NBC News anchor Vicky Nguyen: From Vietnamese refugee to TODAY Show

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How fortunate are we that we wake up every day and we get to go to work, our kids get to go to school, you know, we get to have a commute or whatever those things are that a lot of times people say, oh, I have to do this or I have to do that. I think of it a lot as, no, I get to do these things. And so that attitude of gratitude, it makes everything that much easier. And I definitely get that from my parents. They are not complainers, you know, like they have faced a lot of discrimination and adversity in their lives, but I've never heard them complain about it. I've always just kind of watched them find a way over the obstacle, through the obstacle, around the obstacle. And a lot of that rubbed off on me. And, you know, in a business as competitive and demanding as ours, it can be easy to let your setbacks define you and to be discouraged because there's just so much competition and it's so tough. But I've learned that you just keep. You're doing the best that you can with the job at hand and it will lead you to good places. 100%. That can-do attitude very much instilled from the get-go. Yep. Listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit at Indeed. Need a hiring hero? With Share My Trip from Uber, you can send your live trip location to the ones who matter most. Like Dan and Hannah, who always wait up to make sure their daughter gets back to her college dorm room. Or Tiffany, who's running late as usual and her friends are tracking her trip to make sure she's actually on her way. Look, she's right there. She's three minutes away. Or Sam, who never goes anywhere without her roommate knowing exactly where she is. Some journeys are meant to be shared. Share your ride in real time with Share My Trip on Uber. One more way Uber is putting safety at every turn. Learn more on the Uber app. And what do you remember, Vicky, about your earliest years growing up once you did get to the U.S.? Was it hard to balance the two cultures? For sure. And I think back then, too, I grew up in mostly white communities. So there really weren't any, a lot of Asian kids, let alone any Vietnamese kids around me. And I was an only child. So a lot of what I learned about American culture, I learned through books. I mean, I read everything I could get my hands on. I love the library. I love the Babysitter's Club, Sweet Valley Twins, all the Roald Dahl books, Beverly Cleary, Judy Blume, like all of those things really kind of formed a little friendship circle around me and also taught me about what it was to be like an American kid. And then, you know, just by virtue of my parents being who they are, I always understood my Vietnamese culture and had like a strong connection to it. It wasn't for me something to celebrate. It was something that set me aside and made me different. And as a kid, I don't think I appreciated it as much because as a kid, all you want to do is fit in. But over time, and as I raised my own kids biculturally now, I am so grateful that they get to have a whole nother, you know, language, culture, food, holidays, just principles, values, you know, to celebrate. And hopefully they're taking the best of all the worlds that they're a part of. Well, fast forward to your time in the world. You stayed in the Bay Area, went to college at the University of San Francisco initially. What first drew you to journalism? Was there a specific moment where you thought, OK, this is it. This is what I want to be doing. You know, it's so funny because I really do admire people who have had this goal since they were little, watched the news growing up, always wanted to be a broadcast journalist or just knew their path in life. That was not the case for me. I went through a lot of things I thought I wanted to do, like from being a veterinarian to being a heart surgeon to being a physical therapist. I kind of always was in that realm of medicine because I liked biology, I liked sciences, and also everyone around me was like a doctor, a lawyer, an engineer. You know, those were like Asian approved choice, Asian approved choices. Exactly. Those were the acceptable careers. And it wasn't until midway through college that I met someone. His name was Tuan Lam. He's a dear friend to this day, but he was just this really outgoing, charismatic, curious Chinese-American guy, Chinese-Vietnamese-American guy. And he was doing all these internships at the local TV station. And I just was chatting with him like, "Wow, like how did you learn about that? How do you pursue a career as a broadcast journalist?" And he just made it seem so possible and accessible and gave me sort of the step-by-step guide, like this is what you do. And I had watched news before. We even had like a Vietnamese-American reporter on, at the time, the Fox station in the Bay Area. Her name was Thuy Vu. And I knew who she was and I watched her and I admired her greatly. I just didn't think that that was something I could ever do until I met someone. Someone like me, a peer, a sophomore in college who was doing it. And I thought, "You know what? Let me take a chance." And then once I started, I think I just stuck with it because I'm stubborn, number one. And number two, I didn't know that there would be an off-ramp. Like there were a lot of things happening for me in my life from college into the beginning of my career where I just felt like I have got to make it. I don't have a choice. I need to be financially successful. I need to be, you know, able to provide for my family. And so I'm going to do whatever it takes. And sometimes when your back is against the wall, that pressure can create a diamond. And I think I was lucky, looking back, that I went through it the way that I did. Where you realized just failure is not an option here. Right. Yes. Yeah, absolutely. Some people falter under that pressure, but you don't seem like that kind at all. I mean, I definitely was not -- I made my fair share of mistakes. I definitely didn't do everything perfectly and correctly and didn't have a lot of guidance. I had to figure a lot of things out on my own. But I think that is what helped me build the armor that I have now. Yes. And I think that is what made me the person that I am today. freeing. Well, you landed your first internship at a pretty big place, the SF Bureau of CNN, my former professional. Yes. Can imagine how excited you must have been, though I do know you later described it as a relatively unsettling experience, right, where people were maybe a little bit gruff and not particularly friendly or inclusive. They just didn't really have time for interns is how you put it, I think. Yeah. So what did you think at that point about staying in the field? You know, that's so funny because I was such an abject failure in that first internship. I will say I thought all I did was answer the phones. I mean, the thing that I did best there was say, CNN, San Francisco, this is Vicky. How may I direct your call? I was so intimidated by these veteran journalists. Everybody's hustling and bustling and going here and there. And, you know, people aren't there to hold your hand. And so I was just kind of like a wallflower watching all the things happen around me. I think I maybe mustered up the courage, like to ask to go out with a reporter once or twice during the whole several months that I was in the field. And I think that's what I did. And I think after that experience and talking to my friend, Tuan, and sort of recognizing like, okay, what could I have done better? How could I have been more assertive? How could I have like made more of my time at this internship? I went into the next internship with a different attitude. Like, okay, be as helpful as you can. Don't be embarrassed to ask to go on shoots. Make yourself available. Just get involved. Because if you don't get on the dance floor, no one's going to ask you to dance, right? And that really opened up my mind. And I think it opened up a world to me of, okay, so this is how I can make the most of my time. But I think I probably needed more credits. I probably needed to do at least one more internship. So failure was not an option. And I just said, I think I can do better. And so that helped me, thankfully, to recover from that CNN experience. Oh, no, I'm sure it wasn't that bad. But it's a great lesson, right? Make yourself known. Yeah. Get out of your comfort zone. Absolutely. You've since worked across local markets all over the country. Before landing at NBC News. What would you say then was your big break, you know, or turning point that really changed the game for you? I mean, gosh, it's so interesting. Looking back, I know for a fact that there was a series of investigative reports that I did that really put me on the map when I was in local news, working at NBC Bay Area, and got the attention of the executives at the network of NBC News at 30 Rock. And it was a series of investigations. I talk about, you know, I'm a journalist, I'm a journalist, I talk about it in the book. We did an undercover investigation into the food company Cisco, S-Y-S-C-O, not Cisco, the software company. And they are the like, one of the largest food service providers in all of North America. They provide the food to restaurants, schools, hospitals, you name it. Cisco food is, you know, everywhere. And we had gotten a whistleblower tip that the salespeople were storing food in outdoor sheds on the ground, which is a total violation of all sorts of food safety practices, because food is supposed to be kept at a certain temperature. These were perishable things like raw chicken, raw pork, dairy, seafood. And they were, it was all being stored in outdoor sheds where like, you know, mice and rats and rodents and all sorts of like, you know, critters could get to them, not to mention not temperature controlled. So we documented it. It led to a $20 million consumer settlement, the largest in California like Cisco, but it was a statement settlement. Nonetheless, they apologize. They invested in a bunch of new refrigerated trucks. But it was that series of investigations, it won a national Emmy. And it just put me on the map for the executives at the network. But it wasn't until several years later that an opportunity became available at the network. And so I would say that just doing the work at that time to the best of my ability, and then later when the opportunity opened, those two things were the biggest turning point that got me from local news into network news. But I loved my time at local news. I'm so grateful for everything I learned. And because I was in local news for so long and came to the network at age 40 with three kids, I was like a fully formed person at that point. And I think it just helped me so much to hit the ground running when I got onto the big stage. And I felt like I was ready. And I was just like, wow, this happened for me at the time that, at the best time it possibly could have happened for me. I feel like I can so relate to so much of what you've said. I went to Jay's school and I had several classmates that actually, some of them are even still now doing their time 10 years after graduating. And they're in some of the, maybe some of the smaller markets that they might have hoped to have graduated from already, like places like South Dakota, or some people have now made their way to like Miami and Atlanta, which is already amazing. But so many of my peers, I think, are still very much trying to climb. So it's really helpful to hear what helped you through that. I guess one particular piece also that really stood out to me was you did an investigation back in the Bay Area on public bus drivers being attacked. For those who don't know, tell us a bit more about that case. It must have been another moment where you really felt like your reporting made a tangible difference. Yes, that was a deeply satisfying investigative series with my dear friend and a colleague I respect so much. His name is Kevin Niasse. He and I worked together in local in the Bay Area, and now he works for the L.A. Bureau of NBC News, the network. So it's been great for us to like have our careers sort of mirror each other and, you know, go from local to the network together. But we did a series exposing the violent attacks. That bus drivers at AC Transit were facing that bus line that serves Oakland Bay Area community. And, you know, bus drivers are it's more than just a job. A lot of these bus drivers, they're driving school kids around. They're driving elderly people around. They are such an integral part of the community, and they love their jobs because of the access they're providing to people and getting people where they need to go. Their doctor's appointments to classes to their jobs. But they were also facing. A lot of like scary moments that were all caught on camera, by the way. People spitting on them, hitting them, beating them with canes, threatening them. I mean, just a lot of things that you would a very hostile working environment, a dangerous working environment and what they were experiencing and what was documented in videos was not at all. What was being reported to the public was not reflected in the data and the information that was being presented to the city council and city leaders. And so what we did was we compared the number of incidents caught on video and the reports of violence against drivers to what was publicly being told to the community at meetings and whatnot. And then we interviewed drivers who were like, this is what I go through on a daily basis. You know, this is what I like. This is why I'm scared for my life, but I want to do my job. I, you know, I need protection and it resulted in a lot of changes to the agency and better protections for the drivers, including shields that were installed so that drivers could do their jobs. In in safety. Yeah. And so I am so happy we did that because it gave a voice to these drivers who were previously being ignored or their concerns were not being taken seriously. And ultimately, when drivers are safe, so is the public. Right. Like because, you know, they're they're able to do their jobs and not worry about someone attacking them. But, yeah, that story ended up winning a DuPont award, which is sort of like the Pulitzer of broadcast news. And. When I came out to collect the DuPont award, I also did a series of interviews at NBC News. So there were just so many stars that aligned. And for your friends who went to J school or are still like working in local news and trying to climb the ladder and wondering when they're going to make it, I would just say this advice for them, but also for like anyone in a field where you're like, am I ever going to get where I think I want to go? You will. You absolutely will. But you don't know when it's going to happen for you and you can't control it. But what you can control. Is truly doing turning in the best paper that you can, the best story that you can finishing the project in the best way that you know how and treating the people around you with the most dignity and respect and just putting that energy out there. It's going to come back to you in spades. So don't fret about all the things that you cannot control. Focus on what you can, which is the quality of your work product and how you show up in the world. And it will work out. Yeah. It gives your job post the boost it needs to be seen and helps reach people with the right skills, certifications and more. Need a hiring hero? Like Dan and Hannah, who always wait up to make sure you're in the right place. And make sure their daughter gets back to her college dorm room. Or Tiffany, who's running late as usual. And her friends are tracking her trip to make sure she's actually on her way. As journalists, we all seek to make an impact, right? But of course, with the demands of daily news. That's not what everyone gets to do every day, right? You've got to cover what's happening in real time. How did you make that transition when it came to investigative reporting? And are there any other favorite stories that really come to mind? So I was a general assignment reporter for many, many years, right? Like you do the who, what, when, where, why. You show up. It's breaking news. There's been a shooting. There's a wildfire. There's a mudslide. You got to go. You got to do the thing. You have no control over what's happening. And then here and there, I would pitch ideas for just, you know, special projects. Or different stories that we could promote. And then producers would come to me because I would say yes if they had an idea. And sometimes it did require working in the margins a little. Like you get your live breaking news assignments done for the day. And then maybe you came in an hour early to do that one extra interview. Or you stayed an hour late to do the other interview. Or to write the story. Whatever it took. Working in the margins developed a reputation for me that like, oh, if you want something done and done well, go to Vicky. She'll figure it out. She'll find a way. She'll make it happen. She'll get it done. She'll get it done. Right. And so when an opening came up for a special projects reporter, they just came to me and said, hey, would you like to do this? Because they had already sort of seen me doing it. So, like, I think that that is good advice for anything that you're doing. If you can do a little bit extra. If you can rise to the occasion. If you can show that you're capable of different things. There are so many things around the corner that are happening in a workplace at any given time that you'll never know about. But your bosses are watching. Your coworkers are watching. Your team is watching. Your team leaders are watching. And then when that door opens, they're like, oh, you know what? Let's bring Michelle in. Let's bring Vicky in. Because you've already been doing it. And so that was how I got into special projects reporting. And then when they formed an investigative unit, they asked me to join that. And it was literally just an extension of, like, doing what I did and doing it to the best of my ability and being ready when the time came. Absolutely. And also, if you see a position that you know that you want and you think you can do it, go for it. Yeah. Even if it's a stretch. If it's a stretch assignment, go for it. You know, you will rise to the occasion. You'll figure it out. It's so true that you should always, if you want to change your job, you should try to find a way to make that job yours already and be seen doing that job. Totally. I remember before I became a reporter at CNN, I was doing, you know, digital production. They call it programming. It's like a euphemism for digital production. And I would volunteer to write news stories that they didn't have hands for, which was pretty much all the time because there was so much news every single day. And after, I think, a year. A year and a half of doing that, just like on the side for free, the bosses were like, you don't have to keep doing this. You know, we see you. How would you like a promotion? How would you like to come back to editorial fully? Amazing. You know, so I totally get what you're saying. And you just find a way to make it work if you want it badly enough. If you want it badly enough. Exactly. You learn and you're always, you know, when you're doing those stretch assignments, doing a little bit extra, it benefits you. It helps you build your own portfolio of skills as well. Yeah, absolutely. Well, we're reflecting on your career. Has there been a mistake you've made on the job? Big or small? Big or small that taught you something really important? I mean, I've made, I'm sure, many mistakes. I try not to make mistakes when it comes to the factual reporting aspect of what I do. Of course. I try not to make a mistake when I am interviewing people and trying to be respectful to them. Because there was a time when we were covering, you know, veterans who were being killed overseas during the Afghanistan war. Or, you know, we would be going to people's houses on, like, the worst day of their lives because they had lost a family member for whatever reason. And through those experiences, I certainly learned how you can cover the news and be a journalist, but be a human being first. And so I tried really hard not to make those human errors and tried to treat people the way I'd want somebody to treat my own mom. But I would say that one of the biggest learning experiences for me I covered in the chapter called The Hot Intern in the book, Boat Baby. Because that was a turning point for me. I was a reporter at the Fox station in Phoenix, Arizona. at the time and I regularly had interns coming through and they'd come through for a few months and they'd come with me on my shoots and I would make sure that they got to shoot their stand-ups which is as you know when you go onto a scene the photographer takes video of you and you kind of say a little bit of something about like as you can see the power lines came down in the storm last night and they're sprawled across the street here you know whatever you're just trying to make a resume tape and so interns need that on-camera experience as much as possible I would always coach them I would always help them until I got this one intern and she was like five foot nine a gorgeous blonde woman who was literally like a pageant winner like she had won like Miss Maricopa County or something like that right and by the way not only was she a pageant winner she was also a personal fitness model as her job and so I was like uh okay I'm not like she had to me all the time you know good looking smart and I just found myself not being as helpful to her as I had been to all my other interns like I would still take her out on shoots I wasn't mean to her or anything but I just wasn't getting out of the truck and like coaching her I'd be like okay go shoot your stand-ups I'll be here and just you know on my phone or whatever I was doing she did her internship she left and I just remember when she left I felt like wow that was that was ugly like why did I treat her not kind as kindly as I treated all my other interns and I just remember when she left I remember when she left I just remember when she left I was like why did I treat her not kind as kindly as I treated all my other interns and I was like you know I was jealous of her I was threatened by her and it was such a ugly feeling it did not feel like who I was or who I wanted to be and I just remember thinking in that moment like I I won't get a chance to apologize to her I don't know her like I don't remember her name now I hope she reads the book someday and like lets me give her a proper apology but in that moment I said to myself I'm never gonna treat somebody like that again because I'm not gonna be a five foot nine blonde woman right like she's gonna go on to be successful and I'm not gonna be a five foot nine blonde woman right like she's gonna go on to be successful and do whatever it is that she's gonna do her success doesn't take away from my success and I need to like not worry about that right let that go let her be the best at being herself I'll be the best at being myself and and there's enough to go around for everyone and thank God I recognized that in my 20s because it has helped me so much in my career I celebrate other people's success especially other women's success especially other women of color because I can relate to them deeply I know the challenges that they've faced and I know the challenges that they've overcome and I just recognize it's not a zero-sum game and that was a big epiphany for me early on in a career that is very visual that is very competitive that you see where everyone is at all times oh my gosh Michelle she's at CNN I'm still in local you know oh Michelle she won this award I didn't win this or you could do that to yourself and compare and despair all day long but if you just run your own race and you compete against yourself and you try to be better than you were yesterday that's the best headspace to be in frankly and that honestly is what I think has propelled me to where I am today is I'm not busy worried about all these other people and what everyone else is doing I'm just focused on me my family what can I do how do I make my corner of the Earth better and it's absolutely worked out thousand percent you realize that comparison is a thief of joy totally and the what you said about realizing it's not a zero-sum game really resonates with me because that was something I felt like I really um had to remind myself of so many times over the years and now a quick word about our sponsor factor it's officially fall which means we're all getting back in the swing of things and I couldn't be busier so finding time to cook can be tough and that's why I love factor they deliver chef prep dietitian approved meals right to your door and I just finished my first week it makes it so easy for me to always have something healthy and healthy and I'm personally not a meal prepper because I can't stand eating the same thing for a week so I was really excited to see how many options factor has from smoky Gouda chicken to truffle butter filet mignon eat smart at factor meals.com slash btb50 off and use code btb50 off to get 50 off your first box plus free breakfast for one year that's code btb50 off at factor meals.com for 50 off your first box plus free breakfast for one year get delicious ready to eat meals delivered with factor this offer is only valid for new factor customers with the code and qualifying auto renewing subscription purchases at the same time you know conversely one of my mentors at CNN is actually really amazing woman called Christy Lou Stout and she's kind of like the face of CNN Asia she's been an anchor for like 25 years and just really amazing we get on really well but she would always tell me that you know just because there's one of us here doesn't mean there can only be one of us like men don't think that way whatsoever no way how many white men are there in every kind of position and they're not like oh no more white guys here yeah exactly so I always wondered where that came from and maybe part of it is a scarcity mindset you know a lot of like immigrant families and stuff totally um so much unpacked there but conditioning of women and you know the competition between women and all of it I totally agree and I'm so happy that you're breaking the cycle I'm trying to break the cycle because there's room for so many of us and the more the merrier absolutely well working in the most demanding environments there is how do you deal with the pressure you know are there certain small ways that you like to set yourself up for success behind the scenes whether it's through a grounding morning routine or any kind of like even small ritual before a big event the operation is everything I think my confidence comes from being as ready as possible for any situation and news is one of those where you inevitably will walk into a lot of situations that are volatile unpredictable you don't know what to expect and so you have to embrace it I am glad that I've gotten the conditioning that I have that uh life is full of changes news is full of changes and the more adaptable you are and adaptive you can be I think the easier you can take everything in stride so for me the ritual is just making sure I know my subject matter the best that I can and to have faith in the fact that I've been doing this for 25 years and I will figure it out and that like I don't strive for perfection you know I just strive to be human I try to ask the questions I think the viewers are going to have at home and I do my best and I forget the rest yeah I think that's like a mantra that my kids taught me that they learned in like elementary school but I just love it because that's all that we really can do yeah you're full of these good kickers today it's very broadcast of you um let's talk money um Vicky you've been remarkably open about the importance of knowing your worth and navigating the workplace um once while negotiating your contract you had a colleague tell you to ask for way more and literally take out his own contract to show you his exact salary yeah you called it one of the most surprising and life-changing things anyone's ever done for me how so I mean there is nothing like seeing black and white numbers when it comes to negotiating for yourself and thanks to Mika Brzezinski and her whole campaign for women to know your value um I have always tried to be a proponent for everyone I know to share information because knowledge is power and to do your homework so that when you have to go in and advocate for yourself and negotiate for yourself that you have real data numbers to back it up in some businesses it's much easier to do right like in finance you can say I've brought an X number of dollars of business therefore I should be making X number of dollars as a percentage broadcast is a lot more gray most of these professions are really gray so to the extent possible that you can form alliances with your colleagues that are willing to share that information it's great in states where they have salary transparency laws that's fantastic it's so empowering to workers and also like I think you don't necessarily have to know exactly what your peers make dollar for dollar in the same job that can make it a little bit awkward but you can ask someone who is 10 years ahead of you in the game hey when you were in my job 10 years ago what was a ballpark range for you know a person to be making and does that make sense because sometimes the number can knock your socks off like it did for me my colleague was incredible I call him Angel in the book because he did not hesitate to tell me what he thought my value was how good of a job he thought I was doing and then to back it up by pulling his contract out of a file cabinet and literally showing me and he was making like 50 000 more than I was for I mean at the time we were doing very comparable work um arguably my work was more essential to the station at the time because the whole branding of the station was around the investigative unit and I was like a leading member of that team so because he was so open and transparent with me it gave me all the chutzpah and data and confidence I needed to go in there like full you know with my full chest out saying like hey this is what I'm worth this is what I deserve this is what I'm asking for and I I was lucky too because at the time eventually I did have a counter offer from somewhere else so I had leverage and I had knowledge and when you can negotiate from a position of power like that things are going to go better for you yeah and it's up to you to collect that data it's up to you to form those relationships and it's up to you to also share you know this isn't just information is a two-way exchange and so there are many ways that we can help each other in the workforce and I'm I purposely wrote very transparently about that because I do think that so many of us are undervalued for what we do yes and we have some responsibility in that companies have a lot of responsibility in that and properly paying employees as well. It really struck me because several years ago when you were still working in local news, CNN offered you a correspondent position for you actually disclosed between $215,000 to $235,000 a year. Though it would have meant packing your bags, moving, uprooting your family. I believe you said that, you know, it sounds like a lot and it is. But the cost of living in New York and LA plus the expense of relocating meant the offer wasn't make me move money. I think people would be surprised to hear you ultimately turn that offer down despite it being, I think it's fair to say, a huge jump in your career at the time. Yes. And obviously no guarantee of another network job lined up. Right. How tough was that decision? It was very tough. We spent a whole spring break in San Diego. We were traveling with another family at the time that the offer came. So I was very distracted because, you know, like you've got this job offer. You need to make a decision. They're not going to wait forever. And it was the first network job offer I'd ever gotten. And at the time I had two daughters and I was like in my late 30s. And, you know, I thought time is ticking. I don't know if I'm ever going to get another network offer. But the job ultimately wasn't the best fit for our family. You know, my husband had a great job that he loved. I really loved my investigative reporting job in the Bay Area. And I felt like I had a longer runway. I still felt like I was growing and learning, even though it was in local news. I had so much autonomy. I was doing really impactful stories. And so, yes, CNN is CNN. And it's the network. And, you know, it was an incredible opportunity. But ultimately, I wouldn't have had my third daughter if I had gone to the network. I'm sure I would have been too busy. I would have been living out of a suitcase. I would have been a general assignment reporter sort of responding to breaking news. But instead of only doing it in Northern California, I would have been in an airplane flying all over the place. And lo and behold, I stayed. I had my third daughter. And then my dream job became available. The job that I'm working in. And so that's what I mean when it's like, you've got to go with your gut, make the decisions that are the best for you in the moment and not stress too much about like the what ifs, right? And at that time, it was a lot of pros and cons. It was a lot of back and forth. My husband was a great sounding board. And ultimately, we decided it wasn't worth it. It wasn't going to be worth the sacrifice of making all of these changes. And it wasn't a job that would have allowed me to do the life changing reporting that I was already doing. And so I was like, I'm going to do this. I'm going to be doing it, you know, as an investigative journalist at NBC Bay Area. Yeah, you spoke about balancing priorities as a working mom with a family to think about and the lifestyle you wanted at that point. Do you think over the years, you came to redefine what personal success really meant to you? Oh, for sure. I mean, I just heard golfer Scotty Scheffler give this press conference and it's been going viral. Because he talks about he loves golf, he loves playing for the championships and winning. But all of that excitement, he was like, it lasts like two minutes. You know, it's like, okay, I won this cup, I won this open, I won this whatever. And then, you know, a few minutes later, it's like, what are we having for dinner tonight? Like, life goes on. And while it is exciting to accomplish your goals, you cannot get your fulfillment from external validators, right? And I agree with him wholeheartedly. And I feel glad that I also sort of recognized that early on, work hard, enjoy what you do, try to make a difference. But don't use awards and external markers to measure your worth. My worth comes from what kind of a mom am I? What kind of a wife am I? What kind of a daughter am I? What kind of a person am I in my community? And what am I doing for the people around me? Because we know this is a very volatile industry. Things come and go. And you can't let your work. Define who you are. Because that can be sort of an empty way to live. You should find that satisfaction and fulfillment from the purpose driven life that you're leading. And I think when you turn that introspection in inward, it's just so much more validating than trying to get to the next mountaintop. Do it great. Do it for you know, for for the exercise of it. Sure. And enjoy those those accomplishments. But don't let them define who you are. Need a hiring hero? This is the Indeed.com podcast. On any journey using Uber, it helps to know you're getting into the right car. PIN verification adds an extra step to make sure your ride is your ride. Before the trip begins, your app gives you a unique PIN. Just tell it to your driver and they'll enter it in their app before the ride can start. Hey, what's your PIN? 2538. That way, you know you're in the right car taking the right trip and your driver knows you're the right passenger. Make sure your ride is your ride with PIN verification from Uber. One more way Uber is putting safety first. Yeah. What's been one of the hardest days of your whole career? I definitely know a hard period. And I would say that it really did have to do with towards we were in the pandemic and we were reporting and it was just watching the rise in anti-Asian discrimination. And then the Atlanta spa shootings happened. And these women were all targeted by a mass shooter, a psychopath. And they were all Asian women just literally who had showed up at their jobs to make to earn a living for their families. And I remember that being a really tough period of time because not only is everyone dealing with the pandemic blues and just like the isolation and the lack of human connection and the uncertainty of living in a worldwide pandemic. But then I was seeing people who look like my parents, people who look like me being yelled at in the streets with racist insults, being physically attacked, elderly people being pushed down, being killed for being Asian and, you know, being associated with the coronavirus. And I think that was probably the most challenging time of being an Asian American reporter in New York City, ground zero, and trying to come to grips with like, how much of myself am I allowed to bring into my reporting? How much of my identity, you know, like, is everybody seeing this happening? What's my responsibility to make sure that these stories are being covered, that this FBI data that yes, indeed, there is a spike in hate against Asian Americans, that we are doing our part because, you know, I had never really done a lot of identity reporting. I've always lived my life and also worked in my career as like, you are not the story. You are there to cover the story. And so this was a blending of, you know, how do you do that? Because you are a part of the community. But sometimes being from the community makes you even more equipped to cover it, like in the most thoughtful and nuanced way. And so that was both a dark time, but also a hard time. And so I think that was a really, really, really, really, really, great moment of evolution for me as a journalist and as a person. 100%. Let's talk about the book. I think a huge reason that you've resonated so much with audiences that you really open up and go there, where many people frankly wouldn't, right? I mean, you've shared everything from crying on a plane after an argument with your dad to tough conversations with bosses to intimate family moments. Has it ever felt uncomfortable being that open? I think that it's very on brand for me in my life, because that's just how I have always lived my life. I'm not a good poker face. I'm not a bluffer. You know how I feel because I do wear my heart on my sleeve. And I have found for me, being open, being transparent, sharing my vulnerabilities. It's not only who I am, but I like greeting the world in that way, because I feel like it fosters deeper connections. And I hate small talk. I hate surface conversations. I like to talk to people. I like to have conversations with people. I like to get in and get in deep and get in quick, because you have so much I can learn from. And I might have some things to teach you. And we're never going to get there if all we do is like, oh, you know, how about the Yankees or like, you know, that's a nice dress. Great. The pleasantries are fine. But like, then let's talk about what makes you tick. How did you get to be where you are? What was your upbringing like? Those are the meaningful conversations. And because I have these three daughters, and I get to meet so many interesting people that I wouldn't otherwise cross paths with, because of what I do. I love getting into it with them. Like, what do you think? What did you study? You know, what was your childhood like? Because then I get to go home and share those stories with my girls, and by extension, educate them about all the different kinds of people and lives that are possible to live in this one great life that you have. And so for me, the quickest way to get from A to B is to do it with honesty and being open. And so I don't really have a problem with that. Like, it's just kind of like the way that I live. Yeah. Well, looking ahead, what's the end game for you here? If we were to sit back, down and say 10, 20 years, what would you want to be saying? Where would you want to be? It's so interesting. I do believe in like having a dream board and trying to manifest. I think that's so cool, like the vision board and all of that. And I just recently made one like a few years ago. And I look at it, and I'm like, wow, a fair amount of these things actually happen. So I'm all for that. I also love what you were saying about just leaving space and being open and allowing good things to come into your life. Because you can't plan for everything, and it's okay to have some of those question marks, because sometimes those question marks and dreams and things that come true are bigger than anything that you could have even have dreamt yourself that's happened for me so many times so i would like to say that in 10 to 20 years i hope that i continue to be healthy my family continues to be healthy that my daughters grow into caring kind compassionate curious people um and then i i feel as much love for what i'm doing in my job as i do now like i feel very fortunate and love what i do the interviews i get to do the stories i get to tell the people i get to work with i am very in love with this job and it was a huge risk to take it six years ago and to move my whole family from california to new york including my parents and it was a gamble but i think every day that the gamble is paying off and i'm super happy that this is like what i'm doing so i i hope to continue doing this and it may be in the form of continued broadcasting and anchoring and reporting it may be in the form of podcasting it could be another book i leave all of those content possibilities open um i just hope to continue building an audience and continuing to put information out there that helps people in their lives it's really inspiring um what does it mean to be a vietnamese american woman in a national newsroom particularly knowing how far your family came to get here i noticed in a testimonial for your book fellow nbc anchor savannah guthrie said you actually personified a lot of the things that you've been doing for a long time you've been doing a lot of the things that you've been doing for a long time you've been doing a lot of the things that you've been doing for a long time you've been doing a lot of the things that you've been doing for a long time you've been doing a lot of the things that you've been doing for a long time three said you actually personify the american dream to her is that how you see it as well for sure i mean like i believe the american dream is very much alive and well and i know people are cynical and people are critical and people have all kinds of thoughts when you say american dream and what is it and and you know can people attain it but as one who is living it as one who knows what it means to have the opportunity to grow up in this country i think very much it is alive well and something that the these are the kinds of stories we should continue to tell and share and celebrate and i do believe that what makes america great is our diversity the fact that people come from different cultures and ideologies and religions and backgrounds and have different food and languages all of that is what makes the tapestry of america so rich and incredible and that diversity has led to so much incredible innovation and i think that's why people come to america because america is unlike any other place in the world that's why people want to come here and i know that the american spirit and the generosity of the american people is still alive and i refuse to take the cynical view and the cynical path because i know what my life is like and i know what it has been for me and i just hope to inspire people to continue to believe to continue to work hard towards their dreams no one's going to hand if you were born in many other countries you could work really hard and and never achieve half of what people are allowed to achieve here right and so i think it's all relative it's all perspective it's all keeping in mind that we are very fortunate to be here and we have a lot of agency and freedom and what we do with it is up to us yeah all right this brings me to a segment we're calling what it takes where an audience member gets to hear more on what it takes to get where you are today sophie a journalist based in seoul south korea asks as an asian woman working in media i'm really inspired by how you've embraced both your background and your ambition how did you confidently advocate for yourself especially when it came to we spoke about this earlier negotiating salary or pushing for bigger roles in spaces that weren't always built for someone like you and what helped you stay grounded i think that you have to practice as with anything else it is practicing by showing up at the meeting and saying i'm going to say one thing at this meeting one thing i'm going to make myself show up and make my voice heard and that's what gets you comfortable in a room with managers bosses producers your peers whoever right is by just forcing yourself to do the thing that is uncomfortable to you and then after a while it's not so uncomfortable after a while it just becomes a part of who you are there is a difference between eastern cultures and western cultures a friend of mine jessica chen who was a reporter wrote a book called like smart not loud and it talks about kind of the quiet leadership the quiet confidence the way that a lot of asian americans show up in the workplace and how different it can be from you know people from western cultures where you are loud and assertive and that's like considered normal you know and it's different from being sort of reserved and observant and respectful but there are ways for you to be successful and to bring your traits to the workplace that can help propel you forward so i would say do the things that make you feel uncomfortable learn from the people that you admire i mean schedule a coffee make yourself useful ask questions we are not all meant to have all the answers and so whenever we see people who are doing something amazing study what they're doing if they're willing to talk with you about it ask them you know how they do what they do and um collect as much of that information as possible and then form those relationships nobody gets anywhere by themselves right it's a team effort it's a team effort it's a team effort it's a team effort if angel had never shared his salary with me i never would have had the confidence to negotiate for myself but he did that because we had a relationship because we were friendly because we vented to each other talked to each other and so i think it is really putting out the great energy that you hope to receive back and building those relationships that ultimately helps you be prepared and helps you find that confidence from within and you and give yourself grace you're not going to bat a thousand all the time right but you got to get the bat up there and take the swing yes thank you vicky now we're going to end with a quick rapid fire round ready dream interview subject living or dead oh um gosh i should have there's so many people that i want to interview for so many reasons it's a hard one right now i'm a little bit obsessed with ai so i say sam altman i'd like to pick his brain yeah i'd like to pick mark zuckerberg's brain because i'm also really interested in social media and the effects that it's having on this generation of kids that's growing up and i'm really curious what mark and priscilla are doing when it comes to social media and their own kids and their own families i've gotten to interview a lot of like amazing asian american leaders um so i feel fortunate that i got to interview like natalie nikasi the first wnba coach um who's asian american um so sorry i'm really bad at rapid like you know i like to prepare but i would say yeah i would like to interview some of the thought leaders in the spaces of ai and social media because we rarely get to hear from them answering really pointed questions totally especially about the ethics of the technologies that they're spearheading biggest on-air blooper or surprise has there been one hmm i've had so many bloopers i'm sure during the pandemic for sure bloopers where like the kids come in the dogs come in and that kind of thing biggest surprise would be um when my book boat baby came out the producers of the third hour were so kind and they got my husband to record my daughters wishing me congratulations um and a little recorded message and that was very sweet oh what's something people would be surprised to learn about you well after reading boat baby not much but i think maybe as a reader you were surprised by the level of rawness and transparency with which i tell my story totally i think a lot of times people see someone on television and think oh you know you've got it all together or you're doing this or you're so polished but we're messy we're full of mess we're full of things and we're full of stuff and we're full of self-doubt we've made mistakes they're i think that the more human you can be and the more honest you can be about the mistakes and setbacks that you've experienced and what you've learned from them the deeper a connection you can make and so i think people would be surprised to learn that i have screwed a lot of things up and i've learned a lot and then i'm willing to go there yeah what's a piece of advice you often come back to be the best you that you can be it really starts there and do your best and forget the rest i find those two mantras to be extremely liberating they're great guiding forces they're grounding and they allow me to focus on the task at hand without getting too into my head or stressed about things that i can't control well said vicky thank you so much i've enjoyed this same this has been a wonderful conversation thank you so much for having me michelle thank you thanks for joining us on behind the business for more stories on business and leadership follow our show on apple podcast spotify youtube or wherever you get your podcasts see you next week on any journey using uber it helps to know you're getting into the right car pin verification adds an extra step to make sure your ride is your ride before the trip begins your app gives you a unique pin just tell it to your driver and they'll enter it in their app before the ride can start hey what's your pin 2538 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