MNC: White on his England exit, will Carrick continue & Frank to Palace?

This BBC Podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. Formula One is all about precision, tiny margins, massive ambition, flat out performance. And that's exactly why it's exciting to see Cadillac entering Formula One, bringing an American luxury brand with performance pedigree onto the biggest stage in motorsport. But this isn't just about the grid. That same racing mindset, the obsession with engineering, the pursuit of perfection, lives in the Cadillac V Series lineup, giving you the chance to experience the precision and performance of the grid on the open road. Cadillac V Series, distinctive luxury performance, engineered to thrill. Discover the V Series lineup at Cadillac.com. Host thanksgiving with industry leading quality standards from Whole Foods Market. There are no antibiotics in their meat department ever. So carve up Turkey and spiral cut ham with peace of mind. Shop organic sides like stuffing mix and cranberry sauce from 365 brand. And guess what? All their delectable pies are made with no high fructose corn syrup. Gourmet Thanksgiving Flavors with the quality you want only at Whole Foods Market. It is the Monday Nightclub, Joe Hart, Rory Smith, Chris Sussan with us. Congratulations Chris. Yeah, no thank you yet, another grand daughter. Daily Earth is £6.7, £6.7. Can I do that? Sorry Joe, I was really happy. All the people I would never thought about you. Thank you Joe. Yeah, thank you. I imagine the years to come, man. How are you granddaddy, Grandpa? Oh, are you granddaddy? I'm Papa, Papa, Papa. How Papa did you, did you announce my birth? Wow, I do a terrible TikTok meme, whatever it is. Yeah, no, I went to see it today. And I think she liked me. Yeah, and and fair play to the mum. It wasn't a straightforward burn. The mum, Poppy, amazing. She lost a lot of blood and the baby came out a bit back to front and whatever. And then just when she needed that strong husband, my son, he fainted in the toilet. Come on. He's got to do better. He has to do better, but I mean, you know, she's strong, but she's in pain. I mean, was it a proud, was that a proud dad moment? Was it Chris? This is incredible. That's when you need your partner there. Yeah, have you given him a good talking to? I'm not, I think it's important to ask a partner. I hope he's okay Chris. Yeah, so yeah, good point, Joseph. Is he okay? Yeah, no, I mean, let's not talk about him. Mother and baby well. Mother and baby, I'm sorry, well, excellent. Joe, Chris, Rory, with us, we'll start with the four-all at Old Trafford, but we'll talk palace, we'll talk great team talks, we'll look at power, strikers. Sam Dean in the telegraph rated all eight goals in the four-all drawer at Old Trafford, ranked by stupidity. The number one stupid one for him out of the eight was your own nearly scoring an own goal for no reason that Goretska scrambled in. And the least stupid goal was Yuri Tillamans, which he described as with a competent goal, interestingly, and I'm not having to pop here early on. Sure. The Suzuki flappy at the corner was his second on the stupidity calamity rating. Yeah, well, of course, let's hammer Suzuki because he's done so well to start with, and people have been dead nicer about him. So he's had a few bad moments. I say everyone piling on him and making the worst goal in the Premier League. Come on to it. We'll come on to that goal in particular in a little while. It was very odd, Rory, for a four-all drawer, to not have really one goal that felt worthy of a four-all draw, or any kind of thrill about it at the final whistle. I mean, I was there, you say, and it was so weird to cover post-match in that, it felt like both teams had lost, if I'm honest with you. Yeah, it felt very silly, I think. Watching it, it felt like, I mean, I was involved in a thrilling three-two win at under-ten's level this Sunday morning. And that felt like an altogether more sensible game before. Did you come back from 2-0 down? No, my son's draw a last minute winner to win two-three-two. Oh, there you go. That's pride in your offspring, Chris. That's how you do it. Give him time. Give him time. You can see in a free kick and go on a sort of small rampage at one point. We'll gloss over that. Give him time in 15 years time, he'll be fainting in a hospital toilet somewhere. Yeah, and I think at the end, I was able to understand Villa's frustration at dropping two points twice, effectively. And I think for United, what I found strange just watching on TV was how empty Old Trafford was when when that fourth Goldo's in, and you expect this sort of huge kind of these scenes that you dropped out to Roma in midweek. But the place, because everyone had given up, the place was half empty, and it gave it quite an eerie feel. Maybe they did have a very, it had a very eerie feel. But I mean, nobody could take any positives out of it. Can they, Chris? I think with 85 minutes gone, I think Michael Carrick can take a positive out of it. Just make it, make keep him in a job, I think it's just clouded the whole situation, not that anybody really knows what's going on behind the scenes at Manchester United and the thought process. But in the end, it was another, it was another comeback. So he would be the one, I suppose, who could take a bit of comfort. But I think Rory's covered that pretty well, as it was, you know, it was a very odd game in itself. Let's look at the bigger picture then, Joe, which is united and the times that they are conceding goals at the moment. Come on to the villa side of things in a moment. The first team in Premier League history, interestingly, to come from two goals down twice in the same game. I don't know whether that's a positive or a negative, really. Inside three minutes and 40 seconds, Villa were two nil up yesterday. Inside seven minutes and 15 seconds of the second half, they were four two up. United against Roma during the week were two nil down inside 17 minutes. A way to Como, they got their first to Como inside two minutes, a kickoff, three minutes after half time. Athletica Madrid away, the opening goal was inside 60 seconds. That's not bad luck. That's a pattern, isn't it? It is, and Michael Carrick will be under a lot of pressure, of course, as the Manchester United manager, but at no point does he set his team out to go out and fall to pieces in the first 10-15 minutes. So it makes it so difficult. It shows that no one's afraid of Manchester United. Absolutely nobody at any level. They're very much their team talks quite simple. Obviously, you can tactically discuss things all week. You can have your patterns of play, but there's no secret planning against Manchester United recently. If you fly out the blocks, you've got a good chance of getting a real foothold in the game, putting them under massive pressure. They're making really bad decisions. They're tactically all over the place when they cross the line. They look like they need some time to build into the game, to prep into the game. And the Premier League and the Champions League doesn't give you that. It's just the uncertainty around all traffic at the moment, Mark. I think it speaks volumes. And obviously, Rory touching on Chris talking about the stadium being empty by the end. Like, Man United, do not know whether they're coming or going at the moment. And obviously, we're going to be talking about them in other jobs. They're the first people that you talk about. But there's so much football, such a high level. And Ashton Villa, like we say, we're hardly going to get any airtime, probably, for Sunday's performance. But they'll be so disappointed they walked away without winning that game. Oh, wait, we will delve into Villa in just a moment. But bearing in mind there for what Joe has said and the patterns that we've talked about, do you not go tactically, and maybe they are doing, and the players just aren't listening, do you not go Chris? We're going to have to be pragmatic here. And we're going to have to be tight for the first 10, 15 minutes because we cannot afford to keep going one or two, kneel down. Is that the opening 10 minutes? Yeah, I mean, we're 10 games into the Premier League season. They've had champions league football, as well, league cup football. You would have thought that eventually the penny will drop. I just think if you keep it simple and the stuff about the early goals, and that would come down to concentration. But if you look at the Manchester United back line and you compare it to most defenders in the Premier League, they're just not very good. I think in all competitions, they've conceded as many goals as, I think, in the top five. There's conceded 30. No side in Europe's big five leagues have conceded more. No side in Europe's big five. I mean, that's that staggering in itself. So you know, whether they're conceding early, they're just, you know, without that, that's dammit, they're just conceding. And, you know, you look at the, you know, substitution half time, McGuire, you know, had an injury and they're bringing, you know, brought a heaven on. And he just looks like a player who is just, you know, he's a young kid, but he just looks shot to pieces. Dallow was, you know, over the years, I don't know, Manchester United fans rate him, but, you know, he's been, he's been a good steady player, but he just looks a shadow of himself. You, you look across, you know, that, that backline and they've just got huge, huge issues. And Michael Carregorfter, again, trying to take positives out of them. Two co-dallas been there for nearly 10 years. I, I, the, I, the United Fan Friend of mine. So to me, he's always the wrong player in the right place. I, good, Diego Dallas, a good player. Hmm. I've, I, you're not having that. So don't, hmm, because I saw you, I saw you face when Chris said it, but I, I think a good, a good Diego dallow in a team that's working, it is a good player, but as you say, and as Chris touched on there, like the decisions that are being made, you know, the penalty straight after half time, they're just kind of almost, I think a lot of these players will look back in years to come and feel like it's almost an outer body experience, how they're performing at the moment on the, on the highest level, because there's no doubt if they do move on or if they don't, if they don't, is it just their level, Joe, though? You're saying, it's the highest level, but is it just their level this season? They, you know, they, they kidded everybody on last season. What I think they're all capable more than capable players to play at the level they showed they did, they, they did, that's what I'm saying that I think at some point, and, you know, your career goes way too quickly, but at some point, they'll look back at this time and it's, you know, maybe this start to the season as an outer body experience, and be like, why, what, you know, not blaming anyone else if you can really self reflect, watch themselves, watch their clips back, I think, what, what on earth was I doing? Because I've done it, I've done it, I've done it, I've felt it, I've one minute I've been walking on water, thinking anyone can shoot at me, not a problem, anyone can put a cross in, pass it back to me, and then the same body, the same player, the same training, and I'm thinking, oh my God, I'm, I'm petrified if anything coming anywhere near my goal. They're the ebbs and flows, and when you've got a few in your team doing that, like Manchester United do, it's a really difficult place to come back on. Did that, sorry, right, did that happen in the, within the, the same situation at the same club, or was it when you change clubs? Because I think you're right on Dallar, I mean, if Dallar, let Lindelof's the prime, but most players who have left United in the last five, ten years, do better elsewhere, and you can guarantee that if Dallar was signed by, you know, Emry, or went to Brighton, or, or Forest, he'd look like the next Kaffoo. So, so, because that's how it seems to work at the moment, but was it, if you're in, was it by changing clubs, you felt that, or was it within the same club environment, those exact terms and flows? Almost in the, in the same club environment, because you do, I, I, I didn't, I felt that once you, once you get on the wrong side of it, it's, there's, there's not much coming back. It's, you, you start, you go from being, or I went from being, I can't talk for all players, but so positive. So how can I, how can I affect this game in a positive way? How am I going to win this game for my team, or is a goalkeeper? How am I going to save this game for my team? What can I do? Who can I help? What position am I going to be in? Who's having a tough game? How to thinking, geez, I need to just make sure I tie my laces right today and my gloves are, my gloves are spotless, because, and it's such, it's, I don't know, Chris, if you ever felt that, but it's, it's natural. No, you did it. But, yeah, but I, I can only imagine that you were thinking, cross that ball in, I'm going to absolutely nail everyone and I'm going to score, and then some of each of you can please don't cross. I don't want to chance, because I don't even feel I can get any power. It's, it's the ebb and flow of being a professional footballer, and that's, you know, it's not expected to feel sorry, but the best ones and the really good ones can get through those patches and, and, and they do when they make it work and they make that a, and normally rather than a normal. And the thing on, on the human side of it, rather than the sort of rabbit, don't you start training footballers like humans, watch out for them. Don't you dare. See the effect you have on me, Joe, but, but you can see the, you could see the human side of it on the United Players after, after four minutes. Yes, though. Well, I, I was going to say that, I think Joe used the word petrified, and it's, it's really interesting. The, the, the, the instinct is maybe to first say, well, look, the, as you say, chapters, it's a pattern United can see it early. So the instinct is to say, right, is that something they're doing wrong. And I, I'm not qualified, but I would guess that since it started happening, all of Manchester United players are saying to each other, let's not translate in the first 10 minutes. Let's just keep it really tight. Let's know mistakes. Don't, you know, full focus, whatever the bus words that they use are. Let's not have this happen again. We don't want it to become a pattern. The fact that it does, I think, probably, isn't concentration. I think it's probably nerves. And we, from outside football, we think of this stuff as having to be like nervousness would manifest as, like going jelly-led, and not being able to walk, and how you or me would feel if we walked out into a Premier League day mark, like you, like I'm overwhelmed. I don't belong here. Oh, that's how I feel. You might not be, you might have been more swindering your step. But I think at that level, it's a momentary hesitation. And the players might not be able to be aware they're doing it. They're just the first, I think, was the other someone through the leg? Was that the first goal? Yes. Yes. Where there was that little sort of beat where no one went for the ball. And it looked like a team that was so kind of petrified to use Joe's word, of putting a foot runner, of making a mistake, that they couldn't make a decision just for half a second. And that's all it takes, does that's how high the level is? And I think that is the impact. Harry Medwaya said after they beat Ipswich, they went a goal down in that game. And he said, the problem is that, yes, as Manchester United, you feel as though the crisis is coming straight away. And I think there's that in a lot of their heads. Joe, in all of this, as well, Chris, and we can look at heads and we can look at how they start games. There was a bit of analysis around United last season, that when they had Casamiro on the pitch, they conceded a goal roughly every 110 minutes. When he was not on the pitch, they conceded a goal every 31 minutes. That was it. Yeah, that's an incredible. Yeah. And you know, Casamiro came in for a lot of criticism. Yeah, but wrong way, if you look at those stats. Yeah. And that's, I mean, that's, that's lit. I mean, I totally agree with everything Rory said about, you know, it's, you know, it's like a concentration, but then there's that, then there's that fear element that doubt element. And then you're looking for leadership and that, you know, he said about Casamiro there. I mean, that's, you know, that's what, that's what he was then. He was, he was the organizer. So, you know, have they replaced that? Well, they haven't replaced it. I just don't see unless they're a major personnel changes at Manchester United, though, in that, in that back line. I mean, it, our things really going to change, you know, who, who is leading at the back? Who do you trust? Well, and the other thing with that, Joe, as Ashley Young said to me yesterday, it's not, it's not leading, you know, with an arm band on, like belt in your chest and this and the other. It's simple things like, and he used Michael Carrick as an example when he played with him. Carrick would say to him, just be a bit to your left. Be a bit to your right. What, whatever it may be, and talking through the games, Casamiro, for all the criticism may have been about his legs or this and the other, would have all would have organized United, would have talked to his teammates. United at the moment, a little, I've got nobody who's saying anything to anybody. Yeah, and they've, they've got no one who, you know, Youngies talked about Carrick being vocal. You can have some players who don't say a word, but you just know them, you know their movements and your team is dictated around how they behave and how they're going to be on the pitch. And, you know, as you say there, Mark, Man United at the moment, this is going to be a tough way of putting it because you say no one trusts each other, makes it sound like they're all suspect of each other and they don't trust them, they don't, no one, no one trusts themselves enough to put pressure on someone else. They're that, they're that focused on what they're doing personally, internally, especially the defensive line, which a defensive line, when you've really got a good defensive line, it's, it's thoughtless. There's no thoughts. It's thoughtless. It's completing that to trust in each other. The best defensive lines I've been in, completing that to trust. Any, any, anything that's gone wrong can be dealt with with a glance and a nod and a don't worry about it. And when you've got real problems, that's when you see the arms waving, that's when you see people gesticulating to the crowd, making sure the crowd know that I will, it was not my fault, it's someone else's fault. And at the moment, Man United, it just seems, and this is not them isolated. This is, I've experienced it in football, so I'm not, I'm not saying that there in any, anything against them for it, but as a team, you're watching a bunch of people just trying to take care of their own business in terms of they, they're not trusting themselves enough to do their job to put the pressure on someone else. And that just gradually grows and grows and grows and it feels like everyone's got that feeling at the moment. And we're talking about the back for that. And then it's clearly having an effect on the goalkeeper. Yeah, lemon. Yeah. You know, he, he looks like, I mean, you look at the goals which went in, I mean, I thought he was badly at fault for the first goal. People say, well, you know, he's, he's, you know, he was a little bit unlucky. I just, he was going to ask you, Joe, on a technical side. Yeah. I'm a goalkeeping expert, but you used to set your feet quite wide. Yeah. And he did, he did that yesterday, but he, he, he couldn't move his legs together quickly. He just seemed like he was, his legs were too wide apart for the first goal. Yeah. I think if you are going to go wide, I think he's in a position where he was. was when you go when you go wide technically you're basically saying to the striker or to the forward I'm committing to the space around me because once you go wide you can't go in the corner and sometimes that's kind of a I used to do it a lot especially probably towards the end because I knew that I wouldn't I knew I wouldn't necessarily be able to tip it out the top corner or at the bottom corner like my body used to let me but I was basically saying to the striker you're gonna have to really beat me because if you want to take that that's safe route down the middle I'm set to break legs or in break legs as a technical term to snap one leg away to use the other to cover it and I feel like Lamonds has just got himself in that 50/50 position where he wants to try and like he's going the other way of when you're in a bad moment he's trying to cover all bases and not actually he didn't end up doing anything in that incident. Is that a technical thing with him then Joe you know that sort of wide stance that you know he can't he can't react what would you be what would you be telling him to do would you be advising him something different. I'd be if I were to really look at it I felt like he was he was aware that it could take a deflection or it could when it goes through bodies you've really got to really got to zone in on what you what you think you can you can't save because once you start you know expecting a deflection or something like that I feel like you don't need to have that in your locker that's just someone that comes with instinct and sometimes you make the save where you lay on the floor after it catches someone's ankle or someone's boot and you think geez that was a good say well I have no idea I did it I think he's looking to make too many saves with with the movement across the goal and rather than saying look what was he he wasn't far out so the striker was the was the favorite in that in that circumstance in terms of having the whole goal but he would never expect once it left his foot he was never expecting to score that goal so lamonds I think we'll have a look at it he'll he'll be analyzing it and I think that crept a little bit into the second goal where he's second guessing himself as a goalkeeper and at the moment he just needs one of those steady gains but it just feels like from his point of view it just feels so noisy for him as a Manchester United goalie when he came in everything seemed calm and it just seemed tranquil it seemed like he everyone knew where he stood and what he was doing I noticed it with a goal going past him a few a few weeks ago that went under him was it his was his game now is another defender well but just even how the man United players reacted after he dropped the second one like none of them were ready for him to drop it because they they know how good a goalkeeper is they know that he usually just falls on them so was almost thinking about what the next phase of play was it is he going to roll it to us and then it's just yeah to the uncertainties definitely there that leads back to everything which Rory said about you know the fear the doubt I mean the second the second one which you talk about I mean I thought I thought he he wanted to catch it he didn't he didn't sort of push his arms away like he wanted to par it I mean that is I mean that is such a soft goal to let in he should be I mean it do hundreds of catches every week and not even I mean it's like to be like shelling Lee through so he his instinct was Paul goes through his instinct and his body said catch it but then he's kind of old Trafford madness moment mind went careful and that that slight indecision from doing what naturally is instinct to him last season he'd have fell on he'd have caught and he'd have got on with business it's just you just it sounds like I'm making this all about Manchester United but I'm just saying I I know that feeling but when you've got too many players in your team with that feeling what happens happens it's a fascinating point that because I thought last season with him he was amazing at not a not par it actually keeping hold of stuff not parrying stuff that particularly low shots he he would gather them he's handling was so secure and he had that one moment in the world cut when he came on for Belgium and paraded it back out against Spain yeah and you do wonder how much of a doubt that that plus the whole general atmosphere yeah I think I think he walked in and took over the gloves last season and everything seemed to to work because he's like I said people that sign for Manchester United really the very very good footballers like you could stick them you know isolated up against you know a lot of people that will share it at their TV he's not even good enough to play this level like trust me they're all premier league elite players but just in the circumstance that they're in there they're the second guessing themselves but you you look at I mean I know that 10 of his name is more just two in its sense at United but Andrea Nana was a really good goalkeeper before he got to United I was excited to see him in the Premier League Roy like a lot of people stuck it on my toes or when I've seen him I accidentally enter he can he can keep gold he's a little bit extravagant but trust me he's going to like this place up and then you know the team didn't play to the level and obviously he didn't play to his level and next minute he's petrified of a ball coming to the box whereas previously when he signed he'd have been saying cross it shoot do what you want I'm ready and from a villa point of view Chris was that worrying no no no I think it was a bit of a one off you know is is any villa fan worried about villa is any villa player worried about villa I don't I don't think so with with Unimary in charge there was a softness about them at the you know at the end they you know they I mean twice you know they they're two goals up and they they let it slip that would be a disappointment you know the the nature of the goal's not not stopping the cross for Zerke and and and the last goal I think Suzuki has been excellent all season has just had these couple of slips hasn't he the game against Fulham and and and and the corner yesterday I mean I you know he is he's looked good on everything but crosses I think Unimary commented on that but I mean when you say was it a worry you know do I think villa will finish in the top six which which would be an achievement absolutely I think that they're a superbly organized side I think Nicholas Jackson is it is going to be a revelation for them I like the look of men Zambie but if we go back to our discussion last week without revisiting it about villa going to the next level or what level they are at that's the kind of game to go to the next level they should have seen out isn't it I think it's hard to go to the next level when you have as much change as they had over the summer and they lose the amount of big players which they did lose and then expect the team to even perform at the level which they did last season you know I thought there'd be a bigger drop off I think that you know I I think that they're they're fine it's a really made this point about a month ago about the league it's such a strange league this season you know it looks awesome gonna run away with it but sort of everybody else looks like they can be you know everybody else to brighten that to some to some extent yeah Brighton I'm bright and could be the biggest the biggest challenges but I don't I just think villa you know villa was sloppy they you know they lost the game against against Barcelona well beaten in that and that was yeah that was that that was a sore one who and I'm re was clearly frustrated as far as interview after the game he was you know clearly angry about that but you know as a whole absolutely nothing to worry about as far as I can see could you make your case and obviously you know I'm ready is beyond reproach everyone knows he's he's an outstanding manager I'm after last week I'm not going to be criticizing Ashton Villa on the air but the substitutions they made to see it out and buy for director and buys 18 hemmens from again I think hemmens is nineteen and magio for Jackson lay on magio 17 and I was in not fully coming back to full fitness that's a gamble I mean I guess the the mid to date and certain circumstances for Emory is he probably thought United would done so he's maybe thing to lose his fine they're all hugely talented footballers and buys a great threat on the counter that makes sense hemmens played a lot but it's still like it's still old Trafford it's I don't think age I don't think age matters in in that respect it's you know it's about everything which he sees in training and that's that's trust I mean it you know it wouldn't been a sort of charity substitution putting young kids on it you know he trusted them that they'd go on and see the game through and but they are young players I'm not I'm he will have I don't think any I don't think any of those individual substitutions is a stupid idea and I think he's kind of thinking oh this is this is soccer aid now I can do what I like I think the tough game soccer aid mate Charlie I can only I can only apologize for for his disrespect he's on I talk to them yeah I know the he's not like being non-Robby Williams is mate you know I mean he's bringing on a high quality footballer but at the same time I wonder if the compound effect is that when you do sort of out almost out of nowhere get this suddenly it's 4-3 not 4-2 you don't quite have as much experience on the pitch as you would have if Leon Gareth still was still there I mean there are just some things that can't be explained on that Villa Joe on 15 of their 17 away Premier League games under Unai Emmery when they've led by two or more goals the two they haven't won have both been at Old Trafford losing 3-2 and then drawing four all he's managed eight matches as an away team at Old Trafford in English football his team has had seven different leads during the course of that against Merinio, Solshar, Tenhag, Amriem and Karik and he hasn't won any of them I mean it's it's just one of those inexplicable things yeah for such an amazing manager and you felt that frustration did they get sucked into that kind of lull in Old Trafford that we talked about the fact that hardly anyone was in the stadium but I think the debrief off that he'll be you know I agree Chris I don't think there's any problems there but for a manager with his standards of his team and whatever subs you make like. he'll be he'll be fuming that a lot of his squad won't be there on today for him to discuss that with because he's such a and I think he'll be waiting for them when they get back not to not to kill them not to ruin them It's not it's not that kind of moment in the season, but he's got to ask some huge questions and he needs to get you know for them to move on from that game They really got to put it to bed as a team any issue with the equalizing girl from a goalkeeper's point of view No, none at all, none at all. I think you know we were talking off air and I think you know couldn't just go every right to be where he is and I think Suzuki's got that ball coming in I think you were talking that the boys were saying on the on the panel he's a big lad just come and smash it Well, yeah, that's what they said yesterday. Well if it was that easy then everyone no corner every corner will be a waste of time wouldn't it? But I think I'll say that back to rowing next time. No problem. No, I know I will do I will do but no I'm Joe. I get what they're saying but you know, I think Suzuki I think it's that last moment. It's changed to four three. I think you know I put myself in his position Lamonds comes across him and when he makes that decision to come I think for all the bodies and everything that's going on he makes that decision lamonds is kind of flying at him But doesn't hit him he thinks right I'm coming and Kunya like I say was every right to be there strong lad And once your once your eyes on the ball and you're not taking your periphery you don't see him and once you hit that brick wall of a you know strong athletic Person like Matthias Kunya you just like oh no, I'm done. I'm absolutely done took his eye off it didn't have his strength going through Through the man and he was ended up laughing Five life sports don't miss out on a whole world of life sport With the BBC sounds out get access to the biggest sporting moments as they happen on five sports extra Sports extra two and sports extra three Champions in Paris for the first time roll through the live radio dial and put yourself at the heart of the action This is the Monday nightclub with Mark Chapman on the football daily podcast Not even for us no longer in the relegation zone the beat Manchester City Three one will talk Liam Delap in a moment will talk Delap and Brian probably and how they led the line for their respective clubs But before we get on to the players all of a glasner Said or it believed that the result was in part down to Ryan Yates's pre-match Team talk Glasner said as follows the last words before we go out from the captain to the team so Ryan Yates spoke this time I've played more than five hundred games as a player I've managed five hundred games as a manager and I've never heard such an inspiring speech to the team So it is credit to him Chris as a keynote a motivational speaker yourself Would you do that kind of thing off the cuff or would you would you properly prepare that? Well, Ryan Yates is a he's a nothing and boy isn't he? Yeah, you know came up through the sister I think that comes from the heart stuff like that But Ryan Yates has been there along he was their last season You know my one query would be why didn't Ryan Yates make that speech at the start of the last season And maybe they'd have been a lot better off you do this every time we're not in forest when When Oliver class and you use Chris Wood to advise the strikers on how to score You made the point why doesn't he just play Chris Wood so he can score rather than So every time every time there's a speech at not in forest you pick a fault with it Yeah, I'm just you know I don't Yeah, Oliver Glasner I mean last week it was about the old no concessions Wasn't it and then you know they have this speech it was about them I mean just do you think when Liam Delap was marauding up the pitch and whacking it right footed in the top corner And the same with the with his brilliant left foot and finish he was thinking about Ryan Yates's speech at that time I think about all he's what come on This is a sincere question Do we have to say that every time we ask him? Depends how start class the question to sound how many times in your careers did you hear a speech from a player Or a manager that you would genuinely inspired by because I'm going to suggest that I think that it was right me that especially in like a polydlock game I don't know how inspiring any of it to be I think my self-personally specific example But my self-person and everyone's different you know some people are eye rolling at that speech in a dressing room Myself person I love nothing more than being around people who wore their heart on their sleeve And made it clear that whatever we were about to do in the next 90 minutes or 100 minutes However you word it that we were together and all the tactics in the world Something that would get me going is aggressivity, fighting together, sticking together But you're all given of course they're given when you break them down in the cold light of day But there's nothing better than being part of people feeling like it's us against the world And if we go out there and perform to any kind of level no matter what happens we're going to be sticking together It is a great place to be It is a great place to be and when it works And I think at City we had plenty of times Vincent Company spoke very well And obviously Chris you know you talk about Ryan Yates being a knotting and boy And Kalamagrega was the best I've been around at Celtic in terms of I knew that he meant every single word Not questioning that some people don't but when it comes from someone who's part of that club and part of that city It's a good place to be Do you think it sometimes has to be done before a game against the right opponents? So to look and I have no idea what Ryan Yates said exactly But that kind of us against them aggressivity Right we've got to get ourselves out of this etc Might be easier to deliver before you play Manchester City at home As a part well you know I'm not going to say I know what you're trying to say but there's no you can't do them all the time They can't be because that's because you know Ryan Yates and I'm sure I don't know Ryan at all I don't know anything about him But I think he knows he can't come in and walk in and say whatever he said Every single day in training or every single every single away game for example Because like I say it wears thin But when you really really feel it And it's there would have been a bit of attention in that dressing room Manchester City come to town I think it was very apparent that they can be got out of the moment They're in a little bit of a little bit of a phase But you need someone to be brave enough to say Like this is a great opportunity Whereas if you're quiet in that dressing room can it be seen as much of an opportunity? Or of course we can see the first goal this could be a struggle For someone to kind of just flip a 49-51% narrative in a dressing room From you know could have been negative So just stick his head above and stick his chest out and say let's have it I think it can be really helpful I was just going to say that Henry the fifth waits for Agin to offer the bid speak Doesn't he? He doesn't do it before one of the smaller battles He's not like this is a little strap in the forest I'm going full with you But surely if you're playing a team in and around you That would be the time you'd do it wouldn't you? No I know what you mean Sometimes there's just moments Like whether it was planned or whether it was And sometimes it can flop I was quite vocal and sometimes I hear myself speak And in my head it's sounding so much better than it actually was And you feel like That isn't resonated Or I hope we win I hope we win and when we're talking about it on Monday Someone goes to me What was that? But sometimes it's just a moment And like I say especially when there's a little bit of uncertainty like forest Are in a difficult position in terms of league position But you know they're not playing badly They're not bad players So maybe just gave them that little bit of spark And that little bit of belief And I think Oliver Glyzen is looking for a nice narrative to come out of it You know he's looking to make it very positive Using someone like Ryan Yates is a great example You know to be for the forest fans to kind of identify with him And he's whacked him with a stickle week Hasn't he? He's got the naughty boy Chris were you ever inspired? No well the only speech I really remember Was Roy Hodgson at Blackburn I wasn't playing in the game We were four nil down against Arsenal at half time And there was sort of arguments That sort of picking up runners and what have you And then the cup of the lads were like Go on next goal Next goal is the important one And Roy Hodgson He said don't be so ridiculous He said we cannot win this game Anybody who thinks we can get back into this game Absolutely diluted Don't be stupid And we won the second half one nil He was actually right, wasn't he? I mean great Arsenal team That was when a nilca had just come on to the He was like a young kid Dennis Burkamp put them ahead But that was quite strange for a manager to go down that route But after the game he said That's pretty sensible advice Wasn't it? Moving on to the two strikers then By the way that was also The most rory bit of the show That was quite Henry the fifth and all of that I thought that was It was an open goal for you wasn't it? It's right there I nearly said it but I thought Roy's got them I just went down my route People that expect all sorts from this show Yeah they do Most of it bad Yeah exactly You were out of something and actually yesterday to see Brian Robbie and you will have seen Liam Delap's performance on Saturday. Deon Douglas had a match the day last night. If it's a centre-half, the centre-forward you're marking is stronger than you, then create as little physical contact as possible. Well, Robbie and Delap want as much physical contact as possible, don't they? Yeah, I think there's slightly different in Delap is more of a channel runner than Robbie. That was what I would have seen the highlights probably. His display was absolutely awesome. In Sunderland, who were in a precarious position at the bottom of the table, probably don't have that real confidence and belief to build from the back and they went into him. And Levi Colwell's a good defender. I mean, Moreska said last when he was at Chelsea, how much they missed him. But it's amazing. I just think his ego got the better of him and that happens with defenders where I thought he thought he could match Robbie and he absolutely couldn't remember Mike Tyson, Trevor Burbick back in the day. I mean, it was like that. Trevor Burbick thought he could go toe-to-toe and he just got smashed out of sight and there's the same Nicole. He got hooked at half time. And, you know, I always think back to players like Maldini. How would he have played him? And I think Deon made the point. You can't get too tight to a player like Robbie because as soon as I'm going to use the play center for myself, as soon as you feel the center half, you know you can roll him. You know you can got him. You know you've got him. You're in a brilliant position. But he was, you know, we talk about it at nine and a half and, you know, false nines and all this. He was an awesome watch. It was. You couldn't take your eyes off him. I mean, it was an incredible performance. I cannot imagine any center half relishing playing against him. You know, he was he was absolutely brilliant. He bullied the Chelsea backline. And, yeah, I mean, it's, you know, it's interesting to talk about Manchester United and, you know, the position there and in the league and, and Sunderland this season and thinking maybe Europe will be too much. You know, watching them live yesterday, I'd thought that that was that was the Sunderland of last season. It really was. And they had a terrible result. They were booed off against the grab on Thursday night. And you're thinking, blind me, maybe a bit of trouble here. But not if, not if they perform like that. And the other, the other good performer for them was a player I'd known very little about. As I got a Macaron walk to the ground I met the scorer from Durham Cricket Club. And he said that the boy midfield Ahoco is his name. He came on early for jacket when, when jacket came off and you're thinking, blind me, you know, jacket. How good he was last season. But the Durham Cricket Club scorer, I forgot in his name, he said, he's, you know, he's going to be a real talent. He's a really good player. He likes him. And I was thinking, blind me. Well, you know, and he came on. And then he played beautifully. I think there's only 20 just sat in front of the back four and mop things up and was, you know, he was told that good on the ball, fair bit of composure. So yeah, really impressed with him as well. What one article said that Chelsea, Chelsea had been brobbed. They were, they were brobbed home and away last season as they did the double over them. He consistently bullied them. And there is nothing else remotely like him in the Premier League now. Yeah, a strong, a strong number nine is one of my favorite teammates. And as growing up when I watch football, I love nothing more than seeing physical people dealing with people having sent a half to worry. And there was not, I think there's nothing better when they come up against another strong, a good center half. And you see a bat, I don't even have to win it. But I just think in a stadium, you know, a stadium of light, they're going to have to create that fortress kind of feeling again. I think they know when they've got Brian Broadway on the pitch that they're, they're a match for anyone, you know, and that raises the standards of everyone else. I talked about knowing players and Carrick saying left and right, but some players don't have to say anything. I think Sunderland know what they've got. They took, it's a great focal point to having the team. I think when he really catches fire, I think other players, creative players will know that they're going to get different opportunities they wouldn't necessarily get. And they can always put it in to kind of Brian Broadway. And I watched him, I did the Manchester City game where he scored a hat trick. Yeah. You know, he's got, he's got some lovely subtle touches as well. It's not all just power, like he's a really good player, he's the kind of player that I'd want in my team. And that he's the kind of player that if I lined up against as a goalkeeper, you're so aware of. Delap has that as well, Rory, doesn't he? Look, he may, the confidence may have gone a little bit over the last year because of his experiences at Chelsea, but he does have that. I think Delaps are more recognisable type, isn't he? Does he is like Chris says? He's the willing runner. He's tall, he's very strong. I'm not disputing that. He is, I spoke to Dominic Calvert Lowen last week and we talked about his uneasy relationship with the word target man. I think Delap has an element of that about him as well as being a kind of. What do you mean about that uneasy relationship? Is he offended by that? Dominic Calvert Lowen who, having spent an hour on his company, is now one of my favourite people on the planet, said that when he was younger, he didn't like it, does he felt it was a bit reductive to say he was a target man. It made him sound like he was just kind of the big fella who they lobbed the ball out and he won the headers and he always felt he was more than that, but now he has come to take pride in his work. It thinned skin, that, isn't it? Wow. I mean, isn't he? Wow, isn't he? I mean, do you care? There's a tremendous interview in the observer with him. You should read it, it's very good. He's a lovely man, but I think Delap is more, is probably along those lines. He's not lightning quick, but he is quick. I think the thing with Robbie and Joe touched on it, Robbie's not that tall, but it's like he's made of granite and technically it's a skill. He's five for 11, which to me is not that tall, Mark. A wee man to me. People always think a bit of skill. People think skill is a croif turn, a step over, a rebona, but his ability to read the flight of the ball and the way he positions himself and his awareness of where the defender is. Brian, probably, yeah, it's incredible, but the way that he does it and the way that he pins, but the ability to judge the ball, that's such a difficult thing, and it's so underappreciated, I appreciate it. But I was going to say, Chris, he also has all of the technical skills as well. He is a good, he's not, I think the thing with Robbie and the reason that I don't know where the article you were citing is from, Mark, but now the do I, annoyingly, I was trying to recognise the tight place. I would guess athletic. But I think he is relatively unique, not just in in England, but across Europe, because he's not, he's, he's the target man who is all, who is not that tall. He's not an obvious area sort of aerial presence. He is very stilful, but he is also very strong. He doesn't, he's a bit of a unit one, I think, in that sense. There's not many players like him, and he has struggled to find the context that he fits into. There's been spells at Iax and Iax and Iax, where he's been in and out to an extent. And I think the team like Sunderland, I think that might be just the right place for him. What should Liam Delap's goal target be? Do you think this season, Chris? No, I don't think he should have a target. He just carry on doing what he's doing. I thought it was really interesting his goals. His goals were incredible. When I saw somebody said he scored a brilliant goal, and I watched the first one and thought, must have been the first one they're talking about, and then the second one in many ways. But the way that, the way that he finished them, they were thumps. He wasn't thinking about that. He was thinking of driving and shooting, and maybe that's been the thing over his time at Chelsea in the early days for us when chances have come. He missed the chance at Crystal Palace, where he, I don't know, he was thinking. Me and Joe were talking about this before. He's got so much criticism for that, but he's four yards out and wallops it. And Benitez as knows gets in the way. I mean, it's such, I mean, just miss just miss Benitez as knows. That's all he had to do. He should have scored, but I'm really pleased for him because he did brilliantly well at Ipswich, and he got his move, and things didn't didn't work out. And then I mean, nearly doubled his money when Forrest bought him. He was certainly willing to Chelsea 50 to Forrest at tough start, tough team to play in. But that's that suited him. City suited him at the weekend, and the counter attack. And he's he's a runner, but his goals were incredible. And that will hopefully now give him him the confidence to score the goals where you need a bit of finesse. Yeah, I think I think he'll be a streaky, you know, a streaky kind of player in terms of when he feels comfortable because he is so aggressive with his finishing. So aggressive. And I've seen plenty of them in training. And when your confidence isn't up, but that's your go-to, it can it can it can be a tough place. You know, I've not been a striker, but you can have someone who they're all that they're their whole life. They've, you know, he's comfortable on both feet, 20, 25 yards out in. He feels like getting that his feet and walloping it. And you know, making the goalkeeper save it. And if not, you know, he's he's willing off celebrating. But to have those two moments, especially against Manchester City, you know, it's not forget that's where he started his football. Having those moments and the crowd, you know, crowds when players who rely on power, when they start to shoot from 25 yards and it it doesn't work, you can feel it in the stadium, you can feel that, oh, it's gone again and then the conversations, why hasn't he got more finesse? But on the flip side of that, when you've got someone who the crowd believes that when they're in and around a penalty area and they're screaming shoot, if you can get that wind in his sails at Nottingham Forest, which those two goals are putting in a really good direction for that. - And that's his strength, Joe, that, that, you know, therefore, forest I suppose, have to learn a little bit how to play to his strengths. - That's the pattern we're talking about, Manchester United. They can only play to Liam Delab's strengths if he shows regularly that they, that warrants it. Now, like you say, obviously, Nottingham Forest have signed in 50 million pound investment. They can set him up all they want and they can make it about him, but if he's not doing it all the time, then you start thinking about other avenues and that's why the best people like the Harlands of this world, Manchester City placed his strengths because, ultimately, he's going to score. But other players who, another team, who don't catch that fire, you start to second guess and maybe go on different routes. - In just a case, you're interested in, in how that pans out with his strengths. He leads the Premier League this season, does Liam Delab for shot ending carries. He's had 14 of those and goal ending carries. So three of those, obviously, both his goals as Manchester City came running with the ball. In the play Croatia on Thursday, Spain on Sunday, commentary of both matches on Firefly Sport, Ben White has been talking about his return to the England fold, called up in March for the first time. So he's leaving the 2022 World Cup squad early for personal reasons. He's in Tomas Tuchel squad for this camp. He missed out on the World Cup of course with injury. He's been talking to John Murray. - What would you say to anyone who would define your England career by what happened in Qatar, what happened in the aftermath? - Yeah. - What would you say to them? - Obviously, loads have been said, I've probably seen all of it. And, yeah, I think just, obviously, people don't know the full story because I've never said anything and won't put anyone under the bus or share any of that. And, yeah, I think it's probably the best way and yeah, it's been amazing. Obviously, a bit tricky and not straightforward, but yes, it's obviously amazing to be here now. - Do you wish you'd never done that interview where you said you didn't watch football? Because that's kind of fucked you around, doesn't it? - Yeah, it has to be fair. I don't know if I actually said I don't like, because people say I don't like football, which is obviously not true. It's because I don't watch it, which I think it's quite normal for someone who does a job and then doesn't go home and then continue watching that job. Yeah, I think it's my way of release from the game 'cause it's so intense, obviously. - When Tomas Tuchel came in, there was quite a change. The chapter changed, didn't it? It was a new chapter for you and he made it very clear to us publicly, right from the start, that he was keen to get you involved. Did you feel that love from him? - Yeah, yeah, even turn out, his communication is amazing. He's always in contact and yeah, I think a manager that you really want to play for, that you want to give everything to, and yeah, someone that I think understands the level that it needs to be. - He was very supportive of you when you eventually played at Wembley again, and I mean, that was an extraordinary night, wasn't it with one thing and another? How honest did you deal with all of that, being booed, being cheered the whole lot? - Yeah, I think before the game I was sinking, just don't like, don't not stand out, but just nice and easy, you know? And then I come on and obviously get booed in a score, then I give away a pen, so yeah, it was a, obviously full of emotions at night, and yeah, it was a good night. - Ben White talking with John Murray, did you watch a lot of football when you played football? I mean, when Ben White's perspective makes a lot of sense to me? - Yeah, yeah, well, it's their own, isn't it? - I'd watch a game, I wouldn't go out of my way, if I didn't feel like I had any interest in it or had something better to do, I'd 100% do it. But I'm a big football fan, there was a big game when I'd watch it, but I think, again, I don't know Ben, but I think he's perfectly within his rights to just, it's a shame, isn't it? 'Cause once someone's honest, everyone piles in on, 'cause they don't like what he said about it, and you know, - Because this context as well, Joe, isn't it? - Of course, it's journalists like Rory, who sort of, you know, they misquote or they take things like that. - So you're saying the half an hour interview, Chris, that they're just not interested in, as soon as he said that, their eyes lit out and that got bulleted out. - Exactly. - Yeah, well, well, it's the world I'm in there, so I can't really say that much. But, I totally, you know, I wasn't shocked when I heard him say that, and, you know, I think there's one, there's one for Aaron Ramstail, that goes round and round and round when he said, he struggles to concentrate for 90 minutes, in a two hour interview of where he was having a laugh, and he was easy and discussing things with people. And that gets thrown in his, oh, that's why he's not doing, that's why he's not got a club, that's why he's at Southampton. And it's ridiculous, because contextually, he was just being on it, you know, he was just making light of a difficult, well, a situation. And that just seems to have followed him round, very much like the Ben White quotes. - And I think I'd probably need him, Rory, finally, on this, because right back, he's all over the place, I mean, Thomas Tuchel says, it's a position where we struggle with injuries, we have a lot of changes. - Yeah, and Ben White is versatile, he can play, he can play that role in different ways. He plays part of obviously the best team in the country, one of the best defenders, it's probably the best defense in Europe. Having him there, having him available is a massive advantage for two people. And I think, yeah, it's a shame in a way that he lost four years of his international career, as he said, he's kind of, that is for him to know what the reasons are. But it would be madness not to have him involved. Ben White, I think. - Let's talk, Crystal Palace, who we are being told are considering Sackin PSR, I mean, fallen to the foot of the table. Now, it's the first time they've been bottom in the Premier League since December 2017. Thomas Frank is one of the names being linked with it. Sean Dysher has also been linked with it. A couple of others as well. Is this inevitable, Rory, that he's going, not who they're going to appoint Nags, but do you think it's inevitable? - Inevitable, no, but it's extremely likely. I think given the results, given the lack of signs of progress, I think, I mean, I thought they were quite good in the first half of the day, it's Liverpool yesterday. I don't, it doesn't look to me like the players have kind of given up on him at all, but I'm not sure the results have been there and he will, he will, I would expect not to see the other side of the international break. The argument, I suppose, that he'd have is whether the squad, whether he's the problem or whether the squad not being strengthened, having sold all of those important players is the problem. - They've been in the Premier League now for 14 consecutive seasons. So can you understand why they may be looking to make a change? - Yeah, it's definitely concerning what's going on. They seem to results-wise have been making real strides forward. I think there's been plenty of noise in Oliver Glasner made those noises apparent even under his successful reign. But, you know, this, they've started, you talk about them being in the league for 14 years now. So they're an established Premier League team and they plan and they budget to be in the Premier League. So I think they're going to have to make the best decision and right now it's not looking good for them. You know, Sellers Park isn't necessarily looking for fortress. That's where they really have established over those 14 years. But somewhere, it's notorious in the Premier League. I felt it's so difficult to go there and get a result that alone win. So they're going to have to do something. They're going to have to do something quickly. It's, you know, it's the famous stick or twist. But if it's circulating that they're thinking about changing the manager, yeah, it's going to be a difficult moment for Passage. - If you were in the running, Chris, to take over, then what do you laugh about? - We laugh about Rory. - I didn't laugh anything. - That was me, sorry, that was me. - You didn't know about my spell at Lincoln? Joe just wondered, is there? - There's a CV on the table, is that what you're saying, Chris? - Well, I was rollin' out. - We were in his lobby, got a job at Peterborough now. So I'm just going to leave you behind a bit, isn't he? - Well, sorry, go ahead. - Well, I ruined that. - Do you not think he'll result the other night? - Very, yeah. - Yeah, do you feel like you're having to play catch-up managerially now with him? - No, I got it. Well, not really, I think he's still playing catch-up to me. He needs a result or two. - If, anyhow, if you were in the running to take over the Crystal Palace job, would, what would you look at, like, I'm not trying to be fun to hear, what would you be looking at whether it is a good job to take in this current moment? - Well, criticism of Palace of Club or the fan base or anything, but at this current moment, would you want to take it? - I think it's, I think it's, you know, often the best time to take a job when a club is at rock bottom. And I think if you, if you're Sean Dish or Thomas Frank, people regard them as real organizers. I think both managers are regarded as pragmatic, a crystal palace now. They're bottom of the table. They conceded 51 goals last season. They've conceded 24 already this season, court of the season, gone. I mean, that's alarming. So I actually think that for everything which Rory's right, the players which have lost and PSR just could quite rightly argue, well, they haven't been replaced, that quality like for like three yesterday. They went in with Richards, Tessassi and Lerma as their back three. Yeah, and I mean, Lerma, you know, as far as I can recall, the sort of, you know, you regard them as a midfielder. Lerma as much as anything. But you know, it's the fact they're leaking goals left right in center, which is, which is the biggest issue in the national break comes around. We had the palace fan on, didn't we, about a month ago. And there was also that element. You know, they're a pretty loyal fan base, but there was that that element from him, which was suggesting they weren't behind him. And I think all things being equal now. Palace know that if this guy stays on, there's a real chance of them getting relegated simply because of the goals they're conceding. So, so, you know, they're going to have to make that change and get in somebody who is a bit more, a bit more pragmatic. But I do, I do have sympathy for him because you had the, you know, you've got the SARS situation where he seems to have had a bit of assault because he didn't get the move, which he wanted, Metetta, you know, brilliant play, which he's been for, for Palace, you know, a similar sort of thing. So, he, it's just, it was just the, you know, the wrong time for him to take over. I mean, he did well at lunch, wasn't it, in, which is why I'm asking the question from Frank, maybe from Frank's point of view in particular, whether there would be a few question marks about whether this is the right time. Well, they were because, because they bought them, because they're not, they're not, they're not cut a drift. It's a, you know, a premier league where you, you know, you get a couple of wins, you're up to, you know, look at Tottenham, the way they flew up the table the other week. And it's, it's probably got the itch. I don't know, Thomas Frank, as well as you would mark, but managers don't like to be out of the game for too long. Otherwise, they get, they get forgotten. So, you know, it's, it's, it's still, you know, on the face of it, a decent, a decent job. I, I'd have thought Thomas Frank would look at it and think that, and Sean and I should be the same, that you probably get quite a lot of returns from getting them well-organized, and that they would be relatively confident if you go in mid season, that the squad is weaker than it should be. They didn't replace that, you know, look where, and gay previously, as they should have done. But I think here, they'd look at that and think how, if I can get them well-organized, I can get the wins that I need to keep them up at which point, I have credit in the bank, and we can start to restock the squad as we need to. So, I think it is relatively appealing as a job, Paulus. - Um, maybe a big decision for Thomas Frank, wouldn't it? Who, about where to come back next? Because for all the glory of his time at Brentford, maybe feels like there's some rebuilding of a reputation to do after Spurs, rightly or wrongly. - I think to an extent, but, you know, I'm not a big fan of talking about a job that's not available yet. But if you want to talk about Thomas Frank, where he comes in next into the footballing world, you know, you've worked with him, he's such a positive mentality. And obviously that was a great opportunity for him at Spurs, but I think, like PSS, if he did lose his job at Crystal Park, I don't think he's a huge block on his comic book. I don't think not succeeding at Tottenham is a huge block. I don't think he's going to fall out of football or fall out of trust with the Premier League. So, I still think he'll have some great opportunities and whatever he chooses to do next will definitely be on his terms. - Where would you pitch him, Mark, that's the thing I'm not saying you. I'm saying that, you know, it's Crystal Palace's big club, what job would you want to get? - Where else, where, I mean, I'm not, you know, he did a brilliant job at Brentford. And then, you know, Joe's talked about the Tottenham didn't work. But what would he be waiting for? - Full, I don't know, full of them. But, you know, you're thinking, you know, what else is out there? He's probably not going to walk into, you know, an Aston Villa. Not that I'm saying, who, and I am, Rief, you know, is going to go. - Oh, God don't, don't get the feeling you don't have to look at that. - I'll be his unpopular, he's Rory, but I was a former player. But, you know, where else is he going to go? So, I think that that's a great opportunity. They're not ten points cut the drift at the bottom. That's a chance for it. If he gets in now, he has a chance to turn things around. Palace have to make that, you know, that, that call quickly. - They're also, it's Sky Sports News running on their yellow ticker. That, that, another, uh, player manager, they might consider Crystal Palace, um, is the Taloo's manager, who's Yen's Bertel Asgu, who was also a mother one. Now, and, and you said lassies and Chris, I have only just read this on the telly then, as, as it went past. You said lassies and they were playing the best football of any team. Did you say in Britain? - Yeah, yeah, brilliant, I mean, and that would be a heck. I mean, that would be a fascinating, but you do wonder whether. - Wrong time, wrong time for him to go in, in, in my opinion. It, in terms of the way that he wants to play and how expansive he is. He's not, he's not a lumper. He's not a get it up to, to Robbie. He's, you know, he's, he wants to build from the back. And I don't think, I don't think that, that would be the right move for him, or for Palace, when you're a quarter of the way through the season. I think that he, you know, if you brought him in, uh, you know, in, in the summer, and he, he has time to build where I think that, with the greatest respect to him, you know, you've got your, sort of, Sean Dysers who are, you know, ready to go in and, uh, and organise and be pragmatic, maybe the same for Thomas Frank, but I wouldn't like to see the end of the lasco going and, and sort of, the way that he thinks, the way that he works, ripple that up just to keep Palace in the Premier League. - Uh, right, thank you very much, Rory, Joe, Chris, thank you, thank you. [Music] Pensions, savings rates, mortgages, they don't make things simple. I want to help people navigate their way through it. I'll take you through how to manage each week's big money issues, step-by-step, and I'll answer your questions on everything and anything within reason. So you can maximise keeping the cash in your pockets. The Martin Lewis Podcast. Listen on BBC Sounds. Sometimes we all need an extra helping hand, especially with a tricky business problem you've been putting off. Claude is the AI for just that. It's the collaborator that understands your entire workflow and thinks with you, not for you, and Claude isn't just for quick questions, handed a whole task like turning a folder of scattered notes into a report, and it does the work and hands back something finished that you can open and edit. Claude can now draft a doc or deck right in front of you, and Claude design now lives right inside Claude. Describe the website or prototype your picturing, attach your design system, and it comes back in your own design language, ready to edit, right on the canvas. It works with your files and the tools you already use, like Gmail and Slack, and whether you're debugging code at midnight, building a financial model or strategizing your next business move, Claude extends your thinking to tackle the problems that matter, for problems worth solving. Get started with Claude at Claude.ai/solve. That's Claude.ai/solve. And check out Claude Pro, which includes access to all of the features mentioned in today's episode. Claude.ai/solve.