Speaker 1Welcome to the Naked Bible Podcast, episode 361, Revelation.
Speaker 2Revelation 2, 8-3-29. I'm the layman, Trey Strickland, and he's the scholar, Dr. Michael Heiser. Hey, Mike, what's going on?
Speaker 3Well, I'm sitting in my office that is, again, torn apart. So I have to move my office again. This is the third time since I've been here, hopefully the last. And no, I don't like moving my office, so I'm not just doing this for giggles.
Speaker 2Well, this is why I recommended you have a home library. And not have to lug your books around. Who should I kick out?
Speaker 3Who's the low-hanging fruit here? Oh, boy. Well,
Speaker 2someday we'll get there. Yeah, I hear you. Well, Mike, I guess since we didn't talk too much fantasy throughout the year, we can talk about your Packers.
Speaker 3Oh, yeah. Yeah, as of this recording, we are headed into. Into the NFL Championship weekend, so by the time people hear this, there will already have been an outcome. So if. I don't know. I don't know. Would I tweet something about a Packers win or loss or not? I don't know. Maybe I should just keep people in suspense or better. Just keep my thoughts to myself. Yeah. But my Packers are. So I am desperately hoping to see the Packers in the Super Bowl.
Speaker 2Hopefully my. Fellow Red Raider, Patrick Mahomes. Yeah, Mahomes. Yeah. Texas Tech. Yeah.
Speaker 3Yeah. Well, I mean, I have another reason, too. I desperately don't want to see Tom Brady in another Super Bowl. I'm just so tired of hearing about him. You know, for those of you who are football fans out there. All three of them. Just stop. Okay. You know, you're all three of them. You know, it's like if you put Brady back on the Patriots, he'd look a lot like Cam Newton. You know, he just. Of course he looks good because he has all this stuff around him, all this talent around him. But I mean. I'm just so tired of hearing about he's 43 and doing this or that. Well, yeah, George Blanda did it, too. Have you ever seen a picture of George Blanda? You know, there's a difference there. But still, I'm just tired of it.
Speaker 2Go Pack. Oh, my God. I forgot to mention this. Our last Q&A when I asked you about the UFOs and we talked to Fantasy, somebody commented on Facebook, said. Somebody from the Pentagon commented? No. That'd been funny. They probably would have done that privately. However, somebody commented. I tuned in for my first episode and they're talking sports and aliens gag or something, you know? And I was like, what a perfect episode to tune in for your first time. I actually think I told you that. Yeah. Hey, we earned it. Yeah, I think I told you that. We earned the right. Look. Right. Well, it's like. I think I. Didn't I say something like, yeah, somebody's going to tune in for the first time and hear this, you know? Yeah. Well, you were correct. So there you go. Yeah. I'm a prophet now. Yeah. And I'm not apologizing for it either. No. It is what it is. But. Yeah. All right, Mike.
Speaker 3Well. Take heart. You single listener out there who posted that comment, if you've tuned back in, that doesn't happen every week.
Speaker 2No. Not at all. Not at all. Unless we're winning in Fantasy, then. Right. We'll talk about it every chance we get.
Speaker 3It could be worse, you know? It could be political talk or something like that, you know? Nobody wants to hear that. I guess worse would be, like, reviews of every Ancient Aliens episode. Yeah. That would be worse. A lot of things that would be worse.
Speaker 2Homework. Yeah. I'd get behind that. That'd be fun. Oh, yeah. All right, Mike. Well, we're wrapping up Revelation 2 today, aren't we?
Speaker 3Yeah, we are. Yep, we are. We're going to get all the way through because, again, this isn't, you know, verse by verse or anything like that. We just. We go through the chapter and if it has some link. Link back into the Old Testament. You know, John referencing something in the Old Testament, doing something with an Old Testament passage. That's our focus. We are not going through Revelation to talk about Black Hawk helicopters and microchips and nanotechnology and all that kind of stuff. If you want that, you can read my novels, okay? Because, you know, we like to do stuff like that in there. But for this podcast, it's biblical theology. We look at the text. And so, Revelation. Repurposes the Old Testament a lot. And if you've been following the series up to this point, you know that it gets messy, too. Because John just sort of assumes that you have a solid grasp of the Old Testament. You're sort of going to know where he's getting stuff. And then you'll be able to ask the question, why are you doing that, John? And, again, if you have a real good grasp of your Old Testament, you'll sort of be able to figure that out. So that's what we're doing as we're tracking through Revelation. And the last time we took the first seven verses, the letter to the. To the Ephesian church. And in this case, we're going to pick up a few more churches in verses 8 through 29, which is toward the end of the chapter. But we're going to have to do a little review from the last episode. Because in this chapter, we hit, for instance, the Nicolaitans, which we need to say something about in this episode. But we already commented on it in the last episode. And we actually ended last time with a reference to the Nicolaitans. Again, that was verse 6 at the time. But we're going to run into the. The Nicolaitans again in Revelation 2, 14 and 15. And I'm not going to spend too much time on this. But if you recall, last time I quoted from Aln's commentary on Revelation, his Word Biblical commentary. And, by the way, his name is spelled A-U-N-E. And he wrote, The Nicolaitans are mentioned explicitly only in Revelation 2.6 in the proclamation to Ephesus and 2.15 in the proclamation to Pergamon. In 2.6, it is simply said the Ephesian Christians hate the works, i.e. the behavior of the Nicolaitans, and in verses 14 and 15, the "teaching of Balaam" is apparently identical with the "teaching of the Nicolaitans." And that behavior, that teaching consists of eating meat previously sacrificed to pagan deities and the practice of fornication. Aln goes on in his commentary to wonder if Revelation 2, 20 and 21, with its reference to "that woman Jezebel," might be linked to the teaching of the Nicolaitans. And in verses 14 and 15, the quote, teaching of Balaam, is apparently identical with the quote, teaching of the Nicolaitans, unquote. And that behavior, that teaching consists of eating meat previously sacrificed to pagan deities and the practice of fornication. You know, Aln goes on in his commentary to wonder if Revelation 2, 20 and 21, with its reference to quote, that woman Jezebel, unquote, might be linked to the teaching of Balaam, unquote, and the practice of fornication. Aln goes on in his commentary to wonder if Revelation 2, 20 and 21, with its reference to the teaching of Balaam, unquote, and the practice of fornication. You know, Aln goes on in his commentary to wonder if Revelation 2, 20 and 21, with its reference to quote, that woman Jezebel, unquote, and the practice of fornication. Aln goes on in his commentary to wonder if Revelation 2, 20 and 21, with its reference to quote, that woman Jezebel, unquote, and the practice of fornication. There's a reference to the Synagogue of Satan, the synagogue of Satan. Let me just read the reference, you know, get a little context here for you all. So Revelation 2.9, I know your tribulation and your poverty, but you are rich and the slander of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan. Okay, so there's this reference to this thing. John continues in verse 10, do not fear what you are about to suffer. Behold, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison that you may be tested. And for 10 days you will have tribulation. Be faithful unto death, and I will give you the crown of life. He who has an ear to hear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. The one who conquers will not be hurt by the second death. Okay, so that's essentially the guts of the letter to the church at Smyrna. That's Revelation 2.8-11. And we get this reference to the synagogue. Synagogue of Satan in verse 9. We're going to see the same, you know, or same or similar reference later in 3.9. So the question is, you know, what is that? Now, some, you know, say just because we have the word synagogue here, synagoge, that has led some to say that the phrase synagogue of Satan is inherently, again, that's a key word, inherently anti-Semitic. And that, I'm here to say, is nonsense. Okay, yes, John is angry at a very specific Jewish, Jewish opposition, which leads to followers of Jesus being persecuted. Well, duh, like, who wouldn't be angry? You know, if you, let's say you're a bunch of Italians or Germans or Swedes or whatever, you know, and you're betraying essentially your countrymen, of course you're going to be angry. You just shouldn't do that. But again, a Jew, and please recall, John is a Jew. Okay, the writer is a Jew. But a Jew being angry at a fellow Jew for persecuting fellow Jews for embracing Jesus as Messiah. Isn't anti-Semitism, you know, this whole cloth kind of thing. So I would say if you think that, you need to check your definition of anti-Semitism. Because anti-Semitism is focused on ethnicity. Okay, you're just that class of person. You're a Jew. Okay, you're a Jew, therefore I hate you because you're a Jew. Okay, the writer's a Jew. I mean, saying that John is anti-Semitic is like being angry at a criminal who has harmed you and then being accused of being anti-Human. Well, the criminals are human, so you don't like that criminal, so you must be anti-Human. It's just ridiculous. Okay, my point is that people can be angry at people for wicked things they do and not have that mean. They are angry at all people in that particular villain's subculture. So John thinks they're liars and false Jews because Jews, at least according to the Torah, remember the Torah? Okay. According to the Torah, Jews were supposed to treat their brethren, their fellow Jews, with justice. Anyone who, you know, thinks clearly ought to see that out of the gate. I mean, just if you know the Torah, this is Torah. This is the law. This is how you treat your fellow, you know, countrymen. And obviously these Jews in this context were not doing that. Now, you could say, well, you know, okay, these Christian Jews, you know, they're violating the Torah. You know, they're holding, you know, beliefs that aren't correct about the Messiah. Well, sure, but why don't you just expunge them from synagogues? You're not, we're not welcome here anymore. Why do you have to turn them over to the Romans for execution or torture or whatever? Okay, it's violating the Torah. Okay, this is, these are not principles of justice. It's not just designed to protect the community. It's designed to punish and kill. Okay, so that they are violating the Torah and persecuting brethren means that these offenders, okay, are aligned with evil. And of course, John would add that they are aligned with evil because they also reject the Messiah. I mean, John obviously believes Jesus is the Messiah, so we have a problem there. But again, this is a doctrinal disagreement. And we're not dealing with a theocracy here because the Jews aren't in charge of anything. What they're doing is they're turning their fellow brethren that they have this theological disagreement over to persecution and death. And yeah, that's something to be angry at if you're John, but that doesn't mean you think they're in charge of anything. You don't put these offenders, you know, you don't let the offenders color the whole category because he is one of them. And their mission is to, you know, win them over to believing in Jesus as the Messiah. They can't just turn their back and go away because that would be disobeying their Messiah. I mean, this is part of why, you know, Jesus came. So, you know, this is an overblown but very easy to make accusation when it comes to, the synagogue of Satan language. It has a context. The context is very specific. It's very understandable. So, let's just sort of have a grasp on the obvious here when we look at this phrase. Now, you also have throne of Satan that's going to, you know, show up. And we need to understand synagogue of Satan, you know, they're of the synagogue of Satan with the throne of Satan. And the throne of Satan is not Jewish. It's not, you know, it's not, you know, it's not a synagogue. It is a place specifically in Pergamon or Pergamum. You see it pronounced either way and spelled either way in verse 13. So, we're going to find out that the clearest reference to that is the pagan authority. So, that alone should tell you that we are not dealing with anti-Semitism. We are dealing with a subsect of the Jewish community in league with pagan ruling authorities. To persecute and kill their own brethren. That's the context. So, let's check our anti-Semitism definition and have it make more sense. And if you look at the context, it's very evident. This is what John is angling for. Verses 10 and 11, I'll read them again. Do not fear what you are about to suffer. He tells, you know, members of the church at Smyrna who are being, you know, persecuted by the, quote, synagogue of Satan. Don't fear what you're about to suffer. Behold, the devil is about to. throw some of you into prison that you may be tested. And for 10 days, you'll have tribulation. You know, later in chapter 3, you know, when we get the synagogue of Satan reference again, and, you know, again, we're going to loop throne of, you know, throne of Satan in here in a moment. We read this in chapter 3. This is verse 9, verses 9 through 11. Behold, I will make those of the synagogue of Satan who say that they are Jews and are not, but lie. Behold, I will make them come and bow down, before your feet, and they will learn that I have loved you. Because you have kept my word about patient endurance, I will keep you from the hour of trial that is coming on the whole world to try those who dwell on the earth. I am coming soon. In other words, what does John suggest should be the response of those persecuted toward their Jewish brethren? Does he say, get revenge, retaliate? No, he says, you know, deal with the suffering. Do not fear that you're about to suffer. To use an Old Testament phrase, John opts for vengeance belongs to God. Let God handle it. He does not recommend retaliation. Vengeance is the Lord's. That's not for you to decide. So again, John's the writer here. It would be kind of weird if he was really anti-Semitic for him to recommend a suffering response. So like I said, let's check our definitions here so that they make sense before we start, you know, blathering on about it. But continuing, Satan's throne comes up in 2.13. Let me just read that verse. This is to the church at Pergamum. I know where you dwell, where Satan's throne is. You hold fast my name. You do not deny my faith, even the days of Antipas, my faithful witness, who was killed among you where Satan dwells. So there we have a very obvious reference to persecution again, but we have this Satan's throne. Now there's no specific, Old Testament touchpoint for this. Indirectly, though, in Revelation, Satan is connected to the dragon. There's the dragon figure in several passages. Revelation 12 is one of those, but there's at least one other. And the dragon, of course, is a clear chaos image. Now this, you know, this imagery prompts Owen to write this. This is again from his commentary. The fact that Thronos, throne, is articulate, has the definite article. Suggests that the author is alluding to a specific throne, either literally or figuratively, which he expects the readers to recognize. The throne of Satan, i.e. the throne of the dragon, is mentioned again in 13, Revelation 13, verse 2, where the dragon, previously identified by such aliases as the devil and Satan in 12.9, the dragon gives it to the beast from the sea, which clearly suggests the association of Satan and the dragon. And so, in Revelation 13, verse 2, there's the association of the throne with the imperial cult. The throne of the beast is again mentioned in 16.10, when the fifth bowl angel plunges his kingdom in darkness by pouring out the bowl of plagues on his throne. In neither 13.2 nor 16.10, however, is the throne localized, while in Revelation 2.13, it is placed in Pergamon. So basically, again, to decipher all that, Owen is arguing that, again, that this throne of Satan, or throne of the dragon, is connected with the beast of seeing, and a very obvious chaos imagery here, he's going to say, look, this is going to be associated with the kingdom, a kingdom, an authority, a power that represents chaos. And what's the term that John is going to use in Revelation for this kingdom? Babylon, okay? And who's the power of the day? Well, it's Rome. It's very obvious. So you're dealing with a reference, this throne of Satan, in this case in Pergamon, and then others, it's not as specific. You're dealing with imperial authority. And then here we go again, you have certain Jews that are turning their comrades, their brethren, even though they have this theological disagreement with, they're turning them over to the secular authorities for torture and death. This is the problem. So what about the throne of Satan, though? I'll throw this in, even though there's no clear Old Testament reference other than chaos imagery, which goes back to Babylon, which again is a term that John's going to use in the book. So it should be, put those data points together, connect those dots, it should be sort of obvious that this is an imperial power that is opposed to the kingdom of God. But Owen lists several options for interpreting the throne in the history of scholarship. And I thought I'd throw this in because some of you out there might find this interesting. As to where, you know, is there a place in Pergamon that, you know, we would associate with this? Like, if we could go back in time and we were in Pergamon and we walk up to somebody on the street and say, hey, you know, where's the, where's the throne of the dragon? Or probably better, because that sounds pejorative to a pagan, you know, living in Pergamon. Hey, where's the seat of authority? You know, where would I go? Like, we're all, you know, all the power is held, you know, what spot in the city? So that's what, that's what Owen is trying to get at here. You know, what, you could use certain phrases. And if you were talking to a citizen, they, oh, it's this place or that place. There are certain candidates, okay, as to how this question could be answered. And here's his list. I'm not going to go through all his notes here, but this, this comes from his commentary. Number one, the Temple of Augustus is a candidate, perhaps originally built at the foot of the Acropolis of Pergamon by permission of Augustus in 29 BC. So this is going to be around when John, you know, is writing. The specific site, though, for us, for moderns, though, has never been located. It no longer exists. And Owen comments, this view coheres well with the view expressed in the Testament of Job. Again, this is a Second Temple Jewish text. Testament of Job 3.5 and 4.4, where a pagan temple is called Hatapos to Satana, the place of Satan. So that's a candidate. Temple of Augustus, place of Satan, according to the Testament of Job. Okay, let's put that on the list. That might be it. Number two, the great altar of Zeus Soter. That, you know, that's Zeus, the savior. Okay. This elaborate column structure was constructed during the reign of Eumenes II, 197 to 59 BC, to commemorate a Pergamene victory of the Gauls in 190 BC. It was decorated with elaborate bas-reliefs depicting the Gigantomachy, that is the battle between the Gauls and the Romans. And it's a great, great, great, great, great, great, great, the Olympian gods and the giants. And, like the Temple of Augustus in Roma, was located on the Acropolis. Reportedly, this Acropolis could be seen from all sides at a great distance. Further, the equation of the altar and the throne is an ancient one. Now, I've actually put a link here on the episode page. You can go look at a reconstruction of the great altar of Zeus Soter with the gigantic altar. And it's a great, great, great, great, great, great, great, Antomachy, the battle between the Olympian gods and giants, the sculptures, that how it would have looked. Because there are pieces of this that remain. And there are actually several projects. And when I was in, oh, let's see, when I was in Vienna for an International Society of Biblical Literature meeting, boy, this was years ago, they had part of this on loan, I think, from the Museum at Berlin, which is where you could go see it. And it's, you know, it's pretty spectacular, you know, the recreation. But it's obviously associated with the wars between the gods and the giants. And so this becomes a candidate for Satan's throne. Again, nobody's sure, but it's kind of an interesting possibility. Third, the judge's bench or tribunal where the proconsul sat to judge could be referred to here as the throne of Satan. The Roman proconsul, again, it's imperial authority. This is where the imperial, you know, figure who's going to decide cases where he sits. The Roman proconsul resided at Pergamon, and it was to Pergamon that Christians in the surrounding area were brought after being denounced by informers, even at a later date. Fourth, the temple of Asclepios. Asclepios was linked in special ways with the symbol of the serpent, which Christians associated with Satan. Okay, Revelation 12, 2 Corinthians 11. I mean, so this becomes a possibility too. Number five, Pergamon as a center of persecution. In other words, really the city itself. The throne of Satan, the dominion of Satan, again, just as Pergamon generally, which caused the oppression of Christians. Okay, so there's a possibility there. And, you know, on sites, verse 13 here about Antipas being slain, again, a martyr, so on and so forth, where Satan dwells. You know, so maybe it's just a reference to the city or the town. It's certainly not a Jewish group. You know, it's of authority. Number six, he offers Pergamon as a major center of the imperial cult. Maybe, again, it's the city for that reason. Maybe, number seven, Pergamon is to be thought of as the seat of the throne of Satan because it was a center for Greco-Roman pagan religion generally. The city was filled with idols. Maybe that's why. And lastly, he suggests the shape, it might refer to the shape of a hill on which the city was built, you know, having some sort of serpentine feature. Honestly, who knows? There are some good candidates there. I kind of favor the great altar of Zeus. But again, I'm not basing that on anything other than just the nature of the altar and the fact that, you know, Zeus claimed to be the most high. You know, we've talked about this, and I think in the first or second episode of this series, how Zeus was referred to as the most high. And that's, you know, the episode we talked about the name. If that's the case, it's associated by, you know, by Christians with the desire for another deity to be called most high, which would take their minds back to Isaiah 14, okay, and so on and so forth. You know, rebellion in the council. And again, I like the great altar of Zeus because it's about rebellion in the council, these wars, and you know, who knows? The honest answer is who knows, but I kind of prefer that one just because it has more than just one sort of connection to it. Now, all of that is sort of backdrop and kind of incidental or indirect references. Let's get to some specific Old Testament references. If we keep going in chapter two, and we're still in the letter to Pergamon, we get verse 17. He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who conquers, I will give some of the hidden manna, and I will give him a white stone with a new name written on the stone that no one knows except the one who receives it. Now, there are three, three metaphors essentially here for eternal life in Revelation 2, 17, and they all have Old Testament antecedents. So let's just break verse 17 down. The first one, the hidden manna. Of course, manna was the food of angels. There's a reference to that effect in Psalm 78, 25, and the Septuagint at 77, 25. Why is it called the food of angels? Well, it's food from heaven, and heaven is where the angels are. The food that they eat, this must be what angels eat because the food's dropping from heaven. It's Exodus 16, the story of the manna. You can also find references to manna because it's food from heaven, that this is the food that will be served at the ultimate meal with God, the marriage supper of the land, which is the gathering, the event, the gathering toward which all the previous biblical meals with God or that they are related to. There are lots of meals with God in the Old Testament. Genesis 18 is sort of an obvious one, but you've got Exodus 24, Moses and Nadav and Abihu and Aaron, they go up and sit with the elders. They see the God of Israel. They have a meal. There are a number of these kinds of events that foreshadow the ultimate meal with the Lord, which is the marriage supper of the Lamb, the day of the Lord. The day of the Lord meal when everything is consummated. And as I've mentioned before, where Leviathan is served for dinner, Leviathan is consumed. Chaos is consumed. It is no more. So there's a lot of imagery here. John 6, 31 through 35. Let's just read that because I think there's a tie in here with manna, obviously. This is the bread of life passage. Our fathers ate the manna in the wilderness as it is written. He gave them bread from heaven to eat. Jesus said to them, truly, truly, I say to you, it was not Moses who gave you the bread from heaven, but my father gives you the true bread. from heaven for the bread of god is he who comes down from heaven that would be me jesus you know and gives life to the world they said to him sir give us this bread always and then jesus in verse 35 i am the bread of life whoever comes to me shall not hunger whoever believes in me shall never thirst and then so on and so forth so the bread of life passage again food from heaven this whole idea and of course associated with jesus and that of that association in term makes us think of the marriage supper of the lamb all these ideas are related they're all connected and so this reference to hidden manna you know he who has an ear revelation 217 let him hear what the spirit says to the churches to the one who conquers the one who overcomes i will give some of the hidden manna in other words you're going to be at the table you're going to be at the table now beal writes this of this passage in his massive new international greek text commentary on revelation he writes the promise of hidden manna is a metaphorical portrayal of end time fellowship and identification with christ which will be consummated at the marriage supper of the lamb in which those refusing to participate in pagan feasts remember the idolatry problem those refusing to participate in pagan feasts they will be rewarded with that fellowship with that supper beal continues manna was also a portrayal of eschatological expectation in jewish writings then he cites a bunch of rabbinic texts this was a promise sometimes addressed to those not worshiping idols again if you refuse what's going on with idolatry and you'll get hidden manna this this is a it was a familiar thought again in the second temple period we're not going to eat the food served to idols you know we're not going to participate in these rituals because we want to have a seat at the table and we're not going to eat the food served to idols we're not going to have a seat at the table of the lord okay the messiah at the last day some have proposed beal continues that the hiddenness is linked to the jewish tradition that jeremiah hid the manna in the ark before the temple was destroyed and then it would be revealed again when the messiah came at second maccabees two four through seven you know we've done an episode a long time ago it seems now on the ark of the covenant what happened we get into this some of these jeremiah you know legends and when whatnot i did i did an episode of this on the fringe pop too but again beal comments that you know there were some that thought well jeremiah hit it it's going to come out you know when the messiah returns so on and so forth beal adds another thought this is not incompatible this whole set of ideas it's not incompatible with the understanding of the hiddenness described above so you know maybe the ark the presence of god you know it sort of goes these ideas sort of go together the manna given to israel in the wilderness he says was also said to have been hidden in the high heavens from the beginning of creation yes well where is that that's actually the the targum one of the you know targum is an aramaic translation so an aramaic translation of the old testament specifically exodus 16 4 through 15 targum pseudo jonathan actually says this about the manna manna given israel in the wilderness was also said to have been hidden in the high heavens from the beginning of creation and was ultimately to prosper israel at the end of days it's targum neophyte for exodus 816 now again these are late texts i thought i'd throw that in there because they're kind of interesting it tells you that there's certain ideas in the jewish community about manna but these texts are much later than john's era but nevertheless you know they're they're interesting next part of the verse 217b what is up with the white stone let me just read it again with the verse again he who has an ear let him hear what the spirit says to the churches to the one who conquers i will give some of the hidden manna and i will give him a white stone with a new name written on the stone that no one knows except the one who receives it like what's up with the white stone the the greek here is psephon lucane and own writes this psephos that's p-s-e long e-p-h-o-s psephos means pebble stone and therefore gem he cites some classical texts it can even be used in the more specific sense of a magical gem or a magical amulet most frequently however since say foy were used for voting casting votes psephos came to mean vote the adjective lucoi white is used of favorable elements beal what let beal has some of these same thoughts but again he adds a little bit of information here he says there may be no single background for the white stone it could be intentionally elusive and suggest diverse but compatible historical associations the presence of multiple backgrounds is a phenomenon we have already encountered and we'll meet again throughout the book that's an understatement i mean john draws stuff from everywhere back to be all he says a white stone was commonly associated with a vote of acquittal he cites four fourth maccabees 1526 acts 2610 for casting the votes or it was associated with a favorable vote conversely a black stone indicated guilt so this is the way let me just stop here so if you had a council or communal you know community or sanhedrin or whatever they're casting votes you'd get white or black stones white stones you know you're you're not guilty you're quoted black stone you're guilty so this is a cultural thing back to beal the white stone also enforces the idea of the manna as a heavenly reward since the old testament describes the heavenly manna as resembling get this white bdellium stones that's exodus 1631 and numbers 11 7 the septuagint of numbers 11 7 compares it to the appearance of rock crystal okay unquote the association of white beal continues with righteousness in direct connection with admission to a banquet is expressed in 19 8 and 9 where the fine linen bright and clean this is revelation 19 the fine linen bright and clean these are the people invited to the marriage supper represents the righteous acts of the saints which is directly followed by the reference to being invited to the marriage supper of the lamb elsewhere you know always in the book white is metaphorical for righteousness 13 times beal says whiteness probably also connotes the victory won by the person who conquers through persevering faith and righteousness revelation 62 revelation 1914 so to the one who overcomes i will give him the hidden manna and a white stone you know again it's it's a vote of approval you belong here you're you're clean you're righteous you know why because you've been you know you're believing loyalty to the messiah to jesus so again it has this this old testament precedent and this wider you know second temple jewish you know precedent of of voting and acquittal and these sorts of things like this so this is where again john is drawing from this but i for me personally i think it's really it is really interesting the exodus 1631 numbers 11 7 references about comparing manna to the appearance of rock crystal or white bdellium stones i think is really interesting here last component so you get you get a white stone quote with a new name written on the stone that no one knows except the one who receives it so here's the basic question this third element does the wording that john has here does it point to a divine name in other words the name of god or jesus being written on the stone or does it refer to the name of the conquering christian to whom the stone is given which is it now scholars have speculated that the idea might be drawn from a couple of old testament passages one is isaiah 62 2 where god is speaking of zion and we read this the nations shall see your righteousness and all the kings your glory and you shall be called by a new name and the mouth of the lord that the mouth of the lord will give so there's this new name for zion doesn't really answer the question you know is it god's name or is the christian's name another possible source is isaiah 65 15 and again god is speaking about the enemies of his people and we read this you shall leave your name to my chosen for a curse and the lord god will put you to death but his servants he will call by another name and still doesn't really answer the question but again it there's in this one there's this hint of identification this hint of you belong to god and you belong to the people who belong to me okay that that sort of thing in that in that isaiah 65 reference now owen picks up on this and he looks at the targum one of the targums for isaiah 65 15 this last part about being called by another name and he writes this in targum isaiah 65 15 b this notion of a different name is connected with another concept found in revelation that is the second death let me go back to the passage here in revelation 217 okay he who has an heirloom here the spirit says to the churches to the one who conquers i will give some of the hidden manna i will give him a white stone with a new name written on the stone that no one knows except the one who receives it and back up just a few verses Verse 11, it said, he who has an ear to hear, let him hear what the Spirit says. The church is the one who conquers, will not be hurt by the second death. The second death, of course, is the final judgment, your eternal separation from God. So Onn says, it interests Onn that you've got this being put to death in Isaiah 65, 15. The enemies of God are going to be put away ostensibly forever, but his servants will be called by their name. So Onn looks at this, and he says, you know, in the Targum of Isaiah 65, 15, both of these ideas are connected. We find them both in Revelation, in verse 11, 117. He says, that's kind of interesting. You know, we have both of these. And then he quotes Isaiah 65, 15b again. He quotes Revelation 2, 11, which we just did. He says, there's another obvious parallel, though, with Revelation 3, 12, where the exalted Christ says that the name of God, the name of the city of God, and quote, my own new name will be written on the conquering Christians. Okay, so let's just go to that verse, Revelation 3, 12. This is something we'd run into next episode, but we'll hit it here. The one who conquers, I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God. Never shall he go out of it, and I will write on him the name of my God, the name of the city of my God. The new Jerusalem, which comes down from my God out of heaven, and my own new name. So Owen's saying, you know, we probably ought to be thinking about this in Revelation 2, 17, with what this said in Revelation 3, 12. It might answer the question. He also references Revelation 19, 12, where the exalted Christ appears under the imagery of a conquering warrior who has, quote, a name. A name inscribed, which no one knows but he himself. Now, Owen relates all of this. He goes through all this, and he goes back to the stone idea and how white stones were used of magical amulets that bore the names and epithets of deities, and how divine names were used in healings and exorcisms in the early church. And so he lands, if you asked him, which is it? Is it the name of God or Jesus or the name of the Christian on the stone? He lands on the name being the name of God or Jesus for all these reasons. I would say it probably is just simpler, you know, just to go to Revelation 3, 12. And this is what Beale does. Beale writes this of the language. The new name written on the stone confirms further the idea of an end-time supper in which intimate fellowship occurs. Revelation 3, 12 reveals that the name in 2, 17 is a pregnant reference to the name of my God, the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from my God and mine, that is Christ's new name, which is written on the believer. So Beale says, point blank, Revelation 3, 12 is the answer to the question of Revelation 2, 17, the third part, 17c. Now, again, that's a fairly clean path, you know, just to appeal to Revelation 3, 12. It makes sense. So the answer to the question, the question would be, it's not the Christian's name that's written on the white stone. It's the name of God. It's the name of the new Jerusalem. It's the name of Jesus. You know, this is what's written on the stone because it's like your ticket in. Okay. It's your pass. You know, it is, it's the thing that grants you admittance. You know, these are symbolic, you know, references here too. So if you are identified with God, and the new Jerusalem, and of course Jesus, you're in, you're, it goes with the end time supper. This is your admission ticket to the meal, to the hidden man, all this stuff. So I, to me, I think that makes the best sense rather than the name of the Christian. And here's another reason why I like it. What do we really have here? We have name theology. We're going to see it's reversed by the way, later on when we get to the beast. How do we know? Those who are aligned with the beast, you know, his name, his number is upon them. Okay. The, this idea of the name indicating ownership, it's name theology, you know, all the way back to, you know, the old Testament, you know, and we've had Carmen Imes on the show, you know, bearing the name, you know, her, her, her book, you know, her popular version of her dissertation, you know, which was also published as a scholarly work, but bearing the name, bearing the name. This is what it is. Revelation 2, 17 is about bearing the Lord's name. And that indicates you're in the family. You are his. So to me, there's a very strong attachment to old Testament thinking here. And to illustrate it, I'm going to Aaron's blessing number six, 22 through 27, just, and Carmen, again, references this in her book, obviously, but it reads this as follows. The Lord spoke to Moses saying, speak to Aaron and to his sons. Saying thus, you shall bless the people of Israel. You shall say to them, the Lord bless you and keep you. The Lord make his face to shine upon you and be gracious to you. The Lord lift up his countenance upon you and give you peace. So this is verse 27. So shall they put my name upon the people of Israel and I will bless them. So this is a, this was a priestly gesture to identify. Identify the people as the people of God, identify them with the Lord. They are his, they, you know, call out among all the nations. They're the subset that the elect, you know, all these ideas intertwine. And, and, and to me, what we have here in Revelation 2, 17, Revelation 3, 12 is a new Testament application of the same idea. And again, we're going to get it's reversed later on to not have the name of Jesus on you, but the name of the beast. It couldn't be any clearer. Again, these are, these are, these are symbolic metaphorical ideas. The, it's not like when, when, when, when you die and you get to heaven, somebody walks up to you, an angel walks up to you with a stamp. Ka-chunk, there's the four consonants, you know, on your forehead, you know, that isn't the idea. The idea is, is ownership. The Lord knows those who are his, who are aligned with him. They bear his name. They represent him. They are his imagers. And it's the same thing on the other side. To refuse, to reject the gospel, according to the book of Revelation, is to align yourself, to be an imager of the beast, you know, the dragon, Satan, you know, all this stuff, okay, that goes with the other side. So it goes back to the priestly blessing. It goes back to the name. Think of unseen realm here. I spent three chapters here, you know, talking about the name theology. The name is another way to refer to God himself. You know, the name of the Lord appears, you know. But visually, in certain contexts, it's God embodied in human form. All these ideas, again, wind up funneling into Jesus. And here we get them applied to believers. Now, again, if you go to, you know, keep going in chapter two, you know, to be honest with you, I cover all of this stuff in unseen realm. But if we continue on in Revelation two, here's what we read. Okay, verse 18. Deuteronomy 29 is the letter to the church at Thyatira, okay? So we have, it starts off in verse 18. To the angel of the church at Thyatira, right? The words of the Son of God, who has his eyes like a flame of fire, whose feet are like burnished bronze. That harkens back to chapter one, description of the Son of Man, ancient of days, you know, merged into one. You know, I know your works, your love and your faith and service and patient endurance. Then he says, I have this against you, that you tolerate that woman Jezebel. So just as the church of Ephesus was resisting the idolatry and the immorality. Here, Thyatira, they're giving in. You know, he says, I have this against you. You know, you tolerate that woman Jezebel. Again, using her as a symbol of pagan religion that involves sexual immorality. That's verse 20. Eating food, sacrificed idols, verse 20. Why? Because, you know, like Paul discussed in 1 Corinthians 10, we talked about this last week. This was to have fellowship, to sit at whose table? The table of demons, the table of the fallen gods. You know, you're on the other side. You're on the other side when you do this. I gave her time to repent, but she refuses to repent of her sexual immorality. Again, so, again, the pagans have been warned here, so on and so forth. Again, there's a reference here to just, again, general people who follow other gods. You know, and so there's a judgment laid out. I'm going to strike your children dead. The churches will know that I am he who searches mind and heart. So the church is sort of getting caught up in this judgment, in this punishment. To the rest of you in Thyatira who do not hold this teaching, who have not learned what some call the deep things of Satan, to you I say I do not lay on you any other burden. Only hold fast what you have until I come. So some of you people in Thyatira are holding the line. And I know it and I see it. Just keep up with that. The one who conquers and who keeps my works until the end, to him, I will give authority over the nations and he will rule He who has an ear to hear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. And that's how chapter 2 closes. Now, both of those things, verse 26, I will give him the one who overcomes authority over the nations. Again, quoting a Messianic psalm about believers. Messianic psalm aimed at Jesus, you know, the authority over the nations. But it's actually quoted here of believers. And then the morning star, sharing the morning star, the Messiah. Again, the morning star is a symbol of Messianic rulership. But that gets shared with believers, those who overcome. I've discussed both of those at length in Unseen Realm. So I'm not going to repeat that content here. Most of you have read Unseen Realm. If you have not, well, you need to read Unseen Realm, you know, to follow a lot of what we're doing here. But again, I'm not going to just rehearse that content. But what you have here is you have, at the end of days, those who overcome, those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb, those who are in, those who are united to Christ, their believing loyalty has held firm. Those are the people who will inherit the rule of the nations. Well, who rules the nations now? Deuteronomy 32 worldview. It's the fallen gods who Paul calls demons in 1 Corinthians 10. They don't have fellowship with them by participating in feasts and, of course, immorality. With those guys. Okay, you've got to pick sides. You've got to pick sides. You do not want to be in fellowship with the other side. Because ultimately, they will be displaced and replaced. And who are they replaced by? Human believers who inherit the rule of the nations. And the nations are brought back into the family of God. Again, this is the Deuteronomy 32 worldview on the New Testament side. For those, you know, again, who have read Unseen Realm, followed this podcast and my content, this is. This is Biblical Theology 101. And that's a good thing. Okay, that's a good thing. Because these are the kinds of things that tie both testaments together. So if this is new to you, again, read Unseen Realm, get up to speed. But these are important metaphors that show how the Deuteronomy 32 worldview works out. You know, I might as well throw in 1 Corinthians 6.3. If this is new to you, you know, I challenge you. Read 1 Corinthians 6.3. Don't you know that you're going to judge angels? Or rule over angels, however you want to translate that? The commentators have no idea what to do with that. This audience knows exactly what to do with that. It goes into this motif of the gods who were put over the nations in judgment at Babel. Deuteronomy 32.8. Reading that with the Septuagint and with the Dead Sea Scrolls. When the Most High divided the nations, he divided them up according to the number of the sons of God. But Israel is Yahweh's portion. Jacob is his allotted inheritance. It's Deuteronomy 32.8 and 9. You know exactly what to do with that. The nations were judged at Babel, put under other gods. The Elohim, members of the heavenly host, they were placeholders, but they become corrupt according to Psalm 82. They rule the nations terribly. They sow chaos among the nations. God sentences them in Psalm 82 at a meeting of him and his council that you're going to die like men. You're going to die like men. I'm going to do away with you. And we, you know, other passages, Isaiah 34, Isaiah 27, it talks about the judgment of the heavenly host and so on. This is what it is. This is what it is. So this is why Paul, again, he goes to these nations. He knows exactly what he's dealing with. All the nations other than Israel are under dominion of hostile powers of darkness. They're not mere demons. Demons are low level on the pecking order. These guys are geopolitical entities, okay? This is where Daniel gets his theology. Daniel 10, Prince of Persia, Prince of Greece. Oh, that's cool. Supernatural beings over nations. Have you ever asked where Daniel gets his theology? He gets it from Deuteronomy 32, 8, 9. And the outcome of all that at the Eschaton is that all of those dudes are judged, done away with, destroyed, finally. The end of Psalm 82, the psalmist gets what he asks for. Oh God, rise up and take back the nations. That's accomplished in final form. You know, it's accomplished in already but not yet form. You know, in the epistles, you know, we spent a lot of time on this stuff, but it's accomplished in final form. And you, as a believer, again, to those members of the church, as John was writing to you, to those of you who overcome, who don't fall into unbelief, who don't go over to the other side, who remain steadfast in your believing loyalty to the gospel, you're going to inherit those nations. It's going to be you. Not them. So this is how Revelation 2 wraps up. And so for next time, we are going to wander into Revelation 3. We actually did a little of that today. But again, we can't help it because some of these themes repeat. But again, my goal is, you know, to get substantially into Revelation 3. We might be able to get through the whole thing because there is some repetition. But this is what we're trying to do. When John is writing this stuff, what are the antecedents in the Old Testament? What is he doing theologically? How is he tying data points together to, again, to teach believers something, to warn them, and also to remind them, you know, this world is not your home. This is what awaits you. Remain faithful. Because if you don't, you're going to be destroyed with, you know, with them, with the other side. You know, it's for all the marvels, you know. This is why you remain steadfast. You remain loyal to the gospel. You don't switch belief. You know, your belief system, your belief commitment to anything else, especially, you know, idolatry, worship of other gods. It is the foundational, fundamental thing that you don't do. You know, you couldn't get any more clear in the Old Testament. Idolatry is the thing that separates you from God. And resistance to it, your loyalty to the true God, is the thing that makes you part of his family. It's point blank. It's fundamental. It's obvious when you think about it. And this is where John is going. He wants, you know, he wants him to come out on the right side.
Speaker 2All right, Mike. If anything, I'm learning how to pronounce some of these words like Thyatira. Thyatira. Which one is it?
Speaker 3I prefer Thyatira. I mean, you'll hear it pronounced both ways. But, you know, it's not like it matters a whole lot.
Speaker 2Still, I'd rather hear a professional pronounce it than me spitballing it. We should go out and hire a professional. All right. And also, it's time to read Unseen Realm again, Mike. I think everybody needs to start the year every year and just reread it to get your bearings.
Speaker 3Yeah, well, this is why, you know, on the front page of the podcast, you know. Are you new? Start here. Right up at the top, you get those couple of videos, you know, and that gives it to you in a nutshell. So, that's good. But, you're right. It's not a substitute for the book, but it at least gets your feet wet.
Speaker 2Well, with that, we'll be looking forward to Chapter 3 next week. And I want to thank everybody for listening to the Naked Bible Podcast.
Speaker 4God bless. Thanks for listening to the Naked Bible Podcast. To support this podcast, visit www.nakedbibleblog.com. To learn more about Dr. Heiser's other websites and blogs, go to www.drmsh.com. And I'll see you next week.
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