Molly Shannon Returns

Hi, my name is Molly Shannon, and I feel proud and cool to be Conan O'Brien's friend. Whoa, okay. No, you're not. I don't think I generate a cool vibe, but. Yes, you do. Really? Oh, yeah. Of course. Are you kidding? The coolest. Brand new shoes, walkin' blues, climb the fence, books and pens, I can tell that we are gonna be friends, yes, I can tell that we are gonna be friends. Hey there, welcome to Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend. I'm joined by Sonam Ovsessian. Hello. And of course, Mr. Gourley, how are you, sir? I'm well, how are you? I'm really good. Although we did discover recently that the chair I'm in makes noises. Yeah, it does. Are we gonna oil it? Are we gonna oil this chair? What's going on? I am not the person. Did we find out what's wrong with this chair? I'm actually, I will say, Jason Chalemi and I are ahead of the game. We already switched that chair out for you. So this is a new chair that doesn't make noise. But I just interviewed a very famous celebrity. Yes. And while I was talking to him, I heard. Yes. We all thought it was a phone. It sounded like a very old Jimmy Stewart at an auction. Oh, God. I can't buy that. But what was going on? Who would have thought? How do you even allow a chair like that to even be in this room? Well, we're not exactly. We don't test the chairs every day beforehand. Oh, wait. This is why you didn't get that job at NASA. We don't test the rockets. That's why. We didn't test them. I mean, we kind of operate. In this studio, we kind of operate on a, oh, when it breaks, then we fix it. Yeah, yeah. Versus being ahead of the game. We kind of wait for something bad to happen. Well, I don't know. You just looped Eduardo into your failure. Oh, no. Okay, fine. And that's not. No, no. I go by that. Yeah. Let's just make sure we have the proper equipment. Perfect. Everyone looked at the clock to see how much more time we have during this segment when I started speaking, by the way. Yeah. Well, I do it to just mark when to wrap. I wasn't making a judgment call. Blay, I like you, and I appreciate it. Yeah, and I'm just looking for. I didn't look at it. I don't look at the clock. I just look for something that I can hurt myself with. Just made it so awkward. Yeah. Like, we want you to just stop talking? Yeah. But we tell you that, and I'm actually subtle about it. No, no, no. Literally, you all look. As soon as I started speaking, everyone looked at the clock to see. Oh, no, they didn't. I didn't look at the clock. You did. You all looked over there. No, I didn't. This is on video. We keep it back. I'm the keeper of the time. That's my job. It's nothing personal. Okay. I'm sorry. But now you've talked a lot, and I am going to look at the clock. Yeah. Now I'm looking at the clock a lot. I apologize. Your chair is fixed. It's fixed. But it did make a big noise, and it was a big problem. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Another big problem that needs to be fixed right over there. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. You're saying that this institution is literally not a well-oiled machine. Exactly. It is not. We had a topic. And then we went down this primrose path. I'm sorry. What were we talking about? I can't remember. Why don't we just start over? No, no, this is fine. Just, will you not? Shut up, Blake. When did you decide, Blake, when did you decide that you needed to steer the podcast left and right? I got this. I got this. What a madman. Leave the man alone. He does a lot here. I know he does a lot. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sort of the Unabomber. Okay, so we had, I'm talking to you now, Matt. Let's see if interjecting can just settle down for a second. What about me? You're good, okay? We'll get to you. We had a topic that we agreed on before we started. Yeah, we were going to talk about the fact that Sona's sons have learned to swim. Oh my God. That was the topic? It's full disclosure. We sat around for five minutes. That was the topic? Are we trying to think of something? That was the topic that made us say hallelujah? She brought it up and you went, okay, let's go. I know you did. I just was saying it. You approved it. Wow. You know what's looking tempting? You know what's looking tempting right now? Blaze multi-volume discussion of squeaking chairs. Part four, chapter one. But okay, so let's commit to this and see if there's something there. So Sona, word on the street is that your twin sons learned to swim? Yeah, Charlie and Mikey can swim now. Okay. No floaties needed, baby. What was the process? They went to classes and had an instructor one-on-one and they taught them what to do and they did it. Wow. Well, that's a good story. I've got a story. No, but I have one too. Do you want to hear about how I learned to swim? That's what I was going to say. I want to learn how you learned. Let me show you how you tell a story about swimming. We went, they made a promise that the swimming would be learned. It was learned and all was done. No conflict. No conflict, no plot point. And then everyone was happy. And then long credits, 40-minute credits. We did have a little bit of a conflict. Oh, good. This is how you tell a story. You didn't want to lead with that? They were learning how to swim in this one pool and then they thought they could only swim in that one pool. Oh, you took them someplace else and they thought. So then when I took them home or we took them to another pool, they were like, this is not the pool we swim in. They took site-specific swimming lessons. Yeah, yeah. It only works in that one pool. I can understand that. That's sweet. When I was a little kid growing up, and I think I've mentioned this before, we didn't have a summer house or anything, but we would stay at my grandfather's, summer cottage. He had a small house near the state beach in Misquamica, Rhode Island. And so all of us, the giant O'Brien clan, would cram into my grandparents' house and that was our favorite thing. We'd go there for like a month in August and we would go down to the beach and it was time for us to learn swimming, how to swim. And my mother signed us up for red cross classes that they taught in. this marshy area that was near the state beach. You know, not the most appetizing body of water. It was like a salt marsh. This is where you're going to learn to swim. Yeah, and you'd climb through some tall reeds, maybe be attacked by a crane. And, you know, it had that boggy smell, methane-y smell. But anyway, we'd all gather. Of course, my mother, I would burn, constantly. And so she would just put white T-shirts on us, which we now know just attracts more sun. And I would get giant blisters on my back. I'm just picturing these little red children walking into a swamp. I was so red. I don't even think they had come out with sunblock yet. This is, you know, the early 1970s. So she put. I think she just put mayonnaise on our faces and then I'd be attacked by these. More appetizing for the animals. Yeah, attacked by these marsh animals. So I'm sitting there, like, cross-legged, and this woman would lecture us and then she would say whose turn it was to go in. And the first thing she wanted us to learn was how to float on our back. And I remember she would always read through all our names and we had to say present, but she would always say the same thing. She would go, Con-an O'Brien. C-O-N-O-N. Con-an O'Brien. And then on the ride home, my brother Neil would go, Con-an O'Brien. Con-an O'Brien. Con-an O'Brien. Con-an O'Brien. Con-an O'Brien. And I would sit there burning, like, shivering, because you get, like, blisters and then you're shivering and covered in just, like, a methane-y bog smell. And still, like, a, you know, some kind of marsh bird still nestled in my shirt. And that was my traumatic introduction. But I do thank God. I thank the Red Cross for teaching me how to float on my back, which I can do to this day. Which I can do to this day. And yes, you have a story. Oh, well, a year ago, when we hired a swimming instructor for my daughter, Glenn. And so this is the first time she's coming over. We've never met her. She's a wonderful young woman. Comes over, gets out of her day clothes into a leopard print one-piece. Very attractive young woman. Wow. Sits there. None of us have entered the backyard yet. And she's just sitting there in the pool. Turns out she's in our neighbor's pool. And the mother of the neighbors comes out and is like, what is this woman? Oh, she went to the wrong house? She went to the wrong house. What is this? Is my husband having an affair? What is this woman in a leopard print bathing suit doing in our pool? And she came over. She figured it out and came over. She's like, I'm so sorry. I just went to your neighbor's and the wife was there and she thought maybe I was having an affair or something. Can I just say, this is the excuse I use every time Liza catches me cheating. Every time. Who's this bikini bimbo in our backyard? Swimming instructor. Who mistakenly came to our home. I say that every time. And Liza goes, oh. Oh my God. So how did the lessons go? Fine after that. And she and I are very close now. I bet you are. Listen, the important thing is it started off with us not knowing what to say. And, uh, and, and Blay, you did try to help and I appreciate that. Um, you know, you, you stumbled and bumbled as most large forest bears do. Yes, I'm sorry. But you did help. You got us. And then I think my anger towards you caused me to come up, suddenly remember this story. We got there. Oh, maybe it was me prompting you guys with some good premise. It could have been. But don't we always say, let's just go. We'll figure it out. But also it was Sona's inability to tell. to tell a good story that I think at a panic, rose to the occasion and then you rose to the occasion so sony you helped too you're welcome all right my guest today is a hilarious actress who was a cast member on saturday night live now you can see her alongside will ferrell in the new netflix comedy series the hawk this woman is one of my all-time favorite human beings and i'm thrilled she's back on the podcast molly shannon welcome molly uh listen i've known you a long time you're gonna listen to me now i don't know i said listen listen here i've known you a long now you listen to me uh i'm a huge admirer of yours you have the best energy molly just walked into this building and just made everybody happy it's sunshine but the best energy molly just walked into this building and just made everybody happy it's sunshine but the best energy molly just walked into this building and just made everybody happy that's the effect you have on people you you were talking to everyone you were talking about how much you love the building you were you were hugging me you were hugging our our booker paula davis um i got a hug oh even you got a hug yeah even you come on i always feel like we have oh here's your coffee oh my god let's have this coffee come in thank you very much maddie thank you and a kinship with you molly and i i don't know if i'm correct in saying any of this but we both are irish stock catholic yes irish catholic okay and i used to watch you you know over the years when i first was watching you on snl and i would notice that you would just throw yourself around with absolute careless abandon often into stacked chairs classroom chairs as mary kathleen gallagher you know and at the time i remember thinking well those must be made of foam and then i found out later no they're just the same chairs they use in a classroom which are the most dangerous thing in the world you can throw yourself into yeah yeah i would see you do that and i would think oh i too if i think it will get a laugh yeah we'll do something would throw myself into a pile of of nails if i thought people would laugh yeah yeah and i thought uh i this this molly shannon i don't know i need it's just always made me very curious about you and i've always felt like we're quasi related is that possible i know it could be possible um but how how catholic were you growing up very catholic my dad was really um you know yeah we went to church all the time and he was very uh i would say very religious you know yeah yeah he believed that you shouldn't have sex before marriage or you should put your marriage certificate above the bed like that type of catholic oh my god yeah yeah he felt like you shouldn't live with somebody before you were married yeah well that would be my parents as well your parents too yeah yeah yeah interesting yeah they were both very catholic yeah um in almost a 19th century way you know like it felt like and they were both very smart my parents were both very smart people who lived in the modern world but came from this 19th century idea i think a little bit of how one should conduct oneself that's i love that old-fashioned values i was going to say but regarding the mary kathryn stuff i feel at that time i was much crazier and more reckless and it felt a little bit like i didn't care and i i wouldn't even feel pain when i was doing it i would feel nothing i would feel it the next day but i couldn't the next day does that isn't that like i wake up bruised and cut and i could not feel it in the moment at all my wife would always notice like i'm getting out of the shower and i would just my whole leg would be yellow and purple and she'd say what is that and i go huh and then i'd remember oh right we had a water buffalo on set and i jumped on it and i got thrown off of it you know i would remember these things and it didn't hurt as much at the time because i was getting all the adrenaline of people laughing exactly yeah orange man fell down and then you didn't even notice you were bruised and no you don't really think about that stuff and later on you'd notice this leg won't work just walking in circles yeah did you i think you used to watch mass on television because i remember that being a fixture when i was staying at my grandfather's uh house he would have the mass on my grandmother and grandfather would have the mass on television and i remember being kind of fascinated by that because sometimes it was the only thing that came in this is before cable yeah and you would just watch whatever came in like oh we're getting reception on this one channel it's a catholic mass let's check it out it beats going outside and playing like other people yeah my sister mary and i would watch the mass for shut-ins they called it and we would count and they would show people going up to communion and we would try to get the way for you get the way for we would we would guess how many people were wearing glasses and so it was i mean today we were you were looking into the future because today that's the kind of stuff people bet online about they can you can make any kind of bet and that's the kind of thing people would bet online about now my friend's son started polymarket oh you're kidding yeah that must be going wisdom of the crowd right yeah i know it's amazing but i was gonna say and then we would watch this other show called davian goliath right after do you remember that of course i remember davian goliath it was claymation yeah and it was it was a boy named davy and his dog was named goliath and goliath would be like i don't know davy it doesn't sound like a good idea and they were made i think by the catholic archdiocese yes and they were a little morality tales and so it was always you know this claymation boy yeah saying um i'm gonna go over there and you know throw paint against that wall i don't know davy oh there they are there's davy and goliath that's so cool yeah yeah and that show so that show was weird some of the episodes were very strange yeah yeah yeah i'll have to go back and look at it but i remember let me refresh your memory okay i'm glad you brought this up there's one my brother neil and i howled for days about this we were watching it davy and the whole family is on a camping trip and davy finds this beautiful spring like a little watering hole that all the animals are drinking at and it's just beautiful and davy finds this beautiful spring that all the animals are drinking at and he finds a can of red paint and he pours it into the watering hole and says look i made a giant strawberry shake ha ha ha and of course the dog goes i don't know davy and then you see all the animals yeah you see all the animals try to drink out of it and they can't do they die and i think they're gonna die and the father has a stern talk with davy and i thought davy's a sociopath yeah that's amazing that's really messed up i'm gonna put plutonium in this water supply so no one in new york can have a drink of water and anyone who does will die i don't know davy that's an act of terrorism anyway i'm sorry i went on a jag there i love it wait conan do you are you like do you consider yourself an extrovert extrovert or do you ever have time when you're not performing like not being bruised waking up bruised where you're just like have to be quiet and just reading or or are you well i do like to read i was just curious about that it's a funny thing where i want to say i'm a i'm you can be both it's a weird thing but you can be an insane extrovert which i can be and then there are other times where you know people come to the door and i just kind of want to stay in my room yes because you almost feel a shyness like yeah i don't want to turn that guy on right now yes but of course i would say most the time um it's weird you can be both i'm guessing you're both i'm both jack nicholson used to say when he would go out in public he would have to be the mayor you have to be the mayor oh hello everybody you know like really and i think that's a good way to put it yes i'm definitely both i love being around people i'm like you and i i get energy from people but i can be by myself for hours and be completely entertained hiking and being quiet yeah so i think i'm an extrovert introvert maybe yeah i think you can be both i just spent a weekend and it was my wife was out of town and i just it was me and my two dogs because my kids are both you know uh out of town and i just spent my whole weekend either reading a book or walking with the dogs and then i came in today and i can't stop talking i know that's amazing and it's been a problem they want to sedate me you've been alone yeah do you feel like giddy when you're by yourself with the dogs i was like i'm really happy myself yeah i'm really happy i can do whatever i want yeah and how long do you sit and read how long can you if you have the luxury of time oh i would read for hours if i could you know i mean with breaks yes with breaks because uh and i blame apps apps have shortened my reading time but um as long as i take a little break um i can i can read a lot and i like that makes me really happy yeah um this is interesting because when you describe your childhood it's not like mine and you've talked about this i know a lot and you've talked about it on this podcast yeah how your dad was very unconventional in some of his thinking yes Because at one point, in one ways, he's very Catholic and very strict. But in another way, he had these very strange ideas that he was about what it is to have a child. Is that fair to say? Oh, sure. Like he would encourage you've never talked to this about this with me, but he would encourage you to cheat. Yes, yes. He did not care a lot. So this is a guy who says no premarital sex, no premarital sex. And you can't live with someone before you marry them. But if you can cheat to get ahead, do it. He was like that. No, he just he really thought street smarts were like a great thing. You know, learning how to make a buck and make it in the world and school. He would say if I had a big exam and I was stressed out in high school, he would say, can't you get a call in sick and get a copy of the test so you can go in the next day? So he really did not care about school. He was so laid back. And yeah, he was much more into street smarts. Isn't that interesting? It's fascinating. And then, yeah, so he didn't mind. And then if we went to the amusement park, like he's like, OK, if you guys clean out that backyard, I'll take you to Geauga Lake, this local amusement park in Cleveland. And then but then when we got there, he was like, I don't really want to have to pay. So he's like, can you guys sneak in? Oh, my God. Hop over the fence. And we were like, but there's barbed wire. Go around. And he was like, just do it. Do it. It'll be an investment. I'm sure. Because he didn't want to pay. It's funny that he's defining this as street smarts. I know. These are just crimes. These are crimes. These are crimes. This is all illegal. But it must have, I mean. He was wild. He was fun. We would go to the movies, right? He didn't. I've told these stories before, but we would we would go to the movie and then after the mall or whatever, they would have those gates that they would pull down like at Spencer's Gifts or the wig store or whatever. And then we saw a wig store coming out of the movies. The mall. And he was like, stick your little hand in there and try to pull it. And we'll say, Molly, you have a little wrist to it. He thought it was the claw game that you get in an arcade. It's like that. You just reach your hand in and if you can get it, you can. It's a jewelry store, but if you can get your hand in there, you get to keep it. But we would do it. So I'd pull like wig, wig, wig from me and him and my friend Anna. We'd put them on and we would die laughing running out of the mall with our wigs on. No one will ever catch us. They said leaving the mall. Wearing three crazy wigs. Arrest that man with a beehive hairdo. No, there is 100 crazy stories like that. He was wild. He was a rule breaker. But yes, he was traditional. But understand the Catholic stuff was a little messed up because he is he ended up admitting right before he died. I said, have you ever thought you might be gay? And he was like, most definitely. Oh, wow. And so I think he was conflicted with his. What? What? He's not alive to say what he would have been, whether it be bisexual, homosexual. But I did say, have you ever thought you might be gay when he was dying of cancer? Seventy two. We were sitting at the Four Seasons Hotel. I was on a press. And he's like, most definitely. And then we talked all about it. So I think the closeted homosexuality or bisexuality was mixed up with the Catholic stuff. Does that make sense? Of course it does. Yeah, because he couldn't fully be who he wanted to be. So I think he had anger about that. Sure. Being able to express himself. Yeah. So. And then it comes out your elbow. It says, this is a phrase I've always thought that I've heard used, which is, if you can't admit some essential truth about yourself, you think you can suppress it, but it's coming out in some way. Yes, yes, exactly. And that means stealing wigs through a grave. Exactly. You, I heard this one story that you and one of your friends used to go to a hospital to eat food. Mm-hmm. How would you do that? That's so fun. Well, that's kind of like. Oh, this one's fun. Oh, yeah. No, I don't think we did it. No, we didn't. We would pay for the food. But it was kind of like, I still feel that way. It was if you've kind of felt in a little bit of a rut, I would do, I would try to throw myself into a different atmosphere. Like, oh, let's go, let's just go up to the hospital and we'll get lunch and we'll get, like, cream of broccoli soup and a split of tuna for salad sandwich and we can watch the doctors. And it felt inspiring. It felt inspiring to be in a different type of atmosphere. Yeah, of course. I still feel that same. I still feel that same way. And when I would, when I was first in L.A. and I was struggling as an actress, I would get kind of depressed because I was like, oh, this is so hard. It's such a hustle. I didn't realize how hard it was. So when I felt in kind of a blue mood, I would drive to Ontario, California, and I would go to the Wilford Academy School of Beauty and let the young students do my hair. And I would get breakfast at Molly's and then I would feel better, kind of throwing myself. And I would feel better, kind of throwing myself in a new atmosphere. Right? It's like traveling, but like little cheap ways to kind of open your mind. Yes. Yeah. There is this concept among, you know, neurologists, you have to just keep challenging your brain. Yes. You have to just keep changing it up. Yeah. And then one of the problems is people get into a rut and they're not challenged. So it sounds like almost the ultimate way to say, I'm going to go to, you know, I'm going to hang out with some scuba divers just to see what that's all about. Exactly. Even though I haven't passed any classes and I could easily die underwater. I'm just going to try it. Well, I love reading about brain science and stuff. And I do think if you do feel in that state, sometimes an action can help you kind of get out of your head. And I think, yeah, so I love reading about that. Also, if you ever felt like, you know, angry or something, if you do or kind of supercharged, if you do a math problem, like a subtraction problem in your head, that can also calm down your amygdala. Or if you. I just love the idea of. How you can change your thoughts and how you can change your thoughts and stuff to do to help you get out of a little rut or something. Yeah. Of course it does. I love reading about that. Yeah. Yeah. Every now and then I'll be doing something and a friend said, well, this doesn't seem very like you. And I think, well, that's good. Yeah, yeah. Because I want to try. Like what kind of thing, for example? Well, I don't talk about it much on the show, but for years I drive a motorcycle. I ride a motorcycle. And people don't know that. And I do it kind of like. I just like. And you can be another person. Yeah. You can put on a helmet and you can just go. And as long as you have a credit card in your pocket, you can pay for gas and you can go anywhere. Yeah. And sometimes I just feel like I'm a different person when I'm doing that. And I take off for most of a day and come back. And it's very therapeutic. Exactly. Because I'm being someone else for a while, which I really like. Yes. I love that. I also kill people. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. No, you can. You can. If it's completely random, nothing links you to the crime. And then you get away. But you have that feeling of like, I'm choking the life out of you. You know what I mean? Yeah. And then you run a little quick burial, shallow grave, and then you run away. And then you just feel like I was just that guy for a while. I've done that second one a lot. Oh, my God. And I lied about the motorcycle. I mostly just kill. I know that you were here to talk about this project that you're doing with Will Ferrell. Yes. And you two have such a unique chemistry and relationship that just goes back. Yes. Did you work together before SNL? Or was SNL the time that you came together? Oh, that was the time we came together. I worked at Melrose Baking Company. And Will was in the Groundlings Comedy School across the street. And we had a mutual friend named Patricia Cotter. And she said, Molly, I really think you're going to get along great with this guy, Will Ferrell. And I was like, bring him over to the coffee shop. So he came over. And I was like, nice to meet you. And what do you want? And he was like, I'll have a scone and a latte. And then we just started talking. We became friends. We've been friends for over 30 years. We did click right away, just like she said. And I got on SNL first. And Will came shortly after. Yeah, we just right away clicked so much. Yeah. And have been really close, close friends for so long. Yeah. Yeah. So long. And then you're on SNL together and everything else happens. Yeah. And I really did feel like the press was kind of behind. And when we all first started, all us newcomers, they were kind of like, you know, really hard on us. And I remember thinking, wow, the press is really behind. They're just kind of copying old press. And Will, to take the, like, to not feel bad, he would hang up the worst reviews about himself on his office door. Oh, man. Isn't that wild? To just kind of take the, you know. To not feel ashamed about it. Sure. And I was like, God, good for him. I could never do that. But I remember thinking, they're wrong and they don't, these people are really good. I'm like, this is good. So it helped me understand the press a little bit where I was like, wow, they're like outside and haven't caught up yet. I remember first hearing about Will and someone said, oh, yeah, I've been hanging out with this new cast member, Will Ferrell. And the end of the season, he was dressed as a character on some sketch. Yeah. And he decided to just keep wearing the costume. Yes. And I don't know if it was like a, you know, like a boiler suit or some kind of over-the-top weird costume, but he wore it for weeks and weeks. And a friend of mine said, yeah, I saw him at the National History Museum and he's still wearing that outfit. Oh, my God. And I said, I don't know who that guy is, but I love that guy. Yeah. And this is before I knew him. Yeah. I'm liking the character. I know he loves doing that kind of stuff. And it's so, he's really just entertaining himself. And it's just so, he, this is so fun. and he's so creative. I think Will, too, is more serious to you than people would expect. Like we know his big comedy side, but I know his more serious side. And it's so. Yeah, it's a real drag. Yeah, it's awful. No, I know what you mean. Do you know what I mean? I think what's tough and I think it's the same thing with you, too, is people would assume you or Will are just kooky all the time and over the top entertainment machines. And both of you are very soulful. Yeah. Real people. Yes. You have a very serious side to you. Yes. Yes. Very. And do you find that there are people when they first meet you who think they're going to meet the Molly Shin and who's going to throw herself into a bunch of chairs and then they find someone who's really talking to them seriously about an issue? Probably. Yeah, I think I think I am more serious. I really like to get to know people. And if I have time and I think I'm more a one on one and I think I'm shyer than people. But yeah, I do feel that a little bit, too. Yeah. And the whole thing, too, with critics like what you were saying, too, I feel like I'm very conscious, too, of like, God, you could so easily, you know, the whole like show business, such a hustle. And I just don't like getting into that thing of like going back like you're good, you're bad, you're good, you're bad. I think I can really repeat like childhood patterns. And so I try to be healthier. You know, when you think about life and how lucky we are to be healthy, I just I just don't I don't really worry about I try not to get into it. I try not to get into that too much. Don't you think having a family helps? Oh, my God, it helps so much. It's just my everything. Like, I'm just so glad I'm alive to be there and do it. It's it affects every decision in my life. My children. I want to be there. I love being a mom. That's my number one. So it makes showbiz less. I'm very real. I'm pretty late, very laid back about it, I would say. You have. Yeah, you have like a solid foundation, like a solid basement foundation of this is what matters. Yes. Yeah. Other stuff can come and go. Yeah. And I feel like I just don't want to do that to myself, like rile myself up like that, like never feeling good enough or that you're only as good as your last thing. I'm like, oh, enough. You know, I want to I feel like I'm proud of myself and I try not to have to need that so much from the outside. Yeah. Otherwise, it just feels so unhealthy. And I feel like there can be a nice place to be healthy and be creative and not like not not worry too much about that. Yeah. I worked hard in therapy to not rile. I don't want to rile myself up like that. What kind of therapy did you do? I mean, I've done EMDR. And do you know what that is? No, I just said, look like I know what's going on. It's more for like trauma where you do like bilateral stimulation. So if you were nervous, you do the beep, beep, beep, beep, like the little there's like a buzzer where you would you would hold the buzzer and you go back into you would you could pick like supercharged moments in your life, like a top five where you're like and feeling scared. And the bilateral stimulation kind of will bring it from like a 10 to like a three. So you slowly kind of can reprocess this trauma. And so it really it's great. Did you ever do cognitive? Cognitive? I mean, yes, yes. Cognitive is so fascinating because they say if you have a good imagination, it can be great. Or you have also have a great imagination for bad things. Yeah, that's interesting. My career is over. I suck. I'm terrible. Yeah, yeah. All these things David writes to me every day. Yeah. Oh, my God. Every morning. Just little memos. Yeah. But I start to spiral and go down. And one of the things I learned is write it all down on a piece of paper. Yes. Walk away from it for 10 minutes. That's great. Come back and then read the piece of paper. During a worry time. Yeah. Yeah. And you read it and like, I'm the worst person who ever lived. And I go, well, no, Stalin was bad. Oh. Hitler. I mean, yes, I'm bad, but I'm not that bad. And then, you know. You find evidence contrary. Contrary to the beliefs. But also a lot of the things you've written down just look silly. Yes. You know, like they just look ridiculous. And so I find that to be, and it's helped me talk to my kids if they have anxiety. That's wonderful. All these little tools. But I'm always looking for another thing, you know, because you, okay, I've got those tools, but I'm always looking for the next thing. Yes. I love that. I love that kind of stuff, though. But that does make sense, the act of writing it, that you can put it aside. Yeah. And then when you go back. Yeah. And look at it, you're, you know, you're like, yeah, I just, I just read a great book called Social Anxiety for the Overthinker, and it talked about that same thing. And I love that kind of stuff. I talked to myself out loud. One of my kids overheard me. I don't want to talk, they're private and stuff. But I was talking to myself in my office, and that one of them overheard me, and I was like, just going through these files, it was kind of tedious. And I was like, you're doing a great job, Malz, out loud. And one of my kids heard me, and they were like. Yeah, they yelled over the house, you're doing a great job, Malz. But I wasn't aware that I was doing like a kind of Long Island talk, literally talking to myself out loud, telling myself I was doing a good job. And why Long Island, lady? I don't know. It just came out. You're doing a great job, Malz. I love that. But no, I love, I love positive self-talk, creative visualization. I feel like life is hard. Like any tools that can help you. For me, it's exercise. Like I. Yeah, it's huge, yeah. I feel like I'm in great shape, but it's not really about exercise. It's about, it just makes me feel so happy, so good. I sleep better. It just makes me relax. Do you do this? What? Because exercise releases all these endorphins. Yes. And so what I have found is, I'll get on a treadmill, and I'll run really hard. It's like, wow, I just did 40 minutes on the treadmill, really, you know, really going all out, and I'm sweating, and I get off of it, and I'm euphoric. Yeah. I am euphoric. Oh, my gosh. And when I've been on the treadmill, I've had all these ideas. It's like, I'm going to, you know, I'm going to learn how to play the oboe, and I'm going to become a really good oboe player. Like, I'll come up with all these ideas for what I want to do, and I'm going to take a woodworking course, and I'm going to build a sideboard and give it to my wife on our anniversary. It's going to be made out of maple, and then I'll play the oboe while she's open. I'll have all these ideas, and I'll start looking up stuff online, like oboe classes, carpentry classes. Yeah. And then I get in my car, I drive here to the studio, I get to work, and I think, I don't want to do any of that. I don't want to do any of that, because my heart rate came down, and all of this great stuff that gets released. So, I have learned, don't make any calls. Yeah. Don't make any plans after the exercise period. Just wait a little bit. But it feels so good. Yeah, yeah. That is so, I love it. That's great. I love that you have that inspiration, though, while you're exercising. Just don't listen to me. Because I'm going to say, like, you and I should get married. We should leave our spouses and marry each other. And I'm going to take a woodworking course. And I'm going to build you a house, Molly. It's going to be the bestest house you ever saw. That is so funny. And then I get to work, and your husband's like, what the fuck, man? I'm like, sorry, man. I just had a really good exercise session. And I love Molly. Conan, where do you get your work drive from? Like, how did you learn how to do that when you were fresh out of college? Like, is that from college? Is that from your dad or your mom? How did you learn about that? Work was prioritized when I was a kid. But I don't think all of us learned that lesson in my family. But I certainly, I don't know. I decided. I remember kind of thinking, like, in fourth grade. Like, I'm just going to, I didn't know what I was good at. I had no idea that I'd be good at anything. So I just decided, well, if I work really hard, that'll make up for the fact that I'm not good at anything. I remember. I started thinking that. And so I just started. It's not a cool. You started off by saying, oh, I feel so cool. I'm not a cool person. I just worked really hard when I was a kid in a way that makes me a little sad now. I'm really worried about stuff. Yeah. And the way I combated my anxiety was to prepare really hard for things. And then that yielded these benefits. And then people later on said, you're really smart. And I thought, I think I just work really. Really hard. Interesting. So, but I have, I have a work ethic and I like to make things and I like to work with people and make things. And so I think that's, that's kind of just part of who I am now. That's great. Sometimes I think about show business. I'm like, you have to be crazy. It's like, I think like, you know, you're from Boston. I'm from Cleveland. Like, I just think, oh my God, what did I think coming out here and not knowing anybody? Like, you have to be kind of crazy to think that you're going to. Come on. You know, you have to, don't you think? Yeah. No, I do. I mean, if you really were to, if I were to really have known how much work it would be and what I would have to do in the somersaults and backflips and what was going to, I'm like, oh my God, I can't believe I did it. Yeah. You know? No, when I look back. Do you feel that way? Yes, of course. I look back now and I think we graduated from this really good school and I did well. And I was like, okay, well, I'm going to LA with my friend, Greg. We took a People's Express flight out there. Oh my God. I don't know if you know, People's Express was like. If you had no money, you flew People's Express. You gave them some cash. There was no, you know, it was like flying. You give them the credit card on the plane. Yeah. It was like flying a barn. You could get on a barn and fly. They put wings on a barn and you flew to LA. We took a red eye and Greg Daniels, who's gone on to create every great show. He did okay. Yeah, he did. Yeah, he did fine. I go to Greg for loans. We just had this goofy existence, but the only thing I can say is it was like a sandbag. salmon swimming upstream. - Yeah. And did you come out, you guys leased an apartment a year and just did you take jobs while you were taking comedy classes we did uh well we had a we had an entry-level job we had a job at uh this show it was on cable it was on hbo back when if you wanted to watch hbo you checked into a hotel or a motel because no one i knew had hbo yeah but we worked on the show called not necessarily the news and we had a sort of a entry-level job at that but then we would take other jobs um i took some kooky other jobs so did you come out with just a small amount of money too i love your podcast this is did i do what did you come out with like three thousand dollars or did you have how much money did you come out with to la i can't remember what i had i don't i didn't we knew that we had this gig we just didn't know if it was gonna last okay so we were under the impression that we were on like a three-week tryout i think we just didn't know yeah and so we came out very ready to leave or that was what we kind of told ourselves this isn't working we can do something else but i remembered thinking i'm not leaving that's so great i love that and i kept thinking and i kept thinking i just want to have a girlfriend yeah and no one would talk to me uh sweet well this is very sad uh let's talk about the hawk because you and will ferrell are together yes and again which is as it should be will is out there doing all kinds of insane stunts and he's doing all kinds of insane stunts and he's doing all kinds of insane stunts and he's doing all kinds of insane stunts and he's doing all kinds of insane stunts and he's doing all kinds of insane stunts which i love this is the will we love to see he's out there 100 committing to being the hawk yes who is this down and out aging pga golfer yeah and uh you are his ex-wife and tell us a little bit about that relationship i'm kind of frustrated with him because i feel disappointed i'm like oh these nutty golfers and you know i i kind of regret i'm like i just don't i'm being very hard on him and he was great in the past he was great in the past in his glory days but now i'm like oh god i'm so sick of your bullshit you know i'm really tough and i kind of want to do my own thing and not rely on him and i want to pull myself out of this these world of golfers these crazy it's all consuming that world yeah how they can compartmentalize things and and um but we have a son but yeah so but we really do love one another we're just kind of in a little rocky period but we we truly do love one another deep down and we're just kind of in a little rocky and um yeah it's about our relationship our family and we have a son who's a pro golfer and um and who's really good who's really good yes he's excellent so yeah so it's just it's just that whole world and um yeah we had a blast shooting it it was so much fun i am just going to imagine that when you two get together for a project it's right back to could be the third week at snl that you're together exactly it is like that there's a lot of tomfoolery chicanery yes yes yes skullduggery yeah we had one day where we were shooting and there was a little stunt woman who was hired and um her name's sandy gimple but will said he was like molly did you see when sandy was taking a rest on the ground during when we weren't i was like well of course i noticed you know she's like flat on the ground sleeping and we notice the same things that we think are funny or you know it's just it's an absolute joy we talk about our kids i'm really close to will's mom and dad will was really close to my dad it just feels like family in all honesty and will is so professional this is what i always tell people he is the most professional most prepared most thoughtful you know just like he's just the best you better be on your a game because he ferrell is ready to go but see that's another misconception people would see a will ferrell or you molly and they would think well they're just wacky and they get together and they're crazy together and then they roll it they don't understand that there's just an immense amount of preparation and professionalism that's required to get to that space and they're and then there can be some improvisation but that's like the frosting on the cupcake yes exactly he's sitting there and he's like looking at his uh-huh and he can look at the scene and go yeah we could lose that i guess i could cut that you know he's looking at the writing very technically and excellent you know so it is just all those things but he is there before everyone ready to go and memorizes really fast too like he'll have these giant scenes where i'm like wow you you you started memorizing that last night that's hard you know and then he's just a pro yeah and um so it just feels so fun just working working with your friend and it's just it's the greatest i i feel like there's no greater joy than when you get to work with people you love it just doesn't even feel like work that's truly how i feel well that's how it in a it's so many people in the world have to do a job yes that they don't maybe love or have a connection to yeah yeah and uh anyone who gets to do anything like what we're doing and it's not just in the arts or in comedy or entertainment it's just you know people that really love what they do that is the ultimate gift it is the ultimate greatest way to go through life yeah and you should never i think it's so important to not but to enjoy where you are not be like oh i'm only as good as this last thing it's it's it's just i i try to come with age though it comes with age i try to just enjoy like i'm like if you can't be happy i i had a you know when you think about life how precious it is i think i don't want to live like that anymore i i had a my childhood was up and down you're good you're bad you're good you're bad it's like i'm not gonna do that anymore i don't like that this life's too short so what i want to say is yes it makes you appreciate i don't like buying into that you're only as good as your last thing i think if you do work that is meaningful to you and you love it that's all that matters because like i said i've seen people become superstars who feel like they're only as good as their last movie and i'm like i don't want to live like that like if they're like that i should just enjoy my life and i'm like i don't want to live like that like if they're my level where i am because there is do you know what i'm saying of course well there's also there's a lot we can't control yes so if you're quote only as good as your last thing that you did you have very little control over that yeah do you know there have been things i've been involved in that i thought were just the most amazing thing ever and it didn't no one talks to me about it doesn't go anywhere and then there are other things where everyone just loved it and i don't remember the difference there's just other currents things that are happening this is a very i'll say this you came in with this energy okay this i'm not you're not being punished you look very upset no no you can't you come with this energy that i'm just going to call this is going to sound very la and crunchy but you come in with this energy that's very healing true and and very positive uh and i just absolutely uh love talking to you uh you have always been i mean you you came on my show so many times through over the years you would always come on and be just outrageously entertaining but i also knew that you were the highest quality person you really are and so to have you and and you coming in today and just everybody is irradiated in this molly shannon glow yeah it's a it's a lovely thing well you don't thank you conan that means so much well i i feel like i could almost get choked up you know that i feel the same way about you and i remember two years ago you were so nice conan's exactly the same all the time like you treat everyone with respect and kindness and you make everyone feel good you have that ability that gift you were that way with my father but i wanted to say too that um if i get fucked up about comedy or thinking too much about competition or sure everybody has it when he's doing that i just think when i really want to get back to be grounded i think really i do it to make people feel good like i like what people feel happier they're like i love that that all it's about you won't get fucked up it's a it's i'm an entertainer it is a giving it is do you know what i'm saying yeah and if you think about it that way like a service almost then you're not going to be so self-centered about it does that make sense yes and i want to enjoy my life on earth as an artist not be like you know i don't want to be that way competitive or you know what i mean exactly i do know what you mean um but i still want others to fail you know what i'm saying i want people who aren't me in comedy to fail oh my god wait is that not what you know that is the complete opposite i agreed with what molly said and all i'm adding is no no no i want others to fail no you missed the point completely i want to do better not because of my own abilities i want them to fail so that i rise i see you see what i'm saying no still still completely okay well whatever i think we pretty much said the same thing okay conan listen getting back to the irish thing my irish thing was that my dad could be tough you know this and that my mom died when i was little so much of me getting into it was a bit of a painful thing like my dad really would have loved to have been an actor my mom died i thought well if i get famous enough i'll bring my mom back from the dead it was very sad stuff yeah yeah and i still have to ask myself do you really still want to do this is this really you do you do you you know i really have to check in with that you know but that's my point going back to the irish stuff of it was it had some dark stuff of course it does you know what i mean really dark do you really but also of course i do yeah yes there's also the am i doing this because in some way i'm not well like what's the whole wanting to make everyone laugh is there an unhealthy part of this is there a part of this which is uh revenge like i can make everyone happy because maybe some people weren't happy but now i'll make everyone happy and is this unhealthy and if you get healthy to Does that mean you can't do this anymore? Yeah. All the dark stuff. I had, I just got my star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame. Yes, and congratulations. Thank you. And Will gave the speech. Will gave the speech. That's great. That was so nice. But I was going to say, I get very shy when people have to show up for me. That makes me shy. I can go be a celebrity by myself, alone, but if people have to come for me, I get like, oh God, I'm going to disappoint you. Or even at SNL. Will would always bring tons of friends to the show. He'd have like, oh, you know, he has so many friends. And I was always like, I would prefer strangers because I felt like if a friend's going to come, they're going to get disappointed and they're going to want to leave. This is me. I mean, everything you're saying is if there's a thing where people, which hasn't happened a lot, but something like the Twain Award where people come for Conan O'Brien, I was mortified, really mortified that like people, I don't want people to have to get, no, they're flying in. They're flying in. No. And they're going to prepare. They have to prepare stuff. And I had done it for other people and felt fine doing that because I loved the people I was showing up for. Yeah. But I couldn't see it the other way. So I was kind of mortified. And then everything you're saying, I always, when I was doing the late night show or any show and people were like, yeah, and guess what? Your friends, I'm like, no, no. What do you mean they're here? Oh no. Now the show has to really be good. Yeah. Because if it's a stranger, it's like, there's nothing, you know? Yeah. When I would do SNL, if I did invite a friend, I have to give them a list of rules. I was like, don't, you know, cause they'd be like more Molly. And I was like, oh my God, like really don't, you're just going to make me feel bad. So I had, I had like a list of rules, like save it. You can't say this. Like I already am hard on myself. Like, so no more, more Molly in the show. It's like my least favorite is occasionally there's an etiquette when you come off a show. I know first of all, you're always going to be great, but no matter what, oh my God, great show Molly. That's what you do. And that's what you would say to me. If I came off stage, I love people that come up and go, how do you think it went? Oh my God. Yeah. How do you think it went? I don't know. I'm just curious what you thought. Oh, well, I guess I should get out of the business. All right. We have to wrap this up. Okay. But Molly, uh, I adore you. I love you. You're so great. And you live in this neighborhood. So can we get lunch? Wouldn't that be nice? Let's do a lunch sometime. Yes. It will be very serious. Serious. No joking, Conan. I'm going to break you down. No bits. No bits. No bits. It's like a, it's like a no shoes, no shirt, no service. No bits. Can you do it? I think I could do it. It will be deadly serious. So get ready. It's going to be my dinner with Molly. Like my dinner with, it's just going to be the same thing. Like serious. All right. This was a joy, a pleasure. You, I love this office. Oh. Conan, what could be better? Everyone loves you. I mean, this is so, thank you so much. More on that. No, everybody loves you. Thank you guys so much. It's a Molly Shannon day is a fun day. I've tried to start shit, you know, start saying, I've said shit about you to try and get negative stuff out there and it doesn't take. No, no, no. Knowing people, I'm just like, you know, Molly Shannon. I think she's kind of like, no, what? Yeah. He talks so much shit about you. Yeah. And it doesn't take. It won't take. That's hysterical. I'm going to try again later today. Yeah. Good luck. All right. Thank you for having me. Wow. Yes. My assistant, David Hopping, has entered the room and you have an announcement to make, you said? Yes. So, um. I do not know what this is, by the way. Oh, you're, I think, I think you're going to like it. So. Your doctor just called. Every once in a while. And he says the tests are back and you're hilarious. No. Okay. So every once in a while, I will get tagged. I'm going to get tagged in different TikToks about Conan. And last night I opened up TikTok and I had like a bunch of notifications. So I clicked it. And we all know Toy Story 5 just came out and you play Smarty Pants. There is an entire side of TikTok that find themselves attracted to Smarty Pants. And it's not like just a few. These videos have like over 100,000 likes each. And all the comments are about how weird it is to be attracted to a potty training toy. What? And I sent Eduardo some of them to pull up to show you. Oh. Let's check this out. Multiple levels. Ew. Hold on. Oh, God. It says, it says, hear me out. 148,000 likes on that video. Oh, my God. Excuse me. Does it not occur to you that maybe this was my intention when I brought this character to life? No kidding. Yeah. Walk us through your process. Well, I have a lot of riddles. I think it's what the kids say. Is that right, Sona? I don't know. I'm not well. You're not well? This is so gross and disturbing. This is like. I didn't see this one coming. I have to be honest. No, this is. I tried to. You guys say, I tried for a second to go with it. Yeah. And be like, yeah. And then I realized I can't. Oh, there's more? Oh, here we go. Here we go. Here we go. You want Smarty Pants? Oh, God. No. Oh, the internet needs to go away. I know you're not supposed to kink shame, but shame on you. No. Yeah. For this, we can kink shame. Really? This is kink shameable. You are a potty training toy in a children's movie. And people are like, what are we doing? Like, there's so many hot cartoon characters out there. David. Oh, you do tell. There's a lot of hot cartoon characters out there. Are you saying. So you're saying it's not just that I'm a cartoon character. It's that there are other far more worthy. Yes. Sexual. Yes. Let's hear who they are. Off the top of my head. I mean, this is not in a cartoon. But recently I was reading a comic book and I was like, when did Superman get like this hot? Like, there's been a lot of illustrated characters I have responded to recently. I just I can't think off the top. But not fucking Smarty Pants. Not that. That is ridiculous. I'm sorry. You can't see it. What about there's a section where Smarty Pants has my hair? You know, it's a. It's a dream sequence. A fantasy sequence. Are you asking me if them adding one of your characteristics makes it more attractive to me? That's my. Yes. Yes, Senator. That is my question. The answer is a hard no. And it's. It's even. The gentleman from Boston will yield his time. I yield my time and I also ask for a weapon to kill myself. I know that doesn't usually happen in a Senate subcommittee hearing. No. But if there's a weapon. If there's a weapon present, I will use it. We'll go into a warm bath. Arrested. No, that's weird. OK, so. I don't know. No. David, give us your thoughts, because, you know, you discovered this. I was shocked whenever I clicked on it to see what this was. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I don't know what to say. The world is not well. No. I mean, there's hot cartoon characters. Again, you keep saying that. I think we can all agree Jessica Rabbit is a hot broad. We all want to bang. Right. And then I. Like, even me. And I think that there's hot cartoon characters. You think you are a hot cartoon character? Oh, yeah. No, I want to bang her. But I'm saying there's hot cartoon characters. You are a pod train toy. We've got to think of another one. Who's another hot cartoon character? David, you're probably thinking of someone. Any of the, like. Well, I think I just had a stroke. Now we're going to take a look into your psyche. Well, like, Skeletor. Skeletor. Like, He-Man can get it. He-Man? Yeah. He can get it? Sure. Scarlet from G.I. Joe. Are you saying. Yes. Are you saying He-Man fucks? Yeah. I think He-Man fucks. Oh, He-Man fucks. Guess what? Skeletor fucks. Skeletor doesn't fuck. Yeah. Skeletor. Jared Leto playing Skeletor? He fucks, unfortunately. Unfortunately. Skeletor is DTF. Yeah. Yeah. He bones. He bones. There you go. Nicely done. Nicely done, Blaine. No, I remember my friend had a thing for Gambit from X-Men. That, like, he's hot. That's a cartoon character? Yes. From X-Men. Gambit. But I just, I, this, this, this is one of those things. Where you're like, people don't need to post everything on the internet. Because he's not a human. That's the, that's the problem. You're not a human. He's a machine. He's for kids. Is he kind of a childlike? Well, I think he has many of my qualities. So, yeah, probably a little bit childlike. It's just on many levels. I don't know. Like, I would do Woody before I did Smarty Pants, I think. All I know. Or Buzz Lightyear for sure can get it. All I know is that a Vance. All I know is you can get him if you just go to the store. I only know. I only know. For ranking the Toy Story 5. All I know is that a minivan packed with Disney lawyers. On the way. Is driving from Anaheim to this podcast studio right now at 110 miles an hour. And you know what? Anyone who goes to see Toy Story 5, the day after this comes out. Yeah. Is going to see just, just pixels where I used to be. And a burn mark on the screen. I think that's for the. For the best. We lost any chance of you being in the sixth one. Actually, anybody that goes to see the movie is going to be put on a sex offender list from here on out. And has to go door to door in their neighborhood. No, they're going to stop the film the minute my character is about to come up and go, all right, you perverts. We got you. Clear out. Clear out. Raid. Vice raid. Clear out. You in the raincoat. Get out. Oh, God. Oh, my God. No, even, even Wally before Smarty Pants. I have a list. Can I say? I have a list. Now you're just being mean. No, I'm not. Wally. Yeah. Wally is like sentient. And he got Eve. And sensual. wool apparently yes no he got he landed eve there's like a thing to him there's a there's a sensitivity you know what i'm gonna there's nothing about your character that's just what are you talking about i'm i'm adorable i mean you're talking about peepee and poopoo most of the time a lot of your humor is like i based him on you i saw what the character was when i said oh you want the sona okay this is happening those people up there putting this upper into some weird shit yeah uh well listen uh i think the only way to decide this matter is for everyone to go see toy story 5 in theaters now the biggest and guess what the van just turned around the van just turned around it just did a hard 180 and it's headed back to the magic castle oh my god uh all right uh peace out conan o'brien needs a friend with conan o'brien you sonam of sessian and matt gorley produced by me matt gorley executive produced by adam sacks jeff ross and nick leo theme song by the white stripes incidental music by jimmy vivino take it away jimmy our supervising producer is aaron blair and our associate talent producer is jennifer samples engineering and mixing by eduardo perez and brendan burns additional production support by mars melnick talent booking by paula davis gina batista and brick khan you can rate and review this show on apple podcasts and you might find your review read on a future episode got a question for conan call the team coco hotline at 669-587-2847 and leave a message it too could be featured on a future episode you can also get three free months of sirius xm when you sign up at siriusxm.com slash conan and if you haven't already please subscribe to conan o'brien needs a friend wherever fine podcasts are downloaded you