NBA Free Agency Primer: The Main Characters of the Offseason!

Coming up on the Zach Lowe show NBA free agency officially kicks off in about 35 hours or something like that. Michael Pina from TheRinger.com is here to get into all of the biggest stories. Who are the main characters of NBA free agency slash the transaction period that is really already underway? Kauai Leonard. Will he be traded by the time this podcast drops? Jaylen Brown. What about him? LeBron James. Huh. What team's he going to be on related? What are the warriors going to do? The nuggets, the pistons, we get into just the very broad strokes, main characters, and some news that's already happened with the Knicks, the Thunder, James Harden, Fred Bambley, all of that stuff. And a bit on the Charlotte Hornets making two big trades. We did LaMelo last week over the weekend. It was Miles Bridges to Phoenix with some stuff coming back to Charlotte, including a juicy Phoenix 2033 unpretentive pick. We get into all that quick set up for free agency with Michael Pina. That's all coming up on this edition of The Zack Lo Show. Welcome to The Zack Lo Show. It's Monday morning NBA free agency starts in like 35 hours. It's been going on for a while. Things are happening, signings are happening, rumors are swirling, Michael Pina, how are you doing, sir? I'm doing great, Zack. How are you, man? I'm good. I'm ready. I've been ready. I've really never stopped being ready. Things just keep happening and from Janus until now it's been a whirlwind. We're going to get into the main characters of the next week in the NBA and it's going to be a week. It's going to be fast and furious like it always is before we get to that. Some news that I don't think is all that surprising, but if I want to hear if you have any takes on any of these things, okay? We have Isaiah Hartenstein, three years, 75 million with the thunder. They're about a slight pay cut on his annual salary for some security. Like that deal. It's a good deal. I think it's indicative that yes, he is essential to our attack against Victor Wimbanyama and the young guys that we have may not be ready yet. The next we signed Dio Wara, three years, 15 and Jose Alvarado about the same. I like both. It brings into question Mitchell Robinson and Landry Schammett as the Nick Sir perilously close to the second apron and both of those guys, particularly Mitchell Robinson have a lot of interest around the league. And just this morning Fred Van Vleet opts in to $25 million now an expiring contract with the Houston Rockets after a lost season last season when the Rockets really missed them. And James Harten, not surprisingly, opts out of his contract with the Cleveland Cavaliers and according to Shams Tronia, they are, as we all have been saying, discussing a new wolf die year deal that I'm going to guess is probably three years, 80, 90s, 100, something in that range. Is any of that interesting to you or should we just move on? You know, I think the next situation is interesting just in terms of the deals that they got done were smart. The fact that they are so hamstrung with regards to the second apron somewhat curiously is really interesting to me and we'll see, like you said, with Schammett, with Mitchell Robinson, if they'll be able to retain one, both neither, who knows, that's something to keep an eye on for sure. The Hartenstein deal real quick. I'm glad that he's staying because losing him would be kind of borderline catastrophic for the Oklahoma City Thunder. I think he's so integral to how they play and defeating the San Antonio Spurs next year. He's a huge part of that. So it's good to see him get locked up there. Yeah, I mean, look, the off season is not even close to over, but I was asked a bunch of times in the last week or so by NBA people. You know, if you had to pick one team right now, if when you go to Las Vegas to bet on who's going to win the championship next year, right now, before all the moves, I said, I think I would pick Oklahoma City. I wouldn't feel great about it, but they would be my pick, but obviously there's a lot to be done. I misspoke on Muhammad deal war. It's two years 10, not three years 15. I think that's a good bet for the next Alvarado is a no brainer gives him a little dou smick bride insurance. He's an unrestricted free agent after next season. I like all the things the nicks have done. I get the hesitancy with the second apron. It really is restrictive. And the thing with the nicks is if they're in it next year, there's really no sign of them ever getting out of it in the near future with this team is Brunson's deal will, Brunson will sign his new big deal eventually and other guys are essential. It's not like you can just ditch Josh Hart or McHale bridges or something. And then your pick gets moved down and all that. But you know what, it's a special team who knows how much money that it's just made. Mitchell Robinson, you know, in a Wemba Nyama world is that archetype of player is essential. So let's run it back. I say it's not my money though. Okay. Michael Pinar, are you ready? The main characters of the rest of the NBA off season in no particular order. Are you ready to go? Let's do it. One character number one, and I'm accelerating him to the top of the list. Kawaii Leonard. The centerpiece of one of the most audacious, crippling, risky, whatever mega transactions in NBA history that continues to this day to cost the Clippers in the last draft and the aspiration scandal is still ongoing and all that. There is interest and there is interest specifically from the Toronto Raptors. These talks are very real. They are real enough that I would not surprise me at all. If Kawaii Leonard is traded to the Raptors, like shortly after this podcast is released, it also would not surprise me at all if it takes a couple of days or if it never happens. Because my read is the Clippers are asked, there's a gap between what the Clippers want to move on from Kawaii Leonard and sort of honestly begin a rebuild and what the Toronto Raptors are willing to give up. They're not going to give up Scotty Barnes. They're not going to go call them worry boils. They're not going to give up the swing. Who did they just draft? I can't remember. The guy they just drafted in the first round and not giving him up. So it's just like do you want Brandon Ingram plus Grady Dick plus a lightly protected first round pick that conveys now. If so, I think there's a deal. If not, I think there's further negotiations. This is super interesting because I just was never sure the Clippers would reach this point with Kawaii when they would honestly look themselves in the mirror and say it's time. It's time. They've indicated that they've been very honest about their place in the league. They never, I don't think seriously entertain trading the number five pick. They realized what a gift this was to them having given up so much to get Kawaii Leonard. What a rare chance to get a blue chip prospect and they get cute and wogler. But I still, I just assumed they'll ride it out forever with Kawaii and here we are. What do you think of this? And I think this is very real. I don't think the Dallas rumors are real. That could change. But I don't think that's real. I don't know if there's any other team, but Toronto is definitely interested in pairing Scotty Barnes and Kawaii Leonard and really kind of going for it in the East where a lot of teams are kind of going for it. This is an interesting one for a lot of reasons that it took me by surprise. The fact that the Clippers, you know, Shams reported that the Clippers made, quote, no long-term commitment to them this off season. So the extension talks are stalled and that's surprising to me a little bit given everything that they've said and hinted at and signaled for months. The thing about this to me, like, if I was the Clippers, I don't, this package, Ingram dick, a pick, whatever. I'm just making that up. I'm not sure. Maybe you squeeze a second pick, but I don't think like it's going to be, you know, could it be Barrett instead of Ingram? I'm not sure how much that changes your life if you're the Clippers, even if you maybe prefer Barrett. It's not going to be any of the blue chip guys and it's not going to be like four first and three swaps. That's not happening. Right. I think, well, first of all, if something were like that were to happen and he were to just end up on the Raptors, I'll just say that Scotty Barnes, Kawaii Leonard and CMB, like that front court, that's my league pass team. I'm watching every second of the Toronto Raptors next season. But I think like fundamentally for me, if Leonard is truly on the market, the Clippers don't want him. They don't want to extend him. I don't see why another team wouldn't do what Toronto did in 2019 and take a one-year flyer with the caveat here that Leonard doesn't have the same amount of leverage that he once did. You know, like he, in 2019, obviously, that the risk was that he was, everyone knew he was going to go to Los Angeles. Well, that's off the table now. And how many teams would even be willing to give him the extension that he covered? So I think that the market should be a little broader, maybe I'm misreading something here. But I feel like even though he has, I've seen the Raptors, I've seen the Spurs as another team that he would reportedly be interested in signing an extension with. I just think like the market there should be a little wider and more team should be interested in getting Leonard if they want the one-year flyer, and then kind of we'll see what happens. Give me a team. Well, I know we're going to talk about this later, so I don't want to step on it too much, but the Boston Celtics. Your problem for my problem? Yeah. I mean, if the Celtics, I don't, we're going to talk about this a little bit. But if the Celtics are going home about trading Jalen Brown, I would want a player who would make me a better team on paper or a better player than Jalen Brown. I think Kyle Leonard is a better player. I think he would get you closer to a champion. in 2007. So that's interesting to me and then they could also save some money or they could get another player in like I say a Jackson or Chris Dunn maybe. So that's like an interesting one, but I there's just other teams out there like the other teams that we're going to probably be talking about in a few minutes. So that's kind of just what what do you think about that? Just like opening up the the negotiation if you're the clippers and you're seriously not wanting Kawaii Leonard, which is kind of a grounds well throughout the league, I feel like. Well, it's interesting because like obviously the idea that you would extend with Toronto reportedly is giving the Raptors some leverage. Like to your point like Kawaii's 35 and has a fairly long and well documented injury history. I'm not sure I mind depending on the price just getting him and saying we'll figure it out later. The Celtics that was on my list of like so who's going to trade for Jalen Brown who's another main character? I just think I could see the two teams arguing over who and how much should send draft compensation right who should who should compensate the other and how much that one gets a little complicated is age is a little complicated look there's a ticking clock on this thing with Toronto like Toronto is going to move on to other business just like other teams are going to move on like there will be Jalen Brown potential trades that fall apart because teams move on to other business. So you know we'll see I mean the funniest one would be Paul George to the Clippers with one of their first round picks at the Sixer Zone in exchange for Kawaii Leonard. That would be the funniest one and by the way the Clippers don't control their pick for the next three drafts even though the the Oklahoma City nightmare trade is over for them and that factors into it too and I think they still want to be somewhat relevant right they don't want to bottom out even though the relegation zone is not going to affect them since they don't control their picks so that's why I got like Ingram I think that's why Toronto would pitch that idea look Kawaii went healthy last year was one of the eight best players in the NBA at worst probably went healthy like the last 55 games of the season he was that good you put him with Toronto I've already had a couple people from Eastern conference contenders text me like we would really not like that to happen like that team gets a pretty scary pretty fast so yeah I just think it's interesting we'll see what happens I don't really buy the Dallas stuff I don't really buy I don't really buy the San Antonio one either like I don't I don't really know how that's working and what the prices and all that what if Devon Vassel would have to be involved I think or I don't know that's just that's too much I think it ended worse with San Antonio than it did with Toronto by like orders of magnitude between Kawaii and the team and I just feel like you just made the finals like I don't and that just feels like a bridge too far trying to think if it's anything else we need to hit on this nope that's it Kawaii like we'll see I think there's real likes for this thing at Toronto but I agree with you like there are a bunch of teams that could talk themselves into it like you could build Denver deals you can do all sorts of things okay main character number two Jalen Brown we're here with Jalen Brown Bill and I talked about it a lot last night I don't know who the Jalen Brown team is I am beginning to wonder if the Celtics overthought the Yannis thing and just this should have just been like we've gone this far we know that it's going to be hard to put the toothpaste back in the two with Jalen if we keep them we know it's going to be pretty hard to trade them for a return that our fans find palatable maybe Hugo isn't this essential or Shireman or both isn't this essential and we should just go all in and rip the bandaid off and get it over with throw our depth out the window like I'm not sure that's a great answer either but now they're in this situation where I just don't know who the team is that's that's like that they're deep in in the weeds with on any Jalen Brown trade and I sent this with Bill last night I compared it to the Minnesota temporal of trading cat in the sense that I just think given his salary as great as Jalen Brown was last season and has been for his entire career and you will tell you he's one more games in the NBA over the last six amount of years than anyone in the league um I think they are stuck in a place where their choices are right now hold on to Jalen Brown and try to salvage this relationship and figure it out and it may be too far gone I don't know I mean I'm looking at a tweet this morning that I I think everything is fake in AI I think Kendrick Perkins threatened to fight Jalen Brown's dad on Twitter I think that's that's like a place to where are we are right now like that's in the media okay um so reconciliation or take a package that is just not going to excite your fans your talk radio hosts maybe even your owner it might be like a smart package that you could be like okay we reorganize our finances we get a couple young players a couple picks but like the headliner or the present day value is going to make your team materially worse this coming season than having Jalen Brown would be I think that's where they're stuck and I don't really know like what the team even is right now I don't know I don't know where the what who they're at the 20 yard line or 30 yard line with you have any thoughts my thoughts on this are I'm I texted you this last night I'm I'm still surprised that we we got to this point Jalen has three years on his contract super max I just it's interesting to me that a team that wants to win the championship that aspires to win it all like you don't trade a guy who just finished sixth an MVP made was about to make first team all NBA finished with the sixth most votes for first team all NBA was a finals MVP two years ago he's about to turn 30 but still kind of getting better um in a lot of different ways uh you don't do that because his you don't trade him because his feelings are hurt because it was revealed that he was in an offer for yana centente cumpo who's like one of the greatest players in the history of the NBA and if I'm the Celtics like I'm not making a trade unless like I clearly win the trade like I would feel like the Celtics are negotiating from a position of strength uh like that's the kind of the point of selling high like if I if I make no trade if I'm Boston I keep Jalen brown and I come back next season with a roster that won 56 games and had a better offense defense and net rating in the regular season than the nicks and Jason Tatum only played 16 regular season games like I feel like that's a pretty good consolation um we have all this data that Tatum and Brown are fantastic together we have uh all this data I know that the analytics conversation is kind of going way too far in one direction that it's it's like silly um when Jalen Brown is on the court the Celtics are good like every year like whether Tatum is on the court or not they're very good basketball team I have some thoughts on analytics skate can I just share my thoughts on analytics skate please please so this is reminded me of my biggest pet peeve in NBA media for 25 years was when SI when it was a real publication like a actual print publication in a real website used to put out anonymous NBA scouts preview the season and it was just a column of like anonymous NBA scouts and a lot of it would be like really mean pot shots at players like stuff that you would not say if your name were attached to it not like this guy needs to work on his jump shot or whatever like but like this like this guy is just a loser and you'd be like really you're just good and you don't know who the scout is it could be like scout number 12 in the depth chart right and I think like I love Bobby marks he's very close to me like we were a great relationship we're both met fans all of it I just think like just gate keep that one like random analytics guys saying something that you know is objectively crazy is just like you don't have to share that one number two even if he shares it and he did I promise you everyone from Jalen Brown to green runs deep to Joe Celtics fan you don't have to care you don't have to get mad about it it is possible to just dismiss it as the one opinion of a stupid analytic staffer whose name we don't know whose team we don't know whose experience we don't know and just move on with your life you don't need to make it a new cycle for 48 hours you can just go outside ride a bike go to the beach take a swim read a book cook a meal like you don't have to make it a thing and nor do nor does anyone in the media and this is the end of me making it a thing please move on no more talk about it right I agree with everything you just said but again like the the whole the toothpaste back in the tube thing it's like if you didn't want to be in trade rumors then you should have negotiated a no trade in your contract this is kind of like not to be you know Don Draper this is what this is what the money is for the Celtics gave Jalen Brown a super max extension right after they lost to the eight seed Miami Heat and in a game seven where Tatum got hurt and like the first play and then Jalen Brown was proceeded to get outplayed by Caleb Martin so obviously you know this the Celtics have belief in Jalen Brown they have they understand his value they gave him $285 million on that deal they gave him they've given him over four $400 million in his career. So the feeling's hurt thing is just like, I'm not taking a, you know, some of the fake trades that I've seen, I would just not do that if I was Boston. I think they're a significant step back, step backs from championship contention, which is not what you wanna do when you have Jason Tatum. I think that's their only choice. Is a trade that is, even if it can be spun as like, hey, this is a smart trade with these long term assets and this financial flexibility and clearing up the hierarchy, it will be a step back in 26, 27. It may be 27, 28. And that's, you're gonna be your, I don't think there's the barring this fake Kawaii trade that I don't think has any traction. I don't know that there's a trade that's not a step back that exists. - I have a fake one for you. Tell me how realistic you think this is. Sacramento Kings, subonus, de-rozen, who's got a non-guaranteed, 10 million guaranteed. And three firsts for Jalen Brown. - I don't think the Kings are doing that, with that level of draft equity involved. - Subonus is a good name though. For a team that really needs like a proven MBA center, I mean, Nimi Kato is now proven as a regular season starter and then after that, I tell it, I see. That's a good, in fact, the Kings are on my list of just so like, let's just real quickly. Here are teams about whom there's been noise with Jalen Brown or reported connections or fake trade connections that I think are now either out or mostly out. Brooklyn, Detroit, Clippers, Houston, I don't think Houston's ever been in. What are some other names that have been like bandied about that I should hit? 'Cause I'm gonna then go to the teams that make, oh, Portland. - Portland. - Maybe Portland is in, I don't know. I'm not convinced that they're in. They could be in, I'm not crossing that one off. If all those teams are out, then I'm looking for like, well, who's in that would surprise me, right? Do you have a team, you're looking at the teams? Did you say the Pelicans, that's? - Pelicans, I have no clue. No clue, I mean, you could build any number of trades. It could be a Zion trade, a trade trade, a Herb plus trade trade, a Herb plus Zion trade, a No Zion trade, there's like a million possibilities and do not they murder you, they don't really need. So I'll keep them in the in circle. Denver, I think, has to be monitored and we'll get to them in a second as one of the main characters of the offseason. And then I'm like, is there a team that's off my radar that I need to look deeper at? Sacramento was one. Now, I didn't think of subonus. What I thought of was Keegan Murray, DeAndre Hunter and some draft assets that are obviously not A-Cuff, maybe I get Caravan as a win-now player or something like that. - Eh, again, like it's eh. I thought like, do we need to keep an eye on Atlanta again? Who is just sort of like, but I don't know what the money is in that one. Like, does Dyson Daniels plus Kaminga plus some future and what's the blue chip young player? 'Cause obviously it's not gonna be Kingston Fleming. It's like, what's the, is it Dyson Daniels? Is that that exciting to me as the Celtics? Or do I get Nikkei Alexander Walker somehow thrown in there? I just don't see a great deal for either side. Obviously, Jail and it's from Atlanta. I thought about Dallas because they were, they've been rumored everywhere and I'm not sure any of those rumors are true. You just have to pile up a ton of players and again, I don't know who's like PJ Washington plus Nodgy Marshall plus Clay Thompson. Like, that's not, I need something younger and more exciting than that. And by the way, notable report from Christian Clark at the athletic over the weekend, Derek Lively is out of his walking boot but still hasn't progressed to running or jumping as he works his way back from multiple right foot surgeries. Okay. Like, I'm, my ears went up with that in terms of like, I don't know. I mean, Orlando for one of the star players on Orlando, that just feels like a two seismic a change for everybody involved. So I don't really like even know what other teams to really be paying attention to right now. And I think they might be stuck between a rock and a hard place here for a bit. Well, so let me just ask you like, what is wrong with bringing him back? Like I understand the money. I understand like how expensive he is. I know how difficult it is to build around two guys who will earn 70% of your cap for the next three years. Like I totally, I get all that. But the Celtics are like really good. And if you bring, if you, if you, you know, shift things around the margins here and don't have vuches your backup center, I just think like you're still a very good team that can win the Eastern Conference. Like am I crazy? Let's take a quick break and then I will answer that question. I don't think anything is wrong with bringing Jalen Brown back. I think a couple of things though have changed. He seems legitimately mad about the Celtics putting him in trade talks. And like I understand it's too easy for us to say, hey man, it's Janis. Janis is better than you. Janis is a top 25 all-time player on multiple MVP finals MVP just like you. If I'm Jalen Brown, like these are just like, I'm not wired that way. I'm 29, I play every game. I just saved in my mind. This is how I would think if I were Jalen Brown. I just saved our season whenever one thought we were going to suck. And I carried the team and I'm a finals MVP, a East finals MVP. Like I don't want to be in trade talks. How about I'm not in trade talks for anybody? How about that, how about we get to that point? That's just how he would think. And the other thing that's materially changed is he got the taste of running his own team. And I think that, and they won 56 games. And I think that really matters. And Tatum, the Tatum integration went pretty smoothly. I thought for the most part, there were definitely segments, particularly in the playoffs. So it's like, oh, there's a lot of Tatum going out right now and not as much Jalen Brown going on. And like, that's, but that's also okay. There will be segments where there's a lot of Jalen Brown going on and not as much Jason Tatum going on. That's just part of this imperfect yet wildly fruitful partnership. But I do think things have shifted a little bit. And the other thing is, you know, you said the words sell high. I do think there's probably some worry within the Celtics of, yes, there's only three years left on this mega contract. Does his value rise or fall as his contract gets closer to expiration or is he becomes closer to, he's eligible for an extension now that I would be shocked if he got. So I think those are all factors. I don't, I feel like they're going to trade them. I just feel like this has gotten too far and too much has happened and too many teams have been involved in contact and all that. But I don't disagree that if there's no palatable trade, I don't see any problem bringing it back. I think Missoula is really good at mending fences and getting everyone on the same page. But, you know, TBD on that. And do we forget any teams? I don't think so. I think you hit them all. Atlanta was the one that, I mean, Charlotte, but not. No, Charlotte's another one. I'm glad you mentioned. I don't think Charlotte's interested. I mean, every team could be interested, right? Like I don't think anyone ever with a player of this quality just like out, out, out. It just depends what the price is. That's the thing with the rockets and the hornets. I just don't think those teams are really jumped in in a way that would suggest to me that they're actually interested in Gianna Brown. Portland is the wild card for me that I just can't really read their intention. Speaking of the Kings, by the way, you're going to be shocked by this Michael sit down. If you have a seat belt on your desk chair, buckle it. Zach Levine opted in to his $49 million deal for this comic season. I know you expected him to opt out and test on a restricted free agency. He has opted in with the Kings. By the way, a guy I would keep an eye on as the heat go bargain hunting to try to fill out this roster. If Demarder Rosen gets bought out at any point, I would think he could make some sense for the heat along with Buddy Heald and Demarder with Junior and Mike Conley and all these sort of just like grab bag of guys as the heat tried to cobble together a team. Okay, I think I'm out of thoughts on Jalen Brown. I do think I've been, let's move on. Main character number three, the Denver Nuggets, who this morning tendered qualifying offers to Peyton Watson and Spencer Jones. And I just think ended the season with Yokehch playing maybe the worst playoff series of his career against the Timberwolves and Rudy Gobert's defense, ended the season with Aaron Gordon injured yet again. And I think ended the season both their own season and watching the spurs and the thunder and their seasons. Understanding like, ooh, this has gotten pretty dicey for us really fast. Mark Stein and Jake Fisher broke the news over the weekend that Yokehch may delay signing his extension which he delayed last season for reasons that made financial sense and no longer really applied now. I think that story is mostly nothing but not 100% nothing. I don't think he's ever going to leave Denver. I don't think he wants to leave Denver but and I don't think there's going to ever be like you've got to do these five moves or I'm leaving Denver. November, I just think it's like, it's been noted. It's been noted within the nuggets that he's not signed yet. And maybe he signs in two weeks and it's all moot. I think that's all going to be fine. But I think this team has reached across roads where it's like, something about us is growing a little bit still and is not good enough to beat these two teams ahead of us. And we have a guy who has been the best player in the world or maybe number two or number three now for the last seven years, six years, five years. We've got to act. And even if the act is changed for the sake of change, we've got to try something. And that's why when Bill brought up his, I think it was Jalen Brown and Sam Hauser for Jamal Murray. And was it Aaron Gordon? No, it wasn't Aaron Gordon. It was Jamal. Cam. Cam Johnson. That's a really interesting trade. And I do think Denver has kicked the tires on Jalen Brown. What do you think of that trade? And what Denver is already like at the first apron before you even put a dollar in for Watson and Spencer Jones? Like what's realistic here? From Boston's perspective, I think that if you're going to trade Jalen Brown, getting a very, very good all MBA level player, whose where Jamal Murray is would make some sense, I don't know. Well, Jalen Brown's probably a little bit better, but I love Jamal Murray. And obviously Cam Johnson, great three point shooter, had a up and down season, but very good player. I feel like it's a watch there with Hauser. If I'm the Denver Nuggets, I just, I have obviously in recognizing and acknowledging how they went out last year was really tough. I have a hard time conceiving the Denver Nuggets without the Yogic Murray tandem, which I just think is still very special in a lot of ways. And when those two shared the floor last year, their offensive rating was 130, which was led the NBA among all two men, tandems that played at least 1,000 minutes. They're still exceptional together. And I just think that Jalen Brown is a totally different type of player, and I'm not saying it can't work on the court. And obviously he adds athleticism and power and force and defense, for sure, on-ball defense. I don't know if that makes you that much better if you're the Denver Nuggets. And so that's kind of a tricky one. And I just, real quick, touching on the extension news with Yogic's kind of delaying it. I agree with you that it's probably nothing, but it is also like a smidge of him putting his finger on the scale, I feel like. If you wanted to sign the extension, you could just sign it. I mean, you can do it any day between now and I think next June. So that's fine, but the fact that he hasn't already is just it's interesting. And I want to see, you know, they traded their first round pick, obviously in a cost-cutting move, which was tough to see. But more shoes are left to drop here with regards to Peyton Watson and how much they're willing to spend and are they going to be in the second apron and this and that. So it's going to be really interesting to see what happens. But that trade is, it also feels like a your problem, my problem, type of trade that I don't think that Denver gets necessarily closer to winning a title with it. I think that's a, it's an interesting concept to me because it fits my, we just need a different look and part of what we need is more size and the words you use athleticism, power. I wrote, like they're just with Aaron Gordon increasingly just like I just have to plan my team around the idea that he's just not going to be able to stay healthy for the whole playoffs. And without him, they just don't have enough power and size and oomph and physicality. It's why to me Peyton Watson is a must. I have to bring Peyton Watson back if I'm Denver. What he showed when Yokech and half the team was injured, he's not going to be able to play like that for Denver. You're not getting 25 pick and rolls of game and all of this. But just in terms of power, he's better defending guards and he is defending fours and big guys. But he's very versatile defensively. And just the athleticism and speed and size. I think he's an absolute must. He's going to have shooters in Chicago, Los Angeles, the Lakers maybe might show some interest in him. I think you've got to bring him back if you're the nuggets. But that's why that trade of like, all right, we're just not going to have any guards on the team. But we're going to have all like super powerful wings and then we'll figure out the guards later is conceptually interesting to me. But to me, like, I've got to bring Peyton Watson back if I'm the nuggets almost no matter what I do. And then I've got to make some choices of like, I'm either going over the second apron or I'm salary dumping somebody somewhere and I'm like, do I have enough to pay for the salary dumping of someone somewhere? I don't know. By the way, another just aside that I forgot that I should have mentioned about Dallas and Jalen Brown and Gauai and all that, like, Dallas is out a lot of picks like going forward. They don't have a ton of picks to trade. They have the Lakers pick one year courtesy of some trade. I can't remember how they got a Lakers pick. Boggles might, I don't remember it. But that's nearly here and over there. So I'm just fascinated by Denver, 'cause they feel like a team that should be ready to take a stylistic gamble. And I don't know what that is, but I'm very interested to see what that is. And that Boston deal is just fascinating too. By the way, Bill's just making that up. I don't think that's been discussed. That's just a Picasso of the Trade Machine deal. But I think it's very interesting. And now, timely, main character number four. Michael Peena, unless you have any other Denver thought you want to get off the chest. No, we're good. We're good. We can move on. Main character number four is LeBron James, who is an unrestricted free agent who doesn't appear as of right now to have been tender to real offer by the Lakers for his services. The Lakers are staring at a scenario where they could have, like, $45-ish million of Caproom to use, but they'd have to renounce all their outgoing free agents, including LeBron and Rui Hachamara. Rui Hachamara, I would bet on not being a Laker next year, but I wouldn't bet heavily on it. That's just my educated intel. Or they could stay over the Cap and basically bring back most of the same gang. In related news, Shams Tronair reports that Dreymon Green has declined his $27 million player option for next season. This move, according to Shams, gives the Warriors flexibility to pursue LeBron James and Free Agency and Anthony Davis via trade to form a big four. Now, I'm assuming the big four in that scenario are Steph Dreymon to LeBron and Anthony Davis and that Jimmy Butler, who's recovered from a touring ACL, is moved in a theoretical Anthony Davis trade. I was told last week that if Dreymon indeed opted out of $27 million, it would not be to leave the Warriors, or not likely be to leave the Warriors. It would likely be to sign a longer deal at lesser money, particularly in this year, to give them the flexibility to upgrade the roster. I'm not, this is the expendables fantasy scenario that Bill is like three months in the outlining and patenting. And I keep seeing people steal the expendables from him. No, that's his thing. I don't know that that big four is good enough to beat the Thunder or the Spurs in a playoff series. It's very old and injury prone, and those are bad things to be when you're facing young, deep, rising teams. But it would sure be a hell of a lot of fun. It would make the Warriors must watch. The Steph LeBron thing is a proven thing like they go beautifully together. And Anthony Davis, I mean, I have no earthly clue what the Wizards actually want to do with Anthony Davis. Long time wizard, Anthony Davis. He makes $58 million this year, he's extension eligible. I know that I would stay as far away from an Anthony Davis contract extension as I possibly could no matter what team I was. And then he has a $63 million player option for next year. He's still a very good player. He just doesn't play basketball very much. And he's old, like he's older. Unlike, unlike like Lamello Ball, who at least has age on his side. Anthony Davis has the injury plus age nexus is now kind of working against him. Hell, I'm looking up right now, was he 31-32? He is 33, actually. So I mean, A.D. would be, he still has a lot of good basketball in him. And he obviously, like, gives the Warriors a defensive backline presence, like they have not had in a long, long time and a lot of threat and all of that stuff. It would just be interesting to watch him and dream on, how does that all fit together? But those are luxury problems for the Warriors who have a lot of draft picks to trade. As for the Wizards, I have just no earthly clue what they want to do with Longtime Wizard, Anthony Davis. There was tons of buzz over the weekend that they were going to be open to moving him. And then I heard the exact opposite when I started checking around, like, no, that's all inaccurate. They want Anthony Davis on the team. I would assume if the Warriors made a palatable offer, why wouldn't the Wizards at least entertain it? I think the Trey Young extension, which was bizarrely expensive and already talked about it. to me indicates that Anthony Davis is not long for Washington either way. I just don't see any universe in which three years from now, two years from now, the wizards are paying those guys $110 million, combined or whatever it would be. So I would assume, if I had to cut through the noise the best I could, I would assume warriors offer something realistic. They could probably get in the conversation. And as for LeBron, look, I have no, no one has any idea. I have no idea. The best I can do is like cross teams off. I, I kind of crossed the clippers off already last week when I said like, yeah, they can open cap space. I've just been told over and over again that he doesn't want to play for the clippers. Maybe that changes if the clippers change their roster on. I don't know. It seems like this warriors thing has more momentum than the calves thing and maybe even than the Lakers thing. The Lakers return, although I thought he, he clearly settled into like a winning third banana roll before everybody else got hurt, reads and look around him. I find this fascinating. I mean, I just don't know what it really amounts to in terms of chasing an NBA championship. But I know that step plus LeBron plus AD plus Dremond is absolute must-watch television. And at the very least, like, the interesting, I, I, my, I can't wrap my brain around what, like, what's the over under on that team? I have absolutely no idea. They're ancient and injury prone in AD's case. But it's clearly better than what the warriors are now. It's, it's interesting. It's entertaining. I think depths could obviously be an issue. Health would be an issue. Athleticism, you know, they brought back Al Hoerford on a deal. I don't know what Moses Moody's status is. But I can be out for a while. I can be out if not for a while. I I don't know. I mean, I'm just penciling in, like, out for the season, but we'll see. Right. So, I mean, it's, it's, it's top heavy, for sure. All of the players that we're talking about are in some kind of decline. They're also super special. And when healthy play at a pretty, pretty high level, so can they beat the spurs? Can they beat the thunder? Can they beat the healthy nuggets? I don't know. It's an interesting one. I would, I would want to see it for sure. And I think that it's just a lot to think about with regard. I mean, we've seen LeBron and Steph on Team USA. I thought that that was like really symbiotic in a lot of ways. And there's some, you know, versatile things that you can do offensively with all that intelligence. But yeah, it's, it's an interesting one. I don't know. I don't know if they come in the title though. I just, I can't conceptualize the team. Like, the Steph LeBron two-man game is obviously like that's a dream come true for everybody to get to see that on the biggest stage. We saw it in the Olympics. Where's Anthony Davis going on? Where's Dremont? Greenwood? That's going on. Does this team have depth? Does it have defense? Where's our whorford? I have no clue. Like, Dan T. Melton has a player option. Is he coming back? Is he not coming back? Pajewanski is still around. Like, it's a good team to fun team. If they're down to one in the second round to San Antonio, it's going to be unbelievable wherever the game is, if it's in Golden State. And it's just, it would be fun theater. And I talked about this with Bill who pitched the spurs as a LeBron destination. And he asked me, would, would you consider him a ring chaser? Would people consider him a quote ring chaser in that scenario going, glomming on to a team like the spurs who just made the finals? And I said two things. Number one, I think the spurs is a good franchise to pick out because I don't, and this goes back to the Clippers with apologies to the Clippers and their fans. I don't think he's going to a franchise that doesn't have some level of gravitas to it. And the spurs have gravitas. I also said, the dude is 41 years old. It's a miracle that he's still in the NBA. It's a triple miracle that he's still one of the 25 best players in the NBA. Do whatever the hell you want at that point. No one is being like, oh, LeBron chasing rings at age 42. No, it's going to be like LeBron's having fun at age 42. And all these guys coming together would be fun. And this would not, I mean, I don't, I think this is not even a ring chase. I mean, they can talk themselves into it. I can't see four playoff series wins out of a team that's old. But it's definitely a basketball near Vana chase. It's like, I want to end my career playing with a bunch of other basketball geniuses and a teammate that I've had in Anthony Davis before and I like and I'm fond of. Let's have some fucking fun and see how this works. I don't think that anything LeBron does should be considered a ring chase at this point. And I frankly would love for him to be in a situation where he can win another ring. I mean, that way, I think that one of the cool things about how last season ended with the Los Angeles Lakers and him finding this, this, this role that was very new to him. But best for the team was that they were a team that was able to maximize all the parts with him not, you know, having the highest usage or being the first scoring option or whatever. And winning. They were winning down the stretch and they were very good until Luca got hurt against the Oklahoma City Thunder. So it's fun when LeBron is in the hunt. And I would love for it to see him go to any situation where that were the case. And he was still functioning in a large meaningful role as he was last year with the Lakers. Buck a lot, baby. The warriors are doing warriors things and just nothing is more warriors than chasing like this kind of thing, which is super fun. Let's wrap up real quickly because I want to get this up as soon as possible as things are happening. Other quick thoughts. Another main character I think is going to be the Pistons who opened up some space by dumping Isaiah Stewart and then used some of it on a great acquisition of Isaiah Joe that immediately made me think, huh, Duncan Robertson's contract is like very little guaranteed for next season. They could open up even more space again by doing something with him. And then if they do that, whereas Duncan Robertson go, I need to choice up to something. I don't know what it is. Any quick thoughts on that? This is the trademark for me still. This is the Ron Holland, Keras Lever and four picks for Tray Merphy or picks. Let him be. Let him be the Desmond Bane of your team. Let him be the Mikael Bridges. I feel like if you're the Detroit Pistons, this is our team. You know, it's going to get very expensive, but Cade, Sar Thompson, Jalen Duren, whenever he resides, Tray Murphy, Isaiah Joe, all the other pieces on the like it's just, we were in, we were the best team in the Eastern Conference last year. We're clearly understanding things about ourselves and we made an identity shift in a lot of ways by trading essentially trading Isaiah Stewart for Isaiah Joe. Double Isaiah. Yeah. I just realized it was coming out of my mouth, but yeah, that can win the title. So what do we, like that's, and it's not just like a one-year thing, Tray Murphy is not 30 years old. He makes sense with Cade and he makes sense with that young core. So yeah, I would do whatever it takes, honestly, to get Tray Murphy. I think he's a perfect fit for what they do, how they play, fits on both sides of the ball, and why not? Do it. I think four picks we get it done immediately. Just a couple other quick thoughts before we go here. Hornets, two big trades, obviously, Lamello, and then Miles Bridges, and they got Royce O'Neill and Grayson Allen and a 2033 on protect to pick with the 29 pick going to Phoenix. I covered that with Bill yesterday. The only thing I will say, I loved that trade for Charlotte. I did not like it for Phoenix. It raises some interesting roster questions for Phoenix. I like everything else Phoenix has done so far this summer. I think Jalen Green now becomes one of the biggest wild cards in the league over the next 18 months with his player option for 36 million for the 27-28 season. We'll see if he's part of their long-term plans, particularly if they extend Dylan Brooks that almost feels like either or financially for them. The only thing I'll say about Charlotte that I haven't said is I think I wonder if the new lottery rules emboldened them even more to get off of Lamello because I think they're willing to take a small step back next season. I think the lottery rules just make a lot of teams in Charlotte's tradition rethink like, hey, feel good season, 44 wins, played at like a 55 win pace in the last half plus of the season. We could go all in or semi-all in or half of another foot in for next season and chase every win. If we don't do that, the other option might be taking a small step back. In the east, actually, missing the playoffs, if things go wrong, if you have an injury or whatever, if the Lamello void is worse than you think. I think they looked at that and we're like, what's the worst thing that happens? We missed the playoffs. We have a bunch of draft assets. If our own pick is in the lottery and Dallas's pick is in the lottery, we just, you know, the new lottery helps us. It's not bad to be 13 in the lottery anymore. So I thought that was an interesting smart little thought by them. And then the Bulls had a great draft. Everybody loves the Bulls draft. It does have to be frustrating for Bulls fans to watch these teams clamor, to pay pretty fair contracts, to Iodisoon new and Colby White when you just gave them away for nothing and that's all I really want to say because we got a big week coming up and it's already starting. I'm glad all this stuff happened while we were on this podcast. The Warriors, man, I just Steve Kerr is coming back and it's like, let's have a party. Let's go. And maybe they'll make it happen. And I wonder, honestly, if like, I wonder if the Lakers would almost be relieved to like, not that they want to not have LeBron on their team, but just the clarity of, okay, now we can operate as a cap space team. Now we can really start turning over the team to make it look like Luca, how Luca wants it to look. By the way, they have a lot of work to do to get it to look like they do lots of to look with him on the clock. But that's it for this morning, Michael Pina, what do we got coming up from you? You wrote, what did you, you wrote something? You wrote about something over the weekend. I can't remember what it was so much has been happening. Janus, you wrote about Janus, I think, right? No, I wrote about Janus when the trade happened. I did a little, uh, uh, offseason preview, I had a bunch of questions. Oh, that's, yeah, Jaylen and, uh, I think I proposed that trade Murphy, million picks for trade Murphy thing that the Detroit piston should do. Hopefully that happens, um, yeah, just going to be covering, covering the summer, covering the offseason. It's going to be very busy for agency starting tomorrow. So can't wait. I got a time to swim meet tomorrow and I'm going to be timing and have my phone and one and I'm going to be like Joe Doomars, except with a stopwatch on a phone. Can't, I might accidentally answer a call with the stopwatch tomorrow and mess up with my timing. Michael Pina, you're the best. Thank you, sir. Thank you, Zach. All right, that's it for today's edition of the Zach Lowe show Buckle Up transactions are coming. It's that time of year. Summer League is right around the corner. I'll be in Vegas in a little over a week. I can't believe we're already there. Thank you to Michael Pina for his time and expertise. Thanks as always to Mike Jonathan and Billy on production. Thanks to you all for listening to and or watching the Zach Lowe show. We'll be back later this week, either Wednesday or Thursday as news trickles in ahead of your holiday weekend. Either Maher Vatska and we will be back soon. Thanks, everybody. 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