Mullinix, Part 2: Mentoring Champions, Butler, K-State, Meat Animal Eval

had Brady Spencer Scott and Taylor Frank all on my last team at Butler and all went on and coached at a collegiate level. A couple of them still coaching today. I think that people like a Parker Henley, you know, Taylor Graham, Maverick Squires, Morgan Mides and Heimer just a year before that. Just Chandler Aiken, somebody that you I'm sure have dealt with and worked with in your part of the country. You know, just names that immediately don't pop to my head that have been, you know, not just not just important to our success at Butler, but went on, you know, and have done such amazing things, you know, in academia, in careers, in the livestock industry. Gosh, that's a whoshoo of judging. You know, that remade your livestock show in the country. You know, somebody like a Morgan Mides and Heimer, who was as successful in collegiate livestock regimes any person has ever been, you know, was on a national champion team at Oklahoma State. It was a high individual for us at Butler at Louisville as well on a champion team at Louisville, both junior and senior college and is widely considered one of. It's not the greatest livestock photographer in the country. Whose first contest in her life was the Cat Tail Cluster. [Music] Picking up rock where we left off from part one, let's get right to it. Chris Monix. Ah, and Blake Flanders had coached here at Butler or there at Butler for, you know, a fair number of years and was stepping away and moving into administration role. And, you know, here was this four-year kid that didn't have, you know, junior college background, all of a sudden with an opportunity to move into that role. And I jumped at that opportunity and then, and I look back now, Jason. So, so, bewildered as to again, how do I get so lucky to fall into these places at certain times in my life, but, you know, again, 22 years old and given the reins to take on the program at Butler, the way that I saw fit. And we had spectacular leadership and I came on board right at the same time as a new president there, Dr. Jackie Vieti. And I, I credit her a lot to the, the personality of Butler and the way that that place developed in my time there. And she was such a spectacular leader. And she held you accountable, but she was not a micromanager. She, she believed in you and she trickled down to administration's administrative level. If they believed in you and they hired you to do a job, they let you go do it the way you saw fit. And I was young and inexperienced, but they gave me those reins and and and 16 years later, you know, I'll gosh the things we had the good fortune to do in that time at Butler were pretty cool. Yeah, and so we could, I'd love to get all the little interesting things so we can't hit every year and every team and name every name, but what about that first team? There's something about the first team, right? There is, there is. And so kind of an interesting dynamic. I interviewed for the position like in February, so I knew I was going to start in August. So the incoming for us, I worked for it was already there. And you know, so it's, it's a little interesting dynamic. I was lucky. I knew a lot of those sophomores before I got there. And it, it was a relatively small crew. You know, we didn't, when I first started, we did not have huge scholarship availability numbers. Why is that Butler? So I had seven sophomores and, you know, and I JW McCurry, Clint Taylor, Quint Strypter, Chad Douthit, Josh Vogel, Sean Tiffany, Doug Sims, those are the seven. And it was interesting because, you know, so those seven boys that were on that sophomore team, you know, it's become the norm now that every program really waits to break out their team until their sophomores at national contests. You know, when you were getting started, there was still a little bit, you know, of students that would break out during their freshman year, judge maybe at one or two, wrapped around in the fall of their sophomore year. You know, it was just a different dynamic. And so we had students in that group that had broke out at multiple different contests. There was only seven of them. But by the time we got to Denver, I was down to four, you know, and now maybe five. But anyhow, then we lost a couple more throughout the spring. So I also had to keep kind of things going. I had to myself try to break out a freshman, you know, and try to, you know, continue to have competitive teams, but eventually work a couple of years later into only sophomores, judging. But, uh, but yeah, that freshman team, correct me if I'm wrong, Jason, this would be the fall of 97. I think that's the same age you would have done. I would have been a freshman, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that first freshman team I had would have been, like Matt Spangler, David Piney, young man named Nolan Frans, Charlene Black, Shane Tiffany, a brother to sophomore Shawn, Michael Claiming, Jamie Meyer. So I had seven of them in that group as well, that, uh, and they were so fun. They were so fun. And they taught me a lot. They taught me a whole lot. And I, I think we were competitive right off out the shoe. We were, we were the reserve champion team at the American Royal Lackfall. And we were in the top five everywhere with that group of sophomores that year, maybe, you know, never one one, but we were, we were right on the cusp of it. And but they taught me a ton. They really taught me a lot about, about teaching, about learning that each individual is different. How do I help each individual maximize their skill set, taught me a lot about recruiting, taught me a lot about personalities, you know, but a lot of fun too. And we were so close in age, it also taught me, you know, how to balance, you know, being friendly versus being your friend, you know, and how, how do we go about that process? And, and but we, we had a great time on the road, man. Actually, you, you asked to share stories. I will share a story about that team because this, this dates us a little bit, but very first big trip we went on was to Tulsa. And I say big because I've been asked to judge at the South Plains fair in Lubbock right before Tulsa. So I called them and I said, could I bring my judging team and I'm judging cattle, but, you know, kind of during the off times, would you be okay if we got into some of the other barns and worked, you know, tried to pull some classes and, and practice on other species, and they welcomed it. So I took them with me to love it. And then we drove back to Tulsa for the contest, which would have been on Sunday, I think. We go through Dallas on the way back, we're in two vans, and I'm the only coach, which means a student is always driving the second van. We get split up in Dallas. And this is my first trip ever, and I've lost half of my team. And I have no idea where they are. And this is way before cell phones. I am scared to death. All I can think, Jason, is like, here, I'm going on my first trip and I am going to lose half of my team. And I'm going to be jobless. And I don't know how we thought, how I thought to do this or why they thought to do the same thing. But you may recall on a landline, you always had an answering machine. And you could change your message from another phone. So I went to a pay phone. I called my home phone. By touchstone, I could change the message on my machine. I changed it to tell them what hotel we were staying in and the address in Tulsa. And both of us made it there. Wow. Somehow they thought to call my house also. And they got that message. And they made it to Tulsa. Oh my gosh. Wow. I was frightened though. But I guess we had resourceful enough young people also that happened to be good livestock. Yeah. Absolutely. So you got through that first year there. Your first full year was the 97, 98 year correct. And then you first, and then you're doing some recruiting along the way. And thanks, start propelling for you pretty quickly, don't they? They do. They do. Luckily, you know, that next team that we're freshmen with you. You know, we were again, you know, second at the Royal. We had some, you know, amazing individual successes, you know, amazingly talented team. But they were the first one that won a national contest for me. And they won four worth. That's spring. They had an amazing day. And they were top three or four at every contest. We went to that year as well. And then, yeah, I then it really started. I enjoyed the recruiting process. And I think one of the things that I enjoyed most, you know, I, you got to know the era I walked into. You know, if you think about it, you know, think about who was coaching when you started judging. I mean, my first junior college coach is meeting. I was in a room with Jerry McPeak, Jerry Douglas, Jerry Hawkins, Dan Hogue, John Altowals, Kelly Birch, Ray Rice, Dale Hummel. I mean, gee, it was, it was intimidating. And they were competitive. Holy cow. You know it, you know, you know how your coach was. You know, and those guys loved to hate each other. And man, if if one of them said the sky was blue, that the other seven would argue just for the sake of arguing in a coach's meeting, it seemed like, you know, but it was fun too. And those guys went after it. And I knew if I was going to compete at the level that that I wanted to, that, you know, recruiting is the lifeblood of that. And I was the kid from Maryland who was given a shot. And I always felt like there were immensely talented kids all across the country. And while I was always going to be true to the state of Kansas and find the best kids in our state, I also knew that I'm going to go find some of those young people, maybe like myself, who just hadn't had that exposure. And so that's what I tried to do with, you know, even starting way back then. And it started to blossom. And you know, you've had several of them on, you know, on your to podcast already. But I think about the next couple of years, people like, you know, Cody Sanky, Brent Jennings, you know, Shelley Moore Collins now, you know, a Shane Bedwell, John McCurty, you know, Shane work, you know, just a, an ear out of there of, first of all, what I would call an incredible stockman. Some of them that had never judged in their life before they came to school. And I love training those kind as much as any. But they, it was just in their, in their blood, you know, you know, and those were ones that, you know, like that, I guess, fall of 2000. That'd be Brent Jennings team. That team was the first one that I had that won both the American Royal and Louisville that fall. And I think if you sat down those guys today and said, hey, who recruited you out of high school, most of them would just say Chris, you know, and we had them from all over the place from Michigan to Maryland to Wyoming and, you know, and the most of them, pretty minimal experience before we got started. And, but they were smart and competitive and worked their tail off. And, and probably surprised some people because their freshman year, they never want a contest. But they were green. It wasn't that they didn't have it in them. They were just green. You know, and then we, we came around that fall. And when we hit that home run, finally, it was, you know, I worked hard like anybody in the recruiting process while you go in it, go into it thinking, if I work hard enough at this, I'll get every single kid I want. I you're naive to think that, nor should you get every kid you want. Some of them need to make other decisions. But our program, you know, wasn't quite at the level of some others at that time. And certainly I did not have the experience that some of those other guys I mentioned did. You know, and so I lost a few in those early years that I would have loved to have had. But when we made that splash, then it really started like that next recruiting class when I got like a Harlem yoke, I'm out of Oklahoma and a Kyle Perez and, you know, Kyle Conley and, you know, Aaron Cooper and, you know, and, and then to a Logan McClendon in a Tyler, Norvell, Christian Custis, the Stuart kids, you know, it just, it started, you know, really, really snowball and, and, you know, I'm not going to ever say recruiting became easy. But when you compare, it can enjoy it and go after it and pair it with success that you can show them tangible success. You know, it's, it's certainly easier to get them to come visit. And then I think we sold them on the got them there. Yeah. And so you know, you're there at El Dorado. I actually have never been there. I believe or not. I can't believe I haven't been there. But, you know, you brought in, basically a culture that highlights this, this college across the nation. Do you have any recollection of that of, you know, how the, the president and all the faculty saw that or how did you perceive that? Yeah. Jason, it's interesting that you ask that. You know, one thing you learn in this process is that you hope you have administration that supports you. And I was lucky to have that. But in those kind of roles, you can never have the expectation that they understand exactly what you do. You know, while they appreciated that we were successful, they were never going to understand what is livestock judging at the most intricate, you know, of details, right? But one of the things that I started doing my, the very first year I was there. Once every semester, I asked to get on the agenda for our Board of Regents meeting. And the Board of Regents, you know, met, I think at remund, but we would go once a semester. And all of the upper administration is part of that meeting as well. And I don't know why I decided to do it that first year, but I just, I felt like what you're talking about is I need to make sure they understand who these kids are. And you know, we would go to that meeting and I would introduce myself, of course. And then literally I'd sit down and I'd let the kids take over. And it was the best thing I ever could have done. And as we grew as a program and we got more successful, we already had the administration sold on the fact that we were bringing spectacular leaders to El Dorado and to the Butler campus. And those kids, you know, and this is not a knock on any other program, but when we were there and three or four other programs were there and ours got up there and they could articulate their thoughts and thank them. And I could follow it up and say this group of 15 kids has an average GPA of 3.71, you know, and this is the other things they're doing in the industry. And as leaders away from campus, in conjunction with what they're doing here, you know, and we spend 48 hours a week practicing on top of all this stuff. You know, it was just, it was something that they believed in and then, you know, as we're starting to have success, it just, it permeated across the entire main campus. That's what was cool and unbelievable to watch. And then all of a sudden, I have the vice president of academics asking me if she can go on a judging workout with us. You know, and that became really fun to do things like that with them. So, you know, yeah, I'm glad you asked that question because I think it's something we were proactive in helping them to see. And then it became, you know, almost had a life of its own. Yeah. So, you know, kind of rolls through that, that era of Butler and your role as a coach and maybe hit some quick highlights. And then I'll ask a question to follow up on that. Yeah. So I started in the fall of 97. And I was that Butler through the spring of 2013. So I coached 16 years there and gosh, to, you know, the highlights, we had a ton of them. I, you know, they were, that was an amazing, amazing run. You know, we won Louisville's always been a big one to me. It always has been, you know, especially given my background and, and, you know, where I grew up and what it meant as a senior college contestant. And we had, I think, seven champion teams at Louisville during that time frame. And five or six at the American Royal, we, we, we were fortunate multiple times, you know, won each of the major contests. So, and, and, and you don't do that without incredible individual success, too. You know, there's, there, and, and I get questions a lot. Well, which team was your best team or what? I don't know. That's, that's, that is way, way too hard to the answer. But I was lucky to, I was lucky to coach a lot of them, you know, and a lot of great, great people that have had huge impact in the industry. And if I were to sum up my years at Butler, you know, the, the thing that I would continue to come back to is less about, you know, what contests we won and more of about the people that are impacting the industry today. And like I said, you had Brady on, but I think about, you know, I had Brady, Spencer Scott and Taylor Frank all on my last team at Butler and all went on and coached at a collegiate level. You know, a couple of them still coaching today. And, you know, I think of, you know, people like Parker Hentley, you know, Taylor Graham, Maverick Squires, you know, Morgan Meisenheimer, just a year before that, you know, just Chandler Aiken, somebody that you, I'm sure, have dealt with and worked with in your part of the country. You know, just names that immediately, you know, popped to my head that had been, you know, not just important to our success at Butler, but went on, you know, and have done such amazing things, you know, in academia and careers in the livestock industry. Gosh, it's a who's who of judging, you know, at remade your livestock show in the country. And I think a lot of it has to do with the way we try to approach things. You know, and I still, to the very end, you know, in some ways judging has a luck component, you know, to it, it always will. But I, the biggest thing beyond all the wins that I would say in those 16 years of Butler that I'm maybe even more proud of is, in that time frame, we were the only team in the country that was never outside the top 10 at a single national contest. And you can't have luck without consistency first. And, and we won more than our share if I'm proud of that. But, you know, I think what we did along the way was, I just tried to help them become better evaluators. And if you're a great evaluator and you can break them down right, then we're gonna have our successes, you know, in a contest. And, and most importantly, I think those guys will tell you a practice with me was never about me, you know, in trying to tell them there's only one way to go about doing this. Or there's one placing that's right, period, and just get into your head. No, I wanted them to be a thinker. I wanted them to be, you know, yes, grounded in understanding what we needed to look for. And there's certain things you can't afford to miss. But I wanted them to have their own thought process. I wanted them, you know, to someday be able to leave there and say, my time on a judging team, grew my ability as a evaluator, but more importantly, it grew my strength in, in what I believe in, and what my kind is. And Chris gave me the opportunity when things were close to say, this is close, and that's my kind, and that's what I'm gonna do. You know, and, you know, the conviction to do that, because I think long term, if you don't have that and you step into a judging arena, you're gonna be on for a long day. You know, you gotta have conviction, you have to have the ability to break them down and talk about them, you know, but ultimately, you gotta be able to make a call for yourself, you know, and that was always my coaching philosophy, and I think it's been fun to watch it trickle down and, you know, and see, you know, those names, and gosh, I can go on forever. I'm thinking about people like Jarrah Settles or Barrett Carlyle and, you know, just, you know, some of those that, you know, that have judged major nationals shows and, and, you know, have had amazing success in their careers too. So, yeah, you obviously coached a lot of coaches, and if you take that, those people that you mentioned out of the judging world, it's a huge impact. So, that's pretty remarkable. And then just generationally, the number, I mean, we had Taller Bush, you know, down here judging it at the National Fair. And so you just put that in the equation, you know, and just generationally coached a coach and all those things is pretty incredible. And so, before we leave Butler, though, just want to get some random fun stories, if possible, or one thing that hits me is, is there somebody that hits your mind, you're like, that they just went from zero to 100, just kind of out of the woodwork, out of the blue, you know, was there a country board, kind of like Brent Jennings, just as he'll really as possible in the end, I mean, doing something major. I just, anything like that. - Yeah, well, Brent's a good example, and he's told you the story, you know, of how he got here. So, I don't need to rehash that, but I will tell one story. There is always one young person that pops to my mind when I have worked with young people who feel like they're never gonna figure it out. I had a pair of brothers that judged for me from Washington State, Spokane, Washington area. Their last name was Williams. And Jordan Williams, the younger of the two, both of them were on insane teams. And Jordan came to us, both those boys incredibly smart, great athletes, learned to compete through athletics, but I met them when I went to judge up there one time, and their dad is their FFA advisor and did a spectacular job with it. But you didn't have to spend 10 minutes at their Spokane Junior Livestock show to know. They haven't seen this era of livestock very often. I mean, it was like going in a time capsule, the first time I went there, you know, and some of the things, you know, the type of livestock I saw, and even just the grooming procedures and showmanship, you know, it was, it was really interesting, but these two boys had something, you could tell it. You could just tell. So Jordan, his freshman year, I don't know how many contests we went to, seven or eight. Jordan was dead last on points at the contests, and not only that, he was last out of about 15 team members at all but one contest during their freshman year. It's sophomore year. We won Kansas City, Louisville, Fort Worth, Houston, several other, you know, of the smaller contests, but, and he was on the floor every single time. And was top 10 individual on multiple occasions, you know, all American, and I love telling that story because he never quit, and he continued to work, and it just was a matter of being exposed to the right things, and I could see it happening, but it's one of those things that's tough as a competitor to still feel like you're working, and thinking the results aren't showing. And I could see the results happening. He just wasn't putting all of it quite together yet. And, you know, that is a fun part of the story, you know, for me and that time at Butler. And Black, I could go to a Shane Bedwell, and, you know, talk about a lot of the same things, you know, you talk about just a country kid that loved cattle, you know, that's a great example, you know, but those are the kind that, you know, I loved the chance to work with, and, you know, so that's probably one that pops pretty quick. - Very cool. You had a great career and made a huge impact that kind of goes without saying. And we were not even really touching the surface on some of this, but, you know, were you ever thinking that you might actually go to K-State and Coach? I mean, did that just come out of woodwork? Or, I mean, was that a big surprise? - Yeah, you know, when I graduated from K-State, if I would have been asked, Chris, what's your dream job? I would have told you I'd love to be on faculty at Kansas State University and coach the livestock judging team. So I'm not gonna say it wasn't ever in my mind 'cause it was always in my mind. What I'm also proud to be able to say is that I'm one of the few people probably that can walk this planet and say I had two dream jobs. - Yeah. - And I just never knew what the other one was until I got lucky enough to get it. And one of the hardest things in anyone's life is to make a professional change, especially when you're happy at one location. And I was. And I would not trade my 16 years at Butler for anything. But Manhattan and K-State was, and always was gonna be incredibly special to me, to my family. My wife was a graduate here as two degrees from K-State. In fact, we mentioned people of importance. My wife's maiden name is Good. And her grandfather and dad and good were brothers. And so this place means a lot to both of our families. But when the position when Dr. Shaki made a decision that he was gonna step away from coaching, and I was approached with the phone call, Dr. Dave Nichols called me. He was head of the search committee and asked me if I would apply. And I was honored. And it was a dream. But I was also in that position where I had found a place I loved also. And the hardest part about that decision, Jason, this would have been in the spring, winter time with the plan of starting in August. And I had a group of freshman students at Butler at the time who I felt like I had made a commitment. to. And I had a group of high school students out there that I was recruiting and making a commitment to, you know, and ultimately I declined that invitation to apply because I didn't feel like the timing was right and I didn't feel like I could pull that rug out from underneath that group of freshmen in particular. So a couple weeks later I get another phone call and I think this tells you a little bit about K-State, a little about Dr. Shaki, a little bit about this place as a whole, but they said we really would like to see you apply. And we've had discussions with Dr. Shaki and if you would apply, if you would happen to be the decision, you know, the choice, he has agreed to coach for one more year, well, in order to make that transition happen on your timetable. And I didn't have words, Jason, I just, I didn't have words. And so I did apply and not without a lot of soul-searching first and a lot of discussion, you know, with, you know, with my family because it's a, it's a big change obviously. But we, we made the decision to apply and I was offered that position. And it allowed me to do a lot of things. First of all, I talk about those freshmen, I got to coach them through their sophomore year. The high school students that I was recruiting, I immediately got to make that phone call and say, Hey, you have time to finalize decisions. We want you here to at Butler. I promise you one of the big things I wanted to be able to do. I had watched a lot of great historic junior college programs, have coaches make transitions and do different things. And because of the timing, some of those programs never rebounded from what they once were. And Butler had meant so much to me, the people there had meant so much to me. I wanted to leave that place ready to go to yet another level. And now I wanted to make sure that we could make that transition happen the right way. So I, and I told that group of high school seniors, I said, I don't know who the coach is going to be. Well, I can tell you, I'll be here for your freshman year. And you will have the best coach in the country for your sophomore year. And we hired Marcus Arnold and he came on board halfway through my final year there. So we coached together and kind of learned the reins together a little bit during the spring semester of my final year. And he took the reins and ran with it and brought Taylor Frank on, you know, a year or two later and Taylor went on with it from there and never missed a beat. And I'm so thankful for K-State for giving me a dream job, but also respecting that piece of the puzzle and what that had meant to me. And it allowed us to make the transition in the right way. So you know, that's kind of a long story to get around to telling you, yeah, yeah, it was always in the back of my mind, I guess. But I didn't know if that opportunity would ever present itself. And if the timing would be right or not, yeah. Well, I just, that's really an actually incredible story. I mean, coaching is so hard. And when you're thinking you're about to leave, and you make a decision to go one more year like in Scott Shaki's case, that's not a small decision. No, that's significant. So you're making that transition and just tell us about what, you know, just as exciting, obviously, I mean, is it just a real natural thing or what all transpired for you? Yeah, you know, it's, it was, it was a huge transition from a personal perspective to begin with. You know, we, my, my first, first son was born in the fall of 2013, which was my, excuse me, fall of 2012, which was my last year at Butler. So we have, you know, a 10, 11 month old in that process of moving to Manhattan. But the transition was a lot. I, because I wanted to do for a while there, Jason, I was, I was, I was doing two jobs in some ways, because I knew when I got to case state, I was going to be coaching the team right away. So in the fall, that year, with the team that was finishing up, I would be jumping right in with them. And so I didn't want that transition to be awkward. You know, I knew several of those students on that team. That would have been a team like Parker Henley was on. He was, you know, a sophomore in my next last year at Butler transferred to case state. And, you know, he and, and Jared win and a couple others that I had coached at Butler. But there were several new faces that I had not worked with. You know, so like, typically in the junior college ranks, you know, we'll go hard there, you know, through finals, go to the express, or it was express at the time contest, to express and Griswold kind of weekend. And then because we went so hard with those sophomores, we just kind of give them time off and then come back in January. Well, senior college is just here and up. So from Griswolds, they went a whole nother, you know, four or five, six days. I jumped in the van with those with the case state crew and spent that winter workout with them just because I wanted to get to know them, you know, on a personal level and, and I tried to do a little of that. And I was back and forth a lot during the spring because I was recruiting the next group of students. And when they came to a campus visit in Manhattan, if I could be there, I was going to be there. So I was up and down the road a lot doing both things. So that made it a difficult, you know, transition just in the time commitment that it took to try to do it right. But aside from that, the transition was very smooth. Obviously, I was a student here, but even during those years at Butler, I came and worked judging camps with Dr. Shaki every year. I was pretty familiar with the landland and we jumped headfirst right into it. Yeah. So you're jumping right into the senior college world, you know, you were so entrenched with Juco world and you did exceptionally well. What was that? Was there much of a change? What was that change like for you just from a coaching in the contest? Was the contest different from your perspective or not really? Yes and no, I guess, you know, for me personally, I wasn't going to change my philosophies on what I want them to take from a judging program. But there was clear differences. And the first one, it allowed me to go back to my roots maybe a little more in the fact that while the competitor in me wants to win every single contest we go to, the beauty of senior college coaching versus junior college is that you can take a gradual approach to improvement and make some different decisions along the way in order to make sure that improvement happens by the time October and November roll around. And it's not that we didn't go to Denver win. It's not that we didn't go to every contest with the hope of winning. But more importantly, it's about development. And what can we do to position ourselves to have a chance when the national championship rolls around? So that's the biggest difference because, you know, at a junior college level, every one of those national contests technically has the same value, you know, and it's your job as a coach to peak four or five times. That's not easy. Whereas at a senior college level, you can slightly change that approach with the hopes of peaking at one time. So I did that in it. It did change a little bit. Like when I came back here, one of the things that I wanted to stay true to San Antonio had become a very, very strong national contest by that point. We would make a trip to Denver. I typically had to cut the team down to go to Denver, but then I would split the team in half and take half of them to Fort Worth and the other half to San Antonio. And I didn't do it top half bottom half. I literally did it. What's the most economical? If I can get what allows me to get into the fewest hotel rooms at each location and make this, you know, economically feasible, but I wanted to give a national contest exposure to as many possible contestants as possible and not just go through the contest, but have the pressure for knowing you're on the team just like I did in Denver. And you know, when I did in Denver, I told you, I messed up. I make mistakes, but I needed kids to make mistakes too so that it could make them better. And I look back, you know, talk about four year students. Well, we had a run of three or four years there. We're our highest placing individual, including one high individual at the national contest were four year students. Wow. And they didn't pick it up right away, but by cutting those teams in half, that team in half. In the spring they got exposure at a national contest maybe a little before they were totally ready for it Yeah, but it was important in their development and I I believed very strongly in that we continued to do that during my time here So that was definitely something I did different the other thing that's different Jason is you now have 2021 22-year-olds that have a different level of maturity Yeah, have been down a different academic road where they have Learned some things in a classroom that I love to try to apply to what we do in judging and Into reasons especially when it comes to performance related reasons and that so if there's anything slightly different It's that it gave us the opportunity to maybe Open up the term book a little more and do some things that maybe you know a junior college Contestant wasn't quite ready for and I never wanted to get the cart in front of the horse They needed to understand what they're talking about before they could talk about it You know and that's so those would be probably some of the Big and subtle differences that I saw between the two. Yeah, that's some interesting perspective You know you've got your teams that you you had there at K state kind of give us an overview of that I know you you had some national championships in there, but obviously every team is important We know I've had you all now for over an hour and forty minutes or hour and almost hour and a half or so, but You know kind of give us the highlights of your career You're awesome career that K state and kind of tell us what it means to you sure Well from 2013 to fall of 2013 till the fall of 2023 I coached eleven teams here and and you know, we had we had a great Rodman again Proud of our consistency as much as anything else Dr. Shaki had a run of five national championships in a row only coached ever do that I had a run of four reserved national champions in a row Before we not start first national championship, and I think I'm the only coach to have four reserved national champions in a row So that hurts and is prideful all at the same time if you know what I mean But to get that close at times, but you know one of the other things that you've talked about at times and some of your other podcasts that I I also had a chance to do when I came back here that I had never been exposed to what is our Meet animal evaluation team so our department head at the time believed very strongly in that event and I was charged with Re-engaging in that as a department and and as a field of fielding a team and we started doing that when Dr. Travis so Quinn came on faculty a year after me I immediately jumped at the opportunity to invite him on board and we started coaching that together So you know between the two of them, I think I've had the good fortune to to now have coached eight different national champion teams here at K state and And you know, we've had we've had an incredible run and and again Impactful Keith, you know, just just great students that found their way to Manhattan for all the right reasons You know only one of which was a judging team participation, but yeah, it's just incredible alumni and people You know out there that that support I'm Sierra case state. It's been a lot of fun Yeah, and then we don't really hit on the main animal evaluation contest a lot, but Back when I was in college they were trying to get that Reignited and it was it was pretty interesting back and let's say around 2000 2001 that contest was just Western as a little while you could really put it But it has developed into something pretty remarkable and to do well in that says something around you got three layers of Just doing things very well in a very production way, right. It's it's real world So it's it's it is and one of the things that that went when I was charged with that what I What I made the decision to do was you know once I researched and I figured out what this contest and tailed I said Man if we do this right this will make our livestock judging team better So I I required their participation in that during the spring While they were on the team Yeah, and it made it hard trying to balance both things and maybe Maybe it sacrificed, you know, some of the things we could have done in some spring contest But I just came to the belief of man If we are the best team out there at truly evaluating composition in market animals Yeah, if we are the best team out there in understanding performance values and you know an EPDs and indexes and scenarios and how to You know how to break those apart then that's going to do nothing but make us more successful in the fall Yeah, and that's why I really pushed it as hard as I did and and but you're right. It is it's ruling. It is three tough tough days and it takes a It takes an ungodly amount of focus and It takes a lot of talent to Be successful in that thing so I I appreciate you know Travis and and his Approach to it as well, and I think together We helped our our students You know become more successful in the fall lifestyle judging arena because of their involvement in it Yeah, I just think about the impact on people in the industry to truly pull all those things together It's hard to put into words, but there's just a huge depth there So it's logical and all that and so we didn't hit on the the K state deal real hard But I don't want to minimize it either you know hit a song some some K state judging things it just that That hits your mind whatever it is those years you spent there is head coach and just kind of just kind of rant for a minute or two on your Experiences coach there Well, the first thing I think about when I think about K state lifestyle judging team is just a history Now on and one of the coolest things that That I got involved with first when I was a student here But I tried to come to every single year after that we have an alumni judging team reunion every spring and It's amazing how many people it brings back to campus and you really learn What you're involved in and that's something I've tried to expose teams to over the years to you know Yes, we're after that bronze pool But when this is all done you're part of something way bigger than yourself or even the you know 18 other team members that are part of it with you this year You know you're you're in a fraternity of sorts a brotherhood of sorts whatever you want to call it You know, but you're part of something pretty incredible and special and that's something that was really cool over the years here at K state how many Alumni and then siblings and heck, I I coach dr. Shocky stun shot. Well, you know even experiences like that You know that you know of students that I had a chance to work with here when when you think of some of those ones that came in those first Couple years that already mentioned that you know up to you know International students. We've had a lot of Canadians You know, but a lot of both incredible Kansas-based families and our state students that have made case state their choice in large part because of that history and the other thing that I will always say about this place is pretty special level of humility and integrity and You know that I've always said case state has a personality and this department and our judges Teaching programs I think very very much are a reflection of the personality that I think is case state and That's why I loved coaching judging teams for nearly three decades is because of the people I got to be with You know and and it all started right here as a team member and it finished as a coach Getting to hopefully impart a little wisdom on some pretty amazing young people and But most importantly just exposing them to you know this place and the people that have built it Yeah, pretty incredible. You know, you made a huge impact you sacrifice so much personally just to do the role that you did As coach at both institutions. I mean, obviously your wife is a sacrifice to turn to I'm thankful now that you get to be home more I assume a little bit more at least with your family I mean, tell us about your role. They're currently at case state So as I stepped away in fall of 2023, I I picked up a a little bit more teaching role and I love that piece of the puzzle I love being in a classroom. I always have Jason. It's you know Regardless of the background of my students. I like that engagement and I like that Opportunity to spend with with with students, but beyond that I also picked up an additional recruiting role for our department and a more active role in student recruitment and then the biggest Change was I now am one of the co-faculty advisors before the pure red beef cattle unit and that has been really fun You know a chance to you know to build on an incredible tradition there We hold a production sale the first Friday of every March and it is a student run bullsale We teach a class. In fact, I will start that class next Monday And it runs for the last eight weeks of the fall semester and the first eight weeks of the spring semester And literally our students are involved in every single part of putting on that sale You know outside of auctioneering they'll do every single other piece of it It's building a sale catalog, picturing, videoing, taking bids on sale day, you know Caching people out, you know, visiting with buyers as they they are there on set you name it every piece You know The intricate workings of that sale is student driven and it's it's really the only one of it It's kind anymore, you know in the country So that that is a really fun part of what I do and and then like you said I get to be a dad very blessed Yeah, I coached for 27 years and when I stepped away my son was 10 years old And I am so thankful that I got to do what I loved for so long and have you know The people in my life during those years that were so amazing and will be my extended family forever and ever But I also watched some of my peers Maybe not get the chance to be as involved with their own kids By it says what they'd look back and wish they maybe would have been and I and my wife and I maybe we were just lucky to have Children a little bit later that I could do both those things, but There's not very many Basketball football baseball games, you know That I'm gonna miss a soft ball volleyball my daughter whatever it is I'm gonna be there unless we got two of them at the same time and then You know son, I have to figure out who goes where but you know that's that's something I I am blessed to be able to say is that I stepped away on my own terms I miss the heck out of it, but I've also said if I didn't miss it, then I probably stuck around too long And so it's it's still in the blood and when I can tell you when Peyton Dalmer loads up the band to go to the American Royal here in a couple days with the team That contest is going on my brain. You'll be thinking about it. You know, it's still it's still there But very fortunate. I've got three kids Mason and Kinsley and Cameron and age seven to now just turn 14 and They're a blessing and I love every opportunity. I get to beat you. Yeah Well, that's pretty awesome. That's the good stuff. That's the important stuff and you know, we're You know, rounding out the kind of a lot of the coaching career here You know, there's so many things we didn't talk about your Exceptional and extensive judging career Just real brief or are there any shows that you judge that are just you're like while that was crazy unique Whether it was international or some county affair that just maybe it was on an island somewhere I have no ideas anything hit your mind Yeah, there's I mean, it's it's such an honor Jason to judge any event and and I will start by saying I still get calls today, you know, where they'll be reluctant to this they begin the call and say I feel like I we really want to have you but do you still judge County fairs and Jason until I'm incapable of doing it. I hope I always get to judge County fairs because that's where it started for me you know and and I love the opportunity to work with young people that are passionate and want to learn I want Maybe somewhere there's a kid that gets mesmerized by me And maybe that is what it takes for them To make a leap of faith and go somewhere and do some of the things that I had a chance to do yeah, and I love that opportunity because Anytime I step in the ring at the County Fair level, I always Try to reflect when I talk that when I walk in that ring it may be my 30th County Fair of the summer, but it is that kids one and only And I'm going to treat it like that and so I get a blast at all There's a couple maybe that stick to my mind, you know, the first time I ever got a chance to judge the Fort Worth Steers show I think that is one that you never never leaves your mind I was honestly I was the last person to judge it in when they had it in the the old arena and the first person to judge it in the new You know big arena or when they moved it to the big arena and that was what a spectacle It all the Texas majors or that way, but that that in particular that's the first one I did of those and and it was It was incredibly memorable another one that That I loved talking about I've gotten the opportunity to judge The beef empire days, which is an event out Western Kansas, you know, that is a feedlot steer and have for show and Then they harvest all those cattle and they get carcass results and everything you made a carcass contest as well But it's a different title show obviously, but But I think it's important as we grow in the judging world that we Continue to that's why I like meat animal leave I'll also is because it continues to show our young people here at K state that You know while there are certainly things we need to be able to see in a show animal that make them unique we can still stay grounded in production trades and it's why I always loved feedlot steers in Denver and and back to your point It's one of the cool things about Judging at a senior college level. I get to start by teaching them about a feedlot steer Then I got to move to teaching them about a show steer that has no hair on it And then I get to move to a show steer that has hair in the progression of our year That's the way it works now and how cool is that start them production wise start them without then move to the okay Here's a show steer, but without the you know the hair to look through and now we're going to finish up and we're going to keep all those same priorities We're just going to add some extra features to it. You know, so I love that beef on fire days and and Just the the uniqueness of a show like that But now we could go through countless number of shows You know that each are different in their own right, but those are definitely the two that popped up in my mind quick Yeah, and so for those of us that don't live in Texas, you know, you're sorting through 2,500 steers and Workstock show and how what's the length of time on the so depends on the show, but at those Texas majors It's either two or three days and it is it's grueling You know depending on the breed your classes can range anywhere from 30-ish to 70 and so it's got to be quick decisions and You know one of the things that's that I take try to take a lot of pride in it's you know at that level with those majors Just simply making the sale is is is the goal for many many families out there So you know, maybe it's the top 10 in the class that make a sale and I'm sitting there, you know with 15 of them that have made the cut 18 of them that made the cut and I've started ranking them and now I get down to Five steers that are gonna be 9 through 13 And two of those are going to be families that make a sale and three of them are gonna be left at and You know you've got to you got to understand the magnitude of that and While you're still not going to make people happy you have to at least reassure them that you took every single thing into account and you didn't rush a decision On something that impacts them the way it does so you know that that's that's a fun and yet Really really important task that a judge has at those major shows. We all think about the champions But for many of those families it's it's not about the champion It's about a sale slot that allows them to keep doing this next year You know and that's now it's something different that that you learn as you get down Yeah, you get down there or because some of these major shows across the country Awesome, well Chris we we went through quite a bit, but we're still even with that way you really just Touched a little bit on the You know the great career that you've had and continue to have in many ways I'm still serving still teaching still mentoring people still serving there at case state obviously So well, thanks for coming on the profile man and greatly appreciate all that you do and have done and look forward to seeing how you and your family develop and and Grow over the next few years and looking forward to seeing how how thanks progress for you man Well, I appreciate it Jason. It's this I love what you do and the guests and the breadth of, you know, guests that you've had and again, so many of them that meant a lot in my life and and we'll continue to and this judging thing is a full circle. It took just a farm kid from Maryland and gave him a whole lot of opportunities I never could have dreamed of. So I hope you have listeners out there that you know can appreciate that and know that you know that opportunities gonna be there for them too and you know just a matter of you know setting some goals and doing your best to put very people around you and they give you opportunities and I've been blessed to have have that for sure. I either there's one thing if you've got time that will spend about two minutes on I forgot to ask about the cat tail classic and you know are there any northeastern kids that that maybe hit your mind as well with that component involved into it. Yeah, it's funny. I think it was was it wrecked at them maybe that brought that up in an episode before but a lot of awesome memories from that event Jason. My first year at Butler, one of the things that I did annually was go back to Maryland. I was in a nine-month contract and I've spent some time back home in Maryland still working with youth programs and but that first year when I started there at Butler I brainstormed this idea and of course I had to run it by mom and dad because they were gonna play as intercooler role as anybody but one of my goals and and and part of it was a selfish school. I'll be totally honest with you. I wanted to give kids in that part of the country an opportunity to see something that I didn't get a chance to see when I was their age. I wanted to expose them to collegiate judging and we we developed this idea for the cat tail classic and I would take my students it'd be the summer before their sophomore year and we would make a trip back to Maryland. On the way we'd make stops we would practice. It was some of the best practicing we ever did because we weren't practicing for anything in particular. We were just seeing livestock. There was no pressure to make the team at that point. It was just let's go see some good livestock. We learned a lot but we got back there and we would put on a clinic a day clinic so we set up practice classes and I let my kids do just go be coaches for a day and then we put on a contest the next day and it's unbelievable what that thing grew to and there were years that we were you know 300 contestants and from all up and down the Mid-Atlantic region and we had great support sponsorship support. I offered a scholarship to the high individual overall and in the contest to come to Butler and a lot of them took advantage of that over the years and you know the number of students that you know I had that came to Butler and and to other places too. I would say it just opened their eyes you know but you know many came to Butler and and then even on the case stayed over those years and but it was it there was a lot of pride that I took in putting on that event but more so in then seeing what those young people that you know were excited and you know saw what judging was at a different level and took on that opportunity to go and do something that that was that was so cool to watch and I could I could come up with a list of my long Bren Jennings was at the very first one that's where I met him you know I remember the young man named Matt Spangler on that team they got done reasons and he came Matt came to me said Chris there's this great big kid from somewhere down south he sure I'm pretty sure I understood every word he said but he can see livestock yeah and and just stories like that you know that you know somebody like a Morgan Mison Heimer who was as successful in collegiate livestock judging as any person has ever been you know was on a national champion team at Oklahoma State was a high individual for us at Butler at Louisville as well on a champion team at Louisville both junior and senior college and is widely considered one of if not the greatest livestock photographer in the country who's first contested her life was the Catsale class yeah and also just people like that that you know got their exposure through that event and we did it for 15 years the 15 summers that I was at Butler and when we transitioned here to case state we discontinued that for many reasons it put my mom and dad through a lot and I thank him for it we did it on our family farm we had the event at the farm so one thing I'm proud to say about my parents is they they did it if they were gonna do something they did it the right way so man at place was a maculate and it was always ready for that event but it wasn't easy to make it that way so I thank him for that but also when I moved here to case state the summers change for students between their junior and senior year yeah they need to be doing internships they need to be doing some other things and you know so the timing was right to step away from it but it was it was an awesome event we had a lot of fun with it pretty incredible great stuff thanks again Chris I know you got things to do and best luck to you down the road man I appreciate it Jason thanks for having me yes sir you