Modern Masculinity, Feminism, & Raising Boys in 2026

Thank you to Quince for sponsoring this portion of today's episode. Let me tell you the seasons are changing. It's starting to be time that we can get out our denims again. We can get out our sweaters and there is no better place than Quince. So many of the things I'm constantly reaching for in my closet to layer up, dress up, dress down, come from Quince because they have very, very high quality products. I'm talking 100% Mongolian cashmere. They have silk organic cotton wool. They have those premium fabrics but at an amazing price. Everything at Quince is actually priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands and that is because they work directly with ethical factories, cutting out the middle man so you're paying for high quality, not brand markup. Actually just last night Matt was telling me that he grabbed his shorts. I don't fit my clothes. I've been hitting the gym and so I need new clothes. He bought me Quince swim trunks that are really high quality. I wear them all the time when we go on the pool with the boys. I'm excited to see which he picks out from Quince for me next. Your nice khaki shorts are from Quince. Wait the khaki that I wear like literally every day. Yep those are from Quince. You don't even know where your clothes are from but if you had to guess they're probably from Quince because I love shopping their min section as well for Matt. You can wear them in many different ways for many different seasons. Find your next fall favorites at Quince. Download the Quince app for app exclusive offers or go to Quince.com. Get free shipping on your order and 365 day returns now available in Canada and the UK too. And when Quince asks you where you heard about them let them know that unplanned sent you. It's the best way to support the show. If a guy hurts you let's not extend that to the entire gender. My two and my three year old are building their sense of self right now. It's here like I hate men, men are the worst and then be like there's something wrong with me. I'd never want that to happen. There's all these men right now that feel like they're failing because they're not providing financially for their family as much as their wife and that is the S. There's so much more to providing for your family than financial. We want men. We want masculine men but I think that in 2026 we need to redefine healthy masculinity especially as our roles have changed society. What's up dudes and welcome back to unplanned. Is that fun? Should we rebrand the unplanned with just like the one word unplanned? I've actually wanted to do that for a while and I've gotten nervous. I don't know why but I think it'd be kind of fun just to just set unplanned. I think we I think we should do it. Do you guys approve it? Let us know in the comments. Speaking of the comments everyone that's been leaving reviews we really appreciate you that helps us so much. That's like a free way you can support the show by just telling people why you like it on Spotify or Apple and then especially another freeway is just subscribing if you're listening on YouTube. The subscribe button really helps us out. We're actually trying to hit a million subscribers this year and if we do I think we need to do something special for our team because we're growing. We're trying to make better videos. What are we doing right now? We're at 800 something thousand. Oh yeah. 830 thousand I think. We can do it. So I don't know. I've seen other podcasts where they like throw a party for their team or they take their team on a trip. Maybe we'll take our team on a trip if we hit if we hit that number. We should make a goal too for always here because I I don't know. I think I just want to celebrate that and I want to be around for a while because it's fun connecting with you guys. It's fun interviewing the guests that we have on these shows. I can't believe we get to sit down with the people that we get to sit down with but we got a very exciting conversation today. Abby what are we talking about today? Well a couple years back. Gosh it's been two years at this point I think right? No it was three years ago. Three years ago. Wow the time is time is illusion at this point. But we had posted a clip from this podcast where I was just you know running my mouth. We are literally living in a man hating culture and as a mother to a son that makes my heart really sad. My son. Watch me. Oh it's okay. It's okay. You got this. You got this. I would hope that my son could grow up and there could be males and females uplifting him and rooting him on and not hating him for his gender or you know like thinking a certain way about him because he's a man. Let's actually get into this conversation. What's the context? Let's get into it because here's my thing. I am so pro women. I love women and yeah I'm the biggest girls girl. Like I'm just I just I'm gonna take a girl's side if we're if we're totally honest. You we really are absolutely. I will publicly take a girl's side but then quietly put them aside and be like okay I've heard you say like I just like women are just better than men. Yeah. Yeah. I have said that. You know that's okay. Are you sexist? Yes you but that's okay. I mean like I fully support your belief that women are better than men. Let me get my thoughts out. I'm okay with you believing that. I want to fully acknowledge that like women that have been hurt by men. Like I that that angers me so so so much. Oh yeah. That that fully those men should be held accountable that are abusive that are dominating that are just completely inconsiderate. Like there's just so many things that's like that that fully enrages me. Especially when it comes to assault too. Like some of these instances you just look into what happens if you watch documentaries on abuses of that. It's just it's sick. It's I can't even watch it half the time. That makes me so mad. And so I want to recognize that the people that are feeling I think there's two categories of people that I be as like man hating. And like I want to fully recognize that a big population is people that have been hurt by men by boyfriends by husbands by men misusing their power. Yeah. And also their fathers that breaks my heart. The fact that the role of a father to a daughter like that that can start as disgusting. And so I want to recognize that like a lot of that can start from literally an infant with when you have a terrible view of your father. They were not a good role model to you. They represent your dad represents so much to you. Like even as you grow up into an adulthood you're like this. This is the person that is like kind of setting a standard. Now like we can change that standard as we get older half there. We have new experiences that are better. But like there's so much there. The other category of I want to put in quotes man hate. If that's not appropriate someone tell me to say that. But I honestly feel like that's just kind of how I'm interpreting it personally is people that are reacting to society now in this over correction. The people that are just like now a part of like it's okay now like I'm telling you I cannot tell you how many times a day where it's like I hate men. Women say that all the time I hate men are the worst. I hate men. What's an example of that? Like why women feel that way? Pull up Instagram right now. Just fill me in like what's what's something that you see on your on social media. I don't scroll social media. I play video games now instead like in my doom scroll is playing video games which is just as bad if not worse. I literally my screen time's like zero. It's been take a drink every time Abby gets the dick right now. No it's funny like we used to I used to brag about I was like yeah Abby things video games are a huge turn off and just just like the past six months up and like you've been playing with your brother. I love gaming with my bros literally my brothers. But what I'm saying is that now at least for me what I see in other women you can comment down below if you see the same thing too or if you don't then also like feel for this can be a discussion. I'm not offended by this also. This is just how I'm interpreting the society that we're living in. And so but the other is like now it's like okay for people to say like literally women to say I hate men. It's actually like totally okay and men are supposed to just sit there and be like yeah but we're like if a man were to say I hate women we'd all be like yeah you get burned at the stake. No but it was just now it wasn't a clip that it's just not and I recognize like this is a tale is all this time where something is wrong and we finally recognize that as a society and then it's pitchforks and then we're back at the other side of this. Can I be a devil's advocate? Of course. I feel like so the pendulum swung too far in one side now it's swinging too far to the other side to like over her act. Totally. But I think that's warranted like I think a pendulum needs to keep swinging until it slows down it slows down and then eventually it's it stops. I'm speaking though as a mom who has a two and a three-year-old boy at the time that this pendulum is swinging on this side. Yeah okay. And so my little boys are hearing I hate men men are the worst we don't need men we don't need blah blah and and I'm and here's the thing Matt. This is reflected in data. So like I I scat Scott Galloway does a lot of I was actually the first thing that actually put words to the things that I was like feeling and noticing in society was when Scott Galloway I'm pretty sure that was who was on Scott Galloway. Yeah he was on direct CEO. This conversation was not I don't necessarily like once again I don't necessarily agree with every single thing on there or feel the same way about things but like this finally put words and data to things that I was experiencing and feeling and noticing in society. Which we would love to have Scott on the pod go spam Scott to DMs if you want to want to monitor podcast. If enough people seriously guys like best what's crazy about your influence on who we interview like if you guys really want us to interview someone let us know like like the comment make the comment go to the top and we will we can get them on the pod like if if enough of you especially reach out to them because you want to see them on here is going to happen because you got like you the people are so powerful so thanks everybody for watching and and I we've listened everything you said to us so thank you. So let's go back like 50 years so not during our lifetime but like the very beginning of our parents especially our grandmas like their experience they did not have access to information like they do now not at all they needed to get married for financial security which is so sad imagine getting married to a subpar man just because it was a means of survival. Here's the fact that women in the United States legally gained the ability to open bank accounts apply for credit cards and obtain with out a male co-signer with the passage of the Equal Credit Opportunity Act in 1974. That was not that long ago. - Abby, that's goodness. That's about 50 years. - And look what women have done in that amount of time. - 50 years and women have 52 years to be exact. Holy crap. - That's what I'm saying, like it's something that I feel like amends pride for women for. Like look what we've done in 50 years since we've gotten, we've gotten these. It's like, literally it's like to finally allow to say and it's like look at what we've done. Women can succeed, but we don't have to crush women beneath our feet to do so. - That's good. - Like there's space for both of us and I feel like that. - Abundance mentality, that's what that is. You have this abundance mindset. - Sorry for interrupting. - No, you're good, keep talking. - There's all these men right now that feel like they're failing because they're not providing financially for their family as much as their wife. And that is BS. You can do so, so much. And I think if you view it as like whatever it is as a man that you're doing to give back to your wife and your kids, that's all that matters. It doesn't matter if it's money. 'Cause if your wife makes the money, cool. Are you loving your kids or are you showing them a good example of what a man is for the future, for what you want future them to be? Okay, that's your number one goal right there. And if you're doing that, that's all the providence your kids need. Yes, and I feel like that is where my heart in this issue truly lies. Not wanting to crush our son's masculinity. Like I want to build that up. I want them to be masculine. I want our boys to be masculine. But I think that in 2026, that needs to be redefined because we've talked about throughout this entire episode, this pencil has been swinging. So when our parents and our grandparents, it was like men, your job is to provide financially to put the roof over their head to be a fierce protector. Maybe even this was misdefined in some ways as dominance or there's some of those harmful parts of it too, where it was like, what you say you go, everyone has to just bow down and listen. It's just like dangerous assertiveness. Whereas now we need to redefine healthy masculinity, especially as our roles have changed in society. Because now that women are more educated and I'm talking in general, more educated and making more money, there's a different role for you are more educated than me and you make more money than me. That warrants a redefinition of masculinity. Because now it's proven, men in their 20s are floundering. And actually a lot of Scott Galloway's messaging is geared towards men in their 20s, because what are they to find in them as? Basically unmariable men. They really just are lost. His big thing is he's saying that young men are facing a severe overlooked crisis with really high rates of addiction, loneliness and failure to launch. And he actually cites at men or 12 times more likely to be incarcerated than women and four times more likely to die by suicide. - Which is actually really, really sad, when you think about it. - Of course it is, that's heartbreaking. - Can you imagine one of our sons being incarcerated or like taking their own life? Like can you imagine? Like that's a problem with men. It's really sad, I think. Really what men need more of, which I think there's stuff that women can do to support men. But I think if we're going to talk about men for a second, think what men need more of is to go to therapy, talk about their feelings, not ignore them, not like just disregard them. I think it's so toxic this idea that like men can't cry. I'm like starting to embrace more of my like emotions now that I'm older, but I feel like I don't know what it was. I know if it was society, my parents, my community, I don't know what it is, but as a man, I still feel like it's weak and not masculine to cry. But I think I'm learning, I think I'm learning that it's okay to embrace those emotions. And I think really women want emotionally intelligent men. They don't want these men that just completely ignore all feeling. Now I think women want a safe man. They want a man that provides comfort and maturity and like just confidence that everything's going to be okay. But along with that, though, they need their men to be emotionally intelligent or most women to generalize, most women want that. Well, yes, because the fact is it's like now that women don't need men to literally have a roof over their head to achieve any type of status in life or any type of thing, you know what I mean? Like they used to need to basically ride on the backs of men. Yeah, you literally don't need me. You could divorce me. But the fact is that women are still choosing to marry because we want men. Like we want good men. We want masculine men. But we need to have this redefinition and we need to have this conversation. And I can recognize we're saying like this is a man hating world can come across as like not fully understanding the breadth of where this comes from. And so that's why it's important to have these conversations and understand the nuance related to it. But the fact is Matt is that college educated women still tend to get married. They just get married a little bit later in life. About 20 to 25% of college educated women marry men with less education. And I'm sure that's going to continue to grow. I think we're going to see this gap more and more. That's you. That's our sister-in-law Addy. She has her master's. Your brother doesn't have a master's. I didn't graduate. You did. And like my mom, that's my parents' baby. My mom is a civil engineer. She's extremely intelligent. I guess they both graduated degrees, but my mom's degree was twice as hard as my dad's. 10 times more hard. I don't know. Yeah, I think there's definitely a trend there, for sure. Yeah, but women are still choosing to get married. Thank you to Zockdog for sponsoring this portion of today's episode. Raise your hand if you've been putting up a dental cleaning and annual checkup, or honestly any kind of doctor's appointment. Yeah, my hands up to this shit we're doing things differently. 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Thank you, Zockdog, for sponsoring this message. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. We're taking a moment to celebrate women in all that they carry at work and relationships and families and all the many roles that they hold every day. Women do so much for others and it's really important that you're also taking that time to fill yourself up and take care of yourself and an investment I've made in my own self and improving myself and taking care of myself has been therapy. Which by the way, I feel like I haven't said this enough. I'm so proud of you for going to therapy. That's not easy, it's hard. It's hard, but BetterHelp makes it just a little bit easier because with over 30,000 therapists, BetterHelp is one of the world's largest online therapy platforms having served over six million people globally. BetterHelp does the initial matching work for you so you can focus on your therapy goals. 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But let's not extend that to the entire gender. - Yeah, I actually like to see Swift a lot. - We have learned not to generalize across many different categories, like ability, race, age, all these things. Yet, gender is the one where now it's okay to generalize, but only with men. That's where I'm coming from. Where it's like, can you have a terrible experience with somebody, with a person? And it's like, well, he's a dude. It's because he's a man. And it's like, this isn't, it's not fair. That's not right. That's not even true. And so that's where my concern is, like, with having a two and a three year old, as we're, as we're, this pendulum is swinging this day. Like, my two and my three year old are building their sense of self right now. They're, they're internal dialogue. Who they are, how they fit in this world. What their role is. And that's all that is forming right now at this snapshot in time, where the pendulum is over here. That's my concern. That's why I'm speaking out about it, you know what I mean? It's not because I'm like, I'm disregarding. I don't want to disregard women. I just don't think that we have to put down men to bring up women. We are up. We are thriving. We are doing amazing. And so it's like, but it doesn't have to come at the cost. of men in my opinion. - So how do you as a mom of two boys direct them to be good men? How do you point them in the right direction? 'Cause it's kind of confusing if you tell your kid, don't be this, don't be this, don't be this. - No, that doesn't work. - So what do you point them towards? - That's the thing actually with our parenting that I'm always trying to redirect. I catch myself doing it a lot where I'm like, stop. Don't know, don't, like all those things where it's like, that's really confusing for them. Like don't do this, well then what am I supposed to do? And so they might continue to do that behavior 'cause you're just like, stop, no, no. And then, so now I'm always trying to redirect my discipline towards them to say like, do this, do this, we are this. And so that's more clear I feel like. And I've talked about this before, but we have like a family mantra and I really feel like this has been very beneficial to us and all sorts of misbehaviors are behaviors that we wanna redirect. And that is howards are. And then we've continued to add, we have howards are patient, howards are kind and howards are generous. So as we're like the first we started off with because it was just like a lot of the early misbehaviors you see in toddlers which are like, first of all patients, it's like mom, no, no, no, no, no, no. And so it's like, oh, howards are patient, try that again. And then they'll say like, excuse me. And we really, we really are very gentle with that 'cause we know that they need some gratification right away. But just patient became obvious, kind became really obvious 'cause I feel like hitting and just like general like yelling, nastiness, like that's impulsive that every human does. And so that kindness kind of covered a lot of those bases and then also generous because sharing is like really hard for little kids. And so those really helped. We've since extended it to gentle because also we're raising boys. And I feel like we can't deny the fact that like raising little boys is different from raising little girls, like they, it doesn't fit in one box always. But in a lot of experiences with little boys, like they're more prone to routiness, to being physical with their bodies, to wrestling. - Wait, what's the song? It goes, the fruit of the spirit is love, joy, peace. Patience, kindness, goodness, gentleness, driving a self-control. Again, some, there is no wrong. - Doesn't that it? - Never heard that in my life. That's beautiful. - You've never heard that jangle. - That's beautiful, let's use that. - I went to private crush school. - Well, my start was saying that. - So I feel like, but I feel like those are like some timeless principles that you pull from. - For sure, that's definitely where I pull these from. - Yeah. - So we added gentleness. - That's what we need to be gentle. - We added gentleness because. - Especially when it comes to girls. - And I love that you do that. And I think that's great. And I think that's also how we're raising good boys. - Does that make me toxic that I go? We do not hit, but especially not girls. So you said that one time I was like, Matt, keep that, that's great. Because I think it's great that our boys are instilled with a sense of protectiveness over females. I think that's great. And that is a really great example of healthy masculinity. Like they're protective over them. This doesn't mean that we dominate them. We're cruel towards them. We flex our muscles over them. Or like we protect them. That is our role. And I think that's beautiful as a woman. I am very happy and pleased to feel protected by you. And like I think that this has just been twisted so much. And it's been misused. And men have over and certain men in the past have messed this up that we've made to think that that's a bad thing. - And I feel like another thing that can be like, quote unquote toxic in a more quote unquote traditional marriage is like men loving being served by their wife. But I think that that like word of service can mean so many things. And I think it only comes if you're being a respectful man. I think where this like deep distrust from men comes is women that would like serve their husband. But their husband wasn't serving them back. - Right. - And that is very toxic and very harmful. - And that service can look different. - And up until recently women could not speak up. - Oh, totally. Women could not bank accounts in America until the 70s. Which was 52 years ago. - So many more things. - So voting, gosh, my great grandpa was born in 23 and I think my great grandma. - Why didn't you leadership? - I think my great grandma was born in 24. And so I want to say goodness was she born? When did women get the right to vote and do it? - She used Google Matt. It was 19. - When did women get the right to vote? 19, 19? - I think so. - 1920. - Okay. - Women gained the right to vote in the United States in 1920 with the eradication of the 19th amendment to the United States Constitution. It states that the right to vote cannot be denied based on sex and that was babe. That's literally a hundred years ago. - But we give up that. - A hundred and six years ago. - That's the year they got the right to vote. Think about how long it takes to change laws and practices and women to eventually be in roles of leadership in our politics. Let me add to our other howards are and that is howards are obedient. Because I also think that it's really important for boys and girls, but I think maybe even more so boys to know that like you have to fall under something. Does that make sense? - Yeah. - Like you have to be obedient to someone bigger than you, someone higher than you. - Yeah, a rule book. There's a rule book for you to fall. - There's rules for you to fall. - And I think honestly these rules are pretty universal. Like I think if you ask people what it looks like to be a good person, if you look at belief systems across cultures, 99% of the stuff is the exact same. And that's why I was asking AI babe, I was like, help me understand what's going on here because there's clearly like a tension that exists right now in the world. And I asked Chatsby T, why is there a tension between wanting to raise strong confident men and the societal pressure that often labels traditional male traits as toxic. And it says it's because there's two different cultural reactions that are happening at the same time. Societies trying to correct past problems with masculinity. But in doing so, it sometimes creates confusion about the health, what healthy masculinity looks like. But the reality is like these big reactions, they stem from reaction to genuine harm. Like initially this was because of genuine harmful behavior by men with aggression, with emotional suppression, dominance, intimidation. And then it just kind of equated some people to the thinking of like manhood as control or violence and just these like negative traits. I don't know. You can talk more about this. - Yes, those things are bad. But boys today still need to have leadership skills. - Yes. - Boys today still need to have confidence. Boys today still need to, they needed then and they especially need it now, emotional regulation. And so that's where I feel like this conversation needs to shift towards, like I keep saying, like what does masculinity look like this year? - It makes me so happy. When ever our boys are struggling with anger, when I hear them start to do their breathing exercises. - Yeah. - It's so cute. - That's really why I'm very specific about having them name how they feel. - Yeah. - And it's not because I'm like some fluffy parent. - Like fairy godmother, you're not crunchy, you're not a hippie. - Well no, you're very white mom from Illinois, from the Midwest. - That's not true. - What's wrong with that? I think that's so sweet. - No, but I think it's very important that they name their emotions. And so this is where that emotional regulation comes from. - Okay. - So when I hear them, like we've been experiencing a lot in our household is when they're experiencing anger when you're growling, or obviously it can escalate to like lashing out. And so we always say our line all the time is like, you can be angry, but you can't be mean. - Can we just talk about how we have a growling problem in our house? - We have a growling problem in our house. - You did the growling. Why did you first notice the growling? - It's honestly been fairly recent. - What, like was it two weeks ago that I've just noticed a consistent thing with growling? - And then we had a conversation between the two of us where it was like, is this something we correct? And I feel like it's not something we necessarily correct. It's more of like, we help them name it and understand what they're experiencing. - Yeah. - So now when they grow, I'm like, are you feeling angry? - Yeah. - And I'm like, what's the problem? - Rather than attacking our kin, being like, stop growling. - Stop growling, stop growling, we need not grow. Growers don't grow. No, we're just like, hey, how are you feeling? - It's a problem with your outfit. - What's going on? - Yeah. - Like, are you feeling angry? - And maybe given, maybe like, hey, we're gonna, let's, we're gonna do, we're gonna breathe together, okay? Rainbow breath, here we go. One, two, three, four, like, you know, counting slowly. - Yeah, they do take deep breaths. - And I love it when I go, wow, I feel better now. And they go, I feel better. - I feel better. - And then they'll like, I feel better. And they do, they actually feel better. - Take a breath, we will have them. Oh, sometimes we're like, do you just need to take, like take a break? You wanna go do something by yourself for a little bit? - It's so funny, Abby is like, these simple skills we're teaching our kids. Sometimes we're like, man, this works for adults, you know? - Same principle as a plot. - Breathing, doing some breathing exercises when you're stressed. Like, maybe rather than, you know, if you're like, a wine mom or a beer dad, like on a Friday night, when you're like, I am so over, this crap's going on. Like, you're like, unwinding with, you know, a substance. Like, you know, you could just do a breathing technique with the same result, seriously, seriously though. - I'm pretty sure the choir here. - A lot of time. - Have it drinks a lot, you know? So I'm just, never, literally don't, I'm not interested in it. But, you told me that you were gonna never drink alcohol. And then I, I'm so bad, I got you to drink champagne with me on our honey moon. And then you've been hooked ever since. - That's not true. - You're not curving up all the way. - That's not true, that's not even funny. But, so also I think about like, if we're leaving a place our kids are having a lot of fun. It's not uncommon for them to like. throw themselves on the ground, you know, big reactions. And so help instead of just getting on that behavior, they keep things interesting. - I'm first like urging myself to like reminding myself to just be like, hey, are you feeling disappointed? 'Cause it's like, man, I hate leaving a place that I'm having a lot of fun at. And just like trying to help them understand what they're experiencing emotionally in their bodies. - Abby sometimes I wonder my purpose in these conversations 'cause I literally can just hand you the mic and you can do a TED talk. - That's not true. - You're such a good speaker. I think it, 'cause I don't know, even I'll like review, I'll do editorial review of our podcast. And I'm like, I'm just speaking some stupid stuff and you're out here like just dropping line after line. - No, no, no, no, no. But what I'm saying is that it's really important for me that my boys understand their thoughts. Because I do already notice a difference. This is just my experience. But I do already notice a difference in my two and three-year-old boys and then our friends that have two and three-year-old girls. - Oh yeah, and that crazy? Like just the nature of boys and girls acting completely different. - This is, and here's the thing. Why does it feel, it shouldn't feel scary for me to say this publicly. - Yeah, wait, why is it, don't feel me, fill me in on why it's scary. I'm not freaking- - Well, I'm just saying it feels that way to, it feels scary to recognize like there is a developmental difference between little boys and little girls. - But why is there? - Well, just 'cause the subject of gender is very touchy and very sensitive. And it's deeply personal. But I'm just speaking from our experience of watching our little boys grow up next to little girls. And I always describe it as this is also such a big generality. - Yeah. - We have friends that have little boys that are very, very sensitive and very emotional, very emotional, very gentle. - Yeah. - Like all these things that we typically ascribe to femininity. - Yeah. - And they're very much a little boy too. - So they're okay with it. - But I'm just saying, I'm speaking in general terms here. But I'm noticing, this is the best way that I can generalize the difference I notice. So say one of our kids gets hit. One of our boys gets hit. - What do you mean hit? Oh, like they're fighting. - A friend hit, a friend hit them. Ouch. That part of their body that they got hit hurts. And then as soon as it stopped stinging, they're back to playing. Whereas I've noticed more in general, our friends have little girls that are two and three. Like they get hit and then it stops stinging but they're still crying because now their feelings are also hurt. Like their friend chose to hurt them. Like their friend used their body to harm them. And I'm noticing that that doesn't necessarily play as big of a role at this moment with our specific boys and some of my other friends that have had boys. - So you're a lot more emotionally intelligent than me and way more mature than me. So I'm gonna ask you this question because I feel like you would know the answer. You're giving me this, I'm not an extra question. - No, but I just feel like you, I don't know, you're just smarter than me. Anyway, a question. How do you raise emotionally intelligent masculine men? Like, yeah, strong leaders but then at the same time recognize that they're gay kids out there. And you. - This has nothing to do with sexuality, in my opinion. - Really? So like do you raise, if you have a gay son, do you raise them to be masculine? Like what, I don't even know what the answer is for that. - Yeah. - How do you raise, I don't know. - Because this just shows how you were raised with such a rigid view of masculinity in my opinion. - Ooh, Frick, damn. (laughing) I really was, gosh dang it. - Yeah. - And I'm not, this isn't a critique of your parents. This was the times. - And I don't know why that is. - And this is me saying that the times are now different. And here's the thing, if we don't change it, men are falling behind. That is like what we said earlier with Scott Galloway, like with how men are not, they're falling behind. And he has all these factors that attribute to that. But let me get to your question. First of all, I am no expert. I have a two and a three year old. Let me just say this right now, my boys are little. They are not men. And there's, I'm not a good case study to say like, oh, I know how to raise men. I'm still, I'm just figuring this out. And I just wanna figure it out in real time with real parents of little kids. And so like I just think that this should be a conversation. These are the conversations I'm having with my friends all the time. And so like there's something that I'm interested in talking about also on our platforms. But what I'm saying is like, first of all, I don't know. Let's just start by saying that I'm no expert in this area. But the first, my first knee jerk response to you asking that question is that empathy needs to specifically be talked intentionally with boys. Empathy, like really, really working on that. And so like with our kids, and I've noticed a lot of my friends doing this too. So I've like learned this from them. It's like, okay, like you, for instance today, one of our boys got in a physical altercation. Oh my gosh, I don't know this. It's on like them. That happened today. It's on like them. But you know, they're. That's so sad. Was everybody okay? Everyone was fine. And, but I think that-- No blood, right? No blood. No blood, okay. But it was just a sucker punched the stomach, got all hit in the face. And then we do, what did we do, did we do timeout for them to learn and think about what they did? We actually just had a conversation. I didn't feel like there needed to be consequences this one because we didn't witness it. We punched another kid and we didn't do timeout. He didn't, he was the one who got punched actually. Oh. But I didn't even, it's totally fine. So here, what I'm saying, did you feel the urge to like be like, you better freaking put your hidden timeout or use it? No, because I just was approaching with curiosity because I didn't see it. And so that's a really hard thing about like, with little kids, you're like kind of like, what actually did happen here? One of you's crying, one of you's like saying something happened. So, but what I'm saying is that like with, when these things happen, really intentionally teaching empathy of like, how do you think that made some feel? Check on that, make sure they're okay. That's good. How would you feel if you were treated this way? And so like having to really, really be intentional specifically with little boys about teaching empathy for others, I think that's extremely important because I think I take for granted being a girl, like empathy is just maybe something that's just more naturally running through my veins than like, boys necessarily. You were so much more empathetic than me. I have so much to learn from you. Like, where did you learn the deep empathy that you have? That's what I'm saying. I just think, is there a woman in your life? Like, is it your mom, your grandma that like? I was treated with empathy and so like, and I was parented with empathy. Yeah. And I also think this is like, maybe just like natural thing. I was also observed, but I'm just saying that that with boys being intentional about that. So, our family rules to sum all that up is howards are patient, kind, generous, obedient and gentle. It doesn't matter the order because they're never actually used in order. If that makes sense. It's always like we're isolating one in practice. But it's good, like we should frame that. We should have those like, keep changing as they get older. But maybe we like frame it and then we put like some lines underneath to show that like, it can evolve. Like, who we are to family can evolve. I don't think it needs to be confusing, but we also have a couple of other mantras. I did not, I took this from another family. I can't even remember the first family I learned this from. But we always say howards do hard things. So, it's like, oh, if they don't, we don't really struggle with this a lot because we do have very like, very confident brave little boys. But if they're like, I think this is, I think about this when we had signed them up for soccer and they didn't want to do it. Let's add in brave, howards are brave. I like that. Well, this comes up to, yeah, we've seen it all the time. I'm like, you're brave. I resonate with things. I think it's just like, unprocessed trauma or just like stuff I need to work through in therapy. But like something about being brave, like I resonate with that attribute because I feel like being brave makes me feel like I can, like I can mean something, do something. Like it makes me, I don't know, it gets me excited. It's scary to be brave, but I think it's admirable to be brave for the right reasons, to go in and like make a difference in the world and be a good person. Yeah. Honestly, actually the book I'm reading is talking about the difference between bravery and courage, like being brave and having courage. What is the difference? I think that probably having courage is better 'cause being brave is like not feeling fear. Like I'm not fearing it, but having courage is like feeling the fear and still doing it. People can disagree with this. But I do say my voice like when things are like small, like I say it's not a big deal because I feel like when you're a little new human to the world, like everything can feel very alarming 'cause everything is new, everything is scary, everything is like max volume, right? Of like, oh, I have no frame of reference for this thing that's happened. And it elicits like the largest response possible. That's topless. They're just walking, talking nervous systems. Yeah. And so I feel like as a parent, it's okay for me to acknowledge that, but then to also follow up with saying it's actually not that big of a deal. Yeah. And so the air, the air that that falls in a lot, I feel like in practice in our parenting 'cause I don't want to just speak in broad terms and not be specific about this, is like, the color of their vitamin, the color of their plate, the color of, it's like, okay, in general, I know that you like green and you like blue, but guess what? And the grand scheme of things, it's not a big deal. And so sometimes I do have to break that and I had to intentionally break that with the vitamins 'cause we didn't, like I was really like, okay, we're gonna find out what we get today. And I feel mean when I do this, babe, but like if our kid is throwing a fit to get something he wants, that's like, just so, like I'm already caving, like they've asked for a second book during bedtime. And then they asked for a third when it's like, guys, like we're supposed to do one book. I gave you an extra one. It's passed your bedtime already. Like we played in the pool and it's 8.30, bedtime, we wanna do 8 p.m. But you know, so it's just one of those things where then you almost have to pull the card of, okay, I guess we're not gonna do, like maybe, oh, I'm about to read the second book but they're begging, they're like, no, I don't want two, I want three books. And it's like, no, this is what we're doing. And then I have to say, okay, I guess we're not gonna have the book because we're in the right place. we're throwing a fit and we're not being respectful. And so I think it's like you have to have those uncomfortable conversations with your kid, but it's further benefit even if it's just as simple as saying, "Hey, sorry today, you'll get the green cup." - So what you're exactly saying is also the reason why I always tell our kids, first of all, everybody has consequences. Kids need to learn from an early age that your behavior, your actions do have consequences. And so it's like, I don't wanna protect them from that, their entire childhood, only for them to be an adult and they take a misstep and then all of a sudden they're facing real world adult consequences and they're like, what the heck? Like I thought I was immune to all this stuff. And so I always, but I also don't want them to receive consequences without understanding and love and empathy about it. Now I always say when they have a consequence, I'm like, I wanted to give you this, but everyone has consequences, right? And then I also follow up with the why behind consequences. And so that's where we have another mantra, I literally repeat myself all the time with our kids but I just really want to hound it in their heads and keep it simple. And I always say, why do we have consequences? And it's because becoming a good man starts win and then they're like, now. And so like we always talk about that. - And it's funny too, like talking about generals too. I wanna say like, it was either Griffin or Augie that said they wanted to marry their brother. And it's like, I don't think you need to explain that-- - It's not that serious. It's not that serious. Like, I think maybe an old school view of that would be like, no, no, you can only marry your girl. Like, I don't know, you'd like a parent would like freak out. I mean, I don't know. It's just like, that's not like, you can just talk about this stuff at age appropriate times. It's not a big deal. - It's very appropriate for them to want to marry their brother. - And if your two-year-old wants to throw on a dress 'cause they're playing dress up and they're trying on dresses and spider-man costumes and batman costumes, you don't say no to the dress. You just let them put on the dress because they're just being a two-year-old. - Well, and also because wearing a dress is not what makes you feminine. And wearing a dress is not what makes you masculine, which brings us to the conversation of masculinity again. - I think a parent's role is to love their kid and support them and really anything they want to do in a way that's like loving. And so I think if your kid says, like, well, I want to be a princess, you're gonna eventually gotta break the news of them that princesses aren't real but other than the queen of England. You're looking like that. But I think you love them through that and you tell them that you view them as a princess and you just want to see them not just be happy but find purpose and meaning and love and joy and get back to the world. - So kind of to come back to what I was talking about earlier about like healthy masculinity, I think that includes empathy and consideration, and a deep consideration for everyone around you because I think a big part of healthy masculinity should be service. And so that's why I talked to our boys all the time, like for instance, when we had groceries at the front door, I expected our boys to carry the groceries for me from the front door to the kitchen. And I kept saying thank you gentlemen, thank you gentlemen because he should know that as they should know as males, a big part of their role as a man is to serve. And so I'm always like, yeah, you should serve me by carrying my groceries, holding my door. - Which is really, really good. I love that we're teaching them to be a part of our household and help put away the groceries with dad or to help hold open the door for mom, like dad does for mom. - And I always am sure say thank you gentlemen. - But in addition to that, I think something that we're not doing that we can do a better job of is in addition to our financial giving 'cause we've been giving a portion of our revenue every year since the beginning of our social media journey. We've been giving a portion of our revenue to charity every year, but we don't give a portion of our time in addition to the financial backing we're giving to different charities that we love, like St. Jude, charity water, give well. These are all charities that we've given generously too 'cause we just care about making the world a better place. And we've done podcasts with two of the, yeah, we did a St. Jude podcast, a charity water podcast. We haven't done a podcast yet for give well, but I'd love to do a podcast with them because really, really love what they do. But I think having that like physical component as a family, like on Saturdays we go and we help the local food bank for two hours. And then our kids can learn that like aspect of service and how important that is to get back to the world. I think that's really important. - I think it's really, really important. I definitely need to, I've talked about this before, like that is something that we definitely need to improve on and also invite our kids along on that journey is like serving their community. But more than anything I'm also talking about, just like serving in the home. Like they should know that part of being a man is serving those around you. And specifically serving the women around you. I really believe that. And I think you also model that really well in our household with like how you talk to me and how you take care of me. And that is very much evident in the way that our kids talk to me. - Okay, fill me in on this 'cause I had a juicy question for you. What is something that I do a good job of as far as leading by example for the boys and then what scenario I can improve on? - I was actually just leading into this. Like our kids, like you can see the fruit of how you've modeled what it looks like to be a loving, manly husband and the way that our kids talk to me. - Wait, that kind of turns me out. You like hyping me up right now. I was like literally-- - Well, our kids tell me what it's like. - I've got the hots for you right now, babe. Got the hots. - They're like mommy, you're beautiful. Or if I'm like sad, they're like it's gonna be okay for me. - Wait, I love that. Why do I love that our kids say that to you? - Are you like mommy? - Are you worried? - No, I love when Oggy says, if you're crying about like miscarriage and missing Emerson, the boys will literally say to you, it's gonna be okay, mom. - It's gonna be okay. And I'm just like tears. Like it's just like, I love that they're comforting you right now. - Like they, it's very, I'm so grateful that they have you as an example to look to because like you are an amazing example of what it means to be manly nowadays. Like you're literally, and here's the thing that makes me so freaking mad. And where my comment came from back three years ago is I think any creator that is a couple that is in the same space as us has definitely experienced it. I feel this without a shadow of a doubt. Whereas if the husband displays sensitivity emotional, any type of emotional aspect, being emotional at all, kindness, sweetness, gentleness, all the comments are like, run, girl, he's gay. - He's gay, he's gay, he's gay, he's gay, he's gay, he's gay, yeah. - I've been told I'm gay my entire life. - And you know what? Let's, those people that are commenting that or are feeling that or are saying that. Let's also have empathy for them because they were raised in the same society in culture too, where they were probably told if they had any type of emotion as a kid that they were gay. This just shows a misunderstanding of mismasculinity. Within myself, there is masculinity and femininity. - Wait, that's uncomfortable. - With you there is masculinity and femininity. - Why does it make me as uncomfortable as a man and the time that I was raised in to like say, in me as a man, there's masculinity and femininity. Like why does femininity, like why do I feel like, I don't know, like that word. - It's like once again, it's just the time you're raised in. - It sounds like a children must find. - It's very easy for me to say like in me, there is masculinity. - Like I don't, I was kind of raised in the girl power era, which I'm grateful for. I'm so grateful for it. Like I was encouraged to succeed. I was encouraged to be strong, resilient, like all these things. And like that's why I also feel like it is my duty to also reflect that too towards our young men. - Thank you to Oli Popp for sponsoring this portion of today's episode. - We are truly an Oli Popp household over here. We recently made a family mantra and we had a lot of serious things in there, so we also did add that we will always be well stocked with beverages for guests that enter our home. - Would you do a great job of, by the way? - That basically just means that we stock up on Oli Popp. - You did that you stocked our fridge just a couple days ago with like 20 different Oli Pop flavors. - Nearly empty now though, because Oli Popp is so delicious. If you don't know what it is, it is a new kind of soda that combines the classic soda taste that we all grew up with loving. - Yep. - But with the benefits of a functional ingredient blend to support digestive health. You really wouldn't know though, because it really tasted so good, but they are reimagining soda with high fiber and low sugar. And a lot of their flavors are rooted in nostalgia, which I also love. - This has two grams of sugar, two grams. 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They get a flamingo for sponsoring this portion of today's episode. Have you ever been in a situation where you don't have a good razor and you're cutting your skin and there's blood and you're sad. I've done that. That's been me. Sad. I've done that so many times. I might tell you as a woman that is a tale is oldest time. I have sensitive skin. We have been stealing our husband's razors because these razors are cute and all that they are marketing towards women but they just don't do the job. We need sharp razors. You know what I like right now? Wow. That is a close shave. That is a great look. That is all thanks to Flamingo. Here's how it all happened. The women who helped build herries found themselves rolling their eyes when other companies were just shrinking men's razors and making them pink. So they decided to shake things up a little bit and that's how Flamingo was born to give women shaving solutions made with their bodies in mind. 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I know we touched on this already and I think I know the answer to this but I want to hear you say it out loud for everyone listening right now. With women making more than men, how should men respond in the home? What should men do? First of all I think we need to view income for a household differently. Like I don't look at our income as like what I make and what you make. I have no idea what dollar amount I make and versus what dollar not you make. It's what we make. I think it's a fragile masculine view but I think the viewpoint is like well if my wife's making more than me, I'm insignificant. I'm not I'm not I'm not contributing. I'm supposed to be the provider. I'm not providing for my family. I don't know how to tell you. I genuinely do not think women care about money. I think that's the black and white view of men. Like men think that if they can make more money they can provide security and like provision for their families. I think men are just in this view of masculinity men are set up to fail. If men are viewed as valuable for the amount of dollars they bring home every year every month, then we're just setting them up for failure. Limiting masculinity to that. And how is this a trend affected then by childbirth because I feel like the women making more than men are probably mostly women that are probably not married or probably don't have kids. I don't know. There's a lot of working moms out there. True. True. There are. Yeah. Actually, that's a really good point. I'm not sure that that's actually even true. Wait, actually, you're right. Like I think like even in our own life, I want to say both of our sister-in-laws make more than their husbands. And I think like we're probably seeing this trend. We've seen it in our life. And so I'm sure people are seeing it in their life too. Of course. And I think that like a lot of women got these like really big careers, very high opportunity careers, well-paying jobs. Yeah. And then they find themselves like maybe making more than their spouse and then having a kid and then feeling like oh man, now I actually kind of want to stay home with that baby. But then it's like, oh, I am bringing the bulk of the income home each month. That makes me think of the tick-tock with the Mrs. Incredible audio that's like, come on, girls. Leave the same world to the men. I don't think so. I love that. See, I love that. I like that too. And I also think never mind. I'm not gonna say that. Sorry. I think Mrs. Incredible is attractive, but I think you're more attractive. So I think that makes me like I just gave you a really big compliment. Great. Yeah. I think also modern masculinity or help modern healthy masculinity looks like good communication. And that which also comes from like empathy and from consideration. I'm saying some unhinge stuff today. I'm like I got to be careful with the clipping of this. Another thing that I think is really important specifically in us raising strong, confident, resilient young men that are also very empathetic and considerate and kind and gentle is critical thinking skills. I think that's specifically like what is the calling for men nowadays is to be really strong critical thinkers because I think that that's part of being a good leader. And I still want to raise our boys to be strong leaders. And so a part of that is like having really good critical thinking skills. I feel like a lot of times like at least in our relationship where I'm like, oh my gosh, like this is something that's like new and I'm not really sure how to like I'm not really sure like I'm kind of like feeling out of sorts or like this is big and I'm like, Matt, I like look to you. And I feel like you have amazing critical thinking skills. And that's why I think that's like a unique special gift. It's not like women don't have it too. But like that is really like strong. Why doesn't it make me feel like an alpha whenever you like turn to me? I does it. That's good. And so I feel like with our boys, it's like I really want to help teach them critical thinking. So how this comes into play? Because I also want to be practical about this conversation. I don't want to just be speaking in general terms. Like I said, how it comes to play is when they're when they are given a consequence. It's like if they're taking a break for like one or two minutes or whatever, like they don't get the fruit snack or whatever your consequences are in your household. Obviously keep them appropriate as having a conversation to help strengthen those communities, those critical thinking skills. And so it's not like we're just doling out consequences for no reason. They don't understand it doesn't lead to behavior modification down the line. As we say, hey, what did you do wrong? What should you do differently next time? And then what should you do now? That is them thinking critically through like, okay, we did not just give a consequence to give a consequence. And then we always say like I didn't want to give you this consequence. But raising good men starts now. And everyone has consequences. And so we talk about like even with us, like I love when there's like a situation in life where it's like, oh, we have to have this consequence. Like for us, mommy has this consequence because I didn't do this or yeah, like if I'm running late. No, I love it. Like what's an example of Griffin telling me something? Maybe one time I was like driving like five miles per hour in a parking lot. And my seatbelt wasn't on. It's like, dad, you got to buckle up. Like, and then it's like, oh my god, like Griffin, I forgot. I need to pull over. And I'm not going to explain to him as like he's a three-year-old. So he doesn't he's not going to fully understand like how driving 20 feet in a parking lot going five miles per hour isn't a big deal if you buckle up. But because he understands the rules, I want to reinforce like great job. Like you recognize the rule that we have in this world. And these rules are set up to protect us. And so I'm going to like, I'm going to praise you for that. Like thanks for reminding me, but I'm not going to be like, oh, dad doesn't have to follow the rules. I do whatever the if I want. Like no, yeah. Like that's also you modeling like, oh, I'm submitting myself to like a three-year-old. I'm submitting myself to a three-year-old. No, not to a three-year-old, but like they can see you once again not being too big or too proud. I'm acknowledging my two three-year-old. You acknowledging your role in society too. And so all that to say, like I really want to make sure I feel like that's how critical thinking skills can play a role. And like it's specifically comes in like after having consequences with our kids. Yeah, I feel like a lot of this is kind of making it sound like I feel like I know everything and it's like that's literally not the case at all. I'm constantly having conversations with my friends of like, how can I learn this or like reading books or like just learning. And I feel like honestly a lot of this is best done through conversation. And the only authority we have on this topic is the fact that we are parents. We have two boys. We're not experts. We're not really much of an authority. There's a lot of parents out there. We're not experts. We're not. We didn't go to school at Harvard or get a master's in family like like practice, counseling, and therapy. That's not us. We're not emergent to family therapists, okay? Our degree's not in this, but we're just talking about our own life and our own experience. Yeah, I also want to say like, I feel so proud of our boys in specific circumstances. And I always praise the heck out of it when I see these things happen. So we had a little friend come over who was three-year-old girl. She's playing. And then I noticed that like our dog had scratched her. And she was really sad about it. Wait, oh wait, I know who this is. And I hate that. And she thought to go to our oldest directly. She's like, Hey, like I'm sad because pretzel scratched me. And our son put his arm around her and he gave her a hug. He gave her a hug. And he like looked checked out. He looked at her wound. And then he proceeded to walk over to our sliding glass door where she was outside. And he threw the glass. He's like, don't do that again, pretzel. And I feel like that is very, that was just a beautiful picture of him being protected. He's protective of women. But then he also like checked to make sure that she was okay. And he cared for her emotions, gave her a hug. Yeah. And then went and it was like, I'm going to defend you. Yeah. And so I feel like all of these things are like really, really such good things at their foundation. Now can these things be twisted to be missing? You like this can this masculine masculine trait be twisted to be toxic or to be harmful towards women yeah, or to be just like Be literally yes, it can but like that is such a beautiful picture to me I'm like hey Griffin. Thank you so much for protecting her Thank you so much for caring for her having empathy for her And we don't necessarily use all those words, but I'm like really thank you for checking in on her Thank you for giving her a hug Thank you for like doing these things and it just makes me so so proud and My main thing, first of all if the term man hating culture is like offensive That's not my goal at all. That was just how I was experiencing it because I just never want my little boys to Go about their life and just Hear these things and take them on as they're developing their view of themselves and their role in the world to hear like I hate men men are the worst and then be like man There's something wrong with me like there is something I'm not capable of this like there's just just such a defeated I don't I'd never want that to happen like I want them to feel empowered in their Unique role as a man like I want them to feel empowered in that yeah, and I feel like a man That's properly empowered is not one that is going to be abusive like misused power. Yeah, any of those what I think a lot of them I think men that have positions of power that do harmful things in society and in the world Probably are just men that need to go therapy and haven't been and haven't worked and haven't worked through personal things that they're now Like they're searching for something that they're never going to find because it's just they need to put in the works for themselves Which I also want to like applaud you on because when you go to therapy It's not like okay, they're like wait, where's dad going? It's not like you're like I'm just gonna go out and do tinker with the car I'm going to therapy and you're making that normal making it normal to be like I have things I want to work on yeah Making that healthy and making that like okay for them to be like Okay, I can go to therapy too, and I feel like a lot of boys a lot. Yeah, and also let's props to your dad He modeled that for you too, which was my dad never done my I am proud of my dad for being open about going to couples therapy I think the next step that I've taken that I guess I should be proud of myself as individual Because that wasn't modeled for me like what was modeled is going to therapy for your eyes not demonized therapy in general My parents yeah, individual therapy was not modeled for me And so for me to take that step myself I'm proud of myself for that, and I think it's important for Like and I truly mean this like I'm not trying to just like sell everyone on therapy But I do really believe that everyone literally everyone could gain Value in therapy even if it's just a few times right for sure and if therapy isn't like a financial option at a certain time Yes, like having having candid raw Vulnerable conversations with trusted community really can have very similar effect which something I need to work on is like just to be Candid and vulnerable for a second like I there's conversations I have with my therapist that I don't think I could have with any of my friends which it which is it I feel like that I wish it wasn't that way. I don't know what it is with me. It's I take full ownership for it I don't know what it is about me where I feel like I can't share some of those things with my closest guy friends But I literally have told it's like it's like my therapy like I've told my therapist like everything just like you you know So it's just I don't know I want to say to like that is a great example of masculinity for our boys as you Being willing to work on yourself actively as an as a grown man and specifically working on yourself and an emotional capacity That's huge and that's so important and I feel like that also needs to be included in our definition of modern masculinity Yeah, and and can I say this to this is this might be a bit of a hot take But I don't think your spouse can be your therapist you cannot expect your spouse to meet each and every emotional need you have Man or woman it does not matter like you need to find healthy outlets for your emotions Especially the big ones that you know everybody has them everyone has different ways of dealing with them But I think it's like extremely toxic for a husband or wife to to expect their their spouse to meet all of that And I've definitely been guilty of there's been times where I'm like, oh, I have you need to do this for me And I think a really good place if you're ever in a state of bitterness I think like for me to have this this realization of what can I do? It's like that saying what Look not to what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country. I think that's John F. Kennedy Somebody quote me on that. I said I've quote. I've posted. I've quoted that in the past and people were like Oh, yeah, that's the quote by and then I forget who it is every time. My memory is not that great, but In your marriage same thing what can you do for your marriage? What can you do to make your marriage better? Which once again goes into service and I think like both men and women on the side of like hate like almost if you're finding yourself as a man or a woman Being finding hatred for a gender period. It doesn't matter which one it is. It doesn't matter if you it's the same gender that you are It doesn't matter if it's a different gender Regardless of what the hatred is if you're finding that think about it put yourself in their shoes Think about it for a different perspective, and I think it's just important to always do that Let's also recognize like why this became so popular. Yeah, in my opinion I feel like a lot of it has to do with our algorithms. They promote the most Angry the most like a motion-infused response the most like I feel like that put a major role in why I was Riving to the conclusion of like over living in a man hate world because the big the videos that are like the Most anger driven the most Stereotyping the most emotional like those are the ones that are getting promoted those are ones again the most comments the most getting likes shares all of those things and That's where how I like arrived at that conclusion, and I'm like I'm not fully I still necessarily fully a disagree with that But I do think that yeah like that clip that definitely did not Recognize the nuance that this issue the complexity of this issue, and like why we're seeing this pendulum swing this way Because of all the oppression and hate and abuse and Mistreatment that's what causes that I think the problem social media. I think I think I think the drama the drama and the tea gets clicks And I think that's why we see I think yeah all of that leads to the voices of People hating on men and then the men that are then hating on women like the red pill community Like I think that's like where you get all this drama and then you get these sides, and it's just a lot of conflict Yeah, and I just want to say like as a mom to two young boys I Am not afraid To raise my boys To be masculine. Yeah, like that is something that that's like literally one of my goals Yeah, and in my mind that comes with so much nuance, but it is I want them to be strong Yeah, I want them to be resilient. I want them to be good leaders Yeah, and I want them to be protective. Yeah, like those are things that I'm like I uniquely want that for them as boys Now that doesn't mean that if I have a little girl that I don't also want her to raise her to be those things Yeah, these are like these are primary goals for me as a boy mom This is like a messy sensitive topic and like I don't want to act like I'm disregarding that at all And I want to be very empathetic towards that like my thoughts aren't fully collected But I've just been having these and it feels scary to voice them because of responses like we got Yeah, yeah, but I don't want that fear to hold me back from having a conversation that feels important to me as a mom of two boys It's important to me too, and I think it would be silly for us to not talk about what we believe like it's important It's important to talk about you believe and then also like I I think the beauty of Social media is the connection that we have and we can share these ideas You know even though the that was a 22-second clip by the way that blew up and and got some you know Maybe negative comments, but I think like there's a lot we can learn from that There's a lot that our viewers that believe a lot of the same things We believe can learn from different viewpoints, and I think it's really important as a society especially in today's day and age To listen to other viewpoints because that's what brings us together We don't need to we don't need to continue to divide up as a as a country and as a world We need to build bridges to one another and talk about these things. 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