Navigating Life's Surprises: Building a Practice & Embracing Growth - with Aliza Shapiro

(upbeat music) - Welcome to Inspired To Leave, a podcast by the JWE and brought to you by Rock and Co. Focusing on Inspirational Jewish Women and Leadership. I'm your host, Talia Machia. Thank you for tuning in. I'm really excited to share this episode when I sat down with Aliza Shapiro. Aliza is a clinical therapist who grew up in Milwaukee, Wisconsin with a father who is a Roshi Shiba at Achafez Chaya, Mishiba, and a mother who traveled the world as a big tech executive. At 27 after dating for seven years, Aliza decided that she wasn't going to allow the pain of not being able to find her person, to find her happiness and her trajectory. And she shifted her outlook. And as she says, that's when amazing things started to happen. Aliza then decided to leave her job and open her own practice, which is now scaled to over three offices in different cities. Aliza gives us a window into her own challenges, what she did to shift herself. She has a tremendous amount of insight and inspiration for all of us. I hope you enjoy this episode. (upbeat music) - Hi Aliza, how are you? It's so good to see you. - Hi Talia, thank you so much for having me. I am so excited to be here and for this conversation. - And I'm so excited. Yesterday I actually recorded which is gonna come out this week. Another fell Milwaukee in. So it's like two in one week. And so it's also again, like something that we definitely share in common. And we're gonna talk about that because it is unique growing up in a city like Milwaukee. Although you stayed longer than I did. I left for high school and I know you stayed for a little bit in high school before you headed out. So we're gonna talk about that. But first I'd love for you to just introduce yourself. Tell us a little bit about what you do in your career and a little bit about yourself. - Absolutely, yeah. So first of all, I'm very excited to dive into all of things Milwaukee. Most people don't even know that about me. And when they hear that I'm from there, they're shocked. They're like, you're not a New Yorker. I'm like, no guys, I'm a savior. I'm from the city. But I'm a Lisa, I'm a therapist. I have a private practice in New York city and a couple of other states. We have offices in New York and in Florida. And we actually launched our LA team today, or sorry, last week, which has been really exciting. And I feel like I wear two hats. I wear the therapist hat. And now I wear the business owner hat which is very exciting for me. And in addition to that, I really spend a lot of time on social media, bringing up topics around mental health, normalizing it, normalizing conversations around therapy, conversations about personal struggle, personal growth. So I spent a lot of my time writing and doing that as well. - Okay, so now we're gonna talk a little bit about how you grew up. So Aliza has incredible parents who I know. And actually we have grandparents that live in Chicago also. And your father, incredible special person, who learned with my father for a really long time and really inspired him in so many ways. He was, my father was so fond of him and was really special connection for the family. But I love the fact that, and I'll let you share it, but that your father is a reby in Huffett's time in Milwaukee and your mom's like a big corporate executive. It's like super cool. So I just remember hearing about it from like the outside, but I want you to share it with all of our listeners, what it was like growing up in a family like that and kind of what your world was like and a little bit about your siblings too. - Absolutely, and it's so funny that you're saying that 'cause your dad was such a part of our household too. And he was always like, "Hey, Mr. Jasmine, Mr. Parker, "and they're coming for dinner. "We're doing this, we're going out here." And they were just such a part, or we ever had like a legal question. It's like, I'll ask them, I'll ask them tonight. So your dad is such a, was such a special person and such a part of our family also growing up. So this is really full circle that, you know, you and I can connect and we have both of these two people from our childhoods who have known each other so well and we're such an integral part of each other's life. But yes, you hit the noun that had my dad. My parents are very special people, but I don't think I grew up in a typical family as it pertains to work. And like mom, role, dad, role, all of that. My father is, like you said, a rabbi. - He's really Rocha Sheva. He's one of the Rocha Sheva, right? - Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he was the assistant principal and yeah, he is an incredible, like scholar and academic and brilliant, brilliant man. And that was his passion teaching and educating and that was and is what he does all day long. And my mom on the flip side was jet setting around the world, like working with banks and she was always here there everywhere. A project in Hawaii, a project in Tel Aviv, you know, it didn't, now she's working on a project in Arkansas. So she was always all over the world. And I grew up with her and my memories of her have really been like pre-yantif, like cooking so many things like right before, like the buzzer of candlelating, but like on meetings. You have to be quiet in the kitchen because there were meetings going on. And there were like four screens, phones, Tom, Tim, Bob, like Yajaloo, we're all talking everybody, like people in India, people here there, we knew all their names. They were part of our family. And that was my mom. She was cooking and she-- - What was her job? - She is, she's still working, yeah. - She's still working, yeah. So she works, her company does consulting basically for tech projects for banks around the world. - Very cool. - So they introduced new tech to banks. - Okay, so when your mom was jet setting around the world and you have how many siblings? - I'm one of five. - Okay. - Three sisters and a brother, right? - Exactly, three sisters and one of me, then me, then baby brother, - I hear it's a big brother. - So when your mom was jet setting around the world, how was life at home with like taking care of you guys and getting to school and packing lunches and everything else? - So funny that you say packing lunches, we were just talking about this over a young diff. My mom always managed to pack us lunches. Even when she-- I don't even know how, 'cause she wasn't home, so I don't really know how to make magic happen. But there was always a beautiful like, handwritten like Alisa on my paper lunch bag. If it was a first day of school, there was always a note in there. There were always like special prizes, so she always managed to do that somehow. But it was really nice, 'cause my dad was able to be around. And he worked five blocks from the house and he could come between Sheeram and things like that. He was able to be there. He was able to meet us when we got off the bus or there was a babysitter slash nanny. And that was definitely a bigger part of my upbringing for many years in my life when my mom was at work. And so what always fascinates me and I think your mom's for sure are gonna be listening to this, I'm sure. I think when our children choose a similar path, 'cause there's a lot of guilt which comes with, although maybe I'll interview your mom next for a podcast, but I think sometimes women that are working, especially those types of traveling and those hours, sometimes can have guilt for feeling like that maybe they weren't always there and the way that they needed to be for their children. And we always talk about quality versus quantity. And definitely sounds like from your, do you say, oh, my lunches were always packed and that it was quality. And what really is telling though is if their daughters, I think especially follow their footsteps and go into big careers. So clearly, talk a little bit about how you grew up in a life seeing your mother have a big career and that inspiration for you as well as your sisters. She taught me everything I know without trying to teach me anything at all. She always said to us like, guys, you need to relax. Don't do what I did, like don't work so hard, relax and it's like hilarious, because me and the rest of my siblings, we all work very hard. My oldest sister, she runs a five-inch person summer camp in the summer in addition to her actual job of being a school psychologist. This is Jibanit that got her, got two masters and now works like a really great job at the board of ed running who knows what for so many burrows. My sister beneath that also has her own practice and she employs social workers, OT is PT. So she also did her thing and my brother too, he's successful in his business too. And I think that we all just kind of picked up on this incredible work ethic that both of my parents have in different ways. I would actually say I'm really similar to both of them. Maybe even a little bit more to my dad just in the sense that he's a big introvert. Like I could read a book and be happy for the rest of my life just like reading a book in my corner. But my mom is always out there, has always been moving and shaking. And that was just a normalized part of life. And it's actually if you step and think about it, it's not so normal for moms to be raising a family but also really hustling and really climbing corporate ladders. And she never did it in a sense of I'm climbing the corporate ladder. It was just her job and what she did and she did it really well. But she embedded that into us. Like we always laugh about her work voice whenever we were in Carpool and we were driving home or wherever we were and she was there on the phone. She was like put on this work voice and we also always used to like imitate her. Work voices on, like Bob, we don't care about result. And then we all became the exact same thing. So we really quality versus quantity and also what you get to your children just in who you are and what they see and what gets normalized for them. Like I don't think I would be who I am today If I didn't have it. have a role model like that that gave me this underlying message of you can do things that are different. You can do things that are bigger. You don't have to fit yourself into a box. You don't have to have a small career. You can do things like this. I really wouldn't be the same without that. I'm sure your mom's going to love hearing that. And what about enough? So any of your sisters marry anyone who's in a thing of after your dad or your brother like any that part of it. I mean, obviously education, it sounds like they took from your father. Yeah. So every single daughter and the family except for me married a guy in Khenrich, which is wild. And they kind of, I guess, repeated that really special line. And, you know, what Kha'evitschheim really believes in, which is let the husbands be educators and make big differences in care of Kroven and make big impacts in communities and whatnot. And my oldest brother-in-law's principal, they're all in Khenrich and they're all doing incredible things. And they're all in Khenrichheim. So also Kha'evitschheim is very strong. It tends to continue down. They veered a little bit. They don't all teach Khenrichheim school anymore, but they've definitely followed that path of of Khenrich and also some of them work on the side as well. So it's, it's an interesting mix, but they definitely followed that path. And yeah, or echoing what my dad kind of embedded in our psyches too. That's awesome. So tell us a little bit about your practices. How many people you're managing? So you talked about the multiple locations. And I know that you jet-set between LA and New York. So just kind of talked us a little bit more about the responsibilities and the challenges and what you're doing in your career. So it's been really, it's been a wild three years, I guess, at this point, which is so funny to think about. So there are 18 people working in the practice now. Most of the clinicians are based in New York, a couple are in Florida. And like I guess we just started our LATM. Like I also mentioned earlier, like I'm a big introvert, I'm a homebody, I'm not the kind of person that would ever see myself jet-setting around the world. That's not my nature. It's so not my nature. My nature is to be in bed for as many nights as I possibly can in the same place. But here we are. And it just kind of happened this way. And yeah, I go back and forth between LA and New York, not even to see my clients at this point. It's really to manage the team and make sure everything is going smoothly and to make sure there's appropriate growth where there needs to be. And problems are being solved and people are feeling supported. Pop into Florida now and now and then too. And it's been an interesting exercise in personal development. Because like I said, it's not my nature. It's not comfortable for me. I don't think I'll be doing it this way forever. I might, I might be surprised, but I might not. And it's been just a really interesting way of learning how to push my own boundaries and having the goal and the vision kind of come above everything else and my own comfort come secondary. Because it's okay to be uncomfortable. That's what we do especially in the beginning years of starting a company and entrepreneurial ship. Like you have to do that. And that's very much the phase that I'm in right now. Like I'm just saying yes to every single thing that I can. I am going everywhere that I can if I have the space and the opportunity. I'm going to do it. And it's a lot of movement, a lot of travel. But I know it's going to pay off and it has been paying off. And I'll tell you I think that there's a lot of young girls that will go into the various different types of therapy and profession. One of the things I really want to be able to share in this episode and get from you and your story is kind of going from I'm going to be a therapist and in a lot of people think about that as a role that's great for being a wife and a mother. Because they could have flexible hours and probably most don't think about it in terms of while I can actually do more than what that hourly time is right. So your calf from a salary perspective in terms of how much time when you're a single therapist and what you've managed to do is to become a therapist and a scale right to scale it to a business that is you can make a lot more than the time you know the amount of time you have you have 24 hours in a day seven days a week and of that how much you see patients and if you're only getting paid for that then that caps how much someone can make is a therapist. You you figured out is how can I make a significant amount more money an unlimited amount more money as a therapist by being able to build a practice higher other people bring it into multiple cities which I think is just again a a potential option for for those to even be able to hear and think about. So I would love to just dig into that a little bit and just really start with and I so appreciate your openness and vulnerability and that because I think that there's a number of people that are also in similar situation that you had shared that originally that wasn't necessarily your plan. Yes. And that really when you were 20 years old you started dating and your goal was really to get married and have a family and also to be a therapist to be able to have flexibility to do exactly that is to be able to be there. So tell us a little bit more about that and sort of how it wound up and how you wound up here and how that feels. Yeah. So as you're saying that it's really funny one of the things that popped into my head is I remember when I was deciding what track to go on like should I get my PhD my ID clinical social work everyone said if you're a clinical social worker you will make no money and they weren't wrong in the beginning I made no money I made less than $50,000 a year living in Manhattan like that's ludicrous but that's what I did and that's really what they said and then I remember speaking to all my professors trying to make this decision and I don't remember who said it to me but somebody said to me if you have a good name it doesn't matter what your title is you can make it anyway as a therapist and I think that stuck with me because I I made it my mission not to have a good name as in reputation but to have a good name as in I'm an educated continue to educate myself professional that really puts my all into not just being a therapist but into being a really good one that stays relevant that uses evidence-based practice that has my own supervision that just really puts the science before everything and develop my professionally and clinically before everything but I think that that really set the stage for having a career that wasn't just your average therapy career I really made it my my mission to excel not to be excellent but to excel in my career and not just look at it and it's like okay I'm just looking to be a therapist like I really made it my mission to be a very very good one and I think that was the framework that I started out on and then like you said it my life didn't go my way my life really didn't go my way I was my number one mission was to have a family okay I'm not gonna cry but I might if I do have to forgive me I'm a therapist we do feelings you know what it is my number one mission was to get married and have I have a family and my number two mission was to have a great life in an abundant career and all those things but it wasn't number one and then when it kept when my life kept moving in a direction that was just not what I had planned I had to ask myself really serious questions about how I was going to fill the gaps of what I wanted and what I didn't yet have and as I started realizing that when I was 25 26 then I was 27 I had a moment where I had to really just make a decision to continue kind of like almost suffering from this recognition that I didn't have the life that I wanted didn't have a husband I didn't have kids or to say this is just not where Hashem put me right now and I can make a different decision about what the rest of my life can look like and to not wait for something external to make me feel ready for happiness and ready for goodness and greatness and feeling those ways but to say I'm gonna have it right now even though this is not the path or the timeline that I would have chosen and I had a moment when I was 27 where I had to like really make that pivot and once I did it changed a lot for me I would say it was in those years that I really started shifting my role at my last job and instead of just doing clinical therapy I started helping out with operations I started helping out my boss just being his personal assistant with whatever he needed taking notes for the company sitting in on meetings for supervisors and for bigger programming and eventually they asked me to be the VP of people in culture I was already in everything it was already doing everything then they just asked me to formally step up to the plate in that role so I was running hiring and people management and operations and everything for all of our offices across New York and Boston I don't think that that them offering me that role is what changed my trajectory I think it was the internal decision that I made to have an incredible life even though it wasn't the timeline that I wanted that opened up that opportunity for me and then once that happened things just started to really kind of catapult in a very different direction wow well thank you very much for sharing and being so open because again there are so many people in that similar situation and probably feel very alone and your advice and what you shared in the strength that inner strength where do you think you found that inner strength that 27 to realize that you had to kind of decide for yourself what was going to be even if it wasn't in especially as an orthodox Jewish woman and for you also not just an orthodox Jewish woman you're also comfortable with a couple of times family you know you shivish family and that's even more probably sort of pressure if you know girls are not married by the time they're you know even 23 24 but certainly obviously 25 26 27 and I'm sure it was a lot of dating and a lot of different guys that you want up you know you probably have the best stories you can probably do a whole podcast and all the guys that you date at another time and I think that you had sort of it sounds to me like you had a decision to make of how you were going going to go forward. What do you think was that inner strength for you that was allowed you to sort of, I love how you said it, is you had to choose your own happiness versus what I think a lot of other people get caught up and they become more bitter and sad. And then obviously that doesn't help them in terms of dating and looking for a relationship. Yeah. So I think, first of all, sometimes strength feels and looks a lot like weakness. I wouldn't say that I felt strong when I was doing it. I think I actually felt very weak. I think I felt like I was at a point where like my emotions weren't working for me anymore. I wasn't thriving. I wasn't getting what I wanted. I wasn't doing all the things according to the way I wanted to do them in the timeline that I wanted to do them. And I think I felt weak. And the second thing that people say is that we change when the pain of staying the same, outweighs the pain of a different future. And that was really like what I was in. I was like what I'm feeling right now isn't working for me. Trying to do this thing over and over again, just get married and then find my happiness. I'll find my person and then I'll be okay. It wasn't working for me. And I needed to let go of that control. And I needed to let go of this idea that I ran my life and I knew best. And again, it didn't feel like strength. It felt like almost like cracking open. And when I cracked open, I was like, I just, I don't know. I don't know what my future is going to be. I don't know what it's going to look like. I don't know when it's going to happen. I don't even know if it's going to happen. Like we can believe something's going to happen and still not know that I think that's honestly what belief is all about when we don't know and we still have hope. And in those moments, when I just kind of had to like break this idea that I controlled my future and as long as I dated enough or the right way or I perfected myself in a certain way, I would get what I wanted. When I realized it didn't work that way, I opened up a whole different side of me. And I recognized like, okay, if that's not my time, if it's not my time right now to have that, I'm going to make the most of exactly what's in front of me. And I'm going to pull from different strengths, trusting that this is going to be a part of the story. How are your parents throughout this process for you? If they are really amazing people, I call my mom like six times a day. And I call my dad whenever I need a cry. So it's like, they're both really there for me. I think they, like you said, they just had a different, all my siblings kind of had a different trajectory than I did. My little brother has a bunch of kids, you know what I'm saying? It's like I'm 32. And so I think they, they recognize that my path was just going to be different, but they never made me feel different. And they were always just there for me. And I can speak to them and I still do speak to them whenever like a big emotion or even like a crisis that a Luna comes up. Like I, I know I can speak to them and call them. And they're really supportive in all the ways, which is a big blessing. It's a huge blessing and amazing. And do you think that maybe part of their support and help was allowed you at 27 to have that turning point? Was it things that they were kind of whispering in your ear about how to have an outlook? Or was that something you felt came from another source or from your own even work as a therapist, I wonder? It's actually a really big testament to all my siblings too. They never made me feel like an outsider. Like you don't have kids, you don't understand. I was always just like in it with them exactly at the stage and at the level they were, even though I'm absolutely not in the stage of life that they are. My sisters are some of my best friends. My brother, I can call him whenever I have a question too. So my family has just always been a very strong backbone for me. Again, just the feeling when you're not married and you want to be here, when you don't have kids, when you want to have kids is you feel very othered. And either your community or your family eradicates that feeling, they're like, you're not another, you're not othered. You're the same as us, you're just not, you're not, you don't have that box checked off yet, but you will. And they did an amazingly beautiful job of that. Like I'm thinking about it now probably for the first time. I never felt different. I just always felt like, okay, my kids aren't born yet, but they'll be friends with your kids as soon as they are kind of thing. And then certainly my work as a therapist, I would not, I think I'd be a mess. It wasn't a therapist. It's really, it's been a very grounding profession because you're constantly in a state of self-reflection and growth. If I think if you're being a therapist in the most authentic and like well-developed way. Do you have like single girls from the Jewish community as patients do you hear? And I was also very much, I'm very passionate about helping, should I flim and it just feel like it's such a pain for families and for, you know, I don't like to call them singles. I like to call it daters that if you just need to do more of as a community to help. And just in that experience that I've had so far and working with people, there's just such a tremendous amount of pain, especially in our community, because of exactly what you said is there is this trajectory that everyone assumes they're supposed to go on and it's the same for everyone and it's not. And that creates so much pain. So what are you kind of hearing and taking it into career? You can be like this example, which is amazing for other women, but pulling back in sort of the career aspect of it, because you looked at it as, okay, I can now create opportunities that I may not have. So I want to get to that. Next is just sometimes being able to have like investing within themselves and our entrepreneurship or career other things like what's to review or take and wear direction, not just for yourself, but where you guide other young women in this similar situation. I'm a big believer that waiting should not look like what we think it looks like. A lot of people look at waiting as just sitting on their hands and saying as soon as it arrives, I'll be ready for it. But that's what waiting is. I don't think that's what waiting should be. And that I made that choice to not have that as waiting in my own life. Waiting is I have energy and open space in front of me. It's not being filled the way I wanted it to be filled. So I'm going to fill it in a different way that wouldn't necessarily be my first choice, but would be very meaningful for me. And that's really what I did. I had a lot of time. I had a lot of energy. I had a lot of head space. I filled it with, first of all, my in my last job before I started my private practice, just taking on so much there and really just kind of doing different things that I never thought I would do as a therapist and really building out my skill set in business and people management in operations and in so many different arenas. And then I took that and I put that into my own life. I don't think there's any way I could have done that if I was newly married or young mom. I don't think I even would have had the wherewithal to think to do that. And so I use that blank space as an opportunity to figure something else out. And I talk a lot about that with the people that I work with. Because I work with people who are single at 24 and it feels like a crisis, 34, it feels like a crisis. And honestly, and people in their 40s too. And the common theme that I really speak about is nobody is coming to save you. There isn't the savior out there that is going to come and give you the happiness that you deserve to have right now. The guy will come, hopefully, and we don't have control over when or how or what that's going to look like. But the happiness is something that can happen in here, even before that arrives. You might not feel complete. And that's okay. A lot of us don't feel complete all the time, especially if there's something that's a part of our value system that we want and we don't yet have. But that doesn't mean you don't get to feel happy. So I speak a lot about what we do in the waiting and instead of just kind of sitting back and putting our power and our happiness in somebody else's hands, bringing it back into our own hands. Lisa, I think you could have your own podcast. Seriously. This is like, have you done any kind of things for young, single women in terms of just talking and you're so inspiring? It's very kind. And I appreciate that. I do a lot of one-on-one work. That's really where my work is. I'm open to it and I'm happy to and I actually speak on a lot of panels. So it definitely comes up, but I think I thrive in the one-on-one because there is so much pain around it and people really do need to hear it. And the flip side, which isn't as inspiring, is helping people understand that they can validate their pain. Like, it is a really, really hard part of life and really hard parts of life continue to exist and continues to exist for me in other ways. Like, right now I'm grappling with, I don't have kids and I want it. I really want to have kids. Right? So there's pain that comes up there and you need to kind of hold the same idea. And I think for a lot of us in life and other stages in life that happiness is not about life going according to the timeline that you want it to go according to. It's, it's realizing what is in front of me. This is my reality. And what can I develop or create that I didn't necessarily realize I could develop or create in the here and now with the resources and the time that I do have? It's a running theme. And I think it's an important one with so many people, both who are in the dating world and in other areas or periods of waiting in their own lives. Yeah. It's like, I think everyone has their hard. Yeah. You know, you don't always get to choose your hard. Yeah. But everyone has their hard. Right? What, you know, those married kids not in and there's different types because I think there's the external view of the community looking in as, okay, you're married, you have kids and then they're not looking beyond that. Right? Unless there's something more obvious. So when you're not married or have kids, then it looks very, you're kind of dealing like you said, it's being the other. Yeah. Right? The different one. But those that are married and have kids have hard to. So I think your advice of what you're saying holds the same is which hard is that. And now we're struggling as a community as a lot of young people are getting divorced. Yeah. Which is a big challenge. And why is that? And is that also about Okay, now there's experience the hard and I almost feel like your advice you were saying before in terms of This is your situation. It's about you to make it your happiness You know, obviously there's exceptions to certain relationships You shouldn't be in but I think there's a lot just in terms of your Advice and your really inspiration here is we each have to Create happiness for ourselves and no one else is gonna create that for us no matter what the life circumstances are Exactly exactly and sometimes the world can see your pain and it's because of something objective That's lacking in your life or not going right in your lake and sometimes the world can't see your pain in a sense That that's its own level of heart because you're dealing with it kind of in your own little vacuum and that's really painful too But yeah, the same message is apply one of the things that I've kind of found as a theme of a lot of the women that I've Interviewed for this podcast and just in general women who are in leadership roles within business Is that they tend to have a good outlook on these types right that there's a certain amount of confidence whether they initially had it or they had to develop it Often from supportive families that their parents told them you can do anything you want to do You've got people around you with that positive energy telling you You're grinder being able to take the hard whatever that hard is and everyone has their hard and push through it and Sort of have this outlook that you're describing that was like your turning point But of my life's gonna be what I make it so I'm gonna be proactive about what I do Versus reactive and waiting for things to come to me and reacting to them And you've kind of talked about this too. Just even in businesses I'm gonna take every opportunity. You're taking every opportunity that comes your way and some of those won't pan out and some of them could be really big But also those who kind of wind up with a bigger life I feel like you and I like to think that I try to do the same as There's opportunities that come our way and they're scary because they might not work or they're uncomfortable or they're risky and you're comfortable and Being able to have the mentality that when there's an opportunity I'm gonna go after it even if it's scary even if it's risky even if it might not work out and it may fail Okay, but better than be in the arena and fail then sit on the sidelines and I love the line of would you ever look back and Wish what would you say that would you wish you at least tried and even if you didn't wind doing it or that you never tried it all And I think we all learn from the experiences that didn't work out sometimes more than the experiences that did work out I'm like I even thinking about when I was first married my husband and I we had He was in music and I wanted to be more around for my family and Well, but I love the business part - and I'm like let's try so like we try to music store Did you know lost money on that we did concert production really hard totally people took advantage of us being So young I have such stories about that, but what I learned a lot of how to handle myself and how to deal with Adults even you know when I was 20 and they didn't take me seriously I could list out the you know beginning small businesses that just didn't and I learned something for each one of them Yeah, absolutely Well, I had no idea about that that's so interesting, but I I completely agree. I think one of the Themes that has been my work as an anxiety therapist, but also as a naturally anxious person Because I really am I'm wired anxious and that's totally okay I've had to learn this theme of when you can't beat fear do it scared it has been my motto and I have started to look at fear Not as a signal that you need to like run away and protect yourself because that's what fear tells us to do It says don't do this thing. There's risk involved. It's scary. You're going to outside your comfort zone You might get hurt. Don't do the thing. That's what our natural action urge is when fear comes up and I've learned to view it instead as Oh, this is good. This is something outside of my comfort zone This is something that I should actually approach not avoid and Obviously within reason like it has to make sense the risk can't be too great But if it's an emotional fear and you're worried about taking on something greater than what you already know That's usually a signal that you're about to burst forth into some next like sphere of the business or of your life So you got married two years ago, right? Yeah, so how excited was or all your family and your friends when you got engaged over the moon over the moon You know it was a long time coming and it was very beautiful and very excited and now that you're married is it a little more Like you can you kind of see now you got at least the first part of what you wanted and yeah now you're looking back and where you are in your life Does it all sort of come together for you in terms of okay? This was Hashem's plan for me and had I you know meeting me particularly your husband Maybe you wouldn't have met him if you is 22 the career that you have a way in which by the way you I could totally tell I'm sure you've helped so many people already in their lives, but I could tell you're gonna help so many more and have such a big impact in terms of Just everything you've shared today. It's amazing and so incredibly inspirational. That's so sweet. Thank you so much But without a doubt do I pretend to know exactly what Hashem's plans were? No, absolutely not But I actually think what is coming up for me the most with that question is less even about like the career that I started and more about Learning what's meaningful for me and learning what gives me actual joy and fulfillment that I don't think I would have ever had and it's Wild to think about if I would have not had this waiting period I may never experience this level of Joy and fulfillment that I get to experience every day in building this business In training new therapists and in being the therapist that I am today. So Yeah, on the surface it's incredible. I have this business and a beautiful thing that I could be immersed in But much more deeply than that. I don't know if I would have ever got to have this feeling of this is what drives me This is what I wake up in the morning excited about and from that and I think like what I want to go through the pan again No, but do I understand and am I grateful to Hashem that I'm able to have this now a thousand times? Yes So what's the future for you like where do you see this all going? So funny I was at somebody's house the other night and he made us go around in the circle and talk about our five-year plans And You know like in the first stage of a business. It's like there's no such thing as a five-year plan. There's like let's get to tomorrow Let's get to tomorrow without a crisis and let's get to tomorrow with the next stages of whatever needs to happen So I feel like the first two years of the business were that I have an incredible business mentor that actually thanks to you I work with every single month her name is Pessie Rayman That was going to be my next question your mentor, so you would like to get perfect. Let's talk about that She oh my gosh. I don't know where I would be without her. I call her in every crisis and She messages me if I haven't met her that month and it's like Lisa. What are you doing? We have to meet we have to talk about Q2, you know, so she's been an incredible person for me to bounce things off of because I don't Besides for my like Tifa and what I talk about with Hashem and besides for what I talk about with my husband like I don't really have other people that I Speak about this with in the day-to-day in terms of growth and development and I have her and it's such a blessing I'm so grateful for you for making that connection That's really JWE because yes, you was in my cohort in our group and then I got to know her through that and Then it was JW conference and then so I'm so glad. We're so lucky to have that Yeah, so big big plug for JW and and for you. I remember I called you I remember when I had just quit my job. I was in my like first three month period. I was panicking I'm like what did I just do? I was making such good money. I loved my whatever I was going through it and then called my mom and she's like You need to speak to Talia Machiaf because she is gonna help you just like stop panicking because you can figure this out And your Jewish woman and you can start a business and there are other people who have done it and you just need somebody to talk to you And so she set me up with this meeting with you I was Talia. I was shaking. I was so nervous. It's me too. I had all my notes written out all my questions I remember everything you said I took down my notes and at the end you're like you need a mentor I think you should reach out to this woman pesty rateman and I'm like okay And immediately I sent her the email, you know, and and then here we are So that's by the way one of these things what we were just talking about before like take every opportunity I remember saying to her I'm like who and I had to be talking to Talia Machiaf like She's stuck into touch. My mom's like you email her right now and so I did and then we had that amazing conversation Then you just on whim set me up with pesty now. I speak to every month like that's one of these stories where you take every opportunity and you never know where it's gonna lead you But so for the first I would say like six months to a gear of of my business I remember speaking to pesty and I'm like I don't even really know if I want to do this like maybe I'm just gonna like These two hires that I have like they'll stop working for me eventually and little go back to just being a a private therapist And she's like okay sure and eventually like the third or fourth time that I said that and at that point I think had like four or five employees. She's like a Lisa you're in the game now Like you're already here There's no quitting you have arrived and you are doing this thing So that was just like a really first like big pivotal moment So I would say in terms of my future like that was the first step I needed to say like I'm doing this and I'm trying to build a company I don't know where it's gonna go but I'm trying to build a company And then the first two years were really that like trying to build a company with structure and organization and procedures and processes and and handbooks and admin, all of that. And now I feel like we're in a really good groove and I would say the next steps of what I'm trying to do is, 'cause my mission and the mission of the practice is to bring quality evidence-based therapy to as many cities and communities as we can. Because there's therapy and then there's good therapy and I'm not trying to sit on any high horse. Like I just really believe that there's, I've spoken to so many people who are like, I've been in therapy and it hasn't worked and like, well, what have you tried? And then the things that they tell me, I'm like, that's talking, but that's not real therapy. So let me help you get real therapy. And then people have totally different experiences and therapy really can transform real life, it really can and I'm a believer in that. So again, my mission is to bring quality evidence-based care. That's personal, that's culturally relevant. You know, that's attuned to the Jewish community and to all communities and provide services in the ways that actually get people from point A to point B, whether that's with a goal or with introspection or whatever it is that they're coming to therapy for. And the next steps of my career path, ideally in a perfect world, would be to really keep growing the offices and growing the communities and the cities that we serve. - I have so much from that, everything is that. So first of all, I'm so glad that I was able to do something to help you and I want, and hopefully I wasn't as scared as we were. - More scared, I was just scared. But a lot of people are, by the way, I remember also totally some of the people that I was so afraid to speak to and just being able to ask them. I'm like you, prepared everything, how to say it, if I wrote an email, I checked it multiple times, read it over again, and a lot of people are just scared and they never even went. So good for you that you wound up reaching out that you did it because I think a lot of people are scared to even ask. I always say, "What's the worst case?" Someone says they can't. But most people, when you're someone who appreciates someone else's time, and you're gonna do something with it, then most people help. So my mentor, really early on, was a guy with a name of Ed Chen, who happened to be like a director of catering at the Hilton Chicago. A lot of people know him. And one of the bigger businesses that I started with my husband was that we service the hotels for all their customers with all their event needs outside what the hotel did. And I was called every week 'cause he knew the hotel so well and he was a great businessman and a good person. And I would have my list of questions and I would ask him. And he was such a huge impact for me of having a mentor during that time. But I always like, "Why do you give me this time?" You're so busy. I don't pay you. Why are you giving me this time? And I remember him saying like, first of all, it was fun for him. I call him on his drive-in for like 45 minutes in the city. So he had someone to talk to, but he said that there's like a tremendous amount of fulfillment for someone who's kind of learned all these things and then has a way to sort of pay it forward. But to someone who actually is going to take it and do something with it. I remember him telling me that. And so he enjoyed it almost as much as I enjoyed it because of that. And I could appreciate that now being on the other side of it where I'm mentoring other people and helping. I'm so happy to do it when people, like especially for those who take it. And then they like hearing the story of you saying just that small conversation you and I had and one introduction that was no big deal for me to make and how that completely changed. And now look what you're going to do to impact the world. So I think most people feel that way. And I'm sure you now feel that way and you'll pay that forward also to others in the future. And so it's just really an encouragement about asking for help. And also I get it preparing for those things. And it could be nerve-wracking, but they're just people like everyone's just human. And the worst thing is people say is no. - Yeah, and I really try to take that into every opportunity that I have. If I'm scared, it probably means I should do it. And the worst thing that could happen is they ignore me or say no. And if that's the case, so be it. But more often than not, people do say us. And you don't know exactly where those yeses are going to lead you. And I think that's the excitement of it too. - Let's go to our questions. So yeah, first one for you is when you think back, what would you say is your greatest accomplishment so far? - I'll give it a personal, like a personal development thing and then also I'll give it tangible. Personal development, I think my greatest, I don't know if I've accomplished it, but I'm working to accomplish it every day is in my work as being a leader. And that's a whole different skill set that they don't nobody teaches you. Like being a leader is not about anything that you think it is. I think it's about listening and it's about sticking to your vision and it's about making hard choices with hiring and it's about curating a solid team of people that feel like they really align with the mission. And it's about like regulating your own emotions so that every day you show up the people that work for you. They see this energy and they want to have the same energy. So I've been doing a lot of my own work in the leadership realm and I think that that's been my main focus and one of the pieces of feedback that I do get from a lot of people both who work for me and who have been in and out of the practice in various ways is that we have curated a really powerful team. And so to me, that feels like the biggest accomplishment. Honing in on my own leadership, traits and skills and still growing in that realm. But then being able to create a team that kind of emulates like a very similar energy and is really all there for each other and is passionate about building the brand too, which is what I'm aiming to do. So I would say that is a kind of personal development level of big accomplishment. I think practically one of my most tangible biggest accomplishments was hiring my first person because that was the scariest thing I ever did. And I didn't want to do it. And I called my sister Panicking beforehand and I'm like, who am I? Who am I to be hiring this person? She's putting her career in my hands, like, what am I doing? And she said back to me, Lisa, like, you're you. Of course you should be doing this. And that was just all I needed to hear. And I'm like, oh, okay. I guess I'm going to send the contract now and kind of jumping over that first hurdle was so terrifying. Talia, you have no idea how scared I was to do it. And it really broke me into this next level of being able to think about my business in a new way. And then honestly, since then, I would say the first, like, year or so after I heard that first person I did zero recruiting, none. And people just started, like, coming to the practice and sending me the resumes. And I'm like, how do you even know who I am? How do you know that I even have a practice? Like, why do you want to work for me? But okay. And that's how a lot of my, the initial people on my team just started started working for me. So I would say tangibly, that was my biggest accomplishment. And on the flip side, what would you say was your biggest mistake? That's a good question too. I have made many. (laughs) I think one mistake that I could have made, that thing that I didn't make, was before I started my practice, I consulted with a lot of people, including a different mentor that I had who I still speak to all the time. And a bunch of other people who knew my position at my last company, and they told me not to go my job. Every single person without fail. Actually, my mom was neutral. She didn't say don't quit your job, but it's because she didn't want me to work so hard. But every other person said give it one more year. Trust try one more year. And I woke up one day. Well, it was a whole story, but I had to actually quit twice. Because the first time I quit, they're like no. We're gonna give you a different job and you're gonna stay. So the second time where I was like this just, this isn't feeling right. I know I could stick it out for another year, but I'm exhausted and I'm burnt out and there's something more for me out there. I listened to that voice despite what everybody else had told me, and thank God I did. Just on so many levels. So that could have been a mistake that I made, but I didn't make it. That's like something that a lot of people do make that mistake. Yeah, just because everybody's telling you something, it doesn't mean it's right. Yeah, it's just a way to sort of take in their information and help it to make your own decision. Exactly. And if you have a little voice inside of you that keeps saying the same thing, even if you try to ignore it, you do need to pay attention to it. 'Cause it might be telling you something very valuable. So does that count? Yeah, we'll count that. What would you say your superpower is? Ooh, you're hitting you with some good ones today. I think that my superpower is being an empath. And as an empath, obviously that helps me as a therapist because I can generally speaking pick up on what people aren't even telling me in the things that they're telling me, but also as a boss and somebody that's building out a company, I'm trying to do it from a place of not what can I get most from the people that work for me, but what can I create in an environment, in a workplace environment that would make them feel the happiest, but they wanna stick around the longest. And obviously like retention is a really big deal in the therapy world. And I try to bring that empathy as a leader and as a business owner to create an environment where people do want to not just stay but also thrive in the practice. So empathy, if that counts, definitely. Okay, my last question for you is, what would you tell your younger self? I would tell my younger self to not worry so much because things pan out way more beautifully than we could imagine. And I think that anxiety for me and for a lot of people comes when, like we were speaking about, life isn't going according to plan, but in reality it's not going according to plan because there's such a greater plan for you that you couldn't possibly comprehend right now. And I would tell myself that and I would say it's not just gonna be okay, it's gonna be better and you just don't know what that looks like which is why it feels scary. And to just kind of like enjoy life in the stages that I was in more trusting that things were gonna continue to go in a beautiful trajectory even if I didn't know what that looked like exactly. - Oh Matt, okay Alisa, I'm after this podcast. I'm calling you to like meet with some people. be on some things like you are so inspirational. I love it. And I'm just sitting here. I'm thinking how much my father would so appreciate the fact that we did this. And if he was here, I would tell him, oh, I just recorded with Aliza Shapiro and he would just go listen to it. And then he would talk about it for sure. And he'd be so proud of both of us. He would be in the last time I saw him, which was a couple years ago. We were talking about you. And he said, I go for speaking to Talia, and I was like, I sure am. And he said, I hope you're following everything she's doing with the J.W. In. I'm like, I sure am. And oh, they don't have much of a presence in LA. They tried and things didn't pan out. And I was like, not to worry. Like, I'm involved. Talia is making waves. And she's helping me in ways that she's even realized she's helping me. And we had an incredible conversation about you. And he got to meet my husband. And we just all were chatting and like having the best time as your father just knows how to make people feel so good. And like, have deep conversations while being whole areas. And I agree. I think this would be so full circle for him. And hopefully he can hear it in whatever way that he can hear it. And I'm so grateful that we get to have this space together. Thank you. And thank you, Aliza, so much for being so honest, so vulnerable, so inspiring. As I'm sitting here and talking to you, I'm like, okay, like a lot of our guests were talking about how in their careers, they're balancing their husbands and their children and this. And that's been a consistent theme. And I'm just like so excited that you agreed to do this and that we could have a different story. Yeah, different. And there's a lot more people than we know that we're similar situation, especially that they're pursuing their business careers because of that. It's a very unique interview. And it'll be a unique episode. And that we could reach so many more people that maybe we haven't brought in so far. So thank you so much. And I look forward to just continuing our own friendship and continuing to be there to support you. Thing that means the world to you, thank you so much for this conversation. It was fantastic in every way. And I can't wait to talk more about all the things. We thank Roth and Co, an innovator in accounting and business advisory for making this conversation possible.