Morgan Rielly's Future, NHL Expansion, Avoiding Offer Sheets, and More ft. Dan Rosen

(upbeat music) The one thing you should all know about me by now, anyone that's followed my career going back to 1994 when I first started is I am very petty. And I was reminded of my pettyness. Oh, by the way, welcome to the sheet once again. Thursday, August 20th, there's your time and date stamp just after 1 o'clock Eastern here as we broadcast live from our downtown nation network studios. Dan Rosen from NHL.com will be stopping by here in a couple of moments. I am very petty, Zach. You probably already know that from working with me for a couple of years now. But I was reminded how petty I was, about 15 minutes ago when I walked across the street to get a coffee from Tim Hortons. You know, I can't even remember when this happened, but I remember I got all into a lather about Tim Hortons once, and you wanna know what it was about? I'll give you a guess. What do you think I got myself all worked up about? And this has something to do with hockey folks. What do you think I got all worked up about? About Tim Hortons, a number of years ago. A mislabeling of somebody's number that was on something, but they didn't actually wear that number for set team. Okay, I like the way you're thinking, and it does very much sound on brand for me. No. I don't even remember when it happened, but when I noticed it, I got all upset, and that was when they dropped the possessive apostrophe from the S, because it was no longer about the player, and then it just became like a general brand. And it was supposed to be about Tim Man. It was supposed to be about Tim Hortons Man. It used to be about the defenseman Man, and the Tim Hortons bear hug, man. It used to be about that guy, and then they dropped the possessive apostrophe, and it no longer became about the guy anymore. Okay, so I am-- - Check out. - No, it like honestly do. Like that really does check out for like how my brain works. But today, in that spirit off the top of the program here, before Dan joins us, and then I'll probably get Dan to weigh in on the minutia of this thing. I wanna talk about, and if you can throw the tweet up here, it's really awesome. The Anaheim ducks put out a banger of a tweet. Okay, so they acquire Cruise Lucius from the Pittsburgh Penguins in exchange for future considerations. Hold that tweet there, hang on, because Penn's Empire DM'd me a great one. Future considerations is named Cutter Gochi for Maximum Chaos, by the way. That's a wink back at our show on Tuesday. Thanks for that one, Penn's Empire. So this is Anaheim announcing the trade with the Pittsburgh Penguins, Cruise Lucius for future considerations, more on future considerations in a couple of seconds. But then, here's the follow-up. What else do we get from the Anaheim ducks? Oh, hang on, I'm getting the weight finger. From our producer, I'm getting the standby finger. I mean, they hold on, we're getting a cute up here. Do you have it? - I do have it. It won't go up on the screen. - Oh no, I want you to read it out for us. - It just says, Mr. Considerations, you were a joy to work with during your time with us best of luck to you in Pittsburgh. - Yes, there you go. That is the follow-up from the Anaheim ducks, to which Penn's Empire says, future considerations gotta be Cutter Gochi. I'm gonna ask Dan Rose about Cutter Gochi here coming up in a couple of moments when he joins us, but what it does, and we got a lot to get to on today's program. And trust me, it's gonna be more Newsy than frivolous, but we're gonna start off with frivolity here and future considerations. My favorite, and I think we mentioned this at some point on the program, and I actually called Lou Nanny to verify the story. My favorite future considerations was from 1982. Oh, there you go, he got it up there. I don't know, hey, it's okay, man, technology's our friend. Mr. So future considerations, I think for some fans, kind of leaves him one night. What does future considerations mean? And sometimes, it just ends up meaning nothing, right? Like sometimes, it just, it's just there as a sort of placeholder, and then everybody forgets about it and nothing happens. I remember Mike Keenan told me, him and Sir Tsevarid, when they did the Chellio Savard trade, at the end of it, even after the trade was done, Savard said, "My owner still wants a second round pick." And Keenan said, "Well, we'll do another trade, I'll throw in a second round pick, and that'll even out this deal." Then both of them got fired. To which Montreal, Canadians, fans can justly say, "Hang on, Chicago's the second round pick, going back to the Chellio's deal." But I digress. So my favorites, my favorite future considerations, is from 1982, and it's Bill Torrey, legendary general manager of the New York Islanders, and Lou Nanny, one of my favorite human beings in the world, then manager of the Minnesota Nurstars. And Lou was looking for a little bit of toughness and looking for some increased ticket sales with the Minnesota Nurstars. And he made a trade for the rights to a guy by the name of Frank Beaton. Now, Frank Beaton was a legendary tough guy, mainly in the WHO, from Nova Scotia. I believe he is a Piper now, or at least a part-time Piper. And I got some of the semi-pictures of Frank Beaton piping in a pub. Anyway, so they pick up Frank Beaton, who once upon a time when he was young and was a gunslinger, his nickname was never, and then after about five or six years, his nickname turned into seldom, and then towards the end of his career, his nickname turned into always. So Torrey doesn't want anything for Beaton. So the deal they work out is, Lou says to Bill, send me Frank Beaton, and I'll buy a steak dinner at the Palm, legendary steak restaurant. And Torrey says, okay, you're on. Lou filed it with the NHL, like filed the Minnesota Nourstars acquire Frank Beaton from the New York Islanders for a steak dinner at the Palm. That was filed and then rejected by the NHL, and he was instructed to put future considerations. I asked him if he ever ended up having the dinner with Bill Torrey, and he said, yes, it was around, I think, 200 or 250 bucks, and he got the rights to Frank Beaton. Frank never, Frank seldom, Frank always, the three stages of that tough guy's career. Anyhow, there's a number of interesting future considerations that have gone on through history. One of my favorite ones outside of the steak dinner at the Palm in the Frank Beaton deal with Lou Nanny, and Bill Torrey, Dale DeGrey, who's now the general manager of the Niagara Ice Dogs of the OHL, former NHLer. When he played in, I would have been the International League, was traded from Cleveland to Indianapolis in exchange for hotel bills that Cleveland had racked up in Indianapolis. As a way to get the hotel bills off the books, they sent Dale DeGrey defenseman to Indianapolis. There's a number of them. I remember there was one team that did a future considerations deal, and what they ended up doing was doing an extra exhibition game in that team's town, and of course, that team got to keep the gate receipts, et cetera, et cetera. For more on this exciting future considerations conversation, and we'll actually get into Hockey Talk here. Here's Dan Rosen from NHL.com. And also, the NHL at the Rink podcast was Sean work. Dan Thurstval, thanks so much for being a board today. I don't know if you want to jump on the frivolity train of future consider. I mentioned before you come on. My favorite one was Lou Nanny and the late Bill Torrey in 1982, and it was actually filed with the NHL, but was rejected, the famous stake dinner, which Lou did have with Bill. It was like a $200 dinner, but it was actually filed, and it would have been John Ziegler then. The NHL said, you have to save future considerations. We're not allowing a trade for a stake for a hockey player here. Do you have a favorite future considerations story? Well, not necessarily a story, but there are times where I wish we could go back to some of those days, because-- Oh, man. Incredible stories, they're just legendary stories that we just don't get now. Now it's business, now it's money, and it's big businesses. It should be, as it should be. Don't get me wrong. But I love that story. And maybe my favorite one that I just-- I actually had to refresh my memory on it, because I couldn't remember exactly what it was, but it was the Winnipeg Jets getting rid of Chris Draper to the Trit Reddlings for $1. Yep, this is what. Maybe that easy equivalent of $1.75 today. And all he does is go have a legendary career with the Detroit Reddlings. It makes Detroit Michigan at home, and stays there for a long time and everything. So that's a great-- that is a great one. But of course, another Redwing one that the Toronto Maple Leafs future considerations for Larry Murphy. And Larry Murphy goes with a cup twice with the Detroit Reddlings for future considerations. I wonder what those considerations were. I don't think they helped the Leafs up. Well, you know, as I was saying, like a lot of time, future considerations just sort of often do that into the ether. It's just something to have there for the trade tweet. But you're right. But that's the thing about-- and maybe we'll use this to dovetail to Morgan Riley here for a couple of seconds. The Maple Leafs, like, different-- I'm always interested in sort of what position fan bases get on. And for Toronto, it's always a defenseman. And you mentioned the big one in Larry Murphy. or if he goes on to Wednesday on the cups, I'll all fame all of it. But whether it's, you know, I mean, take your pick. Like, you know, Jake Gardner, Cory Cross, who else Thomas Cabralet for a while, Aki Burr, like you can run through a sort of litany of Def Brian McCabe had her for a while. Although he had, you know, the thing about McCabe was he always had the slap shot. So he could always get the fans back because like, he just pumped one in and the fans would be right there with him. But like the, the history of Toronto and defenders, like me believes fans will pick one defenseman and that defenseman will be emblematic of all the problems that that team faces. And for the past couple of years, that's been Morgan Riley. And I'm not sure how you look at it. But I look at it more like Morgan Riley wasn't going to work with Craig Baroube. His game is to gallop, his game is to skate. Craig Baroube likes his defenseman around the nets. So as we saw at the Hockey Night in Brampton event last night, Morgan Riley essentially saying, you know, I'm happy to be here and stay here. I'm glad to still be a Toronto Maple Leaf. Do you have a thought Dan on the Riley situation in Toronto? Let's start there. - Well, the one thing I always think of when it comes to this type of stuff is, okay, if you didn't have him, who would replace him? Right? Who would you have that would do what Morgan Riley does or whoever that might be, that other player? And then you, when you don't have that player, it's when you start to recognize the value of that player. I always, I'm a firm believer in that. When that player is no longer there, and you don't get fair value in return for that player, and then you kind of try to moneyball it, if you will. Right? - Yeah. - Who, the year, oh well, we don't have that guy who can gallop down the ice. We don't have that guy who can help us on the power play. We don't have that guy who's going to contribute off, you know, 50 points offensively from, you know, from the back end to 50, 60 points. Right? We don't have that now. We did, but we ran him out. Right, and so I always think of it that way, and I look at the Leafs, and I don't think Riley is, like, I look at Morgan Riley and I say, is he a top 16 number one defenseman in the National Hockey League? No, I don't think so. But he's, he's a good defenseman league. He provides you a lot. He needs to be in a system that works for his game. Jim Hiller system works for his game. Craig Barubi's system necessarily didn't work for his game. And so we look at it in that way, and I think that this is another fresh start for a player like Riley and for a team like the Leafs with some familiarity. Like, and I wasn't blown, I mean, and be honest with you, like I wasn't blown away when they brought Jim Hiller back. I was like, okay, you know, like that's, that's not blowing my hair back. Like blowing my hair back would have been pulling John Cooper out of Tampa Bay to bring it to Toronto. Well, you know what I mean? Like that's, that's a little bit different. Yeah. But it could work because he players are familiar with them. Yes. The coaches, the coaches from his time with Babcock, yeah. Absolutely. Right? The players are familiar with the players. And it could be the simple change that the Leafs need to get back to what people believe the Leafs could be, but then I'll bring another question into this. Okay. What, what, what can the Leafs be this season? See, okay, you got us to the magic question. I think that everybody is asking, who's a Maple Leafs fan, or just a hockey observer. And the way that I've, because the real answer is a terrible radio/podcast answer. And that answer is, I don't know. Like it's awful. We live in the attention economy and hot take economy and I'm given the worst possible answer. I don't know. And the way that it was sort of framed with Dennis is like this. I don't know whether what we're seeing or what we saw from John Chaco is just motion or is it actual movement. Like there've been a lot of things that have happened. Like they've done a lot and shuffled in. Here's all these names and you recognize this guy and it's remember Playoff Bob and Right Shot Radish. Helping the power, like there's been a new name and the whole bottom six is different. Personally, I think it's still gonna come down to Canasta Matthew's score. What's William Nieland are gonna be like? John Tavares, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Sure, Radish on the power play we all suspect will help. But I think it's gonna come down to some of the usual suspects. My question is, was it motion or was it movement? Did it move it forward and we're not gonna know? At the end of the day too. And I know there's a conversation turns clocked you too well. He's in great shape and he doesn't play his age. At the end of the day, like they just went out and got the oldest gold tender in the NHL. - Well, that's it. And the team that we've always, we've looked at for the past several seasons as being the team that makes all the right moves. They decided to move on from him, right? So if they decided to move on from him and go get like what Bob's got a three year deal, 21 million, they picked up Mark Schram on a two year deal, six million per, right? So a year or less, a million less per. Mark Schram's not another one. I've blown my hair back but he could be really good for that team if that team stays healthy. And you know, that team looks loaded again and we'll see where they're at, of course. But from the leaves perspective, they went out and got the oldest goalie who was available, gave him a three year deal. - Yeah. - And he's coming off his worst seat. - Yep, so all of those things, like, so what does that mean for Bob? Like is Bob coming off his worst season? Because he was exhausted and the team was exhausted and they lost Parkov on day one and it just blew up there. Or was Bob coming off his worst season? Because he's 37 years old and at some point, a goalie hits a decline, right? Like that, we're not gonna know, we're not gonna know the answer, but I know for a fact that the defense, he's gonna play in front of a bit behind, in front of his, not as good as what he had in Florida. - That's still the issue there with the Maple Leafs, right? Who's gonna get the puck to Matthews and can they still improve this, this back end? - And the other question I have with, listen, Darren Radish, what a great story. An incredible story comes kind of out and I know where it does what he does. Nikita Kutrov's not feeding him the puck anymore on the power, right? So, Bob from the point, but Kutrov's not feeding him the puck. Who's feeding him the puck? How many, the only one who's shooting? Everybody wants a shoot, right? So, there are questions. So right now to answer your question, I give like, I guess a semi-hot take, I would say, you know, it didn't really move the needle forward. It's kind of just motion at this point. But I, you have to leave room, obviously, because we haven't seen anything yet. The hardest part for Toronto, for me, is the division. Where do they stand in the division? Now, I'll go to bat on this and say, five teams from this division are going to the playoffs. Right? It's loaded. There's five, the Metro's gonna, you gotta finish in the top three in the Metro to make the playoffs. I don't think you're gonna be good enough at fourth in that division to make the playoffs. I could be wrong because maybe the Atlantic just beats its other-- - That's possible, right? That's possible. I love Florida where they stand. Tampa's still gonna be right there. I love what I've seen from Montreal all over the past couple of seasons. They're gonna, I'd be shocked if they don't continue on an upward trajectory, especially now that their goal-tending seems to be somewhat figured out, right? What's Buffalo? What's Boston? What's Ottawa? Like, there's questions there, and you ask the same one with Toronto. What's Toronto, right? So they could be that team that finishes fourth or fifth in that division, but they could be the team that finishes last again. - The dovetailing that is this. If the Leafs are in, because we all suspect strongly, and I think, insanely, that provided they're healthy in the Brad Martian surgery, which kind of won by surprise, is a factor, but probably only for 10, maybe 15 games to start the season. If the Maple Leafs are in, who's out? If we're putting the Florida Panthers in, who we take an out, and if we're putting the Toronto Maple Leafs in, who are we taking out? I think one of the, just a quick thought on the Metro too. I think a wild card here is, if there's a team in the Metropolitan, and whether it's Philadelphia, whether it's Pittsburgh, and one of the candidates that people are looking at and saying, I'm not sure they can do it again. If they can stay healthy all year, being the ultimate wild card here, maybe we see four coming out of the Metropolitan, but I'm with you. It does very much look and feel and sound, like it's gonna be five. But if the Maple Leafs are in, provided Florida's in, so who the two teams that are coming out? - Yeah, I mean, you look at Ottawa's the first one you look at, right? I mean, they lose Brady and, you know, where are they at right now? That's a big loss. They still have some guys who are in or entering their prime, right? So that they have a lot of guys who are in or entering their prime. How do they respond? What kind of identity are the Senators? You're gonna have without Brady Kichug versus what they had with Brady Kichug. So that's a question. Ottawa would be the first team I'd look at. And obviously, like, considering I said, Tampa Montreal and, you know, Florida, you know, I gotta look at the next one. I think I would have to look at is Boston, like they kind of did things last year that were, were Pittsburgh-like. Like I didn't see Boston being that type of team that they were last year, but a hundred-point team. So do they have a drop-off? I don't know. And the biggest question, though, can Buffalo do it again? Right? Buffalo figured out, and they can do it again. I don't think, I think it would be foolish to say or suggest that Buffalo's gonna be the same team. Obviously, they lost Byron to Chicago. They lose Alex Talk to the Washington Capitals. So I don't think it'll be the same team, but I still. think that there's enough there that is I'm looking at Buffalo. I'm not saying like that's like a fluke or that's the blip on the radar and then they go back to being a mediocre slash bottom-end team. I still look above for low and say that's still a playoff team. Like as far as like loxco, I look above for long ago like I'm not worrying about the Buffalo Sabers being on the I am about Ottawa. I'm no longer about Montreal. I'm with you. I think we look at I think we look at Montreal and say like okay more than have already turned the corner and they're there. Hang on a second here. We had a quick one. This just handed to me this breaking. Elvis Merz-Leakins underwent successful shoulder surgery on Monday no timetable has been set for his return at this time. He's on the last year of his contract. Jack Reeves recently reupt of course as we all know. Got into the arbitration office. I don't think both sides ever got into the room together before that deal all came together. But just a quick thought since we are on the east here on the metropolitan and where Columbus figures into all of this and of course the big question now is what's happening with Adam Phantilly? Yeah listen I think Columbus figures in probably towards the bottom again like I just I don't see enough of their guys taking that next step to be real impact you know guys but you know and Phantilly is it's it's a great question. He's one of a couple obviously that we've got to see where where this goes and he hasn't exactly lit the world on fire but he's been a good player on on a team that hasn't been all that that good and there's a little bit of a pressure point there now with the Zach Warensky situation this summer although they've tried to walk that back. Yep we've tried to run that back I should say like you know sprint the backwards on that one for a while I don't know I don't know where Columbus is but I but again they're they're sort of a team in them that same mix like what are the devils right I mean with the goaltending that the devils have are we relying on that can jack you stay healthy right it is yes we're brat going to be that impact score that we believe he should be and always you know it will be well what are what's going on with Doug he Hamilton can Brett Pesci stay healthy like what are the devils what are the islanders under Peter Bore we saw him for four games four games we know what we know what what shape for his right we know that Shen is there now we know they got whore vatten bars out on what what not and you know they're goaltending is really solid but what are they under Peter Bore because we really didn't see it you know we don't we don't really know and then another great one is for me the Rangers like the like they they made some moves that you would say addressed issues that they had second pair D yep look much better right with better with Marcus Patterson and Sean Derzy and you have Vlad Gavricov and Adam Fox is your top pair I mean that's a top it's a really solid top four they lost Trocheck how do they you know they traded Trocheck together as you answer that question so now JT Miller slides back to the middle okay well that means you're replacing somebody on the wing and you're maybe a short a top six forward somebody's going to have to step up there there's questions there for the Rangers they can take a jump they can make improvement but yeah maybe they don't I don't know I'm of the mind that Carolina won Washington two after that it's it's it's jump ball and again like we'll we'll see how it plays out injuries of course the the ultimate wildcard here but it seems if like there's just like this this group like there's Carolina there's Washington um and then there's that group that that mix and can Pittsburgh do it again can Dan Vlodar you know channel his inner Yuri hola check once again well that's a dated reference go and check all this year I just love that he was great I use better trechiac come on with with that one out there for the hot take but like like on his like Vlodar was incredible last he can he do like is that really Dan Vlodar like there's a lot of questions in the Metropole and that's why I look at those like that that third spot and if anyone else is going to qualify here who says healthy like that's it and you can you can I mean you can say that about Washington too because yeah as much as we like what we see from Washington from a short-term perspective right long term this this is not a team that's sustainable for five to ten years but on a short-term perspective it looks pretty good but there's guys who are 30 plus here yeah a lot of miles on them can they stay healthy uh Logan Thompson can can he do it again right I mean there there's there's questions less so I also think they're so well-coached the Washington capitals that they grade they that they can handle injuries here and there and still be a team that stays quite competitive because they're just they they're very very well-coached by Spencer Carberry and his staff but there's some questions there there's to me there's no questions about Carolina other than Seth Jarvis is he going to be all right and can they do you know or is there going to be a Stanley Cup hangover but they've been a machine they're the same type of team expect the same things from them they should they should be the favorite to win that division so yeah we're just swinging back to Washington here because Chris Patrick at NHL.com it's some really interesting comments about how essentially the the the offer sheet for Leo Carlson change the universe and if you can throw the quote up here if we if we have it essentially the Washington capitals general manager saying look I'm trying to do I'm trying to do things as quickly as possible here we've had some discussions this summer talking about sort of um and I'm hopeful we can continue to have some discussions here that's not something I want to let play out I'd rather get something done if we can it makes sense for both sides because I do think what happened this past summer is definitely potentially a harbinger of things to come in the league so I'd like to have something done sooner than later with him if it works for their side everyone's scared of our fays now yeah manager is scared of our fays I do wonder I wonder how Danny Breyer is going to be treated at the next general manager's meeting right we okay quick pause on that so I had a conference so Tuesday show being wish before I was driving in and I have a conversation with someone who asked me the question they said is it going to be tough for Danny to work with other teams this year and the old school me said yeah of course yeah you do something like that I think of like Bob gaming surge of our in that feud and then the new school me says no because you can't think like that you can't like if it's right for your team you can't worry about how you know Danny Breyer like rise the salaries the rose the salaries for San Jose was celebrity and rose it for you know for for Columbus and Chicago and there guys like you can't think like that anymore it was go it's gonna go there anyway right the cap's going up it's gonna go there anyway maybe it's going hard for guys that we didn't expect it to go for right away right like yeah when Hughes is gonna get there kale McCarr is gonna get there Capri's all got there we know McDavid's eventually gonna get there right we didn't expect it for Leo Carlson maybe because he's off of the entry level right okay fine so it's getting it you're you're basically doing that and and it's skipping a step but Danny Breyer did that because he felt it was in the best interest of the Philadelphia Flyers to do that and he should walk into any meeting that he goes into and go yeah with his chest out going yeah I did what's best for my team and you do this every would and should do the same and if I'm every single owner in the NHL I'm saying why aren't my guys doing that you know so the Carlson thing is interesting because I was talking to someone in Sweden towards the end of the season and the feeling there amongst a lot of a hockey people and Swedish agents was someone is gonna offer sheet Carlson and as we find out there were four teams there were four four teams that were in on an offer sheet for Carlson and listen I mean you slow play it with some of these guys who yeah who like you you're gonna you're gonna run into that and and Carlson is one of those guys right I mean because oh yeah look at the got look at the teams that are winning the Stanley Cup they've got that two way now Carolina has a couple of them in that way so they don't have like the one Bergeron or the one Barkov you know what I mean but yeah they they've got they've got a few of them okay but like Carlson's that guy who you just like put him down the middle he's my number one center he's gonna take care of everything he can run 22 minutes a night if I have to run 22 minutes a night and you know what he's gonna win the selfie he could should win the heart boom he could win the cup and it's gonna happen in the next 10 years right so I get it I get it because he's one of those guys he absolutely is one of those guys Cutter Goethe is a little bit different he's an elite goal score but he's not one of those guys right he's one of those he's a different guy he's a 50 goal he could be a 50 goal score he certainly we know he's already a 40 goal score but you slow play it with some of those guys like Carlson those are the guys that everybody looks to and says I need that particular guy if I get that guy my entire team builds around that guy let's get to Anaheim here and and Cutter Goethe as you mentioned like look you pay for goals like that at the end of the day ask any manager goals are expensive you got and you got to pay for goals where that number adds ends up that's going to be fascinating because the only leverage that Cutter Goethe has is I'm not signing and if I don't have a contract I'm not going like that's the only leverage that he has As here, as we all know, not eligible for an offer sheet. There's a couple of things here. Everyone with Anaheim is so focused on, and rightfully so, the number that Leo Carlson got, because that was a jaw dropper. You remember down like everybody, that was a ball, holy stop what you're doing. Start making your calls, this is insane. But maybe not so quietly at the time, but it's kind of gone away. Pavel Minchikov deal is an absolute terror for managers around the league as well. 7.2 times five. - Yeah. - I don't think that we thought, I don't think anyone thought that Carlson was gonna be an 18 million dollar player, and here we are, and I don't think that we thought that Pavel Minchikov was gonna be a 7.2, but here we are. - Here we are, yeah, and now it brings it right to the go-to-a thing, and it is interesting to me, because I'll say this is a league, 'cause this is what we know, but I would say that in sports in general probably, but I can't speak in general for it. I'll also speak to just the national hockey league. It's a league that operates on deadlines and on pressure points, right? - Yes. - And completely, right? It operates on deadlines and pressure points, and there will come a point here with Cutter Go-to-a, with somebody's gonna have to budge at some point, somebody's gonna have to budge. And the team, in my opinion here, from a player with limited options, team holds the cards, because it does not benefit, it certainly doesn't benefit the ducks if Cutter Go-to-a doesn't play, but it absolutely does not benefit Cutter Go-to-a if he doesn't play, right? I mean, there's no benefit at all for him. - So, Pa's on that. I was thinking about that coming in, and he's like, "Okay, I'll talk to Dan about Anaheim." Like, where can we go here with Cutter Go-to-a? Here's what I wonder about. If he didn't get his way, or force his way, out of Philadelphia. Like, we've seen players do this before, okay, it's not working on whatever leverage points I have, I can do it, I'm gonna get. Here we are, five minutes later. And already, there's, like, you know what I mean? Like, if he didn't go through what he went to, to get to Anaheim, could he have more easily said, I've already, I have some grace that I haven't used up. I can still do the withholding services, and it's not going to damage who I am. But he already went through the Philadelphia thing. - Yeah, potentially, but I also, you know, I'll look at it from Cutter Go-to-a's perspective, where you only have so many years to do this, right? - Completely true. - You don't know what happens tomorrow, right? You step on the ice tomorrow, something happens, and that could be it for you, right? It's a dangerous sport. You know, I remember once I had a conversation with Brian Burke, and he's like, listen, we play with hard boundaries and knives on our feet, okay? (laughing) This is a dangerous sport, right? - Yeah. - Right, exactly, right? But from Cutter, so it's athletes today, more than ever before are, they're not discounting the team aspect of it, because hockey players innately are team guys, but they're still saying, I gotta get mine. I gotta do what's best for me. - They should. - As they should, as they absolutely should. And listen, you know, Connor McDavid did what's best for the Oilers for a couple of years, right? And now we'll see what happens, but then he's gonna do what's best for Connor McDavid. No matter what happens, the next thing he's gonna do is what's best for Connor McDavid, right? - Yep, but Cutter Go-to-a, like, this is who he is. He's gonna do what's best for Cutter Go-to-a, and I'm putting myself in his mind, but his belief is what's best for Cutter Go-to-a will be best for the Anaheim Ducks, as well, right? So, like, that's how probably he thinks. So, you offer him, what was the deal? Four years, 52 million, that was the reported deal, right? I think he's saying, no, you wanna give me 13 million a year? That 13 million a year, two years from now, I'm gonna be a 60 goal score. That's what I'm gonna be. So, I'm gonna be worth way more than that, but at some point he's gonna reach, there's gotta be a point here, and it's whether it's day one of training camp, day 15, you know, start of the regular seat, whatever it might be, where somebody's gonna have to move on their position, and more than likely, it's the player who moves on his position. - Yes. - And he's still gonna become very wealthy, by the way. - Of course, certainly. - Yeah, the pressure point then becomes, like, let's say, camp arrives, and it's quick this year. We all know, like, 84 games, and it's a quick camp. Oh, it's so nice. Quick camp, here we go. - It's crazy because I actually had a conversation, I was talking to Mike Sullivan about this. He said, we have basically 12 days where, and we have preseason games take up four of those days, I believe, and we have to have mandated days off. We have like six practices. - Yep, oh yeah, you know what, I feel for, the guys on PTOs, because Vets can only play two games, like, okay, good luck here, distinguishing yourself. So, quick camp, okay, let's say, nothing happens. Go cheese toe without a contract. The pressure point becomes, is Anaheim good out of the gate? Because expectations are high now. They've made it to the playoffs, right? The CMU Ali family got the return on investment, okay Pat? Enough for this, develop, develop, development. Let's show the horse, and they got to the playoffs. And they won, they beat the amateur only, Stanley Cup finalists. Like, great season for the Anaheim docs. But if they come out two and 12, and they can't score, then it changes. It becomes, it's a dangerous game to play. It's a totally dangerous game to play, because you're right. At a young age, it's so, it doesn't not benefit the player whatsoever to be out at that age, and that stage of his career. But if it's not there in the Anaheim docs, stumble out of the gate. Well, that, that's the gamble. That's the game you play on both sides, right? The other, the other thing I'll say too, especially with the, with a team like Anaheim, is if they come out of the gate two and 12 and cut her go to either, 40 goals score is not there, because he's not signed and attendance drops. Well, now there's some, some, that's other issues that are being looked at. That ownership is going to be like, we need to get this guy in, because our return on investment is going to be better than what we got right now, right? I can't, I can't remember seeing, maybe you can, a team that did so well, like, upward, upward, upward, upward, upward, finally get in there, just get, like, hammered with contract situations. Yeah. Like Carlson, Minchikoff, and now, and now Gouche, and they've had to completely redo that blue line. I don't think anybody loves the blue line. Like, the blue line has been decimated. And like, are all of a sudden the Anaheim ducks after building for so long, boys should take a step back. I know it's been a lot of time here in Anaheim. Yeah. Well, listen, that is the dangerous game you play, when you try to get top five picks for a couple of years in a row, right? Like, that, if they work out, you're going to have to pay them. And they're all going to come up right around the same time. And that's the dangerous game you play. And, you know, Montreal has found a way around that a little bit, because they've spread it out a little bit more with what they have. You know, the Chicago hasn't had the same impact, you know, with some of their guys as Anaheim's had. And obviously San Jose's had the impact certainly with one guy and a couple of more, they're hoping, you know, make that type of impact. But it's, it's, it's really interesting with, with the ducks, because it all kind of came to a head. And they, and they had such a good season too, that all these guys now all gained more leverage as well. You're true. OK, a couple of things quickly here. And I want to get to, to Germany in the global series. No general manager in Detroit still, no interviews, as we understand from our friend, from our friend Bob Duff. I wonder, like, look, Tyler Dello was just in general manager of the Carolina Hurricanes is, I believe, currently, cycling through Europe, could that be the hold up? I'm just trying to start an August conspiracy theory here today. But we know that they do want someone with an analytics, quote unquote, slant. So that becomes an obvious one. Tim Barnes in Washington would make sense, Sam Fincher, Buffalo, et cetera, et cetera. And there's the, the situation with Dylan Larkin, which sort of hangs out there as well. Turnkey is the company that's been hired. Len Perna, former executive director general sales with the illitch family, so there is that familiarity between the search firm and the family. But still, it's August 20th, and Detroit doesn't have a manager. It's a little weird. It is. And I was asked about this not too long ago. And I think my answer at the time was, well, it's a dead time in the league. So if you're going, we always hear it. And the red wings did this as well. We're going to take our time with this search. We're going to make sure that we do this in a methodical way to get the right person in, which, of course, you never know if it's the right person, until you actually-- Sure. --that person is actually in. But if there's a time to do that, it's right now, right? I mean, there's nothing much going on. So there is a pressure point for the red wings. I think that's the start of training. I can't imagine a team entering training camp without a general manager. That would be a little weird, right? I guess you can technically do it. You even stranger if you don't have a coach. That'd be even weirder. I guess, technically, you can do it, but it doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to me. So I guess that's the pressure point. point, but if you're going to take the time to do a methodical, deep dive type of search, well, July and August is the time to do it in the National Hockey. You know, mid-July, to August, the time to do it in the National Hockey League, you know, like, why not do it at that point, but eventually you're going to have to land on somebody. And they're really quiet. They're in Detroit. I mean, that's kind of the nature, it's the way it's been. So I wouldn't, you know, tomorrow, we could wake up and there could be a press release for all we know, right? So, uh, we shouldn't ever talk in the day on the podcast. I think for maximum chaos, because it's been one of those summers. Yeah. What do you think the reaction would be if the trade hire Jim Hughes? Well, that would be maximum chaos. That would be very, very interesting. I just cheer for great, I like them. I'm media 101. Cheer for the great story. Get, get Papa Hughes. Okay, let's close on this. I was happy to see this this morning. NHL Global Series 2027, going to Germany, Edminton and Boston announced. So far, those are obvious with, you know, Dry Sidal, Paturka, and of course, Marco Sturm, the head coach. You mentioned Brian Burke a couple of seconds ago with the hard boards and knives. When he was running the Toronto Maple Leafs, the Maple Leafs had an association with Mannheim. And I remember asking him about that. We had a Marley's game we're talking about. And he said that is going to be the rising power and hockey. Once they clean up their import rule, it's an athletic culture. There's a lot of money there. They love hockey. Again, they need to have more Germans actually playing and not just, you know, Canadians and Americans going in there for, you know, the end of end of their careers. But here we are. And every year, and we're going to max Calche this year, maybe a first round pick. Might be late, but Calche may end up being a first round pick. And there's another German first round pick going into into the NHL. Just, do you have a thought on just the rise of German hockey here? And I can't help but, you know, want to bring up that, you know, Bill Daley was on with Jimmy Murphy and Pierre McGuire the other day on their podcast and saying the word was inevitable. It is inevitable that the NHL expands into Europe. No time frame, obviously, but the word inevitable I think got on everybody's radar. Well, I mean, all the major pro sports leagues, in my opinion, are that has to be the next look you have. At some point, you burst. There's not enough cities that would be markets, right? And you burst out of the North American market and you burst overseas, right? Because they could be very strong markets. And we know they have historically, you know, in sports that they love have huge markets. You know, Munich is a perfect example of that, you know, with FC Bayern. I remember years ago, ice barren Berlin, I think, had an association with the LA King, same ownership, I believe. And, you know, there was years ago, the NHL started to dip its toes into the waters there, and then you hear about like the development of, you know, in manheim, right? And what they have, and what they're doing. And then you're seeing the fruits of that come across the league now, come into the National Hockey League. So it, to me, it was always a matter of time for the German market to, to hit in that way. And now it is hitting. And the league obviously makes a, you know, a big investment announcing that big investment today. Yeah, I was in Munich a couple of years ago with the Buffalo Sabers when SAP Garden opened. They, they, they, it was the Sabers were with Paturka, went and played their preseason. They had finished their training camp there and played a preseason game there. And literally there was, they were installing seats at the morning skate for that building. And I'm not kidding. They were installing seats at the morning skate and they filled the building that very night. And I was really not, I don't want to say I was blown away, but I was pleasantly surprised with, with what I saw there. I expected a sports crowd and a knowledgeable crowd. And then you saw that. And on top of that, you saw an activated building. You saw a lot ofliness. You saw interest. And I was like, this is where we're going. Like this is, this is going to be a place where we are playing regular season games soon enough. And here we go. Soon enough we are. So it's, it's a big market with, which is growing. And we needed to expand beyond Stockholm and Prague. We needed to, and, and health. Sure. We needed to expand beyond, you know, Sweden and Czechia and Finland to, to have more of a more business within the European market. And here it is. You know, I can't, and maybe this is like cynical business, you know, it all comes down to the, the mighty dollar here. But like, bluntly, like, there's a lot of money in Germany and a lot of money for sports. And when you look at, you know, I'll look at the San Jose sharks and their owner, Hassel Platner, you know, partners with, you know, Dietmar Hop, who now owns Mannheim and has for a long time and his son, Daniel founded SAP. And you mentioned SAP. Like, it all starts to make a lot of business sense too. But here's what I want to close with. One of the things that I love about European hockey and the Latvians are the best at this. Let's just be clear. Like, there's no fans like the Latvian fans. They love the best. Absolutely. The chanting, the singing, the scarves, like all of it. I don't know how to do it. But if someone said, if you could import one thing from European hockey culture into North America, that would be it. What would it be? What would it be for you? It would, it would never happen. Okay. I'll just put it out there right now. It would never happen. The first time I ever went over to Europe in this job that I'm in, this was now, we're talking 18 years ago. Okay. I went to Switzerland. And I was in Switzerland with the, who was I was with the Tampa Bay Lightning. I think I'd be honest. I can't even remember. But I remember Roman Eosi was playing for SC Burn at the time. Okay. And I went to a game at SC Burn. And I'm thinking maybe it was the Rangers. I think it was the Rangers, right? SC Burn against, I believe it was the Rangers. The standing room only crowd. No seats. Just, they took all the seats out. And it was just, you stand there and the chanting and it was non stop. And I was like, this is amazing. Let's remove seats in NHL buildings. Listen to one of the, we can all recall 2007 Stanley Cup final, that game seven in Carolina. Everybody stood for three periods. Everybody look at all the cutaways. Everyone's, everyone's standing. Everybody will see, so just give it a seat, see, give more living in there, by the way. One of the great traditions too is for the leading score to where the gold helmet. Do you think that, do you think that would ever fly in the NHL to have like, oh, my, so it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a shake in his head. Heart is that too much? Is that too euro, too euro for the, for North America? Yeah. There's, there's some limitations. Like, I don't need our guys in the NHL. We're in ads all over themselves. What we have right now is enough, but they're the ads in the face of circles. You watch the game, you're just like, oh, my, what is that? Where's the puck? Where, you know, or what am I watching? But there are some things. And the chanting and the, the, the chance in the fan, like that to me was so special when I first saw it. And you're 100% right about the lap, the lap times, the lap times are absolutely terrific. Yes, to the best, it's a, and it's the football, soccer, football, culture. That's there. And they have that there. I would love to see a little bit more of that. I mean, listen, in North America, we don't grow up with that. So we don't do it. We don't know it. It's not in there. They grow up with it. It's what they know. If we can bring some of that culture over here and have one or two teams start that, you know, one or two fan bases start that, it might catch on. And all of a sudden, 20 years from now, we're getting a lot more. Vancouver tried to do this with like a, you remember this day, like Vancouver tried to have like that section of the rink, like where it was sort of actually, and it didn't end up going anywhere. But like if you really sort of profoundly tried to do it, I don't know, I just, I just wonder if we ever get there. But then I remember like, look, I'm Canadian. I'm, I go to hockey games here and every hockey game that you go to, just because it's Canada and so protected. There's this element of like anxiety that comes with every game or like impending doom about something. Just go and enjoy a hockey game, everything. I can't believe he made that pass. There is that. There is that. So it's still supposed to be fun. We got to add. I think, yeah, I think it's still fun. But you know, add a little bit more of it, a little chance of, you know, but then you know what's going to happen. As soon as you do that, you like, take, create a section, everyone's going tarps off and it's going to create complete chaos. And it's going to be in the news for all the wrong reasons. Probably. Probably people have been having the nerve to have fun of the sports game. All right. Listen, you spent way too much time with me, the new bargain for, but I appreciate it. Always good catching up, Dan. You be well. We'll catch, we'll touch base soon. Absolutely. Thanks. Appreciate it, man. There is a great Dan Rosen from NHL.com. Also, you can listen to him on his excellent podcast NHL at the Rink with Sean Rark. The last one was just after free agent day, but I'm sure they'll get that one cooking in short order. Anything there for you, Philly, other than, you know, you don't want the gold helmet. No, it's not that I don't, it's not that I don't want the gold helmet. I think it's entertaining. I just think it is definitely too much here. It is too much here in North America. Come on gold helmet. Port of Target on a guy. My perspective is kind of changed a little bit and not necessarily that I've swung the other way of thinking that we have to do all these crazy different things but just a little bit more open to it. Like my girlfriend, she had no idea about hockey really. Like she'd gone to some games or whatever growing up here but her family's not from Canada. So they just didn't watch hockey at all and her dad's trying to watch it to quite honestly very nice of him to like be on the same page as me. It's to understand what it is. The hell is that I care so much about. But he's like, yeah, I don't know these things are what to watch. I kind of think that if you threw somebody out there who's wearing a gold helmet, it's like an indicator. That's the best player on the ice. Or maybe it isn't the best player on the league. Top score in the league. Right. Or like some teams have it on per team where every team has one depending on what league you go to. Like I think my body was playing Switzerland. Every team, every team had their own guy who had one like that kind of thing and it's an indicator. That's too much. That's okay. You got the clown in there. Oh, well, it's Jack Handy. If you're a performer, if you're a clown and in your act, you have a dog is part of your act and you dress the dog up like a clown. People will say, that's too much. My point being and I agree with you that's too much. But my point being is that there's an indicator and it's something to maybe connect to people who aren't as aware of what's going on. You know, okay, there's the best player. There's somebody I've got to watch out for every time. There's other little things, but it's kind of open my mind a little bit. My thought was and I think this is probably where you were going to Vancouver thing and I didn't know they did this. Yeah. My suggestion was they you open up a section behind one of the nets at preferably the net that the away team would be at for two periods of the game. Yeah. Where the tickets are first come first serve max price $10 cannot resell them above $10. Maybe it's not $10. Maybe it's 20. Maybe it's 25. Whatever. You find the price that works. Yeah. But you get the people in there who would die to be in those seats who will like live and breathe the queue to wait to get in line to get those $25 30 tickets because I think those are the type of people who will get into those seats and who will go nuts they'll yell at the goalie they'll do chance about the goal tenders about the away teams. I think those are the people who go nuts and it's a blocked off section. And I think if you can get one section of the arena to start to bring a animosity maybe I think what you're saying is if you can get that one section to behave that way it'll bleed. Yes exactly. It'll bleed to the right. It filters out because then the person who's sitting in the section directly beside they might look at them and be like well I'm kind of lame for just sitting here while this guy says Dan said dogs off and screaming yelling at you at the goalie it's all called okay I'll do it. Now I stand up in the person beside me and maybe it doesn't have to be everybody's jumping and blowing smoke and waving flags the whole game quite like European games. Oh that brings a different element. And I think that helps introduce it to the North American game a little bit more. It's hard to implement and I get it and money is definitely different when you saw what you're going to say. To get that discussion is for like a thousand dollars you know face value for the lower bowl. A little hard to be like not sure you're going to sell these for 50 bucks a ticket. Yeah I don't know about here's my but they're going to have scars and they're going to sing songs. Yeah that's wonderful son. Yeah you do realize that we're running a business here and the most born people are our shareholders and I don't think they care about scarves. Which I get. I get about the dollars coming in the building but good idea. Yeah it was just I was thinking about how do you get more European energy into the arenas here because that's it's you know what it's almost like it has to be organic like there has to be like a section that takes it upon themselves like there's a group of like you know that are like you know 50 people from like the booster club that have seasons tickets and they're all together and they decide to do something. You know who got clowned for it and I wish that they didn't because I think that it could have potentially sparked. There is the Utah fans Utah's social media account without a is more or less like a guideline on social media of like here's how to cheer. Yeah which I get it like I get why people were clowning on them to an extent it's kind of like well you're supposed to be hockey fans like why I hate that I hate that that's fine like they're new fans man stop right don't get keep like leave it because they they had come up with all these different things about here's the Utah chance and here's what to do when they we score and here's what to chant when we go on a power plan is kind of like if you can allow a base level. Yeah maybe the Utah fans could have evolved off of that and taking it to a new level because they are new Jeff like they're not they're not conforms to traditional hockey norms. Go ask expansion teams right like it is not the NHL has had situations where with an expansion team after a play the PA announcer explains something like what just happened i.e. icing i.e. offside something like that that's important. I'm sorry it just is and like sports in general is not just one specific demographic it's a family reunion it's all ages it's all interests all of it so is it annoying for someone maybe who's watched hockey for 40 years to hear someone explain offside yeah but once upon a time you didn't know what offside was you just happened to be younger but once one time you didn't know what icing was you didn't understand why puck over glass is an automatic take you didn't understand that so just accommodated I'd be fine with all that I got no problem you're you're a new team in a new market even though Utah as a hockey market does have a history I can a problem with that I wouldn't climb that for a second good for them for doing it it's not a fact no I didn't have a problem with that I just that's what I was thinking like all right leave these people alone we have a chance to kind of maybe go into a new direction make you fans chance of them understand the game yeah well I mean even that aside I was thinking even beyond that like okay you've brought those people and you've got people understanding the game you know let him bring something to it exactly let him bring themselves to it that we don't have yeah I don't like the this is how we do it here yeah because I think you know you want to do something different how you celebrate whatever you know the Utah man with do like go for it so that part I'm not a big fan of I like telling people how to cheer yeah not a big fan of that but like explaining what icing on offside is and how the sort of all of it works and others three periods and flooded in between all like yeah sure what line changes are why you can change while the play is going on unlike any other sport by the way which is unique which is why I hate when players fire pucks on line changes at the bench and then compliance like you don't take away something that is so unique in this sport anyhow I digress welcome to the next era of nation gear the nation network is partner with levelware to bring you a whole new standard of a peril premium fabrics elevated fits in more variety than ever before introducing the limited edition off season social club collection built for the sports between sports from polos and premium t's the hats and hoodies these are pieces designed for every part of your lifestyle not just game day because being a fan isn't just a season it's who you are head to nation gear.ca follow nation gear on social and subscribe to our newsletter to be the first to shop new products limited edition collections and exclusive drops nation gear dot c a we leave anything on the table today we actually just got a tweet come in here that I think oh you'll like oh no this comes in from our friend carry what do you got carry girl on Twitter at UBS arena we have a section in the upper bowl where the blue and orange army are for the game it's euro style seating they have the thinner fold up footprint for seats they can stand the whole game in a very much do drums cowbells chanting et cetera more of that carry and thanks for bringing that up um yeah I haven't have you been to UBS I haven't been yet you know that whole thing you do but like the travel that I don't do oh yeah yeah that I guess I guess like you are you are my tour guide on NHL arenas and cities so oh no don't sell yourself short like CHL 2 right right except I've been to a lot of the CHL arenas I haven't seen a lot of teams play but through tournaments and lots of stuff I've been in them and played in a lot of them right right right right right right right right right okay that's great about you be more stuff like that carry things for sending that in carry works there by the way outstanding person frequently chimes in and corrects me on things which is always a lot of people that correct me on things I see some tweets from carry after our shows wrap up yeah she's great like yep miss that yep or yep god that one wrong she's she's like our ombudsman progress okay not bad gents not bad but okay so here's we a cut it this one you should have probably done a little bit differently um I think that's awesome anything else do we leave anything uh because we're not gonna be back until Tuesday anything from today or yesterday that uh spiced your chili? No, I get on the program. No, I think we We pretty much covered everything there with Dan. The only thing I just want to circle back to with you on this is the FC Bayern Munich partnership. Not that in particular, the partnership itself, but do you think we're at, let me rephrase this, how close do you think we are to expansion into Europe where a team is stationed in a European country. - An NHL team? - An NHL team. - We're a ways away, and I don't think it's gonna happen massively and suddenly, and it's the right thing to do. I think it's gonna go slowly and gradually. Again, I think when we look back, because at the time it wasn't a massive story, but as we look back on it now, I think when we go back to this generation of hockey, the NHL very quietly, for the first time, opening an office in Zurich is gonna turn out to be one of those like, "Ah, we should've seen this coming." Kind of moments. So I do think that, like listen, Bill Daly is openly talking about it on podcast now. So once Bill Daly is comfortable, and this has always been Bill Daly's file as well, international hockey, once Bill Daly starts commenting on these things publicly, you know it's already down the road, and they already have at least a loose idea. Again, like this isn't anything new, the idea of the NHL going to Europe. I mentioned I've got in my house, my basement, a bunch of performers from the NHL, and what it would look like to expand into. And again, it's not just like Stockholm, Helsinki, like probably, it isn't just like the heavyweights. It's like Lisbon, London, right? Like it's sort of not the normal city's, European cities you hear attached to hockey. So it is inevitable. It is going to happen. What is it going to look like? I have no idea. All I know is I hope that it does very much feel like European hockey. I don't want a European knockoff of the NHL game. - Yeah. - You know what I mean? - Yep, yep. It's own personality. And don't try to just like force how the game is either A, played or B, presented on the European market. 'Cause that could be really cool. - Yeah. - What does it look like? - I have no idea. - That's fair. - That's fair. - Yeah, I don't know. I think it's a ways away as well. My big thing is, you know, take care of the weeds in your own garden before you. - There is that element too. I know, yeah, I'm all your own lawn before your neighbors. I get it all, I understand that. And it's not as if there aren't. But the thing is like, there aren't like the massive problems that there were before. Like, again, I sound like, you know, the old man here. But pre-204, 205, like there were some massive problems. Were some of them exaggerated? Yes. Of course. But at the same time, I don't think any of it would have been possible until even just thinking about expanding into Europe until there was this ability that this CBA provides. And by that, I mean like stable ownership with fixed costs. You can quibble about what that means and what that entails. But it's nothing like it used to be before. - Yeah. Look, I just more so like even come at it from the perspective of you just had a franchise in Arizona, you tried really hard to maintain there. And I know that we could talk about-- - Go back, go back, go back, they're going back, they will. - They're going back. - And we can talk about why it didn't work. But my point is, you had one there, it didn't work, you had to move. Now you're gonna go to a city that likely you're gonna go to a city that you also had a team in that didn't work. And that would be Atlanta. And then you're gonna try to go to Houston here now. Okay, what happens when you go to these places, do those ones work? Because I'd rather personally make sure that in North America, like we're growing the game to the max capabilities where the game currently is. - I think you could do, but I understand that, I get it. I don't think it has to be in either our proposition. I think you can do both at the same time. And again, I'll come back to the idea about growing the game. There's a couple of different ways to do it. One is just the add more fans. That's the obvious one, and collect up. And all of a sudden, this person's a fan, that person's a fan, like that's like growing the game too, but also taking established fans you have and make them fans of other elements of the game or other big events, or the Stanley Cup Final, as we talked about with Wushinsky a couple of weeks ago, just make them fans longer. Like in radio, there you go. In radio, there's two different things, right? There's TSL, time spent listening, and there's CUM, which is the volume of people that are listening at any given time. Both are valuable, but I think what we've always focused on when we talk about growing the game is CUM. How many more people can we get under the tent? And I think what we've done is neglected, in radio terms, the TSL, the time spent listening. So your team's out of the playoffs, you're going to fill it off, you flyers, man. You still have some reason to keep watching because you know about this, that, and the other thing. And it's going to lead to the Stanley Cup, where normally a person may just check out. And I think that that also qualifies as growing the game. If all of a sudden it's like, oh, and the flyers are out in the first round, but you're still watching, that still qualifies as growing the game to me. And I think we've neglected that part of it. - Fair. Well, final thing for me here before I let you close the show, you want to talk about growing the game and something that I enjoy here before we send, I send people off to the weekend myself. - What's that? - DFO Edmonton tweeted out that viral video of Connor McDavid, where he's skating backwards and doing crossovers and going forwards and receiving a pass at the same time. You know the one I'm talking about? They tweeted that and they put caption. Genuinely, he's the only human on the planet who can move like this. Somebody quoted this and said, Pavel Datsuke is on this planet as well. The person who quoted that could be none other than Chad Johnson, AKA Ocho Sinko. - No way. - Yes, are a very own DFO Edmonton account quoted by Chad Johnson, Ocho Sinko saying, Pavel Datsuke is on this planet as well. I thought that was fun. I just popped up on the timeline here I want to get that in before we wrapped up the show today. - Was I reading yesterday about, about not that it's a sort of controversy, but like the red rings I kissed and made up with Sergei Federer off. I don't know what didn't end up, didn't end greatly with the Detroit Red Rings and Pavel Datsuke, but like he's getting his number retired, right? He's caught you. Yeah, like it's just gonna happen, right? Like that's that, okay. - Yes, it has to. - Okay, has to. - Okay. He was, I remember at the, oh God, what was it? Which camp was it? It was the first time I'd seen anyone do this. He had a bunch, this is what he would have been like, 11 teen. Like a bunch of pucks lined up at the blue line. And he was doing this thing where we've all seen the Robbie Shramp scoop and fired over your shoulder. The Robbie Shramp special. But he was like skating in circles and picking up the puck and they're all hitting the, at the blue line and they're all hitting the crossbar. There was just like flailing them into the stands or off the glass and I'm just like, what is this? Who is this little Russian guy? And he's grabbing it, spinning, firing it with the spin and grabs another as he just like, does circle of a, what is this? So when I was in elementary school, before the Leafs had traded for him and we used to get computer time in class. This is like when I was like going, you'd go to the library and I had to sign into the things there's two videos I used to watch on YouTube. One was Deon Finneff hit compilations. (laughing) I don't know why, how that came across my desk. - So he watched the, the, the, the old-ass video but a million times, probably. - Basically. - Yeah, yeah. - And the other one was all you'd search up was Pavel Datsuke Magicman. And there would just be a billion videos that would come up. - So. - 20 minute long compilations. - This is the generation gap between us because my Magicman was Kent Nielsen. - Right. - Which we've talked about the original. - The original Magicman. - Also. - And the original fourth book. - Right, right. - So it's just John Van Vee's book of the World Championships. - Yes, absolutely. Greatness boroughs, but genius deals. With that we'll wrap things up. Listen, thanks so much for joining me here today. Thanks for the, all the attention and sticking with the property throughout the summers. You mentioned we're keeping it hot. We'll be getting to a full time schedule at some point in September. That date still to be determined in the meantime. Have yourselves a wonderful weekend and we'll be back on Tuesday. I believe wishes with us some not a filly's giving me the maybe as maybe. - I think so. - Okay. So stay tuned. All we got is four days to book a show. So we should be able to cobble something together. Have a wonderful weekend. Thanks for listening to us on your favorite podcast platform. Thanks for watching us on our daily face off YouTube. Thanks for being in the chat. Thanks for interacting as well. I appreciate all the DMs, attacks, all of it you can come in. And well, we'll talk to you Tuesday. Have a great time. (upbeat music) ♪ I'll spend 16 hours last night ♪ ♪ Every day this week, every day this month ♪ ♪ I can't get out my head ♪ ♪ I'm still ambitious day ♪ 'Cause you can call it all right I went to the dark man You don't give me little medicine I'm like nothing, that's fine I'm not a guest No, it's not this balloon It's me myself And how this gonna be fixing my mind Do you wanna break it? I turned on the internet I do wanna break it I turned on the internet Wasting up there I don't think she's gonna try to use it I've been on the disco where I'm wrong