NASCAR's Kurt Busch Remembers His Brother Kyle

Wherever you are in the world and in your grief, I'm glad you're here, you're not alone. My guest today on the podcast is Nascar Champion and Hall of Famer Kurt Bush. He's grieving the recent death of his younger brother, Nascar Champion Kyle Bush. On May 21st, 2026, Kyle died from severe pneumonia that progressed quickly into sepsis. He was just 41 years old. Kurt was born six years ahead of Kyle. Their dad, Tom, worked as a mechanic and raced locally, passing on his racing knowledge to his sons. Kurt and Kyle were fierce competitors when they were racing against each other, but they also cheered each other on. Kurt retired from full-time racing with Nascar in 2023 after suffering a concussion the year before. He's still an active driver, however. Kyle was married to his wife, Samantha, and they have two children. Lennox, who's four now and Brexton, who's 11, and is already racing. I sat down with Kurt Bush in Washington, DC. You were six when Kyle was born. Yeah, I was six years apart. And I was like, "Oh, man, I thought I was going to be an only child, now you're here." Were you always interested in racing? Oh, yeah. Our life cars, cars, cars, cars. My grandfather, who I never met on my dad's side, he was a used car salesman. I didn't know that. That's cool. He was an auto mechanic and a tool salesman. Then he had his street rods, and then we had his race car in the garage, so there's always cars to touch, feel, and work on. In the '80s, all my buddies in Vegas, I grew up in Las Vegas. They all had dirt bikes. I'm like, "Dad, dad, can maybe Christmas get a dirt bike?" I really wanted a dirt bike, too. Right. Got on Christmas Day. So I got in the yard, and there's this go kart. It's all shiny and orange, and looks awesome. I'm like, "Man, I want a dirt bike." And he said this to me, and I didn't quite comprehend it at that age. I was seven or eight, and he said, "Son, you're going to live a longer life on four tires than you will on two." And that's where it started. How did you actually start racing? My dad let me drive his race car when I turned 16, and then we built the car, and then me and my dad race together, and it was just father's son. You would race against your dad? Yeah. And I beat him in my second race ever. We started traveling around, and it was like when the bushes showed up, everyone's like, "Oh, we're running for third now." Right? I mean, when we went to the track, my dad, it was no social hour. It was, we're here for the trophy, we're not here to make friends. And so that was instilled in me, and it got instilled in Kyle as well. Just all those years, it was like he was putting me through this racing education that I didn't even think that it would turn out the way that it did. When was your first professional race? I was 19 years old. The race was live on ESPN, like this was the big moment. And I won that race, and then my name just like, you feel this aura of, "Who's this kid? What's going on?" And I'm racing in the cup series by 22 years old. Wow. When did you notice Kyle's interest, or was it just always a given? Everything that I did, he wanted to do just as good at the same time. Right? Even though he's six years younger. Yeah. I'm 19, and he's watching his older brother on TV, winning races, and he's just starting out. H12, I think, is when things opened up with the little legend car races. What are legend car races? Other motorcycle powered cars, that's a great, great spec division car to learn how to race in. I mean, they'll go over a hundred miles an hour. Wow. My nephew, Brexton, he's 11, he's already racing in those legend cars. Just imagine your older brother is doing all this, and he's 12, and he was just as fast as me when I'd come back and race a few of those legend car races. At 12, he was just as fast as you in racing legend cars. How was that possible? He was watching me. He's working on the cars. He's doing everything, but he's doing everything just at turbo speed, following me. I got him in the truck series at age 16. He's racing in a professional ranks at 16, so that's where we're all different. For me, I was flunking out of college, got an opportunity to race, and I won in this race at Vegas. And I just got out in victory land, and I'm like, this is what I got to do. For him, it was just a fast track just to get to where I already was, which was in the NASCAR Cup Series. I just caught a lucky break. For him, I think he was hell bent on getting there. In 2001, you would won a race, and I think you said something to the effect of like, you think I'm good, wiggly, you see my younger brother. I did what I could everywhere I went to leave a bridge open and to leave a road paved for him to go through. There was times when we would have some, like, hard-to-heart talks, and be like, man, my first ever NASCAR race, they booed me because you, am I, well, you'll make your own name, bud. So there's a little bit of that friction of the sibling rivalry when he first got to Cup. He felt like he was in your shadow. Yeah, and I gave him a tainted name because I was having some feuds with some rival drivers and the fans. They were booing me. He was all right. But his friction with people and his tenacity, mine was aggressive. His was doubly aggressive because he knew he was that good. For people who don't know what he's saying, he was known for his attitude. He was known for saying what was on his mind, and he had no recoil with it. He was fine with it. He didn't care. He took the black hat and I rolled with it. There's a video of you too. This was in 2012. That's my place. The engine stayed together as we were overheating all day long. Just all the guys, man, this is a great day for monster energy, and this guy right here. I'm so proud of you. You proud of me? You all right, he's a driver? He scared the hell out of me, but you made it happen. That's all it matters. He told me what to do at driving like at lap 40, and I was like, here we go. Here's the owner, tell him the driver. Get on the wheel. How to drive. So no, I just got to thank monster and tackle here. Our guys at Toyota. This was an unbelievable race, and the fans here are nationwide. It's a great series to run, and I'm happy to run here this year, half the season with Kyle. You can feel all that joy, right, and then that turn C, and I'm like, yeah, he's gone. I keep trying to go back to those memories of good. And when people ask me about things or want to talk, that's one of our biggest highlights together. Just that project of building a team, building it from scratch. That's where it really starts hitting, is that was the start of something very special. In 2015, Kyle narrowly beat you in a one-two finish. Sonoma, yeah. In Sonoma, yeah. Was this after his accident? Yes. Right leg and left foot at Daytona. I mean, the crash looks really bad. Oh, dude. It's horrendous. It is like a hundred yards that he got to run at a straight up concrete wall that wasn't protected by a safer barrier. So he gets hurt in February, and then his son is born in May. And he goes to rehab and he pushes himself and he's back on the track in June. I think it's like his third race back. I was on the gas to catch him and I ran out of laps. I got to his red bumper on the last lap and I probably could have like thrown it in there just to try to see if I could wreck him. To wreck him? Yeah. Yeah. Like actually wreck him? Yeah. And then I get to win. But one of those moments of, he went through all this and he's already back to winning. It was like a slingshot moment of just now he's going to the stratosphere on who he wanted to be in this sport and ended up winning the championship that year. Let's just watch that. Yeah. So there's Kyle and then I'm in the red car chasing down. There's red car. Yeah. And this road course, you're pushing hard on the brake pedal. You're on the gas. Road courses are very physical and his foot was one of the things he was still in somewhat of a soft cast. Yeah, I guess I wasn't that close. I needed one more lap. The final turn. No crutches necessary. Kyle Bush wins in Sonoma. That was the first time you finished one, too. Can you believe that? Only four times that we finished one, too. I'm out close to 800 starts. He was going to get to 800 four times. I would have thought there'd have been dozens of opportunities for the one to finish. There was a race where you guys collided. Yeah. That was back in '07. And I read, you stopped talking to each other for like a year afterward. He said that I racked him. I mean, you racked me. And then you look back at the footage and you can take it from both sides. I read there. It was your grandmother who kind of said, all right, enough, you guys. Yeah. Got to get back. Grandma did want a peaceful Thanksgiving. She was like, you guys need to just bury the hatch. She didn't want and punching a Thanksgiving. Yeah. We were able to get through Thanksgiving, but it was still a little bit of friction. That's when he was starting to come into his own, he was just dominating. That's when I think we found another chapter in our relationship that he's going to big time. And I was proud of him. I was starting to concede like, all right, he's going to double my stats. He's going to triple my stats. How was that realization for you? That was tough. I had to grow up and go, you know what, you helped him, but you're not as fast as him. Every athlete goes through it. But here we are just two blue collar kids out of Vegas. my mom and dad they've got to be in the hall of fame. one day, they have two Hall of Famers. When I was with this started out, it was just a hobby. When you were inducted to the Hall of Fam, which was in January of this year, Kyle introduced you. I just want to play what he said. I couldn't be more proud of my brother Kurt, as we're just two kids from Las Vegas, Nevada, raised in a blue collar, hardworking family, where hard work was an optional. We were taught to grind it out and to make it happen. None of this came easy, and in this sport, it shouldn't. And watching Kurt believe in himself long before the results ever showed up has been an incredible experience for me to learn from. He earned every bit of this, and I'm so proud to call on my brother. It is now my honor to officially induct Kurt Bush into the NASCAR Hall of Fame. Again, it's tough to see him and hear his voice, and he did it so well, just very thankful. That we had the ride that we did, you know, for me this year, I mean, these highs of Hall of Fame induction, the lows of my brother, and last year, in December, I lost a good friend Greg Biffle, and his family, his entire family was killed in a plane crash. So in the last year, you, you were inducted to the Hall of Fame, brother died, and your best friend. Just I'm trying to grieve in ways to help people, my mom, my dad, and Samantha. Samantha's his wife. Samantha Bush, yeah. And you know, our crew guys, the Carl's crew that's around, I try to do it where I'm not biting off more than I can chew, and then back off a bit. Like I'm doing another extra curricular race in Washington, DC, and running a different car, old car of mine. And when you race your old cars, you have all those old memories of what that car drove like, and what it felt like. And so it gives me that release, but then trying to help everyone get through this and share stories, and it's not going to get any easier, but time will help heal. And I'm trying to teach my parents that you're going to have to talk about it, and people are going to come up and share their stories. I mean, even the dry cleaning lady in North Carolina, where I live, been going there for 20 years, she's hurt, come here. She's, I lost my younger sister around your age. I had no idea, but these are those discussions that are part of therapy. I feel like this little therapy session has helped. I haven't talked about how much you haven't talked much about them, because it's too painful. I'm a 600 texts behind, and I'm a guy that usually goes to bed at zero. And I try to connect with people that reached out, and you only can do so many in one day. And some of those are from months ago. Yeah, from right after. I have a nice therapist that I worked with towards the twilight of my career on just things sports wise, and retirement is approaching, and his therapy helped. It has. I embraced it a few years back, whereas the younger teenager, 20-year-old, 30-year-old, nah. But I've had a really good group of people around me sense, and it gives me that advice to help others. Did you know that Kyle was sick? I didn't know that Kyle was sick. I had heard that he asked for a shot at the walk-ins Glenn race, I mean, like, two weeks before. I know through my physicals and his physicals and ask, are we both arthritis and gout, and struggle with sinus issues? I struggled quite a bit, needing predisone, needing a steroid shot. And so I know he probably went through the same thing. There was that race where he was driving, and he said on his radio, I didn't need a shot after. Yeah, it was most likely a sinus shot of some sort, but I didn't know he was sick. People around him said he had a little cough here or there. He wanted a race the Friday before. It was opening a go-kart track somewhere in North Carolina with his son Brexton on Tuesday, the day before. There was no signs of what this led to. He was in a simulator practicing. It's a normal routine now for a cup series guys on Wednesdays to spend a couple hours in the simulator. It would happen. So he's just doing his normal session, session ended around five, and he gets out, and goes to the bathroom and starts coughing. And his crew chief, crew chief is kind of like your wife at the track. It's your best friend. You take care of each other, and you share a lot of secrets with your crew chief, and crew chiefs say, "Yeah, all right." And then when he went into the bathroom Kyle was sitting on the floor with his back up against the wall. He said, "You don't look so good." Kyle was like, "No, yes. I need to call an ambulance." Kyle said, "Yes." That's something that athletes don't do. Nobody shows weakness. That type of person. And for him to say that, something's wrong. My ambulance gets him, gets him to the hospital. Things are stabilized. Meanwhile, I turned my phone off that evening, and I didn't hear about anything until my dad is calling my girlfriend's phone at 4 a.m., and that's when I learned it. I brush straight to the hospital. It's just a fast thing's changed, man. It's not fair. When I happened into a 12-hour period, it's un-thousandable. Inside of a horror movie. It wasn't like we'd lost time. It wasn't like we didn't have good care. Just one million and it's like, "No, no. We'll be right back with more of Kurt Busch." I'm Dr. Sanjay Gupta, host of the Chasing Life podcast. We're going to talk about rethinking how we die, how we think about death in the first place, greatly informs how we live. Our guest is Dr. BJ Miller. He's a hospice and palliative care physician. We are aging as a people. This is a worldwide phenomenon that we are aging and therefore getting closer to the end of life on some level as a group. It's not at all surprising that you'll see a revving up of interest, services, and also sort of anxiety that pushes us away from the subject and makes us cling to life. Listen to Chasing Life, streaming now, wherever you get your podcasts. Were you able to be with your brother at the end? I was. Samantha, my mom. My dad didn't want to go in. My dad wanted to remember him in his eyes the way he wanted to see him. I respected that and I understood that. When other team owners started to come to the hospital, NASCAR executives came and then a couple of his best friends came. That's when it starts getting real. It was tough. Did he know how bad this was? I had no one of us know that happened that fast. You didn't know that that was the end. The sequence of events is just it's horrific. He didn't deserve this. I'm here to help with where I can. Samantha's got the toughest job right now. Were you able to talk with him at all? Well, I know he could hear me. I read a number of people in the NASCAR and the driving community said it made them kind of rethink their own attention to their own health. They're just taking it more seriously. It's a big eye opener. All of us feel the pressure of making sure that we stay in the seat or stay in the car to race because if we're out, a young driver might jump in and win the race or do better. We're all independent contractors in NASCAR. If you're not in the race, you can't win it. I mean, early on, my second year I hadn't won yet and I felt like I was just going to get cut and I'd be out. It's pretty tough some in certain situations. Kyle was already thinking about his own retirement and turning to coaching his son. Yeah, we talked about it quite a bit. He was on a nice five-year plan because Brexton is five years away from being 16 and racing professionally in the truck series. That was the goal. Kyle wanted to drop back off of cut and run trucks full time and actually he wanted NASCAR to change the rules so that as a cup driver, he could still be eligible for a truck series championship. If he could have won the truck championship, this one gets tough. He would have been the only driver in all of NASCAR's history to be a three-time champion in a top three series and then he'd have the truck ready for Brex. What's it like to see Brexton racing? That's so cool. His racer craft and how he talks, it's like Kyle. I see a lot of him and him and he's going to be a ball of fire. He's on the fast track, more so than even Kyle. Really? Yes. And he loves it. He's into the data. He pulls up his little tablet and he's like, Uncle Kurt, check this out. I went above 100 miles per hour my first time. He's 11 years on through and he pulls up the setup. I told him like, "Hey, what happened with that purple car? Isn't that the kid that's 15?" And he goes, "Yeah, but I'm better than him." Something Kyle would say. You know, Samantha and Kyle have raised a great young man. And with their daughter Lennox as well, Kyle and I talked to years ago that when Brexton was going to be getting a little older and racing more on the asphalt tracks, I said, "I'd be more involved." And this was his first year of racing on asphalt. And now this happens. It's not what I had planned or he had planned, but I'll do my best where I can as Uncle Kurt. You want to be involved? Oh, absolutely. And Asgard did a tribute of the Coca-Cola 600. And I just want to play some of that video. This is the missing man formation. I've never seen that before. Literally, I've never seen that before. And I was just like, "Wow." I say, "Our family grew by millions right there in that moment." I thought, like, with all the people watching. Yeah, in that formation. I've never seen that before, not anywhere. And then with the eight that they sprayed into the infield grass, you know, with my brother's date on there. I didn't want to go. You didn't want to? I didn't want to go to the tracks too soon. I didn't feel real. And probably went, "I needed to be there for my mom and my dad." Samantha, Rex, and Linux. I was thankful for that moment with Asgard. As soon as I turned around, after this, all the drivers wanted to come out to me. Of course, thank you. This was rough. It's a lot. Yeah. It's a lot to do. Yeah. I didn't even realize, you know, I didn't want to look back. I couldn't feel the presence of everyone behind us. I just didn't want to look back. It was still just in shock. We're all in disbelief. I think we're all finding the best way we can to battle through this. Does it feel real now? Yes. Yeah. And that's where I've had some conversations and went grieve and went and raised some races and then seeing Brexton race, you know, that was tough. What helps? Different conversations help. You know, therapy and going to the track and people give you a hug and some people want to talk and some people just give you that that soulful feeling of condolences without saying anything. It helps to go to the track, though. It's not too painful. It helps. Yeah. It can't go too much. Like, too much exposure to it is like just being out in the sun, you get sunburn type feel. I had that happen a couple times. Now, I've learned, okay, it's enough. I need to go home. It's just so vivid at the track because everybody has a number eight or an 18 or outside of Cubs game recently in this. This whole guy has an M&M's jacket. My brother is racing sponsored jacket and I had to go up to him and he goes, your brother personally gave me this jacket. No kidding. Seven years ago or so and he pulls it up on his phone. This nice old guy, like seven years old. I wear this everywhere. I'm on a tour on the mall here in Washington, D.C. and this young girl comes up and she says, sorry about your brother. My father was one of his first Jackman on his professional race team. So there's going to be those signs and it's a matter of just taking it in and just take a deep breath and be okay. The first time you got in a car after he died, a race car was that difficult? I actually got in the car like a half hour before our practice session just to sit there and have a little chat with myself and with a prayer with him. Do you talk to him? It's when I'm getting in the car. I just check in. Racing what I'm doing right now in these vintage races and these extra curricular style races, I'd love for him to be out there with me. Once Brexton gets to be that age, I would have loved for all three of us to go out there and race. I wonder if getting into a car will be the place where you feel your brother. It's primarily been around the car. It has been? Yeah and it's almost like if I make a mistake on the track, I'm going to get scolded because he would have seen it, you know. Stepping into a vehicle, getting on a race track, you can feel him there. Not three or four times so far this year. Yeah, it's just because it's so strong right now. It's so new and still so much of a feel of disbelief. It's only been a few months. What do you hope the grief becomes like in your mind? I already know that he's the winningest driver in a car. Everyone knows it and the legacy that he's left behind with the amount of drivers that he has coached and the amount of crew members that have worked for him or raced with him. And when people tell me stories on how he affected their life in a positive way, it helps me move forward. You like that? It helps. Yeah, but only so much at a time. It feels like dinners have been more intimate with my parents advice that they had heard from a racing team owner that lost their son. Holidays are tougher, birthdays are tougher. August 18th, it's now Kyle Bush Day, 818. It's just going to hit harder for a while and different. Is there anything else you don't want people to know? I just love the phases that we went through as brothers, you know, or six years apart. And when you're teenagers, six years is an eternity of being a part. And then you get to your 40s, six years is like six days. You're the same, right? I loved how we went through these phases even on the racetrack of the sibling rivalry was real, then helping each other with sponsorships and the key things to make us stronger that we didn't tell other racers about this track or this moment or this and then racing on track. It was like we were the same mindset and the same thought process on where to make passes and how we drafted with each other. I just loved our synergy on the track and then the evolution that we went through and towards the end it would be like we both take the driver's suit off our back and lay it down for the other brother. And the biggest thing that I miss is just that banter and the unspoken words when we would race each other, the back and forth. I mean my last win at Kansas Speedway 2022. My brother's second and there was one big slide that my brother missed on taking the lead. And I could see it like that was his chance and now his tires are toast and when I caught him in the next set of corners it was almost like he knew he was done go ahead brother you get him I couldn't get him. He yielded. You won't really see it if you pull up tape. Fans can't find it, team owners and the data maybe. But you knew he yielded and I was able to win that race. And I called him afterwards I said thank you he goes I know I know. Those are the things I missed the most and that's my last ask I would. He helped me win it. I didn't know this until you were just talking. It's like a secret language or a feeling that only you and Kyle could understand between you on the racetrack wasn't spoken but through the the brotherhood yeah the brotherhood and the feel you just knew you were communicating with each other. It's a form of communication without words and that's a bond that you and he shared that no one else does. Now thank you you picked up on it. It's hard to describe and it's beautiful it is it's poetic in a way to feel that and not even see like him but just know it's like a mind meld that you can't share with anybody else. It is an unspoken language we're pretty tight on track and I could feel it. What a beautiful thing to have had. It was pretty special but thank you. I haven't really talked about him much and I appreciate this therapeutic in ways. It's really lovely to learn about him and about your relationship. Winning his brothers and ask our history took two of us to figure it out. Thank you. If you have thoughts about my conversation with Kurt Busch that you'd like to share you can leave us comments on our grief community page at senan.com/allthere is and if there's something you've learned in your grief you think would be helpful for others and we're just going to to talk about your grief experiences with us, leave us a voice mail at 404-827-1805. On Thursday, September 10th, I hope you join me at 915PN for my streaming show "All There Is Live." It's on every other Thursday. You can watch new episodes live on CNN.com/AllThere is, and it's free on our community page for a week after it airs live. Thanks so much for listening. Plus, get exclusive content and interactive Q&As with CNN's journalists. Subscribe now. Visit CNN.com/AllAxis.