MNC: What next for Arsenal & is Iraola right for Liverpool?

BBC-podcast on suoraan jatkuvasti jatkuvasti. Kato? - Aamme nähdä mitä sä teet. - Vuokrasinkkodin. - Oho! Sujuu kuin Sato. Vuokraa elämäsi koti. Satopistetti. - This is the Monday Night Club with Mark Chapman. On The Football Daily Podcast. - Välkeen. Täällä on Monday Night Club. Chris Sutton, Adam Krafton ja Connor Cody. On Withers, Champions League Final, on a-slot leaving Liverpool. Looks like Antonio Rull will replace him. We will start with the Champions League Final. You are on Radio 2 this morning. Chris, a clip of you. Talk about your highlight in Budapest. Visit in the statue of Colombo. - Yeah, that was a highlight. I'm a big fan of Colombo. - And Murdershey wrote Angela Lensbury, but I'd say Colombo #1. - For me. - I had to get my creditation, but I made a dash for his statue. - Right. - And. - Yeah, don't. - And for those that don't know, why is there a statue of Colombo in Budapest? - I don't know. - Oh, okay. - I honestly don't know, but I know there is a statue. - Well, Adam Krafton, do you know? It's the kind of thing the athletic may write 5,000 words on. - So I don't know. - I don't know. I'm Google. - Oh, as we speak. - Right, okay. Have you found it? - Oh, I'm just. - Well, no, I'm looking. It takes time. - Is it not filmed in Budapest? Is that not why there was a statue there? That's what I thought you were getting at? - No. - Before we came out of LA. He was, no, quite a long way away. LA. - It's a tribute to the actor Peter Ford. - Yeah. - Peter Ford. - Who was believed to have Hungarian roots. - Ah, right. - There you go. - That's according to the AI version of Google. - Okay. - Take it. - Take it with caution. - Excellent. They must have known he had Hungarian roots. They couldn't have just believed it. Just popped the statue of a human being. And the bloodline. And that would have been slightly. - That's not even it. - All right. And we had to explain to Connor what Colombo was. - I love coming on this show. Just to lay in new things from you, Chris. - Do you know Colombo impression that you did off air? - Really? - Yeah, go on. - I've got two. - You got two. - You got two. - Wow. - Wow. - I'm not sure that's really the point of impressions. You better just have the one off the. But go on. - Okay. Well, yeah, this one from. I think I dropped my pen. And then he says, "Just one more thing." That was. That was just a classic one. It set people up. He was onto them early. And it always like leave a room or a building. And then they'd think they'd be relieved, the suspect, and then he'd just wander back in. Just one more thing. And then he'd pin them. Then he'd pin them at the end. What a guy. So, what did you make of the Champions League final, Ben? Chris. As you were there. Oh, yeah. I mean, it was fascinating. Going into it, you know, it was always going to be to talk about the clash of styles and Arsenal get ahead early. And then they just defended for the lives, didn't they? And, you know, they didn't show a great ambition really in terms of, you know, I think they had something like 25% possession. The end justifies the means, though, doesn't it? So, you know, it's okay setting up that way. And they want to premier league over the style which they played with. But, I mean, they were long-bowl Arsenal. And it was pretty basic stuff in an attacking sense, even when the sobs came on. But, you know, it has been their strength this season. And they were a penalty away. So, look, I think you could look at it, you know, in a couple of ways. Do Arsenal need to adapt in the Champions League? Maybe, maybe I think that'll be something Michaela Tetta would talk about. But at the start of the season, it was all about winning the Premier League. And they did win the Premier League. But they just didn't get over the line in the Champions League. So, that's something which I think he'll try, maybe try and address over the summer. But how do you beat PSG? By and Munich tried to beat PSG, you know, in a similar fashion to the way that PSG play. But, you know, that's why they're the outstanding team. They won five-nil last season. With, I think it's just a goalkeeper they changed. So, an Arsenal came very close. Adam, Massöpsen said on Five-Live, if you look at the stats, then you would think it was a one-sided boxing match. So, I also had a possession of just under 25 percent. And Paris Saint-Germain made 602 more pass of attempts than Arsenal, just to give you a couple of those. But Matt went on to say, but it was designed like that. It was designed with a purpose to win the Champions League, and there were inches in it. Yeah, I guess. And, it's not that different, I imagine, from what we, you know, we may have seen all those years ago when Chelsea would play by and Munich or Barcelona. And they went on to win the Champions League. And I think sometimes we forget that teams that win trophies don't always play one in finals. You don't have to play a team off a pitch to win a trophy. What it did remind me of a little bit was England's final against Italy, in Euro 2020, where you get that early goal. And then you kind of have something to sit on, and you get deeper and deeper. And the other team starts to take the initiative, starts to kind of just circulate the ball. And it just gives you a very small margin for error. I mean, David Reib, I don't think he made a save really in the 90 minutes, but just that one moment of switching off from the penalty, let them back in. I mean, they could play with that little bit more risk. You might say, a little bit more risk. But, you know, I think Matt's right. If our tetra went to bed the night before and had a dream about the game, it probably would have gone a lot like it went on the day. It wasn't an accident. I don't really know what we were expecting. I was expecting fully what Arsenal had done. I think Chris mentioned before, but I started to play the lot this season. We've seen that. They've been in one of the Premier League. We mentioned before, but Bayern Munich. Now, Bayern Munich are a better team than Arsenal in my opinion. And Bayern Munich went told us over PSG and got beat. So, we see that. So, for me, Michaela Aetetta went in. I knew, I felt like a new nut son, like an opponent, but I felt like I knew how he was going to play. And when you're playing that system, I believe, because I'm playing that system a little bit with rules when we were in the Premier League and different things, not to the level of what they were doing at Champions League final. But you have to have spells. We've the ball to give you some little bit of breathing space. And in the first half, they had a few little counter attacks in the ball, flush across the box, a couple of times. They had a couple of little chances. But that totally got another five seconds out. And I just think the quality of PSG when they get into that rhythm, when they sustain and keep you pinned in, that's when it becomes tough. And it's such a hard way to play. I think, as the lads have said there, Michaela Aetetta would have known what he was doing a couple of weeks before that game, knowing how he was going to play against PSG. And I don't really know why we were also surprised by it all. So, when you talk about, if you play that way, you've got to have, you need to have some spells where you have the ball, just to try and take the heat out of it and give yourself a breather. How do you do that? Because people are talking about, while Arsenal and I need more pace up front or so and so on and so forth. So, if you are being direct, even though you would go say over the top and into space, is that still giving you a breather? Or is it actually, I don't know, you're in the field taking the pace of the game and keeping hold of the ball for two minutes? Yeah, I don't think it's going over the top. You're just giving the ball back to PSG. I don't think it's that I think you've got to have spells in the game where you make passes and you have the ball and you go through midfield and you're brave enough. Because what happens is, I believe, when a team has so much the ball, they've got energy. When they lose the ball to counterpress really well. So Liverpool were amazing. Liverpool were the best at counterpressing because they always had energy to do so. PSG were the same the other day. So, that means you lose the ball because you're tired from running and asking the running side to side, moving side to side, shuffling side to side. So, when they get the ball back, they're absolutely naff. But you've got to be brave enough and strong enough to play through a press and play through a counterpress where you can play through and then you keep the ball for a certain number of passes to then give you a little bit of a breather on the ball and a little bit of time to control the game a little bit. I never felt like Arsenal had that in the game. I really didn't. But how could they have got that? That's how. Because you're doing your coaching budget. So, that's the interesting bit. You know, when people question player X or. or player Y or. is this the player who might need to be upgraded for next season for them to go to the next level? And we can expand as well on whether Arsenal do need to change. Where do you need those players? No, I think pace is a massive part of it. But the issue is when you play like that. And like I said, I've played in the system before where you don't touch the ball for long periods. When you get it back, you feel like you've got to go and score straight away. And we see an Arsenal score early, which helped them and Adam just mentioned there. I was in the Euro 2020 Finals on the Bentford England. And it was exactly the same. We scored so. And I don't think that helps us. Because all of a sudden, you cling on and you shrivel up a little bit. You go, "Oh, my God, we're playing Italy." You're an incredible team. Arsenal playing PSG and an incredible team. We've got to defend, defend, defend. But the time you look on the clock and there's an hour to go. Or the 75 minutes to go and you go, "Oh, my word, where's the time?" I'm coming. So, I think it's important that you have pace. But then when you go for it, you've got to be brave enough to cut back out and have spells on the ball. When you're a counter-attack team, you still got to have them spell. You don't just counter-attack, counter-attack, counter-attack. In my eyes, I think you've got to cut out and have the ball for large periods. And I just don't feel like Arsenal had that. Now that might have been the way they played. That every time they win it back, they go for a counter-attack to try and score. And mentality. That's what it's like when you're in. You don't have the ball for so long. You feel like you've got to go with it. You've got to go and have a chance. You've got to go and try and score. And I felt like they got caught up in that and PSG just nullified them in the end for me. And I remember watching the first half and thinking I was listening to the commentary on the game. A lot of it was Arsenal doing so. And the way they were defending really well, I just felt PSG were in so much control. And PSG knows, as long as this goes on, this will keep going. This will keep going. We'll keep making passes. We'll make passes. And we'll just grind them down. Something will happen. And we've seen second half something happening. But that doesn't take anything away from the way Arsenal played. Because I felt like the game plan of what Arsenal were doing was right. It kept them in the game until a penalty has Chris mentioned before. And that was the plan to be within the game. And in all of this, Chris, we also have to take into account that Paris Saint-Germain's midfield is a standard that I think any other club in Europe would dream of, isn't it? Given their work rate, I mean, forget anything else. I mean, their work rate is off the scale. Michaela Tete, he, you know, he didn't have the confidence in his players, but he just knew how good and dynamic their midfield is in terms of winning the ball back. And, you know, and, you know, I mean, the levels of fitness are just phenomenal, but they're brilliant footballers as well. And they're such a dangerous team. He has to go into the game and think about how, you know, how'd you beat this PSG team? And it's so, so difficult. He'll probably look at it now and think, well, maybe we need to adapt and evolve. I've won the Premier League this season, playing this more pragmatic style. And that's a big deal. But then, you know, the next step is the next challenges. How can we, how can we conquer Europe? Just picking up on what Chris said about, you know, sort of adding that little bit more quality. I just wonder whether it's as simple as that in the sense of they added quality last summer. They added, as they added, Geocuers, Maduac, I think, maybe that's in some ways it's more depth than quality, but they're still, you know, as a, I think any team in the Premier League would have been happy to have, as a added into the squad. And I just wonder whether Arthet actually wants to develop the team in that way, or whether he just wants to make them better, even better at what they do at the moment. Because if he did, then I think much of this past season you'd have seen Urdu Guard and as they're starting together. And a bit like the way you'd have used to see City with Bernardo Silva and De Bruyne in front of Roderie, you could have had that in front of Rice. So I'm not sure that this is as simple as you just go and buy a bit of flair and it kind of evolves Arsenal. I think they do need a better player on the left side, on the left flank. I'm not sure they go, you know, just getting Julian Alvarez completely change it from what Havards can do, from what Geocuers can do. He's a better player, but does it radically change the way that Arsenal go about playing? I don't know. I was talking about, you know, what Connor touched on, you know, as a form of player, you know, I don't think that you can keep giving the ball back to a team of PSG's quality, you know, as I think you're setting them. I mean, what Arsenal gave up and what Arsenal were happy to give up is, you know, at times in the wide area, saying, "Well, you throw balls into our box, our centre backs will, you know, dominate, you know, you don't really have that aerial presence." And that's what that's what that's what Michaela Teta gave up and Arsenal, we know they're brilliant at defending the box. So he has to give something away. And that's what, what it was. If you look at that overall squad, where are you looking at? I can see the point on the left wing. Trussard's getting a bit older and Martin Ali is probably flattered to deceive at times this season. But elsewhere, is it less about adding players but more about trusting the more attacking ones? 100% 100% and for me, it's, I know what the guys are saying about adding quite that squad is full of quality. You mentioned the players, they're design last season, the players that they had there before. It's full of quality for me. You can evolve that team with that group of players. I understand the left hand side. I know what you're saying about the left hand side. I think if there's an opportunity to go and get a left hand side player, I think he probably would do. But do you think that's sorry? Do you think that would be more, you know, being with Morgan Rogers, aren't there? Morgan Rogers is a very sort of different left side. Or far higher. You're different profile to say and out and out wing it. So if you have Morgan Rogers, he's Morgan Rogers thing that are going to get into the space that you would wear as a mount before it, for example. Or so do you need a left side player can come in very different shapes and form? Yeah, so it depends how he's going to evolve the team. If he's going to evolve the team where he wants to build with a boxing midfield and four in midfield and he wants to make the four in midfield with the left wing. Then Morgan Rogers is absolutely ideal to play in that position. You play with Ezzy as a tent. You end up with two tents and then the full back goes higher and makes the wing or whatever that may be. So I think it all depends on how Michelin Teto wants to evolve the team. I actually think personally he's been really clever this year. Michelin Teto, I think he's played the way he's played because he probably believes he can go told to the Pec Guarreal as well. I think he's found a way to beat a Manchester City team to the title by playing a different way. Maybe that's come from working under him. Maybe that's come from knowing what Pec Guarreal's weaknesses are because if you beat Manchester City, you tend to win the title. It's as simple as that every single season. So I think he's been really clever but I think we're at a moment now where they have the quality within that group. Maybe one or two. Okay, I get. But they have the quality within that group to go to a different level if they're willing to do so. I wonder as well Adam, maybe this isn't very popular but Amy Lawrence and James McNicolas both are in the athletic put this theory out there which is which is tool intensive purposes. Just everybody calm down a little bit because Arsenal as James McNicolas said learnt from being runners up in the Premier League to evolving into winners in the Champions League. They've gone quarter finalists then semi finalists then losing finalists and Amy points out that whether it was Chelsea or Manchester City or Paris Saint-Germain, all of them lost the final in their modern iteration before they finally got to celebrate. So in amongst, do they need to change the style of play? Do they need new players? Do they need this? Do they need that? Do they actually just need everybody calm down? They need a holiday but they're going to the World Cup instead. I mean I don't think, oh Mick and Artette will be coming away from Saturday night thinking I need to rip everything up and reimagine my work ahead of next season at all. But I think the reason people get frustrated watching Arsenal is you just sometimes look at the players who are there and think they can be better than this. They can be better than taking 35 seconds to take a throw in a minute and a half to take a corner. You just watch them, you know, Declan Rice is better than that. essay is better than that. Erdogan is better than that. And yeah, okay, it gets them to go. You can't just Declan Rice just on his kickoffs. Just it can come from his corners which are brilliant but he takes so long to take them. But that's the bit I just sometimes look at and think you can be a more charming team than this. You don't need to do all of this. You would cope. You know, and actually yes, we can say they won the league doing it like this. But they won the league doing it like that because man, Citi blew it having fought their way back into it. Oh, that's what that is not that is not that that's a load of rubbish. That that is how many how many league games are there? 38. But Chris, let me play 38 league games. So so it's just as simple as that man, just to Citi blew it. That is not a set absolute one. I'm saying what I'm saying is over that last five or six games of the season after city B Arsenal city were in the driving seat. They had the chance to go and win it. Arsenal had at that point squandered the advantage, right? So just as if Citi had one you could say Arsenal let them back in. But what I'm saying is it wasn't always in Arsenal's hands that they would go on and do it. So that's why I'm saying it's not a perfect way to go and to go and win things. That's that's all it's not saying they didn't deserve to win it or anything like that. But I don't think it's that unfair. You don't need to be a limbo to follow that argument. Just on the just a final one I don't want to move on to Parasite as you're mad. What do you make of the discussion of whether Gabrielle should have taken a penalty or not as a fellow centre-half? I was shocked when I seen him walk up the penalty but then at the same time I kind of sat down when he's a confident lad. I don't know what's been seen on the train and pitch. So I can imagine they've took penalties in training like we all do when we're leading into a penalty shootout and I can imagine he's whipped a few of them into the top end because that look what it looked like where he wanted to go. So I can imagine Michalotte had to see that in training and he's one of the leaders. Yeah, okay and he's a very very confident fellow. I think we've seen that over the season in terms of how he plays and how he's played as being fantastic. I don't think anybody can deny that. People might not like him because of his antics and what he does but he's being absolutely out of standing. So I can understand from a manager point of view putting him on the penalty but I like attacking players on penalties. I think the goal scorers in your team. I think they probably should be on penalties but at the same time I don't know what's been seen in training. So but I was shocked when he was walking up. I was a bit like, oh this is interesting. Number five, who needs to score. This is a big penalty. This is for a centre back to be taken. Chris might tell me difference. He's a striker. I'm a centre back. So I was a utility player. Centre back centre midfield striker. But no, I think I mean, I'll tell you the point. You know, Oda Gard went off and Saka went off and Havirtz. So they had what they had. People are saying what you'd matter. We have taken it. But if Gabrielle put his hand up to take it then let him get on with it. I think it's slightly disrespectful to centre halves over the years. I mean, or just defenders in general. I mean, a lot of defenders have been brilliant penalty takers. It's like we're looking at centre halves like they're all donkeys and they're not. You know, centre halves can kick a ball. I just, I mean, somebody had to miss. I mean, you know, people are forgetting as a miss as well. So that wasn't just on Gabrielle. And I feel for him because that's a moment which for all the wrong reasons, he'll never forget that. Paris, I'm your man then. I've now joined an exclusive list of tea teams to win back to back champions league titles. All ten of the outfield players who started the win over Arsenal also started their victory over into Milan. Now that is some consistency Adam. It is and also I mean to think you've lost Donna Roma and just go on with the Champions League again is pretty amazing. Fantastic team unbelievable coach. Would you bracket them now with that Barcelona team of Pep? I think in terms of they have a defined style. I think they're very hard playing against you. Also look at the age of some of the players. Well, never as I think 21, do you weigh 20, Borker or 23? Do you think they are being bracketed in that same group? And if they if you think they aren't, why aren't they? I think maybe they aren't just they don't have that kind of that magic individual like Messi they have six or seven of those brilliant individuals maybe and they don't have six or seven players that have all come through the PSG system like that Barcelona team had. But I don't think they're midfield you know that midfield as well. Never as a team here Fabio Nui's. I think it's probably as good now as the Chavuini Estor one the way that they press and circulate the ball. I kind of like that they don't really have like a proper striker either. And actually if someone had said a year you know two years ago that that 11 players or that 10 outfield players would go and win two Champions League. I'm not sure anyone would have thought that would be possible. So that's a real kind of tribute what Enrique has been able to do sort of with the system to create that. I love the fact more. I think Adam just touched on it there but I love the fact more that the more of a team. So I don't know about not having like the single individual. I love the fact that they're a team and they're all together and they all play to the manager's kind of tune and whatever he says goals. We obviously all see in these videos of when he's in the training ground when he was speaking to him. Bapay about making him an animal off the ball and different things like that. I think watching them sort of things and then seeing how his team plays it resonates. You look and you go, wow the wake you must put in on the training pitch to make this team a team is unbelievable. And they play different to the Barcelona team as well for me. I think they play it a lot differently to that team. I think they should be bracketed in that. I think they're that good. I think the managers that good. And I think what they're producing at the minute and how much we all love watching them put to the minisee and bracket is that very all of them. The journey PSG have been on. If you think three or four years ago it was all about individuals. It was messy. It was name R and it was the other one and Bapay. Incredible really. For gone Bapay. Nearly forgot. Well, I mean it's easy to it's not you know who was talking about M Bapay on Saturday night which is incredible to think you know to lose M Bapay which for years PSG had fought against. They just kept throwing more and more money at him to keep him. And then as soon as you lose him you just develop this team and it's not all about him. It's about the whole culture of the club resetting I guess. But I do think that journey is very uplifting because it kind of tells a story of what team sport is all about. There's a song when it gets to a bit. The whole phase goes so good so good so good. You've got to do the arm bit too. So funny I love that bit. We know that feeling. The FIFA World Cup 2026 coming soon for five live in BBC sounds. Conor Cody Adam Krafton, Chris Sutton on the Monday night club as we move on to Liverpool. Are you surprised they acted on Saturday morning Chris and sacked him? Yes, yeah I am. Yeah I just I mean Adam will probably have a better idea but why not just sack him immediately after the last game of the season? What you know I mean was this on the cards? I just don't that's the bit I don't understand you know as much as anything and you know I think you can have the debate about the rights or wrongs of it. You want to print me a league this season they were in regression. A lot of the crowd by all accounts at the Liverpool support which should say had turned against him. Maybe that didn't help him but why on Saturday morning? Maybe because there was a big game coming on Saturday night and it buries it a little bit. I don't know. In terms of the timing and week after the end of the season I think Liverpool would say that you know they took their time to take stock, did a review of the season then held conversations with Slough. I agree with you I think it's strange in the sense of only a few days before we were hearing that Slough was looking at bringing in his old assistant from final to number two so that tells you Slough certainly didn't see it coming. He seemed to be under the impression that he would get another year to work on it. I would say like the first kind of alarm bells for me were I was talking to someone last week and we were both saying well where's the rail going? Because it seemed like all these jobs were being taken up around the country and around Europe you know, Marinho Goens midrida and Karik Stenghe United, Alonso Goens Achalsey and you started to think with all due respect to Crystal Palace. You started to think is he really leaving Bournemouth to go to Crystal Palace? It just seemed a bit strange. So did Liverpool get spooked by Melana and Leyva Coos and making moves? Possibly or look I imagine Richard Hughes, the sporting director who had come from Bournemouth previously, I presume he knows Irayola pretty well and I think Irayola and Alonso have the same agents as well. So I can't imagine that this is like the first time Irayola has heard about this over the last few days and weeks. If it is then fair play it's like it's a sudden about turn but I think from everything we know about Liverpool they tend to be pretty organised and look I mean for weeks that they've been giving the impression to media that slot would be staying. So they've done this before you know with Isaac Laszama they gave the impression no no we don't think it will happen and then they do it so it's not uncommon in terms of the way that Liverpool kind of operate. I'm going to be honest with you chapter, I find that a little bit uncomfortable. I just don't like how he's had to pull up so much and let's say I'm not just people might have a pop at me if I say and let's say I understand what football brings and football moves very very fast I think we all know that football is a very fickle game but he came into Liverpool and I don't like this thing either of those clubs team anyone the Premier League with you know how hard it is to win the Premier League like what would we give to win the Premier League? So I'm not having that you still got to go through a full 38 game season and win the Premier League. And they hadn't won the Premier League the previous two but I think they won it once in however many years before that as well. What I'm saying is he wasn't taking over the champion. No of course of course and he's still going to do the job he's still going to do the work and don't get me wrong it was still a top Liverpool team that he took over I fully get that but he's still going to go and win it and he done that and then last summer we seen something happen last summer with Diogo where it's the most tragic thing I've ever seen and nobody should have to deal with such a tragedy as that and I just think we're so fickle within football because then last summer everybody's been saying it doesn't matter what happens this season he's still got Liverpool Champions League football he's still had to deal with what is that to deal with what he had to deal with the start of the last season is I can't even get my head round what he had to deal with his team with the club with the loss of Diogo and how all the sudden we're in a situation where Liverpool are sounding out here Eola before they get rid of slot if that's the case I don't know whether that's the case and this one I'm not putting that out there but what I'm saying is I just feel a little bit uncomfortable with the whole thing and I don't know what the lads have been like inside the dressing remeber so it seems like thing the harmonies aren't right within the dressing room that's the thing we're reading coming out of the Liverpool at the minute but it just makes me a little bit uncomfortable if I'm honest to have us. I just ask you guys as players and expliers what you make of kind of the parting shot from Salah because it felt to me on the outside as a journalist looking in it felt as if this guy's kind of decided my times up I'm going to make sure his times up as well with some of those messages he's been putting out I don't know if that's too strong but do you feel like it's the place of a player even a start player to be that public and that strong about the direction of a team under a manager. I thought that was a bit of snakey behaviour wasn't it? For all those reasons really is it a brilliant career Salah Liverpool is adored by the Liverpool fans and clearly they've been a fall out and he couldn't wait to put the boot in and I thought it was completely unnecessary you know I really didn't and that certainly doesn't sit right with me and Liverpool fans have started to turn anyway but because of how much they adored Salah that probably didn't help the situation as well so yeah I thought Salah was so far out of order. The plays in the dressing room for me I don't think anyway being a current player within the dressing room now if I see one of our better players doing that you think you're killing us here a little bit like it's not helping us this situation we've not had the great season the season has gone how it has we're now in a situation where obviously the manager on the pressure and that's just not helping at all in the slightest so being a current player in the dressing room I don't think it's the way to go about and I think he knows what he's doing because he knows what he's doing. always what the Liverpool fans are like with Muhammad Sarvi, absolutely a daughter. I'm rightly so, by the way, because of the career he's had there, but I think there's a way to go about it myself first. Do you think that whilst a lot of things have gone against him, and that, when I say gone against him, that is most definitely not to minimise what happened last summer with Dior and the Jotter, but then on top of that, the injuries that they have suffered. The players that came in, which he must have had to say in, but it feels like it's slightly imbalanced the squad in certain areas. But at the same time, because he wasn't clop, he was always on the back foot. Yeah, 100%. And I think that's definitely gone against him. I think the ownership there, whoever it is, making decisions, Richard Hughes and people at the football club, obviously looked at what's got to spend last summer, because he's obviously had a big say in what's got to spend a Liverpool have obviously finished where they have in the Premier League and the season hasn't been. So, it's obviously been a big factor in it, but it's also been a big factor in why Liverpool have struggled. It's hard to gel them sort of plays into this team. Big profile players who you expect to come in fire and straight away. It's really, really tough. Listen, that's what I go back to when I say chap is about football moves really fast. We all forget really quickly about what goes on and what happens, because all of a sudden you're just seeing what goes on on a Saturday on the pitch and you're going, they're not playing well enough to do in this, they're doing that, they're doing this, they're doing this. And Liverpool aren't being good enough. Of course, Liverpool standards, Liverpool wants to be challenging for the Premier League every single season, and that's not being the case. So, if you're solely doing it off that on its own, then OK, you've made the decision, but I just think you've got a lot deeper than this on what is being dealing with this season. Do you think the role will be the right replacement, Chris? Erm, I just, I mean, I don't know. Will he be the right replacement? You know, what is he taking over? You know, he's taking over an enormous club with talented players. What's the expectation at Liverpool is to challenge at the top end of your game? You're up in the top end of the Premier League. If you look at the job he's done at Bournemouth, was it 12/9/6? Mo Salad, you know, he talked about, didn't he, sort of, Jürgen Klopp and Heavy Metal Football, you know, the way that Bournemouth play. I mean, they, you know, they are, they are quite direct and Liverpool with, you know, quite direct under, under Jürgen Klopp. So, yeah, I think he's, he's a very talented manager who has earned the right, um, through his experiences with respect to Bournemouth and, when he was in Spain as a valicana, they, you know, were, you know, not big clubs. This is, this is, you know, an enormous step for him, but he's, you know, he's done the hard yards and earned the right, erm, but it's, you know, it's a, it's a, it's a difficult time to take over. But in some ways, you better off taking over when the team has had a bit of a stinker, the previous season and, and by Liverpool standards, this season has been a bit of a stinker. The, the staff are not great when you look at managers within the Premier League who then step up to manage a big six team. So, there are nine that have done it since 2010. Hodgson, Rogers, Moise, Potschitino, Lampard, Nuno, Potter, Moreska and Thomas Frank. And out of all of those, only two managed to stay in the job for over a hundred matches. And that was Brendan Rogers when he went from Swansea to Liverpool and Potschitino when he went from Southampton to Spurs. Yeah, and I think that's what a lot of people think about about these managers who stepped up to these clubs and found it tough. And it will be tough, of course, it'll be tough because the expectation at Bournemouth compared to Liverpool is, it's completely different. I look at two ways. Is it, is it just down, sorry, comment? Yes. It's an expectation because you started your career at Liverpool, you played at Wolves, you played at Everton, you've been at different size clubs with different expectations within the Premier League. Is it simply expectation? I think it's expectation, I think, yeah, I think I'm massive part of it's expectation mate because Bournemouth, for example, I've punched up all the weightlaces and I've not made so. What he's done with Bournemouth has been incredible. It's been fantastic. And I was going to say that I've loved the way he'd been given an opportunity because I look at some other managers in the Premier League, you're doing ever so well, so you look at someone like here, so you look at keyfanders, now it is doing unbelievably well. I'd love to see these managers go up and get this opportunity, but when you're reading up stats like that, clubs will look at them, stats and go, I'm not so sure because can they make that jump to a bigger club? So I'm hoping he goes in there and flies and does really well because then you'll see other managers do well, but I think I'm a huge part of it's expectation. Bournemouth and I are expected to go win the Premier League. Liverpool are expected. Next season, and don't you agree, Erie, or if he takes the Liverpool job, is expected to go win the Premier League in year one? 100% because of the money he spent last summer. Maybe the money they're going to spend this summer, other might tell, there's different. I don't know, but he's going to be expected to go win the Premier League and it's a huge difference compared to Bournemouth. Well, I think you want to make the point, Adam, don't you? Liverpool fans will also expect their team to have the ball. Well, yeah, I think that's true. I think Chris is right that the Liverpool are maybe more direct traditionally than a man city or a Chelsea perhaps even or an Arsenal historically with anger, but Erie, older teams for the last three years haven't usually had most of the ball in a game. That is unusual for Liverpool. It's not saying that Liverpool need to have 70% of the ball, but it's gone up for Bournemouth, so it's 43% in his first season, 48% in his second season, 50% last season. Now that might just be because the players aren't as good and that's the only way that you can go and really go and win the game. But I think Liverpool will probably need that to be 55 to 60, you know, for them to control games in the way that you need to and not give up chances. So I think that is a significant thing and that's a stylistic thing that he's going to have to change. I think I wonder about him and I think he's an amazing coach, I've interviewed him last summer, an incredibly impressive guy. Is that the pace and intensity at which his teams play, we've seen how that works when you've got one game a week in a Premier League season. How does that work when you're in four competitions and you're in, you know, the eight Champions League group stage games? We've seen a lot of tea, you know, you look at what happened to Liverpool this season over that kind of winter period, man city last season as well. Now two seasons goes in it when they barely won a game for about 13 games. We all those Champions League mid weeks. That's something I'd be worried about and also Bournemouth picks up a lot of injuries as well. That was even with one game a week. So I'm curious to see how he adapts to that. I think he's capable of it, but let me expand on that then because I'm to have some many of us spoke to Sky earlier this season along those lines. He said, at the start, I'll be honest, I didn't see it. He had his way of playing. It was very new to us like the way he structured the weeks. We didn't really have any days off. It's very hard for a team going from having Wednesday and Sunday off to no days off. We'd place us today, train on Sunday, you're hanging, your legs are gone, you're doing possession, you have to run around and you're thinking, oh dear, it was very different at the start. It's won't go our way and the fans were saying they needed to be sacked. Then we beat Burnley at home and everything changed. We got used to the system and we just went up from there. But if you've followed that train of thought, then preseason will be massive for them because as Adam says, once the Champions League comes in, he's not going to be able to do what he did there, is he? No, of course not. Not with the amount of games. He's going to have to obviously restructuring his week again where he's going to have to obviously put in the Champions League games. But I think that might be another decision as to why Liverpool have done it now, really early. So if Andonia really gets it within the next week now, the next couple of days, obviously we're reading, he's got a lot of time to prepare and a lot of time to plan for what's obviously going to come his way, come next seasons, whether that's preseason, going into the season, the games he's going to have within the Champions League. I think it's a big factor. And listen, these are all good things. And once some of the annuals talking there when he was there, that's a good thing. Look at where Burnley fans themselves are now. When a new manager comes in and brings fresh ideas as a player, Chris will tell you as well, you desperate to do well. You desperate to take it on board. I agree with Adam, I think Liverpool have to have the ball. I think that's going to be different because I think Liverpool and I'm feel have to have the ball. And it's going to be really interesting how if it is going to be heavy metal football, we see someone like Florian Vert, who's just been saying for over a hundred million, how are you going to get him into that system of playing heavy metal football when he's more of a pocket player receives on the after and drives forward, links the play, he's good on the ball. So he's got all these things to cater in, but it's a massive plus that they've got him it up if he get him early. That he's got a long time to prepare for it. Thank God for the only, I mean that result getting him, getting him off the, I always think, I always think the no days off thing, Connor, I mean that, I mean that, that doesn't go down well as well. Not when you're losing Chris. Like he was. And then, double sessions of course to translate from footballer speak is just a normal day's work. Yeah, but it's not. It is. I mean, it's all about this argument with several footballers in the past. Double session is just a day's work. Yeah, but can I just, if you add it together, it's probably half a day's work. If you just do that, you cannot, if it can I just make the point that it is physical and it is tiring and maybe yourself and Adam wouldn't understand that, but you know, sometimes if you work, you need to lie down. And I'm sure Chris, at times, so there is that aspect. I mean, it'll go. and you know, he'll, he'll coaches, he's always coach. Do you think demeanor is important and how he handles himself is important? Because slot through no fault of his own was not the same kind of effervescent character that Claude pause. And if you aren't that character, it's very hard to then manufacture the, the sort of that passion and, and, and, and, and, rousing and so on and so forth. Do you think it's important at Liverpool is a have to have that personality? 100% even more so that club chap is even more so that club they feed off the manager, that the manager at Liverpool is the most important figure at the football club by an absolute country mile. He's a god when it comes to that football club. It's different at different football clubs. Football clubs look at players and some players might be the hero or certain players might be the hero at Liverpool, it's the manager and you have to have a rapport with the supporters, you have to have this feeling that supporters can look at you and know you're going to make that change the place. And it's the same for the players by the way. I'm the same now as a player. When a manager comes in or you've got a manager, you want him to be uplifting and you want him to be loud and you want him to be energetic and you want, and not all managers like that and I, and I completely get it. And some good managers aren't like that either by the way, but I'm just saying when you're at that football club, I feel like you need to have that, I've never mentioned it before about what my hammer said about heavy metal football. You need to be on the front foot constantly to get the best out of that football club for me. From your experience interviewing him, do you think he'll have that? Adam? Yeah, I think he's really charismatic. I don't know if people saw maybe Liverpool fans can go and look for it. He did it a speech on the pitch at the end of Bournemouth's final game of the season. The other thing that I think Liverpool as a club will really like about him is when I was talking to him about how he felt about Bournemouth had lost half their team last summer. They'd lost almost their entire defence and their goalkeeper and the club had just recruited him new players. So they saw Kirkers and they got Truffa are in for maybe seven or eight million. It was fantastic signing as well. And I said, how do you feel about that? Are you involved? And his view on it was, I'm just an assistant for those who are signing the players. My view on recruitment is I'm not across all of these different leagues in the way that would be necessary to sign them. My expertise as a coach, I trust the people in recruitment to do that job. And I think for Liverpool, when you think of that, Michael Edwards Richard Hughes, Julian Ward, World Wear, that was one of the issues they had with club. Probably one of the reasons why they left previously. I think that will appeal to Liverpool. It will give the club more control. You've got that smile on your face, Chris, which suggests some of his sarcastic as coming. So I was just leaving the space. Always a bit skeptical with stuff like that. You know, happy with the players coming in. Give him a year and a six place finish in his first season. And he'll be saying, well, I need to sign the players myself. Who are these recruitment buffoons? They don't know what they're doing. Chris doesn't codicate it. I'm crafting on the Monday night club. Let's turn our attention to the World Cup. And they've made some late law changes. So 11 days to go to a World Cup. Was it 10 days? Is it 10 days, Dale Johnson? I think it's 10, yeah. It is 10, isn't it? Anyhow, welcome. Thank you. Football issues, correspondents, withers. And before we go into them, why do they wait? Why do they always make law changes before the biggest tournament every four years? I don't think we've ever seen anything like this before. Nothing quite like this. Obviously, we get tweaks before major tournaments. But there are so many things for this World Cup, so many things we're people to keep up with that they're not going to realise as changed until we see it happen in a match. Also, you've come in here without any notes. So do you know all of them? Or am I meant to read these out? I'm pretty much all of them. Because there are a lot. I mean, most of them, most of them are designed at trying to speed the game up, aren't they? Yeah. So the idea is, as we saw in the last couple of World Cup, we had so much added time in these games, 10, 12, 15 minutes. So FIFA's idea is that if they reduce the amount of stopper, reducing the rest of the game, there won't be as much added time. Now, of course, we're going to get three minutes every half, anyway, it's due to the hydration break, which is going to be great. But what we've got instead is we've got a countdown for 10 seconds on goal kicks and throwings. And if you take two long, then possession will change. And then that's not going to be as soon as you get the ball, you've got 10 seconds. It's really about when players are taking too long. Long throws are kind of a 10 second, but if a team starts to like take liberties with time, then the referee will start countdown. A really interesting one is substitutes. Substitutes are 10 seconds to leave the pitch. If you don't leave it in that time, then the substitute can't come on for at least a minute. And we saw this in an international friendly today, where I've trained Japan and Iceland. And Iceland didn't take a substitute off in time. And so the substitute couldn't come on. And this was in the 87th minute. And in that time, Japan scored. So we've already seen, because the international defenders are using these rules to get used to them. So we're just seen in one of the first games, a team score, a goal against 10 men. And another thing we might see this as well with the 60 seconds off the field on an injury. Players, teams playing with 10 players, he's going to really hamper them at times, I think. And I know that's PGMO where we're against 60 seconds in the Premier League, but we're going to have that in English football next season. So the injury, so what if the player has cramp? What if they make us an a player has like severe cramp because they're a little bit dehydrated and they're on the far side of the pitch and they're playing Brazil and the Brazil fans are all on the full surround. I mean, that's ridiculous, isn't it? So if the players are going to be in the slack cutoff. If the players got an injury, a visible injury, then the limit won't apply for obvious reasons. And also they are expanding, or supposedly being more firm on the fact that when you have an injury, you should leave the field at the nearest point. And because obviously a World Cup shouldn't have any security issues, that should not be a problem. And the players should be able to leave in a quick and orderly manner. So is cramp an injury? Well, they could argue that you can't move fast to get off the pitch. So if you're going off as a player to be substituted, you can go off anywhere on the pitch. Anywhere on the on the perimeter, yeah. If you go down with an injury and are treated, but an opposition player isn't booked for a foul, is that right? That's right, then you have to go off the pitch for 60 seconds. Yeah, 60 seconds. What happens if that's a, is that even if it's a head injury? No, concussion doesn't count. There are a few exemptions. If two players collide with each other, like you say, if there's a disciplinary action, or certain factors like that. But for the most part, it will be that if you go down and you need treatment, then then you have to go for 60 seconds. Now, the interesting twist for this is the goalkeeper tactical timeout, which we've heard about all season, leads manager Daniel Farca was very angry against Manchester City early this season. So FIFA have going to ban the goalkeeper tactical timeout. So that's when the goalkeeper goes down the engine, but there's nothing wrong with them. And then all the outfield players run over to the bench. Exactly. So FIFA has said that the referees are going to enforce that the players cannot go over to the touch line to receive instructions. Now, the problem with this is it only solves part of the problem because this is also used to brick momentum. So you're still going to see goalkeepers go down in the 90th minute to stop the opposition attacking because they can do it. And you don't need to go for a tactical team talk. You're achieving what you want to achieve by stopping them and letting them to the game. The referee will, what, move towards the technical areas like a bouncer at a club to stop outfield players going to the coaches. This is a whole question. We had a briefing with PLWD Colleen on Friday and I specifically asked, can you take this a preliminary action to if they go over and have this team talk? And they said no Colleen said we had a briefing of all 48 coaches and they understand the situation. But there is no disciplinary action. So what's going to happen when all these players decide they want to go and have this team talk? They are of course going to have a natural team talk twice a match now anywhere with the hydration breaks. Well, I've seen an image of that from the USA from the USA friendly where there was a hydration break and Richard Potsettino got his laptop out and the whole of the USA team stood around looking at analysis on the laptop. So that that will replace that. Exactly. We are still going to have this this tactical timeout but maybe not at the opportune moment that coach might once it's say when he's being his team's been reduced to 10 men and he wants to redo the formation of tactics. He won't be able to do it at that specific point. It will only be during that three minute hydration break. I was going to ask about the goalkeeper. If you want to be honest, but is it too many? We think it is too many do you think? Do you think we're at a point where we're going? This is a bit silly now. I actually feel quite sorry for the referee here because it strikes me that they have a the countdown. Is that an actual count like a clock in the stadium countdown for a goal kick or throwing? No, it's just going to be there's not going to make it up with this thing. Well, actually you say that Chris. You say that but what it's going to be it's going to be like the goalkeeper when he catches the ball at the moment. The eight seconds. The eight second one. Yeah, the referee is going to monitor it and if he feels like they're taking too long of the goal kick or the throwing then it will raise his hand and do the five second countdown for the last few seconds. I was worried about the eight second one at first to be honest with you, Charles. When we first got briefed on that in the NFL, we got briefed on it and I was sat there and I asked a million questions I was going now. Can't be the case, well, because if we're winning, you want to waste a bit of time or whatever. That was what it was to get rid of and I actually think it's going quite well. I actually think it's going to work quite well. So I'm hoping this will probably be similar but it just seems like an awful lot. So is it one I don't get on trying to work it out? So is it one? So a player gets injured. Yes, he's taken off for 60 seconds. I mean, there's going to be such a rough world cup. You're going to want to really hurt the opposition then. So you have the advantage on you. No, Chris, then you'll get booked. Then you'll get booked if you do that. Yeah, but if you're sly, there's a lot of sly players. I mean, Connor, you know, what's going on? Wow. Sly, so you're standing on people's feet. If you know the opposition's going off for a minute, I mean, that doesn't seem right. That really seems. I mean, that's that's odd that. I think one thing we've got to say here is the reason why all these rules are coming in is because players and coaches are trying to find every which way to get an advantage around the rules. And it's got to the point where so much time has been wasted on goal kicks, rowings, injuries, etc. That they felt that the only way they can tackle it is to bring in these new regulations. And you're absolutely right. The referee is going to spend most of the game counting. Then they are actually making decisions or trying to stop people going over to the bench. Are you, what are you checking ahead at Adam? Well, just everything. Is it, well, all of it, because it's just too much, it's just too much stuff to expect people to just sort of come to terms with 10 days for a tournament. But also, it's also because FIFA are worried, I presume, that their games are going to last too long for the people who are putting this on television, right? Because if you now add in your three minutes in each half for the hydration breaks, the 15 minutes at the end of each half that they're adding on at the end of the World Cup games last time around, plus possibly extra time and penalties, the games are going to start lasting quite a long time unless they clamp down on some of this time wasting stuff. So that's probably also part of what they're thinking. They will be worried about some of this stuff overrunning, I think, for broadcasters. Because there's likely to be more VAR. Because we haven't even got on to that. Oh, Jo. Exactly. And there's now three new areas of VAR for taking to account, which means going to be extra time there. So if we cover that, basically, there's now going to be VAR checks on corners. Only corners, not goal kicks. And they will make sure that that's the right decision. But I got sorry, sorry. So, geez. So if the ball goes out for a corner, they will check it is a corner. Every corner. Every corner. But if the ball's gone out for a goal kick, they won't check whether it might have been a corner. Correct. Okay. And the same. No, sorry. Can you explain this? I got Adam. Can I always feel I always feel halfway through any conversation we have with there. It's important to point out that he doesn't work for FIFA, you have a iFab, PGM or L or anybody else. Anyhow, go on. Sorry. I've seen sort of flicks of this one today, but maybe you can explain it funny. There's also seems to be some rule that if an offense takes place by an attacking player before a corner is in play, that that will be penalised by the referee. Is that correct via VAR? Yeah. So that's the fun one that was announced on on Friday and play at PL, Luigi, cleaner was very proud of it because cleaner is absolutely desperate to have anything that can be fixed by VAR, fixed by VAR. And so what he's looking at here is you take the England versus Uruguay in March Yeah. When there was a blocking when the, but that had to use that as the example. That's the example that happened before the corner was taken so that VAR could not disallow the goal. Now they're saying that if that does happen in future, VAR can step in and say there was a foul that was, um, material, had a material impact on the outcome of the goal. I'm nickin' intervene and, um, and this allow the goal, but reached out with the corner. But if there's a, if there's a defender doing that, they're not going to intervene in any way. Oh, I'm gonna. Good news for Connor. You've done me a little bit there. So it's okay. I actually think that's a good one. So I always say it's like referee, if I'm playing in the game and someone's grabbed me and I hate it when the referee comes over and go stop that. Like your kids. Blow your whistle. Give a foul. Do you know me? You know, you get that much blocking now in the box, you get that much stuff. And I always just say to a referee to blow your whistle. But it only worked, but, but it should work both ways. Yeah, both ways. So you just said if it works, you're going to, so that they're staying true to the, the fact that you can't give a foul when the ball's not in play, which is why when it's a goal scored, it's a corner retake, not a free kick to the defense. And obviously for the same logic, the can't give a penalty. And we saw it in top of versus Chelsea. There was an incident when someone was holding, um, but he released before the ball came in place. So they couldn't give a penalty. And that will still be the case. In the same case, if there's a holding on a, on, on, on, on by a defender, the balls and kicked. There's no apparently on no sanction. OK. And then the other thing, they can review second yellows now. Yeah. So, um, they can review second yellows given, but not potential second yellow. So if you're on a yellow card, oh my god. And you commit a potential second yellow card. Therefore, a red card, they will look at that. But if you've been sent off for a second yellow, they will have a look at that. But they're saying that the second yellow has got to be wrong as soon as you look at it. If it's a foul and they give them the second yellow, they're not going to rescind the second yellow for that. It's got to be not a foul to have that card removed. Do you think, do you think all of these will last the whole tournament? Or do you think they'll, I know, because this happens, doesn't it? They'll get 10 days in and think, well, we may need to change that. These are not only just for this tournament, they are in the laws of the game. So they will be in the Premier League next season. All of them, all of them, apart from the corners, which is a competition opt in, which the Premier League won't opt in because no one wants to see every single corner reviewed. And another competition opt in, which we haven't covered yet. Yeah, he plays covering their mouths. Oh, yeah, sent off. So other than that, everything else we've talked about so far will be in the Premier League and the EFL next season. I mean, plenty, plenty of messages on this. Dave and Durham, we need to go to just using a stopwatch start and stop it. Cuts out all the nonsense. David and Manchester, I think we need to be aware of what we're doing. Ultimately, it should just be the referees. It should be stronger and tougher on time wasting. We don't need to legislate for every eventuality. And the other one, which I do kind of see the point here from Bob. If they just allowed place to be treated while the game continues, which does happen in other sports, such as rugby, what will be, as anybody asked, what would be the issue with that? I think they're just concerned with the impact on things like offside. If it defenders down in India, obviously you could say if defenders get in treatment, they don't count for offside, but they're just worried about the impact on on the gaming terms of where the game might be played and things like offside. What do you mean with that? That's a physical grade. We're off the line. And I was going to say, you are about, I'm going to minute chapters. What's going on? What's going on here? Right. Are you talking about all players playing around a physio on the pitch? Why is the treats an injured player? No, no, chapters that can't happen. Not on the line, obviously, because I'm not on that. But just to just, there is, well, yeah, you would have to use, you'd have to use your common sense, but I can see an argument for trying it. That would, that, I mean, you're, you're moaning about it getting more complicated. You're complicating things. You're putting more people on the pitch. I'm putting more people on the pitch. The club doctor having an assist. Oh, you know, anything, anything. Why do you have to take everything to an extreme example that just would not happen? It just would not happen that way. But it could happen. It couldn't. You're not going to allow a physio to come on to treat somebody and it bounce off his head and go into the net. If it could, you use your common sense, you're allowing that. I'm not. You use your common sense. That's it for this episode of The Monday Nightclub. The next football daily will be back at France 98 and will be available to download on Tuesdays. Bye, my thoughts. Hi, I'm Jandy D. My favourite World Cup moment. I used to be France 98. Watching Scotland score at our World Cup. I think that's why I fell in love with football. Here comes Claus! It's a little bit. It's a little bit. It's a little bit. What makes the World Cup so special is purely because it's a global tournament. It brings the whole world together. And there's surprises that's known as the beautiful game. It's the best community in the world. The People World Cup, 2026. Coming soon. Listen, on BBC Sound.