137: Natalie Koussa's Trust Funnel: How Private Podcasts Convert Better Than Traditional Lead Magnets

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(upbeat music) Welcome everybody to another episode of Launch Your Private Podcast. Today's episode has Natalie Kusa on who is the creator of the Trust Funnel. Many of you might recognize her name because she has been on the show before sharing her lead magnet private podcast, her company has been doing guest podcast, kind of setting up guest podcasting as a way to build leads, correct? Natalie? - Yeah, for a long time. - Podcast tools, yeah, we've been doing this. - There we go. - Yeah. - I'm like, I know you have a cooler name than me just say that. - Oh, yeah, so she's been doing podcast touring. And in that, she found that the best way to convert people from podcast was a private podcast. And on her episode, she shared how she made, oh my gosh, it was like at least five figures from a small private podcast of only 50 people. If I remember correctly, the beginning of one of them, yeah. - Yeah, so fun. So of course, since that was so successful and she shared her information there, she actually went on to create a service around this. So this episode is a little less case study and more like what has Natalie learned with helping clients with this new service? What has she developed as a result of this, one of these really successful private podcast lead magnets? And so we're gonna kind of get the expert who's out in the field, launching private podcasts for folks and helping those folks create private podcasts that turn into sales. So I'm gonna take notes on this one because we obviously wanna support Hello Audio users in using private podcasting in this way 'cause it's so great. So Natalie, thank you for coming back on and for sharing, yeah, what you've learned over the last, it's been at least a year since you've been on the show, I'm guessing. - Yeah, thanks though. We were talking to Fomia, we could be able to just remember, but it was a good while. - Yeah, I think so much for Fomia. - I think I was a good host. I would have pulled the episode number on. - Yeah, sure. - So thank you for coming back. Why don't you share a little more insight into your business? - Yeah, thank you. So I mean, I think you've kind of given a great, a great self-history of it, but yeah, in a nutshell, I've been supporting people to go and podcast guest tours for years now. And one of the things that I've seen, mainly in my own business that are now in client businesses, is just how powerful private podcasts are as an opt-in, like as the way that you welcome people into your world. And specifically, they're so good. So I think with more typical freebies, people are expecting a quick win. You know, like they want just something that they can action straight away. And that can be really useful and works so well for some kinds of businesses. If you're selling courses or group programs, maybe where you're walking people through a very kind of pre-sorted strategy, that works really well. But for service pros, coaches, leaders, consultants, that are working more in partnership with their clients, private podcasts give you that space to position yourself as a partner, not just position yourself as a doer, because when you position yourself as a doer, obviously, you position yourself with tons of competition. But when you position yourself as a partner with a unique point of view, all of that good stuff, you just create a league of your own, where you fall, you know, carve out a little space where you don't really have competition in the same way. - I love how you distinguish that, because yeah, like people going on a show that's like, I have this exact framework, like yeah, coaches develop their frameworks, leaders and consultants have their frameworks too. And that's all well and good. But you're right, there is something about a personal brand, somebody in the service space where they're coaching and, you know, offering strategy, I think is like a really important distinction here that when you can give the whole story in something bingeable, and it's not like a PDF that has to be read, or like take these five action steps, all super useful. Like, as I say this, I know people have been doing that for a very long time. - Yeah, but there is something magical about the private podcast piece, particularly like your, their podcast guest touring, and they're already audio, and so someone's like, yes, I would like to listen to more audio. Like that just seems obvious, and then we have this person who is on the show who has a point of view is very smart, brilliant, has this expertise, and then it's like, yeah, let me show more of that expertise, and you don't have to necessarily have your own public podcast to be able to do that, but this is kind of like a mini public podcast that you're collecting an email address for. So to me, totally makes sense. Yeah, and so I've never had a public podcast. I've got an idea that I've been sitting on for a while, so probably one day, one more come. - Yeah, okay. - But I actually created a private podcast right at the beginning of my business, was my first ever one, and the reason I created a private one was because it felt safe for somehow. Like the visibility of a public podcast at that time felt just like a lot. (laughs) - You know, like the internet, right? - You're following different now, you know, it would be a great, different thing. But when you're kind of newer, that soy sauce fell into it. Backs it in, really, and then saw the results, and then got hooked. And I've never looked back. - Yeah, yeah. So let's talk about this. You call this the trust funnel. Let's talk about like how you set this up for someone, and what the kind of key things are in creating this trust funnel, and then we'll kind of break it down from there too. - Yeah, sure. So the reason of called trust funnel is this idea that we're in a trust recession across industries. You know, people are still buying for sure. They're the people that they are buying from, are people that they trust. And if sales are slowing down, if people are taking longer, I think it's because of cynicism, and it's because they don't fully trust that either you understand them in their particular problem well enough, or you don't have the right solution for them, or maybe even they don't trust themselves, but they will fully take advantage of the support or that you have in place what they meet. You know? So, the more I see what Prada podcasts is they stack trust. (laughs) There's something so unique about people literally popping you in their ears. Like when they want to do it, it's so consensual. They literally have to pick up their phone, choose to listen to you, and then you sort of just hang out with them on their day. You know, like picking up their kids from schools, picking the dog for a walk, whatever it is that they're doing, you're just sort of hanging out with them on their terms. And there's something just quite easy, which is always a win, but quite intimate as well, and they get to hear your voice, and they get a sense of who you are, and what you might be like to work with, and you know, your personality, all that good stuff. So, when I'm working with somebody with a trust funnel, it's the most price, but we always, always start with positioning. So often people, most people come to me already have really strong positioning, but what we're looking for is a core concept, or a hook, or something that speaks to their like real, best fit client, that when they see it, they're like, "Hey, that's for me." Straight away, there's like kind of resonance and recognition of what it is. So we start always with the concept, and so far, 99% of them have been a slightly different concept to any other positioning in their business, 'cause I think it's such a unique, it positions it as a kind of capsule body of work. So, when gives you something to talk about, so when you're speaking on podcasts, when you're on Instagram, when you're writing a substack, and the call to action is, you know, take the next step with the private podcast, you're positioning it as the next step, not just more of the same, and I think that really helps with, you know, really good organic subscriber rates, it's really gonna help if you want to run ads to your private podcast, all of that kind of stuff. So that's always the starting point. - Yeah, I love that, and I think that's really important, because I think Nora and I, you know, having done our gosh, our coaching calls since the beginning, we used to do them weekly, now we do them monthly, I think like one of the more common ones when people are setting this up to do a lead magnet, and not just like a course, you know, kind of offer of a different modality or whatever, it's how do I get people to actually want to sign up, right? And this is with anything with marketing, and it's like, I think by starting, with positioning and thinking about this person going on podcast tours, you know, showing up on other types of social media, like, what's the hook? What's the thing that's going to make someone raise their hand? And what we like to think about with a hello audio is like, audio gives you like a little bit of a one-up because it's innovative. It's not just like, here's my PDF, but you now have this that piece. But then it still has to be good. It's like the audio can't just be whatever. Like you said, more of the same. There has to be this like, what's going to make it bingeable? What's going to make me want to just like give this person a bunch of my time? And what's going to make me press play? And I think the thinking of it from that perspective and really saying, hey, it needs to be something that people are going to be excited to sign up for. I think that is everything. Is there anything that you, like any kind of process or questions that you take your clients through in order to find that thing? If you can give us any insight on that as someone's listening, how you determine that or come together with that to find that? There are. So I have a bit of a framework, but I see there are two kinds of titles I see really do well, like two kind of framings of the private propast when it's leading magnet specifically. So one is, I give the people what they want, name the desire, name the thing that they want. So I designed, one of my clients is a coach for traders. So we called hers work optional. Because that is literally the people that are coming to her. They typically are nine to five or maybe they're a stay-at-home mom, they want to, but they, their whole vision, to become this like technically incredible trader, isn't to get a job as a trader, it's a literary to make themselves work optional. So that's what her private propast is called. Because her people are going to be like, yes, that's the thing I'm trying to figure out how to do, do you know? So that's one, like literally name the outcome in like a really kind of snobby way. The other way that I see working really well is name the threshold like the transformation or the kind of pointing somebody's life where they're shifting from where they were to where they want to be. So an example of that is one of my clients is a therapist who specialises in the mother wound. So like the impact on adult women when they've been under mothered home, she calls it by their own mother and how that plays out in all of these sort of invisible ways in the career and friendships and romantic choices and how they relate to themselves, all of that. So one, we called her private podcast birthright and she just said it in passing in our positioning call that what she wants for these women is to understand that feeling lovable is their birthright and I was like, oh that's it, that's the threshold. So that kind of to and that plenty of other ways to frame it, of course, they're not the only ways. But if people are kind of thinking of a bit of a framework to use for their own, have a think, is there a really powerful outcome that I can highlight or is there a belief that my best fit clients are kind of on the edge of but really need to believe in order for the transformation they want. I love that. Those are really good examples. Yeah, I think it's interesting with private podcasting. We have people come on and you see like yours was called pod damn and I was like, oh that's a good name, right? Like sometimes sometimes it's just also can be catchy because there's like the innovative kind of, you know, oh I'm going to listen to that. Like I'm like, what is she going to talk about, right? And there was someone else, what the WTF is going on in online in the online space or something like that. And it's like, yeah, like what is going right? So sometimes it's just even thinking like, what is your ideal person thinking right now? And when they're like, yeah, right? And they want to like hear your perspective on it. They're going to raise their hand and I think that's huge. Okay, so positioning. Any other thoughts on positioning before we kind of dive into maybe the structure of the feed? I suppose that it should set you up to share why. Like if we can toss it with a like a kind of more traditional freebie, the traditional freebie typically gives you the how, gives you like, you know, the top line of the framework or a step-by-step literal kind of quick win, but it's all like processing and how are we going to do this, do you know? And I think one of the reasons private podcasts are so good is because listeners don't find up expecting to be taught something like that's not typically what why we listen to podcasts. Like even if they some do teach you something like in some ways we are kind of doing that now. But people are listening to be entertained or to think differently or a little more casual. So what's going on in this dream? Yeah, like it's more casual. Like they're not sitting at their desk taking notes. So sharing why your thing matters or like why the belief shifts have to take place or yeah, like that kind of framing your philosophy, your perspective, your point of view, your penalty, all that kind of stuff works incredibly well. And because it's a bit more long form, your health space to do. Yeah, yeah, it's like the theory behind something, the storytelling behind it makes so good for audio because they don't need to see anything like your point. They're not taking notes like bullet points or whatever. They may be like bookmarking something or screen shotting to like come back to something possibly. But yeah, the breakdown doesn't have to be so like this step than this step, then this step, it's really actually like the connection piece and like demonstrating your authority and your expertise and that can come off in teaching. But also I think what I think is interesting in our space right now too is like because I used to teach this what I taught people how to build courses. And it's like there is, and I came from teaching sociology specifically. There was a lot of sociology teachers that students would sign up for and like yeah, sure, you're in college, you're signing up for whatever doesn't have to get you up earlier or like whatever allows you to like come to school late or whatever. But also you're like I've heard good things about this teacher. I've heard good things about this professor or whatever. And so there's a choice there. And so there's lots of people teaching, copywriting and marketing. And so like be cut, this is why personal brands are so important. It's like who is the person behind this? Like what do they believe about the world? Like that's the job of your lead magnet. If you're thinking top of funnel or middle of funnel to get the conversion, the sale, whatever, it's like the person raising their hand and saying like, oh yeah, I think I believe that too about how to post some social media, right? Like I don't want to post four times a day, right? And so that's why those hooks land. Like I don't post four times a day, I post once a week and you know, here are my results. And you're like, yeah, like I believe that, right? Or I want to believe that. And so I think I love this because I agree with you. I think audio is such a way to communicate that where you have like captive attention in a way that you don't have with Instagram and all of this. And like that attention feels fleeting. Still important, but fleeting. There is something about someone choosing putting on those headphones or getting in the car, picking your thing and listening and like not clicking away because they kind of can't. They're driving. They're multi-tasking. So you have a little captive, right? But it's also like there's habitual things tied to it. So anyways, I think what I'm getting from you is like you have them listening. Like bring your best you, right? And bring like how you see the world and then like the how is the higher the that you know what I mean, the like the next step or whatever. And an audio is so good at that, I feel like. Yeah. And it gives you so much space to bring your personality. What are my clients? Yeah, it does. And she's hilarious and she's sweary and she's so all of that is in the private podcast because that's what she's going to be like to work with. And like her right people are going to adore her for that. You know, so there's this, whereas sometimes that can be quite hard to get across on social media without being I don't know like offensive or something or you know because it's like such a snapshot. It's it's it's whereas the private podcast you can just chat away. And then you know, edit it afterwards if you want to. You know, use something like to script as the easiest thing in the world. You just it's like editing a Google doc and then they have that lovely little export straight into hello audio. So there's no less than row of files. Like it's just the easiest thing to do. Yeah, I love it. Okay. Any other thoughts on positioning because I feel like this is an important piece. I think just reading it in the work to have a point of you that isn't something that is just because it's so easy to make like a hook or like a you know, a hot take or but you need to both talk about this thing. You have to back it up. I do not mean. And also it's something you're literally going to be known for. This I think is making a part of a podcast is making like many body of work. People literally quote back to me something set in the private podcast. If I'm honest, I don't even remember saying, because I recorded it so long ago and that's it. It's just kind of handing out there. So it has to be something and it would like, so, you know, they say it and I'm like, "Oh, did I say that? Okay, good, yeah." You know, you want it to feel like that. You don't want it to be something like, "Oh, you know, I've changed my mind already." Or, you know, whatever. Like, really, really, just do the work to how they can be a strong point of view. But a point of view, you truly believe not just something that he thinks sounds good. Yeah, that's so good. I think, yeah, delivering on, it could be click-badi, it could have the hook, it could be whatever. But like, if you don't deliver on like what you are saying, then that's the opposite of this little dress funnel thing. I'm too nervous for that. Okay. Okay. Exactly. So let's talk now a little bit maybe, I know we can get into the tech too, because I know you do a lot of this setup and I think thinking through some of those pieces, can seem overwhelming. This is a funnel that you are building. So we can talk about that, but maybe let's talk about the episodes. Like, how do you script them and kind of pull that out of your client? So they have a good point of view. You know, questions, we get all the tech. How many episodes? Like, how long should they be? Are you selling in it in some capacity? So yeah, give us the goods on that. What are you seeing? Yeah, sure. So I outline the episodes. I don't script them and for them, because I want them to always sound like the person. So I literally like, you know, tell them the shape of the episode and what goes where? And then, you know, and I'll say, tell this story and I won't script a story even if they told me it, because I just want them to chat and be themselves and they'll do it so much better than I could write for them anyway. So that's the way that I do it. So typically, I see three episodes being a real sweet spot. Most listeners that go through my private podcast listen to either one or three episodes, like they're either kind of and lots of people buy after listening to one. If they're that kind of biotype that they're a fast decision maker, they're not what they need to know. That's great. So I do get this question quite a lot. People are only listening to one episode. Does it mean they're not interested or whatever? It's like, no, not necessarily. It could mean that they're that kind of a biotype. If nobody's listening through till the third episode, and yeah, you know, probably listen to me again to do. But then for some people, we add more episodes because that's genuinely useful and kind of helpful for them. Like one of my clients runs a membership. And within the membership, there are five kind of key like elements that they work with. So this is bringing on to the way I think about it. What they need to do is show you as a partner to whatever transformation it is that you are offering, even if it's done for you. Maybe especially if it's done for you, because people don't want to know how you're doing it. They want to know the why. They want to know the strategy. They want to understand how you're thinking about it for them. You know, trusting with a piece of their business to deliver on. And also if you're a coach or a consultant or you do something in more of a transformational way, again, like one of the easiest ways to build trust is to share how you think about things and your point of view and why you approach it in the way that you approach it. And you know, maybe some of the mistakes that you made earlier is that that's why you do it now. And you know, all of that good stuff. So when we're thinking about partnership, it's like the membership client that I just mentioned. For her, one of her things is that she's there as a facilitator and like in the community. She's not there as a teacher or you know, she very much kind of wants that like partnership vibe. So for her, we defined her part of the podcast that it had five episodes of one for each of the key elements within the membership. And then her outline was a series of questions that she could ask one or two clients. So every single she had the first episode solo. It's kind of frame it, introduce herself. And then the rest of the episodes were conversational episodes with members where we still guide them to talk about their transformation. And you know, it was still very much rooted in biopsychology and what people need to know to move towards working with you and you know, make a really informed, confident decision. But for her, what she's selling is community. So we're like, well, let's invite them into the community. Have jazz in yourselves. Have a laugh. Like let people know what it's going to feel like. And if they feel that sense of belonging, they'll know they're in the right place. And it's you know, really obvious next step to join the membership and become part of the community. That makes so much sense. So so yeah, you have like a template ish, but you're not like this is exactly how many episodes and how long and so it's the spoke to us. Yeah, I love that. And I'm curious. Do you add any testimonials or any other examples of people coaching in some of the other? The people who are just coaches and not, you know, membership side owners. Have you played with that? Are you really trying to keep it? Okay. No, I'm ready. Open to it. And I think it was if it adds something that, you know, extra, but there's people really open to us. I said, this is this is the spoke each time. It's supposed if you want to kind of understand the shape of how I think about it. So we always start with what I can make in your movement. Like the the big and that puts some people off because I don't know what my movement is, but I literally just mean like, what is it you're doing here? What's the point of, you know, so the trade or work optional. Episode one was all about she sees these different kinds of work optional in the clients that she's working with. So she's giving people like the literal kind of examples of work optional, could look like this or it could look like that and telling stories of clients that are created, you know, different versions of work optional for them. So by the end of episode one, people are are aborting in an emotional way. They can envisage themselves in the transformation, in the movement as you know, a movement is just a group of people that are all kind of moving towards the same thing. That's all it is. Yeah. Yeah. It's much of an instant kind of. So yeah, so that's why we start. And then in the other episodes, we're typically doing a combination of belief shifting. If there are common beliefs that are holding, you know, coming up as hesitations or discounting people from thinking that they're the right person for it even if they are. And Rodersey not trying to persuade people you know, to go, but just those like the the therapist that works with women with the mother wound. So one of the things that she sees is adult women, you know, the people she works with are typically really successful. They've got a great life, you know, on paper, but inside they're struggling. And one of the things they often say to her is, oh, you know, my mum wasn't an afterist or it wasn't that bad or other people have it worse. So one of her episodes is all about how's like what kind of experiences might count in like a very generalised, you know, specific experiences that are much more general than people typically think about it. So they can literally listen to the episode and think, oh yeah, I did have some of these experiences. It is what I'm feeling is valid, kind of validating who they are in their experience. So that's the kind of way that we think about it. Okay. And then how do you think about like calls to action? Are you really strict on like, hey, I want them to know exactly what the next step is. It's book a call or it's a sign up for this program or join this community area. What do you think about that? I don't think it's necessary. I think one of the one of the really good things about private podcasts is that you're always stacking trust as long as it's rooted in biopsychology, as long as you are meeting people where they are, you're building that curiosity, you're building that trust. So I do always say to people make sure that in the show notes for every single episode you have a really clear CTA. This is how you can work on me. This is, you know, so they can just go straight through like our episode one listeners, you know, then they just go straight through, book a call, join the thing, you know, whatever it is. But I think it's much, I think a kind of subtle selling approach works because a lot better with private podcasts. So doing things like mentioning and passing the concept that you use or the process that you use in order to facilitate that transformation. So you know, not just jumping from my client comes me like, you know, wanting a private podcast and we made a private podcast. You want to, you know, share some of the process that the people, but not talking them through your framework in the kind of, boring, yeah, you know, how to do that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I like that. But just kind of mentioning how, you know, just some of the concepts, all the things I do with my clients is making sure they've got really good names for different pieces of the process so they don't need to go into huge explanations. And in the last episode, that's when we'd like really give all the details. This is the next step. This is what the offer is, you know, all of that. And my thinking is that quite often people join, and after only listening to one episode, they don't need all those details. They're really happy, you know, for that kind of proactive buyer, they're really happy to kick through to sales page, recognition, great. Whereas if they're listening right to the end of the podcast, they're probably, you know, a bit more analytical or really enjoying the detail that you're giving them, or a bit more risk of verse or, you know, one of those kinds of buyer types. So they're going to want the detail. So give it to them. Yeah, and then people can kind of choose how they consume it and they'll make their own bio journey from it. Totally. Okay, super cool. Anything else you want to add about the setup of the feed, the creation of the feed, I guess I should say, the structure. Well, you just said you always get asked this as well. How long should each have to so big? Yes. I mean, there is no definitive answer. But I think like around sort of 15, 20 minutes is a real sweet thought. I think it's long enough to really go deep on something and you know, not kind of skin bits that you want to tell. Especially in storytelling, like you want to get into it and give some detail and bring it to life and all that good stuff. But people aren't signing up to a private podcast expecting like three hour long episodes. You might listen to that on a public podcast, I think, but maybe probably not. But on a private podcast, I think they want something bingeable. I think that's the kind of mindset. So you don't want to give them an hour to listen to you. You want to give them a charge sweet and sharpened short, short and sharp. I don't know what of all of those. Yeah. Anyway, you want to get them up. Yeah, it's interesting because yeah, there are public podcasts where people talk for three hours and people listen to all of it. Like, you know, the iPhone just came out the new one. There's probably breakdowns that are hours long. But I think those listeners like know that that's what's happening. And they're cool. Like they're like, this is what that show does. Like that's why I'm here. I need this super to in depth analysis. But like to your point, like a private podcast, it's like it is supposed to be that little short thing. Like it doesn't need to be this whole thing. But I also don't want people to overthink it where they're like they think that it has to be five minutes or it has to be 20 or whatever because that's not really true either. But it's more about like the expectation of the person signing up and kind of like how you frame it and all of that. And so, you know, speed and like ease and like get to know me and like, but is like part of that. Then like they probably expect something that's like, poignant enough to be like bingeable. And I think to your point, like you said earlier, there's a hook that's like very specific. So like it does a service to your listener to keep it tight and deliver on exactly what you said you were going to deliver on. And so that's the big thing too. Like when people used to ask me about courses, like how long should the course? It's like as long as you need to get them the result that you're promising. So that that still holds true in something like this. And the episodes, I think it's nice when they have a like beginning middle end in an episode, right? But then also the podcast has a beginning middle end as a whole feed. And so when you think about it from that perspective, it's like, yeah, there's a room to do it differently. And just thinking about the intention and what someone is feeling when they choose to sign up, I think that matters too. Because if they're going to get hit with a three hour workshop that you ran and you just like didn't edit it at all. And they're not expecting that. That's probably not going to be super great. I think what you're crafting is this very purposeful thing. And so to me, keeping it tight totally makes sense. I also want it to be fun to create. You know, we want it to feel because I think your energy comes across so much in audio or video, you know, the beauty of it. We also don't want to be like, oh, God, here we go. And like reading your script and like, that's not the vibe at all. I keep really should just feel like having coffee with a friend, talking to them, you know, talking as if you were talking to them and just recording it. And even like, I don't really edit mine, even. I just, you know, very lightly edit and off we go. Because I think that like nobody is perfect and we don't want to work with perfect people anyway. So just be yourself. Because you're quite as good as the who you really are anyway. So just like make the whole thing really come true. And you know, to talk, you know, the coffee shop like imagining or whatever, or like imagining yourself in the coffee shop with a person, I used to get that on a public podcast I had before a linger private podcast. But I would get that like I met someone in person who was a fan of the show. And it was like, oh, I feel like I already know you. And it's because they're again, when you do hundreds of episodes, they're, you know, you can't hide anything like you're just you like you could obviously edit whatever you want to edit, but even still like stories from your life are going to come out. So here's this like smaller version of that. But with the ability to create that same feeling where it feels like you met for a coffee chat and the person's just, you know, curious asked a question about what you do or asked a question about how you solve X problem. And you share that. And to your point, it was scripted like you wouldn't script something like that. If you were sitting there over ice coffee like with somebody that would be so weird. So that's right. I think that's what I love about audio is it feels less like there's less polish needed. That that and again, of course, any, you know, I don't teach video or shorts or anything like that. But you know, they say to like don't make that really polish. You don't have to. I still think people feel like it because it's like their face. And so they're like the lighting should be good. Like how do I read goals look like at least you don't have to think about that with audio. So yeah, I co-sign all of this and I love that. That's what you're putting out there because, um, yeah, this feels really thoughtful. And from a sales like event is so important. And I think that's what I want to get across to. It's like you're being intentional about the exact journey you're taking someone on, right? And thinking through these pieces like all add up to something that's going to convert really well. Yeah. Yeah. I've tried all sorts of different made magnets like I've had raster classes and pre-recorded micro classes and three different private podcasts at this point. All sorts of like loads of different things. And the private podcasts have consistently like just blend your lines out the water. I get in terms of sales. So I have had master classes that have had far more sign ups because I think there's that like the window and it's going away and we're very used to that kind of launch sequencing. People are like, great. I mean, but they haven't converted nearly as well as the private podcast. And I can much more about it. It might be this. Right. You know, then sign ups. Yeah. It feels so much lighter for someone listening to because I think there's so much hoopla around big numbers in everything you do in marketing, right? Because that's the hooks that everyone's selling you that they could get you with their strategy. And so yeah, it just, I want people to be thinking, particularly thinking about your your episode with us where you just had 50 subscribers. And you were able to convert those people like it's not about the number of people. It's about the right people raising their hands and them connecting with you in this, you know, audio experience that you've created. And I think that just makes it feel lighter. And I think anything in marketing that feels lighter and fun, right? To create like you said. And it gets out the door. I mean, that's all we can ask for because the stuff that doesn't get out the door, not good. Yeah, exactly. I think that I did client tell me the other day that this was a her speaking on podcasts, which is saying, you know, I'm not sure how well I did and could we have a challenge just kind of go over there. And we were talking about it. And I said, so after the podcast, like, what did you see? Like what was the response? And she said, well, I had five people DM me on LinkedIn to ask about my services. And one new client, which is like, you know, a five figure client. And I was like, okay, so pretty successful for your second. I like, you know, like that's me. You know, but who cares if a thousand people didn't join your email list because you've actually, you know, the right people are coming in and you've got like cash to show for it. Yeah. And I'm trying to. Yeah. And I think to like marketing is getting more like niche identity based interest based. So that's what that's going to look like. You know what I mean? Because you're like one of probably a lot of people talking about somewhat of the same stuff. So like you're probably not going to get a thousand people who are going to be like, I've never heard this before. But you're going to get the people that is like, I've heard this before, but I want to learn about it from you. Or I want to do the like, you know, I want to be in your world as I explore whatever the topic is. So yeah, I love that. Okay. Let's talk about, I mean, we're coming up on the end. Is there anything you want to say about like the tech setup as you think about, you know, emails or, you know, bumps and trip wires like funnels stuff like and how complicated you make it or how simple you make it. And if you have any insight there that you want to share. We don't do any of that. You're going to say that. Yeah. Yeah. I'm just trying to pull these like it on. Yeah. I do. But it's not needed. So the way that I think about it is just start super simple. Get something that's working. Get people coming in. And then you know, you can add in anything that you want around bump strip wires or all that just. But the way that I think about it is most of my clients when they get, like deliverables, they have recorded within three hours. Probably like literally just dumb. They're like, great. Let's go. And then to the way that I, so if you want me to just get like literally like step by step press this, press that. But overall the easiest way to do it is use this script, which before is just like a Google doc to like you literally just delete a word and it deletes it from the recording and then top right there's a little button called that says export and hello audio is literally one of those options. So you know there's no uploading downloaded files and all that does it just takes it straight into your feed. And then the simplest way to do it is have show notes for each episode that link to your offer or whatever the next step is you know book a call or whatever it is that a free audit you're offering something like that but I would also always link the paid offer because you will have people coming through that like I know I want this let me just listen to one episode to make sure you know and then they're ready to buy so don't make them jump through hoops they always have kind of a different buyer type in mind who needs a bit more nurturing and that's fucking of trust and who just wants to move on through and you've got a like cater to both of them always and and then pretty much that is it like in an ideal world you're also going to be sending emails alongside it you know it's kind of welcome sequence but one of the things you know so good about private podcasts is they are building your list so as long as you have well crafted episodes your links are really clear and then they're joining your list and you are emailing them but you can't expect them to literally it'll happen occasionally but it's not like a good business model it's like it's literally join the program podcast and then and then join your offer you do also need good sales emails that are going out but what I see is that because you've warned people up so much they need far fewer so in my business people that have joined through my private podcast I can see in on the back end of my and emails they're the people with the highest open rates they're the people with the highest click rates by far and I care about that a lot more and they buy three times faster than people that have joined my list in a different way so I still do the work to email I you know it's not like a this magic bullet but it is just this really incredible tool to happen slightly business you know what it's interesting because I was thinking about this Julie C already called it I think she called it like surround marketing which obviously I love yeah and so she has the private podcast piece but then she also was doing these live launches so now when I hear it it's like yeah you don't want this to live in isolation but what you brought up is like you are getting the magic piece though and that's the email list and there is no marketer with their salt that's saying that you don't need an email list and in fact I'm actually hearing it more than ever and you know the newsletter rise and stuff that's happening right now so that's what's cool about doing private versus maybe a public show if you're into audio but the fact that you have a lead magnet that is interesting and actually getting consumed that's why they're converting more in the email sequences right because these people are ready hot they're like more warmed up buyers is what we're finding when we talk to people about this across all different types of ways that they're using private podcast and that's I think the magical piece it's like you know anyone out there is saying yeah you have to have your email list like capture them don't just create tiktoks or whatever but then no one's like well this is the best lead magnet right or like this is the one that's like actually doing really good stuff and so that's what I think I want to be saying is like hey maybe the type of lead magnet really matters too depending on what you teach and you know what you offer but yeah you're hitting both of the really important things of like the private podcast you're getting that connection you're building that trust you're establishing your authority and you're collecting that email address and you're keeping them in the loop and so when they're ready they're ready and that's what makes I think what makes private podcasts so good yeah for sure you just like it so easy for yourself and you make it so easy for your future clients and everyone's winning yeah so good all right any other final things that you know we haven't talked about maybe some of the results that you're seeing from your clients if you have any insights now that you've kind of been working with a lot of people on this anything that you're seeing across the board trends or anything like that so it's pretty early days for sure I've learned a lot of them but a lot over the last like you know little while so it's only and I've not been good again the feedback just yet but I will I will be results coming but kind of anecdotally one other things that we're seeing is people's private podcast being shared so one of my clients is really active on LinkedIn and I mean I'm not really a LinkedIn girl but apparently like the reach used to be absolutely amazing and then recently the reach has really dropped it's very hard to grow and be seen and kind of get into new audiences on LinkedIn and that's one of the things that she really wanted to be able to do and the very first morning that she published her private podcast she shared about it on LinkedIn and of course because it's like long form your private podcast it gives you all the all tons and tons of short form content so when you're sharing it after you just that that's a good point for your effort road so yeah like really just make it easy for yourself so she did that and that same morning somebody that wasn't a connection of hers on LinkedIn shared the private podcast so they'd already found it downloaded listen to it shared it on LinkedIn tag her and talked about a really specific kind of nuance that for she's also a positioning strategist and she takes a really unique amazing kind of perspective on it and this the president shared it was talking about how positioning people and messaging people don't get people like me and then kind of name to industry and like tags and people so it was like literally wow positioning my client in a new you know introducing her to all of her mates the different same thing as her as like this is the one we've been looking for so you know think and that you know we're back to positioning again we're back to a great name we're back we do cover up for I partner with a designer who does cover art because then that really helps as well you know the visuals of it and you know all that kind of stuff so and then another client who she already had a really good lead magnet is very strategic but she was finding it wasn't always addressing the mindset issues that were coming up so we did a private podcast that is like a a bonus part of hopton the up she's keeping up to because it works great it's really strong walk them through it and then people that want a bit more of the mindset support listen to the private podcast as she's finding but it's working for that kind of biotype as well as like the very kind of you know go get things self-starter that's able to just crack on with it oh that's a good yeah I haven't heard that before like especially with like lead magnet it's you're like a bonus with a lead magnet but this is that's cool like because we've had people do like walkthroughs maybe of their PDF or whatever and so I guess that's related like it's like a companion that can go because yeah we will tell you like don't change anything that's already working but like how can you add value or how could you like spin it into a new asset or make it exciting again like that's a great way to add a private podcast in as well super fun okay well we'll have to have you back on again when we hear more when you've worked with like hundreds of people on this right yeah no I I love that you're doing this it's so needed we get asked to stuff like this all the time so yeah hopefully people who are listening who are pretty sold on the private podcast thing Natalie where can they find you they I mean obviously you have a private podcast I think we're putting you one yeah there's a new one coming it's called a League of Your Own and it's all about how to use a private podcast to build this kind of capsule body of work the positions you as a League of Your Own so you can get that at NatalieCusa.com/league and if you interested in Trust funnel go to my website and it's really easy to find NatalieCusa.com and just look at my homepage you're about to see Trust funnel there girl that you tell me I love your website I was just poking around I was like oh it's so pretty very visually appealing website Nora and I were on it super fun so yeah we'll definitely have you back on thanks again for sharing everything that you're worth your time yeah awesome take care