Navy SEAL who K*lled Bin Laden Comes Clean… | Robert O’Neill

(upbeat music) - I was looking in the ring camera when you got here and you were like kind of intense just staring 'cause no one knows where to look. I was like, "Damn, that might be the last thing "of some of the big line I've ever saw." - You gotta keep that. - Kinda crazy. - You gotta keep that. - Yeah, that's a good one. You were like, "Oh, post that shit. "You gotta say you got exclusive "of a big long ring camera." - I, you know what, that's good. - Do that, do that. - So he was wearing a body cam at the time? - No, no one did. No one had anything. - Ben Laden wasn't wearing one now. - He wouldn't wear the vest. I thought he was. I was gonna kill him anyway. - I know you were. - Yeah. - Well, we have, if you said seal team six, we're fucking killing people. - That's pretty much it. - The capture is not, not happening. - So that was just more for like diplomatic cover. - Yeah, I mean, well, when we had, and we should talk about this, or unless we're recording now. - Yeah, we're on. - Okay. - Yeah. - Oh good. - Yeah, we're rolling. - We talked to, I was saving good shit, not like, now I can start telling the truth. No, when we were going after Ben Laden, I was actually with Chiefs. Well, Chesney, he had Cairo the dog. The book's called "No Ordinary Dog." And he was, anyway, he was there, and we had just finished out in Nevada. We were talking to Admiral Mike Moll was there. He was chairman of the joint chiefs. And Chiefs, actually, oh, we were right there. And we both kind of said, "Hey, what are the ROE's, man? What are our rules of engagement on this shit?" And he was, for Ben Laden. Like, what do you, what do you want? And he goes, "Okay, Osambin Laden is a threat to the United States of America." So, as an American, he's a threat to you and what happened on 9/11. Osambin Laden is a physical threat to you. So, when you see him, like Roger that, sir, got it. - Gotcha. - You don't need to incriminate yourself anymore. He was going to die anyway. - Right, I mean, look, if you went in there and you're like, "Hey, get these zip ties on, Ben Laden." - I don't think that carries zip ties. - Yeah, I feel like that won't turn out. - Yeah, it's a waste of ounces equal pounds. - I'm not, I'm not getting a second Pakistan because they carry too many zips on you. - But I got to tell you, man, it's crazy to meet you because I remember that night so vividly when they announced it. - What are you doing? - Yeah, so you, you guys were obviously like six hours out of mission at that point when it went public to us. - Yeah, that's why it's May 1st, May 2nd. It was May 1st here, May 2nd there. - What do you mean, May 2nd there? - It was time zones. - Oh, right, right. - So that's when it was announced here, I think Sunday, May 1st. - Right, right, right. I missed the mail and that's all right. You know, I remember I'm watching the Phillies met Sunday night baseball game and they're like, we want to step in and it seems like we killed Ben Lanhouse like, what? And then there was, I don't know if you guys ever got to see this, but there was a guy in Pakistan who had like one of those like dad selfie pictures on Twitter and he was like tweeting the whole thing. - He was outside. I was going to, I could have killed him by. - With that same guy? - He was right outside. And I thought about him, I've talked about him. He was there and if Twitter was Twitter, if Twitter was on X's, we would have been compromised. But he's outside of the phone in his face. And I remember thinking, if I'm in Iraq right now, I'm blasting this dude because we just hit that target, he's going to blow up a bomb. But I'm looking at him like, they have no fucking idea. And I mean, and again, that's that's something about a CEO team six operator. A lot of guys are like, I can get a free kill pal. It's like, I'm not going to shoot this dude, but I could be an international answer. I've had a couple of those, my first silver star bomb pack is down for four hours, three and a half. - Wait, what happened there? - Yeah, attention. - Okay. So back up. I have a theory now. The further I got, especially at the CEO team six level, the more I realized you need to simplify shit. Don't talk yourself into an ass weapon. Make it easy. By the time we got to the bin Laden house, it was, how'd you clear it? Well, the guy in front of me and left, I went right and we just did that over and over. But back in about '08, so a couple years before, one year before Captain Phillips, we're still, you know, bin Laden's a ghost, we're not, we're getting action, but nothing huge. So I'm looking for it. And I was running an outstation in a sort of bad Pakistan, it was like north of J-Bad, it's a lot of bad on the Konar River and you get up into the Pesh River Valley and you got Kornagall Valley in the Sherriak, where Marcus the trail was rescued, we were up there for that one too, a little survivor. But there were safe houses in Pakistan, like a click across, thousand meters across and two thousand meters across, there's two safe houses in Pakistan because believe it or not, I'll call it a lives of Pakistan, not in Afghanistan. Hey, guys, if you're not following me on Spotify, please hit that follow button and leave a five-star review. They're both a huge, huge help. Thank you. There was one guy left. I'll believe it or something. We did roll him up, too. The last guy in Afghanistan, that's another funny story. But the house, I was like, I want to hit these houses. I'm running this outstation because we're running sources in and out trying to get intel. The lead to bin Laden was out here, something like that. And I was like, wait, if we get on the, the border and have them see us, them being the Taliban or the Pakistanis or the Frontier Corps, which are people we just arm. We give them weapons. The Federal Administrative Tribal area, the Fata is no man's land. And naturally, we being the smartest government, the history of governments, we arm them because they're definitely going to fight for Jeffersonian democracy. That's right. In that fucking shithole. Or they don't know what time it is. Like these people, they know the names of their five brothers, but they don't know what the number five means. That's right. So, building schools. They can learn. If they hit us, we can pursue. And the ROEs at the time were, if you are troops in contact and you have positive visual identification, you can pursue up to 10 clicks inside of Pakistan. So I was like, we'll just go up with a small group of Americans and a small group of Pakistan. He's a little wear desert tiger stripe because it's cool. And we're going to take photos because eventually they'll be an Instagram. But no, we didn't want to recognize us. So if they shoot at us and don't think we're Americans, they're going to try to overrun us then we can pursue with them. They won't know there's bombers. So we get a long story short, long, short, less long. We get to the top. We have some, like I think there's a Vietnam vet that flew us in and we're working with the CIA. So the dude running the chief of base was, he had fought on each side of this war since the Mujahideen. We're funding the Mujahideen to fight the Russians in the same spot. So he's all about it. So I had us. Yeah. So we'll get his birds. No, what does it matter? We got a couple birds. Vietnam guy flew us up there. We insert. We get on top of this mountain. We've been there a while, a number of hours overnight for sure because I remember waking up and I was on top of a, right on the border of Pakistan and I woke up on this nest of pit vipers. Another of my thing. I actually laughing with the two or three Americans are like, oh, look, pit vipers. Thank God this will be the last thing that happened. The worst thing that happens all day. So we fucked them off. And then we see these aff, or these dudes. So they're in in brown pajamas. So they could be Pakistani military. They could be Frontier Corps. They could be straight up, moves you to Dean Taliban, whatever. So we send the Afghans, our guys down there and we said, go talk to them. Don't tell them you're with Americans. So there's a handful of us. They go down there, they come back and what's, what gives, they said, oh, they invited us for tea and we can come down like, that's, okay, they're not going to shoot us, but then these trucks are showing up. So they obviously got on the radio. These trucks are showing up and they got dudes in the back and they're armed. We're like, all right. We have a little bit of high ground. We're on the border of Pakistan. And then another truck shows up and it's noon. So it's like, okay, I got, I'm the ground force commander as like an E6. How many guys you have there? I think three, I have two Navy SEOs who had never been in a gun fight. So they weren't SEO team six guys, so they're SEO team two guys. They're trained up, but they've never been to war. And then I got a few Afghan. I have two other SF guys, Army Special Forces. Not a big group though. We're small, but we want, we think we have the bombs because we have a brand new radio guy who's never called in close air support. Yeah. That's promising. And so now I'm like, as the guy in charge, I'm like, okay, I think we're just going to leave if we can get dead space and get down there because they sort of see us. We can call for extractor just something. So we make that call and I'm with these Afghan and we're spread out because, you know, if you get hit, you want to have some maneuverability, don't be in a group. And I got this, I have my backpack with me and I got the radio guys far away from me and I went Afghan with me and he's never spoken a word of English to me, but he points up the mountain and screams bad guys in English. And so I look up and then he's brown pajamas and they're like, it's scary to watch dudes how fast they are in flip flops and brown pajamas and they're trying to get, they know we're down in this bowl. They're trying to get three sides on us. So I need to run to Tony. He's a seal team two guy and he's carrying the radio because he has never called it support. I'm going to probably either do, he's going to do what I'm going to be there. We were where our gear in lines, first line, second line, third line. And I had heard your first line gears are most important stuff, closest to your body. So it's on your belt, it's your knife, it's your dip, whatever. Your second line gears are second most important stuff. So it's on like eight gear. So your magazines want a little bit of water, grenade, third line gears and backpack, least important shit, ground pencil, even bag, extra socks, foot powder, stuff like that. The reason you do it that way, the Vietnam guys told us, because I'd never heard of anyone else doing it, is if you got to run for your life, you can shit can it in order. Third line being your least important, drop the gear and I'm, so my backpack's here. I'm running 100 to 200 meters to Tony and we're under fire in the daytime. So we need air support because there's a couple of us. So I run over to him and I'm like, here's the deal, we're getting shot out. I think by those first assholes, we're going to call that a checkpoint. Whatever you got, bomb them first and that, they'll, because they don't know there's Americans because we look like this. And he said, well, we don't have any air support. There's nothing up. There's nothing. Like, okay, this is pretty shitty. Try to work on that. So we see them run and they're hitting us with air bursts from their RPGs that they're bursting above us, like, and, and when you're, there's no worries feeling them having someone shoot effective fire at you and you know your bullets aren't going to reach them because now they're at the high ground and all you can kind of do is get as low as you can. So you're looking for rocks as big as a cup, anything to get low. And chips is blowing up and you know, they're, like, they're maneuvering fire and maneuvering. We can tell they're trained and this one dude, this went on for an hour. He can't get any air support. We can't move an hour. An hour. An hour. We're getting shot at and a long gun fight. A long gun fight is two minutes. That's a long fight. does it do the starting to concern me because he shootin' a bell for me? that machine gun, he's maneuvering with his buddy, but he looks like me. So he's got red hair, red beard, he's white dude, and he's yelling a la hawak bar, which is God is greater than your God in Arabic. So my thought is, okay, that's a fucking Chechen. - Yeah, Chechen. - And so this, guess what? This day gets to end one in two ways. We're gonna win or we're gonna fucking die. And this is a safe one for yourself moments. I'm not surrendering to him. - Yeah. - So, and then I'm thinking, and even these weird thoughts of, 'cause there's explosions, shit, and there was a dude that we're with, one of our Afghans who got on a little bit of high ground, and I'm looking at, same dude that didn't speak English, and he gets drilled with an RPG, and he falls, like he falls, and I remember his hat flew off. Now it's very serious. We just lost our first guy. The weirdest things happen in combat. This dude sits up and he is unhurt. - Wait, the guy who looks at his hat? - His hat flew off, and he unhurt, and he looks at me. And we lock eyes, and he said his second phrase ever in English. He went, "Okay, USA!" (laughing) And so, like the crazy shit in combat. And I'm sort of excited. I'm a little, yeah, and then these two tracers zip in between my hands. So the tracers or bullets are on fire. There's five real bullets in between. And it's more serious, and now I'm back in mortality. Like, do you feel it? What's gonna, and then Tony, I got it. I got, I got bombs. We got something, so sweet. Hit that checkpoint, and he said, "I can't, the batteries are dead." Oh my god. - Now, here's a lesson in leadership. I'm a big believer that a micro-management doesn't help. It waste time. But I decided under fire, it's time to micro-manage. I said, "Change the fuck battery, Tony." And he said, "I can't, I'm not carrying the spares. You are in the backpack." - Oh, that you don't have? - Yeah, I dropped that fucker, 'cause I wanted to be a cool guy, 'cause I can't carry a backpack 100 years ago. - Yeah, so now I gotta go get him. So I said, "We're gonna go get the pack in the middle of the field." - Yeah, we need this shit. So, we're all trying to feel healthy, right? Drinking more water, getting steps in, taking vitamins, you name it. But here's what most people ignore, your liver health. It affects literally everything. Your energy, digestion, how your skin looks, even your metabolism. 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And enter the promo code Julian to get 35% off your first subscription. Your body does so much for you. Let's do something for it. That's d-o-s-e-d-a-i-l-y.co/julian for 35% off your first month subscription. - And I said somebody don't tell mom I did this or something. And like one of the other seals, he ran off to do some shit. And I'm like watching Silverstar shit happen with easier. But now I gotta do mine. So I gotta run over to the thing. He's like, I'm running under fire. Sun's up here. He's like, God is great. I'm like a fucking get it. And I agree. God is great dude. And there's holes in the backpack. They're in plastic at the bottom 'cause how fast you need batteries. No one's gonna change his under fire, right? So I'm running back. I throw him to him and I roll over. I pull the dip out of my pocket. He's like, you're fucking changed. Am I doing that? I put a dip in and then the army guy behind me is like, did you just put it in a fresh dip? I go, no homie, I just fresh it up the old one. So he's doing this whatever and we had a conversation something about just talk to me like I'm a man. Is what the pilot said. Because he knew he knew like you're under pressure. Just fucking talk to me like I'm a man. And I think I said I see why women find you attractive. (laughing) But he got it and it snapped us out. And then he ended up bombing. It was, we had two birds. The first one of bomb was a B1. 'Cause he said bombs away and he said two minutes out. And I said two minutes. So the fucking space shuttle and Tony's like, no, it's bones, two, two. That's a fucking B1. He dropped it like 60,000 feet. Like they're coming. And then we're looking and we're kind of looking back and what are they gonna sound like? What, this is danger close and Tony's something like, plug your ears, man or something. And you just, they're close. God is great. That sounds like bacon. Sizzling, bacon sizzling. There's B1 dropped three 2,000 pound J-dams, right on top of that mountain and then they air burst in a triangle, woof. And so the Aloha Walkbar guy, he realizes, "Shit, he's armed." Or 'cause he looks back and so I blast him after yelling something about God and at him. And then, so they're backpack, I'm much a guy's on fire. Like I saw dudes, like combat is not like the movies all the time, it is fast and loud and permanent and just over. And I saw guys vanish. Like everything that ever mattered to them in life at 23 years old, gone, gone. So they're running back and we ended up hitting them. We got another one, dude one two showed up. He's an F-16, dude is F-15. Three and a half hours, we bomb Pakistan. There's footage of this on YouTube. Can we leave them? Yeah, the rename, this is '08, you said? '08 border bombing Pakistan. I'll tell you if it's what. Three and a half hours ago. Yeah, well we had to get, birds are coming to get us. So they flume some black hocks up and we get everyone, I'm the last guy on -2. And again side and we're taking, I'm on the starboard side, the right hand side and we're taking, and I've been sucking mud for the past four hours. But now we're taking off and I'm like, I can see the, I think I might be right there. No, no, 2008, but I can see the. Yeah, the second one, deep, who's. Scorched earth as we're taking off. And I'm like, first I'm happy, well I'm really happy. I was gonna die. But now I'm gonna live and I'm like, oh my God, we just bought a Pakistan. And then it's like, that's an international visit. And then it hits me, fuck, I'm in charge. I'm probably gonna hear about this one. And you said you were reporting the CIA on this one? Well, we were working at the base. So I'm still reporting for Jayside. Joint Special Operations Command working. One of those shady relationships like the guys we trained are probably working for the economies right now. Like they were really, yeah. But I was right 'cause I landed and there was a general there. And he said, well, 'cause we're in two different states of mind. He's thinking, we bought packs and I'm thinking, fuck, I get to see my kids. And he says, O'Neal, you realize we're not at war with Pakistan, right? And I said, yeah, I meant, we fucking were today. And you should've seen it. And I'm like, yeah. And he said, yeah, there's gonna be an investigation. You're either gonna go to Levinworth for rest of your life or maybe get a silver star. - Oh, we hit you with the Levinworth. - Yeah, so waiting an hour for a bomb is a long time. Waiting three weeks to find out if you're gonna spend your life in Levinworth is a nine. And we're at a point two now. That's oh, wait, we're putting people in fucking prison for murder. - Yeah, now what was that? So that three-week investigation? - We had, we had drone footage, I didn't know. There was an unarmed drone above us filming it. So they actually did a good job with this. They let him, the Pakistanis talk their way 'cause we killed 11 Pakistanis soldiers. Like we killed Pakistan army, might, I did. So they're investigating, oh, unprovoked attack. The Americans are on the border illegally and by and they entered and they killed these things. We don't know what, and we let them go with it. - I did, and I'm back there fucking barely jerking off. I'm so nervous at the side of it. And that's all you have to do. - The bomb Pakistan or fucking see if you porn works. - That's right. - And it doesn't. Next screenshot, man, all the like the ancestors did on the Mayflower. Yeah, anyway, but they said, yeah, we have footage. So they showed it to them and Pakistan's like, oh, our bet. - So Pakistan took the blame for that? - No, they did after we showed them the footage. They were trying to put us all in prison and they were playing the, playing the packy card. - Because there's such a, obviously like this is a relationship where we are allied with Pakistan, but it's a constant. - You've got to consider every country has their best interests in mind. So, and Pakistan over there, that white thing they're involved in negotiations with Iran, because they're the center of the universe over there. They really are, and that part, not the air stays, not the oil giants, but Pakistan kind of runs that area. And so they're going to be involved. And so they just, they get away with everything. I mean, we've been armoring them. They were stealing all our money. We're trying to fight the Russians under there. They're double-diffing everywhere. They go, the Karachi, everything through the Torkam Gate, everything is taxed. I mean, you're dealing with them at the Torkam Gate private Taliban just to get shit up the bogger. - And they're nuclear power, too. - Yeah, not great. - Yeah. - Not ideal. - Well, again, too, that's why you got to figure they have their best interests in mind. They don't need bin Laden's crew rolling up, then getting new. So they're going to try to defend that as best they can. It's like everyone else is like in life. People have their best interests in mind. And that's what Pakistan does. - It's interesting, though, 'cause I was completely unbeknownst to you a very foreboding moment for the fact that the most important moment in your career would happen where you're going into Pakistan again, where it's like-- - Both my silver stars are Pakistan. They told me we're not at war with Pakistan. It's bullshit. I was at war with Pakistan. It seems like, doesn't it? And for the record, I don't have a problem with them either. - To this day, you don't have a problem. - No, I'm cool with Pakistan. - They just happen to be harboring. - I mean, not cool as far, I mean, I'm not going to look for it as all. Now, if Pakistanis come over here and start misbehaving, like they have been to have a problem with them. But I mean, Pakistan holding onto them, I mean, they probably helped us find them. They probably helped him hide, and then they helped us find them. Like they're playing both sides of the fence. Everyone is. - Yeah, I mean, there's obviously people in their government that were like sympathetic to him, and then there's people that are more sympathetic to like Western interests. - But then their own interests. They don't need, if one person launches a nuke, it's over for everyone. - Right. - Nuclear winner for everyone gets to enjoy that. And Pakistan is smart enough to know that, even with a lot of the-- Now, yeah. - You've got to, you get some of those Iranian dudes and they're looking for the nuclear winner. That's the, the moddy shows up for them. You get this heaven stuff involved with too many crazy people that know they're right. It's way worse than Thanksgiving dinner with, with your aunt. - Why do you think it's never happened in the 80 years that the world has had the bomb? - It's hard to say. Oh, I mean, there's, well, we can go down a rabbit hole. - Let's do it. - And they don't have nuclear weapons. They're splitting atoms. That's God's stuff, right? I mean, if it's that, no, this is a rabbit hole. I'm not saying this, I'm just, you know, we all get in rabbit holes. - So it's all just a Mexican standoff without any bullets? - Well, the fire bombing footage looks a lot like the nuclear weapon footage and there's building standing here. If you're hitting them with that many majigatons or whatever they call them, everything goes down. I said, well, that one didn't, we'll look at Dresden. Same shit. I mean, are they getting rid of something? I don't know. Or are we working, I mean, it could be as far as wise Eisenhower saying that be where the military industrial complex. Maybe let's get a really shit ton of bombs. My buddy, his company can make a shit ton of bombs for Dresden. There's a big contract, who knows. Yeah, but I'd be splitting atoms. And again, we're way out of my pay grade. But if you want to. - That's all right. It's just a podcast, we're having fun. - Right, but if you want to, I mean, that's maybe, maybe not, we dropped it twice on. - But you were bombing, that bombing was three and a half hours they're dropping J-dams on them? - Yeah, they weren't, the first one was the biggest. They, we turned them into 500 pound bombers bombs after the 2,000 pound. I think. - Where are you bombing ash at that point? - We're hitting, we're hitting squirters. We're letting them, whatever kind of, whatever kind of type two cast they're running. We're just letting them eat. Yeah, it's like the whole, yeah, given my initials, we got this, I can still see them. - It's like you said, though, with movie scenes, they make these bombs quick. It's like 30 seconds. That's what makes Don, I've seen a miss. I got footage of an F-16 missing a house all by itself and dudes on the ground heckled on the pilot. Shit just happens. Like, I mean, comment's like, weird shit. Nothing, like when they, a lot of shit that this government projects they have that just go on so smooth and no one was hurt, it's like, all right, I've seen literally testing out a Humvee and five guys died. - Right. - Yeah, so. - What made you want to be a seal on the first bomb? - I got done by a girl. - You got done by a girl. - Yeah, so then I wanted to be a Marine. He answered that, so I didn't even finish the question. - Yeah, well, that, I mean, again, it goes with the only time the perfect plan is this is in the planning room. And once you tell God what your plan is tomorrow and it's not, it's different. So I was gonna play basketball in college, which I did at Montana Tech, and yeah, I got done by a girl. And it was a moment most 19 year old dudes have. It was like, I gotta get out of this town. And I had two friends, Jim McBride, Ben Wallacheski, that were, I grew up with two years older than me. They were my sister's age. They always wanted to be a Marine since we were kids in CCD, like young kids. And they always had to simplify to know what that was. And then they left, I went in my junior year, and every time they came back, I'm trying to sneak into bars. I'll see one of those two, dude. Just look like US Marines. Like, like, boot my town as a tough town, mining town. Nobody fucks with them 'cause they're Marines. So when I literally, it's time to get out of town. I'm like, I'm doing that, that's it. I, at least I'll get an awesome haircut, and maybe I can get those abs. I don't know. And I've seen Full Metal Jacket. I've got this. - I mean, there was a guy in that movie that didn't have it. But, yeah. - Yeah, we'll probably find one of the other ones. - Either way, this is gonna be a great ending. So I went to, there's the recruiting station still there in Butamontana. And I walked in, and the Marine recruiter wasn't there, and the Navy guy was. And this is a complete twist of my entire existence in the rest of my family. I went to the Navy guy because Ben and Jim told me a joke. The Marine Corps is actually part of the department of the Navy, it's just the men's department. And so, man to man, I'm gonna ask him, and seriously, so I'm like, hey dude, where's the Marine? I had no idea military bearing what anything means. He's wearing a khaki, he's got an anchor. He's the Navy chief, didn't know what that was, but now he's doing, he's a clever dude. Chiefs from the Navy, and he goes, well, sit down son, why do you want the Marine? Blah blah blah, I'm a hunter, I'm a sniper. I want Marines to have the best sniper in the world. I said, look no further, we have snipers in the Navy. He brushed over seal, but he said we do. But if you get through seal training, we'll send you to sniper school. - Oh, then he hit you with that. - And so I'm standing there, I'm pumped up, Navy seal. And I did see Charlie Sheen's movie, which I actually have the original script to, from Charlie. He gave that to me, that's me. - He gave you the original script? - You can see a manuscript with the notes on it. - The old school 19 A script with a pencil. You can tell the more blow was out, the further the night got and shit and like, there's a phone numbers with hearts, and that's cool. - Oh man, there's a heart, it says Kelly, and there's a number on it. - Why did he give this to me? - Listen to that, I don't know, he's my boy. And so I call them, here's a sentence on the Charlie Sheen can say. I said, there's a number in here, it says Kelly, and it's a heart. And he goes, oh, that's an order of filming in Hawaii. I love Kelly Preston more in one week, and then I loved anyone. And I was married to Denise Richards. I'm like, jeez, join me. I tried to bomb it to drop on a U-Up text. - Is it a cellular number? - Yeah. And it was only the first seven. But where were we on that? Where were we talking about just before? - We were talking about you getting recruited by the guy who's like, - Oh yes. - In his department. - And so I said, yeah, I looked at him and I said, I'm 19, I'm naive, but he's a professional recruiter, why do you lie to me? Literally, he's got to be honest, and so I signed. - What do you think? I mean, that's a big leap for a guy like that. - I didn't know how to swim. - You didn't know how to swim, he didn't know that. But like, what do you think he saw when you walked in there? He's like, he's a number, right? - You know, in Montana, we recruit army and Marines. Maybe some Air Force, 'cause Malester and Air Force bases right there. But Navy doesn't get it myself. I mean, I'm thinking at first, like, fuck it. He's a quote, I mean, I need two a month. Here's one. It's early. - But I mean, and he's donated, same guy's donated to my foundation after I retired. Or got out. - That's cool. - Yeah. - But it's like, it's the seals though. This isn't like, when we're talking quotas, it's a different kind. - He, in his defense, he did his job. He guaranteed me in writing a chance to try out to get orders to seal training. - Oh. - So it was called the dive fairer program. - Got it. So you end up on a ship, if that doesn't work. - And that was, I had an army buddy that didn't get what he wanted in his contract and he came back from high school and said, he gave me advice for life, get it in writing, everything, get it in writing. - Good advice. - So yeah, I took that and then I had about five months. I still had my college ID and they had a pool. So I went up there to, and I don't know how to swim. I mean, I could keep myself alive. There was a lake and shit in Montana. I did not swim, like, stroke. So I'm standing up to dumb as shit. And there's 25 meters and 25 meters. I'm doing the math, no one's there, it's like 5 a.m. And I'm like, all right, I'll swim a thousand and engage it from there, right? - Yeah, and everything was going fine with my plan until I got in the water. I get down to the deep end and literally like, I think I might be in a pickle 'cause I just signed a contract and I can't swim to be a seal. So my buddy Mike is there, Mike Driscoll, and he was going to swim at Notre Dame. And he just, he, this is my luck. I'm like the unluckiest person in the world so I'm really fucking lucky. Like life's horrible, then it's amazing. But he's like, hey man, don't take it. Don't take this the wrong way. Love to see you here. Just literally never seen in the pool what it gives. And I said, oh, I joined the Navy. I'm gonna be a seal and he goes, no, you're, no. - No, you're not. - And then he showed me the breaststroke. And I worked on that for five months. And then that was the stroke that I used to pass the 500 yard swim in boot camp. That's to get orders. So the test is simple. It's 500 yards with breaststroke or sidestroke. It's literally 42 push ups. - Oh, no freestyle. - No, you can't do that. - No, no, you got to swim breaststroke or sidestroke. 42 push ups is 50 set of six pull ups and then run a mile and a half in boots. And now it's boots and camis. It was for me, it was boondockers and jeans. - Right, and that's the boot camp in this. - Yeah, and then you get, and then I got orders and then they sent me to seal training. So that test is nothing. Just to get orders and then you go out there and that's where the fun starts. - Did you have any idea like what to expect in Buds? - I sort of did. I tried to prepare. I read as many books as I can. Rogue Warrior is a must read that. That book got so many guys from my generation that did missions at seal team six. The lead jumper to rescue Jessica to be canon in Somalia and his book is out just in Sheffield. He joined the Navy because of Rogue Warrior. - Because of the book. - And then he rescued her. So she was rescued because of a book that wouldn't get approved by our government. So he had to write it as fiction. He founded seal team six and we've never met him. That's what fucked up our Navy can be. Like why aren't you here every day telling shooters? Why isn't the bin Laden team down there right now telling shooters on the second deck? I don't know. - I always wonder like what guys like that must have seen that the government would be that fucking strict with it, you know? - Well, 'cause he was, well, Marsenko was, he did a thing called red cell. So he was, he was hitting Navy bases and Navy ships and showing him how fucked up their security was. And then seals being seals. They probably had a few whiskeys and then they started tightening up some atoms over a couple of grooming standards or whatever. - Probably. - But you were reading that in some other book. - Yeah, I read that and I read that point, man, by Patches Watson, James Patches Watson. So we're reading Vietnam books. And that was just cool and that's more of a gritty, like when I met Patches Watson, actually, as a, before I even deployed, but I was a seal at Sniper School in Indiana. Just a legend, Starstruck. And he just like, I remember it, but I'm thinking the Hollywood-esque, oh, Vietnam, my God. And he's like, well, Vietnam was a fun war son. - It was a fun war. - Like fun, he's like, yeah, you go swimming and then you hunt people all night and then you go get chow and beer. Yeah, it's fun. I'm like, that does sound fun, I want to do that. But I read that shit and then I figured I was working on the swim. I actually still have the notebook. My recruiter gave me like the fold of the Navy shit with the times, my times decreasing in the swim and shit. And then, so I get to seal training, I'm like, I'm a good swimmer. Then I run into guys who are the captain of the water polo team of the Naval Academy. Tom Donovan, I run it too. And he actually, I think he's a three star now, but he's an answer when I run into him. And he gave me advice that I even realized it. And I was actually a red squad and with him, it sealed him six later when he was a lowly captain or whatever. And I, he didn't give a fuck about me at the time. He's an answer. And I just said something outside by the cage. Like, man, I'm scared, shitless, but you must be really scared 'cause you're in charge as an officer and he goes, the fuck you scared of? He goes, what, what are you scared of? I said, I don't, I don't know. And he goes, exactly, don't be afraid. And that's all I said, like, oh, yeah. Okay, see you ocean. Good point. And that that was good. Okay. Then it kind of snapped me into a mindset. And then there's instructor that played, um, I should I think he might have played with one of the Globetrotters traveling teams is white dude that yeah. And he for some reason liked me because word spread that I played but I knew how to dribble a basketball. And uh, he yeah, yeah. Oh, I got us out of some beatings because I could make three pointers on my knees and she like that. That's good. I had to do it. I mean, he's got some ass on the class of people in college. Bro, I'm literally getting out of an asset. But, you know, trust me with your life, not your money or your wife. And uh, but um, he said, uh, everyone is talking about psilocybin mushrooms right now and rightfully so. But what if I told you that there's another mushroom that's completely legal and instead of making you trip, it gives you this relaxed jolly buzz. The mushroom I'm talking about is called Aminita Muscaria. The red one with the white spots you've definitely heard of before. And this is where it gets interesting. It's not psilocybin and it's not a traditional psychedelic. At higher doses, it can feel sedating, even a little dreamy, but at lower doses, it's a completely different experience. For me, it's way more grounding puts me into a calm, focused state and even helps with sleep. Like you're going to get deeper sleep, more vivid dreams and actually wake up feeling rested. The reason I felt comfortable even trying Aminita is because my friends at Aminita, if you look into Aminita at all, you know the space could be messy. Gas station products, sketchy blends, Aminita is the opposite. They've served over 50,000 customers. Everything is lab tested, cleanly sourced, and fully transparent. They also have a wide range of products, so you can find what works best for you. I like taking one of their blue lotus extract capsules before going to sleep after I've had a long, wired day, and I'm out very quickly and waking up feeling well rested the next morning. So go to Aminita.com/go/julian or click the link in my description below. And when you do, make sure you use code JDP22 for 22% off your first order. Once again, that's aminita.com/go/julian. Code JDP22. I know you've read the books and seen the movies, regardless of what you've been told, this course is not impossible. People graduate. Yeah. And I look at him, he's like, well, look at me. I'm living proofs. I'll never ask you to do anything impossible. I'm going to make you do something really hard, followed by something really hard, followed by something really hard. I'm going to do that day after day after day for eight straight months. And that will sound like a lot if you think about it like that. But don't do it that way. Here's how you can, here's how you get to seal training. You wake up in the morning on time, make your bed the right way and then brush your teeth. That's three wins. Your day just started with three victories. That's pretty fucking cool. Make it to the 4 a.m. workout on time, which is your fourth win. And then as I'm beating, you don't think about the pain. That's going to end concentrated on your next goal in life, which is breakfast. After breakfast, do make it to lunch. Your next go out to lunch is dinner. And then after dinner, do everything you need to do to get back inside that perfectly made bed because you took the time for yourself in the morning to make your bed the right way, regardless of how bad today was. And it will be bad. Tomorrow is a clean slate, a fresh start. And when you feel like quitting, which is very simple. When you feel like quitting, which you will never quit right now, that's emotion. Never respond emotionally quit tomorrow. And if you can keep quitting tomorrow, you can do anything in life, including getting through fucking seal training. I'll do it. That's just a visual, a perfect video. Literally. How to stay present. And then I was like, well, I mean, and I said some shit like, well, I have to wake up early for sunscreen. He goes, then get the fuck up early. That's five wins. Give the kid a book and he eats it. But I mean, then you're in it, though. And it's easy to look at it. But that gets intense because you get to like hell week is where it separates. That's where like, don't make any friends before Wednesday of hell week is what I tell kids now. Because Wednesday is your long term going hell week. Hell week where they wake you up on Sunday, and you don't do you do everything till Friday. No sleep. If you sleep, it's 20 minutes here on Thursday. Right. And again, I saw a dude quit on fear, right? Like we're fear. Fear. We're starting the first part of hell weeks about an hour where like the sun's down. They're beating your ass. They're spraying you with water. You're going back and forth to surf. So they're shooting off blanks and 60 and grenade simulators. It's in the shows. It's awesome. It's fun. That's the only fun part of hell week. That's fun. The parents of families, wives and kids are up on the buildings watching break out of hell week. It's just cool. And you're getting beat. It's fun. Then you go into hell week and it's just fucking sucks. But we're sitting in these tents getting ready to what way and like we're like, dude, I'm fucking starting hell week. Like I'm getting into fight this. I'm ready. I'm fucking ready. Let's do this. This kid is a, he's my, they assign you brand new swim buddies for confusion. Because as soon as you get out there splitting you up, then you can't find your swimmer. They're beating you for that. It's a fucking game. Get it in your head. But this kid's sitting with my new swim buddy. And he'd been there for a while because he got rolled back and he goes, man, I'm fucking scared. And I'm like, funny. He goes, no, dude, I'm fucking scared. I'm like, you're scared now. I was like, he's like, I'm probably gonna quit. I'm like, no, no, I was like, quit after the fun shit. Like go go through that. Have that story. Five minutes in. Fucking quiz. He talked, like if you're talking yourself and including, there's no hope for you. And then what that instructor said to me too, before right before hell, because we watch Braveheart with Donovan. And that dude, there's 20 Navy Seals now that owed Tom Donovan their careers, because we watch Braveheart the whole time you're in hell, we keep screaming freedom. Like dude's running on broken legs because he's William fucking Wallace. But yeah, we're doing that and that instructor said, again, just cool as that. I don't know why he liked me. But he said, you're about to go to war for the first time and the enemy's all your doubts, all your fears and everyone back home that told you you couldn't do this. Keep your head down. Keep moving forward when you feel like quitting. Quit tomorrow. It seems like with you this two things it really stand out. Number one, you see the comedy and everything. Everything. Literally everything. Everything. That's huge. And then the second thing is that you're one of those guys, like the way I described it, is like you like to put your hand on the kettle while it's boiling just to see how long you can hold the fingers there. You got to compare and go, God, that's awesome. And time it, did I beat my last time? Yeah, exactly. Like you're, you're, you're self-competitive. My wife said that the other night in bed said, what are you timing? I'm like fucking everything. Why aren't you asleep? Because I'm losing the parlay. But I feel like if you were putting together like a concoction of things that can keep you present, like he was giving you advice to do, that's a pretty good combination. We, when I woke up every, every morning at CL Team 6, every fucking morning, even in selection, which sucked, what was the best time of my life? Well, I was excited to get to work and go to people who were better than me with people. Like when, like, and I was competitive as shit, like, I'm going to out shoot you. I'm going to beat you. There were two dudes that consistently would beat me or whatever. But when they did, I would say, okay, what did you eat today? I noticed you move to, that pouch was there. Now it's here. Did you work out or shoot first today? Did you log out your shot? What are you doing? Then I'm not. Why'd you beat me? Shut up like that. And that's how the guys were. And you get in the moment, though, even even before, right before the bin Laden raid, like we did the final brief, like our shit is on. And we're going to go and we're, we're going to die. And Adam will build McCraven was there. And he was running Jay Sock at the time. And he's one soul that to bin Laden for seal team six to get. He's going to, that's what we won. We don't need a pep talk. I don't, I don't need it. I got it. I've done this a lot. We've killed a lot of people. They don't fucking, and he said, but I want to tell you guys this. Last night I watched my favorite movie. It's called Hoosers. And it's about this basketball team from Hickory, Indiana. And there's like seven guys in the team, really small place. And all they do is travel to each other's towns and play basketball. That's it. They have never left. But this team is such a good team and so well coached. They make it to the state championship. It's in Minneapolis. And these kids have never seen this. And they walk out. They're obviously in awe. And their mind's not there. So coach recognizes that and he grabbed a tape measure and says, what's the measurement from the free throw line to the rim? And they're like 15 feet coach. Go get on his shoulders. What's the measurement from the rim to the floor? It's 10 feet coach. He said, you're going to find these are the same measurements exactly as your gym in Hickory. This is just a bigger audience. And he looked at us and goes, you guys do this every night. So we get up to leave. And I'm walking out. And I think the only time I've ever called him bill. And he's a CLT 6 guy, but he's a fucking Adam. And I said, Bill, you are so busy selling this mission. I highly doubt you watched Hoosiers last night. But you were fucking born to give us that speech. Yeah. Right now. See in a few hours. That's one another amazing dude. Right. It's like, and like tell me you don't want to start at least doing jazz right now. I got goosebumps right there because it's like, but then we're walking out. And the woman that found bin Laden's out there. And she's real, the 30 Jessica Chastain. Nailed it. That's that woman nailed it. Hot, but in a different way. And I promise I would never describe her except for that. Got it. And if anyone finds I'll never say who she is. But if you find out who she is, hire her. I don't give a fuck what you do hire her. She'll figure it out for you. But she's out there. And I think she might have been smoking like, I don't think she's whatever. And that's kind of hot. Yeah. Yeah. And I walk faster. I said, I figured I fuck with that. I go, um, hey, why are you nervous? And she goes, why the fuck aren't you nervous? I said, well, because I do this every night. And I get unhealthy. I fly somewhere. I fuck with some people and I fly back. I said, this is just a longer flight for me. Of course, you know, you need to be right. No, I just so I see what you're nervous seeing a few hours. Again, that was like my go-to line or whatever. And you know, I just call my dad and, um, and that was a weird call. I, he was my last phone call to leave to die. Why did, why did you? I, I grew up with him. Um, when my parents divorced, I eventually moved in with him and we played basketball and we, uh, we wouldn't leave the gym. He played college basketball at the University of Montana. And we wouldn't leave the gym and we worked out every day, two, two and half, three hours. We could not leave the gym till one of us made 20 free throws in a row. That, and so we can, we're going to leave now a free throws. We can be done in a minute and a half. We might be here another five hours. So the start shoot is start on a make. And that pisses me off. I watch, uh, I bet a lot on, uh, NBA finals and, uh, March madness. You know, it pisses me off. You're set. You shoot. You make it. Why are you moving your feet to shake to fucking hands? You just did your job. Congratulations. We'll patch your ass later. Right. Make the shot. So we'd wait. Start on a make. Then you got to make 20. So the first make you got it. It rains, finders there. And the only argument he and I had, do you look at the rim or do you follow the ball? He follows the ball. I look at the rim. It doesn't matter. That's how you muscle memory, though. Um, uh, do everything. You want to be good at something. Do it a hundred thousand times. you're gonna be in chess, you'll be good at it. - There's that self-competition, though. - Play it. - There's where it's coming from. - But this got better between he and I, because it's 20 to leave the gym, but at the beginning of my season, it's 20 to go to the derby for a stake. That's on Harrison Avenue, but Montana, the derby. But when you hit that milestone, it moves up five. So 25 for the stake, 20 and 30 for the stake, 20 to leave the gym. And we got to a point where he, I think he made 91 free throws in a row. And that was the fact, my dad made 91 in a row. That was a record for a week and a half, 'cause I made 105 the next week. And that's just how we got, so that was the muscle memory. So he's my buddy. - And raised you when your parents separated? - I was too young. And they pretended they got along for the kids, which is awesome. And they lived like, it's cute Montana. They're a mile apart. And then, you know, he, well, and he was funny, 'cause he always thought, that's my son, that he did that. Like when I joined and then the five months in the delayed entry program, the class 207 was on the today's show. So I was gonna be 208, 207 was on the today's show. And then there's a life magazine thing. There were people doing drown proofing, which is when they tie their hands behind your back and your feet together, right? So he's showing me, this is my dad, it's funny. He's showing me this thing goes, "That's you right there, I can tell by your cast." So I'm like, "Dad, I literally, I'm not in the Navy yet." That's not me at all. And fuck me, I can tell by your calves. It's like I'm, you haven't, I would've said goodbye. I didn't secretly leave. Like I'm gonna miss you. And then like, and even in the Navy though, we started to do shit, like we, before 9/11, I was with Jaco Willink in that platoon. Drago was in that platoon. He's a famous Navy CEO from Poland. - Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. I got to get you on here, you got to get there. - Yeah, I would love to. - I'll do that. - What's the, so you weren't still team six? - That was two. And then we took down a Russian tank or full of smog of that wrecky oil and up on CNN for that shit. - Nice. - And my dad sees that. And then eventually I'm on the Liberia thing where we swim in my dad's. He's that shit. 'Cause I went up to, I went up to a Fox News reporter. Could pull, now there's pictures out there. It's the one with me and the big thing with a huge dip in and I went over 'cause I wanted to see, find Jennifer Eccleson who worked at Fox News. And I walk up and I go, "Hey, I'm looking for Jennifer Eccleson to the reporter." And he kicked over a seal with a fucking gun. I just, I just swam in off that shit. And he thought it was funny and I said, "I'm looking for Jack." And he goes, "Oh man, she left last week." And I said, "You tell her I'm gonna find her." And he literally goes, "He literally goes, bring her a carton of marble or red. She smokes like a fucking shit." Like that. So my dad saw that shit in that picture. And then the lone survivor run them out for that. And then I called him on Good Friday April 10th. There's my birthday and said, "Hey, dad, I gotta go." And he's like, he said something about pirates. I'm like, fucking, yeah, dad, small pirates on my birthday. We gotta go smaller, especially Richard Phillips. So he just knows, he thinks, so I call him from Pakistan before-- - Dirty was on that one, right? - Yeah, for Phillips, yeah. That's when he had the Rolex. He bought a Rolex-- - Shout out to Dirty Dan for putting this together by the way. - Thanks buddy. Yeah, I'll tell the Rolex story after this. Don't let me forget. So he just convinced I'm doing everything. Now, I just finished like my 13th deployment to Afghanistan. We're just training. But that's when the bin Laden thing happened. So I have to go to Pakistan, can't tell anybody. So I call my dad from Jalalabad, Afghanistan, from one of our beehats where we have landline sort of. And he doesn't know I'm over there. And I said, "And I would call him before missions a lot." And say, "Hey, dad, like I rack whatever. We're going out every night." Well, "Hey, dad, gotta go to work calling for you." It's like what I say to everybody. And he would always say, "You know, I wish I could go with you." And I'd say, "I know, dad, I wish you could too." Shit like that. And I called him before the bin Laden. And I say, "Dad, I'm going to work." But before I go, I got to thank you for it. And he's like, "What do you mean?" And I'm like, "I just thanks for teaching me how to be a man." Like the death talk, like for shooting for e-thousand. I got to go to work. And he said, "You know, I wish I was going with you." And I said, "I'm with some good guys." Then you go out there and then you see the guys and you get on a bird. But that's a hard, he was at a, it's still, he still can't really tell that story. He was at it right away. He knew. And he's at a Walmart parking lot. And he said he walked into Walmart and viewed Montana. And he was, he's funny too. And he said, "Now I'm using my two favorite words, "which are catatonic and apoplectic." 'Cause that's me walking. And he ran into his sister who's a registered nurse. And she's like, "Fuck's going on." 'Cause something's wrong. And he said, "Whatever." You know, fast forward, we're watching Obama say his speech. And we're like, "Can you say that no one was hurt?" 'Cause he knows at this point. But yeah, so I just called my dad for it. I left him and we get on a bird. And it's, you got a 90 minute flight with your boys. And we're going to die on this one. This is the one we mentioned. We do know that. - Have they told, like, when you were having your conversations with McCraven and all that? Obviously, the goal is to go in there and kill him. But the question is, how the fuck are you going to get out? Was there like anything explicit where he's like? - This is a badass story. I was not in the room for this, but the word got back to us. When we sold it to President Obama, when we attempted to, it's these two new birds flying in maximum, I think, 32 minutes on the ground, you've got to be in the birds to fly out 'cause you're going to run out of fuel. We cannot refuel. So if we're over, we might have to hard point. And so we're going to hard point it and we're going to announce to the locals. 'Cause you got a fear of going in there. I don't want to kill the cops. This is their city. And the first responders aren't going to be the military. It's going to be local cops. I just don't, I'm going to fuck them up. I don't want to kill five cops. I don't need that. I've already got a guilty conscience. So we're going to hard point and then you can do and send someone to Pakistan and like negotiate our release 'cause whatever. And this is the word I got. I think McRaven might have said, and I don't want to put words in his mouth. But someone told us that he said, okay, that's interesting. And he looked at the chief, this is President Obama. Look at the chief of staff at the Air Force and said, what do you need to rain hell in Pakistan? And my fucking boys aren't surrendering to anybody. Which is pretty dope. Because that is, if you think about it, everything, especially with Barack Obama is political, he hadn't been re-elected yet. If he fucks this up, he's not getting that. And we have to go right now because of the aluminum cycle. So he knows this and he's doing the right thing. That's why you will rarely hear me say anything negative about him because on my night to die, he stepped up for us. So that was, and so then we got the gorilla package and we got potentially, he, well, shit load more helicopters, full of Rangers, which is always awesome. Like, you know, it's going to suck to get stuck here. But when those 500 Rangers show up, we're going to have a good night. Because invasions are fun. And that's what this is turning into. This won't be a forever war. I'm going to steal everything I fit in my pockets and we'll go. But, uh, yeah, so that was cool to get more of that. And then the, we had 247 synopsis behind us. 45 minutes to, they have extra fuel. They have seal team six guys. They got Rangers and, uh, so that did make us feel better. And then obviously we found about the super secret helicopters. And that was a, because, well, because one of the things is we're going to get shot down. It's 90 minutes in. And I remember even, because I like, well, we were saying it's a humor and I like fucking around. We had a table about this size to scale of his house and we would talk about it every night. And, uh, guys were getting off and I said, hey, you need to take this more serious. This is a one way mission. So we're going to get you were telling them just right now. I want you to be serious. We can fuck off later. Did they think that too? Or was it? Yeah. It's one of those I don't want to talk about it. Right. But we're doing it. Like fucking go. Come on. This is it. What an ending. What an ending. Yeah. What a legacy. Um, but then we get out to wherever. And I can't say, but it's in Nevada. And, uh, we. High elevation, right? Yeah. We got to sign a lot of papers. Yeah. Okay. What you think you may have. Yeah. Anyway, but we, we were walking to this hangar. We have this kind of, and we turned the corner. The helicopters are, I started laughing. And they're like, what's so funny now? I'm like, well, we might live because we're going to war on transformers, dude. Like, look at these other things. And then, yeah. Oh, you know, they're just more room. I mean, the pilots hadn't flown before. They didn't know they existed. And then they, we trained with those things and, uh, and then went over to Jalalabad and, and, and, and shout out to the, there was already a COT six squad and over there. So blue squadron was there. Can you imagine you were red squadron at the time, right? Can you imagine being deployed at COT six? I'm, I am the top unit. And they're sending another unit from COT six to go out for fucking Osama bin Laden. Are you shitting me? And we did that. So we, and they were fucking professional. If I was blue squadron, I would hate me. All of us. And they were cool. Totally cool. They, what we played cards with them, like, they said, they, their biggest complaint was we weren't fun to play poker with because every hand, we were all in because I'm going to be dead next week. Yeah, but they were, I mean, complete pros, man. I mean, to this day, I'm a man. That's cool. That's cool. It says something about being a professional. Well, I mean, even the Maduro rate, I was jealous as fuck. 28 minutes out in St. Jealousy. It's so proud of those guys. What, what, what, so we used like a hypersonic weapon or something there? You know what? This administration is really, really good at not telling us. And they're doing stuff for different reasons. And, I mean, direct energy, hypersonic weapons. I don't know what the nine bangers of things they were dropping out of supersonic aircraft going below. Yeah. I don't know what that was. I'm assuming they were jets that could have been hyper. I don't know. Yeah. There was some, I don't know. I assume, like, you know, some of the guys who were there. Uh, yeah. But I'm getting older. You know, I'm 50. Right. These are the young stars. How about that pilot, though, that got hit with artillery and kept flying? Yeah. So our, one of our guys, Christian, the Venezuelan, lives right there. We couldn't, when this was first dropping the next day, we couldn't get him on the phone. And I was like, oh my god, they killed Christian, the Venezuelan. He's like the team mascot. And then I get him on the phone. I get him on FaceTime. And he's like, Julia, I'm like, you're alive. He's like, wrong. It was awesome. Man, we heard the helicopters go over in the middle of the night. We went outside and there was, oh, yes, we were just like USA, USA, USA, and he loved it. He loved it. I went down to the USA. They went in his way, the game in Miami, those people that I loved and they can fuck you. And they know how to go to a baseball game. Yeah. The Venezuelans. Oh, yeah. No, they love baseball. I don't know if you've seen some of these, but those were given, I mean, by one, if you scroll the other way, too, there's like a bunch. But I just kept looking at it. And I'm a goddamn civilian, so I couldn't think of every possible way they'd do it. But some of it looked like there was some advanced shit going on. That is, yeah. That's a, that looks like a dab. a direct air penetrator, direct action penetrator? Yeah, a dab. Look up a dab. It's a black Hawk, but it's got all kinds of shit on it. Or in a pat. - Yeah, he said some shit was light enough. - I think if Delta went, I think TF160 went, and that, well, they definitely went, that means Daphs went with them. So look up a dab. That's it, yeah, check that bad boy out. - I should have run my computer, I guess I'm real. Yeah, these guys you're getting their heads blown off. This is, this helicopter shit. But again, too, you know what you got to figure? Blue my mind was, you have all this happened. All of this, all around you. Say you're a soldier, a Cuban working for Maduro. All this happens. And now Delta forces running at you, and you decide to shoot at them. What is luck? Like don't you just try this? Like I'm not a big that, but like these guys, they got us. And with, based on the aircraft, I'm assuming they're not complete savages. So they might like to go shoot for my police. (laughing) I'm not, it's not like Afghanistan 05, where I couldn't get butt fun to Daphne. I think I got a good, for some reason, but I'm just happy to see that American flag right now. Not that they're not capable of. Even, did you see the video of what turned out to be some of the tests run for that, where they had Trump watching it, it was like six months before or something? Yeah, so he's there and we didn't know this is what it was, but someone just took like a cell phone video of him watching the guys like go, go, go, go on the ground and then like run into the building and everything. And it turned out that was them doing like the first, I guess run through of one of the possible scenarios or whatever, but even watching that, and you know it's just a military testing ground, like there's no real people. You're watching that and you're like, oh shit, those guys are fun. - They're fucking good. They're fun. The first time I worked with Delta and I'm at SEAL Team 6, and I saw them in Iraq, like that I saw them and they're gonna have little burns. I just got to, I'm like, not gonna say anything, but that's fucking Delta Force, it's kinda cool. Like these are some legit dudes. - Yeah. - Really good dudes. But yeah, when I saw that too, just the overwhelming, literally, I love that mission, like I love the Bin Laden raid because we will come get you if we need to. And this isn't even us taking the gloves off. Wait till we do. Like people should be happy the United States is the superpower. If we wanted to take everything we could. We're just really nice. - We're really nice. - We're nice shit, we might bomb the shit out of you, but we're nice. We could do a lot more, we could bomb the shit and then take your shit and get rid of you and take more shit and then make more Americans and then we have our 53rd, 54th, 50th estate. - Anywhere? - Anywhere. - Even China. - Yes. - Why do you say that? You're very confident. - China's lying to us. They don't have the population they think they have. - They don't, I agree with that. - They're gonna collapse. That's what they're playing nice. China, if China could take over, they would, if China could take Taiwan, they would. They're just playing nice, like maybe, no, they don't give a fuck. They're still pissed about the opium wars from like the 1800s. That's why they were funneling all that, like a dime on the dollar heroin into Vietnam. You couldn't get heroin that good or that cheapened Manhattan. - Yeah. - Well, they were funneling a lot. - No precursors to Mexico to here too. - Well, in Canada too, yeah. - Yeah. - They're trying, yeah. I'm not saying a paper tiger. I don't wanna go to war with them. I think it's better to do what Trump's doing, but the entire world's a much better place with a strong America and with real people in charge. And now, I mean, like, you got the Democrat people that are there now. You know, damn, well, they're not in charge. The people behind them are the ones in charge but they're the vehicles doing what they wanna do. And I mean, that's, well, that's where the, the world war is not gonna come from. It's bombing Iran. The next world war is gonna come from England, defending itself with Ireland. - Wait, woo-hoo, that is not where I thought you were going. - England defending itself with Ireland. - Yeah, England's got a pretty proud history. - Uh-huh. - Yeah. - You see what's happening over there? - Yeah. - I've been to Ireland for three times in the last four or five months. Talk to the locals, yeah. I mean, you're not getting, this is fake. - Yeah. - Yeah, go on, get on the ground. Yeah, that's gonna, when England defends itself from Ireland. - Yeah. - No, no, no, no, no, no. England and, no, no, no, no, I'm sorry. No, England, sorry, sorry. Let's back up and don't clip that to make me look like a fucking idiot. When England and Ireland start fighting, I don't know which side to fight at. You know, 'cause they're being invaded right now, just like they were during the crusades. And so when, and the politicians now, the politicians are so afraid of the invasion that they're like the kid that got stabbed and killed and he was handcuffed. - Oh yeah. - Yeah, shit like that is getting old. So eventually when the, the English and the Irish don't have anywhere to go. They're home. So when they decide to start fending them, defending them, I'm just telling you what, I'm not, I'm not like running over with the IRA. I'm just saying I went over to the work of Conor McGregor. But I'm talking to people in his pub and they're pissed off. And they like to fight too. - Oh yeah. - So, no, but the word I'm getting is, eventually they're gonna have to go after the first people that are fair game with their politicians and you're seeing some old school shit there. And then, when the invaders are eventually being pushed, they're not going back. 'Cause once the radical Muslims get 51%, it is going to change dramatically. And when they get pushed back, they're not getting pushed back to the Middle East. They're going to places like France. And that's where their politicians are too. So what happens if they're in positions of power and they own part of the military? That's what I'm saying. - So you're saying the more direct threat right now to you is the UK. - Not to me. Not to me. - No, no, no, no, I'm not saying to us. I'm saying, no, a world war will start from there. - That's what I'm saying. - Like a threat. - Because we are going to have England's back. So when that's start, I'm not saying right now, but no one's looking on the horizon for this. The England Europe is being invaded. England will fight. France, come on. I have a French assault rifle, I'll sell you. It's never been fired and only dropped once. France is not going to fight shit, but England will. - Lovely place. Steve and I were just staring to sell. - Hey, I, I, yeah, my daughter speaks French. - Yeah. - Great. I don't have an ear for the language. - What I'm, what all I'm doing is as a former special operator, I'm just telling you what I think. - Right. - That looks like, as far as world wars go, like old school wars, not like Spawn and Millie's we've been doing that shit, just for the love of the game. (laughing) - That's one way. - But I mean, a world war where armies fight each other, that's the most realistic world war. - Do you think that that is how the next world war is actually precisely going to be fine? - Oh, oh, how it's going to be fine? Oh god, drones are horrifying. - Right. - Because we've got like mother ships with drones. - Right. - And then we're just going to drop all the drones. Like we've got fighters that deploy fighters. And there's no pilots behind the little fighters, but they're real missiles. - Yeah, I have Brandon saying in here, I've had Jesse Hamel in here this year. - Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. - So Brandon's obviously ex-needial. - And just to be clear, I'm not saying Ireland's going to fight England. Even though they-- - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - They have, they have, they're my world war, Ireland. - There's a thing, there's going to be bad blood. (laughing) - No, I'm just saying the defense of Europe will have to happen because we're they going to go Iceland. - Maybe, maybe Greenland. - Maybe that's what we're doing. - Hey, that's what we're all doing. Yeah, that's what we're doing. - But if you notice the countries too, that Trump said he's coming after all Western hemisphere, other than Iran, like the-- - What do you think that is? - It's the shift of, going away from NATO. The shift of alliances with the oil, the Iranian oil and the crude, the heavy crude, and that's why they're mixed perfectly for pipelines. They fit. - Now you, so if I remember correctly, the one you've been on so many shows over the years, the one that I fucking watched, and it was the middle of the night when I was in my parents' house doing this, and I'd be up late editing, I watched you four years ago with Sean Ryan, which was fucking awesome. - Thank you. - And I remember you talked about, the time you spent over in Kosovo as well, which obviously, to me, I'm so fascinated by all that, that's like a forgotten war and what was going on there, but that's where you kind of cut your teeth, and that was directly involving NATO back at the time. So I guess the question is, what's so different about NATO now, versus back then, that makes it like, - Oh, I think it is Donald Trump, because NATO was supposed to, I wanna say they're responsible for 3% of their GDP to pay for North-Ellen treaty organization, right? And they weren't. They're ripping us off, Spain, all of them. I think just the ones paying were the brand new ones that are still afraid of climate is Russia, places like Estonia, Lafayl, Lithuania. But the old school America's hats, like hey, we're in trouble, please come get us again. Those people, they're just arrogant, then we put up with that shit. I don't know why, the same reason that we send, like I just said, I won't badmouth Obama, we're sending billions in euros cash overnight. - Right. - So shit like that, and again, we see it now, every tax dollar you spend is corrupt. - Oh yeah, so what better way to be corrupt than if this America's gonna protect us, we don't need shit, and that's the way it is, and we're just spending all of our money, $40 trillion in debt stuff like that, which we can finance by the way with these new words if we decide to fight the way we should. But yeah, and they're against that, look what they're doing right now, like they don't want us to use their base. This is when we're asking for their help, when Ukraine's the most corrupt, one of the most corrupt countries in the world, and they all want to help there, because it might get uncovered how corrupt they are, because of Ukraine, that's where we're funneling money there too. So they're just baskets of, they need a bath. I mean, shit, maybe the invasion's good for them. - I think that this is one of those things where if it turns out that it's like a negotiating tactic as well because we've been getting ripped off financially for so long, and you could kind of rebalance that to where you still have friends around the world and they don't hate you, but now it's a more fair relationship. - We have friends around the world, but you have to realize what Babe Ruth said, the loudest booze come from the cheapest seats. So you've got your funded by guys like George Soros, but then you got these morons out there that you're ringing the whistles of for some reason, someone's either getting paid off or blackmailed in the media, that's why they're giving this a shit. And that's good people are waking up to that too. - For sure. - But yeah, with, I mean, it's gonna be a shift, not all of NATO, but they are gonna have to realize whether bread's buttered and they're taking heavies now. You can only, eventually every throat's gonna get cut. You can only appease the guy with the knife or so long. It's not like, okay, we'll get down to a few of you guys. We all know what happens to the useful idiots, but I mean, yeah, a lot of politicians shouldn't realize that 'cause it only happens every single thing. fucking time. This is why they burned the books. Like they always say they were burned of books. You got it. That's what you should be asking really. Well, what was in them? What was in the books there? Because the whole cute thing about history was written by the victor is true, but that could be really fucking bad. Because now you just get to see what they what they do for sure. Why, I mean, no, we did we need to firebond resin or you're getting rid of some history too. Yeah. We're rabbit holes. I like this lot a lot of rabbit holes for that. And that's the thing. You know, I always use the example of even like the American revolution, which I think objectively was amazing. What those guys put off. I studied the shit out of it. But like even something like that where it was a tyranny, stamping down on a faraway colony and it went on and on. Like it's still 90%. You know what I mean? It's never a hundred percent of what you heard. Like there's still that 10% there where we're like, yeah, we probably shouldn't have done that either. That's just the nature of humanity. There's nothing that's fucking perfect. Once you insert the human element. Yes. Everything changes. Because with the human element comes the power and the money, like the prostitution, then the blackmail like this every single time telegraph road is one of the best songs ever written. My daughter asked me if I had one song to listen to forever, but it by dire straits is listen to lyrics today that describes what happens every single time. The Vatican same shit men power corruption. Can we pull up the lyrics? I mean, I even like I just I'm rereading the Bible as a history book now because I'm really interested in the apostles because you always care, oh, he denied him three times for the cockroars. Like, well, why would you do that? Well, put yourself in the moment. The Romans are grabbing and they're whipping and whatever. And you're with that. No, I'm not. No, I'm not. No, I'm not. Cockrole. Like, so what were they thinking? It's like, look, look at Judas 30 pieces of silver. I'm hedging my bed. He is the saver and he'll forgive me. He's not. Yeah, 30 pieces of fucking silver. Right. It's it. And these are just fishermen and fucking tax collectors. In, you know, 2000 years, I've been there now those people sucked 2000 years. Yeah, we got we got the lyrics up right there. Yeah. All right, a long time ago came a man on a track walking 30 miles with a sack on his back and he put down his load where he thought it was the best he made a home in the wilderness. He built a cabin in a winter store and he plowed up the ground by the cold lake shore. And the other travelers came walking down the track and they never went further. No, they never went back. They came to churches. They came to schools. Then came or then came the churches. Then came the schools. Then came the lawyers. Then came the rules. Then came the trains and the trucks and their loads and the dirty old track with the telegraph. Yeah, that paints and in between their mark and awful or play like a five-minute solo. So it's just awesome. Yeah, that's it's a great band. Like the one of my regrets I've never seen them live. And they're not around. Maybe AI will be able to do that for the future. Well, if whatever technology we use in a year to have the aliens show up, maybe they can put directorates on a stage for Rob O'Neal. You're not buying the disclosure either. You know, I think Glenn Beck said it best when they said, yeah, the aliens are here and they're saying they invented everything including Jesus and Glenn Beck just said, yeah, that sounds like something a demon would say. You know what? That's actually kind of a bar. That's why I'm rereading it as a history lesson. I'm like, this shit's happening all the time. Yeah, so wait obviously when you've read the Bible in the past, you're reading it from the religious perspective. But what's like like reading it historically? Yes. Jesus of Nazareth instead of Jesus Christ because I want to know what the man was because he's the word of God in human form and so he's a human. So he gets to do the crucifixion and he knows my time is not yet come. It's common. And even in the garden during the last supper, he's asking like, we got to do this. We got to do this for film the prophecy. So that's like these are just so I'm so knowing what he went through. And the pastor of the Christ is a great movie to watch because of it's not just I hung on across. He died in five minutes. Oh, it's intense. It's intense. And that's what they did. That's what Romans did. It's the crucifixion was probably the worst way to die. But in that getting flayed, which I think one of the apostles definitely did. And these are people like you don't get flayed for a lie by the way. If you believe in something and they're cutting you, skinning you and you still believe it, something's real. But Jesus, the man knowing this is going to happen and goes through it. And then 400 eyewitnesses saw him come back from the dead. My faith is I think because all all the other religions met in East or Jesus, I think Jesus of Nazareth is credible. So I'm going with him. It's just a man that's going through that and tell you're going to do this. You're going to do this. I'm getting tortured. I'm going to do it. And all he could do is forgive him the whole time there. You know, like and he just forgave me. They don't know what they do. And then he wrote from the dead people saw it. Yeah, no matter. Well, Thomas is late for the first meeting, I guess. He's my favorite deposit. Not only was he late, he didn't believe him. He said, I need to see the holes. And then Jesus came back. Hey, motherfucker, it's your savior. Nothing wrong with that. Get a little proof. Yeah, trust me. Trust me. I'm sorry. He was a Reagan. It was Thomas. Well, he was the one, too, in the apostasy screen that made sure we knew he descended into hell on the third day he rose from the dead again. St. Thomas made sure that was in there because Jesus went down to heaven to talk to the people who weren't there before there before him. Now I'm going to preach you a little bit and tell you you can be saved too. Like Moses and Abraham, shit like that. Did you grow up with faith or did that? I grew up Catholic and I went to Catholic school, which means I don't know a fucking thing about it. Right. They don't teach anything. Yeah, I went to Catholic school. Yeah, I don't know. I'm literally learning stuff now at 50 that I had no. And that's why I'm rereading it. Like when I was taught as like mythology, just so we can understand how it's like, I'm just going to go with this because there's a lot of firmament shit out there. And that's I think I think paragraph one of Genesis covers that. So yeah, let's just let's just go. I've been going with this for one. I'm going to read an entire book based on that. I always think of in the beginning of the of the departed the montage when Jack Nicholson's given the speech. And he's like, first we had the church. And that was whatever. Neil Stan and like the way he says, I'm like, oh, wow, that makes that's what it was. You just did what you were. Oh, yeah, we're supposed to say this now. So you never think about it. No, I even my thing because I started going back to the church after I started when I began for PTSD, which is the plant based medicine and it opens your mind. So I started doing that and they just legalized. Yeah, I was down in the noble office with the president for that. Oh, that's right. I saw you in there. That's cool. And I started going back to the church, but then I'm getting nitpicky. Like they're they always sing a lot in Catholic church. And so I'm like, I don't need to hear this fucking lady solo. We should be saying a role. Sarah's, I don't need to hear because he's one saying no one sings because we don't know the blind people bitch about it. Whatever. But then I'm like, why are we singing? Well, because God created this world with his voice. And he created man with his breath. And he's the voice of God in the body of Jesus. So your voice, like, look, Taliban, no music, bad guys sing. God wants you to sing. So I'm singing now. I got to learn the lyrics. We, you know, I mean, let's be honest, they could have used any Van Halor some. Yeah, they could use something. So we need corn from the 90s. Yeah. And what's that thing they do, like Dane Cook used to have that bit where he's like, you never know, they're not singing, but they're not talking. He's just like, And then I take the Eucharist. And you're like, well, who was, who was, who was saying that? Why am Billy, um, shit, I'm, I forget, especially pumpkins, Billy Corkin, how he was saying, uh, have you noticed? He said in the industry right on the late 90s, they saw corn performing in front of 100,000 crazy, uh, not the right demographic type guys. And so they immediately shifted. He's like rock and roll died because they don't need men that aid. And I buy them demographic. I mean, aggressive straight men. That's it. Like, is you got, do you ever have that? Right. And so they switched it. They switched it. And he said, I'm not saying it was the CIA, but I was there. And it happened. And they shifted it to like stuff we couldn't do. Guns and shit. They're all in videos now. R&B, all that stuff. And the Billy Corkin said that I didn't, again, observations. That's interesting, too, because you're a guy who worked with those people sometimes, too, in your job. But you can step out and see the compartmentalization, how things could go very wrong in a place like that. Well, uh, yeah, you can. And we, I mean, we stamp ease. And, uh, panic is contagious. That's what gets people killed. Toilet paper is a prime example of panic being contagious during COVID. Remember, it disappeared. Oh, yeah. You know why it disappeared? It's people bought the shit out of it. Why do they do that, though? Because they saw one guy. Fuck and do it. He bought it all. And then they figured it's going to run out. I better buy it. Toilet paper, get a load of this is not a survival necessity. It's nice. That's it. You don't need it. You can clean yourself in a lake. But someone bought it all in some asshole. So he ran to another store. He bought it all. She saw it. They bought it all. We're all we panic. It's contagious. But, you know what else is contagious? Try this. If you can realize nobody knows how you're feeling, not adrenaline, calm is contagious. It's fuck. I agree. If you can become or portray calm, it actually calms people around you down. And that 100%. It's all it's all the it's all inverted to shit. That's all the sickle shit. But I mean, again, I give myself my own advice is I'm screaming in traffic. It's gone the fuck down. Well, that's the thing. Like the vibes you give off then. Yeah, it does. Well, that's the I think I was talking about too with when you do that 2014. I've done it three times. I've done it every year. The first one was the first. The first one was. Oh, no, that would have been 2023. Oh, so it's recent. Yeah, I just started 23. Yeah, I've done it three times. I've done DMT 15 times. What was I want to do it? I was getting demonic with alcohol. I was getting bad. Never physical, but I was really just a bad person. I was evil and mean. And I was just taking it out of people and I had to stop drinking and it helped me. And then it also helped me quit smoking and quit dipping tobacco, which I didn't even intend to. Wow. It just got in my mind. And I watched two people in one of my sessions. The first session I went to I didn't want anyone to know I went. So I went to one of their sober houses. And I was with a couple that were both addicted to heroin. Like bad. And I watched him get cured overnight. Well, like one of the women was pissed because she said I didn't have any visions. And he said, yeah, but do you want heroin? She goes, no. He's like, he's dope sick. She goes, no, that's real. worked. So she's got 12 hours of sleep. But it works. It opens your mind and then you can reschedule everything. It really makes you the only issue is I've done it three times and then five MEO DMT a couple times. I have the 30,000 foot view of life. Like it just seems easier to see what's right and what's wrong. Like that's wrong. And that's right. You can always tell that too with, you can tell when someone's telling you the truth because they tell you the truth and they stop. Like when you're done saying what you're saying is to stop saying you don't fix when you have to explain everything. And that's you can use this for depression or anxiety. You can tell your anxiety because it will come to you in a question mark. And then the and the truth comes in a period. So it's like, oh my gosh, should I be afraid? No. Oh, okay. I got to work on that myself. Oh, don't tell me. I don't have it crazy. I don't have it. I tell myself that my thing is retell yourself that same shit because you're acting like an asshole. Yeah. And you're sober. So there's no excuses. My excuse now is I'm 50. You go to the gym. No, I did. I'm fucking 50. Well, that's my one excuse. You still probably outperform half the fucking 25 year olds and still go to the gym. Never stop going. That's right. I just like to. But so you got to a point like you described it as like it was like demonic with you being. Yeah, with the alcohol. Well, because what do you think got you to that point? Uh, for a lot of veteran myself included post-traumatic stress doesn't happen right away. It's about seven years. And then you start to think about it in different ways. And it's not the, the oh my god, I almost died is not scary. And it's not scary to get shot at. It's not scary to blow up. That's fucking easy. It happens really quick. Um, it's scary when it gets in your mind when you start thinking, what if I did something different? And there's one guy I think about every single day. I can't help, but I still think about it. And he was a bad guy. He, he, well, I mean, I just killed his buddy in the, in the foyer, this big old house. I blast him went to another. There's an open door. I just, I'm going to go in there. One man entry shouldn't do that. I'm going to do it. I went into a room and there's a, like, there's, as you walk in the room, the bed's off to my right. And there's a woman and a man in the bed. And I get to the foot of the bed. And the guy sort of wakes up. He hurt me. Shoot, but it's suppressed. He wakes up. And I'm kind of look, I have a white light light in me. And he, he throws a kick. And I'm like, ah, you know, I just woke you up two in the morning dog. Just chill out. And I go one more. And the guy gets up. He's kicking again. Another guy comes in with me. And he's sort of kicking. I'm like, yeah, he just, we're giving him a second. And I look over to an AK right there. And I look at the guy and I go, come on, dude, just don't come on. You're, and he went for it. I blast him. Kill them. And then I did white light in the wife season. She just went to bed with him a couple hours ago. He's dead. And whatever. But then seven years later, it's like, you know what? You think about it. And it's like, okay, I told him not to go for the gun. But why did he go for that gun? Well, he went for the gun because I'm in his room with his wife at two in the morning. Well, why am I in his room? Oh, because we decided to invent Iraq in 2003, even though I had nothing to do with 9/11 because George Bush was pissed about some. Then you start to wonder, what if I met him just somewhere else? Like, he's a bad guy, but I've had lunch with the Taliban. And I've eaten out the same bowl of rice. And they handed me a cold, cold, cold, cold. I was more amazed. They had a cold coke in a cave. But it's like, so you can be, you can meet with these people. But then I'm like, what if I met him like in Paris at a coffee shop? And would he have told me a joke? But everything that ever mattered at this dude has gone, because I decided to shoot him. Did I need that? Anyway, we start to wonder, then, okay, I'm going to drink because I don't want to think about fucking him. Then you'd have a couple of drinks. You'd go out with the boys rage black out next day. You wake up. You're like, boy, that's, you know what? What would help is a bloody Mary or five? And it's drink. I'll fuck it. I wake up the next day and it's just cycling in your piss. Don't tell me I drink too much angry. And then you have to realize like, okay, I need help now. And a lot of my buddies from six had quit drinking. I'd see him. And I would ask them, and then they, no one told me I've again. I don't know why. And then finally, someone said, you should do I've again. I did. And it took three times. But it's not. I have it. Look at that tattoo. I got speaking on the short term goals. That's my first sober day. Seven, 18, 25 on my drinking hand. So I have to look at it. But like, I was like, I got done. I'm like, that's it. It doesn't make sense to me anymore. That's I begin. It's not like, it's bad for me. And I love to see people enjoy themselves with some good wine or a really good scotch. Just doesn't make sense to me. Yeah. It's like, you knew what it did to you. And now it's like, it's kind of cool. I can say that I, you know, I lived half of my life drunk and now I live half sober. And we'll see how that goes. Yeah, that's a why to your point though. That's a while after like, you were clearly dealing with that for a bit because it's a while after your career, actively in the militaries over. And well, because now you're in the private sector. Yeah. And people get offended if you make an off-color joke about the floor of an apartment building. Yeah, these were the wrong years too. Oh, yeah. Tough years for you. I mean, I, I remember talking to Dakota about Dakota Meyer, the metal lower recipient of marine. His story's insane. And he, he killed a guy with a rock. And he said, there's a moment in time where we're looking at each other. And we both know what's about to happen. Like, what the fuck is that? That's gladiator shit. Yeah. And then, and then, oh, by the way, don't freak out at the PTA meeting because the chairmen is a retard. He's really good at violence. Yeah, I think about this a lot though, because I, I think it's the heaviest thing ever. And I could not even imagine it, right? Like the idea that it's like you or someone else and, and you're in like an active war zone with these situations you're talking about. It's the highest thing. Well, and he got a figure too at the time. It's almost a competition who got, who got to how many? Did you get more than the sniper today? Because we had, well, I had an ongoing joke with the snipers. Did you get a choice at a certain point in Steel Team 6, like I'm going to stay as an assaulter or I'm going to record snipers. And I was a sniper, boom, everyone was, but I want to stay an assaulter and some of my buddies went on the other guy's rescue Richard Phillips. That's pretty cool. And they said, why wouldn't you go to snipers? I say, I got a feeling snipers are going to kill more people, but we're going to kill more famous people. And I'm just joking. I keep it on the bin laundry. We're joking about who's going to get him. Like, you're going to get him outside with the machine gun because I'm going to get to the third floor. He's going to pop one of those emergency exits from a plane. This yellow airplane movie shits. He's going to slide right down in front of your side. You're going to blast him. That's how this is going down. Jesus Christ. Oh my God. It is, I do have to say like, like, you're flat, you're dude, you're flying with a lacrosse team. That's what you're, like, just, these are the best people on in the world. And I'm going to die with them. Like the fact that you guys had, this is what always blows my mind. The fact that you guys had it planned so well though, that you had literally planned for one of the helicopters to be completely fucked. Yeah, but we only planned half or 30 seconds. That was a fact that you still had that planned and then it worked. You did that. We're standing around the table and we're all exhausted and the boss just goes, all right, what's the worst thing that could happen? And one of the dudes just goes, well, the helicopter crashed the front yard. I'm like, we just want to go to bed. We're like, what the fuck, man? And he's like, and literally he's like, uh, maybe we should talk about that for 30 seconds. And we did. And that's exactly what happened. I didn't even know the fucking thing crashed. I was outside. Um, I was supposed to go to the roof. You could in here. No, I heard dash one going around. Um, so this is on the, so they're going to faster up in front of his house. We're going to drop snipers off. And then I'm going to the roof of the team. And uh, so we dropped them. We lift up and then the pilot just goes back down outside of the 20 foot wall and says, get out. So we did. And I just, I had a bottle of piss in my, I forgot to take, I did the whole mission with a bottle of piss in my pocket. So I stepped out. I'm, I remember thinking, I'm not going to the roof, but I fuck it. I'll start the war from here. But that's why preparation, not planning. And um, off to my left hand side, there's a double door on the northeast corner. We'll just go blast that. So we went over there and uh, the, the breacher came up and he decided to use a seven foot charge of C6, which is a fucking master key. I was getting you in anywhere. So he put it down and like C6 is just two more fucking awesome for the C4. I don't know it's magic. So he backs off and blows it and it's a, it's a brick wall again. Like it's a, the door opens brick wall. And we're just fortunate that we're experienced because this is just, okay, it's a hiccup. And we, he goes fail breach. This is, fuck, this is bad. And I go, no, this is good, man. This is good. That's a fake door. And no one does that. Yep. He's in there. All right. So we're going to go that way. So we're going to cross this. We're still outside. Like there's this fucking house. We, we know the car poor opens. So we're going to go blast that. And we heard dash one going around. So they're, they took fire trying to fastroll. So they're just re-attacking. So I'm going to give him a courtesy. We're going to blast. This is so and so. We're going to blast the car port. And they said, no, no, no, no, don't, don't, don't blast it. We'll open it and it opened and the thumbs up came out. And I recognize the glove. One of ours. Yeah. And I'm at a point in life now, seriously, and try this. It does, a, it doesn't matter why I'm here. I'm just here. No shit. I'm just here now. When I talk to NFL teams, the offense, I'll say it doesn't ever matter why it's second and 15 because it just is. And what we all have in common is not who miss the assignment is that clock. That's ticking. What are you going to do about it? So we just go in. I did. They're obviously the flight crew from the first bird standing there. They have American flags, but different camis. I'm so out of it with how I actually asked them, who the fuck are you guys? As I'm going into Binlon's house, it doesn't register that they crashed. And then I get in the house in the hallway in the right side room. And then the guys are clearing and just get out of the hallway. If you're getting shot at ever, just get a hallway. So I'm in there. And there's a dude from the first bird. And there's two, the two dead guys are the dead guy that a woman right there. And I'm watching my guys and I'm looking for thermal bearer charges because this house is going to blow off. They're good. You know, you guys have the night vision on, but how much, you know, for people out there who've never worn night vision, like, how much can you really see? Well, for us at first with night vision, you're going to lose a little depth perception. But we're doing nighttime high altitude high opening skydives on the cliffs in Arizona with night vision. Like we can see we're good. You get used to it. It's like anything else. And then, you know, we would train everything with it. So you're we're good. And even dudes had the quad nods. It just came out. So you got the four cylinders. I used the two because I'd been using those forever. I'm like, I'm not going to try out new nods on this fucking mission. Have them on backwards. Yeah. Some guys did, man. They were the new shit. I didn't. But I get the thing and he's discussing, uh, uh, he said helicopter crash. And I said, oh my god, what what helicopter crashed? Because I thought the 47s that aren't stealth cut shot down now, because it's. that right about now they should be coming in and he goes bro like our helicopter crash like I think you want to try pass the plane. And so I had to get clever with them like well I was looking that way because that's been Laudan's house. I don't fucking know dude. So I'm like then it's registered. Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course. Of course. That's why. Okay. Those are the pilots. It makes sense. You know, all this was in the blink of an eye and then but then the sniper from our bird is running around the entire compound and his job is he's got Cairo and cheese and their job is to make sure no one escapes like we're going to run him down with Cairo and he didn't know they crash. Yeah. And he get he uh he didn't know they crashed but he got he's outside and he saw the the the pilot had done as he pinned it. So he stuck the tail on the uh we had the four best pilots in the world on this. So he stuck it and put the tail or the tail on the fence and the nose and the dirt because he said an inexperienced pilot when he couldn't hold the updraft would have powered up and killed everyone but he knew if he he might be able to do this like literally that's all non-slime. So he stuck it. The sniper is out there with Cairo and cheese and he looks up and he didn't know they crashed. So what registered to him was hey guys inside be on alert because they're ready for us. They've got a training mockup of our super secret helicopter in the front yard. And the ground force commander after an aquapod says no jackass that's ours because we crashed. And the sniper goes yeah that makes a lot more sense than the shit I was just saying. And that's when it registered. Oh yeah they crashed. So now we're in the room and then I love the human element of everything though because we talked about corruption we talked about money but we also talk about relationships like I know these dudes really fucking well. So I'm looking down and we know we can tell who we are. I've had my life saved before by a sniper in Afghanistan. I remember he knew who I was. You could tell from a distance in the dark who I was by the way that I walked like we really know each other. So I'm looking down this hallway this dude six three and he's working this door as a breacher. And what you do is a breacher you just you just escalate force. So you go up to a door see if it's unlocked it might just be unlocked they walk right in. And so that's not okay now I gotta figure it out. So it's it's barricaded where they start working okay there's no hinges so it's gonna open and I need a sledgehammer just like that okay I need some sharp prep and charges get the chainsaw fucking go all this shit. So I'm watching my buddy six three and he's working this fucking room where the woman that found bin Laden said I don't know where but there will be a stairwell and she said you'll run into Khalid bin Laden if you can ace him you get a shot at the big guy which is one of the coolest sentence I've ever heard anyone say. So he's breaching and I'm just now I got nothing to do there's no bombs I don't know why and I'm just watching but I'm thinking I know that dude man I went through training with him in the 90s just wow I I remember checking the seal team two with that dude I remember on Wednesday nights we go out to hot tune it was a bar in Virginia Beach on short drive because all the pilots from Oceana would show up the girls are all show up we're all saying go have a blast but don't drink too much because we're gonna be breaching explosive on Thursday then I remember breaching school all that shit we went through seal team six selection together I remember being in D team with him in green team the hardest training in the world going through that shit and we checked into red squadron together I remember being on the on the mountain to rescue markers the trail with him I remember doing the jump to rescue Richard Phillips with that dude now he's breaching Osama bin Laden fucking out and I'm watching holy fuck I'm so proud of that dude and I'm just thinking like all right this is so and then boom let's go and it's all quiet and this is your element yeah these are my fucking guys every time I hear you guys talk about this it's like this is a Tuesday you know it is it's a one way mission in that way but it's a Tuesday we've done this before yeah and again we've done this a hundred thousand times we I've shot this type of weapon a million times I know where it goes I know what works and now we're on a stairwell and Khalid was there and he jumped behind a spanner and he's armed yeah I think at a 74 and my who smoked him the one of the two point men on the stairs the I've heard a lot about the word point man because I was led up the last set of stairs by a point man but when people fail to realize there's not a point man and then we just hot hot hot behind him seal team six close quarters battle if I sat here and explained it for five hours people wouldn't understand it is so fluid and so fast when we eventually got into bin Laden's room I was in a two-man train the three man up was a point man of a second train like that's the dynamics of all the same we got to a point where like we have to simplify the rules because it's so fast one of our rules was no shit don't shoot someone who looks like you everything else fuck it I don't care you pointed me slow down give a fuck don't shoot me so we're on the stairwell and I should take guys out because I'm eight guys back and I don't have a shot and if you're fighting up in an urban environment they might throw stuff down so I should grab some dudes let two maybe three guys handle this but this is it I got to see what happens man I can't miss this this is historic and we're really quiet we're very good at that we learned it we're silent we don't say shit because you don't you don't know where we are and we're we're we're slow but we're really fucking fast and are very accurate with our shots because we know that our eyes are faster than our bullets and she like that anything we're shooting is worth reaching so I shoot it's not two to the chest one of the head it's two to the fucking head so they're on this thing and he whispered to him Khalid and he said something like Delta Rasha or something he said come here or something in Arabic or Pashtun and then Urdu or something that he knew Khalid's name and what to say and he just looked over what that's a coldest fucking thing the coolest thing I've ever seen and we step over him get to the next train and the the it was one of the two guys that I I could recognize and then another guy took point going up the third he took some shots before I got there so he'd take some shots and guys go to the left and right and now you know so now they're clearing these two spots and you don't want to go to another level until you had this level clear just avoids and we only have 23 dudes told Steve can we pull up just like a geometric re rendering of the compound to just we have that like while you're explaining this if sometimes we have a reference something but that makes sense so guys what you would have like I'm just making up numbers but maybe two guys going to this room two guys going that room and now you have two or three guys two or three three this way and then there's down to two of us and the thing I'm thinking about I maybe this is a bad visual but if you ever stand and watch like a bunch of ants make their fucking kingdom you'll see all them like in a line like going towards something then suddenly like a bunch will peel off like this or like that and then they'll be building something over here or something over there I don't know maybe I'm fucked up I just watched this man as a kid but like that's kind of like well I'm just trying to get because they're like right in their spot you know yeah I mean I don't want to get too deep into tactics but wherever wherever your body's pointing discover the opposite and that's you can you can get and slow the fuck down yeah that's like you're looking at yeah that's his house yeah so that's the front door right there with a satellite dish so that's like a garden and then the front doors below that and so we end up so the if you look at the main house the the windows on the left there one of my guys shot through that and killed I think a bra and then his wife or Kuwaitia no no so how many total guys were on this again in each chopper we had 23 total 23 so we had yeah a couple each garden pilots they weren't part of the 23 and it was a 32 minutes land and then we was 32 but we were on there I think we held for 47 because we found so much stuff okay how long until he was killed probably 11 minutes 11 minutes I think anyway this is not like two minutes you know no no because we had that problem and and our guys like that's navy cross shit that the that my buddy reaching that door should have got a navy cross right at least and then the guy in front of me should still get them a long right for going because we went up the last set of steps uh he was right in front of me there was a curtain and the reason we went up is because he could see people moving and he assumed like what he was sort of saying he didn't know as me but he knew as one of his guys and he sort of pimped and like we got to go and he's talking like when we don't talking and he was sort of saying in not so many words those are the suicide bombers we can beat him but we have to go right now and it sucks but we got to go and I remember and I remember looking down and I can see my shoes again I was running low just I still have and I remember not bravery but we're gonna blow up now I'm tired of thinking about it and we just went and so we went up and so he immediately jumped on the two women that he thought were suicide bombers and when we got back standing over Binlon's body Adam and McCraven this guy's name's still not out but he was a point man in that room he said you jumped on two suicide bombers why and he said without knowing it was me he said I didn't want the guy behind me to die like that's all that was his thought process I got this like and because he did that I just turned right there's Binlon standing there and did you think that because the whole issue here is like people argue about the after-action report yeah so at the time because you guys would go do a mission do an after-action report it's like two seconds it's whatever this is just standard because that's what you did for living this one's different because it's like you killed fucking Binlon yeah but at the time were you worried that the point man was gonna get blamed for not shooting him first even though like he did something extremely brave no no he I didn't know no I just he didn't do anything wrong he right no he just I mean it's it's hard to I don't know where the controversy is I'm I don't like to tell other people stories I like to I can tell you what I saw and what I did and I mean what he did was I'm still advocating for a mill of honor for that guy yeah I mean it's just I mean once it's all over then people get in there and it might get confusing or what like I said because when I moved a mall bin Laden because after I shot bin Laden three times I moved him like I looked down at his two-year-old son who's saying and thought as a father this kid's got nothing to do with this what the fuck type moment like what are we doing yeah so I moved them and came back and then that's when other guys are in there and there were the shots fire and I have to walk over I have to get a picture bin Laden because our saying is if you kill him you own him so I got to go get a picture and as I was walking over I actually got stopped by one of the guys because I guess I was moving slower and he goes hey are you good I said what do we do now any laugh he goes now we find the computers man you do this every night hundreds of times you've done this all right and I go yeah yeah you're right holy shit and he goes yeah you just killed a son bin Laden your life just changed nobody fucking cares get to work like all right you're welcome - Did it, did you process it? - Sort of, because, well, what I processed then was, that's it, this is the last room, that's like the boss. We can live now, fuck, let's live now, holy shit. If we can live, I get to see my kids again. So that's what that thing, all right, let's hustle this up. We gotta get them in a body back, I went to the second floor, we gotta find computers, we did, there was, when I went in the first floor on the first room on the second floor, so we entered Bidon's thing, but I went back down to this one. I pulled this huge sea bag from under a bed and opened it, and I thought they were vacuum sealed ribeye steaks, and I'm looking at it like, man, they're in it, for the long haul, but it's like, oh, this is raw opium. Like, they're funding al Qaeda from here. And then you start to find, it's like, okay, break that computer, pull out the hard drive. Holy shit, take that, take this, you're going like, like, floppy disk, from like, weird science. Like, holy shit, get it all, it's over-gathering shit. And then you gotta keep, it's like the whole, pull back a little bit, how much time, all right, start rounding it up, we gotta blow up that bird, we gotta call in another one, we gotta get on that fucking thing, let's go. And like, literally walking around, hey, we're leaving, and they're like, well, these women, like, fucking tell 'em if they go outside, we have a plane ride about there, just lie to 'em, dude. And then we did, so we gave the body to the first team, they got on our bird, then we called in Chinook, and it came in, and that's when that dude was out there tweeting, and they land, and then, you know, - I didn't realize he was that close. I think I've heard you talk about the dude out there, I don't know, that was the same guy I was thinking of. I thought it was a little farther away. - Well, this guy was right there, so I'm assuming it's him, and I follow him on Twitter, I think he follows me. Fucking, you gotta do to get a fall from Pakistan. - The guy was fucking like, the Mike Turekov, like, the raid, like, every, you know? - Yeah, he was doing, he was live tweeting, and he was like, hash tagging, like, Islamabad. - That's him, like, oh my God. I bought a bed. - Yeah, yeah, I bought a bed. - But then we let, well, that was a weird part too, if we had a 90-minute flight hours. - Yeah. - And we know they're gonna shoot us down now, 'cause they have F-16s, we sold them. - And you were counting, right? - Well, if you're worried about something that's not gonna help, you're just wasting your energy, so I just started my watch, and I got to live for 90 minutes, then I get 50 years. That's what I was thinking. If I can live for 90 minutes, I get to see my kids, man. - Was it one of the way, in there, or the way out, that you were counting one missing son? - That was on the way in, to keep my mind off of getting shot down, because-- - I watched, so I watched that. - That's what I remember, the saying I was counting, like, 80 minutes out, when we back to the South, then I was like, 556, 557. Freedom itself was attacked this morning by a face that's coward and freedom will be defended. And I couldn't remember why, how I remember that, but I'm like, I'm not counting. Like, I'm being inspired, and then it hit me, like, I'm getting goosebumps right now. I'm like, hold the shit, this is the team, I'm on it. We're gonna fucking kill him. Like, it really hit me then. And then, this guy, the air crew guy, his job, he's a crew chief, his job is to keep the bird flying and open the fucking door for us. That's his job. How important is that that he reached over and opened the door? If that would have taken a six seconds to figure out on the deck, who knows, with six seconds, but he did. Even with him, I'm like, his family would miss him just as much if we could hit up the ass with a missile. And no one talks about what a hero this guy, he opened the door, then I look out and my next thought is, oh, this is some serious Navy SEALs shit we're about to do. And that was like the last clear thought. And then all hell fucking goes out the window. But yeah, the air crew guy, the pilots and all that shit. And then, so we call that other bird. And now there's more pilots. And these guys flew in a school bus with SEAL team six operators on it. Like, this thing is gonna get shot down. And we're gonna get followed by F-16s that we sold them. So we get on a bird and I'm sitting next to this night for the rescue Richard Phil, which is badass. And he had been getting shit. When you do something at that level, at that level, rescue Richard Phil, you're the guy that gets him. You just, people get a little professional jealousy. So they were giving him shit at the command about, you smelled like booze when he came back. It's like, whatever. But I would always give him my dip. And I would say, hey, you're a hero. Don't listen to those fucking guys take my dip. I always say this to him at the command, always. And then we're flying out on the bin Laden raid. And I can't fucking believe what just happened. I might live in this can of dip came in front of my night vision. It's him right next to me. And he yelled, hey, Nizro, now you know what it's like to be a fucking hero. I'm like, dude, I can't write this. Like the guy that rescued Richard Phil, it just gave me a can of dip. It's been 20 minutes. Fuck, if I can live to 90, dude. I get to see my, it's been 30 minutes. You can't fucking believe. You can hear the hell out of 40 minutes, 50 minutes. I started thinking about a no hitter at Yankee Stadium right about 60 minutes, like top of the seventh, no hitter. I'm fucking not going to say anything. I don't want to jinx this. It's been 70, 80 minutes. I remember I can, I could hear Al Michaels voice in my head right around the 80 minute mark because he was commentating for the Winter Olympics in 1980 at Lake Placid. And you got those Americans, man, they're, they had a couple of specials. These kids had it each other, loved hockey. They hate their fucking coach. They have no business being on the ice with the greatest team ever assembled in these Russians who were just injectable steroids, seven feet tall and are beating Olympic teams by 10 fucking goals in the Olympics. And they shouldn't, but now they're winning. It's four to three and the third. You can hear Al Michaels voice. I'm 85 minutes into a 90 minute flight. Five seconds left. Do you have leave of miracles? And the pilot came over the radio and that cool monotone voice that they always used to calm us down in every flight you've ever been on. He said, all right, gentlemen, for the first time in your lives, you're going to be happy to hear this welcome to Afghanistan. Just calm and it's like, can we fucking pull our dicks out or what, dude? You got his body in the back. Well, he was in the other person. So we land, they land. And then we, the point man was on the other bird. I really want to talk to him 'cause we run the stairs together. So we go into corner like, what the fuck happened? His biggest bitch at that time was where was everyone? And I'm like, dude, we had 23 guys. Like we're down to us. That's end. And then he's pissed off for whatever he looks over and goes, oh, there she is, man, you got to give her something. You own this. Shot him and there's a woman that found in line. So I was like, okay, let's go over there. So we walk over. Bin Laden's body is over here. And other seals are looking at him. And I pulled the magazine out in the last round and I said, hey, do you have room for this in your backpack? And she said, yeah, I think so. And I said, well, we have something to show you. And as we're walking her over to Bin Laden's body, it starts to sink in 'cause we're so close to the fire. We've done catfills, we didn't want survivor. Like we don't realize the true. But now it's like, okay, this is gonna be in the books. - Had you really had a chance in the room in the moment to like look down to the night vision and grasp that that was his body there? - Yeah, if they ever release the pictures from the target, those are my gloves holding his head together. And I actually just gave that left-hand glove to Connor McGregor because he, we're a business partner now, it's like, you put people down. He's the left I did with my right. So I was just, but those gloves are in the picture. Except I won't get a rematch, my fight's over. But we walk her over. And in the movie, like she cried and it was emotional and they left her alone. It was something, the way I remember it and she might have a different story is, we walk over and I was realizing the only reason we're here is because of her. Her sacrifice, no kids, no husband, seven days a week, 20 hours a day, she was working everywhere to find him. And then I put pressure on myself and like, "Shit, I gotta think of something cool to say. "This is the one time, think of something cool." And I pointed down and just said, "Is that your guy?" And she looked down for a second, her life's work and hit someone on the back and goes, "I guess I'm out of a fucking job and left." She left, got on her own plane and fucking left. - What is that? - Just like that, yeah, that's him, I'm out. Good job, fuck 'em. How cool is that shit? Yeah. - That's a pretty fucking guy. - That's like the coolest story I have. And it's not even mine. - Wow. - Now you, I love, we've been going out of order. I love podcasts like this. - Yeah. - Going all over, like they're my favorite. But when you-- - I didn't know we were recording. - Yeah, you were never recording it to me and that's the best. But when you, they found him allegedly, they felt like they had the compound. If I remember correctly, like late the summer before-- - Yeah, well, they found him for a couple of years. - But then they had like more confirmation. - I think that they told, maybe, JSOC about it. They told JSOC before the president, I think. And then they started briefing him up. And I remember that in particular because we finished a deployment in Afghanistan. I was running all the outstations out of this month, January, February of 2011. I was actually working on the same base where the bin Laden team was. And that's how good this team was. I didn't even know they were there. I was at a point in my career in February of '11. I was fucking with terrorists. I was interrogating on target just because it's bin Laden. Like I literally be like, okay, how many men are in the house? What are their names? Who's the man in the house? Where's the sun bin Laden? And I would see guys break under the turplich. I'm like, I know, no one knows. Like, fucking with guys. No one knows. And so I'm working with the CA team without knowing it. And then we go back and then we had a-- I was running a dive ship to South Beach, which is a good deal after deployment. Like you get a dive or working on mother ships for the small pirate bullshit. We're in South Beach, we're going out of night. So it's awesome. And the only bad thing about that trip was the commanding officer and the command master chief are coming with us. It's like, well, fuck. Then like three days before they got to go to DC, they can't come, so we're excited. Not realizing they had to go to DC. Final stamp, then they're going to tell about five of you, mother fuckers, trips over. You're going to war. And that was what happened. Then we got recalled. And that was just a cool recall because it started off with, this is not a drill. This is real. We have a sound. They said, we found a thing, a thing. And this thing is in a house. And this house is in a bowl. And these mountains, and these mountains are in a country. And you're going to go get this thing, and you're going to bring it to us and show it to us. And we're like, sweet, what's the thing? Well, we can't tell you, okay. Well, what mountain range can't tell you? What country can't tell you? How are we getting there? Can't tell you how much air support? None. Okay, there's an answer. That's all we do at first. And then, you know, we were even getting our, this is actually a hilarious story. We assumed it was Gaddafi in Libya. This is 2020 to 2011. So Arab Spring just don't yeah. Okay, then and they don't want to tell us because we're flying on flat tops in Osprey's and they have a bad track record, that's what it is. And then they said one more thing, you're not bringing any Air Force guys and there are our CCTVs and our PJs. Basically the CCTV guys call all the aircraft of the most dangerous man on the battlefield and the PJs are both shooters, they're surgeons, but you're not bringing any 'cause we're just taking us. So if you used to carry a medshit, get your shit ready. So like we'd be down in our cages and I remember a dude from Gold Team came up to me and goes, hey, this super secret mission man, what is it? I'm like, I don't know. And he goes, come on, come on dog, you can tell me. And so they thought we were being cocky and we legit don't know. And we're getting our shit ready and on a Friday in Virginia Beach, they said, okay, go home now and be with your kids. Come back, be here at 05 on Sunday. We're driving to a spot. We're gonna read you in on what's happening. We're like, okay, well, and then fly you out. No, they're gonna read us in. We don't even know what the mission is yet. We think it's Kadoff here. I'm like, okay, well, who are we in April now? We're in April and we're just, we'd been, we'd been read in, sort of, not really. Now on Sunday, we're gonna drive down to a read in and we're like, who's gonna be at the read in? They said, the Vice President and Secretary, Defense Secretary, the Nate, you're like, what the fuck? And they're going down this list. But one of the, see, we still think we're going to Libya and then they said, CTC Patel be there, blah, blah, blah. They're going down the list. And I'm like, yeah, counter-terror, CA, Pakistan, Afghanistan, I didn't say anything. Like, if we're going to Libya, I'm gonna go home with it. I didn't say anything, right? So we go home, I came back Sunday morning. This is great story. And we're driving down. They split us up four dudes per van. My boss is sitting next to me. Two guys are up front and I explain that to them. CTC Pat, this is not Kadoffi. This has been a lot. - You said that. - And my boss looked at me and he goes, that is exactly what I was thinking. So we're just having a conversation. And the guy driving, I'll never forget, looked at me and my nickname was Nizro, Navy CEO Rob O'Neal, NSRO. He looked at me and then he goes, man, Nizro, if we kill Osama bin Laden, I will suck yo' dick, just like that. And that was funny as shit we laughed. Three weeks to the day, we were standing over him. And I looked at him and go, hey, homie. Now's a good time, is that it? And he forgotten, he goes, fuck you dude. I'm like dude, we got 32 minutes on target. But then we get to the spot, that was just a funny moment. And then we get to the spot and there's an arm guard, like a half a pot of coffee and six donuts and they locked the door and the commanding officer, shield team six with the bin Laden lady. And they said, all right, the reason you guys are here, this is as close as we've ever been to Osama bin Laden. - And then it sinks. - And then we're just, okay. And but it was cool being with these shooters was, no one was excited. Like, sweet, we going home now. Like, we're going now, like, I gotta grab my gun. Like, no, we have to train. It's like, now we fucking don't. They wanted to see us trained. So they, 'cause we were one of five options. - Do you know who the other options were? - Yeah, it was us alone, us with the Pakistanis, which we laughed right out of the room, like, yeah, tell them. And then it was two, three types of bombings. One of them was the Air Force recommended 22 of those J-Dams and you're not going to know what happened to anyone. - Yeah, no one will do that. - Yeah, like a bottle of ads gone. And it's a resort town, bad news. And then like, there was a hammer throw, which is, we know the Pacers in there, which is Chuck Wayne, like you're going to miss. I've seen guys get fucking blown up and they lost a hat. - Right. - Yeah, so, and then, and President Obama was pretty cool. The word we got, he told us later when we met him was, I was never 100% convinced Ben Laden was there, but after seeing you, I was convinced you could go in, find out, and come back. Which is pretty, I mean, that's all we ask, fuck it. Give us some latitude and we'll do it. Yeah, I mean, dude, at both sides, they all were fucking tits on that one. - Was it at that meeting where they actually told you the country and the detail and read you in on what the, on what the company-- - Yeah, they were reading us into a point where, like, she was explaining exactly how she found him, to a point where it's like, enough. - That's also an amazing story, though, like how it all came, because they had, you know, I've had Shawnee Delaney in here who didn't even know at the time that part of her intelligence went into this, 'cause they had like a sale, no-- - They compartmentalized it so well. - Were you saying everything into the sale. - Yeah. - And then I guess this lady was the organizer of it. - Yeah, she was, and I tell people too, when I give presentations, as far as running a high performance team, that if anyone says it's a need to know basis and you don't need to know, it's just trying to sound cool. Make sure your team knows what they're doing and why. It's something that high tech and advance that intel, the way they compartmentalize it into a sale world, legit, everyone doesn't need to fucking know. That's the way to do it, that's what we found. I mean, that's why presidents don't know about NASA. That's why presidents don't know shit, because they're a fucking visitor. - Right. - Maybe eight years are gone. - They'll be here, the people there or there before they got there, they're gonna be there after they leave. That's just the way it works. - 100%. - I mean, with Chuck Schumer is on video saying, you mess with these intel folks, six weeks from Sunday, and he's not lying, 'cause he's been in there. He's been in the center for 800 years. He knows what's going on. - He knows how to play the game? - Doesn't play the game, doesn't know what's going on. He can't even make a fucking cheeseburger. (laughs) - It's supposed to bear a thing. - That was pretty sad. - Are you shitting me right now? - No, that's an example of that. - Here's a politician trying to be an every man. You think he kids a fuck about your overtime? Can't make a cheeseburger. - Can't make a cheeseburger. - This was an upsetting. Was there a video of it or was it just this? - I think it was just a picture. - It was just the still, which means he stood in there first. - He posed for that. (laughs) I mean, let's say like it raw, which is fun. Maybe he's just a pant, man. - Oh, man, that's so bad. - So that's what, when you get read in, that's what, like, two, three weeks before the match? - Yeah, about three weeks. So we stayed there in North Carolina. They built a site, and so we worked on that site every night, and then someone had a model. We just, they were good to give us the tactical authority to come up with the plan on the ground, which you should. And then, like, even pie this on that shit. If we get Ractor on the ground, I got this. And so they let us come up with the plan. We came up with the plan. We briefed it a bunch of times. I mean, we rehearsed way too much though. Way too much. - If anything, you're gonna get complacent with that much rehearsal. You just-- - Why do you say that? - 'Cause you're gonna, okay, there's definitely a right-hand term when we go in the house over there. Isn't there's a left-hand term? What are you doing? No. I mean, hey, there's gonna be five men and 10 women and 30 chill, don't fucking, there's 45 people. I'll figure it out. Don't you tell me what you know? 'Cause you don't fucking know it. And it just rehearsed, rehearsed, rehearsed. Like, I remember I was getting 10 and I was so bad in my forearms from fast-roping. It's like, I can assume I know how to fast-rope. I don't need to do it 15 times a day from 90 feet. I just, I can just do it. - Did you, when you're going through all the practice though, they still have the five options on the table. I thought they had eliminated some of the bombings by then, but they definitely weren't gonna work with Pakistan by then. But did you think, when they actually told you, we're gonna do it, which I guess was a couple of days before, before that moment, were you like, pretty sure this was definitely gonna happen? Or were you still-- - They gave us the green light. I think on a Thursday night, and we left Sunday. On Thursday, I think they gave us a green light for Saturday and Sunday, 'cause I do remember watching part of the NFL draft. I was a Redskins fan until political correctness killed my favorite team and part of my childhood. But I was watching, I was on the treadmill. I wasn't working out too hard, but we were working out, stretching jujitsu a little bit, just to keep light. I was walking on a treadmill, watching the draft, like, okay, they're gonna pick an old lineman, 'cause I remember stopping thinking, I'm gonna be dead in a week, like it doesn't fucking matter. Like that was the mindset, like this is just-- - So when you're doing, like from that very, this is what I was really trying to also hammer down earlier, from that very first meeting, when you first hear about what this is and where it is and who it is, is that when you had the thought, like, "Oh, we're not coming back from this." - No, we had to think how we're gonna get in there. We know about it as this many miles in, so what are you gonna do? And we were looking at free-fall options. We're looking at offsets, shit, I don't wanna get into some stuff that we were thinking. Just to do it in one cycle of darkness is, we had to land on the X. We had to fast forward in front of his house. - And then you're like, all right, this is-- - That part there, it's like, well, that means we have to fucking fly in there, and they are not a third world country. So, I mean, they have first world defenses. We, and we don't know when, we took us till Venezuela to prove that those suck. - And this was, this was also, like, three-quarter miles or something, from the fucking West Point. - Yeah, their West Point was a mile, but they're not a problem. Like, if our West Point gets invaded, it's not the cadets that are coming to this local police. That's why-- - It's just funny that that was something right there, too. - Yeah, I mean, they got nuclear shit right there, too, and that's like one of our concerns. Like, we're gonna fly over the shit 'cause if we're invading their nuclear shit, what does that mean? - Yeah, oh my God. - Yeah, it's a lot, I mean, that, again, that's big people problem. I don't need, I got a sledgehammer and a gun. I'm going in that door, or fuck you. You can worry about nuclear proliferation when I'm not here. - Now, didn't they also have to do something where they put you guys, like, on loan, or something, or I don't know what the tournament is to see-- - Yeah, if you look at Title 10, Title 50. - So, what does that mean? - I think Title 50, I might have them back, which has been a couple of years, but Title 50, Title 10 is you're working for the government. Title 50 is a, I'm sorry. One's military, one's the government, so it's the whole plausible deniability types. So, we were working for the agency. - Because if you had been on the military officially, it could have been viewed as an act before this organization. - Yeah, yeah. We got a lot more work under Democrats than we did under Republicans. - Why do you think that is? - I have a joke about it. Republicans like to put stuff on the horizon, like, carriers and tanks. And if you keep doing this, we will do this. But Democrats will stab you in the fucking back, and that's where we come in. That's what I think it's actually. - Who's the fucking, I remember laughing my ass off. You were talking about this with Sean Ryan, but you were like, I would never vote for Hillary Clinton. - I would take the fossil. - Yeah, well, if we are, if I was in a fossil, and it wasn't America on the line, but it was her personal power line, I will fight back-to-back with Hillary Clinton and I will fucking win. - What was it, she called everyone like a pussy 'cause they didn't wanna go in, sorry. - Yeah, she, yeah, that was her, because it was the Correspondence Center. She called and put, fuck those reporters. Go kill them. Go, go. She was the reason too, that we got the, the, um, Captain Phillips rescue because the Obama administration been in office for two, three months, April of 2009. Yeah. Yeah. So she said, if we got guys down, cause we were fucking around with them, like the Navy's pulling them and fucking helicopters or pulverin over them and blah, blah, blah. And I guess Hillary was like, dude, we got guys right down of Virginia Beach. I've met him. Like shoot him. Yeah. Oh, shit. Yeah. When we ate, shit, we, we kill enough people on that mission. She doesn't have to sacrifice anyone that day. Yeah. Yeah. We got time to go into frazzle drip. Obviously that was for entertainment purposes only. You think for entertainment purposes only that might ever hypothetically actually come out? I hope not. I am having been around the world and seen some of the most awful shit, uh, imaginable. I've also seen some of the best shit in some of the worst places. Mm hmm. So I have started following up most everything I hear with maybe. Mm hmm. When I hear some horrible shit that happened to kids because of migrants, I say maybe, maybe not because someone's got interest in firing you the fuck up. That's why you get your algorithm. You're so angry. And it's not, I'm not, I'm not, I don't mean to keep picking on Pakistanis or whatever because they're getting the algorithm towards us. And there's someone spitting. If they can keep us hating each other, the fucking bankers are fine. I think there's something to that for sure. Oh, that's for some time. What's going on? It's the old power and money. You think, why would I mean, even like voting if that mattered? They wouldn't let us do it. Right. Come on. I hate to be cynical, but I'm with you on that. I mean, look, I think about my, not, I'm not bragging, I'm fourth house, like, on mortgage, you're paying the interest the whole time. You're not paying the principal. Why is that? Yeah. It's power. You don't have a fucking choice. I mean, I, I mean, here's another rabbit hole. The TSA is in on it. The government's in on it. The TSA. Yeah. You have to throw away your water. Why? Because you got to buy more expensive water right over there. Right. And then I got to, I got to contract with him. That's it. Really? They're trained to find fucking water. You could get through with a gun. That's too much shampoo. Really? Because think about, oh, my five ounces of shampoo, not the million drones that are going to bring the plans down. Yeah. It's this racket, man. It's all racket. I think there's something to them, man. I've been, I'm 50. I'm disgruntled. It's that. No, I, I hear you. But, and also like, you've been around the world too. I keep spitting. I'm a fish and an old man. No, that's all right. You get fired up. But like, it's, I've, I've thought it for the longest time that like all the, the left and right. They all get dinner at the same steakhouse. Oh, I've seen my, my first job out of the Navy was working on Capitol Hill. What was that? I was, I, well, I initially thought that, oh, they're just different ideas. They all care about the country. And then you see behind the fucking curtain. Oh, I'm going to go make a difference. Uh-oh. No. No. No. No. Like, I was invited to Bohemian Grove three times. And I didn't go just because I didn't go. I totally would now. I don't know. I didn't know. Oh, dude. I'd love to get in there now, but no, I got, I didn't know anything about it. I'm like, yeah, I did be a cool part. I didn't know I'd be potentially a senator who invited you to Bohemian. Uh, I was invited by, uh, musicians through a Democrat senator, maybe, but I was seen more because I was new to it. I was out and there's everyone celebrating. I, I didn't know anything about that shit. But then you start to see Congressman, uh, and then their staffs and you realize that their staffs are leading around the congressman because their visitors too. Unless you're a Nancy Pelosi who's been to the whole time and then they run the entire show. And then you'll see stuff with the primaries. Eric Swahl was a prime example to you. What happens in these places is you get the young, good looking freshman and then you take him to the parties. I've been to these parties. The Bohemian Grove would have been one of them, but then all of a sudden the drinks come out. The drugs come out. The girls come out. The cameras are out. Oh, look, you were doing on camera. We got, oh, hey, you're going to do some more shit. We're going to release that. Then all of a sudden the guy, and then you're doing, then you're, you can, you be an attack dog for us. You do exactly what we say on TV. I don't care how ridiculous it is. Don't get too powerful, Eric Swahl, well, we got, okay, you're out. You ever worry that was going to happen to you? I didn't know at the time. But people find dirt on me. I don't need it right from office. Right. I don't want that shit getting out. So, yeah. I just, I saw behind it and then you see it's all power. It's all power and money. There's nothing created in DC. The richest counties are right there. There's money. There's your money. Aren't my money? Everyone listening. There are money's there. And then nothing's created and we give it to their buddies and they make more missiles. We make more tanks. We make more, what would you think we leave shit in Afghanistan because it's too expensive to bring it, like we give a fuck about how it's been, no, we got to build that shit again. Let them have it. Then we can go destroy it. Then we can make more bombs to destroy the next shit. We leave, like we didn't via them. Like we do everything. It's the same thing. Eisenhower warned about it. We keep doing it because we're burning the books. That's interesting, though, because I agree with you 100%. But it's also like, you've been on the tip of the spear for, I guess essentially, like, you lived your life to be able to go do that shit and be in the dangerous places and take the bad people out and everything, which is supported by those things. But what you're saying is that they just create a lot of fat where you just need muscle. Am I hearing right? That's the truth. Yeah. It's the self-licking ice cream cone. You got to keep the ice cream on top, too. And you got to figure they're doing it right. Look at the recruiting. Look at the marine recruiting. I want to be a fucking marine. Look at the Marines that are out there right now on the mark on the, on the mu. They, they want to go fight right now. I, I was 28 or whatever 9/11, I will fucking invade Canada right now. Let's do this. I was, I remember saying fuck, because we had a swim in a Liberia during the days in Iraq. I remember thinking, I'm going to miss Iraq, fuck. Like that's how bad I want to fight. You're not going to miss shit, son. What were you doing in Liberia? We had a swim in, I think Charles Taylor might have been the president. And he was like, I'm talking straight up cannibalism. Uh, yeah, we, we had to go in just to secure the, uh, secure a lane for Marines to come in and take the embassy if we needed. And this is cool because this is old school frogman shit like old U D T underwater demolition team naval combat demolition units, the naked warriors men, like swimming in with a knife in U D T shirts to catch me fuck me's, uh, swim in, put bombs on stuff like, like sort of shipping link coming for an invasion, Normandy or, or wherever Iwo Jima. So we had to do that, which is kind of dope. And that's what, so we swam, now that was a funny brief because, um, we brief everything. And some of it we just, whatever, if my time is up, that's just it. And one of the things as a seal was, I don't care about the dangerous marine life. It's just, it is what it is, um, like people would say in seal training, aren't you afraid to great white? It's gonna each of their all over. And I said, no, I'm not that lucky. A great white would just kill me. I would finish a four mile swim. He'd fucking grab me and drag me for a mile and let me go. And I got to do it again. That's what the shark would do. But, uh, we're getting ready for this, um, this swim. And we're in the brief and the whoever scientist or weatherman, he goes, have moon rises here. He just marines life. He goes, now you're off the west coast of Africa. So there's every man eating shark, you're going to imagine it right there. Uh, and as you're swimming in, you, you shouldn't because we're kind of far off the coast. But you might run in the saltwater crocodile's man eaters 20 feet long. They'll fucking kill you. Definitely won't run into hippos, but if you do, they kill more people than anything other than mosquitoes every year. And here's your landing point. It's called black mamba point. And the reason is because of all the black mamba's on this point and they're very aggressive and they'll kill you. And then, and then we're like, so then we have a civil war to fight. Okay. So we're, the back of an amphib ship, like a big Navy ship, the back is a box. It will, it will lower down and they, it's called flooding the well deck. So all the water comes in and you put the ships out. So we flood the well deck on, I don't forget what ship it was, but they flood it. There's hammerhead sharks swimming in the ship. Oh god. Yeah. And they're not big, but still the thought is their parents or whatever. So that's, so that's kind of the funny shit. So we just, we, we took the boats and we swam in and I was on the, next to the hammer heads. Yeah, whatever. But it's still the idea that, you know, I don't want to run into him. But we get on the beach and I ran into that film crew for class. I was just funny. And then that picture. Oh, that was when that happened. Yeah. Oh my god. Yeah. I was looking for Jennifer Eccleson and I went up to the guy and I thought, and I was like, where's Jennifer Eccleson? And he goes. We were on camera. Okay. That's the story. Yeah, yeah. But those pictures were out there. That was right when a rock was breaking out. Yeah. The, we were heading over the med to invade with the Marines to Turkey. This is before Turkey got shut down like we're going and I was going. I'm a sniper. I'm fucking excited. I'm invading. Like, I want this. I'm going to go swim, didn't get to you or anybody down there. And then when did you end up in Iraq? My first appointment to Iraq was 2005. What was that like because like everyone talks about obviously, I thought I thought they sent me to the wrong place. I was like, I've been watching this on TV. This place is the most dangerous place in the world. I've got to be in the wrong place. I'm missing it. Something. Cause I go. Well, it's like, we ran into bad guys. We just killed it. It's like, are they that bad? Are we that good? And then nine out of 10 houses were benign. So you run into people and that's when you start to realize, okay, not everyone here is trying to kill it. They're really not. And then that's when you start to think. If you're a thinker, like, you know what? These people have to deal with al-Qaeda all fucking day. And then they get to deal with us all fucking night. And they can't cross either one. I want to do a house in Ramadi writer. I think might have been to 07, which one was really hot. That wrong house, I'm standing in this house on a white carpet, a nice neighborhood. And this woman came out with a daughter of my age. And I remember looking down at her white carpet, that's the only one in the house and thinking, this is why they hate us. And then she offered me tea. Yeah. It's like, what the fuck is this? So anyway, you start to see weird shit like that and you realize that most people are not combatants are just trying to live, man. Right. And even with, I mean, I talked about the invasion. A lot of migrants that actually were migrating were just trying to get away from Sharia. And then the fucking Sharia comes with them. Like a lot of people. I mean, living under Sharia is not fucking fun. And you have to say you want it because they'll fucking kill you. It's kind of a double entendre there. For sure. But that's the thing. It's like, you're kind of stuck between a shit and a fart because you have to stop bad guys from doing stuff. But you have, like you said, the 90, whatever, percent of people that don't want that or aren't around that. But you're in their house with the gun and stuff. Well, even with the, even with the Sunis, al-Qaeda as Sunis, ISIS as Sunis. And so they would stay in the Suni towns. They come in whatever but then they would force our way and so you've got good got well and then fucking Al-Qaeda. And so we have to figure out now how to figure, 'cause they'll hide their guns outside. Now I'm gonna go in, now I got a roomful of people. I know there's bad guys. How do I figure that out? You know what I figured out? Use the kids. - How so? - That sounded bad, but talk to the kids. Find the oldest male who's not a fighting age. And you've already interrogated these fucking guys. I mean, find him in a lie if you can, but they're gonna lie to you anyway, 'cause you're in the fucking house. So you find one of the boys, and you ask 'em something easy, but any answer. 'Cause I got always put the interpreter behind 'em, and then he's talking to me, blah, blah. And he's saying anything. And you're like, finally, finally, the man of the house. Come here, man. And so you build him up loaded and dust him off. It's good to talk to you, man. What's going on? He's like, well, there's these three guys here that I don't know, and I don't, whatever. Oh, well, show 'em to us. And here's easy. Like, put 'em over here. It's dark as hell. Put a screen up there, shine a light in his face. There's one. That's not one. There's two, and there's three. There's y'all kind of guys. Easy. Yeah, you tell 'em he's the man of the house, and he loves that shit. Cuff 'em and go. And he, yeah, cuff these guys, leave them. They're fine. And then he'll spread the word. How many times were you in Iraq? Ah, three. Oh, 50607. Oh, seven was the best one. Why do you say it was the best? Because we had a thing called the awakening. And that's, was it the awakening? The Sunnis realized if we kill, the Sunnis their houses would be safe, so they started to turn them in. And then Stan Macrystal was in charge of J-Sucks, so he sent us on kill missions every night, like kill missions. We got to a point in the summer of '07 where if we only killed 11 people, we're like, this is a waste of our time. That's in houses. Like it was intense. We did a mission where there was a place north of Baghdad called Himbus, and it was a peninsula. So there's '07, no one had been in there since '03, because there's like 19 IED makers in Paris, they're supposed to have roadside bombs. And so there's one road. You can't drive it. They're gonna blow you up. You cannot fast roll 'cause it's so small. They're gonna shoot you down. And you can't carve a bomb 'cause it's so small. And you don't want to kill these people that don't want to be involved. So they came to us with this plan. It's CLT-6, and they said, here's the problem. And so we all looked at it, and we've been beaten to death with water. I've seen seals walk a mile out of the way to knock at their feet wet. And so we're looking at it, and we're all thinking the same thing. Well, it's gonna suck, but we can swim. We can swim in there and get this fucking gas. So we did 17 seals, two dogs, very important. Two malinwas went with us. So we did, it's not even a swim. It's like a swampy shitty fucking rats in the grapefine, shit. But we get there, and then this gun fight starts. We end up taking 10 houses. We killed all 19 dudes. And one of us didn't hurt one woman or child, and then we swam out before the sun came up. - Those, like that. - But this gets better. So the locals wake up the next day. We keep assets above 'em to watch, because they've got one period-- - Drowns. - Yeah. So we'll keep something up there to watch, because they've got 24 hours or whatever, one cycle of sunlight to bury 'em. So whoever comes to bury the bag guys, those are probably bag guys follow them. So we're watching this, and the locals, you can see 'em coming out of their houses, and they're getting terrorized by these fucking alcohols. They don't like it, me either. But they realize all these fucking dudes, these bullies are all dead. So they have this block party. And the word that we got was, yeah, they're dancing in the streets and drinking juice, was the actual thing. So this reporter from Baghdad came up to see what happened. Like, this is big news. He walked through the entire house and talked to the women that survived. And all he asked him was, "Who came last night?" And the headline in the newspaper in Baghdad said they were ninjas, and they came with lions. (laughing) Fucking lions. - Lions. - Yeah, I'm not a man of lions. - We have a big dog, yeah. Jesus Christ. So almost that one was hot, yeah. - So you guys, obviously, like, you're insanely talented and you're going in there and things feel easy for you and everything. But like, when you're looking at the lay of the land by '07 in Iraq, we're at that point where you haven't any thoughts of like, "Damn, this is. " - No, I think we're winning. We're killing. - You still thought you were winning. - Yeah, we're winning this, yeah. We got, we're pushing Al Qaeda out and they're dealing with the pockets of the Shiite in Sa'dar city. So I mean, those heavy fighting in both spots, but we are doing it, but like anything else, we get rules and politicians involved in lawyers and you're going to lose. That's just it. - When do you think that happens? - I remember a gunfight in Afghanistan shooting it out with guys in a cave and then they said, "Okay, we call for Hellfires," and they said, "All right, we're not saying there are women "and children in the cave. "We're just saying we can't prove they're not." And we're like, "We've been in a gunfight "with these fucking guys now and you want us to retreat." Okay, we lost. - What year is that? - Oh shit, that must have been '08 or '09. Oh no, oh wait, we're still getting '09, man. 'Cause once, I mean, when there's speed limits on bases, I got, this is actually a funny story. I went over, we would go over to war zones to reinless because you can get tax-free bonuses. So we would say I got to go augment and goal team. So I'd go over there and you get in a free gunfight in Cannes Harbor, you also got to reinless get like 75 grand, pretty sweet. Especially when you're still shitting Navy chow, like you can't afford a lot of stuff. But we went over there one night, we got a really, really good gunfight in Cannes Harbor. Actually, this was kind of funny 'cause it's different on bases too, 'cause not everybody on a base, not everyone that goes to Afghanistan fights. And that's a funny dynamic too, 'cause what we call them fobets, they don't get off the fob, the Ford Operating Base. And they buy all the shit from the PX, all the magazines, all the candy. So the guys that fight don't get shit. So we make fun of the fobets. So we're back in this chow tent in Cannes Harbor and we just got a blood bath and we're eating and we started getting rocketed. So rockets are landing on the base and all these fobets that are in their clean uniforms all jump under the picnic tables. And there's rangers over here that are just covered in shit and they just were fighting with us. And one dude looks down at one of the army, he's army guy and he's army guy goes, "Hey, bro, this place is surrounded by Hesko's "and if one of these rockets comes through there, "this picnic table is not doing shit. "So just sit up like a man and enjoy yourselves." (blows raspberry) So, but anyway, so then I fly up to Bogram. I'm taking a bird back to the States. Another chow run, so I'm gonna go over to the chow. Buy myself, I got a gun, I got on my ship but I'm going over to the chow hall to eat before I get on to C-17. And this dude stops me, a military police and goes, "Hey, where's your reflective belt?" I was in a gunfight that morning and I said, "My reflective belt?" Like, "Do you want me to get shot or revive me to hide?" 'Cause I, and I go, "I don't have one. Where do I get one to get one?" You get one at the PX for $3. So I'm having fun with this kid and I go, I can get one at the PX for $3. He goes, "Yeah, and I go, here I am thinking safety's free, but it's not, it's $3 at the PX." And so he's like, and he writes me a ticket and I take-- - Oh, he wrote you a ticket for me? - He wrote me a ticket in Afghanistan and I said, "Okay, where do I pay this ticket?" He goes, "Well, you don't, you just get it." And I go, "So I get a free ticket for not wearing a reflective belt." And he goes, "Yeah?" And I go, "Is it a free ticket for littering?" And he's looking at me and I go, "When you call home to your mom, you lie, right?" Like, you don't say this is what you do in the war on terror. You lie, good. And then, so that's what I realized that. We're losing this fucking war. - That red tape comes in like that. - Oh, a speed limit and a reflective belt as I'm carrying a gun in camouflage. - What's interesting though, I've said this a bunch before, just over the years, all the different guys that have come in, be it Delta guys, Army Rangers, Navy SEALs, I've gotten some of the craziest gunfight stories ever from like, '08 to 2014, Afghanistan. - Oh God. - And people just talking about what happened on- - What they did is a lot of those dudes, a lot of the Delta guys and the 70th Ranger Regiment is as dumb as this sounds, they wouldn't let us fight the Taliban. We were going to have to high-value targets, Al-Qaeda, and they just started going to Pakistan. A guy by the name of Scott Moore was a captain at SEAL Team Six. He was a commanding officer. And he somehow finagled that we could take the gloves off and start fighting the Taliban. And that was one of those, be careful what you wish for. Because we're slaughtering fuckers in, we're being the fuck out of Al-Qaeda enough Iraq, it's horrible. Then we start getting gun fights in the mountains with Taliban. Even though the fuckers have been fighting their whole lives and they are fast and they can move and they will fight. But they're also the guys like with Marcus with Pashtun Wally where if you ask them for help, they'll give it to you. So that's a way different dynamic. Make sure they're Pashtun, not Chechen. That's the bad day, you know. In those dagonstanies here in Russell Bears, we've seen that in the US. - Oh yeah, no, they don't fuck around. - No, hey, respect. - Yeah. - Now you actually, 'cause you alluded to that earlier. So you were on the team that came in and rescued lone survivor, Marcus. - Yeah, I was actually in Jalalabad, Afghanistan, running, not running, sorry, at an outstation. And an outstation in this case was you just find something and you buy it and then you hire locals. Like guys before me bought a motel and then they hired locals to build the fences and then they hired locals to plum, be through the plumbing and then to electricity and then you hire security. And that's how you went hearts and minds, it's not cooking tea. Like I'm stimulating the economy and shit like that. So I was at that outstation and we're building the airfield at Jalalabad, which is a huge J-bed I think now. And that's actually where another part where I thought this isn't going the right direction. We're in Jalalabad, Afghanistan. That was the capital for the Taliban. And we're in this outstation, the airfield's not built yet. That's when they announced, hey, we're gonna surge again. And this is the Obama administration, I think. Well, it's right around then, oh, eight or nine. So whatever. And I remember on the ground, now we're on the ground living in Jalalabad. Like, we're buying swimmers and rugs and shit. And we know the locals, this economy is good. We're protecting the families that, you know, this is good. You're gonna surge, what you're gonna build a wall around the airfield and then no one gets to leave the airfield. No, no, no. And with these new, no, instead of me driving around a motorbike, you're gonna have a scared 20 year old private driving an aircraft running over kids. You're going to go to the bizarre you know that five vendors on the base to sell rugs They're going to jack the price up 500% their millionaires their poor what the fuck do you think's going to happen Why would you serve it and you know they did but but this is before that I went back to Um, I heard some guys from seal team 10 had just inserted snipers into one of the valleys near the passion So I went to I've drove my motorbike out there and I ran into Dan Helian and Jeff Taylor A bunch of guys over there, and I was just bullshit with me said yeah, we inserted four snipers and they're going to find a mod shot and once they give us the Word we're gonna fly in I'm like fuck that's dope. I want to get on it I called Bagram to seal team six my first deployment of seal team six and I told them I was like I want to get on this mission They said no one from fucking seal team six is getting on that helicopter because there's missiles in the valley They're gonna shoot it down So we're both I was both in with Dan Helian about Sam Adams I went to sniper school with him and we I knew he's from New England He loves Sam Adams and then whatever yeah, we'll grab when I got another month or two here so you're going home after this one See and then they took off and they that was one of the last guys to see them alive. They got shot down So we're back in the airfield at so turbine three three was shot down turbine three four I don't know what happened, but these are TF 160's pilots They landed in the wrong place when they came back after three three was shot down killing all 16 guys on board So they were so the guys from there had a run back. I'm at J bed. I'm watching guys walk in I'm like, okay Okay, this world's a better place. You're still here. What the fuck happened? And they said these plumes came out and turned and they hit up. They missed us hit them And so then we have to go okay, we there's a crash that we don't know we don't know if the survivor so we got to go and we get word Well, they're not gonna fly you they're getting shot down so figure it out So we have to steal cars. So I'm like, okay, there's a tent full of Rangers. This is so this is how awesome Rangers are We went in this tent me and another dude from six like hey, here's the situation and I'm gonna need five five guys Okay, and they all got out of their racks every single Ranger. They said normally it takes five minutes to get ready We'll be outside in three all these Rangers came out like go find cars go find fucking donkeys go find water whatever and we had this Trail and we met the guys from a bad the CA guys there and we drove the cars as far as you can start walking and then we get to 10,000 feet and We're just up there and We get word that Axel sent in a little trailer is still alive trying to find Murphy and Deets We had some guys get up to the crash site and we went we had to call eight tens in on some dudes in it It's just got weird one of the weirdest stories up there. I didn't see it But Lou Langless was one of the red team guys He made it to the crash site and he sees the bodies and she didn't hey, I guess he said I'm gonna go down to that village and just like Try to and he's walking away. I guess he turned around and said I just don't want to die like that And then Lou was on extortion 170 died just like that I don't know like a six two thousand eleven So just the way it all you know that all repeats And that's that's that's that that comes back though that my rule don't die because you got bored Mm-hmm ask the families who were they going after that night? Big deal to fucking time. Yeah, no one knows no one cares How many guys did you go up there with again? Where I did to go find them been loud. No, no, no, not been long. Oh, they shut the country down They shut the country everybody went we went first with shit. We had a hundred dudes Climbing them because we were just climbing like everyone that thinks they can fight go up there Like we had donkeys carrying our water. I watched donkeys jump off of cliffs the hike was so bad. Just jump Like that's it the one donkey didn't pick a cliff big or tall enough to kill him But he picked a cliff that was tall enough to make him realize once he land that was a bad idea You can hear him. Yeah, it's and like they sure they finally flew some birds in They try to throw us water out of the bird they threw that down a cliff It's like and then we get up and then other guys from red squadron flew into the crash sites like okay But then we turn around then we used to call on eight tens on these other guys We get back down to the thing. We're awake for three day man two days and then the villager came in with a note from Marcus So we got a note and it's like okay, and then this is the weird CIA dynamic because the CIA never wants to lose a source They would rather keep a source than save an American sort of god. I don't lose my source man. It's like So this guy's here with this like what he's walking us to this fucking place And they're trying to talk is out of it and here's where you realize it's a weird place too It's like okay. I'm gonna have him show me which house Marcus is in not realizing we're about to show this man Who doesn't know what numbers are an iPad? So forget addition welcome welcome to Apple bitch So we might as well have shown him the face of a homie So it's like now we're gonna walk him in yeah, they're like well He didn't cross the T's in the trail. It's like he got a social right. That's him. So then we're gonna bring this like a one of the Ranger I think a major got kicked out of the country for this because we badmouth everybody. Yeah, so we walk up With this and we're just gonna pretend he's a prisoner, but he's gonna tell us so we go drive back in this Shit hole fucking feel like if you're there by yourself, they're gonna cut your head off And we're in danger most dangerous place in world climb up the mountain. We're still been awake And we're getting up on top we get word. He's down in this village So and I remember we're we're having these we're trying to talk each other like hell week trying to talk each other to go in And one of my guys said okay, I I don't think I can go anymore And I said yeah, that's cool. We'll just tell Marcus's mom misses the trail that we were this close And we couldn't get him because you got fucking tired and he's like yeah, you're right And I said tell me that exact same thing because I don't think I can fucking go anymore And then the ranger swooped in they grabbed and they took off They got him So now we're looking at this valley we're up on a mountain, but that's me start to realize We gotta get the fuck out of here now And then I remember looking at my guys and I said this is why training is so hard Because if you wanted to quit right now where the fuck you gonna go You're just here now You're so let's try to get out of here alive that we don't want to be the next one Crazy. Yeah, and then Afghanistan you're I mean you're fighting The geography as much as you're fighting it's a graveyard of empires. It's the western Himalayas No one has gone in there and conquered you won't It's just I mean we've proven the technology doesn't matter You got to get on the ground with the sandals and fighting with fucking rocks. Did you want to do you have a stomach for that? And you would said before right before this happened that's when you had moved over to dev group. Yeah, I moved over Yeah, I was it I Went I applied right after 9/11 I got into the 2004 selection course. How does that work with that? That's a tough process You need to get approved by the conventional teams are groups of Navy SEAL divided by number And the odd numbers are in San Diego 1357 even numbers in Virginia 24810 Um, so you need to get approved by them Use after five years as an active SEAL combat And then you apply and the way you apply is like you send in a resume And the very basic way to get turned down is a hand your picture to the guys that are there and they just if they don't like you It's not throughout that simple. I've seen guys. Nope done So you do that then they come to your team and they interview you then they have you do a pretty considerable Test up PT test. So it's a good run. It's a it's a three mile run into 730 pace which guys fail Uh, it's like 10 pull-ups with the 45 pound weight and then Your body weight 10 times bench press and shit like that. It's a legit workout uh, and then they interview you and then uh The interview's tough because you're like this is the start of the war so these are no shit hard fucking Massachusetts Oh, yeah, these are endless to do's and then the one officers checking your service right there to make sure your rib is all matched And then they send in psychiatrists that was hilarious The first three is three weeks the first screening process is three weeks to see if you qualify for the selection course So the like they'll two and a half weeks is all I get in your head It took me a day and a half to finish a 5,000 question multiple choice test With all based on behavior so one is never I never feel like that and there's two and three is like seldom five is always That's just it and then the questions come up and they're in no order and they're not questions But the y'all it's like the example I give is you sit down you're excited number one you love roses like fuck Yeah, always that's easy. Everyone loves roses number two you wanted to capitate kittens like well shit that went sideways And like look at it in your buddy like do you sell them fucking cats? I don't know I so it's gonna be a day and a half and I asked I had the same psychiatrist for 10 years and I this is when I met her whatever I just got to meet her and I said what's the point of this test and she goes oh We're not trying to figure out if you're crazy. We're trying to figure out which flavor it is right and then we're gonna place you And then I'm that do that test again that hard physical test and if at that point if they like you They invite you to the nine month selection course So if you get you get we it was one one a year It got to a point for two a year because we were rotating so fast But then that process is It's not like seal training where you can drown because the guys have proven they will So we're trying to find people who can make decisions and stress So we make drills based on CQB But they're long exhausting drills with all your shit at a hundred five degrees Fahrenheit in Mississippi with loud music plan All the drills in the killhouse are designed for you to fail you don't know that And then they punish you for failing such an easy task So they beat your ass for 20 minutes as soon as you're done getting beat your right back is number one Men you're running it again you fail again why are you doing that because they want to see how you handle it You were gonna fail that we punish you for failing and the test was can you get over it? How many guys like 50% don't make it 50% half the guys that have been Navy seals for five years in combat don't make it through It's intense and then the ones who do become part of it too And it's nine months nine months and it's like it's so bizarre like I remember having a A day of house runs CQB so good I am so good at this I got it to three runs later. They have me carrying a fucking broom telling me I'm so unsafe You don't belong here. You don't belong to have a gun run it with the broom will see if we'll keep you And then you just stay there and then you graduate then you go to the assault team and what what year did you end up doing? And then you get to the squadron where the guys are and you think you're good after seal team six selection I fucking got this I'm fast you get there. They're fucking gone. We're what the show three five guys from select green team like where the fuck is shit follow them and then you then you that's when you start to learn you do Is it like you're inventing tactics? You're just you're coming up with shit. What what is this? Why are we screwing this up? We come up with tactics. We're inventing shit. Okay. They I'll kind of do this that time. How do we we? They were hitting us from the 5% coming into a room because they know you got to enter so how we get 10 motherfuckers out of a plane To skydive at the same time. Why are we getting 10 motherfuckers in that room? Let's work on it Shell like that and then you're just running stuff. You're dirty. I remember talking to daddy dirty Corbett Fearless, absolutely fearless. We were fearless. We were Working on what we can jump because we thought the bin Laden raid would be a skydive. Hey, oh, hi. Let's do high opening So we're like, okay, we got to figure out a painter's pole because we can contact a ladder to that with it with a shepherd's hook We might need this fucking thing or whatever these want and anything like big guns or shit if you're skydiving You're you got lines coming out if they wrap that's a horseshoe malfunction and you're probably gonna fucking do it So we're with and I had I needed someone to do what we call the wall lock or jump everything we got I need someone to jump it dirty. I'll do it And I remember we had to I was one of the jump masters another one of the jump masters I'm the lead jumper jump master another jump master like tandem masters we do this and we're just looking for his leg straps to make sure they're connected Here and I'm like dirty. I can't Promise you anything you're connected and your parachutes packed well and you got to reserve And we're jumping at three. I'm I'm going out before you so I won't see you I hope to see you on the grow I hope to see you on the ground standing up because the nice thing about skydiving Is no matter how bad it goes you're gonna fucking land that is right You just might not just a matter of You know again positive attitude. Well, even with the I explained to people the cool thing about Hayhose like the way that we do it because you're jumping like trying to do the most basic shit because when the EMP hits Can you fucking start a fire do you know where north is? Can you find true north on a flat earth? Another one that's a whole deal. So I just thought I throw that in actually Because it seems like true north is always in the middle. I'm not touching it. I'm not either. I get yelled at all the time So um, but as soon as you're as a lead jumper for a Hayhose deck This is so cool because we've only we're going to a spot 11 12 13 miles away. We won't see it on a map So you get out there just with your shit and a glide ratio is altitude Distance speed heading bearing course calculate that shit. Can we make it? And then you decide for everyone nope can't make it so then as a lead jumper if you're excited Which I am I got to find an alternate drops and let's fucking do this. Yeah, that's not for me. Yeah We we ones not for me. We had do like we're inventing tactics. Where do you put your night vision? Because we're doing like because we had one Do's night vision because we were wearing them, but then up and this is before we put this is before we put the the small That's how you learn. It's how you develop tactics. He jumped out pow no night vision And he's and we're landing on a cliff like Richard Nixon's old Runway going up a cliff in Arizona like he used to land there in a shitty plane And so we landed we had to have one of our other lead jumpers. I think Jimmy Hatch did it. He uh He had to talk him in. He's like you got to trust me All right, here's your altitude turn left turn left turn left. Okay. One more time turn left turn left And he lived it's like okay from now on uh, we're gonna figure out a way to put bungee's on these probably jump them down and spread and we're also carrying extra night vision That's how we learn. Yeah, he had to do that on a cliff at night in the dark. Oh, and you got to figure that parachute is not just a safe This is going 20 miles an hour forward mad. You have a 15-hour win behind you. You're landing on a cliff at 35 miles an hour And those rocks are uh, not to get all technical, but those rocks are unforgiving. Yeah, now you're you're breaking some bones Oh, breaking your fucking attitude. Yeah, doing something But how much did you feel like once you got through the nine-month training for dev crew and then got in there And you know start working up with those guys. How much did you feel like your Approach shifts of where it's like, well, this is this is different than what I used to even though I was already a CL I already saw a lot of combat. I was already doing my thing like this These got this just operates differently. I'm thinking differently. Uh, just the assets um the mindset was way different There was no doubt about whether or not we can do it. It's how right how are we going to figure this out and then and then it's it's the whole um If there's an issue like right now problem solving and someone sees the way you move to solve it They're just going to come help you with it like oh, I got I have input for this like really sharp dudes and and with that Comes a sense of humor too. I think the smarter the people the funnier they are that was one of the thing I was never worried about About the physical stuff for getting in because of the tactics when I checked in the CL team to the first time one of the first guys I met was Don Shipley and he's a pretty famous CEO. Oh, yeah. That's a funny motherfucker. He came in you must be the new guys Yeah, shit senior chief cool. Do you want to go to the chiefs they'll get a beer? Yes, I do And then hearing guys banter was like oh shit, these dudes are good and then you get to CL team six. I thought it was pretty fucking funny Uh, and I'm flying them all there. Listen. I'm like I got to step my game up again. These guys are fine But then with that comes from morale and with the morale It's the guy down bin Laden's hallway. I know that fucking dude Like that's that come that's what that's the whole it's it's cool to say never leave a man behind But I know his kids man. Yeah, that's shit. So and uh his favorite shitty fucking joke I know what beer he drinks before he dies. I know these guys So it's uh, it's uh, it's uh, that that's why I love the human element of everything because there's a human element with both sides Bullseye's because figure this nobody thinks they're the bad guy Like puts themselves in a show. They're righteous. They're freedom fighters No one thinks they're like I'm like even serial killers are psychopaths. So they think they're doing some Their own enjoyment is uh, is the right thing. No one's out there Yeah, so it's do you ever like Do you ever wonder if some of the bad guys That not necessarily I'll kind of but some of the bad guys you may have been sent in To go get there was a reason they were that way Meaning like the while they're fighting us. Yeah. Oh, yeah, they're fighting us because we're there Uh, I rack really kicked off because it's so much easier to go fight Americans than I racked in the mountains So they started showing up for everyone like uh, uh, uh, uh Abu Misab al-Zakari was from Jordan And he cut off Nick Brooks had personally like he was a dude that been lawden actually started email and like hey homie You need to pipe it down a little he was the godfather of ISIS. Mm-hmm. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. So uh, um Yeah, a lot of these are fighting just because we're there. Um, nothing else to do seriously I've got to stand that is what they do and then uh, I mean you got to figure too if you're gonna if you're gonna be an honest person It doesn't matter your intentions You spend enough time in someone else's house. You're an you're an occupier. Right. And they I mean there's really I mean even when I was saying like that I'd see why they don't like us. Yeah, I mean you're running over my kids with your fucking foreign vehicles. I'm piss of you I'm gonna fight you. I'm gonna fight you come here. I'm fighting That's that's what they they there's national pride everywhere What was it like for you to see 20 years after Afghanistan not just fall the way it did but effectively that Uh, typical politics typical promise campaign promise I will in the war in Afghanistan and then doesn't matter how as long as they promise it and I do That's just politicians don't say anything about victory. Oh, shit. We forgot to win a long time We don't even teach winning anymore. We don't teach it in the academies that our officers don't know how to win That there's no end. How do you figure that they just there's no competition to win? What is winning? I think patent knew how to win and then oh, of course he said, you know, we should have been fighting the Russians And then he died he died getting a tooth pulled. They didn't like that big deep state doesn't like it They got central banks are right. Yeah, they didn't like that But you don't think they teach winning at West Point or any of these places. No, there's still teaching which bathroom to use Oh, they're the academies are bad yeah How does that get I mean they've got their guys they they have their studs like you you don't get into the academy Either any of them without being a stud and academically physically all that stuff men and women But yeah, they think they can be winners. Oh, they can the problem is the hierarchy because at some point again Power people need to get promoted in order to get from what I got to do the bullshit that the commanders intent says we need to have command climate Of someone's worried about their ass getting started So we've been to talk about sexual harassment and then it gets into worsen worsen worsen Did you like I mean even like did you get your cavity filled because you can't go to Afghanistan What what what the fuck right red tape everywhere red tape everywhere rules of engagement rules rules But a guy like Admiral McGratham was clearly well, I mean, you know, he's got his critics But he was just the fucking man. Yeah, and he well Admiral McGratham looks like a fucking seal Like he's he looks in sounds like an ABC. That's what I want to look and sound like And that like when I get fired about the stories like imagine how afraid Al Qaeda must have been they couldn't hear us But we got 23 fucking bill McCrave is running through that's coming to get you Good luck. No, you're gonna lose. That's a tough day. Yeah You know, it's like talk with you at like you're like I was saying earlier You're almost gamified approached everything like oh, this is the next thing I can go get this This is exciting and all that it all started though with you going in and being recruited by the wrong place Seriously and yet, you know, well, that's that's the people need to realize that in life when I talk to someone who says I Like the one that pisses off veterans is well, I was gonna join but I did blah blah blah and they get pissed I don't get pissed at that the guy will say well, I I tried seals, but I quit blah blah. I'm like well, that worked out really well for you then why would you have kids? Yeah, well, you wouldn't have them if you made it so that's a you're here today with them. So it's a good Like well, I'll say them so my I have college age kids and they'll say Something about a term paper. We're starting for finals. It says a shitty. I'm hung over right now the blah blah. I'm like Oh, yeah, hey, here's something to think about talking to my daughters If a 23-year-old dude in the Marine Corps was in station of Butemontana as a recruiter in 1995 and he was an at Arby's at 1130 on a Wednesday. You wouldn't be alive. How was that term paper? Doesn't fucking matter That's the butterfly effect, but yeah, 100% like that's the drinking thing this tattoo on 1925 probably really stupid, but on 71835. That's pretty badass. Yeah That's the butterfly. You want to make a change in life. You're 2% now and 10 years going to be pretty fucking dope. Had you saw it about though and all before you walked in that office, the idea of like taking a life of anyone? No, because there's not going to be a war. It's over. The closest we came was Black Hawk Down in '93. So you thought you were just going to base a living? I thought chicks would dig it. Yeah. Literally. I got dumped by a chick. I'm going to be a Marine. Now, when did that change? Well, I joined the Navy. So now I got to begin. No, it was that's my entire career was. Okay. It is the Navy. I just signed to be a seal. I'm not going to make it. But I get to go to Coronado. I get to live on barracks on that beach. This is before we started getting on the T.O. on a shit in the water. So it's going to be awesome. I'm going to get a sign to a ship after they kick me out because I'm not quitting. And then I'll have four years with the sea stories. I go sea stories. I go back to beat Montana. And I'll sit at Meloni's pub and I'll drink beer and I'll tell sea stories. That's it. I get to seal training. And I remember it being so hard. I don't have I do have a past. I don't have a future. I'm just going to be in hell. And then on Monday, like, Hey, go to medical. Get your record and your service record because you're getting assigned to seal team two. It's like, what the fuck does that mean? You made it through. No, seal training doesn't. Yes, it does. So you drive out there forbending Georgia, work with the army, learn how to jump, get to seal team two finishes. Shit. This flight deployment four years up done single. I do not want to go back to beat Montana. I love these guys. I will reenlist. So I reenlist. I meet guys like jaco, uh, fucking, you're also in the special forces. Yeah. I'm not leaving. You don't need a war. No, there's missions you have where you got to go places. What I miss about that is the skydiving trips to Tucson. You're going to live in a Marriott on the fucking campus of the universe of Arizona. You're going to skydive all day. And then your buddy Nelson Miller owns the fucking tried it on speed. Well, I'm going to go there all night. And then I'm going to do that every day. I miss that shit. But I mean, even the thing with the reenlistment, I reenlisted just to stay with the guys in 9/11. I can't leave. Reenlist. I went to seal team six on a fucking whim. I was going to get out of that. I was close because I'd fought a little bit not enough. I went to a a leadership course on Oceana annex Damneck, where seal team six is. I went to a course in my uniform, went to lunch at the Davie exchange because, you know, every day low prices, maybe exchange for your family story. And there's got to got a plug Davie change. I go in there. There's a dude in flip flops, cut off cammy pants, and like a beard. And he sees my triad and he's I fucking me. And I'm like, that's the seal team six guy. Fuck him. I'm going to find out what that's all about. So I went seal team six because of him basically. I was on the fence, whether or not I'm going to try out. But again, you had seen you had seen combat. I little bit not as not as much time, but a little bit. Enough to know bullets. But yeah, but it's still like I want to see my family again. So I might get out. But then I saw the sift. I'm like, okay, I'm definitely going there now. But there had that's what I'm saying. Like it's an interesting way you put it. You have a pass, but you don't have a future when you're in buds. But then you get out there, like go to fucking seal team. Well, what does that mean? I'm so no, I'm you I make my bed every morning. I brush my teeth. I get to the work at untime. That's what I do. What do you mean? I got it. What the fuck is a seal? You've been teaching me nothing. I've been beat. But now you have to think about both sides of the equation at some point there, right? Where it's like anywhere I could go, I could die. And anywhere I go, I may have to take a life. Well, I mean, we got guys that went to Arizona for one of them. Skydive trips never came back. Even that training, but like thinking about the stuff that's higher percentage possibility. Like, did you ever like slow down for a second? I'd be like, wow. Combat is a lot like the mindset of combat is a lot like skydiving. It's a lot like shark diving. I like to dive without cages with apex predators. That's not the the it's great stress relief. It's the scary part is from the bench to the door. So right before I skydive, that's the part you're like, all right. All right. Then you jump. It's over. It's on. When you get in the water with the tiger sharks or the great whites, it's just on. And when you get to combat, it's just on. And then when you get to combat that you realize, I'm actually really good at this. And they're not. And I can see at night. And they can't. I like this. I'm good at this. My friends are here. Like one of the rules is if you have to go somewhere, bring a gun and bring a friend with a gun. You're gonna. Yeah. It's the whole. I came up with when I was using an M4, which is right before we started using the 416s Formation K. I had a thing with I stopped carrying an escape and evasion kit, like, which is your extra whatever blah, blah, blah. If I could single device, right? I stopped carrying it because that's a waste of my weight. I have the M4 charge card. And they would say, what is an M4 charge card? It's like, it's it's simple. You have a car. I have a gun. I now have a car and a gun. You can charge anything with this thing. So yeah, just like that, your dad. Yeah. And then you find yourself in situations like the one in Pakistan where it's like fucking five guys on however many are in the high or in the high ground like that in a way. Yeah. Yeah. And you're just joking your way through it. And then suddenly you get your oh shit moments where like this is, I mean, don't get me wrong. I did take everything very serious. And if I could if I could have a mission go perfectly, it wouldn't be as funny. So I would be serious. But when shit goes side, it's like, I think someone even asked on the mission, like, what happened? The helicopter crashed. You do that shot on purpose? No fucking idiot. He's fucking it. You know, so the sense of humor is there. But if it's if a mission is going perfect, there's your problem. So now I got to be really serious because that's the problem. I'm walking into an ambush because you do need to realize in combat anything you do can get you killed, including nothing. Like there were dudes that died like survive combat and then they'll leave in a shitter on basically hit with a rocket and then your time's up. Yep. And again, too, that's a there's a reality of my admanship better be in order. Do I have my will the correct way? Because guys were fucking with that guys were like, there was a dude said, yeah, I want this guy singing tiny dancer. I'll go, uh, I'll cappella not a cappocal at my funeral. Like I want him singing. But then guys start dying. It's like, all right, strike that. I need to get more life insurance because he didn't come home. His kids are okay. And then you, you know, you get all your shit squared away. And it's like, it is a just make sure it's in order because the worst the worst conversation I hated was, uh, did you know? It's like, did you know Scott Nielsen? What the fuck do you mean? Did I know? Did you know my coke? Yeah, what happened? Yeah, getting the I I was actually after the bin Laden raid in I was I was the liaison for Jsock in Fort Bragg. So after the bin Laden raid, I was down there in August. And I was we were we were out one night. I went back to the hotel and I'm getting ready to go to bed. They said, um, helicopter was just shot down Afghanistan. A lot of people on board said, don't fuck me. And I, so I drive in a Jsock and I just type a message, um, what just happened to my guys over in Afghanistan. I got a response immediately with a list of names, 31. Yeah, 31 names, 31, 31. Bart, I knew 17. Oh, and so you get, uh, you process something like that. That's you don't. That we finished bin Laden. We're on a high and now we lose all and we lose the best fucking guys. 17. Yeah, uh, that you knew. Yeah, Robert James Reeves was on there. Robert, I'm Robert James O'Neal. He's Robert James Reeves. I just named my first son after him. I named him Reeves. So he's a Robert, he's Reeves Thomas, but I didn't have to Robert James because he, I had one of the most profound moments with him. I went through selection with Rob Reeves and he, I wasn't his roommate, wasn't his best friend, but always every time I spent time with Rob Reeves, it was just quality time. He was never rattled. Whenever I get rattled and have a fucking idea, like, and he would say, he would be the guy say, you know what? That's probably a bad idea. It's like that calm and gun fights. I've been at fights with him for once. Like just the really good looking fucking cool. And I went to his house after the bin Laden raid. And he was gold team. I was wrenching. And, uh, uh, he, he just, he was good because I don't know how to handle that shit. You just killed bin Laden. No one knows how to handle that. And then you got the fucking whatever. And so I don't know what we're going to do with this. So I went to his house and he poured a glass of red wine. I was a big drinker at the time. And he said, you want a glass of red wine? I said, I'm good tonight. I think I'm good. He said, okay. He sat there with me and he took a sip of his red wine. He said, you know, one of these days a lot of us are going to die on one of those helicopters. Yeah. Just like that. And then what a month later, he died on one cell phone because we're just packing it in. We all knew that shit. One, you only, you only need to be right or wrong once a bullet needs to be right once one RPG kills everybody. That's it. And he was on it. No, that's the thing. I think about that with all you guys. Oh, yeah. It's like, we don't know these times. We don't know. We don't lose the, yeah. It's like all you need was one that went this way and set it that way. We were on an insertion one time. And again, I mentioned the pilots calm voice. Like when you're flying somewhere and you hit an air pocket and spill something on yourself and the pilot comes over and says, well, obviously we've hit some weather up here at 38,000 feet. It's a calm you. The fuck down because you're not helping him. He's got this shit, right? He's a pilot. He's a fucking man. But we were inserting on a 47. It's always the 47. And Al Mack was flying. I'll never forget Al Mack. Probably the greatest pilot in the history of the army. And that says a lot because if you're the best pilot in history, the army the best pilot ever. And like, I mean, I have a shirt that we made that says, I know Al Mack. Like he's the man. He saved everyone's life when Neil Roberts fell out on on Robert's Ridge and I talk her car because he got hit and then he, he, you got to talk to that guy. But he was flying us in on a 47. And it's again with the twin thing bigger than the school bus. Like this thing gets hit. Everyone dies. And you never do a hot insert. That's Hollywood shit. If you're doing a hot insert, you fucked up and then we didn't know these people. So we're inserting on a 47. I was a team leader on the ramp and one of my other team leaders up front. We're looking at the starboard side and the right side. It's always the right side. And these flaming footballs started shooting RPGs. And we're on like final. So we're flaring and you're, you're just, this is it. And then we hear, I look at the team leader. We're on the communication system for the bird and we hear that's a dish. I look at him and I can hear him speaking. I see his mouth. He goes, is that a fucking dish? And they're designed to shoot and we're like, and so there's a realization This could be an L Mac. knowing that he's flying the fuck a thing. He's flight lead. He came over to calm us down and all I said was, "Well, this is fucking bullshit." (laughing) And that worked. And then he landed and we all got up. We killed everyone, those motherfuckers, he took off. Yeah, that's why he's him. He needed to say that to us. I need you so I can snap out of it. Comedy again. And he was right. This is fucking bullshit. Yeah. Did anything change for you when you had kids like perspective wise on the missions? Yeah. 'Cause I had my kids during, before and during selection and then one, I had a-- Shield team six, yeah. And, yeah, 'cause they got the goodbyes. I was, when we, on my birthday, good Friday, April 10th, I was in my daughter's Easter tea party at her preschool. And I was actually bringing her a pink plate with cookies and shit that four-yo's eat. And I got a message for Cam Phillips. And I had to look down on her and give her a kiss and go to war. From a preschool classroom on a long weekend. That's hard. And like, and the hardest goodbye was when we were seven. That was the one way mission. We're gonna die on this. And so saying goodbye to them. I said, she was always there. When I, I said goodbye to her on all those. But my youngest daughter at the time was three and she came, this has for a bin Laden. I couldn't even tell 'em I was leaving. How long before the mission? Is this? Oh, this is what I'm leaving. Like, but how many days? Oh, sorry. The one good Friday was for, well, when I kissed her goodbye for Cam Phillips, 15 hours and 46 minutes away. Yeah, that one was right away. For, I'm leaving for the bin Laden raid right now. So this is like four days before. Oh, about a week. About a week, okay. And then my daughter, my three year old, got her Hello Kitty carry on and put Mr. Elephant at a pillow in it 'cause that's all she could understand. And she said something about taking her on vacation when I come home or some crazy shit. And then I got to leave. Yeah, that's tough one. That's why the 90 minute flight back on the helicopters like I might get to see him again. This is big. That's tough. And they're tough kids, man. I'm saying though, but like I can't even imagine they don't know, but you know 'cause all your buddies know too. They did the same shit. Like these, we all have families. We're, you know, 'cause we're 33 year old dudes. How do you walk away from that? That's a good question. I know that I can cry for five minutes in my car, but then I'll get there so I can stop. Like, well, can you, how can you compartmentalize whatever pain you're about to go on? And then, and then you then you got to turn it the fuck on. This could be it. They're gonna be proud of me. I wrote a letter when my, one of my daughters was seven. I didn't write it to the seven year old. I wrote it to the 27 year old. And I just sang, I'm really sorry Mr. Wedding. I know you're beautiful. And I want to thank you for taking care of your sisters and your mom. And here's what we did. And it was noble and why. And tears hitting the page. Like, I fuck man. I'm explained to her in 20 years why I'm not there. And then the hard, so I had three daughters at the time. I had to write them all letters. Then I have to find someone to give them to them because everyone with me is gonna be dead. So I gotta find someone who's not gonna be dead, but that means he doesn't know what the mission is. So I had a, like, layer this in a Manila envelope and find a Navy intel guy. I said, hey, here's who I am. And here's this. And you're gonna need to, in 24 hours, there's instructions inside. So open this and do what you do. And then just give it back to me when you see me next. If not. And he goes, how will I know? And I go, I assure you, you're gonna fucking know. Just hold on to this for a while. Then I came back and I grabbed them. I immediately shredded them, which is probably a mistake. - You can't write that in a movie. - No. - You couldn't. - I should have helped with the movie. It was pretty good. - That's just like, ooh. Like, I mean, they're sponge on me. - It's real. I mean, you think about that shit. And then when you see other kids on target, now you think, well, that's someone's kid. Someone really cares about them. - Yeah. - And it's again, what are all these men doing here killing each other right now? And who's to send us all here? For why? Do you think humanity can exist without war? - No. - You don't. - Humanity can't, humanity could exist peacefully if it weren't for humanity. - I agree, but please explain that. - We just fuck everything up. We, the third person to be created by God killed the fourth. Like, it just, that's just how we do. - It's like, societies change, technology changes. Relationships, and how people interact across cultures that changes in some ways too, but the human nature coefficient never changes. - Never. - It just operates in different ways. But I, I unfortunately agree with you. I, what I'd like to see though, I'm an optimist. - I do. - You know, what I'd like to see is a world that minimizes it, where you do have like, some nations around the world, where there is legitimately like, that phrase, like, "Peace through strength," but it's a constant deterrent. And then people don't do things. - Well, I mean, you can find it. And the best way to do that is to take this thing in your pocket, and leave it at home, and then go outside, and then grasp your shoes on. Like, I got a thing with, this is a cool one too, with my youngest daughter, Valor. She's a two-year-old. And I wouldn't take her name as Valor. - That's kind of similar. - Yeah, in Valor, there was hope. I like that. - Yeah, she's good. She's my little buddy. And we will, what I like to do with her is we'll play, the little game is, let's go act like puppies. And I said that at first, because I didn't realize how cool it actually was. But if you act more like a puppy, your life's better, all that means is we're gonna take our shoes off, we're gonna go out in the lawn, and we're gonna lay in the grass and look up. And she gets to see the sky and the trees, and doesn't get that angle, so I don't have a phone. There's no music playing. I hear the birds, I hear her laughing, and I'm getting the energy from the earth. That, all of a sudden, we could be doing better. And everyone can do that, because, again, all the problems on the phone are not all real. Yeah, there's assholes, yeah, they get pissed, but there is some good out there. It's just, we need to put a check on the humanity. - 100%. - And then also the people in power, you gotta realize, they're telling you shit, so they stay in power, not for your good. They don't care about your good. They don't care about the blue-collar worker. They don't care about raising your taxes. They care about staying in power. It's addicting. I've seen it in DC, you walk outside. It's fucking addicting. - How long did you stay there? - Probably two years, and I moved to Texas, then I met Jessica, and then I moved to New York. - So this was after your first marriage, and after, obviously after what years was this? - I got out in 2012. - Yeah, but what year were you in DC? - I was in DC from 12 to 14. - Oh, right away. - Yeah, I moved right up. I left my house, moved my kids somewhere else, and I drove up to DC to start working. - And then two years later. - Well, I didn't know what I was gonna do. - Yeah, I didn't know what I was gonna do. - And then I moved to Texas, and then I met Jessica in Florida, and then we went to New York. - Real quick, I gotta go to the bathroom. - Yeah, do it. - I wanna pick her back. - I'm gonna stand up, too. - So while we were away, we're back now, we pulled up this picture you were talking about earlier. - Yeah, that's one Rovia light barrier, where we had a swim in because there was a civil war and a little trivia there, too. Monrovia, so Liberia is a country that was actually given to free slaves because Liberia means liberty. Monrovia was the president, it's capital. And their American flag, it's a red wine blue, there's one star, and they're actually very appreciative of Americans. - That's cool. - Yeah, I didn't know that history. - Yeah, I just speak English over there, yeah. And they're like, okay, 'cause you're involving people, so it turns into fucking debauchery. But really, like, very proud of their country, and that just they, you know, get assholes in charge, don't have money, and also they start eating each other. So what are you gonna do? (laughs) - Yeah. - Where they happen to see come up on the beach. - One day you're just jumping bus fares, and next you're eating each other. - Yeah, well, you know what, that's human nature. - No, but when we came in, you can see them celebrating all the people that fired up, 'cause they thought we were there to rescue them. - You look so different there. - Yeah, I was pretty big and I was young. - So yeah, look at the fat dip. - 26 big fat dip in. - Big fat dip in the fucking chin, right? - Yeah, we were, this is after my platoon with Jocco, and Jocco, 'cause I was a pretty good cardio guy, and Jocco said that's cute, but if I get shot with all my shit on, can you carry me home? I was like, no, he was gonna get in the gym. And he would do stuff like, here's what we're gonna do. Everyone of this work, everyone needs to bench press over 300 pounds, and then we're gonna eat together, and when you're done eating, we're gonna eat a little more. And that was just it. So, but yeah, we can get with that. - Yeah, it's cool, like that. - On a Navy ship, if you have the right chefs, they can cook a lot of burgers. - Fuck yeah. - So it's just these straight beef, yeah. But yeah, we got big, we were bench pressin' big, and then we just swam in there, and then looked around. - Yeah, you're looking jack, like that's a right kind of big, you know what I mean? - Yeah. Swimming in the Atlantic through crocodiles will do that. There was no crocodiles, just to be clear, 'cause I will get caught on social media. You're in Liberia, there's no crocodiles. Like, well, they could be. - Well, they told you they're good. - Yeah, I mean, it's a thought of it. You're getting a pool, you don't think there's a shark, as soon as you're in the water you do. - All right, we'll go on back to the end of your career and the consummation of it, if you will. When you had obviously one of the greatest special outmissions of all time that we've been talking about all day with the bin Laden thing. The, first of all, what was the decision-making process, like what, or the legality of like you eventually coming public with being one of the guys, 'cause not everyone on the team is public. - No, that, that's an internal dynamic that started the second bin Laden was dead, because the first question everyone asked was who got 'em, including in the house. That was actually kind of funny, 'cause I overheard a conversation who got 'em, and he said, "Nizro," and the guy goes, "Fuck, we're never gonna hear the end of this." (laughs) So that started and then, you know, even you get back, we got back to J bed and we flipped a bog in with the body. As soon as the army took the body to dump, it's like they said they did. We went to find the CB's, they said they did. - They said they did, I don't say it like that. - I didn't see him get dumped. They told me, they told me just like they told you. I don't know. I didn't see it happen. If I didn't see it happen, maybe. - You did see the body though, right? - I killed Osama bin Laden, I saw him standing, I saw him dead, I'm gonna fuck her dead. - Okay. - That's good. - Well, the way I put it to is I shot the guy who got out of bed with Mrs. bin Laden, so he had it coming. He's getting killed that day. You know, if it ain't been lying, but if it doesn't come from someone, he's gonna be pretty pissed off. (laughs) But yeah, then we went over to the CB's because the construction battalion, maybe CB's they will have. have a pizza oven 'cause they're builders, they'll have booze 'cause they're navy. So we went there, they have internet, and then we started to see the COT6 coming up on Yahoo and all that bullshit. And guys were making phone calls and they'll call their buddies in San Diego and they'll talk to a bartender where it's like, "Hey, I don't tell anybody, but." And then my name's just out. So it was out by the time we got back to Virginia. We flew back that night and it's just out. We had a big party at COT6. We went out to the ready room, which is where they filmed the scene in Navy Seals, where Charlie Sheen, like beat up that dude and kissed him. Same bar, how fitting is that? - That's kind of cool. - He would have been admirable, but now Admiral Hawkins, Charlie Sheen, I called him to. Not after, it took me a few years to be here. He gave me the script. And I have a sign picture of him. I think he signed Admiral Hawkins on it. - Oh, that's actually-- - Yeah, I did put winning there, too. - You know what, I'm gonna send it back to him. - Yeah, put winning there. - But yeah, so then we fly back and it started to spread and we had fellows at the White House Seals and they call and say, "Hey, congratulations to me." It's like, "Okay, the word's out." And then it just sort of gets to a point where I can either say that I had nothing to do with it or pretend people don't know, or I can admit it. And then when I was working in DC, I met a congresswoman named Carolyn Maloney who represented that part of Manhattan and she said you should donate something to the memorial. And so I did. I brought-- - But she knew. - She knew that I was a shooter, yeah. And so I brought the shirt that I wore and the American flag that I wore up there and I donated to the 9/11 Memorial. And it's there now. But when I was donating it, she being a politician, 30 families are now in this room where I'm donating it so I need to tell them a story. I wasn't happy about that but they're all, they all had family members dying on 9/11. So then I'm like, okay, if anyone deserves to hear this state is served it. So I told them the story for the first time in public. - That you. - That I told them the whole thing up to where I shot them and I was told there's never gonna be closure on the worst day of my life, but this helps with the healing process, having a real name and a face to it. I had one dude had his grandson there because there's his dad, his son died because of 9/11. And the son said, or the grandpa said my grandson's always been asking, why did God do this? And I said, God didn't do this to devil to this and you sir killed the devil. It's like, first of all, what the fuck was that to say to me? But then it's like, wait, if I can help these families, I can help more. So that's when I had my, I had been taking notes. I have my journal. So I had some editors hit that. We submitted it to the Pentagon. I went to all the agencies and then they approved it. And that's my book. - And when was that again? - 2017. - 2017. - Yeah. - Okay. That's, I mean, by the way, that place over there, what they did with Ground Zero, - Oh, it's insane. - With the memorials. - You should see that every once in a while. - Not a happy place, but you need to see that. - It's not, but it's one of those things to do this day. If I am down in that part of Manhattan, you can't not stop. - You gotta go. - You can't not stop for like 90 seconds. You just stand there silent. - It's very solemn, man. - Very, very solemn. But then the museum to be able to do all that, you know, again, it doesn't bring closure or anything like that, but at least it's like. - Boy, I mean, there's a segment there where there's like five floors of the World Trade Center, five of them, but they're not even the size of that wall 'cause they were just pancakes. And they're just, it's like that. Each one of those is an office. It's in the, like, and regardless of the conspiracies, that fucking happened. - Oh yeah, it's crazy. - Some people lived through the people jumped. We talked about the single mom who dropped her kids off at elementary school, and now her later, she jumped over to death 'cause that's a better alternative than the fire inside. You know, she probably looked around for a stranger's hand. You know, and her last gesture, "Human Deeds" as he was holding her skirt. - It's one of the first days in my life that I can remember every single thing that happened and where also it being a negative event, I at least had some grasp of the gravity. Not all the way when you're like, seven, eight years old, you can't get it all the way, but like, I got it to the extent that like this, whoa, the world just changed. - At the entire world changed, that's a reset. Where were you that day? - I was in Germany, I just finished in Cosimo. I was cleaning up my gear from being a sniper in Cosimo, and then I was in operations sending emails, which weren't even that proficient at the time. And the TV came out like everybody else, I saw it on TV, and then just think, "Oh, our life just changed, everything changed." 'Cause we were gonna go home to Virginia, so we might go to Sudan, what the fuck are we gonna do? 'Cause we're going. - Did you know who it was right away? - Ben Laden was mentioned a few seconds afterwards. 'Cause we'd heard of him, I'd shit, when I went to Albania the first time, guarding an award ceremony, they mentioned Al-Qaeda and Osama Ben Laden in 1998. Like, we knew about him, you know. - He's called 9,000, yeah. - Yeah. - I mean, even in '93, the World Trade Center bombing, I was Al-Qaeda. And then he was involved with the Mujahideen in Afghanistan. He's been around. - Yeah, the Cole's one that gets forgotten about all the time. My friend, Mike Ritland, was on that one. - Yeah. - I heard the cleanup of that, I should say. Crazy. - Yeah. - And there was a one in Libya too, I think. - Yeah, well there was two emissaries. Kenya, Tanzania. - Yeah. - Yeah, there were all over the place. Everyone in Sudan for a while, they moved Afghanistan. They're not our friends. - One of the craziest stories that's like a huge what if moment that I heard was when, I forget who was telling it, but it was towards the end of Clinton's time, where it took a while, but apparently, like the Clinton White House eventually kind of got it on some of the threats. - Some of them, yeah. - Yeah, they were too serious about it. They were more of a standstill. - They literally, well they had that the way about too. But they literally were apparently just totally ignoring it for years and then towards the end, they were like, "Okay, all right, there's something here." And there was some sort of early drone footage or something else. - Yeah, when he was walking around in that was in J-Bad, yeah. That's a funny story. He was living in Jalalabad, that's where our safe house was. And we brought in, so we weren't all seals. We had Navy guys, like brand new to the Navy and they get assigned to Seal Team Six so they're running the radios in a truck. I'm not going off base, whatever. And this kid for some reason got stationed with us in J-Bad. So we're Seal Team Six shooters, that's poor Navy kid. And we're like, "Yeah, this is blah, blah, blah." And we're showing them the map to the lay of Len. And we're like, "Yeah, so that's Osam Bin Laden's house, blah, blah, blah." And then he goes, "Oh my God, did we check there yet?" And we're like, "I mean, he lived there." Yeah, we check. I like the enthusiasm. Shit, let's go check. That would have made it easy. Well, that would have been cool, there he is. That would have been worse over. Shit, he never left. Wow, crazy. But when you finish the mission and you do the after-action report, this, we were talking about this off camera a little bit before, but this is where a lot of this stuff has come public now because now you file a lawsuit as well, I believe, against some guys who have been like trying to say, your story is not real. And you've been backing up the reality, your story, because it's been out there for a long time. But when you guys did the after-action report, there's one detail that is different than what you actually put in there. Can you just explain what that was? It's like about that. See, the issue is, the after-action that we gave over Bin Laden's body was in July about. And that's when we had the entire team around his body. And the ground force commander went to Admiral McCraven and he was saying, "Here they are." And then he goes, "Oh, you want to meet the guy that shot him?" And he came over and McCraven said the same thing to me that another guy said is like, "Well, he said that's been on your life just changed forever." Whatever, it's like, "Yeah, okay, whatever." And so we do that and then we send him, we put him on a C-130 McCraven leaves. We fly him to Bagram, we put his body out here and then all of our gears going on tables. We actually, President Obama came down a red carpet, we're watching TV and he said, "Tonight, I can report to the American people and to the world, the United States conduct an operation to kill the Somban Laden leader of al-Qaeda." And that's a moment where I'm eating a breakfast sandwich. There's, I hear the president say, "Oh, Somban Laden." I look at Somban Laden. Take a bite of a sandwich and think, how the fuck did I get here from mute Montana? I'm gonna try to be a Marine. But then we go, we eat up and then we do our things with, I don't know, we go into a back room and the ground first command comes in. He said, "All right, we're gonna sit down now and we're gonna record this for history's sake." And he hits record for history's sake. Yeah, so now every shooter in the room is like, "No, what the, no." And then he takes, he hits stop and then he can tell he kinda, and then he hits record. He's like, "I, so now we're in a position like, I'm not saying the fuck thing." Like, shit goes on and you don't, you don't need to know, sir, how justice is served. So, but then we-- Were you worried about like some of the legality of like people at shot 'em late or something like that? Yeah, I, yeah, I just, I'm, me personally, I'm gonna say as little as I can. So we got to like, some guys talked about the guest house and then, I mean, the point man talked a little bit about the stairs and then it kinda just went away. And that was it. And what, and the point man said that he-- I believe what was said, I haven't heard it. I was there and I talked to a cheese about it and he agrees. It's like, this is, this is not at all. Like, one, an example of this, the way we do it at Steel Team Six is, we were hitting in Iraq in '07, like you hit a target, you find intel, hit another target, find intel. And so they're following targets. And we wanna get out of there and Iraq when I, the sun's coming up, I wanna be out. So I had my GRG out, like a career, like a quarterback does and it's right here when I got the ground force commander here at the officer. I said, here's the deal. Right now, we're in the 300 series. I wanna go back to the 100 series that we're gonna hit. And I look at him and I go, you know what? Shit, sir, you're in charge. And he goes, oh, no, make no mistake. I'm not in charge. I'm responsible. You're in charge. Don't fuck me. Meaning, get it done. Now we're in a spot where for the first time we're recording it and we're just no one saying shit. And so we agreed. The point man said something about maybe clipping him and then I finished or something like that. That's that, I think is whatever. We're done with it. So that was the recorded thing, I think, but I don't know. But you, but what you were saying back then is like you saw him. What we're saying in the debrief is he was probably hit by more than one guy and we're leaving it at that. And my thought process was I've seen, again, 11 words. I've seen guys go to, and I'm all got shot by the way. way. So she got shot some wife. Yes, somehow. I'm not going to report that either. I'm going to tell my side and leave it at that. Well, he was using her as a human shield. Possibly. I didn't shoot it though. She got hit. Yeah. Where'd you shoot him? I shot him in the face three times. And that's there's no, because I was closer to him than I am to you. And he was standing right standing. Well, for the first two, he wasn't. Yeah. First two were fast. And the reason that happens is because it's a suicide bomber like all they need to do is connect the leads on their wrist and everything goes boom fast. And so that's the he had half a second to convince me not to kill him. He didn't do it. And the point man when he came in the room had jumped on a couple of limbs. Yeah. He came in the right bombs. Yeah. And I mean, he knows what happened. If you ever hear from him, great. I hope he tells the story. That's fucking how do you talk to him? No, not. Not. I deployed one more time to Afghanistan. And no, sorry, November of 2012, because I decided I was going to get out after extortion got shut down, because my end of obligated service was January of, sorry, January of 12 was my end of obligated service. So 11 February deployed again, because we needed a backfill seniority for all the goal squadron guys that got killed. So I went to Silver Squadron, did one more deployment. And my thought process there was I came in through the front door and leaving through the front door. So I'm going to war one more time. And other guys went out and wrote books and shit. Right behind my back. Said I was doing it too. Said you were doing one. Yeah. O'Neil's getting out. No, O'Neil's writing a book. And I wasn't, but they were someone asked me that I was in Afghanistan. I got an email and then I called my command not commanding my true commander from the mission. And he said, did you just sign a book deal for $17 million? And I said, well, no, for a few reasons. One, I'm in fucking Afghanistan and it's winter to I don't think you know anything about book deals because only presidents will sign a deal for 17 million. So no, no, that's just worth getting spread about me as a moment. Whatever. And I'm not, what if not porn me? Fuck it. It isn't it is. But that's just how shit gets started. And then that eventually leads up to people saying because the lawsuit is not about who killed been long. The lawsuit is about malicious defamation of character. You cannot call me a fraud for two and a half straight years trying to ruin my business by calling people saying don't work with them because he's a fraud simply because someone's story might differ from mine in one room on one mission. Right. And by the way, and they're referring to mapus and that's yeah, but you know, you know what? But he's not doing it. He got in a guy's ear and said, trust me. And now he's gone. That's what he does every time. And if you read his book, he was behind you, right? I don't know what the fuck he was. He says his book. He does know what happened. Did you guys get along? I love the guy. You love them. It's one of the best guys there. You know what? When I look at this, when I look at this whole situation, you guys pulled off the greatest, well, literally, no, one of one of one of I think it was in that heart. The mission you pulled off would been long. No, man. It was the pilot. Let's do the job. We they got it. We just went in and took a house down. That was easy. Oh, huh. Pretty, pretty cut in the most one. And guys, you two, you kill him. It's like that's his business. Yeah. Okay. He's been watching the show. I like this. So, but what I'm saying is I've never like, I just think the whole thing's amazing. And what people did was amazing. And I always and I think about this with a lot of different military, like on military stuff I've seen over the years, I always stay the fuck out of it, like whatever. But, you know, that's what should be celebrated. The fact that it was pulled off and what it is. And to me, it's very similar to like the ultimate winning. And then it gets pulled down from within like Kobe and Shaq played together amazing. They're winning all these titles and whatever. And then they just get in their own heads. It's crazy. Same thing. Well, I checked in to seal team six red squadron, a guy by the name of Wyman Howard was in charge. He made a complete badass. And when we're getting brief as I'm thinking of how funny these guys are, I remember him saying, now when we all retire, which we will, because this is going to end, if if we work together, we're all going to be millionaires, but that will never happen. I'm like, why? And he's like, just trust me. You guys are never going to work together again. Just I don't know if it's the ego or I don't know if it's being told or special from the very first day, but me, me, me, like it's crazy. You know, there's a line that was in the office, who the fuck said it in the office, but it's so true, where he's like, I wish, I wish when we were in the good old days, we knew that those were the good old days. Wow. And I wish like for you guys, you guys could, we did, we did an 07 in 2007. I rack in the summer, we did, we're living in tents with the AC breaking, no Wi-Fi, no nothing, no, I learned how to sing the Cincinnati Bengal, the Bengal growl, the fight song because I'm sleeping, I'm sleeping in between two guys on cost, they're from Cincinnati. Like we, that's what we did. We sang to each other. And we're killing people every night. We're leaving on hell. We don't have, we can't do laundry. And we realized he's sitting with these stinky fuckers, dipping and eat crap. Like these are the best days of our lives right now. This is the best summer of your life. We're hunting people. We miss our kids. This is the best summer of my life. Maybe that's the best time in the best summer. I'll buy that for sure. Yeah. Like the good old, this singular mission of like, you guys get back to that base. You're eating your egg salad sandwich. Oh yeah. Next to Ben Lahn's body. And you guys are all sitting there. You all survived. You thought you all were going to die. I wish there could be like a moment where you guys just capture that like in a little ball that you can fucking squeeze for comfort once and a while. I'd like to realize, hey, you tell the other 22 guys. I'm down. Let's do it. Now some of you guys get along though, right? No, I talked a lot of the guys quite a bit. And then some guys just lose touch. Another thing that was said to me is heel team six is a is a locomotive going 100 miles an hour. And you can stand as long as you like. Once you get off, it's going to keep going. And that's true. And again, the guys of my mission said, that's the greatest team I've ever been a part of. Yeah. What are just stars? I mean, everything, everything, everyone's snipers, everyone's funny. Everyone's awesome. Everyone's a father. Like it's just really cool. It's great to us. I mean, yeah, it's, it's, yeah, I mean, in that aspect, what a fucking mission. We got it. We got to take an all-star team. It's unreal. But like, after, does it feel you know, that's even real now. It's like, I just know the story. We didn't do that. But I'm saying, like, once people start having different stories and making as the years go on, and then this guy says that, and that guy says that. Like, I don't think you like the trail. I don't think it's changed. It, my story has not changed. And the guy in front of me just isn't talk. And he probably never will. And then there's one guy behind you. And you don't talk with him really any. No, I'd like to. I'd love to. But no, I'll probably never talk to him again. And then the guy behind me, he just never says where. And that's the thing too, is like, I can ask, I mean, again, I have no ill will towards this team. I love this team. But I can, I can, they know that I can ask them all, okay, physically, where were you? Where were you physically when I killed Ben Laden? Where were you? And they'll know I can do that. Right. Fucking three men. The guy, the point man for the second train admits he's doesn't know what happened in that room. He knows he's dead. And we know he got shot a bunch after I killed him. But you and the point man from your room, you don't think he'll ever talk again? I'd like to, man. I, I, again, he saved my life by jumping on a fucking wall. Yeah. I, again, you will never hear me say a bad thing about him. Is that just because like he really didn't want to be public? He wouldn't know he was one of those guys. And I've known him a long time. And I've gone to war with him a lot. And we kill people in the same rooms. We've done entries together. A lot. We went up to Milan stairs together. I know him. And he was never a guy to talk. He never wanted any. He doesn't want the line light. He doesn't want any. He doesn't even want to get credit. He wouldn't want an award. He wants to do that job. And then he wants to go to his family and then live his life out like that. So that's why he stays away. Probably. Yeah. And he's a great storyteller. One of the funniest dudes I know. And I would love to say the type of story he can tell. But that would say where he's from. And I don't want to do that talk. Yeah. But man. Yeah. I mean, one of my favorites. That's cool. I mean, again, with the guys, I would assume you just say I'm like, well, that was stupid. Whatever. Not the worst thing I've seen you do worse. What's it like to walk around though after the fact? And it's out like in some bars in San Diego. It's out with some people in the government and stuff like that. But you're not out to like the to me and deep and to other people. And like, you walk into the fucking wall on people don't know like, you know, this guy first. At first it is weird. It is a weird, I mean, if you knew you'd have a question type situation or sitting with a bartender, it like when I was in Fayetteville, working with Jason. I didn't know. So I'd live in a hotel. I go to the bar and bullshit with the bartender. She didn't know the fuck I wasn't kind of like you to, I mean, that's on TV still. You know, you know, it was a funny interaction on TV. It was with my daughter who was seven was cute as shit. Cause she to this day. No, she's not a lot of talk about it. But she's sitting. We're on a couch the next week. I just got like, I just got a book from Chris Kyle. And my initial thought was I don't want to, why would I want to book from a seal? And I open it and says, great shot. Chris Kyle. I'm like, well, this is the coolest book. I don't know. And then so my daughter's here, she's not supposed to say, I'm trying to process this still. And we look up at TV. And I remember we had CNN on. I'll never forget. And they're doing viewer email. We're taking the best story of where you were when you found out in Laudan was dead. And I'm looking at it. And my daughter goes, I, dad, she's seven. She goes, you have to email them. And if you say, you're in his bedroom, you're going to get on TV. That's like that. So yeah, we're conversating. You should have sent that email. I know I should have. But I wasn't going to get out. That would have been the most savage waiting it out. I killed him bitch. I was in his bedroom. Okay. We can all agree. That's a cool. There's not going to be a lawsuit about the fact that I was in his bedroom. Oh, man. Yeah. And so you got out in 2012. 2012. Yeah. Yeah. And that was a wake-up tube because I even, so I've got my three kids. And I'm separated. But I asked the Navy, what's the extension for health care for my kids? And they said, oh, Midnight, it's over. So it's like, thanks for coming. Beat it. Wow. Yeah. I didn't, I don't have a degree. So I was like, oh, shit, I better figure out a job. Was it, was it hard to turn off from that though? Because you were in for some reason. No, it was at first, meaning the first time I got back from Afghanistan, I was driving my daughters and my wife home, and I was driving really fast and aggressive. I was like, because I was just driving in Jalalabad for the summer. And so I had a ton of talent. But then you just get, you could legit compartmentalize the fuck out of it. Just murder people then you're going to a recital. But later, like you said, it creeps up later in life, not at the time. And then you're literally competing with your friends to get more kills. But I remember one, you remember of like Halo two or one where you, there's all, but it's important to the story. When you shoot and you hear the voice go gain the lead. Oh, yeah. We saw it, dude, do that one time from Gold team. The EOD guy, explosive order disposal. EOD guys are studs at the bomb text. But a lot of times you put them on security when the South is going. So guy gets off, holding security, three dudes pop up or sleep and he blasts all the pow pow, gain the lead on the radio. Oh, my God. That's that's the best radio call in the history of radio calls. That's pretty fucking yeah. Like you got guys last time. Yeah. That's a dark ass comedy. Yeah. And I mean, to think of that, like he didn't know they were there. And then he does. And then he thinks to, yeah, I got to say, because I hear this all the time when I shoot monsters on Halo. The only difference is these problems. These three probably had families. Oh my God. So you're going through with this whole thing. Now you're trying to go to to court with this with this. Yeah. I want to take it to court. Yeah. What pushed you over the top when he said if I was lying, he'd sue me. So I sue him. And unfortunately with that comes discovery. And you have my side and you have stuff that he doesn't have. And it's just a matter of I mean, look, the truth is always good because you don't need to remember bullshit. And I'm just telling the truth. So I mean, let the chip, I don't care. Well, the fucker should have called me instead of starting a podcast. Yeah. I do wish like there'd be more. I guess like off-record conversations with the military. And the thing is we get a boy, we don't get along. Even that dude planner up there that's a plant planner. The marine that's running for Senate and Maine and he's got the horrible videos out there. Oh, is this a guy would like the knots he test to or whatever? I don't really know anything. Yeah. I mean, it's fun. Another Democrats are still leaking away from him because he's a problem. And look, again, something someone who can't make a cheeseburger should also be told, look, if someone has an anonymous Reddit account, probably not Senate material comes out. The guys have fucking clown. Yeah. But I mean, but with veterans, I said it, just have a conversation. I'm guilty of a two, man. I've said horrible shit to alcohol and Twitter. Fuck that. Yeah. That's not a good combination. So horrible combination. Another yet another update on the hand to not let you. Yeah. If you tweet enough, you will get a tattoo on your head saying when you quit drinking. The best tweets I've sent are the ones that never go out. That's the best. I tell people that I would tell my guys in combat, don't react, do respond. And the way to do that is when you get and I do take this advice every day, when you get really pissed, boy, type that fucking text, do not hit send for 24. 100%. They go 24 hours and then I delete it. Boy, it feels good though, an Abe Lincoln did that. That's a story for you. Abe Lincoln would write letters and put them in his desk. So I saw that desk. This is a good story. I went to dinner at the White House during Trump's first term. He invited, actually invited me and Pete Hegseth. And I didn't know Hegseth was in the running for Sec death, but he invited us him. So Jen Hegseth his wife and then Jessica. That's a good story too. Because I said, Hey, Jessica, we're packing overnight bag. We're flying to DC to go dinner with the president. She goes, Oh, shit. It's going to be a big dinner though, right? And I go, uh, intimate. And she goes, I'm not going to be sitting close to him. And I go, well, probably right next to him. And she said, Oh my God. What do I say? And I said, that's the good news. You won't have to say shit because he will not shut up. It's awesome. He's fun to talk to. So we go down there. Sure. Well, the first thing he said, like we get in there and the president walks and he's a funny dude. He walks up and wakes up and me and looks to go. She looks like Melania. I'm like, Oh, geez. Fuck, dude. So we sit down. But anyway, we finished dinner. It was a blast. And he said, do you want to see the Lincoln bedroom? And I said, Well, it is a 30. Yes. I want to see the list. So he looks sprints because he likes the secret service to chase him. So the way that it works is like the Pennsylvania Avenue is the smaller one. But that's where the stairs lead to the residents were the first families when you go up there. So he's right up there. I'm following the, I think the first door on the left is the Lincoln bedroom. And so he just kind of showed it to me. And I walk in because I want to see it first. Fuck Pete. I'm going to see this. Fuck the future secretary of war. And I go in and there's his bed. First thing I see is his bed is huge. And that's like where his son died. And it's like, Okay, wow. Then there's the desk. And I'm like, this is the desk. And then I see another desk. And it's on the window to the south lawn. Like you can see where they watch the fireworks. And I walk over the south lawns lit up below the desk under this glass is the Gettysburg address hand read and signed. Right? By Abraham fucking Lincoln. Now I've seen some cool shit in my life. I am officially having an out of body experience. I turn around and Trump's leaning against the door. And he goes, you know, Neil, not everybody gets to see this. Unless, of course, you donate to the Clinton Foundation. And I go, you just can't stop. I can't even enjoy this without that. And then he goes something. Again, these are my stories. He might disagree a little bit of something like he said, yeah, Mulani's mad about something. Hey, to the secret shows, take on Neil to the basement, show him where those limes started that fire in 1814. And I'm like, I don't think we even say that either. Yeah, I don't, he may not have said it in his defense because this is all for entertainment value. But I heard that. And then he took us down there is like, I was like, no shit. I had like 10, 10 glasses of Trump wine deep. I'm like, this is pretty dope. I'm drinking Trump wine in the basement, looking at the fire. Can we get a picture out front? Let's go out there. So me and Jesse got a selfie in that. Isn't that like that place? I can't even imagine being in that dude. Yeah, the capital building to the ladies cloakroom is I think haunted by John Adam ghost. What? Yeah, look at who's haunts the lady. Oh, the calvets. The DC. It's like a story. Oh, it was real. Like a real thing. I saw him. John Adams. It's something. Look up. Who's he? Like the people Tom or something? Must have been right. Yeah, there's glasses. That's been frankly something. I don't think he need like DC is great if you get away from the filth, but like the history is awesome. Yeah, the history is kind of cool. Is that John Quincy Adams? Yeah. And he was, he would famously, he would skinny dip in the Potomac and that like there was beavers out there. So that's some of the hotels. They'll sell pet for stuff. Beavers. Yeah. So just, just, just, it's, it was famous for that shit DC. He was like, bite. No, like, like, beater. No, I don't know. I think they adopted one or something. He's gonna have a dog. All right. So this is real beef? Yeah. John Quincy Adams was. So John Quincy Adams, he haunts it. Okay. But yeah, his ghost is in the cloakroom. That place is cool. God damn it. And then you go to those places where they would have the old, the old Congress. And there's like the name place for who would sit there and the gold ones became president. But there's little rooms where you can go to one side. And if you whisper, it goes to that side. So you can actually have conversations with the echo. So what politics, I can't be on shit. Dude, it's bad ass. So what politicians would do that have a, the foreigners come in. They're going to negotiate. Okay, you guys go discuss over there. And so they hear him discussing, but they're listening to everything. And then they negotiate. They know, they know, yes, DC school, the capital school, the spy museum, I guess, is bad ass. Who was, I think Joby Warck was telling me about that and said he got to go to that. Where is that in DC? That yeah, it's and it's, I don't know, but it's in DC. Yeah. Joby Warck said go there. Yeah. He's good. Yeah. Yeah. You know, Joby a little bit. Yeah. He actually, he did one of the blurbs on my book. Oh, that's cool. Not in the bed. Joby's been on the podcast three times before it's my nose. His eyes is pretty well, man. He, I mean, he wrote the fucking encyclopedia. I was with him when he was writing that. I remember that. You're with him. I wasn't helping him write it, but I was like meeting him for drinks and shit. Oh, wow. Yeah. Yeah. Good. Now, some of my guys who are like active in the military have told me that it's not like there's like a required reading list or whatever, but some of the ones who have gone to like get stationed in certain places in the Middle East. The guys there will be like, all right, read these three books and the first one's always black flags. So like this just captures like the essence, like what we're dealing with. We'll go from there. Absolutely. You got any regrets? I didn't have that glass of red wine with Rob Reeves when he said that about the helicopter. That's like one regret I have as I should have had to drink with him. The rest of them to regrets are something like now, even the fucked up shit I learned from it. So there's no point going through wishing like you don't get time back and you need to realize that. So just learn from it. Try to move on and guess what? If you do the same thing again, try not to do it. So if you're worried about shit in the past, it's just a waste of your time. Yeah, you seem like you have great clarity now. I like to think so, but again, like the advice I've given, I have to do it because I find myself flipping out because like yelling at AI because you're not telling me how to fix the OBS yelling with the demon that's running clawed. And she's just fucking because I gave her that voice. No, you can't develop the relationship with the hot clothes lady. Oh, it's so funny. It's like stop apologizing, we're not friends. I'm sorry. No, I made movies about that. I know it's real. That's not good. It's fun. All right. That's not clarity right there. Oh, yeah. But Rob, I really appreciate doing this. It's been a blast. You're a lot of fun to talk with. Yeah, like what? Obviously, very cool after all these years to finally meet you. Yeah, it is. And here it is. Oh, we'll do this again. I'm going to get you on the operator podcast. That would be awesome. I'd be honored. You got to come help me design my studio because I'm I was I was arguing with cloud about that today. So all right, Tiff now come up. Cool. We'll fix you. It's a deal. All right. All right. Thanks, sir. Everybody else you know what it is. Give it a thought. Get back to me. Peace. Thank you.