2. Nature vs Nurture

every team, every topic, everywhere. This is believed. Alright, I think we're live now, but I'm trying to get the Instagram feed going. So welcome to the Hootie Rottle podcast Crimson Audible. I'm Sammy Jacobs along with me is Jamie Jordan. We are here to talk Indiana football as always on Wednesday nights. We'll get some folks in here. Before we get started, we'll talk about camp. We'll go position groups as well. We'll take questions from, you know, from the audience as well. If you are watching, send your questions in the comments section, and then we'll get started on all of this in a minute. How are you doing, Jamie? Good. Just had some same storms here last couple of days. Chicago, but without tonight for a walk with my wife and my son at the end of three times. Getting ready for a full camp. It's still muddy and hot here, but it's not really a full camp. Yeah, we've gotten hampered with some with the ton of rain here in Indiana, especially the northeast part of the state. So hopefully if you're listening, that means you have power, which is good, but you're staying safe from these flood waters and all that stuff. I think, you know, around the months of the year, you know, cast on all that stuff. I saw that they got like 15 inches of rain in the last 24 hours. Some insane number that you only see when it's snow. So hopefully you guys are doing okay. And we can give you a little respite and talk some Indiana football. Let's do it. All right. So Indiana is wrapped up practice fall practice number five. Yesterday, they'll have full practice number six tomorrow. I will be down there. Shalva pads are on pads are popping. You know, nothing really no worthy coming out of camp, which is good in fall camp. Yeah, no injuries. There's also been some here injury non injuries. Right. Yeah, I think that's it. Well, I think everybody learned a good lesson out of at a vorkin today, where it looked like I think it was Jordan Davidson. It was reported that he re broke his collarbone would be out for six to eight weeks and then a couple hours later. You know, the coach was like, I was practicing today and there's video from practice and all that stuff. So, you know, it's if you're a young journalist, it is always better to be right than first. And I know that's not everybody's philosophy these days. So that's one of the biggest problems. We have journals and just in general. First, you're last and I think that's something like this is that's a big deal. They were looking for news in the scholar and the third to be practicing this. So good. I'm glad he's okay. Yeah, it's. We had the few minutes of the day at day or hell is the running back and that that's just kicks off a lot of good memories for IU fans and stuff like that. So let's get into fall camp, Jamie. And you want to ask me some questions about it. Let you, you know, I'm not always the captain. I guess you're just the guy taking at the entrance and questions and kind of fired back. What does since you've been at every single practice now? It's media. I know you don't see. You're not really reporting on who's doing what I guess there. In terms of death charred. Who's fast too. But wanted to ask you about some position groups that I felt like were. Who kind of stood out and what kind of young, young guys stood out to you that are kind of making move up the net chart that you see as impressive. So first one I want to obviously I think we know that the top five on the offense line are from left right Smith Evans Lynch, a Johnny and Bruno. But is there anyone else sending out to you? That looks like it seems like it's been talked before. It seems like it's lead pride and will can as the next two. Anyone else pass that because we don't, you know, people that aren't at practices. You don't know anything. Is there anyone that's kind of right in terms of just like how they look physically. And then maybe how quick they are off the ball. Yeah, well, we don't get to see live periods. It's really hard to judge the line. There's no 11 on 11. There's no like offense against defense. I see it's it's going through drill individual drills some stuff on air. But you know, the big thing that I took away a lot of these young guys like Ben Novak. So, Baylor Wilkin, they have big bodies there. This is not like Indiana teams of the past where. You know, you'd have like five guys who look like they could play in the big 10. Maybe fewer than that. And then, you know, a couple guys who look like. Maybe they could back up somebody in high school team. These guys have the body types that look like, okay, this is a big 10 team. And you see guys, you know, Ben Novak's a freshman. Let me get my handy dandy roster here. Yeah, so, so, you know, once they come to mind just because since we did see in screen. Yeah, Sam Simpson, Ben Novak, Evan Parker is another one to keep an eye on. Matt Merrick. You know, Kate and Mondeu, who is a late. He wasn't a late ad to the roster, but he was a he came in the star. He wasn't in and spring. Like all those. He came on to six seven through 15. He's hard to miss. Yeah. So like those guys stand out and stuff like that. And I think just talking to Joe Peronter in the press conference yesterday. You you will get the Jacobs Avenue. That's on Jamie's list. Yeah, but like talking to Joe Peronter. It's been a seamless transition for him. You know, and people get into him switching from guard to tackle. And moving from the left to the right side or the right to the left side. And stuff like that. And he's like, it's not it's not a challenge. He's just he's there to play ball. He is, you know, he was a both that guy that was constantly knows. You know, he's played tackle and practice. He's played in a few games attack with at Wisconsin. And he knows how to play guard. So he's more of a tackle body than a Johnny. So I think that they made a good move there. But we'll see. I think this line is deeper than it was last year. It's going to be tough to replace. Yeah, I think they probably tell me if I'm wrong. They probably feel good. They're looking at me pride and I mean the way Sam Simpson looked again, he got kind of whipped by the ocean. So many in the spring game. It was a true freshman going against my big wonder. It's going to be one of the premier basketball. For Jean Paul triple. Joe. So like if you have if you can add one more guy to that mix of it's no back and tackle. This is tackle body or the sense in inside. That's that's kind of what you want. And then next kind of position by just wanted to ask you about this. The thing mentioned it. First conference he had but he was talking about obviously a rock shot with really good injured barber also he mentioned and then he mentioned the true freshman Trevor gets whom. I mean he's essentially the exact same size a little bit less weight and probably no ice and saying kind of like if you watch the some of the videos that people shout out. He's got the hair come out of the helmet. It's it's it's almost weird how like they actually look. If you use those those two and then give it just like I mean getting into my sick and the spring already is a true freshman side is that's high praise. If Trevor Gibbs. Yeah. But to me you know Brock shot. Again we don't get to see them live and hit so it's mainly past catching and all that stuff. Brock shots very confident past catcher and he's very athletic and he could do that well. And when he catches them that there's no juggle. There's no bobble. It's a clean catch you know 99 times out of 100 and stuff like that. But yeah Trevor Gibbs is the guy who. Has the body type to be the Riley Noah Kowski. I think you also you know Stephen daily played that fullback position too. Yeah. Um, a little. bit last year and you could throw them in there as long as that's as long as there those guys are eligible they might throw a you know a Steven daily in there to be the Riley no-Cowskey fullback or a Kellan Wyatt in there because I don't think other than Trevor Gibbs the body types of those tight ends don't really give you a fullback vibes like no-Cowskey. Yeah he's built like a tank and then that's why but I you know it's good to see these guys who you know were half in half out in the spring with injury come on because it was a I wouldn't say concern it's a curiosity going into that position. Okay there's a lot of potential here what does it start looking like so it looks like they have some real talent there and different body types to where they could look there's no red shirts anymore so if you need to throw Trevor Gibbs out there to block for a player to in a couple games there's no risk at losing a year so I think you make a major point that I think people are gonna have to think it's gonna be it's gonna be here and it's a few fans college footballs on it's saying me or I have it's it's weird that there's no first of all you used to not even be able to actually play at home to get a red shirt then it was four games now there's no red shirt at all so you just get the fifth year anyway and it's it's gonna be different than it was you're not gonna be holding guys out just to hold it out. No and the travel roster increased to 80. From 74. Yeah so now you could bring you you could bring a guy like Trevor Gibbs hey we have our goal line package or something and some guy who might be used just one package gets to travel now instead of hey we need to bring the back of kicker because our kicker might get hurt or something like that or we might need a backup partner so it's yeah it's the tie I feel like do you feel better or worse about the tie ends five then when you go like a song we didn't really know I feel better I don't know how you could feel worse I mean I you feel better because you have four or five guys there you're actually on the field practicing instead of two and you know maybe somebody going through drills recovering from injuries so it's added what do they have seven scholarship tight ends is that what it is yeah so yeah so sick so I just last last day on the office because again I don't know the board of definition who were they going Wilson second chair I guess it's gonna get going over Wilson in the by-beams and then yeah I did my philosophy on it yeah I talked about this kind of I know I was in here last week so what I did want to mention because I think it was a good mention you were so mentioned that like that Bob Rambo is being kind of moved outside and Debbie on Chandler was kind of playing more in the slot now they already have Tyler Morris there what I think is gonna see a lot of snaps but I also I mean you watch there's a lot of switch which Debbie on Chandler very exciting young player wasn't a super highly ready for group but high enough where it's like okay the pet at least kind of there where do you see Debbie on Chandler fitting into this one or see a group it's gonna be obviously led by Marsh Preston and Becker probably and Morris yeah yeah the over guys where do you see Chandler yeah Jamie while we while I answer this I think you need to adjust your bike because it is coming in a little tinny and all that stuff and people are having so as far as who's playing where again we can't really talk about it but it's also sick loves to mix and match and you know try put guys you know try try different groupings together because yeah there could be a time where maybe Charlie Becker and Nick Marsh are unavailable and Davey on Chandler has to play in the slot and we saw it last year with Omar Cooper when Tyler Morris went down played in a slot but then you know move to the outside and stuff like that or played in a slot during the game you know they're it's tough to read it into that and say hey this is exactly what they're doing one I can't tell you that anyway but it's it's one where they're there I it's not like you're trying to find six guys who could play it's you it's now you have six guys let's figure out who could play where let's try and experiment and things like that so what we'll see you know in game one again we don't get to see team stuff all that stuff they go through drills they line up in different spots I think people read a little bit too much where people are lined up and and things like that especially an early and fall camp where sick loves to play guys in different spots and experiment we have a question on the wide receivers there Jamie who do you think it's more plank time Morris or Preston I mean for me I have to think I think that I thought that Morris is one of the biggest ads last year yeah I'm gonna take special teams out of it yeah because then it would be no question Tyler Morris but I do think I do think Tyler Morris gets more plank time because he'll be one of the three starters yeah yeah Shaz Preston will be kind of what EJ Williams was at the end of last year where you know Charlie back or so could you not take him off the field but you can't you know guys can't play the entire game all the time so I just I just wanted to say Tyler Morris was one of their big ads in 24 if he hadn't gotten hurt he would have been the starting slot I don't think Cooper moves into slot you probably see a little bit different of the like an entire alignment honestly because Cooper was so hard to stop in the slot because he was basically untackable by guys in the secondary I think it just gave them a different dimension but Morris gives you that also that quick twitch you know beat you with deep speed kind of ability that I we didn't see it if we if we had I think people would you know Preston is a nice player if you watch his tape he looks really good this very good last year he also has a pedigree but I just feel like people are kind of sleeping on on Tyler Morris if he's fully healthy he saw a little bit in the spring game but I think he's in my opinion you know he's the more important player at least to start the season we don't know how to know once the you know once the bullets quote-unquote starts flying on and so depends on who can block like everybody's in the trash for five wide receiver sets they got a block too yeah you look Josh Hoover's not as physically imposing as Fernando Mendoza was so you know protecting him is gonna be almost do you have to leave another tight end in you know do you have to play two tight ends to help block do you have you know is the running back blocking well do you need to chip with some guys you know you're exposing your quarterback playing for five receivers are they are they gonna do it sometimes yeah and you know six offense also loves to motion guys into different positions you know there is a couple plays against Illinois where you know Omar Hooper comes in and then man crack crack crack crack block defense a back you know I think one of the things I think one of the things from it and just just like thinking back is like a lot the way that they used when they had smaller quicker guys like price and Williams playing a lot at the same time in back in 24 there was a lot of those tunnel screen place that I mean Williams made a bunch of plays on that they're gonna use the last year no Kowski a couple times I thought that was gonna be bigger part of the office they basically didn't use it lots in your boat you use it more but they just because of the way they have Cooper and the slot didn't eat stuff like that because he was you know he didn't eat it here's the beauty of sick if you watch that the YouTube thing with with Breeze Davis the the tight end screen to know a Kowski in the Illinois game they dusted it off from IUP. Oh I guess I guess yeah yeah they dusted that thing off from IUP so that was what 10 12 13 years ago he's and if you've watched it was a great insight to how his mind works he is a human computer and so if now he gives his coach is a lot of room to coach but he'll make his suggestions if he sees something that hey we ran this 10 years ago and it worked against this defense and we have the personnel now to do it they're gonna figure out what to do. You know, somebody asks about why do you see for blocking. Again, we don't get to see 11 and 11. There's no tackling and all that stuff. But if you go back and watch Nick Marshall Michigan stayed, especially early in the USC game, you know, he's a physical blocker. Charlie Becker knows how to block on the outside. And the culture in this, sorry, my dog's going crazy. I don't know why. She's a puppy. But there's, you know, they're going to block and be up to the standard. And if you're not blocking, I think it's what is it? No block, no rock. Is it saying or something like that? And they're going to be up to that. So it's what we don't get to see how good they are in practice at blocking. You can go to, you know, if they're starting on the field on game one, they're probably pretty darn good at blocking. Or else they're going to find their way to the bench really quick. Yeah. I do want to ask you so sorry about that, Meg. I run a good, I live in a condo building, one of the neighbors locked out because it's so human. Their door is like the door coming into our building is like basically just the only job we got it open. So, no, we're just like trying to read this thing going back and forth here. But anyway, go ahead. I think, so I think I use Camp Day is on Friday. They BTN, we don't we don't have access on Friday. BTN usually gets to see the entire practice. So I would watch that show. I don't know what time it is. Well, you know what? It might be they record tomorrow. I don't know. We'll see if BTN. We're down. We're down in practice tomorrow. We'll see if BTN is there. Usually, BTN gets to see the whole practice and stuff like that. My guess based on past practice schedules that Saturday would be the first scrimmage, which I don't know if you're going to have a full padded practice on Thursday before scrimmage, especially under signety. But they'll they'll get to see the team stuff. They'll have more insights and things like that and they do a good job. Let's switch to defense Jamie and get to defense line first. Just wanted to ask you, obviously, you talked about it a bit, but last week, but what have you seen specifically from Wyatt? Because we've seen daily now a couple of times, but why it was newly encamping? How did he look? Obviously, again, not milk pads, just helmets. What did you see from him? How did he look? I guess, because it, again, he's another guy who's just been out for a very long time. I know he was training and more now, but you know, it's it's important to train and want to be on the field again with the other guys going full speed. So yeah, he's a couple days behind daily in terms of acclimation. So like the first day, we were down there who didn't do any of the the contact drills and stuff like that because there's probably some acclimation stuff that you have to clear and he's he's I think a day or two behind in promises. But athletically, he looks good going side to side, moving forward and stuff like that. There's I know there's been chatter about him playing linebacker. He's played it in the past. You I think in an emergency, you can put him there or if you need to get somebody else on the field and maybe go with like a three, four or hell, even like a five linebacker look if you wanted to. He could play there. It's all depending on how good he is laterally. Yeah, which in the agility drills, he looks pretty good. He looks in shape. These this isn't you know, I think that Ohio State Fair a fan when he compared to the getting the Avengers off the couch. This isn't fat Thor coming to you know, I have been on the new master 69. This is yeah, he's in shape. He's looks in pretty good shape in I thought I thought well, I was just just from looking at it again, it's because he got injured like you know a couple times in that Oregon game and then kind of never came back fully healthy after that really. And so I guess my question is did he look fit because it looked to me like he looked thinner. Does that do you think that's accurate because he was listed at 6257 when I was sure I mean he looked at that last year I thought what did you see there? I mean, is it like I mean because these guys came in. He is listed at 6257 this year again. Yeah, it also takes me a minute to adjust that he is not number 13 on the defense. He is number 18. And then the jersey is all looked to say like yeah, it's but no, he looks he looks thinner. Maybe because he was you know training to go to an NFL camp and stuff like that or work. Yeah, people when they work out for NFL teams will look noticeably like thinner and kind of cut weight so they can perform better. But you know he will see I mean they have to get him to they have to get these guys eligible or keep them eligible until the season starts and we'll see what happens. Yeah, I know everybody's asking about them and all that stuff and it's like great but I'm going into my attitude going into season is like I'm going to act like they're not there because this could go away in a second. I do think that they'll play a prominent role. SIG said that daily should be going 11 and 11 next week and then why it was a couple days behind him. He said that on Monday. So you know that that gives you what to maybe three weeks until until the opener. We'll see we'll see how much they play and we'll see how early they play but you know what daily will be ahead of why it in terms of playing. So all those again go back to responsible reporting. I don't know what Stephen I don't know what Stephen Daily's entry was. I don't think there's a lot of speculation that was a patellar tear or as you all tear and stuff like that but that nobody knows. Yes, he's never released it. I understand what makes sense to me. Yeah, so let's move back to line back because I want to ask you because I think SIG, well you had mentioned to me Jacob Savage. What have you seen with 21 Savage there at the linebacker position? Yeah, if you want a Jacob Savage shirt and we're going to do shameless plug here. If you need a 21 Savage shirt or the NIL store NIL.store backslash Indiana go to Jacob Savage by as many Jacob Savage shirts as you want put in code. Who's your huddle? One word, check out and get 15% off your order. There you go. Shameless plug. All right. He does. He looks the most physically ready to to play in a big 10 game. He's thick. He's tall. I don't think he's going to be in the linebacker rotation other than maybe you get him in blowouts but I do expect them to play on special teams. I do expect them to be take that Charlie Becker, Davey on Chandler route to playing time. But you don't want to take Isaiah Jones and Roe Hardy off the field all that often. Yeah. Unless the games in hand and all that stuff. And then you also have to get Caden Turner and PJ Nelson up to speed or Caden Turner and Jeff Usinger keep them in the loop too because they both Usinger and Turner have both played big downs. Everybody talks about the Hardy pass break up in the fourth quarter that led to the Miss Feele goal. Aiden Fisher was at on that play too. He was I got the play before and guess who's in there covering the running back. Caden Turner. Jeff Usinger had a TFL in that game that was played that with the Proof or C-Trip in the middle. Yeah. I mean, that was a nice. I think Davey was lined off. Yeah. A nose hair off sides of something. And stuff like that. So they are used and trusted in situations. So there's your they have a very used bunch. That's why I can see why I'm sorry. But you can see why I don't think he's going to play linebacker. I think some people kind of think he'll move in those heavy sets to play linebacker. I think he's going to be like near the line of scrimmage. But I also just think they're going play him on dry marriage, is turn. played a lot last year and he's kind of the forgotten guy and then what's your I mean again that was that that play if he actually makes that TFL that would have been a massive play in that I've taken so again that's a former walk on out there so yeah so yeah so go ahead I'm sorry go ahead and cut me off there now this is a good good question who in the second purple linebackers do you think is the green dot guy yeah is that position based or just the leader of the defense so the green dot guy means that he could communicate with the sidebar usually you want that to be your middle lineback which is why it's gonna be Isaiah Jones if Isaiah Jones goes at yeah if Isaiah Jones goes out for any reason I would assume that it would go to Realize a Hardy because he's the more veteran guy in there behind those guys maybe Caden Turner he plays that that middle linebacker spot he'll back up Jones as well so you can go back there but yeah to me I think it's it's whoever knows it defense best like when the angel of ponds went out Ryle and Gandy came in and took the signals to the secondary signals and we're giving those in the Iowa came in stuff like that so usually it's a little bit position based but as the helmet communicator you usually want it to be a linebacker because they communicate to both the defense align and the secondary what the defense is I would assume that it goes who knows the defense best if those top two guys go out I would I would assume it goes the Turner and then out singer that might I'm not even I'm not even going to talk about the third string guys because if you get down to needing a third string green dot guy we're way way way down it is it is not good but that doesn't mean I don't trust them it's just like that's that's like beyond break glass and in case of emergency that stuff and then so I guess if you want to quickly move off the linebacker I didn't want to see because one of my favorite players last year was Garrett Reese what to see what you thought of him just physically and then see how they steward who doesn't really get talked about very much but there's another player that physically was playing you know what imposing and this whole stuff obviously seen last year and then Demade Tint who I mean seemingly a couple times the staff brought him up last year without even after he signed like without even being mentioned as a guy that could potentially come in play at least special teams right away I think so where do you think about teams steward and then Reese just physically where you see them at right now I mean they've looked like they're ready to play even Demade Tint is coming in as a freshman you know the the new strengthen condition guys have done a great job of getting these these guys at least look the part so far in camp you know I haven't really watched the safeties that closely one where we are at practice because we've been in melanchamp twice we've been in the stadium once and where your positions sometimes guys are on the other side of the field and stuff like that but physically they look they look good I mean the guy I'm I was a little shocked but I know we've seen Preston's act when he makes a Murray Farrell look like a little guy yeah like he's bit he's a big dude yeah and stuff like that but you know see these are not like you're not running out five nine safeties that used to be walk on here your Garrett Reese's of what yeah I think they clearly have they clearly have a body set they like I mean Farrell 6205 listed here at research 2205 press exactly 6209 Seattle 6205 Brian Rowland 6205 press and Zachman looks bigger than 620 does it yeah but yeah maybe just perspective from my perspective but he he looks bigger than 650 um Seattle they stewards number nine they're gonna have to change they're gonna have to change uh numbers there for him because they have three number nine's for 61205 and and stuff like that yeah exactly is flying under the radar and yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah I mean he's a seventh year guy he was really good at Wisconsin he was their defense at MVP I think two years ago he got banged up last year but had a couple interceptions go watch the Wisconsin the Wisconsin Alabama game he made some play he made some plays there um and he's just he I think you know as a team that that safety play was so good last year late in the year because they they were not good at the beginning and a lot of that was because Lou Moore was distracted with his off the field eligibility case is understandably and as soon as that case got settled it his mind was focused on football getting a veteran like Zachman to come in and play next to Murray Farrow who's there now you have another veteran and it's not like you're bringing a young guy who hasn't played you got two experienced guys back there and the communication should be good you know Zachman doesn't have a lawsuit to think about so yeah as good as Lou Moore was it seemed like for the first five five games six games he he was kind of not all understandably not all there because his future was in doubt weekly yeah absolutely um lastly just quickly touch on the on the corners just don't I think Sharpie can see all the different the sharpest key yeah cv1 but like with I know that Gandy's beat up or banged up or whatever anyone else it stood out other than Harris I like Carson Williams man yeah I I days of look it was against error whatever and they were doing a drill where you know it's I guess it's a bad ball drill or jump ball drill where the coach is throwing it up and you're trying to high point the ball and get an interception but his body controlling athleticism and size really good he has the proof is in the putting there from where was he Montana state he was an fcs all-american freshman all-american and like you've said about Ryland Gandy you know it's kind of the same path of they brought him in to learn behind Jamari Sharp AG Harris and Ryland Gandy to be in the mix next year to start when those guys move on again we don't get to see them go against the receivers so it's it's really tough to judge good on good hopefully um BTN gets to see some of that and can talk about it and then we'll see you know Jamari Sharp keeps getting better every single year um and and I wrote about it like a day or two before the national title game was he's more than just he was more than just the other corner for IU last year he was just I felt like he got this respect that he he was I mean if you just watch it he is he's legitimately six one and has tracks being it was all about could he put it all together um and Sid talked about it and Nazim and he's talked about it now with Harris as well um in some of the other guys but it's it's the consistency it's the putting it over and over and over and he clearly last year by the end of the year I felt like he was yeah and even when he even when he got beat on a long pass by Kennesaw State he ran it down and caused a fumble that really changed the game and put put IU you know out in front more it took basically took a field goal at least a field goal away from Kennesaw State and IU went down to I think go up 21 six or something um to turn kind of a nail bite or like uh oh what are we seeing um they struggled against O2U here we go again type of thing to okay they hit the accelerator and didn't look back um from that point but yeah you know the he works hard he's coachable and he's improved every single year and he's gonna be one of the you know one of the leaders on that defense this year yeah I'm I'm very excited to see him um I do think it's very funny because my my last thing memory of basically the entire playoffs is just when he makes the reception and then he's running you know to to end the game right he takes out the helmet I'm screaming obsidian he's gonna go go take out your helmet because I knew it was gonna be at the goal line but um you know he's lying you can't do it do it do it the Miami stuff but I just wanted to add we're just regarding sharp he finished 14 by pff and prevert rate of all corners in coachable ball last year at diesel upon six they were they were really good they were very sharp was very underrated and didn't get the phrase that he actually deserved. - I'm very excited that he gets to be CV one this year. And we'll see how it works on the other side. - We'll see what I can do. - Yeah, we'll see what it's going on. - We'll see just how good this quarterback group is when they go against Ohio State. Like I did the Ohio State preview last week. Yeah, they have questions of why receiver. So Jeremiah Smith's probably the best offense player in the game. - Yeah. - And then, okay, who fills in for Carl Neltate? - He's not the eight. - In the year 14, he's the first one. - He was the first round pick. And then you had, - Innocent. - Innocent, you bring in the kid from UTSA. But behind those three, Chris Henry Jr., he is six foot five and like 205 pounds. He's in second. But you see, but that's one of the things that's why one of the things that I like that they've done is that they clearly understand that at least in the lead, there are a lot of big wide receivers. And you need physical big corners. - Yeah, that also might not matter if your defense align is second drill and saying. - Yeah, yeah. - Yeah, you know, at six five wide receivers, no good if the quarterback can't throw the ball. Right? - Yeah. - So it's, I think this defense is, might be the best in the country, at least in the country. - Yeah, I mean, I don't think it's a stretch to say. I think that last year they were, they were really underrated last year. I also think that this year on paper, they're probably better. But they just, they're deeper on the lines. They, I mean, I guess you would fish or you'd pounce, but I mean, sharp is really doing good. You bring in a guy like Harris with a pedigree, you have Gensokath. - I think, well, you'll miss pounce is his physicality in the run game too. - I agree. - He was really good. - That's one of the things that sharp is, it definitely didn't show anything close to like what pounce. - Well, no, like pounce was able to, he had, he had that ability to kind of slip through blockers. And a lot of that was due to that he was five foot nine. - Yeah. - And he had excellent body control and could turn himself and squeeze past blockers. And you saw it in the national championship game. He had a tackle for loss on Mark Fletcher. You saw it throughout the year where he could just shoot the gap and get in there and stick his nose in there and make a play. Where sharp, he might be willing to do that, but it's easier to block a six to guy than it is to kind of find a little mouse in the house like pounce. Ohio State's G, Indiana's defense, I think, it's them or Oregon is probably the best defense in the conference. Oregon's, both teams are one, two on the defense align. You can make arguments for either one who has the best defense align. I do think Indiana has better linebackers than Oregon. And then you go into the second area and all those Oregon freshmen that were really good guys here are now soft ones. And they bring in Koi Perch from Minnesota who's, I think, a much better player than Dylan Fiedemann. So it's a close one to their Ohio State lose is a lot like Arvel Reese, their other sunny style. - Yeah, they were busy. - I think I think Bernie makes it. - But they did that last year too. Except this year they have to replace Caleb Downs. Who's a human eraser? - That's what I was saying. I still thought he was one of the best defenders. Like basically, best players. - He was the best defense player in college. Yeah, he was the best defense player in college football. And it could be argued that he was the best player overall. - I agree. I also thought the way that he, there was a play where Caleb Black was just one again that Ohio State gave us out on the far side of the far side line. And he's Caleb Black. He ran really well at the combine. He put up some good numbers and Caleb down. - He was the first one back off the board. - Right, well I'm just saying Caleb Downs was basically tracked him down, looked like moving in half the speed essentially. Like basically just like kind of, okay, I gotta get this guy out. Like that was just like, - Yeah, and he was the guy who returned on the pond in 2024. - Yeah. - He's just, they will miss that piece. Now they bring in our little junior from Florida state and they bring in a lineman from Alabama and some other places. I think a nose tackle from UCF. But yeah, Indiana's defense. Yeah, Oregon has a defense coordinator. It's a 1A, 1B situation. But there's not a team I would pick outside it, you know, than Indiana if I had the choice. - I'm with it. I'm 100. I just think that I use me again underrated, which I think is fine. Again, I don't care. I think that we talked about this before, but like, you know, to me, it doesn't really matter what they're meant to actually with the fact that they're ranked sixth is probably like, sixth can do is like, hey, look, you guys just want a title. You want 16 to know, you know, look what they think. - All right, we're gonna talk about rankings 'cause I've got my issues on rankings and I've had a crappy day and I need to vent about something. So I don't get in trouble about other things. But I thought sixth was where IU was gonna land them. How they landed there is absurd. With the second most first place votes of 14, then he had coaches vote them at 14, which is outrageous. You know, they were two points behind Notre Dame. So at five, so you're basically a top five team which you can make an argument for all the teams above them. And you can make a case for IU as well. But I thought sixth was right about where they were gonna land. It's a fair ranking. I just don't think, like, kind of like the College Football Playoff Committee, they took a weird ass route, but they got to kind of where they needed to be. To have the second most first place votes and come in sixth is a weird way to go. But you know, I don't really put any, I don't really put any starting to coach it. But I do think that seems like that's a little bit of a brooch. That seems like, I mean, what was it? Nettie could have just left them off the thing and say, you know what, we're just gonna tank our own rankings so we could have an edge of top. I don't have a 14th, which is crazy to me. I don't know, but just looking at some of those teams that there's like, come on now. I don't know. Yeah, there's a clear top five or top six teams. And Indiana's part of that group. And that's all that matters. 100%. I don't think it's really dependable. Because what I just, again, even even I, even with teams like Georgia, like I just, I know that I do have a new quarterback and whatnot. I just, I still think that I think that Georgia is going to start a true freshman who is a three star recruit on the offensive line. This isn't like the Georgia of five years ago. Yeah. I mean, none of these teams are. That's the way the portal is worked and things like that. But each, each of the top six teams have a case to be number one. And each have a case to be number six. They all have flaws. There's not one scheme that will run, you know, is the, oh, they're the clear cut favor. And everybody's saying, oh, Indiana won it last year. They should be number one. I get that. I get that argument. But in this era of college football, the turn out like it starts new every year. This is not like a continuation of last year and, and all that stuff. Like, yeah, Hoover's good. But there's also some question marks in there too. Totally clear it. And the other teams are pretty damn good. You bring Julian saying back who was a Heisman finalist. You have Dante more back who afforded going to the New York Jets in a probably good life decision. You know, Arch is, you kind of found his footing at Texas. They had camp commons making one hand of grabs on ducks and practice. Notre Dame, I think, you know, everybody hates on Notre Dame. They're going to be really good. They probably have the largest chip on their shoulder as well. I don't think it's brand bias. I don't. I hate that excuse. It's brand bias. It's not nobody. Maybe the person who did it at 14, but it's like that's such a, that's such a hot take excuses. There's brand bias still. It's I agree. I just I did think like I also think that like beyond basically OSU because they were trying to say it. I do think that there's like, it's your right. It's like the top six or seven or so or completely. It doesn't. Yeah. it's thrown darts like the darkboard doesn't really matter to me barely in the season. But I do think that like when we when we I want I'm interested so I'm interested in seeing where the eight people lands because if it's also six and we see weird voting patterns by certain weird southern journalists that would be weird to me. But because we don't know who actually voted for who where it doesn't it's kind of a non-story so you know we'll see we'll see where the other the other role is because that that's the one that's going to be interesting to me where that actually I've published you is putting people where and I think that six times I don't think it's I do think it's one more material for sure yeah I mean yeah whatever it's it's right where they they should be probably yeah it's fine it's just yeah it's how they got there I don't think everybody's like oh man India I think I think they know that in the end it's good you've had a lot of people do a male culp and all that stuff and you know and I get it social media for clicks yelling screaming brand bias and all that stuff gets you noticed with certain places and things like that now if it comes down to you know Indiana goes 10 and 2 and there's a SEC team who's 10 and 2 and stuff like that and you see a whole bunch of SEC you know we'll see but Indiana it's whatever it can't be the brand because they have the largest living alumni base you saw what these fan base does for ball games so it's not like oh you're bringing in you know whatever small D3 school that has you know a graduating class of 500 and an alumni base of 15,000 and you're like okay you're bringing in the nation's largest alumni base you have people who want to spend money and go to games now well it's year 2 so it's not as the kind of the shine is like it's not hey I'm going to go pay whatever it is to go to the Rose Bowl because we haven't been there since 1967 and it's we were there last year and then it's so maybe some people don't make that trip and crowds then out but it's the title game got 30 million viewers I know people are watching it because of IU yeah if you want interest in it because IU and a new flavor in it is in it it's not yeah first five first four if people are saying well it's IU so they're not good they're idiots yeah by the saying it's first first new champions it's a 196 with Florida yes since I think yeah I mean the the comfortable me and I agree with the oh and the Jamie and Chaffell Jamie here um 14 of course you agree with Jamie yeah was there 14 was someone had them as though that was the lowest that someone had them they didn't have names but that was apparently what I saw on Twitter so I don't know again I think that that was real but someone had 14 yeah it's one of the SIDs but I don't think coaches are filling this out but yeah but yeah it's I just don't I don't buy into the brand bias thing anymore and plus it was good for business yeah no I agree but I just I thought I just I mean comes taking a step back like that the Indian historians really good for college I think it gave fanbases like Northwestern it's really good for college football it's really bad for college football coaches I heard and job security I mean it's it gives every fan base a whole you know Northwestern just got a $35 million gift and it's like okay and we're talking about their stadium and you know an awesome new stadium and stuff like that it's like hey if they could put things together they play in the big 10 David Braun seems to be a good coach you got Kelly there on offense who won a national championship with with Ohio State is an offensive coordinator and it is why not us why can't we be you know do what Indiana did yeah and things like that now I I hate the articles of while this team's gonna be the next Indiana there is no an X Indiana and I said yeah that's actually one of the best that piece and they keep doing teams like Blasch and they were doing it with Illinois it's just like you could do with like maybe Northwestern but even Northwestern I guess it's Vanderbilt but there's no other school there's nothing that compares to I mean I guess like Northwestern Vanderbilt that's kind of it that are other like Indiana's that could be like that there's no even even then Vanderbilt is one nine and then 10 games they had a Heisman finalist a Heisman runner-up last year it's not like they're coming off of now Vanderbilt did it two years ago yeah that's different story but they've had two years of great success they were just missed the playoff last year if they had beaten uh they lose to Texas and somebody else uh they were there like a bunch of that came up at the park correctly they were down a bunch and then they like they came back and made it like a one-score game or whatever they like if they win one more game they're in Illinois was you know Illinois has a good football history they won the Big Ten and you know they went to the Rose Ball in 2007 I think they won the Big Ten in 2001 and played in the Sugar Bowl so it's not like they haven't done anything for like 50 years yeah they don't have this excessive Ohio State or Michigan or the hell even Michigan State in the mid-2000s but this whole they're the next in no Indiana was literally the worst program in the FBS history up to that now you know people will say well is a hundred years of future no it wasn't they actually after I think in nineteen after 1948 or something they had a 500 director yeah and then and then it went off the rails and you can go to point to the field they can stop where they got turned in by Purdue and Ohio State for paying players and and tank the program and tank basically support for the football program too because all sports got put on a um on a postseason band it caused the swimming and diving a couple national championships probably caused basketball a couple championships it's well and and is one of the reasons Branson for crack at left yeah um so you know people don't go into that part of the end and it's why I refuse to buy the Blue Homefield shirts um but people don't realize like that kind of triggered the downfall of Indiana football yeah and then it wasn't a hundred years of going on eleven or one ten and stuff like that were there years like that sure um but it wasn't all that bad for the first fifty years but yeah it there is no it's such a lazy take it is it's such a lazy take who's the next Indiana one it gets you hits and headlines and I let stuff but two there is no next Indiana no I agree there's it'll never happen again there's not really anything that unless it's like some random FCS school comes up and somehow does the impossible essentially and it just there's no real comparative certainly if you if you if you mass go to the playoff or wins the national title okay we'll have a discussion if you mass does or if um Akron does or you know one of the five teams that that doesn't that just doesn't have a because there's no other I mean Wake Forest maybe yeah that would be no that would be no but you know you go back Stanford has good football history Calis good football history Michal should have been in the national championship game and with uh who the Marshall Lynch and was it the Aaron Rogers here I think or might have been no that was no it was after that was it it was oh was it oh seven I don't know they got they they missed out on the net they were like third so they missed out on the national title game went to some off-brand bowl and that killed because they'll be cared um Akron without daily daily went to Kent State that's another one they throw it up there yeah Kent State but yeah it's it's such a lazy take we're gonna take a few more questions then we'll get out of here we're closing in on 11 p.m. Eastern time yeah it's two times I'm just trying to find that's really where they really get out there yeah they were dancing good to Jeff Tedford um I was there but they I forgot they were with the golf they were like it's something nice they were really good um I do want to oh I want to think I wanted to ask you about um was the the the sink you know breaking down a nose and and hoover with uh we Steve is I didn't think it was really you know it's it's fun to go as - So good. It was so good. I mean, that was, you know, if you were a football junkie, that is the good stuff. - Yeah. - It really explains why Indiana's good. It does. And it really explained why Fernando Mendoza was so special. You go, I thought his best throw the year was the one down the side run to E.J. Williams against the guy. - I know. - And apparently they had not rep that play, Chandler Whitmer had shown him a clip of Justin Herbert doing it with the chargers. And then all of a sudden, they get the look on defense, and that's the throw he makes and stuff like that. But it goes into like the back, the trust that they have and the repetitions that they do. And then seeing how they run practice and run drills. I know people, there's a lot of people on the beat who complain that we see the same whatever, four or five periods of practice. But they break down every part of the play into chunks and they repeat it and repeat it and repeat it until it comes second nature. And then when you go back and watch tape with SIG, you go, that's why. - Yeah, yeah, 100%. It was just really stuff. One of the things I did take away was, I think he kind of talked about it or he did it. But clearly, you know, Mendoza was, I don't think that Joshua were at the arm talent for Nando Mendoza to catch real quick. - He does not. He has good arm talent, but he does not have Mendoza. - There's very few courtbacks to do. And I do think, I do think that people are going to be surprised that me, Joshua could make the throws. Now, can he make some of those dime throws, 60 yards down the field in Mendoza? He can throw some, he can throw the ball far. I don't know if he can throw it in the room. - The ones that are the most, the hardest throws it to me before our hash to sideline, opposite hash to sideline. And that was the throw that Mendoza made that was like, whoa, like this dude is, you know, we're cooking with not just gas, we're cooking with like natural glycerine here because this dude just unwashed an absolute with someone in his face in an unbelievable throwout. Can Joshua do that? I don't think so. But I also don't think that he's going to necessarily eat too. For how you doing games, I think that that was a unique situation at I/O last year where I was also a very, very darn good team. And we saw at the end of here, I think coach, I think Siggit, did he not, I think he had I/O ahead of him in his final bowl, I think he talked about that at one point. Maybe I made things up, but I do think that was very funny. And you can tell with some of the ways, some of the things that they show, some of the plays that they showed that he really liked the Uber, that he clearly, you know, it wasn't, obviously Siggit's doing his homework, but like it's not just homework, it's like, this dude is doing hours and hours and hours, he's watching every good play, and then after that, watching every bad play, how can I get the best out of this kid? Yeah, and so it's like, I mean, the proof is in the pudding. He's had, what a, I don't know, I forgot how far back it goes, maybe 2019. But every quarter back he's had it from JMU on as either one conference player of the year or led the nation in QBR. Right. Yeah. It's, I couldn't get an eye, we'll watch that. Well, again, I think he made the point is that, that I think that people don't really get is that, the point that I thought was most salient there was that he talked about how it's not just, you know, sometimes they have dual frets, sometimes they have pocket quarterbacks, sometimes they have a mix of both, and it's not like just one type of guy that they're winning. It's not just, no, it goes back to like what I said about that tight end screenplay. He would dust off something from a decade ago because the quarterback at Elon was at the same type of characteristics as Josh Hoover. Like pulling that out of my backside, but that's what it is. It's like, oh, hey, we had a quarterback who matched these things. We could do this. This play was really successful 15 years ago. Let's run it because that tight end screen was a 40 yard walk in touchdown because it was executed perfectly. Yeah. And it was a play that he just pulled out of his butt from 15 years ago. Like it wasn't like the day of the game. He was like, hey, let's run this play. Obviously, you know, he watches a ton of film and he goes, hey, this is gonna work. And he, I think what stood out to be the most was that I think Reese Davis asked him how many times do you have to watch a play to get it? He's like, I know what they're doing after one try. Now, if they're doing something super special, it might take two or three. But after, I know the basic concept of the play after one look, which is insane. If you've watched film with coaches, even high school coaches, the amount of times, and I hate when they do it because it makes me nauseous, the stop start stops us back and forth. They had back and forth. It's like, just play the thing all the way through. But, you know, to get it in one try, it just shows you have geniuses and it's, Luke has a good question. - What? - How much longer do you think SIG will be the head coach before he retires? And do you think one of the coordinators takes over? When does his contract go through 20, 32? - 30, 31? - Oh, 'cause he's signed. Maybe it's a little longer. I think he's gonna, I think it's-- - I think he's done after this contract. - He's 60. - Four? - Yeah, I don't think he'll get another problem. Is he 64? He's 64 right now? - Yeah, so he's probably, I think he has another seven years on the, yeah, I think he's-- - I think that's it. And we'll see if they can keep him. But I mean, my take would be the blinding and just the guy, I mean, maybe I'm not here. What do you think about that? I was talking to Andy Graham about this on the phone. And maybe it's a situation where Bryant Haynes goes and becomes a head coach somewhere else and then comes back. - Yeah. - But it does seem like you're paying the guy upwards of $3 million. He's basically run, he runs the defense, I'm saying he's the head coach of the defense. - Yeah. - The SIG has said that. He knows how to run the pro, he knows how to run his side of the ball and that stuff. And in like a micro sense, he knows how to be, you know, the CEO of the defense and how he transitions that. Now, not every coordinator, as we know, he comes a great head coach. But there is a path to get some continuity here and whatever. And Haynes has turned down some jobs. - Yeah. - Some good jobs too. So do I think, do I think that he stays seven years to be the head coach and waiting? Probably not. But I do think that there would be a path for him to come back. Like maybe take a good G5, even then I don't think he leads for a G5 team. - No, I think he's maybe take another P4, a P4 with the idea of, I'm gonna cut my teeth, see what it does and then come back. Where he stays on. Look, SIG has said a million times, his coaches love coaching for him. The work life balance is great. Nobody's miserable. Everybody's working the hours, but they want to work with him and get stuff done. - Well, I also just think that like, the guys like Shannon and, the guys that lived within the longest, they're like Shannon and specifically, and Haynes specifically. Those two, like, they were like, one day, like, they were talking about, like, 10 grand a year, and basically making absolutely nothing. And you saw, they made 10 grand a year and lived in like a house like a condent. - Right, and what you saw as living knowledge. - But you know, there was no, I totally got why he left to go to the facility, called plays, 'cause he wasn't gonna get that, and I knew for sure, and I had to trench right now. But you can tell, like, the grass isn't always green. Like, did there is a reason that, no, especially coming off of the sig tree, you're gonna be excited to win right away. - Right. - And, yeah. So. - I believe her coach was like 67. I don't get up, but I think he's like 67. He finally retired. - Yeah, we're not supposed to talk about the Jets, Jamie. (laughing) - So, yeah, that's a, we're gonna wrap it up here. It's 11, 10, we need to go to bed. I need to get down to Plymouth tomorrow. Thanks everybody for joining us. - Thanks, man. - And listen to us ascending in questions and all that stuff. If you're listening on recording, thanks for listening on Spotify. Make sure you subscribe to the YouTube channel, so it pops up. We're also streaming on X and Instagram, which is our handles are @husier_huddle. And we'll have everything next week again. But, you know, a lot of, we will see the same periods of practice probably and all that stuff. But what I look for is kinda like the little details, the different styles of coaching, I thought was really interesting. You know, how guys look physically after, 'cause we're getting into week three, and that's the dog days of fall camp. If you've ever gone through a fall camp or a preseason camp for football, man, that second or third week, where there's still two weeks left is, that's when it gets tough. You're sick about hitting the guys in your team and you're ready to hit somebody else. So we'll be there, we'll bring you everything that you need to know. We'll also have all the rest of the fall sports, volleyball starts up this week as well as they have an exhibition on Friday against Notre Dame. They enter the season ranked 16th, men's soccer is always good. The women's soccer team was up two or three nothing tonight against Hampton in their season opener. So hit that like, hit that subscribe as well. Then keep coming back to HoosierHuddle.com. We'll have discussions in the forums. I'm usually all day, Monday, seven days a week. I usually check in multiple times on the weekend and all that stuff. So thanks, Jamie, for co-hosting. - Yeah, I was gonna chop it up. Can't wait for next week. - Yeah.