MIT Longevity Expert: Do These 3 Things Now to Stay Young, Live Longer, & Keep Your Freedom

Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. You and your loved ones are probably going to live a lot longer than you think. But right now, there's so much noise about longevity, biohacking, anti-aging, reversing this, optimizing that, but can we be honest with each other? Would you want to live to 100 if you are in horrible health? If it's painful to just get through the day, of course not. That's why today's conversation with an extraordinary expert from MIT, it's not about adding more years to your life. It's about adding more life to your years. We're going to talk today about whether your life as you age stays big and exciting and fulfilling and meaningful, or your life starts to shrink. We're also going to talk about what to do when you have people in your life, your parents, grandparents, loved ones, and you see their quality of life getting worse. Our extraordinary expert is Dr. Joseph Coughlin. He's the director of the MIT Age Lab, where they study what longer lives look like. And he is here in our Boston studios today to give you the simple shifts and all of this fascinating research that's going to do so much for you and your family. First of all, it's going to protect your freedom and your independence as you age, because Dr. Coughlin says, based on the research, the choices you're making right now, yes, you in your 20s, in your 50s, 60s, they shape what the rest of your life is going to feel like. Dr. Coughlin also says there are three forces that quietly wear you down and chip away at your independence. And he will share what you can do to make sure that they don't. He's also got amazing research-backed advice for caregivers. I'm talking children of aging parents and grandparents. And the things that you really need to hear that are going to work very specifically for you and your family, Dr. Coughlin is going to give you specific ways in particular that Dr. Coughlin wants you to think about caregiving. He's going to give you specific ways to approach the conversation with your family members that will reshape how you look at aging. Dr. Coughlin also has three questions that you must ask yourself that will fundamentally change how you see and design your future. This is a conversation I really want you to share with your siblings, with your parents, with your grandparents, with your friends. I cannot wait for you to experience it and meet Dr. Coughlin. I am thrilled about our conversation today. It's always such an honor to be together and to spend this time with you. And if you're a new listener, or you're here because somebody shared this with you, this is one of those episodes that you will be sharing with people in your family. It's that important. I just want to take a moment and welcome you personally to the Mel Robbins Podcast family. Today, you and I are learning how to stay strong, sharp, and independent for a hundred years with the number one longevity expert, Dr. Joseph Coughlin, who founded and leads the Massachusetts Institute of Technology Age Lab, where he and his extraordinary team of researchers study how longer lives are transforming the way people work, retire, plan, and live. And he's here to tell you, based on the research, what it takes to prepare for a hundred good, juicy, awesome years, because you deserve that. Dr. Coughlin is a researcher, a professor in MIT's Department of Urban Studies and Planning, and an advisor to major corporations and institutions around the world. He has advised the world, economic forum, and he has also served on the advisory committees for the U.S. government and multiple federal agencies and sitting presidents. The Wall Street Journal named him one of America's 12 pioneers inventing the future of retirement and aging. And if you thought that was enough, Dr. Coughlin has also authored over 250 academic publications on aging, longevity, and demographic change, and the bestselling book, The Longevity Economy. So please help me welcome Dr. Joseph Coughlin to the Mel Robbins Podcast. It's great to be here, Mel. Thanks for having me. I am so thrilled that you took time out of your busy lab over at MIT to come here today, and I am excited about your research. I would love to have you begin by speaking directly to the person who's listening or watching right now, and tell me, what could be different about my life if I take everything to heart that you're about to share and I apply it to my own life, and I really apply it to the people in my life that are getting older. What could be different? The big difference is that if you're prepared, if you can envision what you think that future is going to be, and please, it's not going to be all about beach walks and pickleball and maybe even grandchildren. Those will be good punctuated moments. But hopefully the things that we're doing with my team at the MIT Age Lab and the conversation that we'll have is about being prepared for the little moments, the things that make you smile, the ability to stay in the home that you love and want to be with, the ability to provide care. It's about building capacity to live your best life. I know this is going to be one of those conversations where if you are older, you're going to feel seen. If you are in a caregiving role, you're going to feel supported and you're going to be given very specific things that you can do. And you have a real gift in terms of the way that you teach, and you have a way of making this topic that's hard to talk about and understand in some ways easier and more fun to think about. But you do it in a way that's very, very practical. And so I think one of the things that people are going to get out of this conversation is a whole new way to think about the people that they love and to think about the role that you have to play in your own life and aging and in supporting others as they do. And Mel, I want everyone to give themselves a break. And what I mean by that, is that not being prepared for old age is not an indictment. It's not like, oh my God, I didn't do my plan. Old age is quite new in the context that we're living, how long we're living, the expectations, multiple generations alive at the same time. If you're caring for a loved one today, if you're aging or you're planning to age, this is an entirely new world without a map. So Dr. Coughlin, especially given the work that you do at the MIT Age Lab, how do you want us to think, about age? I want you to think about aging as an amazing gift of time. So I want you to imagine zero, birth, to 21 years old. Let's just make it easy for a lot of people, drinking age. From zero to 21 is about 8,000 days. You know, be generous with the math, but it's about 8,000 days. From 21 to midlife crisis, classically 46, 47 years old, 8,000 days. And from 46 to 47 to that Newtonian law of physics of retirement, 65 is 8,000 days. But most people don't know that the fastest growing part of the population worldwide, by the way, is 85 plus. And 65 to 85 and change is 8,000 days. So if I take zero to 21, I'll just call it gently, push it off to the side, call it childhood, or if you're a parent, expensive, you cross, you know, off to the side. All of a sudden, retirement is not this short period of trip with the grandchildren to Disney. It's one third of your adult life. It's a full 8,000 days. I love that 8,000 day framework, because when you think about your own life, especially looking backwards, you can see whether you're going zero to 21 or 21 to 46 or 46 to 65 or 65, you know, to 80, whatever. There are so many different versions of you in each one of those 8,000 day segments of your life. And we do, especially as you get older, just kind of think, oh, well, now you're just in that bracket. And I think it's very hopeful and exciting to recognize that whether you are in the zero to 21 or 21 to 45 or 45 to 65 or 65 to 80 or 80 and up, that you have all of these different slices of life and future versions of yourself that you are going to get to experience. And a lot of what we're going to learn today from you will fundamentally shift your, your mind and perspective about those future versions of you that will experience a decline in capacity potentially as you age. And that notion of future you, Mel, what you and I will be able to do is to put questions in people's minds to help them navigate basically an entirely unknown land. There's really no map for that older age other than, you know, did you save enough money and are you going to take a cruise ship? There's, life is so hard. Life is more complicated than that overall. And those questions will start conversations. You say there are three questions every one of us needs to ask ourselves when it comes to how we think about aging. The three questions, not necessarily in this order. The first one is, how are you going to get an ice cream cone? Sounds really silly, but it's got a number of dimensions to it. When we plan for older age, we tend to think about what do we want to do in older age? Well, I'm going to travel, spend time with family. There's so much to do around the house. I'm going to travel. I'm going to travel. I'm going to travel. I'm going never get bored. Mel, do you remember COVID? We found something out about COVID. Except for the travel part, we found out that, A, all those hobbies you thought that were going to keep you busy and painting the spare bedroom three times was going to keep you busy for a lifetime got boring real fast. And secondly, we found that our significant other got tired of seeing us significantly 24-7. And so the first question is, how are you going to get a nice cream cone? Do you know the little things that make you smile? Not that we're going to take the kids to Disney, not that, you know, we're going to maybe, if you're one of those folks, to downsize those big monumental moments. Longer life or life at any stage is about the little moments. And so do you know the little things that make you smile? So for me, I want you to imagine it's a hot summer night. I want a soft serve. I want a spiral. I want a chocolate and vanilla. The other side of that question is not do you know the little things that make you smile, but do you have access to them? Seventy percent of Americans over the age of 50 live where if you don't drive, you don't get out. And an ice cream cone is one of those things on a hot summer night. You want it to spur the moment. You don't book a ride. You don't bother an adult daughter. You may not call up a neighbor. You just want it. The peepers are out. It's a hot summer night. You want it now. So do you know how you're going to get an ice cream cone? Second thing, what are you going to do on any given Tuesday at 1030? Sounds really crazy, right? But when we think about retirement planning, old age planning, we think about the big things that we're going to do. I've got so much I'm going to do. But, you know, believe it or not, research, imagine somebody got money for this, did research and found out that Tuesday apparently is the most boring day of the year. Look, most of us don't want to have breakfast with anyone. Just give me my coffee and leave me alone. The bottom line is, is that by 1030 in the morning, all of a sudden, you now need to structure your life, whether it was work, family, children. Frankly, if you're no longer a caregiver, you had structure. You had things to do. Now at 1030 on Tuesday, the average couple over age 65 watches upwards of four hours a day. That's a lot of work. That's a four to five hours of TV per day. Oh, wow. So that notion that we're all going to be cruising and doing all this fun stuff, again, not totally incorrect, but there's a lot of Tuesdays out there. Third question, if you will, who's going to change your light bulbs? Sounds again, really silly, but I want you to start making a list. And I want, I want that person who's listening to me right now, start making a list of all the things that you take for granted that you do every day, for yourself, for your spouse, your partner, or for a loved one, taking out the trash, making a meal, changing a light bulb. And look, as a guy, I do have to confess that I do want to climb the ladder and change the light bulb. I am likely to fall and break my hip because my wife's going to be at the base of the ladder saying, you're going to fall and break your hip. And that will be the thing that takes me down. But here's the thing I want you to think about, because when things break, you need redundancy. So that person that's going to change your light bulbs, not just whether you have the money to do that. In fact, that in many ways, that's the easy part. Do you have someone that you trust? Someone that would go into your mother's home? She's 85 years old, cognitively not as sharp as she used to be. You can write the check perhaps. Do you have somebody you trust to go in there by themselves? Is somebody that your mother's going to accept? Do you have somebody who's going to check on? If you don't call home or call a friend, who's going to call back to make sure everything's okay? I'll throw one other in there and we can talk about this. Who are you going to have? Who are you going to have lunch with? And that is the social question. That is the question about how big is your social, we'll make it geeky, social network. Frankly, how many friends do you have? And how well those friends come together is frankly, in many ways, a bigger predictor of how well you'll age. Some really great research done by Joanne Holt-Lonstad suggests that do you know that being lonely or social isolation has the physical health impact of smoking 11 to 15 cigarettes per day? So it's not about, oh, gee, you're lonely. It's emotional. Yeah, it's all that, but it's also about hypertension, depression, and everything else. How many friends do you need? Generally speaking, we only have maybe one, two, and if you're really wealthy, and I mean wealthy in the social sense, three friends. And these are the folks that have your back. When something happens wrong at two in the morning, when a loved one is critically ill, they're the ones who support you overall. And then I added friends under development. Because as I remember a woman I was interviewing in Chicago said to me only a few years ago, I was asking her about her social connection, and she leans over, and I think she was 82. She leans over and she says to me, son, which if you look like this, being called son is a pretty cool thing. She goes, son, at my age, there's a natural attrition to friendship. You don't think about that. But over time, and it's not just the existential, you lose friends due to death or disease, but they move on. They move away. And many people are going to hate me for saying this, but grandchildren actually hurt your friendships. Because what you used to do on a Friday night to go out to have dinner or a movie is like, oh no, I'm going to babysit her. I can't wait to see baby Joey or whatever it might be. Those are great things. But you need to start thinking of your friendships as a portfolio. Indeed, I like to call it a social portfolio. We worry, about our wealth portfolio, but think about your social portfolio. How robust, how rich is it overall? I want to stay on that grandkids really impact your friendships as you get older as an adult. Because one of the things that I've noticed just as my own parents are getting older, my mom is in her late seventies, my dad is in his early eighties, is I have seen the friendship attrition that you're talking about. And I've seen how they used to have this big group of people that they hung out with. And I've seen how they used to have this big group of people that they hung out with with. And as they've gotten older and certainly as people have died or people have moved away or people have stopped making the long drive down to Florida for the month in a cold winter month, their friend group has started to completely evaporate. What was once 20 couples they hung out with, it's now two. And I also hear what you're saying about how when your family starts to grow, which is a wonderful thing, whether it's with, you know, your family, whether it's with son-in-laws, daughter-in-laws, or it is with kids, or it is grandkids. It's a wonderful thing, but you tend to then focus in on prioritizing family, which is very important. And you forget about the importance of the social network that's your age that you also still need. So really this older age is about time and structure and connection more than anything else. Well, that brings me to the work that you're doing at the MIT Age Lab. That is so revolutionary and profound because you have created a way for us to go there and to not just try to imagine what it's going to be like, but to truly experience the impact of aging. I would love to hear you just explain to the person listening or watching right now, what is the work that you're doing at MIT? And you brought along what looks like an astronaut suit complete with a helmet that I am going to call the astronaut aging suit that you put people in and it simulates what it can feel like to be the future you who is 90 years old trying to go through your day-to-day life. And it really just hits you right in the gut. And I think that kind of frames up best what the MIT Age Lab is. Look, I have the privilege of being here to speak with you. I'm going to start with you. But the Age Lab is made up of 30 really gifted researchers and students that do the work. I get to talk about it. And look, while we are attentive to nutrition and exercise and things like that, what we really look at is where does design, technology, and human behavior come together to rethink where you're going to live? What is the future design of communities? What we're on the physical side of doing. And so the lab looks at things such as what is the future of transportation? How do we redesign our communities? Not to be just friendly for aging, but to be age-ready. Caregiving. How do we actually provide care to loved ones? And how do we receive care? And much of what we will be speaking about, longevity planning. Not just plan for our financial security. How do we plan for a longer, better life overall? And then probably the other main area that we like to work on is the multi-generation workplace. Do you remember when the workplace was there are younger workers and there are older workers? Imagine this. We now have not one, two, three, four, or five. We have upwards of six generations in the workplace, shall we say, generational kinetics of expectation, how we work, what we do, and the like in the workplace. So longer life longevity changes everything. And longer and better. And they also happen to have a profound impact on the systems in your mindset. Yes. That have you not be able to predict what it's going to be like for you as you age, and to also have you not understand what the people that you love are going through right now as they are aging. And you have this astronaut aging suit. Agnes. Agnes. And what does Agnes stand for? Agnes. We love acronyms at MIT. So Agnes stands for the age, gain, Now, empathy system. Dr. Coughlin's brought his team, the suit is hanging outside, and I'm going to try it on, and I will narrate step by step by step what's happening. I will do my best to explain what I am feeling in real time as I am experiencing the MIT Age Lab simulation of the way that aging can compromise your capacity to move, to pick things up, to see, to do the simple things day to day. And I am really excited because I think this is going to have a profound impact on me and you, whether you're listening or watching. And it's aging, and it's more about the health conditions that kind of correlate with aging quite often. So diabetes, arthritis, diminished vision function. But Mel, one of the things I think you're going to experience, as do my students and the companies we work with, is the aha moment. Yeah. Which is, yeah, we interview older adults. We watch them in the wild. We're kind of creepy. We watch you in the house, the car, the store, home, whatever it might be. But it's when you wear the suit that you kind of like get it. It's like, why is this more difficult than it should be? Because as a designer, as an engineer, you say, that's not acceptable. I can change the material. I can change the design. I can make it better. So just so you know, Mel, and for all the listeners, you may hear some like tearing and clinking and clanging. It's going to be Velcro. It's going to be Velcro weights and some belts. So we promise we'll be gentle, Mel. But that's the sound of the suit going on. That's the sound of the suit going on. All right. So Dr. Coughlin, we're going to walk outside the studio where the age suit is. This is the first time we've ever filmed and recorded a part of the podcast outside of this studio. Oh, wow. So I'm super excited to experience this with you. Very cool. All right. Let's go do this. All right. I see this suit. It almost looks like I'm going to go into a spaceship. Yeah, it looks like, well, frankly, if you think about it, aging is an extreme environment. It's not for wimps. Uh-oh. We're all forced into it. Okay. So I'm just going to put that on? No, you're going to wait. Now, my colleague, Lauren Serino, here's going to help you show us. How are you? Well, you guys have like actual, she's wearing a jacket, if you're listening to this, that has the lab emblazoned on it. That's great. Okay. So here we go. So I'm going to start by having you take off your shoes. Okay. Is the first test that I have to balance while I do this? Okay. I'm sitting down on the chair to take my shoes off, and now I'm regretting the fans that I wear stylish jeans that have no stretch in them. It'd be a lot harder if you were wearing a skirt, so this works. Okay. Here we go. I'm already having trouble, and I don't have the suit on. I'm just getting my shoes off here. Okay. All right. Here we go. So I'm putting on a weighted vest. Yeah. And now this is not necessarily because you're going to be gaining weight, but you're going to be losing muscle mass. Oh. So I have to put on a weighted vest because when you lose muscle mass, you're starting. Everything is starting to feel a little heavier, a little more difficult to move. So you may maintain certain weight, but it doesn't mean you have a certain muscle mass, which gives you that strength. Wow. Wait. So hold on. I just want to make sure I understand this. So if you're looking at somebody in your life that's getting older, and they haven't put on a lot of weight, they may still just feel like their existing weight feels heavier? Exactly. And if they've lost muscle mass, that means things that were once lighter or just getting up out of the chair as you did becomes just a little bit more difficult. I never would have thought about that. So we take a lot of it for granted because it doesn't look like it's changed, but it has. Well, when you think about. Like I'm just thinking about, for example, like my grandma and her not changing her body shape at all, but it seemed to get harder and harder, and that's due to loss of muscle mass. Loss of muscle, coordination, and we're going to make it a little bit worse as we go along. Oh, my gosh. Okay. Thank you for bending down because these pants do not have stretch in them. This was really. That was really dumb of me. Okay. All right. So I'm putting on one leg of. This is the easy part, I think. I need to hold on to your shoulder. This is the jumpsuit. Okay. My pants literally are not. Okay. So I'm getting on the jumpsuit, everybody. Yeah. Yeah. Don't fall over because that will. Kind of your typical, I think, auto mechanic think. If you're a farmer wearing your big Carhartt kind of zip-up cold weather thing. So I've got on my. Okay. I'm going to zip this up. Okay. And I've got the vest on underneath. Yep. Now we're going to start getting interesting. So, Lauren, what are we putting on now? We are putting on this harness. It's going to go right around your waist here, and it's going to connect to some of the other components that we have. So what you're looking at is a harness with a number of bungee cords. Okay. And the bungee cords are not to make you more flexible. Actually, each one is a certain level of reducing your gait, that is, your walk. Restricting how I walk? Yeah. So suddenly, the span that you're going to be able to walk is going to be a little bit more resistant or less. It's not that you're not going to be able to fight it, but it's going to start to wear you out. Well, the vest is already wearing me out. I mean, I'm standing here with this kind of heaviness because I have this vest on, and I'm just kind of dumbstruck by the fact that you may look at somebody who you love who's getting older, and you may see it in their face. Right. But you don't understand that there's this heaviness in their body. See, the way we like to think about it is that what we're adding to you is a certain amount of friction of an environment, you know, interaction with everything from chairs to kitchen, whatever it is, but friction, fatigue, and then often what you'll see in their face is frustration because you remember what it was like to be easy. Why am I fighting with this or having difficulty moving? Because you remember what it was like to be seamless and smooth. Yes. And now it's suddenly getting a little slower, a little bit more difficult, and frankly, a little bit more frustrating. So, you said three Fs there. Yep. The friction. Yep. The fatigue and the frustration. Yes. And then I can imagine there's a fourth. Yeah. You start to feel kind of frail. Yeah. A little frail, exactly. And also, this is when we really start to have to understand, you know that cranky old man? He's not cranky. He's dealing with a lot that you can't see, and he remembers what it was like not to have to manage that. Now we have a pair of Crocs with a thick layer of foam on the bottom. Okay. Now, what are these designed to do? Lauren, is this a style statement? Well, in part, in part, but in part also for balance. Oh, they're wobbly. Yeah. So what I want you to understand, this is not the destiny of aging. There's no birth date around this, but age-related diseases start to gather. So the wobbly is, you know, whether it's neuropathy, maybe change in foot pad, all of a sudden now you're not as sure. You see people moving slowly in the store. Yes. And not because they're slow, they're not sure of their footing anymore. Holy cow. And you're putting ankle weights around me? So this is getting at similarly to the vest, it's some of that muscle loss. Well, I think the thing that's really striking about even just getting the suit on, and I have not even tried to move in it yet, what's very striking is just this idea that you used to feel a certain way in your body, and now you don't feel like yourself. And given that I'm not at this stage in my life yet where I'm wobbly on my feet, unless I've had too many gins or beers, you don't appreciate what it must feel like to be inside a body physically that doesn't feel like yours, and how frustrating it must be. I mean, I'll tell a quick story. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So I went to a plastic surgery, and it didn't go according to plan, and there was one of these floaters. Mm-hmm. And you can see it in his eye, like it kind of twinkles. Oh, wow. Yeah. And it really bothers him. Yeah. And it's been a year now, and there's kind of this, "Oh, well, you know, you just kind of have to deal with it." But I can tell how frustrated he is by it. Yeah. It's just the little things start to add up. Yes. And they become bigger. One of the things that has been amazing is that Agnes is a teachable moment, so when young students. Right. When young students wear it, or frankly, we even had teenagers wear it, all of a sudden they go, "You know, I'm going to be nicer to Grandma and Grandpa or older people." I start to understand why I should hold the door open, not just because it's an honorable, polite thing to do. All of a sudden now, I get why they're a little slower, why it's more difficult. Okay. Now what's coming? So I'm actually going to have you try to pull on this and tighten it just a little bit. Okay. This is hard to do. You're making me get my own. Yes. So she's asking me to tighten this. This thing. That's right. We haven't given you arthritic hands yet. And I can't. I actually can't get this thing done, so now I feel demoralized because I can't get my own belt tightened, and I'm going to have to ask Doc to help me here. Oh my. This is so much harder than I thought it was going to be. It makes me feel two things at once. I feel a lot of compassion for anyone who's getting older and who is having trouble moving, or who is feeling fragile or frustrated, or that there's just. The friction is the right word. And the second thing that I felt was just this sense of urgency for why I need to be lifting weights right now, why I need to be eating healthy, why I need to pay attention to mobility and balance now, before I get into a situation where everything's breaking down. When you think about aging, most people don't really have a definition of it. They think about it as a number of birthdays, that's older. Yes. Actually, aging is about diminishing capacity over time, so. Aging? Hold on. Let me make sure I'm clear. Let me make sure. Aging is about capacity diminishing over time. Over time. So your weight lifting is increasing your capacity. You're pushing out the clock. learning something new keeps you cognitively well so the idea is is not to shall we say go quietly into that good night but to do the things like eating exercise social condition to push aging out further out what i notice is the crocs you're making i feel like i'm i'm doing a drunk driving test yeah exactly like walk a line and i'm wobbling you feel unsure as you walk you feel like and when you hear then that if you break a hip you're dead in a year right now i don't want to fall so i'm feeling a little nervous about even taking a step and you know if you're listening i i i it's a belt around you that has bungee cords attached to your shoes and so as you're walking and you're kind of stepping on a shoe that's like round on the bottom your ankles are like a weeba wobble yeah and then the spring is is keeping you and you feel the tension so you don't really want to stride it out you want you feel hesitant wow oh god she's about to put a neck brace on the hits keep on coming i don't love this part okay why do i have a neck brace on well think about this and you know the lab my lab started around older drivers and transportation yeah one of the things people say you know these cars aren't designed very well i can't see out the window well here's the secret by the time you're in your 30s yes you heard me in your 30s your neck rotation is starting to reduce and so suddenly no the car is fine you're just not turning your neck so what you're doing is you're just not turning your neck i'm trying to turn and look at you now and i can't actually you're missing the car behind you over here if you've ever had a stiff neck yep you know that you turn your whole body in order to see and if this is what you have to do every day this makes this suit makes you feel like a gigantic jerk for being impatient with people that are older yeah it really does because it puts into perspective the physical friction of just getting through the day and you know the irony is we always have to be a little bit more patient with people that are older and we're not going to be able to do that we're going to have to be a little bit more patient with people that are older and we're going to have to be a little bit more patient with them they older people with any look we are they because the alternative is not nearly as positive as pretty that's true okay now what are you doing so the next thing um is vision so we have pairs of goggles that simulate different vision conditions okay this one is impaired acuity which is just standard low vision well i have that when i don't wear my glasses so what we can do is take off your glasses and actually have you put on these yellow glasses okay and even just lifting up to take my glasses off okay so this is a helmet why do we have a helmet in case i fall well it's for safety um it's also for you'll notice this is exhausting velcro that'll be the last bunch this further reduces movement okay and again all i want to do is sit down yeah and i'm exhausted already and i haven't even started walking that's right we're gonna do something we're gonna have some fun here in a few minutes wow we have so much more with dr coughlin and this aging astronaut suit come back plus very specific advice for you caregivers that you do not want to miss so stay with me welcome back it's your friend mel and today you and i are here with dr joseph coughlin right now i'm a sight to behold i am wearing this mit age lab astronaut aging suit it's called agnes we're going around the office here in boston and let's just jump right back in so dr coughlin what is the next thing you're going to make me do in this suit so why don't we go for a little bit of a walk okay easier said than done doc okay so i'm going to follow you come on speed it up we don't have all day oh my god that you're like my my petulant grandson so we're gonna do some just basic everyday things so let's go for a walk i want you to step around the cones okay you're just basically going around your house in this suit you just feel a little like your balance is on oh wait you got daily activities you got some laundry to pick up here i don't want to pick it up because it feels like it's gonna be hard that's why it's been sitting there for a while now i'm like feeling friction because why am i the one that's picking this thing up oh my god okay so we're gonna keep walking oh my so okay walk around the car now i'm walking around those missing socks that are always missing they're right there they're socks on the floor i have the laundry basket that just burned through like a hundred calories to but i i can't bend down oh my god okay now i'm bracing my hand on my knee to get the socks i'm getting back up we step over here because the room that you're going to is this way okay and now we're walking out that's exhausting that was a lot of friction and these these these rounded crocs do not make it easy no and this is where we start to worry about balance not just strength but the power of balance because as you mentioned before if we fall and we break something that can be lethal let alone just well and also if you're feeling wobbly you don't walk in a way that probably stabilizes you because you're thinking about falling like the whole time i was walking i'm like i can't believe how unstable i am right now and remember your suit is only simulating how you feel in the built environment i'm not simulating for instance right now hearing balance related issues with your ears or maybe frankly maybe you have high blood pressure you went to get up your blood pressure dropped you're feeling a little off balance wow it's really stunning how this hits you okay next task you want to go for a walk perhaps while i'm up i think i better keep moving because i think if i sit down i'm not going to get up one of the challenges now i want to be careful about this and one of the challenges is going up and down stairs yes there is a strong philosophy out there it's like everyone should live on a one-floor home perhaps but remember those stairs are going up and down stairs and stairs also become shall we say exercise okay you never want to make a life so easy that you lose all the friction because that friction is what's giving you a little bit of muscle mass that's giving you a little bit of you know activity if you will gotcha now that said let's do the stairs okay let's do the stairs tell you what actually you go ahead and open the door okay i open the door okay here we go and you know here's just one of those daily activities that becomes a little bit you know daunting yep okay i would use the railing i'm definitely going to use the railing everyone of any age should use the railing oh my lord i these bungee cords that are around my waist attached to my wobbly crocs make every step like super deliberate i mean i'm not even injured i feel like i'm injured and you can feel how the rise in the stairs are just you know sometimes a little bit more challenging than you expected i feel this in my hips yep oh my lord let me get to the landing so i'm stable when i turn around down is often harder on your knees than going up so it is very daunting to go downstairs the crocs are wobbly the bands just kind of remind you that your legs are there so something that you took for granted you now have to think about every single step that you take and your vision should be distorting a little bit of your depth of field oh it is and not being able to turn your neck as well as you'd like is also making it more difficult to judge just what your next step is going to be yeah all of a sudden when the world starts to have a little bit more friction whether it's going up or downstairs suddenly like you know i might want to go downstairs make a cup of tea or make breakfast or something like that i just don't feel like it right now so i think i'll stay in the bedroom and watch tv a little bit more and then i'm going to go downstairs and i'm going to watch tv a little bit longer so suddenly now what was once a very large world in your youth starts to compress and get smaller because the physical environment is not adapting to what you're doing well i can see that and i think every one of us if you're listening or if you're watching right now i want you to think of somebody in your life that you care about who as they're getting older you've noticed that their entire world has gotten smaller their friend circle has reduced they've become less active and you really don't know what's going on and you're like oh my god i'm going to have to understand when you put this astronaut aging suit on that it's because it's easier to stay home it's easier not to get in the car or go or it's easier not to push yourself out the door because everything just involves a lot more effort that's the piece that i think is very striking that you have a memory of what it was like to trot down the stairs you have a memory of what it was like to be able to pick up the laundry basket not even think twice about it while you were talking on the phone and you're like oh my god i'm going to have to go down the stairs and you had something under your arm and the friction for me is not even the physical as much as it's the mental of confronting the decline in capacity knowing that it wasn't always like this and don't underestimate when we talk about the world getting smaller it's not just about navigating stairs or the kitchen all of us worry about how people look at us in the world yes and so there's a certain frustration too of like i don't want to be seen as struggling or somehow less we're living in a faster faster world where the population is getting older and may not be able to adapt to that speed and tempo so what happens um i don't want to go out friday night with you it's not that i don't feel well i just don't feel like it in part it's because i just don't want those public eyes watching me go through the door having a hard time taking my jacket off yes it makes lots that makes a ton of sense pride matters at all ages okay i know you're tired, so I tell you what, why don't we have you sit down for a few minutes you're reading my mind doc that's all i want to do is turn on the news not the news thank you so i think you're about ready for a rest i am ready to sit down why don't you take a seat over here one of the things that's also happening is i just keep expecting the suit not to be here and i you know i'm like trying to move through it and i just feel this sense of like you know resignation like okay this is just how it is it's just another day oh my god okay this chair is really well here's a little here's a little and it's back well how the hell am i gonna get out of this well that's part of the challenge i mean this is the little things that people forget about as we age or we think about our parents aging i'm gonna get them a nice comfortable chair i'm gonna build an office where it's nice and comfortable low soft chairs just three weeks ago i was visiting my parents in florida and we went to a furniture store and i sat down in this chair and i thought oh my god this chair is so comfortable it's amazing and i said hey mom sit down in this and my mom who is in great shape sat down and she's like i couldn't sit in this i said why she goes it's too low it's too hard to get out of exactly and i thought oh for god's sakes and now i'm thinking i'm such a jerk and think of the little friction points you take for granted so you're talking about the chair right getting in and out of car and we work with the auto industry about getting in and out of the car is more than the battle of driving the car how about going to the toilet a low toilet oh my gosh good luck getting back up well that's hard enough for any of us but i mean i can't even imagine how hard it is when you walk in and you see a toilet that low and you think uh-oh here we go all these things need to be re-engineered for the society that is coming not the society that we used to be well i think what needs to be re-engineered immediately is just your attitude toward the people that you care about that are getting older and your attitude and patience level with people that you care about and you care about the people that you care about and you care about the people that you encounter every day in your life the person who might be taking a little too long in front of you in the line the person that's driving a little slower because they're hesitant i it just it's it's just so striking the friction that you feel and you know i for the first couple moments in this suit i'm like okay i can get through this we're like these are wobbly crocs for crying out loud but then you get to the point where you're just like all right this is it like i i just have to stop fighting it and this is just kind of what i'm gonna have to deal with i don't want to get out of this chair because i feel like this is going to be a chore like if i were sitting here without this astronaut aging suit on i would just stand up and what i actually have to do is i i need to brace and pull myself forward and now i've got to get my feet up underneath me with my wobbly crocs and now stand up which basically feels like your 12th rep of a squat at the gym weighted with weights up here that's what it felt like to get out of that chair and you're taking your time imagine you were at a restaurant you just had about an hour and everybody's already stood up and gone and now there you are trying to get yourself up or you feel even if they're not they're watching you do it yes oh grandma's looking old yeah grandma's like grandpa's really kind of slowing down because we all say it but now we know why but you're looking a little thirsty would you like a glass or a bottle of water i'll tell you why don't we step over here okay and let's try out those those hands that you've got okay so i have on fingerless gloves that um what do these these are uh more around arthritis you know loss of dexterity but also arthritis stiff hands a little bit of pain going on there so you start you know one of the number one indicators of older age is grip strikes okay i'm holding a plastic water bottle just your average plastic water bottle i take it nobody here glued this shut um okay even like getting my compromised you're spilling it everywhere i am i did spill that didn't i so so here's the funny thing is that we are trying to be environmentally sensitive with thinner plastic less you know smaller cap but that's where green is now conflicting with a graying society because you need a bigger cap to get a grip and with thinner plastic you're done you're squeezing it hard and that's why we have water on the floor literally squeeze this on my hand you're absolutely right wow okay that's a pain so you want a phone home i'd love to call my husband and tell him to get me out of this aging suit okay so here's my phone my vision is compromised i don't have i even have the giant font on my phone everybody so i'm supposed to call chris now text chris okay let's see here okay i can you know how i can tell it's him because there's i think there's this blurry photo and thankfully he's on my favorites and if you're listening i want you to know the phone is approximately two inches from my face i can't i just typed the words high and i can't make out the h in the eye but i know that that's what that is okay hi i'm gonna do the little emoji that's popping up so why don't you send him a photo as well okay i probably should since he doesn't know what age you're sure you sent it to chris or not somebody else it wouldn't be the first time that i missed okay here we go okay well i can't reach oh okay this sucks i'm trying to take a photo in the age astronaut suit everybody and as i you know i have to hold up the phone like with a cell phone or something like that so i'm trying to take a photo in the age selfie now i'm trying to reach forward to hit the button in the center because none of my grandkids taught me that i can do it on the side so now i look like an idiot in front of everybody we need a spare gen z or millennial yes okay so i'm going to hit this button here we go i i'm faking a smile because this is awful okay there we go chris now let's see if i can get this to him oh i don't know what that means i don't know what the buttons are okay hold on there he is thank god for the photos there we go i just sent it to him so if you think about these technologies the way they're designed they're designed primarily for younger fingers younger eyes and whatnot but they're vital to our connection and we are now more shall we say connected by high tech than we are with high touch so all of a sudden now that was more important than just the interface it was about how you stay connected not just with your husband but everyone else well you can also see how you would lean back and opt out from tech because it feels overwhelming and if nobody's there to help you really assimilate it into your life you just sort of opt out and then we make fun of somebody for not being with the times or not knowing the trends or not understanding and so you can see how somebody would just slowly back away from wanting to be in touch with everybody because you don't want to feel as you're incompetent on something but i have to tell you at the age lab you know we call technology that's hard to use hard to see and difficult to understand bad technology it is the only industry in the world that dares to accuse the consumer of not being competent if you can't use it that's the technology's fault not yours this is so second nature to be able to text chris that i would have typically been able to do that in five to ten seconds no question and what's what's really interesting about this experience as you're listening or watching is that keep in mind you are having trouble doing things you have always done and that's where a lot of the friction comes i mean you've spent your whole life getting in and out of chairs and now suddenly you can't you've spent your whole life going up and downstairs suddenly you can't like for the person that is actually living in the age suit right now you already have the tight joints it's hard to pick up the laundry basket what is the message that you want that person to hear from you about what's possible in terms of gaining some of your strength and autonomy back and tapping back into your life and widening the aperture rather than making it so small there are three things that that person but not just that person but the people who love them their their adult children their spouse their partner whatever it might be three things to think about one is that you can get some capability back so that working out that nutrition is about what you can do to improve shall we say the original equipment yep the second thing is the built environment itself the house the car whatever start to arrange things not just because they think they're aesthetically nice but how do you arrange the the right furniture the right way to organize your kitchen to make it so it's easy for you to maneuver every day to reduce that friction the third one and this is the hardest you can eat you can do nutrition you can rearrange your lifestyle the third one ask for help ask for support so think about yourself the environment and the human element what i love about this episode that we're doing is that you can use this episode as a resource you can send it with somebody in your life who is older or send it to somebody in your life who's younger who doesn't understand and use this as a way to open up the conversation with the people in your life about the support that you need and now you just put your finger on the most important thing you could do to plan for a better longevity the conversation there's no reason to feel that aging has to be something you do alone it's a conversation with the people you love the people that you call friends about how to rearrange the environment yep what is it that we can do to improve each other's lives i also love that we have this now as an episode for doctors physicians therapists nurses people working in nursing homes and schools to be able to send to families as something to listen to so that you can have the conversation in a very powerful and supportive and empathetic way and again it's not about quote unquote those old people this is something that we all have a vested interest it's coming for all of us everybody so uh there's no exit there's no exit there's just how you move toward it okay oh i think you've had enough fun it's time to take the suit off I'm so, those are music to my ears. Dr. Coughlin has so much more specific advice when we return. Don't go anywhere. Welcome back. It's your friend, Mel. Thank you for being here with me today. Thank you for listening all the way to this point and for sharing this extraordinary episode with people in your life that you truly care about because we're learning how to stay strong, sharp, and independent for a hundred years. With the number one longevity expert, I'm talking about MIT Age Lab Director, Dr. Joseph Coughlin. And so we're going to start ripping off the Velcro. You know, can I just say something? I can't even get the damn Velcro off these weights, the weighted vest with these gloves on. Well, Lauren's here to help you, but while you're taking this suit off. I can't get these weights off. This is. It's not that it's hard. It's so frustrating. You feel almost like, I don't know, a little demoralized. Did you have an aha moment, though, about being able to see, frankly, this could be my future self, and now you're more empowered or wanting to go to the gym, perhaps? Well, I don't want to do the interview. I want to go do some weightlifting because I don't want this to be my future. And I know based on the research that if you stay active and you're going to be able to do this, you're going to be able to do this. You're going to be able to do this. And you can start at any age. It helps your joints from getting stiff. It helps your balance. It helps your muscles be able to stay strong so that they're not hanging off of you when creating all this extra weight. And that it really is important. You know, we can talk all we want about how longevity, living a great life, for me means, you know, I want to be able to put my suitcase in the overhead when I'm traveling to visit a grandchild in my home. I want to be able to walk with my friends. I want to be able to cook and live independently if that's what I choose. And so it's funny, in an older age, we often think about, will I have enough money? But what you're talking about is the real currency of longevity. The capacity to put that suitcase up and go visit. Yes. Preferably without a lot of help. Well, and I'll take the help, but I don't want to feel like I need it to, like I can't get the hand weights off. These are only two pounds. Like, that's nothing. And it feels like everything, and so the big aha moment for me, again, in two areas. One is for myself personally. There are things I need to be doing and you need to be doing as you listen to this or watch this that extend your life and the joy you will feel and the energy you will have by decades. And how it's not the, what is it? It's not the years in your life, it's the life in your years. And that's what this is really about. And the second thing is, I feel like a giant, giant schmucko for, I'm not kidding, for either being frustrated with the people in my life that have gotten older or being impatient with somebody who is taking a little longer or driving a little slower or walking a little slower or being judgy of somebody who is asking about tech or asking the same question again or doesn't like the chair because it sits a little low and it's hard to get out of and, you know, you like the chair because it's nice. And so I just have had two massive aha moments, one related to personal motivation and why it matters at a deeper level. It's not about bathing suits and fitting into pants. It's about putting more joy and years into the life that you have. You've got more time. Now, how do we cash that time in to be joyful? And I'm hoping that, you know, through your experience just now that there's another point. It's not just about how we individually need to eat, exercise and all that. We've got to improve our personal function. But also people often pursue behaviors because other people encourage them to do it or other people around them are doing the same thing. So if you're a younger adult child or something, the idea of really give your parents or a loved one a that a boy, that a girl for working out or encourage them to work out. Yes. For their own good. And frankly, if you're a caregiver for your good too. Well, we're going to talk more about caregiving and why this matters so much for you if you're caring for little kids. If you're caring for aging parents, why it is so important that you figure out small ways to take care of yourself. And by taking care of yourself, we're talking sleep. We're talking you making time to still exercise. We're talking about you eating what you need to eat. You finding one point every week where you're doing something just for you. Whether it's reading a book or going to, you know, a spiritual thing. Just shimmy that sucker right off. There we go. Couldn't get the belt off, everybody. Even without the hand restraints, with my own hands, I wasn't that good at it. All right, we're going to take off the suit. You're going to feel a momentary relief as soon as this all starts coming off. Oh, my God, you guys. I have to get this weighted vest off. Boy, you can't wait. How do I get this off? Okay. Oh, my God. Oh, my gosh. Wow. Wow. Wow. Get these Crocs off. I want to feel my feet on the ground. Yep, steady. Steady? Oh, my God. Get these goggles off. Get your glasses back on. Get my glasses back on. Holy cow. I feel like a completely different person. See, Lauren looks really sweet, but see what she does to a person in five minutes? It's weird how different that was. I don't want that to be what happens. So you've got to work for it. You've got to work for it. I think now that you understand what's coming, it's important to understand what you're working for. It's important to understand what you're working for. And that the body and the human, thank you, the human body is incredible and that it is, I always like to, I like to think about the fact that we're all like wilting plants in the corner. A little bit of sun and water would perk right back up. And I think that's true about sleep and movement and resistance training and exercise. And by the way, it's not just what we're doing for ourselves. We invest financially for our own security so that we're not a burden on others. Investing in yourself physically, nutritionally, cognitively, is an investment for others as well. Look, aging is inevitable. How you age is not necessarily so. And how we support the people around us who are aging is 1000% in your control. Exactly. And that's one of the biggest things that this experience has taught me that I have a major amount of changing to do, personally. So I want to unpack this, like step by step by step to make sure that as you've been listening or you've been watching, that you really get the most important takeaways for you and yourself personally, and also for your family and the people that you care about. Because I know this is going to be one of these conversations that spreads around the world and creates so much positive change for people personally and within their families. So let's go back in the studio. Sounds like a plan. So we are back in the studio and everybody on the team, Dr. Coughlin has come up to me since doing the suit. And just said, you know, "What was that like? Holy cow, it was unbelievable to see you do that." And I really did feel like my grandmother. Is it a perfect simulation? No, but it's close enough to give you that aha for your grandmother, or frankly, the way my students, the researchers and the companies we work with, is to give them a sense of what it's like to walk in that consumer's shoes, whether it's senior living, the drugstore, frankly, just going out to eat. I have to ask you, how prepared are people in general for facing the phase of life where it's retirement or your capacity to move through your life is starting to decline? The fact of the matter is, is that most of us plan for retirement, but we don't prepare for retirement. It sounds like a word game. I don't mean it to be. I want you to think about this. Planning is much like a grocery list. It's the intent to eat. But anyone who's in charge of shopping, shall we say, we know that until it's in the cart, in the cabinet, or frankly, on the plate, you're not eating. And that's the preparedness. The preparedness part is, are you aware of the things you need to do? Are you giving it a little attention? Then ultimately, are you taking action? And so bottom line is, we are not prepared very well at all. And what do you want us to know about what's actually possible? Think about this. The 30 extra years we have gained in longevity since the year 1900, that's a dividend to be cashed in, not something to be wallowing sadness about. So what I want people to think about is that the joy that they can achieve, the daily moments, but more importantly, being prepared is not just about being, you know, good, rational person. It's also an act of love, an act of love for yourself, an act of love for those that you love and the like. For the person who's in the state that I am in, all of my friends are in right now. We're all talking about it. We're trying to gently open the door and have the conversation. I'm grateful that you're here because this episode is a wonderful way to open the door. But what's one step that the person listening or watching can take to start having this conversation about setting somebody up to age well and have all these components in place so that you can? You know, for the most important technology out there is the conversation. It's not an app. It's not a gee whiz. It's not genetics or space travel. really is the conversation. And one of the things I want you to think about, I want everyone. want to think about is that we do not have a story for old age. We have a story that old age is somewhere between cruises and crutches, and we forget all the chapters in between. And so my team at the MIT Age Lab did some awesome work with our partners at John Hancock to develop a map of what longevity is going to be like. In fairness, we've never had a generation of people living this long, with this high of expectations, with not just one generation caring for another. You know, we all talk about the sandwich generation. The heck with that. There's no sandwich generation. We have a panini generation now because people in their 60s are caring for parents in their 80s and 90s. And by the way, that 40-something-year-old mom with kids and working full-time is worried about the 60-year-old as much as she's worrying about the grandparents. So suddenly, this is new. We've always had older people, but not with this much time and expectation. So we created this idea of a Longevity Preparedness Index. And so we pooled all this research from around the world and stuff we've been doing at the lab for 25 years, and we found eight different dimensions to start that conversation that we're talking about. And we're going to go through the Longevity Preparedness Index. There are eight different stages. Eight dimensions. All right, so let's look at those eight dimensions. First one is the obvious one, and certainly with Agnes, you can appreciate this, is the health-related issue. Are you pursuing behaviors and nutrition that make sense? Finance? Hey, when you think about old age and retirement, basically the entire world has you believing it's either health or it's wealth. That's true. That's all you think about, health and wealth. Those are the bookends. But think about all those chapters in between. So finance is certainly an important part. And those are just the first two. So first one is health, second one is finance, and now what are the other six? And by the way, this is not priority, but this is just the list. I know you're interviewing me, but I'm going to ask you the question, what's the most important number in your old age? I don't know. It's not your 401k balance. It's not your blood pressure, your cholesterol. Is it the number of people I'm living with? Actually, it's your zip code. Your zip code predicts everything from the access to the people that you love, the things that you need, to that ice cream cone that we were talking about. In fact, do you know that studies have been done that shows that zip codes right next to each other can mean nine to 13 years difference in your longevity overall? Really? So the third dimension is community. Choose well. Choose where you live. We all want to know the zip codes. So I teach urban planning, so I'll say it's intensity, density, and accessibility. Intensity is, are there things to do that are fun, that kind of keep you alive, but also the things you need? Access to transportation, access to healthcare. And by the way, access to volunteering work and the parks and the like. Density. Are they close enough where you can get to them? If you choose not to drive, can't drive, are they nearby? That ice cream cone is close enough where you can get to them. If you choose not to drive, can't drive, that's too far away, you don't need it. But boy, that doesn't bring a smile to your face. And then frankly, the accessibility part, which is, you know, how accessible are these things, both physically and affordability and the like. And I'll even give you a tool. AARP's got a livability index where you can pop in a zip code and it will give you a score as to what the livability is of that given community that you may be planning for, or frankly, the one that you live in now. And it makes sense. Like, as I'm sitting here thinking, I live in Southern Vermont. I have to drive everywhere. I don't see another house from where I live. I'm in a rural area, even though I'm just like a couple miles from a really nice town with all the things that I could possibly need. I can't get there unless I want to walk for two hours or I am in a car. And I'm thinking, okay, I can only live here for so long that I'm going to have to go somewhere else. This is not a good retirement option unless I have kids all over. Part of aging well is choosing where to age is one of the most important things. Fourth one is home. Is your home going to support you? Whether it's not just about stairs, but it's about maintenance, about how difficult is it to remain in that home overall? The next one, life transitions. How well are we prepared for the transitions we have in life from retirement to caregiving, to having to move and the like? Have we thought about how we're going to do that? Who we're going to do it with? Daily activities. This is the Tuesday morning question at 1030. What are the things, have you thought about what you're going to be doing on any given day? Without the structure of work, without having the structure of caregiving kids and the like. Social connection. Again, the social portfolio idea. So we talk about who's, what's in your wallet, what's in your portfolio. And the last one is caregiving. And probably the biggest thing that was overwhelming is caregiving had the lowest score in terms of people being prepared to provide care for another. That one was a 42. Oh, you are flunking out of school if you're getting a 42. It's amazing about that to quote Rosalind Carter or to paraphrase her. One of the things that she said is that at some point in life, all of us will either be a care recipient or a caregiver. The problem is, Mel, we don't have the conversations. Our same study with Hancock indicated 70% of us believe that our significant other or our adult child will provide us with care. Only 30% of us have had the conversation. So it's like going to your typically, I keep on hammering the adult daughters. I'm sorry, guys. But yes, men are caregivers. But overwhelmingly, the number one caregiver in your life is your spouse. And after that, the oldest adult daughter. Without that conversation, it's like, surprise, I'm home. For the person who's listening, and you're part of the 70% of people. Who have not had the conversation. Or you've tried and you got nowhere. What is the best first step, Dr. Coughlin, to begin the conversation? I would cut it down to, shall we say, some simple, uh, uh, questions. Questions overall. You have a conversation, multiple, because there's no one and done. This is going to continue. About who, where, what, and how. So the who part is, you know, kind of gently go into who is going to provide care? Who, who do you think is going to provide care? Who's going to help with the, the hands-on caregiving we, we were talking about overall? But there's another side of who. A lot of us have somebody to care for us for medications and dress and around the house, but also who's going to make the decisions. Who do you want making decisions if you can't? So those are two different conversations that need to be had gently over time, but they need to be have. How about the where? When it comes time for caregiving, where do you want that care to happen? Do you want home care? Do you want to come live with your, uh, adult children? Do you want to be in senior living? What, what are, what are the values, if you will, about the where? And by the way, the, the what overall is, and this is the hardest conversation. What matters? How about dignity? What are you willing to put up with to either maintain your life, extend your life, and, and the like? And then there's the obvious question that everyone goes to first, the how. How do we pay for this? How are the mechanics? So when we have the conversation, it's multiple. It's who, where, what, and how. You know, Dr. Coughlin, when you talked about this longevity preparedness index, and you found after doing this massive study, um, and you discovered that the area where people are the least prepared is caregiving, that 70% of us have not even had the conversation yet. And that based on the research and common sense, it tends to fall based on catastrophe to the oldest daughter. Do you have insight into why is it the eldest daughter that tends to be the one that the caregiving falls to? Look, it's unfair. It's not about gender. It's not about biology. It's about role. And traditionally across cultures, women tend to be the caregiver. Um, look, I don't want to indict my, my gender of guys. Uh, we will clean your gutters. We may help you with your finances. Uh, I'll take out your trash generally speaking. And I said generally, so please don't, you know, get all excited there. Generally speaking, it will be the older adult daughter. It's going to help you when you need to get dressed. So it tends to be a role there, but I have to tell you while caregiving has great joys and rewards, but you hear caregivers say after the loved one has passed, it was the most important, most thing they've ever done. There is a cost. It's physical, it's emotional, and indeed it's also financial and she is more likely to pay for it than anybody else. I think this is one of those conversations that people are going to listen to and be moved by and then share it inside the family. If the person that's listening right now got this sent to them by somebody in their family, what do you want them to know in terms of the invitation that's here right now about your role to play, whether it's in your own aging or it's in your role to play related to how somebody in your family may be aging? You know, there, there are a few things in my team at the MIT age lab has a panel of caregivers. We call it care hives. So several thousand caregivers around the world that we, we tend to ask them about those micro moments of caregiving. And when my team came up with the idea, I did not wanted to do it. I said, really guys, these people are busy, they're stressed and you want to hammer them with focus groups, surveys, whatever. One of the things that we learned, the caregivers wanted to participate because here's a question no one ever asks the question. What are you doing? Not just the loved one that they're caring for, but how are you doing? And so that little study. that's ongoing, asking people not just what you're doing, but how you're doing. So one of the things to think about is make sure that you're asking how they're doing and helping them care for themselves. Because the cost, as I mentioned, is the physical. Do you know that caregivers are more likely to express fatigue, headache, and like emotionally, depression, feeling alone, and financial. And this is the really hard work that we've been doing with the financial services industry. Women are more likely to either step out of a job entirely because they're having to care for a loved one full-time, or not take a promotion because the promotion may have travel and I've got to make sure I take care of mom overall, or because of the financial cost of caregiving. Even if that loved one has finances, it's going to set her back. So women effectively have a triple threat. They're caring for others. They're jeopardizing their own finances, which means that when by the time the third, they get to their own old age, they are not prepared for their own old age. They're not prepared for their own old age. I hadn't even thought about the financial impact. Because even if you're caring for somebody who's aging, who has their own money, if it's compromising your ability to make money. One in four families in the United States, and even more so in Europe and the like, provide upwards of 25 to 29 hours a week for caregiving. If you're over 50, one in three families are providing upwards of 25 to 29 hours a week for caregiving. This is a personal issue that should be a public problem, a public discussion. Here's the thing, Mel. Women tend to find a partner or marry someone who's a few years older than they are. They also tend to live seven to eight years longer. That means that while you're planning for old age and retirement together, she lives in second retirement of a decade alone. And so preparing for all the years that she gave to everyone else, she now needs to make sure she's financially, emotionally, and physically cared for in older age. What are the top three challenges, frictions, if you will, that caregivers face? Caregivers are more likely to point to, first one, health. Not just managing health, but the complexity of managing the health. When you start managing three, four, five, more likely seven medications a day, you may have a loved one who's not exactly being as compliant as you wish. You know, the person who said that they're feeling dizzy and not well on weekend, you take them to the doctor on Monday morning, you're trying to be their advocate, and they're going, oh, no, I was fine. I'm not, you know, so you're kind of, you know, you're trying to be their advocate, and that middle ground. Second one is largely around finance. You know, it's interesting, we are more willing to talk about our health, our caregiving, our failures, than we are about our money. And at some point, a family member, hopefully one that you trust, because fraud and scams are more likely to come from someone close to you than someone, you know, in a foreign country over online. Wait, the scams are more likely to come from somebody close to you? Unfortunately, you've got a lot of fraud that you have with family members, caregivers that mean well and eventually do not mean well. And that's a major point of research at the Age Lab right now. So the financial considerations of how are things organized? How, you know, where do I have the ability to make a decision for you if you can no longer do it? And how do you have the conversation when somebody says, no, that's none of your business, even if, you know, the person's meaning well? Wow. And what's the third? The third one is transportation. In fact, Mel, I'll give you a data point that even the best financial advisor does not know. Do you know the top three costs of retirement for a couple over 65? Everybody always jumps up healthcare. Okay, that's number two. First one is home. Number three is transportation. 70% of Americans over age 50 live in suburban and rural areas. Where there's no transit or it's not transit you want to use, or there's no alternatives. So caregivers often report that the big challenge they have for that number three is, God, I got to take time from work to make sure mom gets to the doctor or Saturday morning. I have a lot of things I need to do. I got to go take the kids to practice or whatever it might be. But also I got to make sure mom gets to the grocery store. I got to check in on mom to make sure, you know, I can help clean up around the house and give her a ride to a friend or get out. Transportation is not about getting from point A to B. That's the easy stuff. Transportation is the very glue that holds the big and little things we call life together. Can we talk about keys? You mentioned do not roll into like a holiday and say, pass the peas and give me your keys, mom and dad. Yeah, no, overall. And here's the challenge. A lot of people think that older drivers is that they show up at Thanksgiving. They haven't seen mom or dad for six months, maybe a year, maybe even more. And they kind of look at the table. Gee, he's gotten kind of older, hasn't he? And it's like, I don't think he should be driving. Mel, this is how the age lab started around older drivers. We know this area very well. It is not about birthdays. Birthdays do not kill. Health conditions do. And so it's about the health conditions, the medications they're taking, what combination, nutrition. As I like to say, I'd rather get in a car with an 80-year-old who's in decent shape than a 30-year-old taking allergy medication. And so one of the things you have to think about is, how are you going to get out of this? How are you going to get out of this? How are you going to get to the things and the people they love and want? So I'm going to talk to you about that. I'm going to talk to you about that. First thing to do with them, start experimenting. Start coming up with who's going to provide rides. If they've never taken a ride share opportunity with Lyft, Uber, or whoever is in the neighborhood, do it while they don't have to so they get it over with. I can feel that sense of urgency building inside me. I know there are very specific people I'm sending this to in my family. Hi, mom and dad and my brother. How are you? Let's talk about this episode. And I'm sure feeling the same way. And that's why I wanted to ask you, Dr. Coughlin, after all the extraordinary things that you have taught us today, shared with us today, educated us about today, if the person listening takes just one thing from this extraordinary conversation, what do you think the most important thing to take away is? You know, my dissertation advisor taught me that if you don't have three examples, you don't have a point. So I'm going to give you three takeaways, but this one is the most important one. Have the conversation. Longevity is a family project. It's not an individual thing. Talk about care, housing, what matters before the crisis happens, because when the crisis happens, somebody falls, breaks a hip on Friday. They're hospitalized surgery by Sunday. By Monday, the hospital's saying, congratulations, mom's coming home. Who, what, where, how? Remember those questions around caregiving. The second one, this becomes more personal for us. It's not just about the caregiving. It's about the caregiving. It's about a couple or individual plan for Tuesday. That Tuesday at 1030, that's really real. You need to add structure to a life that was always structured until the day you retire. And the third one, stop postponing your future you. There are things you can do today. Preparation is not about control. It's not just about independence. It's not about financial security alone. Preparation is an act of love, a love of self, a love of your significant other, and a love of all those that you think. You're going to be depending on over time. Dr. Coughlin, what are your parting words? Parting words is I don't want anyone to believe that older age is something that we should fear. This is a gift of time. You know, since people crawled out of the ooze, if you will, we've wanted to live longer, whether it's endless life, eternal life, you know, the trying to find all kinds of things going on to make sure that we live longer. In fact, think of the best way to live longer. It's the best way to live longer. It's the best way to live now going into longevity tech that we're going to live to 100, 150. That's great. I want you to look at older age as a gift of a dividend of upwards of three to four decades longer than our grandparents, great-grandparents may have enjoyed. A child born today, one half of them, it is said, are likely to live 100 years. We don't know how to cash in the years we have. Let's make living longer, living better. Well, Dr. Coughlin, I just have to say you are a gift. This research is so important. There are very few conversations that you have that both change your mind, that open you up to an entirely different perspective, and that soften your heart in a way that can not only transform your own life, but can improve the relationships that you have with the people that you care about. And this one has had a very deep impact on me personally. I know it's going to have an impact on my family. And I am also certain that there will be millions of families around the world who will navigate this differently, more compassionately because of what you taught us today. So thank you. Mel, my team has done amazing work at the MIT Asia Lab, but you're doing something that we cannot do before there are actions. there must be attention. Thank you for making that happen. You're welcome. And I want to thank you. Thank you. Dr. Coughlin just said it. You gave your time and attention, your most precious resource, to this conversation. And that really matters. And in case no one else tells you, as your friend, I wanted to be sure to tell you that I love you and I believe in you. And I believe in your ability to create a better life. And what Dr. Coughlin has taught us today about the opportunity, the gift of all of these additional years, he has taught us how not to just live more years, but to put more life into those years. And what a gift that is. All righty. I will see you in the very next episode. I'll welcome you in the moment you hit play. Maybe you're seeing this right now, that the lives of the people that you love are shrinking as they're getting older. Is that right? Does that sound good? Okay. You know, looking at you hurts. Like, I'm. A lot of people, a lot of people. People say that. Will you stop, doc? We are in for an extraordinary eye-opening and. Extraordinary eye-opening and helpful. We are in. You and I are in for an extraordinary eye-opening and profoundly helpful conversation for you and your family. Oh, my gosh. Okay. This was really dumb of me. Okay. All right. Okay. Great. Oh, my God. So good. All right. Thank you. Yes, you killed it. Oh, and one more thing. And no, this is not a blooper. This is the legal language. You know what the lawyers write and what I need to read to you. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. I'm just your friend. I am not a licensed therapist. And this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. Got it? Good. I'll see you in the next episode. Sirius XM Podcasts. Sirius XM Podcasts.