000 people are on the NDIS yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah it's crazy so and you've got that's a fair block of voters yeah exactly so it that's the problem Carl like we mentioned this in the video like it's got it's got into the point where like if you were to substantially strip fraud out of the NDIS like there might be an economic recession of Australia because as we said recently like it's almost like functioning as a universal basic income for people who otherwise would not be able to earn money on the open market so that's that's a big part of it like it's one of the only sectors of this trend economy that's actually growing like we've got this really distorted economy where we've got a few productive sectors like for example mining etc but then all the money then gets diverted into just like these massive fraud fraud diversion scheme sort of thing well they said they said though if they prosecuted it wasn't one thing yet that it would like completely this is one of my favorite quotes about so John Dato the head of the NDA which is like the agency that runs it he told Senate estimates that if every single case of fraud in the system were to be prosecuted like the Australian legal system would collapse because it's literally not enough judges in the system to deal with all this fraud I think like we we have seen so many cases co where like people have been banned from the NDIS for life and like with with not even the slightest amount of digging we found that they're still working yeah like not even the slightest out of it exactly like two seconds they're not even trying to hide it like you'll go on the Instagram page and they've still got an Instagram page saying we're working the NDIS and you just look at it and you're like what's happening here they got a government ban but they're still working and does anyone care you purchase some classic records and then you see the exact same last name it just maybe a sibling or like someone that lives with them and it's like sometimes it's incredible though like how little digging we have to do like they'll still be using the same phone lines like it's crazy like yeah we actually look at it like are these people really stupid or is it just an indication that there's no prosecution of fraud in the system and I think it's more the latter like they just realize that they're essentially able to get away with it. When you have tens of billions of dollars um disappearing into the ether um it starts to get it starts to get messy to investigate right so so at some point um you know along the chain people are just going would labor ministers would labor ministers and western Sydney want to have a full order of what's going on out there would would Tony Burke the the home affairs minister would he want to have a full order of what's happening in his in his seat I mean it's not just NDIS fraud like in his seat like Tony Burke seat was like the center of ISIS radicalization in Australia in the early 2010s I've done open source investigations using census data and so like that and potentially one in 140 young Muslim men in the suburb of Lecember in the early 2010s joined ISIS or was stopped by the Australian authorities at the airport in the process of attempting to leave the country to fight for ISIS so that's an incredible none that's an incredible credible number there's no suggestion here that that Tony Burke is um in his in any way stable form aware of you know this but I mean maybe should be aware of your own yes I mean true I think yeah I'm involved look I think he should be aware because he's literally the head of home affairs and this this suburb of Lecember like you know this is where the bomb I should have got radicalized as well what you're saying basically if I'm if I'm right is that what possible interest does a politician have in prosecuting this when their very existence as the local member depends on 100% and there was a case a couple years back in Western Sydney where millions of dollars into fraud and the ice funds was potentially being linked to ISIS financing overseas so this is just like when you start drilling into it there's a lot of criminal corruption taking place we should have a full audit I think there needs to be two things taking place I think full national anti-corruption commission inquiry with the NACC it doesn't really seem to do anything right now yeah we like you know the teals were banging on about like let's build this anti-corruption body but what is it actually doing right now I don't know like who actually knows the second thing is like and this is actually something that the lefties might be amenable to like people obviously see us as right when because we've touched on you know the fact that some of the fraud is taking place in some areas of Sydney that are heavily you know immigrant base etc but if you look into it like why doesn't the NDIS just why don't we just structure the NDIS like Medicare for example why don't we just make it fully government run strip out all the tens of thousands of fraudulent providers all these like parasitic fraudulent providers in the system all these criminal gangs like we're talking of disability for disability is people who are disabled why should it not be just provided for by the government because the government now looks at it and goes this is so hard to unwind exactly right so where do we put the country recession you put the country recession and you lose a lot of labor seats well they got to figure it out because because people had no we need to start something though right yeah so so what can we do what are you guys planning to do in order to take this further we're gonna be doing like five more videos yeah we just need to expose it on an even deeper scale I think the first video is just like a small taste of it like a small just a surface of what we really found we've received as I said thousands of tip-offs so this next video we're gonna go like much deeper with like people who have actually experienced stuff we've met up with a lot of people who actually have disabilities they've given us a bunch of like you know the evidence they have witnessed testimony there aren't in the isin voices exactly yes tell me more about that yeah we're working on the video currently the one we met up in goal course so a guy who's disabled has been taken advantage of by a NDIS provider potentially yeah potentially about a hundred thousand dollars and 168 thousand yeah so 168 thousand is his plan per year that he gets and potentially a majority of it was essentially stolen by his and what does he do with that money he's a severely disabled guy he was a nightclub bouncer who was he was a he was a he was a personal bodyguard for Johnny Depp he was a successful guy he was a bouncer on the goal course some guy jumped in one day a smat per cow punched him he then got he then had brain seizures and and unfortunately like yeah lost lost a lot of basically physical capacity half his half this half of his body is paralyzed essentially and so he uses that money for a carer in his own home he uses that money to get a wheelchair uses that money yeah just basically so that he can live yeah so where it should be going yeah exactly and then what happens but he never saw his invoices he never saw them and this is where like that's the thing this is where it actually goes to the design of the scheme and and that's why I think we actually have to start again this is where maybe some of the lefties maybe amenable to my idea here I'm very pragmatic you know I hate the CCP but I sometimes learn from them dungjoping he said it doesn't matter whether a cat is black or white as long as it catches mice and seriously whatever works works so why don't we just make the NDIS like Medicare a full government run program where there are no longer tens of thousands of dodgy weird providers these creepy gangsters and all these sorts of people deformed in the system I mean we're talking about the most vulnerable people in Australia why would you create a market system for people who in many cases are so severely dissu- diss so severely in many cases they're so severely disabled that they literally cannot function why would you then ask expect these people to then be able to participate in this full market economy be able to manage their own plans manage their own money it's literally invited we've basically created something that's in a massive invitation to massive corruption yeah and taking taking advantage of it so why not make it a proper government program instead of this weird quasi mix where the government just gives endless amounts of money but just endless blank checks but they allow this kind of weird fraudulent crop market well what you're saying effectively too is that what the NDIS no matter how it started out has become is a social welfare slush fund for those who you know but it's not take advantage of it but it's also not even the sad thing as well as it's not even an efficient it wouldn't even be an efficient social welfare you know distribution network because look at the people making millions of dollars out of this like they're people that's targeting it yeah like well how how did they start an NDIS provider and then they have a luxury car luxury house in six months but that's that's what's happening there's a story in the next video where within six months of this planned spider essentially taken on this client and taking dealing with all his invoices and just stealing the money she then had this new house new car etc and there's one in Western Sydney that we we are investigating and the guys literally just posting on his Instagram just Mercedes luxury cars like just just just drink and do the tape top yeah he's literally doing I mean, I'm going to educate edits in his own Mercedes. He's posting like drone shots of him driving in his luxury Mercedes down the streets. And then we just think like, why even work? Why should anyone even work in Australia when there's just this massive, yeah, fraud scheme that everyone can defraud? - And this is the stuff that you're seeing just in that area. So you multiply it over and over. - I'm multiple, I've crossed the entire nation. - Yeah, they can't. - We've only dealt with a couple. We've mainly just dealt with a couple of suburbs of Brisbane and Sydney. Like we've just, we've not even scratched the surface. - Melbourne's probably another big one. - Yeah, we've got a look at Melbourne. We haven't even gone to Melbourne yet. As we say, like we'll probably be doing like five or six big videos about this, I think. - Yeah, we're honestly not, we're not stopping until they legitimately do something about it. We want them to actually say something about it. We're not stopping until that up. - You started like a website where people could give their feedback, could have their say. We're going to open up our show too and our social media to all that. Let's work together on trying to get something done, right? - Yes. - I'll say, Carl, let me predict this now. Let me predict this now. I know what Anthony Albanese is going to say. Eventually, we're going to keep on doing these videos and they're eventually going to get too big for him to ignore. And I know already, I know Alba's mindset. He won't ever use that name ever. He'll just go, I know there are two blocks in, you know, this online disinformation and they're targeting out innocent multicultural migrants. And there's no place for this disunity to show. He won't use that name. 100% he won't use that name. 100% he'll use that name. - Yeah, but when is this going to happen? - When is it going to happen? - Yeah, I think this target calling it right now within the next six months, Alba will indirectly address us. He won't dare use our name 'cause he'll think in his head, I don't want to give them attention. So he's going to say, I'm aware of disinformation on the internet and a lot of online misinformation, targeting these migrants. - I think I know who you're talking about. The people he won't mention already. - Yeah, big chocky and two walks out. - Yeah, look, he will never mention us in a hundred years. - But let us set a target for, you know, if somebody closer than six months. - We've got 35,000 signatures for a petition into the end. We've got 35,000 petition signatories calling for a full national inter corruption commission investigation. We'll keep on, keep on vlogging this until we get mass change. And yeah, we will get it to the point where Alba and Easy has to address us. I know, lock it in right now. He will not use our name. He'll go, I'm just aware of this online reports of misinformation. - That's what it will be. - Is it draining doing this? - I mean, you're not getting paid for it. - No, you got to be a crowdfunding. How much crowdfunding did you get? - Well, we've got, we've raised more than 50,000. - 50, but that you cost everything. - Oh, the big deal is so bad. We're spending $1,000 a day on security. Where's the city? - Yeah, yeah. - We've got these two massive Pacific Island the folks who are awesome, cool guys. And they literally protect us. - Why do you need that security? - I will get bashed, obviously, 100%. - Well, you know, a lot of people, especially in the areas that we obviously filmed in the first video, if they see us in the street, anything good happens. - And look, I've also been like a pretty high profile critic of Islamic extremism in this country. Like, I started a petition to shut down the El Medina Dawa Center in Western Sydney, the place that ratified the Bondi shooter. And like, after that, the guy linked to that center, the sort of ISIS clerical with Sim Hadad who helped rataclize the shooter. He was sending me death threats. He was saying, "I know where Dura goes to GM." And like, he was posting online stuff about me, like, trying to say, like, "We know where Dura goes to GM." So, there's a lot of people, there are a lot of people threatening us. - Yeah, well, we've even received, obviously, legal letters from the first people. - We receive more than five legal letters. - Legal letters and then. - It's from who? - Although, the NDIS providers. - Yeah, pretty much, yeah. All of them from the last video. - Yeah. - So, they're often from bushlois. Like, I honestly, so far, I've not been too worried. - Yeah. - We do want to check every-- - We always check it with our lawyers, obviously. - Yeah. - They often, what they'll do is, like, they'll write to us and they'll say, like, "We demand you take down the video and send us 10 down dollars." And then we'd go, "Delete, inbox, delete." - And then there was another one saying that they get a sender to jail essentially for five years potentially. - So they said that we were saying that we illegally breached the surveillance act of New South Wales and they will report us the police and get us imprisoned for five years. - Yeah, again, if they want to mar this, if the government is shooting us to try, if the New South Wales government is shooting up to try mar it or us like that, we will take it. I will literally go to jail if we have to. - You guys have basically did the modern day untouchables. Maybe that's a movie you haven't seen. - No, actually, I haven't seen it. - Oh no, it's showing Carl's age now. - Oh, no. - It's putting them in. - Where was that movie? - You should watch it. You should watch it Kevin Costner, Sean Connery, it's an incredible film, Robert De Niro. But at the end of the day, they were trying to get Al Capone and Al Capone did a lot of bad shit, right? But in the end, this team got him for fraud. So whatever way you guys go and however you're gonna do it, it's gonna be difficult. - Yes. - Because you gotta get him legally. - We're in a good position, Carl, because I think the main reason that the mainstream media can't do this is obviously like, we have such weak defamation laws in Australia. I mean, no, we have such powerful defamation laws in Australia where free speech protections are so weak. And so I think a lot of mainstream media, if they went to some of these business stuff, they're obviously facing massive legal threats. Whereas, like, me and Pete, we don't have any money to our names. So what are these people gonna do? Like, I've got like what? - We've got a couple cents to our name. That's a good idea. - What are they gonna do? Like, bankrupt does, okay, I'm already bankrupt. What are you gonna do? So we're in a good position. But they threaten us, it's okay. - But this is since the. - Right, right. - Also, since the video, a lot of my audience has obviously gone to the NDIS pages, the official pages, and they keep deleting and censoring the comments of people saying, we want you to look in, we demand you to look into it. They keep removing all the comments, disabling them, deleting them. - You're another good one. - So news.com.au, we were talking to a reporter there. He was doing a story about it. He went to the NDIS, and their official media was complaining about us saying that we were not proper journalists, we hadn't given them the proper right of reply. They were basically mad that we were doing what we were doing. I don't know why they'd be mad that we're doing what we're doing. They said, they apparently said that we had interfered with ongoing investigations, as I mentioned earlier, literally less than 1% of all four cases ever got prosecuted. So what ones are we interfering with? I don't think. - Let me tell you something. The media is changing and it's changing fast, right? - Yes. - I think you guys, I've spoken to, I've heard it, I've seen your hearts on it. I think you're having an almost fun, but you're also, you know, you're trying to do something good. - Yeah. - You know, you're trying to make sure you don't support it. You can find a happy home here on the Cal State Commission. - We love the Cal State. - I love the Cal State. - It's a great show. - No. - We wanted to be the Joe Rogan of Australia, we need it. - Yeah. - We actually need it. - Joe Bogan. - Joe Bogan. - Yeah, Joe Bogan. - Carl Sevener. - Yeah, it was funny, Carl. I've seen so much mainstream media seaving about you. They're so mad, they're so mad. They're like, what's he doing? He's starting the Joe Rogan podcast in Australia? The atmosphere? All the shit. They were seeing the Cal, they were seeing me about me too. Sorry. I was shocked, I couldn't believe it. And Sydney Morning Herald came out. It was actually a good cause. It was about the Iranian women's soccer team. And the Sydney Morning Herald came out and said, just true Pavlou folk. He's such an agitator. He's a bad bloke. He's misinformation. Well, they hate it. They hate it. And they're like, why isn't Trump retweeting the Sydney Morning Herald? He hasn't carried on the Sydney Morning Herald. We're doing our own thing. We're fortunate enough. - But we're very grateful for you having us on. Because obviously no one asks is really letting us on. We've really only gone on like one thing or two things. That's it. - Let's mainstream media see for Carl, watch good news. Seriously, let them keep going. No, it's wrong. The matter's for you. - No, I like it. It's good. It's good. Oh, you love it. - Also, I don't mind if you rule breakers. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Absolutely. - If it's further the right cause. - Yeah. - I won't be going to prison with you. But I will visit you. - Thank you for visiting us. - All right. The other thing is before we go. - Smuggling contraband. - I've got a few. (laughing) - He's gonna cut that out the corner. - No, he needs medication for his eight-year-old. - Exactly. - That's true. - Exactly. I'm always thinking. Also, the Carl Seven I've showed you a few things planned coming up in a couple months time. Love you guys to be part of it. I think what you guys are doing is modern day current affair reporters and you guys are getting right in there. - Yeah, I appreciate it. - We love the heyday of the current affair of the quarter. - Yeah. - Well, this is what we're gonna do. - Yes. - All right. - Yeah, but it's gonna be real authentic. That's what we're gonna keep. It's real and authentic. We're not backed by some big durners and all this stuff. - If Andy Jeeh wants to back us, we'd love it. - If she does, but yeah, we're crowd-minded. - But Gina Ryan, who wants to back here. - No, she doesn't, but it would be great if Andy Jeeh did. - Potentially. - No, anyone. - Listen, listen, listen. - I'll see what I can do. - No, I've got that. - No, Gina, we see what we can do. - We'll see. - Anyway. - If Andy's an Albert Easy, if you're willing to hire us, we'll take it. - If Albert Easy said, I'm gonna create a fraud task force, hire Drumpe. I'll be like, okay, Pete. - Yeah. - I'll go with the same sign out. - Let's do it. - I need two star reporters on the Cal Steffanovic show. - You guys up for it. - We'll consider it. - I will not consider it. - We'll consider it, Colin. We'll see about it. - We don't pay a lot, but we've got a legal department. - Yeah, I'll look about it. That's good. - If that's included, we may actually take this. - Andy can make money wherever you want outside. - Okay. - We'll investigate this. We'll investigate this for sure. - That could be a big potential, actually. - Yeah. - We'll consider it. - Yeah, we'll consider this. - Being good chat and cheer. - Yeah, Colin. - Love you, I love you, Renner Jean. - Thank you. - Thank you. - It's very grateful for having us on this. - Thank you so much. - Thanks for coming. - Subscribe to the show. - Yes, subscribe.