Money in the Bank 2011 With Guest PJ Black AKA Justin Gabriel

Hello everyone and welcome to chillin with the villain the classic wrestling review podcast today We look at money in the bank 2011 oh you know the one that's right the show where CM Punk beforehand and cut the pipe bomb and he's gonna capture the WWE championship and take it away from WWE Well, there's been a lot of talk recently about CM Punk so we decided to take it back to his crowning moment money in the bank 2011 many people Suggest that this is one of the greatest WWE pay-per-views of all time But Sam and myself will be the judge of that and you're gonna find out our thoughts on this show today on the episode before I go any further I best introduce myself the villain part of chillin with the villain That's me I am the villain Marty Skell and joining me today as always a very good friend of mine Mr Sam you'll Scott and if you keep listening to the show for the first time ever we have a very Exciting and exclusive interview with PJ black for me known as Justin Gabriel So that's very very exciting and I hope we hope that you listen to The show to get to that interview because PJ just a Gabriel he drops some bombshells So Samuel Yes, how are you? I'm fine. I'm fine. I'm very good. This is the latest Almost recent pay-per-view I thought I'd never thought we'd get into the 2010s given you being a old-fashioned stuck in the mud Is this is covering a 2011 pay-per-view your equivalent of staying up at midnight? Oh, it's far too late, but what's in a blue moon? It's okay. Well So we're doing a public service here. It's not about what well I like it's not about what you like us what the people want and If the people want more recent shows, then that's okay with me and you know what's funny It's I've seen the mean before where someone says oh 30 years ago and your brain goes to like the 1970s, but then is it no actually 30 years ago the 90s? You know what I mean so like 2011 I mean we're still talking 12 years ago so and I feel like in the year 2022 2002 in the year 2002 I considered the year 1990 to be Classic or right time ago, right? So 2011 was you know like I said it definitely would Classify as a classic wrestling review and we don't we don't discriminate on the show We will do a show from two weeks ago if we want we can call that classic. I mean, it's not new is it? So we we do what the people want the people want to hear about money in the bank 2011 They want to hear about CM Punk. So of course we obliged This era I don't think we either of us were really like fully engaged in WWE at the time, right? It's even a bit of a mystery era for you. You just just me right. I this whole era era I don't really remember watching wrestling at the time. There was definitely a few years at least a few years where I just didn't watch any WWE at all. I do remember so before this CM Punk had actually won one of the world titles beforehand. I think he won Smackdown one or maybe he won a money in the bank and won the title for a short period I remember being on tour in the UK and we're in the car. We're in the car with Brian Danielson Daniel Bryan And I'm looking on my phone and Maybe it was before internet on the phone. It might have been a text message, but I was I said to the car said oh CM Punk's just won the world championship And Daniel Bryan Bryan Danielson goes Huh There's a video of me on YouTube beating him with a a domino stretch That's what's because it was so out the blue that punk had won the world championship and it's like This is before They kind of Not gonna say gave the championship to everyone, but CM Punk look you can even when he was on the indies You could even really imagine him being in the WWE so then him to go to win the world championship It was like Brian Danielson was still at the time just doing you know tours UK with me So I thought that was pretty funny, but yeah that whole period I just didn't really Didn't really watch so it's new to me and you know the interesting thing as well about doing these newer shows is There is quite a handful of the guys on the on this show that I have previously worked with or at least know So it's kind of you know obviously I'm gonna be careful what I say every match was amazing It was the best baby view of all time Just saying that right yeah Not none of them are gonna listen so it's fine Well maybe one of them will listen maybe they will but like I said in the introduction Please keep listening because we do have our interview with Justin Gabriel P.J. Black coming up shortly But before we get there Sam It's been a big big week in the WWE land It has of course And Jack's he stole my life I knew you were gonna do it. I knew you were gonna do it because I could tell by your face I knew Naya Jacks has returned to WWE. You know honestly Um, I feel like Naya Jacks gets a lot of undeserved Hates online I Do like well first of all she returned to absolutely no fan for apart from from me. I feel like if you watch Which I felt like was a shame Um, but yeah, I mean, I don't really understand the hate that she gets is it but so she's known as an unsafe worker Is that right is that the crux of it all or That's what the that's what the internet has decided I assume like I think there's been a few times maybe more I don't know. I don't really follow it where someone's got her in a match with her But I think people forget this happens all the time in the time and most likely Their favorite wrestler has probably hurt a whole bunch of people by accident obviously and I'm assuming she's never Intentionally hurt anyone right. I just think that there a lot of times like the people online They'll kind of choose who to kind of Attack for that and who who is safe if that makes sense but for whatever reason Naya Jacks Been a heel the most of her run. She's probably Said something before online with the people didn't like so Then it's like you're an unsafe worker. I don't know if that's true. I would assume If you ask the majority of the people she works with I don't think they would say she was an unsafe worker Again, I could be wrong. I think if she was like legitimately an unsafe worker She probably wouldn't be hired if that was the case It's also kind of in a unique position when she first came to the scene right because it's like okay Your greeners grass, but we're gonna throw you out there as like a formidable force So you know, like it's kind of the odds are stacked against her in that way Um, but yeah, well, I think she's awesome. I don't really have too much of opinion either way. I think she's Good at what she does What people need to remember is okay? Maybe she's not having the five star matches that you enjoy But you gotta remember there's a whole bigger audience that watches the WWE and I think if the kids watching that And they you know they're watching their favorite woman's wrestler and now she's gonna take on this monster naya jacks To them that's very Impressionable and that probably leaves it massive or even okay, even if their favorite wrestler is Reariply who is big and jacked But now oh she's at risk because this big monster naya jacks is a tacto like that's You're gonna it something in this younger audience. I think that aren't just watching it to Review the work rate if that makes sense. So agree Um, you know, I we'd be kind of joking about oh big news, but uh, no, I I'm definitely not a naya jacks hater and I like I said I think if she generally was an unsafe worker I don't think the WWE would have her employed so I think it's a little unfair personally. I agree. Yeah I mean the course about the real big news as I could say should we You mean we're supposed to be actual news? So I this This purchase of the WWE from endeavour to Own the UFC This news came about quite a while ago now, but I guess this week it's become official and the big thing for raw was This week was oh, it's gonna be the last raw that was you know fully owned The McMahon family and the reports is what endeavour bought the WWE now for what was it 9.3 billion dollars Which is crazy when you think about it because Vince McMahon Well Vince van jr. Vincent Kenny McMahon bought the WWE F for Yeah, it was the WWE F from his father Vince McMahon senior for one million dollars back in what the only 80s So he he made a bit of a profit on that. - I think he did. - I think he did. Two things about this that benefit me very well. It was very kind of them to call it TKO after my favorite moon. Do you think it, I second thing about Mark Merrow? Oh yeah, it's very kind to him as well. And the second thing is it was very nice to Vince in his swan song to give me Nia Jacks back. So this week I'm really happy. Two great bits of news. So we did, I put out on the Villain Point Instagram. I asked people the same questions in this week and we do a lot of them are about. Yeah, we had a whole we had so many questions and honestly we really have time to pick a few. So I do appreciate everyone's questions and I don't answer them this week maybe maybe next week. But or I just answered them on the Instagram. But we did get a couple of questions regarding this purchase of the WWE from Endeavour and becoming the stock TKO over the UFC. Sam, can you pull those questions up for me? Yeah, for sure. So oh, HMS 62, I just got it on her Majesty Secret Service. We have a James Bond fan. Thoughts on how TKO will influence the future of WWE and J Romero 23, very similar questions that we'll put them together. Do you guys think with the merger of WWE and UFC, we will see more TV 14 style stuff? So, thoughts on how TKO will influence the future of the WWE? That I really don't know. I will say this when Endeavour purchased UFC, it wasn't like an instant thing where they changed stuff with the company overnight. It was kind of like a gradual thing. I think when Endeavour took UFC, I might be wrong but I think they like, I want to say UFC had some legends on the contract so they're still getting paid that weren't really doing anything which I think Endeavour ended up cutting. Maybe that could happen with WWE. I don't know. Honestly, it's too hard to say. I would say this. I, and this kind of goes for the next question. Do you think we'll see more TV 14 stuff? No. I honestly think it's just going to be business as usual for the WWE. Honestly, I don't see a massive. Maybe there'll be some cuts in terms of maybe in the office because I don't know if they're going to need two sets of legal teams or two sets of travel teams for example. But they might. They might do. And even if they did, I feel like, for example, WWE's travel team has probably got way more experience than everything else that UFC wants us because WWE are doing stuff all week, every week, ever. But like, you know, UFC, as far as we know, don't have writers and stuff so I don't see the WWE staff being replaced with that. Obviously, they don't have wrestlers so I don't see any wrestlers getting replaced or when, when big things like this do happen with the WWE, they do tend to use it as a reason to do budget cuts. So that could happen. I think if anything, like I said, for WWE, I think their mindset is just business as usual. I think if anything, we may get some, well, we're most likely will some kind of UFC slash WWE crossover. Maybe a fighter that's done in UFC, they'll train him up, give him a wrestling match. Maybe we'll see more WWE Superstars ringside for the UFC. That sort of stuff maybe commentators kind of going back and forth maybe. But I think for the most part, I don't see it being a massive difference, but I could be completely wrong. But I think Vincent Mann still has 16% of WWE. I think they still announced him as the chairman maybe of the board. I'm not sure. I'm not really good with all the terminology. Me personally, I don't, you know, endeavor board it because they wanted it for what it was. They paid all that money. So I don't necessarily see them signed to know a whole bunch of changes after they just perched it for 9.3 billion. What do you think? No, I pretty much agree with you. On the, will we see more TV 14 style stuff? I really don't think so because if you have the PG market and the slightly older TV 14 or mature market together, right, then you've captured everything. Why would you have feel a need to kind of bring one into the other or vice versa? I feel like having the entire pie is a good move. And I think, and I feel like when they took on UFC, it was largely business as usual back then. So I don't see anything changing for WWE either. I do totally agree with you though that it might make crossovers simpler or easier or you might see more of them, but at the same time, I feel like it will be less effective because everyone's just going to know when Ronda Rousey came over to WWE, it's like, oh, wow, like literally a transition where it's now it's just almost like a a department from another, you know, from the same company. It's just like, hey, can you just go over to that department? It's going to have less magic. Yeah, I, I really, yeah, I guess so. You know what, you raise a good point about sort of having every single demographic. If anything, do I see them getting more TV 14? If anything, I think WWE would go the other way more PG because like, it's possible. Yeah. We have UFC for the adults that get the younger audience with the WWE. That could be a possibility. Do you think we'll see less Shane McMahon doing his UFC Star Moves Undertaker with his UFC gloves and Brock Lesnar? Do you reckon they're going to try and move away from that aspect to try and keep them more polarized or not? I don't think you'll have any influence like that at all. I don't because no, I don't think if there's any wrestlers that do that on the show, I don't think in Denver are going to be telling WWE don't let them do that. No, I mean, we have Matt Riddle on WWE. Yes, of course. We have Shayna Bezos, some, you know, people that have a lot of MMA experience from that background. I don't see them changing whatsoever because of this. If anything, they again, they might want someone that has like a UFC style or what-knock. Now they can I guess reference it and everything else. Honestly, I wish we had a more exciting answer. Like, yes, they're going to do, they're going to redo the invasion, but UFC in the WWE. Oh man, we see kids technically do like honestly. Oh man, that's not a terrible idea. Imagine that if they just said, right, three months, six months, whatever it is, let's just train up all this UFC fighters and do a UFC invasion of the WWE. It would probably do amazing, amazing numbers. That being said, I think ultimately, I think whatever one wants to see is Conor McGregor in WWE and I for one, I think that would be amazing and I think that would be record business. I actually feel like each separate camp or fan. I mean, there's people who like wrestling who don't like UFC and people who like UFC and don't like wrestling. Of course. I think they will be happy with businesses usual, you know. You've got your thing, we've got hours, let's just keep it how it is. I think I would be happy with that as well. Yeah. Like having said that, your idea for an invasion would just be awesome. Well, I don't see UFC getting more progressing, like more progressing style. I think if anything, maybe they might incorporate some of WWE's production values, maybe bigger stage, maybe bigger entrances, that kind of stuff, the way they did the TV possibly. Yeah. So did you see the video package that they put out after this merger where they tried to make the UFC look as spectacular as WWE and like cutting the clips together. And so I feel like they might actually, yeah, yeah, so it's actually kind of interesting to watch. I'll send that to you afterwards. It's kind of, they, you know, it's like a highlight reel for each brand, but they were cut together. So it's like what it's not just all WWE then all UFC was merged together. Cut, cut, cut, cut, cut, cut, cut, to try and blur the lines. And I do feel like the UFC could do with that kind of spectacle, be kind of interesting. Well, I've always thought UFC did better hype videos than WWE. I thought that their videos have been like the, I, I cannot watch UFC for the longest time, put on the show. They do one of their video packages and like, I want to see this fight. I think they do a really good job. I do have quite a few friends in the WWE production team, but be interesting to speak to them and be like, yeah, have you been given any UFC assignments, but I really don't think it's that type of merger, if that makes sense. I think it's going to be kept separately. Business is usual. It's nice for us to fantasize and everything else, but I still don't really know why do you think Vince wanted to sell the company anyway? So he's got two choices, selling the company and enjoying the fruits of his labor as he's now, however old he is. He's probably the world's oldest man. We'll have to call Guinness book. But or he could just continue what he's doing keep it in the fat while it's, I know it's still a publicly traded company, but maybe he feels like it just requires more corporate insight to, for him to feel comfortable moving it on. That's what I would imagine. What about you? Yeah, I really don't. I really don't know. - We don't know. - 'Cause like you said, enjoy the fruits in his labor, but I don't think Vince can. - He's not retiring kind of, but his feet up. - I think he's, he's enjoying himself is working. And I'm sure he's gonna continue working until his last days on Earth. I'm sure. - I reckon. - And I don't know. Maybe it was one of those things where he just wanted to show that he was super successful in business. He'd be like, "Well look, I saw the company for 9.3 billion." Like, I don't know. I've never met him. I don't know him, so I can't answer. But it is interesting. And I think, like I said, the internet was making it out to be like, "Oh, the end of an hour and all this kind of stuff." I don't really think they looked at it that way. I think it's just kind of, it is what it is, do you know what I mean? - Yeah, yeah. And so many companies have a merger where you wouldn't even as the end consumer wouldn't even know. So like, I think Dr. Pepper and Curric had a merger. When you drink your Dr. Pepper, you don't feel the effects of that. - Right. - Yeah. - Because this is one that's in your face, 'cause it's something that you watch. People, I guess, feel more worried that, oh, it's gonna be this one thing that I watch, and this other thing that I watch, they're just gonna affect this. I really, I don't think most mergers even behave like that. I do think it will just be business as usual. I also hope it will be business as usual. - I do, I do. So I think we also, you picked a couple of the best questions, right? From the Instagram? - Yes. - Sensational L.J. asks you, what was both the hardest and easiest part about booking Ring of Honor while also being an active wrestler? Which I thought was a great question. - Hmm. So I think what was the hardest and easiest part? So because there was an active wrestler. So yeah, the easiest, it's actually a really easy question to answer. The easiest part was that I wrestled with all the guys and I knew everyone's strengths and everyone's weaknesses and I knew that from a worker's perspective. So I knew, okay, this guy's gonna give me a really good opening match or this guy's gonna work really well with this guy or I know what this guy's like. He likes doing these style of matches. I'm gonna put him in that. So having knowing the talent really well, I think that helped out a lot and plus as well. Me finding talent was pretty easy because I could, you know, it was work for Ring of Honor. I'd still do international tours and do independence and whatnot. So I can go to other places and work with other wrestlers. It's like I would work with them, see how they are in the ring, but also see where their head was at, what their attitude is like, how easy are they to work with and everything else. So all that stuff, I think made it, that was like the easy part, do you know what I mean? That's where being an active wrestler was a strength absolutely I think. And I think, you know, there's a difference as well for the wrestlers knowing like, oh there's Marty, someone that we will know we've worked with, one of the boys as they call it. Maybe as much more approachable than just a guy in a suit or an office guy if that makes sense as well. So there was definitely some strengths. I guess the hardest part was obviously producing and running shows that I'm wrestling on. So typically if you look at the time I was booking at Ring of Honor, typically with wrestle in the, I would try always to put myself in the opening match, which I couldn't always do because obviously it depended on loads of contribute factors and, you know, mainly storyline and everything else. But yeah, that was obviously a really hard part. And for me, but honestly, I was in my head, I'm thinking while I wrestle for however long I can wrestle for, and then I can just transition fully into booking, you know, and hopefully I will get just to do that one day. 'Cause wrestling on the shows and running them is quite difficult. So obviously I had to delegate a lot of stuff while I was sort of myself out. And those days were busy as hell because you're traveling in. All the wrestlers want to talk to you. Like I've got a meet and greet, you're writing to show you doing it all, you've got a wrestler, you've got to eager, what a plan you own match, all this stuff. It was pretty intense, but I loved it, you know, and obviously, you know, the list is to the show, no, I'm obsessed with wrestling. So that for me was just, you know, a bloody good time. But no, you know, good question. Thank you, sensation, sensational LJ. - You know what, I feel like that you being an active wrestler and the booker at the same time is what gives you so much sympathy or Jeff Jarrett in the previous episode. When you were talking about him, I felt like there was something about you in there, you know? - Yeah, quite possibly, quite possibly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's another thing as well as a wrestler. I guess this was probably how they wanted me to answer is you're the booker, you can't really push yourself without getting criticism, even though arguably in Ring of Honor, I was the one off if not the top star. So that will see makes things a little bit difficult. But years and years and years in the territories, it was always the wrestlers that were bookers, you know? Most famously Dusty Rhodes and Ric Flair was a booker at one point and all these different territories where sort of the top wrestler was the booker. It's not like a new thing. Now in wrestling, it doesn't really happen, but it did happen a lot back in the territory days. - The Mrs. Kate Ray asks, are we going to do a Patreon? And is there any chance of us doing a Marty's classic matches episode of the party? - Oh, well, you know what? - Mrs. Kate Ray. - Oh, I know Mrs. Kate Ray, yes. - Yes, she's loved our Steve Blackman rule. - She's frequent on the Instagrams and shout out to Kate Ray. - Thank you. - Do you know what a classic Marty's or Marty's classic matches episode would actually be a great idea? Would just be trying to track down all the footage. I guess there's honor club, the Ring of Honor staff. I see we could find Needs Japan staff, PWG, not so sure, but that would actually be a pretty cool episode. I just don't know if I want to subject you Sam to an hour or two of my wrestling matches. You get enough of me every week. If this, what the people want, let us know then we'll definitely do it. That is a good idea because we're a classic wrestling review podcast and we've taken the format where we take one show, but we could do anything like that. We could do a selection of matches without a few fans before suggests career retrospective episodes which we've been looking into. So I'm open to it. Maybe we'll do that. Maybe when there's a special occasion, we'll make it about me, maybe when it's my birthday or something. And in terms of are you going to do a Patreon? That's definitely something that we've been looking into and interested in doing. I would really like to do it. We're still kind of getting our feet wet with the podcast and kind of getting the word out there that we have a podcast. So if you're a listener of the show and you enjoy it, please tell your friends about it. We'd really, really appreciate it. Give us a five-star review. All that jazz that would just help out greatly. But there's so much more content that I would like to make. I mean, the podcast episodes typically end up being over two hours and we've both got so much more to say, but obviously we're just condensing it. So it's easy for everyone to digest it. But no, I'd love to make, I would love to make a Patreon and I've already got loads of ideas of how we can make it really fun, really special. Yeah, and how people could really get like amazing value for money. So I mean, we've even been thinking about recently, we just talked to you before we jumped on this about Sam's a big video gamer. And I think a lot of our listeners are big into video games. I'm kind of a semi-gamer, but we've been thinking about doing the whole Twitch deal and streaming video games. I love no mercy, I love Tekken. I think it could be really fun. So if you're interested in that, let us know as well. Maybe you could, if you, if you listening to this, maybe you could send us some advice on how to do it 'cause we need to work all that stuff out as well, just like we did his podcast. But yeah, a Patreon, I would definitely predict in the near future that would be something that we would dabble in. - So great questions this week, Marty. If you want to shout on the show, the best way to do it is to hit us with a great question from our Instagram, follow us, send us a question on there. And if it's a dazzler, we'll be sure to read it out. So thank you, keep them coming. But for now, should we just crack on with the show? - Yes, Sam, let's do it. So the date is July 17th, 2011, we're at the Allstate Arena in Chicago. The attendance 14,815, and the buy rate, Sam, what do you think? 2011 money in the bank. - Oh, I feel like people want this. I'm gonna say 250,000. - You giving it a little bit too much credit, it got 195,000 buys, so. - Okay. - But that, I think, for the time, was actually pretty good. I think it was more than the years previous money in the bank and more than the one that would come after it. So yeah, I mean, you gotta remember, all the other shows, not all the shows, but a lot of the shows we've been doing have been from the Patrick era, peak years. So I think 195,000 was pretty. - About right. - Not about right, or a good pay-be-view for like a B pay-be-view, not one of the big ones. So of course we're in Chicago. So the story here is CM Punk. So I don't want to get into the whole thing, but basically CM Punk's contract was about to expire. CM Punk didn't want to sign with the company and they'd end up turning the whole thing into a big storyline. I'm sure everyone listening remembers the pipe bomb deal where he sat down on the ramp and he basically shooted for lack of a better term on the company, said that he wished that or he said, what was it that the company might be better after Vince Brown was dead. He said about how John Cena was a stud and an ask his son and how Vince surrounds himself with yes men. He said he's going to win the world championship and take it to another company, maybe ring of honor, get to shout out or new Japan. He says hello, Copcabana, while he looks at the camera and says that he's breaking the fourth wall because he's looked at the camera. And in all honesty, this shows obviously not about the pipe bomb, but that was CM Punk's crowning moment I think or the moment that sort of turned him into the legend he became was that pipe bomb. And I think that got a lot of the old casual fans, these fans that were doing podcasts for the ones that used to watch wrestling, I think a lot of fans heard about that punk pipe bomb and that she got them back into wrestling, or at least interested in it. Yeah, because at this point, it never, nothing like this had really been done on a WWE show. Yeah, so I don't think really either of us were watching at the time, but I remember vividly watching the pipe bomb on YouTube over and over again, even if I wasn't watching the show itself, you know. Yeah, I remember watching it and my mind being blown at the time. Wow, it was crazy for them to be referencing. This is a much different WWE than the WWE is today. So then referencing Ring of Honor in New Japan and him saying, "Calk of Banner's name." It was all, it was, it was really good TV and of course, the question was like, was it a shoot? I mean, it kind of was, but obviously he was approved to do it, but people didn't know, people did not know. So basically the opening video package of the show is covering that pipe bomb and it's all focused on this punk John Cena and Vince McMahon storyline. And you know, the whole deal is punk may leave with the WWE title and he won't have a contract. Vince also, I forgot this part, Vince told John Cena that if he loses, he will be fired. So it's going into this paper view, a good way to sell the paper view, this idea of punk winning the championship and not being under contract to the company. It did get a lot of people intrigued and of course, it's like the perfect storm that in Chicago. Right. We don't know if this means this, but Chicago made punk, CM Punk. CM Punk's basically, he's all gear is Chicago. He is like Mr. Chicago. So this was just sort of the perfect setting for this whole show to happen. One thing I did find interesting in this video package is Vince McMahon sort of says something along the lines of like, I can't have him walk into another wrestling organization with the WWE belt. And I just thought that was so funny because I thought, I mean, there's no WCW at the time. There's no AEW. There's no real competition at all. Like who's he thinking is going to turn up to? Do you know what I'm just saying? Like Vince, there's no way Vince could even name a different wrestling organization. An active one at this point. So I thought that was pretty funny. So we get into it. The opening eight man Smackdown money in the bank match. Of course, this is the time during the brand splits. There's two money in the banks, but not a man and female, rather a raw and Smackdown. So the opening match they start off with a bang as Daniel Bryan takes on Kane, Sin Cara, Wade Barrett, Cody Rhodes, Heath Slater, Justin Gabriel and Shamus or Sam. There's no point of you and I giving up perspectives on this match where Justin Gabriel, PJ Black, he's a good friend of mine. So why don't we take it over to him? Just take you to our interview with Justin Gabriel as he gives his thoughts on his match at Money in the Bank 2011. So here we are joined today by PJ Black, formally known as Justin Gabriel. He's here today to talk about the Money in the Bank 2011 from Chicago. But before we get into that, hello PJ, how you doing? I'm doing good guys. Thanks for having me. That was a good one. I'm trying to remember that match. I did wonder that. I thought I'll ask PJ what he thought of the match and I was like, "Would he even remember this match?" But we've watched it, so we're going to be able to prop prime you with good questions. Everything else. Everything else. I guess my first question. So this sort of money in the bank match, I mean they used to do it at WrestleMania, then they turned it into a whole pay-per-view. I feel like knowing you and obviously watching your rest of you a bunch of times, this sort of map seems to fit your style. That being said, do you enjoy these types of matches or is this something you kind of dread? Are you like, "Oh, this is a good chance for me to be creative?" Yes, I mean, that's a restless, that's what artists, right? We want to show up, we express ourselves where the stuff we do and this is a perfect match where we can come up with all kinds of crazy stuff that you can't come up with in a normal match. I love matches like this, obviously, I used to not so much it in all the other. It was tough in that controlled environment. You know what it's like a TV, right? As you're limited or things you can do, you can pitch all these things and they might go with some of them. I remember pitching hundreds of different spots and we ended up going with one or two and it has to make sense, right? You got to, how many guys are in there? I'm going to get guys. Eight guys, yeah. Eight guys and they all have spots so we got to try and make it all work so it's a very unique concept and it was a fun time. Well because there's a lot of big hitters in this match. It canes in the match, shame, earthquake, barrette, your boy heaths in the match, Daniel Bryan, a whole bunch of guys. This is a question I was going to ask. He said about it being like a controlled environment. This might be a bit too inside baseball but can you remember about how, like, how we did WDB, how did they make you put a match together like this and they make you do rehearsals during the week or is it a case of on the day or there? Yeah, back in the day we were so busy, we didn't have time for rehearsals, right? Sometimes we might have time for rehearsals but stuff like that so it was just on the day. Yeah, not really. It was a pretty easy one too if you look at it. It looks like it's so complicated but it was really easy. Well I think it's one of those things, like there's eight guys, it's kind of like if you all do kind of two big spots then that's a lot of stuff in the match. I mean there's eight of you so the 16. I do remember actually this one coming together much quicker than any other match that I've ever been a part of. You know, like you know, like you know, sometimes it can drag out just that they all day. Like everyone at bounce ideas and they're like okay we're going to use that one, we're going to use that one, not use that one. Let's stick it all together and I think we were done. I think I was in catering but before one o'clock that day. Well, it's funny because it's a pretty, I don't know if you remember but it's a pretty long match as well. It's like nearly half an hour long I want to say. Yeah, it's not long. Yeah, oh no, 25 minutes. Yeah. Eight inches. Yeah, that's true. That's true. And at this point, you'd been in, this is 2011 so you'd been in the WWE for how long? Three years. Three years and a main roster. Two years on the main roster. Because this was after Nexus, right? Right after Nexus. And like, here's the question, so you got thrown in the Nexus angle. Did they really give you much sort of direction in terms of like your character and your gimmick or did they just kind of leave it to yourself? After Nexus? Yeah, or even just coming into Nexus because that was your day being on the main roster, right? Yeah, so we did an XT season one, remember? And then we kind of went home after that and we're like okay, what's going to happen? And we all got called to TV in Miami that week, not knowing what to expect. And we all got called into VINCES office and then we laid out the Nexus thing and we all kind of looked at each other, we're like okay, wrestling, what's all this new and what's new as old, or everything is just recycled. So you can usually go back to a storyline or a hero or something similar and kind of get notes and ideas from that and work of that. But there was nothing to look back at this except like NWO stuff, but we're like we're rookie, so we're not really like NWO or like a faction like DX. So we all kind of like we didn't know what to do or what to expect. So we kind of just did whatever we thought and VINCES would give us like little inputs and that's what we came up with. Well, because they kind of threw you in the deep end because not like I guess they kind of presented you guys as rookies, but they were instantly kind of in there with the top guys, right? Like working with that kind of main event scene. Yeah, that was incredible too. Like just working main event loops and matches and like working like three garden matches in the main event. And I was like wow, my first year I was like wow this is great. Well, the anybody's gonna ask about that. the character stuff is because obviously I was watching that money in the bank. You look obviously so different compared to you do now. No bids, no hair. You look very pretty back then. I mean, you do still now, but just very pretty boy. Amazing time. You wear like the little trunks and stuff. I don't know. It's kind of fun for me to watch. You do how many people come up to me and be like, "Oh, shit, I don't know. You're really, you're that guy." Really? That's so funny. So like, I know Sarah, as a question you want to get to you, just like, and obviously I want to talk to you about the 450 of the ladder. But before I get to that, the one thing I actually think my favorite moment of this match, I don't know if you remember it, but you set up a ladder or you're climbing a ladder, but it's not below the briefcase. It's kind of to the side of the ring. So you have the ladder and you start to like hop and jump kind of towards the middle. I thought that was tremendous. Actually, I had a really cool spot because I can hop all kinds of stuff and I can do 360s with a ladder. I was going to do a whole thing like a sequence I guess, but a God K-bushed. I wanted to see more because you started hopping and like the crowd starts reacting and I think someone comes and drop kicks you off. I'm like, "No, that could have been great." I'll still do that. Next one I do all those. Yeah. That one's in anyone. It's all the hopping experience from being the buddy rabbit. So have you had some questions, right? Yeah. So this pay per view was like hot out of the gate. Many times on the show when we review a pay per view, it's really important for me as a viewer to for the first match of the night to be a banger because I just feel like it's kind of set to the tone. Many times we've watched something on the first match of the night has been a dud and then we're just kind of sourd. Even regardless of what happens next. Does that mindset transfer over to you as a performer as well? Did that ever cross your mind? That your actions are going to be the first thing that people see on this night? Yep. And it's a subconscious thing for people who haven't been in the business for that long. But I mean, I run shows too. If you're a promoter, one of the first things you do, you book two main events. One is the main event and one is the opener because it sets the place for the whole day. And the show is where you said that it was a dud. Sometimes it can just be like the match. There was no chemistry or maybe it was something completely wrongly booked or maybe they had to. They had no other choice. But usually you'll see if you go to a WWE live event, they'll start off with a bang every single time. Yeah. I think if you're a wrestler, it's funny because I think the old sort of perspective was, oh, I want to be in the main event. And I feel like this generation is like, I just want to be on first be the first match. Yeah. I mean, it is the most fun. Think about it, bro. Yeah. It's fun. I love being yeah, I love being on first, but we're on first every night of the week. The audience have to be like fresh as well, right? The energetic ready to go. Totally, totally. And they always are. Like, you know, when we do those WWE tours, like around the world, like some places that you're wrestling for so long. So that first match is very crucial, you know. I was telling you guys earlier off of air like Jamaica. I was in Jamaica last week and there was the first time in like 50 years they had matches. So, you know, they've never seen like, like bumping and stuff. So like, the first match goes on and they were hot, they were hot, but until that first bump happened, they exploded. So you're always trying to structure the match slightly different when you're in that first match too. Well, I think it's also worth noting. I don't want to tread on Sam's toes because I think I know he's one of his questions, but not only are you on first because obviously when you're on wrestling shows, you're constantly trying to follow the previous matches, but there's also, I don't know if you remember this PJ, but there's also enough our money in the back match on this show. So have you had a question about that, right? Yeah. So I just think that you're in a unique position on this paper view in that you're the only match that has a direct competitor in that there's another money in the bank ladder match later on, but for Raw. Is there a level of competitiveness there? Even doesn't even have to be like over, but even just like inside yourself being like, oh, I just as long as I'm better than the other match, like, what goes on in your mind with something like that? Massively, massively, even especially back then, I remember, I remember we were all fighting, not fighting, but we were like, how's it going to be so much better than yours? Yeah. So one thing I touched up on, like, just for anyone that hasn't seen this show or hasn't seen it a long time, there's a spot in the match where we try to describe this best, or maybe you can describe a PJ, I'm not sure, but basically you have a ladder, which is flat on top of the top rope kind of laid out horizontally. Yeah. Yeah. And then you stand on the ladder, which is impressive in itself, and then hit the, hit the 450 off the ladder and sort of picture perfect hit it. It looked like it should be a complete disaster to do. And it's funny because I know later in the show, Matt Sidel or Evan Bourne does like a shoot and style for ladder. And I think people, you know, that get, I know that got like replayed and maybe added into like the hype videos and stuff. But to me, I thought like this 450 off the ladder on top of the ropes was like by far the most dangerous spot and just the most impressive that you actually managed to put it off because you stood there and it's, and it's, somebody is not cables either, it's ropes. So you're like bouncing on the spot as it is anyway before you hit the 450. Like, what do you remember about that? I mean, it was actually 100 times more difficult than it looked. No, it looks like it's incredibly difficult. And the hardest part, I mean, it wasn't so much the bouncy, it was getting my feet right. I kind of used the bounce to my advantage. That's why I kind of like went with it. The hardest thing was there was a ladder there and there was something there. So I had a limited space to moving. It was usually with a 450. You can either go up and then come down or if I want to make it impactful, I can kind of just whip my body around and make the splash. But I couldn't do that. So you can see if you look at the replay too, I go really slow and I do it way different and I move at an angle too. It was kind of like doing it in a confined space. I don't know if they say that on commentary or when I got to the back, but I remember someone saying, "Wow, that's like doing a 450 in a phone booth." Yeah, I just don't understand. I felt like even if the ladder was stuck to the ropes, it would still be hard. But the fact that it's just lent on there, I just don't understand how the ladder didn't sweep from underneath you. You know? Yeah. I mean, I also made it dramatic and made it look like I was unstable. I did that on purpose. I think I practiced it one time because Kane wasn't sure he took it right. He wasn't sure. He's like, "Oh, I don't know. Just don't kill me." And I was like, I was like, "Swip out the crash pad. I'll put it there and I kind of just stood on it and I did it in the ring and then he was like, "Okay, cool." And I was like, "Yeah, it should be easy." You know, back then when you're young, you have so much confidence. Well, I thought that's the thing that would make me nervous is, I've never wrestled with Kane before, but you've got Kane there taking it. Like, were you not worried about killing Kane? I'm pretty confident with my abilities. I've been doing that for 50 from different angles. I can hit it anyway in the ring since I was like 14 years old. You know, I started before that. I started practicing it into the swimming pool and I started doing it from the balcony and my dad lived in a three-story house and I started doing it from the roof. 150 foot clips in a while. I had so much control over that. Anything else, not so much with that thing. Right. Yeah. No, I just, it's funny because I feel like the 450 is one of the more underrated moves in wrestling because you see your hand front of guys do it. Like, I feel like the 450 is so difficult to do because I can flip for the top rope onto my feet and I can flip to the top rope or so off the top rope onto my knees, but to get flat really, really struggle with. And like, I've been wrestling, you know, I wrestled you a bunch. Now, I'll be honest with you. So, I've took the 450 from you a bunch of times and you're like a way bigger guy, I think, than people probably give you credit for because mainly because you wrestled in the WWE at the time where everyone was ginormous. So, you know, you're wrestling guys at Kane and Shameless or whatever. But I do remember specifically one time as wrestling you and you give me the 450 but the springboard version. And I'm just laying there and I'm thinking, oh man, this is going to suck. And you're rotating over and I just kind of watch your knee just coming towards me and I'm just laying there praying that it doesn't touch my face and I'm sure enough it just goes, whoop, right past me, you land on me perfect, no problem at all. But every time I'm just like, oh man, this is scary. You see a lot of guys do like, I've never seen you mess up the 450 or hurt anyone with it and you see quite a lot. You see guys like landing knees heavy on the guy or on the legs or whatever else. So like, you definitely have that down big time. Yeah, and so we're two, you know, because a lot of people, everyone does it different and when they do it, it just looks like they like just fall on the guy. Like I try to make it look like a splash where I like, you know, like that impact, which I don't know. Maybe it's that's like there's so little things for me that makes it. Yeah, that's totally that. I do have, I don't know if you remember this because I know I assume W is quite secretive with their finishes and stuff. So Daniel Bryan, Bryan, Danielson, he won this match. Do you guys remember when you found that out? Was it like an avocative to keep it to last minute or? Sure, I don't remember that one. It might have been on the day, but like nobody really cared. We were so tired, like we We just work like funny shows in a row. We just went after that. That's so funny. You do that long ass tour and it's like, oh, we're going to end the tour with one thing and ending, but just like a eight man line of match. Here's another, again, you don't have to answer this. But because I know back in-- I don't know how it is now in WWE, but I know back then, obviously, the PPV payoffs are kind of a big thing for the guys. You're in the match here. It's a big match, but there's eight of you. Can you get a good payoff for this? It's like, it's a difficult-- Yeah, I got a good check for that. That was back then when the video game checks were pretty big too, and the pay-per-views. This was right before they started streaming stuff. I remember when we were in the meeting, and they were like, oh, we're going to go to the streaming thing. And the first thing I could think of was, oh, they goes all the royalties because they make so much money from the DVD sales. I remember getting a check, and I was like, what is this for? This is a massive check. And it was me being in the background of the Chris Jericho DVD. And I opened it in the DVD. I was in the background. I was like, wow, this is great. And a lot of those royalties went away after this streaming stuff. Do you still get any royalties now from them? Or is it just really significant? I mean, it's minuscule. It's the way it's minuscule. It kind of goes the way down, down, down. I think last year, I probably-- that was probably my last one. Gotcha. Yeah, yeah. Taking it back to the 450 splash. It was obviously really cool, but it was also kind of in service of the story, because you were working on Cain all night, which makes sense, because he's like the biggest threat right, literally. So you work on Cain all night. And if you're going to have to take out a big guy like that, he's got to go out and style. So it's service of the story as well as it being really awesome and flashy. But earlier on in the-- and I feel like, like Marty said, everyone's going to remember the 450 splash. But a lot earlier on in the match, you do the spot where you dive out some assault onto Cain who's on the outside. And for me, I like that almost as much as the 450 splash just for its simplicity and its efficacy. Do you have any memories of that spot in the spot? Because I would be more worried about that going wrong than I would the 450 splash. Yeah, I do actually. I get a massive argument with him. I was thinking about that the other day. The best catchers in the business are people that do dive. And he's a big guy, so he doesn't dive. So I was trying to explain to him how to make this hurt less for both of us and make it look cool. And he was like, no, I'm just going to stand far back and then I'll step in when the time is right. I'm like, no, that's not how it works. Hate that when you go to a training school, people say that too. I just stand back here and you step in. I'm like, no, that's not how wrestling works. So I remember I was like, just watch some even born matches or stuff. I said to him and he kind of just looked at me like that. I was like, oh, boy, let's see what happens. So when you're running out, when you're in the ring, you're running out to go over the top rope. You know back to your mind that he's not going to be where you want him to be. Oh, yeah. I was like, I just got to do it. Yep. Pretty much. I didn't, yeah, I didn't want to bring that up. He didn't catch you very good. So yeah, he kind of, if any young wrestlers watch this, you can, you can never step in. Be too close. You can always do that. That's so much easier than stepping in. Like, why? I don't know why that's so hard for me. Did you like working with other than that? Did you, that was actually one of my questions. Did you like working with Kane? I did. I did. Me and Heath were in a attack champs. We actually worked Kane and Big Show on like three different loops. I didn't, we worked them in, you know, in those Europe loops, we do, we see like 25 shows and 25 days and five different countries. We worked with them every night. And it was actually so easy. It's a super fun. I can imagine it being, yeah. I just like, oh, it's just someone I've never come across all the time in wrestling. So I just want like that would be, yeah, because it's different structured matches, because these are legit two giants. It's like, what are we going to do with this guys, right? Like it's like, it's like kicking punch and then just take, take some choke clams and then that's about it. So yeah, yeah, I guess so. I guess you did the big poem. The, so I know you've probably told this story before PJ, but Sam probably has not heard it and you've told me it a couple of times. It's one of my favorite stories. Can you just tell us the story about how you end up leaving WWE? Because it's one of my favorites. Sure. So like, you know, you don't get used on TV. You just sit in catering and it gets really boring. So I think I started booking my flights home early as soon as the show started. So like, fuck it, I'm just going to go home a day early and I started going home a day early and we were in Austin, Texas and there was a skydiving place. So like, oh, cool, I'm going to go fucking do some jumps and I left the building because I was like, I'm not being used. No one's going to even miss me. So I did a couple of dumps and I remember getting back to the arena and you know the goggles was really tight. So I had the goggles print on me and I said, wrong. Look at me like this. He goes, did you just go jump out of the plane? So I went, I went, I booked the flight and on my connecting flight, they call me like, hey, we need you for this Lumberjack match. And I was like, I'll just tell him I quit my, Jesus. Eddie regrets with that too. You cool with it. I mean, I wish I handled it a little bit differently. I wish I thought about it a little bit more and I wish I, you know, they did call me the next week and like, yo, just stay at home a week. Think about this and then, you know, we can, we can negotiate, talk about something. We know you're not happy. Whatever. And I was just like, at that time, I was ready to do some indies, you know, because I've never done the indies in the US. So I was kind of like ready for that adventure. So I was just like, I mean, I had my mind made up. I'm going to, I'm going to step away from my dream job. Right. You had a pretty long run there, don't you, all right? Yeah, yeah, I was like five, six years. It was fun. Oh, I thought it was longer, but that's, yeah, it's still a long time. Yeah, I mean, that's like on TV. There was a little bit, you know, with FCW and development. Plus it took them, it took them like over a year to get my papers to work in the US. Oh, of course. Yeah. Yeah. That is a pain in the ass. I got, when I got to the US, I got back pay for all that because I got paid from the day I signed. I was like, oh, shit. That's just cool. Yeah. Oh, yeah. That's awesome. Oh, wow. That's great. Got down. I guess actually just last question. You know, this is whole thing with, like punk, the pipe bomb at this time, and then he wins the world's title of stuff. Were you tight with punk back in the day or during this period? I don't think anybody's title punk. He's doing it. Yeah, some acquaintances, you know, and he always gives people shit. He's not a bully, but he's always that guy, you know. I remember giving him some good, because before WWE, I was a nutritionist. So I remember giving him some nutritional advice. And then he came back to me and I told him something else and he's like, wow, you were way smarter than you look. So he never kind of like bullied me or cared about. He was never like a dick to me like he was to everyone else. Like he just, he was just like, wow, I can get some info from that guy or whatever. Right, right. That's funny. That's funny. Well, I really appreciate you, your time PJs. Good to see you again. Do you have anything you want to want to plug or if you got coming up, I know you mentioned about potential podcast coming soon, maybe or? Yeah, maybe the podcast. I have a few things. I've been running this arcade, Mania shows. I don't know if you guys have followed that. They look awesome. Yeah, tell us about them. Yeah, so it's just a video game. Here's the machine we use. Yes. That's excellent. Oh, nice. We just love old school games. You know, everyone's into this new games. I'm not a gamer or anything, but I like the classics. So we kind of like just created this brand where it's something different. You know, like we have like wrestlers. It's like an ultimate meet and greet actually. So we have wrestlers in the tournament and then fans can buy in. And then you know, for an extra fee, you can get your own entrance song and like, you know, you're very gimmicky and it's fun. We have a belt made. And I won the first one because I'm actually really good with moral combat. So everyone thought it was rigged. So at the second of end, I let all the fans line up and I just whip them one by one by one. And we just that I lost one in Hollywood a couple of weeks ago, probably a month ago. And we had our first match on it because usually it's just the arcades that we had a match where I wrestled mini like 25 cent. I saw this. What was that? What was that? We were talking about micro wrestling last week on the pod. He's a micro wrestler, right? He's a micro wrestler. I dropped the title to him. It was fun. I haven't ended the video yet, but I'll upload it soon on my IG. It was a fun one. It was a good one. People were nuts, dude. And we had all these movie props where the sugar glass, sugar glass, like whiskey bottles and like guitars and keyboards. It was a fans bring weapons match because it has to match the gimmick of the show, right? So it's eight bit wrestling. Pull it eight bit wrestling. So people brought in like, you know, like a tar hero, they like game controllers for weapons and stuff. It was fun. I'd love to see that. Yeah, please upload the footage. I'd love to check it out. Where can we find you on your socials, PJ? IG, PJ450, PJ Black dot com is a website. I think it might be down right now. I got to put it on IG. But yeah, I'll put your active on IG and then also on Twitter. Twitter is there. We'll 333. Awesome. Well, PJ, so good to see you again. I miss you. I'm glad you're doing well. Glad you're seeing you doing so well. We're looking as scrumptious as ever. I say so myself and mostly as well. Have you not got? You make me jealous. But yeah, it's great to see you and thank you so much for coming in the party. We really appreciate it. Oh, thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you, PJ. So there we have it. That was our exclusive interview with Dr. PJ Black for me known as Justin Gabriel. What a lovely guy, Hey Sam. Yeah, awesome. Really nice guy. I'll find out. first interview he put us at ease who was very gentle with us. He was. He was very kind and yeah that was our first interview on the show. So if you enjoyed that please let us know and we will try to arrange some more interviews and I think it's a cool way to incorporate it into the show because yeah, why have us talk about this match when PJ who was there and did it could talk about it. I will say this the money in the bank Smackdown was won by Daniel Bryan for anyone wondering in 24 minutes and 27 seconds. So moving on we see the WWE chairman and CEO Vince McMahon and John Luronitis I think this was the kind of first sort of tie we started seeing John Luronitis TV as a Vince McMahon stooge and a lawyer arriving to the building they said that they've been negotiating with CM Punk. So it's kind of a cool idea that we're getting closer and closer to the match but they still haven't put ink to paper in terms of securing CM Punk and his services even though he could win the WWE Championship. Next up Kelly Kelly the reigning champion defeats Bribella to retain the Deavers Championship in 4 minutes and 54 seconds. Now first of all what do you think of the name just in general actually the name Deavers to describe the woman's restless. Deavers is not like the term Deavers is not endearing or a way to compliment someone it's like the opposite right. Like someone who's hard to work with. They just called the whole division Deavers. So funny I do want to talk about the championship belt as well but you go into your thoughts first piece Ab. So I haven't really watched much of this era so it was very interesting to actually see a woman's match from like 2011 or that decade the 2010s and as first thing I thought of when we went back to it was 2002 you still have like Trish and Victoria. Nowadays we have what we're lucky enough to have. This was just like this terrible period in between and no matter what you say about even further back right the 90s whether at worst it's misogynist at best it's slightly tacky at least there's something to say about it. I just found this era just kind of bizarre. This was what they call like the Deavers search era where it's weird because in the early 2000s they made some steps forward with the women's division would be like like you said like Trish, Victoria, Mickey James, Jazz, they bought in some really good women's wrestlers then kind of around the mid 2000s they started to kind of take a step back where they just focus more on the Deavers search winners and everything else and of course it wasn't until years later with the women's revolution or evolution when they started to kind of move move forward again but yeah I would say this the better twins actually think arm pretty exceptional exceptional in terms of it as an act maybe not so here they're still new and green but what they went on to sort of do and achieve they became massive stars in WWE and then they kind of transcended WWE and had successful careers outside of it and again like we were saying earlier not everything on this show is going to be for us so but there was so many fans of especially female fans of the bellatowans so they really kind of put their stamp on the wrestling business so I never really want to critique them this match I don't even know if Kenny Kenny was a wrestler I think they hired her as a model then decided to try and teach her how to wrestle that kind of worked with Trish Stratus here maybe not so much one of the first things they do is maybe the worst flying headsses I've ever seen maybe reminding me of the one from the micro match on the T&A show a few weeks ago but it's funny how often you see flying headsses as being bots because I find it to be one of the more simple moves in wrestling but you often see people mess that up the diva's championship belt it's just like a butterfly the whole thing just isn't yeah this point he's kind of like why are they even doing it but my biggest takeout from this match is after the match free bellaloozes and niki bellat is getting on a breath giving her a hard time and she's keep saying look at her referring to Kenny Kenny she doesn't even eat how could she how could you not beat that she doesn't even eat how could you not beat that and literally like an hour later in the show we see the bellas in a anti-bullying campaign ads I thought that was so funny I'm glad you picked up on that yeah I was like wow okay oh man my biggest takeaway was Kelly Kelly's like doing a handstand on the apron and free bell I can't like count as it pushes her away and her knees both her kneecaps just crack on the outside floor and I just thought I wouldn't want to take that spot to her credit she did that massive bump in front of complete silence the crowd just did not get here and this is another naya jack's moment where only I know the crowd are just silent yeah next up is the battle of the super heavyweights as mark Henry defeats the big show in six minutes the what is it the unstoppable force meets the unmovable objects is that right a movable object I don't know yeah unsupportable object I don't know something like that it's the unstoppable force versus the immovable object so big super heavyweight match here this was at this point mark Henry would have been with the company for nearly 15 years or whatever it was 13 years then tried a bunch of stuff with him and it never really worked he never seemed to kind of get further up the cards but here it seems like they're getting something with mark Henry and it's starting to push him and this is just before he started his whole of pain gimmick where he would end up becoming I think a multi-time world champion but this seemed like the start of his sort of main event push as he took on the big show here typically these sort of matches like two super heavyweights resting each other they're the type of matches that fans fact the size about and think oh I'd love to see mark Henry wrestle big show when in reality when you actually do the matches they're when it's two really big guys they can't really do too much to each other like this it's very difficult for them but they get this quick only six minutes long I thought overall it was fine I think the main takeaway from this was after the match so mark Henry beats big show and he gave him quite a couple of world strongest slams he gave him a couple of big splashes and then after the match he continues to attack big show he does the pulmonizer where he puts the chair on big show's leg wraps it and hits the Vader bomb onto the chair and they really make a big deal of this angle and they give it a lot of time they you know they I think they bring a stretcher out and they bring the the avalanche cart out and they really setting it big that they get so serious they take it over to the commentators and they give like a serious talk about the whole thing and they say oh you know we'll hope to give you an update later in the night and that was what I thought was the best part of this because in this day and age I see it resting so often where they'll do some big high spot or some big thing where someone gets hit by a car or whatever it is or they'll get they'll get attacked and put through two tables and it's just like cut to the next thing and it's like they don't let anything sink in and it's like you know if this happened in a boxing fight after the match someone attacks someone it would be a massive deal. This is just yeah right so they make a big deal out of this they sell it big style and I guess the whole point that this whole thing was to get Mark Henry over as a beast and I felt like they did a pretty good job of that. So I do as well it was actually it was the second time this was happened in the night because Shamus Powell bonds Sincara through the ladder and he gets stretched out. Yes but I like last week Vince Mann with the chair shot I like it when they sell something that would be dangerous as oh you shouldn't be doing this get the stretches out and it was unfortunate that when Big Show was getting stretched out the crowd the crowd were just chanting CM Punk because they did. So it's kind of like it was a shame that they weren't really rewarded for doing that sort of thing but what can you do? The actual the actual what was it move like where his ankle is tied up in the chair and he's sped down on it. Famous see people calling it like the pulmonizer or someone's being pulmonized because I see it wasn't the first time but sort of I think the first time they ever did it on WWE [BLANK_AUDIO] Austin put the chair on Brian Pullman's leg and jumped off onto it. I think that's right. So people do we at least a boy's refer it to like as pulmonize like, oh, I want you to pulmonize that, yeah. But when Mark Henry did it, I mean, he didn't not land on it. I wonder how you fake something like that. The way the chair was, I can't remember exactly, but the way it slipped, like it should be fine, and Mark Henry still would have made some space in between himself and you know, he landed more knees heavy and I mean, I'm very positive. Big show probably felt it, but obviously it wouldn't snap his ankle. Yeah, well, they did a good job of making it look devastating and mean nasty. Well, Mark Henry must be able to work a big splash because I think so, because he's like, if he legit, he did two splashes on Big Show, like if he could work that, he would have these massive, he would have killed it. It's 90% of his rep who it's worth. Mark Henry's kind of been boring for the longest time. I think what did you mention this start of this run? Because this was kind of when he started to get interesting, right? Yeah. So I guess Henry had signed a contract extension in 2011 and he'd got like a main event level push out of it. So for like 15 years, you know, he was, they did sexual juggler, they did follows in the nation, they did a whole bunch of stuff and he lost, like most of his matches. And there was a few kind of start, stop pushes for him and it's never really worked. But when he came up with this hall of pain thing, hall of pain, you know, they started making him look credible and I guess they say this in wrestling, people forget this. I agree with this, that it takes like 10 years to kind of get it as a wrestler. And Mark Henry got brought into the WWE, like not even as a wrestler just brought straight onto TV because he was, I think he was in the Olympics and he was a powerlifter and everything else. So they just threw him out there, you know. So he was learning on the job. So, you know, after all those years, it kind of finally clicked through him. And I think he ended up having a really great run. None of it I really saw, but I do remember that people kind of raving about Mark Henry finally. And I think even the SmackDown ratings were going up as with Mark Henry as the champion. So it worked out. They were persistent and it paid off in the end. Do you reckon it would take us 10 years to get it as a podcast? If ever, yes. We see backstage Vince McMahon talking to Johnny Ace. Josh Matthews walks in and asks Vince says he resigned C and punk yet. Vince says no. Vince says that punk is the biggest in-great that he's ever dealt with in his life. Vince claims to have offered punk the most lucrative contract offer he's ever offered anyone. Vince tells the fans not to blame him because he's done everything he could to keep punk on the roster. He said, punk pointed to the door during their meeting and told Vince to get out. Vince says that this is seen as fault because he wanted punk suspended. Vince ended it by saying if punk leaves with the WWE title tonight, may God have mercy on John Cena's soul. So yeah, again, we're just trying to push this whole idea of CM Punk potentially leaving with the championship. It's funny actually because during this show, they kind of mention the whole Montreal school job thing. And the reason why the Montreal school job happened was because Vince didn't want to risk, but at heart being the WWE champion and turning up on WCW TV with it. So we've got another week where the WWE is mentioning the Montreal school job. And obviously last week's episode, we've unforgivered and they were building a storyline around that as well. So the Montreal school job really did have a big influence on the WWE seems for years and years. Blood takes us to our next money in the bank match, the Raw money in the bank match. As Alberto Del Rio defeats Rey Mysterio, Kofi Kingston, Alex Riley, our truth, the Miz, Evan Born and Jack Swagger in 15 minutes and 54 seconds. So nearly 10 minutes less than the last money in the bank match that we got tonight, which PJ kindly covered for us. Sam, in your opinion, did the time trimmed off this money in the bank match didn't make it better or worse than the last one? I mean, the time trim helped, but this was not as good as the SmackDown match, like at all, by far. And I think, I was thinking about this last night. I was like, why isn't it? And I think I've got it. Are you ready for this? So the SmackDown money in the bank, Glad to match, use the match stipulation as a backdrop to showcase the talent. So for example, like Justin Gabriel is using the weapons as an environment and shameless is using the environment as a weapon. Or you've got Kane as the credible threat. So everyone has to kind of take him out first and you've got Wade Barrett as the ring leader, you know, with his leadership skills, that sort of thing. Like the stipulation was like taking second place to the talent, whereas I feel like this one, the talent was taking second place to the stipulation and you just had different size ladders all at the ring at the same time and then the talent like working around that. So for me, this didn't work as well, like at all, which is kind of nuts because the talent on display, you've got Kofi Kingston, right, who can do, but actually, he could probably do it even with a million ladders in the ring, but you've got our truth, you've got Ray Mysterio, who by the way, doesn't get enough credit. Like everyone says what he can do, like in the ring as on the offensive, but he can be thrown around as well as spike doubly and make it work. I just wanted to throw that out there, but yeah, that for me is why the Raw One just did not work as well as the SmackDown one, right you. So don't you find it funny how wrestlers can do amazing athletic things, but the one thing they can't do is climb a ladder fast. They can only climb ladders very slowly, but there's actually a point in this match where someone's climbing the ladder, like up near the briefcase and all of a sudden Jack Swagger runs it and like sprints up the ladder, he sprints up the ladder and it's like, why can't nobody do it? Yeah, right. Why can no one else climb ladders? Like wrestlers climb ladders very slowly. Another thing that wrestlers do in ladder matches, the old cliche of we start off with smaller ladders, realized that they're not tall enough then start getting progressively bigger with the ladders, but I think it was in this match, I think it was this one. Like at the start, people are climbing a ladder that is no way near big enough to reach the briefcase. Like a step ladder. Right, how did they even think like this would be close to it? Like they kind of made themselves look silly trying to climb these small ladders to get the briefcase, which is so high above the ring. So that I always think the trick with a good ladder matches. So the only way to win is to reach the briefcase or the championship or whatever is up there. So what I find in a lot of these more modern ladder matches is that a lot of times the wrestlers concentrate so much on setting up the spots and they take the eye off the prize, which is climbing the ladder and grabbing the thing. And it kind of takes away from the match because the whole match should be about trying to win. And there's points in this match and maybe the previous one where there's a guy in the ring on his own. There's all guys on the floor just like waiting and rather than set the ladder or climb it, he's setting up like his next stunt or something. For me, these matches aren't really for me. I loved the Razer Ramon and Shore Michaels ladder match. I really enjoyed the Rocks ladder match of Triple H from Summ 798. These ones where it's multi-men, I don't really enjoy them because again, they kind of take away from what the point of the match is supposed to be. I think the best if I ever do a ladder match, which I've only done a few of them, for me, the whole match is just climbing the ladder. It's just keep climbing the ladder, pull me down, you climb, I pull you down, that's it. We're just going to fight and obviously do spots in between. But when you are setting up like ladders on the berry, cade from the ring and doing all this stuff when you're putting ladders together and I just think you're taking your eye off the prize and you're taking away from what the match is supposed to be. There's only so much we can kind of suspend our disbelief. In the first match, they put Sincara through a ladder, as you mentioned, and they're like, "Oh, they put in through the steel ladder and it's clearly a ladder made out of wood that they've painted to look like steel because it breaks." You just see all the wood chips popping out of it. I thought that was pretty funny. But no, there's some great talent in this match. Evan Bourne's in there, Matt Sideau, another guy. I know really, really well. In fact, I remember, I do remember this conversation. I remember thinking back, maybe I did watch this show because I remember seeing Pac at the time. I was like, "I just watched my knee in the bank or whatever. I remember me asking me, "Oh, did Matt Sideau do anything in it?" I said, "Oh, yeah, he did the the shooting star press off the ladder." So maybe I did watch this at the time. Well, obviously from last weeks we know it. I'm a massive fan of of gimmick matches. So to do an eight man with these ladders, just kind of like whatever. I did think it was a bit of a shame here. The finish I thought was was a great finish when Del Rio is up there with Mysterio and they're fighting back and forth and then Del Rio just takes his mask off. Great, great spot and the crowd reacted accordingly. And obviously the idea was he would take Ray's mask off Ray would fall off and he would grab the briefcase, put somehow he takes the mask off Ray, Ray then falls onto another ladder, which then kind of bounces back, kind of hits the ropes, then back into the ladder that Del Rio is on, which like slowly falls over with Del Rio one. And you can just see him being like, oh damn it. So you like kind of slowly falls down, like on top of other ladders is a big mess. And he just has to sit the ladder back up, climb up there to grab the briefcase. But I mean, yeah, I couldn't really say if I thought Eva match was better or worse than each other, to me they all kind of just blend into the same thing if that makes sex. For me, as a connoisseur of gimmicky matches, I can say that the first one was a lot better for me, but they did, to me at least they were two completely different styles of match just with the same situation, like I tried to get across earlier. This one didn't work for me so much. And that might surprise you with somebody who loves the hardcore battle royal. I love chaos. But I prefer like the cleaner storytelling of the first one, which we talked about with PJ. So for example, Kane, they have, like I don't agree with you when you say, I'll just be getting up the ladder like nothing else. It's like, well, they were trying to use tactics. It's like, Wade Barrett's in the ring with someone else big. Maybe it was a Cody Rhodes, I can't remember who, oh, Shamus. And they're both looking at it. It's like, well, we can't just climb a ladder. We have to take out Kane. That's priority number one. So all of that stuff kind of made sense to me from a story perspective or match story perspective. But I don't think there was much of this at all in the Royal One, which is the difference. That that stuff for sure, like, yeah, absolutely. But my issue is is basically you'll have two guys in the ring doing a spot and the other six all just waiting on the floor until their moment. They're no kidding. I'll be honest with you. I've been, I've been guilty of it as well. You know, because I'll do what, you know, someone calls it whatever, I'll go along with it. And it's like, what's the story that these guys all six on the floor, they're all unconscious until they're not and then they come back and do something, then they get unconscious again. Do you know what I mean? Like, that's kind of my problem with these matches that I just think, like, if you ever watch, there was a WWE F pay-per-view called Fatal 4. And it is main event in a Fatal 4 way between, I want to say, Brett, Austin, Takeer and Vader. And it's one of the only Fatal 4 way matches that I've seen. And at the time, it was probably a new concept for them, probably the first one that all four men had done. And they just, they work the match like a shoot. It's like, the whole match is like the four men in the ring at the same time, just all fighting each other. You know when you're a kid and you'd be like, all against all, that's what it was. It wasn't this two men in the ring doing spots as the other two men wait on the floor until it's their turn to come in and do their spots. So that's my problem with these ladder matches. Okay, I mean, that makes sense. And I don't agree with what I'm about to say. I'm just playing with this advocate here. All right, strategically, if you're out the ring, if you're up and about, there's a chance that you can get attacked. Playing Possum, you could say they're not actually unconscious. They're just waiting for that to be able to get a surprise attack sort of thing. Again, I don't believe what I'm saying. I'm just trying to play with this advocate here. It's a possibility. But yes, it doesn't go unnoticed, right? That spotlights on two people at a time until the timer's right for the third one to come in and intercept. Right. And I mean, this is one thing we haven't discussed. So it was a while back where WWE turned sort of stipulation matches into pay-per-views that they made the Hellnessel pay-per-view TLC pay-per-view, money in the bank, elimination chamber. I'm not a big fan of that whatsoever. Like, I don't think it should be Hellnessel match. I think we should have Hellnessel match when a feud sort of suits a Hellnessel match. It's called for. I don't think it's like every year. Oh, God, the Hellnessel match, who should we put in it this year? So that I really don't like. But with the money in the bank, I think it works better if that makes it. I like the idea of them having a money in the bank winner once a year. I think I think it works for money in the bank. Because the prize plays into like the wrestling calendar sort of thing. Right. Yeah. Sort of. I can't really explain what I mean. But it's like makes sense. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like the Royal Rumble almost. It's like an opportunity. It's a golden ticket opportunity. I mean, they could have kept the money in the bank because originally it was just a match they had at WrestleMania's. They could have done that. But they made it into their own baby view and like I'm not completely against it. Yeah. Yeah. I think I am. I am overwatching these multi-man ladder matches though. Okay. Well, I'm not. So one thing that I did enjoy. Let's move on to the proper wrestling. Shall we? As Randy Orton versus Christian is next. And we see a long video package showing that it might be Christian's last chance at the gold. And the really interesting part of this, which I never knew or remembered. But during this video, Christian's lawyer is played by A.E.W. referee Rick Knox. I just thought it was so fun. I was like, is that Rick Knox? Rick had, he referees for A.E.W. now. But I knew him for years at PWG. He would work PWG shows. And here he is dressed up as Christian's lawyer. Lawyer. Obviously brought in as an extra. I just thought that was very interesting to see. So I'll make a real out of that one. But that leads us into the World Heavyweight Championship match, which I believe is the SmackDown Brands Championship. Of course, we've got two world champions. And this match is interesting because the stipulation is if Orton gets the qualified or if there is even poor officiating, he will lose the championship, which basically leads into Christian defeating Randy Orton via the qualification because of a low blow to win the World Championship. So this I4 was a great piece of TV, great piece of wrestling business. Christian winning the World Championship by getting kicked right in the nut sack. Yeah. It's a first. Well, I hope it's the first. Imagine if it turns out there's a long legacy of people going back in and kicked in the next. But for me, it was a first, very unique. That would be a unique gimmick if they had a wrestler that just finished the maneuver was getting kicked in the nuts and he won all his matches just by getting kicked in the nuts. It was good. Of course, Chris, if someone's going to try something like this, it would be Christian. So I like that kind of you'd think that I'd be annoyed with like, oh, no, you can't win with a discolourification, but they wrote it into account for everything and it paid off. So actually, I wasn't angry about this. I thought it was pretty funny, especially as it just was like, there's so many times he nearly got the in-paylor or kills. What's it called? Yeah, the I'm pretty the kill switch. Yeah. You try it multiple times like nothing was working. So then he has like his trump card that he got his lawyer to. So then he just spits in Randy open space because he knows of all people who's going to have a short temper. Who's going to, who can he kind of like, who's going to play into his hands because of his short fuse. So he just spits in his face. It's all hanging off of his nose. Randy open just kicks Christian straight in the pills, but it doesn't matter because that means Christian gets to walk home with the god. I thought it was funny and good. I foot well, they play up on this on the whole entire match. So the stipend, I think Christian had wrestled Orton a few times before this where he felt like he'd been screwed or whatever else. So they put this stipulation in or I guess he somehow gets Orton to agree that if Orton gets disqualified, Christian becomes champion. And they play up on this stipulation for up the whole match. So you know that's going to come into play. Right. And even if it does, they're playing up on it. And unlike the, you know, my problem with the money and the back match, where I'm like, it doesn't seem like they're trying to get the whole point in the match, which is to grab the briefcase. So that really seemed, that doesn't seem to be the number one focus here in this match. It seems like they were doing a much better job of telling that story. I think even the start of this match, Christian gets out of the way, the bell rings. He gets out the ring, gets a chair, throws it at or gives it to Randy Orton and turns his back and he's like, come and then hit me because if he did, Orton then boom, Christian would have been a world champion there and then. I, when I was looking to do my research from this show, I saw some reviews and people were unhappy like, oh, I don't like that Christian won the match or one that World Championship by a qualification. Like I wish he would have got the pinfall on Randy Orton. And I was thinking the complete opposite. I'm like, no, he's a chicken shit hill. This is perfect. It only works because he. Right. I thought, yeah, yeah. Yeah, but this was great. I think that's like, I think that's so much more interesting than him just beating him with the cool switch. I think him getting like what a cool way to say like I won the World Championship. I get kicked in the balls. I think everyone it was great. It was perfect for Christians character. I agree. I guess this brings my question. So Christian was a world champion on the Smackdown brand a couple of times. That is one thing the brand split made happen to wrestling was because there was a Smackdown, they end up being two world champions. Yeah. So it felt like we saw a lot of talent that probably wouldn't normally get a chance at the World Championship or getting a run with the belt. Get one, you know, we spoke earlier about CM Punk's first run. Like Jack Swagger was the world champ for a minute. We finally see Mark Henry win the belt. There was a whole bunch of guys that I think won the world championship that you think, I don't know if they're like, if there was only one championship, they probably would get the chance to do it. Christian won the World title. I want to say twice. Do you think Christian sort of cemented himself as a legit main event? Do you look at Christian as a legit main event or do you think I always to see him as a mid card upper mid card because there's no argument with Christians talent. I think he's a phenomenal phenomenal wrestler. Great. Me personally, I'm not 100% sure if I ever perceived him as a legit main event or what's I used to him. I whoever thought that he should be winning clean by pin four gets Randy Orton saying because look at him and then look at Randy Orton. There's no other way he could possibly win. But yeah, that leads me to your point is the fact that you look at him and be like, he could never win legitimately. Probably means that he's not the caliber of person to probably get the belt either legitimately, which he didn't, which is fair enough. But yeah, if there was only one belt, there's no, I don't think so. And come and reach episode it was, but I've just never, I've said, I've never seen edge or Christian. I know people give edge more credit than Christian, but like as like a main singles, like main competitor, I've never sought either of them of that caliber to be honest. Oh, so you don't even really consider edge a true main event? No, I don't. Maybe it's because our era, they were just a family attack team. I will say this Christian, I believe he goes by Christian case now and he definitely did in his TNA run, which I think because he left the WF work for TNA for years and that was kind of where he got his feet wet as a main event. I was a TNA champion and that kind of, you know, showed at least to me that he could hold main event matches and everything else. I feel like the name Christian cage sounds more like a main event or a main event name than Christian does Christian does sound just like one half of a tag team. Of course it does. Yeah, just one single name. Yeah, for sure. This match though, we'll say this, this match was really good. I love Randy on. I know a lot of people hate on Randy on. I, yeah, people think he's boring. I don't think he's boring. I think he's one of the best wrestlers of all time. He looks just insane here. His physique is just incredible. If I had to say, if someone put a gun to man, he said like, who's your number one man crushed? I don't have like a list or anything, but definitely have a man crush from Randy or and I think he looks just phenomenal. Just, ah, such a, like he looks like a WWE superstar. Um, but when I was watching the match, I thought, he's actually a good looking lad and I wasn't going to bring it up because I knew that you would eventually bring up his physique or looks. Right, right. We always, every episode we fight, it's usually Steve Blackman, but this time it's Randy Orton. He gets our praise. Um, and then after the match, so Christian wins by a disqualification, after the match, Randy or loses it and it was twice he tried to archaeo Christian through the analysis table. Both times did not break. But his facial expression is here and it's incredible. I don't think it told a good story that Christians like completely beating up and destroyed yet he's got the world championship. So good piece of business, but I think we should get into the match that everyone has listened to this show for boom. Of course, I'm talking about CM Punk versus the champion John Cena. So the crowd charts CM Punk for like two or three minutes before they even played John Cena's music. And then when Cena's music finally does play the crowd booze heavily. There's no surprise there. The whole thing is pretty overwhelming. And Punk is there in the ring kind of clapping for part for John Cena. Also interesting note, Colt Cabana and both Colt Cabana and a still at ringside. I'm not sure if you noticed that there. They didn't like to show them a couple of times. But yeah, here it is. The WWE Championship. If Cena loses the title, he's fired. CM Punk defeats John Cena to win the title in 33 minutes and 44 seconds. Now this match is all about the crowd. And when the crowd is like this, where they're just so off the chart, so invested, so rowdy, so passionate, this is sort of pro wrestling and it's absolute best. We've always said if the crowd are going crazy, then we're going crazy. Right. Or something infectious about it, yeah for sure. I was going to say, I really liked the idea that John Cena knew from as soon as he steps out that he's not going to have the crowd behind him. So he's not even like showboating when he comes in. There's a bit later on where he goes to do what would it be like the five Michael Shuffle back then or whatever and he goes to pose, but he knows that it's going to go down like a cup of cold sick. So we kind of like shrugs before he just does it anyway, but he has to do it because he's obviously the company man, that's part of the story, right? Right. Hit the pose when he's supposed to, but he knows it's just going to go nowhere. I liked that they had such a good idea of what the crowd, obviously Chicago crowd are going to be like that they could fit. They knew to fit all of this really good stuff in. Yeah, I mean, the whole thing is very reminiscent of when John Cena did the second ECW one night stand and he wrestled Rob Van Dam. And he didn't see no. Oh, we should watch that. We should review that on the show and the crowd is all pro Rob Van Dam and anti-Cena. And that's, you know, it's when they first had the sign that said, if Cena wins, we write it. I think there were some of those signs for those loads. Yeah, loads. This came from that ECW one night stand show. But yeah, this is the match that everyone remembers this show for and this was given like I think Meltzer gave it five stars and everyone said, this is such an amazing match. But again, it was a good match, but it was 100% the crowd made this match. And again, it done this, put the storyline so perfect where people cared. They were so invested in the video package. We see CM Punk tell John Cena that he's become the New York Yankees and John Cena was very upset about that. And that was his breaking point. We end up punching punk for that. Why was Cena so upset at being called the New York Yankees? My guess is as good as yours. I'm assuming I'm assuming the New York Yankees are the Manchester United. Well, that's kind of what I, yeah, is it kind of like you've become the glory hunters team. More about mainstream than the actual sport itself. Is that what he meant? I believe that's what it is. Yeah, because we don't understand American sports. So if anyone knows, I assume that's what he meant. I'm assuming that is the case. There was a fork going through my head watching this match because the whole crowd is pro CM Punk. And at one point, we see like two little kids or at least a kid in like a John Cena T-shirt and hat. I just got me thinking I bet like this kid's mom's probably been like, oh, the WWE wrestling in town. Oh, you love John Cena. Let's go take you to see John Cena. And they're just there to see John Cena. They turn up and the crowd is like this. They're probably just like, what? What if it's going on like I thought everyone loved John Cena with the red shirt and the red hat right at the front? Is that what you mean? I mean, there was like no, no, no, no, no, that was a man. That was a grown up. Yeah, I was going to say that was a grown up. I'm talking about like little kids in the crowd. Yeah, that was there for John Cena. their mom's probably turned out, they probably haven't been watching Monday night, Roi Vell week. And I'm just like, what is going on here? This poor kid's probably like, I wanna see my hero, John Cena. And he's just getting booed out the building. I always wondered with John Cena because you hear the chance a lot, not so much now, but back in the day, fans, a lot of fans kinda booed John Cena. And they were a chart, you can't wrestle at John Cena. And obviously you could wrestle, obviously he's an exceptional wrestler. I think it was more because his technique on a lot of stuff was kind of unorthodox, I would say. The one thing that I could never understand, which John Cena is, when he does the STFU, is gripped on when he grabs it. It always seems like there's so much air on the STFU. Like he's been criticized for that for years, where it doesn't look like he's pulling back on the face. And he's just kind of wrapped his hands around his opponent's face, but he's not pulling back. And I always wondered why he did that way. And I was just so confused to thought, why can't he just tighten that up just a little bit? Like that would just make his game. - But you know what it needs to just. - Right. And then I think the reason why I could be wrong and purely speculating, I think the reason why he doesn't grab their face and pull it back is, of course, WWE is all about seeing the rest of his faces. - For those close ups. - Right, here is where you make your money. And it's all about hitting the cameras with the faces. And when you're beating up your opponent, you want your opponent to be able to sell their face to the camera. So I literally think he's just holding them like that so the camera can see their face. But, so I understand that part of them. I'm not like, I'm just thinking, please just make the move look a little bit more, realistic, please. (laughs) But that's my theory anyway. Yeah, this match was, it's funny because when I was doing the research for this show, I kept seeing these things like, oh, this is one of the best WWE pay-per-views of all time. And then when I watched it, I thought, hmm, really, to me, it's kind of like a one-match card. Like Christian around New York was really good. But this was like the only thing I fought on the show, which was terrific. And I think the reason why people say this is one of the best pay-per-views of all time is because this show seemed very much like a changing of the guard. So Daniel Bryan, - Boy, Danielson, you've been an internet favorite for years and years and years. Finally gets to push. They make, you know, he wins the money in the bank when I think the favorites were Eva Cody Rhodes or Wade Barrett with it and they went to Bryan. And then here, they finally, you know, pulled the bug with CM Punk, put the championship on him. So again, I think the reason why the fans looking at this is such an amazing show is because it was the time when WWE kind of, it seemed like they changed their, what they wanted out of wrestler. 'Cause before this, it was all John Cena and Batista and all sort of big shame, it's all big guys. And then here, they're like, you know what, the smaller guys that you all love, you know, we can run with them. We can run with a Daniel Bryan. We can run with a CM Punk, et cetera. So I think fans kind of romanticize this show because of that personally. - If you had the same love of gimmick matches as I do, which you don't now understand that, then you would think that this card was a lot better than just the final match. I do think that because for me, I agree with what you say. I can see where you feel that way, for example. And also, I feel like your points of what, slightly annoying people would call a paradigm shift, you know, that change in wrestling this much at turning point, I completely understand and agree with. But for me, no, this wasn't just a one match night for at all, like as far as I'm concerned. So no, it was a great, like it was bookended for me with great matches. We had a banger opener. And I know you don't like the gimmick matches, banger opener, banger closer, mixed bag in between. - Well, not even a mixed bag, because like Christian was really, you know, the Christian match was really good. - No, I thought that was, I didn't think it was a one match card. I just think to me, there was only one match on the show that was like terrific. So I was confused as to why people were suggesting that it's one of the greatest WWE pay me views of all time. That I did not, I did not get that vibe at all from watching this show. The money in the bank matches, they're fine, they're fine to watch. I'm saying, not really for me. They were entertaining, I guess. But again, not really my cup of tea. And the Orton and Christian match was decent, but they actually had much better matches. They had a really good match at SummerSlam, really good match at Over the Edge. The Cena and Punk match, obviously, an amazing, credible match. But I don't, I think people just say this is the greatest pay me view of all time, because of the reason I mentioned and because of this match in particular, and because how awesome the crowd were. Like you said, you enjoy these money in the bank matches, which is totally cool. But these matches weren't being talked about years and years afterwards. - Okay, that's fine. I think there's one more thing people might be talking about when they talk about this pay per view. I don't do crazy amounts of research, I'd find that disingenuous that I don't know this stuff beforehand, so why would I arm myself? But I did Google Money in the Bank 2011, and this picture of the poster or whatever comes up, and it's the big show in a nightcap, and Hans Woggle in a nightcap getting read a bedtime story by the big show. And I thought it was a meme or like a Reddit, like a fan thing. I was like, oh, that's hilarious. (laughs) Carry on, go on peacock. Look at Money in the Bank 2011. I'm like, oh my, see the thumbnail, I'm like, oh my god, it's actually real. (laughs) - That was a bizarre show poster. I mean, it seems bizarre to not have CM Punk on the show poster or Punk and Cena. I think, so they have to do that sort of stuff like really far in advance, and I think the CM Punk stuff all kind of happens within the last month leading up to the pay per view, where that poster might have been done for five or even six months before the pay per view, and you've seen that happen, I'll actually quite a lot in the WWE, where there'll be a show poster put out there in the press, and then the person on the show poster won't even be on the show, that's happened before. In fact, Hornswag, I don't think, yeah, was an honor show. - Hornswag wasn't even on it. I thought bad for all the Hornswag fans, I had to get a refund. - Right, but yeah, pretty bizarre. I think they would sometimes make effort to do like a poster where they would get guys in to do like a fun photo shoot and a theme rather than just a pictures of the wrestlers. You know, you got the largest athlete in the world, and the smallest athlete in the world. Kind of cool concept, I guess. Hornswag or Big Show didn't really fit for this show whatsoever. You got Big Show getting his ass kicked, and no sight of Hornswag or really, really bizarre poster. - Retrospect. - It's the most, yeah, I mean, let me just pull it up real quick, and then we'll, I don't even know what to say. (laughing) - Oh, I get it, I get it. It's like Big Show in Hornswag or playing with the wrestling figures, but it's actually wrestlers, is that what it is? - No, look, they're in their nightcaps. Big Show and Hornswag are going to bed, but before they go to bed, Big Show's reading Hornswag or bedtime story, and it's such a great story that it's like it's coming alive in front of their eyes. - Oh, okay. Oh, I think that's cool, I think that's awesome. (laughing) - You'd have no idea about seeing punk or anything. - No, so funny. - Oh, sorry. - I don't think Sponsor by Skiddles was mentioned at all, apart from this picture, but maybe that's a peacock thing, maybe that was-- - That's a peacock thing, yeah. - Gotcha. - No, all in all, I actually think it's a pretty cool poster, nothing to do with the show, but-- - And whatsoever, it's like, you know, old video games and stuff, or old movies, where you look at the front cover, and it's one thing, you play the game, it's like, this is not what I had in mind. So it's just like that. (laughing) - Before we get into our least favorite and favorite match, I would say this, a punk wins the world championship, he runs out through the crowd, he does the famous blows a kiss of instant man with the WF Championship. I think the next day, I think this was this famous picture, punk, tweet in a picture of the world, the WF Championship in his fridge, which was pretty funny, the idea that he'd left the WF with the championship. But of course, I guess in real life, he had, I think actually during this show, he had resigned a deal with the WF Championship, and they only kept him off TV for like, I'm pretty sure he was back like a week later, They could say they. They had it where it's like, oh, we've got a crowning new champion because punk has left, but then punk came back way too soon. I felt like they should have had him gone for at least three months to make the storyline seem real. I would have let him go do indie shows and stuff to make the whole thing seem legit. I think he did turn up to an indie show, maybe the next day, but a really small one that was it and they didn't really cover it or incorporate it into the storyline. But yeah, absolutely for them on a match. I'm going to ask you first, your favourite match on this card. I think I know the answer, but I could we could have a swirve. I really, really like the final match, but there's one thing about it that irked me that I can't get out of my head is that they build up this thing where it's all about CM Punk and he's resilient. So he kicks out of multiple FUs or attitudes, just what what have they called any. First of all, you know that kind of bothers me when people kick out of a move like that, especially multiple times. Kind of started to work me, but then on top of that, he didn't win because of his resilience or anything. He won because of John Cena's honor. Who was it? Was it John Luronitis? Who came out to like get the bell rung and John Cena knocked him out and told Vince McMahon, no, we're going to do this like legit, like the real way, like clean and I don't know when like that or something. And CM Punk just wins because John Cena was distracted and too high on a seem like it wasn't as earned as if he just threw pure triumph of will. But don't you like that? Like how John Cena is like Superman, but like his honor is his crypto. He's going to be he's the perfect wrestler, but that can be a detriment. And I think you look at the two wrestlers, you look at Park, you look at John Cena like, John Cena probably winning a fight between these two and Punk's, you know, he's still even as a baby face, Punk's still had kind of heel tendency. So I, I wasn't against that. So in fact, he was supposed to be a heel heel, like he was actually on story in storyline. He was a heel, but they're in Chicago, so he's the biggest baby face ever. So technically, if they had the roster's written on a, you know, a page, he would have been on the heel side still. So I don't think you could just beat John Cena clean. No, no, fair enough. Yeah. All right, then, I, it's torn between the first match and the last match for me. I think I'm going to go for the final match still, but that is really difficult because the first match was such a bang and you know how important it is for me and the opening match is almost as important as the final match. And I feel like both of them were just killers. So either way you can't complain, but I'm going to give it to the final match with CM Punk and John Cena. What's your favorite match of the night? Yeah, John Cena and CM Punk for sure. What was your least favorite match of the night and why was it Bribella versus Keri? Unfortunately, I've got to give it to the girls. Kenny Kelly, Bribella. I will say this. Bribella, you can see, is trying and you can tell that she's been learning and she would end up becoming not bad, not bad wrestler. Here she's certainly better than Kenny Kelly. And again, you can see that she's been working on it. So I don't really want to shit on them, but the crowd didn't care whatsoever. Like in terms of the rest of the card, they're the most least experienced. So it makes sense that they would have the, you know, the least enjoyable match. So yeah, I don't really want to crap on them, but yeah, I think if you asked this question to anyone watching this show, I think they'd probably agree with me. The best match, Punk and Cena, the worst match. Unfortunately, the deepest championship. I mean, I agree with you. That's my least favorite and that's my favorite as well. So we're not bucking any trends this week. We're going, we're being John Cena. We're being the straight man. Yeah. Well, we've got to give our star rating as well. Survivor Series 2002 is the better pay per view for me as in I enjoyed it more. I prefer that one. That was my favorite one I've covered so far, but I actually do think that money in the bank 2011 is a better pay per view. Oh, I really do. I thought it was really good. I would give it. Oh my god. You know, I don't like doing my half. I'm going to do my half for and a half for and a half. Yeah. My Lord, what I'm missing. Maybe I need to watch this show again. I'm going to give it, I'm going to give it free stars. It's better than average. So I thought it was a good show. Thing is, I think the Cena and Punk thing was phenomenal, but like I said, the rest of the card I was kind of give would take. Of course, I love seeing PJ. I love seeing him. I'm going to go, the money, the bank, money, the bank matches, yeah, they're fine. The rest of the card. Yeah. Sorry. I'm going to give it, I can't give it any higher than free stars. I'm afraid, but that's still, that's still better than average. Remember that people before you get on me. I mean, this is how you feel, you know, like if it feels like, for me, it feels like a 4.5. No, it's the year, 2000 and 23, like, if you don't agree with my opinion, then you've got to be angry at me. That is true. You're not allowed to say that is the internet. Yeah. Okay. So I said 4.5. You said three. So this is going to make the cheese, the average a little awkward. Three point three three point seven five. Yes, correct. Cool. All right. I mean, I think that's that that's really good. Like that's nearly four. Exactly. That's going to be top of the ranks, but yes, we've kind of screwed ourselves though, because we always like wrestling used to be better and the most current one we've ever covered has probably the highest score. Well, guys, it was good. It was good. It was good. Of course, we'd had some shows that weren't so great for quite a few weeks. So we need to see a strong show and the people suggested money to back 2011. So we hope you enjoyed it. If you enjoyed us doing a more recent show like this one 2011, please let us know of course, what on the Instagram at the villain pods, we post on there every day so come get interacting with us on there. The same handle the villain pods on TikTok and of course our YouTube channel. And yeah, I guess we're going to have to find a show to do next week and I have a long, long list of many of the listeners suggestions. So please be patient. I'm sure we'll get through them all at one point or another, but at the moment we're only doing one show a week and that's until our Patreon comes along. Of course. So yeah, I thought that was a pretty damn fun show. Pretty damn fun show. Sam, it seems like you agree. So do you want to see us out? I will do indeed. Again, thank you for whoever or multiple people who answered our poll, what do you want to see? Especially thank you for everyone who recommended this one. It was for me, it was awesome and I just really enjoyed covering it anyway. So thanks for that. Keep the ideas coming. On the long enough timeline, we'll get through them all. We will. And it's a big good ideas. A big thank you to PJ Black obviously, Justin Gabriel for coming on the pod being our first ever interviewee on the show. Yep. That was awesome. All right, guys. Well, tell us what you thought of the episode on IG and give us a follow. But until then, have a good week. Till next week.