“Most People Are Broke!” Lamborghini Salesman Reveals Who ACTUALLY Buys Their Cars! | Ed Bolian

I have found that buying the worst examples of the coolest cars on earth tends to give me the opportunity to let them go up in value. What's the most you've lost on a car? I've never lost money on a car. It never gets old. I've probably spent about a million dollars on cars. The current collection's probably worth something like seven and a half or so. Wow. The cheapest way to buy a car isn't to pay the least amount of money. Everyone can afford to own a car that goes up in value. How do you effectively negotiate? I am fully committed to this offer, and if it blows up on the way past your mailbox, it's my problem. So who do you think of all the car YouTubers is the worst with money? Well, there's one that comes to mind. Tyler is making terrible decisions, so we don't have to. If you have a really tiny piece, what's the best car that will make it appear bigger? Will. Ed Bullion, thank you so much for coming on the Ice Coffee Hour. It's great to be back, or I get to be in your house this time, rather than you coming to mine. So I've really been looking forward to this, because you've been correct about nearly every single car that you've predicted is going to be going up in value. We're talking Lamborghinis, gated Murcielagos, Bugatti. Your Spyker, you just told me, that you doubled your money on that one, which is incredible. Your collection, so far, to my knowledge, has made millions of dollars, and I'm curious how much money, so far, you've made buying these exotic cars. You know, it's hard to say, because there's a lot of different variables, because I worked in the industry, and so there's a lot of flips that are kind of unrealized. But I suppose, in the last 20 years, I think I probably spent about a million dollars cumulatively on cars that became combined with loans and trades and things like that. And I guess the current collection, it's probably worth something like seven and a half or so. Wow. Now, there's still some debt to handle related to that, but it certainly has gone in the right direction and generated a lot of equity. And, you know, it's not like I can see the future, but there are patterns, right? And so that's really what the industry sort of demands and invites, is some analysis of what works, what doesn't, and what the recipe sort of becomes. So have you now made more money on YouTube or investing in cars? Well, if I were to totally go, "No, liquid prize," I guess it's cars. That is crazy, because I feel like every single person we have on this podcast makes more from YouTube than their other thing that they're doing or known for. Well, one aspect that's very critical to understand is that my content on VinWiki is not mostly me. I'm only maybe 10% of the content, and I am not forced to buy a lot more cars than I naturally would for the sake of content. So, you know, Stradman is always buying, building, modifying, selling, perfecting, building like his version. He's making terrible decisions, so we don't have to. Freddie is in these infinite projects. And so all of those models work really well for content, but sometimes they don't require or even allow cars that go up in value. And so the sustainability of VinWiki, keeping it very lean as a business, works because I'm not as beholden to what the cars are to make the content. The stories, you know, happened years, decades ago in many cases, and most of them, again, aren't about me or my cars. And so that's been great. Because I've been able to funnel a lot of the money into the cars, which I would have done with however the money comes in. But then I end up at, you know, fortunately, a pretty good position. So one of the cars you recently purchased I saw was that red Bugatti. It is gorgeous. How expensive is a car? And most importantly, how expensive is that car to maintain? Also, you always say "B-U-G-A-T-T-Y." You always say "B-U-G-A-T-T-Y." What color is your Bugatti? You didn't hear that. Okay. How do you say it? How are you supposed to say it? The people from the factory just say "Bugatti." "Boo." It's "Bugatti." Dude, we've literally had this conversation before on the podcast. And "Veyron" is hard as well because if you think about that as a French name, it would just be "Veyron." But we're not going to say that because everybody would slap you in your own face. And so I think that it's "Bugatti Veyron" seems to be the best way to say it. But anything works. So it's really "Boo-Gotty." Yeah. Like everyone says it aside from you. Oh, gosh. It's really that way. It sounds improper to say it. We'll allow it. "Bugatti." Okay, whatever. And so I bought it about two years ago now for $1.45 million. And the car was the Frankfurt Motor Show car. And then it was owned by Birdman of Cash Money Records. And he gave it to Justin Bieber. Bieber gave it back. It got repossessed. The bank sold it to Floyd Mayweather. He had delivered here in Vegas right before the Conor McGregor fight. And then it was sold to Lil Uzi Vert and then a drug dealer in Miami and then me. And so I have thoroughly enjoyed it. I've put about, I don't know, 15,000, 16,000 miles. On it over the course of those two years, which is wildly irresponsible from a value maintenance perspective, but I am loving it. The reason that it was especially cheap in that moment relative to the coupes, and I know it's ridiculous to say that $1.5 million is cheap, but they had gone down about $1 million because there's only 14 Bugatti Veyron Grand Sports, which is the removable roof, 1,000 horsepower variant in the US. And there's 58 worldwide. And so of those 14 US cars. Six of them transacted inside of a year, which is grossly beyond the number of transactions that can just crash a market. And so since they were long on the, you know, advertised everywhere, it was easier to lowball them. And so I was able to get a really, really good deal. And once all of that inventory was absorbed into homes where they were going to stay for a while, that kind of allows them to return to the normal. Usually the open roof cars are about a million dollars more than the hoops. And so one of these just sold for, I guess, 3.5 million. Is your car worth more because Justin Bieber owned it? It's very hard to say because, you know, most celebrities and entertainers, hip hop artists, anybody like that, they don't have a reputation of taking good care of things. And so that would generally be a detraction. It is novel and it is interesting from like a cars and coffee story perspective. And so initially, no, but eventually, yes. So people are scared of that. But then once the cars are demonstrated to be okay. Then the value can go back up because everybody's less worried about what might have happened. So I live car wise in the world between like totally unacceptable and okay. That's profitable. Okay to good is somewhat profitable. Good to perfect. You lose money and perfect to like concord. Everything is you're just in it for the recreation of it. You're losing tons and tons of money. And so I have found that buying the worst examples of the coolest cars on earth tends to give me the opportunity to let them go up in value. And that's where it's all come from. So how do you maintain the car cheaply? The best thing that you can actually do is drive it. And what I have found is that when I can put five to 10,000 miles on a bad car, it at least starts to validate what it really needs versus what it can probably not have to worry about. And it can give me the opportunity to cosmetically and mechanically recondition the car enough. And so since I bought it, I have spent maybe $50. To $60,000 on three oil changes, some CV boots, various sensors and things like that just throws a bunch of errors. This morning I was taking my kid to school in it and it threw every error, but that was just because it was mad because I've been driving my cheap Bentley too much lately. But generally, yeah, it hasn't been that bad. Now, if you go perfectly by the book, it's about 20 to 25,000 for an annual service, about 40, 50,000 for a set of tires. They have just released a. A retrofit set of wheels that accommodate sheer own size tires, which I had already done through some fake Chinese wheels that I got for $500 each. And so I have gotten it pretty quickly into a form that it is reliable for long trips. I drove it back from Vegas last year. I've driven it to Miami a bunch of times. I've driven it out to Hilton Head and back. So I just drove it to Connecticut and back. So most of the miles are actually on really long trips. Should Graham drive his Ford GT more? It's so funny. We were talking about this in the car from the airport. So Graham has a Ford GT. And how long have you owned it? Five years. Okay. And what'd you pay for it? $306,000. And how many miles are on it? $7,700. Okay. So a 5,000 to 10,000 mile Ford GT, and yours is white, yeah? Blue stripes. Is $750,000, give or take. Now, and the Ford GT market is one of the most unique, exotic, or supercar markets for a variety of reasons. One is there are a lot more of them than most cars that have had that kind of long life. There are a lot more long-term value trajectory. Also, there are very few logical departure cars, and so it's not like this modern, you know, M3, GT3 RS, SVJ, Pagani, that everybody that's young watching TikTok wants to be their, like, life history in cars. When you have a Ford GT, generally people like it because they're very maintainable, they're very American, they're very simple, but they're very iconic, very cool, all the accolades that we'd like for a car to be. Manual, fast, makes a great noise. There's a lot of things to love about a Ford GT, but people who have them aren't, like, waiting for the chance to go out and buy a V12 Lamborghini or a mid-engine V8 Ferrari. They chose to buy the Ford GT, and so they're not always tempted to trade it, so they're not shopping them all the time. They're also generally slightly older, and they're very disciplined in their ownership. The other thing that's happened is that because there is a constant engagement in that market, they have gone up very incrementally. rather than these huge jumps. So over the last six to 12 months, a lot of Ferraris with limited explanation have doubled or tripled in value. In those cases, everybody has to reevaluate like, am I going to own this car for so much more today than I paid a few years ago? And the answer for most of them is no, I'm ready to take that money and put it into whatever it can also represent. 4GT guys don't have that because they have never just doubled in value in a short amount of time. They go up 10, 15% a year. And that causes that kind of question. Should he drive it? Because if you've got a car that you paid 300 grand for and it's worth three quarters of a million dollars, well, that's a different thing. That is a different unit of money. And so the valid question is, well, I am rebuying the car every year as all these new results print. So should I just hold on to it as that store of value as opposed to the recreation you could have out of driving it? That's really interesting because that's almost identical to what you're talking about. So I think that's a good question. One of the best investors we've ever had on the podcast says, Chris Camillo, he says your portfolio that you check your account every morning and all the stocks that appear there, that portfolio that you have, you choose to buy every single day. And you need to reflect every morning, if you had the amount of money that you have invested, would you pick this exact distribution and composition of stock? And so you're saying your approach to investing in cars is quite literally investing in cars. It's the exact same thing. Well, it shifts. Most of the time, I hope people are buying cars because it's the car they really want to own, because there's nearly no example of any car that has beaten the S&P 500 for more than a decade. And generally, that'll only be a short window of time where they do double, triple in value. And then there's negligible gains for a very, very long period of time. So you need to own something like that because you really, really do love it. Otherwise, as you've talked about, simplifying your life, into very standard investments that are easy to monitor, easy to understand, easy to control, is the path to peace. But cars are the path to fun. And so there's a lot to be said for having some allocation of money into cars. And that's one of the things that we are definitely seeing in certain segments of the market. We're seeing an explosion of value, a lot like, but a bit different from what we saw from 2021 to 2023. In the wake of COVID, there was a lot of cash in the market. There were also new car shortages. And there was just a lot of recreational enthusiasm, people picking up different hobbies, embracing, going on rallies, or long road trips, or drives, or tracking, or whatever they want to do with their cars. And so we saw a significant rise in the value of all interesting cars. What we've seen over the last, let's say, 24 months is a very huge jump in the prices of proper rare stuff. Really, really good collector cars. 4GTs are, in there, but also Carrera GTs, all the V12 Lamborghinis, most of the numbered rare Ferraris, certainly things that are manual transmission, mechanically simple, easy to long-term maintain, but also even in some of these really rare hybridized, more modern cars, P1, 918, LaFerrari, and things like that. And so that's been a little bit hard to understand because there hasn't been a more macroeconomic condition that seems to cause it. We just see these cars going up in value because clearly people are building collections. And collections, more modern supercars, these cars aren't as old as people who were collecting muscle cars or pre-war significant cars would really have focused on. So it's interesting the time window in which these are going up. And what we have seen is I think there's like 1,800 US-based family offices that represent more than $100 million. And so a lot of these family offices are allowing younger generations to have a car portfolio. And as long as the cars meet certain reasonable criteria of rarity and significance and things like that, they're going to be able to have a car portfolio. They kind of get to go into one of these dealers with a gone in 60 seconds looking shopping list and just say, I want one of everything. And they do that. Like every day, if you own like curated in Miami, he'll have a 24-year-old kid come in with a list of $30 million worth of cars that wants it right now. And is that for an investment? Like his family office says, hey, we're going to allocate you $30 million, go and build us a car portfolio that might go up in value 3% to 8% a year. Something like that. I'm sure that they aren't tasked with the deployment there, but they're saying, we believe that this source of cars is probably responsible. And we don't mind you spending this amount of money on cars from them. And I mean, it's an amazing reputation to have for some of these sellers of cars, brokers of cars, dealers of cars, but that seems to be what is happening. And then when you overlay that with just infinite more debt available today, if you choose to scale your collection with leverage and which can obviously magnify the gains. Hugely like anything, but when you're, you know, you're not talking about two, three to one. I mean, you can talk 10 to one leverage in a traditional exotic car loan. So what cars do you have in your collection right now? So I've got the Bugatti of 2012 Veyron Grand Sport. I've got two Lamborghini Murcielago LP640s. I would say that's my favorite car. And I've been telling everybody that they're going to go up in value for 12 years now. So it's not as though it just, you do it. And then the next day, the internet recognizes it. Like I have sold so many people that I believe in these cars. And I've voted with my checkbook an awful lot and my credit score. And I love them. I think they're just the quintessential supercar and being big and crazy and loud and dramatic, but also very useful, maintainable. And so I've got an 07 manual LP640 Coupe, the highest mileage one in the world. And I've got an 09 LP640 manual Roadster, also the highest mileage one in the world. And the one with the most accidents. How many miles do they have on them? 62 on the Coupe, 25 on the Roadster. That's your entire collection. Oh, I've got, no, it's not. I'm sorry. It keeps going. It's about the same. Listen. I've also got the 1998 Diablo SV that was sold out of the Victoria's Secret Christmas catalog. I just sold my Spiker. I've got a cheap Bentley. I've got a cheap McLaren project. We haven't talked about on my, on Venwiki yet, but it's coming. I've got an off-road Cayenne. My wife's got a Mercedes SUV. Oh, and I, I just bought another thing out of Europe and I won't say what that is yet, but it's, it's not that expensive, but it is awesome. So if you had $7 million cash today, would you buy the exact same portfolio of cars you currently own? Now there's a state. In every single side hustle where the business bank account is simply just your personal Venmo. And the thing is that works until it doesn't. The moment something goes wrong, there is nothing separating your business from your personal savings. That's exactly why we've partnered with Northwest Registered Agent. For $39 plus state fees, they form your LLC and make sure you're actually protected. You get your state formation documents, basic operating agreement with a membership certificate and an initial resolution document for opening up a bank account. All of the paperwork needed to make your company official. And once you are an LLC, your personal assets are generally kept separate from whatever happens to the business. Plus Northwest gives you your first domain or website for free and anyone can sign up. They'll even cover the renewal when your domain comes up. So your business looks like a real company forever. And Northwest puts their own address in your filing instead of yours. So your home address never goes on the public record. So if you've been running your business out of your personal accounts for too long, it is time to fix that. Head to northwestregisteredagent.com today to get started. That is a great question. And it is exactly the right question to ask. And it is, yes, this is the stuff that I want. Fortunately, most of my cars are fairly liquid. And so, you know, when I look at asset distribution and net worth, would I like to have that much in cars? Probably not. That would be irresponsible. And I saw you got a little end up Dave Ramsey over there that he would scorn me for such things, but it does tend to make the content world go round. And so, but in terms of the cars, yeah, it's what I like. What about you? So if your Ford GT is worth $750,000 and all of your other cars that combined, let's just say like $850,000, would you pick this exact same portfolio? Probably not. What would you pick? And I had to buy, I probably wouldn't buy any cars. I'd be investing in index funds, real estate. I'm stuck with the cars because they're- I bought them cheap. And, you know, if I sell, I'm going to have to pay tax on the gain. So I'm kind of locked into it. And they're going up in value. So like, I don't want to take a tax hit. I don't need to roll it over into something else. And it stays allocated in cars. But I justify it now because I have the car in the background of every single one of my videos. So it's a bit of a prop. If it was just sitting in a garage, I would have probably sold it. It's not exactly a 1031 exchange for cars, but you can trade them. And generally it's, this may be, I'm not an accountant, but you don't necessarily need to realize the gain as long as they're, you know, same transactions, especially inside of a dealership. For the same reason that the numbers don't, when there's trades, the numbers don't have to reflect what actually is happening. That happens all the time to over-allow, to cover loan equity or negative equity. So let's say you wanted a different $750,000 car, like a 430 Scuderia, which has also doubled or tripled in value recently. You could trade them on paper at, you know, $800,000 and that shows no gain. And then they can ACV the car up on their side. Yeah. What would you buy? The only car, if you said I had to get something else, I would trade my car for either a higher mileage heritage edition or GT, or what I would do is trade my car for a no stripe for GT, because I believe the no stripe cars are highly undervalued. Even if I got a no stripe car with 12,000 miles on it, slightly higher miles or something like that. I think the no, No striped cars are going to hit a million dollars before anything. else but you wouldn't you wouldn't want to have any sort of supercar no i think nothing is as good as the ford gt well in that case you should definitely drive it because realistically the amount of miles that you could possibly put on the car even if you do break through 8 10 15 that's 10 it's 10 i'm afraid of it's 10 i'm afraid of but then i don't want to crack 9 because when you're at 9 then everyone's like oh i see what you're doing oh yeah you're at 92 okay i see the game you've been playing so and i know i'm going to keep driving it a little bit so how many miles are you at right now 77 so i'm going to hit 8 in my ownership uh like 74 so here's what's going to happen so we are going so generally i accumulate too many cars and then i want to sell them and it's really inconvenient to try to sell them a bunch of cars just because of the conversations and the access and everything like that so i sell them all in auctions on site so like last year i sold six cars in one week on cars and bids and so we're going to do that again uh in november on cars and bids but rather than being all ed cars they're going to be just vin wiki story cars and one of the ones that we're going to sell is when we pulled out of a barn it's an 06 tungsten for gt and it's got a bunch of miles on it uh and it is going to be cheap as one could possibly be still more than you paid for yours but you should buy it and and just go put 10 000 miles on it that will have zero impact on the value decide then how much you want to own it and then either keep that one and sell the white one or sell it for what you paid for it oh it sounds like a it just sounds like a hassle i don't want another driving car not not really so what do you enjoy cars for i like to look at them to me they're like it's like a piece of art it's like it's like a sculpture for posters around here yeah but but a car for me is like it's a it's a work of just art i love like sitting in the car i love looking at the engine of it i like the startup i get anxious about what there's there's now so much value in the cars that if something goes wrong on it or someone hits me like i i'm more than insured but i don't want to deal with it it's just it's i i breathe a sigh of relief when i pull my car back into the garage turn off the the garage goes down i'm like good car safe how would you save money on insurance if you want to really minimize your cost uh of all the things to save money on i would strongly recommend not insurance uh the there are collector car policies that are massively cheaper and so if you can qualify for those based on the areas that you live in and the way you use the cars and the how you use the cars and the way you use the cars and the way you use the cars and the way you use about fifteen to twenty thousand dollars a month or sorry a year on insurance uh and which is nothing relative to the value of all the cars but that that's because they know i can only crash one at a time and so um and it doesn't specifically exclude my family uh my wife from driving it but she's not going to go drive them she's welcome to but that she curbs come out of nowhere so if someone wants to then look rich for cheap what's the coolest car and while we're on the topic of taking care of yourself it's also really important to think about the people who depend on you i think a lot about how much goes into building financial security and making sure the people i care about are taken care of is a big part of that yeah it's something nobody really wants to think about but getting a plan in place is actually way easier than you would think with our partner ethos they make getting life insurance incredibly simple so you can make sure the people who depend on you are taken care of in case something happens look i understand life insurance is one of those things that's really easy to keep putting off indefinitely 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and rates may vary goodbye i mean generally the the easy answer is the cars that depreciate like crazy your maseratis your aston martin's things like that the reality is and this is the same way that you would avoid the wrong stigma of the car that you show up in is have a good story about it don't just go out chasing the most interesting thing that like you think gets the most clicks or views have something that really resonates with you about what the car is or what's rare about it or significant about it or unique about it and that way like and those cars tend to depreciate a lot less because they're usually a cheapest way to do it the cheapest way to buy a car isn't to pay the least amount of money the cheapest way to own a car is to have the equity position reflect something positive when you're done with it so it doesn't really matter what you pay if it's going to go up in value everyone can afford to own a car that goes up in value and so the the the best way to look like you know a baller on a budget is to buy something that's going the right way in value because of the factors that tend to make that happen what car if someone has it just screams that they're broke uh generally anything like i see people have brand new cars like if you drove up in a brand new escalade electric car like i know it's expensive but like the amount of money that that's costing is just unconscionable and i have a car that needs fifty thousand dollar tires and i was and i think those people are just so that's that's saying that they they look so rich to me i mean people that are broke i i don't know that chrysler 300 well that's fair i mean just but i i don't know that we need to necessarily stigmatize that i would say that there are cars that scream irresponsible we all talk about the way that we love cars and the way i love cars is very different than the way that you love cars and the fact that you love your current car in its state with its mileage but it's so easy to be critical of that and the audience will when you say that you've owned the car for five years and put 300 miles on it they're gonna be like you but you're not wrong whatever you mean you're not wrong when you say that you love cars you're right and just because my brand of loving cars is different than yours doesn't make me more right it only makes me more right for me and so it's so easy to see a car that is stanced out to the point that it can't move or a truck that is pointed to the sky so you can't see what you're about to run into or an instagram tag on your you know quarter window and think that's dumb and maybe it is for you but like i just don't know what was emceeing a an australian car show these guys that import holdens into the u.s i don't particularly like these cars i don't relate to these cars i don't understand the economics of these cars but the community of these people is unbelievable and when we think about the loneliness epidemic in america and the world at large and the reality is that you could buy a marketplace three thousand dollar 300c put a stupid wrap on it put your instagram handle on it and go you know cruise around anywhere and make a bunch of friends that are in your same socioeconomic situation have your same free time or complaining about the same kind of things and dealing with the same problems you are going to make friends for less money than almost any hobby in the world and the opportunity to just go out and make a questionable decision on a car and then meet people tomorrow to me is one of the coolest things about the car world and it won't you're not going to do that and come hang out with me or you or anybody different but you can target those kind of people the same way that you could if you buy a track car and go to track days or you go drive the same mountain roads or you go to cars and coffee or you join the corvette club and you know get your jean shorts and your white polo shirt and your new balances like they whatever it is that is kind of the standard issue expression of that niche of automotive culture is one of the things that the most powerful social tools that i've ever seen the people within those groups are having an experience that is desirable and that needs to be fostered and available and it is so easy to get trapped in your you know closed loop screen world ai therapy you know just existence where you think there's no opportunity for me to go out there and have a different experience next weekend than i had this weekend i'm trying to figure out how to do that and i'm trying to figure out how to do that trapped and you're not because there is this way and a million other ways to go out there and experience the world in a much more interesting fashion and i think it behooves people to hear like huh that is a way that this is happening that's different than just going out and meeting somebody in a chat room what's the best car to get girls well where are we going for sushi tonight i guess the uh g-wagon the girls do love a g-wagon they love a g-wagon i thought it would be a range rovers too they do my wife's had three of them and i so i I literally started dating the girl that would become my wife the same week that I incorporated my rental car company out of my dorm room and bought a Gallardo. And so I have never used the cars in that form because that was the last first date that I went on. But I, uh, I would say that, you know, the, the brightly colored Lambos and things like that don't tend to work, but the bigger issue is like actually getting girls to even tolerate them, to be honest. And when I was selling cars at Lamborghini Atlanta, that was a huge thing. Like guys would come in like, how do I make my wife not hate the amount of money that I am spending on these cars? And you know, the thing that I always said is let them drive them, go somewhere where they're going to be very safe, where it's on a highway, wide open, good visibility, easy access, no lights, no turning, no curbs, no nothing. Because the reason they don't like them is that they think that if they engage with them, ruin them for you. If your wife took your Ford GT out and curbed the wheel, that would be an incident. And whereas if you took her up to a nice mountain road and said, look, here's how the thing works. I just want you to experience why I like it for five miles. And if you say, I want to pull over and get out after, I'm going to be perfectly happy, but we're going to put you in a situation where it's very easy. And I promise they'll love it. The cars are lovely. The first car my wife had driven was the $26,000 McLaren. In a long, long time, she's driven a lot of the cars, but she doesn't generally like it. And she loved it. She didn't know how the doors work. She got stuck in the car. Her friends had to call me, but it was okay. And she didn't run into anything. And I think that if you can create those kinds of opportunities, that's what girls love is being brought into this thing that's fun in a way that they can sort of dip their toe in and experience. What car suggests that you're secretly wealthy? And really quick, I got to say that AI is not just a thing. 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And right now it is yours absolutely free. Inside, you'll discover how AI could reshape work across your entire organization and how to position your business to prosper from it. So if your business revenues are at least in the seven figures, get our free business guide, aligning for the agentic era, how AI is changing everyday work at NetSuite.com slash iced. Again, that is NetSuite.com slash iced, or just click the link down below in the description. The guide is free to you at NetSuite.com slash iced. Once again, that is NetSuite.com slash iced. So guys, it has been over seven years since I first started working with Graham for free, by the way. And since then I have invested, I kid you not, almost every single dollar that I've earned, which has let me buy my first house, including this warehouse that we're sitting in right now. And I've been working with Graham for the last seven years. And I've been working with But here's what nobody tells you. 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So when you look for cars that you feel are undervalued, that will be going up in price, most likely in the next few years, what set of criteria do you look for? So the biggest criteria is always the buying power of the people who thought it was the coolest thing in the world when they were late teenagers. So that means that 15 to 20 years later, is the ideal window for the people that had them on posters to start putting them in their garage. So that is usually the inflection point. We're seeing that a little earlier now for a lot of factors, but generally speaking, that's what I would have said. You know, my goal in general car ownership was always to avoid depreciation. And I used to say the best way to do that is to look like you won the lottery 10 years ago. And if you look like MTV Cribs 10 years ago, your cars are not going to go down in value. They may break. All the time, but they will not go down in value. And so that was the way that I started to build equity to be able to flip up, trade up and make some money. When I was growing up, I loved cars, like loved cars. And then I got a little older and I started to work a little bit more and I started playing more pickleball. My passions went elsewhere. But this last week, I had a dream that I was driving a McLaren and I woke up and I wanted one so badly. And I have never like, at least in the past, since I've been in the car industry, I've never had a dream that I was driving a McLaren. And since I could afford a nice car, I haven't wanted one really that bad. Like, I thought it would be cool to have a Gallardo or some sort of like cheaper supercar because like Graham says, owning a supercar in your 20s is cooler than your 30s. That's his opinion, not mine. Yeah, that's what I told him. I said, if you're going to do it, your 20s, it's unlike anything else. When you're 30, less special. So I kind of sat on that and I'm like, okay, the only problem that I have is I do think that it is very like douchey to be driving, especially if you're in your 20s. And I'm like, okay, I'm going to drive a McLaren. And I'm like, okay, I'm going to drive a McLaren or like some sort of like supercar. I just don't, it depends on the color. That's what I think. That is a factor. And there's also ways to do it right. You know, one of the myths that social media and content creation, you know, puts forward is that you need the biggest, baddest, greatest, coolest thing. So if you want a McLaren, it's got to be a 765 LT or whatever it is. No, it doesn't. It can be anything. And they, they exist. I bought one for $26,000 the other day, a purple. The other day? It's a McLaren? Yeah, it was a 2017 McLaren GT, a 570 GT. So the smaller GT. And I bought, I had to buy nine cars out of this collection, but when it all netted out, it was 26,000 bucks for this purple car. And it was great. I drove it around, my 11 year old drove it around the neighborhood. It was fun. Wait a second. Now, $26,000 for a McLaren. It was in a flood, but it drove? I sold it for 75 grand and the engine blew up 1200 miles later. But he tuned it overly. Don't buy a tuned McLaren. Wait a second. So you're saying you could have sold Jack a McLaren for 70 something thousand dollars? Correct. Yeah. Yeah. Well, if you happen to find another cheap McLaren, like I, I've never been the type to think that I was going to actually buy one. But if the net cost after, let's say three to five years, let's say I buy like a 650 S, which is what Graham thinks. I'm going to buy a McLaren. I should buy. Yep. Maybe after three, four years, it could only cost me like 30,000 bucks. I think less than that. That's a comfortable downside given that the car is already 11 years old. Yeah. Um, and so like I said, look like you won lottery 10 years ago. You probably will experience no depreciation costs. Now they're, like I said, when I've said it earlier, it might break and they do break and they can be very expensive. So the risk of having $30,000 in repair costs is much higher than the risk of having $30,000 in depreciation. But it's cheaper to own than just about anything new. Do you agree with the 650 S you think that's a, that's a good car. It's reliable enough. Absolutely. Yeah. They were so good. I sold them new, uh, McLaren Atlanta, uh, would work there. And so I, I love them. 12 C's are a little spotty later ones, 13th, 14th. We're running one at Barrett Jackson. I am going to be repping it and making a video about it tomorrow. It's a 2013, 12 C that sold last year or at Jackson, Las Vegas for 115 grand. But, you know, probably do a little less than that. So what cars today are on people's posters that you think 10 years from now will be collectible. So that was part of the reason why I stretched so hard to buy the Bugatti because, you know, people, my age, I'm 40 grew up dreaming about Ferraris and Lamborghinis because they were much more rare. They didn't produce as many cars. And so that's why those are the cars that have continued to go up a lot. The people that are younger than me dreamt about hyper cars. And so I believe that they aspire the way that I aspired to having a to have Bugatti, Pagani, Koenigsegg and then the hypercars from, you know, McLaren. and P1, Porsche 918, LaFerrari, and things like that. So I think that those cars are the ones that have nearly limitless upside in the way that Mercedes have 10Xed over the last decade. And so, I think that's real. So why don't you think they've gone up in value more than, I'm talking like Pagani, Koenigsegg, because it seems like it's really just those two that are kind of etching up a little bit. Well, they have gone up a little bit more predictably. The anomalies have been the less rare cars, really, in the last six months. We've seen this explosion of value in the special 911s that aren't actually that rare, and the mid-engine V8 Ferraris, 360, 430, 458, 488, F8, as well as F12, 812. They've all just doubled in value. And so, I think that when you look at the proper rare, proper significant stuff, they haven't moved quite so much, which I think is interesting, but they're just rare enough they don't transact. So it's not like one sells yesterday on Bring a Trailer, and then everybody on AutoTrader just raises their prices so abruptly. It's a different situation where they sell at Monterey auctions, and those were all very, very successful. They sold $770 million worth of cars. So let's say I want to proceed with buying this McLaren. I don't have that kind of cash sitting around. I need to apply for a loan. What are the actual calculations behind what kind of car someone can afford? It's interesting because a high percentage of these cars actually are financed. And there are different sort of seasons of how easy it is to do. And right now, it is quite easy to get loans. Now, the interest rates right now are a little bit higher. You're probably going to pay 6.5% to 8.5% on a used car loan for something that's more than five years old. Also, they generally don't do branded title cars, so no salvaged titles. So like my $26,000 McLaren was not a financeable asset, but that's one of the reasons why it was extra cheap. But the easiest way to look at what it takes is to look at a loan application. So ideally, you're going to have a credit score over 740. If it's anything beyond that, it doesn't actually help anymore. And you'll have comparable credit where you're not increasing beyond 50%. So if you want to get a $75,000 loan, you need to have had a $50,000 loan. And generally, you'll need to prove, have verifiable income that is beyond the loan amount. So it's different than the way debt to income is calculated on a real estate purchase or something like that. And then terms can vary from anywhere from three years up to 12 and even 15 years on some much more expensive cars. And then they'll want the loan to value to be between 60 and 80%, so at least 20% down. Now, obviously, very few loan applications line up perfectly with all of those. And so you can sort of make up for one by doing better in the other. So if you have a higher better comparable credit or more money down, you can overcome having a shortcoming in the other criteria. I remember something crazy, by the way. When I was 24, I wanted to buy this Lotus Exige S240. And it was a gorgeous car. I saw it immediately, had to have it. And I had never had a car loan before. And so I thought, oh, this would be easy. I'm just going to put like $20,000 down just finance, because I wanted to like both build my credit, but also it wasn't that expensive. to finance back then. I think this was like 2013 or 14. And so I applied, I got denied, which is crazy because they said that I never had a car loan of this caliber before. And they had told me instead, if I had gotten a loan for like a Miata or a Honda S2000, I could work my way up. And then the dealer said, oh, we'll finance you. But I remember the interest rate being like 15%. It was like 15 to 17%. Is there financing? And I ended up just buying the car in cash. But I thought that was so stupid that you have to like build your way up these cars. I had no idea that was a thing. It's a thing. Well, and it hasn't always been a thing, but it very much was a thing in 2013. And it's, again, important to zoom out a little bit and understand what's going on in the world where we're rebuilding from the financial crisis of 2008 to 2011. Really, it was still kind of a big deal. And so at that point, yeah, banks were very, very, few and far between that would take that kind of risk. It just being an older car. And yeah, because a few years earlier in 2006, I got a loan for a Lamborghini at 20 years old by just telling the bank how much money I made. And they didn't check anything, just like they didn't check real estate mortgage applications or anything like that. It was just, they call them liar loans or stated income loans. And so it was too easy. And then maybe it got a little bit too hard. And now I think we're kind of at a happy medium where the deal needs to line up somewhat. But you know, look, if you've got enough money down and you can't really prove your income or you've never done one, you can probably find a way. So what is your overall thought right now in the car market? I think that there's a lot of cars that are legitimately not desirable by the normal standards of rarity and significance and condition that have gone up in value a lot. And that's troublesome. There's people that are saying that there's market manipulation afoot and things like that. And I don't actually believe that's happening too terribly because nobody's going to go out there and try to manipulate. The market on 488. That's just not that they may, you know, there's 20,000 of them. Nobody cares. And so I think that it is genuine money, kind of dumb money. These aren't going into big collections. These aren't people buying their fifth Ferrari that are coming out on bring a trailer and doubling the market because they just know that they're only overpaying by one bid. These are real buyers. And that seems fragile because, you know, if you said, if you offered every owner of a 488, $550,000 for their car, they're all going to say yes, because they all paid $220,000 like two years ago. So that I don't have a lot of confidence in the really rare and significant stuff. I think it's bulletproof. I think there are so many factors. Uh, like we talked about these big family office, mega wealth people going in the transfer of wealth is unbelievable right now. Uh, I had asked super chat GPT, how many Americans are going to inherit more than $2 million this year? And it was 55% thousand. So when you think about like the number of what you would say, dumb money transactions on bring a trailers, maybe 200 cars have sold in ways that don't exactly make sense. That certainly could be explained just by that factor. So when you add that to more debt available, as people are leveraging up their collections and getting more cars, as well as just this, I mean, obviously the IPOs of some of these giant companies are printing crazy. I mean, I think there were 600 people in Austin that made more than a hundred million dollars on the, uh, SpaceX IPO. So, I mean, that's all of the demand for interesting car allocations to that area in Texas. What's interesting is that it seems as though the car market is tracking the same. Just put this together with Pokemon prices. I kid you not. When you look at the graph of Pokemon and then it dipped and we saw a similar dip in 2022 and the market corrected, it's gone back up. And what do cars do? They're going back up to, I'm just saying, I believe the two could be in some way or another. And we have to dig deeper to see what's driving this. Is it euphoria? Is it the stock market is doing well and people are overconfident? Is it people investing in this because they think it's going to be the next big asset class? And so therefore they could spend more on it. Justifying this is like, okay, I'm going to, it's going to be an investment. How old are Pokemon cards? 20, 25 years old. Yeah. Okay. It just had their late 20 something anniversary. So it's fair to argue that the people that grew up enjoying these things are. Now in a much better place and can afford to engage recreationally. Sure. You know, that would also follow the 20 year old exotic cards are going up in value, which they very much are. And so it's probably sound. What else would trend that way? The certain video games potentially. I mean, you could say that grand theft auto getting popular again, you know, could correlate to the same people that were playing the early versions of the game and are excited again. But yeah, that's a thing. Part of me thinks. That it's just AI is going to disrupt the market so much that it's even hard to know which stocks are going to end up being the winners and which one's the losers because companies can now be built up this quickly. Companies can be killed this quickly if they don't adopt AI. And so maybe all of these people that have all of this money on the back, like, I mean, the rich are getting richer. They don't know what to do with their money. They don't necessarily want to buy stocks at this point. They want to buy something that can't necessarily be affected, duplicated, replicated by AI. So maybe that's tangible assets. Yeah. If the wealthy continue to get wealthier than something that cannot be bought with like, you know, like traded on an exchange or something, something that like a physical, it's a physical thing. You know what I was thinking? I wondered how much would it cost to purchase a poster or some sort of like collection of every single autograph of every single president. And apparently the autographs themselves are not that expensive. If you collect it, put them all together in a nice display. But if you don't, then you're not going to be able to play. It could actually be like a profitable endeavor. I think that that could actually be a decent investment, similar to Pokemon cards, because there's like somewhat of an art to it. There's, there's, you have to work hard for it. So what's so funny is that I looked into autographs, certain autographs. It's really hard to authenticate each one. So if you were able to do the work and authenticate each autograph, then I think you would have something there. But that like, that'd be really, really, so really in your research, how much would it cost to get all, know, the cost would be a anywhere between like 30 and 80,000. Really not that expensive. A lot of president's autographs are just going to be like a couple hundred bucks. And then some of the older ones, like an actual George Washington autograph can be anywhere from five to 10,000. Okay. And have you found any examples of someone selling their collection? No. Interesting. But that would be like, you could probably put it all together. Let's just say worst case scenario, a hundred thousand dollars. Some guy who's got a billion dollars or like hundreds of millions, tens of millions. That's like a history fanatic or like America fanatic. They would probably pay a few hundred thousand dollars. I feel like to have every single US president, how cool is that? Well, in the car world, there's always this like rich guy in Dubai idea that like somebody's going to swoop in and buy my car for way more than it's worth. Some guy in Dubai is going to buy it. And so, you know, the person who is going to pay two or 300,000 for something that can be assembled for 80,000, maybe that is the convenience fee, right? The authentication is kind of the main obstacle. Right. But if you paid somebody a hundred thousand dollars as a broker to go out and buy it, they could, they could do what you did. Right. So sometimes things are worth, you know, what they're worth on their own merit. And then sometimes they're worth relative to what it takes to produce them. And so if there is theoretically a supply of these things, then you're, you know, you're going to make money from the convenience and the artistry of it and how it's displayed. But I think it's a fascinating idea. More of an arbitrage than a profit, but I like it. So what do you think of the new car market right now and the new cars coming up? Very unreliable. And so you're, you're dealing with a lot of cars that don't have as much longevity, cars that are built with different priorities in mind and they are not selling well. So new car sales across almost all marks is pretty, are down. What make is doing it right? Porsche is certainly doing it right from a curation of the demand of their customer base to the extent that they're getting pretty exasperated with having to buy a Macan to get a GT3 RS or, you know, all the things that they have to do. But when, when it comes to really maximizing profit, Porsche and Ferrari are doing a really, really good job. Ferrari has sort of built, especially over the last 25 to 30 years, a customer base that knows that they're not allowed to say no to anything if they want to maintain their status. And they have done probably about as good a job as anybody short of maybe Hermes or whatever with these purses to make sure they extract as many dollars as possible out of all of their customers. So like the unit profit is unbelievable that those two are definitely doing it right. Although you would say that most of their latest offerings were less desirable than the one that there's less enthusiasm for them versus, but they're still selling them all. How do you think AI is going to affect the new productions of cars in the next five or so years? You know, it's so easy to say that AI is going to flip over the whole sandbox and that nothing in life is going to look the same. Five, 10, 20 years from now. And there's an easy argument to be made that that's possible. Life doesn't feel the same as it did two years ago as AI has proliferated and improved. But I don't necessarily think that a lot of the stuff that we just enjoy doing is going to change. Are we going to have more of an opportunity to do things we enjoy? Probably. You know, if I was going to start a business today, it would be in recreation. We would go under the assumption that unemployment, it skyrockets. And as we have, you know, potentially an era, an age of abundance or potentially, you know, we're all just waiting to die. I think that, you know, sports leagues for old people seems like pickleball does seem like the space, right. For entrepreneurism and opportunity. But I think in the car world, we're going to see a lot of efficiencies in production. We're going to see a lot of deficiencies in creativity and in really relating to your customer base. So you're going to have to, you know, you're going to have to, you know, you're going to have to, you know, you're going to have to be able to be able to deal with it. You're going to have to be able to deal with it. But really isn't what anybody wants. And, you know, I run into this issue anytime I get a car that's too good. So I bought a 2014 Bentley Flying Spur about three months ago, and it was a $220,000 car and I bought it for 15,000 bucks with a hundred thousand miles on it. And it was a rat piece of junk, but after about $10,000 invested in it, it's amazing. And I love it. And it's so comfortable and easy. And I had two big trips last week. I drove it 2,500 miles and I should have driven my much more interesting cars that I don't mind putting miles on, but I don't. Cause I go out there and there's an option of sitting in this massaging seat, comfortable Bentley with working air conditioning and good visibility. And I just drive it and I'll sell it because I don't want cars that are too good for me. And I don't want cars that are too good for me. And I don't want cars that good because I love terrible cars. I enjoy the masochism of driving uncomfortable, interesting cars that allow me to feel driving. When do you think we'll get to a point where different car makes will intentionally decrease the quality or increase the rawness of the cars that they produce? Because we were speaking to someone recently, I think it was Steve Hamilton that like all of these luxury car makers or supercar makers, hypercars, they're all kind of becoming the same thing. And I think that's a good thing. Where you're just like throwing as much horsepower in there. Every car make can now produce a car that goes zero to 60 under three seconds. So like at what point are you going to see car makes try something totally unique or intentionally kind of inhibit some aspect of their car? So it's not too perfect for the real car enthusiasts. You know what this reminds me of? I know we've seen this when you look at old McDonald's and old taco bells and like Burger Kings, they used to be such unique buildings and now they're all the box. Everyone has just done the box because when they move out, they're all the box. I think that's a good thing. I think they could just move a new one in and they realized it's too expensive to build out these custom McDonald's with the things over. That's how it's kind of becoming with cars. It seems really quick. You got to be honest with me here. Somewhere in your phone is a notes app with at least three business ideas in it. And those ideas could turn into real businesses, but you're just held up on the first step. However, that first step is actually very straightforward when today's sponsor Shopify handles it for you. Every single thing that you need to start selling is included and ready to go from day one. You can launch a store in a few simple steps and their AI site builder and design templates mean it actually looks good without hiring anybody. And when your very first customer is ready to pay, shop pay is literally the easiest checkout on the market. So more of them actually finished the purchase. 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Because the cars have gotten so advanced technologically that it wouldn't have worked well with the e-diff and with the lightweight internals that they're building these cars with. So they made one that they call the manuale and it's the 12 cylindry. It's a stick, but it's fake. The gear shift is essentially buttons where you move it and it tells it to go into first and then into second. And there is a clutch pedal and it is actually programmed to stall, but it's very patronizing to those of us that love manual cars because like we love them because of the purity and the efficiency and the simplicity mechanically. And, you know, look, I think younger kids care a lot less about manual cars, but we care about them a lot. And, uh, I think it's interesting to see those different effects that we may be in some cases like Ferrari's just too far past their ability to give people what they actually want. And you may just run into sort of the wagon dilemma where they just stop existing. So enthusiasts always scream, we won't, we won't wagons and they don't buy them new. They buy used cars. So, you know, I love manual V12 cars, but I don't buy new cars. So no, they don't care about me. My opinion does not matter to these companies. And so if, if all we're willing to do is buy them once they're depreciated 80%, then we really don't count, right? Your opinion doesn't matter in that case. You know, I think is going to happen and people are going to be so pissed off at this, but I think we're going in the, the subscription revenue model where do you want your car to drive more than 80 miles an hour? That'll be $10 a month. Do you want heated seats? That'll be $15 a month. Do you want to unlock your car? Do the remote start? They're already doing that. That's going to be $15 a month. Do you want century on your car? So you could see it. That'll be $20 a month. And then pretty soon you could pick and choose every little feature and add a price to it. Everything windshield protection is now a thing. I got a pop-up on, my Tesla app. Do you want windshield protection? $23 a month. What? Yeah. That's expensive. Well, they've always had insurance plans for windshields. And so where it's, it's not like they are actually keeping the rocks away at that point. They will just, that's a, an insurance policy. But that's just right. That sounds expensive for windshield protection. No, because replacing the windshield is that expensive. Twenty five hundred dollars on a Tesla. It's a lot of money. But my point being is I think we're going in the subscription revenue model where you want remote start five bucks a month. And pretty soon it's like television. Pretty soon it's going to be like you're going to spend more money on the subscription than you would on the car payment itself. That's where I think it's heading. There's a good chance of that. Yes. Potentially. And we're also going to get eventually into the era where it's pure coach building, where there's just a chassis and then all you're paying for is the body, the interior and the infotainment. Because beyond that, every car is the same through electrification and things like that. If someone has a minimal budget, but they want a great car, what do you think they should buy? And I'm talking minimal budget, like let's say a few thousand bucks. At a few thousand dollars, you're not really paying for the car. You're paying for the last 18 months of maintenance. So you're going to try to find a car that has recently had brakes, tires, plugs, coils, fluids done because that's, you know, when you start trying to now buy a two or three thousand dollar car, that's what matters. And so documenting that as a seller, that's how you sell them is you take the fear out of buying a cheap car like that. When you start thinking about trying to, we've done this with, you know, various car treks and things like that where we'll buy, you know, 50,000 dollars a month. And then you start thinking about trying to, you know, we've done this with, you know, various car treks and things like that where we'll buy, you know, 15 hundred dollar cars and they're, they're all junk. Like, especially if you try to get an interesting 15 hundred dollar car that's not a Honda or a Nissan or whatever. So yeah, they're, they're junk, but they're a whole lot of fun. We, uh, we bought an SLK and Audi TT and a old, old Supra and drove them from Hoovey's house in Kansas all the way to New York. All the way down to Galveston. And then I drove TT into the Galveston Bay and, uh, and it drove right out and I drove it home 14 hours. So it's, uh, you can make them last sometimes, but not. If someone wants the cheapest possible car over the course of their, the entire ownership, what would it be in terms of maintenance, reliability? Like this car could last them 40 years. Like what is a bulletproof cheap car? Well, the cheapest car to own is always the one you already have. And so the, the way to minimize. Your ownership cost in cars is to love the cars that you have enough to keep them. And so to be willing to endure driving it that long, when you start thinking about trying to put two, three, four, 500,000 miles on a car, that's getting harder and harder because there's just a lot of issues with cylinder linings and lubrication that are a lot worse now than they were across all manufacturers. A decade or so ago. So I don't actually know that I would start with a brand new car. With that aim. Um, it would probably be a Porsche to be honest with you. I think Porsches are the best built automobiles right now. They're not the most interesting, but if you were at, if you actually wanted to put 250,000 miles on anything interesting. Yeah. Otherwise you're, you're normal. Honda's Toyotas. You'd say Honda and Toyota are the most reliable cars. Probably. This is not my expertise. I don't think about these problems often, but yes, historically speaking, if you look at consumer reports and all these things that tends to be the case. And so what cars today are guaranteed? To be financial disasters. Virtually any new car that you can walk in and buy is going to depreciate and usually in a fairly predictable measure, 1% a month is always the plus or minus for depreciation. If you look at lease residuals or anything like that, like a good lease is less than 1%, including taxes and everything a month. That's pretty rare. We are seeing unbelievable depreciation in electric cars right now. Where Tesla's. And, you know, all the electric European cars are just in some cases, sub 50% residual value in 12 to 24. Why is that? Well, lease incentives is the reason for that because it's so cheap to buy new ones, you know, under Obama after clash for Africa, cash for clunkers and all these things where we, he was really trying to get some traction for electric cars, where we had lease deals on Nissan Leafs for a hundred, 150 bucks a month. Everybody bought them. They sold. A million of these things. And they had like 80 miles of electric range. Well, the problem is if a brand new car that was $35,000 is a hundred bucks a month, how much is a used one worth? Well, a hundred dollars a month is the payment on like five grand. And so they're worth like $5,000. And so in those cases, you literally had like 80% depreciation on these cars. Inside. For 24 months, because there was zero demand. The only people that wanted to use one just didn't have enough credit to get the hundred dollar lease or the $150 lease. If you wanted heated seats, um, you know, that kind of thing. And so, you know, those are the cars. Yes. Modern electric cars are guaranteed to depreciate to nothing. Who is even buying new cars in 2026? Like I, in my entire life, the only new cars that I have ever known about being purchased is I stupidly bought my Tesla new. And Graham, you bought a new Tesla. Yes, but because it made so much financial sense. But I'm just saying you like new cars, like, oh, I guess Jeremy, Jeremy bought a Ferrari, right? Was that new? No, that was used. He bought them both used. Who is buying new cars today? In some cases, they're buying new cars because the slightly used ones that still have the features and the reliability that they think they want are too close because there's not as much initial depreciation because of used car leasing because of extended warranty. And so, you know, I think that's a good thing. because of a lot of factors that manufacturers can do to short-term bolster the value of depreciating cars. And so there are situations where it just makes more sense to buy something new because the amount that you're saving, let's say it's a lot less than 10%. So certain things like Escalades and GMC Yukons for a long time and Tahoe's didn't depreciate all that much. So really you didn't pay that much extra to get a new one. And most of the V8 engines that they put in the cars in the last decade are going to fail. And so it was really, really important to have a warranty. And so those are calculations where people can very rationally end up buying a new car. There's also situations where you plan to rely on goodwill from manufacturers and lemon law risks and things like that, that can make sense to buy new cars, even when you naturally wouldn't. But in reality, there is enough demand and leasing is one of the biggest things about it, where people are leasing these cars because they want to have something new. The same way they want to have a new phone in two years is that they like to just trade in and out and they insist on having the latest greatest thing and they consider that to be a reasonable expense you know amongst their entire financial portfolio that's crazy i was looking at upgrading my tesla and getting a new one and when i'm looking at the used values of teslas right now i'm talking about the new redesigns like 2024 newer they're selling for almost the same price as a new one would cost in model y or model y model three performance specifically and the model x and s have now shot up in value about 20 because they were discontinued yes and look tesla is an interesting company and we have no idea what the future holds but i uh i think it's going to be a fun one to watch uh you know whenever you're talking about trading from you know your current car to a newer version of the same thing. You have to value those marginal gains so much. So people come up to me all the time and they're like, you know, are you sad that the cars that you love aren't made anymore? No, I'm not sad. I like having goals where the goalpost doesn't move. I like having a dream car that, you know, is its own thing. And I don't have to think, oh man, I hope they don't add car play next year. Cause then I'll have to buy the new model year. Cause I know none of my car radios work, but I don't care. I like to have like a finite target that I can, that I can aim for and strive for. So what is your dream car? My dream car really is a Marseille to go. And when I bought my first one, I had like a proper identity crisis of like, well, why do I have to keep going to work? I mean, I still owed 12 years of payments on this car. Let's be honest. But I was like, that was the dream was like to have this car and I've got one and I've had nine since then. Cause I love them that much. You know, when that was, that was the dream car when we really started to gain some traction with Vin wiki. And I knew that I needed to like bear down and really, you know, grind at this stuff. I said, you know what? I need, the only way I'm going to do a good job at this is if I have a stupid car goal. So I was like, I'm going to buy a Bugatti. And I, uh, I, I was like, well, that sounds like a stupid idea. How in the world am I going to buy a million car. Uh, but having that as kind of this background dripping faucet of a motivating goal, uh, you know, made me work harder. And when I bought it, I was like, well, darn it. You know, what am I going to do now? Cause I don't want a Valkyrie or some of these other great cars that people are well justified in wanting. I'd like a McLaren F1, but I don't really want to have enough money to have a 30, $40 million car. Cause that has other issues in your life that I'd prefer to avoid. So I don't know i'm i'm beyond content is the answer uh and i i love the stuff that i currently have so what should people look for when they're buying a used car generally just getting a good inspection is enough and it's really a lot simpler than people think we use a company called lemon squad where they can get out and inspect a car usually within like 24 hours no matter where it is it's kind of a gig economy solution um but you know if you have time take it to somebody who really knows these cars and have it looked at, it's not that expensive and it saves you, it more than pays for itself in the negotiating leverage to be able to say, well, I now know the that this professional has evaluated that it needs this, that, and this. And now I should owe you less for this car. And they can't argue with you because you've proven it. How much should an inspection cost? I mean, Lemon Squad can be, you know, $200 or less. They can do it live from your phone if you need it done right then for like 60 bucks. And so you can just FaceTime a professional mechanic who will let you walk around the car and say, all right, open the hood, look at this, show me this, you know, and. I have problems with my cars that I don't, I'm not trying to sell them, but I would love to figure out. I took it to the, I took it to actual shop and they couldn't figure it out. Call them 60 bucks. Holy mackerel. How accurate is that? Because I feel like the mechanics actually go in there and they like. It's the combobulator. Yeah. That's what's broken on the car. But they open up the combobulator and they're able to see all the things, the widgets in the combobulator to know like, oh, that thing is broken. Well, my Uber today on the way to the Atlanta airport had a roaring. I mean, it is going to grenade momentarily. And I'm not going to tell this guy that the way he earns a living is like, that he desperately needs. Why wouldn't you tell him? I would tell him. Oh, because nobody likes to hear that kind of thing. I don't know. Maybe I should have told him. I don't know. I would have told, you could message him. Because what if he's in the middle of a ride and his whole thing blows up in the middle of the freeway? He wasn't unaware. The noise was profound. But maybe bad hearing or something. Anyway. Okay. I'll send him a message. But I am not a mechanic. I pay mechanics. But it's not that hard to diagnose cars. And they could at least narrow it down to the three possible things that add some AI and you're going to have a good day. So yeah, by all means, somebody can remote diagnose your car. Where do you find the best deals? I find the best deals in situations where I am not competing with people, where I will find that a car is available, in a circumstance that would alienate most buyers. So my $26,000 McLaren, once again, it came with nine cars that I had to buy out of an estate. And so I bought three Corvettes and a Mustang and an R8 and an i8. Were they all flooded? This guy, uh, was real high up at LabCorp and he was their CIO and he had retired and started watching VinWiki videos and it became a huge fan. It was like, Ed buys these terrible cars. I should do that too. And he bought them all. I mean, he bought a warehouse full of these things. And so then not because of that, he, uh, I got connected after he'd passed, unfortunately, because of, uh, cancer. And so his wife contacted a local Kia dealer asking how to sell all these salvage title, exotic cars, and that person only knew to ask Ed Bolian. So he sent me a message and said, Ed, what do you do? And I told him, I said, well, generally you tell me what they are. You ask for a lot of money. I offer a little bit of money and we meet right smack dab in the middle at my original offer and I come get them. And he goes, oh, okay, we can do that. And so he asked for a bunch of money. I told him what I thought they were all worth blind. I don't need any information. I'll tell you what I know. They can't be worth less than, and I, uh, and he said, all right, if you'll wire the money and come get them, you can have them tomorrow. So I get a bunch of trucks, we go up there and we got all nine cars. I actually bought three and then the one they were so pleased with that. I bought the other six. Wait a second. So are you going to keep them? Are you going to flip any of the cars for yourself? Are you going to, they're already sold? Yeah. I gave one to my editor. He was, he took a new job and, uh, as a parting gift, I gave it, let him pick. And he chose a Corvette. Um, I had already sold a couple of the R8 and the I8 to friends. Um, you didn't call me the, uh, well, they're all going to come up for sale in November. So they're going to come back around. Now the deal is done. Well, and I actually, I, I thought a lot about that because I get endless requests for people like, Hey. Hey, help me buy a car. And, uh, AI has not perfectly solved how I scale myself in that way yet. And so I, I was like, all right, let's use these cars as an experiment to see how this would work, because I would love to just have a, I don't know what the best platform to use a Patrion where you pay a hundred dollars a month. And I love all my cars. I'm not really looking to buy anything, but I get opportunities to buy something every day. I'm just going to put them all in a chat and you guys can just go buy them. I don't care. I don't need to make money on them or anything. Uh, you're paying for the access. I'm not making any representation of the cars other than this came across my desk. Here you go. Um, and so I kind of did that, I guess, sent a list of these cars out to some friends and like the first one was like, well, what recourse do we have? And I'm like, none, it's a branded title car in, you know, North Carolina. Like, no, it's, we bought, you know, I was like, you can not buy it. Cause I'm going to buy it anyway, but like, that's not really how this is supposed to work and then another one was like, well, you know, what is your mechanic going to do to it before I buy it for the price that I've already agreed to? I'm like, uh, nothing. It's, it's very much as is. And so it was, and they were not, they just don't think about buying cars the way that I do. And they shouldn't because it's stupid. And I understand that, like, you know, it's not for everyone. And I'm trying to sort of figure out. I don't actually think my idea there would work because I think everybody would end up taking risks. They probably shouldn't and winding up with cars that are worse and sometimes they're better. Sometimes they're worse, but you know, like when I bought my cheap Bentley, I drove it back and the guy had badly welded a wheel and it broke, but I carry a big box of everything that you could use just to get somewhere. And so I've got a JB weld this wheel in a parking lot of a loves and then air it back up and nobody's going to do that. They're going to end up with a very expensive tow bill from somewhere in West Georgia that they don't even know where to take it. And then when it shows up, they don't have any paperwork. Yet to process. And I enjoy that mess because I've kind of built out the way it works, but it's not like a silver bullet to great deals. Got it. Okay. That makes sense. But please pass. I'll be happy. Please keep us in mind. You got it. You get a cool Audi R8. Yeah. I like the R8. He likes the I8. I'm iffy on the I8. So the R8 was like mid fifties, but it had 106,000 miles and again, totally unknown. Been sitting for a year. You know, by the time they got around to executing probate and selling stuff, uh, you know, there was an I8, but you know, we, it, fortunately it was actually a really nice car, but we had to buy it thinking it's going to need a battery and all the things which could be in, you know, How much was the I8? Twenties. Oh. I think. Yeah. I feel like I take the risk. Anything in the twenties, I'll risk it. So if you bought a car and it was 25,000 bucks and maybe a great one, 60, but. You got to spend 20 or $25,000 and you still wind up on it. And, and then, so you got 50 grand in a branded title car and the car's down for six months and you're like, why did I do this? And you got to pay cash and you got to pay before you see it. You know, it's not, it's not just an assembly line at the used car factory of all these great deals that just happened to go under water at some point, 10 years ago, that happens sometimes. But a lot of times you're like, oh, wow, this thing doesn't work at all. Okay. I've never lost money. On the car. Not that, I mean, cars that we like destroyed for production that were let very inexpensive. I guess I've lost some money on it. I lost one when Freddie sold it on my behalf without my permission, but I let him know that that was unacceptable. My wife's daily driver cars have lost money, I guess, but like not on like a car that I buy for fun or for content. So how could other people then not ever lose money in a car? Generally know everything that can go wrong about a car. And create a margin between what you'll pay and what that could manifest as. So I have enough, you know, it, the worst thing that could happen on a $26,000 McLaren is that the engine blows up, which only happens like 40% of the time. And so I was like, well, you know, I could buy an engine for probably 30 to 40,000 bucks. At that point, I'm going to retail out of this car. I may not make that much, but it'll be okay. So it's the ability to make the right offer and then put that offer to the right seller who, for whatever reason, isn't willing to, or able to engage in a more competitive sales process. Why doesn't who these garage follow your advice? Because it's not that entertaining to watch things go really, really well. We watch Tyler because he goes out and buys the cheapest example of whatever, when the next cheapest would have been a good car, but he buys the worst one. So we can learn all of the bad things that would happen. And that is a really entertaining product. And then he spends money fixing it. And then that becomes a problem. And then he's the dumbest automotive channel in all of YouTube that we've come to know and love. And it goes really well. What do you think of online auction sites like Bring a Trailer and Cars and Bids? They're wonderful. They operate on a little bit of a new fallacy that most cars are not actually seven or 10 day liquid. They have been for the last seven or eight years because of unique things that, again, are macroeconomic trends where there's a lot more liquidity, there's a lot more enthusiasm and things like that. They sort of represent a very, very hard to quantify reality. They're very good ways to liquidate cars. It is important to engage with them in the right way, to represent your car the right way, take the right pictures, get the right inspections done, do all the stuff beforehand to make sure that your car brings the most money. But the fact that they have solved the critical mass attention issue, that there are enough bidders and things like that on there, to me is awesome. We've had a lot of sponsors on Venwiki. these different upstart car company or auction companies, and it is, it's really really hard. Like it's probably the most expensive cost of user acquisition that I've ever seen in the automotive world. Um, you know, short of finding a brand new Rolls Royce buyer, I don't know that you could have to spend much more money. I think right now, based on what I've seen, it's probably between 15 and $20,000 of marketing expense to acquire a true retail value winning bidder that has seven days of discovery on a car remotely. Uh, when we started doing it, uh, with another one, it was probably $5,000. And, and I can see that based on what they spend with me and the number of really successful things they have now that's discounting the customer lifetime value, which is significant because most people end up buying five, six, seven cars there. It becomes a habit. Um, so I think they can break even or beyond that if they're only making a five to 7%, you know, fee on top of that. But yeah, it's a, it's a very competitive space and no one's really been able to do it without a preexisting social audience. And when you buy a car, how do you effectively negotiate? Like what are the strategies that you use? Not just coming up with the price and this is what it is minus 40%. And how do you schmooze? So that's the problem is most people think, Oh, I'm just going to low ball them. I'm going to give them an unqualified low casual offer and just see what they say. Like, Oh, you're asking a hundred thousand. Well, you'd take 60, right? No, like that's, but if I come in and I'm like, look, I totally understand that a hundred thousand dollars is reasonable. And if you can find someone who wants that exact spec right now and can manage to, you know, either get it financed or pay cash, likely have to pay cash because of all these circumstances that makes it more desirable to me and, you know, doesn't require any reconditioning, then sure. That makes sense. But look, let's be honest. I know that it needs these three things because all of them need these three things. And I'm not going to make us go through all the hoops and get it trucked across town. I get it inspected to prove it. I am willing to fully commit at a number that accommodates for the risk that I'd be taking. And I'm not going to need anything beyond this. If you say, yes, I'm wiring the money right now. I am fully committed to this offer and it is less than I know you want, but it'll be the easiest transaction you've ever had. And I'm never going to call you unless you want to know what happened to it. And if it blows up on the way past your mailbox, it's my problem. They're going to go, wow, that sounds like a really nice way to sell a car. And this guy really seems to know what he's doing. And the only way he's going to talk me into paying more is like, well, I can prove that it doesn't need this, or I can prove that it won't need that. And then we start to have a little bit of a different discussion, but that's how you negotiate. You negotiate from a point of a hundred percent commitment. Do you do this over the phone or in person? And what's the difference between the two? Usually over the phone. If you negotiate in person, you're too committed. Like they know that you you've driven, you've traveled, like you're not going to go home without this car. So you need to know when, so I like to buy them cheap enough that it's reasonable to do it blind. So let's just say I'm browsing Facebook marketplace. Cause this is what I've been doing and it's not worked. I've been looking at really good deals for like 2022 to 2024 Tesla model S and X. And I know exactly where they sell. I know the market really well based on the mileage. And usually what I'll do is I'll low ball 10 to 15% below, but I'll send them a message saying, Hey, uh, I'll pay you this. And if you agree to it, I'll come and pick it up right now. Cash buyer. But everyone said no. So am I doing it wrong? Should I be getting a phone number first? Like, Hey, I got a few questions. We'd love to chat over the phone and then pitch it over the phone. Like, do you think that makes that big of a difference? Well, I think you need to think about why someone is taking a fairly new Tesla to Facebook marketplace. Facebook marketplace is where you go buy some real junk. And I like that. I spent a lot of money on that. I spent a lot of time there, but I don't go there thinking like, I'm going to buy a great car today. I'm going to buy a 200,000 mile Maserati that it runs on half the motor. Like that's what I'm going to do. And then I'm probably going to, I know I'm going to have to push it somewhere sometime. Um, if, uh, if they're advertising a 2022 Tesla on marketplace, they owe too much money and they have to get that amount of money in order to pay their loan off. That's the only circumstance where they're going to have it. Otherwise it would have taken. I see somewhere it says like upgraded to, uh, Cybertruck selling this because they didn't want to take the trade allowance. Yeah. So if they, they're not willing to take what it's actually worth. So they're out there looking for that rich guy in Dubai or that rich YouTuber from Vegas to come in and to come in and overpay for it because they, they have this hope that they're going to get that last dollar out of it. So if I want to buy a private party specifically, cause there's no sales tax in Vegas for private party used car transactions, where do I go? That is, that's a fun wrinkle because that might, might motivate people that they think that they're not getting, cause you do get trade credits on dealer transactions, correct? So they've given, they decided that even seven, 8% more than what I was being allowed on the trade was not enough. So private parties, I mean, you can sort by private party, uh, listings on all of them, which is weird. It is strange, which means that dealers know they have to pay more. And so we had that in Georgia 20 years ago. Um, it was only, uh, sales tax on new and used through dealers. And so it was a huge disadvantage and the dealers lobby hard to have sales taxes instituted on private party transactions to avoid this dilemma. Uh, and, but you know, it does create this spread of like, it's you, you're buying cars for less at dealers than you would pay it for a private party because it still makes sense. Yeah. So when you worked at a Lamborghini dealer, what are the best customers do different from everyone else? The best on the value Delta of the way that they're experiencing it to make a hobby that they really like most sustainable. Um, in my opinion, now the customers that do things differently, that just come in and trade every six months for whatever it costs, because that's the adventure they want to go on. Or they come in and they spec $250,000 worth of options on a car, because that's the way that they feel that they've expressed their love of the automobile most are also right. But when I put the, the people that I admire, and I wanted to emulate in my own ownership, it was the people that were really conscious of the economics of it. And, and that's the reason they asked me to come work at the store because, you know, in working in the rental car industry, I knew exactly how much it costs to put every single mile on each of these cars, all factors in, because that is the only way I could know if I was ever going to make any money. And so they wanted that applied to the broader scope of like multi-year ownership. So I could tell people counsel through the inevitable depreciation that was, because I started there in '09. So these were unsellable automobiles. How much wiggle room is there actually in price on a Ferrari or a Lamborghini? That totally depends. Generally, the spread between invoice and MSRP on most new cars is going to be between eight and 15%. There will be periodic incentives, rebates, things like that, that could go beyond that. That's on new cars. Most used car dealers start from about an 8% to 10% margin, and will end up making less than a quarter of that. And then they're going to start making less than 1% to 3% net after everything's paid out. Now, that doesn't mean that you can negotiate all of it away, because they actually have to generate some gross profit to keep the lights on. And so generally speaking, wiggle room is probably going to be on the order of 5% to 20%, depending on the car. What percent of the people that bought Lamborghinis at the Lamborghini dealership would you say was a financially irresponsible move for them to purchase that car? So that would mean that they were buying beyond what they could likely sustainably afford, because you could say that someone that I knew was going to lose $100,000 on a car, well, if they're worth $100 million, that doesn't really matter. But people who were stretching a lot to where if the car broke in a meaningful way, or if the car depreciated beyond what might be anticipated, that could become really problematic. That was probably 20% to 25%. That's not that bad, actually. 20% to 25%. If someone is going to purchase a car, what percent of their income do you think it should max at? I would say that the banks rule that the loan amount, the cumulative amount of all your car loans, should probably be less than you make in a year. And that's excessive by most financial advisor standards. But if you're in that zone, you're probably not, again, at risk of a terrible maintenance event or additional depreciation, really crippling you. Wait, explain that again? If your total loan amount, you have a $100,000 loan, you should make $100,000 a year. Okay. Yeah. What type of customer is most frequently buying a Lamborghini? Is it someone worth $3 million, $30,000, $300,000? It's lower than you would think. And it's gotten a little bit stronger because the new car sales have gone up a lot since I was there. But generally, I would say that the people were probably $1 million to $2 million net worth that were buying $1 million to $200,000 cars. So in order to just buy a Lamborghini, you'd probably say this person needs to make at least $200,000 a year. Well, given that most new Lamborghinis are now three, four, five, $600,000, I would say that you probably need to make at least half a million dollars a year to go buy a brand new one. If you want to buy a used Gallardo for a hundred grand, you could make $75,000 a year and not have any real risk. I mean, that needs to be your only vice, right? And that's one of the things, like if you have a real job, you can have one vice. It could be eating really nice food, traveling a lot, doing, you know, Pokemon cards, whatever. Or it could be a heavily depreciated interesting car. What would you say is your vice? I just like working. I don't know. I like working and saving. I don't I don't have a vice. Like a financial vice, there's nothing that you're willing to do? What's the most money you spent on a single thing or event in the last 12 or 18 months? While it was that Heritage Auctions, it was a three-piece storyboard set, the key scene from Nightmare Before Christmas. Okay. Where Jack and Sally hold hands on top of the hill. That was it. How much was it? Under $20,000. Okay. If you think about the last five years, are most of the similar magnitude purchases art or significant collectibles? I only spend money if I feel like it's going to be an investment. If I bought this thing, I bought it because I liked it, but I also bought it because I felt like it's underappreciated, undervalued, and I can't see why I wouldn't sell for triple. That's how I look at it. I don't like buying things where I know the money's just gone. What's the last thing that you bought with no concern? If it's a future value or an experience that you spent money on? First-class plane ticket. I would say the aquarium. No, but that's not. It's $20, $30 here, and that's a cleaner shrimp. I mean, it's not like. Well, I meant the actual purchase of the aquarium itself. Yeah, but that was six years ago. I would say a first-class plane ticket, that was the last time I had spent money where I did not think of an. Even then, I thought of an ROI. I was like, if I could get work done, I could make that back. At least, and then it's a free flight. Got it. But everything is an ROI. How much do you have in the aquarium? 50 grand, give or take. Okay. And that's probably worth now 12. Right. So that is a vice. That's a hobby, and I think it's a wonderful hobby. I've got an expensive boa constrictor, and so I agree that that can be a really, really lovely thing that can add value to your life and peace as you stare at it. And so that would be a good example, and that's a huge expense, right? Lighting, in fact, $50,000, $40,000 on fire is a lot. You need to derive value. And so for that, you could have owned a couple of very interesting cars in that same time in Delta, but you could do that on. That's a lot, but I mean, you could do that on a $50,000 to $100,000 salary over time if you saved and if you were disciplined, but if you did that, you would need to not travel in first class and things like that. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. And I think the same is true for interesting cars, that you can own one for a lot less than you would think. You just do have to discipline yourself in the rest of life's asset allocation. So if someone gave you a million dollars to build a perfect five-car collection, what would it be? Hey, by the way, really quick, if you want extra content just like this, as well as early access and a bonus post show posted every single week, feel free to join as a channel member to get immediate access to all of that, as well as early access to everything else that we post, along with bonus content. So if that sounds cool, feel free to join. Would love to have you on board. Thanks so much. We'll get back to the podcast now. I would buy an edgy e-gear Lamborghini Murcielago for, let's say, $300,000. I would buy a Mercedes McLaren SLR for about $300,000. I would buy a manual transmission Ferrari 360. So I'd have a manual open-top car for $150,000. And I'd have $250,000 left to spend. And I'd want some kind of a, probably an S-Class of some sort to drive around, or a Bentley that's depreciated, and something for the family. If it was going to be something else interesting, I'd probably buy a 911 variant that I could just beat on. But yeah, that'd kind of be it. The one I really like, when you said Bentley, the Bentley Bentaygas. Yeah. Like a 2017. I'm seeing them now in the 60s. Oh yeah, you can buy them in the 30s if you're crazy enough. Is that a bad car to buy? Yes. Why? Because they will mechanically total themselves, meaning that when things go badly, you can't justify fixing them for the eventual value that they still have. I still love them. I own the same thing as a sedan, and it's not responsible. But, you know, they're lovely. They're lovely cars. And same Range Rovers, any of these things, same thing. In terms of resale, how much does a unique spec matter? That's a really, really hard thing, because you can look at certain cars where special specs can double the value. Having a paint-to-sample 918 or Carrera GT doubles the value at the moment, which is really hard to say that there is a seven-figure desirability delta between colors. But the market right now is saying that it is. I don't view that as long-term sustainability. As cars get really valuable, we see more of a compression across specs that people just, if one is available, they do that. You know, so it's generally not that big of a deal. Used car buyers have a preference towards spec, but like, if you were really faced with an apples-to-apples delta to go from a 7,000-mile white GT to pay another $400,000, $500,000 for a heritage car? I don't think you're going to do it. Maybe $100,000, $200,000, which still feels crazy, because it's paint, and you could wrap it for $5,000 to look the same way. But people do. And it is, in those cases, a reasonable store of value, and they're probably going to get it back. And so that's the kind of thing that you would justify, and I would struggle hard. Because you see that, and you're right, that if that is the primary focus for the ownership, that this is just kind of a, you know, it's a wash. I'm going to pay the delta that the market has. I expect that delta to prevail. If it doesn't prevail over time, I'm ready to do it. I would say I can't possibly get the marginal enjoyment out of that color, and so I'm just going to buy it. That's why I have a red-over-red Bugatti with red wheels. But are certain colors getting a premium right now? It seems like for Ferrari, it's yellow. Yellow is bigger than red. Green is bigger than everything. Orange doesn't work for Ferraris, because they always look like just a picture's unsaturated, because everybody thinks it's red. But on a Lamborghini, green is a 20% to 30% premium. Orange is up there. And so, yes, there are certainly situations. Where that happens. And what about people trying to deduct cars on taxes? Because we recently posted with Stradman. Got in trouble deducting cars as props, but then paying tax on it when he realized the gain, but he would be just rolling it into future cars. So, again, I'm not an accountant. And, you know, realizing automotive gains is a really difficult thing to do for any accountant, because there are obviously expenses that could offset them, but you're not really supposed to do that as a normal tax return. And so, I would say everybody defer there. I am comfortable with basis shifting in trades, particularly given the fact that it's totally legal for paperwork to reflect different values, as long as the actual cash outlay delta is well documented. It's also perfectly reasonable for people to treat themselves more as dealers, where they can treat. the gains more as revenue or income, as opposed to. and then the basis being the expense of the car. So, there's a lot of ways that you can do it and get away with it, I think, entirely legally. But, you know, if you're going to go out there and realize a bunch of gains, you do need to plan to pay for it. Steve Hamilton alleged that Ferrari and Pagani understate their car counts, their manufacturer counts. Do you think that there's any validity to that claim? Or do you think. Do you think that that's false? It's absolutely true. It's very well documented. I built an app for it. And so, like, for instance, Ferrari said they made 399 Ferrari Enzos, plus one for the Pope. And there's well over 500 of them in our app. So, they, you know, undercounted by more than 25%. That's happened a lot. And that's why they now don't have a number out of, you know, a LaFerrari just said limited to 499. And they'll do that forever. Now, they say one of them. Of 799 or whatever they're making. So, when did they stop doing that and actually sticking with the number? Was it the Barchetta? 550 Barchettas, Super Americas were numbered. And 599 SA Aperitas were numbered. And there are some of their duplicates of certain numbers. No. Out of 80. Yeah. There's, like, you know, multiples. So, what's the. And then, of course, there's, like, 0 and 00 and 000 as prototypes. Oh, yeah. With, like, F50s, they had post-production prototypes because they just wanted to build a car. They just wanted to build some more. Is that legal? No. It is fraud. But, what are you. You're going to sue them? For an extra car? You're going to sue Ferrari for defrauding you on your car that was immediately worth a million dollars over MSRP, that it should have been worth more than a million dollars over MSRP, and you're going to have a jury of your peers hear that case and say that, yeah, you're right. You deserved more profit, guy that's rich. I think they're pretty safe. And it's the same way as, like, you know, you're not allowed to sell your car. You're allowed to sell your car whenever you want. No, you know, limitation of your ability to sell your car is remotely enforceable legally. But people sign these contracts that, again, are unenforceable because that's the requirement of the manufacturer. If they sell them, they just don't get any more cars from that manufacturer. So, it's internally enforced. That's so interesting. You were telling us before the podcast that you have data on. the general car loan market and how much equity certain people have in cars and this whole fascinating financial system behind the car market. Could you expand a little bit on that? So I'm always been fascinated by the data and the economics of how car ownership fundamentally works. And so I have been working with Experian and AutoCheck, which is unique because they have an auto data set in AutoCheck, which is much like Carfax, but they're Experian. They're a credit bureau, so they know everything. And so we've been trying to understand what can be revealed and what cannot. And so I'm going to work on some content with them because I just think it's the most fascinating thing in the world to understand what percentage of buyers of each type of car are financing them, leasing them, paying cash, things like that. So, well, I'll pull some of it out and we'll make a VIN wiki video here after that. I would love to hear about it. Yeah. Can you reveal one of the most shocking statistics that you found? It looks like I'm the only person to use car lease a Bugatti in the last five years. Really? So explain the mechanics behind this. Yeah. So I was able to get some data about like new car leasing versus, and it was like 0.5% of used Bugattis are structured as a lease. And maybe it was just me and Hoovey because he did lease his through Premier Financial as well. And so, you know, to me, that's really interesting because there's not that many transactions. So that's got to be you. So you are on there. Yeah. So sometimes you see a data set and you're like, well, I know who that one was. And so it was me. Is there anything that you've learned? Anything that you see that worries you about the car market crashing? We see so much right now about like upside down loans and negative equity in these cars and people can't afford to get rid of them. That will impact the new car market. It doesn't really impact the world that I play in. But yes, there is the perfect storm for catastrophic depreciation in some new cars, which, you know, fortunately, all that means is that some people will not be able to trade as fast or as often as they might like to. Is there a chance, though, they just stop making the payments? Of course, yeah. But again, the magnitude of that exposure isn't that great, even, you know, for the banks to absorb a 10, 20 percent negative equity. It's not like the housing market in 2008 where, you know, you could have billions or trillions of dollars worth of exposure. It's not that bad. Is there any car that's in a bubble right now that you disagree with? Like I said, a lot of the cars that have really exploded in the last little while are situations where the market or the economy is not as good as it used to be. And so that means that the owners of those cars at large would not turn down the recent highest price if they were offered it. And so that means that theoretically, they're going to start trying to sell a lot of cars. And so if F12s are actually worth $500,000 when they were worth $200,000 last year, that has to equalize, right? Because people aren't going to rebuy their car at that number tomorrow if they have the option. And so those are bubbles, right? That. Something's got to give. Either there has to be a continuous flood of, you know, new interest in the cars, or they've got to get to a point where, you know, the market comes back down and the bubble pops. But I don't think it's going to pop that dramatically. I think it's just going to be like, oh, yeah, they're only worth what they were worth yesterday plus a little bit. So if we hit a recession, what do you think happens first? I don't think cars are the, you know, canary in the coal mine for a recession. Like, you know, home inventory is always a good thing. But the canary in the coal mine for the next recession is going to be unemployment. If AI causes unemployment, which we know it does, we don't know the extent to which it is. But, you know, if we start to get to a point where there is 9%, 10%, 12% unemployment, especially as we even contemplate what 20%, 25% unemployment would look like, which is what some of these guys are forecasting, that's where you start to really, really worry. You know, I think there are. There are other interesting indicators of, you know, if we start to see lower aspiration, right? If people just become a lot more content to not work hard or accumulate any wealth, they become very apathetic. And lazy is not the right word, but it just becomes trendier to not care about anything aspirational. That's horrifying, right? Because then you don't have a labor market. You don't have people that are willing to work hard, all that. It's already starting. I was going to ask you if you thought that was already starting. Oh, because you're so lazy. Is that what you're pointing at? That's not a joke. This guy's not pulling his weight. I see it. Yeah. I mean, way more words tonight. But, you know, I think, yes, there is a lot of that starting. And what I hope is that Gen Alpha recognizes this and they start to enter a workforce where, you know, there's just a vacuum of motivation. And they can just supersede their bosses and their bosses' bosses so fast just by working hard and trying. And I think that's the biggest opportunity for young people today. Yeah. What do you think is the future for our economy in the next five years? I am probably not the right person to ask. You are the right person to ask, though. I think there are so many trends that are wildly troubling. Things like you should not buy a house, you should rent. Maybe economically this can be justified, but there is no greater creation. Of wealth in the history of the world than the equity component, principal payment, a component of your mortgage payment. Yes, you could be disciplined and save that exact amount in a good investment product over time and come out ahead. But the likelihood that you will do that without fail is zero. The likelihood that you will make your mortgage payment is really, really high. And so, yes, there might be a net loss or a. Parasitic effect, but like people should buy homes. It is the there's a reason that most millionaires are homeowners and it's not because they're wealthy enough to buy homes. It's because long term equity payments matter. So things like that, this dry, this idea that you should not go to college. Well, sure, it's really hard to justify two hundred fifty thousand dollars in student loans over time, but at the same time, having adulthood with training. Wheels for a few years after you're eighteen years old versus going on the workforce has a lot of value. And so I think that's something where, you know, we need to start reevaluating some of these popular, you know, mean worthy social trends that work well in infographics and say, you know what? Maybe that's not actually good for society for us to move in certain directions when we extrapolate over decades and generations. So what's your advice to your own children in terms of what they should be doing in the future? Well, none of the. Jobs that I've pretty much had even existed when I was their age. And so I get invited to a lot more career days as a YouTuber than a used car salesman. And that's one of the things we talk about is like, you know, most of the things that you're going to end up making money doing are jobs that don't exist yet. So adaptability is the most valuable commodity, the ability to say, all right, this is the landscape that I am facing and these are the things that I may want to accomplish. And how do I overlay that with the talents and the gifts that I have and the things that I've learned? To create opportunity, because it's not going to look like it did for, you know, my parents' generation. Certainly most of the people my age where you just kind of enter the work, go to a job fair, pass out some resumes, get a real job, you know, picket fence and all. And how do you teach them that quality? You put them in uncomfortable situations where they have to adapt. You celebrate the times where they didn't know exactly how to succeed, but they prevailed. They overcame. You give them adversity so that they can have a little bit of a, you know, shallower pool. Sometimes when they jump in. And again, I think you just hope and pray. And what's your long-term plan with VinWiki? You know, it's interesting because, you know, we've been making content nearly daily for about the same amount of time. And seeing what's happened in the space over that period is so wild. I think that, you know, the opportunity when we first started was like you could almost make a living. And then it became, well, you could make a pretty decent living. And then it became, well, you might be able to even support a co-star or a staff or a facility. Or something like that. Or maybe you could buy a Bugatti with a giant irresponsible loan. Like that didn't exist when we started. And so now that does exist. And then now we're kind of going, I think the pendulum is swinging in the opposite direction where the appeal of calling yourself a content creator or YouTuber is so high that people are coming in and like, as long as I can like pay my bills, I'm happy to do it. And so they're making content that's really, really good and relatively inexpensive. And so it's noisy. And for good reason. The platforms are working. They're getting the opportunity. They are out there making, you know, $5,000 to $10,000 a month making content. And that's amazing. But, you know, that doesn't support all of the infrastructure. And so, you know, when I think about the future of Venwiki, I think about it kind of in the same way in the context of content creation to say that, you know, it's going to change. We are the old people in the room. And we see, in most cases, some decline in viewership. 10, 20, 30%. Relative to what it was maybe at its high five, four, three years ago. And I think that that's okay. I think we all have kind of a life cycle. And that may result in reinvention. It may result in some experimentation. It may result in, you know, just saying it's been amazing. And I see no reason not to keep making the next podcast or inviting the next guest to tell a car story. And that we just sort of ride it into whatever that becomes. I think as the noise goes up, the dedication also goes up. The people that, you know, want to walk up to you in an event or the guy that sees you at the airport says, man, I just want to do this. You just love your content. I love what you're doing. doing. I appreciate you putting it out there and the things that you stand for. And so, you know, to me, that's really the future is we, we continue doing it because it's, it's working so far. And I think the future for you, by the way, is in your back catalog videos, because a lot of them don't have you in it. And my gosh, I mean, the amount of value that someone would be able to get by owning your back catalog. Well, there have been different places that pop up to do that, to pay you money for that sort of thing. I've loved that because they all call because Venwiki is enough, not me, that as they think about the value in the automotive vertical, they find me and we talk about it. And so seeing all the different ways that people are offering, you know, debt products, equity products, repurposing products, platform deployment, and all that, I think is really, really interesting because it is like you say, that is the way that we make the most of the opportunity. And I kind of view it on two fronts. Like, yes, I need to extract the most value as one can, because it is my career, but I also need to be the right steward of the audience. To know that, like, to do well by the storytellers and to do well by what we're doing. That's why we try to, you know, raise the stakes with Car Trek and other, you know, car buying and other things like that, the adventures, but also just to make sure that there's value. So who do you think of all of the car YouTubers is the worst with money? But, you know, I'd like to think there's a bigger picture where that he's really going to put it together. And that will, yeah, certainly run to second place, which is also pretty easy to define. But, you know, I think that it's, it's interesting because all of our content has different demands, right? Of what people are there to see. You know, sometimes they want to see you be really, really smart. And sometimes they don't. And sometimes they want to see you buy really, really good cars. And sometimes they think you're really going to put your life together and make all the right decisions. And sometimes you don't. So who is it? I don't know. I can't really put a face on it. Okay, cool. That's fair. Who is the best with money? Daddy Doug. It's always Doug DeMuro has certainly kind of beaten the game in this form. And I think it's great to see that. I think, you know, you look at the success of Hoonigan is also great. The guys that started Donut did really well. In most of those cases, post acquisition, it's not as good. And I think that is sort of the biggest thing that the industry would solve is to try to figure out what do we offer in terms of a transitional plan or an opportunity to scale that really makes the most sense. Cool. Perfect. Thank you. You're going to come say hi? Oh, hello. Look who we have on here. How did Mr. Bullion do? It was great. Rubbish. Fantastic. Great. Terrible. There's very few people who are as good as a speaker, really. No ums, no ahs. No example of what to do versus what not to do when I show up, basically, right? Every story needs a bookend. Are you guys wearing matching watches? Oh, goodness. Look at this. I got a GMT. You got a sub. Okay. Yeah, pretty close. You should have worn your sub, Jack. I know. I didn't know. Oh, my God. I didn't join the club. We didn't even send the memo out. So explain what brings you to Vegas. I got this guy hired at Barrett-Jackson. You got him a job. He had to work with me. That's it. Some of the old guard there, they're busy. They have other things going on. So I got Ed for Las Vegas for the auction first time. So he'll be up on the block of me doing commentary on TV. So it's television, Ed. It's live. We're not accustomed to such things. Are you nervous going live? No. How many cars do you think Tyler's going to buy? Too many is how many he's going to buy. But they have never lost money hiring Tyler. I can tell you that much. Is it true that he's going to spend the money back on the cars? Oh, and more. Always. Yes. They give you a line of credit, Tyler? No. It's available. I'm sure they got a table for it. Oh, my gosh. Cool. Well, thank you so much. I really appreciate this. Thank you. Thank you for doing this and coming out to Vegas filming with us. It's worked great. And we'll link to all of your information down below in the description. And for the video that we do together, I'll link to it as well. Thank you so much. I appreciate you having me. Oh, and by the way, for all the channel members out there, huge thank you. If you want to see our next episode that's already live early for channel members, here's the trailer for it. Elon Musk, the world's richest person, has also become the world's first trillionaire. And every civilization that has rose has fallen. Because of a growing wealth gap. At what point, though, does the wealth gap get so big that all of a sudden something has to break? It is profitable to keep you financially stupid. It is profitable to keep you poor. Most Americans today would rather look rich than be rich. Over 40% of us are unfamiliar with Roth IRAs, money market accounts, and high-yield savings. It is so rigged, it is unfair. It is rigged towards investors. So what do you think is the biggest risk for the economy that no one is going to see coming? Right now. We have about $40 trillion of national debt. We are spending about $2 trillion a year that we don't have right now. Do you think it's a negative that right now stocks are near their all-time highs? The best investors, because, don't sell. And what can the average person do to protect themselves? You're one paycheck away from your family being broke. Because if you want to be rich. It's incredible. We had so much fun filming it. So with that said. Enjoy, and it's ready to watch right now. Cool. Thanks so much. Till next time. I think GTA is a magical moment for our culture. So what's your biggest trade coming up? Like, it's going to be phenomenal. What about. I'm not excited about it. I don't own any right now. But I still think the main trade is on take two. What are your thoughts on. I love to see you falling here. I don't know when I'm going to make my big move. To heavily lever back into it. But it's probably going to happen at some point in the next few months. I'll see you next time. I'll see you next time.