Moor Thoughts Season Two - Episode Six - Ian Hawgood

Welcome back to the 6th episode of Season 2 of the Bore Thoughts podcast. This month I had the pleasure of sitting down with Ian Horgard, for those that follow the ambient music scene, Ian needs little introduction. He runs the absolutely stunning home normal record label, and has been producing some of the most interesting and creative ambient music in the past 20 years. His collaborator was so many great artists within the ambient music scene, and his tireless efforts to promote the wider ambient community don't go unseen. We spoke a little bit about the trials and tribulations of running a record label, his creative process, and his early beginnings in Japan. A massive thank you to Ian for joining us. I hope you enjoy this episode. I Ian, I really appreciate you taking the time out to have a chat with me this evening. For anyone that might not know, would you be able to give us a little introduction to yourself, maybe the start of your musical journey, and where you are now? So I'm in Brighton. Well, I'm not in Brighton. I'm just outside Brighton, a place called Peace Haven by the Sea, which is beautiful. I'm music background. In terms of releasing music, my first release was in 2007. I work within a net label scene at the time, which was really popular scene, especially in Germany, funnily enough, but that was my background and that's how I got into the connections with music and stuff, and just releasing with really great labels and stuff. Yeah, and then I've been working on various labels, lots of lots of collaborations and sort of releases with, so certain collaborations like 12K, more music, hibernate back in the day, just lots of fantastic labels. And then I set up my own label in 2008, but it started releasing 2009 called Home Normal. I should say that I was living in Japan at the time for a decade and then I lived there before, so that had a big influence. And we're now coming up to, we've just, here we are, 16 years, is that right? Yeah, 16 years. 2026, yeah. 16. 17 years then. Oh my gosh, so 17 years. Got all my master's terrible, isn't that? 17 years we've been around and so, yeah, and for that time I've worked releasing music again with the label and also I work as a Mastering Engineer, so that's broadly, very quick background basically, yeah. Yeah, plenty to keep you busy then alongside the masters and other things. Yes, yes, yes, exactly, yeah. You said you sort of started the label up in 2028. I mean, massive fan of the label, I have been for a long time and it was one of the sort of reasons I started out on records as well. I just love the way that you manage to present the visual and the audio in such a full, sort of, encompassing way. It was just, yeah, really spoke to me and it was definitely a big influence in me deciding to start a record label. We've moved around quite a bit since you started running home normal. How has it been guided by where you live and how has the label changed based on, you know, where it was? That's a really good question. Thank you very much for that. Oh, wow. So the foundation of the label was based on, so the name, home normal came about because I wanted to create music and start a label that helped me dealing with the sensation of being an outsider in a very foreign country and feeling quite alone. That's where it comes from. And I always felt very normal, normalized, myself when I listened to music in Tokyo especially. So that became, that's sort of what the label and my music and everything I do really sort of grounded on that in terms of my identity and stuff. And like I said, I have moved around a lot. I, you know, before Japan I lived in Italy for a while. Sort of in and out of London, between different places. I spent time in America. I lived in Japan for a couple of years before after university. Then Japan for ten years. Then Poland. And we've now been here for, obviously this is my maths against seven. Coming up six and a half years, which is the longest we've lived anywhere in my life in terms of the impact a place has. I always like to feel it wasn't, it didn't really have an effect. But actually it has a huge effect on a really practical level. I, I realized, especially in terms of your social network. So, you know, ambient music, it appears to be kind of music that doesn't have borders. It has with all things it does, obviously. So it came about through the live music scene that I was part of. In 2007, 2008 I was doing a lot of live shows in Tokyo. It was kind of a community. There's a lot of people like Chihei, Hakabune, Tomoe, all these great artists. And there was a really, really, really good live scene. So just on that level, it had a huge influence on what I was doing and the label just on a practical level. Culturally, it also had an influence because Japan's, have you been to Japan before? No, it's definitely on the list. Like it's the way I haven't made it yet. Yeah, I mean, it's a strange existence, but an incredibly beautiful existence. I had there. I was incredibly lucky. And it was one of great quietude, wildness and quietude. So that kind of combination had a huge influence on the sound of the label. I think it's still rooted in that truthfully. At heart, I still, that's still kind of, you know, I love living here, but that's still very much my home. And I think that has a huge influence. Not just on the fact that a lot of our artists are Japanese. A lot of our artists may not be Japanese, but have Japanese sensibilities. Yeah. So, for example, the release we've just done today, Federica, this Italian composer, she's heavily, she's got Japanese titles in there. So we, you know, we made sure they were all sort of accurate and, and, and right. And the reason being Japan has a huge influence inside any culture, funnily enough. So Japan is the influence unquestionably. But I would also say that living in Bright, I keep saying Brighton, I'll say Brighton, I don't remember, you know what I mean, outside Brighton. People get so offended with that. Especially peace saver. I'm not a trend person. I'm a trend person. Exactly. Exactly. But I've really moved to a very different direction here in time where a lot of the focus is on water. I know that's not my sound strange. But a lot of the work has a lot of field recording. David Cadero, one of our main artists, lives by the sea and the water influences him. And I, I really get that. So the geographical location really has an influence. But I still think that we're very, or I'm either able aesthetically a very, that lower case aesthetic is very much Japan, very sort of an outside of living in Tokyo. You know, where there's wonderment at every daily small thing. That's still a huge influence for me. Sorry, that's quite a lot of answer. Yeah. No, no, absolutely brilliant. Yeah. So you sort of mentioned feeling like a bit of an outsider in Japan. Obviously culturally, massively different. And one of the few places where English isn't learnt as much in some of the other Asian countries. Yeah. What brought you over there and how was that feeling of being somewhere so different and you know, maybe struggling with that communication element of things? Music. So I met a very good friend who's, who's quite a very well known artist. I won't say who, be just because of my friends. But this is a sound of a crazy. We met a Bible school on my gap year. So I come from a quite religious background. That's not how I'm inclined now. But yeah, we met a Bible school in the UK on my gap year before I started university. And he grew up living in Japan. And we became very, very close friends. And so when I first went there, I went for two months in my gap year after Bible school after me and this friend. And it was genuinely amazing. And then, yeah, went to university and Ben who helps and helps out by and I, we were playing bands, we played music, and we experimented with tape and all this kind of stuff. And that sense of outside of her to sort of definitely developed. Japan's quite a lonely country and this was 2001, January 2001, I moved over there after university. And how do I explain it? Yeah, it can be a very lonely country. I think it's different now, and it's very different the second time when I lived there for a decade. But the first time I lived there, signs weren't in English, there was just no English signs. You had to understand Chinese characters and Japanese language, you had to sort of learn a little bit. But it was really beautiful, I know that sounds strange, but it was some people, I had friends visiting, they go, "Man, it's so lonely, are you not lonely?" And I'm like, "I love it." Because people are very warm, people are very friendly, but you are always, certainly at that time, you are always visibly an outsider. But how the huge influence on my personality and my, definitely my music, because that's how I got into ambient music, is because at night I still wouldn't go out and socialize, that wasn't my kind of thing. But the culture there, this kind of slightly isolated but still warm and inviting, and in a really intoxicating strange way. So yes, I was an outsider, but it's really hard to explain. Yeah, it really is, but it has a huge influence on that home, even though you felt a little bit like an outsider. And again, like what, how many years later it was I set up home normal, you know, sort of seven or eight years later, exactly. Like there's a sense of home, there's a sense of normal, but I'm not quite sure how that's defined. So it's an outsiderhood, but it's a visible outsider to have other, but a sense of being oneself in that isolation, that sounds very poetic, but anyway, that's what it is for me anyway. I mean, yeah, it sounds like an incredible experience that you're still thinking about and digesting. I think that's called midlife crisis. That happens to the best of us. But it still has a huge influence on everything I do really. So, yeah, how was it you found the ambience when you're over there, obviously, said you were sort of creating this musical self. I imagine there was a lot more scope for ambient events and things happening in Tokyo. I mean, it was amazing. I was really lucky because when I went to Japan the second time, first time I was just, I was in a bad, very isolated, just making music for myself. And then I moved back to London. But the second time I lived there, so was 2007. And again, I moved over for music with a few of the same guys in the same band. And we were making honestly great music, so much for me, I had a good space. The ambient scene was wild and amazing and beautiful and fantastic. And it was just such an inviting space to be. I think I was quite an obscure thing for a lot of people because there was this tall, huge white dude, you know, take a part in these shows. And it was, you know, the one you didn't get married in many foreigners at the clubs that I was playing, playing, you just didn't. And I think the warmth I felt from, again, people at Chihai and Hakubun, at least people, they're amazing. They're just incredible people. The scene there is so incredible, I have to say, it's not without issues because live shows there are a nightmare. They're very expensive, they are, they're very expensive to put on. And there's lots to do in a place like Tokyo, you know, getting people through the doors for anything is, and the very expensive shows is tricky. But I had a friend in London, Wataru Osaka, who's, he was a student of mine in London. We became really close friends, we still are, he helps sometimes with our normal, amazing artists, amazing label owner. And he introduced me to a couple of people, and I just started playing these small shows. And it was, it was all very, so one of their friends he had hosted these quite big events for foreign, sorry, I should say international artists. And I was like, okay, and that's where I started to meet different people. But really where things were amazing, we're just in the tiny, like 10 people would rock up and maybe like 10 artists. So, you know, 50/50 split of, you know, audience and artists. These times, which we've all experienced. And the support there, though, between these little groups was incredible. And yeah, I played different areas, different prefectures, I played up in Hokkaido with, I don't know if you remember, Rionct. Very amazing guitarist, I had a label called Slow Flow Rec. And this is way back. Yeah, this is back in 2008, 2009. So Wataru and I played up there up in Hokkaido and I played, I played loads in Tokyo. And it just fine-tuned my ability to perform live when I, that's not, I'm very uncomfortable with that, excuse me. Yeah, I think quite a lot of ambient-leaning people don't find the live performance as the most enjoyable thing to hear. Yeah, well, no, I mean, the great thing about it is it moved me away from sort of, you know, this is quite a long time ago. I didn't just do laptop stuff, but I got me to experiment and try different things. I used to play music with gameboys and I'd just do a set, just pure acoustic calimba, for example. And obscure stuff with, what are I use televisions to just do the white noise and, well, we do all sorts of stuff. And then that experimental element was really fun and really supported and just, there was a really good scene for it back. I don't know how it is now, but that's certainly how it was back in sort of 2008, '70, '70, '90 kind of era. And that's, again, where home now normal came from and, yeah, I love Mystic, actually, after saying. Yeah, there's always those places, isn't that, that you'll just forever call home, even though it was a time ago. Yeah, yeah. I think we're in a period now where it's going, I feel like things are like that again. I think still point represents, and what you guys are doing represents a very similar feel for me, to that time where it can be this quite innocent, supportive, open-minded way of approaching music. And without, it doesn't need to be stressful or shouldn't be stressful. It should just be about creativity and fun and collaboration and friendship. Yeah, I mean, the past year of, you know, having a few of these events, I think it just made quite a few of us realise it's like, we've got such great community and obviously, we all communicate all the time via email and messages and things, but nice to just get everyone together and remind yourself, maybe a couple of times of year. So hopefully they will continue on from now on. Definitely, yeah, but that is an important one because it's a psychological trick, isn't it, where you do feel disconnected if you don't see people. We like to think we're connected with by being online, but we're really not, you know, and it's not until you meet up in person and just realise, oh, this person's real and, you know, we get this person a hug because, you know, we've been in touch for a decade and I've never met. You know, there's something really beautiful in that and that's really important, I think, in terms of music scenes and stuff is that sort of local physical connection really. Yeah, most definitely. Yeah, I remember speaking to how I think it was last September when we were in Woodbridge and it was, you know, we've been in contact for sort of 13 years or something, but never actually seen each other. This seems absolutely wild, but also like very common place. Yeah, I mean, even with yourself, you sort of contributed a track to our first physical compilation piece and that was. Yeah, sort of 10 years ago. It was really 10 years ago. Yeah. Every now and again, you look on bank camp and you go, "Can't not been that, surely." That's wild, no way. Yeah. That's amazing. So you're quite an old label now, really, to be fair. 10 years. Yes, we've been around quietly for sort of 13 years now. Oh my goodness, okay. But it's sort of fluctuated with, it's just what you can give to it, isn't it? It changes. Yeah, by year. Exactly. And probably something quite interesting to talk about as well because you seem to have adapted home normal. Yeah. to deal with. with different pressures and various things. Sometimes it's run a little slower. Sometimes it's picked up momentum. How is it that you decide when it's time to make a change and what sort of influences the sort of story of home normal as such? The story of home normal. It's typically based on practicalities truthfully. I've, truth be told, I've probably, you know, you'll know how it's running a label, but I've pushed myself through things that I probably shouldn't have done to get things done on a personal level. I won't say what they are, but really tough life things have had an impact and I've carried on. So it's great to hear you think that I've made adjustments. When I don't know if I have, the adjustments have come more in the last few years, I would say. I've been very lucky that we've had distributors before who are really close friends who have just taken over duties with the label and promotion and stuff like Special Interpreter. So, you know, and I've got friends Ben's help to bear. There's just a lot of really great people. Like Harry, you mentioned Harry and stuff. There's just great people who have taken over ways of helping with the label in some ways when I've struggled to kind of keep up. But I've, it wasn't until three years ago that I actually had to physically stop and I wasn't, I wouldn't say could stop because that's just not how my brain works. I never stop. That's just, I just, but thankfully, you know, I had been in my wife and a number of the artists just sort of came together to other, because the label I was just like, no, I don't want to, I can't do anymore. It really caused quite a big problem for me and just the names of stress and a lot of stuff. So, the way the label's adapted is, it really is just based on sort of respecting the people around me and respecting the fact that I need to have my own life. And I don't think I did that for 14 years of the label. So now we're just there. So for example, just a practical example is distribution. I'm not sure how it's been for you, but like distribution can be very good, but appearances can be deceiving. I don't want to swear on here, but it's a nightmare as well at times. And so just the financial practicalities are very difficult way. You send hundreds of CDs to a distributor. You don't get any money for example. So you have to, the label has definitely changed as a result of little things like that, where it's like, I just can't afford to keep putting out, say, a thousand CDs back in the day and not get any money back. Now that's just a really important practical element of how things change. And where we are now is funnily enough where originally I wanted to be when I was setting up with another friend. So my friend Dave and I were setting up nomadic kids with public and then it was obvious that I was going to be bigger than that because of certain artist demands to be to be honest. And so he decided not to do it and I decided to carry on. So before that we were supposed to do 100 edition CDRs. Funnily enough, 17 years later, we're doing 100 edition CDRs and it's just been such a lovely change to come back to that. So yeah, there has been changes, but they have been enforced. But until now, the last couple of years has been definitely more by choice, more by we can put more out because it's less expense with printing locally and 100 editions. And I don't think there's been many changes in terms of artwork. I've always loved that lower case kind of feel. The other big change, and so sound quite negative, but that's okay. Is that without giving away some of the releases and I think you appreciate this. I think people have picked up on when I've given up or not trying to dictate the art, the cover, the art is set or should be set. That was a big change for me. I was pretty worn out at times with work and family and personal stuff and then you've got to be blunt and artist going, but I really want this. But I really want this. And you just get, okay, fine, screw it, like whatever you want. I guess I'll just pay for it. The biggest change has been I'm working with people who really appreciate the labels they set at. And me, the sound I put into it and mastering it, I think just we're at a really good place where we're kind of a small label again. And again, that's another long answer to your question. But it's the gestation and the change and the evolution. It seems like we've gone backwards, but we haven't. It's actually the most solid we've been and the happiest I feel on a personal level with the label. That's the main thing, right? That's what I've realised is the main thing after years of not even considering my own. I mean, it's so easy to get burnt out by it. So many labels too. So many people do. Yeah, you're laptop or you know, and even in Toronto, answer all the emails because you've been at work all day and then more are coming in and you're just like I should go to bed now, but this needs to be done. No, I mean, so I mean, just on that, no, that's really put my wife just the other day. Because so I've gone back to university. I wasn't very well for a while and I decided rather than carrying on with the label like fully alongside my work, I would go back to university. I was working these crazy outing these essays, but my wife said to me, oh my gosh, you're back to how you used to be. I'm like, what do you mean a better? So she used to sleep for like an hour. I'm like, no, I got more than that. And she reminded me that actually I spent years, years literally living off one to two hours max sleep because I get home from work. I do these mastering jobs. I post CDs or whatever other weekend. And same as you like just getting all this label stuff, I don't think people realize even on a small scale how much work is it's right? It's phenomenal. It really is. I mean, you've got to be a master of everything. Haven't you? You know, with a smile as well, right? You, doesn't it? Yeah. Packaging and posting, getting down to the post office. The post office social media and then sending out the promo. Well, that's that's why I cut social media three. I just I can't I had to drop off one thing and that was that. The other thing now is the post office with all the, you know, I mean, you're in the UK, you know, how it's like all the fees and the changes to the Royal Mail. And it's just yeah, it's just crazy. It really is. It's, um, yeah, frustrating place to be dealing with the Royal Mail at the moment. Yeah, the constant changes in prices and the way you book things on all anyway, whatever. So yeah, we could we could spend the next half an hour moving about. Um, no, I mean, it's really nice to hear that you feel like you're in a really good place with the label. Sometimes here, it's it's not great that it's enforced, but you find your way there anyway. It reminds you, doesn't it? When you go back to those bits of this is why I got into this. This is why I enjoy doing this. And I guess a big part of that is that you've quite steadily curated a really impressive roster on the label and you tend to work with the same people over and over again. What is it that makes you want to work with someone with the label? How is that guided? Is it sort of based upon demos or do you approach artists that you've been listening to for a while? No, I mean, so how home normal started out has with all labels, I suppose, is that I would approach just music that I found really inspiring. And as well as people I was connected to on the let label scene and live scene. Now I think most labels get to a point where they work with a small group. Not not all labels, but most labels do be just because you go through some very positive experiences, very negative experiences. And you just end up realizing that it's just nice to work with people who are a brilliant at what they do, be appreciate and respect what you do. And that's kind of a perfect unison and you need that. I think without that it's very tricky. The flip side of that is that it means that you often don't work with new artists and I see that as a big problem, especially in the ambient scene actually. It's very limited in terms of where people are from, their gender, who they are, the social groups that groups they keep. And I am aware of that, but I'm also somebody who likes the safety of working with people like Brandish Omb, David Cudero, Harry as well. All these amazing artists, Stefano James, all these amazing people who for me originally was about how brilliant is this music. That was it. And then I started to go, well, I don't like being pushed on my ideals. Oh, okay, they don't want my mastery. Oh, okay, oh, we're gonna spend this money. Okay. And you keep getting pushed and you want to work with people who just are collaborative. That's the best word really. So I think there's an element of respect. And that's been how it's dictated. That's how it's dictated to me. Passive, we should we say. But I still base everything on how good the music is. If somebody says something over and it just doesn't gel for me, even if it's Brad, who I've absolutely do not that he's ever sent anything that's less than incredible. Guys, guys, just just amazing frankly. He's a force of nature. And I don't think people realize I genuinely I think I know we always say people are under appreciated, but goodness me Brad, the shot, the guys written some of the best-time music I think going anywhere. I genuinely consistently. I can't believe how good his output is and how he just maintains that very high standard as well. Yeah, I mean, yeah, he just sent over a post-rock yeah, post-rock kind of shoe gazing album. For me to master because I'm master, I'm master pretty much all his work actually, which is just nice. Totally different, but totally beautiful. That Brad melody that he does. You know what I mean? That kind of gorgeous sort of magical otherworldly melody gets me like, it's always the guitar. I'm like, how do you keep producing this stuff? It's just yeah. But back to your first question, it is based on brilliant artists who are collaborative. There we go, sure answer. And great people. That's become really important. I have to work with people who quite frankly aren't selfish, blue, blue, blue. That's a big one. It is, it's unfortunate, isn't it? Where you most of the people we come across in the ambient music community are lovely, but lovely people. Yeah. And then there is that small percentage that just unfortunately leaves a bit of a sour taste, isn't it? As true in life as now, the negative always outweighs the positive strangely. So psychological triggers, never mind. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, like say that's why live events are important aren't they? Really? So you can actually sort of meet up with everyone and just to remind that, yeah, we've got an amazing community. Yes, but no, exactly. Absolutely. Yeah. You talked a little bit about doing quite a lot of live performance when you were in Tokyo. How is that stayed as part of your practice? How does that link into your live performance at stillpoints next week? Well, there is a direct correlation. I think, did I mail you this? I decided, because originally I think, I don't know who asked me, but I was going to do like a DJ set because I am performed for seven years. So I was going to kind of a home normal ambient DJ set. And then I got these old laptops at a 20 years old out with my old audio mod software, but I have fun and whatever. And I thought, you know what, I'm going to just have some fun with this old software completely forgetting that of course the CPU just goes, you know, you press a button and it's like, no, you're okay. So in terms of live shows, it's been quite tricky because I've been really calm. I've been really busy because of university and work and stuff. But only yesterday properly, did I get my gear out, my PA to have a test, to have a run through. And of course it was like, what, 35 degrees in the studio. Like, so I'm sweating all day. And I was trying to start with to take the boot. I was like, well, maybe I could bring my little, I've got some more roads. I said, oh, that could be my desk and I could use that and loot. And you sort of forget the different options you have with live shows. It's like, because every live show I would do, it was always about experimentation. It was always like, I wanted to have fun. And the beauty of, I didn't used to do laptop shows, but the beauty of bringing something like audio marches that you can play with sound in such a fun way live and just depending on the crowd, depending on, you know, you're playing with. And I, you know, of course, you know, off the sky. So off the sky was Jason introduced me to audio march because he was using it for his work. And I got it. And it's, I don't think it's been updated for 10 years. So it's really old software. It was very, just really experimental. So the, how it ties to that is that I haven't performed for seven years at all, at all. The last time I did a performance, a channel cut, and I sort of forgot that the Coca-Cola Quantist is a modular thing, you know, some other people won't. Is mono, I'd forgotten that, it arrived a day before and I'd thought I could just play a show with it. It wasn't because I haven't been invited to shows or because I was so traumatized by it, but I just, I just kind of had enough, I did find it. I anxiety inducing stress for, yeah, before the show I get cramps and then after the show I spend a week just like quite depressed. Not because the show's weren't great, but just something about it I struggled with. So I haven't kept up with it at all. I've been working on the mastering, working on music, working on work. But this is just a very different approach where I'll go to the same kind of thing, but it's too much to experiment, probably. But I'm realizing I can enjoy it, be with friends, create some ridiculous music that might not work, but that's okay. And that's what life, I think that's what life ambient experimental music should be. It should be fun. It should take itself too seriously. And if it's good, it's great. If it's not so good, that's okay. I miss the fun of live music, I really do. So I just want to enjoy it. And that's that's where I'm back where I'm at. So I've kind of gone back to my ways of performing in Japan, where it was fun. After that, when I was getting paid decent money to perform festivals and shows, which I did after I left Japan, yeah, great to get paid well, get flying to places, I tell them all that. Not that, not that, not that my big heart is threatening. But there's, you know, there's a lot of support in Europe and stuff for that. But I found it too anxiety inducing and stressful. So this is taking me right back to the original kind of experimental era, should you say? So yeah. Yeah, it's just so refreshing to hear you talk about all these things that sort of come in full circle and landing in. Yeah, this is why I got into this. This is why I do this. And it's just, it's fun and enjoyable. So, I mean, you can easily get so hung up, can't you? On just, you know, trying to prepare for something, oh, that's not right. Or, you know, you're listening to tracks over and over again trying to polish them and then you sort of, absolutely. The fun out of why you're doing it in the first place, don't you? Perfection is actually detrimental to organic and your music, I think. Like, yeah. In any, whether it's like the mastering, the mixing, whatever stage, when people just lose their proverbial, as HIT, to define the details, I just kind of disconnect, you know, like, it's just not for me. And it's good to remind yourself that it can be fun. That's open and what's that famous, you know, quote about mistakes? I always forget it. Unintentional intention. No, there's something about unintentional mistakes. There's no intention. Oh, anyway, doesn't matter. There's no mistakes, basically in music. I saw it in later and make, yeah, sound really funny. Amazing. Well, it's nice day. You talk about that sort of want and need for experimentation in your live show because it's something I've always thought has come across in your solo music as well. It seems like each album you're willing to just sort of take a completely fresh approach to the sound and what you're doing with it. And it's led to a beautiful back catalog of just so many varying different ambient styles, but all quite distinct with your sort of sounds as well. How do you approach your solo releases and putting them together? Is it intentional that you go for these different sounds or does that happen sort of naturally in organic at the time? I think I'd say it's organic and thank you for that. Yeah, it's definitely organic. Again, I've started not always, but I've started writing about my process and of technical aspects because I realized that when I, you know, when I was younger and learning engineering, university and stuff like, I would love to have known about the finer details of making music with different gear. My training is in sort of big old studio systems like the old T-Machines, like, std, or and stuff, and classic outboard gear. That's my background and I loved it, but, you know, how I came into music was, I mean, it might be similar to you, I'm not sure, but like, I used to use old tapes and four tracks and stuff like that. And I just think sharing that knowledge is really interesting, but as a result of that, because I've, I mean, I've whittled down my gear very recently to very limited stuff now. And that's my main stuff there. You can see my bookler and my, my Fender Oats there. And I've always been obsessed by tone. Yeah, how do I explain that? So I've always been interested in just pure, the purity of sound. And that doesn't mean like, clean, but like, an analog, organic tone, whether that's a acoustic guitar, for example, or, you know, synth, tape, drone, whatever. That's kind of what's driven me. And still does. And so in terms of each album I do, I'm just trying to think of different examples, like, the album I did for quite a details last year was really detailed. I was quite collaborative with Brad and my friend Sam and a couple of other people. And you know, that was based on sort of old Gretch guitar loops I did and synth going through tapes, just to kind of, I had, I had probably my hands, I couldn't use my hands for a while. So it was a way to kind of just because of health stuff. And there's a way to, for the physiotherapy, I would just start splicing tape again, things like that, like. So that album as an example was really experimental because it was me literally doing these old things I used to do, but in a different approach, because I couldn't do things as quickly as I could before. And then, yeah, I just like playing with gear, really. I'm not a gear head though. That's the weird thing I hate having gear. Hate cables. Seriously, I hate cables. I love cables. So I've tried to minimize as much as possible, but each, yeah, each album I just want to have fun and see what I can get out of there. They're often based around the similar sort of gear like my fender raise and my guitar. You can't see in the camera, but I've got an old, you might see just there. It's a music man amp. It's from the like early, so it caught a 65 or early 70s. I am just into that older kind of stuff. So yeah, it's just all about tone. It really is. A little bit melody, but tone, just find it very cathartic. So that's why the different approaches appeal to me. Yeah. Almost using sort of different instrumentation, one of the different approaches to extract the same thing you're looking for within that sound. Yeah, but also just having, having a genuine, I know I keep saying about having fun. Like for example, I did Savage Modern Structures. It was really fun to make, but it's a really dark album of just, because I do like playing guitar a lot and making it sound a bit different with old pedals. But for example, how I microphone things, I find really interesting in how the room dynamics, for example. So for example, that album I just did this massive just room recording with these little LeVelier DPA, really good company for my ex. Yeah. And just getting the room dynamics as part of the mix was a challenge, but just really fun. And you've got all that air and it's, I don't know, it's just, and also, so yeah, probably because I have my brain most I have ADHD. And so I need to keep, you know, doing different things and keep shaking up. I get bored so easily. Yeah, everything. So if I do the same thing more than once, I get really bored. Yeah. And that's the killer of inspiration sometimes, isn't it? When you turn the same thing on and your brain instantly goes to that same thing that you do, you'd really need to catch yourself and be like, oh yeah, I could end up. It's all very automated. It's the same album. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, I don't want to do that. You know, no. So I mean, yeah, it's an approach that's worked really well so far. And I'm actually sorry, I can't. I'm small to explore. We'll see. I hope so. So we're probably getting sort of towards the end of our conversation. Maybe to finish off, I don't know if you've got anything coming up on a home normal at the moment that you'd like to talk about or any solo projects or collaborations that you're doing at the minute that you're excited about any releases on the horizon. I've got a ton of collaborations that have been on the drive and tapes and stuff for years and bless my collaborators. They are beyond patient. So I mean, just for the label today, yeah, today we released Federica Deanna, a talent composer who's really wonderful. So she, yes, she was a student, she studied under Stefano Gazetti who a lot of people will know. I'm sure it's a home normal artist. I'm really proud to release it. It's really great. I mean, obviously women are very underrepresented in our field. I think there's a social aspect to that where I'm very aware of that. So a lot of guys who work within ambient music and it, one of the questions I did see in advance was just thinking about the submissions. And that's just like, that's really interesting because I would say it's, I don't know about for you, but I'd say it's probably 99. Something percent of submissions are typically from men of a certain age. Maybe that's not true. Pretty broad age actually. But certainly, that's very similar, weird, as in Western background. And not enough women. So releasing Federica today just feels important. Let's say that. But it's also really glad you sort of brought that up actually because it's sort of reminded me that we should probably have this conversation and guided by, I had Ruby Estermé on this podcast and having a female on the podcast, I thought it would be a good chance to sort of talk about women's representation. And we talked about, you know, that she's never always felt welcomed and the community's amazing, just not understanding why there doesn't seem to be this sort of representation of women in the same way. Obviously, there's so many incredible female artists doing amazing things and, you know, labels, now sort of promoting women and gender-experience of artists and things like that. And I asked her why, I was like, why do you think that there isn't that representation? And she was just like, I don't know, maybe you should ask some of your male friends. And I was like, yeah, it's probably worth discussing isn't it? I guess asking a woman why she thinks that's not. No, absolutely. I mean, yeah, I think she could give a better answer than me. It's really important, isn't it? Like, so I mean, when Hanyour was started, our first six or the first year of releases we had, I think it was 50%, 40%, 50% women, female artists involved. And what I realized was, and I have thought about it as actually for quite a while now, because it is very difficult. And it was a concerted sort of consideration. We don't bring a lot of new artists in because it's just, you know, how it is, like, time-wise, you build up a community. And unfortunately, the positive of building up a community is that you're working in a way that you can manage alongside a job family, right? Yeah. But the flip side is that you have a social-queensy where there's typically a lot of guys at the same time with similar interests, often gear heads, things like, you know, I mean. And so there's a natural way that it comes together. But again, then you have a problem where you're not representing people enough. People, like, you know, it's very, very difficult. If you go to the bank parties, again, I would say it's mostly men, as I'm sure you've seen, but there's a lot of women there, but I don't think they're represented in the amount that's released in sort of a small ambient community, sitting on the UK anyway. And again, live shows back in Japan, perhaps surprisingly there was a really good balance actually at some other smaller events, that's important, smaller events, not the bigger events and I don't want to hazard a guess as to why that is. I think you probably could, but that was definitely an issue I would say. I just didn't think about it, I'll be honest, I didn't realise until afterwards, I was just like, oh I'm going to play live show, so a whole bunch of go, okay, you know, like you said there's some amazing artists out there, female artists, incredible. I do think there's a social aspect to it though and it's just, I think you have to make a concerted effort because when I think about it, I realise that I'm in a safe, I'm sure we're all the same, you have your core group and they're great guys, they're amazing, but unless you branch out socially because we only released Federica because she's Stefano's friend and so I got to be her because Stefano's a good friend and I went to Italy and met her, I guess she's really cool, she makes amazing music. So there was a social aspect, so it's not to beat up on the scene or myself, you know, labels, whatever, there's an understandable reason for it, but I think just for me it takes branching out a little bit which requires time which is something a lot of us don't have as we work and run these labels, but nonetheless I do think we, I do think there's a responsibility there to branch out a bit more from the social circles of guys, right? It's definitely, like I say it's just such a fine balance isn't it? And also when you release music that you are really passionate about if someone sends you an album you're really passionate about, you want to release it and the schedule fills out very quickly then, doesn't it? That excitement right? Oh my gosh, it's the best thing ever. Okay, all right. Okay, we're really, sir. Yeah, no, just that moment, isn't it when you're sort of listening to it before anyone else that's really just like, wow, this is, yeah, this is really great. That excitement. Yeah, so many people, you know, making such pretty musical the time and some. But maybe the question, but the question then is for me, why is it that I get literally almost a hundred, almost a hundred percent of demo submissions? Not we don't take demos, I'm just gonna listen to them now and then, but why is it men almost entirely? Do you know what I mean? Like we like we released sitriene last year with Phoebe Dubar whose music I think is amazing, but I own that was through Brad, right? And then Federico is through Stefano. So they're through friends of mine and that's how I do want to run the label. So there has to be a bit more responsibility. Not for me, I think, to sort of branch out a bit more, but it's difficult to know how to especially with time constraints and financial constraints running a label, you know? Yeah. But those aren't great excuses as well, I would say. Now I mean, I guess it also comes back to that thing potentially where they say, you know, a man is more likely to look at a job advert with something that he's got no skills in and still apply for it and sort of make that approach with a bit more confidence than I wonder if that's why we don't see as so many submissions from film here artists or yeah, I mean, it's just an interesting topic and I don't think it's at all anything intentional by anyone, but like you say, it's maybe the discussion needs to be had of what we can do to make it more inclusive and approachable. I will say I think, you know, I think that there's a case for a better approach than just without being too negative tokenism as well. I think tokenism is a really dangerous approach that's happened in the last year or two and it's not to knock labels that are pushing certain things, but I do feel there's quite a tokenism and rather than that, I think people need to just start branching out a bit without shouting, look, we have this female artist, you know, and relying on that. I think that's there's a problem in that, I think, really. It needs to be organic basically, and natural and connected and real and obviously the music needs to be great, but that's a given. So yeah. Excellent. Yeah, no great to get your thoughts on that. So yeah, back to the original then you were saying you've got this release with Federica. Federica. Yeah, it's amazing. Yeah, just released. Yeah, just released, just put out just before this interview. I mean, she's great. She's so talented. And I mean, interestingly, she's got loads of support and great reviews in Italy, but very little outside, which is, well, again, one of those strange strange quirks of geography or something. So I really, hopefully people get to connect this music because it's not, she doesn't come from an ambient background directly, but why she makes this ambient on this album. If you have a real listen to some of those synth-trone things, she's doing that really good, really organic and yeah, super talented. Yeah, she's amazing. Yeah. She just hits that sort of perfect point between sort of tone and melody, doesn't she? She does. She's just really beautiful about it. Yeah. Her previous releases have been sort of building as well, it seems. It seems like she's working towards an idea she has in her head and it's just a really nice journey to that point. I couldn't agree more. Yeah, I mean, the release is a fantastic, but the album is just, it's just so good. It's surprised when she sent over, I was like, what is this? This is crazy. And she went really hard on it. So Stefano helped her to produce it and she got, I think she used Stefano's piano actually, but they had to get it mic-taped differently for her and things like that. And she's put a lot of work into this and the fact that it's released on a little label that her normal's kind of crazy, but hey, there you go. But it's a brilliant album, yeah. Amazing. Well, yeah, thank you so much for joining us this evening. Thank you. And it's been a pleasure to sit down and chat with you after all these years and really looking forward to still point next week. Yeah, it's going to be amazing. It's going to be a really great fun. Looking forward to meeting everyone properly and personally. Yeah, yeah, it's going to be great. A massive thank you to Ian for taking the time out to chat with me this evening. It was a real pleasure to finally sit down with him. To conclude this episode, I'm going to select two tracks from Ian's expansive back catalogue. The first track, a personal favourite of mine, is taken from the album before I let the sunshine rot and that's called Thank You Sarah. The second track is a collaboration with Federico Durand and that's called A Film by Federico Durand. [Music] [Music] [Music] (gentle music) N anecdrum - a her 画完 (S miracles actually are written on for her, her as follows, fate! ― ― ― ― ― ― ― ― ― ― ― ― ― ― ― ― ― ― ― ― ― ― ― ― ― ― ― ― ―