MNC: England, Alex Scott injury & Robbie Savage on his new job!

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. Fall flavors are waiting for you at Whole Foods Market. Cozy picks all through the store, like maple leaf cookies from 365 brand. Swing by the bakery for pumpkin cheesecake, here for a limited time. And pumpkin turmeric bread freshly baked every single day. Sip the season with 365 brand cinnamon spice coffee and pumpkin spice creamer. While you still can, spice up fall at Whole Foods Market. It felt like everything I believed in was suddenly collapsing. This is the story of an Islamic boarding school in Indonesia with a dark secret of the school's head teacher. This was someone I respected above anyone else. And the investigation led by students he's trying to silence. This is the fleet to the media. I'll be destroyed. This is World of Secrets, catching my teacher. Listen on BBC.com, the BBC app, or wherever you get your BBC podcasts. This is the Monday nightclub with Alistair Bruce Paul on the football daily podcast. Hello and welcome to the Monday nightclub former Scotland International Charly. Adam joined the regular's Rory Smith and Chris Sutton who's got a rather mischievous look on his face. This evening, which worries me, always worries me, is slightly Chrissie okay? Yeah, I just wondered where our leader is this evening. Where's Mark? Mark Chapman. Not here this evening. So they're normally a second in charge, is Kelly Kate's, where's Kelly Kate's this evening? I don't know, Chris. I don't know. Thank you for that, Chris. Charlie, how are you? Very well. Thank you. Are you really, Charlie? Are you really after your weekend? Yeah, big win against, big win against Celtic in the semi. Yes. It's like anything, Chris. You get to that final point and you don't deliver that to this point thing. You know what it's like, you know, from you need deliver, I mean, I've never delivered it to find the last moment. But ultimately, one victory was nice to take. What's this, what's the competition here, Charlie? You were playing, right? Yeah, so within the tenet sixes, which is something that was a long, long time ago in Scotland, bit like Master's football and back in the day, the actual real players used to play. So the place from the clubs would come and play, but it was all dreads. I had ones now and yeah, we're just old retired, Charlie. I heard you had an underage player. No, I know underage players, you know, I mean, they're all desperate with that. You know what it's like, Chris, we abide by the rules that range us. And then we managed to just get people that were really important at that moment for us. So Charlie, Adam is here for the next couple of hours, Rory Smith as well. Rory, how's your, how's your international break been so far as we move to the third week? Yeah, just really focused on the international football and nothing else is happening. Yeah, it's been, it's been dead quiet, to be honest. I think I've written about a million words about Manchester City in the last ten days, yeah. Okay, doesn't feature in the show tonight. You might be, you might be pleased to hear. So we're about to hear from Thomas Tuchel, who's been talking to John Murray today, ahead of England's game against Czechia at Wembley tomorrow night. John is going to join us very shortly. Just before we do that, I wanted to ask you all very briefly about England's win and performance in Croatia on Saturday night. I mean, stand out, stand out, score line. Chris, do you think, do you think England fans should rightly be getting excited about that? Or are people going a little overboard? Yeah, it's really difficult to answer because on the face of things. I mean, that was, that was one of the best England team performances that I think I have ever seen. But you have to temper that with how poor Croatia were, you know, physically, just miles off at Modrich, great players being as, you know, as, you know, he's come to the end, in Paris H and England, England were brilliant and, and they were good against the Czechs. But in the big test against Spain, they came up short, but played pretty well in that, in that game. Yeah, I just, I think it's really difficult because in many respects, Thomas Tuchel, the performance against Spain was good. And, and the last two results have been really, really positive, but still in the back of my mind. And I think a lot of England fans mind is that, you know, why couldn't England be as brave as that against Argentina? So I can understand sort of both sides of that. Charlie, how, how did you rate it? I thought it was excellent. I think if you, if I'm, if I'm in England, you know, that, that's the problem. We keep going, you want to keep going back to Argentina, to Argentina. It's going, you can't, you can't pick it up. It's, you don't have to leave it and look at the next performances. What is the next performance for the England? They're always going to go off five or all crouched. The biggest thing for England will be that next club. They can actually go and lift the trophy. But, and again, like you're saying, there's good moments against Spain. We can't keep referring back to Argentina, Argentina because, you know, on the day in Thomas Tuchel. We can, we're English. We can. That's what, that's what we do. It's just a, it's a nice, isn't it? But, but I think you have to look forward and realize what, what's special talent you have? And I keep saying that, like, you know, some, some top, top players in the world at the moment in, in your national team should actually enjoy watching them. Yeah, of course, there's going to be hard days and there's going to be disappointments. But it's not about getting on these lads straight away at this and that. Thomas Tuchel made mistakes. You'll know that he won't publicly come out and say that because he want to protect himself, but also as well. You know, wouldn't it be surprised to me during this camp that he's opened up to the players and said, yeah, I could have done things better or we could have done the things better. And I think responsibility for that. I'm learning a bit of grip now. This is a real chance for them to, to start to stamp their authority. They've got some wonderful players. And, you know, I think, like I say, I think Croatia, but ultimately, that's the thing and how they play as well. Yeah, go on, Roy. I was going to say in London, it's like a weird position that Charlie's completely right. Like you can't keep harping on about Argentine because the game is over. It was four months ago, whatever, and you know, whatever happened happening to protect how you like. But it's tricky for England, I think, because. That for all that it's absolutely right that they've got a brilliant generation of players. They are, you know, permanently in consideration for semi finals finals of major tournaments. I think I'll probably go into the euros as favourites, not least, obviously, does it's on home soil. But if you look at around all of the other major nations in Europe, they've got, there's a sense of a story starting. So Germany, obviously, under the Jordan club, Italy, Roberto Mancini's back. Zinedine's a dance in charge of France, and it's really exciting. The, you know, Javi Hernandez is the Dutch manager now. There's all, there's that kind of that freshness to it. Whereas in London, that slightly curious position of having the manager who was largely blamed, rightly or wrongly, for the defeat to Argentina. He is now in charge of taking the same group of players, all of whom we know are really good. And, and I guess all you can do in that scenario is try and look for signs of why it might be different next time. But to do that, you have to inevitably compare it to what went before. And it does, I think Charlie's right, it does kind of leave them a little bit sort of trapped in this stasis. It's an incredible result against Croatia, even allowing for a poor performance. It's the most goals they've scored away from home. It's anyone other than San Marino. Croatia are a proper, you know, it's, that's not a dimmy of a game. That's a really impressive kind of, you know, flagging the ground performance. But it has to be parsed for, well, what does it mean about the euros in two years time? And that's, that's inherently speculative and quite frustrating exercise. But there is an element, I just, just, just quickly on that. You know, you could look at England in truth. And I don't, I know because of what Charlie said and Rory said, we're not allowed to look back. But in the big, proper games against the, you know, against the big nations. And it, I mean, you might count France. I don't count France really, because I don't think that that was. No, you're talking pressure knockout games. Yeah, France, but I don't count third place play. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, no, exactly. But you could, you could view this England team as flat track bullies. Okay. Look, let's, let's bring in the BBC's football correspondent, John Murray, because he has watched plenty of England down the years. I enjoyed listening to the commentary, John, on Saturday night. And you clearly enjoyed these surroundings. But in terms of that England performance and, you know, compared to all the other performances you've seen, are you quite struck by it? Well, I mean, it is one of those where, is it how good England were, is it how bad Croatia were, or is it a mix of the two, which it probably is? And Croatia were astonishingly bad, staggeringly bad for that group of players, inexplicably bad. I honestly couldn't get my head around that. But England, you know, some of the football that they played, that the front four, and you will obviously talk about Jude Balingham, I thought was excellent in the spells where England were good against Spain, in that defeat at Wembley. You know, he's just a colossus in there. And also added to that, Alex Scott, starting for England for the first time, you know, the role that he played in it all as well. And that's why it's such a shame, really, from an England point of view, that he's not going to be able to play in this match against, against Czechia tomorrow night. But where they are, you know, after that, there were a lot of question marks in my mind, but what this window was going to be like for England coming so soon as it did after the World Cup. But actually, after that Spain defeat, you know, they put together the two wins that they've had against Czechia and that on Saturday night against Croatia. and if they're able to win again, it will be almost certainly in the quarterfinals of this competition in March. Yeah, well, we'll talk a little bit more about Alex Scott, his performance and now his injury in just a second here on the Monday night club. But as promised, let's hear from Thomas Tuckle. So here he is on whether he thinks Jude Bellingham is performing at an even higher level than he did at the World Cup. He plays another level, I think, very reliable, very much involved in almost every attack in every phase of the game. Very reliable, very mature performances, even more economic in the way how he plays, almost no ball losses. The risk that he takes is well taken as in the right moment, he's involved in goals, he's involved in assists, so yeah, he's highest level. And what about Harry Kim in a historical context? I know that every national team has its history, but England and Scotland played in the very first international match. So to equal the record of most international caps for that team is a little more special, isn't it? Yeah, it is, it is, and it will put him in a very special bracket, rightly deserved so. So hopefully he stays fit today in training and is ready to go for tomorrow because then we will make it happen. He deserves it and there will be more matches to come, so if he stays fit and he does everything to stay fit, you will see him later on the training pitch. He will be the first one to be out, he will be the first one to lead warm-up. That's where he is at the moment and that's why it's possible for him to put performances out like this, but it is a very, very special occasion. And hopefully the next one in next camp will make him the record holder. Yeah, that record, John, has stood since 1990, so nearly for 40 years Peter Shelton's last cap in 1990. It's going to be a real landmark occasion for Harry Kane tomorrow night, isn't it? Well, it is, yes, and likewise in November, assuming that he's involved in both matches. And I did see him at training this afternoon and it was exactly as Thomas Tuchel said, he led the England team out, as he almost always does for training. First man onto the pitch, that would be it, that would be breaking the record. And as I say, many more players have got many more international caps, but I think to do it for England because they did play in the first international in 1872 against Scotland. The longest international history to have played more matches for the men's senior team, for the team that has had a longer history in international football, that is something certainly to be proud of. On Peter Shelton, John, Thomas Tuchel said something about the impression that Shelton had made on him as a young boy, didn't he? Yes, he said to us that when he was a youngster, he would pretend to beat Peter Shelton, and he said, "André Clemens as well." Back to the time when Shelton and Clemens for a period of time actually alternated as the England goalkeeper. So that did surprise me, I must say. That's bizarre, isn't it? Young German lad pretending to be an English goalkeeper. Chris taking you back, back in the day in the playground, who would it have been? Well, not even for us for my team, yet. Peter Shelton, Trevor Francis. Well, I wouldn't be a goalkeeper, would it? Probably not. No, Charlie. Well, I probably think I was doing back then for my looks and writing for my time, so they were probably two growing up. I could want to be, I would think a bit better, I mean, writing, they were my two favourites coming growing up. Brori? Brori? Brori, would that be something? Well, I was wailing somewhere. Very much. Very much, I was growing up in the 1990s, Chris, so I, I have to say Chris Sutton is the person I impersonated in the playground. The Chelsea year, I spent that, I was 15 then, I spent all year missing chances. That was perfect. Oh, dear, man. John, we've got a chat a bit of Jew Bellingham too. And actually, in a slightly wider context here, in terms of, we're going to get onto the subject of football as sort of playing their club football abroad, and what it's done for them as players, and how they bring that into international football. So he's become the most captain England player ever in terms of caps one whilst playing his club football overseas. So he's overtaken David Beckham in that regard. Now Trevor Chalabar has been speaking today. He joined Como in Italy in the summer, the club where ses Fabregas is in charge. And he's been speaking about the benefits of playing abroad. Even the Premier League, even your comfort zone where I've been all my life back at home will say help towards me. The times when I went on loan in France, all the reason because obviously I've already done that abroad life, and I know it's like I know what's needed. So for me, it wasn't really a hard decision, or in terms of fitting in well, fitting really well. And yeah, like I've really adapted well, and I'm loving it now. And how important was the ses Fabregas factor as well? I think yeah, the most important for me, he ticked all the boxes, and yeah, he made the transition really easy. And for my manager, that knows what direction he wants to go in, and what he wants is easy for a player to just obviously make the decision. And when you look at this England squad, there are a number of players now who are playing their football abroad with your experiences. How do you think that can benefit the national side? They bring in all different types of playing, so are all the types of characters. And yeah, it's gelin really well with a squad, and to be part of that is good. So that's Trevor Chalibar talking to Ian Dennis. And John, there's some serious points to be made here. I think you of all the people here might be able to indulge me the most with this one. I always remember watching England beat the Netherlands 4-1 at Euro 96. And the first goal they scored in that game was an Alan Shira penalty that was won by Paul Inz. And I don't know if people can pitch this, listening this, but he was charging forward down the inside right channel. A pass was played into him behind him, and he used a really clever bit of trickery with his right foot to sort of get the ball in front of him. And then basically sort of tempt Danny Blint into a terrible challenge, which conceded the penalty. And I always remember the line after that. People went for was well, season into Milan, look what it's done for him. It's really improved him in that kind of. That's always, always stuck with me. But it is interesting, isn't it, to see what it's done. But really for the likes of Anthony Gordon, I think. And you know, how quickly it's going to happen for him since becoming a Barcelona player. Well, I think with Gordon, he's got a real Barcelona swagger now, hasn't he? Having been a 70 million pound signing by one of the biggest clubs in the world. But as I've said a couple of times over this fortnight, you know, Anthony Gordon is one of only three England internationals who have played for Barcelona. Three, but he's there now. So you've got the Barcelona influence. And it will have enjoyed the Barcelona Real Madrid Interplay between Bellingham and Gordon for England, as well as Bayern Munich with Harry Kane up front. If Chalibre plays tomorrow, obviously that's a coma player, a coma player who'll be in the England team. Jarell Konser is starting on Saturday by a Labour cousin. So you've got to. This is a real sea change for England. I mean, virtually the whole time I've watched England over the decades, you might have won or two. But as many as that. But that's the way the game changes, doesn't it? And actually at the same time, we talk about Spain and France. You know, how many Spain and France players play in the Premier League? So, you know, if you're talking about. If you're talking about, does it help that they're playing for foreign clubs? Well, I think you have to remember how many of the Spain and France players do play in the Premier League? I think the difference with the ince thing, I remember that, Ali. The difference was the ince thing was that that was the period when Serie A was by a mile the best lead in the world. And it was a novelty and almost like an honour that an English player had been chosen to play there. I think the difference now is we don't feel that there's not that sense of kind of intimidation or kind of admiration even for Leeds in the rest of Europe. It's not like people are thinking, "Well, La Leeds are so. All the Bundesliga are so much better than the Premier League." You might think they're a bit better. You might think they're a bit worse. The Premier League is, you know, everybody talks about the Premier League now in the best league. In the best league? Not least the Premier League themselves, Chris, they'd like to say that quite a lot. So, I don't think the benefit is that they've been exposed to a higher level of football. Well, I think John's right that if you've got Camp Nou kind of applauding every touch and worship in you, that probably gives you a bit of swagger. It's probably proof to Anthony Gordon that he belongs in that rarefied air. I think the other thing. And he's obviously admirable to go and play abroad in any context. The other thing is probably physical, isn't it, that it's a slightly. Certainly, maybe not the Bundesliga, but Italy and Spain are certainly slightly slower pages. I think Gordon's a little bit different because he is an absolute pressure machine. So, like, you know, I don't think he's gone to Barcelona because Leeds are a little bit less physical. I think he'd gone because his Barcelona is a wonderful move from. But I just think it's easier for. Not easier, but I think it develops shoes a person and there's a player, the culture. I think it's different culture and methods, different tactical ideas, trends. And again, I'd imagine that we're all speaking when they come back to England camp. What's your manager doing? What's he doing? What's this? Well, I think there's a big thing, but ultimately, these boys now think there's probably a bit of pathway for them to go abroad to get the opportunity for game time experience. because he didn't know that these bad clubs will come. come and pay £67.80 million if they've played enough games or played at a really good higher level, if they've played in Germany, if they've played in Spain, the clubs will come and pay that. I think it's difficult, really difficult for young English talent to go and come through these big academies and get into it. I think you have to be a real special player. Something just to leave a club to then come back to the Premier League and then develop that way. I think Kane has probably, I think, Keynes improved his games and diligence of terms of how he plays the game. Do you not think he would have scored whichever team he would have gone to, Harry Kane? Yeah, but I think Bians made them probably a better sort of player in terms of acting clear in terms of movement. He links to play when he drops, when he stays high, I think companies will be amazing for him. He's playing in a team that wins a lot. So again, there's that personal pride of that. By the way, Harry Kane could have stayed at Tottenham for his whole career. Mike, well, we've seen in the last three years that they've got no chance of winning anything. Okay, they won that week with Orange, but that's not enough for a player of Harry Kane's quality. So he's going to Bayern and I think he's in, I think he's games going to another level in terms of how he's performing. Did you ever have a chance to do it, Charlie, to move abroad? No, not really. In the back end of the opportunity, we got to Australia, but that was June Covid and we didn't go for family and that couldn't go. But it's something I would love to have tried. You played in England, Charlie. Yeah, that's a foreign country for me, you know, but not Charlie's point, Rory, I think, about the sort of wider context of moving abroad and living in a different culture. I think we use that as a throwaway line, but I genuinely think actually just as a person having to deal with that, move abroad, settle, different culture, different football, obviously, but I'm talking about the stuff away from me. I do think that helps you grow as a person and then you bring experiences, that experience into a, address, I think that all plays into it. Yeah, no, I, I, I can't really add to that, I think it, yeah, it's, it must all be, it must all be beneficial. That experience have been out, been a different, been out of your comfort zone, I think, Trevor Chaloba was the, was the phrase that he used, having to adapt, having to kind of destroy more about yourself. When you don't, then go back to whether it's England or whether it's come back to the Premier League at some point in your career. Otherwise, question whether Jude Bellanham will, but the, all of that is, it rounds you, rounds you more as a person, it gives you that life experience, that must be an advantage, even just in terms of coping with pressure, you know, it's easy to kind of scoff at, at Cain at Bayern and say, well, it's the Bundeslead, a lot of Bayern always win the Bundeslead, but he's playing in Champions League semi-finals. They are some of the most pressurised games you will ever experience. Pulling him and Trent Anthony Gordon and Rasha before him are playing in classicos. That is not something, there is a pressure level of pressure there that unless you're regularly competing for titles in the Premier League, you probably can't match. I mean, I would say I don't want to shock anybody, but I think the classicos are a bit of game in the North London derby. I just think that's, it's probably true. So you're, you're exposing yourself to these new kind of experiences, and that must be good for you as a player. And, and also for me as well, who would have thought that Anthony Gordon and Trent Alexander Arnold who have been able to go to Spain and speaks for, well, for the Spanish. So again, their mindset and their mentality is, yeah, I want to go somewhere that I'm not in a comfort zone. I'm not comfortable just playing the Premier League against the same teams. They are trying to take their game to another level and different ideas. Listen, we all would never know that, until, until Trent and, um, Anthony Gordon and that, not, you know, the spoke Spanish. Of course, maybe friends or whatever, but, you know, that's something they'd been practicing and thinking about for a long time. That's fair play to them, big to go. Come out your comfort zone and do something different. I think they should be applauded for it. And because it's not easy, because a lot of foreign players come here, and we just expect them to adapt no problem. And it does take time for foreign players to come and, and, um, and get used to the Premier League and, and all of a sudden. So living away from home in a different environment, you know, for England boys going over there, and that this thing to sell, but again, the media's speculation away from that, maybe made the help as well. But they, you know, the England players, or in the current squad who have played, uh, who are playing abroad, have all got their slightly different stories, haven't they? The reason as far as I can see Kwanza going abroad is he wasn't getting the game time at Liverpool, so he made that choice where he wasn't at the top of his game. You could argue the same with, with Trevor Chalber, you know, the, you know, a, a, a pretty decent career at, uh, at Chelsea, but, you know, maybe never, never viewed as absolutely top draws of his made that choice where you can argue Jude Bellingham was always going to be a star at the, the shirt retired at that Birmingham city of, you know, whatever age and went to Dortmund and, you know, was always going to be a star. I'd, I'd slightly, I think it's a good debate and I'd understand Charlie's point about Harry Kane, but Harry Kane scored goals as, as Charlie said, carried Tottenham for years, but he could score, he could score anywhere. And, and Gordon, the, the phrase that John Hughes, I think it's really, really apt, you know, the Barcelona swagger. I mean, Anthony Gordon was good at Newcastle, but all of a sudden he's just gone there. And, you know, the thing is we mustn't get too carried away with this because it's only the early part of the season, isn't it? Don't I get carried away with it, Chris? No, I don't like getting carried away with it. You know, wait for, wait for a, a longer period to judge him, but he does, it does look, yeah, it does look to be something there where he's just at a whole new level of confidence. Yeah, I think, I think Bellingham's interesting because he, he could have come back to England after Dortmund and he didn't, they were off as there. He, he would not have been short of suitors. I think the, the other thing, there's two other things that it illustrates that are really interesting. One is, and you take Kane and Gordon fall into this, this pattern, particularly. If you're at one of those kind of upper middle class Premier League clubs and Spurs and Newcastle both fall into that trap, into that kind of category, they don't want to sell to the, to the big six. They don't want to sell to Liverpool or Man United or Man City if they can help it. So there is an appeal in finding someone outside of England who will take a player. And the second thing is that these English players are really in demand in a way they probably weren't 20 years ago. There is an, there is an understanding in Europe of belief that you need a little bit of Premier League dynamism and energy in your team. And you know, and this is the big change that the, there's no difference in technical ability. This is the Monday night club. Fall flavors are waiting for you at Whole Foods Market, cozy picks all through the store, like maple leaf cookies from 365 brand. Swing by the bakery for pumpkin cheesecake, here for a limited time, and pumpkin turmeric bread freshly baked every single day. Sip the season with 365 brand cinnamon spice coffee and pumpkin spice creamer while you still can spice up fall at Whole Foods Market. This was someone I respected above anyone else and the investigation led by students he's trying to silence. Listen on BBC.com, the BBC app or wherever you get your BBC podcasts. It's the Monday night club, a John Murray as go to go because there is a press conference being held by the the chequeer team ahead of the game at Wembley tomorrow night. But John, we talked Alex Scott, you mentioned Alex Scott briefly who's had to leave the camp and go back to Bournemouth, which is a great shame for him. But also there seems to be a sort of a little bit of discord brewing between Bournemouth and England with what's happened there with Alex Scott because it looks like he's going to be out for a while. So can you tell us a little bit more about that. Yeah, this was really the big talking points of the day surrounding England when we found out this morning that Esri Conza and Alex Scott had both withdrawn from this squad. So that's now eight players have withdrawn from this England squad. Esri Conza on his own in this window had had what Thomas too called a bit of discomfort, said he played with it, got worse, missed the game in Prague, given the green light for Croatia. But he got another knock on the cord in that match, what Thomas too called a light trauma. So he was out and he said it's nothing major with Esri Conza but for Alex Scott, this is a real blow for him, for Bournemouth, and you can understand why Bournemouth are upset about this. And Thomas Tuchel described it as a strange one. He said that he was involved in both training sessions before the match in Croatia when Alex Scott started for England for the first time. He made his debut on last Tuesday as a substitute. And he said that the medical people again had given Alex Scott all of the green lights for this match, but he felt some discomfort in his thigh during the match. He came off a substitute at 69th minute, said he could have played the 90 minutes. That's what Alex Scott said to Thomas Tuchel. And he said the scan that they've had didn't match with Alex Scott's feeling. And Thomas Tuchel maintained there was zero risk taken. He described it against a strange one off. And he said at 100%, I would not have taken any risk. And again later, a stress said, I can stress, there was no risk apparent to me. And again described it as a one off, but it's a real blow for the player. And it would appear that Alex Scott might not be able to play until December after this. So we'd miss the November international window as well as all of those matches for Bournemouth. Yeah, and Bournemouth playing in Europe this season as well. John, thank you. John will be commentating tomorrow night on England against Czechia at Wembley. Scotland also in action tomorrow night will come onto them in a bit. They're at home against Slovenia in the nation's league. So you'll be able to hear John in action describing the game tomorrow night. Chris, that is, it's a massive blow, isn't it, for Bournemouth and for Alex Scott. And in particular, I think because he really impressed, didn't he? He did. Yeah, I think it's a, it's a massive shame because of everything you've said, you know, the reasoning where he looked comfortable and really composed and people have, you know, started to, you know, even talk about is he, you know, is either guy to replace Declan Rice, which is, which is still a big call. But I just, I just feel for him at this moment in time. And, you know, there's always disagreements, isn't there with, with, with clubs and, and country, Thomas Tukkel, what said, as a zero percent risk, well, that couldn't have been accurate really because he ended up being injured. But it's, yeah, it's just really unfortunate. And it, it sounds, I'm not a medical expert, as you will know. But to be out until December, that's an absolute shocker. So he would have had the high of playing in the game. And then, you know, now he's, he's looking at that. Thomas Tukkel also said there, Rory, that they'd spoken to him a couple of times and he felt fine, but that, that's, that's an impossible position for him to be in because there's a rare opportunity there to start for England. Yeah, you're, you're going to give it a go, aren't you? Yeah. And then players in, even in normal circumstances aren't always the best judges of their own injuries because they're desperate to play. They, they certainly, certainly not all of them, but some of them will play through pain and play through it, played right to the edge, just they don't want to lose their play. So they, they just feel as though they, they can make it. And as you say in those circumstances where he's been given this chance to an extent, because of the other players pulling out to kind of stake his claim for spotting the England squad, he's, he's not probably the person who's best placed to judge how, how much danger there is, I guess. Yeah, but again, the medical, the medical team can't make that decision off the back of just what they think. They have to get your feelings from the player. And if I'm Alex Scott, I'm getting my first cat. I'm not walking off that pitch. You know, it's like you say he's worked so hard. There's a lot going on in terms of personal life, you know, different things. Get that opportunity place for England, you might ever only get one, unless it's going to happen, but you may only get one chance. So to come off would be a huge disappointment for him. And again, I get the grievance of ball with big wages and different things, but you know, if you're Alex Scott, that's, that's a big moment for him in his career. And ultimately, like, we're all talking about how could he play. But it's very difficult for him to say, hold his hand, I'm struggling here, because you want to keep playing, you want to affect it. And ultimately, like Thomas said, the, the symptoms I've not shown when the scan comes, which I've, I've seen before, I've seen it, but recently with some of my own players that if you, you don't think it's as bad, and you get a scan in all of the six month injury, like, whoa, that's, you know, some symptoms don't give you that job. It's very difficult, but good communication is needed now between balls in England. What's, Charlie, what do you like about him as a player in comparison, say to the other options that England having central midfield? So I'm thinking of, you know, well, obviously, Ellie Anderson and Declan Rice, but Kobe Manu and others who are competing for that position, well, what, what do you make of Alex Scott? Well, I think for him, I watched him up at Newcastle, not so long ago, and he basically run the middle of the pitch. You know, he wants to get on the ball, he wants to make things happen, he wants to get forward, he's got good energy, athleticism to get around the pitch. And you know, he, he, he probably next more goals than the other boys, which, which is probably something that he does, he scored more goals than the other lads. Not that he's a known midfielder, but I just like the way he's got personality and he's brave on the ball. And everything seems to go through him at ball-muth. And again, like you say, it's different types of players that you need to come back each other. And I just think that he's another jigsaw and that puzzle that, you know, they start to build a good relationship, Ellie Anderson also played with each other under 21. So that's something that Thomas will be looking at as well, knowing that yet, coming in, I can put him in, I haven't been sitting there, Anderson, no problem. They've played together the understanding that you're those games, and you're not trying to build a partnership that's, that's not there. So that's a real positive thing, I think, I think is clear, just going in a good way. He's more of a, he'll knit things together more than Declan Rice, but I don't think he has Rice's physicality. No, not not. That's where, that's where they, they differ. But it's good to, you know, it's, it's good for Thomas Tuckle to have, you know, a player with a bit of a, a different profile in there. Yeah. Well, I've said it's probably, it's also one, isn't it Chris, where, well, Declan Rice has missed this window, but, but were he to miss a period of time, or Ellie Anderson to miss a period of time, or they lose a couple of players in that area? You've got a plan there now that looks, you know, and again, you never want to get the bunting out, but you just, who just looked comfortable, didn't he? Yeah, and it's, it's that trust it's whether he can step up and, and, and, and, and relate that club form into, intuition, international form, and he did do. It's why it's such a shame what's happened. Yeah. So England check here tomorrow night of Wembley, full commentary here on Five Live and BBC Sounds, Scotland at home to Slovenia, and just going back to the conversation about players playing their club football abroad that we were discussing with England. So the current Scotland squad's got 11 players in it based outside of the UK, and actually, the only player on the pitch from the start of the game against North Macedonia on Saturday. Our sister Rory, our sister Rory, who plays in the SPL, so of the 22 who started the game, Rory, Scotland's win away. No, no, no, no, no, he knows, he knows his stuff. Chris knows me, and I didn't get this, but he's asking the question for a reason. So out of the 22 players who started the game, Scotland North Macedonia, only one of them plays their domestic football in the Scottish premiership. Only place for Macedonia. I'm correct. My offskithing. My offskithing. Correct. My offskithing. Correct. So we apologise, Chris. Yeah. So, so, so Charlie, on, on that one, so we're talking about the benefits of playing your football abroad and then bringing that to the international scene and whatever, and, and, you know, that, that clearly is a thing here too. But is it a concern as well, do you think that in that starting 11, there aren't players playing their, their, their football in Scotland? Yeah, I think, I think it's both. I think we're talking about England wanting close to put the highest level. I want my Scottish players to put the highest level possible. I want them testing themselves against the best experience in different leagues, different, different styles. But from a Scottish football perspective, you'd have to ask why there's so many young talented players, feel their development is better, better abroad, or are, are away from Scottish football the pathway. You know, are we developing them, are we playing them early enough? Are we retaining them long enough that the club benefits as well? So there's a lot of questions. And I think it's something that massive debate, talking points in Scotland at the moment. Yeah. We need a better, we need a better pathway for our younger players. But ultimately, they have to be good enough. But it's, there's not enough Scottish players playing. And again, we just sort of changed the dynamics of that criminal hall now coming in, changed the coaches at different age groups. And now it says job to try and knit that together and get young Scottish players playing, men's football as early as possible and giving them opportunity. I think there's a couple of things though, isn't there? There's no harm in it. You know, Scotland is a, is a small country compared to Italy and France and Germany. Well, in terms of population, there's no harm in having players at Sassuolo or Udenese or, or in the Premier League. Like that is a good thing for Scottish football. If, if, you know, Louis Ferguson or Lenin Miller, where, you know, whoever it might be, if they are playing top level football, that's a positive. I think the issue is not. Lenin Miller hasn't played in our football. And he's a, he's, he's a 20-year rolled. So that, you know, that's, I'm not saying that's, that's a problem, but, you know, there, there, there are all sorts of arguments. He may have been better off as easy to say. Yeah, he may have been better off staying at Motherwell, but go on. It's, it's a tricky one, because is it better to stay, I mean, Motherwell will brilliantly last season, but is it better to stay at Motherwell than it is to go and train at a higher level with the Danese even if you're not necessarily playing? There is a balance to be struck. The problem, the Strottland has in terms of the pathway, I think, is that you get a lot of players going down south, because the English clubs see them as, as relatively cheap. They can't get players in under the age of 18 from outside to British Island anymore, but it's a Brexit. So they, they, they need players in their academies, and they will kind of glom on to any sort of scintiller of talent they can find, whether it's North of the border in Wales, Northern Ireland, in, I think in the Republic, and, and obviously in England. And those players aren't necessarily getting the chance to kind of get into first team football. The, the Scottish Premiership should be full, to be honest, of 18 in 19 years old. There isn't, it, that it should be a development lead in that sense in the nicest possible sense. But the problem is that the English clubs, like the Italian teams with players like Len and Miller, can pay them so much more money. So why would you stay at Motherwell if you are, yeah, you might not play at a Danese, but you probably sought your family out for three generations, that is a powerful, why is it, why is it not, why is it a top club's not by any young talent there? Well, I mean, but, but that's, that's fascinating. And, and the bottom line is, if you look at, if you look at a lot of the players within the, within the Scottish squad, and over the years, a lot of high profile players are ones who were not deemed good enough, for Celtic or Rangers, so really were, were forced out to try another pathway. And, you know, players like, there was the big debate about John McGinn, should have gone to Celtic, Celtic, didn't want to pay the money, so he ended up at Hastinville again and doke slightly, slightly different sort of his pathway. Andy Robertson, for heaven's sake, people forget, he was at Celtic. Aaron Hickey, you know, as a young player was at Celtic and, and found a different pathway. Louis Ferguson was doing brilliantly at Aberdeen. Celtic or Rangers didn't want to sign him. You look at Billy Gilmore slightly differently. He was, he was at Rangers and decided to go down the different route. The really interesting one in all this is Robbie Yew. Yeah, Robbie. Yeah, that, now, so he was, he was a, you know, young player at Rangers and had an opportunity to some extent, but actually thought, you know what, I'm going to do something different here. I'm going to, I'm going to go to Belgium. They offered him a new contract, turned it down and now he's playing what he's playing for Seville. Yeah. And, and that, that sort of whole, whole route and the fact that he felt, sorry, Charlie, the fact that he felt that that was a better pathway, fair play to him. Kudos for him for actually doing that, rather than hanging around for, sort of, sparse minutes at Rangers. I had doubts, actually, when I was thinking about the opportunity to say no, be young and another ticket. But again, that's the decision you make coming at Rangers Academy. It's, you know, again, I'm a family, young Scottish player coming now. Why would you want to stay in Scotland when you come to England getting these unbelievable facilities, you know, putting against the top players in English academies? Like you say, and I'm sure they're going to get rewarded as well. And it's not like that. But I don't agree, you know, you're talking about going down and playing Academy football. Yeah, but again, if what I'm saying is that at the moment, there's no pathway in Scotland to come and play. So they're going to have to come to England again. Like you say, the trans border between England and Scotland is cheap to bring these Scottish players over. Because of the EU stuff and the Brexit, and there's so many young Scottish talents in England. Because, yeah, I don't see there's a pathway in Scotland. I don't think the clubs are doing nothing. But, right, not in all cases, but MacPake has started to get a game at, you know, he's, he's playing for hearts, I think, because James Wilson strangely went down to Tottenham Hotspur, what on earth? He was, he was, he was never going to bring it to him, but James Wilson. We're trying to get rid of him. But he needs to, you know, you could have bought James Wilson a year for a million pounds. But he went down, he went down to Tottenham, didn't he? And now he's back and, and, and, and, and he's an orphan manager. Because a different manager fancied him. Derek didn't fancy him, he's the left, went to Tottenham, come off the back, new manager comes in. And all of a sudden, they're keeping him now, they're saying, well, should go to be in the Scotland squad. But that's just how things change and football perception and, and opinions on it. You know, Derek was, was, was, was trying to get rid of him. Charlie, is that, is that the impression? Is that because Scottish football is suspicious of you? No, I just think it's, it's, it's very difficult to get young persons to take, they have to be good enough. They have to give them an opportunity to be good enough, as well. You know, and again, James McPake, we're talking about, went to St Johnson, had rejection, got released, but kept fighting away, fighting away. And then all of a sudden he's coming to the hearts team, did really well, got his opportunity. And now all of a sudden, you know, he's in their under Scotland, the team, but he's now got to try and kick on, he's now got to go and put another level. And because people see him in their under Scotland squads, is that, you know, the expectation gets higher. But for him, Wilson, it's very difficult to get involved in front of Shanklin, Bragg, people like that. Charlie, just, just before we move it on, I mean, that's obviously the big picture, the, the domestic game in Scotland, the first three games under Pockagnoly, what, what have you made of, of the international team of Scotland? And first, 45 was, was difficult, second half we improved, the game was different against Switzerland, really, at the red card, killed the whole game and, and I was there to watch it. And a good win against Macedonia, where you'd expect us to win. But, you know, there's another tough game and tomorrow night, and, and again, like you say, we have to win that football match. And, and we know in football, we're all clamber for something different, but results again, we'll, we'll, we'll get a different style, we'll, we'll look to try and press a little bit higher. But again, if you don't win football matches, it becomes a problem and it, and it becomes more difficult. Not how too much about, but how he works, just reading the media, that obviously the, the lads are liking him, but, again, ultimately, it takes time to, to try and implement what you're looking to do. Chris Sutton, Rory Smith and Charlie Adam with us this evening, 839 days since beginning his managerial career in the seventh tier with Mackelsfield. Robbie Savage is an EFL manager for the first time having taken over at League 1, Peterborough. I'm going to read you this quote from club director Ian Crawford. We could have taken the safe option. I've no doubt that the other candidates would have got us up the table. We'd have been fine. I feel with most of them, there was probably a ceiling with Robbie, we feel there is no ceiling. Robbie Savage joins us on the Monday night club. How about that, Robbie, for a bit of backing? Must be feeling like a million dollars when you hear that. Yeah, I guys, it's nice. Yeah, it's nice, but I never to blame going to be just done results, like all managers. We're in 20th position, the previous two years, 18th and 18th. They've had some brilliant managers at this football club, but they want to go down a different route in terms of that attacking style of football. Do you know what? I've earned the right. I've done it the hard way through non-league. Listen, lots of managers who have played in the Premier League on a level go straight into league football without doing the hard yards. I'm not one. So for the skeptics, I've done it the right way. I've made loads of mistakes. I will continue to make loads of mistakes. But you know, you should be saying that, Rob. Yeah, it's a bad pace, Robbie. No, I am. No, I will cause one of the main mistakes. We're all going to make mistakes. We all make mistakes now in broadcasting. You know, you're never the finished article. We keep asking questions. You keep wanting to learn. But, hopefully, I'll get a lot of things right. But again, you know, I hear it from people. Maybe how has he got that job? Well, inevitably, I've not gone straight into the league. I've earned the right to get into the league by doing it at step four, at step three, at step two, you know, at step one. Now I've got a chance to do it at the league. What about this job, Robbie? Why this one? And obviously you'll have had a couple of sessions with the team. You know, what would you make of them? What was possible? Well, the DNA of Peter Brie and I is attacking football. The posh winner attack, they won a play a certain way. They've had a possession based side over recent years. And they're 23rd in the league. The previous year, they were 18th. They've had experienced managers who haven't had the success that they would have wanted. So again, when you look at the dynamic of the squad, look at the four, two, three, one. Look at the way they want to play. I think a group of young players where I can improve, I can develop. You know, I understand millennials, Charlie, my boys are ready. You know, my forest green squad was, you know, very young. Brought the average age of the team now by about four years, decreased the wage budget. So now I'm in a club where they stagnated. They've gone a different way. Now they want to get back to the Peter Brie United, which their fans know. And the fact I've just had a fans forum now sold out within five minutes, 200 people. And they just want to see an attacking style of football with this young team where they can get on my edge of the seats. And if we if we win games, unbelievable, but if you lose, there's a way to lose at this football club, which 23rd in the league, they could have had an experienced manager. But I see the same managers again, being said about the same jobs, you know, I think it's a breath of fresh air that they give a manager who's earned the right, by the way, a non-leg level to have an opportunity. I've never gone straight into the league. Never, you know, I could have waited. I could have gone down the roof. of going into a league club in terms of a coach and then with no manager experience, but I haven't, I've got manager experience and now we're going to be able to unite. Good question, Robert from the Charvard here. You've always backed yourself and we can hear that and you're confident, you know, you're buzzing for this opportunity. But what have you discovered about management that's genuinely made you question yourself in terms of this shot period that you've had as being a manager? It's a lonely place, Charlie. You've experienced it. It's a lonely lonely place and I'm self deprecating. I've learned that you're only as good as your recruitment in your players. We can talk about formations, we can talk about anything you want, you know, you've got to try and get the fan base on board, we know that. But you're only as good as your players. It's a different game from when we played everything about it's different, you know, you just, what do you mean, Robert? So the sport, sign side, managing players, loads of minutes, you know, there's so many facets and now the comments you pick in the team in terms of, you know, where players are at, everything, the different, different areas of a club, you know, I've been very, very fortunate. In my time at Maccalaureate Forest Green and Peter Brady and I had, I've got three owners who are unbelievable, unbelievable, great relationship with Dale Vince, what a guy, transparent, honest and that is exactly the same. So again, Chris, we were on six or six last night, we heard some of the questions, you know, I've been very fortunate here that I'll be able to follow my own sword in terms of the team, the way we play and everything. So again, the game's changed, Chris, we all know it. We all know that, you know, the biggest thing that's changed is when we played, there was no social media. That's the biggest thing. It's, it's, it's got to a stage now where it becomes so toxic that, you know, for a time, Chris, I would come off it. But you embrace it, Robbie, as well though, don't you? You embrace it. But I don't, I, I just post that way, baby, I'd rather engage because we all know in the media, you can create a narrative. So for instance, when I've got a link with a piece of a job paper, you know, a job, there was a lot of criticism. The easiest thing to do is to create the narrative of it. That person's not wanted there and good rhythms from the previous club. But possibly the hardest thing to do is to tell you what, wow, look how many tweets and texts you've got from people being positive, but nobody wants to read that. You know, and after the game, people just want to be negative. And the biggest thing I've got is perception. I've probably people didn't want me because the perception of me as a player, but I never to be Chris, you know me better than most now. You know, the way my teams play, I'm so excited. This group is under achieving the young, the dynamic. I've had two days of training. It's going to, I'm going to implement my ideas, but what an opportunity we've got. And inevitably in football, we all know we're going to be just on results, but I'm a legal manager. And it's, it's a brilliant football club with brilliant people, enthusiastic, passionate people, which I am and passionate fans. And what a chance I've got. Can I ask you, Rob? You don't have to answer if you don't want, you normally don't answer. But what was the first thing you said to the players? The first thing I said was, obviously, I didn't have to introduce myself because they knew I was. I said, so what I did Chris yesterday was I got them to have a sheet of paper because we're such a young group, and we've all been in change rooms where there's some huge characters, there's some people who require it. Some people don't want to speak up because we're such a young group. They might, I've asked them a question. Why do you think you're in the situation both as an individual and as a collective? So I've given a piece of paper each and made it anonymous, and they all wrote down why they think they are and the club are in this position in the team. And it was amazing the feedback I got because people were honest because when you got a large group of youngsters and we are, I think with the second youngest team in the NFL, they don't want to speak up and they might have something off their chest, but by doing it anonymously, I collected them all together yesterday. There were four key points which I read out to the group today. That's what I said. Why are you in the situation? Because the quality, the talent in this room shouldn't be 23rd in the league. And in fact, this group now need a manager. They need somebody who can manage them. I'm not a great coach. I don't want to be a great coach. I've got great coaches around me. I've got people who better than their jobs than me in terms of analysis, sports, science, coaches, but I'm a good manager. And time will tell if I'm going to be a very good one. I actually got two players. I've actually worked with Vin and Sara and Kyle Johnson. So, you know, two good boys and, you know, stages a little bit, definitely got more experience, but Vin is the one with lightning pace. He could put off a side, plays a nine, terrific kids. You know, we actually just showed them in the summer to Peter Brown and get an opportunity for him. So, look after him because he is a good boy and living away from home for the first time. So, it'll be interesting to see how he does. And, you know, I've been speaking to quite a regular last few weeks and he's been enjoying it, but obviously coming back from an injury, which is which is no great, but I think Peter Brad, when that the deal happened, I felt that Peter was the right hub for him to progress as a footballer and, you know, just good luck with him, because he's a top kid. He was scored at the year. Was he twice in a row, Charles? Yeah. Yeah, it's close goals. He's the lightning quick, but just, let's say, need to be a bit of an arm around him. But again, Charlie, I understand. I understand young players because my son Charlie moved away for the first time to Reddit. The emotion involved in that being where if you're family, you'll get lonely, you'll get homesick. So, again, because we got such a young group, because of Charlie, I understand the narrative, I understand the situation young players are in. So, again, I can relate to them, you know, I'm a modern-day manager with a great work ethic and an emotional guy, but what I do, they've got a manager who would give them everything, protect them, protect my staff, I'm all for them. And listen, I know for a fact that on the sideline, you know, I'll take everything for my team and my staff, because that's the kind of person I am. Robby, you mentioned that it can be lonely, you mentioned the kind of the stuff you have to deal with on social media, the criticism, the results kind of as soon as they turn, everyone turns on you. And you say you've done it the hard way, which you have. Why? You had a really successful playing career, you had a really good career dealing with Chris on the radio, which is, I mean, that is enough for anybody to be honest, that is, you know, you've been through it, you've had to work with Chris. Why? Why do it the hard way? Because I've always done the hard way. And I got told that Manchester United wasn't good enough class in '92, then went to play in 346 Premier League games. I was told on the radio, you know, I wasn't good enough. Got more Tony Goals than all of you put together. As a manager, you know, as a manager, I told as a sport director, as a macro field, well, he picks the team. I put my money where my office broke all records in that league, went to forest green, give an owner a club back. That's what he wanted. That was the remit. Reduced the wage budget, but young players. And now, can I manage in the league? People say I can. People say, you know, I might fail, but I tell you what, I want to prove people wrong. I've always done it. I've got my fighter, you know, but what an opportunity. I know how difficult it is to get a job. And listen, some ex-players, some current players might be saying, how in earth did he get that job? Well, the data doesn't lie now. There's a data-driven, you know, modern world where players are bought on data, managers get jobs on data. And our data at forest green and macro field was one of the highest in the top five divisions. The extra differential was one of the highest, I think, with the four last year at forest green. Glory loves that. Yeah, talking about land. So, first league game, Rob is, is a waiter. I mean, it's a cracker, isn't it? It's a waiter Leicester on Saturday, three o'clock, so five live will obviously have a reporter there. Peter Rafan, David's got in touch, sent us an email into the Monday night club and says, "Dear MNC, if Robbie wants to endear himself to the posh crowd, he has to make sure he pronounces NEN as in the local river correctly. It should rhyme with Ben and not rhyme with Ben, so it's NEN not mean. Good luck, Rob. I've called that name, you know. Well, there you go. Do you know how it spelt? Um, yeah, the NEN, yeah. The NEN, the NEN. Yeah, but what a game, but what a game, what a game? What a game for my players. What a game for my players who go and break things. Do you know what? I hear managers saying, how do you stop the opposition? How good are the opposition? Well, I'm going to be a manager who says, what about us? What can we do? How can we win? Let's go out and try and win the game. You know, my philosophy will be, if it's one one, let's go and try and win the game. You know, because at that point of the game, the way I want to play, if it's one one, then you go through it, you lose it on the counter. You're not losing a point at that stage. Let's talk about us. Let's be us. Let's go and try and win games and do it the right way. And if it doesn't work out like that, do you know what? You know, I'll still be the best voice on six or six. Have you enjoyed a bacon sandwich, Rob, since you've left Forest Green? You said that when yesterday. You bought it now. You said yesterday. Robby, Robby's job is to try and stop the opposition. I've got to try and stop Robby talking because we've come to the end of the Monday night club. Robby, good luck with it. You know, I really hope it goes well for you and Peter Brie, you know, I think. Thank you very much for coming on the show. Chris, thank you, Charlie. Thank you very much indeed. See you soon. And Rory, - Thank you. - Thank you. As always, probably some more Manchester City articles to write before we get back into the. That's the spread, so. Premier League action at the weekend. Must mention that as well, actually. 4.30 kick off on Sunday at Amfield. It's a five-live commentary that is Liverpool against Manchester City. That is it for the Monday nightclub. On the next episode, Kelly Summers will have reaction from England against Czechia. I'm Steve Bratnell. A system manager of Sunday League Power Houses, the Royal Orchestra. And I'm back in changing room at Royal Oak for a new season of Games Gone. The podcast that takes you back to the grassroots of the game. We're me, colleague Paul Samson, and Bob the bookmate. And this season, we're aiming for promotion to division D of the Sheffield Sunday Imperial League. Games Gone, the Steve Bratnell podcast. Listen on BBC Sounds. This is the story of an Islamic boarding school in Indonesia with a dark secret. Of the school's head teacher. Yes, this is to the media. I'll be destroyed. Listen on BBC.com, the BBC app, or wherever you get your BBC podcast.