MYSTERIOUS DEATH OF: Joseph “Jo-Jo” King III

Hi, crime junkies. I'm your host Ashley Flowers and I'm Brett and the story I have for you today I'm an ornue. It's gonna be hard to hear but when people don't listen to the tough stuff That is what lets a system that doesn't protect kids perpetuate So I beg you to hear today's story about a first grader found unresponsive in his own home in Grand Prairie, Texas The explanation his stepfather gives is that he got trapped inside a toy chest and just couldn't get out couldn't breathe But when that theory is put to the test it doesn't add up yet No one has been held responsible for this young boy's death So his father is making sure that no one forgets his son's name This is the story of Joseph Jojo King the third [Music] Joseph King Jr's world collapsed a few weeks before the rest of us were rocked by lockdowns and a global pandemic It was February 23rd 2020 when his phone rang just before midnight No good call comes at that hour so he was bracing himself when he answered But there was nothing that could have prepared him for what was said His six-year-old son Joseph King the third his Jojo was unconscious and at the hospital Now there wasn't much more information for him at that time This is all pretty recent but he dad lives in Georgia and Jojo lives with his mom and stepfather in Texas So he needs to get on the first flight out to be with his son Joseph is in knots as he makes the trip and he still doesn't know much I mean he had just facetime with his son the day before he was perfectly healthy and happy pumped about starting baseball Like how could this possibly be happening? How could he be in the hospital now? Now when he finally arrives at Children's Medical Center in Dallas that next morning it is even worse than he imagined Jojo is not just unconscious he is on life support Doctors say that he suffered a brain injury from lack of oxygen likely from being stuck in a toy chest where his stepdad found him Like a toy box thing like he climbed in and accidentally got stuck That is what his stepdad is saying Brandon Hale, the stepdad says that he was home with Jojo when it happened Jojo's mom Jessica basically left for a baby shower at around 2.30 pm And then at some point that afternoon Brandon took this short nap but he was woken up Not too long after just before 5 o'clock because he got a text from his wife Reminding him to give Jojo his medication So he said he searched the townhouse and he couldn't find Jojo anywhere So he even text Jessica back like five minutes later asking if Jojo was with her Which doesn't make sense because she's not going to text you about giving him medicine if she has How I don't know what he was thinking but no he is obviously not with mom So then Brandon went downstairs to check the front door Make sure that Jojo didn't leave while he was sleeping But he saw that it was still locked So he goes back upstairs and for some unknown reason He decided to check in the toy chest in Jojo's bedroom And there he was not breathing Now Jojo's dad Joseph is standing there beside his son's hospital bed Listening to Brandon's explanation And to him something just doesn't sound right And he's not just thinking that as a dad He's thinking that as a detective Because Joseph just so happens to be a homicide detective in Atlanta And hearing that his son was home alone with Brandon when something went down Immediately sets off alarm bells because he knows something you don't Let me rewind almost a year back to March of 2019 One day Jojo showed up to school and he couldn't sit down Teachers noticed that he had a bit of a limp as well so they like pull him aside And what becomes visible up close is that there are multiple loop shaped bruises across the backs of both of his thighs When they ask him about it Jojo tells them that his dad meaning his stepfather Brandon beat him with a belt So police came they responded and the Texas Department of Family Protective Services which is DFPS They opened an investigation Brandon admits that he used a belt And it sounds like he and Jessica both describe using some forms of corporal punishments as discipline But DFPS ends up ruling reason to believe for physical abuse That's officially documented then Oh yeah, reason to believe means that DFPS determined abuse did occur And so Brandon gets indicted for injury to a child But here is where it gets complicated Joseph, Jojo's biological father living in Georgia Is it notify about any of this right away Even though he had been active in his son's life he saw him over summers and during holidays Talked to him nearly every day But as soon as he does find out he told our team that he started trying to get custody I mean he goes right to DFPS the very people who say that they have reason to believe that this young boy is being abused in his home But he says that they told him they don't remove children in situations like this In situations like this With abuse that's what they said So he tried going through family court He tried going to detectives at Grand Prairie PD But they point him right back to DFPS So as kind of a last resort a way to protect his son from far away He applied for a protective order on behalf of Jojo But according to him a judge wouldn't sign it Because Jojo lived in the same home as the person that he was asking for him to be protected from AKA Brandon domestic abuse happens in the home all the time like that's what domestic means I know It doesn't even exist Even logical I know So basically if Joseph wanted to get Jojo out of that home The really only option that they left him with is to kidnap Jojo And they'd have to go on the run because he'd be a fugitive as the non-custodial parent Which is not much of an option No And Britt This is the part that stays with him Joseph said that he remembers literally asking officials Does my son have to die for someone to help us That question now echoes in the ICU too Because the man who admitted to striking his son with a belt Is the same man who was home alone with him when he stopped breathing And he's able to stand there In that hospital on that day in February 2020 Because even though DFPS said that they had reason to believe Brandon abused Jojo in 2019 They closed the case Documenting that the risk level was low He got four years deferred adjudication probation Translation No formal conviction as long as he complies with his probation That is Zero jail time So the fact that Brandon was home alone with Jojo Back living in the house with him at the time that this happened Apparently all of that is by the books as far as the court and DFPS were concerned Doctors explained that Jojo's brain had suffered severe swelling from prolonged lack of oxygen They tell Joseph the next 48 to 72 hours are going to determine everything for Jojo But all he can do now is wait But as he waits he can't help replaying his question Does my son have to die for someone to help us And he's also replaying the story he heard from Brandon And the more times it loops in his brain And the more information he starts collecting from doctors and from police The less Brandon's story makes sense to Joseph the dad And Joseph the detective From the very start the timeline Brandon gave seems shaky to Joseph Initially the story that Brandon told made it seem like he just took this quick little cat nap like 30 minutes or so But that doesn't make sense to Joseph The doctor told him Jojo was like that because of a prolonged lack of oxygen Now conveniently Brandon's story morphs over time That 30 minute nap changes to I don't know how long it was To eventually saying that he was sleeping nearly the entire afternoon while he was supposed to be supervising Jojo And then there is this whole weird thing with CPR At first Brandon's story was that he pulled Jojo from the chest Performed CPR and called 911 But Joseph finds out that when Brandon called 911 at 4.58 pm The dispatcher had to tell him to put Jojo on the floor and begin compressions But when she is spoken to she says from what she could tell like over the phone or whatever It didn't seem like he was actually doing it And when EMS arrived by 5.11 They docked documented that he is not doing CPR compressions. First responders find JoJo not breathing without a pulse while Brandon is just screaming "God no" and crying, rocking, hitting the wall. Which could just be panic though. Sure, but how about this? As far as we know, nowhere in Brandon's story does he offer up an explanation for why JoJo is wet? And I'm not just talking like sweaty from being stuck inside a constricted space for a long time. Wet from his nose all the way down to his hips. And police also document O'Wet towel in the bathroom. And the bed is wet. I mean, how wet are we talking here? I don't know exactly because as of this recording we haven't gotten any photos or body cam footage from the Grand Prairie Police Department in response to our FOIA, but I will say at least some of the wetness, at least some of the wetness on JoJo himself is urine. Because responding officers say that he smells of urine, which makes sense to me. I mean, especially for a little kid trapped in anyway or dying, like your body is panicking or as you like lose consciousness you sometimes can lose control of bodily functions. But the reports don't fully explain why that other stuff would be wet. In Brandon's version of events, none of this makes sense anyway because even if JoJo lost control of his bladder and all of the wetness on him was urine, that would probably happen when he's in the chest, right? Yeah. Like there's nothing mentioned in Brandon's statement like, oh JoJo had just taken a bath earlier. It wasn't like, oh I knocked over water while trying to save him, it was just he was in the toy chest, like full stop. And it doesn't even appear like he tries to address the wetness stuff. So putting the wetness aside for a sec, St. Brandon really is napping and JoJo is getting himself and other things wet for like whatever reason I've had a first grader, I have a second grader, there are wildness that happens. The thing I'm having a hard time understanding is that if he accidentally goes in the toy chest, why can't he get himself out? Like he's six? Like he's not like a baby or even a little toddler. So it does seem with this specific toy chest that if it shuts, that it would automatically lock. So like he wouldn't have been able to open it back up on his own from the inside. You can only do that from the outside. But to your point, like I'm still trying to figure out why he couldn't have gotten help even if that, I mean we know that's like that's how it worked, but even if that's what happened. Because Jo's, I mean he's like this big athletic kid. And we think that he would at least be able to bang, yell, scream, make some noise. And this isn't a huge townhome or anything. I mean like I, I know Brandon's sleeping. I don't know how hard a sleeper he is. And he's you know out for maybe some or all of the afternoon. But another thought that crossed Joseph's mind is that maybe JoJo had been incapacitated in some way. Now the suggestion that Joseph said, his ex Jessica kind of threw out there, was that maybe JoJo had jumped from the bed, hit the chest, the top like slam shut and then he got knocked out or something, somehow. It already feels kind of improbable. Yeah, and it doesn't line up with his known injuries. According to Joseph's doctor, they tell him there doesn't seem to be any significant head injuries that would explain JoJo's like falling unconscious. And there was no obstruction blocking his airway either as if he had choked on a small toy or something while he was in there that like kept him from crying out for help. So I don't know what's worse, thinking of him like trapped in there unconscious or trapped in there like crying to get out and no one's helping him. The same question echoes, right? Does my son have to die for someone to help us? This is not really a question that you want to get an answer to while your son is on life support. The days pass, the swelling in JoJo's brain doesn't go down and he never regains consciousness. On February 27, 2020, doctors pronounce JoJo dead. Joseph made the decision to donate his son's organs when he died because it is the only thing he can do that makes him feel like some ounce of good could come out of something so horrific. And then after that, he went to work for his son. As the autopsy that was performed came back as a manner of death undetermined. With the cause of death listed as global hypoxic encephalopathy and they say it was due to smothering with absence of oxygen following prolonged entrapment in a sealed toy chest. That sounds like tragic accident territory maybe. In the wrong hands, I think it would be. And Joseph isn't gonna just walk away because of an undetermined ruling. He claims that he had to push for Grand Prairie PD to have a different detective put fresh eyes on his son's case. And thank God he did and thank God they listened. Because as part of this fresh look, they actually decide to test the Emmy's ruling. That whole part about lack of oxygen because he was in a sealed toy chest. Was it even sealed? Wait, I thought they already checked that and they know it locks if it shuts automatically. They know that it automatically locks if it shuts. But by the time of JoJo's autopsy, it doesn't seem like anyone had actually tested whether or not air could flow through when it was shut. So it locked versus airtight. And guess what? They test this thing by putting a light inside. And light shines through the cracks. Which means if light can get through the cracks, that means air has got to be able to pass through too precisely. So it was not sealed like the autopsy said. Then while investigators are at it, they also tried to recreate the scene. They use a mannequin similar in size to JoJo. And this thing barely fits inside the chest at all because the chest wasn't empty when Brandon says he went in there. There were toys inside of it. Specifically, there was this large Batman doll that took up a significant amount of space. So with all of this new info, the medical examiner actually goes back to amend the report. In non-medical jargon, it now says that JoJo died from lack of oxygen. They just can't say how undetermined, still undetermined. But there is one more addition to this report that makes Joseph stop cold in his tracks and just have this like almost like I can knew it moment, right? Like this aha moment. And here, but I'm actually just going to have you read it because you'll know exactly what he was feeling. Responding officers reported the decedent was wet when they arrived on the scene. And there was concern for possible homicidal drowning. Now it's not a ruling, just a concern for homicidal drowning. But it's concern enough for investigators to reassess everything, to go back to the drawing board and to try and figure out if JoJo didn't die from being trapped in a toy chest, then what really killed him? Joseph couldn't be side by side with investigators as they work to find the answers. They had to keep him at an arm's length to protect their investigation. So he would have to wait until 2023 to hear any other possible theory about what could have happened to his son. Now this time, Joseph is back in Texas, not at a hospital, but in a courthouse in Terrent County. That is where Brandon is going before a judge. And he's not going before a judge for murder charges. This isn't a trial. This is a hearing to determine whether he violated his probation. He was still on probation for the 2019 belt incident when JoJo died in 2020. So basically prosecutors believe that when this happened in February of 2020 that that violated the probation from that like that incident. But this is 2023. It took them three years to get to court on this. I don't know why it took so long. Detectives and the DA's office didn't talk to us for this episode. But remember, I mean, it did take a different detective digging into this case to even get some of these answers. So I assumed that took some time to get sorted. Then Joseph thinks maybe because the manner of death was undetermined, I don't know, like at some point, like they probably just figured that a probation violation would be much easier to get this guy on. Like, okay, like let's all try to put him away for some time for something. Yeah. But the easy thing is not always the right thing. And being in law enforcement himself, Joseph says that he is certainly surprised that they didn't go for more by the time 2023 rolls around. Because once he hears what it is that they presented under oath, he is even more sure that his son did not die in the way that Brandon claimed. Like this hearing, the state doesn't have to prove anything beyond a reasonable doubt. They just have to convince the judge that Brandon committed a new offense while on probation. That's it. And to do that, they walk through the evidence again. Some of the same things that Joseph heard before, information regarding questionable timeline. The possibility of the death of the victim is a very serious issue. that life-saving measures weren't attempted, despite instructions from 9-1-1 to do so. And Brandon's own statement that he did. Now Brandon ends up testifying that he did give breaths and compressions with one hand. But then later he reportedly stated that he felt JoJo was already dead and didn't really see the point. So again, statements don't quite line up. But then comes the new stuff. And it all mainly focuses on the weirdest and most glaringly strange part of this case. The fact that JoJo and some parts of this scene were wet. Now the initial responding deputy takes the stand and we finally get details about what he witnessed. In the bathroom he saw that the toys in the bathtub were wet. And there is a towel at the base of the toilet that is wet too. Now based on the floor plan of this place, it looks like the toilet is right up next to the tub. And while there is no way to tell how the things in the bath got wet, what he does notice is that the toilet bowl itself, like the water in it appears like it's half full. As if an object had been placed into it. That's the language that he uses. An object like the toys? I don't know if they were ever in the toilet. But I think it would have taken something larger to displace half the water in the toilet. And I don't think it takes Sherlock to see what he's trying to suggest here based on how he describes JoJo. Now remember, he says that JoJo is wet from the nose down to his hips. The wetness isn't around his whole body. Apparently it is just this strip down the front of him. Is he saying that JoJo was somehow like dunked in the toilet? No. He is just saying what he saw. The toilet water is displaced and he is wet down the front of him. Now, Brandon's wife, JoJo's mom, Jessica, testifies that if the towel and the tub toys were like wet, it might have been from a bath the night before. But Joseph usually bathed between 6 and 8 p.m. This was nearly 24 hours later. Okay, we haven't really talked about Jessica that much. Where does she stand in all of this? Like is she siding with Brandon? Well, in a DFPS document that we have, it states that Jessica and Brandon got an attorney and refused to cooperate with DFPS or law enforcement following JoJo's death. Or at least like at the time that this document was prepared. And honestly from what we can tell, yeah, she seems to still be with Brandon and supporting him. Her belief appears to be that this was all a very terrible tragic accident. And Jessica faces no charges related to her son or his death. Now, we tried to reach out to her for this episode, but she declined to participate. And it actually made it clear that she didn't want this story to be told at all. Interesting. So, say the bath and the toys and the towel were all still wet from the night before when he took his bath and not something that happened in the bathroom on the 23rd. Is it possible that the wet stripped down the front of his body was from JoJo peeing himself? Like, if he was kind of upside down in the chest or something, it might have like run up his body while he was upside down. So, I see what you're saying, but I can actually tell you for sure that's not what happened. I mean, hey, then we would be going back to saying that the toy chest like is sealed and suffocated in which we now know that's not irritable. But be at the hearing, we get this strange detail that comes out. There was no documented moisture or smell of urine inside the actual toy chest. And when they later tested the Batman stuff toy that was in there, it did not show residual traces of urine either. Actually, was he ever in the toy chest at all? This is the question, Britt. I don't see any proof of that. I mean, we have urine present. It sounds like we also have some water present, but not in the toy chest. None of this is in the chest, which is the crux of Brandon's whole story. Yeah. And let me tell you one more thing. That for me, like this thing is what really painted a picture. When the responding deputy testified on the witness stand about the bed, he said that when he pulled the covers back, he found that it was wet in the middle, about where JoJo's bottom would have been, if he was laying on the bed. Just that area. Yes, from what I can tell, that's what he's saying. Now, the thing I don't know for sure is if that wetness was water or urine. And if that wetness happened before or after the toilet bowl losing water, right? Like, did JoJo have an accident? And then whatever happened after that was prompted by that accident. Or did something happen in the bathroom and then he was put or went to bed? I thought the front of him is wet as if his face were pushed into the bowl of water. And then the water ran down the front of him when he was pulled out. The thing I don't get though is if he had drowned, wouldn't that be in the Emmy's report? Like, that's pretty like cut and dry. I know there was like a quote, quote, quote, concern for a homicidal drowning, but drowning is cut and dry. Like, was there water in his lungs or was there not? It's cut and dry when someone immediately dies from drowning. This one is complicated because of the fact that JoJo didn't die right away. Right? He was in the hospital for days. During this hearing, the medical examiner testifies that there was water present in Joseph's airways. But that doesn't necessarily mean drowning because Joseph had been on a ventilator for several days before he died. And the Emmy testified that fluid in the airways can be consistent with prolonged ventilator use. So, according to this Emmy, there is just no way to narrow down the list by testing for drowning in cases like this. Which means the autopsy can say asphyxia, meaning he couldn't get oxygen. It can say that there is a concern for something. But it can't say how the oxygen deprivation happened. Now, the states argument is that if the toy chest theory doesn't work and drowning can't be ruled out, and there is no trauma, then the only explanation left is that someone caused the asphyxiation and the only someone in that house was Brandon. But the defense argues that it was an accident inside the toy chest. How are we still talking about this toy chest? Like, it feels. I guess relevant at this point. I guess because the ruling is undetermined. And maybe, maybe because this idea about a kid dying by being locked in a toy chest didn't just come out of thin air for this case. I mean, I did a quick Google search and there are stories of children, mostly younger than JoJo getting stuck in toy chest. And I think it's a lot of these old chests that are often passed down like family heirlooms. And they obviously don't pass modern safety checks. I have a chest like this in my room that has blankets and it shuts it locks. If you were inside, you couldn't get out. I can see it, but that's not what JoJo is in. Well, that's what I'm saying. It's important to note that at this hearing, they established that the Cedar chest in JoJo's room was not even originally designed as a toy chest. It's kind of like what you're saying you have. It was like this vintage lane-seater hope-chesting manufactured decades ago, like 1956. And to be fair, like over the years, certain lane-seater chests with like automatically locking lids had been subject to recalls. Children had gotten trapped inside them. Sadly, some had even suffocated. So, historically, this is not unheard of. And at first glance, sure, like if similar chests had trapped children before, it makes the story feel plausible. But there is the nuance that comes out in court. Testimony clarified that this specific chest, the one that they're saying JoJo might have gotten trapped in, it was not confirmed to be part of any recall. So it's not like investigators found a recall sticker or a defect notice, like tied to this exact chest. And remember, even if JoJo had been locked inside the chest, I was just going to have to bring up, like the chest is not air tight. It's not air tight, like, wait, air passes through. So exactly, it is irrelevant to me if other kids died in similar chests. A kid could not die in this one chest. There was no gasket or seal that would make it air tight. And that is where the state lands. They're not arguing that toy chest accidents have never happened. Right. They're arguing that this specific one does not explain the scene that they're presented with, because if the chest is an air tight, if the mannequin barely fits in it, if there is moisture elsewhere and not in the chest, then the explanation changes. After days of testimony, after the timelines dissected, the CPR thing, the wetness, the toy chest testing, and amended autopsy are all laid out in that courtroom. It's time for the judge to rule. And remember, this is not a murder trial. I was just like having to pull myself back to be like, "What is even the verdict here? Because it's just a probation here." This is the judge, yeah, isn't being asked to determine exactly how JoJo died. He is being asked one thing. Did Brandon Hale violate the terms of his probation from the 2019 injury to a child case by committing a new offense in February of 2020? That's it. And if he did, then his probation is revoked. In December of 2023, the judge makes his decision. And he finds that Brandon did violate the terms of his probation. His deferred adjudication from the 2019 belt incident is revoked. And he's formally found guilty in that original injury to a child case. So he gets sentenced to 10 years in prison, not for murder, but for the 2019 abuse. And that is the only conviction connected to Joe Joe's case. He had to die for someone to help him. And then they didn't even hold anyone accountable for his actual death. Listen, our team reached out to both Brandon in prison and his attorney for comment. But as of this recording, we have not gotten a response. And we also contacted the Tarant County District Attorney's Office for clarity about whether additional charges would ever be pursued. They did not give us an answer. But we had our legal team look into this. And they confirmed that the DA could bring new charges against Brandon Hale. Any time they see fit, it wouldn't even necessarily require new evidence. DFS did provide us with public records, but they didn't answer our specific questions about why Joe Joe's original case went the way it did. I want to know why he was allowed back in that home. How did a six-year-old boy die from lack of oxygen inside his own home while he was alone with the man who admitted to beating him with a belt? And how did this happen less than a year after the system had already substantiated abuse? There's been a resounding word throughout this entire episode. Undetermined. Undetermined cause, undetermined man, or undetermined answers. There is one thing that was never undetermined. Joe Joe mattered. He mattered to his dad, his real life superhero, who he wanted to be like when he grew up. And he mattered to the little girl who got to live more life and spend precious final moments with her family because of his organization. And he mattered to the people who saw him every day at school, to the janitor who came to visit him while he was in the hospital because he said that Joe Joe never just walked by him like the other kids. He always stopped and gave him a hug. He made him feel special. That's who Joe Joe was. For dad, Joseph, this was never just about a probation violation. It was about protection. Now, instead of letting his grief swallow him into silence, it propels him forward. He tells Joe Joe's story publicly any chance he can get not because it's easy, but because it's necessary. He speaks to other law enforcement officers about what went wrong, about what might have been done differently, how to keep this from happening to another child, another family. He fights for accountability because he knows what it feels like to beg for help. And to not be heard. I got on FaceTime with my family and let all my family say goodbye to him in the hospital room. And then when I hung up, I walked over to him, and I leaned over and I whispered in the zear, I said, don't worry. Daddy got you. He going to find out what happened. If you're hearing Joe Joe's story, and you are feeling strongly that you need to do something, you can call the Tarant County Texas District Attorney's office at 817-884-1400. Tell them that you want them to take another look at this case. Tell them that you want justice for Joseph Jojo King III. You can find all the source material for this episode on our website, crimejunkie.com. And you can follow us on Instagram at CrimeJunkiePodcast. We'll be back next week with a brand new episode. And stick around because we've got the good segment coming. OK, Jemper last month's good segment, the Nina FF. Yes. So after that, I saw this one I had to do it. It's like the audio check effect, I think. I think you're really going to like this one. Hi, Ashley and Brett. I'm writing today in regards to an episode I was just listening to, and it's ties to an organization I work with who is doing some amazing work in Wisconsin. I'm hoping to raise more awareness about what we do in Wisconsin, as well as what similar organizations do nationwide to improve public safety, changing the approach to working with people with substance use disorders and the criminal justice system, and changing public perception of what we are and what we do. I was just listening to the January 24th, 2022 episode of Crime Junkie titled Survived, Crystal Kaiser and Centoya Brown. Not only does the case of Crystal Kaiser happen in the state of Wisconsin where I'm from, you also discussed why treatment courts couldn't be used as an alternative for Centoya Brown in her case. For the last seven years, I have worked as a case manager for an O-W-I-D-U-I treatment court in Wisconsin. It have been involved with the Wisconsin Association of Treatment Court Professionals, Board of Directors, for the last four years. I've been able to see firsthand the amazing work that goes into establishing, maintaining, and working treatment courts, as well as the incredible work that participants put into these programs and changing their lives. Those that participate in Wisconsin treatment courts have reduced overdoses by 83%, and four out of five remain out of the justice system post-graduation. We have a variety of treatment courts from O-W-I to drug courts, veteran courts, tribal healing to wellness courts, family reunification courts, hybrid courts, and mental health courts. We are currently celebrating 30 years since the first treatment court was established in Dame County, and we have grown to over 100 courts in 65 of 72 counties. The fact that you even brought up treatment courts in your podcast truly excited me from the minute I heard the words. Treatment courts are changing lives and changing communities. And while some people have the perception that these courts are a get out of prison free card, they are far from it. These programs are intensive and include high level monitoring, including probation, case management, electronic monitoring, drug testing, court monitoring, intensive outpatient treatment support meetings. By far, treatment court is the harder choice. Prison is the easier choice. However, treatment court is the more rewarding one if the participant truly commits the process. Treatment court teams are collaborative systems of team members, including judges, prosecutors, defense counsel, law enforcement, treatment providers, probation, case managers, and coordinators, and sometimes peer support and prior program graduates. These are sometimes people who are typically across the table from each other who are now working together to walk alongside participants in the life of recovery. Recently, we have initiated a graduate scholarship fund in 2025, which provides $500 scholarships to graduates from the Wisconsin Treatment Courts, who are looking to pursue higher education or specialized training. Audio Chuck and Crime Junkie has been a repeated donor to our silent auction that directly funds the scholarship fund. An audio chuck recently made a donation to our general fund, courtesy of Audio Chucks Philanthropy Director. This support has been incredibly meaningful to W-A-T-C-P and myself truly as a big fan of Crime Junkie and Full Body Jails. Wisconsin isn't only state who is looking at the justice system and substance use differently. There are quite a few states within the US who have treatment and/or problem-solving courts. All rise, at allrice.org, is the national organization and hub for treatment courts across the nation and the biggest resource for best practices, standards, training, and news on treatment courts. I would love to appeal to you to increase the conversation on treatment courts and using treatment courts as an alternative to incarceration for those with substance use disorders and are involved in the criminal justice system. The more people know and the more people understand, the more support we can get for what we're doing. You have such a huge platform and a huge following, and I appreciate the level of investigation you do into any topic you discuss. With much gratitude and appreciation for what you ladies do, Amanda Parlo, President Board of Directors for the Wisconsin Association Treatment Court Professionals. - Oh, a little like education. There you go. And I love hearing from people who are in the trenches of these things that we talk about, hearing how much just talking about these systems I didn't know much about treatment courts. I didn't even think about it. - In recovery. - Yeah. - And just learning more about the system that she's working in and how effective it is. I mean, 83% reduction in overdose is an incredible number. And I just love this. - I also love that it comes from an episode we did years ago. I mean, I'm actually not our support. We've been working with the first-- - Full disclosure. - So long. - An episode that we did before I was in recovery. - Oh, they're true. Yeah. And so, like, hearing this now that something that like, while I was still struggling, this was effective and happening and changing lives before I even needed my life needed to change. It's really really powerful. - Holy crime junkies learned a little something. - Crime junkie is an audio check production. I think Chuck would approve. (crowing)