MNF Recap: Rams get right over Dart-less Giants

Welcome to the athletic football show. I'm Robert Mays week two is all done Monday night football in the books. The ramps take care of business against the New York Giants. Another quarterback injury that we're having to deal with. Thankfully, it sounds like Jackson Dart is going to be okay. We really didn't dig into the timeline during this conversation, just because it does seem like he's probably going to be back. Jordan or not from the SPN report during the game and Laura Rattwood, who I think did a really good job all game giving us context about the dart injury. Relay that he tried to go back into the game. It doesn't sound like he's serious. Obviously, it doesn't sound serious. Obviously, he was on the sideline for a good chunk of the second half of that game. So it does sound like Jackson Dart is going to be back sooner rather than later, but still a bummer to loosen for the entirety of this game. And you really felt it for the Giants offense. We dug into that. The return of Aaron Donald a bounce back gave for the Rams offense and much, much more with me Dave Hellman and Derek Lassen. Let's get to it right now. Week two ends exactly as week two began. What can we just stop doing this? I'm so tired of this. Can we get through a game without one of the starting quarterbacks being helped off the field and us wondering when he's going to be back and how long he's going to be out and how said that teams fans should be? This is nonsense. With the Giants specifically, did any team in the NFL have the most whiplash between week one and week two than the New York Giants? You look great on offense. Feel great about your young quarterback. Congratulations. All of your most important players are going to limp off the field at some point in this game because it was neighbors to it. It wasn't like it wasn't just Jackson Dart like the dart thing is one thing and they've had a separate issue. And your Thomas limped it limped off. Brian Burns got hurt at some point in this game. My God. It was a bloodbath. Burns couldn't get into the injury tent because Thomas was in there. Like he had to wait at the end. Unbelievable. And that stuff happened later. Make reservations in the blue time if you're the Giants about a week in advance. There's something especially heinous about it happening on like the fourth play of the game or whatever it was for the Giants. Like, you know, I mean, all injuries are terrible, especially quarterback injuries, but at least Caleb got to the fourth quarter. And Jayden Daniels got to the end of the half like this game. Some people weren't even settled into their seats when this happened. And it just, I mean, it takes the air out of everything. It makes this game hard to evaluate. It makes it lay way less fun to watch. Just sucks. He was playing. I mean, they were driving the ball again after he looked really good in week one. And, you know, I think they're really excited. Just the staff there about what they've seen from him so far. And even you saw it on the first drive, the great Roman run game has so many checks and so many layers to it for the quarterback. He's handling all of that stuff. I mean, coming out of that week one game, I was really excited to watch him play again. And then for that to be ripped away, the Jamest experience doesn't quite have the charm. It did like 10 years ago. It's, it was fun. Yeah, we're done now. We there was a stretch where, and I don't have to get into all of this, but there was a stretch where there was a certain enjoyment in watching him play, just because there was an aggressiveness. There was a reckless abandon. There was a words going to shock it down the field. I mean, I 30 touchdown, 30 interception Jamest is not walking through that door. And so it really did suck the air out of this game to lose start when they did. Jamest won 11 of 27 in this game. Malik neighbors finished with one catch for one yard, which I don't know how much of that is. We have to go back and watch. But the Rams plan a lot of man coverage. You know, they really did blanket the Giants offense for most of this game. But the fact that the Jamest experience is still the promise of it is supposed to be, we'll still feed the guys that you want to see fed. And Malik neighbors had one catch for one yard by the time this game ended. How much of that is on the Giants offense and how much of that is because of the injury, I can't really say at this point. I would just say that Trent McDuffy seemed like he did a hell of a freaking job on him. I mean, two, two huge moments in this game were Trent McDuffy and coverage on Malik neighbors. He got the better of him on the in zone interception. Certainly, plenty of that is on the throw by Jamest Winston. But then the breakup that he had on the deep ball was just an incredibly fun play. And we talked about it after the Rams opener about just the physicality and the size of these corners. And that's why you go out and get these guys. And I was thinking about that on that play where neighbors was looking for a flag. There was so much contact. But I just I thought it was good sturdy contact by a big physical DB. And so maybe look, no, not maybe. It definitely looks better with Jackson Dart, even if the result is similar. But I do think I think Trent McDuffy had a hell of a night too. He was following neighbors in this game. They had 21 plays where they were lined up across from each other on those plays. Three targets, no catches for Malik neighbors on those plays. So yeah, you're right. Trent McDuffy does is a lot of credit for that. But overall, just a pretty lifeless performance from the Giants offense, essentially from the moment we lost Jackson Dart. It feels like so much of the promise to with the offense was not even just what Dart had looked like in the passing game, obviously, but I think part of why the run game works and they've been under center a lot and like it's a lot of dot formation stuff in their run game. But part of the run game promise was that you could have Jackson Dart, even if just as like a fake faint threat in the shotgun. And the fact that that immediately is, you know, pulled out of the offense and they have to go to James Winston who other than the fact that I guess these quarterbacks are both like willing to push the ball and be a little bit aggressive. There's really nothing similar about Jackson Dart and James Winston other than some of the reckless abandoned. And so having to switch gears like that in the middle of this game with neighbors clearly not at 100%. He gets banged up. It's just like they they they did feel pretty lifeless after a certain point. On plays where he was pressured, James finished three of 15 for 54 yards in this game. That's the start spring into the table. I'm glad you brought that up, Maze. You have next gen pulled up right now. I have a pull that right now. What were the Rams pressure numbers? 15% from Matthew Stafford. Okay. No, but what were their numbers on? James, like how often we're 59%. He's pressured 59% of his drivebacks. The stat that I had with like it was so low, I was like there's no way that's right because the minute the Rams got ahead by enough that they had to that the Giants had to throw, it just felt like James was under siege. I mean, every single piece of the Rams front was just doing whatever they wanted to those guys. So I figured it was high, but I'm glad to get confirmation. And his like he had some plays where he's holding onto the ball a little bit, but it didn't feel like every single play like he was holding onto it. It really did feel like it like they were just getting to him pretty quickly. Like the promise of the Rams having a bunch of waves in this game, even without Miles Garrett, I think you saw it tonight. I mean, even on like I hate to like talk about it with display, but like the dark play, like it's Josiah Stewart who's like winning around the edge and beating Andrew Thomas. It's like that's what you hoped for is that your guys off the bench even would be really, really good on this front. They had four guys that finished with two quick pressures each. Byron Young, Josiah Stewart, Braden Fisk and and Tyler Davis. And then Donald and McDuffie each added one. Donald got double teamed on 39% of his past rush voice in his first game in two years. They have not seen him play and they were like, we're not going to be the team that gets embarrassed first. By the way, I think it was Joe Bok during this game said that he's 280 right now. Bullshit. He's like 260 right now. Yeah. He was probably never 280 when he was playing really. He wasn't. And that's the dirty secret is that he played at a much lower weight than he was listed and he was still wrecking. Stopped. And so the idea that he's 280 right now is very funny. He is not. I would bet some money he is not 280. And that doesn't take away from what he could potentially be. Because when he was playing a couple years ago, that was not his week eight weight while he was the best defensive player in football, which speaks to just how absolutely ridiculous and one of one all-time freak show Aaron Donald actually is. The fact that the most dominant defense attacker, both of his generation and arguably that we have ever seen was playing at 40 pounds less, 35 pounds less than the average player at that position in the NFL. And was 35% better than almost all of them. He also I remember it happened like very shortly after I saw somebody posted his stats online. We're just like, you know, he doesn't have a tackle. He doesn't have a pressure as of yet. And immediately he was in on that TFL in short yardage where him and Cam Curle just shot in and took the back down in the backfield. And like, hey, the fact that we're like impatiently like tapping our wristwatches in his first game back in two years. Like, hey, do something incredible. Idiot. And then he did it like right after that is pretty awesome. I had a lot of. He hasn't played football. He hasn't played any football into three years. That's the thing happened. What a what an unbelievable legacy that you could not play this sport for two years. And we expect we kind of expected him to like be pretty hot out of the gate. And I think all things considered he did play like a pretty good game for having not played this sport for two years. He's unbelievable. He'll ramp up. And it's eight me. He played a decent amount of snaps in this game. I don't know what the final number was. I can get it for you guys really quickly. So over the course of this game, he did finish with 32 snaps. And you look at the defensive line rotation overall. That's him and Kobe Turner play the exact same number of snaps, 28 for Braden Fisk, 22 for Tyler Davis. And so it really does seem like it's just going to be a rotation among all of those guys. And I would not be surprised if If we saw him ramp up, even if it's not in playing time, just in quality that we feel him more over the course of these games, because I think that is the element of this that we probably just haven't talked or considered enough the fact that he hasn't just a feel of what it's like to be back out there hitting people, taking on blocks, like that's just stuff that's going to be impossible to replicate, especially in the very short time that he's been practicing. So I expect that we will have louder games from Aaron Donald, even if like you said, Derek, this was a, a worthwhile return and a pretty decent performance, all things considered. Anything else on this side of the ball that you guys want to sit with before we move on, I do think it's notable that the Rams played as much man coverage in this game as they did. It's not necessarily surprising. Obviously, you just have a lot less overall movement and moving parts to consider. I mean, teams don't play man against the Niners for a reason. I mean, just the amount of motion that you're getting having to deal with McCaffrey. There are really two players and I don't have the numbers specifically on this, but anecdotally, when you look at coverage rates around the NFL and how teams approach certain offenses with certain players, the two guys that make man coverage pretty much a no go when they've been at their best or just have been featured pieces within offenses have been Tyree Kill and Christian McCaffrey. Like those the two guys that when those are and they happen to be in the offenses that use the most motion. So it's a double whammy. Like when teams are playing against the Dolphins, there was not a lot of man coverage against Tyree Kill. When teams are playing against the Chiefs, there was not a lot of man coverage against Tyree Kill. And same for the Niners. And so to see the Rams ramp it up in this game, probably gives us a truer sense of their intentions and how they want to play after moving, making those moves a corner than what they did against the Niners. And I don't know if it was just because of the plan or them just feeling better rested, whatever it's going to be. I just thought the DBs looked better overall like Mick Duffie was quick lake. Yeah. Bigger gap between what we saw in week one week two than anybody else on that defense. Quentin Lake was horrendous in week one. And part of that is like the Niners clearly have an unbelievable plan for what they're going to do with Mike Evans and he was cooking him in that sense. But like the fact that Quentin Lake looked like the blinch pin middle of the defense piece that we thought he was going to look like on top of the corners, looking like what you paid for. And again, like I think with an 80% neighbors who even got banged up in this game and the rest of the giants receiving core, we'll see how well that plays out over the course of the season. But the fact that like already they've proven that this is something they can go to, it's it's again, how much it's going to matter after doing it against this team. I don't know. I don't think they could have even really done this last year with the corners that they had. Like with Kobe Durant and the manual fours being your starting guys like this wasn't going to work. I don't think. It's the last thing you want to do, you have to play the exact opposite way with those guys. And so it is. I just, I think people were confused and a little bit, it was a curious outing in week one when they didn't play much man coverage, considering the moves that they made at corner. But again, I wasn't surprised because it was the Niners. And so do they play it 50% of the time the way that they did tonight moving forward? I would say, I would guess probably not. My assumption is a probably land somewhere between what we saw in week one and what we saw tonight, but this was an example and I think a declaration from Crescendo that they're not going to be afraid to do it when the situation calls for it. On the other side of the ball, the Rams offense looks like the Rams offense without Pukin or Kua. Devote Adams, Matthew Stafford to Devote Adams is just very not even quietly, but is just a connection between two of the coolest players who played in the NFL over the last 15 years. Like that touchdown is it just in that moment. I was just like, oh, yeah, these are two of the coolest dudes that have played professional football in the last decade, which won because they were both pretty sick. The first one, the first one was so disgusting, but I love the fade too. But yeah, the first one was better. The fate is just what they've that's been their red zone for the last two seasons, even when Kua has been playing the cool part of that is like as soon as he threw it up, you're just like got it like in the back, like cash it. It's just like the fact that the connection feels like that when they're inside the 10, like that that part is pretty special. Is he the best red zone receiver of all time that's not taller than like six, four? I mean, I mean, the stats are hard to argue with even if Jay is saying currently is pretty nuts. That's a good one. We talked about that today. Jay said that today, like his, he's, he's pretty good. He too, like, I feel like it's a little bit different. I Devote. It's very different. The way they do it is so different on like the fades and just like the quick release stuff Devote is better. I feel like JSN is somehow always open in the back of the end zone, like on the back line, he's just always open. And so I guess it's a little bit different, but like he really is like the best, just fade ball or bullet slant winner for again, a guy who's not like he's not small, but he's not Mike Evans. And so it is a pretty fun distinction. The discord folks are going to love hearing this. And they, yeah, we're hearing some JSN love on the hangover tomorrow. Oh, we did like the whole show on that. We were levitating. We were levitating today, talking about JSN levitating that that's, that's what the entire conversation was between me and Derek about the game that JSN had yesterday. All right. Before we move on, let's take a quick break. The, the other elements of the offense aside from that connection, which was beautiful throughout the game. I mean, several just. Take to the heart explosives between Matthew Stafford and Devonta Adams over the course of this game. Really nice to see them back running the ball the way they were able to in this game. I mean, I don't know where exactly they finished. It was north to 55% rushing success rate on the ground. 54.2 28 carries for 163 yards, 5.8 to carry. And even that, I think is dragged down a little bit by multiple Matthew Stafford runs in this game, which, you know, at this point, just throw the ball out of bounds. Like, there is nothing in professional football right now that is less worth it than whatever he is going to do outside of the pocket with his legs on those plays. Just take, just take the L. Like, I don't even care about the two yards. Just throw the ball out of bounds and go to second and ten. I do think that's the right approach from him in those moments. He had multiple scrambles in this game. We don't need those. He collided with the equipment card with this, that can't happen. It can't happen. He needs like a get back coach or something. Somebody needs to remind him of that and I love the competitive spirit. I love that he's willing to do that stuff at 38 years old, but we're losing quarterbacks left and right in the NFL this week. We do not need it to be Matthew Stafford. Yeah. That was that was one of the only flaws I could come up with in his game. Other than, I mean, the interception to Devote was just really funny because he was like, is it open? No, it's not open. He might get it anyway. Then, Javon Holland, if you're looking for a bright spot in this, for this Giants team, Javon Holland was all over the damn place in this game trying to punch out the fumble like three different times. He had two forced fumbles and the pick of Stafford to steal a Dave Hellmanism that you like, classic too much dip on his chip moment from Matthew Stafford. I meant interception. That is an ultimate heat check after the way the first couple drives him and going. It's kind of, it's kind of charming when you are that hot where you're just like I'll let him have that one. What are you going to do? This is the thing between that and the scrambling. We just have to accept that he's more 40-year-old bread far than 40-year-old Aaron Rodgers and that's just going to be what it's going to be. The staff, the scrambling is a no-go. If you want to throw a one-gross pick against a team that you're clearly outclassing and you're just kind of playing with your food over the course of these four quarters, which it did feel like the Rams were for stretches of that first half. It was sloppier than it needed to be. That's fine. I remember when we were watching Philip Rivers in like 2019 and 2020, we joked that there was a force field around the line of scrimmage where it was impossible for him to move past the line of scrimmage. You would get an electric shock like a dog. That's what I want with Matthew Stafford. We should just have a shot collar on him, but if he's like cast the line of scrimmage he gets buzzed. I'm glad you said that though, because we talked about this in the preview, like the standards were holding this team to are unreal for good reason. And by the way, one thing I wanted to add about the Rams defense in the third or fourth quarter, they just cut to Miles Garrett hanging out in a hospitality suite. And I was like, oh, right, he's just he's not even doing this. And so this team has we aren't seeing him in street clothes. I know. He's so huge. It just he looks. He looks like Chris Evans in the in the Captain America movies and that's what he looks like when he's just standing there. He's wearing like a very nice tailored dress shirt. And I was like, I bet they had to sew like three shirts together to put it on that guy. Like I bet that things the size of like a fumigation tarp. That's actually not what I'm at. He looks like the animated CGI Bruce like, yeah, when he's wearing human clothes. That's what I was going to look like when he's wearing action. He feels like the opposite of what we said with Aaron Donald where he's listed it like 272. And I look at that. And I'm like, I don't know. And he's got to be bigger than that. He is 280 something. There's no way the point I wanted to make at the like at the start of that though was the expectations that come with this team. I think it's okay to say, yeah, they were bullshitting around for a little bit in the early going in this game. Like you had the Stafford heat check interception. Kiron had another fumble, which that number gets more alarmingly high on a regular basis. And they had a couple just very, I mean, they went three and out or like four and out to start this game. Like a couple very herky jerky drives. And I remember thinking when Stafford got sacked early in the third quarter, I was like, what's going on with these guys? And then immediately it's like they asked themselves the same question and they just ripped off like four 20 yard gains in a row and scored a touchdown, which it's really nice to see that gear, but a little more consistency would be nice. Yeah, there were some frustrating stretches of this game, but again, they ended with a 56% success rate. They average 8.2 yards per play. Yeah. By the time the game wrapped up, they, they got it together. They were cooking. I honestly, too, one thing I didn't even really, I wasn't really tracking this in like real time, but as I went back and through my notes, it was kind of interesting to me. So many of their best plays were against cover two, or at least cover two to like whatever side like the big Devonte Adams, like you starting to run that corner turns it back up. It's like, well, he's just crossing the face of the deep safety. Two of their touchdowns in the red zone were also like cover two beaters. Like the Kyron touchdown is super cool. I thought like we're discussing design. Absolutely, disgusting, especially against a rookie linebacker. And so they get one guy running out into the flat. He holds the corner. And then they get, I think it was one of the tight ends, maybe Ferguson runs like that deep like 10 yards starts to bend. And so Reese is sitting there in the curl. And he's like, well, I have to let this go vertical. And I need to help my safety a little bit. So he's sitting there. But then once it passes, he just gets a little bit flat-footed. And he's like, well, now what? And Kyron just sprints past him up the seam. And that's a touchdown. And then the Ferguson touchdown where Matthew Stafford just uses his eyes gets the pole runner to look one way. And he rips it back the other way like just the fact I just thought it was like I didn't track it in real time that all of their best plays were against cover two. But in the league that we live in, now like, that's where you got to hunt your best plays. And they, I thought, did an incredible job today. We don't talk about them in quite the same way as the Niners when it comes to how dangerous they are when they can get five out in the route and how good they are manipulating an attacking space. But they are one of those teams. They just do it in slightly different ways. Like their ability to get more guys out in the route than you might expect off play action is a defining character of this offense. And so those plays you're talking about are perfect examples. Like when you watch the Ferguson touchdown, they have it's Ferguson's on like a short post Adams is coming on one behind him. They have Kyron on the right side either in the backfield. They're kind of like he's he's off set but he's a little bit wide. He's almost like to the tackle. He runs a little angle route that kind of yanks down, Tramade Edmonds in that spot. And that creates the space right behind Tramade Edmonds for Stafford to fit that throw in a Terrence Ferguson. So you're right. I mean, a lot of their best moments in this game came on looks like that. But this offense I think is well equipped to attack those sorts of things. I think a couple of years ago, it was either last year or the year before, Stafford led the NFL and EPA for dropback against cover two looks, which is not surprising at all. I mean, you think about who in the league is most capable and committed to attacking whole shots. Matthew Stafford is probably at the top of that list. It's attacking the whole shots. And also like sometimes you got to throw it right under that safety when he might drive down. Stafford's like, yeah, of course, I can fit it in there. Why wouldn't I be able to? Yeah, obviously. Nice to see the Terrence Ferguson experience a little bit of a mixed bag in this game. That's where I was about to go. Remember last September when they, the red zone stuff with Devante was not working and they just kept doing it. That's how I felt about Terrence Ferguson in this game where it like they just couldn't get on the same page. And then in the second half, you had two drops in a row. One of them maybe less. The first one is not his fault. That one gets tipped. I mean, that's like, that's a tough catch. I was about to say that. It was a tougher catch because it glanced off for main Edmonds helmet. But like he's still, they just couldn't get it right. And like, and it kept happening. And I just was imagining McVeigh and Stafford being like, we can't afford to not target you. So we're just going to keep doing it. And then the get it. Which is happening. And it works. They got to touch down at the end. The one that he, the one that he actually, so he had one play early in the game. We didn't get his head around quick enough. Stafford puts it on him. That ball goes in complete. The one glances off a traumatic Edmonds helmet. Both of those are bang, bang plays. You'd like to see them made the fact that they were as like, and what kind of whatever. The one he drops on the left sideline is particularly, that's particularly tough because that is an insane throw by Matthew Stafford. That ball was thrown like three steps before Terrence Ferguson's out of his break. It is perfectly placed. And he somehow doesn't come, isn't able to hang on onto that one. Which that was the one that was most frustrating. That's a play that you have to make. But the fact that they came back to him multiple times on the next drive, I think that he's going to be part of their plans and they can't afford for him to lose faith at this point in the season. I mean, not to, I'm not being flippant to shit on the Giants, but in a game where it's in the hand and you are very confident you're not going to let it slip. Get the young guys some work target Terrence Ferguson. Get him in a flow and get those opportunities in a situation where the stakes aren't very high. The other thing that I think is worth pointing out he last year, he was his usage was incredibly specific. But he was out there when they were in 13 personnel. He was the vertical player in those looks. Now I can't remember who it was and I apologize for not getting this right, but he played more snaps in 11 personnel in the first two weeks. And he did like all of last season. And so he's just going to be a more featured piece within their passing game because of the things that they're asking him to do then he ever was last year. And that was a thought coming in. I mean, I thought he might have a pretty productive year. And even if tonight was a little uneven, I don't think the first half usage from last week and then just the overall snap share and how often he was on the field tonight. Nothing that I've seen over the first two games leads me to think he's not going to be a big part of what they're trying to do offensively. Anything else you guys want to hit from this one kind of a stinker coming out of week two, huh? I do have something else. Let's talk about special teams specifically the Rams special teams specifically. Again, if this was anybody else, I don't think I'd care, but it's super bowl or bust for the LA Rams and they missed a field goal in the two-minute drive, which could have been so incredibly impressive if they had pulled it off. It didn't need to be that hard. Sean McVey wasted a timeout challenging a virtual spot, which even knowing that Sean Bay loves burning timeouts, I that one kind of took my breath away. And so like the end of half field goal situation doesn't go your way. And then they botched the third quarter kickoff and pinned themselves on their own 10 of their own doing. And it's just not it's not what I want from the team that said that they're improving their special teams. It's it's a nitpick after you win comfortably on Monday night football. It's important though. Yeah, it is. It's it literally lost them the Seahawks game last year. Like it's going to matter. It's important. You you cannot let this shit go with the considering the margins that are going to define this team season and what they have to do to be successful. I would be pissed if I were Sean McVey and not knowing Sean McVey. He probably is. I want to be very clear about what I'm about to do. I'm not making fun of this person because I I'm not in the best shape of all time. It is very funny the way that we're talking about Miles Garrett. And then every time they flashed to me this before he's about to get off. He looks like somebody that's playing a beer league football game. It's just the gap the gap between some of the players wearing that uniform over the course of this game for the Rams. It's just very funny to me. Every time I see him, I'm like good for him. It's a perfect sport. It's like some version of like when Derek Henry and Dion Lewis played on the same team together. And it's like, how are these two doing the same thing? I need this highlight shot of Miles Garrett standing next to him or just like him standing between Miles Garrett and Aaron Donald three of the most beautiful specimens that have ever played this sport that we love. All right, that's all we've got for tonight. If you're listening to this on the podcast feed, the Monday hangover should be available to you guys right now. Derek and I, as we said, a little bit earlier, dug into Seahawks cardinals, talked about chiefs cults. It's so nice that the chiefs offense is fun to watch again. I just am so happy that the chiefs are an enjoyable team to watch again. It makes my Sundays so much better. And then we also chatted a little bit about Steelers Patriots, which has the exact opposite sort of feel to the conversation that we had about the chiefs. So those are the three games that we had encourage you guys to go check that out. If you have not for now, that's all we got. Appreciate you listening. We'll talk to you very soon.