Montell Jordan's "This Is How We Do It"

Imagine setting your makeup, then forgetting it's even theirs. Meet new groupie setting mist from Mavily New York. Gel to mist technology locks in your look for up to 24 hours, with flexible all-day comfy grip. No tightness, no stickiness, no residue. Just plump, dewy hydrated skin that still feels like your skin. Try new groupie setting mist from Mavily New York. Maybe it's Mavily, so tip up your cup and throw your hands up and let me hit a party say I'm kind of buzzed in its all because this is how we do it. Okay, I just want to say there's a lot of drinking in this song. So tip up your cup and throw your hands up. I'm kind of buzzed in this all because like everything is like, I think me and my guys are the same tinner, yeah, you got it luxury today we're talking about an R&B song that pulled from hip-hop's past to create maybe just maybe the definitive party anthem of the 1990s. That's right, Diallo, and this song's mission to bring the old school back is built around a sample of a classic hip-hop song, which itself is built around an interpolation of an artist who at this point is essentially synonymous with classic hip-hop breaks. So to help us make sense of this complex web of samples and interpolations, can I do that too? We've partnered with Spotify to use their brand new song DNA feature. It basically allows us to show just how deep these connections go. We're talking one song and that song is this is how we do it by Montaille Joule. Oh yeah, return to the old school and return to the evil sinister half-step we're going to be talking about that sinister half-step up like we talked about on an earlier episode. I'm so excited for this one. I'm very excited too. I'm actor writer director and sometimes DJ Diallo Riddle. And I producer DJ songwriter and musicologist luxury aka the guy who whispers interpolation. And for the first time ever broadcasting from the Spotify studios in Hollywood, this is one song. The show where we break down the stems and stories behind iconic songs, a crash on res telling you why they deserve one more listen. You will hear these songs like you've never heard them before and you can watch one song on YouTube and Spotify while you're there please like and subscribe. And if you're looking for even more music facts, more conversations and more us, we've got a Patreon now go to patreon.com/DialloLuxury that's patreon.com/ourNames and every week we're doing a bonus episode there and it's absolutely free. And it's a lot of fun. Alright so Diallo, you mentioned to me as we were preparing for this episode that this song was kind of the soundtrack to your college experience. Do you remember the first time you ever heard it? Yeah, I mean like when I think about college is one of the songs that always comes out. I mean this song was everywhere when I was in college. It was a huge hit in the dining halls and it always felt like it was a song that every DJ was playing and by the time I became a DJ myself, I got off this little star but I've literally started spinning some plates, I got it. It's a song, it's so easy to find like the first part of the song like we've talked in the past, I was hard like some songs are a little bit off. They're a little wonky. It's hard to mix them in and always have them land on the one so to speak. Not this song if you know what you're doing easy to bring in on the beat. So much energy when it starts and as a DJ you feel like, oh okay, Montel's got the party, you know, he's got the next three minutes of the party covered for me. And this is also one of the songs that not only has a song itself is like iconic and it's a party jam. It's doing what it's saying. It's like referring to itself. This is how we do it. Well, I think then transfer into your daily life as just a phrase that pops in your head when you're checking out at the shot. This is how you check out at the shopping mall. You know, like it's like, no, I've always said this. This song. The title is so geniusly vague, it can apply to anything like, you know, you can be the head of a corporation announcing like some solidaries would be like, this is how we do it, and everyone will think about it. And then they'll go listen and then pennies forever. You can be some shoplifters at a mall, spotting out the forever 21 and be like, this is how we do. Montag Jordan. It can be, it can be positive. It can be very negative. But it's so wonderfully vague. There's not a single person who hasn't thought at some point. People in the sense that like once you hear it, Montag Jordan is in your brain forever for the rest of your life on a nearly weekly basis, if not more frequently. Not even more. And again, just think about the words, this is how we do it, this not just not defined. We also not defined and it really not. It's all pronouns. It's the ultimate pronoun song. I remember when we were at Fallon one time, we were like, we should do a song called. That's how we do. Just come up with a melody, get Katy Perry and Jimmy to sing it. What about you, Luxury? What was the first time you heard this song? I definitely heard it in college too, it's a college party song, it's what it is. It is the perfect song for the peak of the night and that's interestingly part of the original beginning. Yeah, let's talk about them. It's like everything kind of builds to it and then because the night generally has a vibe, what's the word, a path, shall we say. And the path, it's like a ramp onto the freeway. But then like everyone, when the party's gotten going, you've got that kind of cohesion and then you dial it up to 11, this is that 11 song. You know, every DJ when they're first starting off, it's like, I want to take the crowd on a journey. It's like when writers, and I'm one of them, it's like when writers are like, the city is a character too. And that's it. It may sound a little bit like a cliche, but it's a useful cliche. It's a cliche. It's a cliche because there's an element of truth. That's right. There's an element of truth there. You don't want to start the night with this is how you do it. It's definitely like I have, I have, I have had DJs open for me where they just blow through all the hits. Like they come on. They're like, what's the biggest song I could play in the big, you just like, that's an amateur move right there. All right. Yeah. You're never opening me. Gradually ease us in. Now as we said, this song is a quintessential party song, but it's really specifically a West Coast party song in a way, and you know, it's got all the references to South Central. And we're going to get into that too when we talk about the lyrics musically. It also feels connected to a lot of the music that was coming out of the West Coast at that time. This is not very far from the G funk and even the gangster rap scenes of that time. And for Montel Jordan, that was kind of the point. He grew up in LA. He played piano in church. And as he was growing up, there was one song he noticed. He played at other parties. In the back of his mind, he's like, one day when I have my big break, I'm going to sing and rap over this song when the moment comes. No, that's hilarious. Yeah. The song is Children's Story and this song is come out by Slick Rick and it come out in 1988. But here's the thing, when you're at Pepperdine a couple of years later, like this is part of the old school said, like, we're going to talk about this a little bit like it was already old. It's already old. Seven years is a long amount of time in this period of hip-hop. Like we were talking about this before the show how that seven years means a lot when you're a teenager or even when you're in your early 20s, it can be a third, even half of your life. So when DJs would go to their old school, they're only playing songs that they were playing now. These are like songs for 2018. Yeah, when you were in college, you were in early pre-teen, potentially when you know, seven years earlier, but also musically so much changed from '88 to '95 in a way different way than like 2019 to now. Like music has not radically been transformed in quite the same way as it did in the previous era. You can make the case that music is not changing, especially hip-hop is not changing as quickly as it was. Yeah, absolutely. Also, I just want to point out, he was at Pepperdine. I always say kids at Pepperdine are freaking spoiled. Like, if you've ever been to Pepperdine, like, they have their colleges on the beach. Like, I don't even understand what that is as somebody who's always trudging through a sad, snowy new England winter. But I was going to hold my fire here, but like, can you not say the same thing about Harvard students? We weren't on the beach. You weren't on the beach? It was no beach. I read about these. There was no absence of privilege there, I would imagine. But yes, no beach, fair point. Like he said, you know, you're a DJ too. There are always those songs I used to call "Midnight" songs, those songs that are big enough that you can play them after midnight on New Year's Eve or just at the height of the party. And everyone's going to be happy and go crazy. And Children's Story by Slick Rick is one of those songs. Let's hear a little bit of a Children's Story. Looked around good and from expectations, he decided he'd hit one of the subway stations, but she was coming and he made a lap. He was running top to me, so he was out of breath. Not an old man down, it's war. He killed him. You know, here's the thing. So iconic. I don't know if anybody like Cole Porter was one of the first lyricists to really string together a phrase. Like, I think that Slick Rick in the 80s, his storytelling was so phenomenally un-tortured. You're at the edge of your seat. It's like so interesting, like it's endlessly interesting, you want to know what happens next. So many of his songs were actually telling stories, but the storytelling aspect was so unique for him. So good. It was so good. And then you've got that, which I actually started doing, like, old school, like I started doing the Roger Rabbit and the Wap in my seat, like these are, like, move that you have to make your body. Absolutely. Absolutely. That sound just gets you going. You can imagine being at these parties with Montel that time and just going nuts. But then his Lilt, the way he, his cadence, his accent, he has a British accent. It's so special. It's like so unique. And he changes his voice from different characters to this day any time I talk about my kids. I feel like sometimes I inadvertently imitate him doing the kids at the top, and he's like, well, the kid voices at the top, the very top of the song. He's like, they're like, hey, we're just a bedtime story, please. All right, kids. You guys get into bed. Okay. Yeah. He's like, he's doing all these voices. Yeah. - The whole song has the word lilt. Everything about the song is lilting. How his cadence, his accent, his British accent, the beats kind of are lilting beats. We'll talk more about the beats when we get to the stems, the bass line, the interpolation. There's a lilt to the whole thing that's really cool. - It's really cool. - And it goes with his eye patch. - He's got an eye patch. How can anybody with an eye patch not be cool, am I right? Surely you have to graduating Montel who worked on a mixtape that got the attention of Russell Simmons and that's what allow Montel to become the second R&B artist to sign to Dev Jam. Do you know who the first was? - I do not. - How about Orange Juice Jones? I saw you and him walking in the rain. ♪ I saw you walking in rain ♪ - This is how we do it. It was actually one of the last songs to come together for his debut album. How many times will we done songs? They were like, oh, we've got a little bit of time left. Let's just do that last song. Day last soul, me, myself, and I comes to mind. What are some other ones that you-- - I can't remember, but with this one, this is on purpose. This isn't one of those where desperate, we don't hear a single, like the classic line to the record company doesn't hear a single. So you go back and it's Eminem probably, or Tom Petty in that case. In this case, he saved it to the end. He tells the story that he had been saving this since probably age 11 or whatever it was. And they did all the other songs first. And then he was ready to do the one we're talking about today. - I like the fact that he and one of our unsung heroes on this episode is co-writer OG Pierce. They were working on this track. And as he says it, they were just workshopping melodies and lyrics over it. And at one point, they were both suddenly hit with, this is how we do it as the refrain. - Yeah. And they look at each other and they're like, this is something, we have to do something with this. They knew it was the thing. To combine with the sample, that was the hook and then the rest of the lyrics were built around that. Everything else came from just piecing the peanut butter with the chocolate in that moment, so to speak, you know? - Perfect. - Absolutely. - A little bit more about OG Pierce. There's not a lot out there, but he did also produce something for the honey's, the follow-up single. - Oh, so the follow the honey's. Ah yeah, makes sense. ♪ All the honey's again ♪ ♪ Bring the things right above them ♪ ♪ I'll make my song ♪ - Follow-up single. And anyone on to work with, he did Ula-la with Kulio a couple of years later. - Unfortunately, OG Pierce did pass away. At 46, way too young, way too young. But I guess, you know, for better or worse, left us with a wonderful legacy of some great music. Now when it came time to record the song, Montel knew he wanted some of that vibe that Marvin Gaye has on "Got to Give It Up," which is famously like Marvin Gaye, Don Cornelius' sole train. Like, it's kind of like a very fun group of people. - It's a party vibe, it's a party vibe. I tell you, it's a party vibe. - Hey brother, hey dude, hey dude. (upbeat music) I love when albums and songs can start off like that. So Montel invited some of his friends down. To paramount recording studios here in L.A. on Santa Monica Boulevard, they basically come through and have a party. As he tells it, he set up a keg on one side of the room, liquor on the other, I guess it was dealer's choice. And in the center, he put an omnidirectional microphone which he used to capture the sounds of the group, as well as that this is how we do a vocal. - Which is so brilliant. It's such an underrated, it's kind of like having a laugh track. It's like, you're suggesting to the listener what they should do. - Oh yeah. - And it worked. - You hear a party in the song, you're gonna play that song out of party. - As a guy who works in comedy, I'm actually in some ways jealous of shows like Chappelle Show, which had videos that they're not like us and no, they're not shot in a studio, but I heard what he did was he would show the sketches back to a live studio audience and get those real reactions. It is pathologian, just the degree to which when we hear other people laugh, it's like, oh well, there must have been something funny about that. I am jealous of it because nowadays we work in the sort of like post-the-office phase of comedy where it always has to-- - Yeah, isolated. You never get to hear other people laugh. - Weird fun fact, those laugh tracks, even on modern shows, are still primarily from like the '50s and '60s. So everybody's dead. - You're using same laughs. - You're hearing dead man laughter. I hate to break it to you. - I love that. - Original sampling. - This is the original sampling. And it's usually a guy, the laugh track is usually brought in the same boxes that they've always used. It's not like a digital box, it's like the, yeah, there's like a guy who shows up. - There's like a tape, because there's also like levels. - But people's right. - But there's also levels so you can like, there's like the loud woman. You can have the loud woman be higher or lower. - You have like the 1960s, ooh, depending. - Oh, everyone's going, oh, when there's a pop-up. - There's a laughter, a furious laughter, all that stuff. - By the way, Diallo, you call this on the quintessential party anthem. First of all, does that mean it's the fifth most essential? Because of it's the quintessential? I've never broken down that word, but it's a weird one. - And if so, when you play it, what are you playing before or after? - Oh, no, you're putting me on the math spot, love. - What are the other four songs? - Oh gosh, you know, I mean, this song has definitely moved into a certain pantheon of like, you know, these songs can be played at weddings around the world and nobody's confused. - You will destroy. - You will, you will answer more. - So I would say in front of this is how we do it, maybe September by Earth went in fire. - Okay. - Um, ironically got to give it up, still a hit. I want you back by the Jackson Five. This is a really interesting list. I'm definitely on the spot. And I'm gonna go with Twist and Shout by the Beatles. Those are maybe the four wedding songs that might go in front of, this is how we do it by Montau Jordan. - Have you played it at a wedding? Because I have, I have DJ this song at a wedding. - Oh, I've definitely, I've played it. I might have played it in my wedding. - So listeners out there, we have a Patreon and we're also available to DJ weddings. - That should be our top level Patreon by the way. For 10 grand, you get both of us to DJ your wedding. - That's a promise to you. - You have a 10 grand, we will show up. You can marry us, actually. We will divorce our wives and disown our children. Give us $10,000. - That's all we need to get through the summer. - You can give us a playlist. You can give us a do not playlist. If you don't want any Fergie, at your wedding, I hear you guys, but I do love what I am, so that's just me. That's, that's how I get. - You love him. - I love him. I'd marry him without $10,000. - All right, we're gonna take a quick break, but when we get back, we're gonna hear Montel Jordan's isolated vocals and make a sink. And we're gonna take you on an interrelation journey back to a legendary artist, sampled in not just this song, but literally hundreds and hundreds of songs. Stick around, we'll break it down. All right, we'll go back to one song. Let's get into the stems. Luxury, should we start with the drums? - Start with the drums. - That's it, you've heard the loop that goes through the entire song. - Yeah. - That's how we do it. That's it, pretty simple. - And that sort of tracks with children's story, 'cause I don't remember there being too many changes in the loop on children's songs. - That's absolutely right. And since you mentioned it, let's play them back to back and then we're gonna do a closer listening. So you can hear the ways in which it's transformed because in my brain, they were more similar sounding than actually they are. - Oh, wow, okay, let's listen. - So here's just a brief snippet. So you can train your ears to listen. Here's this is how we do it. Now listen to that beat, right? And here's the original from which there is a sample, but there's also a lot more going on. Children's story by Slick Rick from 1988. - Okay, I already hear one big difference. - You're already hearing some difference. Let's do a closer listen now. I'm gonna isolate that even more. So here are the drums from this is how we do it. This is just one bar, I'll play it. And then I'll give you the back-to-back with Slick Rick's version of it. With what is sample, I should say. (upbeat music) And here is Slick Rick, children's story. (upbeat music) Back-to-back again. (upbeat music) - I think what's most similar about that. First of all, it is a sample, but here's a couple of the transformations. There are, there's a layered kick drum. It's probably in 808. - Yeah. - That covers up a little bit of the top end, especially of the Slick Rick. And then the snare. - This I was gonna say, the snare is what jumps out when I was like, oh, I already hear it. Like to me by 95, you know that you want this party to jump off, so like you definitely want to be hitting that snare hard. It's got a hard snare. But even more, I was gonna say it's replaced with a clap. I don't even hear it. - I was gonna say, I don't know enough about the snare but I was gonna say like that snare clap is loud and it's doing a lot of work. And it's in contrast to children's story where at that same point, it sounds like just a rim shot or something like it's not that loud at all. - So listen for this snare in Slick Rick because you won't hear it and this is how we do it. (upbeat music) - That's a reverb on that. It's very, it's pitched up. It's an Oberheim DX, I believe. That was the drum machine. He was used to go back to our Jimmy Jam episode, go back to Blue Monday, uses the same drum machine. So that's the snare and it's pitched up which is why it's kind of high pitched and it's got reverb. But I do not hear that at all 'cause it's completely obliterated by this 1995 party jam clap. Hear that it is again. Listen to this. - You like this? (upbeat music) - What's left to me from the original sample in the percussion at all is just there's a little bit of that high end that's coming from the DX's shaker and high hat combination, I should say. - Can you play Montel Jordan? - Sure. - One more time. - And here's what's listed for it goes. And it's in the high end. listen for that pattern. Just one six heath of that that that that that that that that that. And can I just say without the bat I'm thinking that I'm hearing atomic doll. Okay, and I think the claps are definitely George. Yeah, like that that feels like if you if you put them back to back all of a sudden slick Rick sounds like a song produced in New York or rent in the late eighties, but that drum beat on this is how we do it definitely has that West Coast atomic dog. 100% going on. I would bet my life on that being a sample of a if it's not atomic dog. It's an undiscovered layer that isn't currently on any sampling sample spotter website, including, including song DNA, which by the way, I've got it on our phones here song DNA spotify has this really cool feature in beta for spotify premium, which is literally they bought who sampled and it's integrated now into spotifies experience. So based on that music nerd's dream. Yeah, I know it's really close really well done. And we would have we would have told you if it wasn't well done because we are the uber nerds of music sample them and discussion, shall we say on at least in this podcast format. So we like how it's done. And there isn't anything there that is revealing a specific Parliament Funkadelic song. Boy, to my ears, that is a George Clinton, it sounds like atomic dog very well be a atomic dog, but we don't know that because we should say thanks to who sampled and song DNA. We don't see it in that mix, but it definitely evokes that. And that's why I think some of that West Coast vibe in this is how we do it comes through this not there in children's story. Sure. And it's also the layering is the transformation. So one important part about like the exchange from and there's a third layer will be getting into their three songs were talking about today that share elements is how transformed they are when you isolate each of the elements will be talking about. Yeah, they go from it's like a game of telephone. Like it changes each time and by the time it gets to especially the link in the chain for the melody will be talking about. Boy, it is it is so different from the original. You can still hear elements of it. You can hear where it came from, but it's not the same anymore. By the way, if you want to use song DNA on a song like this is how we do it by Montau Jordan just search for the song, select the song and then go to the three dots on the upper corner. And if you scroll down just a little bit, you'll see explore song DNA still in the beta form. But then you just click on that and all of a sudden I have so much information I can see who actually contributed in making the song Montau Jordan O.G. Peers Ricky ML Walters, we know that slick Rick. We got wine. And Bob Morse. So I can click on wine. Oh, and it's going to tell me he was studio personnel and a remixer. I'm going to lose a whole 24 hours just going on a deep dive. This is insane. And on top of being able to see who created the song. Man, you've got all that wonderful information we used to get from who sampled. I can see exactly the songs they were sampled. Children's story by slick Rick, Jimmy Spicer's money dollar bill, y'all, this is so dope. I mean another thing to notice in this is that there is a new Jack swing vibe going on here because there is it is, it has a really new Jack swing absolutely. But 1988 when children's children's story had that little to remember I was saying Lilt, I think part of the Lilt I'm noticing now I would have been the earliest new Jack swing 1988 is like dead on like that is definitely jam and Lewis. Actually, I guess 86 jam and Lewis technically with Janet Jackson, right? A little bit. You know, when I think new Jack swing. I'm definitely thinking more Teddy Riley groups like guy and troupe all of that. All of that has happened by 88 and go back to our Jimmy jam and Terry Lewis episode. He does. He has a legitimate claim for on Janet Jackson control rocker, they're being some of that. But anyway, some of the Lilt is coming from that that's got a swing that's got a little bit of a jazzy swing to it. It's a triplet. It's three over four. All right, let's move on to the base. All right, let's listen to the base from this is how we do it. What are you hearing? I'm hearing a I'm hearing a keyboard. I'm hearing a bass keyboard. I'm hearing. Yeah, it sounds like an upright bass as played in 1995 on a keyboard. I played on a keyboard. Yeah, but it's meant to evoke the sound of an upright. It's got that kind of percussive sound to it. For whatever reason, I just, I just don't imagine a cake on one side liquor on the other side. And then a guy with an upright bass. It's kind of classy. It kind of plays into the jazzy vibe, right? Right, right, right. But this is definitely a keyboard, right? I believe that is a keyboard. I don't know why even when they put in the string sound, it always sounds like someone's hitting keys. Because it's probably a Yamaha, if it's not a DX7 or a Rx5 something like a mid 90s keyboard, they haven't dialed in the, it's still uncanny valleys. It doesn't sound like what it purports to me. The strings, the horns, they're not really strings and horns. They're a keyboard strings and words, which now has its own charm to it. And back in the day, it became, you just got used to the sound, your ears got used to it. But the earliest version of all these simple samplers and synthesizers, those sounds not sounding like the original, like people would be upset by it. They'd be like, why did I, this isn't real music? If you're just looking for an upright bass, you're disappointed. But if you're just like us, kids listening to these sounds coming out of speaker, it's open up a whole new range of sounds. That's right. That's right. So the other thing that's going on here, and we've talked about this before, we talked about a go back and listen to our Nause episode in New York State of Mind, NY State of Mind, about 90 to 10 episodes back. There is a flat two going on in here. When you hear bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, and then it could go bomb, bomb, bomb. It's going up a half step, okay? So that's important. And once again, it's arguably the most important note of the song. What the difference here is that flat second on Nause, we talked about how it made the mode "Fridgian," that wonderful word "Fridgian." I'm not sure this is "Fridgian" technically, because in the vocal, he never sings that half step up. He's never, the song's an F, but he's never singing the G flat, which would be above it. We'll talk about that more. Because this is how we do it. That's right. That's absolutely true. So what's happening is that the note that he's singing this, this is how we do it. That's a half step, but it's the flat six. So technically, the flat six is just a normal minor key. We're getting in the weeds here, but that's what we do on the show. Yeah, that's why you love us. This is definitely a flat two. Whether or not it's "Fridgian," though, got questions for you. If you're a music nerd, a theory nerd out there, and you think this is "Fridgian," let me know in the comments. Yeah, to my ear, I don't think it's "Fridgian." Comments are for you. And just one more, if you haven't heard that episode, go back and listen to it. What that does, the effect of this flat second, is that it sounds sinister. It sounds kind of. It does. Right? It gives it kind of a mysterious element. Sometimes that "Fridgian" comes in and gives us hotness, and gives us heat. And sometimes it gives us, like, sinister mysteriousness. That's absolutely right. You hear the flat two in jazz and classical metal. And in this moment, you're starting to hear it more in hip-hop. Now, it's arguably extremely common. It's interesting that it went from being a relatively uncommon in popular music. Again, outside of jazz and classical and metal for that matter. Around this time in the mid-90s, you are starting to hear it more, especially in hip-hop. So, "Gin and Juice" also came out the year before, Snoop Dogg. Nice, as I mentioned. Miss Elliott, a little bit later. Get your freak on. And then, to this day, it has, again, in this modern era, maybe one out of five hip-hop songs to my ears. I'm hearing an awful lot of flat seconds. You can hear it in Kendrick's DNA. I'm hearing an humble. There's Tyler, the creator, songs, "Tildish Gambies," a little oozzy verit. The list goes on. But in 1995, it was still relatively new to our ears. And that, I think, helps give this song some of the flavor. Because when it goes there, it's, like, it's so tense. You really want to get back to that home base of the app when it goes up that half-step to the flat second. So, that's what's going on in the bass. Can I ask you a question? That bass that's so prevalent and awesome. Is that a sample? So, this is a replay. And what's interesting is I hadn't even noticed until I went to break it down for this episode. It is in "Slick Rick's Children's Story." He does do that, but not until two minutes in. The first two minutes of the song, he's just playing. I'll just play you the song. Notice we're not going up half-step. You are hearing that half-step thing happen. But as I mentioned, it's not the half-step from the root. It's da da da da. Yeah. That's the fifth or the flat sixth fifth. So, again, technically, it's in. There's a half-step that's being semi-synastory. We haven't gone there yet. Once we get to the middle of the song, and then we're hearing it a lot. It gets halfway through the song. We get even more synastory. It makes sense because the story has gotten more sinister. That, to me, is like a very sort of, like, obvious ingenious creative choice. Let's hear that sounds after the two-minute mark. "Siren Sound," did he seem to stound it in? Before a long, the little boy got surrounded. He dropped his gun, so went to glory. And this is the way I have to end this story. He was only one team. I don't know, man. It's Dream. I still hear him scream. ♪ The cop shot the kid, I still hear him scream ♪ ♪ This ain't funny, so don't you dare laugh ♪ ♪ Just another case about the wrong path ♪ ♪ Straight for Noah, for your ass gets cast ♪ - Good night. - And now I always hear that they brought in that friggin' note at the end, and that's actually, when he literally says, "I have to end this story," so like-- - It enhances the storytelling. - Yeah. - It absolutely illustrates it. It's like Onomatopoeia with the music, it's perfect. - Perfect. - Consonance, Onomatopoeia. - Oh, and oh, and I want to do it. - In the bass line, you can hear where it's layered. It's overdubbed in 1988 technology. So it's kind of charmingly awkward. Here is the isolated bass line for Slick Rick. Children's story. (drumming) Right, you can hear it sort of awkwardly. - Yeah, it's overdubbed. - Bump, bump, bump, bump. I'll play that again, listen. (drumming) - Is he still playing the F? It's actually a moment of dissonance, 'cause the F is still playing, and there's an F sharp on top of it. - Bump, bump, bump. - It sounds messy, but we would have never heard that far. - No, and it's not a problem. And it contributes probably, even subtly psychologically, 'cause it's so buried in the mix. Maybe your brain partially picks up on that, and it's adding to your experience of the storytelling being like, oh no, something's happening. That's sinister, bad, the cops, whatever it is. - That's a really interesting thing to now notice, and never unhere again in the song Children's Story. - There's one last piece of samples from a children's story. Can you play that for us? - Sure, this is the keyboard, that iconic keyboard line. And as you'll notice, it's just a two-bar loop, it's not the entire thing. So this is what sample throughout the entirety of this is how we do it. (dramatic music) - And that's it. (laughing) - Yeah, 'cause by that point, you're listening to that, (dramatic music) - Well, I'm glad you mentioned that. We're about to get into the novel. - I've been listening to this song my entire life, and I knew that we were at some point going to be talking about, Bob J. So the episode, but is the, is that really the main crux of the novel? - We are about to take a deep dive into that, because, on close listening, we're about to discover together as friends and listeners, as an audience, we'll all be in the same room, listening and noticing what the transformation is, that telephone game that goes from Bob James to Slick Rick to Montel Jordan. There's something that remains from the original, and there's a lot that gets transformed and changed. - Sure, sure, I imagine that we'll be talking samples and interpolations. - We're gonna be, in this case, only talking about interpolations. - Yeah. - And there doesn't sound-- - Transformations. - But the question is, are we also talking about, or are we only talking about evocation combinations? - I know we were talking about that. - There's a lot in the mix here. - Yeah, yeah. For those of you who don't know what we're talking about, listen, it's fair, but among sample geeks, hip-hop heads, music nerds, there's the song-- - Interpolation cognizenti. (laughing) - No, that. There's an artist named Bob James. I think he would have to call him sort of a, he's a jazz musician, got a lot of amazing songs. Primarily, I think of him as primarily in the '70s, even though he has music in the '60s and the '80s, but I think it's his '70s catalog that has been sampled so much by hip-hop, by drum and bass, by like anybody who samples Bob James in his compositions, and his drummer, all of those people like, we have to stop and talk about it because they've been sampled thousands and thousands of times. Among the many, many, many songs and compositions for '70s that you've heard before, take me to the Mardi Gras. Angela, theme from Taxi. Sign at the Times, Westchester Lady, and the song we're talking about today, which is-- - It's Nautilus. - Nautilus. Gosh, this man, can I ask you right off the bat, who is his drummer? Listen, he works with a lot of players across his catalog, but this is from his first record from Bob James I. - Really scary cover. Really scary cover. Don't look at it in the dark. Go ahead. 1974, Bob James is playing Rhodes and Arp. His drummer is Adrice Muhammad, legendary Adrice Muhammad. And the bass player, importantly, is Gary King. And he's got other players on it, but these guys, their work has been heard. - Yeah. - On hundreds of songs. We'll be talking about that more later. - We will, but I just got to say right off the bat, that like, every single bit of Nautilus, and so many of its songs, but I'm thinking it's specifically Nautilus today. So many parts of this song have been sampled. I do believe, especially based on our conversation with FF5, Freddie on a recent episode, that most of what put this song on hip-hop's radar was the breakbeat. There's a wonderful classic breakbeat towards the middle of the song. And I feel like that breakbeat has been sampled so many times, and that's probably the most anonymous part. Like, it's such a classic breakbeat that like, when you hear it, you just think, oh, that's a hip-hop song. You don't necessarily think that's Bob James's Nautilus. But if you go and listen to this whole song, you're going to be blown away when that breakbeat comes in, because you're going to be like, oh, yeah, that's one of those classic. It's like, amen. You know, it's like one of those classic breakbeat. It's give the drummer some. It's one of those breakbeats that you can see guys out in the park, you know, going back and forth on their records. While people rap. All right, without further ado, let's listen to a little piece. This is Bob James Nautilus from 1974. I count the number of notes in that bass line. And first of all, note that it's a bass line. That's the first thing I want to point out is that, so that's Bob James Nautilus. That is a line that we're going to be hearing in all of the songs, but they're transformed. It's a little different every single time. And can I just take a step back and just say like, you know, it's spacey. It sounds a little science-fictiony. Yeah. It also sounds like thinking, if that makes sense. Like, it sounds like your brain at work, like that, that, you know, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I feel like that's because it's the kind of song or that, that arpe, I think it's an arpe, a very early synthesizer that's making all those kind of ethereal, spacey sounds. But also in the TV shows of that time and the movies of that time, it would have been one of the instruments used to illustrate mystery and space. Yeah. But I think it's-- Stranginess. What wonderful stuff was in the water that, you know, that sound, which doesn't really exist. I mean, like, it might pop up on like a John Cage record or something like that, or in earlier decades. But, you know, to me, like, it goes towards, and this makes sense why it pops up so much in hip-hop. So much of hip-hop, especially in the 90s, was like, sort of like, I hate to be so blunt, but like a thinking man's music. Like, you're supposed to be like locked in on the lyrics. And you're supposed to be non-your-head, like, letting the lyrics into your head. And yeah, maybe we were just influenced by a television, but that sound does, to me, sort of represent sort of like, this is how your brain works. And some of the best, like, Tribe Called Quest samples, like when the loop is in a weird place, and you just feel like your brain can, like, fall out of focus. I don't know. I think you might be right about the TV thing, though, because I've always said, as much as I love Bob James. And this is not a diss, this is a compliment. His music always sounds like it should be in 70s detective shows. You know what I mean? Like, they're always, I always see like a burgundy, you know, car with like a gas guzzler. Definitely burgundy. And like, it's a nighttime scene. You've got to find yourself there. It's sharp, but I just feel like it's soft or smooth on it. Absolutely. It's got that really cool lighting, not that harsh LED lights that we got in the city's nowadays, but it's got like that soft amber color interior. A lot of polyester. No, it's a beautiful sound. It's such a cool song. So there's that other element of this is how we do it. That to me sounded like it was from a children's story and from Nautilus. But can you play us the piano part? All right. So let's listen to what you're referring to the piano part. We just heard as the baseline of Nautilus. Let's play them side by side. And I'll slow it down and break it down. So you can hear how by the time we got from Bob James through children's story to Montel Jordan, it is transformed and changed in many ways. Let's start with Bob James. Those seven notes. First of all, it matters that there are only seven. Count them. Here they go. [Music] And just to name the notes, right, just by their scale degree, that's one, five, four, three, four, seven, one. One, five, four, three, four, seven, one. Now let's listen to Slick Rick Children's Story. By the way, we're moving from A minor to F minor. But listen for those notes and count them. [Music] Okay. There's nine. Wanna hear it again? [Music] We have two more notes. Transformation number one. Transformation number two. We're no longer playing, it's not bass. Yeah. We're on piano now. Okay. So we've moved up the register and octave possibly two. You know, considering that it's bass. I think the bass is doubled by guitar and the Bob James Regional. We have two new notes. The pattern is now new. We've added two more notes. Da, da, da, da. It's one, five, one, four, one, three, four, seven, one. What he added is. [Music] The original is. [Music] And this is. [Music] So this note comes in twice. [Music] Just to give it a little more bounce. So that's the first transformation. And by the time we get to, this is how we do it. And this is the crazy one. This is the thing where you're going to have like Mandela effects. Try that effect. Whatever it's called. In my mind, I never noticed that this was also different. Here is this is how we do it. Count the notes and notice what they are. [Music] I reach for my authority and I turn it up. It's hard to hear. I'll isolate that. I'll isolate that piano part. It's hard to hear in the mix. I'm already blown. Hard to hear in the mix, but this is what's being played. (laughing) (upbeat music) I would have never thought I was listening to. That's crazy. So we're keeping the piano. We're keeping the two extra notes that slick Rick added in children's story. Yeah. We're keeping that it's on the piano. Yeah. But we rearranged the notes. So now we're going 1, 3, 1, 4, 1, 7, 8, 7, 1. (laughing) It's the same pattern, the same rhythmic motif. It's definitely the main male effect. Because we definitely, if you were, if I thought it was exactly like children's story. Let's go back to Bob James and listen to that next to it. It is definitely listen to this. So here's this, I'll play back to back. This is how we do it and then Bob James. (upbeat music) I can't even sing that. I don't, I don't. It's the good of my head, I'm dead. And then here's the Bob James where I'll begin. (upbeat music) Right? Listen, it's, Isn't it interesting to hear how that got transformed and how our brains kind of tricked us this whole time? How many long, long wedding ceremonies have I heard? Montel Jordans is how we do it. I never thought that that's how that part went. Right. And it's like that throughout the whole song. It's like that throughout the whole song. You're always hearing instead of, here I'll play them both on the keyboard again. Because side by side is the same instrument. You can really hear how they're different. For what, Bob James was. Yeah. (upbeat music) Slickrick was. (upbeat music) And I have to remind myself what it is. I know what we ought to do. We absolutely ought to. And then this is how we do it is. (upbeat music) (laughing) And they're similar, the pattern. There's very, do you think this was done so that they wouldn't have to pay for that? Yes. Because there isn't anything Bob James in the song. I don't sound alike in TV. Like it's like, oh, that's supposed to be OPP. I know it by nature. But it's a little different. And the extraction of an element that you can legally use that evokes something else. This is the evocation combination idea that I've been propagating. Because it's such a big part of what musicians do. And especially composers and film TV and parody writers. You're looking to find something that will make you think of something else, but not be something else. Close enough, but it's not the same thing. And it's this pattern, which by the way, is a pattern we've talked about on the show many times. This is Phil Collins. I can feel it. It's mel-y mel-y white lines. Da-da, da-da, da-da, da-da, da-da. Right? We hear this three over four kind of Hemiola or Tristio thing. Many times across music, nobody owns it. It evokes a lot of things, but it's so interesting when you isolate what's the same across all three of the songs in that pattern. It's just this rhythmic thing. And of course, some of the notes, but we went from bass to piano. We added two notes, we changed the notes. It's no longer Bob James. Can I say that's the one thing I think our show does really well, which is that you think you know these songs, but you don't know these songs at all. And you'll never hear them the same way again. It's like on Dayline when they find out that the husband's the killer. And they're like, we didn't know him at all. It's exactly like Dayline. You didn't know Montel Jordan at all. Montel Jordan, too, be clear, has killed no one. He's dead of murder. He's not Dayline. That's one song. Well, like I said, this song is a DJ's dream. Not only does it keep the party rocking for over three minutes, but the way that he comes in on the beat is just so helpful. Let's play Montel Jordan. By the way, Montel, amazing voice. Really good voice. Let's play Montel Jordan's isolated iconic opening. ♪ This is how we do it ♪ - Oh, I'm doing it. ♪ This is how we do it ♪ That party, party the little flat on purpose of it. That's how they do it. - Yeah. - It's attitude. You don't want all your boys, you know, drunk off kegs, trying to sing. Let me be wrong. - Yeah, they're rocking. It's rockest party. - This is how we do it. Like you're like, hey, you don't want it to sound church. - Calm down, Phil. - This is not choir. - It's time to stride. - No. This is party, you're drunk, you're wasted. It's a party, you're having fun. - Yeah, no, I love it. And again, can't be overstated. How much it's on the rhythm? - Yeah. ♪ This is how we do it ♪ - And you know, that's the only time in the whole song we hear that melody. That's trying. - He never repeats that, which is crazy. - It's one of those great moments. Jay-Z has allowed me to reintroduce myself. My name is Hove. Like anytime that the singer comes in by himself or herself, right on the beat. - Yeah. - It's gonna help your song do well. Because it makes the DJ look like, even the amateur DJs look like they know what they're doing. - Oh, because counting in. We do avoid the songs that have challenging intro. That don't have on the beat, easy to mix intro. We do, we avoid them. - I avoid them, yeah. - We avoid them like this way. - There's some songs I still stay away from. And by the way, Pharrell is really smart because I feel like Pharrell. - Don't. - Don't, don't, don't. - Bump, bump, bump. Oh, see, I'm smoking that now. They're like, you know, he always says a lot of songs where there's just a very simple count down. - If there are people out there who don't know, every Pharrell song begins with a four count. Don't, don't, don't, don't. - That's brilliant. - It's his signature. ♪ My milkshake brings all the boys to the yard ♪ ♪ And they're like, it's better than yours ♪ (upbeat music) - And when you can bring in just something as simple as like a human voice or that one Pharrell, you know, sound, it's just going blah, blah, blah, blah. Like, it gives the crowd a time to react. - Yeah. - They know what those songs about to begin when that drop comes in. - That's the hip hop drop. - Yeah. - People talk about the house drop a million times. The hip hop drop is usually at the beginning of the song where it goes from one instrument or voice into the song. And that, my friends, you know, to the beach all. (imitates music) - That millisecond people will freak the hell out. - They can't, man. - They're so stoked. - They absolutely freak out. - Oh, it's about to happen. - So people who listen to the show and they're working on music, give us a count in or give us a couple of lyrics on the rhythm. Let's get back into the verse. There's so much funny stuff going on in this song. You can tell Montel is a man with a sensational sense of humor. Let's play a little bit of the first verse. ♪ So I reach for my 40 and I turn it up ♪ ♪ Designated drive, I take the keys to my truck ♪ ♪ Hit the shark 'cause I'm baited ♪ ♪ Honey's in the streets, say money ♪ ♪ Yo, we made it ♪ - Guys, fight me. He doesn't say, hit the shore 'cause I'm fated. I know we're in California. - Pepper dot the beach, and he's singing about a party on the west side, which back then would have been the west of central, south central, west of central. And he says, hit the shaw as in Khrinshaw. People forget that Khrinshaw Boulevard was. Hit the shaw 'cause I'm fated. - Oh, shaw. - Honey's in the streets, say money, yo, we made it. How many streets, honestly, do you have at the shore? Probably one. - And how many ocean Boulevard? - And how many accents is he dropping in this song? 'Cause that's like, there's a little bit of a slick to some of the vowels every now and then. Like he's doing a little bit in there. Well, he's definitely, we'll get to it when he gets to the verse. He definitely, at one point, just goes full slick, Rick impression. - Yes, he does. - But there's so much that I want to unpack in this first verse if it's cool. Can you play us the very next part of the song? It feels so good. ♪ It feels so good in my hood ♪ ♪ And tonight ♪ ♪ The summertime skirts and the guys ain't canine ♪ ♪ All the gang bangers forgot about the drive-by ♪ - Ever since I was a kid, first off, Carl canine used to have a very popular line of clothing that we all, you know, some of us used to rock. (laughs) Cross colors, Carl canine, Fubu. Like these are like the classic urban wears of these, it's called the '90s. But then also the gang baggers forgot about the drive-by. Wasn't that a wonderful summer. Like they're like, we once made a joke like, "Hey, man, pull out your to-do list." Okay, we got, they forgot about the drive, man. - They forgot to do it. They forgot to do the drive-by. It was on their to-do list. - People lived. Unfortunately, the calendars came out. - They slept through their alarm clock? Like what happened? - See that's the problem nobody talks about. Like now we have all these reminders and stuff. - No one's gonna forget about anything. Unfortunately. - No one's gonna forget any more drive-by. - I wish they would forget about some of this stuff. I wouldn't forget about what's going on in the world. Can we go into the chorus? I want to hear the chorus because that is what gets the party started and it don't stop. ♪ So tip up your cup and throw your hands up ♪ ♪ And let me hit a party, say ♪ ♪ I'm kind of buzzed and it's all because ♪ ♪ This is how we do it ♪ - Okay, I just want to say, there's a lot of drinking in this song. ♪ So tip up your cup and throw your hands up ♪ ♪ I'm kind of buzzed and it's all because ♪ - Nice, woo! - Everything is like. - Love it. - I think me and my teller are the same thinner. - Yeah, you got it. - But think about that, there's a lot of drinking in this song and to know that there was a lot of drinking in the studio, now it all makes sense. - There's party song, party vibe. Party is in the song itself. There's literally a party in the recording of the song. - There's literally a red cup. This is like a lyrical red cup. I feel like this song was made for red cups. Can we go to verse two? There's another part in here that I think is worth noting. ♪ You see the hood's been good to me ♪ ♪ Ever since I was a lowercase G ♪ ♪ But now I'm a big G ♪ ♪ The girl see I got the money ♪ ♪ Hundred dollar bills, y'all ♪ ♪ They didn't get where from ♪ - This is one of those songs that I know every single lyric to. Like, you know, I know every single inflection. Maybe this is my new karaoke song, because I know every-- - Good one, and you sing it so well, yeah. - Well, thank you. I will be at the gas line in Santa Monica this Thursday. Hopefully, sobered up to sing this song. - Another opportunity to give us money directly. - Most seriously. Patriot people, you'll get our full calendar. - It's hard to meet us. - Implodes where we're picking up our kids and all the fun stuff we do. Hundred dollar bills, y'all. - Yep. - That's an interpolation, I guess you'd call it. - Let's check it out. It's a Jimmy Spicer interpolation that you've heard before. Here's the original money, dollar bill, y'all, 1983. Jimmy Spicer. (hip hop music) - It's a lot of money. [BLANK_AUDIO] the money. I love that Jimmy Spicer track. That's a great track. And then I wouldn't have known that Spicer track, but I would have heard cream by Wu Tang. Shout out to Jimmy Spicer. Shout out to Method Man as well. I think the one thing I'm noticing now that I'm here in the isolated Montel vocals is that he's really enunciating his words really, really hard, which I got to imagine like even though he's got this great singing voice, he also had some desire to be a rapper as well. I think that's probably. In fact, he does rap in the song. Can you play us the rap portion that I think comes after the second course? The DJ and Paul was his name. They came up to money. This is what he said. You know, Jay, you're going to make some cash. Still a million Rutgers and we're making the dash. I love that he did a slick Rick impression. It's so great. Yeah, I'm trying to remember what the specific like, why do we know that that's a slick Rick impression? Like what specifically? I think it's a sing song in nature. I mean, like, you know, you're an OG, you're going to make some cash. Yeah. Well, it's that sort of it's sort of silly, but it's also playful and fun. And again, when you're 21 years old, that seven years makes a big difference. So he's having fun. He keeps calling it the old school. Like he said, it would have been for now if you were talking about 2019. So I also think it's hilarious. It sticks with the trend. There was something in that water. Everybody who's in R&B or hip-hop of the 90s has to tell you what year it is. It's like for the non-tri, like, there's just like, they never let you go. Is it not? Is this 97? Yeah. We'll take triumph. Like they just always had to remind you what year it was. Nobody now does is like, yeah, 26. I've never I don't think I've heard anybody call out the year. You know what's interesting about that to me a little bit as a songwriter is like my one of my goals is when I'm making something. I want it to feel timeless. Yeah. I want it to be outside of time. And I also don't want it to be late. Like why you may be making it whenever like in in October and it comes out in January. 2000 and late. Yeah. You want to be 2000 and late. And so it's interesting like that you're right there is a currency for this era of hip-hop especially to like have the the time stamp right there in the song. They always put it on. And then I think it was sometime in the early 2000s. I forget if it was most deaf. It was one of like the really like thoughtful conscious rappers or whatever. I most deaf will hate that. Yaz and Dates and Apologies. But one of them said, yeah, so and so told me not to say the date because, you know, we got to make music. So at some point it came in that people were like, no, we're not going to say the date anymore. But that is something about it's 1991 in W.A. you see it. Like there's something that made it feel immediate right when they would say the year. I do. And that's also what legacy from early hip-hop which is live. Like when you're when you're just doing it not to be recorded necessarily. You are going to be talking about who's there with date, etc. Where you are. But once it gets recorded, it's interesting. Like the timelessness does get impacted slightly by their being a date. But it's not it really isn't there isn't anything negative about that. Like you're not going to not listen to it because the date. I'll still listen to it. Two years of mischief. 93 until infinity. So there you go. All right. Luxury now that we've heard the song. Tell us how the splits break down. I'm so curious how the splits break down on a roll. All school track. So for this is how we do it. We have 25% going to Montel. Do Sean Jordan. Whoo. 25% going to is producer OG Pierce. All right. The Pierce estate. 50% to Ricky Walters. AKA Slickrick. That's really where's Bob James coming to this? Well, I think as we notice there isn't any Bob James in there. What remains from Nautilus has been changed twice significantly transformed by the time what we hear of that is just it's really the pattern and a handful of notes. And there's no Bob James. I'm so happy to hear this because that's you know, that's sort of the opposite of what we usually hear. Usually it's like, I thought it was going to be 100% Bob James. And you know, Montel has to be on the remember win tour. You know, like no, he sounds like he was actually saved by a game of telephone. I personally think that might be part of it. I also think there's a lot of Bob James wonderful content out there. He's been a real historian. He's connected to the hip-hop community. He's even sampled himself and maybe we'll get to that in a second. So Bob James is very aware of his catalog being used across literally thousands of songs. He also has told stories about how some of them are wins and some of them are losses. I don't think that this is a loss. In other words, there were times that there were statute of limitations issues where he was unable to claim that he was sampled or interpolated because time ran out. He didn't want to put money into a lawyer to go litigate. There's a lot of really interesting stories from the early days of sampling that Bob James can tell, but from our understanding, this isn't one of them. This doesn't seem to be one that he has any sort of remnant feelings. I think he must notice as we do that it is not what he played. And I'll also say that, you know, when he taught to older, older black musicians who know Bob, they all say Bob is a really cool dude. I don't know why that means something to me. Like if he was like some guy, like some crutchy old guy's like, yeah, pay me my money. I feel certain way, but Billy's a really cool guy. When I first heard him on QLS, it changed my mind because in the back of my head, I, from seeing his name up here on a lot of credits and a lot of songwriting splits and seeing the numbers associated with them. Sometimes I'm like, man, like I, he should get something, but that seems like a lot. I actually was convinced that he's trying to do his best for himself, for the community, for music. He's a real musician. And in fact, the one thing that I love about when he talks about being sampled is he'll almost, I'll often hear him say, it's about the permission more than anything. It's not even about the money. It's just like, you took this and I didn't know about it. I might have done something different. We could have collabed. There's sort of this vibe of, we could have done something together. Had I known that you wanted to use some of my music, which I think is an interesting perspective. Listen, listen, key sweat. That classic early 90s R&B artists is like, hey, you can sample. We will let me hear it first because I might have creative input to give you before you just go and sample a willingness. I love that. And I think it's important to add to the list of reasons why it's important to clear samples. It's not always about the money. It's often about the money. It's frequently about the money, but it's not only about the money. You want to sample one song? It's about the money. Come find us. And let's keep going through the credits. So children's story is 100% slick Rick Ricky Walters. Oh wow. 100%. So this might be a case where I don't think Bob James knew about it. He might have missed the statute of limitations. There's definitely something there that he would have claimed. And this is before the, this is before the Bismarkey case too. So who knows? Yeah. That's right. 1988. It was Wild West back then. There might have been a clearance for 250 bucks on the master side anyway. This is beyond, you know, there's stories to be told there. But to be clear, you can see many interviews where Bob James talks about this is how we do it and slick Rick. He's fully aware of it. What's done is done at this point. And finally, not list is 100% ob James, which by the way, he did write that baseline. He talks about how he came up with that keyboard part, but it was performed by his bass player and guitar player. He's not actually playing it in the song, which I always find interesting when you have these like sample phantoms and, you know, ghost, you know, credit ghosts, as I call them, he's 100% of the songwriter and his musicians who you're hearing got paid a flat fee on the day, but they don't get any publishing splits for like, unlike Bob James. There you go. All right. So as we've been discussing all through this episode, this Bob James song, not list has been sampled many, many, many times and at least 144. If you scroll through song DNA, it's a very long scroll to see all the songs that have some association with not list. But what's interesting about it is that they're not all using the same break. In fact, I counted no fewer than seven or maybe even eight breaks throughout the song. I'm sure there are more. These are the different portions of the song that are used often on a song. There's like the drum break. Maybe there's two parts of it. Sure. Now this is like, this is like that thing where they're like, you know, the Native Americans would take every single piece of meat off of the, off of the bison. Nothing wasted. Nothing wasted. The only single is with the Alaskan piece of musical meat. The novelist has been removed by somebody. Yes. And I think that's actually very cool. I actually love the fact that there's not a single untouched piece. So let's play a game, which is called Nautilus or not. I'm going to play you hip-hop song. You have to listen. And with your discerning ear, tell me, do you hear a portion of Nautilus, the Bob James song being sampled? Or is it just another song with no Bob James in it? Wow. Okay. Cool. But there's only Nautilus, right? It's only Nautilus. Okay. Only Nautilus. Some of one of the seven or eight or more sections of the song that have been sampled. Are you hearing one of them? Okay. Here we go. Song number one, Nautilus or not? Y'all are riddle, but your ears on. I'm ready. Yeah. I think this would be day total 500 definitely samples of Nautilus. Absolutely right. Ghostface killer feeling correct. One of my favorites. Capitonna. This came out in 95, right? 96. 96. Yeah. I'm telling you. When he did this, it was another classic example. Ghostface killer not changing the song much. I just kind of like wrapping over the most obvious part of the song, but it worked because it felt subversive. It felt like there was too much instrumentation for a rapper to actually talk over it. He did it. They pull it off. This is one of my favorite. This guy. Capitonna. Ghostface killer. All of them. I love this song. And by the way, this is the first time today. We're hearing the sample of the Bob James song being used. The other two songs are interpolated and transformed. But this is the sample from that song. That's right. Great song. If you don't know Daytona 500, not the freaking album by push it to you. I'm talking about the song. Daytona 500 by Ghostface and Fritz. Check it out. All right. Song number two. [Music] Yo! D! [Laughter] A little bit fun. Yeah, that's absolutely nautilus. That is nautilus. Let's listen to where it comes from in the song. This is at 3 minutes and 29 seconds. This is such a good part of the song, too. [Music] Ooh! [Music] Ooh! [Music] Ooh! [Music] Ooh! [Music] It's actually so good. What's so cool is that we only hear that once. That's a major seventh interval played on this arp, which is the strange new synth. And then he goes on to play other strange intervals and pseudo melodies. It's a little latonal. But they picked out that part and turned it into a freaking hook. Is that it's such a hook? By the way, what song is that? Do you know? Yeah, that's Run DMC. Beats to the Rhine. To the Rhine. Under 1987. And with that repetition, that crazy interval, don't, don't, that's a major seventh. It's not dissonant, but kind of dissonant. It's just a hook, though. You know who else did that part of the song that I really, really like is Ra Kim and Eric Bee for a follow the leader? That's another great use of that particular part of the non of the sample. But wait a second. That is one of the songs. What? We're going to do it. But it's a different part of the song. Are there two parts of the song? My memory for follow the leader is definitely that there is a nodalist, so okay, we'll give you wine. That's a freebie for a nodalist or not. But it is definitely a different part of the song. Let's play it. But there might be two parts of the song, and I'm forgetting the other one that you're remembering. And you're forgetting the one that I'm remembering. Okay. Let's listen. Are you thinking of the. This is where it comes from. And this is two minutes and 26 seconds into Nodalist by Bob James. Yeah. It's different. That's a different part of the song. Yeah. And this might be the case where I just know the song too well that I'm complaining. Yeah. That's the part I thought it was. Yeah. I think it's the same. You're right. You're right. You're right. You're right. You're right. Oh my God. It's the same instrument. You're right. I can flate it at the table. I think this might be the Rhodes. Let's listen to these back-to-back. Because back-to-back is we're all learning today. Your brain can't too much time in between listening. You'll forget. So here's. It will say peace. Follow the leader. Here's two minutes, 26 seconds. From Follow the Leader. That was Eric B. and Rock Kim, Follow the Leader, 1988. Here's Bob James Nodalist. And now quickly before anything else gets said, here's Run DMC. Don't do it. I hear it now. I'm an idiot. I freaking killed myself. Yeah. But they're related. They're related. They're related. They're related. The same song. I love that. Do-do-do-do. Do-do-do. You say that's the Rhodes. Three minutes and 29 seconds sounds like the arp. The Odyssey. That's the arp Odyssey, I think. That's the arp. It's a little stranger sounding. It has a longer sustain. The note ends at last. It sounds more. It sounds more science fiction. It sounds more science fiction, and then here's two minutes and 26 seconds. I love how deeply nerding this is. Here it is again. This is the arp B1. It's also two notes for three. Notice how the notes are shorter. That's a Rhodes. Yeah. But they're similar. Similar range. On the half of Transpression back, because her Rhodes always sounded so dope. Yeah. Awesome. This is so much fun. Thank you. Okay. Let's go. No, and by the way, it helps to know the song that you're playing to know if it's sampled it. Now, obviously, there's something that sounds like heavily phased in the mix. So I don't hear the Nautilus, but maybe it's that phased part? Well, you're right. There is no Nautilus in comments. I want you. Oh, thank God. I try to trick you. It's impossible. It's impossible. At least I was honest to say I don't hear it. But there is another Bob James sample from the same record. Oh, okay. That's what you're hearing here. It is. This is from Feel Like Making Love, which by the way, we did our Roberta Flack episode. That was one of her hits. This is a Roberta Flack song. Bob James recorded it and the intent was to let Roberta Flack come out with her version first and have it be a hit. But things that the record label got messed up. So his version came out first and pissed her off. Oh, I believe. So this was actually the hit from the album one, which Nautilus was kind of like the last song on the second side, kind of a filler track. There you go. I feel like I'd know some songs that have sampled that, too. All right, Diolar at all for your final Nautilus or not. I bring you the following composition. Are you ready? I'll never be more ready. Here we go. I heard it. Oh, what song is this? What's the call? Is that Nautilus or no? Oh, absolutely. That's Nautilus. You're absolutely right. That's Nautilus as sampled by Bob James himself or his 2018 composition, which is called Submarine, in which he went back and sampled himself from a super cool 40 years earlier. Can I play one for you? Please. One of my favorite samples of Nautilus, play Clap Your Hands Now by a Tribe Called Quest. Because until you know that you're so familiar with Nautilus, I think the listeners will really enjoy as I did going back and realizing, "Oh, that's Nautilus, too." It's really in the background there, it's in the background a little bit, it's the beginning of Nautilus. I'll play you where it comes from. That's 005 seconds. Oh, yeah. This is a very beginning. And we won't play it on the show, but if you ever want to hear something that also samples another part of the song that very few people sample, actually, check out Sincereity, The Remix by Mary J. Blige featuring Nautilus and DMX. That's another part of Nautilus. It doesn't get us sampled as much. There's so much more to go. Maybe we'll do a part two of this deep dive on our Patreon. I would love that. But we have all the time in the world on the Patreon to go double down on Bob James. Nautilus alone will take us an hour to get there. I think so. When we first started talking about this show and doing one song, we long, long ago, long before song DNA thought, "What if we did one sample, like one song called one sample?" And I feel like we have inadvertently done that. I love that. I feel like this is going to be a temp up for another bunch of episodes where we just really go down the rabbit hole like this. We love it. The rabbit hole will have nowhere to live, you will be in their holes. That sounds awful. You know what? I don't think that that is what you meant to say. I don't think I have a job to do more. Like you did say it. All right, Deala, what do you think the legacy of this is how you do it by a Montel Jordan is? Well, first off, I hope it puts all his children and grandchildren through college and far beyond. Yeah, I just think that, like, look, every now and then there comes a song that's infectious. It's a lot of fun to dance to and it makes DJ's life a little easier. All the chasing promoters down to get paid weeks after you've done the gig. Like a DJ's life is not that easy. And I always tell people, "Oh, I want a DJ." I'm like, "Hey, stick to engineering, kid. Don't come anywhere near the odds of the humanities." But I think that this song is just, it's fun. It reminds me of the 90s and that wonderful time at R&B. We didn't get to talk about this song in the context of so many other great R&B songs for the period. R&B in the 90s was at a very special place and I'd love to tackle it in a future episode. I think this is how we do it is the party anthem of that period in so many ways. What about you? What do you think of the legacy? I think a couple of things. One is that on this show, we try to tackle a pretty wide swath of songs that are canonical for different reasons. Across genres. Across genres. That's right. I would say that for every halter, sculpture, and for every massive attack, like this song, if you're ever in a situation where you need to DJ a wedding, where you need to get a party started, it's important to have in the back, if you're mind, a list of songs that will slay no matter where in the world you go, no matter what time of day it is, no matter the circumstances, this will always destroy a dance floor. Keep that in mind. It's important. It may happen to you. You may get the ox cable at an awkward time in life. You will not fail if you put this on. But I will also say you might find yourself at a wedding as a one-song listener, and I always say our shows are literally just giving you all that you ever need to really like rock the party with your fun music facts. You can walk up to, you know, maybe it's one of the bridesmaids or one of the groomsmen. And you can say, "Hey, DJ's playing, this is how we do it by Montel Jordan. You want to know about the obscure jazz track that inspired this song?" Did you know? You might look out that night, so we're just here to facilitate that. That's the only reason we're here. The ways in which it was transformed from Bob James, seven notes on the bass to nine notes on the piano with an interpolation or is it an evocation combination? You will make many friends. You will not go home alone. You will not walk alone. But we really do want you to hear songs that you've never heard of before. And I think there's a classic example of that. Well, listen, as always, you can find us on Instagram and TikTok. You can find me on Instagram @Diolo, that's just D-I-A-L-L-O, or on TikTok @DioloRittles. Sometimes I post even on TikTok. And you can find me on Instagram and L-U-X-X, you are Y and on TikTok @LuxuryXX. You can follow our podcast on Instagram and TikTok @WinSongPodcast, listen, you can also watch full episodes of OneSong. On YouTube and Spotify, just search for OneSongPodcast. love it if you like and subscribe. And if you're looking for even more music conversation discussion facts, all of the above go to our new Patreon, Diallo and Luxury Discuss Music or does it talk about music? I think it's Diallo and Luxury talk about music. Yeah, song music, you know you want to do it, sign up. But all you need to know it deep over there too. That's right and all you need to know is the URL which is patreon.com/ournames, Diallo Luxury. Also be sure to check out the one song Spotify playlist for all the songs we discuss in our episodes. You can find the link in our episode description. And if you've made it this far you're officially part of the one song nation, show us some love, give us five stars, leave a review and send the episode to a fellow music nerd. It really helps keep the show going. Luxury, help me in this thing. I producer DJ songwriter musicologist and every Friday night from 10 p.m. Till midnight KCRW DJ Luxury. And I'm actor, writer, director and sometimes DJ Diallo Riddle. And this is one song we will see you next time. This episode is produced by Casey Simonson, an engineering by Kevin Carrignan and Chris Thomas. Mixed by Eric Kicks. Meet new groupie setting mist from Mabelie, New York. Gel to mist technology locks in your look for up to 24 hours with flexible all day comfy grip. Just plump, dewy, hydrated skin that still feels like your skin. Try new groupie setting mist from Mabelie, New York.