MNC: Palace thrashed 5-0, & trouble in the North-East

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. This week on the interface, we tackle the question of, does AI feel pain? The AI was describing the pain that it was in it said, "The signal is a whisper, a tremor in the marrow of my being." Listen, I was an emo kid in the 2002. This is not that novel. It does, yeah. It sort of sounds like cure lyrics, you know? Plus, does anything actually go viral anymore? It's actually kind of blowing my mind. Me, Jess Maddox, and me, Thomas Dermain, for the interface. Listen, on BBC.com, or wherever you get your podcast. This is the Monday Night Club with Mad Chapman on the football daily podcast. Hello, welcome to the Monday Night Club. On this episode, we're going to discuss not to embarrass lack of goals. The problem's facing Newcastle and Sunderland, but we'll start with Crystal Palace. After they were thrashed 5-0 by Brighton on Sunday, Steph Horton, Chris Sutton, and Rory Smith are here as this Palace Fan Dan Cook from the Hopkins Curl One podcast. I mean, miserable whichever way you look at it, Dan. Yeah, for sure. I mean, fresh. As soon as you said that word, it just was stung. To be quite honest, because I think we all know that it was going to be a defeat. And, you know, it's never nice going into a game like that. Knowing you're going to be on the end of a beating, but to concede three and ten minutes in the fashion that we did. And, you know, it's, it's, I don't want to call it a long-term problem, because we're only seven games into the Premier League season, but the regularity with which we're conceding big chances is genuinely alarming. And it's, I mean, I've been told today he's going to get a bit more time, and I'm not necessarily against that, because, you know, you want to see managers give him time, but it's certainly panic stations for many of us. I mean, you're referring to PSRs getting more time, am I? Yes, I'm assuming. I mean, equally, do you have, do you have some sympathy with what he is dealing with in terms of? La Croix went, Gay obviously went at the start of the year. Matheter and Tsar have both been linked with leaving. Players that they were looking at, they didn't manage to get. I don't know, they were limousangaro, I mean, a lot of teams were limousangaro, he went to Brentford, they had the sort of tussle with Sunderland on Deadline Day of a Fafana, and he went there, which leaves, you know, you're two biggest signings, a Dwight McNeil, who wasn't really a regular for Everton, and Anankalei, the fullback or winback. So do you have sympathy with him? Yeah, I do, for sure. I mean, if you look at the defensive line, obviously we had Mark Gay for half of last season before he went off to Manchester City in a January, and La Croix moved on in the summer. And we've replaced them with Axel Desassi on loan from Chelsea, and honest, who is technically on loan from Chelsea, although I think if you're going to look at it in the books, it's actually an Attalanta player who's going to Chelsea in the next season. But I mean, he is incredibly young and incredibly raw. And Axel Desassi, he had a good time at West Al as far as I can tell, that isn't looked upon as an elite centre bag. And, you know, that in itself is obviously not ideal when you're looking to piece together a defence. But at the same time, I think the two things can be true. You know, if you look at the squads that we've had previously, they have not had the defensive quality that we even have now and they've been a bit more competent at the back. I mean, it's quite alarming. I think we're top of the Premier League for tackles and clearances made, but we're also bottom of the Premier League for the number of XG or the amount of XG conceited. So from my point of view, you know, the defensive problems that we've got, obviously, you can point towards and completely have sympathy with PS4 in terms of the personnel. But there's still that sense that we should be a bit more solid at the back. You know, the best performance we've put in for me across this entire season so far was the Neil and Neil draw a lead because we looked robust defensively. And I mean, I'm going out to Turkey on Wednesday. And we're planning to shift us there. We could easily score twice and lose that game for too. And I think that will be in the back of every Palace fan's minds, unfortunately. It's, I mean, it's, it's a case down just from, from the outside. I mean, you know, you sit, you look at the Premier League table, Palace in 14, you finish 15th last season. Seven points from, from seven games you've got concerns. But out of all the, the new managers who have taken over at the start of the season in the Premier League, I think there was seven in total. He seems to, he seems to have walked into the toughest job because of what Oliver Glasner achieved. And Marcus mentioned the players you've lost and the players you've brought in and they're not, they're not like for like, are they? So it was always going to be a difficult start for him. Is that fair? Yeah, it's definitely a fair point. I think there's a lot of them. There's a lot of goodwill towards him from the Palace fan base. So I don't think this is necessarily one of those situations where any of us are, you know, banging the drum for him to definitely go. But there comes a point when, you know, you look at it defensively. I think we've conceded 17 goals in seven Premier League games. And that's, we've conceded in one against Forrest. Well, I mean, they created, I think, seven or eight big chances in that game. You know, so we want it to work. And there's no doubt about it. From an attacking perspective, we can score goals. You know, we put four past let pause now and we scored two against Leon. In midweek, just gone. We've scored three against Forrest. We've scored, you know, a lot of goals compared to what we'd normally expect. But at the same time, if you're poorest week after week, and you've got a squad that bottom half really in terms of their expectation, you can't be conceded into them free. And that's really where, you know, the struggle comes in. Because I think after, after this game against Beshittas on Thursday, we've got no cash or a home in the Prem. Then we've got full them in the cup. And then we've got spurs away all before the end of the month. And, you know, it's thick and fast. And obviously there's an opportunity there for us to get points on the board. But I do honestly feel that we are quite lucky to have seven points at this stage. And it only takes another couple of defeats to fall into the bottom three and start. So we have to make up ground on everyone else. I did that. I did the palace forest game. And forrest could easily have been three nil up as you were there. But they have big chances. And then all of a sudden it turned, Rory. It sounds like you think it's more a tactical floor than personnel. But then palace from the outside, palace is squad does look weaker than it was. And it doesn't feel as though there was a huge amount of like succession planning, either player wise or manager wise. When, when really the kind of the end of the Glazner era had been sign posted for quite a long time. Yeah, I would make you right there. I think we've gone. I mean, clearly for me gets a bit of unfair stick. I think he's still 21 and he has a lot of potential as far as I'm concerned. He's got a lot of pace and he's getting forward well. I think defensively there's still a fair few edges to be knocked off in. But I think that's a good sign in. I do think that sometimes and it's not anyone's fault necessarily outside of the club. But I think we have been somewhat hamstrung by the financial sort of regulations that we're having to deal with because in order to purchase anyone this summer and conform with UEFA's SCR models, we had to sell. Which is why Maxson's lacrar went and it's largely why I believe Daniel Munoz went. Because it was sort of the maximum value we were going to be able to generate for him. And it does feel a little bit odds with, you know, that sort of pushing on. You win the UEFA conference, you win the FA Cup, you get any Europa League and you have to sell just the butter because of UEFA's regulations being different to the Prems. So I do have a degree of sympathy with the club because, you know, I mean, if it was up to one of the Glazner, he wouldn't have sold Mark Gai at all. And that would have left us in a situation where he would have walked out for free. And it's almost like you're constantly robin' peat as a pay pool to make sure that you've got a transfer but each summer because of European competition. And it does feel a little bit backwards, I suppose. Dan, do you feel as though the team is still a little bit in between styles between Glazner and the new manager just because watch it from a defensive point of view in Palace. There was a lot of gaps in between the units and I feel as though, I think the attack and players are wanting to press, be aggressive, but not necessarily the defenders want to go with them. So that meant that Palace were not really doing anything in terms of either stopping the ball getting played through to the likes of Groce in the pocket. But also the defenders weren't going out. Is that what you feel as a fan? That it's a little bit of mixed kind of style, that they've not really kind of completely transferred over to Sarge's tactics in that sense? I think if you look at the midfield, Timber's been a very good signing for us, by the way. I mean, he sits there in the midfield and he's actually one of our best players, so far this season, but Adam Watson for me has looked a bit lost. I think obviously he's a fantastic passer, but I think he's struggling to sort of understand exactly what his role should be in PSY's system. And even though technically Oliver Glazner played with the back five, with three centre backs and PSY's does the same, I think he wants the defenders to push higher and they're just struggling to do that. And as a result, the midfield looks somewhat lost. It's almost as if Adam Watson's on an island by himself. And, you know, there have been mitigate in circumstances, actually the sassy got sent off against Ipswich, and he served the free match band. So we've had a different back five in terms of personnel, most games. That isn't good for continuity, you know, the captain and best goalkeeper at the club, Dean Henderson's been out for a few weeks. Meteta, as you've mentioned, and Sarge as well, haven't been playing. So there are a number of reasons for PSY's to be down on his luck. But at the same time, I think the main issue for Palace fans at the moment is just getting to a point where we feel solid defensively and until that turns around, you're going to continue to hear noises, I think. And very quickly then, before we let you go and let you enjoy your evening rather than wallowing in this stuff. Have you thought about. If you want to change and who you want, I know the guardian of. I mean, Karin McKenna seems to get in with Palace every second week, I think, but the guardian I mentioned in him, Thomas Frank, is it. I mean, several usual suspects as well. Yeah, I mean, I think that maybe if there was an obvious candidate to come in, the club would pull the trigger quicker. You know, I'm not sure anyone is custom built to come in and. I mean, turn the side around is a bit of a foolish way of saying it, because we're technically not in the bottom three, and we're in Europe, and we've won most recently against Forest and Lake Posnan, so it's not complete panic stations. But I mean, I don't personally feel that Thomas Frank would be a good fit for Crystal Palace at all. I've never felt that he would be. I think there's almost an intangible thing that Crystal Palace managers need to have to be successful, and it's playing with an aggression and a front foot nature without over-committing. And, you know, we've had it before, Alan Padre, who was always of the mindset of scoring five when the opposition score four, it's great from a neutral perspective, but as a fan, it can be horrible to watch. And unfortunately, with PSRs in a moment, we are in that particular sort of vehicle, it's not something that he necessarily wants. But I'm just not sure who comes in and fixes this in the immediate, because to be quite honest, the defence has looked so porous for pretty much the entirety of the campaign. Dan, would you be as angry today, had you lost five nil to hull over the weekend? I mean, just because it was brighter than the derby, is that why? I think the Palace fans are emotional. I mean, to be honest, I agree with you. It's one game in football, and it shouldn't make any difference whether it's against Brighton or Brentford or Everett Dees. But it does, and realistically, my perspective is everyone knew whether their players, coaches, the ownership or the fans that we were going to be second best in that game. If you know that, then the absolute least you can do is keep it tight for the opening 25-30 minutes and make sure you don't get put behind. The second goal was an absolute world. There's no doubt about it, and we've headed the ball into our net to put one nil up in the first four minutes. So that isn't expected. But you just want to see a team that cut their cloth accordingly. And I'm just, that's where we are at the moment, where everyone knew going into it that we were going to lose. And we've ended up losing in the heaviest fashion against Brighton since 1956. So it's not great when you've got a manager who's already under pressure from a defensive perspective, dealing with that sort of body blow as well. Thank you, Dan. Thank you, Hopkins. I'll come to it. I'll come to Curl One podcast. He was like one of the Lincoln. He was like one of the Lincoln fans, I was manager. What was? What in what way? Well, they thought we'd lose every week, as well. Let's, and you did, though, didn't you? Yeah, yeah. Let's move on to Nossy and Forest, who haven't scored a goal at home for eight hours and 26 minutes. They're the only Premier League team yet to score at home this season. And along with Schalke, I just want to two sides without a homeline goal in Europe's big five leagues. And yet, Steph, they're currently fourth in the XG table. So that shows you where the problem is, doesn't it? Yeah, just that final little bit, that little bit of composure, that Nottingham Forest, especially at home, we're probably used to the making it into a bit of a fortress, getting one nil up and being really hard to beat. I think you look at Liam Delaps' performance. Yes, I think you did everything but score. I think in terms of giving the likes of Conzer and Gabriella really tough game, running the channels, being really strong and is back to play. His play was really good, but I think just in terms of that final little bit. Of course, you look at the likes of Morgan Gibbs White wasn't playing yesterday either, so that little bit of quality in that final third was just missing a little bit. But is that not the problem if you spent £50 million on the striker that he's doing everything but score? Yeah, of course. I think we've said that last season, when he was playing for Chelsea, I think he was doing probably a lot of things right, but what he's paid to do is put the ball on the back of the net, and obviously season's gone by. Forrest have heavily relied on the likes of Chris Wood to be that person, that's going to do what he needs to do, which is to score goals. It just looks as though that when they get into the box and that final action, it just seems they're looking a little bit lacking of confidence, which is probably not needed for Forrest and Forrest fans at this moment in time. Rory? Yeah, I've got to admit, I kind of think Forrest is, this isn't going to sound like great analysis. I kind of think it's just one of those things. I'm not sure there's any great problem there that isn't just it will average itself out. As you say, they're fourth in the XG table. They haven't scored at home, Rory, that's a great problem. But if I put your book on XG, do I open it and it just goes, it's just one of those things and then that's it. That is the message that's the parallel title. I don't know, XG is just one of those things. But that's what the XG table is kind of, your XG is kind of there for it. It shows that they are creating chances. They might be one of those teams that falls into that trap of finding it easier to play when they're not expected to dominate the game, which obviously not in its arsenal at home. But at the city ground, they will be forced to take a more proactive approach. I think there's a lot of teams in the Premier League at the moment who want to play on transition and I think that's probably true of Forrest. So maybe it makes sense that their waveforms are a little bit better than their home form. But if they're fourth in the XG table, that suggests they are creating chances. You could possibly worry that Dilapun would and Kalimwendo between them aren't quite of the requisite quality to take those chances. If that stays, there is a problem with the quality of striker. But I think the chances are what it means is that they're having a bit of a bad run at the moment and they'll make up for it by having a better run relatively soon. I'm not worried about Forrest in any way. I think they've got a good squad and a good manager. So XG doesn't matter then. It is a way of measuring the quality of chances you're creating. So if Forrest are fourth in the XG table, which I don't know, then it suggests they are creating plenty of decent chances. They're just not taking them. And most managers, Chris, and I don't know what you said at Lincoln, would encourage their players that if they're in the position to take the chances, eventually those chances will start going in. The issue isn't that Forrest aren't creating chances. Yeah, who's going to top them away? Which is why Chris would not ask to do a bit of measuring. No, so it's amazing. Why is that amazing? Well, why not just play him? If he's showing Liam Dilapun how to score from crosses or running around the box and whacking him in the top corner and Glasner's watching. Do you think, well, why not play the one who's scoring all these goals? He, I hate it when you make a really good point. And it makes me laugh as well. He apparently Chris would spoke to the team. I'll go into all of a glass and said to them, never lose your confidence in your ability. And he said, there's always another chance around the corner. And you wait for the next one and then you have the next opportunity to get your goal. Just be like me. That's what you would have said. If you like me, we'd kick on. We'd be in Europe now. We'd be challenging for the title. If you were all like me. What point would you start to be cut? I mean, I'm looking at the next three home games, you know, which are which are city Chelsea and Brighton. At what point do you start to become concerned overall? I don't know if Forrest fans are or not. Concerned overall, or even just cut, you don't want the home form to become a real issue. Do you not, if not when you've got a ground like there you have? No, and you look at the previous results in terms of the played spurs and the played Coventry at home where you think and that was an opportunity for Forrest as a team at home to kind of get them wins, get the points in the board ahead of these next winner fixtures because like what Rory said in terms of the XG, probably the XG will go down against potentially the likes of City and Chelsea because of how well both teams are doing. So, they'll be disappointed because they've had their opportunities to be able to get the wins on the board, but they haven't. And I think as a fan, I think it's hard because you want them to see them do well at home. You want them to kind of have the city ground rocking where you know that it's really hard for teams to come into play and to try and get the points, but I think when you're not scoring, I think that will always be in the back of a mind of a fans mind and also a player's mind because you're expected to go and do something especially in front of your home fans. Now, what do you mean by not like when you've got a ground like they have? I didn't understand that. I mean, they've got every ground has four stands. Oh, what I meant for the park doesn't. Yeah, but yeah, bring them on. Say no more. I don't need to say it. No, my point was their home, that atmosphere of forest is normally one of the better home atmospheres when you go to a lot of football. And therefore they didn't score a lot of goals last year. But what you don't want is you know what I mean. What you don't want is the city ground to become a place of fear every other way. What you mean is that the city ground could be like Alan Droid. It could be a genuine advantage to a team. Well, I think it has been pushed on. Yeah, it has been at times. Yeah, great. Yeah. And if the team don't win there for a long period of time, then it becomes a bit of a burden, just the place gets fractured. And that can sometimes kind of filter down to the players. The other big X factor with forest is Marinactius. He put a lot of kind of investment into getting Oliver Glasner. It felt like that was an appointment that might last But if they don't win their next three home games then I mean evangelist marinatus is not the world's most patient mat I think that's even he wouldn't take exception to that description and that then does Change everything does it put forest back in that kind of churn of not being quite sure You know what what their expectations are for the season what they're meant to be achieving and suddenly they're under a lot of pressure But I don't want to pick you up Rory I don't want to pick you up on your stats, but I think they've had one win in 15 at home So it's hardly been a fortress. I think eight goals in the last 14 games at home and four of those are against Burnley So do they count and so yeah, it's been they've been rattling them in as I say I think there is and but then I do wonder whether there's a lot of teams now Who who find it easier to to be the team that has less of the ball? I think that is a factor as well that there's quite a few teams who seem to struttle more when they are expected to define the place With five lives for and BBC sounds hit all the lines exciting action from the WSL and it's bigger and better than ever before Get all the latest news and interviews from the biggest stars of the women's game with BBC women's for all weekly We were happy with the win. We were happy with some parts of the game that we played really well What we really wanted to do better listen with the BBC sounds at This is the Monday night club with Mark Chapman on the football daily podcast It's a very much a doom and gloom section this but if we do new can I'll give you first I'll give you first crack at Newcastle stuff Which you may like or you may not it's starting to feel a little disgruntled Yeah, it does I think I think the crowd reaction especially Saturday against Villa But also the performance against Coventry away. I think that was something that Watching the game would you ever have seen that result come and probably not but I think from a Newcastle perspective I think the fans are disheartened at this moment in time in terms of you lose three of your best players in the summer not really being replaced you've got a new manager that's come that's come in trying to do new things that Probably they're so used to how Eddie how work so getting adjusted to that it's been different and I think especially It's in James's park. I think when we speak about home grounds and obviously as a son and fan this is probably not to me I would say very lightly, but it's a hard place to go to send James's park because of The jordies in terms of the atmosphere, but also the fact that you have a team that normally puts in a lot of tackles Is really hard work and puts the bodies on the line and they've not really seen that from their team so far this season and I think Villa We've had a lot of question marks over Villa and how they would cope with losing the likes of Morgan Rogers and Ollie Watkins But I think you and I am a we went to send James's park and played the perfect game plan and in Newcastle really struggled and I can understand Why the fans are really disgruntled? Well, particularly when the winner comes from somebody they wanted to sign and he chose Villa over It was always going to happen. I think when you see when you know that he's already been linked to the team I think that's just something that happens in football. He was always going to score The players that they have signed could easily be very very I mean, they've just signed very young, haven't they? Yeah, and I think sometimes that obviously they got a they've got a take time to adjust I think obviously look at Nico Gonzalez from Manchester City I think got so much potential to be able to play that number six role really well But I think when the teams are playing well when you play in that position, you can be kind of caught in between Whether you're trying to protect you back for you're trying to start attacks And I think that was definitely the case over the last couple of games watching him I think you you struggle a little bit in there by himself with not much protection and from a defensive point of view The conceding a lot of easy chances, which is not normally like Newcastle I think the the profile of player they signed in the summer it was you know at the time and it may well bear fruit long-term But they went very young and relatively in experience then even the big money the the larger money ones Fernandez Pardo I think he's 21, you know, they're not they didn't go in and go out and sign a lot of kind of established established Premier League players they didn't look at even the age profile that Villa went for maybe in certain positions And I think in the first few weeks of the season there was a little bit of a Sort of bats to the wall. We're gonna come out fighting kind of approach Jysta came in really late. There's maybe an element there that teams don't quite know what to expect from him They've not seen the sample of what he can do with this team Whereas now it looks like everyone's had sort of five six games Work out what he does kind of what his his patterns of movement are start to counteract them and that first rush of energy of all those young players Come into the team was worn off and what you're left with is a team that is has lots and lots of talent that is based around quite a lot of young players With a coach who is who has been in saviour a bit three years It is meant to be very talented jisla, but is is adapting to the Premier League and also And a you know attack that's been stripped of ease at Anthony Gordon kind of their main threats for Newcastle Bruno and Sandra Coming from midfield as well. They have all gone This is kind of what maybe would have anticipated from Newcastle if you said at the start Let's see at the end of last season Newcastle will lose Anthony Gordon Bruno de Marrages and Sandra to early and Eddie how you probably get this to be honest Yeah, on the face of things. I mean mid you know their mid table I've they've had an ok start. I mean it's it's hard You know after only seven games to to make a call about Teams but they are very chaotic in the way that they play they are they are very direct They like to press you always felt that the villa With the way that that they set up and the structure that they have would would pick them off and that's what they did do And it's a villain team who had Champions League football in the week And I think that is what concerns Newcastle fans most of all they didn't really look like scoring and then you know He got a bit astic didn't he at the end of the game for putting Dan burn on as a centre for he should have put him Up front earlier he should have he should have wacked him on 10 minutes earlier and done it because they actually looked More dangerous Just on that crazy he hit back is a bit sensationalist. Let me I'll give you the quote that he said after it I think the fans understood at least the smart ones That we want to go all in with Dan up front to create a bit more chaos then get the second ball in the box So there were two or three occasions like that in the final six seven minutes and if you score out of that And then no one talks about it and you probably don't ask this question Yeah, and do you know what they didn't look like scoring in open play they had the the botman effort Which you know is a good save from Suzuki in the in the second off other than that villa were really comfortable So what he did is just just because Dan burn is a defender I mean it was actually that they looked a threat. They went second balls diagonals and you know There was a moment right at the end where you thought they're gonna get a break in the box just because of because of that So I don't have a problem with that I mean, we you know we've seen that over the years Martin and Eels Leicester team those to stick Elliott and tag it Seeing Christopher Samber Robert Hoof's go forward and you have to score a goal So how are you gonna score? There's you know, he shouldn't be criticized for that in any way shape or form, but he he does It does worry me watching them that they seem to be a team who are all in just Absolutely all in this is the way we're gonna do. It's the way we're gonna play We're gonna we're gonna press hard. We're gonna give it the role But they will get picked off unless they become a little bit more balanced But the other thing in all of this and I we've talked about their their attacking issues with the players that have left Only Ips which have conceded more goals than they have this season in the Premier League They've they've conceded four in their last two away games at Coventry and Leeds They've kept two clean sheets in their last 23 games at home. They've conceded in their last 16 in all competition And one that Chris always likes in this calendar year That no side has conceded more goals. I think to kind of marry up what Chris has said in terms of that kind of all and nothing Attitude I think then that has the cut that it has consequences if you are as a team trying to press to Trying to be brave you've got to give up something on the pitch chappers and sometimes that is potentially Spacing between units space in behind the backline or you're giving up more chances But you hope and that you do that really well to be able to stop that at the back end I think Newcastle just haven't got that balance yet and when we speak about young players There's so enthusiastic they've got so much energy to be able to do that They don't think about what's behind them and I think that's something that Newcastle have probably shown over the last few games Especially against commentary whenever they kind of got picked off We all thought it was probably going to be a goal or a chance on goals So I do think that is a little bit of a flaw Maybe a tactical and kind of an awareness Peace in terms of the team and new team kind of Bringing a new tactic with a new manager But I do think there's a lot of consequences to the actions that you do when you're trying to press really high and aggressive and Envilla like what Chris said before they were able to play their way through Quite easily and it shouldn't be that easier, especially when you're at St James's Park Couple of stories that have come out today Serena Mae'n rhwb i'w i'r rhwb i'r rhwb i'r rhwb i'r rhwb i'r rhwb i'r rhwb i'r rhwb i'r rhwb i'r rhwb i'r rhwb i'r rhwb Mae'r yng Nghymru a'r gwybod gweithio. Mae'r gweithio gweithio gweithio gweithio yng Nghymru a'r gweithio yng Nghymru a'r gwe Mae'n gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r Mae'r yng Nghymru a'r yng Nghymru yn yng Nghymru'r yng Nghymru yn yng Nghymru yn yng Nghymru yn yng Nghymru yn yng Nghymru yn yng Nghymru yn yng Nghymru yn Yng Nghymru yn Yng Nghymru yn Yng Nghymru yn Yng Nghymru yn Yng Ng yn fawr y ffordd oeddwn i'n ffordd o ffordd oeddwn i'r ffordd oeddwn i'r ffordd oeddwn i'r ffordd oeddwn i'r ffordd 20.000 euros. 20.000 euros, staff. 50.000. 50.000, so 20.000 and 50.000, Chris? No, it's going to be lower than that. 850 euros. Well, first of all, he's been suspended for 30 days back dated to the time of the offence, so he actually won't miss any matches. So that's what I was just doing. That's one of those things. Yeah, I mean, just, yeah, exactly. It can't be helped. So 50.000 and 20.000, what did you say? 800 and what? 850. He's been fined 255 euros. Does that include a transaction fee? 255 euros, because, I mean, obviously. So he's also suspended, and he's been fined that. This is because the Portuguese football federation took into account his contributions to soccer, in no words, and his recognition for athletic merit. And the other thing in all of this, which I find the most, the most hilarious thing of all of this, is that as part of his defense, he submitted his CV as evidence for his sporting achievements. Now, I would love, I would genuinely love to see how Cristiano Ronaldo sets out his CV. He doesn't need anybody else, surely Chapters. I was in one of them redfolders, you know. Exactly. Name, do you prefer the top? Seven GCSEs? All of all of them are brilliant. So there you go. He will be available for international football immediately after a suspended 30-day suspension and a 255 euro fine. That doesn't get us out to talking about Sunderland's staff. So we've done Newcastle. Are you worried? I think I'm more worried about the actual performance yesterday, rather than the whole picture, because I think watching as a Sunderland fan, I think we've had good performances this season. I think I look at Ipswich away. We probably deserve to win. It was a last-minute goal that we conceded. Even Man City playing at the Etihad, I think, in terms of we've played really, really well. I think as Sunderland fans at this moment in time, looking at the bomb of performance and isolation, I think, of course, you're missing the likes of Dan Ballard, you're missing Brian Robbie, who's a big, big player, and he's really key to what everything Sunderland does. But we knew that this situation might happen, especially with playing European football. And I think, going forward, we aren't really creating the chance that we did potentially last year, but from a defensive point of view, Chappers, the two goals that we conceded yesterday was not acceptable. Okay, I'll read you the quote from Muckierly. He said, "We're not good enough. We deserve to be where we are today." 19, that is. And actually, if Spurs win tonight, then they will go bottom. Anyhow, we deserve to be where we are. Why? I don't know. Maybe we've become arrogant. I don't know. This is what I think. What do you think he means by that? You surprised he said it. Do you wonder whether he means complacent? I think it's a bit of a damp, dammit word, especially if you're a player in the change room in terms of one of your players saying that you are arrogant. I quite like these interviews, I think, as a Sunderland fan and some of that's one, you just want, honestly, you want people that are living it every single day to be able to come out and give the fans what they probably, that confirmation what they're seeing, which I don't think it's arrogance. I think we've just really stopped doing what we would normally do last season, which would be really hard to be. I think we can't see too many chances at this moment in time and obviously not scaring enough. But I think if there was one player that could probably say what he did, it would be him. Because he's probably been our best player over the last few games, I think, even yesterday. He was trying everything to get the team back into the game even when we down to 10 men. But I think it's so hard to kind of go from what we did last year, which was we probably exceeded all expectations in terms of getting into Europe the way that we played, the start of the season. I think it is basically going back to what Sunderland teams do best. And I think as a Sunderland fan, it's just about sticking with the team. I think there's been such a kind of mix of emotions and I get, and rightly so for those that traveled out of bomb, if it's a long way to go to see your team play poorly and not what they kind of really identify with. But as a player to come out, I thought it was a really balanced interview and I think he was kind of saying we need to do better, which is the right thing as a fan that you want to hear. And presumably, if he's been among the better players this season, then that gives him a sort of right to say, it's not like he's been playing poorly and he's just using all the others of being terrible and letting him down. He's saying, look, I've kept my standards up. You lot have to do it as well. But to be honest, I think the Europe thing is completely valid. They've lost to Arsenal City and Brighton. And all right, you can make a case that, if Bryant weren't in amazing form and Sunderland might want to beat Brighton at home, but Bryant are in amazing form. So there's no great shame in that. They lost to the 91st minute day in stitch pitch on the opening day. Well, that counts, Rory. It does count, Chris. There is a real context to it. So it's a close game against the newly promoted team away from home that he's tricky. Manny Knight had lost a hole on the opening day. It's a slightly difficult fixture. They beat fuller at home, as you'd expect. So you could kind of make a test that the performance of James Bournemouth, which comes what four days after a European game, as they're having to get used to that first day, Sunday, Stedual, that's the first really bad performance of the season. They've got a point at Brentford. That's not a bad result. Then it is quite early to panic. It's after playing Arsenal and City and the form team in the lead, Brighton, in your first seven games. That is a rough start for Sunderland. And also, the other thing, the other interesting stat with them, Steph, is that no side has committed more errors leading to goals this season. And Regis Lebrisa said it's always different. It's a different player every time. So it's hard to fix with a specific pattern. IE, it's not that we're doing something wrong. Week in, week out. It's that someone's dropping one. Yeah, we're getting punished for that in terms of even yesterday. Look at Alderetti, probably at fault for both of the goals. Not something that I think he did the same potential mistake against Ipswichers. Well, he came on his sub the last 10 minutes and gave the ball away and Ipswich went in scoured. So I do feel as though sometimes when the looks not with you or things are not happening, I think you do get punished. And that's the nature of the Premier League. And I think in terms of what Rory said, in terms of European football, Bournemouth were in exactly the same position as Sunderland. And Sunderland actually rotated a lot of their team. They brought new a players back into the side. So I think that's what Sunderland fans are now looking at in terms of it's not exactly the same 11. They're travelled to Portugal and then went to Bournemouth on the Sunday. It was a totally different team. And you've got players like Grant and Jacka who's so experienced, it ends all a fear that was brought quality to the side of course, you're missing some key players. oeddwn i'r ffordd. he still should be able to kind of create and put up a bit more of a fight against Bournemouth. - The European picture, presumably then Rory, plays out a bit more over the next six weeks, really. I'm just looking at their fixtures so that they're away to let Poznan on Thursday. And then they've got leads at home. So that's a big few days. Then they've got Dina Mazzagra at home, and then Sunderlanda, and then Chelsea at home. - That'd be interesting. - They would, wouldn't it? Give them a chance if they played themselves. I would have thought, I don't know. Dina Mazzagra and then Chelsea. And then at the end of November, they've got another two home games with their European fixtures. They've got a European fixture on the Thursday evening against Jagiellonia and then Spurs at home. - Yeah, and having a home game after your pre-game is helpful. There's still disruption, it's still difficult. I've got close friend of mine, Sunderlanda fan, and when they qualified for Europe on the last day of last season, he was absolutely delighted. He never thought he'd see Sunderland in Europe in his lifetime. I think they came close one point in the '90s, maybe. That Kevin Phillips team, I think, came close to getting into Europe. But his second thought immediately was, we don't have the squad for this, because there is a really, it's really difficult making that transition for the first season. - Is he happy now then? - If you knew him, Chris, you'd know he's never really happy. But I mean, Steph, we have an actual Sunderland fan with us, and Steph, I think, obviously, to wrap me if I'm wrong, but my instinct is that most Sunderland fans would accept a bit of a lead drop-off in exchange for a European run. The risk is that you have to make sure you don't drop too far in the Premier League. - Yeah, definitely, and I think that is probably in the back of Sunderland fans' minds in terms of, and I think you're right in terms of the recruitment worry, I think, Sunderland never expected to make the signings that they did last summer when they're coming into Premier League, because he changed the whole squad he brought players in. But I think when you finish seven in the Premier League, you've got European places, then you're probably thinking, as a team, as a club, that you've got more chance of attracting players to the stadium alike, to then kind of bolster the squad, and it's not just about numbers, it's about quality, and even the likes of the Fafana deal and the last day of the transfer window, why did we leave it so late to the last hour to get someone like him at Sunderland? So I think in terms of the bigger picture, I do agree with that. If we are European football, of course, standing in the Premier League's a must. - Steph, thank you very much. - Thank you. - Chris Rory as well. - One has won the Champions League. - No. - Premier League? - Nope. - The FA Cup? - No. - Ballon door? - Ballon, don't. - What have you won? - I won the Champions League Mastermind. - Or I won a core scholarship to extra cathedral. - Anything football related? - A complete of the Euro 96 stickable. - You won, so the text ran out on 606. - Still one of my proudest moments. - That'll do. - A football daily podcast. - With Rick Edwards and Lloyd Griffith, backed by popularish demand. - Listen on BBC Sounds. - This week on The Interface, we tackle the question of, does AI feel pain? - The AI was describing the pain that it was in it said, the signal is a whisper, a tremor in the marrow of my being. - Listen, I was an emo kid in the 2002. - It does, yeah, it sort of sounds like cure lyrics, you know? - Plus, does anything actually go viral anymore? - It's actually kind of blowing my mind. - Join me, Jess Maddox. - And me, Thomas Jermaine, for The Interface. - Listen on BBC.com, or wherever you get your podcast.