Modern luxury: Simone Stephens and Jonas Bjerre-Poulsen on living well

[Music] This is Monocle On Design, a show where we unpack everything from architecture and craft, to furniture and graphic design. I'm Nick Manese. On today's special episode produced in partnership with Fisher & Pyracle, we talk luxury. In this second installment in our three part series, we hear from designer Simone Stevens, an architect Jonas Beer Paulson. All that coming up on Monocle On Design. Hello and welcome to today's special episode. Produced in partnership with Fisher & Pyracle, we're asking the question, what does luxury look like today? For the longest time in the design world and domestic spaces, luxury was designed by brand names, price tag and size, with bigger, often equating better. But contemporary tastes and expectations have shifted. It's something that Simone Stevens is well versed in. She's head of Global DNA partnerships and principal designer at Fisher & Pyracle Appliances. An industrial designer by training, she joined the New Zealand company in 2003 and now works with the Global Cohort of Architects and Designers. She has been instrumental in developing a range of industry tools, including the company's case study program and supports the design industry's use of Fisher & Pyracle Appliances. For more on how these partnerships and relationships are shaping perceptions of luxury, Monocle's Hassan Anderson caught up with Simone at Fisher & Pyracle's stand at Uro Kachina. It's the dedicated kitchen showcase at the Salonadol Mobile Trade Fair in Milan. And that's exactly where the New Zealand-based brand presented its showcase, Nature Ritual. We go to that conversation now. So I think luxuries evolved over time. You get some quite clear statements and signals that are almost like a basic element of luxury where people are really wanting to convey or to present to others. But I think people have more appreciation and understanding about what luxury means to them as individuals. And that's shifted over time, which can be like macro trends, but also world affairs and the environment that we face. And so we now have more respect for resources, for time, for balance in our lives, for family, for things that actually mean a lot to us. And I think we see that coming through in the built environment and creating amazing spaces for ourselves, not necessarily to show off. But there's often, there is an element of that. How do you quietly show people the choices that you've made? How do you create an end that can come through in the individuals going to take on that? Well, I mean, luxury in the kitchen, it used to be about size, finish, brand name. I mean, in many areas, the idea of showing off that you are in a luxurious space, a sort of part of the price tag. Sorry, sorry, I'm going to get to my question because it sounded like I didn't tell you there. But my question here is, what does it look like now? Is it about experience? Is it about integration, comfort, time? I think it's about deeply understanding the life that you're living in that home, and therefore the kitchen. So is the kitchen the heart of the home? Is it a space where just one people is interacting or are there many? Is it a space that the family or the individuals are actually cooking themselves or is it actually somewhere that others are serving and actually utilising? And so what we see is actually that there's this plethora or range and also to an evolution of the kitchen being much more integrated into the living spaces and therefore the continuity of materials from those interior spaces, the integration of the appliances, the detailing, the craft, the materials, all of that is actually a lot more considered, but you still do get other kitchens which might be, and sometimes they're divided into what is public and what is private. And so we see that. We do see as well a lot of decisions where you're really trying to understand the use. So going from weekday convenience to weekend gourmet or from individuals to actually accommodating, more entertaining, social, how do you gather, how do you utilise that with more people? And because of that, the different task areas that you might have for that and then to actually go beyond the kitchen, so that wet bars, secondary kitchens, midnight kitchens, we have these, I guess, references that we've been seeing as we learn more about other people's lifestyles and the different homes because also some people have multiple homes, they are not just replicating that life in each home that's actually driven by that location, driven by what they're actually doing in that vicinity, it will change. It does, I guess it's kind of expanded out as a kind of multi-function space. Wet bars, games rooms with additional kitchens, midnight kitchens are often like coffee stations, refrigerations, outside bedrooms, people that are travelling across state lines quite a lot, they're out of sync, they don't want to go all the way to the kitchen, they can just get a coffee, they can get a bite to eat, a drink right there, and so it's really fascinating to be talking with the tactics and designers with their clients and in almost unpicking these patterns of use. The kitchen is often seen as the heart of the home, it's a very important space and I suppose often we maybe even overlook how much it does to create that kind of sense of family or that sense of home. How often does that shift the brief when you're working with architects and interior designers on high-end residential projects? If the kitchen is the heart of the home, naturally there's a certain scale to it and a certain orientation within the layout so it's not going to be done the end of the house and it's not going to be tiny, it starts to be a little bit more central, it starts to be open to some of the adjacent spaces and then there's real consideration in terms of how you're using that so even at a basic level where are you going to place the cooktop? Who's doing the cooking? And so if that's against the wall looking out the window you might be an individual, you might have these amazing views, often the locations really stunning but actually you've got your back to the room, you're not engaging with everyone else whereas if you move that to the island then you're facing the room, you might be looking through, you can interact, you can engage and be part of that conversation while cooking. You develop tools and resources to help architects and designers specify fishery and pico appliances for high-end projects. What other questions they're asking today that they weren't asking ten years ago? Ten years ago, almost what architects and designers really needed was accurate dimensional information, that's still super important and that's like the base level for a conversation. So for us it's really critical to deliver this dimensional information that they can use to align the brake lines, understand the possibilities with the integrated panels and I guess what has changed is that the desire for integration and customization is greater, like they have beautiful designs and really now start to understand the possibilities of how our product can actually fit within those. For us our product is beautiful, it can stand on its own but we also understand that sometimes they want to hide it away, they want to have that continuity with the rest of the home so we've worked really hard to hide the ventilation to allow panels to extend up and down so that you can choose where the brake lines are, have the clean lines right across the kitchen, do negative detail handles, push to open so you can even remove handles just really trying to understand their design intent and how we can deliver that through our product and the development of the new products. Tell us a little bit about how the idea of heritage and craft shows up in Fisher and Pike Art from your perspective. Nature and our environment is really important, we're exposed to it all the time, it drives a lot of our design values and principles but when you're working with amazing craftsmen you can see that attention and care to all the detail that they've put in and we do the same but more with a manufactured process but it's the materiality is really important, the shape is the radiuses, the real care and consideration to all of those design elements and how it feels when you interact with it, how it sounds when you open and close it, all of those details we we recognise over the decisions around that as well. Obviously when we talk about design it can mean the technicalities, it can mean the engineering but it can also mean the aesthetics but it can also mean beyond that, the way that we interact with objects and the effect they create on our mood, on how we talk to each other, on what it lets us do with our day and ritual plays a role in that third sense, tell me a bit about how Fisher and Pike are thinks about ritual and what are some of the design challenges involved in trying to make sure you foster that with one of your kitchens. If you stick 'Bak' you look at nature actually sets a lot of rituals for us as people, like the moon cycle, the daylight beginning and we have these rhythms and patterns. And then when you start to think about the home, you start to come down to the kitchen, there's rhythms and patterns that we have and they can change depending on the time of the day, the number of people. And for us it's really about how do you understand that, how do you have appliances that are going to perform amazingly, how do you make it enjoyable to interact with them to use, to actually get the great results from that. And so it can be very simple things, like is that dial beautiful to turn to use, is the audio feedback amazing, it's really satisfying, is the screen, I've got this beautiful graphic, really easy to use, or even simply is that really elegant and it feels a pleasure to actually interact with, to the choices that I'm making as I put my items in the cool drawer, the temperatures right there, it's not about temperature, which I'm not sure for the producers, that the right one, it's more about the produce that you're actually putting in, and it will inform you of the temperature and so actually trying to make it about the choices that you are doing and to, I guess, imbue those with a sense of enjoyment, of satisfaction, that's how you create rituals, slow down, you actually do the task, but it's more meaningful than a chore, it becomes something that you're actually looking forward to and that you take that moment in time. You're quite holistic, a Fisher and Pico as designers, because you think about the bigger picture. Are there any kind of words of wisdom you give to the customers who end up buying one of your kitchen? Is there a way to be an Fisher and Pico kitchen? Is it beyond just using the objects? Do you want people to think about how they use the objects? Or do you want people to, like you say, consider what they're putting into the fridge as well as what the fridge does? Absolutely, so we want people to, first of all, actually make the right decisions for them, so we want to offer a lot of choice and it might be material choice, it might be, it's even like format choice, so we talk about solutions, so what type of ovens do you require? Do you need a commission oven? What a steam oven also help? And understanding why and how you would use those, how they would actually suit your life is really important. Disgrossing, multiple distraurs, a fantastic, but then some people want to dishwasher that they can put in the scalery and clear away the large platters and keep it out of sight. So just having some of those design conversations can really tailor the perfect set of appliances for them in their life, but then for us, it's not just about that point, we want them to enjoy the use to spend that time with them and to be able to learn and understand, but at the same time, if they just want to have a quick interaction, if they know what their choices are, they can do that, we're not impeding it, but then at the same time if they want to go deeper, making fabric here as a fantastic example where it's fiber-led, so it's thinking about your garment that you're putting in, making that decision, starting to learn and understand what different detergents should be used, the breakdown of those, the steam, the temperature, and you can start to really, if you don't already have that knowledge, you can start to really understand what is best for those, how to preserve them, how to make them last longer, and then the effect that they will actually have is better for our environment, because the most sustainable choice is if you can make a garment last a lot longer. That was Simone Stevens in conversation with Monaco's Hassan Anderson. Next up on today's show, I'm joined by Jonas Beer Paulson, co-founder of award-winning Copenhagen-based studio Norm Architects. He's known for residential architecture, commercial interiors, and industrial design that's defined by its soft minimalism approach. The studio creates refined work that focuses on natural materials, longevity, and human wellbeing. These traits could be considered hallmarks of contemporary luxury. It's work that came to the fore for Norm Architects installation at Aldo Stand at the Salona Del Moblé Trade Fair in Milan. It was inspired by the Architects work on Aldo's headquarters in Copenhagen, which includes a cafe and a hotel. For more, his Jonas Beer Paulson. We're standing just outside the Grand Café, which is an installation that we designed for an Aldo Copenhagen here in Milan at Salona Del Moblé. I think this is a nice starting point for our discussion, because I've been reflecting on this idea of luxury in recent months, maybe partly driven by taste in the Middle East, but also in America, at the moment, perhaps driven by the President. When I think of luxury, I think of your work. We'll get to that in a moment, but maybe could you tell us a little bit about your ethos and what defines the work that you do at Norm Architects? Yeah, I think we started our company back in 2008, kind of like a wide rebellion against the trend-driven. That was just before the financial crisis, where you had postmodernist ideas and very expressive, visual culture, I would say, across design architecture and art. We were raised in a more modernist tradition, I think. So we really wanted to convey our love for something that was more pair-down, simple made from general materials, and that had some kind of longevity built into its presence. Coming down, slowing down. When I think of luxury at the moment, I kind of think of time and space. How is this imbue in your work? I think that's right on point. I mean, today there's so much visual noise. I think everybody, whether it's digitally through your iPhone or walking in urban areas, I mean, half of the world's population live in urbanized areas. I think there's deep need for a lot of people in modern worlds to reconnect with nature in many ways and find time to relax and have a bit of a sanctuary. I think that luxury of time, that luxury of being close to nature is an answer to an over-stimulated world in many ways. Is that kind of what drives your work? You mentioned nature there. How significant is that to the work they do at norm? I think it's essential to our work. I mean, a lot of contemporary architecture today, if you look at like mainstream architecture, is very synthetic. I mean, it's built up from resting materials, aluminium frames, glazing, plastic paint under walls, laminated kitchens and all of that. So when you're into, I say, a standard apartment in almost any city in the world today, you are completely disconnected from nature. And I think there's this need to kind of re-centralize the built environment to bring nature back into our cities. That's rewildering our cities with greenery and parks and nature. That sense or in the one symbolic way, kind of like working with genuine natural materials that talk about time, where you can kind of sense the growth of the tree, the kind of like the geology of stone and that kind of like long span of time. I think those things are fundamental to us as species. I'm also kind of curious. You talked about pairing back a little bit earlier. We've mentioned nature there. Is this an aesthetic decision or is this more about the emotional impact that architecture and this approach to design can have on us? I think it's important to think about architecture in terms of atmosphere. Like we would do, think about the weather in many ways. How are they? FX our emotional state of mind and and how it kind of affects, you know, how we feel in many ways. I think a lot of time people they create architecture, think about architecture or spaces, interiors in very quantifiable terms in terms of dimension and materiality and visual impressions rather than thinking about yet atmospheric or element of things. Tell us about that in terms of an approach. Are you sitting down and is the starting point? How do I want somebody to feel in this space? Or what's that approach at norm? Yeah, I mean, it's always a super complex process involving a lot of people, but I think a good starting point is always trying to think about what should the emotional response of the user be in architecture and then of course connecting to the place where you're building then thinking about kind of like the longevity and durability of a piece of work that's not only about the durability of materials, but also aesthetic durability. I mean, I think there's so much expressive design and architecture being made that becomes very time specific that's great for gallery or an exhibition or trying to invent something new, but if it's something that mass produced, if you use a lot of resources building something that should be permanent, I think those kind of like considerations of simplicity and time are quite relevant. That impact is simplicity and time. What does that do to us as people? If we're talking about our experience of a physical space, our experience of architecture, does it come us down? Does it give us room to express ourselves? What does it do to us? These pairing back? I think we think a lot about architecture like a canvas for life unfolding inside the walls of a home or a hotel or an office space and it can stimulate us in different ways and I mean, there's been done a lot of surveys on how sounds and smells and colors kind of affect our nervous system. For example, that was quite an interesting survey. I read where there's been a school class where they measured their stress levels where they were kind of being taught in a environment with very bold colors, which you find in a lot of public institutions. And then they repainted everything into kind of like muted, calm, natural colors like a grayish, bluish, brownish tones. And they remassured the stress levels and they had dropped significantly. And the interesting thing is that all these students that were blind because color is something that affects us, like wavelength through our skin and it's not just a visual expression. And that's just an example of how we try to, I think, see if there are any universal answers to what can create good architecture, good design within neuroscience or biology or anthropology. That is kind of like transcends tastes and cultural preferences. I mean, I'm curious as well. I've heard you talk about this concept of phenomenology. Can you tell us a little bit about that and what it is? It's a philosophical direction, but there are some architects that have kind of looked at how we can talk about architecture in this atmospheric way, talk about what architecture can do in terms of, let's say, here, recalling memories or creating certain sentiment. There's a finished architecture professor, Yohani Palasma, that has written a great deal about phenomenology and how we can kind of think and talk about architecture, design and the build world in general and how it affects us as humans being. So if I'm somebody that wants to say, build a house, I'm thinking somewhere on the coast. I'm going to go west in Australia where I'm from. And I come to it with the brief of, you know, I want something that is calming, relaxing. That gives me this time and space, this idea of luxury. Walk us through maybe a little bit of the approach there. What's the first questions maybe you're asking me or pushing me to think about? I think what we have now have a friendly long talk, a lot of dinners and really talk through kind of how you would live your life, what's important to you? No, when do you have your downtime, when do you entertain, how do you entertain? Good you live with all these kind of questions that are tied into human life in general. How is your kind of like rituals of taking care of yourself? And then you'd start to think about how to create architecture that would be suitable for you as a user. Now it's very personal, but it could also be something where you think about it for a hotel guest, for example, or a person coming to a restaurant. And then the next step would be of course understanding the spirit of this site. You know, if it's on Australia, what are the local building traditions, what are the materials to be found? You know, and then you can go with the traditions, which we always like, I think maybe just being from another place in the world, that is enough to create something that becomes sort of a hybrid between Scandinavian design thinking and Australian architecture in this sense. But understanding, in general, not only kind of like the plot where you're building, but the greater infrastructure of the city or the country in itself, the landscape and integrating that into the architecture. So it becomes an authentic thing, something that's genuine to the site and an architect's wish to drop kind of like a monument in the middle of Australia that looks like a traditional Scandinavian house. There's a humility to it as well. Definitely. I think that's super important. I mean, now we work all over the globe in many different cultures and we are always reliant on a good collaboration also with the local architects and local craftsmen. But before even making the first kind of like lines and paper, it's drafting your idea for new design. I think it's important to understand all these things. I recently interviewed Alvaro Cisa in Porto, who's 92 now, and he told me that an architect is like a detective. Everything is out there. You just need to find it and come up with the right answers. For you, your practice, I mean, what are some of the priorities moving ahead for the next two, three, five years for normal architects? Where do you think you would like to be moving? In many ways, we would like to continue our journey of creating these kind of like design pieces of restraint, whether it's architecture or design and hopefully create projects that have some kind of longevity to them. And of course, there are always new typologies, new types of building. I mean, I think people are just creative. You have this inner inexplicable urge to create something new. And I mean, we've been working in many years with refurbishment for existing building mass, which is quite interesting. And we've been working a lot with wood as a material. And I think it's interesting to see now we talk about sustainability, a lot of architecture, that a lot of the answers to what creates good architecture is actually something that's found pre-industrialization. You know, recently we're doing a small exhibition, three days of designing Copenhagen for a company called Sule. And they create all these building materials from eel grass that they collect on the beach. So it's CO2 negative in many ways. But they're used to kind of use that for insulation in old houses in Denmark. And now this is coming back as a new building material. It's just something that I think would like to pursue in our architecture going forward. My thanks to Jonas Beer Pulse in there. And that's all for today's show. Tune in next week for the final installment in this series. And for more design discussion, listen to Monical OnDesign airing Tuesdays on Monical Radio and wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Nick Manisse, goodbye and thanks for listening.