512: Narcissism Explained

(upbeat music) Hello, hello everyone, and welcome to the Adult Chair Podcast with Michelle Shelfat. I gotta tell you, I love really love saying that. This new marriage I've had with my podcast, The Adult Chair. It's so good to be here with you guys again. And I told you I was gonna do more solo casts, so here I am today. This is exactly what we're doing. Today we're talking about narcissism. This is a term that gets thrown around. I'm gonna say probably in the last, I'm just thinking back on this over the last 10 years. This term has been getting thrown around like crazy. Like people ask me all the time, I think that there are narcissists. Do you think there are narcissists? A narcissism is thrown around on the internet, on social media, on a regular basis. So today we're gonna clear things up. We are breaking it down. What is it? What does it look like? Are you a narcissist? Is the person you're with a narcissist? How do you know? Can they change? All of these questions, I've taken all the questions that you all have been writing in and asking me about. And I made a list and we're gonna go through it, step by step today. So get your pen and paper. You're gonna wanna write some of these things down 'cause we are all about it today. We're breaking it down just so that you can be clear and crystal clear about it. And as always, if you have further questions, hit me up on social media. I love answering your questions and a lot of the topics that I'm gonna be doing in these solo casts, which I love, they're coming from all of you. I wanna know, what do you want to hear? Would you wanna learn? What would you like me to break down? And I will do my best. Not saying I know everything, but I know a heck of a lot. I've been doing this, can I say it out loud? 30 years, oh my. And doing personal work for even longer. So yeah, we've done a lot of research, we've done a lot of, I know a lot of this stuff. So we're gonna break it down. And as always, and you guys came up with this many, many, many years ago, simple psychology meets grounded spirituality. You know that's what I'm all about. So that's how I break it down for you. So here we go. Let's talk about the term narcissism. So I'm looking down at my questions because these are from you and I don't wanna miss any of 'em. So what the heck is narcissism? What is it? How do I know if I have it? I actually get asked that question quite a bit, like do I, Michelle, I gotta ask you a question am I a narcissist? So we're gonna go over that today. So someone that is a narcissist, these are the indicators. There's someone that's like all about themselves, center of attention, they talk all the time. They don't typically ask you how you are. And if they do ask, this has happened with some people, I know personally, when they ask you, hey, how are you? And you say, oh, I'm great. And you start to share. They may cut you off and then start telling about, sharing about themselves. They appear very confident, however, underneath the confidence is a lot of shame actually. So the mask that they wear is confidence. It's just, it's not real. It's not solid confidence. It's not healthy, solid confidence that comes from healthy self-worth. It's not that at all. It's actually like fake confidence. So that's what it is. They actually crave attention. And when the spotlight, think about a spotlight, like if you're on a stage, right? If that spotlight is not on them and it shifts to someone else unconsciously, they're very uncomfortable. And underneath the surface always is this shame bubbling, blah, blah, blah. So it bubbles up. And so they wanna get that spotlight back on them 'cause that's when they know who they are. So let's talk about where does this even come from? 'Cause again, I've had people ask me like, oh my gosh, am I creative? Oh, what is going on? So let's talk about it. So with narcissism, what happens is it's typically, again, first of all, we're not born narcissistic. We are not born with narcissism. It is something that we learn, it's developmental. So what happens is when we are raised in two different ways. Number one, you're put up on a pedestal. If you're put up on a pedestal by your parent and let's say you're a great athlete, you're a great dancer, you're a great artist, whatever you might be. And your parent tells you, oh, look at them. They're my prints, they're my princess, whatever it might be. And they constantly are pedisteling you. They're always putting you up there as if you're the best or better than everyone else. You can do no wrong. That actually is building a false personality or persona. And that child starts to believe that if they become or attached to or stay with their true self, which is of course someone that's gonna make mistakes, someone that's not on the pedestal, someone that's not the perfect athlete, someone that gets things wrong, all those things, they're not gonna be lovable. So the child becomes who that parent wants them to be. So they're up on this pedestal and that's not even who they are. So the distance between who the child truly is and who the parent wants them to be up on this pedestal, the distance between those two is shame. That's the shame. So this is why it's so hard for people to step out of narcissism because in order to start healing it, transforming it, you've got to penetrate down off that pedestal down through the shame to reach the true self. So it's an identity that gets built around the true self and it's the false self of someone that's perfect, someone that has it all together, someone that is the best at everything, the best athlete, the best artist, the kid that gets the straight A's, the kid that's better than everyone, that's better looking than everyone. You hear that when you're growing up, it becomes who you think you are and you cannot get off of that pedestal. So that's why a lot of people that are narcissists, they excel, they do really, really well. They, but again, it's driven by a false persona, it's driven by a false ego persona, false self. What is all the same thing to me? It's driven by the ego that says if you don't do that thing and be the best, then you're gonna drop below that pedestal that you've been put on as a child and you will experience shame. So at all costs, the narcissist will constantly push themselves to be the best and always the best. Okay, so that's one way for someone to develop narcissism. Another way is that the narcissist grows up in a household where they're neglected. Nobody's really paying attention to them. They get the impression that they get the impression of like nobody really cares. I remember working with several clients who grew up in alcoholic homes and they were neglected. And in one case, I remember the mother passed away and the father was an alcoholic and was drunk all the time and the kid kind of raised himself. And he, so here's, there are many things that's gonna happen in a case like that. The child could become a cotependent, start caretaking or the child has to develop an identity that's not that. And again, it elevates above who they think they are into something else, something better. So they put themselves on that pedestal. They strive to be someone else. So again, narcissism comes from over, putting the child on the pedestal by the parent or the kid does it on his own because he doesn't wanna be a nobody or nothing or a piece of crap. If you look at my family, my father's the alcoholic or my brother's the screw up, so I gotta be the best. So that's, again, very, very, very simplified where narcissism comes from. It's one of two things. Now, with narcissism, that term is overused. It is overused quite of it. Like I said, on the internet now, it's like everybody's a narcissist. They're a narcissist. That's not technically true. Here's what is true. Narcissism traits or tendencies are on a spectrum. Let's say zero to five. But when you zero is nothing and when you hit five, you then go into the world of narcissistic personality disorder. There are fewer people than you think that have this. I'm not saying they're not out there 'cause they absolutely are out there. But the way the term gets thrown around, you think that everybody has narcissistic personality disorder and they don't. Now, there are a lot of people that have narcissistic tendencies. Again, these are people that might lack empathy that wanna take up all the oxygen in the room. These are the people that are uncomfortable. They don't know that they're uncomfortable, of course, but they don't like it when you're talking about yourself. They're gonna try to draw the attention, especially if you're in a group back to themselves and even if you're one-on-one. They're going to draw that conversation so that they are the center of attention. So that spotlight is only on them. Because when that spotlight, think about being on the stage, gets moved off of them. They're just standing there and they become a nobody. And what's happening is that shame starts to bubble up. It's very uncomfortable. So this is all unconscious, of course. So unconsciously they drag that spotlight back on them. So they are the center of attention. Again, they appear very confident. But if somebody points something out that's critical of them, or they're getting criticized for something, or they're pointed something out like, "Had it like when you did that." They don't handle that so well. They do not. Because guess what? Again, it drops them into shame. They don't want to feel shame. Shame feels horrible. And they're going to avoid that shame at all costs. So they're going to deflect and say, "It's all you. It's not them. They cannot take responsibility." Because if they take responsibility, they're going to be like, "Oh, I'm going to be they're dropping back into shame." So again, it's a really shame-based identity. And much like codependency, narcissism becomes their identity. It's like who they are, how they exist in the world. Now again, they would not identify as the term "narsicist." But it is such a false self. It is how they show up in the world. It is their identity. Okay? So that's how I break down narcissism. So here are some questions that have come in. Oh, this is a big one. Can someone heal from narcissism? Here's my answer. Yes. With a big "if." If they have awareness. I've had so many people over the years come to me and ask me, "Oh, my gosh. Can I ask you a question, Michelle? Do you think I'm a narcissist?" So if somebody's asking that question that tells me they have a level of awareness, if they're worried about it, by the way. So if they're worried about it, that tells me you're probably or not clinically a narcissist. Okay? Now, you might have narcissistic tendencies. And if that's true, and you're asking that question, I have hope for you. So on that scale, I was talking about a zero to five. Zero is no narcissism at all. Five is off the chart. Psychological mental illness. Psychic, I am mentally ill with narcissistic personality disorder. Someone that's a zero to about a two and a half, I have hope for. I have a lot of hope. Because if you're asking the question, it tells me you have some awareness. Again, you have more awareness the close you get to zero. But if you're even someone with a level two, like, "Wow. My wife is telling me I'm a narcissist and my mother and my brother and my sister, can you help me?" And I'm going to say, "Yes. I have a lot of hope for people. You've got to want it and you've got to have the awareness." And then you can work with anybody. So if you ask me, like, "What's the first thing I would suggest that someone does?" And if you're listening to this going, "Gosh, maybe that's me." What we want to do is start to get, and I would say this honestly to any human, but specifically someone that might have this fear, you want to learn how to get comfortable in the uncomfortable emotions that are inside. So for example, when somebody pulls that spotlight off of you and someone else is talking at the table, if you're at dinner at a party or something and you're not the center of attention, how does that make you feel? Sit with it. Be with it. Don't drag that light back onto yourself, let it be on someone else, and notice the uncomfortable emotions that are bubbling up. Now, allow yourself to breathe and be in those emotions. And just start to notice. I mean, the greatest thing when we're shifting this is awareness, to have an awareness around it. So notice if someone's sharing with you and where's the spotlight, notice that. Notice, are you trying to drag it back to yourself? Notice are you sitting in the uncomfortable emotions that are coming up when the spotlight's not on you? Notice if someone's sharing something vulnerable with you, are you able to have empathy? These are really big ones. People that are narcissists do are not able to have empathy. So what is empathy? Empathy is when I'm able to tune in and feel what you are feeling over there in front of me, whether you're on the phone with me or on Zoom or whatever, can I feel what you are feeling and really go there with you? That's empathy. So when we have a spectrum of narcissism, the empathy, the more we go from zero to five, goes down. So that's another thing I'm going to practice. Again, it goes back to this, sitting in the uncomfortable emotions. So if you're experiencing sadness, if you're experiencing something, can I actually feel that with you? You got to practice that. And the last thing is, again, someone that has narcissistic tendencies or traits, when someone brings up something to you, whether it's constructive criticism or some other sort of criticism or something that I prefer that you do like a boundary, it's going to feel painful if you're a narcissist. Again, this goes or have narcissistic tendencies and you might want to deflect. You might want to make it about the other person. You're going to say, can you believe that they said that about me? That's crazy. Instead, what I would suggest that you do is sit and listen, sit and take it in, let it land. And here's the biggest thing. Ask yourself, could this be true? What that person out there is saying about me? Could it possibly be true? Maybe? Maybe not. Trying to try it on for size, like trying on a blazer. That person told me that I was being inconsiderate. Instead of just saying, I was not, I was not inconsiderate. Ask yourself, say, huh, thank you for sharing. Let me just take a moment and actually sit with that because maybe that is true. I don't know. I'm going to sit with it. I appreciate you sharing that with me. Maybe it's true. Maybe it's not. Again, you've got to be willing to sit in the uncomfortable, in the uncomfortable emotions, and often that shame's going to bubble up and it won't kill you. I promise you, and I speak from experience. Not only have I done my own shame work, I've sat with others when they, when they've experienced theirs, it will move through you. Not going to kill you. It will move through you. And then you start feeling it so much. Feeling your emotions is the powerful, powerful stuff. So, all right, onto the next question. So yes, so someone can heal from narcissism. If you have narcissistic tendencies, no more than a two and a half on that scale. Okay, next question, let's see. Okay, why do I continually create narcissistic relationships in my life? Such a good one. I have worked with countless clients over the years, and have said this or asked me this question. Hi, isn't I keep creating the same exact person? And I have had people over the years that have said, I am moving out of state. I have had people that have moved to other countries to avoid the narcissist relationship. And I've said the same thing over and over and over, which is you can move to the other side of the world. And until you do your inner work around this, you're going to continue to create the same exact person. Because here's what's true. My reality is a direct reflection of what is going on inside of myself, inside of me. So my internal wounding around things like, I don't matter. I don't have a right to have an opinion. I allow people to walk on me because I don't matter. Speaking up for myself is not okay. In fact, it's disrespectful. I should let others speak for me. Whatever you learn when you were growing up. Remember, I talk a lot about this, our roadmap for how we live as adults, the roadmap. Think about how we think, how we react, how we respond, the relationships that we pick, all the things is primarily, not exclusively, but primarily built on the first six years of life. And what you learned and what you inherited and what you absorbed from the people in your environment. Yeah, let that sink in. Think about driving around in your car with a paper map from the year it was when you were six years old. It would be quite difficult to go to the restaurants that are not even there right now that weren't there in whenever you were six years old. So we navigate our lives based on a very, very old outdated roadmap filled with our wounding. And our wounding continues to get added to that roadmap as we go along with all of the traumas that we experience. So we are, again, creating our external external, oh, let me say that again, our external reality based on our inner beliefs, not the conscious mind, which is 10% of who we are. 90% of who we are is coming from the unconscious. The way of saying that or unknown, the unconscious mind, unknown mind, it's sitting in the unconscious. Carly Young called it the shadow. It's like, it's in the dark. We can't see it yet. We're creating relationships based on our own. what's going on in there. So when we have an external reality that we're not happy with, what humans typically do is we go find another partner, go get another job because I just got fired again. What the hell's going on? Why is my boss? Why are all my bosses? So mean, it's not about your bosses. It's not about your partner. It's not about anyone but you and the beliefs that you have about yourself. Please do not for a millisecond blame yourself or judge yourself. This is about getting in touch with what the heck is going on within me that I'm creating that or allowing better way of saying this, allowing that behavior out there to land on me. Why am I allowing someone with narcissistic tendencies or traits to treat me like this? What am I missing? Like the red flag was not going up when they did this and that and the other thing. What is that all about? So we may have beliefs that say things like it's okay for people to be rude to me. It's okay for people to speak unkindly to me. It is not okay for me to speak up for myself. If I don't know how to set boundaries, I'm not going to know what to say. If I'm not in touch with what's going on with myself internally and from my emotional perspective and my body, I may not even realize that that person is treating me poorly. So what we want to do is get in touch with our inner beliefs. This is about all about our inner work. I got to get in touch with my inner beliefs so that I can change those or better yet update those beliefs because they're very old and outdated. Just like you update your phone, you got to update your beliefs, you got to update these beliefs. So then I start creating and drawing to me and become attracted to healthier partners. If I'm creating someone that is not healthy, there's a part of me that's not healthy. And you guys, we all have this inside. Not to say we're all attracting narcissists, but we all have these unconscious unknown beliefs. So if you keep attracting in narcissists and I have seen this beautifully done with clients over the years, when you start updating your programming and you start doing your own personal inner work, your external reality changes and you will not find that person attractive. You will not be attracted to them. I don't care if they are love bombing you, they are sending you flowers every day and sending you gifts and all this stuff. You will not fall for it. I promise you and guarantee you, you will not. Because if you have a healthy sense of self worth and an inner sense of healthy value, self value, you're not going to fall for that. You just won't fall for it. So that's why we continue to create relationships over and over that are narcissistic in nature or by nature. It's because we have not done the work, the inner work to change that radio signal that is being broadcasted out into the world to create a new person, a healthier person. So there's always hope for changing this and changing the dynamic between you and the person that you are creating that you are bringing in to your relationship. Okay. Okay. Yes, we've already done that. Okay. How do I know? Oh, I already answered this. How do I know if I am a narcissist? Yeah. Again, if you're asking that question, that tells me you do not have narcissistic personality disorder, but hey, maybe you have some traits. We all have a little narcissism in us, like a little bit at times. That's okay. It's if you're hurting others is if you're not having empathy. Is it all of those things you really, really, really want to pay attention to and get in touch with and shift that? Okay. Let's see. Oh, can I change my partner who is a narcissist? No. You cannot. In fact, you can't change anyone but yourself. You can't shift anyone but yourself. Now, it's not to say that you can't suggest things if they want help. Here's the thing. If I don't want help, if I don't want to change myself or improve myself or do my own inner work, I'm not going to change. I'm not going to change. And I've had people come in and they drag their partner into therapy or coaching and they're like, we need work, you know, and the partner does not want to be there. They ain't going to change. Sorry to say that. There has to be a desire or will or an openness to change. So you can say things like, and this is not a threat. I want you to hear me. If we talk about the adult chair model itself, I can say things from the adolescent chair, which would sound like a threat. Like if you don't go to therapy with me, then I'm going to divorce you or I'm breaking up with you and we're done. That's a threat. Comes in the adolescent. The adult says this. Here's the difference. It's a similar energy or words, but it's a different, it's from a different chair. Here it is. So if you want your partner to go and they don't want to go from my adult, I'm going to say, here's the thing. I really believe in healthy relationships and healthy relationships require healthy, healthy communication, maybe even sometimes going to marriage coaching or counseling. This is really important to me. If it is not in line with you and you don't want to continue to work on this relationship, perhaps this is the end of the road for us. And I am not attached to the outcome. I'm not badgering them. I am not hounding them. I am not threatening them. Those are all from the adolescent chair. That's from the ego trying to manipulate and control another person to do what I want them to do. That does not work. What does work is me expressing, this is just a boundary, what I choose, what I desire, what I prefer. This is the kind of relationship that I would like to have. Here it is. One where we continually work on our relationship where we can continue to improve our communication and sharing vulnerability, all the things you want, whatever you want. You state it. And if they're not in line with you, you've got to be okay with maybe making some adjustments, not threatening, but just saying, it's just not okay with me. This is what I prefer. So I think maybe this is the end of the road for us. Period. That's it. It's healthy. That's what healthy people do is they have healthy communication. If I can't tell you who are my partner, my friend, my whomever, how I feel and what I prefer, that's an unhealthy relationship. It just is. So you have to find out what your boundaries are around that. Like what's okay with you and what's not okay with you? That's the question. Okay. So you cannot change your partner. They've got to want to do it. It's kind of like me saying, hey, why don't you start coming to the gym with me five days a week? I'll put you up at 5 a.m. every day. What do you think? You're going to be like, no, unless you love the gym. I can't drag you there. You got to want to come. You got to want to change on the inside. Okay. Here's another question. How do I navigate a parent who is a narcissist? This is such a tough one. I've had a lot of clients like this as well. The key with this, see here's the problem and what happens when we have a parent that is a narcissist. Healthy parents reflect back to the child who they are. A narcissistic parent, projects, not reflex, but projects under the client, under the child who they want them to be. Right? So big difference. So a healthy reflection is something like, oh, I love that you are such an incredible artist. I love that you love finger painting. I love that you love to draw and you're validating the child for the skill or the craft or the whatever that they're doing, the sport, whatever they're doing, your valedine them like, I love that about you. I love that you love to go outside and run. I love that you like to whatever it might be that that you're seeing the child do. I love how kind you are. I love that you do this or that or the other thing. A parent that is a narcissist either uses the child as a scapegoat and blames them on everything and it's that child's fault for everything going wrong in the household or they're going to project on the child who they want them to be and this is where we go back again to how the narcissist can form. Now they may or may not form into narcissism. They might become a codependent. They might become just somebody that has something else going on. But what happens is the parent projects on them. Like I remember One of my clients had always wanted to grow her hair long as a little girl and her mother hated long hair. So she made her get heat for her haircut, like a little pixie cut her whole life and she never allowed it. So our parent, the mother was very controlling, very, very much put the child on all the time. The little girl really wanted to wear a lot of pink and the mother would say, I hate the color pink, Sissy's wear pink and like really make fun of the child for what she wanted and what she liked. The little girl wanted to play with dolls and when they made fun of her for playing with dolls, as a baby, she did that. So she was constantly criticized because her mother didn't like and want her to do those things. So then the child grows up longing to please the parent. Well, maybe if I do this and we twist ourselves into a pretzel to become who that parent wants us to become. So we continue to lose ourselves, lose our true self, our connection with the true self, lose our identity. And we can become very codependent, meaning if I could just do this and my identity becomes outside of myself again in a different way with my parent where I am helping and becoming who they want me to come. I am fixing them. I am morphing in who they want. It's like my identity is just not healthy at all. So navigating that as adults, and I worked with a lot of people over the years that have had parents that are narcissistic and really unhealthy, really unhealthy parents. And it's so hard because what we have to do is peel ourselves away from the parent and learn how to rebuild and tap into our true self and who we are and what do we like to do and then give ourselves permission to do it and start learning. And once we build ourselves up and there's that the self worth that we build is so critically important when we are rebuilding after having a parent that is a narcissist, after having a relationship where we experience narcissism because our self worth is just it is, it isn't pretty bad shape. And I just, I don't even know, I think you guys should know this, but in case you don't, I have a free self worth unshakable self worth course. I've mentioned it before, but this feels like an appropriate time to say, take this core. It is free. The adultchair.com/selfworth. People are still commenting about this course that I taught months and months ago. It's really an incredibly powerful course for building that self worth. So go check that out. But with parents, it's so hard because man, you know, I always say we love our parents so much. We never want to see them through a negative lens. And sometimes that's the truth of it all is that they're really unhealthy people. And I've worked with people even into their 70s or 80s that don't want to let go of the hope that their parent can someday see them for who they really are. And depending on that level, that scale of narcissism again, there are sometimes when your parent will never see you. They will never see you for who you are. They will continue to criticize till the day they die. And it's so painful. And I hate that for people. It is a hard relationship when your parent is a narcissist. So oftentimes what people have to do is to go into the no contact because that parent just holds them as that scapegoat like everything is their fault. They constantly blaming their child. And we turn into these little kids because we really want that love from our parents. And there's no easy way around this. And I hate this. You have to go through the grief of really losing your parent even though they're still alive. And knowing that also remembering that they actually have very serious mentally something is not right. It's an illness. It's like wishing so badly that a penguin would fly. Like they have wings. Why don't they fly? So then well, a parent that you would think should love you. And I don't like the word should, but we really could say we would hope that most parents do love their children. That's just not the case when there's mental illness or some sort of disability and they just can't. It's heartbreaking. And I hate that if you're listening to this and this sounds like you, but sometimes it is a case of going no contact and you just cannot let them in. Because when you let them in, there is manipulation, there is a blame. Again, there's scapegoating. There is taken advantage of you. It's heartbreaking, honestly. So I wish I had some news there, but it's really learning about building up your own self worth and having healthy boundaries for yourself and what's okay with you and what's not okay with you. And also grieving. I've got to go through the grief process that I didn't have a parent that loved me as a best or maybe they did love you as best as they can, but I don't even know that narcissists can. I don't know that they can because it's a really, really sad mental illness. I have to say it's sad because there's so much shame. We have to remember that they are, you don't have to remember, but if you can remember that they are actually sitting on and buried in so much shame and that's why they're doing what they're doing, it might help a little bit, but ultimately when someone's treating you poorly, I mean, gosh, it just hurts. So yeah, unless they have a level of awareness and they want to work with you on this and they want to work on your relationship, yeah, there's not a lot of hope there. Anyhow, okay, so this is narcissism explained. I am hoping this has been helpful for you. If you have any questions at all, of course, hit me up on social media. I'm happy to help you. If you want to go deeper, again, take this self-worth course. It was an incredible course for people. That's at theadultchair.com/self-worth. And if you want to continue doing your deep inner work, I am in my membership, the tech collective every single month. I do monthly masterclass. I do live coaching with you. Bring your issues. I will work with you. This is a great way to work with me. I'd love to be able to help you. I do a private podcast in there every month, the private audio. You get integration work. There's a lot. This is a beautiful space to work with other people that are on the same path as you. Those are the people trying to find and live more in their adult chair. So I'll put all that in the show notes, but the membership is theadultchair.com/collective. And that's all I've got for you guys. So, thanks for being with me today. Share any questions you have or podcast topics because I am making my big, big list and I look forward to sharing some more shows with you. All right, everybody. Love you, love you, and I'll see you right here next week in theadultchair. [MUSIC]