Name Redacted Podcast Episode 113: Rock Bottom

[MUSIC] >> You're listening to Draft King's Network. [MUSIC] >> Ortiz fights it on center field. Damon run into Mike and he can keep on running to New York. [MUSIC] >> It's a fall. Red Sox players are rolling here. The Boston Red Sox are world champions. >> I can't sure if I don't have my illustrator today, but I think of the pitch, I see it. >> [INAUDIBLE] >> Welcome back to the name redacted podcast. America's most beloved podcast. The most downloaded Red Sox podcast in the world. I'm here, Tyler's here, Jake's here. We are about call it two hours after the Red Sox got swept by the Toronto Blue Jays. And we were planning on recording around this time anyway. But normally what we would do is the game would end. We would wait for Alex Corden to speak and then we would go. For this particular episode, even if we have the ability to record around that time, which is probably what? Like 35 minutes after the final out, give it a take. >> Yeah, right around there. >> I think we needed a little bit of time to decompress and mull over our thoughts and not act too emotionally. And I'm not saying that I'm going to walk back anything that I said on Twitter during the game or after the game. I'm not going to do that. But I think for me, it's less coming into the show with anger and more just, we'll just talk about it. Like I feel like there are a lot of Red Sox fans right now that they're looking for a therapy pod. And they're going to get it. You're going to get a therapy pod because when we do talk about these games, I feel like normally we will break down the starting pictures performance in certain place. I think we're just going to have to talk big picture. We can talk about some of the things that happened in this series. No doubt because some of the things that happened in this series need to be singled out for sure. But this past weekend has been more about big picture. It's been more about specific incidents that have nothing to do with baseball. There's just a lot of things going on. And maybe you wanted to hear the fire and the anger and the passion in our voices. But I think it's actually worse. It's almost like when your parents are like, I'm not mad. I'm disappointed. That's worse. I feel like that's where I'm at with the Red Sox. They just got swept. They were two games out of a wild card spot chasing the Toronto Blue Jays coming into this series. And I remember I tweeted before the series started. Fenway better be loud as fuck this weekend because these are basically playoff games. Like you are going into Fenway Park for essentially a playoff series against the Toronto Blue Jays. If you sweep, you leapfrog them, two games back, no teams in front of you besides Toronto. And then you get swept. And now there are three teams in front of you that you have to leapfrog in order to get a postseason spot, a wild card spot. So it feels like to me, uh, things are pretty bad. And it's not just the fact that they got swept. It's the nature surrounding the sweep. It is we're going to talk about the Alex Verdugo stuff. We're going to talk about Trevor's story, not coming back yet. And finishing out his rehab assignment down in Worcester. And I, I feel like I'm teasing it as if I'm going to like ridicule him for that. But um, there are some angles that we can go with for that conversation in particular. Uh, the mistakes that were made in this series by the Boston Red Sox. And I don't know, just the overall energy around the team. Like having Biden go today, I went Friday, Saturday and shout out to Toronto Blue Jays fans. Like they showed up. It's a real blue jay everywhere. It was almost like they were everywhere. And the, the Mets always travel well. Um, the Astros always travel well. The Cubs travel well for those series. I've never, I've never, I've been going to Fenway Park for 30 years. And I've never seen the Blue Jays fans show out the way that they did this past weekend. So on one hand, it's two sides to it. On one hand, I want to commend them because hey, like they see a team that they're excited about and they're supporting them and they're there and they're cheering for their team. Uh, I also ran into a bunch of them. They were all super nice. No one was like chirping or anything. They were just, you know, they were, they're supporting their team and, you know, they gave a shout out to the podcast or whatever. But then on the other side of it, I mean, there was definitely a time in Red Sox history where it didn't matter how much interest the opposing teams fans had in being there. You couldn't get a ticket because Red Sox fans would fill that place up. Uh, and then another layer to that is that I also can't blame Red Sox fans for not being super excited about their team right now. Toronto Blue Jays fans, like it sounded like it was 75% Blue Jays fans. It wasn't, but they were certainly very much louder than Red Sox fans. Um, if you looked behind the Blue Jays dugout, at least on Saturday, as far as it went back, was Blue Jays fans, like all the way back. And like, you know, I'm not gonna add like I'm at Fenway all the time or anything, but it is when you're sitting there and you're seeing it, it's, it's a little bit. Thank you for your first hand perspective on what went down in Fenway Park. Listen, people been waiting for this for a long time. Mm-hmm. You were there. You got to witness it. Um, where do you want to start? First of all, before we, uh, before we go anywhere, this episode is sponsored by Knocker on Sunglasses. Um, uh, you know what? I should have brought your Knocker on Sunglasses to Fenway because that's probably the only time I would have ever had the chance to see you in the year of 2023. Well, well, if you had cared to come and say hello, you could have done that. But yeah, you're gonna see me on Wednesday. Yeah, I will see you on Wednesday. Jake too. So I'll bring your Knocker on Sunglasses, uh, to 95 the sports hub when we do the baseball hour together on Wednesday. Uh, this episode is sponsored by Knocker on Sunglasses. Quality polarized affordable shades, including new MLB and US women's soccer team pairs. Check them out at knockaround.com. I will, I promise I will bring you your Knocker on Sunglasses on Wednesday. When we do I trust you mostly I'll bring them now man my word. Uh, where do you want to start Tyler? Because I, I don't want to be all doom and gloom, but that feels unavoidable after a series like that. Not just getting swept again, but just like the, the nature in which it happened and the things that happened between. Yeah, you hit rock bottom today, which is pretty impressive considering some of the ups and downs we've had this season, whether, you know, you want to go all the way back to early April with the rays, uh, how things kind of played out in the middle of June and now you are five games back. You haven't been that far back since mid June. So when we were doing these podcasts and it felt like, you know, they were holding on by a string through that Marlon series towards the end of June and all these things, you've unraveled this past month of everything that kind of broke your way and when you were in a really dire spot, you know, so many bullpen games. There were a lot of things working in your favor with days off and you were able to take advantage of them. The bats came around, you know, we had got past the days of the rocky series and all these disappointments, the white sock series and now you're all the way back here. I think really if you're looking at the blame pie, I look at it and I say, part of it is just who this team has been all year long. They are consistently inconsistent. This is what it is. They are going to go through some of the most dark, depressing stretches and there's going to be stretches. There'll be another stretch this year where they make you sit there and reconsider how you viewed them. That's why I've been very cautious trying to ride the hides and lows. I know we had Steve on a couple of weeks ago and it's like Tyler, are you ready to call them a playoff team? I'm like, I think 85 wins in there out the last week of the playoffs. I think that's just part of their DNA and they're sealing with what they have. I think the other part is you can assign blame everywhere in the series and I know some people want to just attribute it to one thing. They want to say, well, fuck him. Heim did wrong. Heim fucked up. Heim needed to do more on the pitching side. We disagreed on certain things last episode. We both agreed. They needed a pitch or somewhere. If you were going to get through this upcoming month with the limitations, the lack of day off or days off, what you needed, what you were asking of from the bullpen and the dominance you got out of Paveta and Murphy, it felt like you needed some bandaid there, something to get you to sail with Locke. We'll talk on them, but like, how can you take him a little bit to get where he is? His mechanics are a little off now that he's starting to pitching or starting to pitch again. But the bats, just being kind of missing for quite some time now and that's not exaggerating. Square three runs or fewer in seven of their last nine games, right? James Paxson, you show up, you shit the bed. You immediately start this whole series off on a terrible note. You see the shortage in the bullpen because Cora is constantly in his head trying to plan for bullpen days, right? There's players not doing their job. There's Cora being put in some tough spots because of limitations with the staff. Boom, you know, failure to address a certain need in that sense. Coaching, Carl's Fabbless, what the fuck do you do here? I'm seriously asking you what the fuck do you do here? Because if you can't go and track a ball and it's on Reese McGuire too, but you're waving guys and waving guys, I'm watching Devers regress daily at third base. Like the guy who's supposed to be getting Devers where he's supposed to be, just not doing that. And that's not the first time we've questioned Carl's Fabbless this year. That's a real coaching staff problem. Like you go down the list and there's just so many little things of underperformance. Like you can question Joe Jake's in the ninth inning on Saturday. Should that have been a Kenley spot? Considering he hadn't worked and it's that close to the game, you need one game. You need just one game and it's four. It feels a lot different going into today, even with the loss. I think you can just look at all across this roster and there's things to be frustrated and upset about. It's just a lot of bad and that's not even saying Alex Rdugo couldn't be bothered to show up on time. And I'll put my hand up. Alex Rdugo is going through some things in his personal life that we know of. Doesn't mean that his consequences or his actions don't have consequences. But I do think that is something to keep in mind as we talk about this stuff. Can't be easy losing your grandmother, your mom's battling breast cancer. He needs to be better. It's strictly that. That's what it is. I do think those are important things to keep in mind as well. While we have these conversations. That's fair. I think you make a good point too about the unraveling of everything that they've done the last month because that was one of the things that I was getting hit with on Twitter after the game when I tweeted out the death certificate of the red socks and then listed all the things. One of the things being like roster construction and a failure to do anything in the trade deadline. And then I have people be like, well, you didn't say anything about the bullpen days when they were winning with them. And I was like, yeah, but it's like, let's be real. We've talked about that on this podcast. You can go back to episodes from this past month where we said, it's awesome that this is working but the days off do matter a lot. I think we said it last episode specifically too. Not only that, but it just wasn't sustainable. Like I give credit to the red socks that when they were down Garrett Whitlock, Tanner, Hauke and Chris sale that they made it work. Like they had the best record in the league for about a month. And that's not taking away from, you know, like the depth that they were able to still win with that. The bullpen days, like when they had to do bullpen days, they had a winning record. Like it's not like it was like, oh man, bullpen day, that's an automatic schedule loss to the red socks. That wasn't the case. But what I am saying is you are winning, hanging on to trying to get to the trade deadline. So it's like, all right, we're winning in spite of the fact that we have to do this. Like we don't have a choice, we have to do this. But thank God that there comes a day where we have the option to go out and acquire starting pictures that we don't have to do this anymore. And then we got a second basement when we already had five of those. So that's why I said, you know, then there's someone else is like, oh yeah, because you even said like Rich Hill's going to say, who the fuck said anything about Rich Hill? Like there were plenty of starters that were available. Like I'm not saying like go get Dylan Seas or whatever, just a very later, someone there had to have been someone who could start games for this fucking team because it's not just about like you can point to, well, Jared, they were winning the bullpen games. Yes, they were winning the bullpen games, but it's a band-aid. Because now when you're doing bullpen games, now those relievers can't be used in the games where you need relievers. It's not like your starters, like the guys that you have in the rotation right now are giving you six, seven innings every time out. Like Beyo was doing that for a little bit, but that's one guy and he's not doing it right now. He's not going seven innings. And even Pavetta, like at one point Pavetta was giving you six, seven innings out of the bullpen and it's like, this is ridiculous. It's helping, it's huge, but like it's just not stuff you could constantly depend on in that sense. When he goes three innings, you realize the difference. Yeah, so and like I'll add on to that, like there's certain moments in the series after James Paxton came out in that first game, right? And you're like, all right, he gave up four runs, it wasn't perfect. Let's kind of see where it goes. When like Jovere comes in and he gives up a couple runs and that's where you are, you're like, Jesus, that's the difference between a game that's four, two and six, two. That changes your bullpen decisions for the rest of that game, right? Like those are the things that really stand out to me and kind of make you think, even if you go to like the Nick Pavetta game and how all that played out. It's like Joe Jake's ends up in the ninth inning there in that spot. These games get away, Kors trying to make decisions days in advance because he knows what's happening. You're really not able to manage the bullpen in a way you want if you have an extra arm there, even if it is someone like Rich Hill. And you know, that's the bare minimum. You push some of these arms into different spots. You can do more. John Schreiber doesn't have to pitch the first inning. He can be used later. It breaks it up even using Pavetta in different ways. It gives you more flexibility. There's such a thin margin of error for the bullpen right now. And when you don't have days off, it gets exposed very quickly. - Mm-hmm. Yeah, because I mean, there were so many moments over the course of this series where, because like I said, getting swept is bad. Being five games back now is bad. And you get all like the, everything is awesome fans being like, well, it's still got 50 games to go. Like that's 50 games. 50 games when you're in August. And now you have three teams ahead of you, like being five games back. Like that's not a great spot to be in. It took you a month and a half of ridiculous baseball to get within two games. - Yes. It took you a month and a half of having the best record in the fucking league to get to within two. Like you didn't take over a playoff spot. So what you're asking this team to do is not impossible. It's not impossible. It's just, you already had, I don't wanna say that's your only peak, but like based on watching this team for four months or whatever it's been, their peak still didn't get them into a playoff spot. And then you had a big series against the team that was directly in front of you and you just shit the bed. - Absolutely shit the bed. I guess we can talk about the Verdugo stuff now because it feels like there is a lot of layers to that. Like you mentioned the stuff going on in his personal life and this and that. We don't know what conversations were had. Like when he showed up at like 10 past two for a four o'clock game. - It's beautiful. - Yeah, it is inexcusable. I mean, we were also making the kind of like a joke being like, what if he thought it was a seven o'clock game? Like I'm not making excuses for the guy, but I'm just saying like what excuse do you have? Like we don't know what excuse he gave Koro when he showed up at two 10 or whatever it was. We don't know what his excuse was when he walked in the door, but like the, I guess the common practice is for players to get there. Like no later than four hours before the game. If you're, but like Verdugo a lot of days will show up at like 430 or something like that. So it's not like he's always in that four hour before first pitch barrier. But like a spear noted this in his column that came out today as well saying this is something that has been, you know, a conversation piece or an issue at times in the past. - Yeah, so maybe it is, you know, like that he's been asked in the past to like, hey, like we need to get you here earlier. Like if it's a seven o'clock game and you're showing up at 430, but other guys are here at like one or whatever. Then yeah, like I feel like he's one of the guys that consistently is last to arrive. But yeah, I mean, if you're in the lineup, and it's not just that you showed up less than two hours before first pitch, it's the team that you're doing it again. It's like Saturday could have been looked at as the biggest game of the year for this team and you're rolling in there. And there's been issues like this with the Dodgers. This is not his first run in with the law, with the Red Sox. And it just sucks. It sucks as a fan of the Red Sox and someone that likes Alex for Dugo to have to like have the conversation about his habits and his behaviors and his discipline and his maturity or whatever. But I would say I commend Alex Cora for not airing out. Alex for Dugo. Like he got asked a bunch of times. Like Chris Cattillo was in the media room being like, was he late? It's a manager's decision. Like what did he get bench for? What did he do? It was a manager's decision. Dropped it like five times, like five questions in a row, just getting peppered at him. And he didn't. Cora didn't fold. No, and I feel like Alex also knows, 'cause I even saw like I was following the dialogue in real time. So I knew during the game that he was late. I knew probably in like the fifth or sixth inning that the reason why he was bench was because he showed up late. So in the immediate following the game and like the Cora press conference and then Vardugo's answering questions and Vardugo's ass point blank, I think again by Cattillo or I might have any in Brown, I can't remember which one. Were you on time today? Yes. Okay, so Vardugo lies. But I mean, it is one of it is because I'm sure the game plan was hey, we're gonna try and keep this under wraps. But it obviously got out like Ian Brown, I think reported it. But I mean, that's like such a self-inflicted wound by the Red Sox too, because they, the media tried to figure it out before the game. They tried to do their work during the game and then after the game they're asking the questions and they're not getting the truth after the game. Alex Cora's given no answers, but Vardugo just completely lies about it. So it just became a bigger mess than it really needed to be. I think when you're following it in real time, then you see some sort of fan reaction being like, "Well, Alex Cora's too hard on Alex Vardugo." And like Alex Cora's making Alex Vardugo his punching bag the season. It's like, "Well, okay, like, is this the right time to make an example out of Alex Vardugo?" Is what I saw some of. It's like, "Well, I mean, it's the biggest game of the year." And I took, So Tyler's point, yes, there are a lot of things that are going on in Alex Radoogos life right now that are bigger than baseball. But if he was benched, then maybe that was not the excuse. That wasn't the reason provided. Like I think Alex core is human enough and has enough empathy that if Alex Radoogos like, hey, I was late because X Y and Z family related issue. He's probably in the lineup. But if he's just like, man, I fucked up like I thought the game was at seven. That's me. I'm so stupid. I'm just I'm just throwing out the air. I don't know. Like I'm not speaking as someone that knows the behind the scenes. So I don't I all I can tell you is that I knew I knew that he was late. But I don't know the reason why. But I'm just trying to piece it together here because you want to be fair to everyone involved. Like I don't want to be the guy or the podcast that is like, you are late. That's inexcusable. Fuck you. Be better. Like I don't want to be that guy either. You know. It's more along the lines of like there's an there could be an explanation to something, right? But there are consequences for actions here. And I think that's what it is. And I think it's the other context along with Verdugo. Hey, we saw how much you meant to this team the first couple months. You've been kind of not yourself for well over a month now. You haven't been performing when this team was really firing on all cylinders. When things have kind of slowed down and they need someone to step up. When they maybe need the guy who was their consistent force the first couple months of the year. Where have you been? And when this has been a thing, Korra has got on you before. Verdugo, you told AC you told everyone like, I'm a new man this year. This is not, you know, the guy you remember from years past. I'm not that guy anymore. I realize I made some mistakes. I wasn't doing what I had to do to be the best version myself. I'm a clean it up. Well, here we are in August 6th. Realistically, it's been a month now, you know, five, six weeks. And you have not been doing those things. It seems like this has been a consistent issue. And Alex Spears said in there talking to anonymous execs before they're saying he looks checked out out there. And that's something you have to look at and you have to acknowledge and say, wow, during, you know, the middle of this season when this guy is claiming to be one of the leaders. Someone who wants to be here long term claims for an extension who was crying about an all star games. You have checked out and you're not bringing what you need to do to this team. That has to be so hard for a guy like Alex Korra who did give him his flowers at different points this year. And he got that warning in Cleveland. He got benched right and he came out and he responded for a week. And then it was just kind of all gone once again. If you want to be the guy here that gets, you know, that next contract that gets to Andrew Ben and Tendi deal that's looked as a leader in a major part of the Red Sox moving forward. You have to act like it. Otherwise all this shit is just words. And right now you look at Alex for do go and you say man, so far you're a lot more talking than you are action. And that's the reality of this. You may say you want all these things, but you have not been that here. And you seemed like you understood it for two months. And then the minute people started praising you and they got off your ass. You got right back to the same place you were before. Yeah. Yeah. That last that bat too. I was even going to say he looked checked out, but then he got a hit like, yeah, three hits today. Dude, that three hits today. But that last that bat. He's he was like standing in the batter's box. He looked like he was going to fall asleep. The kid, but it's like, yeah, other teams are telling you you're checked out. And then you go after the trade deadline and you know, you're kind of pin everything that's been going on. You go, well, you know, it did get to me. You know, the trade rumors kind of did get to me a little bit. All right. So what's the fucking excuse now. So like what what is it here? Is it. Oh, the trade rumors were bothering you and it kind of messed with your head. All right. We can understand that that that's part of being human. Well, it's August 6 here. And on August 5th, you decided to show up two hours late to a game. The biggest game of the year. When the bats haven't showed up and they need you. Yeah. I guess the guy at Jose Boreos who gets fucked by lefties, they need you. Instead, they're going with Adam Duval and a disadvantage because of that selfish decision. That that's a really hard thing. And I think for someone like AC, who is so team first, it's always team first. No matter what, that's how everyone on this team is acted for a majority this year. Next man up, I will step up. I will play the role. What are you doing, man? What are you doing when you're supposed to be one of the guys? You think about who you did replace here. No one saying you are mooky bets. No one's asking you to be mooky bets. But the least you could be is accountable and show up and do the damn job. Not even showing up. That's disrespectful to Alex Cora. That's just disrespecting your teammates. I think that's why Cora said great. You showed up fucking two hours before the game. Awesome. Sit your ass on the bench. It's nice that you showed up. It's not the disrespect or not caring about your own work. It's what it means to every other guy in this room that's fucking busting their ass right now and probably feeling a little down after the deadline realistically. Yeah. Yeah, you're not wrong. I don't know that we'll get more content. Maybe we will. I don't know. I don't know if we'll get more context. I think the excuse provided is important to the story. We don't have that. But again, I go back to the point earlier about maybe we don't need the excuse because Cora heard it and he still benched him. And like I said, I think if it was a legitimate excuse, he's playing. Like if it was a legitimate like, oh man, like family emergency or something happened. Like then you're you're playing that day. Like the it's it was a very, very important game, arguably the most important game of the series. And he wasn't even used in the night. I wasn't even like he made an example out of him for the first seven innings. And it's like in the night. Then you needed him. Like you needed Alex Verdugo. The walkoff king. You the spot was set and no Alex Verdugo. So you heard. I mean, do we want to play the Cora sound. I think it's fair and I do want to throw in one little thing here. Cora or Verdugo was pinch hit. The previous day. Was he not. I don't want to say that's the reason or that's exactly it, but maybe just something to think about. Yeah, I mean, it was a. It was it was a tough lesson. All right, here's here's Alex Cora after the game on Saturday. I think we all missed out one. You know, I think Reese took off and Carlos, you know, was looking at areas. Everybody thought it was going to be after all. And you know, it was a bad play, a bad baseball play. So. No, no, so all around for us. And we all thought it was gone. So Reese from the get go. I was just talking to any thought it was gone and then Carlos, you know, he was looking at areas and, you know, just. Just missed out. He didn't play today. I decided not to play. You know, I think today we took a step back as a team. You know, like we have to make sure everybody's available every single day here for us to get to wherever we're going to go. And that wasn't the case. And as a manager, I got to take. You know, charge of this and by the side of he wasn't going to play. I decided he's not going to play. I'm just taking care of the 26 guys and he wasn't going to play. The manager's decision. Yeah. There's a chance he played tomorrow. Not really. No. No, but that was a different situation. It was a different situation. No, I mean, he's been mature, you know, but today, you know, for for we took a step back as a team. Oh, everybody thought it was gone even the picture. Everybody did the picture to start walking off the of the mound with the head down. We have to be available. Everybody has to be available for us to do this. We have to be available from coaches to players to to analysts to the front office. Everybody has to be available every single day here. That's the bottom line. And today one guy was an available. I want to add to that like Kora seemingly defending him to saying like, hey, like this isn't something. You know, they know that this happened was just leading up to multiple offenses like Kora defended him and said it wasn't. This is a spear line in the column today. For do go who it times in his Red Sox career has been late for different aspects of pregame preparations. Said he was on time to the ballpark Saturday. So still even at this point, Kora is protecting him to some degree. Well, it doesn't sound like he was done. It's not like he was. But again, like talking to people over there. They're like, yeah, no, he's he's never showing up four hours before the game or before or earlier. Like he'll always like, he'll just drive into the parking lot at like 430, which again, like maybe it's like, yeah, we're bending the rules for guys and now they're taking advantage. But at the end of the day, it is the vibes are piss poor piss poor. And I don't want to sit here and say like, man, like I fell for it again. Like I think we all had somewhat realistic expectations for this team. If you've been watching them all year, it shouldn't surprise. It's okay to be frustrated and disappointed and all that. It shouldn't be surprised. I mean, this team has been the ultimate roller coaster. It has been up. It has been down. They have been the best team. They have been the worst team. Are they the worst team in baseball? No, no, they're just they're there. They raid in the middle. They come off the best month in July. And ever since I'm called them underdogs. They're one and four. This team after getting swept. There are three games over 500 and that just sounds about right. They've lost four straight. They've lost seven to 10 after, you know, they just go on these right now. Now they get that. It's like, oh, well, we got the royals in town. Well, guess what the royals are fucking red hot. (laughing) - And like this is a team that's played down to their competition all year long on top of it. - Yeah, yeah, it's just the, man, I, because I hate being that guy, like I'm a die hard red socks fan. I love the red socks, but they put, because it's our job, like we can't just be like, well, you know, I love them anyway and like everything's fine. We'll just watch the games and we'll see what happens. Like, no, you get to, you get to talk about it, especially now and after this series, I don't think that I've felt lower. Like I don't think that I have had less faith in their ability. I think I'm trying to figure out the balance of, 'cause I mean, they've played like shit before. It's not like, oh, we haven't seen them play like shit this year, like this is shocking. I think it's more to do at the time that's left. And now the teams that you've allowed to get in front of you. I think it is the deflating experience of playing your best baseball and it still wasn't enough. Like that's a deflating feeling. When you feel like you've shot your best shot and it didn't even pierce the armor, like it got you close, like it put a dent in it, sure. But like, guys still walk around, he's fine. Like he's got a little bit of a bruise and he's gonna, he's gonna be fine in a couple days. That's how I feel about this team right now is, they got there and that's not to say that they can't get hot again. They probably will. Like that's who they are. They, Jake, how do you feel right now? I feel like this is the first time that you went reverse sweep and they didn't sweep somebody. There's completely misread what I was trying to say, but yeah, I mean, you said it out at Fenway on Friday, like this series really felt like we're gonna know after this weekend where we stand and boy, they just absolutely shit themselves. So it's, it's disappointing. It's the lowest we fell a year and obviously you go from two games out of a wild card spot with nobody in between you to now five games out with two teams in front of you. It was just not, not the series to not show up for. Yeah. And then Wake set it on the broadcast after they got swept. He said, you know, biggest series of the year and you got two bullpen games. I don't even know that I count the Paveta Star as a bullpen game. He's a starter at this point. He's a starter. Yeah, but even still it's like today, you're trying not to get swept and you don't, you don't have a starter. But yeah, and yeah, the Skullbutt around Fenway over the weekend, the Skullbutt was at, the higher ups were not happy about the Red Sox doing nothing of the trade deadline. So that wasn't like a top down initiative. So we'll see, we'll see how that pans out. I've already had my rants about the trade deadline on the last episode. Yeah, I feel I feel, I feel probably the worst that I felt all year. Again, because my energy is so down, I think like when I was fired up on the last episode, it was because, man, I'm really disappointed that nothing happened at the trade deadline. But we've got this big series in front of us against Toronto. So taking two out of three or a sweep or whatever and who gives a fuck, like let's go. Just didn't, you got swept. You got swept. So now it's just, it's a kick in the dick and then when you're on the ground, you just get punched in the face when you try to get back up. Like that's where we're at. And I'll add like a lot of that is, like some people want to say, well, you just made this move with the deadline. Do I think this series plays out much differently? Like I think a lot of it is the same inconsistency as we've talked about here, where the offense going through their ups and downs here, the defense had two different moments in this series where they completely let innings unravel. Devours on that springer ball ends up, you know, putting it on the throw, a couple more runs come in. You're in a tough spot. Durant today, the ball falls in before you know it, you're already down and it feels like a complete rerun of the day before, right? So like the Reese McGuire play like all these like sloppy stupid decisions are still existing. They're still part of this team and it doesn't feel like they're ever getting better in that sense of cleaning these issues up. If anything, it's getting worse in certain spots with the raw field, Devours, where it's like, how is it not improving here? And while I think an acuas an acquisition would have helped, I still don't think it fixes what really is the reality of this team and the ups and downs they go through here. This is just who the 2023 Red Sox are. They are that role of coaster, no matter what. One acquisition, a small one wasn't going to change that even for a fifth starter. It maybe gave you a chance to win a game in the series. But still, I think a lot of people in their head thought, all right, they had flushed that version of themselves. This is a different Red Sox team that had taken a step forward. That just wasn't the case. And I don't think it is the case with this team. I think that's where like you said, Jared, that was the whole like, oh, they've turned the page. That version of themselves is gone. It's still here. And I think it's a version that becomes a lot more apparent without those days off. Cause like James Pax and that first start, that's a real conversation to have over the next couple weeks. He started on, you know, a week's worth arrests all throughout July. This time he was still on an extra day arrest compared to a regular starter. His foreseemer was down a mile and a half. Brian Beo could have pitched today. He was, you know, if you're talking about just being ready, but they want to give him an extra day, they're worried about his innings total. Like these are very heavy things to weigh here. As you're moving down the stretchwear, well, how badly did you need this ballgame today? And still, you know, and I'm not telling them to risk Brian Beo. You do got to protect the future here. But, you know, he's being moved to Monday against it on that start against the royals when you need to win a ball game. And we're going with this bullpen game. No disrespect to Chris Murphy. He's been great this year. I don't care who you are. Like if you're that kind of guy and you're going up against the blue jays, there's no way you feel confident going into that game. Well, I don't know. I don't know. Just really, really down on the squad. Baseball fans, you could be winning every inning with the hottest offers in the game. Draft King Sportsbook has you covered from the top of the first to the bottom of the ninth all season long. Right now, new customers can bet just $5 to score $150 in bonus bets instantly. Plus all customers can take a shot at bigger payouts with the draft King stepped up same game parlay's open the draft King Sportsbook app opt in and place your parlay by combining three or more bets from the same game. Every additional leg gets you an extra boost up to 100%. 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We have the Christian a Royale stuff right. I think Luis are yes his first series win a Red Sox uniform, the Trevor story stuff and kind of all those rehab updates because we got a big Wittlock update too. We did I didn't I didn't see the Wittlock update just that he was going to be a reliever. Yeah, that's when I'm referred to which I think both of us assume that was what they were going to do at this point based off the injury, but something to hit on. Okay. Where would you like to start? Let's start with the Royal stuff. Okay. Christian Royal was designated for assignment, which happened on the off day, I believe came out on Friday. Yep. Yeah, happened on the off day. Scoop shop had it scoop shop had it doesn't need a first assignment on Thursday and to make room for a reiss and you keep Pablo Reyes and you Chang a Royal clears waivers and has accepted a minor league assignment, which is interesting. So he's not going anywhere, which I always a possibility because I did see, you know, like for better for worse, like if you liked him or didn't like him, you know, people like people understand the impact that a guy like that can have on a team like this. So I saw people kind of given him like his flowers and a farewell. I didn't really I don't think I tweeted about it at all because I had a feeling that there was a chance that he would clear and accept a minor league assignment. I felt like that was on the table. Ultimately, he did and he will stay with the boss red socks. I feel like that's the guy loves it here. Like he was. You know, a big piece of that clubhouse and that was voiced on Friday when we were down there. You know, there are some people that were like, man, like we're gonna miss that guy. That doesn't always get said about people that packed their bags. So yeah, there was some displeasure that was voiced about a royal being designated for assignment. But he loves it in Boston. And, you know, he's not a product of the Red Sox, but he certainly has played his most big league time with the Red Sox. So I'm sure that that feels like his baseball home. So ultimately he's staying with the organization. Yeah, I think with the royal too, like a lot of people were like, "Oh, how was it not you, Chang? How is it not Pablo Reyes?" I think you kind of got a factor in the guy they were bringing in Luis Reyes. He is kind of a richer man's Christian royal in a lot of sense, had way more success at the big league level than Christian royals ever had. You know, Reyes was a very good ball player the last two years and above average one that you could plug in play in a starter position and not think twice about it. Christian and royals been trying to live up to that. And what, it's been three years now, different roles this year. He was really given a chance to start. He just couldn't stay healthy. This year, the splits, he was a lefty killer before. He's hitting 197 against them this year. So he kind of fell off in that sense. If you're gonna be giving a majority of playing time to someone, it felt like, all right, Reyes taking that role that a royal kind of was built for originally, while a royal couldn't do it, we still need you chained probably because that defensive shortstop, Trevor story still isn't back. You know, the ninth is his last rehab day. He'll be available then. You can't lose that defensive shortstop right now and Pablo Reyes plays multiple positions. Say what you will, they don't trust Christian or royal at shortstop anymore. I don't think they ever really loved him even at third base. It was just consistently second base, but if they have Pablo Reyes, who can play short, made a really nice play on Saturday there, throughout the infield, can play centerfield as well, which may have even more importance. One story gets back and they have these conversations. A royal was kind of the piece that offered you the most tools on the tool belt, per se. And for a guy that just wasn't building up and said it felt like his stock was decreasing, it just felt like it was time to break that off a little bit. Even though it could have an impact on the clubhouse, 'cause like you said, he was an important glue guy here the last couple of years. It's not something to overlook. Also, I thought that Cora's comments were interesting because he was kind of asked why a royal and he mentioned the versatility of the other guys. And it's like, Pablo Reyes played centerfield in Triple A for like two weeks, like that adds to his versatility. Like that's a difference maker. - Well, and your tour guy, you can also play second in short. - Yeah, I guess. I mean, it's not like a royal. - But a Christian or royal can't even play short. They don't trust them there. - Yeah. - Yeah. Like, think through everything that happened is bad as it was, they were good putting Christian or royal at shortstop. They'd rather just hope Kike Hernandez was gonna make those throws. - He made a big throw in there last night too. - Yeah. - That's Kike Hernandez, right? - Mm-hmm. - Not as shortstop. - The second base, right? - Mm-hmm. - I was watching the highlight, but that's what it is with the royal. I think they just saw Reyes and though this is a better version of him. And we need to let this guy play. I thought he looked good over the weekend. Say what you will, there was a lot of negatives. Had a hit in every single game. What, one for three on Friday with the walk, Saturday, two for four day big hit. You know, maybe if Joe Jake doesn't pitch the ninth inning or if Rafael Devers can play some defense, that's a game tying hit. Or on Sunday where he had a hit, but he also got robbed by Kevin Kearmyer. Split his arm open. - Yeah. Yeah, two plays balls to the wall. The update on Whitlock. Yeah, so Gary Whitlock, the retweeting simulator game yesterday. Command look good. Spare was very positive. Feel for all his pitches. Weird-ish comment from Korra, nothing I'm freaking out about, but he goes, yeah, Whitlock's velocity was up. He was sitting 93, 94. Oh, okay. Well, that's not what Gary Whitlock throws. - Mm-hmm. - But maybe it's more along the lines of this is his first time really getting it going off the mound. They're trying to get him, you know, he's gonna be in that multi-inning role for the rest of the year. So yeah, you're gonna get 2021 Whitlock, hopefully, or early 2022, whatever way you wanna frame it. I think that is the best move for his health at this point, because we played the comments last week, I think on the podcast, there were some somewhat, I don't know, I just didn't love the way he was framing the elbow already just reacting to stress and having some issues when he wasn't carrying much of a workload. I think you punt the starter conversation to the off season. And even then when there's a lot of starting pitching on the market, you really have to rethink things in question, is he a starter long-term? - Yeah. - But was the last sale outing? - Today. - But was the line? - Four and a third, three hits, zero earned runs, seven K zero walks, and the Velo was a little down, he was at like 95, 96 the first one. This time it was 91, 93. - Ooh. - And this is his, this is gonna be his last rehab start. He's gonna be up on this team, probably starting Thursday or Friday, in some kind of role, maybe a piggyback role or an open role. - Yeah. And then there's a Trevor story thing, which I think a lot of people are overreacting to. Trevor story, there's a lot of talk that he might be back with the Red Sox this past Friday. There's only so much time that you're eligible to stay in during your rehab assignment, whether it's 20 days. - Yeah, 20 days between all levels, whatever, if you're gonna be in Worcester, you're gonna be in Portland, if you're, yeah. So like Trevor story has said, I wanna stay the max amount, which is what until Wednesday? - Yes. - So he wants to stay until Wednesday. And then people are like, man, like the fucking Red Sox need him and he's just like, you know, hanging out down a Worcester and he's crushable. Like this dude has been out of action for months, months. And he did not have a spring training, like everyone else to get his body ready to get into a rhythm. Like, looking what happened the start of his season last year, was the last year, last year, when he didn't have a spring training, like or a partial spring training, like he came out of the gate real slow, like that stuff is important. So like, yeah, would it be a nice to have Trevor story right now? Absolutely, of course. Like he, I think it adds to it that he's doing so well in these rehab games. Yeah, so it's like, all right, he's hitting home runs and he's playing good defense. Like, get him up here, we need him right now. But at the end of the day, the guy's coming off a major elbow surgery and he's playing a premier position at shortstop and he needs to get his legs under him. He needs to get in baseball shape. Like this is his spring training. It's not like he played April and May and got hurt and then went on a rehab assignment. Now he wants to say extra time in the rehab assignment. Like he's coming back from major surgery and he didn't have a spring training. Like he hasn't played baseball in quite some time. So I have no problem with him taking a few extra days of that. It's not like, like in some people's warped minds, like, oh no, he's just, he doesn't have the compete. He doesn't have the it factor to come up and help the red socks. It's like, no, like if he's asking for those extra days as a professional athlete, you know your body. So of course, you're gonna trust the athlete. And be like, yeah, if he's asking for those days and he needs those days, it's not a big deal. And on top of it, it's the, you know, some people are saying he's injured or, you know, he's still clearly not healthy. Come on, the guy was willing. He was trying to fight his way back in July to DH. The team told them we're good. So, hey, we don't need it. The way things are going right now, it doesn't really make sense for our roster. So he was willing to force himself into that Bryce Harper-esque role and just say, hey, I'll show up and hit if that's what you need out of me. Well, okay, you didn't need it. Do you want this guy to be able to play the position and do it on consecutive days? Cause if he comes up here and he's sitting every other day, you're gonna bitch and mow, and then you're gonna have a fucking problem again and say, oh, he can't play every day for me. Which one do you want? Do you want him to come up and be able to offer you, you know, maybe four or five games a week off rip and you don't have to worry about all that? Yeah, that's kind of how it goes here. Like, there's just this constant Trevor Story hater part of this fan base and I get it. I know you blame it for Zander Bogart's. It's not Trevor Story's fault that that whole situation played out like that. It's never been his fault. But the reality is he's rate on time for his rehab. This is exactly where people had him. Some said it would be closer to mid August. You'd be best case, maybe to get him by September. It's rate August six and he's gonna be back no matter what sometime this upcoming week. He's followed the timeline. He's worked his way back. He's offered to come back early and the team told him no. So yeah, it's gonna take some time. He just moved back to shortstop. He's trying to get his arm right. He's making sure everything's there and every report so far, he's making every throw. Have you seen one bad throw or one bad defensive play from Trevor Story? Not. Right. So you think all these rehab games he's playing. He's the arching down there too. Don't get me wrong. If there was something wrong with the elbow, you would have seen it. But he's trying to get right. And Al score told you, go read the fucking reports from when he first started. More than likely he's probably gonna end up spending his full rehab time down there. That's what he's gonna need to get to the point where he feels good to go every day out there. Trevor Story isn't coming up here and playing left field with his hand on his dick doing nothing. He's playing shortstop. He's an athletic freak at shortstop. He's gonna be jumping and diving and, you know, he never sets in throws. He kind of just lets it loose as he's running around. He needs to be fully good. And yeah, it sucks that the red songs are going through with tough stretch here or whatever it is. This is just the reality. He's coming back from an injury. They're lucky to have him at all this year. Like he had a full procedure on his UCL. That costs a lot of guys an entire season. And he's gonna make it back for the last two months and we'll see where it takes them. But come on, man. We're gonna start beating up on a guy 'cause he's not fully ready to go early on his rehab assignment. Spare me on that, please. - You see Maddie hot takes on this topic. - Yeah, that's who I was referring to. - No, I love McCarty. - McCarty knows I love him. - The socks are absolutely floundering. And now we find out the Trevor story is deciding to stay in Worcester until his rehab stint expires. He has been playing nearly every day for two weeks, counting on this guy to be available over the next four years isn't a good feeling. - That's from Maddie. - Well, I was more referring to the next tweet that basically said he was injured. Clearly something's not right. It's either the tweet before or to read after it. That's the one that I was like, all right, well, he's not hurt. Let's not start assigning injuries to the guy. Maybe he doesn't feel like he's fully ready to go, every day 162 style, but he's building up to it and playing consecutive days. - The story was hurt before he got here. He is barely played for the Red Sox in two years and is clearly still hurt despite two weeks of rehab games, counting on him to be available moving forward feels foolish. He says, all right, let's not assign injuries. That's wild. He's healthy. He's running around out there. Is he in spring training form, fully built for nine innings every day, full pace MLB style? No, he's probably trying to get there right now. And I think the guy also knows when I get up here, like my first year was such a disappointment in a lot of people's eyes. I want to come up and live up to what I need to do here. I want to be Trevor Story. I want to be the guy in Colorado that people talked about. You know, at one point is one of the better short stops in the entire game. This all tools player. The guy that we were excited about getting, he wants to live up to it. He's trying to get to that point. What more do you want, but there hasn't been a single sign that his body can't handle it. And so many of the people are bitching or the same ones that said he couldn't handle shortstop anymore. And yet here you are begging and crying for him to be out there. So which one is it? Like has Trevor Story ever been labeled as a guy who didn't fucking care? He's actually been labeled the complete opposite by everybody. As a guy who, the dude took a fucking baseball to his head last year and stayed in the game. Like he got hurt. Yeah, his elbow was busted. The red socks knew it. Don't be mad at him. Be mad at the red socks because they knew something. - I have a question for you Tyler. Yes. - If Dave Dombrausky signed Trevor Story, do you think people would be as critical of Trevor Story? Do you think it's because he's linked to him? - Yeah, well I think it's the Xander thing. It's the whole perception that well, Trevor Story isn't Xander Bogart's and that's the reason Xander's not here. So fuck time, fuck Trevor Story 'cause he likes Trevor Story more than Xander Bogart's and that's what works them to the end. When it's not Trevor Story's fault, whatsoever, none. - No. - You know, there's a universe where they take care of that extension and they can both coexist here. Blame him for that because that didn't happen. - No, I sure it didn't. - Yeah, man. I don't enjoy talking about this team right now. I really don't. And there's just like the extra layer to it about just like the awkward vibes with the team too. Like it's just weird. - Well, like, - Like, I don't know how to comment. - Like, I don't know how to comment the story about Friday Jake. Should I even say that? - Whoa, you can't tease it. I'll remove the names. You're gonna do the mouth thing? - No. - I'll just remove the names. So Friday, you obviously remember our last podcast, Tyler. So one of Red Sox player defended me. Red Sox player defended me. But on the last episode, when we were going down all the people that played second base the Red Sox, and I was like, they've got this guy and they've got that guy and they've got this guy. And I was like, who's the other fucking idiot? Someone tried to like rat me out and be like, you have Karabashtalkan shit again and called us fucking idiots and ball blah. And then there was a player that was like, that's just how he talks. Like he was trying to think of, like he wasn't calling you fucking idiots. Like he was trying to like remember who the guy was. And I think I wonder what they thought of the Bobby Delbert comments I made. Jesus Christ. - Yeah, like at this point, like it's just like they're just like looking for reasons to get upset about shit. It's just like, I don't know. It's a very weird year where there's a lot of like, rabid to you. Like the whole, I hate to bring it up again, but like the whole Kaleboard thing, like I said that dude sucks and that has had lasting effects to this day, to this day. Like while we were recording this podcast, like I got like a text message about like Kaleboard whining about that today, today. Like that was like what April, May? I don't even know. - Seriously, it was that early. And like like you said, it's branched. I'm not gonna speak on the player specifically, but I will speak on the player. You are on the Phantom IL because the team told you that you sucked. Like what a weird hill to die on. Like the fact that like I said this dude sucks and that was the line that like made it super awkward with people that they're like, it's so fucking strange. Like he is, if there was a 40 man roster, he's player number 40 and they were like, you know what, we're gonna die on this hill. Like he said he sucked, the team told you that you sucked. You're on the Phantom IL and that's been like, that's been like, it's just been like weird awkward tension all year because of that one line, which I don't regret by the way. - It was factual, you were spin. - Yeah, like I feel like I can't win because I'll get tweets, oh yeah, all you do is show for the Red Sox, like your Red Sox propaganda, all you do is like, the Dic ride the players. No, I don't. Like if I feel like someone isn't good, I'll say it. If I feel like, you know, whatever. Like that was one of the lines, that was one of the lines that after the Kaleboard stuff happened. I had someone reach out and be like, well, you know, like it just feels like it's personal. And I was like, it is personal because when the team isn't good, that's bad for me because the Red Sox and baseball are my life. So if you're bad, you're costing me happiness. I don't just shut the game off and read a book or like, hang out with my kid. I got all, like this is all I got. This is all I got. So if you are someone that is directly leading to the Red Sox losing and it's over and over and over again, then yeah, I take it personally. Like I do. You're taking away attention from the Red Sox, which is good for business, and you're taking away my personal happiness. Why wouldn't I take it personally? This is all I got. So, and I think the other part of it is when you, like you said, you often act as the shield in a lot of ways. Like you do radio, you know where some of these other audiences lie. And just like if they get mad at the shit you say, I wonder what they think about what gets said on the airwaves or whatever. Like you're often the shield protecting a lot of these guys or sticking up for the team or saying, you know, you should care about them. You should pay attention to them. They deserve your attention. And like this is kind of how it equals out where, you know, you go in the dugout and there's an uncomfortable feeling because it belongs to certain people, right? Like that's the, that's the weirdness to it all. When really you've been kind of the defender of the shield for what, you know, all these years, more than a decade, but as Jared Carrab is like this figure eight years. Yeah, that's why I just, I like as of this, this past weekend, I didn't go in the Red Sox dugout, not because I'm waving the white flag and being like, "All right, you win, I won't go in there anymore." It's just like, I just don't fucking care. Because the whole irony of all that is like, I don't know, I have better things to do. Like I like skip my workout on Friday because I want to be a Fenway on time. And I'm in the dugout because I'm accountable. So if I do say, "Kalebore sucks," and you have a problem with it, I'm sitting right here. Don't go fucking crying at other people. Don't be like, "Oh, Jared talks shit, blah blah." So I'm sitting in the, I'm sitting in the dugout because if you have a problem, here I am. Like people, they'll complain. It's like, "Oh yeah, like, you know, Maz, for example." Like I hate to bring up Maz, but it's like, Maz, if he's talking shit about the Red Sox, it's like he's, he's on radio. Like the radio guys don't go down there. I show face and like they'll complain anyway. Like bro, you think I want to be here? Like I could be home, like I could take more time with my day. Like I could do things with my time. I'm not here because like what does sitting in the dugout do for me? Nothing, I'm there to be accountable. Like it's a, it's a, like part of the job to me at least. Like I don't get anything out of me. We don't fucking interview the players. Like you just don't do it. So, yeah, I mean, like that's why I feel like probably moving forward. I probably won't, I probably won't go in there anymore. Cause it's just fucking pointless. - And you're in an interesting spot here. Cause like you said, Christian O'Royeau, he's one of your guys. Like on a team where there's not a ton of your guys left, that's another guy that's now not probably in that clubhouse. Who knows, injuries may happen. He ends up back on the Big League roster. But you know, it's a, it's a different, it's a different generation of Red Sox. We've seen the turnover. And yeah, there's a core there, but it's less relationships, right? Do you feel like that even impacts that decision more? Like there's less guys that you kind of feel connected with? - I get, I mean, like I'm, there's still guys that I'm connected with. But like, I just don't, yeah, like I just don't like feeling, like I'm not welcome. It's like I, I'm not sitting in there for any other reason than to be accountable. Like that is why I'm there. - I do want to, I can't get it out of my head. You saying some of the talk around Fenway was that ownership wasn't happy with I'm? I think we've all kind of had this conversation where we kind of check off time and say he's safe, right? Like he did his job this year. Well, it's August 6th. The deadline is coming on now the team's kind of going in the opposite direction. Did that kind of talk make you reconsider that? Wait, say that again. So we've all kind of sat here, right? And we said time's job feels safe. It looks like he's done what he's had to do this year. From the talk you heard it fend away that upper management may not be happy with them. Just straddling the line basically and not going in one direction or the other. Do you think there's a chance that conversation? Could still change here? I think there's a chance. Yeah, but I mean, like how many times have you seen Tom Warner around the team this year? Like I mean, it's I go back to winter weekend where you know, I'm asking John Henry like how much do you still care? And I've seen the the night that Tanner Hauke got hit in the face with the comebacker. I saw John Henry with Linda and they were like with Tanner like hands on like I still believe the John Henry cares. I do you can call me a corporate chill for that. But I'm basing it off of personal experience things that I see things that I hear whatever I do I still think the John Henry cares. But I also still think that baseball is such a sport that you can't be over reactionary in that way where it's like all right, didn't get anything of the trade deadline. They know more than us like they're they're probably say, oh, that was the other thing that I heard this weekend was that bail was part of the ask for cease. Oh my God, go fuck yourself, right? But that's kind of what we were talking about last episode where I was like if they're asking for stuff like that, dude, like that was the air in Savali thing. You don't have someone that matches minzardo, castors or Durand, go fuck yourself. Yeah. And I also think, you know, I mean, those conversations can change, right? Like I'm sure you got to start high and meet in the middle. Like I remember Chris sale, the white socks wanted devors. And Dumbraski was like, fuck you have Moncada. Okay. Like stuff like that happens where, you know, they'll ask for the moon and you settle somewhere in between. But yeah, I mean, none of this stuff is confirmed. It's just like, it's just all like rumors, whatever, you know, stuff that you hear in passing. But yeah, I mean, I'm not going to sit here and say that his job is safe. I mean, I don't think anyone's job is safe. Like people want to make it a hind thing. I don't think anyone's job should be safe after a season where you're, it's another disappointing year. But the, I guess the scope of what is defined as disappointing. What if everyone's sitting there, including the ownership was just like, yeah, somewhere in between 78 and 85 wins. Like that's kind of how we see this year. I'm like, okay. Now, are people still coming to the ballpark and buying tickets and spending money and watching on TV? Like are they interesting enough? All right. Okay. I can live with that. Like I still, I still think that they'll fall in that range. So it's not like if you fall outside of that range, which would probably surprise people if they finished like under 500. Yeah, complete collapse. Yeah. Like if they absolutely just pull the plug and the whole thing, then you're in like heads should roll territory. But if they fall in that range where they projected it to be, how can you, how can you then do a complete overhaul or chop off the head of the snake when they fell in the range that you projected them to be in at the beginning of the year. Yeah. But that's kind of where I've stood on them. And I, that's how I kind of feel about it. I just wonder like if there is that kind of upsetness, is that more just, you know, you're adding wood to that report from over the off season is time to deliberate at times is he not willing to pull the trigger. And that's a fair narrative to consider until he makes that deal, but that just feels like hearing stuff like that. That's more fuel to the fire. It's like, all right. Well, it's coming from up top. It's coming from inside. Eventually, you know, hi, you know, there's a lot of people that are starting to doubt you in that light. They're wondering if you actually can make that deal if you are too conservative. Something he's going to have to answer. That's a really real thing. And that makes me want to ask because we didn't talk about it last episode. I don't think it'd come out yet. The Justin Turner report in the Justin Verland report. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the Justin Verland report, what the hell is that? And there is more smoke from spear saying like they were pretty interested in the off season. I, I find it makes that makes no sense though, but at least if you do it in the off season, there's more time. And I guess room to be creative to create the, the payroll, like, let it make it, let it make it, make it, make it make sense. Yeah. But that makes no sense. If you're, if you didn't learn from last year about not getting under the luxury tax to reset, and then you're just like, you know what? How do we fuck it up again? Like I think I would sit here right now and tell you that not getting under the luxury tax last year was probably the biggest regret of his baseball career. Easy. It impacted this. That's what in what sense does it make to do it? Do it again. Why would they do that? Why would you go all in on a Justin Verland or where you're going to have to give up one of your top prospects for I mean, he's not a rent. He's under control control for next year as well. Right. Next year. And if he hits 140 innings next year, he gets another player option for the following year. Yeah. I mean, I just have no interest in that. If, if, if you're telling me right now that on Tuesday, deadline day, it's 345 PM and breaking news of Boston Red Sox have acquired Justin Verlander for Roman Anthony. And Shane Drowham, I'd be like, what the fuck? Why? Like why? I think this is the logic to it. Right. Now the reason the Mets and this is probably why the Red Sox and them didn't match up that well. The Mets were basically rebuilding their farm system with money. That's what they did. That's why they put so much money on Scherzer. They did the same with Verlander. I got them Gilbert back. But I think for the Red Sox, they looked at it and said, well, we have prospects. Is there a way where we take on or hold on? How am I flipping this here? Yeah. Is there a way where we can make this work where it's a prospect heavy deal? Right. And we can stay under the luxury tax in that way. If you're willing to eat the money, it makes more sense for the Red Sox because they're like, oh, maybe we can possibly stay under the luxury tax, but they're going to want a prospect all. I think that's where the difference in the conversation happened with like, okay, Mets, you're going to eat that money because you're trying to rebuild your farm here. All right. Yeah. We wanted we have an overloaded farm system in some eyes. We need to kind of get off of that. It just seems like it didn't match up. And still you're working with such a thin margin. They had five million up until the luxury tax while you should have been more creative with that. That's asking a lot when you're trying to get Justin Verlander, even if they are paying down money, because you're just going to have to give up more. I'm not giving up like, I mean, obviously it's past. This is all hypothetical and past tense, but I and made no sense to me to give up top prospects for Justin Verlander at age 40. I don't care how good he is this year. There's there was no one player that was taking you to top this year. That's why I think a lot of my words probably got twisted on the last episode, the both the trade deadline. I didn't think that it was a goal for this year deadline. Like I wanted to make moves that were going to help you for the next two, three years. And while Justin Verlander makes you a better team this year, like this team is not ready to win this year. Everyone knows that. If you've been watching the team this year, like, of course, there's going to be the unrealistic and they're usually younger. Like Red Sox fans are like, man, if we really just went for it at this deadline, like we were right there on the doorstep of a wild card. And you never know what could happen. It's like, no, no, like this, this team in 2023 is not ready to contend for a championship. The goal was always to just be interesting enough to where we're playing somewhat meaningful baseball in September, which is not off the table. Like, it's not off the table. I still think that they could. Because of what we've been trained to believe in this team. Yeah, they're going to be low as big time, but they also have highs. And sometimes those highs last for a whole month. And if you do have another month stretch where you're the best or one of the best teams in baseball, then yeah, you should at least be in the conversation. Like you should be in it. Yeah, like say what you will, right? The royals, I know they've been playing good ball, but that is a team you should go up and clean up against. You got the Tigers after that and the nationals. Like you're going to be getting guys back throughout this stretch, you know, Whitlock and Helker probably closer to that Washington series, but you are going to get sailing story next week. If you go on a run here, it only takes a couple of days going right for you to be within three, four games. Yeah, making it all the way back to that topic. You had a hill to climb before and now you have a fucking mountain. Like that, that's what the conversation is here, but you can remain in it. You can be three or four games back and you're still eliminated the last week of the season. Right? Like you'll still be in that conversation and if things break your way, who knows, maybe it's even a little closer at the end of the year, but that's where they are. They're going to be in the conversation. I have a hard time believing they're going to fall through and people want to say like over do go, this is his him rebelling. This isn't him rebelling. This has clearly been going on for some time. Okay. Like look at the signs. Look at what's been going on with him the last month or so him getting benched before. I don't think the teams out here, pounding. I don't think it's any of that. I think you're just seeing a team who's slumping when they tend to slump. It's three series, you know, loss in a row. They were kind of trending down before the deadline. They were going through one of their colder streaks. We're just in the midst of one right now. And every time we've been here, you've gotten the overreactions both ways. I just, I'm not doing it anymore. I think it's just somewhere right in the middle. And if you're kind of balanced about it, doesn't mean you're not pissed and you're not frustrated. You're going to lose sight and you're going to end up just on this stupid roller coaster of takes where one week and there's people out there that are doing this. You know, one week ago, you were saying, Oh, this team could beat anybody. And then you looked a month before that. They were saying this team sucked and it was going nowhere. Yeah. Just be consistent. Like I feel like you can't be with your takes. You can't be consistent with your takes because when they're at their best, they do look like, hey, this is a team that we could surprise a lot of people if we get into the playoffs. But then when they're at their lowest, you're like, why the fuck didn't they sell at the straight deadline? It's very hard. It's very hard to stay consistent with your takes when this is a baseball team that hasn't been consistent with their play. They have just lived on all ends of the spectrum. They have been at the lowest end of the spectrum. They've been at the highest end of the spectrum. They have been in the middle of the spectrum. They've been all over it. So for us, like, I'm not even like saying like, we need to call ourselves out for not being consistent. How the fuck are our takes supposed to be consistent when the team isn't consistent? Like, we're just calling like this. I think we've been playing a baseball team this behind weekend. This year. You gotta be like, yeah, this team come weeks ago. And people are mad at me. I got a lot of DMs. They had a lot of big opportunity in front of them this past weekend to make a statement and the statement that they made and just what I tweeted, the Toronto Blue Jays played like a team that wanted October and the Boston Red Sox played like a team that was just playing out this string. That's what it looked like. Yeah. I'm sorry for anyone that heard that we cut out end in there. So I might have been talking over you a little bit. But like, that's the thing when it's come to this record and everything. People got mad when I said, I didn't think there were a playoff team a couple weeks ago. Like, that's, you just got to kind of find that middle ground here and playing out the string. That's the one Verdugo comment that I did find pretty interesting in all this where two different times he goes, we have seven weeks left. We kind of just want to end on a high note. That spoke to me a little bit. I'd be shocked if he's on the Red Sox next season at this point. And then also spear reporting today that the Red Sox were pushing Verdugo pretty heavily at the deadline. So I don't know. I think understand where this teams at. I think they kind of know where they're at right now. And this is just who they are. This is the 2023 Boston Red Sox. You shouldn't be shocked at this point where things are going. Isn't that such a red flag too? Like if you're a buyer. Like you have to discipline this grown man multiple times. He's openly said, hey, the idea of being traded really messed with me. And you've had to boot him in the ass to get him to go. And there's not what there's one more year of team control. Yep. One more. So yeah, I mean, at this point, I don't think that it would surprise a single person if he were not in the Boston Red Sox next year. But again, the you're going to sell low because you're dirty laundry's out there. Like and they were not really selling because you're not moving on from because you think you can get a ton of value back. And it's like, oh, we only have one new more year control. Like let's see who you can get for this guy. Like you're moving on from because you're like, hey, this isn't working right now. In your already selling low when other execs are saying he looks checked out, like that's the reality. And I can't blame the Red Sox for sitting there and saying, well, fuck, we want to compete where we are. We want to at least let this team give it give him a shot. You know, we're not adding much to him, but we're not tearing him down either. Are you going to sell Verdugo for fucking pennies on the dollar at that point or say, let's hope he just gets through this mood that Verdugo is going through. We know it happens every year just about. Can we get a good Verdugo the last two months and then figure it out after that because if he gets on fire for August and September and maybe the three hit day is to spark of that, then maybe there's more value than a guy who hasn't hit for shit in a month plus and looks, you know, other teams can see he's clearly not into it. Whatever is going on here. Sad. I wish it worked out different. It felt like it felt like at the beginning of the year we were on the path to the Alex Verdugo, not redemption tour, but like breakout season. Like it felt like all right. The zander's not here or turn on the page. I mean, at this point, he's got to be one of the longest tenured players in the fucking team, right? No, easily, easily. He's been here since 2020. So it's like, yeah, all right. Now, it's a changing in the guard. We've got a new voice. We've got a new vibe to the team. Like there is a mix of veterans. We've got some young exciting players that are coming up at Alex Verdugo. Like I know that, you know, the spring training stuff was about Kike being the leader and all that, but we were talking about multiple leaders. We're like, Devers have to step up and be a leader in Kike and Verdugo. But man, what a turn. What a turn it's taken. And I'd like to sit here and say, like if this were 2020 and this stuff was happening, then you're like, all right, it's a different discussion. Like he's got time to mature. Hopefully you get to boot in the ass and seize the as a big opportunity in front of him. It would have been the year before they ended up in the ALCS. And it's just different. It's a different conversation. But when they've already tried to reportedly heavily push you to another team and you only have one year left, it's kind of like times up. And didn't you have a quote that about like, you know, I just got to get through the next seven weeks. Like yeah, multiple times. He said it. And it's like, damn, like that doesn't sound like a guy in Boston who wants to play like, you know, it's about October. It's about let's see what this team can do. It sounds like, damn, I can't wait. I can't wait till I'm off work. Like, you know, I'm counting the days down. I know exactly in my head how long I got to go here. And that just for a guy and you said it, the leadership stuff, because Jaren Durand was shouting him out, Christian Arroyo was showing him love. Everyone was like, Oh, this is the new Verdugo. It just isn't that right now, man. It's completely gone. And I can't remember the last time in season opinions have flipped so quickly on a player. I don't know. I still saw a lot of support for him when he got benched. I saw a lot of like anti-corra pro Verdugo, like stop making, trying to make an example out of them. Yeah, yeah. I saw a lot of that. It's just like to me, man, for Alex Kord to do something like that. The hustle stuff. At the time, I was like, Oh, this is this is this felt like a lot. I remember tweeting out the replay. And I was like, come on, he's been your most consistent guy. Now that we're getting reports that this is a frequent thing. And he's doing it like we said at such a crucial part time in the year. And when that happened in Cleveland, he was still one of the best outfielders in baseball up until that point. We were saying he deserved to go to the All Star game. He sucked for five weeks now. And like some sort of part of baseball, we get it. But shit, man, at least show you care and you're trying to work out of it. That's the complete opposite. You got to show up for this team. You got to stand up. Alex Kord will give you every opportunity. Say what you will about Keke Hernandez. He was one of those guys. He made a sucked out there. He made it been horrible. He always posted how much just Kord say that when he talks about players, he respects. He posts every day. Said about Ryan Brasier 80 fucking times. Alex Kord or Alex for do go. You're not getting that message. Do you post? Do you put the time in? No, Alex for do go does not put the time in. And everything we've attributed to him here. This is a guy that's meant for Boston and all this different stuff. Yeah, that's important. But that's because we attached the dirt dog mentality to him. That ain't dirt dog behavior. No, it's not. It's not. And I mean, I don't know what conversations happen behind the scenes either now. But like that feels like a spot for Justin Turner to kind of step up and be like, hey, man, like that's that's not how we do things around here. But like it's part of the, I guess the roster construction problem where you look around and going back to the conversation about Alex for do go like, oh, he must be one of the longest 10 year players on the team. That's crazy. Like there's no Dustin, Pedroya in that clubhouse to be like, hey, that's not how we do things around here. Like Justin Turner is that guy right now? But how's Justin Turner who's been there for four months supposed to go up to Alex or do go who's the longest 10 year player on the team be like, that's not the red socks way, man. It's like, you know, you know, that's a hard message to sub like damn dude, I've been here for like four, you know, now four seasons. Like I get it. I know you're a veteran, but like I know bossing a lot more than you do. I think that's why you're lucky to have someone like core who's going to step in and do it because he respects other guys. He's like, I know what this city is. I've been around the best of the best. Like, dude, this isn't boss and red socks baseball. Say what you will. You are not playing boss and red socks baseball. Yeah. And I don't blame him. I like for do go. I really do. He's one of my favorite players, but even me I sit here and I'm like, damn dude, you're not exactly the guy I thought you were. And that hurts me. It upsets me. I, I, yeah, I will add since we're mentioning Turner, we only hit on Verlander. Do you think they actually we're going to deal? How close? Well, what was Edward Cabrera? What's the name? I don't think that Turner was going in a deal for Edward Cabrera, but yeah, it would have to be more, but I think that's what they were looking for. Something of young, control, picture, but I put my hand up and I'd say, I like Edward Cabrera. I floated that trade room over the offseason a ton, but they were asking for Tristan Kosses back then first off. Secondly, that was not making this team better, man. That's a full punt move because Edward Cabrera was just getting an option to the miners. He's had a rough year. He has not been, you know, developing the way they hoped. It's a mid four year A. Yeah. Control issues as well. So I mean, I'm not going to sit here and say that I don't think that it could have happened. I mean, they think I guess put the message out there that, hey, we're not interested in trading this guy. Less and less. You want to go crazy? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, I think that should be every team's approach. That should be every team's approach with any player. It's like, yeah, like we're not looking to move this guy and we're not, I don't know, we're not like it's not someone that we would love to move or ever want to move, but like everyone's got a price, especially someone like Justin Turner's like he's 38. He's 38 years old. He means a lot to what they got going on this year, but he just doesn't have enough time left on the clock to be a key contributor to a core, like a championship four moving forward. He's a guy that's going to help to get the core pieces to the level that they need to be, like a Durran or whoever, Kossus, he can mentor those guys, but he's not gonna be a piece of what they've got going on the next time they win a World Series. - Yeah, and I think the Red Sox also looked at it and said, "Dude, if we deal Justin Turner, that's even a bigger white flag than James Baxon." 'Cause Justin Turner is at the head of everything you're doing offensively. He's the leader in your clubhouse. I'd be terrified to think what happens in this clubhouse if you got rid of Justin Turner. Especially with what we're seeing out of her do-go right now, it's like, who do you kind of look at as your leader or are you answer to? Like that is terrifying. I think he waited and he knows last year he saw some of the play out with moving a guy like Vasquez. It's different, but at the same time, could your clubhouse handle that? No matter what, unless you were gonna go nuts and offer them something that was that crazy, they did enough to get their attention, but I don't know. The way they said the Marlon's thought it was a done deal, I think the Red Sox were more, all right, well listen, you impressed us a little bit, but you didn't go far enough for us to pull the trigger and take a massive risk. Jake, how about some blue moon to lighten the moon a little bit? Playoffs are just around the corner, so it's time to help your team out by sticking to your lucky rituals. Like the ritual of enjoying an ice cold blue moon while the game is on. Blue moon was born in a ballpark, first brewed at Corsfield in Denver, Colorado. Make it your one of a kind baseball tradition, whether you're at the park or watching from home. Tyler was at the park this weekend, stuffing his face with pizza. He was also busy killing the Red Sox chances of making the playoffs in the biggest game of the year. If there's one thing Tyler's good at besides talking socks, it's murdering things. He murdered every dog he ever had. He killed Uncle Bucky, he killed Uncle Cubby, and he just murdered the Red Sox season. And that makes me want to murder some blue moons. With its refreshing flavor with Valencia Orange peel for a subtle sweetness and hints of Coriander, Blue Moon Belgian style wheat ale is a one of a kind beer that's made brighter. It's carefully crafted and full flavored with refreshing notes and a smooth creamy finish. Blue Moon was brewed by baseball to give you dose of nostalgia and get you excited for the new season. Why strike out with the same old beer when you can get something one of a kind? It's bold flavor, bright color, and iconic orange slice ritual, guarantee a one of a kind beer experience perfect for spring weather. Best served with its signature orange garnish to showcase its beautiful bright color. A beer this good only comes around once in a blue moon, but you can enjoy it all season long. Brighten up your baseball traditions with blue moon Belgian style wheat ale. It's one of a kind every time. Check out shop.bluemoonbrewincompany.com for baseball merch and visit get.bluemoonbear.com/jarrid to find Blue Moon delivery options. That's get.bluemoonbear.com/jarrid. Blue Moon made brighter. Celebrate responsibly Blue Moon Brewing Company Golden Colorado ale. - Thank you, Jake. - Appreciate that a lot. - Man, do we have any other Jake? Do you want to comment on Verdugo at all? - Yeah, I don't even know if there's that much more to say. It's obviously disappointing. His name's floated and trade talks a lot at the deadline in the off season. It kind of just feels like it's sort of come to the end of the road. I also didn't like the seven weeks comment either. Like that kind of felt like something is agent. Might have said to him like, oh, just give it seven more weeks, man. And we'll reevaluate in the off season. Like the fact that he's just already thinking that far ahead is just not a great sign. - I was gonna say that earlier, but I didn't want to like throw it out there and have it seem like I heard that, but like it just comes across as, you only got five more weeks school, buddy. - Yeah, five more weeks, come on. - Come across as like just hang on for seven more weeks and I'll get you out of here. - Ooh, it will be over. Fresh start. - Like I don't see Alex for Dugo flipping through his calendar being like one, two, three, four, seven weeks left. Like it's gotta just be someone in his ear being like, just seven more weeks if you can just hang on. Yeah, but yeah, sucks. Anyways, we do have some Red Sox lottery to do today. Oh yeah, no clocks catch up. Duh. - Nevermind. - Nevermind. The Red Sox lottery presented by DirectTV home to the most local MLB games. All right, random number generator. Generate that number. Let's pull up the list here. Generate me real good. Generate me. And oh, one through 100 duh. 44. 44 is John Lester. - Okay, okay. - All right. So can I put my hand up? I need to apologize for something. - Why? - I posted a Luis Aureus Homer highlight the other day. - Is it all John Lester? - The first one was off Lester. I think it was Jordan Leandre, great kid, great follow. He told me I was going to hell. He goes, you will see the worst parts of hell for tweeting us in. Hey, hand up. I'm a fucking loser. - Shit to see old. Fuck dead. - John Lester. - What a career. What a career John Lester had with the Boston Red Sox. I've told this story before. I, the last time I took a vacation before this past November was when I went to Disney with my family, the summer going into my junior year of high school. And that's when John Lester made his big league debut. This guy, I mean, he was the reason why the Red Sox should never just back down for, oh, he's 30 and he's a picture. We can't sign that guy. Like John Lester was the dude that came in and said, I'm a homegrown talent. I have career long Jeviti. I want the ball in big games and not just who I want the ball, but I'm going to deliver for you in big games. The mark of a being able to overcome adversity dude was handed a shit card and cancer overcame that to then pitch in the World Series in 2007. He was a big piece of what they had going on in 2013. I think because of the Red Sox flawed philosophy he ended up with the Cubs. He had that quote, like, you're going to have to tear the Red Sox jersey off my back and they did. They tore the Red Sox jersey off his back. I think the, I can't, I mean, it was another like Xander situation where the spring training offer was just like a slap in the face. It was like four for 70 or something like that. Yeah, that's what the number was. And then I think the final offer was like six for 135, maybe. And he said, I believe it. I listened to the section 10 interview less than a year ago. I remember I went back. He thought he was coming back, right? Wasn't that the entire message? Yeah, he definitely thought he was coming back, but it was another one where they lowballed them in spring training. And yeah, it really sucks. I mean, it was cool though to see him do what he did in Chicago, like being a part of that 2016 World Series Championship team with the Cubs, it was awesome to watch. Admittedly, I think for, you know, I speak for a lot of Red Sox fans that it was, it was weird, especially when you have David Ross, like David Ross, like is Rossi and Leicester and they go on a win a title together and Boston. And they do it again in Chicago. But yeah, I remember that year where he was chasing, what was that 2009 or 10 where he was chasing 20 wins. And then he had a chance in his last game and somebody fucked it up. It was 2010. 2010. 19 and 9. Yeah. John Leicester. 110 wins with the Red Sox. 110 in 63 with a 3 6 4. That's the craziest part. Jared, do you, if I tell you the team, you think you'll remember what happened? Yeah, Cleveland. Cleveland. New York right before that. What's like, yeah, back into. Like, who blew it? Yeah. Oh, wait, hold on, I clicked on 9. I was supposed to flip on 20. I'm a fucking fraud. 2010 last started the year against Chicago. It was a loss. White Sox. He got the loss or someone in the bullpen got the loss. I believe he did. He got his dick kicked in or any really. Damn. What happened in that game? Let me see. I think what's crazy about John Leicester's career is that in nine years with Boston, he had a 3 64 ERA and a winning percentage of 636. And then with the Cubs, he had a 3 64 ERA and a 636 winning percentage. Model of consistency. How crazy is that? That was the thing about John Leicester. And like, you got those years with the Cubs where he, it turned out, those end of Red Sox tenure, beginning at Cubs, like you saw a guy kind of transform. Everyone called John Leicester a two forever. Like, I remember that being the constant conversation you saw him morph into that playoff beast. Like World Series game one, like, I always think when I pictured John Leicester in my head, that guy who went out there and shoved and set the tone for that World Series, like, it lives with me. Like even 2008, I feel like John Leicester is like such a crucial part of my childhood. I remember the first time I ever saw my dad cry, right? My dad was not an emotional guy, not at all. But when Leicester threw his no hitter in '08, and Tito walked up there and you're seeing them have their moment, he shed a tear. And I was like, holy fuck, like I remember the nests and post game and like all that playing out and that just always lives with me. John Lester was such a, I don't know, he was the young guy when I first started watching baseball was like, because you know, Clay was getting that first taste and them coming up. And you obviously had Josh Beckett lead in the rotation and all, but John Lester was kind of at the center of it. And it says enough that after all these years, even after the bull guard situation, I don't think anything will ever ring as loudly for this generation of Red Sox fans is letting John Lester walk. Yeah. Because it's what happened. Who knows, maybe bull guards like a sea end up doing something similar, but we don't get to hold John Lester as close to us anymore. We really do have to share him with the city of Chicago. We do. And I'm fine with that because it's like, as long as they understand that he's ours too. Like I don't want everyone to get into a debate with a Cubs fan, he's more ours. It's like, I feel like it is kind of 50 50. And if anything, we have the kids to ring more. Yeah, you got two rings here. Got one there. Obviously the 2016 Chicago Cubs championship. Like if we were talking like all four versus 16, then it's different. But like, you know, 16 kind of counts as two in a way. Yeah, I think Cubs fans probably understand, like, you know, it's it's 50 50. Like we are we're co-parenting with John Lester. I I really enjoyed that John Lester interview. I don't know if they might like they might have deleted it. It's probably exists somewhere. But it's on YouTube, right? Oh, yeah, it might be on YouTube. You're right. But getting to actually sit down and talk to John Lester after all those years. Like he was he was one of those guys that he was on the red socks during the time of my life where I was like doing it as a job. But I wasn't close enough yet. Like I wasn't like in like on like the inner circle yet. So he was still like, he had eluded me. Like we hadn't ever had a relationship. I met him at a charity event one time, I think in like 2009 or 10. We we had never really met or crossed paths before. So it's a finally after he had retired, he has the same agent as Dustin Padroia, the Levinson brothers. So to get to, you know, have Lester like we yet we section 10 did Dustin Padroia's first interview after he retired. And then we got Lester not long after he retired too. And that was kind of set up through them. They were like, yeah, like, you know, you guys should do this. I was like, yes, we should. Was it like Pat like so fucking nervous to during that interview? Like I know. Yeah. I remember him just like there was maybe it was a bit or part of it, but he was just like extremely intimidated. And I felt like I never saw that out of Pat ever. Well, since I've known, you know, he had revealed that I mean, they were quote unquote teammates. Like he had like Pat light had a spring training with the red socks that one year where John Lester was in camp. And I think he had to throw a bullpen in front of John Lester. And he admitted how nervous he was to do that at the time. Yeah, imagine that Pat light teammate of John Lester and David Ortiz. And does the joy. He tells he tells that story all the time about, uh, I can't remember the exact details, but like Pat was pitching. And then all of a sudden he turned around. He saw Padroia walking out to the mound. He's like, oh, fuck, he's like, I was gonna get my ass chewed out right now. My foot. But yeah, for for all the business pat like we we know business Pat far more than we know red socks tenure Pat, but yeah, Pat light former teammate of John Lester doesn't be joy in David Ortiz. And like with John Lester, it really is a dying breed. Like that's not the guy you're going to see in the big leagues anymore. That is like so kind of old school old sturdy ace. Like I'm just going to go out there at my stuff is never the best out of anybody's like no one's going to ever look at me and think I'm overpowering anyone. He just was an old school bulldog. And like that's something you can appreciate. Like he fit into that same mold of like a John Lackie and these other names that just doesn't really feel like baseball like maybe Lancelin is like the closest thing to that today. But even that it's not exactly the same. And I pulled up Lester's postseason numbers here. Oh my fucking god. They're so ridiculous. You want to hear him? Please. 154 innings. Obviously between the red socks, Cubs, yeah, but one playoff start for the A's. Yeah. 251 ERA and 154 innings. So seasons worth the innings. He was an ace in the postseason. Pretty much. How many in it? Crazy. 154. Pretty good. Pretty good. I remember that A's start. He lost, right? Yes. They traded sespidus to get John Lester to pitch in the postseason. And I think it was a one game play in game. You're right. And shout out to John Lester because without that trade while I wish it never did happen. We don't know. Maybe you'll resign him. You get porcelain, right? So like, you know, Rick porcelain is no John Lester. Don't get me wrong. But at least you know, we gave up something we loved to the utmost degree. We got something else. We ended up loving a decent amount. Yeah. Jake, what are your John Lester thoughts? I remember his interview was like one of the first section, then episodes ever produced like. Yeah, I done like two or three episodes and then you're like, we got Lester tomorrow or something. I was like, fuck. Make sure I'm on a game for this one. But uh, yeah, I mean, it was, yeah, just a all-time legend. I was at his no-hater with my grandma. So that was a cool memory I have of him. But yeah, just red socks through him through that guy. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I wish I had more like Lester stories. But I mean, like, I feel like every Lester moment is a moment that we've all shared together. Like, yeah. The World Series titles, the no-hater. Yeah, I mean, that dude, his relationship with Frank Conan was awesome too. It was like truly a father-son-ish relationship. You know, I don't want to take away from, you know, the release should be actually has with that or anything. But to see the pride that Terry Francona had watching, you know, what he did in the World Series and then that no-hater, like, dude, it just rung so loudly you could see in Tito's heart. And that's why he's such a great manager. It meant as much to him as what anybody could have ever done. It was like watching your kid achieve his dreams. It was almost like John Lester was traded for Rick Porcelo and David Price. In some way, yeah, that was the fallout in the ultimate consequence where they felt like they had to do it. Yeah. Like, you trade John Lester for UN access but it's who you trade for Rick Porcelo, who you extend for four years. And you sign David Price because the fan base was revolting because you didn't pay John Lester and you needed an ace. And they were like, all right, let's spend $217 million on David Price. So I remember game four of the World Series in '07. I was at a haunted house that night with my mom and my sister and my mom had like a foot phone and back then it was weird. You could like download and watch like little clips but you couldn't watch anything live. It was like through Verizon. And I used to do only two things. You guys, Jake, me know. I used to download naked brothers band like some of their jams. Jake, you familiar? Nickelodeon. Yes. Yes. Dude, they had bangers. People on the subreddit, they'll know the bangers. Jared, you definitely don't. It was out of your era. I don't want to go to school. Yeah, as bars, just strictly bars. But I remember watching as I, I think they were, it was just their titled album. They could brothers. But actually, that might have been the name of the project. Bangers, not an Alex Wolf, but I was watching those clips while I was at the haunted house. And I remember I got home just in time to see the end of the game, but my mom had dragged me out because I was like, you know, what, nine years old or whatever it was. And I was just calling my dad like every 20 minutes to get up. Sick project. Naked brothers band and you fucking learn something. You'll learn some real awesome music right there. People know. I feel like I have to apologize to listeners. Play if that's not love. If you really want to feel something, that brings me back to like summer 2005. I grew my hair out because I thought I was going to be like, nah, well, if I thought I had that kind of, that was before Justin Bieber. This is when you were really dreaming on something. And I thought that was the look I was going to do. It just, I'd go, you know, I show up to supercuts and they'd be like, give me the skater cut. You go to supercuts when I was at age. Yeah. Okay. I didn't grow into my barber phase. We got to we got to fix that. What do you mean? I go to I mean, you look good. You look good. You look really good. Thank you. You time. But I feel like I have to apologize to listeners. They'll tell you, I feel like I've been really down this episode. It's a hard time. A lot of people were tweeting saying we need therapy. I feel like we've walked the line. We were serious. We've hit on everything. We haven't had many laughs this episode. All socks talk. A lot of socks talk. But it was needed today. I mean, before we go, I definitely have to ask you about your Fenway experience on Saturday. It was good. It was very good. I was hurt that you didn't come and see me as I told you before we started. You didn't ask me to come see you. I thought you said you were going to come say hi. You're like, you're, oh, no, wait. Let Let me tell you, I'll paint the picture here. Jared, yeah. You go. Where are you at? I send a picture and then you sent something to me. Maybe it was the pictures that you had taken earlier, but I was confused because I thought you were on the other side. You're an idiot. Yeah, so this kid, like, I'm sitting to his left and he's like, where are you? No, I said, where are you? And he showed me his point of view. So I found him in the crowd and I zoomed in and I took pictures of him and I texted him to him. I'm clearly sitting to his left. I look at Tyler reading his text messages and just looks up and just looks to his right. And me and Steve are both sitting there and be like, this is kid fucking stupid. Why is he looking to his right? I'm very clearly to his left. I don't know. I'm an idiot. Clearly, I don't know what I'm doing. And I wasn't used to the dimensions, but I thought you were going to come and see me. I did have a very embarrassing moment, 10 minutes of getting there. So, you know, I drove into Boston and typically I hate driving into the city, but I got parking ahead of time. I was like, we're going to make this chill and easy. Get in. I had my little sausage as I was walking in, you know, doing my whole thing, little pregame snack. Get in the ballpark. I see the pizza like dog. You know what would hit right now? Well, a little slice of pizza. So I grabbed the pizza. Sit down at my seat and I start munching on that shit. Martha's like, hey, I don't want any. Like, I'm not trying to eat heavy. We're going out after the game. I was like, cool, whatever. I get the pizza. I spill grease all over my shorts. Like bad damage, bad all over my dick area. So it looks like I was either pissing all over the place or I didn't know what I was doing. And immediately in my head, I was like, oh my god. If someone comes up and sees me like this, you know, I get clowned on for people thinking I had to stain on my shirt and the commercial. This will be 10 times worse. But only a couple of people did end up coming up. We took some pictures. Whatever was very nice. All good interactions. But yeah, you didn't come. I recognize a couple of people came and said, what's up? What do they say? Oh, a lot of them, like, I, you know, I've been a fan since the section 10 days. I'm happy that you're on the pod now. Art Ristam Peace Bull at every single person said it. And it's just quick selfie. Two of them were and I was like legit leaving like right after it happened. And I was so distraught after how the game ended. Because Martha's like, hey, can we take pictures? And I was like, stop talking. I'm at least like I am trying to do. I'm watching the replay and like, I don't know if you saw it. Well, Jared, when it happened, I was watching Kiermeyer and, you know, get under the ball. So I didn't see any of the rounding until, you know, he catches it and throws it back in. And I'm like, what the fuck? And I'm trying to watch on Twitter and understand what people are saying. Like, I immediately was like, what the fuck is Ristam Aguayr doing celebrating ended up realizing it was really on both of them. But yeah, I was very confused, but it was a good experience. I was happy to be back at Fenway and I'm going to be back there in a couple of weeks. Oh, you are. Yes. I'm going with a couple of my boys. Okay. I owe them a trip. Yeah. And they were all when they saw the pictures you posted, they were all pissed that I was going to a game first. What the, Martha? I take that feeling that you had to multiply by a billion in 2021 when the Red Sox lost to the Astros. And I'm trying to walk out of Fenway and people like, man, can I get a picture? I'm like, I appreciate the support so much, but I don't want my suicide photographed. I want a fucking die right now. And can you at least give me 10 minutes to just get over this loss? Just 10 minutes. I feel that. And that's why it, but it's still so new to me too at the same time. When it happens, I'm like, I think I did something wrong or I stepped on someone or someone's like, dude, move your fucking head, get out of my way. So when everyone would come up and be like, oh, hey, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'd be like, oh, yeah, no, cool. Let's do it. And I'd snap out. But yeah, I was a disaster. It was fun. I love to be in there. That's the only time in my life, I feel like I might have given like a listener a bad fan experience. That's my biggest worry. They have to understand like, hey, the Red Sox just lost a nut punch, a playoff game to the Astros. And it just happened 45 seconds ago. Like, I need a minute. Please. That's the only time. I've never been prickly ever. Like, I've been in some bad moods, but it's like, if someone comes up, that changes your mood. It's like, oh, cool, man. Like, he listens to the podcast and like, that makes me feel good. But immediately after a bad playoff loss, I was just like, I've never wanted the invention of like a like a teleporter more than after those Astros playoff games. Like, I just get me the fuck out of here. I can't imagine what is like for you at the game, because in my head, not in a dickhead way, right? I'm not trying to be a dickhead, but you know that meme, the guy in the corner and like everyone's talking at the party and like in his head, he's like, they don't know that I'm like this. I was like, in my head, I'm like, fuck, like I was around old people, like very older people. So I was like, they definitely don't know who I am. But like other people looking at me and like, look at this fucking idiot at his first Red Sox game in this year. This clown shuffling pizza down his throat. As Martha's like looking at me and like, are you okay? Like are you all right? Um, but it was fun. I had a lot of fun and I'll be back soon. Hopefully next time you come and say something to me. Yeah, hopefully next time you ask me and I will fucking dickhead. Excuse me? What? The man who can walk wherever he would in Fenway would not walk to his boy. You're not. You want me to ask? You come say hi to me? How pathetic is that? All I have to say is like, come say hi. I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, damn Tyler. Like, let me come through. Let me say what's up? Let me say how do you and Martha? It's also, it's also awkward because there's probably no open seat in your back. That's true. Like the walkway. So I'm just going to stay in there and the fucking walkway and block everyone's views. Well, at one point, someone like was behind me and their back like brushed up against me. And I thought it was you doing like one of those like arm around like, hey, man, like how you doing? I was like, oh, like, Jared, and then I turned around and sweating dude right behind me just like trying to get by. I was like, all right. Well, clearly unloved. Sorry, I cut out. It's okay. I was talking about how I thought you wrapped your arm around me at one point. I would never do that. So that's why you know that it wasn't me. It felt almost like you. It felt like you like in my head, I picture how your touch would feel. That's how I pictured it. I think we've embraced before maybe a little bit. You'll see me excuse me. You'll see me once I'll be in my element. Yeah. Jacob. Yes, I am excited to see both of you. And I want to thank the people who called in on Friday when I hosted the baseball hour as well to pay their tributes. We had full lines from the first segment on. I'm sorry. We didn't take that many calls. I definitely was working through the kinks, but it was fun. People pay their respects to the bowl on the air. Yes, they did. Very good calls. Like they were like a couple people prospect stuff, you know, regular red socks stuff, trade deadline. And I was super nervous. People probably could tell. But I thought it wouldn't solve it. And Ian Cundle shout out to him for joining me. He was awesome. Just we did 15 minutes on everything in the system. And it was some of my favorite radio listening or doing. So very good. And we'll do one say. I think, you know, get more reps underneath my belt. Continue to build on that. And I do want to say, you're going to be nervous with me. No, I'll feel a lot better with you. I didn't realize. I'm your guest. But it's easier when you have someone to bounce off of. I guess in that first segment, I really learned what it was like to talk for 13, 14 minutes without anybody else. Yeah. You know, because I didn't have J. Stu there or anyone, but hey, I learned it. I did it. Was it perfect? No, but who the fuck's going to be perfect the first time? I was doing headlines for the first time. I was doing an hourly like a lot of first that day. Did I see somewhere that the red socks are going to wear their yellow jerseys tomorrow? Oh, are they really? Did I see that somewhere? Hold on. I haven't looked at Twitter. Give you one and a year. Did I see that? Wait, what? Oh, I just got a weird SDM from who? I will not say, but I'll tell you once I get off here. Oh, boy. What was I saying? What were we talking about? I'm sorry. Nothing. Anyways, yeah, I just lost my whole train of thought. It's Tim Anderson. Some Anderson just set out like 50 tweets in a row. You know all this happening for a reason. We stay focused with this shit, but in going through this shit for a minute, we ain't never tripping this shit bigger. We gone catch up with them later. Keep kicking on me while I'm down. A lot of mother fuckers been switching up to #fakeshit and who the fuck gave loser his opinions? Y'all got me fucked up for real. Hope you picking up what I'm putting down to the picture bigger. That was like nine tweets in a row. It just went off. Bro, that right hand, Jose Ramirez, whole leaf. That's the best baseball fight I've seen since Bautista, O'Dour. That was UFC quality drop. I mean, he bundled them. I thought for sure that he tripped. I saw the live clip and I was like, oh, he must have just slapped him and he lost his balance. Like no, no, no, he went out for a second. That was some that was Um, all right. Uh, any final thoughts? Jake's takes. Oh, yeah, we didn't do the fucking stop. I was about to say, right? Fucking damn it. I'm going through a quick because I don't want to fucking talk about baseball anymore. I really don't. Let's, let's speedrun it. Yeah. All right, we got to take a break and talk about Zen nicotine pouches. We're always talking about what a team needs to get to number one, but Zen nicotine pouches are already there. Zen has helped millions of people achieve a lasting change, earning the title of America's number one nicotine pouch. 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No, they're not, and they're trying to figure out how they want to kind of label it out here. Of course, we'll figure it out as we go, basically. Honestly, when a fucking game and you get the style of chopper look head back, yeah, when a fucking game. Yeah. In terms of other stuff, we're not going to be getting, you're not going to see sale in the series unless, no, he won't pitch Thursday and you're probably not going to see story unless he plays that first day after. Like, this is what, what episode is this? This is episode 113. So like franchise over 500 episodes. This is probably like the, the lowest energy that I've ever had for an episode ever. Like, that's what this team has done to me because of their style of play and just how fucking whiny they are behind the scenes. Like, I just, I don't have it. I don't have it today. Like, I feel like this is probably the first time, maybe ever in the history of this podcast where I feel like I can go back and look at my effort and be like, you didn't have it today. Like, I just, and that's their fault. I mean, I'm taking accountability, but I'm also placing blame. I mean, if this team wasn't, wasn't the way that they are, I feel like I wouldn't be this way. Like, I would, I would consider myself to be a pretty hard worker. I feel like I dedicate a lot of my time and energy to my job, but I am fucking exhausted and it is because a lot of the bullshit around this fucking baseball team. So that's some fucking baseball game. Yeah, go in a fucking game and, and help me out here. I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go three out of four. I'm joining you. I'll be right there. You're gonna get three starters in the series. No matter what between Bayo, Cutter and Paxson. Uh, find out if you can't find a way. I don't give a fuck that the world has been playing good baseball lately. I do not give a fuck find a way. And a majority of your best arms did get rested today. So play that into what you need. You just need Bayo to show up and be Bayo tomorrow. We can't have what's existed the second half. We need the first half Bayo. I'm going split. What? This is just fucked up. This is wrong. You can't do that. Yeah, I'm going split. It's for the same reason. I was saying I'd fuck there. I don't have the energy to even go reverse sweep. Like when I go reverse sweep, it's like, all right, boys, like we got a big series coming up. Like we need this one. I definitely can't go sweep. So I'm just handcuffed right now and I feel like I just got to go split. That's sound logic. Sound logic. This is a very depressing episode. I guess out of here. Yeah, you know what? Take me home. We'll see. We'll see on Thursday. I mean, we're all in this together. Protect protects what's in between the years. That's so you to protect protect your peace is what we like to say. Vibes are down. But it's not over, right? No, not over. It'll continue. The ride will continue. The roller coaster will seize to keep working. I feel like I feel like we have a couple more ups before that final down. The last one's going to hit the hardest probably. But we're two first. There'll be ups. There's going to be moments where people are back in this year. I'll tell you that one. Yeah, that's that's probably where I'm at. I feel like there are a couple more ups, but there will be that final down. That much I know is certain. But we'll hang in for those ups and we'll prepare for for those downs. When a sto chase and he goes.