Napa Valley, According to Wine People

(upbeat music) Well, hello and welcome to the Wine Access Unfiltered Podcast. You guys, we've made it to season four. Can you believe it? I can, honestly, it's so much fun. Why would I stop this train? It's a great time. Season four is upon us, and of course, if you've been following our Instagram, you know that we've sort of been teasing out what this season's gonna be all about. We have had previous seasons be about how to be a savvy wine buyer. We've talked with some incredible people, like celebrities in season one and season two. But I felt like this season after many months of brainstorming, we wanted to lean into something that we already do really well besides drink wine, of course. And something that I thought maybe you guys would be interested in getting a little bit more insight on. I don't think this will come as a surprise to a lot of you because we talked quite a bit on this show about travel. But we are gonna be focusing on travel this season, not just going to wine region so. So we're gonna be talking about wine through the lens of travel. So talking about how wine people experience different cities, different regions, and giving you some insights into what that looks like because I think for me, when I travel to different regions, and I'm sure my guess is the same way. The first thing that we do when we know that we're going somewhere is we text or we call our wine people. Let me say, where are your favorite places to eat, where your favorite place is to drink? That does not mean just wine. That does include cocktails and coffee and beer and zake, if you're in a place that has great zake, like I just was. And it's gonna include a lot of other things as well. Like, hey, check out this great ceramics, Mark, or hey, there is a clothing shop that is all vintage that I think you would love. So it's really gonna be exploring some of the recommendations that we have to offer you as wine people, but it's also gonna be exploring the culture of drinking and eating in some of these places, which I think is equally as important. One of the things that I always wanna know when I'm traveling to any wine region is what should I be focusing on and what are the hidden gems? What are the things that I can't leave here without experiencing and what are some things that I may not find on my own? And so that's kind of what this season's gonna be all about, is helping you to get a little bit of insight before you go, maybe reflect upon some things after you've been back and get yourself excited about traveling to places that you may not have considered going to previously. So I thought we would kick off this season with an episode on a place that we are both intimately familiar with, a place that, of course, if you're listening to this podcast in the first place, you're probably somewhat familiar with, but a place that I think still has a lot of misconceptions, a place that you can revisit many, many times and still not quite figure out, even though it's not as big as people think it is. And drum roll, please, for our very first city destination, slash wine region is. Napa Valley. I know, some of you are like Napa Valley. I've been there. Oh, you have probably been there. It's amazing. I've been there too. I live there. And so has my guest, the one and only Laura Coffer, of Wine Access, my friend and fellow travel comrade. How you doing? I'm doing great. Kick 'em off, 2026, just with a ton of travel. It's been fantastic. But always, always great to come home. And so lucky that I call Napa Valley home and have for the past 14 years. So you've been there for 14 years. I lived there for 10 years before I left a couple years ago. And I kind of remember when this hit because obviously, Visania Place versus Living in a Place are different. But do you remember when Napa stopped feeling like a destination and started feeling like home for you and when, like, what happened in that moment? I think there's been a few inflection points for me that was like, oh, this is really where I live. And one of them early on was going to Yantville with I was working as a server at Morimoto in my mid-20s. And I remember going to Yantville with some other friends that first few months I lived here. And they were like, we're just gonna pop into Bouchon. Like, this was a restaurant I had read about. I had learned about. And we're just gonna pop it. It wasn't anyone's birthday. I know exactly what you mean. It was a Wednesday and it was, we weren't working. And it was the first, like, kind of sunny day in February. So we're gonna go inside and get a grand plateau and a bottle of champagne for just no other reason than, like, my foot. And I just remember that sitting there and like being like, oh my God, like, this is, this is just what we get to do with, 'cause we had an afternoon. And it's like this kind of spontaneous luxury. (laughs) Still, you know, it just kind of took me back. Like, oh wow, I get to do this at my fingertips if I want. So and then we walked across the street to Barna Sona and then we walked over to Voteg and had a cocktail. - Yes. - Like, who gets to, and then I slept in my own bed that night and went to work the next day. It was just part of-- - Like, it was totally normal. - Yeah. - That has a reputation for being very expensive and very luxurious. Both of those things are incredibly true. But I think the difference between Napa Valley and other places that are also expensive and luxurious is like, it feels very casual when you do it in Napa Valley. Like, it feels like this really lovely, attainable luxury because of all the reasons that you just mentioned. Like, you can walk to Bouchon from your hotel and have a grand plateau and have it feel very normal. And that is very normal, both for locals and for tourists. And I think that's like where the crossover is. Like, locals and tourists actually don't behave that differently. Like, when you live in Napa Valley, you do those things. Like, you have great backyard picnics, but even those backyard picnics are gonna have, like, freshly checked places, like really nice cheeses and like your beef is gonna be from somewhere really special. Like, the way that people eat and drink and live life in Napa Valley is so unusual as compared to the rest of the world. And I think when you're trying to explain Napa as compared to somewhere even like as close as Sonoma or Oregon, like, that's the key. That's the unlock right there is like, if you wanna have the things that you've seen on Instagram, like, if you wanna like bump caviar and then like, go have a slug of cabernet and then like, go have some oysters and then like, go to a farmer's market. But then also just like, you know, put a flannel shirt on and sitting your backyard. Sure, no problem. - I also think in that same week eight in the back of a grocery, Mexican grocery store. - Yes, yes. - So that was one of the freshest, most amazing bite, like three bites of food that, you know, like, as good, you know, in its own way. And you're like, this is also a part of this community. - I kinda wanted to start this episode and most of it, with just sort of cultivating an idea of what Napa Valley is to each of us who are gonna be on the show, because I think it helps to set the scene and expectations for how you should be feeling just in general, you know, sort of what that emotional connection is gonna be to a place. But I also wanna talk a little bit about the semantics and logistics of what Napa Valley is, where it is. So just in case if you've never been to Napa Valley, maybe you've heard of it. I don't know about you, Laura, but my very, where was the first time you heard of Napa Valley? - Okay, this comes to mind. I don't know if this is the first one, but big. - Move to Napa. - Oh, sexy, sexy, sexy, good city. - You take a Napa. - That could be my first cultural touchstone to Napa. - That's just what I want right now. - I love that. - Okay, no, I actually forgot about that one. That's such a good one. You don't go to Napa, you take a Napa. That's a good one. My first one was the Parent Shop, where, - Yeah, yeah, if it's a layer. - Yeah. - I think the Parent Shop, they live in Napa Valley, and you've seen Napa Valley, too. In a sense, I think everybody sort of has these pictures of what Napa Valley is in their minds, but I find that a lot of people don't really know what it is, because if you haven't been there, you don't realize that it's a solid 60 to 90 minute drive north of San Francisco, so it's part of the wider area known as the North Bay in California. On a good day, it can take you 16 to 90 minutes for going further north to San Luis, California. One of the reasons that I left, 'cause it took so long to get to the airport, it can be anywhere from two to three hours, and it's very small. Was it smaller than you realized when you started visiting or coming? Yeah. - Yes, it's like a straight shot up and down. It's really, the geography to navigate it is so simple. It's like, unlike other wine regions. Like this is two roads. - Yeah, it's super tiny. It's only about 30 miles from itself, about five miles as a crow flies east to west, those are general directions. And then you've got, it's literally a valley, so it's between two mountain ranges, the Voccas, the Mayacomis on either side. You have the Mayacomis that are splitting Napa Valley from Sonoma for the most part. So when people talk about Sonoma, Sonoma is quite close as a crow flies, but it's very difficult, not difficult, but it takes longer than you think it's going to get to go from Napa Valley or to Sonoma or vice versa, because you have to either transfer some mountain or, you know, go up or around is basically your option. And neither of them are shortcuts. In fact, I recommend going around if it is your first time visiting and you have a grumpy stomach like I do. So you've got that on one side. And then the other side that I think a lot of people don't know about, which is actually where I got married, is Sussune. So on the other side of the Valkyze, you've got Fairfield and Sussune Valley, kind of the lesser known of the Northern California wine regions, but it's where Kymus has their new facility and winery. And it's quite beautiful over there. So I do recommend popping over if you are still inclined. So that's sort of Napa Valley. But then at the base of Napa, where after the mountain stops, you have the Sam Pablo Bay, which is sort of moderating the entire region. So it's this very cold body of water that's pushing cold air up and down and giving you this really interesting shift every single night between temperatures. Laura, are you a fan of the super cold warm to cold night shifts? I love it. I like the consistency of it. It's like I know it's going to hit the 60s during the day, all year round. Even if it's just for an hour. And the cool mornings, I just really appreciate it. There's something so beautiful about that fog rolling in and rolling out. And it's just-- it is magical. It's great at night, where it cools off. It will always cool off. I can-- I'm sure you remember, too, getting out of work on those super hot summer nights for your like-- just dripping. You've been running around all night, but you're going to your car. It's had 11 at night, and it is like cool. With the exception of like a handful of those-- you're in like a crazy heat spell, if you know more talking temperatures north of 100, sometimes it won't tip quite as-- it's quite as low. But you're right. For the most part, they-- in Apple experiences what other wine regions experience from time to time, which is this diurnal shift. It's this shift in temperature between day and night, where if your daytime temperatures are, let's say, 85, 90 degrees by 6, 7 pm, that temperature can drop as low as 60 or even 50 degrees, depending on where you are in the season, which is great for the grapes. We love that from a wine-making perspective. But it's also-- it can be great for humans, too, if you love that. I'm kind of-- you know, I'm an East Coast girl that loves like warm summer nights. So sometimes I'd really love. But I do remember the very first time I came to Napavelli and I went to dinner at Bouchon in like a cute little sundress, because it was like 90 degrees. It was August. And I came outside and I was like, am I sick? Like, what is happening? Why is it so cold? So cold. Not realizing that it was-- I was in need of a jacket, because that's just what happens there. So-- I do tell people, bring layers. Like, you will experience-- especially if you're heading into San Francisco at all, you will experience all the seasons throughout the day. So like, bring a coat, like, nap, but gets-- it gets chilly at night, which is-- Yeah. --can be refreshing. It's, like I said, it's fairly small in size, but big in reputation. And it is the number-- well, I'm just going to call it. Bordeaux is going to be really angry. I think it's the number one region in the world for Cabernet's Sowingon. I think the reputation that Napa has built, you know, if we're just talking about Cabernet's Sowingon, reputationally, I think it's Napa. You may do a greater degree. I do agree. Look at me. Yeah. I mean, sitting in the middle of it. And there's great places to taste Cabernet, but then there's also great other things to find in this valley and that are peppered in, which are really fun. But yeah, we are known for Cabernet. If you come here, that cannot leave here without trying, at least a few, and like, and seeing it and being among it. So-- Cabernet is king. That was not always the case, though, that actually in the scheme of Napa Valley's history is a relatively recent phenomenon. These old guard wineries, Engelnook, they're ones that I would always recommend visiting, if not for the history alone, to just get a sense of how things used to be. And then, of course, you can go to, like, your more modern ones. A lot of people-- I'm sure you hear this a lot-- a lot of people love to, like, try to wing it in Napa Valley when they visit. Terrible. Terrible. Terrible. Terrible. I do. I was at a terrible idea, Laura. There was a time. This is where, like, I sound like I've been here forever. Like, you could. You could. And one thing I said, like, when I moved here, I'd love to, like, go to a winery, kind of pop in an ounce. Like, I work in the valley, and like, you get a free taste. Those days seem to be a little bit behind us. And like, you have to make appointments. That's just kind of the world Napa lives in now. And you have to book it in advance. And that's-- but you get a better experience because they expect you, they're ready for you, and all those things. So, yes, book ahead. I would say-- so my recommendation is, like, wherever you're going to stay in the valley, kind of look at it on a map. And then you want to plan your days where you work your way back towards your hotel. Like, kind of start further away, and, like, book your days. So you're traveling towards your hotel. You're traveling towards dinner. Because although it's not huge, like, you just don't want to end up having an hour and a half drive after your last tasting to dinner. Like, you want to, like, kind of fall into the restaurant. And be ready to eat. Because you have to keep it rolling. You have to keep it rolling. And traffic can get a little squirrely, depending on season. Only-- only for roads. Everyone's going to go in the valley. Everyone's going to dinner. If, like, your first time coming out, you book, like, one of those big historic ones. It's going to give you a lot of perspective about the valley. It's going to give you an idea about, like, the classics. And then pepper in a fun, you know, newer one, or one, like, you're curious about, and try to, like, do it geographically. Like, you don't want to be spending a whole lot of time going up one mountain, and then the back down one mountain, and then up another mountain. So that is a way to, kind of, think about planning your nap a valley day. And also, I think people try to do too many. Like, this is vacation. This should be fun. It shouldn't be stressful. You shouldn't be, like, rushing to get anywhere. You want to leave time for that spontaneity, the time to stop and take a photo at the-- the nap a valley sign, or, like, see the train, or stop at Oakville grocery, and have a really great espresso. Like, I think you need to build in downtime. There's nothing worse than feeling Russian, nap a valley. No. Like, oh, I don't even like to do that. And I work here. Yeah. And there's cool tasting rooms. I think more now than there were when I moved to, there were more tasting rooms downtown. Yeah, that's true. That you can, if you can't get into that winery, you really wanted to go to, like, check out a tasting room downtown. There are some great ones. And those you can just walk into. But winery visits need an appointment. You know, even the last 10, 15 years, things have changed. Kind of in a way that we're seeing in, like, New York, for example, you used to just be able to pop into restaurants, pop into bars. Now you kind of need a reservation for anywhere of, quote unquote, importance, right? If you want to go to a bar that's on the World Safety Best List, or, you know, one of the best that people talk about at Tales of Cocktails, like, those are places that are reservation only or that you need to go early and get appointments for. And the same is true for nap a valley. Now, nap is a little bit different in that this really stemmed from the county trying to control how many visitors and really, you know, keeping a close eye on the footprint and making sure that nothing is, you know, that we're not overpopulating, we're not over saturating. And so there's, there's literal visitation limits that these wineries have that I'd think maybe if people understood that that was the case, they might be a little bit more amenable to the situation. But literally, like, you know, for example, winery is kind of, some wineries have permits to say, we can only see five people a day or 20 people a week. And so that's why it's so important that you make your appointments ahead of time. There's also the 1968 agricultural preserve that has kept things from expanding. So if you're wondering, like, there's a huge plot of land over there. Why can't I just like plan a vineyard or like build another taste? Like, there's all this whole place is an agricultural preserve, which means there's not a lot that you can do to it that hasn't already been done. So there's a lot of limitations that these wineries experience and they're really beholden to the county and to the state in what they're allowed to do. So bear with these places. They're not trying to be difficult. They're just, you know, they're just trying to play by the rules and not have little suits slapped on them, like several have had. It keeps Napa looking and feeling the way it does. Totally. There's nothing-- something so special about going to a winery and like feeling like you're the only ones there. Just because they've coordinated it, so like you actually never see other guests. Even though there are other guests there, like they move you through in such a way, like it's just special feeling you can get. And the tasting room thing is a good tip, both if you want to visit a specific winery that can't get you into see the actual winery. But also, there's a lot that are opening up that are sort of aggregate. So they have-- you can taste multiple different wineries under one-- I know one just opened in St. Alina. There's a few in Delta Napa. So those are always good to look at as well, because a lot of those guys, they're friends or they're similarly styled. So if you like one, you'll probably like the other. So it's a good way to sort of taste your mouth. Just nice. And one big tip I would give anyone coming to Napa, and this is so hard. I was like, this is so hard for people to hear. But you do not have to drink everything. That's true. Man, you must have heard that too. Like if people are-- no, I don't want to waste it. It's not, you're there to taste, you're there to experience it. You're, it's not an insult to not drink it all. It's not like no one's going to be offended if there's wine still in the glass. And you're, the money is to experience it, not to drink it in a way. I don't know. That's a tough one. But you can have a, you'll have a better three days here. You'll definitely have a better three days. And I, I would actually say the inverse is true in a sense that like they won't, they'll not only not be offended. They'll actually be like more motivated. Yeah. Like they're more impressed by you not drinking than like you, like throw it back. Like when I say people throw it back, I'm like, oh God, brace yourself. It's going to be ugly in like 30 minutes, right? Because they're either going to be, I'm going to be cleaning up the bathroom or I'm going to have to be like calling the driver to be like, can you please come get this person who's passed out? And we'd see that at press all the time. You know, it like literally, and I'm sure you did too, like literally every Friday and Saturday, there would be someone I would walk into the bathroom and like someone was unwell in the bathroom. You're like, all right. Well, kids, they too much again. Candy, it does. He rolled again. There was the four top that showed up as three or the six top of the five. Exactly. So it did exactly. And it didn't make it, you know, you go, I tell people when they come here, your goal is to hit up cadet at the end of the night. Like that's a finish line, you know? And like if it means like taking it easy at 10 a.m. tasting, that's what you got to do. It is. Well, a full day. That's a perfect segue because I wanted to jump into how Napa actually drains because this when I'm, I use to tell people, you know, I lived in Napa Valley and they're like, oh, so much Cabernet. Like you must be drinking cab all day every day. You're already shaking your head because you know, it's not true. Not that we don't drink Cabernet when you live in Napa Valley. But when you're sort of surrounded by it all the time and it's what most people are either working with or serving or, you know, doing, doing something in some capacity with by the time we actually get around to drinking like for pleasure, not for work. Cabernet is last in our list and you see that in a lot of places like cadet and like Chispa, right? These are all places that you go to not drink Cabernet. So we go on. And I think that's one of the things that you can lean into if you're visiting like if you've been drinking Napa Cab throughout your entire day, which is very likely and totally fine, although we will give you some tips on how to break it up if you'd like. By the time you get to the restaurants, most of the restaurants are going to have other things that are not Cabernet swimming on. And I, I would encourage you to branch out a little bit because these are the places that are going to have things that you probably won't be able to get elsewhere. And I think one of those wines is the wine that we've got for the wine club. So for those of us who are, for those of you who are drinking with us, you should have a bottle of the Bordeaux-Mare from Carnaire. So this is technically a Sonoma County, but the wine maker lives in Napa, works in Napa. Yeah. And works primarily with Cabernet, so when you own, but this is his, he's Italian. And this is like his love letter to his roots. And it's 100% vermin tea, which is an Italian grape. And but it's grown here. And so it really like tells his story through this glass. And it's so refreshing. It's so, it's like salted plums, like a little bit of like sea spray. It has this like nice, racy electric line through it that is so refreshing. It's tasting. And I think they have it. I'm not mistaken. Maybe it like Scala downtown. Yeah, they have it. I actually looked it up. They have it at, um, by the glass of brasswood. And it's also at your old stomping ground by the bottle. Oh, yeah. I'm not surprised at all the tale of the owners, very good friends with the former wine director, Louie. I think that's how I met whom, which is also like a fun Napa game of like who worked where with me and that's true. I used to think it was like, we were like, it was like a big college campus here. And like, either you worked in like the wineries or like the, you know, the restaurants and they were just like, you're, you're, your crews. That's actually another maybe good point. Not that anybody should ever be shitting on anyone, but God forbid you have a bad time somewhere. Um, and you want a bitch about that to someone you should be very aware that we probably, or whoever you're telling, probably knows that person. Yes, or know someone who knows that person. Uh, it's also very likely that they will communicate that. So I'm just letting you know, it happened a lot. People, you know, and like sometimes that's a good thing. Sometimes like we want to know like, did you have a bad experience somewhere? Like, please let me know. Like that's always good communication. But, you know, just buy or beware. Be aware. Be aware. News travels fast enough. I used to tell staff that too. Like just, yes, they're, they might, they may even be sitting behind you in this restaurant. Yes. The owner of that winery that you did not enjoy. And unless you want to tell them right now. Yes. If you're seeing it out loud, you should. Yeah. That small town feel is very much alive and well. But yeah, we get this like there's also, but also you can use that kind of to your advantage too. If you're in a tea room and you're really connecting with somebody and like, where do you want? We think where should we go to dinner? Like we have a good night. They will, you know, we, we are all hospital. We're all in a hospitality and we all want to make everyone else look good and feel good. So like the tasting in person may introduce you to another winery to a restaurant and like, you'll be surprised how quickly they are to like send a text message and you know, like find you a reservation. Like it's, it's incredibly common. Like you come here with an open mind and doors, doors seem to open up. Yeah. It's, and it's not even like an economic thing. Like it's, it's more of like a passion, but gets passion kind of thing where it's like if you see, like if I saw someone was really, really passionate about somewhere, like I wanted to, I wanted to open doors. I wanted to move heaven and earth to make sure that they were had a really great time in Napa Valley. So, you know, if you're sitting here thinking like, Oh, I don't have $500 to spend, even if it's $100, right? Even if it's, you know, if it's something that like you're really passionate about, I think communicating that to someone, yes, at a restaurant or another winery is always a great idea. Yeah. Let them know. Let them know you love what they do. People love to hear that. I want to hear more of it. So we get very excited when people ask questions and like show an interest in the place we live and the place we work and what we do. We encourage people to come here and it's doable on a budget. It's doable. Like you just, just proper planning. That's true. I mean, we've talked about how extensive it is, but like, you know, the, if you're not, don't, first of all, if you're in a budget, just don't come during high season, which is basically August to October, right? Come in the slightly off season, which is still like, unless you're coming like January, which I find to be beautiful, the weather's probably still going to be really nice. You're probably just not going to pay the crazy hotel prices unless you're here for like auction app of Valley, a premier and app of like a wheat or bottle rock, like a week where there's like a lot going on. You can find some pretty good hotel deals and there's some really great small boutique hotels scattered up and down the valley, like, you know, Albonita is like one of the great hidden gems. I've seen a lady at some hotel, but people love Albonita. In fact, my in-law stayed there for our wedding. I mean, I had a, had a great visit. Pallyhouse or a lipidate Pally has a new place up in St. Louis as well. There's, and there's places, you know, where you can find a good deal. The only thing that I would sort of weren't, not warn you, but warn you is like, when you're researching hotels, a lot of times you see hotels that are in like American Canyon or Vallejo that are still listed as Napa Valley. They're not what I would consider part of Napa Valley, quote unquote, but, you know, there's still kind of technically part of Napa County. So just, you know, take a peek on a map and see where those places are located because they're probably further than you think that they are. And that's a tool and it's entirely possible to stay in American Canyon and visit Napa Valley. Just totally fact, just factor it into your time and, and those things. But yeah, there's definitely, yeah, looking at a map is, is key. I think visiting any region is like figuring out like you're where you, where you are and how long it takes to get from place to place and building, yeah, building your Google map. I was going to say that if you're not building a Google map for yourself in every single region that you're visiting, like you're just, you're doing it wrong. Like I'm telling you right now, the, the go to the Google map, there, there's no app that can compete with Google maps. I'm just, there's just the best. I have literally one from every city and I always make notes in the places like who recommended it? I will make notes after the fact like, did I enjoy it? What I send people here again, like what dishes did I enjoy? Like it's just the perfect record locator. And then it's also the perfect way to induce a little spontaneity. If you find yourself in Yonville and you're like, oh, I didn't anticipate being here, but there's three spots on my list that I wanted, one of which is coffee. Great. Like that works out well for everybody. You're getting caffeinated and checking things off your list. Dining, you don't have to do, you can have great meals without doing, you know, without all the stars. There's great, great dining. All of the food is good. You know, a picnic is a great way to spend an afternoon. So totally. That Navavelle is accessible, even if it feels a little bit aspirational. It's still going to feel more expensive than I think you wanted to. So just brace yourself. You know, like I think if you're coming from like Philadelphia, for example, like things are going to be about. 30% more in Avavelli. It's just, it is what it is. The difference is it's going to be the best damn avocado you've ever had in your entire life, 100%. It's, it's, it's going to look in a menu like it's too much money. It's not. It's the right price, I promise. And you can bar, I think you can like dine around a little bit more than people want to admit here. Like you don't have to commit to a full meal anywhere. You can sit at the bar. That's true. Most of the restaurants have bars, have special bar menus you've been and like, if you can be disciplined about like one, one dish and share glass of wine and then move on, you can really experience so much of Napa in short amount of time. No, it's, it's how I do it, especially like I remember when my parents first came to town, I just started dating my no husband. He did exactly that for them. He took us all around to go into a bearge. We went to Salad, we went to Bouchon. When we just went to all these different places to have, you know, one bite, one glass and then we kept it moving. And it was so nice. And my mom still talks about that as like her favorite way to dine. And I think it's such an easy thing to do in Epivali. Now make sure that you are being very safe and having some sort of designated gyrosome sort. Uber because Uber also a great call. You're going to drink more than you think. You're going to spend more than you think. It just says what it is. We're going to have the best time. She's a great at the best time. I want to talk a little bit about the champagne and beer of it all. I think, you know, Vermintino is obviously something that we're drinking here, which is lovely and so fun. And like one of these wines that when I was running the program at press, that you were so excited to find, because we weren't all in Epivali, all California wine list. And we were so excited to find things like this. And it's a great hack. If you're dining out to look at the BTG list and see what they have, that's either from California, from Epivali. That's not. Cabernet is something on because it's likely that there's probably like, I don't know, 100 cases. If that produced of it, and it probably is never going to make it outside of California. And so it's a great way to taste other things. But the reason I bring up the champagne and beer of it all is like, let's say you do want something that's not Cabernet or not even Epivali. The best kept secret, I think in Epivali is it's like, I think Epivali probably consumes more champagne than any other wine producing region on the planet. So much champagne. So much champagne. Just so obsessed with champagne. So if you love champagne or if you're using about champagne, take a peek at the champagne list because we have one at press. That was like our thing we had. I'm sure you did too. At Batega. We always had a secret champagne. Even though we were 100% Epivali, we always had a secret champagne list because it was what the locals and the whimakers wanted to drink. So they would have to ask for it. Now you don't have to ask for it. But champagne is very much a thing in Epivali. So if you're like, if you're going there and you're like, oh, you know, I really, you'll be in great shape if you love champagne. You'll find champagne. Yes. Yes. And really good champagne. Like things that you can't normally get. Mostly because the people who are bringing it to the people who are importing it into California are very aware of the demand for champagne in Epivali. We just can't, we can't produce it. You can't be replicated. And so it must be purchased. It must be imported. It must be brought in. And we drink it. Yeah. We really cleanse it's the palate. It's good before a meal. It's good after a meal. It's, you know, yeah, it's definitely everywhere. And most of the restaurants now have a pretty pretty nice selection of like unique, interesting champagne and people are happy to chat about them. The other thing is beer. You know, you're in Northern California, which is a hotbed for breweries in general. So obviously Russian river brewing over in Sonoma. Very, very famous. I will also forgive me for anyone who is such a huge fan like I am, but I always I have to mention it. It's not in Epivali, but if you were like on route to Napivali at the intersection of 121 and Lakeville Highway, there is the the tiniest little bar called Ernestin bar. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's, it's only Porta Potties. They don't have like a they have a rotary phone. There's like actual taxidermy on the roll. This place has like the best selection of beer on the planet. Like I said, it is fully in Sonoma. It is not in Epivali, but on your way over or on your way back if you were a beer drinker, this is a place to stop. But when you are in Napivali, you will find some incredible beer over there again, because a lot of the my makers and the people who work in this industry love to drink beer because it is such a big part of the culture. Where do you stand on the beer front? I do like beer. I do. I don't drink a lot of it, but like I'm yeah, but fan and I think there's some bad friends in Napivali is making makes some really beautiful stuff. Hanabi is another fun. Yeah. Napa small. If you can find it, very cool beer. Why is it cool though? This is this is a great little hack I think. It's the wine maker for screaming eagle. Yes. It makes it. And he's also like a fire, fire works enthusiast. So Hanabi is fireworks in Japanese. And it's just a really refreshing, fantastic beer that's got a lot of flavor to it. It's delicious. And now you can get it the new punches. This is one of my favorite things just to have my digniness. What do I do? Happy of Guinness and Pontches. Oh, wow. It's beautiful. And it's perfect. You know at the end of a meal. Oh, in the winter when it's rainy out. So cool. And draft. Yeah. They just reopened, right? I mean, they've been closed for years now. They just reopened. It is amazing. It's amazing. That is such that is a local spot. Even in its new iteration is a local spot in Yachtville. It's a bar. There's Taco truck at the parking lot. It is newly refinished, but yeah, they have Guinness on draft. But it sits right next to Chichio, which is another great Italian restaurant in Yachtville. That Christopher Costello took over a couple of years ago. It was, it was always very good and always beloved by locals, but Costello took it over. And I think it's fantastic. And if you want to make it really good, like Neil Paul Stumpitas. And he does like really cool collabs there too. Like he did a collab with Evan Funky from LA. That was amazing. That's, you know, Yachtville in a lot of ways is just really like the hotbed for food and wine and beverage. Like that's sort of the center of it all. St. Helena is the quieter of the towns. But there's a lot to offer up there as well. You've got Charleys. The St. Helena answer to Pontches is Anna's Cantina. Yep. Which is, you know, another sort of dive bar that most of locals will frequent. Your feet kind of stick to the ground. It's gross. But you'll meet lots of locals there. And it's a good time. Absolutely perfect. And it's perfect. You've got Cook Up There, which is fantastic. The Charter Oak, which is Costello's other restaurant. Brasswood a little further north. Press obviously in St. Helena if you want to do the Michelin Stardre Route. There's just, there's so many options in the food department. Whether like you said, you want to go for Michelin or you want to do Taco Truck. Like honestly, the world's kind of your oyster. And if you're going to do the picnic route, which is always great would it go. Just make sure you get approval from wherever you're going to be picnic. Sunshine. Sunshine Market in St. Helena. What do you, what do you crave when you come back here? When you're like avocados. But where are there any dishes, are there any dishes in Napa Valley? You're like, I, oh yeah. I'm only here for two days. I want to go get this dish at this restaurant. Yeah. I mean, my first stop always when I'm back is the bar of Charleys for a springmonton citrus martini. And then the like potato skins with the fancy ranch caviar situation. And then also there, they do these like they call them broiled oysters or barbecue oysters. That's what they're they're amazing. Amazing. I would I would need a charleys like every day when I'm there outside of that. It's gods. Like I I honestly crave like gods, um, Poke tuna tacos. And which like if you're looking at this place, you're like, this is a roadside stand. Why would you wear? I'll be doing the talk. I'm so good. It's so good. You like you guys, you cannot under you, you won't understand it until you go there. But like, to me, like, gods is the greatest gift in Napa Valley because it per I think it also in addition to all the things you talked about, it perfectly encapsulates what this place is, which is like weird attainable luxuries that shouldn't exist that do. And so this place is like it literally like it's outdoors. It is a roadside place. It used to just be burgers. But now, you know, Joel got has made it this place where like the food is outstanding. Like the it's the freshest salads that you'll ever have. Like everything is cooked super fresh. The fries are amazing. You can get like you can get like plenty of the elder there. Like like, like, like, the years that you cannot get at other places anywhere are just like very casually on Jaffaare. You can get champagne there. You can get like the best milk shake made of your life from Strauss milk, which is bestiary in California, maybe the world. There is so much that gods has to offer that I think I probably miss more on a daily basis here than anywhere else that when I'm when I'm back in Napavali, like it's the first place we go to for lunch and I mean, there's I mean, there's a ton of dishes that I miss all the time. If you like, name me any spot in Napavali and I'm like, that's what ain't there. That's what ain't there. And you're probably the same. The mozzarella from Brasswood. Yeah. Always always delicious. Salmon Riyadh, from Bhushan. The same in Riyadh is just a classic. And it's always so good. Yes. Yeah. - Oh, Diga, I miss the rabbit ray Tony or the Niochi. Octopus from Latakiza. Mother's talkings for tacos. Like I could like work my way down the valley and be like, if I came here for one day, like what I would have, but yeah, what would you do? - That's definitely like, they do a good salad. And Latzaberna or, well, Zuzu, Zuzu just, yeah. - I would have a hard time pointing the direction of a bad restaurant in Appa Valley. Like somewhere that I was like-- - Do you want me to list those? - Yes, do it. Nobody's listening, no. No, I mean, there's definitely, you know, like any place is definitely, there's definitely like, me. (laughs) You might not have the best diet, but most places are doing a great job. Like, you're gonna struggle to find shitty food in Appa Valley, mostly because like, they're starting with the best ingredients. And I mean, that's maybe the other thing to mention is like as much as you're paying attention to what you're drinking, pay attention to what you're eating because a lot of times the purveyors of some of these, you know, some of these meats, for example, like flanery beef was what press used exclusively for years. And now that's become a global phenomenon, but it really started at press. And in fact, if you want to listen to that whole origin story, it's great because I just had Katie Flanery on the podcast a couple of months ago. That's a great example of like, you know, something I would not have discovered if not for an Appa Valley. Now it's obviously quite famous, but I think there's a lot of that when you dine out in Appa Valley because the chefs are so ingredient obsessed that they will find the best of the best. And that's a cool thing to notice when you're there. - And they note them on the menu. So it's like as you're eating, like if you keep seeing like, how girl creamery, like you keep seeing flanery beef, it's like, oh, like this is, this is no worthy. And can I get the shift to wherever I live with my wife? - Yes. And honestly, a lot of times you can't, like I get, I literally just had flanery beef for dinner and lunch today. Like I have it, it's, it's an upset. I can, the avocados are still subpar, but we can still get the good beef. (laughing) - Yeah, you do what you can, you do what you can. But like, yeah, there's, there's purveyors, there's producers of food here in Appa that like that do travel well that you can, you know, you can get a little taste of it back home. Which is important when you're bringing the wine back home, which hopefully you're, you know, you're purchasing wine when you go to these different wineries. A lot of the wineries will ship the wines for you depending on what state you live in. But there's also ways to do it that are not, but like you can always, also, I don't know how many people know this, you can check wine onto your plane. Just ask for a, it's called a shipper. So it's a box with like a, you know, styrofoam protective inserts for the wines, get it all taped up, and you literally just check it. Right onto the plane. And it's a great way to go if you want to bring wine home. You can also go to some of the different like, like Adam's street shipping, for example. That's a great place. They'll pack it up for you for it. It's expensive, but you know, it's usually 150 bucks to ship a case of wine. But if you don't want the hassle of doing it, or if you're only, you know, buying one thing here, one thing there, that's a great way to go. Just make sure that when you are, if you are bringing wine home from the winery, please don't leave it in your car. I feel like it's the worst. You see it a lot, right? - I do. - Yeah, and it's like the bottle's hot. It's like you've ruined it. - Yeah. - You've ruined it. And yeah, a shipper, especially if you're spending upwards of 100 on a bottle, it's 10 bucks per bottle to ship it home like, - Yeah. - Yeah, spend the money. - Do it. - You know, spend the money. And I would say if you're traveling during the warmer months, do what you can to get it on that plane versus shipping it, because shipping it in hot months is really, really challenging. And there's never a guarantee that it's going to get there in the time that you wanted to get there, that the ice packs aren't going to die inside. I avoid shipping wine at all costs between the months of June and August, or does I still try it? But usually by the time the wine gets to me, those ice packs are all. We haven't talked about like one perfect nap a day. So start to finish, you clone yourself. And I think this is probably something we'll keep doing across this season. So Laura, offer you clone yourself and you're taking yourself on one perfect day. How does it start and what do you do? - I'd go for a hike, you know, down in Napa. There's definitely some places you can get up to pretty easily, some walks, you can see the bay, you can on a really clear day. - I want to know specifically where you're going hiking. - Westwood Hills, which is right here. Up the hill, you can see down to the bay, which is nice. There's also a hike at Hudson on their ranch. That you can open to the public, you can reserve a walk. - That's cool. - So yeah, and that would probably be a good start too. Depending on the season, Hudson is great. They have beautiful gardens. And like in the fall, you can see the pumpkins and the gourds that they're doing. I think it's a great experience and a way to see like carneros. I would definitely head up to Oakville. I would stop at the sign, take a picture with me and my twin, my clone. - Okay. - Just to commemorate it. - Sure. - I would see if I could get into like something fancy and fun like a pro-mentorior and opus one. - Just to like, yeah. - Hit the pinnacle, you know? - They are impressive. And they're part of like the history and what this valley is in a way. Like it's, in like to contrast that what's up, please like Hudson, that's mainly a grown one. And like does, you know, you know, and chart and chart. And it's like other things and grows vegetables. Like another kind of like vision of Napa. And that would have one of these places in Oakville that would be super impressive. Oakville grocery after that. Or some bites, espresso, recharge. There's also great little tasting, you know, if I wanted to taste some other wines right there. And then I'd probably head to Yantville for, you know, like an afternoon through Yantville maybe. - Like a little walk. Like a little walk. - Yeah. Like go to the French one. - Okay. - For gardens for sure. - Naturally. - Walk the gardens there. And probably finish up either like Donji of Ones for dinner, just such an iconic Napa Valley spot. It's so beautiful. - It's so nice. - And then head downtown to like could at, or come play for the night. - Yeah. - And then just see, see what's going on. Like right now there's Napa lights. So there's all light installations and art installations downtown, something that winter. It's a really fun thing to see. So yeah, like, carnaros up to Oakville, Yantville and back. - I love it. What about you? What's your perfect day? - Mine will be in St. Helena. So ideally, if I'm not like at home, I'm staying at like, you know, I stayed at, I love Mettowood and I love staying at Mettowood. The downside of Mettowood is like you're a little, like you're not within walking distance to Main Street. So like if I'm staying at Mettowood, and like order, they have bottle bakery English muffins for room service, I would order that. But I will say I had a great experience at Alila, which is walkable to downtown. So I would say if I'm staying at Alila, I'm waking up, I'm going down to station to go get coffee and pastries of some sort. I might stop a model on the way back for a breakfast burrito. This is gonna involve a lot of eating, by the way. So coffee pastries, some sort of the model bakery breakfast burrito, without standing, some of my favorites. And actually the station one is too. Take that back, eat it overlooking the vineyards shower, get ready. I'm with you. I would definitely take myself to like one of the fancier places, I think, promontory and opus are great calls for that. I might even like go up to Pritchard Hill to somewhere like really with beautiful views. Like brand is really nice. I also always love going up to continuum, like really far up there, Shappelay. Just to like get that really beautiful warning view of the valley, which is nice. I do love a good hike. I was in a hiker when I lived there, but now having gone back, my friend Scott has wild bind tours and so he's taking me on a few bike rides and hikes that I really enjoy. So there might be like a mid morning, mid afternoon hike of some sort through the park there through buffet. I would, this is tough. I think I would have lunch at Charter Oak. I think I would zoom back for lunch at Charter Oak. They do a great lunch menu, have awesome salads. If I wanted to sit down, if I were in more of a rush, I would do a call ahead order at Gots, and I would do Poke Tune and Tacos at Gots, then I'd go to another winery. I might go to Frogs Leap because just so lovely and perfect. Yeah, that's one of my favorites, or like a classic like Ingolnook. And then I would probably venture into Yountville for a little walk, maybe in espresso, cocktail up Ushan, and then I would finish at the bar at Charley's, having dinner there. Big day. Yeah. I think we can do this. This can happen. We can do this. We can do it. What do you mean it can't happen? This happens all the time. This is-- This is like a great day to be belly. I know. I know. Yeah, you just have to pop home to like move the laundry. And like-- Like stop at the post office and like that. Yeah, it's life. you can hang your laundry outside and it's no problem. That's one of my favorite, many things that I miss about living in Appa Valley, but putting my laundry out and then it's so dry there 'cause it's like a desert. (laughing) When we did our wedding, it was really sort of, it involved all the places that made us fall in love with Appa Valley and so it was, we did, I think at the cameo, Tarles did chicken nuggets and caviar for us. It was just like an amazing thing. We did our wedding over and so soon it came as, Chuck had been such a big part of my life when I was at press and has just been a great friend and then our Sunday, we went to Gots and did their private space for just like a little party and it was just so nice and it just, it reminded me of why I love Appa Valley and what makes it so special. But all the things that we talked about were involved. Everything from tacos to, oh God, I forgot, I forgot one of my favorites, re-raise tacos in St. Helena. Have you had a re-raise breakfast? (gasps) Laura. - Check it right now. - It's too late. - Right now. It's not too late. They do Austin's diet breakfast tacos. I am not a breakfast person. I am definitely not like breakfast tacos never sound appealing to me. Her, I don't know what she is doing to these tacos. They're so good. They're so, my mom felt the same age. We are identical and a lot of the things that we feel about food but she was the same way and we have them the morning of our wedding getting, my mom was like, I don't know about like breakfast tacos. I'm telling you, this is my meal before I get married and she had it the day before and she was like, oh my God, what is this taco? She couldn't read to have it the morning that we, that we were getting ready for my wedding 'cause they're so good. I don't know if it's like, it's the tortilla, it's the scrambled eggs, it's avocado, it's everything. There's just something so perfect. So, there you go. Yeah, really, it's tacos. - I'll have to make it up there for, it's always exciting. That's what's cool about Napa. There's always like a new thing to try. - Yeah, a new bite to be had. - Yeah, it is amazing for like such a small place. How much there always is to you. And I'm always amazed at, even though there's always been a lot of crossover between like you and me and our love our friends, there's always like, great rays and there's always somewhere that we're like, I don't even heard of that place. - Yeah, it's amazing. There's always, it is never ending. There's so much talent here and great produce and like, I love for cuisine that you're like, it's inevitable that someone's making something new. Definitely. - Classic, it's always gonna be there. So yeah, we're so lucky. - Here's the good news in the bad news. The bad news is we're out of time. The good news is this is the first of many episodes to come on other places that we love to travel. So, why don't, since you told me that you have some place, like some travel coming up, where are you going? - Definitely a European trip. - This spring. - Not exactly sure which and where. - Okay, I will be in Europe as well this spring. So do you let me know? - Maybe a little Mexico city. - Little horizon. - Certainly some New York, some East Coast time. And yeah, I think that's kind of like, you know, putting it out in the world. Like I'd love to go back to South America this year. - Okay. - I need to get back to Spain just for my own wellbeing. - Sure. - So yeah, I'm kind of like, those are the, those are the things that I'm hoping for. I'm gonna see what happens. I was able to do the Danube this last year, which was really interesting. - Right, you did the cruise, right? - Really great experience to see a lot of countries very quickly and like a lot of food and wine in like rapid fire succession. - Yeah, I'm hoping, you know, Italy and Spain are in the cars this year. - I am willing this for you. And then wave it, I will go to Hawaii last year for you and Germany for myself. And unbeknownst to both of us at the time, we put it out in the universe and we ended up going to both of those places, I think at the exact same time. Yeah. - So where do you wanna go this year? - Well, I'm gonna be in Nashville next week, which I'm actually very excited about. I've never been in Nashville. - Me neither. - Obviously, I just got back from Tokyo, so there will be like I mentioned, a Tokyo Japan episode, but on the docket so far, we have a trip to Bordeaux, London. And I think I am confirmed for Nantucket, wine and food this year. So, Nantucket, I actually, I had never been in Nantucket until this past year and I loved it. I'm so stoked to go back because it actually is such a wine, savvy town or island, whatever you wanna call it, island. I loved everything about Nantucket, but I think the thing that I loved the most was that it was such a great place to live and a great place to drink. And those two things don't necessarily always go hand in hand. The wine scene was outstanding there, so I'm really looking forward to going back and diving in a little bit deeper and hopefully coming out of it with a great episode for you guys. So that's very good. - When I have so far. Yeah. Big 2026 ahead. - Yes. - I wish you the best. - Me too. - And I continue to try to navigate this Japan jet lag. That is continuing to kick my ass almost a week later, but here we are. I'm excited for all of it. And hopefully you guys are excited as well if you are not drinking with us. Guys, it's season four episode one. Just as January, get on it. Fix yourself right now. You wanna get on this train. You can find everything you need to join in the description below. It's 120 bucks plus tax, including shipping and you get 10% off all of your wine access purchases. So it's basically free. Hey, you get to drink lovely wines like this Bordamari vermentino that we had today. This is so delicious. And I know that it's delicious. I've had a full glass which I never have on the show. Not that all of our wines are delicious, but this one's going down a little too easy. - Super easy. - It's easy. Super easy. I'm playing the weather. All right, Laura, I wish you the best. Thank you so much. I'm jealous that you're in Napa Valley and that I'm not. Let me know when you want to meet a gods. - Oh, thank you. I'll bring the champagne because you can be I-O-D. - Yeah, all right, cheers.