Speaker 1how big is the amazon rainforest try to get my head around the scale of it
Speaker 2i'm bad with numbers what i do know is that it's larger than the lower 48 states it's it's absolutely tremendous it's the largest contiguous rainforest on earth and
Speaker 1other parts of it that people have never been to
Speaker 2100 there are still parts of the amazon rainforest that are unexplored there's parts of the amazon rainforest that no one's ever been to and if you really want to blow your own mind the canopy of the amazon rainforest is about 150 160 feet up above our heads which is far and half of the life in a rainforest exists in the canopy so you're talking about the most mega biodiverse biome that has ever existed there's never been more terrestrial wildlife anywhere on earth than in the amazon rainforest and right now in the entire fossil record we're at the apex the climax community of the amazon rainforest it's that brilliant where the andes rainforest cloud forests meet the lowland tropical amazon there it is that's the most life we know of in the entire
Speaker 1universe and in terms of human life i hear there's lots of human life there that we've never
Speaker 2contacted there are various tribes living through the western amazon and you have the eseha and the machigenga and you have the yinay and and then further out beyond all of these there were always rumors that the andes rainforests were the most beautiful and the most beautiful and that there were uncontacted tribes and and for the first many years that i was there it was always someone's uncle someone's brother someone's cousin would would come back with these crazy stories that someone had seen the tribes and that they were that they were tall and naked and they still hunted with bows and arrows and they would and then every now and then somebody would come back with a seven foot arrow a spear tipped with bamboo huge bamboo tip this big razor sharp like a machete and that was the only proof we had that they existed until the day we met them when did you meet
Speaker 1them for the first time so in order
Speaker 2to explain how we met them we should probably explain why what where we got to in how how the 18 year old researcher became the director of of of a major organization but please okay well somewhere along the way as we as we as we did these expeditions through the amazon and i became closer and closer with the indigenous people you know jj as a teacher kept telling me and that's and that's what the the first chapter of the book is about is you know him just teaching me the incredible interconnectedness there's this there's this moment that i write about where he's going look at this beach and tell me the news and i said what and he said yeah he said every day the ground is like last night's newspaper it tells you what happened so i look at the beach and there's jaguar tracks and it's like a mess of jaguar tracks and some jaguar scat and i made no sense of it and he was like this is where she came yesterday to drink that's where she pooped this is where she came today to drink you can see the newer tracks and then he's like and what you didn't notice you didn't see the vultures above us i look up and there's vultures above us and he goes notice they're not looking at us they're looking at the jaguar and so they're looking that way jaguar had a fresh deer kill and had continually been eating and then coming to the river to drink and so he can decipher all of these incredible things and so as he's taking me through these worlds of butterflies and interconnected species where there's a mist river flowing over the rainforest this this avatar on earth and then we then they burned it
Speaker 1down who burned
Speaker 2it down the loggers and so the first time i saw ancient forest a place that i love with trees significantly bigger than this room there's this cacophony of life this orchestra this symphonic roar of life that you get in the morning especially in the morning in the amazon and then at night there's the night chorus and when you hear that silenced it's one of the most horrific things that you can experience because places that we loved trees that have been standing for a thousand years species that had never been described by science were all incinerated and i said to jj i said how do we this this this can't be allowed this can't this can't possibly be something that's permitted and i said isn't there somebody that we can call we were standing on the side of the river and he he leaned forward he looked this way and he looked that way and he goes do you see anybody he goes because i don't see anybody he goes you have to do something i said i have to do something i said i'm 19 20 years old so what am i going to do i said i don't have a phd i don't have a trust fund i don't have a media presence i don't have anything i had a machete and i had bare feet we and so that was the start of the journey where we said the thing we love is being destroyed we could see the smoke on the horizon the trees that we had explored and become to love were laying smoldering on the ground in front of us and we said okay now we have to figure out a way to change the narrative the wildest place on earth is about to be destroyed bulldozed and burned how do we save it and so that's where when you ask the question of how does life in the jungle sort of translate to what your listeners are going to find interesting it's taking on a task that's so gigantic that at the start of it we couldn't even come up with it we couldn't even conceptualize how it could be possible even with the right tools
Speaker 1to save the amazon
Speaker 2to save the amazon rainforest let alone for two guys with zero qualifications bare feet and machetes and so we started behind zero and today we're at the point where we've turned loggers and gold miners into conservation rangers we're protecting 130 000 acres of the river we're on the cusp of creating a national park me and jj are the directors of jungle keepers and we're about to make history because we're going to save the entire watershed and all the trees and animals and heartbeats that are left and that's the story that i'm trying to tell that's the whole reason for my existence that's why i that's what i wake up and do every day and you've
Speaker 1really taken on that responsibility in a very personal way i can tell
Speaker 2yeah yeah there's a there's a point where you know i remember because you grow up and i was born in brooklyn and then we you know i grew up in jerseyville for a while and then we moved to the hudson valley but when you start you start going to the amazon for months and months and months out of the year and you come back with scars and stories where a jaguar is breathing on your neck and you you go out on a solo and you come back and then suddenly standing and making conversation at a barbecue feels different it's it's almost like i imagine i have a lot of veteran friends and sort of you almost get addicted to the action and then you also get addicted to the The team, you know, Sebastian Younger writes about this, about the need for community, the tribe, and sort of the mission. And I think that that's one thing that people are missing today, where they don't know, you know, we've been disassociated from religion and community and immediate sort of connection with other humans. And so then, well, then what else is there? How do you, where, to what do you more your existence? What do you, what's your, what's your purpose? What do you wake up and do every day? And so I think, you know, in the old days, it was like, you know, we have to, we have to defend ourselves from the outside world, from warring communities, you know, or even just providing for your family. We have to bring water every day. We have to chop wood every day. We have to figure out how to survive. And today, I mean, when I'm here, I wake up and I go, well, there's, there's water in the fridge, so I don't have to do that. And I'm like, the air conditioner is on. And I'm like, I guess I'll check my phone, you know. And so I, you know, I think we have, like you said, become, somehow we've gone really far away from what we are built for. And one of the beautiful things that happens when you go into the wild, and this can be any wild, is that it starts to change you. And so you go into the wild and you start picking up logs and throwing them. You start splitting firewood. And the first day, you're going to have calluses on your hands. But then after a few weeks, you're going to have tough hands. You start walking barefoot, same thing. The sun starts to make your skin thicker and tanner and more resilient. And then the rain will hammer that home. And you start to get, your eyes start to get sharper. And you start to pay more attention to what you're hearing. And so you start going through this whole transformation where you start to be, almost become a different animal. You become the jungle version of yourself. You become the mountain version of yourself. Your legs start to get strong again. And so, so the wild puts you through this gauntlet of transformation. And you become connected to your environment. And then that feeling of disassociation tends to alleviate a little bit.
Speaker 1I heard about this particular part of the brain that changes as well. You talked about transformation. Yeah. They discovered something not so many years ago called the anterior mid-singulate cortex. Andrew Huberman, I heard him say that he thinks it was one of the most important discoveries in neuroscience of the last century. The anterior mid-singulate cortex is a part of the brain sitting between your emotional brain and your executive control center that essentially grows when you do hard things. Not when you do hard things. When you do things that, specifically when you do things that you don't want to do, but you do them anyway. So not running a marathon because you enjoy it. Things you don't want to do and you do it anyway. And it went through some of the studies I saw said that younger people that have been brought into this sort of doom-scrolling generation have smaller ones. If you are obese, it's smaller. Athletes have bigger ones. And people who live longer have even bigger ones. And it's, they kind of call it like the muscle of the brain of doing hard things. And so when you're talking about that physical transformation. I weirdly thought about, I think it was Roosevelt who, after losing his mum and his wife, his wife on the same day yes after his baby girl was born he went out to the badlands and spent two years doing pretty much what you said putting himself in intentional discomfort yeah and he came back and all of his friends described him as being transformed he went on to become the youngest president in american history he got shot and carried on doing the speech he led the charge um uh i think it was the spanish crusades or something like the spanish war and the rough riders yeah the rough riders and they all pointed at the moment when he went out to the badlands they said it shaped him into becoming a completely different man
Speaker 2that that discomfort yeah 100 and and that's that's why native american cultures for the initiation of the young men would have vision quests where they would send them out into the wilderness and there's still different there's all different types aboriginal cultures have similar things and i wanted to put myself through that and so i went out on that's what i described my first book is going out on that's where jj taught me enough to survive in the jungle and then i started going out on 10 day solos into plays i'd have people bring me to the last place that had a name like i'm talking about poachers and then i would start hiking and i would go so deep in the amazon rainforest that i was just off the map and i would try and survive out there and so i had a lot of adventures that i should not have survived but it was very important to me to put myself through that because i grew up with that discomfort i grew up with the overwhelming crushing stress of being told that we're at the end of days we are losing i mean i saw it at the bronx zoo they said you know we're losing our rainforests and they had the sound of the chainsaws and you see the trees going over and they said we're losing elephants you'd see somebody shoot an elephant goes over and they just said everything that you for me everything you love is being destroyed and pretty soon we're not going to be able to drink and everything's going to be polluted and our fisheries are being destroyed and i said wait so wait a second i said i have to know if it's really that bad so when i got old enough don't it's not just that i was inspired to go out on a mission it was that i wanted to go out on a mission and i was inspired to go out on a mission and i was inspired to go out to find out for myself because i'm i don't like finding out through a screen i don't i don't want other people filtering my information i want to find out for myself is it really that bad and so i was going out on a quest to understand what the reality was if
Speaker 1i sat 18 year old you at this table he sat there and you know this version of you at what 37 38 38 you're sat there so 20 years difference yeah what would the notable differences be between these two men
Speaker 2um well he didn't know how to fish with his feet um that's for sure his machete skills would be terrible but the the noticeable difference would be that that 18 year old his greatest dream was to alleviate the environmental stress that he grew up with escape the world of rules find purpose in life and to just have adventures my my greatest dream was to see the amazon rainforest i looked at people like ten years ago and i was like oh my god i'm gonna die i'm gonna die i'm gonna die i looked at people like teddy roosevelt and jane goodall and i said man they had such incredibly like extraordinary lives and i said how come my life can't be like that i'm over here in detention you know i'm over here being told i didn't do my homework and i'm like i want to chop wood and carry water i want to go to war i want to be scared i want to be challenged and so for me it was i was that would be the difference is that i would be hungry for all of that whereas the person sitting across from you today my body is a jackson pollock painting of scars crocodile bites tiger bites infections times that i've been almost crushed to death by elephants i've been hunted by the narco terrorists and at this point the responsibility of that kid got to see all the things he wanted to see we found the biggest anacondas i lived through the amazing adventures and that's great the person sitting across from you today is responsible for protecting millions of animals and my job is to explain to people that we that everyone reading this message or listening to this message has the chance to help the indigenous people save the amazon before we lose it forever and so that's the main difference is that at that age i was just i just wanted some swashbuckling adventure and now i found that adventure became meaning i found it along the way and then now i'm on a whole other journey now it's now it's can we bring it home now it's can we bring it home we achieved something that we thought was impossible and change the narrative of how it's done and i guess
Speaker 1this kind of brings us back to this question about the uncontacted tribes you said you and jj were talking about how you might go about saving the amazon was highlighting the uncontacted tribes in the amazon part of the mission
Speaker 2there no very much no that's a great question because what we started doing was we looked at this river basin and we said okay we we love this this one really wild river and now we said why why has this river been so wild you know so you think of the amazon as a tree of rivers you have the main amazon channel and then all these millions of branches and so the upper amazon the uppermost branches of the amazon rainforest those tip tip tops people are only just getting to them now you know the main amazon channel is a shipping port and then you have these huge tributaries going off of it and you can get in as far as iquitos with a steamship like you can go all the way through brazil thousands of miles and get all the way to iquitos peru to the almost the back end of the amazon i've been there and and it's beautiful we are at the southern edge in the tributaries down there there's one tributary what's a tributary a tributary is is an offshoot from a larger river so a stream is a tributary of a larger stream which goes into you know then eventually reach the hudson river and so this is a tiny little tributary and there we discovered is that the reason people hadn't developed this tributary the reason other indigenous communities hadn't formed was that for hundreds and hundreds of years this particular river had been protected by the violent mysterious mashko piro nomadic uncontacted tribes and that had kept it wild they were the original jungle keepers but by the time i got there they were sort of gone and they were gone and they were gone and they were gone and just a myth and so they were something that they said they lived really far up river past the last indigenous community and when i say indigenous community i mean people that we can talk to people that we can interface with that i can speak a little spanish too and they'll understand me
Speaker 1i think that's an important distinction yes because can you make that distinction between indigenous and these tribes yes
Speaker 2so within peru you have lima and and you know michelin star restaurants and all this amazing food and then you travel down to cusco you have chupichu and you have the andes and all of that incredible culture and then you go down to the jungle and that's a little bit like going to the back end of alaska that's where it's like you are very far away from la or new york like but it's the same country and out there you'll reach these communities where they are indigenous and so in the reserve that we currently protect as jungle keepers there's two indigenous communities there and we work with them to sort of support them because as these loggers and narco traffickers and gold miners come in they see them as as a mark they'll go in and say oh there's these helpless indigenous people how can we exploit them how can we get their trees their fish they'll go and take those things from them or they'll or they'll sell them something that's not worth what what they think it is and so we've been working with these indigenous communities to say do you want the loggers to come in and cut down all of your trees and they go no and they go but at the same time we need a little bit of gasoline because what if we're having a baby we have to get our daughter to a hospital in town and so we've been working with them to provide them with a little bit of gas and we've been working with them to provide them with a little bit of gas and we've been working with them to provide sustainable jobs as rangers protecting their own land it's such a simple solution whereas otherwise they would go and be loggers to get that cash and so we're working with these communities and now they're rangers and boat drivers and guides and handymen and they called us about a year ago and they said something incredible is happening and it's going to be dangerous but you are the directors and you're part of this family and you're part of this story and we need you here for this but the tribes are about to come in and they're going to come out of the forest and we were in town and we're what you know what we do now is you know we and we can explain this later but we raise money and we bring it to the amazon where we the local people have the opportunity to set aside huge acreage of the amazon to protect it we're changing the narrative of destruction where we just protect it before they get to it and so we were in town with jj who's now the director of this major organization and we're talking to our lawyers and we're in the office and we get this call that the tribe
Speaker 1is out the tribe is out
Speaker 2the tribe is out what does that mean it means the mythical uncontacted tribe that when i arrived in peru the president peru had been saying these are a myth they don't exist and it's just it's the boogeyman it's been made up as a story to scare the loggers so their existence was contested they were almost on the fringes of imagination could
Speaker 1we not have flown a plane over there or something is that you know this sounds like a dumb question but presumably we have satellites and we can zoom in
Speaker 2the bbc did do a piece where they were flying a plane and they were looking at an unconnected tribe from miles away and they were being very careful not to disturb them but there is a tribe in the rainforest that has no contact with the outside world and you can see these people bending and they're looking at the plane but the plane's not close enough to really scare them or to cause them any distress and so we have done that but then on our river out in the middle of nowhere where no one's heard of the bbc you just hear stories from loggers who've come down river from three weeks up river you can go for three weeks up the river and hit nothing there's nothing human it's like the last endless forest and so we're When the community called and they said, there's arrows on the beach, the tribe is coming out. It's the first time in 10 years that the tribe seems to be coming out of the jungle to make contact. And so they got the directors of jungle keepers up there. We had to rush to be there. They begged us to be there so that we could see it because they were worried that we wouldn't believe them. And so we got there and we went all night. And when you go up a river at night, we had to do a two-day boat journey in one night. And so the guy right there, the picture with the guy who has the scar on his forehead, that's Ignacio. That scar is because he was shot in the head by a seven-foot arrow while he was trying to make peaceful contact with the uncontacted tribes. He was trying to give them a gift and they got spooked and they scared and they shot him in the head. And he almost died from that. When we heard that this was happening, and he's now one of our best jungle keepers rangers, we said, can you do a two-day boat journey in one night? And he went, yes, sir. And he put on a headlamp and he got in the back of the boat. We took an open-top canoe and we drove from 6 p.m. until 9 a.m. the next day through the worst thunderstorm I've ever seen. I was on the front of the boat with a flashlight using the crocodile eyes, the caiman eyes on the side of the river to navigate because they shine, the eye shine comes back. The storm was so bad that we couldn't see anything. We couldn't see the side of the river and because of the light igniting the raindrops, you can't even see what's in front of you. So we were using the croc eyes to navigate where the edges of the river was. So I was spotting. And telling him which way to go. And he drove and we did that all night long. Got to the indigenous community and said, okay, so what's going on? And they said, oh, yeah, they left. Tribe's gone. The only thing that they had was that one guy the previous day had been shot by an arrow. And he had been fishing. And he had seen the tribes, so he said. And they had shot an arrow at him. The first thing they had done was shot one of these seven-foot arrows at him. And the way it had hit the boat ricocheted and then hit his thick leather belt and blunted the tip of the arrow. And he had the arrow. And so we said, so there are people here. And then a native anthropologist from another region showed up and he said, they know me as the grandfather. I can speak to these people. I speak a little bit of their language. And so we stayed another night, two days deep in the jungle. And the following morning we said, okay, we're getting out of here. There's obviously nothing. But, you know, stories and footprints and arrows. And we have important work to do back in town.
Speaker 1And did you believe them?
Speaker 2I've learned one thing working in the Amazon. Always believe the locals. Always. If they say it's there, they're not wrong. And that's part of the reason that I've gotten to go on these adventures. You know, when J.J. Tell told me, there's places you can go that are so wild that it's like the Galapagos. The animals don't know a human. But you have to go for days on foot to the topmost reaches of the river. To find this. Well, that's why I went on these solos. And so as a writer, that's what I do. Is try and take people on these adventures through the Amazon. And so when they said the tribe is coming, Ignacio, the guy who'd been shot in the head, he said, listen to me. He said, you're my boss, right? I said, yeah. He goes, I need to speak to you like a friend. I said, speak, speak, speak. And he said, they're coming. You'd be an idiot to leave. And so we posted up. We waited. How he knew? Yeah, I'm wondering how he knew. He just knew, man. They just know. It's like they can tell. And then, you know, I mean, these are guys who know when there's a jaguar close by by the sound of the birds. They know when a storm's coming before the storm is audible. You know, they have higher tuned senses than we do. And so he said, look, the tribe is coming. There's the arrow. They're in the region. He goes, and when they come this close, they generally, they want to talk. I said, but this is. And sure enough, you hear mosh go and everyone starts screaming. And it was just this moment. It was a moment of absolute panic where women were lifting babies and chickens are flying around and dogs. And we're in this tiny little indigenous community on the side of a river with hundreds and hundreds of miles of jungle around. And we run to the edge of this, you know, the edge of the river where this cliff is. And across the river, we see them coming towards us. And they're walking out of the jungle and they're naked from head to toe. They just have some string tied around their waists. Penises tied up to their bellies. They all have seven foot long bows and arrows and they're crouched over and they're looking at us. And we're standing there. And you go, you sort of like, you go, I just, I wanted to, I wanted to see this. And now I'm not so sure I want to be here because there are warriors coming out of the jungle and they're from a thousand years ago. So I asked the anthropologist, I said, they're like stone age people. And he goes, they don't have stones. He said, they're still in the bamboo age. He said, these people are living such a primitive lifestyle. They're hunter gatherers. And they've been isolated so deep in the jungle for so long. So many centuries that it's like a time capsule. So there was a thousand years between us. We were standing on either side of the river with a thousand years between us and this aperture into the history of what humankind used to look like. And these people came out holding their bows and arrows that they had made out of the jungle. And they held up their hands and they were talking to us across a river. And it was sort of shirts versus skins. We were just two tribes separated by a little bit of water. And they wanted to communicate.
Speaker 1With what language?
Speaker 2With their language. They, I mean, we don't even know really what to call them. For a while, they were calling them the Mashko Piro, which means the wild Piro people. And then more recently, and partly because of our encounter, they held up their hands. And the first thing they said was, Nomole, we are the brothers, brothers. And so then our side said the same thing. The anthropologist said, Nomole, brothers. And then this exchange began. And it's like, you know, I, as a Spanish speaker, when I've been in Italy, I can use my Spanish to kind of get through in Italian. And I feel like it's like that. The Yine people can speak to the Mashko Piro, and it's an approximate translation. And the first thing that they said after coming out of the jungle a thousand years late to civilization was, send us bananas. They said, send us food. And they demanded that we send them plantains as an offering. And our side said. And said, you put down your weapons. We will talk to you, but we do not want this to end violently. We want this to be peaceful. If you want to talk to us, put down your bow and arrows. Because a shotgun, a shotgun only goes how many meters? You know, it's not even going to go 100 meters, 50 meters, maybe. Buckshot. A longbow arrow is going to go 300 meters. It's going to go far.
Speaker 1And they're, needless to say, they're very good with those arrows.
Speaker 2They are very good with those arrows. These things will fly. And so, even standing on the other side of the river, we were not safe. And so, we were all standing behind trees. We were watching. Ignacio, who'd been shot before, was watching with the binoculars. And he's going, whenever you see them walking, he said, they let you see them. And then they clever girl you in the forest where there's one watching you from the shadows. And he would grab me by the shoulder and go, look, there's one. And you would just see this, you know, red face paint in the shadows of the forest. And he'd have the bow trained on us. And so, while some of them in the front were putting the bows down, there was others. Some of them in the shadows that were making sure that they still had support. But we asked the guys in the front to put down their arrows. The anthropologist got in the river and gave them an offering of bananas.
Speaker 1I think I have a video here of this.
Speaker 2Yeah. This is world first footage.
Speaker 1I'll let you, you know how to use an iPad, right?
Speaker 2There we go. Yeah. So, this is just a. Random moment from the earlier days. But this is that moment where everyone starts screaming, Mosh, go, and we're all running. And this is what I was talking about, where they are moving across the beach. And you can see the sort of the posture they're using there. I mean, he's got. They have their bows and arrows in hand. And then they showed up and see they're pointing. They were worried that our cameras were guns. And so, they were asking to put down the cameras. They were curious about various members of our tribe. And they were all talking at the same time. So, it was very difficult. Difficult to understand what they wanted.
Speaker 1What's he doing with his finger there? He's doing. This.
Speaker 2Yeah. I don't know. This is the moment that we gave them the bananas. And what's haunting about this is the desperation that you see on them where they're all rushing to get the bananas. And they're not necessarily taking them like they're going to share later. They're taking them like I get my bananas, you get your bananas. You see this. They're all rushing to get this little boatload. And these are people that don't have boats. And as they're doing this. They're all talking at the same time. It was like a flock of parrots. It was just a cacophony of sound. And they're all fighting over these plantains. And then once they get them, each person held their own. They have rope and plantains. And this interaction went on for several hours. And we negotiated with them. And this is just the footage. This is the footage that we're allowed to release right now. And this is them moving back off into the jungle. There's a lot more that happened. And again, that's where. That's why. That's why. We're releasing this now. I should say that. That's why we waited a while to release this footage. Because footage like this is incredibly sensitive for a number of reasons. A, you don't want people to think that we went out and contacted these people that want to be left alone. You also don't want to encourage other people to indulge their misconceptions. People go, oh, these are the last free people on earth. They live perfectly in balance with nature. No. People will go looking for them, whereas for hundreds of years, these people have asked for one thing and one thing only. to be left alone. And they've enforced that kind of like the Comanches with arrows. And on this day, they said, please give us food, please give us rope. And they had one other question. They said, how do we tell the bad guys from the good guys? And we said, what do you mean? Who are the bad guys? And they said, some of you shoot at us with the chichitsu, with the fire sticks, the guns. And we were going, who does that? We said, we are not the bad guys. And they said, no, you also, they said, we know you cut down our trees. They're speaking to all of us. There's no like, you know, white guy, brown guy, Peruvian, foreigners, none of that. It was just all of you outsiders. Stop cutting down our trees. Our trees are our gods. It was sort of like, you don't do that. And then when they left, just a few weeks ago, we learned that the narco traffickers view them as a threat. And there was actually a mass grave found of a similar clan. And so these people are being bought. Locked in by deforestation and hunted by narco traffickers and gold miners and loggers. And so I think that them coming out of the forest was their way of saying, hey, we're trying to get a read on what's going on in the outside world. Who is it? Who are the good guys? They don't know that Jungle Keepers is protecting the land that they live on. They've never heard of a spoon or the wheel or Jesus or World War II or the country of Peru. And so they're coming out with so many questions. And the only way to care for these people and to give them the rights that they deserve is to protect the forest they live in.
Speaker 1Do you know why some of them seem to be touching their nose?
Speaker 2It's funny. I didn't notice that. I think this is going to be your discovery to anthropology. I did not notice that, but it does. You see this. A lot of them are doing this.
Speaker 1Yeah. And the outfit. The outfit. What is this outfit? It looks like there's kind of rope tied around it. Yeah. Yeah. They're tied around their midriff with their penises out.
Speaker 2Yeah. The head of the penis is covered by rope. Oh, they've got the penis up into the rope. No, the head of the penis is up and protected. And that makes sense given the jungle where there's mosquitoes and bot flies and sand flies. That's a smart move. And then rope seems to be, I mean, what is it? It goes like fire, rope, ladders. I think it's like man's second invention. They are obsessed with rope. That's how they make their bow strings. That's how they make their arrows. That's how they. Lash things together to make the limited structures that they make. And some of what we know about them is, you know, we find their camps after they leave. So we know what they eat. They eat primarily turtles and monkeys. They don't fish. They don't have fish hooks.
Speaker 1They don't eat humans, do they?
Speaker 2They do not eat humans. They are not cannibal tribes.
Speaker 1That's a rumor people have talked about before. People have said.
Speaker 2Yeah, there's even a couple of versions of my voice in AI saying that on the internet, but it is not true.
Speaker 1And their haircuts, they all seem to be. I have this sort of mullet, sterile haircut from the 70s.
Speaker 2It seems like they all grab the front and just find a way to cut it. There might be like one guy with a machete who just does the haircuts. And for a lot of them, this is the first time they've seen a human. So actually, this was first contact. The anthropologist who came to the scene, who managed this interaction, he said he had met an uncontacted tribe before in the region. He said none of these were men that he'd met. And the other thing, is they're all men. The women were hidden in the forest. And while the men were making a distraction in front of us, the women were raiding the farm behind us. Raiding? Raiding the farm. Your farm? The indigenous people's farm. Our community's farm.
Speaker 1So the women went to steal while they were distracting you? That's right. And did you catch the women on tape?
Speaker 2No. No, no, no, no, no. Everyone was. We were all huddled up very, very close. I mean, this was an incredible encounter. But let me explain the prevailing emotion during this entire thing was fear on both sides. They were scared. We were scared. The indigenous people naturally have shotguns anyway. Everyone had their shotguns out. They all had. Some of them had put their bows on the beach, but they had archers waiting. And so everyone was sort of, you know, it was like, put down your guns and we can talk. But nobody really wanted to put down their guns.
Speaker 1And how do you know the women were stealing from your farm?
Speaker 2Because after this was all over and we went to the farm, everything had been pulled up. All the yucca, all the plantains, all the sugarcane, the entire farm was ruined.
Speaker 1How did you know it was the women?
Speaker 2The women in the village told me it was the women. They were like, oh, that was the women. Also, you see the smaller footprints. These men have wide, big men. They're from walking barefoot their whole lives. Their feet get ancho. They get really thick. And so, and I have jungle feet like that now, but these guys have almost duck feet at this point, like big. Fat calloused feet that get wider. You ever see a farmer's hands, but they just, they just grow
Speaker 1like that. They're all young as well. Where's, where are the older people?
Speaker 2We'd love to know. We don't know. There's some tribes in the Amazon where the elderly people have more permanent settlements. There's been rumors of some extreme tribes where the elderly people, if they can't keep up or just left to perish. But we saw people between the ages of 20 and 30 years old. And so, you know, I don't think anybody looks like they're in their fifties. So we left with more questions and answers. They, on that day, they did get a pot that they, they stole from, from, you know, the community, you know, they have their, their farm. And so there was also a machete at the farm. Somebody just whacked it into a log. And so as they were leaving, one of the best things that we caught on video that we have, we're not able to share yet is that one of these guys, and this was at the end after, while everybody was going home, they just, you know, the anthropologist held up his hands and he said, you know, "No mole, brothers, go in peace." And these guys actually asked about me. I was the only person there with a big beard. And they said, "There's that one." They said, "Show us that one." And so I came forward, I stood at the edge of the river, which my heart was pounding. And the anthropologist said, he said, "Hold up your hands, show them that you don't mean any harm." I held up my hands like this, and they held up their hands and they sang. They said, "No mole." They knew that I wasn't from the indigenous community. And that was an incredible moment of, we couldn't communicate, but it was just sort of that basic, "I acknowledge you." And they said, "I acknowledge you." And we just had this thing across the river in about a thousand years and just, and then that was it. And as they left, you know, one of the guys had a machete and he was, he showed it to us over his shoulder like this. And one of my friends was going, "Oi," you know, in the local language, he was saying, "Put down the machete, leave the machete." And the guy just smiled and looked at us like, "Yeah, come and get it. Come and get it." And then just as they left, one of the warriors walked out to the beach, put an arrow on the string, smiled at us and just shot it. It was like, "Ha." Up into the air. Just at us, in general, just to spook us. And then they all turned and left. You know, so they have a sense of humor. We saw them smile. You know, we exchanged a little bit of that with them as well.
Speaker 1They look cold.
Speaker 2They are cold. I mean, it's, it's, it's 95 degrees on that day. The other thing is, it was cool as they're coming. If you go to the part where they're coming across the beach, there was millions of butterflies. That beach was covered in just millions of butterflies. And so as these people are walking out, the butterflies are just swarming around. And go back to the beginning, the, that right there. If you just notice, you don't notice it at first, but as they're moving, look at that. The world is swirling with lepidopter in color. It's just, just absolute insanity how, how beautiful this scene was. And I mean, when you see this, you know, if a, if a Tyrannosaurus rex walked out behind them, I wouldn't have been surprised. It was such a strange, literally unbelievable thing to see because you know, these, these literally are the last people on earth that are still living in this way where society, we have planes, trains, automobiles, iPhones, all of this technology we're talking about going to other planets, they don't have metal, even a knife, unless they get it from someone else. And so it's just, it's just an incredible, you know, the other thing is they do have medicinal technologies. They're able to stay infection-free living in the tropical wet jungle. That's pretty incredible because they're, they're virtually naked. I mean, essentially naked. I think that's, that's how they carry their rope. I don't think that's so much of clothing as we need rope and that's how we carry it. It's very, it's very, very complicated because the loggers shoot at them. The Narcos shoot at them. People shouldn't be getting into it. It's very, it's very difficult to get into the places that they live. And if you think about in the last few centuries, how many indigenous cultures have been annihilated by the outside world coming in these, there's no shortage of these stories. And in this particular case, in 2026, when we have the communication and people are able to hear this story, this is why we're releasing this footage because the only hope these people have is if we protect them, they can't come on a podcast, they can't address the United Nations. They can't write a petition. The only hope they have is if we are able to protect the forest that they live in. That's it. And that's why we've released this footage now, because for a long time we said we can't release it. We said, what if, what if crazy hippie people go down there thinking that these are the last free people and they want to go live with them? That will kill them. The outside pathogens that you and I carry on us every day, the common cold that we have immunity to could wipe out an entire tribe.
Speaker 1What you just listened to was is the most replayed moment from a previous episode. want to listen to that full episode, I've linked it down below. Check the description. Thank you.
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