Mindy Kaling

Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of Good Hang. We have a great one today. We are talking to Mindy Kaling, Mindy Mogul, so good at so many things. And we get into it today. We talk about a lot of fun stuff. We talk about acapella groups. We talk about whether or not we think we can deliver a baby. We talk about the fact that she has written more episodes of the office than any other writer. And we get into her new show, Not Suitable for Work, which is on now, on Hulu. So lots of great stuff to talk about. And like always, we talk to someone who knows our guest and has a question for our guest. And speaking of Not Suitable for Work, we have one of the stars from that show, Avantika, joining us. Avantika, who you may know from the movie, musical of Mean Girls, a talented young woman who is here to, well to grace our presence, really, Avantika is my audio working. This episode is brought to you by Hilton. Did you hear Paris? Hilton has like a billion Hilton honors points. Well, she calls them Paris points and Hilton is helping her give them all away this summer. Use them for that wedding or pleasure, that's business and pleasure, or maybe book a stage just for sleep. As Paris would say, that's sliving. Just make sure you're a Hilton honors member and follow Paris and Hilton on the socials to see how Paris points can be your points. When you want points, it actually make your summer slay, it matters where you stay. Hi, it's so nice to see you again. It's so good to see you. Congratulations on all the good stuff happening for you and no surprise, where are we talking to you from? I'm on set right now, which is what my makeup looks a little scary. Are you shooting not suitable for work right now? Is that the set that you're on? Can you imagine I'm soft launching season two? No. This is not the set I'm on, I'm on an undisclosed set. Oh, exciting. I'm not liberty to talk about. You are busy, busy, busy. You know, we first met on the set of Moxie. Yeah. Yeah. How did we meet? Do you remember? I don't remember like the first initial meeting. I just have a really vivid memory of you, of like walking out of the school, like the classroom and seeing you and my dad, like holding hands and jumping up and down together because you figured out you guys had the same birthday because he loves talking. You both had your IDs on, I was like, cool, okay, great, a lot of everyone's getting along. Oh my god, he's a September 16th girly. Sadly, I've learned it's a very common, September birthdays are very common, I guess. Yeah, I guess people really get down, I know what does it say about that? They get down in the holidays, I guess. I guess, but we got bored. We got bored and we're full. Well, I remember I directed a film for Netflix called Moxie and it was filled with incredible cast and I remember you came and joined us for a two brief scene, but a really fun day. And that's really, that's really cute that your dad and I bonded. I was reading up on you, Vantica, and you're so impressive and the stuff that you've done. And I didn't know that you did a lot of Bollywood when you were younger. Yeah, it's how I started out. I think at the time I was 10 and any of my parents like to make safe bets and it was not a safe bet at the time to be like, what's Holla Sally and do this for the rest of your life? But India was a more prospective place if I wanted to be in the film industry. And so we moved there for like four years. Oh, wow. They moved there for your career. Yeah, yeah. My mom really like, my mom left her job the day that I was born. She was like, I want to spend all my time with my daughter and she made a lot of sacrifices for me to be in this industry. So I'm very grateful that now she gets to like watch a TV show and I like I like I hope she enjoys. And yeah, she really is the reason that I'm here not to get all emo on everyone. I get seven in the morning for you. No, no, no, I'm ready to cry anytime, anytime. Okay. So let's talk about your boss. So we're okay. So I'm interviewing Mindy Kaling today, whom I've known for a really long time and I'm really excited to talk to her because, you know, we have a lot of similar experiences and paths. And one of the things that I really want to talk to her about is like, what kind of boss is she? So the first time I ever met Mindy was in a parking lot that she took me to an LA because I had DMed her when I was 17 being like, I love you, I love you so much. And she was like, okay, she was like, yeah, like she's like, let me have my assistant schedule lunch. And I was like, this is the most exciting thing happening right now. And she took me to a friend's restaurant and a strip mall. And the seating is literally in a parking lot. And my dad was like parked 300 feet away. I love that thing. My dad's like making a reappearance in every story. He's just always prox of it. And um, he's actually in the room right now, you know what I'm saying? Um, but he took me to this front restaurant and was like, we need to try us cargo if you haven't tried. So my first like one on one experience with Mindy was like eating snails and her being this very, she was like, tell me about your career. She was like, what do you want in life? And I think the one thing that always stood out to me about her and is one of ever favorite qualities about her, but having worked on this set is that she's such a curious person. Like she, Mindy asks so many questions. She's just like down to gossip, she's down to gab. Like she knows about my love life, she knows about all of our love lives. Um, like Mindy's just a really fun person to be around. I really wish this time around that she like, we don't, because we're always scared of when we're going to lose Mindy, because like Mindy's first priority are her kids and like her life outside. And so this season, we're hoping that like we're going to get her claws in her and like, if we get renewed for the next season, she won't let us go, um, but she's fast. I think whether Mindy knows it or like can really comprehend it or not, she's like a present figure in so many of you, my sense, like sort of, you know, like a lot of people view Mindy as a friend and, uh, and, uh, and a role model or an idol, whether it be Kelly Kapoor or any of the characters she's, she's creative. Yeah. And as an, a young Indian woman watching her, what did it mean to see her, you know, representing her life and on screen, like what, what, what, what was that like as a young person? I loved never have I ever, I mean, whenever I ever came out on trades that I was getting made, I was like, this is the most insane thing like I've ever seen in my life. I was, I was in that, so I would, I auditioned for Never Have I Ever and I was very young when I went out for it. But I remember being like in the waiting room, looking at the sign and she for, and being like, who are all the girls? Like I want to be friends with all of them. I remember telling my mom, so can you please memorize the latter half and all memories the pop-hop and then we can go and like DM their mom's on Facebook because I really want to be friends with well if you're playing in the industry and we all know how well DMs work for you. Well, it works and my tree was perfect for that role and she did like, so, so incredible. But all that to say, like, she has a very odd, incredible way of bringing together community and bringing together both off camera, but also behind the scenes as well. And I think watching her on screen met the same thing as representation means to more anybody, which is that like, "Oh, people like me exist and people like me are deserving of being put on a big platform." Very cool. Okay, so we have, we always do this thing where we ask our guests a question from somebody who knows them, respects them, works with them, loves and adores them. So what question do you have from Mindy today? I'd like to know for someone who's accomplished so much like what her personal like Egot is, like what her four accomplishments that she wants to achieve in her life, like, spanning four different categories. That's such a big question I love, the big question you'll get to. So wait, so the question is what like, which is like, you've done so much, what more do you want to do? It's sort of like, like, if I don't know, like, a person like me, like, have four kids, get a PhD, spend like two years abroad, like, you know, donating money and like, the fourth one is like, I want a skydive, like, like, four things that you want to accomplish across, like, all sort of a breadth of categories. Yeah, I guess that is like, I'm sort of just like, she just says, she's just done so much that I'm like, what more do you want? That, I mean, it's, it's an, I bet she'll have an answer. Also there is a part of me that's like, or just rest, rest now, darling. Right, right, right. Personally, God, get put in a cryo chamber. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I love that. And please tell your dad that I can't wait to, you know, psychically spend my birthday with him again. And it's so lovely to see you. And I know Mindy will be really happy that we talk to congratulations on your new show, not suitable for work, on Hulu. And thank you so much for talking to us and for all the great things ahead for you. And such a pleasure to see you again. So good to see you, Joe. You too. Thanks so much for your time. Bye, honey. Bye. Bye. All right. All right. All right. All right. All right. hundreds on car insurance, not checking your pockets before putting clothes in the washer. Enjoy your freshly cleaned and completely destroyed earbuds. Yeah, checking first is a good plan. So check Allstate first for an auto quote. It could save you hundreds. You're in good hands with Allstate. Potential savings vary, subject to terms, conditions, and availability. Allstate North American insurance company and affiliates. Northbrook, Illinois. Mindy Kaling is here. Everybody took the red eye, which is I just got to say that's that's brutal. Isn't it funny how in my 20s it was the only way I would do things I'd shoot the office and then Friday night. I was like take the red eye, get into I'd just be going back to Boston to see my parents. Yeah. And my dad would pick me up at Logan at six o'clock. We'd go to McDonald's. But I just sleep for four hours. Yes. And now I was just talking to our friend Rashida Jones about this. It's the lack of recovery. It's like we can power through anything now. You know, like you just suck it up and power through, but it's there's no day to sleep after. There's no day to sleep. No. So I just I just did a line of code. Yeah, we're flying. I'm doing great. We're going to brag about our careers and then we're going to yeah, we're going to crash out in like 45 minutes. But you thank you for coming. Thank you for being here. Excited to be here. I know the member wouldn't we used to do David Letterman and the producers would be like do not compliment him. He doesn't know what to do with it. That's right. And you're like, oh, so it's like an insult to compliment a host. And then now I feel I felt like for other shows too. I was like don't do that. And then it feeds into a whole thing of like it's not cool to compliment. It was very formative when that producer was like, don't compliment it. It's so true. You're right. Hostile act. You're right. And yet I love compliments as a performer. And if someone came into my show and was like, I love the show. I feel like I love to give. I love to get. I mean, what literally what are we doing? I mean, like, what are we going to be like mean to each other? Like the world is on fire. Like who? I love recognition. Praise. So I just want to say that I love the show. Thank you. I watch it with my nanny. I'm a little person YouTube at night after the children are down. And it's it's like to it's such an intimate thing to watch in the dark. You talking to like Baron Holt's our buddy. Katherine Han. Oh, our buddy. Um, and then and then have our little ads on YouTube. You know, I was when I was getting ready for today. First of all, congrats on being a mogul straight up mogul. Um, thank you. Um, you don't have to explain. You take it in. You are a mogul, Mindy. Congratulations. Listen, listen, this is I know I'm interrupting you now. No, please. Are you a mogul if you haven't invested in a restaurant or sports team? That's a great question. Just because I want to accept. We know I love you today. We need to buy some kind of sports team. You're right. I like Christian Kutcher. Yeah, you're right. You know, like he owns Uber and Gaysha House. Like, but I'm driven to call more women geniuses and moguls and all that stuff because I think we just need to claim. Okay. So let's claim that. I'll claim that for you today. Thank you. And as a fellow Boston girl, yes, I feel like when I was looking at, you know, kind of like looking at all the stuff you do and just thinking thematically about what to talk about today. I mean, we've had a lot of very similar paths you and I and not just because we were born, like, you know, in close proximity of each other. Like, but, but, but we have really, I mean, we've been in this biz for a minute, been in this biz for a minute. And we've been together in a lot of it. So it's very, very nice to see you and to have you here. I love being here and to even be someone that you would say is on a similar journey because I, you were a little ahead. Yes, I was the, I was 10, I'm like about 10 years older than you. For my generation, for anyone who came up in New York and took classes with UCB and everything, it was like, you were the one doing it. Like, you were the one succeeding with all the mean, unacceptable and comedy. Do you know what I mean? Well, yeah, I mean, I think both you and I are used to and I want to talk about it. You and I are used to being one or the only woman in a room full of men a lot for a lot, especially in the beginning of our career and what, how that shaped us. Cambridge, Massachusetts, you're born and raised. Now, Cambridge was always where smart people lived and their smart parents. Yes. Did you have, were you considered like a smart kid in school? I was always considered a bright kid. Yeah. When I was younger, I think I was like kind of silent and chubby and friendly. And that was my vibe and not funny. But that was back, I don't know if you felt this way. That was back in the 80s when like, girls weren't really supposed to be funny. Right. And they were kind of good laughers. Good laughers. Yeah. And if you were funny or try to talk too much, it was kind of like you were, you had problems or you were like disrupting. You're right. Like the mischievous girls were the class clowns, which I look back now. And they were just like feisty, interesting young women, but people thought they were kind of troublemakers totally into my school. Being Indian too, so far from the, but also like, I felt like I was still just like observing. I noticed that like, it wasn't until I was like in middle school where I was like the class clowns who were guys were just like kind of outrageous. They weren't really funny. But when you're 12 and 13, there is no difference between someone who's like willing to like jump off the side of the school building and being someone who's funny. It was like all just like one thing. Totally. Everyone was examining it. Right. I think that for my parents too, like at that time, being funny in school was so tight to like kind of like an again, disruptive like non-academic. Yeah. Like you don't have a good path if you're like a funny kid. That's what I mean. Yeah, you're kind of like you're speaking out in class. You're kind of not paying attention. And I bet you had the same thing. I mean, maybe even more because your parents, you know, moved to the US when you when their your mom was pregnant with you. Yes. Yeah. And so like, you know, they're like, we don't need you to be the one that's cracking jokes in class. And I had parents who were teachers. So it was like don't like the funny kid is the one that's often like the the teacher is having to deal with having to do. Yeah. But they but they call you Mindy. Your nickname because from more than Mindy. So it was like, that's a real it's like mixed message. Well, my parents invited here in the 70s and nobody in entertainment on either side of the family. But they did like love comedy loved it. Like, and I think for us to where it's like it wasn't like we're coming home and having like these, you know, always like these deep chat. Yeah. We would just like sit in front of the TV and watch messy TV. They love sign fell. They love friends. They love the Cosmere show. Sure. I mean, we all did at one point at one point. Right? I can say one point. But I remember so distinctly when I was like 11 or 12 and I was of course like obsessed with Saturday night live. Yeah. We would watch Chris Farley. That was that you're like cast. Yes. It was like Sandler Chris Farley. But honestly, like from Dana Carvey to Bill Hater feels like the time, which is like long span. Yeah. Yeah. But we would see is it madfully? Yeah. Madfully. Yeah. And that character Chris Farley's character down by the river down by the river. Classic iconic character. Yeah. And he's like, I think one of the funniest people of all time. I agree. And when he, you know, he'd fall on the coffee table. And I remember laughing at it. So so much and showing it to my parents, like, reporting it. And I remember my mom being very worried. Because I was overweight. And I think she was like, and so she was like, I don't, she once sat me down when I was like 14. I was like, I don't want you to be like that. Oh, that's really interesting. Right. Like don't, don't feel like you need to be a clown. And I think she thought that like, okay, my overweight daughter who's not fitting into like the mainstream of culture will feel like the way to be accepted and funny is to be like Chris Farley. Now, the majesty of Chris Farley, like, I would only be so lucky as to have been like Chris Farley, but as a girl in the mid 90s, that was like, not a great pad. I love that we're talking about this because it's such an interesting point, which is young women, especially in the late 80s and 90s, they're way into comedy. Like how you get in was for really fraught in a way that men just did not have to worry about. They didn't have to worry about being physical and that seeming like it was putting people off. They didn't have to worry about like them being to sexualize it. And like they didn't have to worry about a ton of stuff. I think that much like you watching comedy at a young age and being like, I don't know, I want to, I want to live in this world. I don't know how to get into it. Yeah. And it wasn't habited by really loud physical men for the most part. And then finding the women who I love, too, I just kind of studied. And for me, it was like, okay, where did they study? Where did these women start? So it was like, oh, I'm going to go to Chicago. Like I'm just going to go there. And when you were, like, did you do comedy at Dartmouth? Yeah, I did improv. I did short form improv. We all did. You know, it's so funny. The two things that brought me so much joy in college are so mortifying to me now. But it's where I made so many great friends. I do short form improv with the dog day players at Dartmouth. And I was in the dog day players still there. Dog day players are still there. Incredible. And they're so, and ever so often, like every couple of years, I'm sure you feel as well. I like, they'll come to LA and I'll meet them or I'll see them at Dartmouth when I go up. And they're so cool now. And they do long form. And they, they also have that like studying thing where they've seen every. Yeah, episode of parks and the rest of the development. Larry Sanders, you know what I mean, and I say everything. A kinship to these people that are 25 or so more than you. But the difference is that like the guys in the trooper feminist, the women are unafraid to be with, to be who they are, they're all sort of activists, like all the stuff that I struggled with back then to do because it wasn't appealing because I also did. I wanted to be as like funny as Adam Sandler and do Upper Man, but I also wanted to boyfriend and to lose my virginity. And in the late 90s, it was like those two things were maybe like did not, they seem mutually exclusive. Oh, yeah. Acapella group you were also in. I love an Acapella group. Yes. Yes. I was in an Acapella group. And what song did you ever have a solo? I had it in one solo. And what was the song? Nine to five by Dolly Parton. Yes. I'm saying it badly. It was one of those things. You know, it's nice. It's like I don't have a good voice. But I have like a, I can like carry a tune. I think I have a good enough voice for a comedy person. And it was like that nice thing about being in a group of women because they're like clearly one person should have all the solos, but they're like, no, no, no, of course. That's not nice. Like, let me do you have a solo. So we would, I would sing nine to five. Yeah. And that Acapella group's name was, hey man, it was called the Rockefellers. Okay. I mean, I just, I love, I love a pun. Um, it's called the Rockefellers, at the time it was considered to be the coolest, the coolest group if you were a woman at Dartmouth. Of course. And I mean, I from my humble opinion, it was, I think Acapella is very cool. And also, now I would say it is cool because maybe this is such a bunch of bullshit. Like you're being so nice here, but it's so lame. No, no, I disagree. I don't, here's why because even then, I don't even mean in hindsight. Anyone who tries something. Yeah. That's cool. I guess if you apply, like the goals and rule of like we should all be putting ourselves out there, then it is cool, but, um, you know, I know, you know, people being like should be, do be, be Bob. I know. I know. I know. It was the same thing with Improv. Like, like Improv, like, you know, short form improv, and I, again, I want my formative year. Some of the, yes. All the boys I had crushes on in college were doing like short form improv. Terrible. Terrible. Um, it's so lame. Long form improv is cool though. Stand up is the coolest back, back then. Like if you were an improv or sketch group, you'd have your, like costumes and wigs or you'd be warming up and stuff like that. Okay. You're right. Acapella and improv both you have to warm up, like usually outside. You're like zips out, zapping. Yeah. That's not a cool. And I used to be like, we're cool. But then I'd see like a stand up, just literally, like throw their cigarette on the ground with a leather jacket and go on stage and be like, Oh, okay. After you left Dartmouth, did you move to New York? I lived in New York for three years. Okay. And you had some fun. I always love to ask people about their fun jobs, like their weird jobs. You had some good, weird jobs, right? Right. Some really good weird jobs. What were some of your weird jobs? Uh, the weirdest job I had was that I was a PA crossing up her with John Edward, the psychic, um, the psychic. Right. And he would do readings in the room and be able to tell if someone had like a dead relative who was trying to contact them. What was weird about it? Um, all that. I can't even ask what was your, like, now do you believe in, um, do you have, have you ever had a psychic experience? Do you go to psychics? I am not, I don't, I don't go to psych, psychics, but I would. Same. And I've gotten, as I've gotten older, even though I know more, I've gotten more superstitious than I used to be, to quote Michael Scott, I'm not superstitious, but I am a little superstitious. I kind of feel like, you know, there's, there's all different levels of like woo, woo, as Rachel Dratch would say, like, like, and whether or not you're open to it in your life. Yeah. And it is kind of a finding catch 22 where people are like, you have to be really open to it for it to, like, you have to open your channel for it. I have the most loosery astrological sign in the most loosery number on the anyograms. Wow. I loved it. No, looser number on the anyogram, but you have to say that looser or not, what would you think is a looser number? I can't answer. And I'm six. Well, but I would say six is very sharp. Like the six is like, thank you, Amy, but I, but I have, but I don't know how much about sixes. Yeah, because it's, you know, but it's the most common number. It is? Yes. Yeah. I definitely think it's accurate. Yeah. I feel seen. I haven't been able to use it practically to make my life better. I'm going to send you some fun gifts or gifs, however you like to say. I'm going to send you some fun, any of you have six gifts or gifs that you're going to love. I think there are a lot like the Harry Potter homes, you know, that we're everyone's, like, I have a Gryffindor Harry Potter thing. Right. I'm going to straight up Slytherin, dude. That's cool. Slytherin is cool. I wish I was a slither. What are you? I want to be Gryffindor, but no, I think I'm a Hufflepuff, which is also fine. I want to refute it, but listen, all right, say I'm right back at you. Okay. So you had some interesting jobs, but I want to talk about Matt and Ben for a second because that show was, I remember when that show, for people they don't know what was Matt and Ben. Yes. Okay. So I was babysitting at the time and my friend was a substitute teacher on your public school substitute teacher, my friend Brenda, and we were kind of miserable. I had applied to be a page at the NBC page program and I was certain I was going to get it. And then I didn't. And so we were just kind of like low level depressed, like for post 9/11, just like in jobs, like why am I even in New York? Like, I have no access to anything. And we started just improvising and I kind of adopted this character of like Ben Affleck in quotations because obviously we didn't know them at all. And she did Matt Damon, and then we were like, we'd just be doing these characters for like 10, 15 minutes and we're like, could we do something with this actually, as opposed to just like entertaining ourselves? And all of our friends thought it was so stupid. Yeah, great. And we just said, like, let's write a little play about the creative process between friends and competition, which has been interesting to me for a long, long time and competition between friends who you dearly love each other, but you're also looking out for yourself. And we were, we were 21 or 22 writing about what we imagined Matt Damon and Ben Affleck were when they were 21, 22. It's so psychotic. Like if I was Matt Damon and Ben Affleck, I'd be like, this is, have you ever talked to them about it? I have not. Matt Damon once and Ben Affleck, like a handful of times. And I think they think it's weird. This is a real person. They've been, been nothing but gracious, very strange thing. I would not be nice if someone was playing Mindy Cale in a play. Oh, I would try to destroy them with my lawyers. My team of lawyers would descend upon them and crush them. But to their credit, Matt, didn't, Matt, and Ben Affleck, and Ben played, what if Ben played you? That would be pretty fun. I'd be. I'd try to crush them with my lawyers. It's smart. Yeah. Just he's an assist, babe. Just straight away. Like go padlock the theater door. I'm going to take all that good accountant money from you. Yeah. And accountant too. I remember even at the time, I was like, this is radical because it was exactly, it was like two young women kind of assuming what would be like in the heads of like, you know, they were Matt and Ben were archetypes for just like young men, like working together and figuring out life together. And I remember you guys making that show and I was like, this is radical. This is like, we just thought so. It was, it was very cool. Well, thank you for saying it. I mean, it was so liberating to not have to worry about being pretty, like we were dressed as men. Yeah. It was, obviously we didn't invent camp, but we got to discover how fun it was to just play men, but really real. Yeah. And it was great to just, we didn't have to worry about any of the things that our contemporaries were kind of worrying about because we wrote the script. We directed it ourselves. Yeah. And it went to like fringe, right? So we did it at the fringe festival, we got into the fringe festival. We won the fringe festival, then it moved off Broadway. And that's when it started getting like attention, that's when like, like a couple celebrities came inside. And that's how it moved to LA and how I got hired on the office. You go from Matt and Ben to basically being the only woman in a writer's room at the office. Yeah. You are not only woman and the only woman of color in an incredibly smart, hyper talented and nice group of men, but yes, who, but still it is your first job. Yeah. I mean, you come from that world, it's competitive and it's like, and so I think that going into that room, like a lot of people now will be like, wow, I can't believe you got hired on the office. You were so young. You must feel so great. And you were like, looking, I mean, I look at the people who were, I was working with. They had been working since they were 21, you know, and had already had Emmys. So I still felt like I was behind. So I think, but I will say also like, I was such a workaholic. It helped that I was like, friendless and Los Angeles and had no hobbies because I was just obsessed with work. I was dazzled by like Mike, BJ, Paul Lieberstein, Greg, you know, and who wouldn't be like, I had never been in a writer's room and then I'm with these guys who are like, even to this day, consider some of the very best comedy writers. And later, like Lee Eisenberg, Jean Stipnitzky, like, just as dazzling. And so I really wanted to impress them. Yeah. I really wanted to date some of them. Yeah. Right. And I was varying degrees of successful in those. And when Kelly Kapoor was that written, like, how did And how did you find out you were gonna be on the show? - The way that I got the part was, I think, BJ had written this episode called "Diversity Day." And one of the funniest episodes in the office ever. And Greg decided that it would be the second episode. And in order for it to be funny, that like Michael Scott was offending a room of people, it wasn't as funny if it was just like all white, like you needed to be offending some people. And so, I was so lucky to be in the writer's room and being Indian 'cause he was like, would you play someone that he offends and then slaps him? And I was, I mean, I was just content to be a comedy writer for the rest of my life. That was like my dream come true. So to be on camera was like just outrageous. The one thing I think is so groundbreaking about the office was that at that time, the odds like to be on a show where you didn't have to be like a straightforwardly hot woman. - Yes. - Like the whole point is, you know, and this is a real Greg Daniels thing. It's like, what is beautiful is what is real? - Yes. - And that wasn't very many shows. - That's right. - That's right. - I also like love, and I'm sure you feel this way too. - Actually, maybe you don't, but I love being a meme. It makes me feel young. - Are you kidding me? It's my dream. When people send me, like, I've actually been like, can I send people meet my own memes? - Oh, do it. - It's such a might be too weird. - But there's no higher compliment. - I send people memes of Kelly saying this day is bananas. All day long, to Dave and I. - I mean, Kelly Kapoor is the definition of what the young people would say, like, someone who has main character energy. - She does have. - She is in her own world, her own show, and in that show. - It's fun to be a nice, I think, to be, just to, you know, she is a tertiary character, but believe she's a main character. That's like a really nice, she has one line every three episodes. - Yeah, she's in her own very intense play and drama forever. - And then the show does, like, I would say, like, any good character, like, the show, like, you know, and you know, from writing, like, you start to realize, like, what people's strengths are, you start to write to it. The show starts to realize, like, oh, what Kelly can do is, like, be in this kind of fierce, competitive fantasy world that can allow us to, like, like, you shoot a lot of threes in that show, because you, like, thank you. - That character is able to go to some really sharp and funny places. - Well, she thinks she's the hottest person at the office. - Yeah. - And, like, feels bad for Pam. - She is, you know, and thinks, like, Ryan's a huge catch, and that she's, like, destined for, you know, Pam. And so that is a fun, I mean, it's so fun to play, like, delusional characters, and then, to be able to then be delusional on the midi project with a different character. - Okay, good. That's a good segue, because you go from, you, I just want to say, you ended up writing more office episodes than anybody else. - Thank you for saying that. - Okay, so everybody needs to know that. - So all your office episodes that you love that everybody's watching every night, there's high probability that Mindy wrote it. - Like, my publicist was like, this is a talking point that needs to come across, Amy. - I mean, I could talk about this with you forever, and maybe it's too kind of inside baseball, but the way you enter the business, you entered the business as a writer, and then, like, you, in that same time, became a performer, and you're also a producer, and all those things have, like, different pros and cons. You really did do it for Mindy. You created, you were like, I'm gonna write, create, and star in this show, and there's, there's nothing harder. - That's so hard. - And there's nothing more gratifying. - Yeah. - Like, I was so obsessed with it. I mean, and then coming from the office where I had been there for eight years, had, like, a line every episode. You know, I was thinking about, like, recently, just, like, call sheets, and to be, like, the call sheet for people who don't know, but they might know is, you know, it's every day, it just announces the hierarchy of the production. - I love a call sheet so much. - Yeah. - I could stare at it forever for people and it's one piece of paper that tells you your entire day, week, month, and in many ways, your life. You're exactly right. It tells you who is number one, who is number two, who is number three, who is number four. - It lists the importance and descending order of the people that are there. And so for years on that show, as is obvious and should be, like, Steve is number one playing Michael Scott. And Kelly is number 11. And it's not like, you know, to come at the, we just talked about the first season when I was just lucky to have that first, you know, an episode two being able to be in that scene with Steve and to be able to be in SAG and be able to actually do all that, that's huge. But eight years later, I was like, number 11 gets a little old. And I was like, I really want to see what it's like to literally just have more lines. - Yeah. - And to be able to take on the thing of, like, being the comedy engine of a show. And I talked to Ike a lot about this and I think you did this with Parks and probably an SNL too. But like, it's a skill to be able to be the star of a sitcom and come in and just be like, my engine is on from seven o'clock in the morning until we wrap. - Yeah. - And I am just like, I had to bring the best out of other people and wake them up for seeing the morning. - Yeah, and kind of like a constant host. - Yeah. - Yeah. - And it's, and you were watching people leave all day. That was the other thing that was so sad. - A Friday night, you're just waving at everyone's wrapping and they're like, have a good weekend. You're like, you too, like, it's just the saddest goodbye. But at the same time, I felt like the days were so much shorter than when I had one line at the office. - Yeah. - Like the day flows by because it's just like, funny scene after funny scene. Entire departments who are there to help you do your job the best. - Yeah. - And that was like such a joy, I'm just so obvious to say this about being a star of your own show. But like, that was, it was what I was longing for and to assemble my own writing staff. - So many of whom, like, Lang Fisher, Tracy Wigfield. - Yes. - Thanks, Dave. - We're going to do a new show right now. Four seasons. - Yes, yeah. - And so to be able to work with all these people that made me better, inspired me. - Yeah. - And let's talk about our friend, Ike. - Sarah Holt, who was here and who you met on that show. - Yeah. - And Dave Stassen. - Those guys are, I mean, let's just, Ike is listening. So we should say something nice about him. - We should say something nice about him. - Look at us making sure that the white guy is taking care of. - Feel comfortable and seeing. - Look at us. - It's just because, you know, his personality is that, like, he would, he would do that for us. - He would. (audience clapping) (audience clapping) - The other thing is that I love that you've spoken about with many project is like, in many ways, it is a tribute to your mom. - Yeah. - And because your mom was a OBGYN. - Yes. - Doctor. - Doctor, yeah. - Sorry. - OBGYN doctor. - For Indian people, that's a huge distinction. - I know. - I was so sorry. - I didn't want to say no. - Okay, so she wasn't a doctor doctor though. She was a doctor, she was a woman doctor. - Clearly, she was, she was taking notes in the male doctor. - The male doctor would come in and say baby part. - Yeah. - No, but your character was kind of a tribute to her and your mom, can you speak a little bit about your mom? She spoke to you speak about her all the time and she's just talking about my mom. - So the character on the Mindy project, I mean, she couldn't have been more different than my mom's personality. But I loved the world of playing an OBGYN. My mom's had such a great personality because she spent her entire day with women, telling who told her the most personal things about their love lives and reproductive hopes and just everything and all their problems. It's such a personal relationship. And to have a world like that, it was like, honestly, some of it was laziness. I didn't have to research that much. I just understood what the office look like and what the nurses were like. And so, but so that was that. I also think it's nice for a lead character in a show, particularly when the character is so out there and sort of selfish and flawed to have such a self-less job, helping women. You were like inherently, she's a good person, even if all she says all day is that she wants to get married and get railed by hot men. I mean, you're like, okay, like, she's helping women through some of the hardest transitions of their lives. Do you feel like you could, after doing that show, do you feel like you could deliver a baby? Do I feel like I could deliver a baby? Do you think you could? I feel like I could affect the confidence that could really put a woman at ease. Oh, yeah. And I think this is like a real stupid actor over a conflict talk. I feel like a good fear. I think you could. I've had three kids. I feel like I was watching. Yeah, I feel like you could deliver a baby. Thank you. I think, I mean, I have a problem where I think I can do things that I wouldn't be able to do. What? What? Deliver a baby. I feel like I could, I don't want to, but I feel like I feel as a part of me, it's like I could at least be enthusiastic about like getting people to push. I think there's some parts that would break me out a little bit. Yeah. So in a lady back up. Yeah. We don't, we don't need to do that. Let us do it. We're going to get somebody to come in. I can talk. Finish it up. I just mean the delivery. Yeah. I don't think I could do a C-section. Like I have a, yeah. Oh, no. C-section. Forget it. No. I'm not going to do that. You know what? I take it back. We shouldn't do it. We shouldn't do it. We shouldn't be around anyone who is pregnant. Oh. And then before I move on to more TV stuff, I do want to talk about we had a really fun trip one time you and I where we went to can together for inside out. And it was like, I've never been before or since. I've never been back to cancer. - It was really glamorous. - And it was very glamorous. It was the first time I'd ever been on that kind of like international press tour, like on the steps of the. - Amy, I think about that press tour so much too. - I think about it a lot. - One, it was so hot and sweaty. - Yeah. - Very hot and sweaty. Like we were always like in the beating sun. - Yeah. - And like, but beautiful. - Yes. - Always like, I was sweating through my clothes constantly. And I remember this distinctly, and maybe this is offensive, that we would be doing like an international junket. And unlike an American junket, it would be like, the questions would be like, I don't know, maybe 'cause of, I don't know, culturally it was just a. - Rooter, let's just say it. - Why are you. - Yeah. - You are so fat, smiling, but your face is not nice to look at. - Your face is not nice. - Why do you think that people like to look at your face? Like in America, a fat, and smiling woman can be star? - We've read you can, you have your own sitcom, but you are fat? - Yes. - You are obviously hufflepuff, and yet you believe you're a griffin' girl. - You're so fat. - You play joy, but you are not in your 20s? - Yes. And you didn't smile at me when I was asking you a question. So I don't find you joyful at all. - And so, okay, remember, you know that Javier Bardem clip when he's on a junket that has gone viral, where someone's like, he was working with Penelope Cruz, and his European journalist is like, "So you work with your wife. You must be crazy to work with the woman like that you're married to. Most people would want to kill themselves if they had to do such a thing." And he's like, "I find that very offensive." (laughing) - And I was like, "Watch that." And I was like, "Oh, it's incredible." - I can never imagine sticking and having a spine in an international press junket and being like, "How dare you, sir?" - I was like, "Just laugh." - I mean, I feel, let me ask you, what are your generational pronouns? How do you identify? Are you a millennial? Do you identify as millennial? - Hey, this is a, this is a very sore topic for me, because for a while, I was considered a Xenial. - Okay. - Which was it, have you heard of the Xenial? - Xenial. - Xelennial? - Xelennial. - No, I don't, I'm, this is making you be a millennial. - This is making me be a millennial. But I was like, "Oh, thank God," because when I was growing up, when I was like in middle school, like the movie Singles was out. - Yeah. - And I was like, "That's, to me, Gen X." - That's Gen X. - You know, Ben Stiller. - Yes. - That's Gen X, right? - Yeah. - And then now, the Xenial went away. And now they're just like, people are just like, "You're Gen X." Like, I can never like, "Well, Gen X together." - That's not true. They're making themselves younger than they are. You have a lot of Gen X qualities. - I will say, and I love Gen X. - I love Gen X too. - But you have, but you're 10 years younger. So you might be like millennial. - To your point about pleasing, like getting somebody's hard to please, I realize I have that with Boomer Men. - Interesting. - I remember just a little bit like in their, like, mid 65. I'm like, you know? - It's a little like boss situation. - You're saying that me, it so resonates with me, 'cause I felt that way about Greg Daniels. - Greg and like Conan. - Yes. - And then obviously all the us and all people that were there when you were there, like I feel exactly the same way. But now I'm technically the same generation, which is breaking my heart. - Yeah, that's a little weird. - But I do feel that way. - Because they were the gatekeepers. - We didn't talk about Conan. You were, you did get that page job. - I was an intern at Conan. - Oh, intern. - So I didn't, when I was still in college, I applied to be an intern at Conan. - That's actually that job is what made me thought that I maybe would get the page job. - Yeah, got it. - Because those internships were considered hard to get. And that's where I first learned what comedy writers did. Although a variety show, comedy writer is such a different job than a sitcom, comedy writer. And I actually think the personalities of a variety show, comedy writer is very different than a sitcom guy. - Oh, how is it different? - I think that there's, well I think of one as a quintessentially New York job. Although of course there's variety shows and the West Coast and one is like an LA job. - Yeah. - I think they are both very funny, but there's like a more, this is not true, but this is the way I thought of it. Like there was more of like a cerebral darker energy to a New York variety show writers, right? Where it was like joke, joke, joke. How do we get the best jokes? Monologue sketches like it's gotta be like quick and funny and then you're done if you live or die by hard jokes. And then the sitcom writers, which is like story and let's think about the characters. And so as someone who wanted to be in the New York world, but was that was slam, the door slam shut in my face. I kind of came up in this other world. And so I always thought like, oh my God, that's so intimidating. That's why I guest wrote on SNL, right? Which is where I, I think that was the first time I met you. - Okay, I was trying to remember the first time we met. Was it when you were guest writing? - I was guest writing at 2005. - Yeah, yeah. And that was when I met you and Tina. And I remember this and I don't know why. I remember this story and I'm not proud of it. And I know why it would possibly come up with two women that I admire and just came up. I don't know, but we were somewhere and I was like, yeah, I just want to lose 30 pounds. And the two of you stopped and were like, what? That is too much weight. And I remember I was so happy for like three weeks after that I was like, wow, Amy and Tina don't think I'm a fat load. Like I was so, no, man, even in the odds. Like you guys are like, what are you crazy? But I was thinking like, why would I told that to them? That's so weird. - I would say because if we're to get real, it's because that's how women talk to each other. - Is that, I think it is. Like I think we all like weight watchers. - It was because at the time there was a conversation about weight watchers. - I think, you know, we were like, we just like everybody else were like constantly trying to figure out everybody's relationship to being on camera. - Yes. - Do you think that for better or for worse, what women do for each other and to each other is they talk about their bodies to each other? Like we are, we like, you know, it's one of the things I love so much and I'm sure you're the same way. Like I love about my female friends. I can really say like, I'm feeling this way and that way. And it's kind of how we like say hello. - No, I mean, I think to be able to be with two of my heroes and have them acknowledge because you could have easily been like, we don't ever think about it. We're naturally thin. - Do you know how to imagine? - Yeah. - People are like, I don't know what you're mean. I don't understand. - I just, it's, I just, it's whatever I want. - I mean, for you to take that, did that you weren't just like we are naturally then we eat whatever we want. You didn't, and so I think that that was a, I think a really, it was a kindness for you to acknowledge. Like, oh yeah, so I could, I could see that in my heroes. But it is really, it is really fascinating and nice that culture has changed so much. - It has, but it hasn't, it hasn't, right? 'Cause we're still asking people about their weight. We're still asking people about their bodies. I mean, I actually really try, I have a couple of like rules that I never say out loud on this podcast, but one of them is I try not to talk about people's bodies. 'Cause it's like, people's bodies are their own business. - If you have the male cast of off campus here. - Yeah. - I just want them to throw me against that bookshelf. - Yeah, and they flex and they'd be fine with it. I know it's a fine line. - And you can't, and you can't. - Yeah, you can't, but you're great. - It's good. - It's good that you can't. - Okay, but this is a good segue into the, 'cause you have to engage into what? - Into not suitable for work. - Okay, okay, yes, yes, what you can't do. - What you can't do. - Yeah, but I'm so surprised I was wondering, what is this a segue to? - But you're, you have a new show out on Hulu, not suitable for work. - Yes. - And it is, you've called it kind of the third in a trilogy. - I really try to get that I have a trilogy that I'm like Peter Jackson. - You're a mogul. You have a trilogy. - I have a trilogy, just like me. - You have it. - I mean, one of the things about being a mogul is you have to start talking like everything you did was like a perfect, you know? - Well, part of a master plan. - Exactly. - And got a master plan. - I have to embody that more. - Yeah, master plan. - That thing is not just like accidental. - No. - Not a serious moment. - Whatever's happening. - No, making it like on the spot. - This makes sense because this is the third in the installment. But you have made three TV shows never have I ever. - Sex as a college girl. - Sex as a college girl, thank you. And not suitable for workplace. All three are like, I mean, they're very, very different. But what would you say is a unifying theme in all of them? - I think I love writing for underdogs. - Yeah. - And ambitious people. And people with lots of big wants and needs, both like romantically and professionally. And who feel like they don't have access to it. And that's sort of I think the thing in common with all three of those shows. - Yeah, a lot of horniness. - Working on not suitable for work. I mean, this cast is, they're so funny. They're so good. And they were all, none of them are unknown. They'd all had like a lot of success. But I wouldn't necessarily say that they were like super, super well known yet. But Will Angus was in a very popular sketch troop. Ella Hunt was on that wonderful show. Dickinson, Avantika was in Mean Girls. But this is just a way to have them all together. And they're super funny. They're super appealing. And I loved working with them. - Avantika is who we spoke to today to get the question for you. - Really. - And Avantika is, so we did a, you know, we do the same at the beginning where we talk well behind our guests back. And I really wanted to speak to Avantika for a couple of reasons. One is. She is like, you know, you, you are the example of what she watched growing up. You were representation in real physical form, somebody who wrote their own parts, who created their own stuff for themselves, and who also, like you said, like enjoy, like you enjoy being entertained. Your shows are not homework. No, I think I'm not writing shows for like television studies professors. Yes. Not that I don't think that's an important job and things, but I want to do something that's like, when times are hard. That's right. You know, when like my mom was sick and we wanted to watch something, it's like we watched modern family. It was like, I want to watch something that's like legitimately so funny. Yes. Yeah, and I like seeing people fall in love and I love like great costumes and doing something in the city. I also love the office where it has not those qualities, but it's super funny. But I do know what you're saying and I take it as a compliment. And she spoke about being around you and like your curiosity and also just like your curiosity about other people's lives and young lives and like really like your support as a producer and as a person. And also, Mindy, just what I think is so impressive about you is you, you feel like you're working within the system and you're also still a person like the rest of us, I guess. So it's like you are this mogul who also is like just along for the ride, like the rest of us. Like it's very hard to do both of those things and I think you do it really, really well. Thank you. Oh my gosh. And she speaks about that. And it's funny. Her question is so cute. It was like, what is your ego? Like, but she was like, what are four things that Mindy, did I know I said that's too many things? That's so many things. I agree. Do you feel this way where if you see a movie you love or you listen to an album or you see a Broadway musical, you're kind of like, should I like try to write about a musical? Or should I like, I'll listen to an, I'll go to, I'll go, but which you're nailing. So now you should do the next thing. I feel you. I see something. I'm like, should I try that? And that's like, I think notoriously how bad art is formed right when people are due stuff that they're not equipped to do but are have this delusional feeling that they can. And I've done that many times. But you know what I'm really impressed by is like, I always think about Jordan Peele and Greta Gerwig and how, as does the rest of the world. But I love that Jordan came from sketch comedy. And with Greta coming from being an actress and like the muse of Noah Bomback and then mainly, well, I want to direct and then taking something like Barbie and making it like this great movie about feminism and so, and now doing the Narnia stuff. Like so I'm always really inspired by them. I think that's the thing as I'd love to be able to write and direct movies. Yes. Another thing and this is not creative but like, I feel like my feed on Instagram is just always about how fleeting art time with our children is. It's just like, it's just like frightening post after frightening post about how like you have 18 summers with these people like, I didn't know it was the last time I would pick him up. Exactly. It's like Jesus Christ. These haunting things about these wonderful children that I love and so I really want to be able to hang with them and be with them in a real way where they look back at it and they're like, how was mom able to do that? But then also do these other, be there for us so much at the time. And I know I'll fail. But like, I really want to try to be there. But my mom really set the bar. She was so busy like we missed Thanksgiving's because she was delivering a baby. She wasn't there for the school play. And I was the perfect match for her as a daughter because I just thought it was like glamorous. Yeah. And I was like, wow, mom's like really doing a lot. But I have three kids. I don't know that they're going to think maybe one of them will be that way and the other two won't. So I got to really, I got to really invest in being them. So that's the second thing. What else would I want to do? I don't want to hold public office. No. No. I don't want to adopt like seven kids. I love the people who do that. Yeah. I can't three is enough. Three is a lot. I don't think I want to like teach at a college. You don't know that. You don't know that. You don't rule that out. Think about this. Okay. I like this. Think about this future though. That you get to come in like I often think about, you know, like the next decade. Think about coming in like a beautiful sweater like dark meth, let's say, drive in at 10 o'clock in the morning, you have your coffee, you, you know, you create the door creaks open. And there's like 150 like kids staring at you and you start your class. Nobody gets interupt. You're done in an hour. You know the bad book about it, then you write a movie about it. That's what I'm saying. I think that that sounds, that does sound good. Doesn't that sound good? We don't have to grade papers. No papers. Nothing like that. Well, it'll be like real, but there'll be no paper. AI will be different. Yeah. There'll be no paper. I like that. Or I also like when they, you got to a certain age and then like TV shows just want like that kind of like decrepit, grand dom, oh, yeah, to come in. You just say a couple of lines and everyone's like laughing. They just like lift you onto a sea. Yeah. I want to get to the point where people are like, she looks good. She looks good. This has been so fun, Mindy. Has it been? Yeah. I'm so, I'm sorry. That's very any of your grams. Six of you. It is. Very any of your grams. No, I'm stressed. Tell me why. No, I just, I love this so much. I, I've been very entertained. Okay. I have previous episodes and I just, I'm just fast wording to my, to my nanny Jenny sitting on the sofa. Yeah. And hoping that she doesn't click away. No, she's going to have, I mean, she's going to be, she's going to be, she's going to be wrapped. Okay. And, and also my last question to you is like, what are you what? Because I know you are like your pop culture consumer. Yeah. What? Who is making you laugh these days? What, when you, when you want to like, you know, I know for me, it's hard for me to kind of watch comedy, like it's like, yeah, what, what do you watch to check out to now laugh, like feel like, is it a video? Is it TikTok? Is it a show? So is it? I'm not on TikTok for no real reason. It's not like a decision, but I think it's tied to some way, like productivity. Like I'm worried I'd be too into it. Damn, that's so true. But for me, the biggest thing that I'm into, I mean, I, I do like a lot of dramas and like your friend Emily Spivey, love murder. But I think for me, I loved the curse, is that, that's the right name, was the Nathan Fielder show? Yes. Really strange and really, like, talk about, and understand Fielder. And Nathan Fielder, who is like, I think for people, my age or woman, he's a real heart drop too. He's a millennial heart drop. Big time. And I'm happy for him. He's so funny and talented. Yes. With Emma Stone, I loved that show. Yes. Really good, weird show. Weird show. And then, I mean, it's honestly, like, it's like what don't I like? Like the most of the time I like stuff. Like, I like all the things that you would expect. Like, I love Abbott and I love Hawks and I like, um, all the dramas, like who doesn't like the pit. It's like, I like those things and I, that's like, I love it. It's such a delight to watch them and, um, and see people who are really good at their craft in doing things, um, yeah, you're able to enjoy still knowing, knowing how things work. It's kind of like in the very beginning and when we start talking about it, which is like, you know how hard it is to make something good. Totally. Um, Mindy Kaling, thank you for being here. Thank you for taking the red eye. Only for Amy Puller. Um, so happy you could do this. Thank you so much for doing it. Thank you, Amy. It was such a, it was such a good name. It was so good. Thanks everybody. Thank you so much, Mindy Kaling. Um, you're always so honest and forthcoming and funny and it was really great to have you. And you know, Mindy and I got into a lot of really interesting topics, including, um, being a working mother and deciding to just do the things you love and try to, as best you can, avoid the things that you hate. And I have a strong feeling about that. I feel like in, in motherhood, there's things that you like, you love, you feel neutral about and you really don't like to do. And if you can try to avoid the things that you really don't like to do, then, um, the rest, uh, you know, uh, the rest might come a little easier. So some people get stressed around, you know, bath time. Some people don't want to go to the park. Some moms, hey, taking their kids to get shots, um, I mean, who loves that? But you know what I mean? Either way, I would just say, give yourself a break. You're not supposed to love everything and it doesn't make you a bad mom if you don't. Try to offload anything that you really, really, really have a hard time handling and, um, don't ever feel guilty about it because, God, we just really beat ourselves up and enough's enough, you know, um, so I guess that's my polar plunge today. I don't know. I, I just, I'm thinking about all, all the ways in which we make it harder for ourselves and our harder on ourselves. Let's try to, um, take some lessons from this interview and do a better job this week. Do a better job of not doing a good job. Okay. Bye. You've been listening to Good Hang. The executive producers for this show are Bill Simmons, Jenna Weissberman and me Amy Poler. NLA is Anaris for PaperKite, production by Sam Green, Joel Lovell and Jenna Weissberman. Original music by Amy Miles.